From nobody Sun Jun 7 14:00:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8A3E1ACDBF for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2015 14:00:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dAd1sgVtbmZx for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2015 14:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x231.google.com (mail-wg0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E113B1ACDF5 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2015 14:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgbgq6 with SMTP id gq6so89270008wgb.3 for ; Sun, 07 Jun 2015 14:00:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :thread-index:content-language; bh=h3l8dSlrw5gRyQQDjFnG7ftXSSuKFevtjt4YvVIOpGs=; b=C1NHZUqykHj/GZQSr/psZW8dUxU5KFDSmGTtrkHCQmKk4CDrc3CirPZUM9K7bHqxtp ZNbbD2/8Vxf6Ne5Y41EBEkHx6TUXDSqeevHSrGI0lp/eoqliIYLo9UgFvFsuYKsWTUz+ DmZFJRNFIe2YE9J7OKmQ/dMleXeovbDxv22hW3r2SlBiFWnPDopuhfEP7KntBdbCwasV nN532VHgeOgIwATQMBVfcUR0jjSWelA2GkJJMyH9oQQnVb91WHX7oiKbMoUIdBnorIVX cx0VMBF9iCTNc+yF3Tr4uZkhBiEgRWSNJfW1VDxQyGf5ljR6S5kCp1BQYhH9KdpCILQR gt0w== X-Received: by 10.180.87.38 with SMTP id u6mr15876650wiz.43.1433710809601; Sun, 07 Jun 2015 14:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE (bzq-79-181-63-193.red.bezeqint.net. [79.181.63.193]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id mv11sm8328339wic.23.2015.06.07.14.00.07 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 07 Jun 2015 14:00:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 00:00:00 +0300 Message-ID: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0BA1_01D0A17E.12078BA0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdChZOrG2LZ8XvIQRAe4tWWBcNkkyQ== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: [clue] WGLC on draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 - reminder X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2015 21:00:12 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0BA1_01D0A17E.12078BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, The WG chairs would like to start a WGLC on https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 To allow enough time we will have it as a long one. The WGLC will end by June 10th . At the last IETF mating Dan Burnett, Rob Hansen and Paul Kyzivat volunteered to review the document. Please also verify the consistency with the CLUE framework document. Thanks Roni Even CLUE WG co-chair ------=_NextPart_000_0BA1_01D0A17E.12078BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

The WG chairs = would like to start a WGLC on https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09

To allow enough time we will have it as = a long one.

The WGLC will end by June = 10th .

At the last IETF = mating Dan Burnett, Rob Hansen and Paul Kyzivat volunteered to review = the document.

 

Please also verify the consistency with the CLUE = framework document.

 

