From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Tue Dec 8 01:29:20 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA01724 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:29:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA19830 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:15:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from idrp.merit.edu (skh@idrp.merit.edu [198.108.60.89]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA19826; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:15:46 -0500 (EST) From: skh@merit.edu Received: (from skh@localhost) by idrp.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA04005; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:15:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:15:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199812080115.UAA04005@idrp.merit.edu> To: aaa-wg@merit.edu Subject: Test message for aaa working group Cc: skh@merit.edu Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 148 Lines: 10 Test message for aaa working group mail list at: aaa-wg@merit.edu. This list is Majordomo-ed at aaa-wg-request@merit.edu. thank-you, Sue Hares From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Tue Dec 8 16:27:59 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09856 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:27:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA08264 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:24:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from NOD.RESTON.MCI.NET (nod.Reston.mci.net [166.45.6.38]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA08260 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mci.net ([166.45.3.11]) by shoe.reston.mci.net (PMDF V5.2-29 #33823) with ESMTP id <01J53NVOQ94G8Y51Y3@shoe.reston.mci.net> for aaa-wg@merit.edu; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:24:00 EST Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 16:23:59 -0500 From: Paul Krumviede Subject: Re: Draft Document for the AAA Requirements To: AAA WG Reply-to: paul@mci.net Message-id: <366D98EF.F2E9653F@mci.net> Organization: MCI WorldCom MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <2.2.32.19981208210302.006a4344@acc.com> Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 433 Lines: 13 lets see if the new WG mail address works here... Koral Ilgun wrote: > It would also be useful to log failed authentication > attempts (with cause) and failed authorization attempts (with cause). > It is important to have a log of when and why a particular resource was not > granted to a particular requestor. This seems to be an implementation issue, unless you're suggesting that we need to invent a new way to do this. -paul From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Wed Dec 9 17:20:45 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA22115 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:20:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id RAA10613 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:18:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailsrv.acc.com (mailsrv.acc.com [129.192.64.128]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA10608 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:17:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from turkey (tig-98-20.acc.com [129.192.98.20]) by mailsrv.acc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA16769; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:18:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19981210011234.0069de1c@acc.com> X-Sender: koral@acc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 17:12:34 -0800 To: paul@mci.net From: Koral Ilgun Subject: Re: Draft Document for the AAA Requirements Cc: AAA WG Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 962 Lines: 28 If a certain SLA specifies the guarantee of a minimum resource availability, then rejecting access to a resource (and the reason of rejection) seems like a must-count event to me. Section 5.3.3 of AAA requirements suggests bean counting only for the "Resource usages that are admitted". I think of the rejection logs as important as accounting logs for authenticated sessions. Do you see one category as implementation issue but not the other one? Koral At 04:23 PM 12/8/98 -0500, Paul Krumviede wrote: >lets see if the new WG mail address works here... > >Koral Ilgun wrote: > >> It would also be useful to log failed authentication >> attempts (with cause) and failed authorization attempts (with cause). >> It is important to have a log of when and why a particular resource was not >> granted to a particular requestor. > >This seems to be an implementation issue, unless you're suggesting >that we need to invent a new way to do this. > >-paul > > From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Wed Dec 9 17:26:41 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA22176 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:26:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id RAA10784 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:26:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from NOD.RESTON.MCI.NET (nod.Reston.mci.net [166.45.6.38]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA10775 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:25:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mci.net ([166.45.3.11]) by shoe.reston.mci.net (PMDF V5.2-29 #33823) with ESMTP id <01J554C3ND708ZER8C@shoe.reston.mci.net> for aaa-wg@merit.edu; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:25:23 EST Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 17:25:21 -0500 From: Paul Krumviede Subject: Re: Draft Document for the AAA Requirements To: AAA WG Reply-to: paul@mci.net Message-id: <366EF8D1.1CCCBFF@mci.net> Organization: MCI WorldCom MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <2.2.32.19981210011234.0069de1c@acc.com> Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1523 Lines: 40 Koral Ilgun wrote: > > If a certain SLA specifies the guarantee of a minimum resource > availability, then rejecting access to a resource (and the reason > of rejection) seems like a must-count event to me. > Section 5.3.3 of AAA requirements suggests bean > counting only for the "Resource usages that are admitted". > I think of the rejection logs as important as accounting logs for > authenticated sessions. > Do you see one category as implementation issue but not the other one? Well, I think of accounting as something that I need for billing, while failures I might want for other reasons. So the latter may be logged, but I guess I think of logging as using other facilities than an AAA protocol. For one thing, authentication failures may be reported by the authentication server, while accounting data may come from a end-device, so the data transport requirements are different. Things like traffic engineering may depend on both the accounting data and other sources. -paul > At 04:23 PM 12/8/98 -0500, Paul Krumviede wrote: > >lets see if the new WG mail address works here... > > > >Koral Ilgun wrote: > > > >> It would also be useful to log failed authentication > >> attempts (with cause) and failed authorization attempts (with cause). > >> It is important to have a log of when and why a particular resource was not > >> granted to a particular requestor. > > > >This seems to be an implementation issue, unless you're suggesting > >that we need to invent a new way to do this. > > > >-paul > > > > From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Wed Dec 9 17:56:20 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA22427 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:56:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id RAA11574 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from harlequin.MorningStar.Com (harlequin.MorningStar.Com [137.175.80.154]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA11559 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:55:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from edguer@localhost) by harlequin.MorningStar.Com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id RAA12364; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:55:19 -0500 (EST) From: Aydin Edguer Message-Id: <199812092255.RAA12364@harlequin.MorningStar.Com> Subject: Re: Draft Document for the AAA Requirements To: aaa-wg@merit.edu Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:55:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: paul@mci.net In-Reply-To: <366EF8D1.1CCCBFF@mci.net> from "Paul Krumviede" at Dec 9, 98 05:25:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2688 Lines: 53 > Well, I think of accounting as something that I need for billing, Okay. Then, as pointed out previously, we need to come up with some new terms. Some of us are coming from other backgrounds and we see accounting as a broader issue. Billing data does not *have* to be real-time, although some usages may require it. Example - when instead of adding up a bill, you are debiting an account and do not want the usage to exceed the balance. Much of the same data that is used for billing purposes is useful to operation management and resource management. Rather than trying to divorce billing from operations and resources, it seems like it would be useful to list the individual needs of these different "accounting" usages and try to meet all their needs. > while failures I might want for other reasons. So the latter may > be logged, but I guess I think of logging as using other facilities > than an AAA protocol. For one thing, authentication failures may > be reported by the authentication server, while accounting data > may come from a end-device, so the data transport requirements > are different. When doing roaming, it can be important for proper logging that the method used to provide information to other entities use the same or similar mechanisms as those used for authentication, authorization, and accounting. Instead of just "logging", think of it as "event notification" or "feedback". Once a server has authorized service, it may want to be notified that the service has been successfully started or has failed. This is an issue that comes up in the remote access (RADIUS) world. For example - just because you have authenticated a user and returned authorization information to start a PPP connection and assign a given IP address drawn from a central pool of addresses, does not mean that the IPCP negotations were able to complete and the service begin. In order for the server to properly track the address pool usage, a positive (or negative) acknowledgement is necessary. This could be thought of as authorization information (authorization succeeded) or billing information (begin subtracting US$0.10 per minute) or event notification (service began) or just logging (authorization failed) depending upon your environment. It can also have very different requirements for who is notified (the address pool server, the billing server, the resource server, the operations monitor). IMHO, we must not try to shuffle this off and just say "oh, that is just logging" or "SNMP will handle that". These *may* turn out to be true, but it is not apparent to me (or perhaps others in this group) that this can be removed from the AAA world so easily. From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Wed Dec 9 19:52:09 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA23983 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:52:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id TAA14960 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:50:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from NOD.RESTON.MCI.NET (nod.Reston.mci.net [166.45.6.38]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA14955 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:49:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mci.net ([166.45.3.11]) by shoe.reston.mci.net (PMDF V5.2-29 #33823) with ESMTP id <01J559CFLB2S8Y527U@shoe.reston.mci.net> for aaa-wg@merit.edu; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:49:12 EST Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 19:49:10 -0500 From: Paul Krumviede Subject: Re: Draft Document for the AAA Requirements To: aaa-wg@merit.edu Reply-to: paul@mci.net