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------=_NextPart_000_7E6A7_01C83521.E5719C00-- From Dectisolh@dispronat.com Mon Dec 03 12:10:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzEor-0008TW-QH for bmwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:10:57 -0500 Received: from chello089076094157.chello.pl ([89.76.94.157]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzEor-0001wf-At for bmwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:10:57 -0500 Received: from ppp ([101.138.156.34] helo=ppp) by chello089076094157.chello.pl ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1tKzyj-000ABY-vP for bmwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 18:11:16 +0100 Message-ID: <2757B4F4.EE863D50@dispronat.com> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 18:10:51 +0100 From: "niroshan Dectis" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmwg-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: esuognuf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 holy shit! can you even piss out of that thing? http://cmcmodel.com/ From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 03 17:28:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzJlk-0005hA-56; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:28:04 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzJlj-0005h2-GO for bmwg@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:28:03 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzJlj-0002mh-3Y for bmwg@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:28:03 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Dec 2007 17:28:02 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB3MS2r8023890 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:28:02 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB3MS2Ba018873 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 22:28:02 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-215.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.124]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:28:02 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [bmwg] Updated draft on MPLS forwarding Benchmarking:draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:28:59 -0500 Message-ID: <8983EC086A9D954BA74D9763E853CF3E044D8FFD@xmb-rtp-215.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [bmwg] Updated draft on MPLS forwarding Benchmarking:draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt Thread-Index: AcZdhAMiMvEO6EMARq6PA2GE6e+aKnYdtbsg References: From: "Jay Karthik (jakarthi)" To: "Aamer Akhter (aakhter)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2007 22:28:02.0544 (UTC) FILETIME=[C43CC700:01C835FB] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2766; t=1196720882; x=1197584882; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jakarthi@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Jay=20Karthik=20(jakarthi)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[bmwg]=20Updated=20draft=20on=20MPLS=20forwarding=20B enchmarking=3Adraft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Aamer=20Akhter=20(aakhter)=22=20, =20; bh=oZmcULw1uhGdY2kVJtFOrLC606Dnx0gTbX3g21qjj1Q=; b=RW9GzbfXrEof0NEY8kZr0DiwXiIuGdrt8mV8OxelaOjwOiFj5COZUI9CFI/mhfPVqwSRwIoO tO6duCd330nbrx/A0jolqUvGqKGfY+tEV0zKFoWHmLMt9y1hzxaVgyRa; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=jakarthi@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Cc: X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Aamer, Rajiv, IMO version 3 is in a good shape and more readable than the original version. Is forwarding benchmarking in load-balancing scenarios, "in" scope or "out" w.r.t this memo ? Also I wanted to highlight that MPLS-to-MPLS is not a "swap" all the time. In a locally repaired LSP, MPLS-to-MPLS would need another "imposition". Is it not ? Cheers, Jay -----Original Message----- From: Aamer Akhter (aakhter)=20 Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:06 PM To: bmwg@ietf.org Subject: [bmwg] Updated draft on MPLS forwarding Benchmarking:draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt Hello BMWG, We would like to bring to your attention the updated draft on basic MPLS forwarding that we will be submitting to the IETF as an individual submission (once submissions opens up again). There have been significant changes since the last version of the draft including: * removal of many test cases thought to be out of scope * rewriting of many cases to be less verbose * addition of reload tests http://www.employees.org/~aamer/draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt Over the past several years MPLS networks have gained greater=20 popularity. However, there is no standard method to compare and=20 contrast the varying implementations and their strong and weak=20 points. This document proposes a methodology using common criteria=20 for the comparison of various implementations of basic MPLS=20 forwarding devices. If there are any concerns or changes that need to be made please do not hesitate to contact us. Regards, Aamer Akhter Rajiv Asati =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Title : MPLS Benchmarking Methodology Author(s) : Aamer Akhter and Rajiv Asati Filename : draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2007-11-25 =09 The purpose of this draft is to describe a methodology specific to=20 the benchmarking of MPLS forwarding devices. The scope of this=20 benchmarking will be limited to various types of packet-forwarding=20 and delay measurements. It builds upon the tenets set forth in=20 RFC2544 [RFC2544], RFC1242 [RFC1242] and other IETF Benchmarking=20 =20 The BMWG produces two major classes of documents: Benchmarking=20 Terminology documents and Benchmarking Methodology documents. The=20 Terminology documents present the benchmarks and other related=20 terms. The Methodology documents define the procedures required to=20 collect the benchmarks cited in the corresponding Terminology=20 documents. A temporary URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.employees.org/~aamer/draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt -- Aamer Akhter / aakhter@cisco.com Rajiv Asati / rajiva@cisco.com _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 04 14:54:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzdqL-0001xs-GA; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:54:09 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzdqJ-0001x0-SA for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:54:07 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzdqJ-0001Zj-1T for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:54:07 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Dec 2007 14:54:07 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB4Js6kn003579 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:54:06 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB4Jrn18020445 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:54:06 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20b.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.53]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:54:06 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [bmwg] MPLS forwarding Benchmarking:draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:53:31 -0500 Message-ID: <15B86BC7352F864BB53A47B540C089B60483CBA9@xmb-rtp-20b.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [bmwg] MPLS forwarding Benchmarking:draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt Thread-Index: AcZdhAMiMvEO6EMARq6PA2GE6e+aKnWCwB6wAMZh66A= From: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" To: "Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry)" , "Aamer Akhter (aakhter)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2007 19:54:06.0335 (UTC) FILETIME=[6D70E0F0:01C836AF] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=6580; t=1196798046; x=1197662046; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rajiva@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Rajiv=20Asati=20(rajiva)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[bmwg]=20MPLS=20forwarding=20Benchmarking=3Adraft-akh ter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Silvija=20Andrijic=20Dry=20(sdry)=22=20, =0A=20= 20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22Aamer=20Akhter=20(aakhter)=22=20 ,=20; bh=43KVRYqSV+OT2qO8QZeuC4JsKPLApDYPKYAdXaNXs+U=; b=JbXnBxAKN4IGnfmflsr/6B12syXXwcBcnuJoUlQu0zUAjC2xdN4X1LKh2F1OCYm5AQe1/XZ6 uAAUq1wjmAklQRcESKEeWXoRx+cJvC/N2rEoXk+BSobafTkn/dMy3xA/; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rajiva@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd3fc8e909678b38737fc606dec187f0 Cc: X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Silvija, Thanks a lot for the support and careful review.=20 1) Good point about multicast exclusion and IPv6. We tried to align the MPLS benchmarking with IP (v4/v6) benchmarking documents, and none of them included any explicit verbiage for multicast.=20 Nonetheless, this is a worthy point, and we will update the scope/draft accordingly. 2) I agree that more text can be added to clarify test setup (in section 6) wrt section 4.1.5.1. Perhaps, section 4.1.5.1 may be updated as - "In all cases the sent traffic MUST be accounted for, whether it was received on the wrong port, correct port or not received at all. Specifically, Traffic loss (also referred to as frame loss) is defined as the traffic (or frame) not received where or as expected (i.e. received on incorrect port, or received with incorrect layer2 or above header information etc.). In addition, the MPLS header...." 3) We will update the Section 6.5 accordingly. This was suggested by another reviewer as well. The plan is to update the section with the following examples - device/hardware reset - RouteProcessor card resetting (e.g. OIR) software reset - reset initiated through a CLI =20 Please note that "power interruption" is to be carried out as an additional reset per RFC2544 section 26.6.=20 Thank you so much again. Cheers, Rajiv=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry)=20 > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:14 PM > To: Aamer Akhter (aakhter); bmwg@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [bmwg] Updated draft on MPLS=20 > forwardingBenchmarking:draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt >=20 > Hi Aamer, Rajiv, >=20 > I have read latest 03 rev as well some of your earlier ones and like > some of changes you have made especially adding system recovery and > reset test cases. Overall I think this is useful work and I am in > support of it. >=20 > Here are couple of specific comments: > - Section 2 (Scope): need to explicitly state that scope includes > unicast only and multicast is not within the scope (or if it is > additional considerations and test cases would definitely be needed). > Also I noticed IPv6 was mentioned in some other places in=20 > document (like > section 4.1.2 and 5) so would be good to be clear up front in scope > section what is covered by the draft=20 > - In section 6 (test procedure) you use as criteria to move=20 > to new test > iteration "if any frame loss is detected", while in section=20 > 4.1.5.1 you > say that "all traffic MUST be acocunted for, whether it was=20 > received on > wrong port, correct port or not received at all". I would=20 > make criterias > in these two instances consistant, preferably either frame loss or > receiption at the wrong port would require one to proceed to new test > iteration. Perhaps you can say in section 6 something like:=20 > "If traffic > verification procedure specified in 4.1.5.1 fails proceed to new > iteration"=20 > - In section 6.5 it would be good to suggest couple of more common > failure events besides device and software resets. For example > switchover between any redundant components in the DUT if any=20 > supported > (e.g. main route processor, switching fabric, etc.). Look at section 7 > of MVPN Scale benchamrking draft where we make some additional common > failure events recommendations and some might be applicable in your > draft as well:=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt=20 > - Also in section 6.5 it would be good to be more specific on what > device and software resets mean as you can typically reset device in > couple of different ways where not all result in same code paths and > outage times...I think the safest method to ensure=20 > consistancy would be power cycle for device reset. >=20 > Cheers, > Silvija >=20 > =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Aamer Akhter (aakhter)=20 > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:06 PM > To: bmwg@ietf.org > Subject: [bmwg] Updated draft on MPLS forwarding > Benchmarking:draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt >=20 > Hello BMWG, >=20 > We would like to bring to your attention the updated draft on=20 > basic MPLS > forwarding that we will be submitting to the IETF as an individual > submission (once submissions opens up again). There have been > significant changes since the last version of the draft including: >=20 > * removal of many test cases thought to be out of scope > * rewriting of many cases to be less verbose > * addition of reload tests >=20 > http://www.employees.org/~aamer/draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt >=20 > Over the past several years MPLS networks have gained greater=20 > popularity. However, there is no standard method to compare and=20 > contrast the varying implementations and their strong and weak=20 > points. This document proposes a methodology using common criteria=20 > for the comparison of various implementations of basic MPLS=20 > forwarding devices. >=20 > If there are any concerns or changes that need to be made=20 > please do not > hesitate to contact us. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Aamer Akhter > Rajiv Asati >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Title : MPLS Benchmarking Methodology > Author(s) : Aamer Akhter and Rajiv Asati > Filename : draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt > Pages : 21 > Date : 2007-11-25 > =09 > The purpose of this draft is to describe a methodology specific to=20 > the benchmarking of MPLS forwarding devices. The scope of this=20 > benchmarking will be limited to various types of packet-forwarding=20 > and delay measurements. It builds upon the tenets set forth in=20 > RFC2544 [RFC2544], RFC1242 [RFC1242] and other IETF Benchmarking=20 > =20 > The BMWG produces two major classes of documents: Benchmarking=20 > Terminology documents and Benchmarking Methodology documents. The=20 > Terminology documents present the benchmarks and other related=20 > terms. The Methodology documents define the procedures required to=20 > collect the benchmarks cited in the corresponding Terminology=20 > documents. >=20 > A temporary URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.employees.org/~aamer/draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt >=20 > -- > Aamer Akhter / aakhter@cisco.com > Rajiv Asati / rajiva@cisco.com >=20 > _______________________________________________ > bmwg mailing list > bmwg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg >=20 _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 04 23:41:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izm4t-00021q-2X; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:41:43 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izm4r-00020k-Sz for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:41:41 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com ([171.71.176.117]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izm4r-0001V3-21 for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:41:41 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-2.cisco.com ([171.71.179.186]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Dec 2007 20:41:40 -0800 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (sj-core-2.cisco.com [171.71.177.254]) by sj-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB54fe6w014604; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:41:40 -0800 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB54da7B026497; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 04:41:40 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-215.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.124]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:40:46 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [bmwg] Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:40:01 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <70672088D7D2CE409FB05DDD7B73D381CBEE26@xmb-ams-33c.emea.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [bmwg] Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt Thread-Index: AcgjBSSYgdyXazt6TsOC8Rm8cB9X6AOJPxmAABrX1tABWG4EgA== From: "Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry)" To: "Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 04:40:46.0696 (UTC) FILETIME=[00B94E80:01C836F9] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4639; t=1196829700; x=1197693700; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=sdry@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Silvija=20Andrijic=20Dry=20(sdry)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[bmwg]=20Updated=3Adraft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt=2 0 |Sender:=20; bh=kWd9n7hPjW9wjfYF2MYiCBk+iuPf/0+gmAgsMThJ3wQ=; b=pfkxdbsGLLkkzLsj6a2QNVbJ5fY669FVgjcileX1liq5Vwtb6brXthAVpzCEwf0JBR1gYVVZ 3+92AHURvdUxqEWqDIVuvy027q6RzZlqFXLZ/n6Ug0Jxz5JFTFF3cLFz; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-2; header.From=sdry@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 Cc: "NAPIERALA, MARIA H, ATTLABS" X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Gunter, Thanks for reviewing the document and supporting this work. =20 That's good point. Being IPv6 version agnostic would be beneficial long term however at this time IPv6 is not within current document scope. We will consider that possibility for the next document version and make explicit statement in the scope either way we decide. Thanks, Silvija -----Original Message----- From: Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve)=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:13 AM To: Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry); bmwg@ietf.org Cc: NAPIERALA, MARIA H, ATTLABS Subject: RE: [bmwg] Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt=20 Hi Silvija and author team, Nice document. Would it be desirable (possible) to have the work IP version agnostic?=20 It is a brief question, but 'if' IPv6 gets full addoption the impact/value of the draft is amplified. If it is not within the forecasted scope then maybe a note in abstract or the introduction could have value? Nice to see this work happening, Groetjes, G/ -----Original Message----- From: Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry) Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:46 PM To: bmwg@ietf.org Cc: NAPIERALA, MARIA H, ATTLABS Subject: [bmwg] Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt=20 Hi BMWG members, We would like to solicit your feedback on the new version of MVPN scalability benchmarking proposal: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt Note that in rev 03 we made couple of major changes based on feedback from IETF68, namely: - scope is modified to include both generic sections applicable to all MVPN architectures specified in "draft-ietf- l3vpn-2547bis-mcast" and sections specific to widely deployed "rosen-8" architecture - metric is changed to be architecture agnostic - text is rewritten to address changed scope of the document We are looking forward to the discussion in Vancouver. And for those of you that won't be able to attend the meeting we would greatly appreciate your comments sent to the mailing list. Thanks, Authors -----Original Message----- From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 2:15 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt=20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Multicast VPN Scalability Benchmarking Author(s) : S. Dry, et al. Filename : draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt Pages : 44 Date : 2007-11-9 =09 Multicast VPN (MVPN) is a service deployed by VPN service providers=20 to enable their customers to use IP multicast applications over VPNs. With the increased popularity the scalability of deploying such a=20 service is becoming of a great interest. This document defines=20 standard metric and test methodology for characterizing and comparing control plane MVPN scalability of Provider Edge (PE) devices that=20 implement MVPN service. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.=20 You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt". =09 NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 00:35:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izmuk-0006xT-Bf; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:35:18 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izmuj-0006wR-Lc for bmwg@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:35:17 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izmui-0007kN-HH for bmwg@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:35:17 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2007 00:35:16 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB55ZGXK010311; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 00:35:16 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB55ZG0i029454; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 05:35:16 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-215.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.124]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 00:35:15 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [bmwg] Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 00:34:31 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <15B86BC7352F864BB53A47B540C089B6047E6B37@xmb-rtp-20b.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [bmwg] Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt Thread-Index: AcgjBSSYgdyXazt6TsOC8Rm8cB9X6AOJPxmAABrX1tAACOygYAFP77/w From: "Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry)" To: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" , "Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 05:35:15.0955 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D5AA430:01C83700] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=9451; t=1196832916; x=1197696916; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=sdry@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Silvija=20Andrijic=20Dry=20(sdry)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[bmwg]=20Updated=3Adraft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt=2 0 |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Rajiv=20Asati=20(rajiva)=22=20, =0A=20=20=20=2 0=20=20=20=20=22Gunter=20Van=20de=20Velde=20(gvandeve)=22=20,=20; bh=4//tu2NOnwOe2ckn1CxUu2QlO0ZG70j3moEALcsiyeY=; b=PFOCihjhkCNJ1BA2HPlVLqT4yKjRKZToYDubGjd/sR9wo5plXfVyYZEVps0te110yt+TUicb 7v1weS0n2kjCFNOrBE8WNyoslY+c4WSXyYKO4S8CGhAKpuyPTX9cZY6O; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=sdry@cisco.com; dkim=pass (s ig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: ed68cc91cc637fea89623888898579ba Cc: "NAPIERALA, MARIA H, ATTLABS" X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Rajiv, Thanks for careful review of the document and your supportive comments. See [SD] in line .... -----Original Message----- From: Rajiv Asati (rajiva)=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 5:06 AM To: Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve); Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry); bmwg@ietf.org Cc: NAPIERALA, MARIA H, ATTLABS Subject: RE: [bmwg] Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt=20 Dear Authors, This document has shaped up really well. Few minor comments - 1) In Abstract and Introduction, special attention is given to the 'standard metric' in addition to the test methodology.=20 I wonder whether it is necessary. The variables refered to by the metric are used as the setup input(s) to the methodology, and implicitly covered within. Is there more to it? =20 [SD]Metric was actually intended to be test output describing overall scalability of PE device. As you are aware MVPN scale is multidimensional problem and there is no single number that can describe scalability of MVPN PE device, so it's important to define the standard tuple (which we call metric) so that results can be fairly compared. But as you observed in each test case some of metric variables are included in the test setup, while others were varied. That is done to reduce multidimensional problem to finite set of tests. Let me know whether this makes sense to you and let's discuss if you have any other ideas on how to approach it. 2) The document uses the term 'metric', which may confuse those who perceive 'metric' as a real nonnegative number analogous to link metric (say).=20 Perhaps, the intention was to use 'matrix' term instead!! [SD] This is useful feedback. Let me see if we can come up with better term. Do you feel there is confusion even though we defined what we mean by metric at the beginning of the section 5 (MVPN Metric Definition)? Do you think if we move that definition closer to the beginning of the document would suffice? 3) While having route-reflector in the test topology is desirable, I wonder whether it needs to be mandatory!! Perhaps, a bit of clarification would be helpful. There are no of providers (albeit small) who don't=20 utilize route-reflector, and may be interested in this work.=20 [SD] Good question. Reason why we included it as a requirement is to ensure results done by different parties are comparable from MVPN perpective. As in cases when there are large number of PEs (which is the case most of the times), full mesh of BGP peerings among PEs would utilize much larger amount of PE resources for BGP peerings compared to case with RR. That in turn would leave less resources for MVPN and make MVPN results for two cases uncomparable. Perhaps we could change wording to SHOULD and add a note that lack of RR use MUST be documented in test report? 4) On IPv6, I agree with Gunter. A clarification in this draft would be good to include. =20 Although, I thought that draft-ietf-l3vpn-2547bis-mcast-05.txt was either IP version agnostic or included consideration for IPv6, if any, but that didn't seem the case. [SD] Agree. We will address this in next version. 5) It is important that the document provides flexibility to select one of MVPN architectures (specified in "rosen-8" architecture" or "draft-ietf- l3vpn-2547bis-mcast") for the mVPN benchmarking. It would be sub-optimal to benchmark each and every mVPN architecture when there is just one (or few) architecture being deployed. [SD] I agree "draft-ietf- l3vpn-2547bis-mcast" provides large number of protocol/options combinations and it's not practical not only to benchmark but also to implement and deploy all of them. In L3VPN WG there are proposals to reduce number of possible combinations (from "draft-ietf- l3vpn-2547bis-mcast") to be implemented and deployed. To address the same problem in benchmarking draft, in the latest version we are proposing generic metric and methodology that is applicable regardless of which "architecture" (from "draft-ietf- l3vpn-2547bis-mcast") is being benchmarked. In addition we are proposing couple of complementary test cases for only widely deployed "architecture" from "draft-ietf- l3vpn-2547bis-mcast" (i.e. 