Thanks

Roni = Even

CLUE WG = co-chair

------=_NextPart_000_0BA1_01D0A17E.12078BA0-- From nobody Tue Jun 9 12:54:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C93CC1B3034 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 12:54:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.465 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.465 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xMm5ZVZ6UCSh for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 12:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC93E1B301F for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 12:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.97]) by resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id eKtw1q00Q26dK1R01KuJ5b; Tue, 09 Jun 2015 19:54:18 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.151]) by resomta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id eKuH1q00K3Ge9ey01KuHie; Tue, 09 Jun 2015 19:54:18 +0000 Message-ID: <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2015 15:54:16 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CLUE References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1433879658; bh=gcICd75P0ncOVGL9/+5eM/shFv8A75opcXZOT2XSbBs=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=jKR/BAUI7K0qy7sh0Byl3SP8UOfzGoM8QnFDNtzhi9iMdBD8zYOHoG6hyvZ2v/jwv N/dDNlDzCFm0pY8dA4ET2E7/0k3Jdbl/kkrdEj3K5d34aSd/908trogUwMEMaZLgg3 vl6Tr+E6QNedtE/ZvcE4icGDbJs2VIVDTEf+diXJPWb+9Y7alHnk094FJpHiMB8yHB k0IgYoHXbWjXuL52LUxpw6XNcHjBoQnu+FRe0O1rnPtkMCs7qrGWU32v+4YI3x85yB owyaD4mrdhvdnRmWFpvMB/Cu0uuuEFR0N3q8IvHuKrvhfKLfRoyq10Agw6xEzoyh6S KT+9/V34ciDmQ== Archived-At: Subject: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2015 19:54:26 -0000 I'm sorry for being so tardy in providing a review of this document. I just now went through it: * Section 2: Capture Device: says it converts audio and video. Should probably also mention text. MCC: I can't quite make sense of the this part: "... the Stream coming from the encoding of the composing Media Captures ...". I *think* the intent can be achieved by replacing that with "... the contained media captures ...". Spatial Information: s/generate/generates/, s/phisical/physical/ * Section 3: General: I'm not an xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting idiosyncracies that seem odd to me, though clearly simply editor choices. I will not mention those. It might be good for somebody who isn't an author but is an XML expert to review the schema for style. Or perhaps it can be run through an XML pretty-printer. In the following: The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a Media Provider and the streams that are requested by a Media Consumer given the Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]). s/requested/available to be requested/ Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the available policies? MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of one. Shouldn't multiple languages be allowed? MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to specify the available media types? PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this before, but I still find it disturbing that we have a complexType named "personType" that contains an element named "personType". I guess it is syntactically and semantically well defined, but it is certainly confusing to read the schema. I would expect to get confusion in the future. I suggest replacing personTypeType with personRoleType or personJobType or personDutyType, and then change the element name to match. (I recall there were reasons not to use Role.) SPATIAL INFORMATION TYPE: Syntactically this allows you to provide spatial information yet omit both the capturePoint and the captureArea. IIUC it is an error to specify neither. (Should have then specified non-spatially-defined.) Can the XML be structured to prevent this misuse? MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. How about "variable" and "dynamic"? OTHER CAPTURE TYPE: why doesn't this look exactly like TEXT CAPTURE TYPE? (It differs by omission of anyAttribute.) CAPTURE POINT TYPE: it still seems odd to me to call this a *point* when it actually can define a vector. How about "captureVector"? Or, since the part that makes it a vector is optional, maybe "captureOrigin". ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined encID. Presumably this is intended to refer to the "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingType. Is that correspondence specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to use the IDREF mechanism? (Does the idref only work in a single document, while this needs to work from a configure toward an advertisement?) * Section 10.1: It would be helpful to say that the captureID serves as the way the capture is referenced from CaptureEncodings created by the consumer in Configure messages. * Section 10.5.2: It would be helpful to note that the capture area has two "sides", and it implies which side is the "front". (The capture point must be on the side from which it is possible to view the left points as left of the right points, and the top points as above the bottom points.) * Section 10.8: This says "... captures coming from the same source." But I think it is possible for switching to include multiple sources concurrently. So I think that needs to be changed to "... same sources.". Also, in this section what is "MP"? I guess it means Media Provider? Either this should be added to the definitions, or it should be expanded. (Note that this is also used elsewhere.) * Section 10.16: It would be good to specify the semantics attaching to each value. I.e.: static: SHOULD not change for the duration of the CLUE session, across multiple advertisements. dynamic: MAY change in each new advertisement. Can be assumed to remain unchanged until there is a new advertisement. highly-dynamic: MAY change dynamically, even between advertisements. The value in an advertisement is simply a snapshot of the location at the time of the advertisement. * Section 21: While this may repeat the framework, I think this section should explain the the references in the captureEncoding are to captures and encodings defined in a separate XML document (an advertisement). * Section 22: What is "a drafty version" intended to mean??? Thanks, Paul From nobody Tue Jun 9 17:00:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF981A8ABF for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 16:59:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.812 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.812 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, J_CHICKENPOX_25=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_27=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XzF3ehv9c_ER for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 16:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C11E21A8AE1 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 16:59:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=12655; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1433894393; x=1435103993; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=X6KQwVGLL+6yhqg8zso+Pziw0JlXPnIxNpV++QcLioY=; b=doHRftSKb18gTAEcNIMijdsViU6ED2j1Vq0Kq4RbmKtKLXP2Ge0F4rrP FGaVK6a2gGNbZV4+2vzPELxIOFvHuL82g63FkANlIaowp+GPYWG095SM/ JbyqI/uo3gkdmQXvLg08j1SbQUtGJLT8OEHNcogX68YJ206QFadqDOCuv o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AdBQDtfHdV/5ldJa1cgxCBOcZUAgICgUM8EAEBAQEBAQGBCoQkAQEDOi0BIwEqFEImAQQbiCadLbQZAQEIAgEfkBiDT4EWBZM+hxWcBiRigSgcgVKCNYEBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,584,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="157970359" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Jun 2015 23:59:52 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com [173.37.183.83]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t59Nxqam002545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 23:59:52 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x07.cisco.com ([169.254.2.68]) by xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([173.37.183.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 18:59:52 -0500 From: "Rob Hansen (rohanse2)" To: CLUE Thread-Topic: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 Thread-Index: AdCjEFyIkjPliOpfSPiZUVrjASGdow== Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 23:59:51 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.61.192.218] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2015 23:59:59 -0000 I've also been tardy on this on. No major issues found - generally a solid = document. The two things that might prompt some discussion are repeated he= re: Section 10.2 We currently say that "The "mediaType" attribute is a mandatory attribute s= pecifying the media type of the capture ("audio", "video", "text",...)", an= d we have specific subsections for audio, video and text. However, for a nu= mber of elements, such as , that are in the generic section, w= hether they are mandatory, optional or not allowed are only defined for aud= io and video. I think their behaviour for text should be defined too (prett= y much always MUST NOT be used), and we should be explicit in section 14 th= at new media type extensions must also define how these elements are to be = used. Section 10.5.2. Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points ,= , , and , should we mandate that they actu= ally represent this, since otherwise someone could potentially put above while the far end might assume they are laid out as pe= r their names, or should we rename them to three or four generic points tha= t can be anything so long as they are coplanar? Main review is as follows, in order: Section 2. "...except for the "CLUE Participant" definition (which is still under disc= ussion)" - need to remove all in-progress text before completing WGLC The list of terms is mostly alphabetically ordered, but a few elements are = out of place "Media Captures belonging to the same Capture Scene View can be sent simult= aneously by the Media Provider." - Media Captures *not* belonging to the sa= me CSV can potentially also be sent simultaneously by the Media Provider; i= t's the simultaneous sets that defines simultaneity. I think the definition= works fine without this line, or it should be rewritten to make clear that= CSVs are intended (but not mandatory) sets of Captures. " CLUE Participant: This term is not imported from the framework terminolo= gy" - not sure we need to say that here (or if we do, should probably be af= ter we've explained what it is.) "for each encoding it is provided a set of parameters representing the enco= ding constraints" - grammatically this should be more like "each encoding p= rovides a set of parameters representing the encoding constraints". "For each group, it is provided a set of parameters representing the constr= aints to be applied" - as above, gramatically this should be more like "for= each group, a set of parameters represent the constraints to be applied" "Endpoint The logical point" - should have a colon after "Endpoint" "An endpoint consists of" - as a defined term, endpoint should probably be = capitalised "An MCU may include a Mixer." - Mixer isn't defined here; if we're going to= include this line we probably need to reference another document to say wh= at we mean by mixer (such as RFC 3550). "is used as a synonymous of Capture Encoding." - should be something like "= is used as a synonym of Capture Encoding." or "is used synonymously with Ca= pture Encoding." "(i.e., an Endpoint or a MCU)" - should be "an MCU" "(i.e., an Endpoint or a MCU)" - should be "an MCU" (repeated line) "or can appear alternatively over the time" - should be "or can appear alte= rnatively over time" "representing a phisical portion" - should be "representing a physical port= ion" Section 3. "further detailed in the following of this document." - should be something= like "further detailed in this document" or "further detailed later in thi= s document" Section 4. (and other) Various terms defined in the terminology section are used throughout the do= cument but are often not capitalised. "the list of one ore more media captures" - "ore" should be "or" Section 10. "According to the CLUE framework, a media capture is" - since pretty much e= verything in the document is initially defined in the framework, I think sa= ying "According to the CLUE framework" here is unnecessary; the paragraph w= orks fine without it. In this section, some optional elements don't define what properties are pr= esent if they are not included. We should either have a blanket statement (= optional elements that don't define what their absence means means that tha= t property is undefined) or add it for those elements. Section 10.2 We currently say that "The "mediaType" attribute is a mandatory attribute s= pecifying the media type of the capture ("audio", "video", "text",...)", an= d we have specific subsections for audio, video and text. However, for a nu= mber of later elements, such as , that are in the generic sect= ion, whether they are mandatory, optional or not allowed are only defined f= or audio and video; whether or not these can be used for anything else (eg,= text) is currently undefined. Their behaviour for text should be defined (= pretty much always MUST NOT be used), and we should be explicit in section = 14 that extensions must also define what to do for those elements. Section 10.3. I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section that defines t= he capture scene ID that captureSceneIDREF is referencing Section 10.4. Similarly, I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section tha= t defines the encoding group ID that encGroupIDREF is referencing Section 10.5. To avert questions, we should probably reference section 15.4 ( in t= he capture scene) here so that people reading in order know that the units = of these corrdinates are defined elsewhere. Section 10.5.2. Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points ,= , , and , should we mandate that they actu= ally represent this, since otherwise someone could potentially put above while the far end might assume they are laid out as pe= r their names, or should we rename them to three or four generic points tha= t can be anything so long as they are coplanar? Section 10.7. "If a media capture is a MCC, then it can show in its XML data model repres= entation the element." - should be "an MCC" and I think should be= "then it MAY show" to be normative. Section 10.8. "MP" is used here and in a few later sections without being defined as an a= bbreviation of the Media Provider anywhere. Section 10.10. Beyond saying that it's a string in the schema, we never define what values= can take; assuming we don't plan to provide a list we should say = this is a free text field, and/or that it may have values agreed between im= plementations or defined in later documents. Section 10.11. "When the "exactNumber" attribute is set to "1"" - 'exactNumber' is defined= in the schema as a boolean, so should this be 'true', not 1? Also, I think maxCaptures should be a positiveInteger, not an unsignedInt; = having 0 as a maxCaptures doesn't make any sense. Finally, since this section is a little complicated I think an example or t= wo may be helpful. Something like "For instance, an audio MCC "1" means that a Media Stream from the MCC will only able con= tain audio from a single one of its constituent captures at a time. However= , 4 would mean that the Med= ia Stream received from the MCC will always contain a mix of audio from exa= ctly four of its constituent captures." Section 10.13. "The same element is exploited to describe, besides media captures, capture= scenes and capture scene views, as it is included in their XML representat= ion." - afraid I'm unable to follow exactly what you're saying here. "As it can be seen" - should be something like "As can be seen". Section 10.14. "When media captures are marked with a "0" priority value, it means that th= ey are "not subject to priority"." - "not subject to priority" probably sho= uldn't be in quotes unless it's something defined elsewhere, and should pro= bably be expanded on a bit. Section 10.16. "static", "dynamic" and "highly dynamic" shoudl probably be in quotes, and = it would be good to have a short portion explaining what each ones means Section 10.17. I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section that defines = the media capture ID that relatedTo is referencing Section 10.20. It's a minor detail, but should we say that the 'lang' attribute MUST NOT b= e used if is "false" (since it makes no sense to define the = language of nonexistant text)? Section 15.4. ""unknown" - the scale is not necessarily millimeters" - can we say "the sc= ale is undefined" here? Section 16.1. "defined as a sequence of ,each containing the" - space neede= d after comma. And " should potentially be "s",= though I'm not sure how best to pluralise XML elements. Section 17.1. "expressed in bit per second" - should be "bits per second". Section 17.2. has type "xs:IDREF"; should this not be "xs:ID"; I'd consider the C= LUE ID to be the primary ID and SDP to reference it, but even if it were th= e other way around xs:IDREF has to refer to another *XML* element, does it = not; it can't refer to something in SDP? It would also be useful to refer t= o the signalling document here to let people know what the ID association w= ill be with. Section 18. "Besides the identifiers of the captures ( elements), al= so the identifiers of capture scene views and of capture scene can be explo= ited, as shortcuts ( and elements)." - = I think this section needs to be expanded a bit to be clearer. Should proba= bly mention that a capture may be included more than once (due to being spe= cified by various formats) and that this has no effect different to it only= appearing once. Section 18.1. "When only capture scene identifiers are listed within a simultaneous set, = the media type attribute MUST be used in order to determine which media cap= tures can be simultaneously sent together." - This paragraph is repeated in= Section 18.2., which is the appropriate place for it; this version should = be removed. Section 20.1.1. "Such identifier can be used" - I think this should be "This identifier" or= "such an identifier". Section 20.1.3. ""presenter", "timekeeper","attendee", "minute taker", "translator", "chair= man", "vice-chairman"." - there should be a space after '"timekeeper",' "A participant can play more than one conference roles." - should be "role"= . Section 21. The capture encoding contains "captureID"s and "encodingID"s defined as xs:= strings. Should these not be "captureIDREF" and "encIDREF" and be defined a= s xs:IDREFs, referencing the corresponding and in the c= apture and encoding respectively? Section 21.3. " i.e., it contains The total number of media captures listed in the must be lower than or equal to the value carried within the <= maxCaptures> attribute of the MCC." - "it contains" should be removed. I th= ink the "i.e., " is probably unnecessary too; if it is left as-is the "The"= should be made lower case. Section 22. This should presumably be updated to match the actual protocol doc use of <= advertisement> and ? =20 Section 24. "identified in the CLUE framework as the needed one in order to enable" - "= the needed one" should be something like "necessary" MC is used here for the first time but is never defined to be an acronym fo= r Media Consumer. "information incapsulated in CLUE" - "incapsulated" should be "encapsulated= " Section 25.3. "This section registers the " "application/clue_info+xml"" MIME type." - no= t sure if the double quotes is intentional; even if so, presumably having a= space on one side but not the other is not. "mechanisms such as those described in Section Security are required to pro= tect the data" - "Section Security" should be replaced with an autonumbered= section reference. Section 26. "it is provided the XML representation of an endpoint-style Media Provider'= s offer." - "it is provided" should be "this provides" or similar. "where the central one is also able of capturing a zoomed-out view" - "able= of" should be "able to". Rob From nobody Tue Jun 9 19:57:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9104D1A0173 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 19:57:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.165 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xM7We6oCBM3z for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 19:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 768891A0111 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2015 19:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-15v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.111]) by resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id eSxZ1q0062Qkjl901SxpuG; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 02:57:49 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.151]) by resomta-ch2-15v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id eSxp1q0043Ge9ey01SxpPa; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 02:57:49 +0000 Message-ID: <5577A7AC.2090002@alum.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2015 22:57:48 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clue@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1433905069; bh=n0sp275zb1rdXYuF4SmEmvAYFJA5WciXMQxURF2uRew=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=Ezp/ueGklj7hVdA7aeWeZTrmaqbfL6CQXeCANOr1oO8PFger8mMScsm+YYIzw3Coo T1O9O1lz7Bytq2xnt2fQnzMJV8BhKDnlSpZcecMH57tb44wXu1LGaOudslmxRDHCgz hZFOTpZahbTsoDV64la7Bx+G3JWIlb5kZdWBWPVJjbtRohMS68EkzCn94mFifCbmuS GQFZEUs101nAASH8Z9k9WjeBsg8lGlY3YdjTGmMwUoY0D6BxapiFkxn/ZjOoq/T+4b DsO5XMzqef4KKnPdpFO1n1BXvuDhf8l1rl/7DeEtwK/pmLSIQRgqGdncV6Hv++1MlS cs2FjFlaOYOCA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 02:57:51 -0000 These all seem like good points. (Some overlap with mine, but not fully.) I have a comment on one point: On 6/9/15 7:59 PM, Rob Hansen (rohanse2) wrote: > Section 10.5.2. > Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points , , , and , should we mandate that they actually represent this, since otherwise someone could potentially put above while the far end might assume they are laid out as per their names, or should we rename them to three or four generic points that can be anything so long as they are coplanar? It would be good to say more, but it is tricky. This can't determined based on the scene coordinate system, because the plane can be oriented in ways where that won't work. (E.g. all four points have the same x-coordinate - the plane is perpendicular to the "front" of the room.) I think it has to be defined wrt the the point of capture and axis of capture. If the point of capture isn't specified, then the arrangement of these can be used to approximate an axis of capture (but not point of capture). Given all that, I think there are some further constraints on how the coordinates are arranged, but it makes my head hurt to think about how to define that. Thanks, Paul From nobody Wed Jun 10 01:20:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825741ACD53 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:20:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_25=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_27=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IA89kK617hX3 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x229.google.com (mail-ob0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E91C51ACD50 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbqz1 with SMTP id qz1so29895495obb.3 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:20:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=dbQhMx4n0CU3nFi+CTbeVUt+h+DA+O2ZpHW3WYQWrAw=; b=NYejeEZ324YIvQ+TFALsdvwEgbySIfjpfT51kFOzwweib/H2M6HLDFWjmLmHCK7D69 MP/dLJFLT7841aHYhQ3aSRx3rYDBJ23qF46T3y8UMbKM9LpmVCowVUrG13m5L2UDVEyI J3BUmtDk7EBjk5DJ4HpvZy8yWWOYHEE1uJs0ZD1lnpwQhptKiJ6ZxJ5vY6utPTgQ9hYM Qj+ZYiZi0vQxuyRd2Dz4CY4MRVdFSJT/W/F93VVglJlinIemgQIwDtOriQHxI1wDju5+ /SMd7gXFOU3YH3aGjzu8cotKAY+sMKi7CuAojb4DsaxJprCn2fiaFdDCXgkGmyOfuTOK SXMg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.78.168 with SMTP id c8mr1764758oex.67.1433924443419; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.59.197 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 01:20:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 04:20:43 -0400 Message-ID: From: Daniel Burnett To: "Rob Hansen (rohanse2)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111d8a815b9660518258dc8 Archived-At: Cc: CLUE Subject: Re: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 08:20:48 -0000 --089e0111d8a815b9660518258dc8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Yes, solid document. Everything of substance that I found Rob already lists above, with the exception of the following small wording tweaks in section 26: 2nd paragraph: also able of -> also capable of 3rd paragraph: such cameras -> the cameras 3rd paragraph: capture