Message-id: <366F1A86.3B70A3AA@mci.net> Organization: MCI WorldCom MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <199812092255.RAA12364@harlequin.MorningStar.Com> Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 3410 Lines: 76 Aydin Edguer wrote: > > > Well, I think of accounting as something that I need for billing, > > Okay. Then, as pointed out previously, we need to come up with > some new terms. Some of us are coming from other backgrounds and > we see accounting as a broader issue. OK. > Billing data does not *have* to be real-time, although some usages > may require it. Example - when instead of adding up a bill, you > are debiting an account and do not want the usage to exceed the > balance. I'd argue that in general, billing data does not need to be real-time, and many other uses of "accounting" data don't need to be real-time either. > Much of the same data that is used for billing purposes is useful > to operation management and resource management. Rather than trying > to divorce billing from operations and resources, it seems like it > would be useful to list the individual needs of these different > "accounting" usages and try to meet all their needs. Sure. > > while failures I might want for other reasons. So the latter may > > be logged, but I guess I think of logging as using other facilities > > than an AAA protocol. For one thing, authentication failures may > > be reported by the authentication server, while accounting data > > may come from a end-device, so the data transport requirements > > are different. > > When doing roaming, it can be important for proper logging that the > method used to provide information to other entities use the same or > similar mechanisms as those used for authentication, authorization, > and accounting. Maybe. It is important that it it use an appropriate mechanism, but maybe multiple simple mechanisms would be better than one very complicated mechanism. > Instead of just "logging", think of it as "event notification" or > "feedback". Once a server has authorized service, it may want to > be notified that the service has been successfully started or has > failed. > > This is an issue that comes up in the remote access (RADIUS) world. > For example - just because you have authenticated a user and returned > authorization information to start a PPP connection and assign a given > IP address drawn from a central pool of addresses, does not mean > that the IPCP negotations were able to complete and the service begin. > > In order for the server to properly track the address pool usage, > a positive (or negative) acknowledgement is necessary. This could > be thought of as authorization information (authorization succeeded) > or billing information (begin subtracting US$0.10 per minute) or event > notification (service began) or just logging (authorization failed) > depending upon your environment. It can also have very different > requirements for who is notified (the address pool server, the billing > server, the resource server, the operations monitor). We've run a service that doesn't require this. It did do address assignment, but didn't need such acknowledgement. > IMHO, we must not try to shuffle this off and just say "oh, that is just > logging" or "SNMP will handle that". These *may* turn out to be true, > but it is not apparent to me (or perhaps others in this group) that this > can be removed from the AAA world so easily. In the extreme, this could be read as saying we'll invent our own networking protocol rather than using IP. Lets see what components and/or protocols we can reuse. -paul From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Wed Dec 9 20:17:55 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA24825 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:17:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA15442 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:17:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from harlequin.MorningStar.Com (harlequin.MorningStar.Com [137.175.80.154]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA15438 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:17:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from edguer@localhost) by harlequin.MorningStar.Com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA12417 for aaa-wg@merit.edu; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:16:55 -0500 (EST) From: Aydin Edguer Message-Id: <199812100116.UAA12417@harlequin.MorningStar.Com> Subject: Re: Draft Document for the AAA Requirements To: aaa-wg@merit.edu Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 20:16:53 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <366F1A86.3B70A3AA@mci.net> from "Paul Krumviede" at Dec 9, 98 07:49:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1587 Lines: 28 > > This is an issue that comes up in the remote access (RADIUS) world. > > For example - just because you have authenticated a user and returned > > authorization information to start a PPP connection and assign a given > > IP address drawn from a central pool of addresses, does not mean > > that the IPCP negotations were able to complete and the service begin. > > > > In order for the server to properly track the address pool usage, > > a positive (or negative) acknowledgement is necessary. > > We've run a service that doesn't require this. It did do address > assignment, but didn't need such acknowledgement. Okay, can you be explicit on how you solved the problem of tracking the state of addresses from the pool? How did you prevent an address from being improperly marked as being allocated, when the authentication had succeeded but the authorization failed? How did you avoid having a nack and still have it work correctly? This is a general problem that IMHO this AAA protocol must solve, so if you have a solution, I think it would be useful to put it on the table. Basically the only methods I am aware of from the [non-standard supported] remote access field are (a) use a short-term lease and require timely delivery of accounting information to the server [which is a form of ack / nack] or (b) use a lease and follow up with SNMP (which does *not* work in a roaming situation and does *not* work well in a multivendor environment) [and is a form of ack] or (c) use a separate allocate and release message for the address [which is an explicit ack / nack]. From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Thu Dec 10 00:47:31 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA03624 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:47:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id AAA20565 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:46:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from NOD.RESTON.MCI.NET (nod.Reston.mci.net [166.45.6.38]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA20561 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:46:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mci.net ([166.45.3.11]) by shoe.reston.mci.net (PMDF V5.2-29 #33823) with ESMTP id <01J55JPQJ10O8ZERD8@shoe.reston.mci.net> for aaa-wg@merit.edu; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:46:15 EST Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:46:14 -0500 From: Paul Krumviede Subject: Re: Draft Document for the AAA Requirements To: Aydin Edguer Cc: aaa-wg@merit.edu Reply-to: paul@mci.net Message-id: <366F6026.5695DD6F@mci.net> Organization: MCI WorldCom MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <199812100116.UAA12417@harlequin.MorningStar.Com> Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2527 Lines: 52 While I can describe what we did (and the environment, etc.) I'm not sure this is appropriate for the list. Feedback welcomed... A few comments below; gory detail suppressed. Aydin Edguer wrote: > > > > This is an issue that comes up in the remote access (RADIUS) world. > > > For example - just because you have authenticated a user and returned > > > authorization information to start a PPP connection and assign a given > > > IP address drawn from a central pool of addresses, does not mean > > > that the IPCP negotations were able to complete and the service begin. > > > > > > In order for the server to properly track the address pool usage, > > > a positive (or negative) acknowledgement is necessary. > > > > We've run a service that doesn't require this. It did do address > > assignment, but didn't need such acknowledgement. > > Okay, can you be explicit on how you solved the problem of tracking the > state of addresses from the pool? How did you prevent an address from > being improperly marked as being allocated, when the authentication had > succeeded but the authorization failed? How did you avoid having a nack > and still have it work correctly? I could align address assignment with a general addressing plan for my sites, and deterministically assign an address based on the NAS and port number. I trust the NAS to not lie about port numbers. I don't need an ack, and I don't need to know when the call went away to free an address. I'll admit that for some services a more sophisticated scheme may be necessary (although see below). > This is a general problem that IMHO this AAA protocol must solve, so if > you have a solution, I think it would be useful to put it on the table. I can believe that something like this would be needed for some services. > Basically the only methods I am aware of from the [non-standard supported] > remote access field are (a) use a short-term lease and require timely > delivery of accounting information to the server [which is a form of > ack / nack] or (b) use a lease and follow up with SNMP (which does *not* > work in a roaming situation and does *not* work well in a multivendor > environment) [and is a form of ack] or (c) use a separate allocate and > release message for the address [which is an explicit ack / nack]. Leases with (server-side) expiration and refreshes don't seem like an ack/nack mechanism to me. (Mike O'Dell suggested this some time ago; I don't claim originality). At some level this seems like a viable approach. -paul From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Fri Dec 11 05:52:32 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA01133 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 05:52:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA23622 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 05:48:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA23618 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 05:48:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from hubbub.cisco.com (mailgate-sj-1.cisco.com [198.92.30.31]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA16783 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 02:49:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by hubbub.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id CAA17631 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 02:47:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [192.31.7.90]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA16778 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 02:49:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id CAA05140 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 02:47:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com(166.37.172.49) by proxy3.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma005137; Fri, 11 Dec 98 10:47:49 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from omta3.mcit.com (omta3.mcit.com [166.37.204.5]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id FAA21494; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 05:46:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from sinnreich2 ([204.189.237.193]) by omta3.mcit.com (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19981211104652.PZZS4921@sinnreich2>; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:46:52 -0600 From: "Henry Sinnreich" To: , "Brian Lloyd" , "Henry Sinnreich" Cc: "Henning Schulzrinne" , "Mark Handley" , Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 05:46:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 1892 Lines: 58 Path Calhoun and Paul Krumviede have pointed out that there is no duplication with the trade WG so we can leave this to rest. Still there is an eerie resemblance in many diagrams from the AAA work with SIP, trade and others. I wonder if this should not be a topic for the Internet research group? Comments? Thanks, Henry > -----Original Message----- > From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:henry.sinnreich@mci.