'rosen-8' "architecture")=20 This approach should both ensure longevity of this work regardless of which other "profiles" (besides PIM+GRE) end up being deployed in the future and at the same time satisfies immidiate need to benchmark widely deployed profile. Let us know whether you agree with this approach. Lastly, this draft provides value to the network operators deploying or planning to deploy mVPN. Cheers, Rajiv =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve) > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:13 AM > To: Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry); bmwg@ietf.org > Cc: NAPIERALA, MARIA H, ATTLABS > Subject: RE: [bmwg] Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt >=20 > Hi Silvija and author team, >=20 > Nice document. >=20 > Would it be desirable (possible) to have the work IP version agnostic? >=20 > It is a brief question, but 'if' IPv6 gets full addoption the=20 > impact/value of the draft is amplified. If it is not within the=20 > forecasted scope then maybe a note in abstract or the introduction=20 > could have value? >=20 > Nice to see this work happening, > Groetjes, > G/ >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry) > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:46 PM > To: bmwg@ietf.org > Cc: NAPIERALA, MARIA H, ATTLABS > Subject: [bmwg] Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt >=20 > Hi BMWG members, >=20 > We would like to solicit your feedback on the new version of MVPN=20 > scalability benchmarking proposal: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt >=20 > Note that in rev 03 we made couple of major changes based on feedback=20 > from IETF68, namely: > - scope is modified to include both generic sections applicable to all > MVPN architectures specified in "draft-ietf- l3vpn-2547bis-mcast" and=20 > sections specific to widely deployed "rosen-8" architecture > - metric is changed to be architecture agnostic > - text is rewritten to address changed scope of the document >=20 > We are looking forward to the discussion in Vancouver. And for those=20 > of you that won't be able to attend the meeting we would greatly=20 > appreciate your comments sent to the mailing list. >=20 > Thanks, > Authors >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 2:15 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts=20 > directories. >=20 >=20 > Title : Multicast VPN Scalability Benchmarking > Author(s) : S. Dry, et al. > Filename : draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt > Pages : 44 > Date : 2007-11-9 > =09 > Multicast VPN (MVPN) is a service deployed by VPN service providers=20 > to enable their customers to use IP multicast applications over=20 > VPNs. >=20 > With the increased popularity the scalability of deploying such a=20 > service is becoming of a great interest. This document defines=20 > standard metric and test methodology for characterizing and=20 > comparing >=20 > control plane MVPN scalability of Provider Edge (PE) devices that=20 > implement MVPN service. >=20 > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt >=20 > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to=20 > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the=20 > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After=20 > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get=20 > draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt". >=20 > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in=20 > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or=20 > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >=20 > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >=20 > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt". > =09 > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. >=20 > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader=20 > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the=20 > Internet-Draft. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > bmwg mailing list > bmwg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg >=20 _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 00:56:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IznFC-0007YE-Gz; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:56:26 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IznFB-0007Y9-Pi for bmwg@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:56:25 -0500 Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com ([216.82.250.83]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IznFB-0003SX-Cs for bmwg@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:56:25 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-9.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1196834183!27750944!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.14.2; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.128.149] Received: (qmail 22485 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2007 05:56:24 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp9.sbc.com (HELO flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com) (144.160.128.149) by server-9.tower-120.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 5 Dec 2007 05:56:24 -0000 Received: from enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB55uNAd020426 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:56:23 -0800 Received: from klph001.kcdc.att.com (klph001.kcdc.att.com [135.188.3.11]) by flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB55uGo3020410 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:56:16 -0800 Received: from kcdc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by klph001.kcdc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB55uGsP019975 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:56:16 -0600 Received: from maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by klph001.kcdc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB55u6KG019895 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:56:11 -0600 Message-Id: <200712050556.lB55u6KG019895@klph001.kcdc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (unknown[135.210.32.179](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20071205055606gw10010gp0e>; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 05:56:06 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:56:03 -0500 To: bmwg@ietf.org From: Al Morton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Subject: [bmwg] Calling all Presenters for IETF-70... X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org ... please send me your slides. (I already received Jay's, so he wins first choice of the seats in the Oak room) Al _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 09:59:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izvj3-0004AY-P2; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:59:49 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izvj3-0004AO-2N for bmwg@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:59:49 -0500 Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com ([216.82.250.83]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izvj2-0004nn-Dp for bmwg@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:59:48 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-14.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1196866785!27102843!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.14.2; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.54] Received: (qmail 21999 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2007 14:59:45 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.54) by server-14.tower-120.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 5 Dec 2007 14:59:45 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB5ExirU009356 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:59:44 -0500 Received: from alph001.aldc.att.com (alph001.aldc.att.com [135.53.7.26]) by mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB5ExeTh009326 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:59:41 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alph001.aldc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB5ExeF7007876 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:59:40 -0500 Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alph001.aldc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB5ExbWe007807 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:59:37 -0500 Message-Id: <200712051459.lB5ExbWe007807@alph001.aldc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (unknown[135.210.85.98](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20071205145936gw10010gqae>; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:59:36 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:59:28 -0500 To: bmwg@ietf.org From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [bmwg] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-term-03.txt In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: dbb8771284c7a36189745aa720dc20ab X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Comments on: At 10:15 AM 11/13/2007, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > Title : Benchmarking Terminology for Protection Performance > Author(s) : S. Poretsky, et al. > Filename : draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-term-03.txt > Pages : 24 > Date : 2007-11-13 > We have more time to work this, and a couple of definitions here strike me as unnecessarily complex, in that they refer to other terms we are trying to define when normal language would suffice, IMO. We can discuss these at the session. Like this: > 3.3.1. Failover Event > > Definition: > The occurrence of a planned or unplanned action in the network > that results in a change in the Path that data traffic traverses. could be: 3.3.1. Failover Event Definition: The occurrence of a planned stoppage or malfunction in the network that results in a change in the Path that data traffic traverses. > 3.3.2. Failure Detection > > Definition: > The process to identify at a sub-IP layer a Failover Event > along the Primary Path. How about: 3.3.2. Failure Detection Definition: The process to identify a malfunction or planned stoppage at a sub-IP layer along the Primary Path. and > 3.3.3. Failover > > Definition: > The process to switch data traffic from the Protected Primary > Path to the Backup Path upon Failure Detection of a Failover > Event. 3.3.3. Failover Definition: The process to switch data traffic from the Protected Primary Path to the Backup Path upon detection of a malfunction or planned stoppage. and even here: > 3.3.4. Restoration > > Definition: > The act of failover recovery in which the Primary Path > recovers from a Failover Event, but is not yet forwarding > packets because the Backup Path remains the Working Path. we could say: 3.3.4. Restoration Definition: The aspect of failover recovery in which the Primary Path recovers from a malfunction or planned stoppage, but is not yet forwarding packets because the Backup Path remains the Working Path. and here: > 3.3.5. Reversion > > Definition: > The act of failover recovery in which the Primary Path becomes > the Working Path so that it is forwarding packets. becomes 3.3.5. Reversion Definition: The aspect of failover recovery in which the Primary Path becomes the Working Path so that it is forwarding packets. Replacing "act" with "aspect" in these last two just seems like better English to me. And here's another language clean-up: > 3.4.1. Protection-Switching Node > > Definition: > A node that is capable to participate in a Protection Switching > System. becomes 3.4.1. Protection-Switching Node Definition: A node that is capable of participating in a Protection Switching System. I realize I might be refining something I proposed earlier, but it gets better every time! Al (participant) PS: I found this section from 3.3.1 a little confusing: > Discussion: > Failover Events include, but are not limited to, link failure > and router failure. Routing changes are considered Convergence > Events [7] and are not Failover Events. This restricts > Failover Events to sub-IP layers. Failover may be at the PLR or > at the ingress. If the failover is at the ingress it is > generally on a disjoint path from the ingress to egress. Both link failure and router failure usually cause Convergence events and Routing changes. I think we're trying to say is: Discussion: Failover Events may include link failure and router failure. Failover Events are distinguished from routing changes and Convergence Events [7] by the detection of the malfunction and subsequent protection switching at a sub-IP layer. Failover may be at a Point of Local Repair (PLR) or at the ingress. If the failover is at the ingress it is generally on a disjoint path from the ingress to egress. _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From BetteoakleyMcmullen@cbsnews.com Wed Dec 05 10:30:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzwCN-0004EC-64; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:30:07 -0500 Received: from [78.149.188.12] (helo=dellhome) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzwCM-0007i6-Jm; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:30:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host20602833.cbsnews.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id lfpabgbZ35.991356.Mvi.ePy.0043130627972 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:29:47 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Maribel Eubanks" To: Cc: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_DA794_01C83753.B3A46D90-- From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 13:14:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzylU-0001Fc-Dw; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:14:32 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzylT-0001FL-0f for bmwg@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:14:31 -0500 Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com ([62.128.201.248]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzylS-0003jt-HE for bmwg@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:14:30 -0500 Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lB5IC7OD020806; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:12:07 GMT Received: from your029b8cecfe (dhcp-14bd.ietf70.org [130.129.20.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5IC1jr020759; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:12:05 GMT Message-ID: <013601c8376a$566f3990$bd148182@your029b8cecfe> From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:11:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: jkarthik@cisco.com, "'MORTON, ALFRED C, JR. \(AL\), ATTLABS'" , 'Rajiv Papneja' , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , svapiwal@cisco.com Subject: [bmwg] draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-term-03.txt X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Adrian Farrel List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Sorry, I only just became aware of this work. Please consider aligning terminology with RFC 4427 produced by CCAMP. This derives terms from: - RFC 3386 - G.808.1 - G.841 Of course, there are many other sources of terminology for protection features. Thanks, Adrian _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From EliexpulsionEspinoza@mathgoodies.com Wed Dec 05 18:10:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03OC-0002Z2-7J; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:10:48 -0500 Received: from 84.121.237.221.dyn.user.ono.com ([84.121.237.221] helo=telex7299f0bf6) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03OB-0003t2-St; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:10:48 -0500 Received: from kaplan by mathgoodies.com with SMTP id 6XLATFaqoI for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:10:32 -0100 From: "Demetrius Espinoza" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0419-0007al-CO; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:51:03 -0500 Received: from [201.137.75.128] (helo=user6) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0418-00088Z-ET; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:51:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host17521231.lifeduringwartime.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 1Y8NNmoX32.617707.BPg.AOZ.7053689517406 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:50:39 +0600 Message-ID: <2392f01c83799$aefe6250$0601a8c0@user6> From: "Thaddeus Blackwell" To: Subject: Your order Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:50:39 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_2392B_01C83799.AEFE6250" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071205-2, 05/12/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_2392B_01C83799.AEFE6250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis Soft Tabs would help you to = make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. = Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in = 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_2392B_01C83799.AEFE6250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