about -> capture of 4th paragraph: maybe 'conference roles details' -> 'conference role details'? -- dan On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Rob Hansen (rohanse2) wrote: > I've also been tardy on this on. No major issues found - generally a solid > document. The two things that might prompt some discussion are repeated > here: > > Section 10.2 > We currently say that "The "mediaType" attribute is a mandatory attribute > specifying the media type of the capture ("audio", "video", "text",...)", > and we have specific subsections for audio, video and text. However, for a > number of elements, such as , that are in the generic section, > whether they are mandatory, optional or not allowed are only defined for > audio and video. I think their behaviour for text should be defined too > (pretty much always MUST NOT be used), and we should be explicit in section > 14 that new media type extensions must also define how these elements are > to be used. > > Section 10.5.2. > Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points > , , , and , should we mandate > that they actually represent this, since otherwise someone could > potentially put above while the far end might assume > they are laid out as per their names, or should we rename them to three or > four generic points that can be anything so long as they are coplanar? > > Main review is as follows, in order: > > Section 2. > "...except for the "CLUE Participant" definition (which is still under > discussion)" - need to remove all in-progress text before completing WGLC > > The list of terms is mostly alphabetically ordered, but a few elements are > out of place > > "Media Captures belonging to the same Capture Scene View can be sent > simultaneously by the Media Provider." - Media Captures *not* belonging to > the same CSV can potentially also be sent simultaneously by the Media > Provider; it's the simultaneous sets that defines simultaneity. I think the > definition works fine without this line, or it should be rewritten to make > clear that CSVs are intended (but not mandatory) sets of Captures. > > " CLUE Participant: This term is not imported from the framework > terminology" - not sure we need to say that here (or if we do, should > probably be after we've explained what it is.) > > "for each encoding it is provided a set of parameters representing the > encoding constraints" - grammatically this should be more like "each > encoding provides a set of parameters representing the encoding > constraints". > > "For each group, it is provided a set of parameters representing the > constraints to be applied" - as above, gramatically this should be more > like "for each group, a set of parameters represent the constraints to be > applied" > > "Endpoint The logical point" - should have a colon after "Endpoint" > > "An endpoint consists of" - as a defined term, endpoint should probably be > capitalised > > "An MCU may include a Mixer." - Mixer isn't defined here; if we're going > to include this line we probably need to reference another document to say > what we mean by mixer (such as RFC 3550). > > "is used as a synonymous of Capture Encoding." - should be something like > "is used as a synonym of Capture Encoding." or "is used synonymously with > Capture Encoding." > > "(i.e., an Endpoint or a MCU)" - should be "an MCU" > > "(i.e., an Endpoint or a MCU)" - should be "an MCU" (repeated line) > > "or can appear alternatively over the time" - should be "or can appear > alternatively over time" > > "representing a phisical portion" - should be "representing a physical > portion" > > Section 3. > "further detailed in the following of this document." - should be > something like "further detailed in this document" or "further detailed > later in this document" > > Section 4. (and other) > Various terms defined in the terminology section are used throughout the > document but are often not capitalised. > > "the list of one ore more media captures" - "ore" should be "or" > > Section 10. > "According to the CLUE framework, a media capture is" - since pretty much > everything in the document is initially defined in the framework, I think > saying "According to the CLUE framework" here is unnecessary; the paragraph > works fine without it. > > In this section, some optional elements don't define what properties are > present if they are not included. We should either have a blanket statement > (optional elements that don't define what their absence means means that > that property is undefined) or add it for those elements. > > Section 10.2 > We currently say that "The "mediaType" attribute is a mandatory attribute > specifying the media type of the capture ("audio", "video", "text",...)", > and we have specific subsections for audio, video and text. However, for a > number of later elements, such as , that are in the generic > section, whether they are mandatory, optional or not allowed are only > defined for audio and video; whether or not these can be used for anything > else (eg, text) is currently undefined. Their behaviour for text should be > defined (pretty much always MUST NOT be used), and we should be explicit in > section 14 that extensions must also define what to do for those elements. > > Section 10.3. > I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section that defines > the capture scene ID that captureSceneIDREF is referencing > > Section 10.4. > Similarly, I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section > that defines the encoding group ID that encGroupIDREF is referencing > > Section 10.5. > To avert questions, we should probably reference section 15.4 ( in > the capture scene) here so that people reading in order know that the units > of these corrdinates are defined elsewhere. > > Section 10.5.2. > Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points > , , , and , should we mandate > that they actually represent this, since otherwise someone could > potentially put above while the far end might assume > they are laid out as per their names, or should we rename them to three or > four generic points that can be anything so long as they are coplanar? > > Section 10.7. > "If a media capture is a MCC, then it can show in its XML data model > representation the element." - should be "an MCC" and I think > should be "then it MAY show" to be normative. > > Section 10.8. > "MP" is used here and in a few later sections without being defined as an > abbreviation of the Media Provider anywhere. > > Section 10.10. > Beyond saying that it's a string in the schema, we never define what > values can take; assuming we don't plan to provide a list we > should say this is a free text field, and/or that it may have values agreed > between implementations or defined in later documents. > > Section 10.11. > "When the "exactNumber" attribute is set to "1"" - 'exactNumber' is > defined in the schema as a boolean, so should this be 'true', not 1? > > Also, I think maxCaptures should be a positiveInteger, not an unsignedInt; > having 0 as a maxCaptures doesn't make any sense. > > Finally, since this section is a little complicated I think an example or > two may be helpful. Something like "For instance, an audio MCC > "1" means that a Media Stream from the MCC will > only able contain audio from a single one of its constituent captures at a > time. However, 4 would mean > that the Media Stream received from the MCC will always contain a mix of > audio from exactly four of its constituent captures." > > Section 10.13. > "The same element is exploited to describe, besides media captures, > capture scenes and capture scene views, as it is included in their XML > representation." - afraid I'm unable to follow exactly what you're saying > here. > > "As it can be seen" - should be something like "As can be seen". > > Section 10.14. > "When media captures are marked with a "0" priority value, it means that > they are "not subject to priority"." - "not subject to priority" probably > shouldn't be in quotes unless it's something defined elsewhere, and should > probably be expanded on a bit. > > Section 10.16. > "static", "dynamic" and "highly dynamic" shoudl probably be in quotes, and > it would be good to have a short portion explaining what each ones means > > Section 10.17. > I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section that defines > the media capture ID that relatedTo is referencing > > Section 10.20. > It's a minor detail, but should we say that the 'lang' attribute MUST NOT > be used if is "false" (since it makes no sense to define the > language of nonexistant text)? > > Section 15.4. > ""unknown" - the scale is not necessarily millimeters" - can we say "the > scale is undefined" here? > > Section 16.1. > "defined as a sequence of ,each containing the" - space > needed after comma. And " should potentially be > "s", though I'm not sure how best to pluralise XML elements. > > Section 17.1. > "expressed in bit per second" - should be "bits per second". > > Section 17.2. > has type "xs:IDREF"; should this not be "xs:ID"; I'd consider the > CLUE ID to be the primary ID and SDP to reference it, but even if it were > the other way around xs:IDREF has to refer to another *XML* element, does > it not; it can't refer to something in SDP? It would also be useful to > refer to the signalling document here to let people know what the ID > association will be with. > > Section 18. > "Besides the identifiers of the captures ( elements), > also the identifiers of capture scene views and of capture scene can be > exploited, as shortcuts ( and > elements)." - I think this section needs to be expanded a bit to be > clearer. Should probably mention that a capture may be included more than > once (due to being specified by various formats) and that this has no > effect different to it only appearing once. > > Section 18.1. > "When only capture scene identifiers are listed within a simultaneous set, > the media type attribute MUST be used in order to determine which media > captures can be simultaneously sent together." - This paragraph is repeated > in Section 18.2., which is the appropriate place for it; this version > should be removed. > > Section 20.1.1. > "Such identifier can be used" - I think this should be "This identifier" > or "such an identifier". > > Section 20.1.3. > ""presenter", "timekeeper","attendee", "minute taker", "translator", > "chairman", "vice-chairman"." - there should be a space after > '"timekeeper",' > > "A participant can play more than one conference roles." - should be > "role". > > Section 21. > The capture encoding contains "captureID"s and "encodingID"s defined as > xs:strings. Should these not be "captureIDREF" and "encIDREF" and be > defined as xs:IDREFs, referencing the corresponding and > in the capture and encoding respectively? > > Section 21.3. > " i.e., it contains The total number of media captures listed in the > must be lower than or equal to the value carried within > the attribute of the MCC." - "it contains" should be removed. > I think the "i.e., " is probably unnecessary too; if it is left as-is the > "The" should be made lower case. > > Section 22. > This should presumably be updated to match the actual protocol doc use of > and ? > > Section 24. > "identified in the CLUE framework as the needed one in order to enable" - > "the needed one" should be something like "necessary" > > MC is used here for the first time but is never defined to be an acronym > for Media Consumer. > > "information incapsulated in CLUE" - "incapsulated" should be > "encapsulated" > > Section 25.3. > "This section registers the " "application/clue_info+xml"" MIME type." - > not sure if the double quotes is intentional; even if so, presumably having > a space on one side but not the other is not. > > "mechanisms such as those described in Section Security are required to > protect the data" - "Section Security" should be replaced with an > autonumbered section reference. > > Section 26. > "it is provided the XML representation of an endpoint-style Media > Provider's offer." - "it is provided" should be "this provides" or similar. > > "where the central one is also able of capturing a zoomed-out view" - > "able of" should be "able to". > > > Rob > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > --089e0111d8a815b9660518258dc8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, solid document.=C2=A0 Everything of substance that I = found Rob already lists above, with the exception of the following small wo= rding tweaks in section 26:

2nd paragraph:=C2=A0 also able of -> also capable of

3rd paragraph:=C2=A0 such cameras -> the cameras

3rd paragraph:=C2=A0 capture about -> capture of

4th paragraph:=C2=A0 maybe 'conference roles details'= -> 'conference role details'?


-- dan


On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Rob Hansen (rohanse2) <rohans= e2@cisco.com> wrote:
I'= ve also been tardy on this on. No major issues found - generally a solid do= cument.=C2=A0 The two things that might prompt some discussion are repeated= here:

=C2=A0 Section 10.2
We currently say that "The "mediaType" attribute is a mandat= ory attribute specifying the media type of the capture ("audio", = "video", "text",...)", and we have specific subsec= tions for audio, video and text. However, for a number of elements, such as= <captureArea>, that are in the generic section, whether they are man= datory, optional or not allowed are only defined for audio and video. I thi= nk their behaviour for text should be defined too (pretty much always MUST = NOT be used), and we should be explicit in section 14 that new media type e= xtensions must also define how these elements are to be used.

=C2=A0 Section 10.5.2.
Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points <bottomLef= t>, <bottomRight>, <topLeft>, and <topRight>, should w= e mandate that they actually represent this, since otherwise someone could = potentially put <bottomLeft> above <topLeft> while the far end = might assume they are laid out as per their names, or should we rename them= to three or four generic points that can be anything so long as they are c= oplanar?

Main review is as follows, in order:

=C2=A0 Section 2.
"...except for the "CLUE Participant" definition (which is s= till under discussion)" - need to remove all in-progress text before c= ompleting WGLC

The list of terms is mostly alphabetically ordered, but a few elements are = out of place

"Media Captures belonging to the same Capture Scene View can be sent s= imultaneously by the Media Provider." - Media Captures *not* belonging= to the same CSV can potentially also be sent simultaneously by the Media P= rovider; it's the simultaneous sets that defines simultaneity. I think = the definition works fine without this line, or it should be rewritten to m= ake clear that CSVs are intended (but not mandatory) sets of Captures.

" CLUE Participant:=C2=A0 This term is not imported from the framework= terminology" - not sure we need to say that here (or if we do, should= probably be after we've explained what it is.)

"for each encoding it is provided a set of parameters representing the= encoding constraints" - grammatically this should be more like "= each encoding provides a set of parameters representing the encoding constr= aints".

"For each group, it is provided a set of parameters representing the c= onstraints to be applied" - as above, gramatically this should be more= like "for each group, a set of parameters represent the constraints t= o be applied"

"Endpoint=C2=A0 The logical point" - should have a colon after &q= uot;Endpoint"

"An endpoint consists of" - as a defined term, endpoint should pr= obably be capitalised

"An MCU may include a Mixer." - Mixer isn't defined here; if = we're going to include this line we probably need to reference another = document to say what we mean by mixer (such as RFC 3550).

"is used as a synonymous of Capture Encoding." - should be someth= ing like "is used as a synonym of Capture Encoding." or "is = used synonymously with Capture Encoding."

"(i.e., an Endpoint or a MCU)" - should be "an MCU"

"(i.e., an Endpoint or a MCU)" - should be "an MCU" (re= peated line)

"or can appear alternatively over the time" - should be "or = can appear alternatively over time"

"representing a phisical portion" - should be "representing = a physical portion"

=C2=A0 Section 3.
"further detailed in the following of this document." - should be= something like "further detailed in this document" or "furt= her detailed later in this document"

=C2=A0 Section 4. (and other)
Various terms defined in the terminology section are used throughout the do= cument but are often not capitalised.

"the list of one ore more media captures" - "ore" shoul= d be "or"

=C2=A0 Section 10.
"According to the CLUE framework, a media capture is" - since pre= tty much everything in the document is initially defined in the framework, = I think saying "According to the CLUE framework" here is unnecess= ary; the paragraph works fine without it.

In this section, some optional elements don't define what properties ar= e present if they are not included. We should either have a blanket stateme= nt (optional elements that don't define what their absence means means = that that property is undefined) or add it for those elements.

=C2=A0 Section 10.2
We currently say that "The "mediaType" attribute is a mandat= ory attribute specifying the media type of the capture ("audio", = "video", "text",...)", and we have specific subsec= tions for audio, video and text. However, for a number of later elements, s= uch as <captureArea>, that are in the generic section, whether they a= re mandatory, optional or not allowed are only defined for audio and video;= whether or not these can be used for anything else (eg, text) is currently= undefined. Their behaviour for text should be defined (pretty much always = MUST NOT be used), and we should be explicit in section 14 that extensions = must also define what to do for those elements.

=C2=A0 Section 10.3.
I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section that defines t= he capture scene ID that captureSceneIDREF is referencing

=C2=A0 Section 10.4.
Similarly, I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section tha= t defines the encoding group ID that encGroupIDREF is referencing

=C2=A0 Section 10.5.
To avert questions, we should probably reference section 15.4 (<scale>= ; in the capture scene) here so that people reading in order know that the = units of these corrdinates are defined elsewhere.

=C2=A0 Section 10.5.2.
Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points <bottomLef= t>, <bottomRight>, <topLeft>, and <topRight>, should w= e mandate that they actually represent this, since otherwise someone could = potentially put <bottomLeft> above <topLeft> while the far end = might assume they are laid out as per their names, or should we rename them= to three or four generic points that can be anything so long as they are c= oplanar?

=C2=A0 Section 10.7.
"If a media capture is a MCC, then it can show in its XML data model r= epresentation the <content> element." - should be "an MCC&q= uot; and I think should be "then it MAY show" to be normative.
=C2=A0 Section 10.8.
"MP" is used here and in a few later sections without being defin= ed as an abbreviation of the Media Provider anywhere.

=C2=A0 Section 10.10.
Beyond saying that it's a string in the schema, we never define what va= lues <policy> can take; assuming we don't plan to provide a list = we should say this is a free text field, and/or that it may have values agr= eed between implementations or defined in later documents.

=C2=A0 Section 10.11.
"When the "exactNumber" attribute is set to "1"&qu= ot; - 'exactNumber' is defined in the schema as a boolean, so shoul= d this be 'true', not 1?

Also, I think maxCaptures should be a positiveInteger, not an unsignedInt; = having 0 as a maxCaptures doesn't make any sense.

Finally, since this section is a little complicated I think an example or t= wo may be helpful. Something like "For instance, an audio MCC "&l= t;maxCaptures>1</maxCaptures>" means that a Media Stream from= the MCC will only able contain audio from a single one of its constituent = captures at a time. However, <maxCaptures exactNumber=3D"true"= >4</maxCaptures> would mean that the Media Stream received from th= e MCC will always contain a mix of audio from exactly four of its constitue= nt captures."

=C2=A0 Section 10.13.
"The same element is exploited to describe, besides media captures, ca= pture scenes and capture scene views, as it is included in their XML repres= entation." - afraid I'm unable to follow exactly what you're s= aying here.

"As it can be seen" - should be something like "As can be se= en".

=C2=A0 Section 10.14.
"When media captures are marked with a "0" priority value, i= t means that they are "not subject to priority"." - "no= t subject to priority" probably shouldn't be in quotes unless it&#= 39;s something defined elsewhere, and should probably be expanded on a bit.=

=C2=A0 Section 10.16.
"static", "dynamic" and "highly dynamic" shou= dl probably be in quotes, and it would be good to have a short portion expl= aining what each ones means

=C2=A0 Section 10.17.
=C2=A0I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section that def= ines the media capture ID that relatedTo is referencing

=C2=A0 Section 10.20.
It's a minor detail, but should we say that the 'lang' attribut= e MUST NOT be used if <embeddedText> is "false" (since it m= akes no sense to define the language of nonexistant text)?

=C2=A0 Section 15.4.
""unknown" - the scale is not necessarily millimeters" = - can we say "the scale is undefined" here?

=C2=A0 Section 16.1.
"defined as a sequence of <captureIDREF>,each containing the&quo= t; - space needed after comma. And "<captureIDREF> should potent= ially be "<captureIDREF>s", though I'm not sure how bes= t to pluralise XML elements.

=C2=A0 Section 17.1.
"expressed in bit per second" - should be "bits per second&q= uot;.

=C2=A0 Section 17.2.
<encID> has type "xs:IDREF"; should this not be "xs:ID= "; I'd consider the CLUE ID to be the primary ID and SDP to refere= nce it, but even if it were the other way around xs:IDREF has to refer to a= nother *XML* element, does it not; it can't refer to something in SDP? = It would also be useful to refer to the signalling document here to let peo= ple know what the ID association will be with.

=C2=A0 Section 18.
"Besides the identifiers of the captures (<mediaCaptureIDREF> el= ements), also the identifiers of capture scene views and of capture scene c= an be exploited, as shortcuts (<sceneViewIDREF> and <captureSceneI= DREF> elements)." - I think this section needs to be expanded a bit= to be clearer. Should probably mention that a capture may be included more= than once (due to being specified by various formats) and that this has no= effect different to it only appearing once.