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:52 AM > To: Brian Lloyd; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com > Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com > Subject: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting > > > Members of this group may want to first look at the work of the > "trade" WG - > today at 13:00, and certainly read the documents > > 1. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-http-00.txt > Summary > Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement > > > 2. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-v1.0-protocol-02.txt > Summary > Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol - IOTP Version 1.0 > > so as to avoid duplication or simply missing out on how the financial > community handles processes that pertain to accounting, at the least. I > believe most AAA functions mirror at a lower level what the IOPT > people may > already have solved. Would be interested if folks on this list would point > out where AAA and IOTP have to be different or what the IOPT > folks may have > missed that the AAA people know better. > > I don't have unfortunately the mailing list for "trade", so please include > David Burdet in this discussion. > > Thanks, Henry > > Henry Sinnreich > MCI WorldCom 1916/041 > 400 International Parkway > 2A313 - 1916/041 > Richardson, Texas 75081 > Phone: (972)729-4271 > Fax: (972)729-3034 > for short messages/paging to PIN 1632988 use > 1-888-MCI-2WAY, or > http://www.mci.com/connections/interact/sendpage/sendpage.shtml > > From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Tue Dec 15 20:50:54 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA02054 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:50:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA18727 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:48:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from sol.extremenetworks.com (extremenetworks.com [207.94.36.2] (may be forged)) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA18723 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:48:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by SOL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:48:38 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andrew Smith To: aaa-wg@merit.edu Subject: RE: Test message for aaa working group Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:48:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Does someone have a pointer to the WG charter/goals/milestones etc.? It's not yet on the IETF web site. Thanks, Andrew > -----Original Message----- > From: skh@merit.edu [mailto:skh@merit.edu] > Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 5:16 PM > To: aaa-wg@merit.edu > Cc: skh@merit.edu > Subject: Test message for aaa working group > > > Test message for aaa working group mail list at: > > aaa-wg@merit.edu. > > This list is Majordomo-ed at aaa-wg-request@merit.edu. > > thank-you, > > Sue Hares > From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Wed Dec 16 12:03:17 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12401 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:03:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA28602 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:58:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28594 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:58:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from hubbub.cisco.com (mailgate-sj-1.cisco.com [198.92.30.31]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA14042 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:59:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com [171.68.224.215]) by hubbub.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id IAA26935 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [192.31.7.89]) by sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27725 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:19:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA10386 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:58:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.sun.com(192.9.25.1) by proxy2.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma010362; Wed, 16 Dec 98 16:57:58 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail3 [129.144.170.5]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id IAA18973; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:47:29 -0800 Received: from hsmpka.eng.sun.com (hsmpka.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.91.47]) by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) with SMTP id IAA15849; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:47:28 -0800 Received: from hsmpka.eng.sun.com by hsmpka.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA29322; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:47:04 -0800 From: Pat.Calhoun@eng.sun.com (Patrice Calhoun) Message-Id: <199812161647.IAA29322@hsmpka.eng.sun.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:39:33 -0800 To: "Henry Sinnreich" , "Henry Sinnreich" , "Brian Lloyd" , Cc: , "Mark Handley" , "Henning Schulzrinne" Reply-To: Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting X-Mailer: Sun NetMail 2.2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk >Path Calhoun and Paul Krumviede have pointed out that there is no >duplication with the trade WG so we can leave this to rest. Still there is >an eerie resemblance in many diagrams from the AAA work with SIP, trade and >others. I wonder if this should not be a topic for the Internet research >group? I don't think so. I think that the problem is clear enough for the AAA WG to address. There really isn't that much of a resemblance, essentially what you are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own applications, instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. PatC > >Comments? > >Thanks, Henry > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:henry.sinnreich@mci.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:52 AM >> To: Brian Lloyd; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com >> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com >> Subject: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >> >> >> Members of this group may want to first look at the work of the >> "trade" WG - >> today at 13:00, and certainly read the documents >> >> 1. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-http-00.txt >> Summary >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement >> >> >> 2. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-v1.0-protocol-02.txt >> Summary >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol - IOTP Version 1.0 >> >> so as to avoid duplication or simply missing out on how the financial >> community handles processes that pertain to accounting, at the least. I >> believe most AAA functions mirror at a lower level what the IOPT >> people may >> already have solved. Would be interested if folks on this list would point >> out where AAA and IOTP have to be different or what the IOPT >> folks may have >> missed that the AAA people know better. >> >> I don't have unfortunately the mailing list for "trade", so please include >> David Burdet in this discussion. >> >> Thanks, Henry >> >> Henry Sinnreich >> MCI WorldCom 1916/041 >> 400 International Parkway >> 2A313 - 1916/041 >> Richardson, Texas 75081 >> Phone: (972)729-4271 >> Fax: (972)729-3034 >> for short messages/paging to PIN 1632988 use >> 1-888-MCI-2WAY, or >> http://www.mci.com/connections/interact/sendpage/sendpage.shtml >> >> > From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Thu Dec 17 08:14:56 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA22893 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:14:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA14219 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:11:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA14212 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:11:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from beasley.cisco.com (autorespond.cisco.com [171.69.2.135]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA07733 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com [171.68.224.215]) by beasley.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id FAA27024 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [192.31.7.89]) by sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA06288 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:32:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id FAA01995 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:10:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com(166.37.204.49) by proxy2.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma001986; Thu, 17 Dec 98 13:10:33 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from omss5.mcit.com (omss5-fddi.mcit.com [166.37.204.27]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id HAA32640; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:09:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from sinnreich2 ([166.44.130.195]) by omss5.mcit.com (InterMail v03.02.05 118 120) with SMTP id <19981217130911.FTSO18202@[166.44.130.195]>; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:09:11 -0600 From: "Henry Sinnreich" To: , "Brian Lloyd" , Cc: , "Mark Handley" , "Henning Schulzrinne" Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:08:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199812161647.IAA29322@hsmpka.eng.sun.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Pat writes: > essentially what you > are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own applications, > instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. What would be the process to coordinate the various WG's and approaches? In what forum or WG? Any IESG member on this list? Thanks, Henry > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrice Calhoun [mailto:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 11:40 AM > To: Henry Sinnreich; Henry Sinnreich; Brian Lloyd; > ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com > Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com; Mark Handley; Henning Schulzrinne > Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting > > > > >Path Calhoun and Paul Krumviede have pointed out that there is no > >duplication with the trade WG so we can leave this to rest. > Still there is > >an eerie resemblance in many diagrams from the AAA work with > SIP, trade and > >others. I wonder if this should not be a topic for the Internet research > >group? > > I don't think so. I think that the problem is clear enough for > the AAA WG to > address. There really isn't that much of a resemblance, > essentially what you > are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own applications, > instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. > > PatC > > > >Comments? > > > >Thanks, Henry > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:henry.sinnreich@mci.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:52 AM > >> To: Brian Lloyd; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com > >> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com > >> Subject: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting > >> > >> > >> Members of this group may want to first look at the work of the > >> "trade" WG - > >> today at 13:00, and certainly read the documents > >> > >> 1. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-http-00.txt > >> Summary > >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement > >> > >> > >> 2. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-v1.0-protocol-02.txt > >> Summary > >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol - IOTP Version 1.0 > >> > >> so as to avoid duplication or simply missing out on how the financial > >> community handles processes that pertain to accounting, at the least. I > >> believe most AAA functions mirror at a lower level what the IOPT > >> people may > >> already have solved. Would be interested if folks on this list > would point > >> out where AAA and IOTP have to be different or what the IOPT > >> folks may have > >> missed that the AAA people know better. > >> > >> I don't have unfortunately the mailing list for "trade", so > please include > >> David Burdet in this discussion. > >> > >> Thanks, Henry > >> > >> Henry Sinnreich > >> MCI WorldCom 1916/041 > >> 400 International Parkway > >> 2A313 - 1916/041 > >> Richardson, Texas 75081 > >> Phone: (972)729-4271 > >> Fax: (972)729-3034 > >> for short messages/paging to PIN 1632988 use > >> 1-888-MCI-2WAY, or > >> http://www.mci.com/connections/interact/sendpage/sendpage.shtml > >> > >> > > > > From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Thu Dec 17 10:33:24 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25610 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:33:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA16377 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:32:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com [171.68.224.215]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16372 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:32:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from beasley.cisco.com (autorespond.cisco.com [171.69.2.135]) by sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA19722 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com [171.68.224.215]) by beasley.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id HAA29488 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:31:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [192.31.7.90]) by sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA19714 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:53:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id HAA26618 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:31:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.sun.com(192.9.25.1) by proxy3.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026597; Thu, 17 Dec 98 15:31:45 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail2 [129.146.1.25]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id HAA17286; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:18:31 -0800 Received: from hsmpka.eng.sun.com (hsmpka.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.105.47]) by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) with SMTP id HAA26624; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:18:28 -0800 Received: from hsmpka.eng.sun.com by hsmpka.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA15225; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:18:11 -0800 From: Pat.Calhoun@eng.sun.com (Patrice Calhoun) Message-Id: <199812171518.HAA15225@hsmpka.eng.sun.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:17:19 -0800 To: "Henry Sinnreich" , , "Brian Lloyd" , Cc: "Henning Schulzrinne" , "Mark Handley" , Reply-To: Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting X-Mailer: Sun NetMail 2.2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk >Pat writes: >> essentially what you >> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own applications, >> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. > >What would be the process to coordinate the various WG's and approaches? >In what forum or WG? I believe that the AAA's goal is the correct approach. create a base protocol with a set of guidelines, and then let the other various WGs run with it. Perhaps have someone from the AAA WG oversee the work in other WGs to ensure that there is some consistency. > >Any IESG member on this list? I would hope so. At the very least Fred should be on this list. PatC > >Thanks, Henry > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Patrice Calhoun [mailto:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 11:40 AM >> To: Henry Sinnreich; Henry Sinnreich; Brian Lloyd; >> ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com >> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com; Mark Handley; Henning Schulzrinne >> Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >> >> >> >> >Path Calhoun and Paul Krumviede have pointed out that there is no >> >duplication with the trade WG so we can leave this to rest. >> Still there is >> >an eerie resemblance in many diagrams from the AAA work with >> SIP, trade and >> >others. I wonder if this should not be a topic for the Internet research >> >group? >> >> I don't think so. I think that the problem is clear enough for >> the AAA WG to >> address. There really isn't that much of a resemblance, >> essentially what you >> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own applications, >> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. >> >> PatC >> > >> >Comments? >> > >> >Thanks, Henry >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:henry.sinnreich@mci.com] >> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:52 AM >> >> To: Brian Lloyd; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com >> >> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com >> >> Subject: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >> >> >> >> >> >> Members of this group may want to first look at the work of the >> >> "trade" WG - >> >> today at 13:00, and certainly read the documents >> >> >> >> 1. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-http-00.txt >> >> Summary >> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement >> >> >> >> >> >> 2. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-v1.0-protocol-02.txt >> >> Summary >> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol - IOTP Version 1.0 >> >> >> >> so as to avoid duplication or simply missing out on how the financial >> >> community handles processes that pertain to accounting, at the least. I >> >> believe most AAA functions mirror at a lower level what the IOPT >> >> people may >> >> already have solved. Would be interested if folks on this list >> would point >> >> out where AAA and IOTP have to be different or what the IOPT >> >> folks may have >> >> missed that the AAA people know better. >> >> >> >> I don't have unfortunately the mailing list for "trade", so >> please include >> >> David Burdet in this discussion. >> >> >> >> Thanks, Henry >> >> >> >> Henry Sinnreich >> >> MCI WorldCom 1916/041 >> >> 400 International Parkway >> >> 2A313 - 1916/041 >> >> Richardson, Texas 75081 >> >> Phone: (972)729-4271 >> >> Fax: (972)729-3034 >> >> for short messages/paging to PIN 1632988 use >> >> 1-888-MCI-2WAY, or >> >> http://www.mci.com/connections/interact/sendpage/sendpage.shtml >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Fri Dec 18 11:20:26 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09502 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:20:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA05257 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA05246 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:15:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from bubbuh.cisco.com (bubbuh.cisco.com [198.92.30.35]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA01195 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:16:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by bubbuh.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id IAA19261 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [192.31.7.89]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA01177 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:16:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA23738 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mondex1fd.mondex.com(62.172.111.130) by proxy2.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023695; Fri, 18 Dec 98 16:15:11 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from mondex1fd.mondex.com [62.172.111.130] (HELO localhost) by mondex1fd.mondex.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0J/2.0J BL25J listener) id 0000_0050_367a_7e58_553c; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:10:00 +0000 Message-ID: From: David Burdett To: "'Henry Sinnreich'" , "'ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com'" , "'Brian Lloyd'" , "'Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM'" Cc: "'Henning Schulzrinne'" , "'Mark Handley'" Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:12:36 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Can someone point me in the direction of where I can get a copy of the authentication protocol that I *think* your'e developing. Thanks David Burdett >---------- >From: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM[SMTP:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >Reply To: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM >Sent: 17 December 1998 07:17 >To: Henry Sinnreich; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com; Brian Lloyd; >Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM >Cc: David Burdett; Henning Schulzrinne; Mark Handley >Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting > > >>Pat writes: >>> essentially what you >>> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own applications, >>> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. >> >>What would be the process to coordinate the various WG's and approaches? >>In what forum or WG? > >I believe that the AAA's goal is the correct approach. create a base protocol >with a set of guidelines, and then let the other various WGs run with it. >Perhaps have someone from the AAA WG oversee the work in other WGs to ensure >that there is some consistency. > >> >>Any IESG member on this list? > >I would hope so. At the very least Fred should be on this list. > >PatC >> >>Thanks, Henry >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Patrice Calhoun [mailto:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 11:40 AM >>> To: Henry Sinnreich; Henry Sinnreich; Brian Lloyd; >>> ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com >>> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com; Mark Handley; Henning Schulzrinne >>> Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >>> >>> >>> >>> >Path Calhoun and Paul Krumviede have pointed out that there is no >>> >duplication with the trade WG so we can leave this to rest. >>> Still there is >>> >an eerie resemblance in many diagrams from the AAA work with >>> SIP, trade and >>> >others. I wonder if this should not be a topic for the Internet research >>> >group? >>> >>> I don't think so. I think that the problem is clear enough for >>> the AAA WG to >>> address. There really isn't that much of a resemblance, >>> essentially what you >>> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own applications, >>> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. >>> >>> PatC >>> > >>> >Comments? >>> > >>> >Thanks, Henry >>> > >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:henry.sinnreich@mci.com] >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:52 AM >>> >> To: Brian Lloyd; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com >>> >> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com >>> >> Subject: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Members of this group may want to first look at the work of the >>> >> "trade" WG - >>> >> today at 13:00, and certainly read the documents >>> >> >>> >> 1. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-http-00.txt >>> >> Summary >>> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> 2. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-v1.0-protocol-02.txt >>> >> Summary >>> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol - IOTP Version 1.0 >>> >> >>> >> so as to avoid duplication or simply missing out on how the financial >>> >> community handles processes that pertain to accounting, at the least. I >>> >> believe most AAA functions mirror at a lower level what the IOPT >>> >> people may >>> >> already have solved. Would be interested if folks on this list >>> would point >>> >> out where AAA and IOTP have to be different or what the IOPT >>> >> folks may have >>> >> missed that the AAA people know better. >>> >> >>> >> I don't have unfortunately the mailing list for "trade", so >>> please include >>> >> David Burdet in this discussion. >>> >> >>> >> Thanks, Henry >>> >> >>> >> Henry Sinnreich >>> >> MCI WorldCom 1916/041 >>> >> 400 International Parkway >>> >> 2A313 - 1916/041 >>> >> Richardson, Texas 75081 >>> >> Phone: (972)729-4271 >>> >> Fax: (972)729-3034 >>> >> for short messages/paging to PIN 1632988 use >>> >> 1-888-MCI-2WAY, or >>> >> http://www.mci.com/connections/interact/sendpage/sendpage.shtml >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> >>> >> > > > From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Fri Dec 18 11:37:24 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09628 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:37:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA05821 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:36:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA05817 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:36:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from hubbub.cisco.com (mailgate-sj-1.cisco.com [198.92.30.31]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04588 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:37:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by hubbub.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id IAA03047 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [192.31.7.89]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04577 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:37:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA28449 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.sun.com(192.9.25.1) by proxy2.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028446; Fri, 18 Dec 98 16:35:49 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (engmail3 [129.144.170.5]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id IAA00615; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:24:04 -0800 Received: from hsmpka.eng.sun.com (hsmpka.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.124.47]) by Eng.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) with SMTP id IAA05890; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:24:01 -0800 Received: from hsmpka.eng.sun.com by hsmpka.eng.sun.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA10648; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:23:42 -0800 From: Pat.Calhoun@eng.sun.com (Patrice Calhoun) Message-Id: <199812181623.IAA10648@hsmpka.eng.sun.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:22:42 -0800 To: "David Burdett" , "'Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM'" , "'Brian Lloyd'" , "'ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com'" , "'Henry Sinnreich'" Cc: "'Mark Handley'" , "'Henning Schulzrinne'" Reply-To: Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting X-Mailer: Sun NetMail 2.2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk >Can someone point me in the direction of where I can get a copy of the >authentication protocol that I *think* your'e developing. We are not developing any authentication protocols. We are developing a mechanism that allows the said authentication protocol to be carried within a AAA protocol. The two authentication protocols that I would look at would be EAP (RFC2284) and SASL (RFC2222). However, other applications, such as Mobile IP may have their own authentication mechanism which must be folded within the AAA framework. PatC > >Thanks > >David Burdett > >>---------- >>From: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM[SMTP:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >>Reply To: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM >>Sent: 17 December 1998 07:17 >>To: Henry Sinnreich; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com; Brian Lloyd; >>Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM >>Cc: David Burdett; Henning Schulzrinne; Mark Handley >>Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >> >> >>>Pat writes: >>>> essentially what you >>>> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own applications, >>>> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. >>> >>>What would be the process to coordinate the various WG's and approaches? >>>In what forum or WG? >> >>I believe that the AAA's goal is the correct approach. create a base protocol >>with a set of guidelines, and then let the other various WGs run with it. >>Perhaps have someone from the AAA WG oversee the work in other WGs to ensure >>that there is some consistency. >> >>> >>>Any IESG member on this list? >> >>I would hope so. At the very least Fred should be on this list. >> >>PatC >>> >>>Thanks, Henry >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Patrice Calhoun [mailto:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 11:40 AM >>>> To: Henry Sinnreich; Henry Sinnreich; Brian Lloyd; >>>> ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com >>>> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com; Mark Handley; Henning Schulzrinne >>>> Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >Path Calhoun and Paul Krumviede have pointed out that there is no >>>> >duplication with the trade WG so we can leave this to rest. >>>> Still there is >>>> >an eerie resemblance in many diagrams from the AAA work with >>>> SIP, trade and >>>> >others. I wonder if this should not be a topic for the Internet research >>>> >group? >>>> >>>> I don't think so. I think that the problem is clear enough for >>>> the AAA WG to >>>> address. There really isn't that much of a resemblance, >>>> essentially what you >>>> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own applications, >>>> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. >>>> >>>> PatC >>>> > >>>> >Comments? >>>> > >>>> >Thanks, Henry >>>> > >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:henry.sinnreich@mci.com] >>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:52 AM >>>> >> To: Brian Lloyd; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com >>>> >> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com >>>> >> Subject: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Members of this group may want to first look at the work of the >>>> >> "trade" WG - >>>> >> today at 13:00, and certainly read the documents >>>> >> >>>> >> 1. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-http-00.txt >>>> >> Summary >>>> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> 2. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-v1.0-protocol-02.txt >>>> >> Summary >>>> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol - IOTP Version 1.0 >>>> >> >>>> >> so as to avoid duplication or simply missing out on how the financial >>>> >> community handles processes that pertain to accounting, at the least. I >>>> >> believe most AAA functions mirror at a lower level what the IOPT >>>> >> people may >>>> >> already have solved. Would be interested if folks on this list >>>> would point >>>> >> out where AAA and IOTP have to be different or what the IOPT >>>> >> folks may have >>>> >> missed that the AAA people know better. >>>> >> >>>> >> I don't have unfortunately the mailing list for "trade", so >>>> please include >>>> >> David Burdet in this discussion. >>>> >> >>>> >> Thanks, Henry >>>> >> >>>> >> Henry Sinnreich >>>> >> MCI WorldCom 1916/041 >>>> >> 400 International Parkway >>>> >> 2A313 - 1916/041 >>>> >> Richardson, Texas 75081 >>>> >> Phone: (972)729-4271 >>>> >> Fax: (972)729-3034 >>>> >> for short messages/paging to PIN 1632988 use >>>> >> 1-888-MCI-2WAY, or >>>> >> http://www.mci.com/connections/interact/sendpage/sendpage.shtml >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Fri Dec 18 20:59:08 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA14671 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:59:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA17068 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:58:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-mailhub-2.cisco.com (sj-mailhub-2.cisco.com [171.69.43.88]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA17064 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:58:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from beasley.cisco.com (autorespond.cisco.com [171.69.2.135]) by sj-mailhub-2.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA20778 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:05:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-mailhub-2.cisco.com (sj-mailhub-2.cisco.com [171.69.43.88]) by beasley.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id RAA28377 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:57:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [192.31.7.90]) by sj-mailhub-2.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA20743 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:04:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id RAA22085 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mondex1fd.mondex.com(62.172.111.130) by proxy3.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022067; Sat, 19 Dec 98 01:57:11 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from mondex1fd.mondex.com [62.172.111.130] (HELO localhost) by mondex1fd.mondex.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0J/2.0J BL25J listener) id 0000_0050_367b_06ab_6a26; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 01:51:39 +0000 Message-ID: From: David Burdett To: "'Brian Lloyd'" , "'ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com'" , "'Henry Sinnreich'" , "'Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM'" Cc: "'Mark Handley'" , "'Henning Schulzrinne'" Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 01:53:31 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Apologies I think I must have misunderstood. However what would really help would be some more informatioin about AAA. All I can find on the IETF web site that refers to 'AAA' is a reference to an "Authentication, Authorization and Accounting (aaabof) bof" which was held last August in Chicago. I can't find a charter, or any e-mail archives so I don't really know what your objectives or plans are apart from a the results of a search on the Cisco web site on 'AAA' which revealed the following: "Access control is the way you control who is allowed access to the network server and what services they are allowed to use once they have access. Authentication, Authorization, and Accounting (AAA) network security services provide the primary framework through which you set up access control on your router or access server." If this is the case then I think that IOTP and AAA are focussing on a similar authentication problem but for quite different purposes: * AAA is focusing on authentication of an individual a part of the process of that individual accessing a network * IOTP is focusing on authentication of an individual or organisation so that the parties in an e-commerce transaction know who they are trading with. The authentication method may need to work independently of the type of network being used and even can perphaps only be used after an individual has already connected to the network. If people agree to these defintions, then I think they reasonably develop along their own separate paths. Regards David Burdett >---------- >From: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM[SMTP:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >Reply To: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM >Sent: 18 December 1998 08:22 >To: David Burdett; 'Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM'; 'Brian Lloyd'; >'ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com'; 'Henry Sinnreich' >Cc: 'Mark Handley'; 'Henning Schulzrinne' >Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting > > >>Can someone point me in the direction of where I can get a copy of the >>authentication protocol that I *think* your'e developing. > >We are not developing any authentication protocols. We are developing a >mechanism that allows the said authentication protocol to be carried within >a AAA protocol. > >The two authentication protocols that I would look at would be EAP (RFC2284) >and SASL (RFC2222). However, other applications, such as Mobile IP may have >their own authentication mechanism which must be folded within the AAA >framework. > >PatC > >> >>Thanks >> >>David Burdett >> >>>---------- >>>From: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM[SMTP:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >>>Reply To: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM >>>Sent: 17 December 1998 07:17 >>>To: Henry Sinnreich; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com; Brian Lloyd; >>>Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM >>>Cc: David Burdett; Henning Schulzrinne; Mark Handley >>>Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >>> >>> >>>>Pat writes: >>>>> essentially what you >>>>> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own >>>>>applications, >>>>> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. >>>> >>>>What would be the process to coordinate the various WG's and approaches? >>>>In what forum or WG? >>> >>>I believe that the AAA's goal is the correct approach. create a base >>>protocol >>>with a set of guidelines, and then let the other various WGs run with it. >>>Perhaps have someone from the AAA WG oversee the work in other WGs to >>>ensure >>>that there is some consistency. >>> >>>> >>>>Any IESG member on this list? >>> >>>I would hope so. At the very least Fred should be on this list. >>> >>>PatC >>>> >>>>Thanks, Henry >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Patrice Calhoun [mailto:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 11:40 AM >>>>> To: Henry Sinnreich; Henry Sinnreich; Brian Lloyd; >>>>> ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com >>>>> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com; Mark Handley; Henning Schulzrinne >>>>> Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >Path Calhoun and Paul Krumviede have pointed out that there is no >>>>> >duplication with the trade WG so we can leave this to rest. >>>>> Still there is >>>>> >an eerie resemblance in many diagrams from the AAA work with >>>>> SIP, trade and >>>>> >others. I wonder if this should not be a topic for the Internet >>>>>research >>>>> >group? >>>>> >>>>> I don't think so. I think that the problem is clear enough for >>>>> the AAA WG to >>>>> address. There really isn't that much of a resemblance, >>>>> essentially what you >>>>> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own >>>>>applications, >>>>> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. >>>>> >>>>> PatC >>>>> > >>>>> >Comments? >>>>> > >>>>> >Thanks, Henry >>>>> > >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >> From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:henry.sinnreich@mci.com] >>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:52 AM >>>>> >> To: Brian Lloyd; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com >>>>> >> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com >>>>> >> Subject: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Members of this group may want to first look at the work of the >>>>> >> "trade" WG - >>>>> >> today at 13:00, and certainly read the documents >>>>> >> >>>>> >> 1. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-http-00.txt >>>>> >> Summary >>>>> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> 2. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-v1.0-protocol-02.txt >>>>> >> Summary >>>>> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol - IOTP Version 1.0 >>>>> >> >>>>> >> so as to avoid duplication or simply missing out on how the financial >>>>> >> community handles processes that pertain to accounting, at the least. >>>>>I >>>>> >> believe most AAA functions mirror at a lower level what the IOPT >>>>> >> people may >>>>> >> already have solved. Would be interested if folks on this list >>>>> would point >>>>> >> out where AAA and IOTP have to be different or what the IOPT >>>>> >> folks may have >>>>> >> missed that the AAA people know better. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I don't have unfortunately the mailing list for "trade", so >>>>> please include >>>>> >> David Burdet in this discussion. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Thanks, Henry >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Henry Sinnreich >>>>> >> MCI WorldCom 1916/041 >>>>> >> 400 International Parkway >>>>> >> 2A313 - 1916/041 >>>>> >> Richardson, Texas 75081 >>>>> >> Phone: (972)729-4271 >>>>> >> Fax: (972)729-3034 >>>>> >> for short messages/paging to PIN 1632988 use >>>>> >> 1-888-MCI-2WAY, or >>>>> >> http://www.mci.com/connections/interact/sendpage/sendpage.shtml >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > > > From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Sun Dec 20 09:49:51 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05580 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:49:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA01683 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:46:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA01679 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 09:46:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from beasley.cisco.com (autorespond.cisco.com [171.69.2.135]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA00494 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 06:47:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com [171.68.224.215]) by beasley.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id GAA07740 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 06:46:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [192.31.7.90]) by sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA29066 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:08:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id GAA07969 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 06:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com(166.37.204.49) by proxy3.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma007954; Sun, 20 Dec 98 14:46:00 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from omss5.mcit.com (omss5-fddi.mcit.com [166.37.204.27]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id IAA02907; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:44:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from sinnreich2 ([166.44.130.195]) by omss5.mcit.com (InterMail v03.02.05 118 120) with SMTP id <19981220144434.YJVT656@[166.44.130.195]>; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:44:34 -0600 From: "Henry Sinnreich" To: "David Burdett" , "'Brian Lloyd'" , , Cc: "'Mark Handley'" , "'Henning Schulzrinne'" Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:44:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk > If people agree to these defintions, then I think they reasonably > develop along their own separate paths. There may be instances where the paths are crossing, such as when after having logged into a network, a user is requesting QoS for some telephony or multimedia application. The QoS request has to be checked versus AAA and is then sold to the user, possibly via a 3rd party (some broker). This seems to link AAA to IOTP IMHO. It may be more expedient to [> develop along their own separate paths], but could we look into it with some foresight? Thanks, Henry > -----Original Message----- > From: David Burdett [mailto:David.Burdett@MONDEX.com] > Sent: Friday, December 18, 1998 8:54 PM > To: 'Brian Lloyd'; 'ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com'; 'Henry Sinnreich'; > 'Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM' > Cc: 'Mark Handley'; 'Henning Schulzrinne' > Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting > > > Apologies I think I must have misunderstood. However what would really > help would be some more informatioin about AAA. > > All I can find on the IETF web site that refers to 'AAA' is a reference > to an "Authentication, Authorization and Accounting (aaabof) bof" which > was held last August in Chicago. I can't find a charter, or any e-mail > archives so I don't really know what your objectives or plans are apart > from a the results of a search on the Cisco web site on 'AAA' which > revealed the following: > > "Access control is the way you control who is allowed access to the > network server and what services they are allowed to use once they have > access. Authentication, Authorization, and Accounting (AAA) network > security services provide the primary framework through which you set up > access control on your router or access server." > > If this is the case then I think that IOTP and AAA are focussing on a > similar authentication problem but for quite different purposes: > * AAA is focusing on authentication of an individual a part of the > process of that individual accessing a network > * IOTP is focusing on authentication of an individual or > organisation so > that the parties in an e-commerce transaction know who they are trading > with. The authentication method may need to work independently of the > type of network being used and even can perphaps only be used after an > individual has already connected to the network. > > If people agree to these defintions, then I think they reasonably > develop along their own separate paths. > > Regards > > David Burdett > > > >---------- > >From: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM[SMTP:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] > >Reply To: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM > >Sent: 18 December 1998 08:22 > >To: David Burdett; 'Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM'; 'Brian Lloyd'; > >'ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com'; 'Henry Sinnreich' > >Cc: 'Mark Handley'; 'Henning Schulzrinne' > >Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting > > > > > >>Can someone point me in the direction of where I can get a copy of the > >>authentication protocol that I *think* your'e developing. > > > >We are not developing any authentication protocols. We are developing a > >mechanism that allows the said authentication protocol to be > carried within > >a AAA protocol. > > > >The two authentication protocols that I would look at would be > EAP (RFC2284) > >and SASL (RFC2222). However, other applications, such as Mobile > IP may have > >their own authentication mechanism which must be folded within the AAA > >framework. > > > >PatC > > > >> > >>Thanks > >> > >>David Burdett > >> > >>>---------- > >>>From: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM[SMTP:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] > >>>Reply To: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM > >>>Sent: 17 December 1998 07:17 > >>>To: Henry Sinnreich; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com; Brian Lloyd; > >>>Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM > >>>Cc: David Burdett; Henning Schulzrinne; Mark Handley > >>>Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting > >>> > >>> > >>>>Pat writes: > >>>>> essentially what you > >>>>> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own > >>>>>applications, > >>>>> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. > >>>> > >>>>What would be the process to coordinate the various WG's and > approaches? > >>>>In what forum or WG? > >>> > >>>I believe that the AAA's goal is the correct approach. create a base > >>>protocol > >>>with a set of guidelines, and then let the other various WGs > run with it. > >>>Perhaps have someone from the AAA WG oversee the work in other WGs to > >>>ensure > >>>that there is some consistency. > >>> > >>>> > >>>>Any IESG member on this list? > >>> > >>>I would hope so. At the very least Fred should be on this list. > >>> > >>>PatC > >>>> > >>>>Thanks, Henry > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Patrice Calhoun [mailto:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 11:40 AM > >>>>> To: Henry Sinnreich; Henry Sinnreich; Brian Lloyd; > >>>>> ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com > >>>>> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com; Mark Handley; Henning Schulzrinne > >>>>> Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >Path Calhoun and Paul Krumviede have pointed out that there is no > >>>>> >duplication with the trade WG so we can leave this to rest. > >>>>> Still there is > >>>>> >an eerie resemblance in many diagrams from the AAA work with > >>>>> SIP, trade and > >>>>> >others. I wonder if this should not be a topic for the Internet > >>>>>research > >>>>> >group? > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't think so. I think that the problem is clear enough for > >>>>> the AAA WG to > >>>>> address. There really isn't that much of a resemblance, > >>>>> essentially what you > >>>>> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own > >>>>>applications, > >>>>> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. > >>>>> > >>>>> PatC > >>>>> > > >>>>> >Comments? > >>>>> > > >>>>> >Thanks, Henry > >>>>> > > >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> >> From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:henry.sinnreich@mci.com] > >>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:52 AM > >>>>> >> To: Brian Lloyd; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com > >>>>> >> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com > >>>>> >> Subject: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Members of this group may want to first look at the work of the > >>>>> >> "trade" WG - > >>>>> >> today at 13:00, and certainly read the documents > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> 1. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-http-00.txt > >>>>> >> Summary > >>>>> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> 2. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-v1.0-protocol-02.txt > >>>>> >> Summary > >>>>> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol - IOTP Version 1.0 > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> so as to avoid duplication or simply missing out on how > the financial > >>>>> >> community handles processes that pertain to accounting, > at the least. > >>>>>I > >>>>> >> believe most AAA functions mirror at a lower level what the IOPT > >>>>> >> people may > >>>>> >> already have solved. Would be interested if folks on this list > >>>>> would point > >>>>> >> out where AAA and IOTP have to be different or what the IOPT > >>>>> >> folks may have > >>>>> >> missed that the AAA people know better. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> I don't have unfortunately the mailing list for "trade", so > >>>>> please include > >>>>> >> David Burdet in this discussion. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Thanks, Henry > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Henry Sinnreich > >>>>> >> MCI WorldCom 1916/041 > >>>>> >> 400 International Parkway > >>>>> >> 2A313 - 1916/041 > >>>>> >> Richardson, Texas 75081 > >>>>> >> Phone: (972)729-4271 > >>>>> >> Fax: (972)729-3034 > >>>>> >> for short messages/paging to PIN 1632988 use > >>>>> >> 1-888-MCI-2WAY, or > >>>>> >> http://www.mci.com/connections/interact/sendpage/sendpage.shtml > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Mon Dec 21 02:01:39 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA12897 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 02:01:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id CAA07542 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 02:00:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA07535 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 02:00:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from bubbuh.cisco.com (bubbuh.cisco.com [198.92.30.35]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA08554 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:01:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com [171.68.224.215]) by bubbuh.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id XAA20726 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:00:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [192.31.7.88]) by sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA03844 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id XAA21085 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:00:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail4.kolumbus.fi(193.229.0.47) by proxy1.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021071; Mon, 21 Dec 98 07:00:05 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from pchni (pchni.rc.hpy.fi [192.126.6.96]) by mail4.kolumbus.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA02301; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:50:26 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221075823.009b6310@rc.hpy.fi> X-Sender: nikkanen@rc.hpy.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:50:12 +0200 To: "Henry Sinnreich" , "David Burdett" , "'Brian Lloyd'" , , From: Hannu Nikkanen Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting Cc: "'Mark Handley'" , "'Henning Schulzrinne'" In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk There might be a chance to create deeper compability between IOTP and AAA. In principle, the present IOTP has different phases - the user (or the company) buys the merchandise (in AAA case the contract allowing him to get connections) by taking an offer and paying it - the merchandise is delivered (connection made) on the basis of the offer and proof of payment (that's what AAA delivers) - if something goes wrong (faults etc.), there is separate customer care role IOTP v1 has been designed for merchandise with pre-defined cost (like a 15 min connection at fixed prise). AAA adds to this the concept of credit (trust that payment will be done afterwards from ones (credit)company or in electronic cash), which is essential in communications since very few users know in advance, how much time/quality really is needed. This sounds like a capability, which should be added to IOTP. Making these two work together would make selling and buying connections easier and that, IMHO, is the basic goal of AAA and important for IOTP. Hannu At 08:44 20.12.1998 -0500, Henry Sinnreich wrote: >> If people agree to these defintions, then I think they reasonably >> develop along their own separate paths. > >There may be instances where the paths are crossing, such as when after >having logged into a network, a user is requesting QoS for some telephony or >multimedia application. The QoS request has to be checked versus AAA and is >then sold to the user, possibly via a 3rd party (some broker). This seems to >link AAA to IOTP IMHO. > >It may be more expedient to [> develop along their own separate paths], but >could we look into it with some foresight? > >Thanks, Henry > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Burdett [mailto:David.Burdett@MONDEX.com] >> Sent: Friday, December 18, 1998 8:54 PM >> To: 'Brian Lloyd'; 'ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com'; 'Henry Sinnreich'; >> 'Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM' >> Cc: 'Mark Handley'; 'Henning Schulzrinne' >> Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >> >> >> Apologies I think I must have misunderstood. However what would really >> help would be some more informatioin about AAA. >> >> All I can find on the IETF web site that refers to 'AAA' is a reference >> to an "Authentication, Authorization and Accounting (aaabof) bof" which >> was held last August in Chicago. I can't find a charter, or any e-mail >> archives so I don't really know what your objectives or plans are apart >> from a the results of a search on the Cisco web site on 'AAA' which >> revealed the following: >> >> "Access control is the way you control who is allowed access to the >> network server and what services they are allowed to use once they have >> access. Authentication, Authorization, and Accounting (AAA) network >> security services provide the primary framework through which you set up >> access control on your router or access server." >> >> If this is the case then I think that IOTP and AAA are focussing on a >> similar authentication problem but for quite different purposes: >> * AAA is focusing on authentication of an individual a part of the >> process of that individual accessing a network >> * IOTP is focusing on authentication of an individual or >> organisation so >> that the parties in an e-commerce transaction know who they are trading >> with. The authentication method may need to work independently of the >> type of network being used and even can perphaps only be used after an >> individual has already connected to the network. >> >> If people agree to these defintions, then I think they reasonably >> develop along their own separate paths. >> >> Regards >> >> David Burdett >> >> >> >---------- >> >From: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM[SMTP:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >> >Reply To: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM >> >Sent: 18 December 1998 08:22 >> >To: David Burdett; 'Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM'; 'Brian Lloyd'; >> >'ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com'; 'Henry Sinnreich' >> >Cc: 'Mark Handley'; 'Henning Schulzrinne' >> >Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >> > >> > >> >>Can someone point me in the direction of where I can get a copy of the >> >>authentication protocol that I *think* your'e developing. >> > >> >We are not developing any authentication protocols. We are developing a >> >mechanism that allows the said authentication protocol to be >> carried within >> >a AAA protocol. >> > >> >The two authentication protocols that I would look at would be >> EAP (RFC2284) >> >and SASL (RFC2222). However, other applications, such as Mobile >> IP may have >> >their own authentication mechanism which must be folded within the AAA >> >framework. >> > >> >PatC >> > >> >> >> >>Thanks >> >> >> >>David Burdett >> >> >> >>>---------- >> >>>From: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM[SMTP:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >> >>>Reply To: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM >> >>>Sent: 17 December 1998 07:17 >> >>>To: Henry Sinnreich; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com; Brian Lloyd; >> >>>Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM >> >>>Cc: David Burdett; Henning Schulzrinne; Mark Handley >> >>>Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>>Pat writes: >> >>>>> essentially what you >> >>>>> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own >> >>>>>applications, >> >>>>> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. >> >>>> >> >>>>What would be the process to coordinate the various WG's and >> approaches? >> >>>>In what forum or WG? >> >>> >> >>>I believe that the AAA's goal is the correct approach. create a base >> >>>protocol >> >>>with a set of guidelines, and then let the other various WGs >> run with it. >> >>>Perhaps have someone from the AAA WG oversee the work in other WGs to >> >>>ensure >> >>>that there is some consistency. >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>>Any IESG member on this list? >> >>> >> >>>I would hope so. At the very least Fred should be on this list. >> >>> >> >>>PatC >> >>>> >> >>>>Thanks, Henry >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Patrice Calhoun [mailto:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 11:40 AM >> >>>>> To: Henry Sinnreich; Henry Sinnreich; Brian Lloyd; >> >>>>> ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com >> >>>>> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com; Mark Handley; Henning Schulzrinne >> >>>>> Subject: RE: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >Path Calhoun and Paul Krumviede have pointed out that there is no >> >>>>> >duplication with the trade WG so we can leave this to rest. >> >>>>> Still there is >> >>>>> >an eerie resemblance in many diagrams from the AAA work with >> >>>>> SIP, trade and >> >>>>> >others. I wonder if this should not be a topic for the Internet >> >>>>>research >> >>>>> >group? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I don't think so. I think that the problem is clear enough for >> >>>>> the AAA WG to >> >>>>> address. There really isn't that much of a resemblance, >> >>>>> essentially what you >> >>>>> are seeing is each WG trying to solve the AAA for their own >> >>>>>applications, >> >>>>> instead of using a "generic" AAA protocol. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> PatC >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> >Comments? >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> >Thanks, Henry >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> >> From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:henry.sinnreich@mci.com] >> >>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:52 AM >> >>>>> >> To: Brian Lloyd; ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com >> >>>>> >> Cc: david.burdett@mondex.com >> >>>>> >> Subject: trade and RE: post-BOF discussion of accounting >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Members of this group may want to first look at the work of the >> >>>>> >> "trade" WG - >> >>>>> >> today at 13:00, and certainly read the documents >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> 1. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-http-00.txt >> >>>>> >> Summary >> >>>>> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> 2. http URL:draft-ietf-trade-iotp-v1.0-protocol-02.txt >> >>>>> >> Summary >> >>>>> >> Title: Internet Open Trading Protocol - IOTP Version 1.0 >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> so as to avoid duplication or simply missing out on how >> the financial >> >>>>> >> community handles processes that pertain to accounting, >> at the least. >> >>>>>I >> >>>>> >> believe most AAA functions mirror at a lower level what the IOPT >> >>>>> >> people may >> >>>>> >> already have solved. Would be interested if folks on this list >> >>>>> would point >> >>>>> >> out where AAA and IOTP have to be different or what the IOPT >> >>>>> >> folks may have >> >>>>> >> missed that the AAA people know better. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> I don't have unfortunately the mailing list for "trade", so >> >>>>> please include >> >>>>> >> David Burdet in this discussion. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Thanks, Henry >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Henry Sinnreich >> >>>>> >> MCI WorldCom 1916/041 >> >>>>> >> 400 International Parkway >> >>>>> >> 2A313 - 1916/041 >> >>>>> >> Richardson, Texas 75081 >> >>>>> >> Phone: (972)729-4271 >> >>>>> >> Fax: (972)729-3034 >> >>>>> >> for short messages/paging to PIN 1632988 use >> >>>>> >> 1-888-MCI-2WAY, or >> >>>>> >> http://www.mci.com/connections/interact/sendpage/sendpage.shtml >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> > >> > >> From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Wed Dec 23 06:16:01 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA17899 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:16:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id GAA19701 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:10:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [194.237.142.5]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA19697 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:10:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from esealnt141.ericsson.se (esealnt141.ericsson.se [130.100.102.216]) by penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.9.0/8.9.0/WIREfire-1.2) with ESMTP id MAA19949 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:10:30 +0100 (MET) Received: by esealnt141 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:10:36 +0100 Message-ID: <5451F06A5297D2118C210008C7A40BFB3362C7@esekint104> From: "Philippe Charas (ERA)" To: "'aaa-wg@merit.edu'" Subject: On the list Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:10:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Please put me on the mailing list....Philippe From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Wed Dec 23 09:41:55 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20191 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:41:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA21740 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:39:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA21736 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:39:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from hubbub.cisco.com (mailgate-sj-1.cisco.com [198.92.30.31]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA14981 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com [171.68.224.215]) by hubbub.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id GAA04922 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy3.cisco.com (proxy3.cisco.com [192.31.7.90]) by sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA05920 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy3.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id GAA14978 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:39:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se(194.237.142.5) by proxy3.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma014972; Wed, 23 Dec 98 14:38:59 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from esealnt141.ericsson.se (esealnt141.ericsson.se [130.100.102.216]) by penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.9.0/8.9.0/WIREfire-1.2) with ESMTP id PAA18704; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:29:03 +0100 (MET) Received: by esealnt141 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:29:05 +0100 Message-ID: <5451F06A5297D2118C210008C7A40BFB3362C8@esekint104> From: "Philippe Charas (ERA)" To: "'ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com'" Cc: "'carle@fokus.gmd.de'" Subject: AAA mail archive at GMD FOKUS Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:29:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk How do I access the server for AAA mail archive?...KInd Regards Philippe From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Wed Dec 23 09:56:33 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20370 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:56:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA21929 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:54:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA21925 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:54:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from beasley.cisco.com (autorespond.cisco.com [171.69.2.135]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA16897 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com [171.68.224.215]) by beasley.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id GAA10552 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:54:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.cisco.com (proxy1.cisco.com [192.31.7.88]) by sj-mailhub-3.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA07522 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:16:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy1.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id GAA27595 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:54:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.fokus.gmd.de(193.174.154.14) by proxy1.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma027545; Wed, 23 Dec 98 14:53:47 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from track.fokus.gmd.de (track [193.175.133.61]) by mailhub.fokus.gmd.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07504; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:43:33 +0100 (MET) Received: from fokus.gmd.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by track.fokus.gmd.de (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA07188; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:43:29 +0100 Message-ID: <36810191.44845D72@fokus.gmd.de> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:43:29 +0100 From: Georg Carle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Philippe Charas (ERA)" CC: "'ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com'" Subject: Re: AAA mail archive at GMD FOKUS References: <5451F06A5297D2118C210008C7A40BFB3362C8@esekint104> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk "Philippe Charas (ERA)" wrote: > How do I access the server for AAA mail archive?...KInd Regards Philippe Dear Philippe, just use the following URL http://www.fokus.gmd.de/glone/ietf/aaa/ to browse the mails interactively. You also can retrieve the complete archive as text file: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/glone/ietf/mail-archive/aaa/current ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/glone/ietf-mail-archive/aaa/current Best regards, Georg Georg Carle E-mail: carle@fokus.gmd.de GMD FOKUS Tel.: +49-30 3463 7149 Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 31 Fax: +49-30 3463 8149 D-10589 Berlin, Germany http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/carle/ -- Subject: AAA mail archive at GMD FOKUS Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:27:25 +0100 From: Georg Carle To: ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com CC: Michael Smirnow , Georg Carle Hi, On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 14:51:46 -0700 Fred Baker replied to Ryan Moats: >>Is there an archive of the aaa list being set up? >Not yet, though that needs to be done. Frankly, you have received every >email sent to it. we are pleased to announce that the AAA mailing list archive is set up by GloNe at GMD FOKUS with URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/glone/ietf/aaa/ You also can retrieve the complete archive as text file: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/glone/ietf/mail-archive/aaa/current ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/glone/ietf-mail-archive/aaa/current The archive has all the mails starting from 03 Sep. 98 (Minutes of the Chicago AAA BOF). Best regards, Georg and Michael -- Georg Carle E-mail: carle@fokus.gmd.de GMD FOKUS Tel.: +49-30 3463 7149 Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 31 Fax: +49-30 3463 8149 D-10589 Berlin, Germany http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/carle/ From owner-aaa-wg@merit.edu Wed Dec 23 09:57:05 1998 Received: from merit.edu (merit.edu [198.108.1.42]) by nic.merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20379 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:57:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA21941 for aaa-wg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:55:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from kickme.cisco.com (kickme.cisco.com [198.92.30.42]) by merit.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA21937 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:55:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from bubbuh.cisco.com (bubbuh.cisco.com [198.92.30.35]) by kickme.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA16933 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:56:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-mailhub-2.cisco.com (sj-mailhub-2.cisco.com [171.69.43.88]) by bubbuh.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with ESMTP id GAA26606 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:54:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.cisco.com (proxy2.cisco.com [192.31.7.89]) by sj-mailhub-2.cisco.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA00167 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:02:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by proxy2.cisco.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id GAA23054 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:54:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.fokus.gmd.de(193.174.154.14) by proxy2.cisco.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023030; Wed, 23 Dec 98 14:54:33 GMT X-SMAP-Received-From: outside Received: from dumbo.fokus.gmd.de (dumbo [193.175.132.239]) by mailhub.fokus.gmd.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07582; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:45:28 +0100 (MET) From: Mikhail Smirnov Received: (mis@localhost) by dumbo.fokus.gmd.de (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) id PAA04145; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:45:27 +0100 Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:45:27 +0100 Message-Id: <199812231445.PAA04145@dumbo.fokus.gmd.de > To: ietf-aaa@external.cisco.com, Philippe.Charas@era.ericsson.se Subject: Re: AAA mail archive at GMD FOKUS Cc: carle@fokus.gmd.de X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-aaa-bof@merit.edu Precedence: bulk On Wed Dec 23 15:42:18 1998 Philippe.Charas wrote: > How do I access the server for AAA mail archive?.. please try: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/glone/ietf/aaa/ regards Michael