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------=_NextPart_000_3EE34_01C837BD.5FAAB9F0-- From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 00:44:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09Xa-0005lU-PJ; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:44:54 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09Xa-0005iM-8Z for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:44:54 -0500 Received: from mail203.messagelabs.com ([216.82.254.243]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09XZ-0000Ha-P4 for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:44:54 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-15.tower-203.messagelabs.com!1196919889!165348!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.14.2; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.54] Received: (qmail 5619 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2007 05:44:50 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.54) by server-15.tower-203.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 6 Dec 2007 05:44:50 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB65in0N013120 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:44:49 -0500 Received: from alph001.aldc.att.com (alph001.aldc.att.com [135.53.7.26]) by mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB65ijkC013103 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:44:46 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alph001.aldc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB65ij9I011754 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:44:45 -0500 Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alph001.aldc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB65ie6u011716 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:44:40 -0500 Message-Id: <200712060544.lB65ie6u011716@alph001.aldc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (unknown[135.210.81.40](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20071206054438gw10010g3ae>; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 05:44:39 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:44:36 -0500 To: bmwg@ietf.org From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [bmwg] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bmwg-igp-dataplane-conv-term-14.txt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org I found a few small problems in this one: >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. >This draft is a work item of the Benchmarking Methodology Working >Group of the IETF. > > Title : Terminology for Benchmarking Link-State > IGP Data Plane Route Convergence > Author(s) : B. Imhoff, S. Poretsky > Filename : draft-ietf-bmwg-igp-dataplane-conv-term-14.txt Al (participant) OLD 3.3 Network Convergence Definition: The completion of updating of all routing tables, including distributed FIBs, in all routers throughout the network. Discussion: Network Convergence requires completion of all Route Convergenceoperations for all routers in the network following NEW Convergence operations for all routers in the network following Section 3.12 OLD Discussion: Rate-Derived Convergence Time should be measured at the maximum Throughput of the DUT. At least one packet per route in the FIB for all routes in the FIB MUST be offered to the DUT per second. NEW ...At least one packet per route in the FIB for all routes in the FIB MUST be offered to the DUT during each second. Section 3.15 OLD Discussion: First Prefix Convergence Time should be measured at the maximum Throughput of the DUT. At least one packet per route in the FIB for all routes in the FIB MUST be offered to the DUT per second. NEW Discussion: First Prefix Convergence Time should be measured at the maximum Throughput of the DUT. At least one packet per route in the FIB for all routes in the FIB MUST be offered to the DUT during each second. _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From LatoyawayAbrams@livestrong.org Thu Dec 06 01:05:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09rJ-0000wq-Sb; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:05:17 -0500 Received: from rrcs-24-123-46-245.central.biz.rr.com ([24.123.46.245] helo=janedell.neo.rr.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09rJ-0001QW-GF; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:05:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host28369830.livestrong.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id oTRKZ37L14.857594.IF1.Ke7.5159122378293 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 01:05:15 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Patty Smiley" To: Subject: Hi Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 01:05:15 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_D8902_01C837CE.083179F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_D8902_01C837CE.083179F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis Soft Tabs would help you to = make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. = Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in = 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_D8902_01C837CE.083179F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_D8902_01C837CE.083179F0-- From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 01:13:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09zX-0007tC-AC; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:13:47 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09zV-0007Zr-DO for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:13:45 -0500 Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com ([216.82.241.195]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J09zV-0001tZ-4b for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:13:45 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-2.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1196921624!15312488!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.14.2; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.54] Received: (qmail 8836 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2007 06:13:44 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.54) by server-2.tower-121.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 6 Dec 2007 06:13:44 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB66Dh2d023448 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 01:13:43 -0500 Received: from alph001.aldc.att.com (alph001.aldc.att.com [135.53.7.26]) by mlpi135.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB66DdP2023422 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 01:13:39 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alph001.aldc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB66DdPj023079 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 01:13:39 -0500 Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alph001.aldc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB66DZq3022591 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 01:13:36 -0500 Message-Id: <200712060613.lB66DZq3022591@alph001.aldc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (unknown[135.210.81.40](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20071206061334gw10010g3ce>; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 06:13:35 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:13:32 -0500 To: "Poretsky, Scott" , From: Al Morton Subject: RE: [bmwg] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-bmwg-igp-dataplane-conv-term-14.txt In-Reply-To: <4BAEA3008BEC574095447FF2A47AAD08A548F2@ZOE.RPS.local> References: <200712060544.lB65ie6u011716@alph001.aldc.att.com> <4BAEA3008BEC574095447FF2A47AAD08A548F2@ZOE.RPS.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org At 12:47 AM 12/6/2007, Poretsky, Scott wrote: >Are you proposing to replace "per second" with "during each second"? > >Scott Yes, but I mostly want us to say exactly what we mean here in a simple and clear way. If what's really meant is: Packets must be offered to every route in the FIB at a rate of at least one packet per second. then just say that. We can word-smith this more tomorrow, Al _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 01:20:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0A5n-0004JB-D5; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:20:15 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0A5l-0004J2-Rm for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:20:13 -0500 Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com ([216.82.250.83]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0A5g-0004mC-Qw for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:20:13 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-5.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1196922007!26203842!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.14.2; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.128.149] Received: (qmail 10088 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2007 06:20:07 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp9.sbc.com (HELO flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com) (144.160.128.149) by server-5.tower-120.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 6 Dec 2007 06:20:07 -0000 Received: from enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB66K6Er002646 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:20:06 -0800 Received: from klph001.kcdc.att.com (klph001.kcdc.att.com [135.188.3.11]) by flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB66K1dq002613 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:20:01 -0800 Received: from kcdc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by klph001.kcdc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB66K1Qw011389 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:20:01 -0600 Received: from maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by klph001.kcdc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB66Jtpe011288 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:19:55 -0600 Message-Id: <200712060619.lB66Jtpe011288@klph001.kcdc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (unknown[135.210.81.40](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20071206061953gw10010g3de>; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 06:19:54 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:19:52 -0500 To: bmwg@ietf.org From: Al Morton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Subject: [bmwg] Remote Participation URLs X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org For those who wish to participate remotely, we have: Start time: 9:00 US PST time (12:00 EST) Jabber Instructions http://www.ietf.org/meetings/text_conf.html Jabber Room bmwg@jabber.ietf.org Slides not all posted yet (scroll down to bmwg in OPS area) https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/70/materials.html Unicast Audio http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ bmwg is on Channel 3 in Oak Al bmwg chair _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 04:02:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Cci-0000qk-34; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:02:24 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Ccf-0000nu-OD for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:02:21 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Cce-0000jO-Tr for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 04:02:21 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Dec 2007 04:02:20 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB692KxV027051 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 04:02:20 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB692KBa001783 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 09:02:20 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.13]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Dec 2007 04:02:20 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 04:02:15 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt Thread-Index: Acg35rEnOxoB1u4iSI+/jmk05Wcwvw== From: "Aamer Akhter (aakhter)" To: "Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 09:02:20.0583 (UTC) FILETIME=[B56C2B70:01C837E6] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=6302; t=1196931740; x=1197795740; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=aakhter@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Aamer=20Akhter=20(aakhter)=22=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Updated=3Adraft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Silvija=20Andrijic=20Dry=20(sdry)=22=20, =20; bh=Qc+ngK2f3TXCwF6TSB2S8tH0sgiw3vmWZKZM6PC3wqU=; b=XnirR0IIbosVsWdS/N+YdQW11q6Xvu1ioZwn7zLdU+csMZiLOky1kTzijtA+OWqQBj6eHBv6 Qs+lsBcCRSoqmVBQlYoWuIYODsYbgOWJFrZEtZDV3C3gYTBt1wt6CqUn; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=aakhter@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 33cc095b503da4365ce57c727e553cf1 Cc: Subject: [bmwg] Re: Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Silvija/Maria/Yugi/Fernando, I do like the breakdown in the test cases where common testcases are = explictly identified. The draft continues to provide good guidance to = network operators looking at this complicated technology. MVPN has many = moving parts and the work takes this multi-variable environment and = tries to make implementation comparisons possible. Unfortunatley it does = take time for the test tool folks to package tests and I hope we can = solidify this work for general avaliability.=20 Thank-you for taking the time to put this together and keeping it moving = forward. =20 Comments/questions: =3D 6.2 Unicast Control Plane Setup=20 =20 Not sure if the reasoning given for the MUST for OSPF is correct. Even = if OSPF was used, there is no guarantee the timers would be equivalent = etc. I would suggest perhaps just documenting OSPF/ISIS and the timer = values?