=C2=A0 Section 18.1.
"When only capture scene identifiers are listed within a simultaneous = set, the media type attribute MUST be used in order to determine which medi= a captures can be simultaneously sent together." - This paragraph is r= epeated in Section 18.2., which is the appropriate place for it; this versi= on should be removed.

=C2=A0 Section 20.1.1.
"Such identifier can be used" - I think this should be "This= identifier" or "such an identifier".

Section 20.1.3.
""presenter", "timekeeper","attendee", &= quot;minute taker", "translator", "chairman", &quo= t;vice-chairman"." - there should be a space after '"tim= ekeeper",'

"A participant can play more than one conference roles." - should= be "role".

=C2=A0 Section 21.
The capture encoding contains "captureID"s and "encodingID&q= uot;s defined as xs:strings. Should these not be "captureIDREF" a= nd "encIDREF" and be defined as xs:IDREFs, referencing the corres= ponding <captureID> and <encID> in the capture and encoding res= pectively?

=C2=A0 Section 21.3.
" i.e., it contains The total number of media captures listed in the &= lt;configuredContent> must be lower than or equal to the value carried w= ithin the <maxCaptures> attribute of the MCC." - "it contai= ns" should be removed. I think the "i.e., " is probably unne= cessary too; if it is left as-is the "The" should be made lower c= ase.

=C2=A0 Section 22.
This should presumably be updated to match the actual protocol doc use of &= lt;advertisement> and=C2=A0 <configure>?

=C2=A0 Section 24.
"identified in the CLUE framework as the needed one in order to enable= " - "the needed one" should be something like "necessar= y"

MC is used here for the first time but is never defined to be an acronym fo= r Media Consumer.

"information incapsulated in CLUE" - "incapsulated" sho= uld be "encapsulated"

=C2=A0 Section 25.3.
"This section registers the " "application/clue_info+xml&quo= t;" MIME type." - not sure if the double quotes is intentional; e= ven if so, presumably having a space on one side but not the other is not.<= br>
"mechanisms such as those described in Section Security are required t= o protect the data" - "Section Security" should be replaced = with an autonumbered section reference.

=C2=A0 Section 26.
"it is provided the XML representation of an endpoint-style Media Prov= ider's offer." - "it is provided" should be "this p= rovides" or similar.

"where the central one is also able of capturing a zoomed-out view&quo= t; - "able of" should be "able to".


Rob

_______________________________________________
clue mailing list
clue@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue

--089e0111d8a815b9660518258dc8-- From nobody Wed Jun 10 04:39:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 089051ACEC6 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 04:39:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g5M0VmAXv9hv for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 04:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 183841ACED0 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 04:39:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2038; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1433936387; x=1435145987; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QSD8M6xB5mBOV4Uj6dvHRZIKTeSXZIkspc+xmbZcuHQ=; b=SWfxz27Kjb2u/0lhf3a22HUYhS1nu/XrAmAIPQBLB4YShb7WNKWSKZS8 LJfgCysHR93SMtQX8k30XFyt/o2w4SCXQujeTu/xbAlgNI0cT7v0KA2JK lrJL20Wki3c9QJF5iN0RWjflz2jiaY5lmw0GiPxUMZNXIbSaSIfCQsYWG g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DSCABvIXhV/xbLJq1cg2RfrFIBAQEBAQEFAYEEAZEKgTgfCoV6AoF5EwEBAQEBAQGBCoQjAQEBAwEBATU2ChELGAkWDwkDAgECARUwEwYCAQGIKg3QIQEBAQEBBQEBAQEaBIYZhSqFDRaEFwEEnwCIEI9rJGKBKByBUz0xgkcBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,587,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="520449600" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Jun 2015 11:39:45 +0000 Received: from [10.47.200.89] ([10.47.200.89]) (authenticated bits=0) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t5ABdirr021655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 11:39:45 GMT Message-ID: <55782200.3040701@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:39:44 +0100 From: Robert Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clue@ietf.org References: <5577A7AC.2090002@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <5577A7AC.2090002@alum.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: rohanse2 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 11:39:49 -0000 Rather than try and force the coordinates to match the semantic meanings of , , etc, is there a reason we can't just change use , and ; then the only constraint we have to have is that none of those points may match each other or the point of capture - once we have more than three we have to constrain them to be coplanar, and once we label them as meaningful we have to apply those constraints to. Rob On 10/06/15 03:57, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > These all seem like good points. (Some overlap with mine, but not > fully.) I have a comment on one point: > > On 6/9/15 7:59 PM, Rob Hansen (rohanse2) wrote: > >> Section 10.5.2. >> Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points >> , , , and , should we >> mandate that they actually represent this, since otherwise someone >> could potentially put above while the far end >> might assume they are laid out as per their names, or should we >> rename them to three or four generic points that can be anything so >> long as they are coplanar? > > It would be good to say more, but it is tricky. This can't determined > based on the scene coordinate system, because the plane can be > oriented in ways where that won't work. (E.g. all four points have the > same x-coordinate - the plane is perpendicular to the "front" of the > room.) > > I think it has to be defined wrt the the point of capture and axis of > capture. If the point of capture isn't specified, then the arrangement > of these can be used to approximate an axis of capture (but not point > of capture). Given all that, I think there are some further > constraints on how the coordinates are arranged, but it makes my head > hurt to think about how to define that. > > Thanks, > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue From nobody Wed Jun 10 06:30:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E581B29F0 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 06:30:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZwEdX2m68Zkr for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 06:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5B5E1B29E1 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 06:30:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2457; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1433943005; x=1435152605; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dw1gkIp2hsOjupSsSb9lrgFDj/Dc83m9kXAsJxGLQHQ=; b=aWTD9BgC1qI0rPaPTZq1LjG9g7qT/NNZ18xSh4YYzQ6FaMP3sDC3MsSG 0z/WDPDrqj5heIP+tVuM4xPrHLL9L5GSGrNycyXGSYIDCcVY0R37GxXkD KokcwZltbwEAdNXfwsN7B4tKGFOZZnZCEfsVJU7n/mJkMjgIXinM14nfP s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DWCAAvO3hV/xbLJq1cg2Rfq3IBAQEBAQEFAYEEAZJCHwqFegKCAQEBAQEBAYELhCMBAQEDAQEBNTYKEQsYCRYPCQMCAQIBFTATBgIBAYgqDdBoAQEBAQEFAQEBARoEhhmFKoUNFoQXAQSfAIgQj2skYoEoHIFTPTGCRwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,587,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="514047757" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Jun 2015 13:30:03 +0000 Received: from [10.47.200.89] ([10.47.200.89]) (authenticated bits=0) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t5ADU3Tl011454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:30:03 GMT Message-ID: <55783BDB.6070306@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:30:03 +0100 From: Robert Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clue@ietf.org References: <5577A7AC.2090002@alum.mit.edu> <55782200.3040701@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <55782200.3040701@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: rohanse2 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:30:08 -0000 Sorry, this was me being stupid - forgot that we're describing the actual area of capture and not just the plane of interest, so we do need to actually define the corners. Rob On 10/06/15 12:39, Robert Hansen wrote: > Rather than try and force the coordinates to match the semantic > meanings of , , etc, is there a reason we > can't just change use , and ; then the only > constraint we have to have is that none of those points may match each > other or the point of capture - once we have more than three we have > to constrain them to be coplanar, and once we label them as meaningful > we have to apply those constraints to. > > Rob > > On 10/06/15 03:57, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> These all seem like good points. (Some overlap with mine, but not >> fully.) I have a comment on one point: >> >> On 6/9/15 7:59 PM, Rob Hansen (rohanse2) wrote: >> >>> Section 10.5.2. >>> Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points >>> , , , and , should we >>> mandate that they actually represent this, since otherwise someone >>> could potentially put above while the far end >>> might assume they are laid out as per their names, or should we >>> rename them to three or four generic points that can be anything so >>> long as they are coplanar? >> >> It would be good to say more, but it is tricky. This can't determined >> based on the scene coordinate system, because the plane can be >> oriented in ways where that won't work. (E.g. all four points have >> the same x-coordinate - the plane is perpendicular to the "front" of >> the room.) >> >> I think it has to be defined wrt the the point of capture and axis of >> capture. If the point of capture isn't specified, then the >> arrangement of these can be used to approximate an axis of capture >> (but not point of capture). Given all that, I think there are some >> further constraints on how the coordinates are arranged, but it makes >> my head hurt to think about how to define that. >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >> _______________________________________________ >> clue mailing list >> clue@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue From nobody Wed Jun 10 10:29:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE89E1A92AB for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:29:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O8EX5z7k_mpH for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x236.google.com (mail-wi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DA081A8871 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wigg3 with SMTP id g3so55879330wig.1 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:29:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :thread-index:content-language; bh=YSBvABYfuGqpvX1yVt6K5+GWdRQ23PU5of146gmOjJI=; b=zpM9KFqBk9UyWP+zPG6Ov4ytighOKfpYUWkoKRitAWaGqBTL2+lyb9zv8xus1dhFj4 7j3WMD/YwUMzgnKC2Us6cxYxntt0Mn0xQXpALo0cFjAsQ+009ISTpuYFLpe7QPhFGDxF G0JZR1Nl4j8wyIe+er78qOrr+AMZVQHRxCxshBEToMTMwX1c4J5FbaZ6gqZNoUYPZDNs kRwJ6365zY6+hOPFeqzjda0Swv1KvT2Kc8bQxdXf6uJ6XpBcXUFdgYgSGW2om7o+3/xv NKhfr9pl/+BJBa4lixa+i1Nxm0lxgoy9yaW6KLR9U+rkaUCQWJNZFH3pNchfiLxB2Lsx 6IlA== X-Received: by 10.181.13.199 with SMTP id fa7mr10731591wid.38.1433957350873; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE ([109.66.157.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id di9sm8944245wib.16.2015.06.10.10.29.08 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:29:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 20:29:03 +0300 Message-ID: <006501d0a3a2$f3b2dfc0$db189f40$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0066_01D0A3BC.1900DB10" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdCjodqBsWiiB5JJTCWcwfmP3D1QpQ== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: [clue] Roni's review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 17:29:14 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01D0A3BC.1900DB10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I am also late In section 2 "except for the "CLUE Participant" definition (which is still under discussion). - I am not sure what to make out of this. I think it will be better to just have new terms and use the ones defined in the framework without repeating them here which may cause inconsistency (for example the term endpoint here is different from the one on the framework.) Camera-Left and Right: this is not specified in the framework. Roni _____ ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01D0A3BC.1900DB10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