=20 For the SHOULD NOT for internet routes (I'm just assuming routes in the = global table), can a reason be documented? Does this cover IPv6 as well? Think it should be stated either way, and = the 'internet/ipv4' phrase in 6.2 fixed if necessary. I see Rajiv and = Gunter asked the same question, and I agree if the draft can be made = agnostic, it would be very nice. =3D 6.3 Multicast Control Plane Setup=20 =20 In all seriousness, I do appreciate the inline '(default MDTs)' = translations from 'MI-PMSI' J. Thank-you. =20 =20 'maximum Timer Interval between messages of 1/10th of a second.' Just curious, where is the interval number coming from? =20 =3D 6.4 Considerations for Number of Receivers behind remote PEs =20 'J/P' =3D> join/prune =20 'does not perform efficient J/P suppression'. Is this effiency level = defined? =20 =3D 6.6 Test Apparatus Considerations The 80 J/P messages per PDU imply a minimum MTU. Can this be stated? = Also I imagine, that setting the packing like this would have be doable = on the test tool, is that something common? =20 =3D 7.2 Failure Recovery Testing Execution Methodology In step 3, probably want to explicitly specify test-data multicast = traffic, rather than just mcast. =20 =3D 9.1 "Empty" MVPNs Scale I'm probably missing something here, but the two statements seem to be = in conflict: =20 a) Num_*G_C=3DNum_SG_C=3D2*Num_mVPN b) C-instances multicast routes and SI-PMSIs associated with given mVPN = is negligible or zero in this test case. =20 =20 =3D=3D minor points Noted a few 'should not' that were not capitalized. Extremely minor point, but the first line in diagram in fig 1 doesn't = seem to align properly =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry)" wrote in message = news:... Hi BMWG members, We would like to solicit your feedback on the new version of MVPN scalability benchmarking proposal: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt Note that in rev 03 we made couple of major changes based on feedback from IETF68, namely: - scope is modified to include both generic sections applicable to all MVPN architectures specified in "draft-ietf- l3vpn-2547bis-mcast" and sections specific to widely deployed "rosen-8" architecture=20 - metric is changed to be architecture agnostic - text is rewritten to address changed scope of the document We are looking forward to the discussion in Vancouver. And for those of you that won't be able to attend the meeting we would greatly appreciate your comments sent to the mailing list. Thanks, Authors -----Original Message----- From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org]=20 Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 2:15 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt=20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Multicast VPN Scalability Benchmarking Author(s) : S. Dry, et al. Filename : draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt Pages : 44 Date : 2007-11-9 =09 Multicast VPN (MVPN) is a service deployed by VPN service providers=20 to enable their customers to use IP multicast applications over VPNs. With the increased popularity the scalability of deploying such a=20 service is becoming of a great interest. This document defines=20 standard metric and test methodology for characterizing and comparing control plane MVPN scalability of Provider Edge (PE) devices that=20 implement MVPN service. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to=20 i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of=20 the message.=20 You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce=20 to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the=20 username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After=20 logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then=20 "get draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html=20 or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt". =09 NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. 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Meeting starts in <2 hours... At 01:19 AM 12/6/2007, Al Morton wrote: >For those who wish to participate remotely, we have: > >Start time: 9:00 US PST/Local Vanouver time (12:00 US EST) > >Jabber Instructions >http://www.ietf.org/meetings/text_conf.html >Jabber Room >bmwg@jabber.ietf.org > >Slides not all posted yet (scroll down to bmwg in OPS area) >https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/70/materials.html > >Unicast Audio >http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ >bmwg is on Channel 3 in Oak > >Al >bmwg chair _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 11:08:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0JHB-0001UP-IA; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:08:37 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0JHA-0001U4-Lc for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:08:36 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0JH9-0001em-22 for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:08:36 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Dec 2007 11:08:34 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB6G8YwT025795 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:08:34 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB6G8T0o015685 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:08:34 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20b.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.53]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:08:21 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [bmwg] Updated draft on MPLS forwarding Benchmarking:draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:04:21 -0500 Message-ID: <15B86BC7352F864BB53A47B540C089B60489CC89@xmb-rtp-20b.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8983EC086A9D954BA74D9763E853CF3E044D8FFD@xmb-rtp-215.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [bmwg] Updated draft on MPLS forwarding Benchmarking:draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt Thread-Index: AcZdhAMiMvEO6EMARq6PA2GE6e+aKnYdtbsgAGydboA= From: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" To: "Jay Karthik (jakarthi)" , "Aamer Akhter (aakhter)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 16:08:21.0311 (UTC) FILETIME=[38CDBCF0:01C83822] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3847; t=1196957314; x=1197821314; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rajiva@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Rajiv=20Asati=20(rajiva)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[bmwg]=20Updated=20draft=20on=20MPLS=20forwarding=20B enchmarking=3Adraft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Jay=20Karthik=20(jakarthi)=22=20, =0A=20=20= 20=20=20=20=20=20=22Aamer=20Akhter=20(aakhter)=22=20, =2 0; bh=fk2lYB7oa4LcXrqQUXjh9n8fF9+ieM7PcBTfTgeD9ks=; b=jd5dEuZKQycmzHYhKVh3g7sehwDZR1Gi7wgzYKTS3Hpki3SWI60GZnqY6dhBt77qsIcsjdvo tvcqIOMtGSyqogcQsxvHkTQUfEiLjHW+SRNzPP6PDwfLi36uHPfXSoNK; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rajiva@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Cc: X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Jay, Thank you so much for your support for this draft. Please see inline, > Is forwarding benchmarking in load-balancing scenarios, "in"=20 > scope or "out" w.r.t this memo ? Out. This is in spirit of RFC2544. > Also I wanted to highlight that MPLS-to-MPLS is not a "swap"=20 > all the time. In a locally repaired LSP, MPLS-to-MPLS would=20 > need another "imposition". Is it not ? In that case, it would still be a "swap" of one label with a label stack (with >1 label).=20 Cheers, Rajiv =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay Karthik (jakarthi)=20 > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:29 PM > To: Aamer Akhter (aakhter); bmwg@ietf.org > Cc: Rajiv Asati (rajiva); Jay Karthik (jakarthi) > Subject: RE: [bmwg] Updated draft on MPLS forwarding=20 > Benchmarking:draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt >=20 > Aamer, Rajiv, >=20 > IMO version 3 is in a good shape and more readable than the=20 > original version. >=20 > Is forwarding benchmarking in load-balancing scenarios, "in"=20 > scope or "out" w.r.t this memo ? >=20 > Also I wanted to highlight that MPLS-to-MPLS is not a "swap"=20 > all the time. In a locally repaired LSP, MPLS-to-MPLS would=20 > need another "imposition". Is it not ? >=20 > Cheers, > Jay >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Aamer Akhter (aakhter)=20 > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:06 PM > To: bmwg@ietf.org > Subject: [bmwg] Updated draft on MPLS forwarding=20 > Benchmarking:draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt >=20 > Hello BMWG, >=20 > We would like to bring to your attention the updated draft on=20 > basic MPLS forwarding that we will be submitting to the IETF=20 > as an individual submission (once submissions opens up=20 > again). There have been significant changes since the last=20 > version of the draft including: >=20 > * removal of many test cases thought to be out of scope > * rewriting of many cases to be less verbose > * addition of reload tests >=20 > http://www.employees.org/~aamer/draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt >=20 > Over the past several years MPLS networks have gained greater=20 > popularity. However, there is no standard method to compare and=20 > contrast the varying implementations and their strong and weak=20 > points. This document proposes a methodology using common criteria=20 > for the comparison of various implementations of basic MPLS=20 > forwarding devices. >=20 > If there are any concerns or changes that need to be made=20 > please do not hesitate to contact us. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Aamer Akhter > Rajiv Asati >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Title : MPLS Benchmarking Methodology > Author(s) : Aamer Akhter and Rajiv Asati > Filename : draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt > Pages : 21 > Date : 2007-11-25 > =09 > The purpose of this draft is to describe a methodology specific to=20 > the benchmarking of MPLS forwarding devices. The scope of this=20 > benchmarking will be limited to various types of packet-forwarding=20 > and delay measurements. It builds upon the tenets set forth in=20 > RFC2544 [RFC2544], RFC1242 [RFC1242] and other IETF Benchmarking=20 > =20 > The BMWG produces two major classes of documents: Benchmarking=20 > Terminology documents and Benchmarking Methodology documents. The=20 > Terminology documents present the benchmarks and other related=20 > terms. The Methodology documents define the procedures required to=20 > collect the benchmarks cited in the corresponding Terminology=20 > documents. >=20 > A temporary URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.employees.org/~aamer/draft-akhter-bmwg-mpls-meth-03.txt >=20 > -- > Aamer Akhter / aakhter@cisco.com > Rajiv Asati / rajiva@cisco.com >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 12:00:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0K5g-0004Vk-J5; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:00:48 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0K5f-0004TU-CG for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:00:47 -0500 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0K5c-0006Gm-U6 for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:00:47 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.156]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Dec 2007 17:57:32 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([10.193.4.45]) by ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Dec 2007 17:57:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [bmwg] Updated:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt From: Thomas Morin To: "Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry)" In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Organization: France Telecom R&D - Orange Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:57:30 +0000 Message-Id: <1196960250.8526.34.camel@wintermute> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.12.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 16:57:33.0117 (UTC) FILETIME=[183796D0:01C83829] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 Cc: "NAPIERALA, MARIA H, ATTLABS" , bmwg@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Silvija, BMWG folks, My apologizes for only sending my comments now. I won't be able to attend bmwg meeting, but here are the general comments I have after reading your updated proposal. Having restructured the document in order to make it agnostic how mVPN is designed, is definitely a good point, but I still have the concern that the content itself is in many places still restricted to the draft-rosen implementation. For instance: - section 8.1 is supposedly generally applicable, but items 5,6, 7 only apply to a deployment using PIM in the provider backbone - section 9 is also supposedly generally applicable, but the test procedure common to 9.8, 9.9, 9.10 is described in terms only applicable to the PIM LAN procedures case - section 10.1 is supposedly specific to the case of PIM LAN procedures, but could and should be made agnostic (writtent in terms of number of VRFs per VPN instance, instead of "PIM neighbourships") - section 11 could also be made agnostic to the type of PMSI used I have also other concerns which I'll take the time to share later, but the above are my primary concerns, and while I don't deny the effort made, major changes to the doc are still required to make it independent of the design process for mvpn standardization in the l3vpn working group. Thank you, -Thomas Silvija Andrijic Dry (sdry): > We would like to solicit your feedback on the new version of MVPN > scalability benchmarking proposal: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt > > Note that in rev 03 we made couple of major changes based on feedback > from IETF68, namely: > - scope is modified to include both generic sections applicable to all > MVPN architectures specified in "draft-ietf- l3vpn-2547bis-mcast" and > sections specific to widely deployed "rosen-8" architecture > - metric is changed to be architecture agnostic > - text is rewritten to address changed scope of the document > > We are looking forward to the discussion in Vancouver. And for those of > you that won't be able to attend the meeting we would greatly appreciate > your comments sent to the mailing list. > > Thanks, > Authors > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 2:15 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > > Title : Multicast VPN Scalability Benchmarking > Author(s) : S. Dry, et al. > Filename : draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt > Pages : 44 > Date : 2007-11-9 > > Multicast VPN (MVPN) is a service deployed by VPN service providers > to enable their customers to use IP multicast applications over VPNs. > > With the increased popularity the scalability of deploying such a > service is becoming of a great interest. This document defines > standard metric and test methodology for characterizing and comparing > > control plane MVPN scalability of Provider Edge (PE) devices that > implement MVPN service. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-sdry-bmwg-mvpnscale-03.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail > readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > _______________________________________________ > bmwg mailing list > bmwg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From EdithexudationLyon@mathgoodies.com Thu Dec 06 15:38:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0NTs-0004fh-H5; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:38:00 -0500 Received: from [86.43.94.254] (helo=t16) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0NTs-0004pr-2P; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:38:00 -0500 Received: from exodus by mathgoodies.com with SMTP id CDMJHz4BzU for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:37:38 +0000 From: "Grace Starr" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ONw-0002mA-7V; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:35:56 -0500 Received: from [201.245.93.126] (helo=pcyadis) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0ONv-0001qQ-Mi; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:35:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host31482743.wikipedia.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id eDMp1vD958.040889.MVV.A7p.2939707732957 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:35:41 +0500 Message-ID: <20acf01c8384f$fa58baf0$9500a8c0@pcyadis> From: "Constance Beltran" To: Cc: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_9627_01C8386F.2AC3A7D0-- From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 22:09:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0TaH-00039E-Dg; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:09:01 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0TaG-000391-5H for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:09:00 -0500 Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com ([216.82.241.195]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0TaF-0000DF-Pd for bmwg@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:09:00 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-15.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1196996937!21673793!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.14.2; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.128.149] Received: (qmail 8589 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2007 03:08:58 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp9.sbc.com (HELO flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com) (144.160.128.149) by server-15.tower-121.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 7 Dec 2007 03:08:58 -0000 Received: from enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB738vco019331 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:08:57 -0800 Received: from klph001.kcdc.att.com (klph001.kcdc.att.com [135.188.3.11]) by flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB738q9j019285 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:08:53 -0800 Received: from kcdc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by klph001.kcdc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB738qmP012585 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:08:52 -0600 Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by klph001.kcdc.att.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lB738lAN012543 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:08:48 -0600 Message-Id: <200712070308.lB738lAN012543@klph001.kcdc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (unknown[135.210.32.108](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20071207030847gw10010ge9e>; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 03:08:47 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:08:46 -0500 To: bmwg@ietf.org From: Al Morton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Subject: [bmwg] Definition Search Engine at ITU-T X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org The Sancho search engine I demonstrated today, partly in response to Adrian Farrel's comment on the Protection Switching BM draft, is here: http://www.itu.int/sancho/index.asp And, as we have discussed in IPPM, all ITU-T Recommendations are now freely available in pdf form. happy searching, Al bmwg chair _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From CasandrahungryLim@grandforksherald.com Thu Dec 06 22:32:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0TxN-0005BP-3k; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:32:53 -0500 Received: from host-70-45-10-222.onelinkpr.net ([70.45.10.222] helo=pingon.belkin) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0TxM-0001nW-PE; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:32:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host87105821.grandforksherald.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id lmUFGBp258.946296.Bmc.wXb.2927624837435 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:38:18 +0500 Message-ID: <21c8001c8388b$057d0c70$0402a8c0@Pingon> From: "Diann Fenton" To: , =20

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------=_NextPart_000_10CBE_01C84107.5F12E730-- From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 17 19:03:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4PvX-0001fl-WE; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:03:16 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4PvW-0001dm-Tw for bmwg@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:03:14 -0500 Received: from host-not-found.adelman.com ([204.87.183.39]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4PvW-0004yi-Bc for bmwg@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:03:14 -0500 Received: from [192.168.66.51] by Host-Not-Found.Adelman.COM via Internet ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:03:12 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1CF2B797-6916-4409-AF89-27C418DCD7A6@merike.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: bmwg@ietf.org From: Merike Kaeo Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:08:22 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Subject: [bmwg] IPsec terminology and methodology drafts X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hello... Apologies for not being at last meeting but I had a conflict with another meeting. I had a conf call with my co-author today and we are all set with the last rev of the methodology draft which will get submitted in next day. We are adding editorial corrections and some minor text to finalize the methodology draft which should get submitted if not this week, then next. We had received some very good feedback from private email and of course have incorporated the comments we received in last 5 months. I did hear that there was some discussion during the meeting as to whether IKEv1 was still relevant since IKEv2 obsoletes it. I asked a few folks in the hallways who assured me that this was definitely not the case.....other drafts in working groups that reference IKEv1 are still going through. Also, while it is recognized that vendors need to get on the ball to support IKEv2 there are limited shipping products. I know this first-hand since I am following what both the ICSA IPsec consortium and VPNC are doing (and was part of an IKEv2 interoperability bakeoff this past march). Remember that IKEv2 is NOT backwards compatible with IKEv1 so it will not be an easy migration that will happen overnight. IKEv1 will still be relevant for a long time. I personally am a proponent of IKEv2, especially when it comes to IPv6 implementations. And I have for months promised a separate IKEv2 draft which I have just started on. It will be a document that addresses only the IKE-relevant tests and includes additional terminology that is warranted for IKEv2 specific concerns. 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------=_NextPart_000_99B86_01C84162.D422CCB0-- From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 18 10:42:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4eaZ-0005V2-TT; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:42:35 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4VyL-0005Qv-FL for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:30:33 -0500 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4VyL-0005D4-1t for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:30:33 -0500 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 40FD3206EC; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:30:32 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b0ea3bb00000459d-2a-47676908642b Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.123]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 22E0F20505; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:30:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.172]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:30:31 +0100 Received: from [131.160.36.8] ([131.160.36.8]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:30:31 +0100 Message-ID: <47676907.8050407@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:30:31 +0200 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Al Morton , "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Dec 2007 06:30:31.0240 (UTC) FILETIME=[7CC9BC80:01C8413F] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:42:29 -0500 Cc: Jon Peterson , bmwg@ietf.org, Mary Barnes Subject: [bmwg] Work on SIP performance issues X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I understand that BMWG is in the process of deciding whether or not to work on SIP performance and benchmarking issues. The following drafts were brought to my attention: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-poretsky-sip-bench-term-03 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-poretsky-bmwg-sip-bench-meth-02 In July 2006 (IETF 66 in Montreal), as you can see in the MoMs below, the SIPPING WG showed support to work on SIP performance and measurements issues. This was seen as an interesting and useful topic by the SIP community. http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06jul/minutes/sipping.txt Cheers, Gonzalo SIPPING WG co-chair _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 18 10:51:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4ej2-0001zS-WE; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:51:21 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4ej2-0001yI-Gl for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:51:20 -0500 Received: from ipcny.ipc.com ([65.244.37.61] helo=stsnycon1.corp.root.ipc.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4ej2-000225-3g for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:51:20 -0500 Received: from exnanycmbx1.corp.root.ipc.com ([159.63.92.8]) by stsnycon1.corp.root.ipc.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:51:16 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2929 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: FW: [bmwg] Work on SIP performance issues Importance: normal Priority: normal Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:51:14 -0500 Message-ID: <1D6EDDB3E43F3B40BC089CCFEE99DB7D066DFD81@exnanycmbx1.corp.root.ipc.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [bmwg] Work on SIP performance issues thread-index: AchBjMr+z9H+uTEgSXOrJOp5T7bQMgAAGWwg From: "Jain, Rajnish" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Dec 2007 15:51:16.0495 (UTC) FILETIME=[D2EC39F0:01C8418D] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Speaking on behalf of a SIP Service Provider (my employer), I'd also like to express my support for the following two drafts:=20 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-poretsky-sip-bench-term-03 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-poretsky-bmwg-sip-bench-meth-02 We're looking to evaluate proxy servers and SBCs for our network and it'll be highly beneficial if we were working off of some standard SIP performance measurement benchmarks.=20 Thanks, Raj Jain System Architect IPC Systems, Inc. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 1:31 AM > To: Al Morton; Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > Cc: Jon Peterson; bmwg@ietf.org; Mary Barnes > Subject: [bmwg] Work on SIP performance issues >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I understand that BMWG is in the process of deciding whether=20 > or not to work on SIP performance and benchmarking issues.=20 > The following drafts were brought to my attention: >=20 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-poretsky-sip-bench-term-03 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-poretsky-bmwg-sip-bench-meth-02 >=20 > In July 2006 (IETF 66 in Montreal), as you can see in the=20 > MoMs below, the SIPPING WG showed support to work on SIP=20 > performance and measurements issues. This was seen as an=20 > interesting and useful topic by the SIP community. >=20 > http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06jul/minutes/sipping.txt >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Gonzalo > SIPPING WG co-chair >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > bmwg mailing list > bmwg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg >=20 DISCLAIMER: Important Notice ************************************************* This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or = otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended = recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any = means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that = you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from = taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages = may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately = replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or = interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended = recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with = e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with = IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances = permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail = messages to and from its systems. _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 18 17:45:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4lBv-0002Ku-TL; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:45:35 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4lBu-0002Kd-Iw for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:45:34 -0500 Received: from mail.netqos.com ([64.129.167.114]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4lBt-0001zc-1e for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:45:34 -0500 Received: from ausex1.netqos.local ([192.168.0.30]) by mail.netqos.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:45:31 -0600 Received: from ausex1.netqos.local ([192.168.0.30]) by ausex1.netqos.local ([192.168.0.30]) with mapi; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:45:31 -0600 From: "McQuaid, Jim" To: Gonzalo Camarillo , Al Morton , "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:45:29 -0600 Subject: RE: [bmwg] Work on SIP performance issues Thread-Topic: [bmwg] Work on SIP performance issues Thread-Index: AchBjMxF1m2onV14Q024QGOL83G3UQAKUZ5w Message-ID: <1CBA0608AA69D748B9E247AC376C4E24E1472B48@ausex1.netqos.local> References: <47676907.8050407@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <47676907.8050407@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Dec 2007 22:45:31.0654 (UTC) FILETIME=[B1C08260:01C841C7] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Cc: "bmwg@ietf.org" , Jon Peterson , Mary Barnes X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Maybe I don't understand the algorithm or perhaps there are some unstated a= ssumptions, but it seems to me that part of the general test procedure is c= umbersome and results in many extra test iterations and may not achieve clo= sure. [ referenced section quoted below] I did a back of the envelope calculation where the test rate starts at 100 = sessions per second. Assume that the DUT will pass 390 SPS but fail at hig= her rates. Increasing each test cycle by 50% gives us: 100 150 (+50%) 225 338 506 =3D> this one fails cut that rate by 50%, i.e. in half =3D 253; next sequence =3D 253 380 570 =3D> this one fails cut that rate in half =3D 285; next sequence =3D 285 427 =3D> this one fails cut that rate in half =3D 214; next sequence =3D 214 320 481 =3D> this one fails If I understand this correctly, the algorithm fails to achieve closure in a= n efficient manner. I think the description was meant to implement a diffe= rent kind of seeking behavior. Obviously once a pass thru the first cycle = identifies a low rate (that works) and a high rate (that fails) all subsequ= ent test runs should be within that range. Cutting the high rate by 50% do= esn't achieve that. I think the writer assumed something that is missing i= n the actual description. Jim McQuaid / NetQoS (referenced procedure - one example =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ) 1. Configure the DUT in the test topology shown in Figure 1 or SUT as shown in Figures 2 or 3. 2. Configure Tester for SIP UDP with an Attempted Session Rate =3D 100 SPS, Session Duration =3D 0 sec, Maximum Sessions Attempted =3D 100,000 and media streams per session=3D0. 3. Start Tester to initiate SIP Session establishment with the DUT. 4. Measure Failed Session Attempts and Total Sessions Established at the Tester. 5. If a Failed Session Attempt is recorded then reduce the Attempted Session Rate configured on the Tester by 50%. 6. If no Failed Session Attempt is recorded then increase the Attempted Session Rate configured on the Tester by 50%. 7. Repeat steps 3 through 6 until the Maximum Session Establishment Rate is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 1:31 AM To: Al Morton; Romascanu, Dan (Dan) Cc: Jon Peterson; bmwg@ietf.org; Mary Barnes Subject: [bmwg] Work on SIP performance issues Hi, I understand that BMWG is in the process of deciding whether or not to work on SIP performance and benchmarking issues. The following drafts were brought to my attention: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-poretsky-sip-bench-term-03 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-poretsky-bmwg-sip-bench-meth-02 In July 2006 (IETF 66 in Montreal), as you can see in the MoMs below, the SIPPING WG showed support to work on SIP performance and measurements issues. This was seen as an interesting and useful topic by the SIP community. http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06jul/minutes/sipping.txt Cheers, Gonzalo SIPPING WG co-chair _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From DamiensouthwestWhitehead@all-oregon.com Tue Dec 18 23:11:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4qHZ-0007YM-HV; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:11:45 -0500 Received: from 201-43-47-158.dsl.telesp.net.br ([201.43.47.158] helo=acerati) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4qHY-0000Ui-Dv; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:11:45 -0500 Received: from mulligan by all-oregon.com with SMTP id img00QDg3V for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 02:10:20 +0300 From: "Wilfredo Snow" To: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4w9F-0004uH-BS; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:27:33 -0500 Received: from host-87-242-53-209.prtelecom.hu ([87.242.53.209] helo=attila) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4w9E-0003a7-QM; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:27:33 -0500 Received: from downwind by newsbusters.org with SMTP id yjU8ESoUlO for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:29:39 -0100 From: "Rosie Richter" To: Subject: Slots.. 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Download our casino in 20 seconds to get $999 richer when you join. http://eurocasinoac.com/ From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 19 09:19:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4zlU-0005Qv-AS; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:19:16 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4pCE-0007yo-0c for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:02:10 -0500 Received: from email.reefpoint.com ([66.152.209.162] helo=ZOE.RPS.local) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4pCD-0007Ut-AW for bmwg@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:02:09 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [bmwg] Work on SIP performance issues Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:01:27 -0500 Message-ID: <4BAEA3008BEC574095447FF2A47AAD08A54A26@ZOE.RPS.local> In-reply-to: <1CBA0608AA69D748B9E247AC376C4E24E1472B48@ausex1.netqos.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [bmwg] Work on SIP performance issues Thread-Index: AchBjMxF1m2onV14Q024QGOL83G3UQAKUZ5wAAxb2KA= References: <47676907.8050407@ericsson.com> <1CBA0608AA69D748B9E247AC376C4E24E1472B48@ausex1.netqos.local> From: "Poretsky, Scott" To: "McQuaid, Jim" , "Gonzalo Camarillo" , "Al Morton" , "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c54bc2f42d02429833c0ca4b8725abd7 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:19:13 -0500 Cc: Jon Peterson , bmwg@ietf.org, Mary Barnes X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Jim, Thank you for pointing this out. What we are trying to achieve is a practical algorithm to efficiently result in lab measurement of the Maximum Session Establishment Rate. =20 An incremental step of 100 SPS attempted should be applied until first failure occurs. Upon failure at iteration n, the 50% rule should be applied for iteration n+1 using the difference of SPS between failed iteration n and previous successful iteration n-1. If n+1 results in failure then this is repeated for iteration n+2 using the difference of iterations n-1 and n+1. If n+1 is successful then the 50% rule should be applied for iteration n+2 using the difference of SPS between failed iteration n and n+1. This is repeated until it is no longer possible to apply the 50% rule. Using your example of 390 SPS, the iterations would look as follow: Iteration, Attempted Establishment Rate - Result 1, 100 - Successful 2, 200 - Successful 3 (n-1), 300 - Successful 4 (n), 400 - Failure 5 (n+1), 350 - Successful 6 (n+2), 375 - Successful 7, 387 - Successful 8, 393 - Failure 9, 390 - Successful 10, 391 - Failure Max Session Establishment Rate =3D 390 SPS The next rev of the document will be updated to have clarifying wording to reflect this. Scott -----Original Message----- From: McQuaid, Jim [mailto:Jim.McQuaid@netqos.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 5:45 PM To: Gonzalo Camarillo; Al Morton; Romascanu, Dan (Dan) Cc: bmwg@ietf.org; Jon Peterson; Mary Barnes Subject: RE: [bmwg] Work on SIP performance issues Maybe I don't understand the algorithm or perhaps there are some unstated assumptions, but it seems to me that part of the general test procedure is cumbersome and results in many extra test iterations and may not achieve closure. [ referenced section quoted below] I did a back of the envelope calculation where the test rate starts at 100 sessions per second. Assume that the DUT will pass 390 SPS but fail at higher rates. Increasing each test cycle by 50% gives us: 100 150 (+50%) 225 338 506 =3D> this one fails cut that rate by 50%, i.e. in half =3D 253; next sequence =3D 253 380 570 =3D> this one fails cut that rate in half =3D 285; next sequence =3D 285 427 =3D> this one fails cut that rate in half =3D 214; next sequence =3D 214 320 481 =3D> this one fails If I understand this correctly, the algorithm fails to achieve closure in an efficient manner. I think the description was meant to implement a different kind of seeking behavior. Obviously once a pass thru the first cycle identifies a low rate (that works) and a high rate (that fails) all subsequent test runs should be within that range. Cutting the high rate by 50% doesn't achieve that. I think the writer assumed something that is missing in the actual description. Jim McQuaid / NetQoS (referenced procedure - one example = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ) 1. Configure the DUT in the test topology shown in Figure 1 or SUT as shown in Figures 2 or 3. 2. Configure Tester for SIP UDP with an Attempted Session Rate = =3D 100 SPS, Session Duration =3D 0 sec, Maximum Sessions = Attempted =3D 100,000 and media streams per session=3D0. 3. Start Tester to initiate SIP Session establishment with the DUT. 4. Measure Failed Session Attempts and Total Sessions Established at the Tester. 5. If a Failed Session Attempt is recorded then reduce the Attempted Session Rate configured on the Tester by 50%. 6. If no Failed Session Attempt is recorded then increase the Attempted Session Rate configured on the Tester by 50%. 7. Repeat steps 3 through 6 until the Maximum Session Establishment Rate is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 1:31 AM To: Al Morton; Romascanu, Dan (Dan) Cc: Jon Peterson; bmwg@ietf.org; Mary Barnes Subject: [bmwg] Work on SIP performance issues Hi, I understand that BMWG is in the process of deciding whether or not to work on SIP performance and benchmarking issues. The following drafts were brought to my attention: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-poretsky-sip-bench-term-03 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-poretsky-bmwg-sip-bench-meth-02 In July 2006 (IETF 66 in Montreal), as you can see in the MoMs below, the SIPPING WG showed support to work on SIP performance and measurements issues. This was seen as an interesting and useful topic by the SIP community. http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06jul/minutes/sipping.txt Cheers, Gonzalo SIPPING WG co-chair _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 19 17:17:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J57E9-0006PT-5W; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:17:21 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J57E7-0006Jy-Qz for bmwg@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:17:19 -0500 Received: from mail.networktest.com ([207.181.8.134]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J57E6-0001ON-AR for bmwg@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:17:19 -0500 Received: by mail.networktest.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 3B99C78C69; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:17:17 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on mail.networktest.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 Received: from dhcp254.eng.networktest.com (ns.networktest.com [207.181.8.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.networktest.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 342DC78C54 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:17:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47699866.70206@networktest.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:17:10 -0800 From: David Newman Organization: Network Test Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmwg@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Subject: [bmwg] logic problem in RFC 3918 X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org The multicast group capacity test (RFC 3918, section 7.1) says an iteration passes if "at least one frame for each multicast group is forwarded properly by the DUT/SUT on each participating egress interface." That word "properly" is a problem; as the test is currently written, there's no way to verify it. Most (though perhaps not all) switches will flood multicast traffic when the test instrument attempts to join more groups than the DUT/SUT can handle. A flooded frame looks exactly the same as a non-flooded one. Since an RFC-compliant test can be performed with as little equipment as one ingress and one egress interface (indeed, that's explicitly stated in at least one commercial implementation), the test instrument cannot detect that the DUT/SUT is flooding, and will still pass that iteration. A test with 1000 egress interfaces also will incorrectly pass if receivers on all 1000 interfaces join the same groups and flooding occurs. Two possible fixes: 1. Add one or more monitor ports to the test, and fail any iteration in which the test instrument receives multicast test traffic on the monitor port(s). This is conceptually similar to the setup in RFC 2889's address caching capacity test. 2. Configure the test instrument so that each egress interface joins a different set of multicast groups. Fail any iteration in which multicast traffic is not forwarded properly (in this case, shows up on the wrong egress interface). Of these two, I strongly prefer option 1. It allows for tests with more fan-out and, in L3 scenarios, more mroutes. 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I've posted the Draft Minutes:
 https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/70/materials.html
(scroll down to find BMWG materials)

Please send any comments on the minutes by Jan 8, 2008
(I may not be able to respond till then, either).

I hope that everyone  had/is having/will have 
a wonderful and restful holiday season.

See you all next year!