I am also = late

 

In section 2 “except for the "CLUE = Participant"   definition (which is still under = discussion).   –  I am not sure what to make out of = this. I think it will be better to just have new terms and use the ones = defined in the framework without repeating them here  which may = cause inconsistency (for example the term endpoint here is different = from the one on the framework.) Camera-Left and Right:  this is not = specified in the framework.

 

Roni

 

 

 


------=_NextPart_000_0066_01D0A3BC.1900DB10-- From nobody Wed Jun 10 10:31:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B71951B29AC for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:31:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id alD19s1Z014d for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com (mail-wi0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F2CA1AD0D7 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibdq8 with SMTP id dq8so54762517wib.1 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:31:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=BQ85+Jb5q+Wgc+6+rgkwtIKFCcDGqw77tPovn8D9krY=; b=Upa+TKH3bWzX92gYRsSN/lFJ6ICRo0Xs1A4Uoo+hcGUarSWmOLLCMJNurgEzzT2Rfu gLgJrug4914W7whUkN9k30PSIfG94637xHxZ5eTbf+Imqub91Jg1tBRl0w9BtPoM4CX0 3vLPwtTOWgiPg+AoaQDPsQmzOvyB4O2LKYCkJ5O2QuZ0VmNV5iI8cOLjVV8lvGwtd9Pq xYgnLMjmYpW9KP7MoE8O0Wq7favCYUpezPzruLf6H4mafLRSRAZS29022NJZNFDxzJ1m fcG3j7mt+X/zhlhxLiYuQa2ebI7vPsHt/q3t9VkvEa493eg04tVYQswX3p5LlwMVuBSM PbeQ== X-Received: by 10.180.189.209 with SMTP id gk17mr20936288wic.93.1433957463903; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE ([109.66.157.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id lf4sm15542335wjb.42.2015.06.10.10.31.02 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:31:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Paul Kyzivat'" , "'CLUE'" References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 20:30:57 +0300 Message-ID: <006a01d0a3a3$37bc04d0$a7340e70$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLwtexFsBGE5FYee9oNNNPSNt328QF0fRUom1o2NQA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 17:31:06 -0000 Hi, With my chair hat on, I asked for a review from the XML directorate but so far they were unable to find someone to reveiew. This is a pity > > * Section 3: > > General: I'm not an xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting > idiosyncracies that seem odd to me, though clearly simply editor choices. I will > not mention those. It might be good for somebody who isn't an author but is an > XML expert to review the schema for style. Or perhaps it can be run through an > XML pretty-printer. Roni Even CLUE co-chair > From nobody Wed Jun 10 10:47:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26EC41B2D18 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:47:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.235 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8JCR5cg6i7zN for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21B2D1B2D32 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-14v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.110]) by resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id ehn11q0062PT3Qt01hnTzR; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 17:47:27 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.151]) by resomta-ch2-14v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id ehnS1q00V3Ge9ey01hnSa7; Wed, 10 Jun 2015 17:47:27 +0000 Message-ID: <5578782D.50305@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:47:25 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clue@ietf.org References: <5577A7AC.2090002@alum.mit.edu> <55782200.3040701@cisco.com> <55783BDB.6070306@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <55783BDB.6070306@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1433958447; bh=pVAlgKKjg4s3OALjQEMPX2sN5chDBMquaS1CaO9GNKQ=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=c1mmG3WmVGaf9reG+/i74cxWhbDR/hMwOwQL2/mHVPD7BJq+NQjpxF8im9jddXkfo E83w2Kf8ejy76DQ6GI32TlJ6vEC0qXTpQrC9DKunJciOVggL43UmrfXUmQgWwQN9sD sQF7p2lG8SBf1CihEk2ZaoRYZMRBM9e9PwflkrdajL4WBoY4JALNXdLNTvbdjI4aO8 Gifn8FafpDAGCppxF7xhMeOTY0ReKU61WoLW7zpU6ew7ywky/RDAY/kG62NNgxKqGd PBqVtbP8uXkMpn8mnsR6/epRZWkIHFEeA/64invZauaFzsXFyS4oFD5EpONC0CRJxF YslxqCdv5LfQA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 17:47:30 -0000 On 6/10/15 9:30 AM, Robert Hansen wrote: > Sorry, this was me being stupid - forgot that we're describing the > actual area of capture and not just the plane of interest, so we do need > to actually define the corners. The variant to what you said is that we just specify points of a quadrilateral without any further semantics about them. But if we were to do that, then I think point of capture must be mandatory, not optional. If you have the area of capture without point of capture and without any indication from the coordinates of how that area of capture is to be viewed, then you can't tell which is the front and which is the back. That makes a big difference! But still, what we have seems a bit confusing and hacky, at least in terminology. ISTM that really what is needed for video, in addition to the area of capture, is info on which side is the front, and which way is up. (To a receiver.) The point of capture and axis of capture are sometimes helpful, but not mandatory. I think knowledge of which way is up is also sometimes needed for audio. (In addition to (OTOH, for text probably the only spatial attribute of any potential relevance is point of capture.) ISTM that the following spatial info is of potential use to a receiver: Video: - area of capture - which side of area of capture is front - which direction on area of capture is up - axis of capture - point of capture Audio: - axis of capture - point (or points) of capture - pattern Text: - point of capture As things stand, you can potentially infer which side of the area of capture is front, and which way is up, from the coordinates of the area of capture, given what the names of the four corners imply. But this could be confusing to some if they receive and adv where numerically the left coordinates are greater than the right coordinates. It might be better to allow all of these things to be explicitly specified. (We could then still define how to derive defaults for some of them. E.g. that the default axis of capture is normal to the center of the area of capture.) Thanks, Paul > Rob > > On 10/06/15 12:39, Robert Hansen wrote: >> Rather than try and force the coordinates to match the semantic >> meanings of , , etc, is there a reason we >> can't just change use , and ; then the only >> constraint we have to have is that none of those points may match each >> other or the point of capture - once we have more than three we have >> to constrain them to be coplanar, and once we label them as meaningful >> we have to apply those constraints to. >> >> Rob >> >> On 10/06/15 03:57, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>> These all seem like good points. (Some overlap with mine, but not >>> fully.) I have a comment on one point: >>> >>> On 6/9/15 7:59 PM, Rob Hansen (rohanse2) wrote: >>> >>>> Section 10.5.2. >>>> Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points >>>> , , , and , should we >>>> mandate that they actually represent this, since otherwise someone >>>> could potentially put above while the far end >>>> might assume they are laid out as per their names, or should we >>>> rename them to three or four generic points that can be anything so >>>> long as they are coplanar? >>> >>> It would be good to say more, but it is tricky. This can't determined >>> based on the scene coordinate system, because the plane can be >>> oriented in ways where that won't work. (E.g. all four points have >>> the same x-coordinate - the plane is perpendicular to the "front" of >>> the room.) >>> >>> I think it has to be defined wrt the the point of capture and axis of >>> capture. If the point of capture isn't specified, then the >>> arrangement of these can be used to approximate an axis of capture >>> (but not point of capture). Given all that, I think there are some >>> further constraints on how the coordinates are arranged, but it makes >>> my head hurt to think about how to define that. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Paul >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> clue mailing list >>> clue@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue >> >> _______________________________________________ >> clue mailing list >> clue@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > From nobody Tue Jun 16 14:00:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D12D41B2C3C for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 14:00:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sMZODG-bHASe for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 14:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.bemta12.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta12.messagelabs.com [216.82.251.