Al
bmwg chair
--===============0363751872== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg --===============0363751872==-- From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 21 13:59:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5n5f-0000bM-9J; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:59:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5n5e-0000bA-GW for bmwg@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:59:22 -0500 Received: from host-not-found.adelman.com ([204.87.183.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5n5d-0006ZM-Oo for bmwg@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:59:22 -0500 Received: from [192.168.66.51] by Host-Not-Found.Adelman.COM via Internet ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:59:17 PST In-Reply-To: <200712211533.lBLFX772013985@alph001.aldc.att.com> References: <200712211533.lBLFX772013985@alph001.aldc.att.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Merike Kaeo Subject: Re: [bmwg] Draft Minutes from IETF-70 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:04:28 -0800 To: Al Morton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: bmwg@ietf.org X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Since I missed the meeting but just checked the notes I need one thing clarified.... Scott Poretsky mentioned that not all of his comments had been incorporated in the IPsec terminology or methodology drafts. I was just looking for the email from the past year where I know I specifically went through the document and addressed ALL of his concerns. I believe it was from the last call that was done about a year ago [and thanks for the thorough read at that time Scott]. Some comments I (and my co-authors) did not agree with but I am fairly certain that I had sent out an email as to why. I can't locate it right now. Scott.....can you please let me know which specific concerns were not incorporated? Then I can address specifically whether it was an oversight or whether there was a specific reason that a decision was made to not incorporate a particular comment. I will keep searching my email archives.....I believe I sent the note to bmwg.......but it's been a while..... If anyone has additional specific comments as to what should/needs to be updated for current docs that address IKEv1, please let me know. Although it may be best to wait for the next set of IDs which will be published any day (The co-authors are having a conf call today actually). And, as I mentioned in an email last week an IKEv2 specific doc is on its way....... Wishing everyone a fun, relaxing and peaceful holiday! - merike On Dec 21, 2007, at 7:33 AM, Al Morton wrote: > BMWG Folks, > > I've posted the Draft Minutes: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/70/materials.html > (scroll down to find BMWG materials) > > Please send any comments on the minutes by Jan 8, 2008 > (I may not be able to respond till then, either). > > I hope that everyone had/is having/will have > a wonderful and restful holiday season. > > See you all next year! > > Al > bmwg chair > _______________________________________________ > bmwg mailing list > bmwg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From SylviabolognaCordova@docjar.net Fri Dec 21 22:18:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5usa-0000yN-Fr; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:18:24 -0500 Received: from p5b27f690.dip.t-dialin.net ([91.39.246.144] helo=homepc) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5usa-0003Jw-4l; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:18:24 -0500 Received: from injure by docjar.net with SMTP id 6ZidZBrTgY for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 04:17:30 -0100 From: "Victoria Corbett" To: Subject: Download our casino in 20 seconds to get $999 richer when you join. 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------=_NextPart_000_39016_01C84468.2FAEEDE0-- From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Sat Dec 22 09:22:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J65Er-00037r-4C; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:22:05 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J65En-000378-7r for bmwg@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:22:02 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J65Em-0001ce-O5 for bmwg@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:22:01 -0500 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Dec 2007 09:21:56 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBMELuJW006821; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:21:56 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBMELoB2014358; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:21:56 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-20b.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.53]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:21:30 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [bmwg] logic problem in RFC 3918 Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:21:29 -0500 Message-ID: <15B86BC7352F864BB53A47B540C089B604A29DE1@xmb-rtp-20b.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <47699866.70206@networktest.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [bmwg] logic problem in RFC 3918 Thread-Index: AchCjQZZp1sSWz6+TvuM/QZrdV5WXgBW6jDQ From: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" To: "David Newman" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Dec 2007 14:21:30.0094 (UTC) FILETIME=[F207A8E0:01C844A5] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3368; t=1198333316; x=1199197316; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rajiva@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Rajiv=20Asati=20(rajiva)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[bmwg]=20logic=20problem=20in=20RFC=203 918 |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22David=20Newman=22=20,=20 ; bh=ycqM2k3ddpD9VKdalkVzcFcXvO35py4F/ZrPmQDcaZE=; b=qpIYhB2qLxpc/uHrjp7SuxUFUD8lBXaz+57W4N5sDzCChHe3Hs26No2Xd/ aqqI9qE0ix0g2kGTBgQkKjOrrIC48pXGyeT9FsvYKt58V28Lqq4H4BARpcRY bMY6rM+JYV; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rajiva@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Cc: X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Dave, You have brought up an interesting issue.=20 > Most (though perhaps not all) switches will flood multicast=20 > traffic when > the test instrument attempts to join more groups than the DUT/SUT can > handle. Could you please elaborate? A sane multicast implementation should not let the multicast traffic be forwarded on the interface that didn't participate on a particular multicast tree. This, of course, is orthagonal to IGMP snooping capability that is common on layer2 devices. But as I read section 7.1, I find it a bit left for interpretation. For example,=20 the below excerpt from procedure - ... If at least one frame for each multicast group is forwarded properly by the DUT/SUT on each participating egress interface, the iteration is said to pass at the current capacity. ... If the DUT receives 1000 frames for each multicast group from the source, then one interpretation of the above excerpt is that the receipt of one or more frames (out of 1000 frames) would qualify the case as "success".=20 AFAIK, the DUT must forward 1000 frames on each participating egress interface for the success.=20 Cheers, Rajiv > -----Original Message----- > From: David Newman [mailto:dnewman@networktest.com]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 5:17 PM > To: bmwg@ietf.org > Subject: [bmwg] logic problem in RFC 3918 >=20 > The multicast group capacity test (RFC 3918, section 7.1) says an > iteration passes if "at least one frame for each multicast group is > forwarded properly by the DUT/SUT on each participating=20 > egress interface." >=20 > That word "properly" is a problem; as the test is currently written, > there's no way to verify it. >=20 > Most (though perhaps not all) switches will flood multicast=20 > traffic when > the test instrument attempts to join more groups than the DUT/SUT can > handle. >=20 > A flooded frame looks exactly the same as a non-flooded one. Since an > RFC-compliant test can be performed with as little equipment as one > ingress and one egress interface (indeed, that's explicitly=20 > stated in at > least one commercial implementation), the test instrument=20 > cannot detect > that the DUT/SUT is flooding, and will still pass that iteration. >=20 > A test with 1000 egress interfaces also will incorrectly pass if > receivers on all 1000 interfaces join the same groups and=20 > flooding occurs. >=20 > Two possible fixes: >=20 > 1. Add one or more monitor ports to the test, and fail any=20 > iteration in > which the test instrument receives multicast test traffic on=20 > the monitor > port(s). This is conceptually similar to the setup in RFC=20 > 2889's address caching capacity test. >=20 > 2. Configure the test instrument so that each egress interface joins a > different set of multicast groups. Fail any iteration in=20 > which multicast > traffic is not forwarded properly (in this case, shows up on the wrong > egress interface). >=20 > Of these two, I strongly prefer option 1. It allows for tests=20 > with more > fan-out and, in L3 scenarios, more mroutes. Both of these are more > stressful on the DUT/SUT. >=20 > dn >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > bmwg mailing list > bmwg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg >=20 _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From bmwg-bounces@ietf.org Sat Dec 22 10:25:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J66Dl-00072k-If; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:25:01 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J66Dk-00072d-2u for bmwg@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:25:00 -0500 Received: from mail.networktest.com ([207.181.8.134]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J66Dj-0002xS-At for bmwg@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:24:59 -0500 Received: by mail.networktest.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 4339378C5B; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:24:58 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on mail.networktest.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_PBL, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL,RDNS_DYNAMIC autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from mose.local (cpe-75-82-195-55.socal.res.rr.com [75.82.195.55]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.networktest.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF50778C55 for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:24:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <476D2C42.4030806@networktest.com> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:24:50 -0800 From: David Newman Organization: Network Test Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [bmwg] logic problem in RFC 3918 References: <15B86BC7352F864BB53A47B540C089B604A29DE1@xmb-rtp-20b.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <15B86BC7352F864BB53A47B540C089B604A29DE1@xmb-rtp-20b.amer.cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93e7fb8fef2e780414389440f367c879 X-BeenThere: bmwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Benchmarking Methodology Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org On 12/22/07 6:21 AM, Rajiv Asati (rajiva) wrote: > Hi Dave, > > You have brought up an interesting issue. > >> Most (though perhaps not all) switches will flood multicast >> traffic when >> the test instrument attempts to join more groups than the DUT/SUT can >> handle. > > Could you please elaborate? A sane multicast implementation should not > let the multicast traffic be forwarded on the interface that didn't > participate on a particular multicast tree. That's true for a non-overload case -- ie, when the number of groups involved is less than or equal to the DUT's IGMP table capacity. In an overload case, where the test instrument attempts to join more IGMP groups than the DUT can handle and then offers traffic to all those groups, most DUTs will flood multicast traffic. I make no judgment as to whether this is sane or not, but I have observed this behavior in many different vendors' implementations, including one from a certain San Jose-based networking vendor. (To its credit, this particular device does filter flooded frames so they won't be forwarded back out the ingress interface; however, there is flooding to other interfaces that aren't part of the multicast tree.) By definition, the multicast group capacity test attempts to find the maximum number of groups. With any kind of limits testing, there should be iterations where the tester attempts to go over the DUT's limit. The logic problem with the test, as currently written, is that it is not possible to evaulate whether a frame has been flooded. > > This, of course, is orthagonal to IGMP snooping capability that is > common on layer2 devices. > > > But as I read section 7.1, I find it a bit left for interpretation. For > example, > the below excerpt from procedure - > > ... > If at least one frame for each multicast group is forwarded properly > by the DUT/SUT on each participating egress interface, the iteration > is said to pass at the current capacity. > ... > > If the DUT receives 1000 frames for each multicast group from the > source, then one interpretation of the above excerpt is that the receipt > of one or more frames (out of 1000 frames) would qualify the case as > "success". > > AFAIK, the DUT must forward 1000 frames on each participating egress > interface for the success. I would like that too, and argued unsuccessfully for zero loss at the time bmwg considered this methodology. But the RFC says "at least one frame", and 1 != 1000. The DUT could drop 999 frames and still pass. However, this is orthogonal to the logic problem. Regardless of whether the DUT forwards 1 or 1 million frames, the test instrument needs some method to determine if they have been flooded. And as currently written, the RFC allows a result with flooding to be considered a success. dn > > Cheers, > Rajiv > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Newman [mailto:dnewman@networktest.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 5:17 PM >> To: bmwg@ietf.org >> Subject: [bmwg] logic problem in RFC 3918 >> >> The multicast group capacity test (RFC 3918, section 7.1) says an >> iteration passes if "at least one frame for each multicast group is >> forwarded properly by the DUT/SUT on each participating >> egress interface." >> >> That word "properly" is a problem; as the test is currently written, >> there's no way to verify it. >> >> Most (though perhaps not all) switches will flood multicast >> traffic when >> the test instrument attempts to join more groups than the DUT/SUT can >> handle. >> >> A flooded frame looks exactly the same as a non-flooded one. Since an >> RFC-compliant test can be performed with as little equipment as one >> ingress and one egress interface (indeed, that's explicitly >> stated in at >> least one commercial implementation), the test instrument >> cannot detect >> that the DUT/SUT is flooding, and will still pass that iteration. >> >> A test with 1000 egress interfaces also will incorrectly pass if >> receivers on all 1000 interfaces join the same groups and >> flooding occurs. >> >> Two possible fixes: >> >> 1. Add one or more monitor ports to the test, and fail any >> iteration in >> which the test instrument receives multicast test traffic on >> the monitor >> port(s). This is conceptually similar to the setup in RFC >> 2889's address caching capacity test. >> >> 2. Configure the test instrument so that each egress interface joins a >> different set of multicast groups. Fail any iteration in >> which multicast >> traffic is not forwarded properly (in this case, shows up on the wrong >> egress interface). >> >> Of these two, I strongly prefer option 1. It allows for tests >> with more >> fan-out and, in L3 scenarios, more mroutes. Both of these are more >> stressful on the DUT/SUT. >> >> dn >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bmwg mailing list >> bmwg@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg >> > _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg From LemuelhovelLynn@aclj.org Sat Dec 22 13:01:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J68fM-0002kq-Ij; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:01:40 -0500 Received: from [201.240.83.25] (helo=luisbb24107019) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J68fL-0006uN-Td; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:01:40 -0500 Received: from cenozoic by aclj.org with SMTP id WeqVgGIbtp for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:01:13 +0500 From: "Leopoldo Michael" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6CtC-0002HI-8P for bmwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:32:14 -0500 Received: from host150-7-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([79.0.7.150]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J6Ct9-0005jq-DO for bmwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:32:14 -0500 Received: from red-ece85b0d6be ([170.108.49.60] helo=red-ece85b0d6be) by host150-7-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1yXFpg-000PJE-dV for bmwg-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:32:19 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:32:08 +0100 From: "Sheran Pauli" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmwg-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: essagtno Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Incredible, humongous, size - when sharon saw how big I had become,
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