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E1911ACDD0 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 14:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [216.82.249.212] by server-4.bemta-12.messagelabs.com id 5E/C0-02296-E6E80855; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 21:00:30 +0000 X-Env-Sender: Mark.Duckworth@polycom.com X-Msg-Ref: server-8.tower-219.messagelabs.com!1434488421!5435175!1 X-Originating-IP: [140.242.64.154] X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.13.16; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 20419 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2015 21:00:22 -0000 Received: from crpehubprd02.polycom.com (HELO crpehubprd02.polycom.com) (140.242.64.154) by server-8.tower-219.messagelabs.com with AES128-SHA encrypted SMTP; 16 Jun 2015 21:00:22 -0000 Received: from PWEHUB01.polycom.com (10.236.2.221) by crpehubprd02.polycom.com (10.236.0.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.389.2; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 14:00:21 -0700 Received: from CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com ([169.254.1.184]) by PWEHUB01.polycom.com ([fe80::99a8:f785:3f0c:2bb6%17]) with mapi; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 14:00:21 -0700 From: "Duckworth, Mark" To: Paul Kyzivat , CLUE Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 14:00:19 -0700 Thread-Topic: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 Thread-Index: AdCi7lr2TcCmT0MiT6OJEwxuKI4cAwFhLPuA Message-ID: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14D654@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 21:00:34 -0000 I have a few comments on Paul's comments. I'm including here only the part= s of Paul's message I am commenting on. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 3:54 PM > To: CLUE > Subject: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-0= 9 > > * Section 3: >=20 > In the following: >=20 > The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of > the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a Media Provider > and the streams that are requested by a Media Consumer given the > Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]). >=20 > s/requested/available to be requested/ [Duckworth, Mark] I thought it was referring to a Consumer's configure mess= age, so it would be the streams requested by a consumer. > Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the > available policies? [Duckworth, Mark] Good question. Two policies are described in the framewo= rk: SoundLevel and RoundRobin. It also includes an index, which in the dat= a model examples is just tacked on to the end of the string like "SoundLeve= l:1". I think the data model should be more explicit about the allowed val= ues for MCC . > MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of one. > Shouldn't multiple languages be allowed? [Duckworth, Mark] Yes, the framework says it could be one or more languages= . > MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to > specify the available media types? [Duckworth, Mark] It is defined in section 10.2 > PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this before, but I still find it > disturbing that we have a complexType named "personType" that contains > an element named "personType". [Duckworth, Mark] I think you are mistaken. I see a complexType "peopleTyp= e", which contains element "personType", which then contains "personTypeTyp= e". > I guess it is syntactically and > semantically well defined, but it is certainly confusing to read the > schema. I would expect to get confusion in the future. I suggest > replacing personTypeType with personRoleType or personJobType or > personDutyType, and then change the element name to match. (I recall > there were reasons not to use Role.) [Duckworth, Mark] Either keeping it as is, or change the name of personType= Type is okay with me. > * Section 10.5.2: >=20 > It would be helpful to note that the capture area has two "sides", and > it implies which side is the "front". (The capture point must be on the > side from which it is possible to view the left points as left of the > right points, and the top points as above the bottom points.) [Duckworth, Mark] I agree. The captureArea contains this information even = if capturePoint is not defined. > Thanks, > Paul From nobody Tue Jun 16 15:10:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EB231AC3F2 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 15:10:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fdtc_jZ2EB3P for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 15:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.bemta8.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta8.messagelabs.com [216.82.243.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF7671AC407 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 15:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [216.82.241.100] by server-10.bemta-8.messagelabs.com id B0/3A-06714-EDE90855; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:10:38 +0000 X-Env-Sender: Mark.Duckworth@polycom.com X-Msg-Ref: server-12.tower-220.messagelabs.com!1434492636!18886702!5 X-Originating-IP: [140.242.64.154] X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.13.16; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 31446 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2015 22:10:38 -0000 Received: from crpehubprd02.polycom.com (HELO crpehubprd02.polycom.com) (140.242.64.154) by server-12.tower-220.messagelabs.com with AES128-SHA encrypted SMTP; 16 Jun 2015 22:10:38 -0000 Received: from CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com ([169.254.1.184]) by crpehubprd02.polycom.com ([::1]) with mapi; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 15:10:38 -0700 From: "Duckworth, Mark" To: Paul Kyzivat , "clue@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 15:10:29 -0700 Thread-Topic: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 Thread-Index: AdCjpYr/1z7k2ckZQQqwkXbkvBikTQE22cOw Message-ID: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14D65E@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> References: <5577A7AC.2090002@alum.mit.edu> <55782200.3040701@cisco.com> <55783BDB.6070306@cisco.com> <5578782D.50305@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <5578782D.50305@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:10:43 -0000 I think it is simple. The four points of the area of capture define left, = right, top, bottom from the point of view of somebody looking at it, even i= f the point of capture is not given. We could add a sentence in the data m= odel to say this. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 1:47 PM > To: clue@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schem= a- > 09 >=20 > On 6/10/15 9:30 AM, Robert Hansen wrote: > > Sorry, this was me being stupid - forgot that we're describing the > > actual area of capture and not just the plane of interest, so we do nee= d > > to actually define the corners. >=20 > The variant to what you said is that we just specify points of a > quadrilateral without any further semantics about them. But if we were > to do that, then I think point of capture must be mandatory, not optional= . >=20 > If you have the area of capture without point of capture and without any > indication from the coordinates of how that area of capture is to be > viewed, then you can't tell which is the front and which is the back. > That makes a big difference! >=20 > But still, what we have seems a bit confusing and hacky, at least in > terminology. ISTM that really what is needed for video, in addition to > the area of capture, is info on which side is the front, and which way > is up. (To a receiver.) The point of capture and axis of capture are > sometimes helpful, but not mandatory. I think knowledge of which way is > up is also sometimes needed for audio. (In addition to (OTOH, for text > probably the only spatial attribute of any potential relevance is point > of capture.) >=20 > ISTM that the following spatial info is of potential use to a receiver: >=20 > Video: > - area of capture > - which side of area of capture is front > - which direction on area of capture is up > - axis of capture > - point of capture >=20 > Audio: > - axis of capture > - point (or points) of capture > - pattern >=20 > Text: > - point of capture >=20 > As things stand, you can potentially infer which side of the area of > capture is front, and which way is up, from the coordinates of the area > of capture, given what the names of the four corners imply. But this > could be confusing to some if they receive and adv where numerically the > left coordinates are greater than the right coordinates. >=20 > It might be better to allow all of these things to be explicitly > specified. (We could then still define how to derive defaults for some > of them. E.g. that the default axis of capture is normal to the center > of the area of capture.) >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 > > Rob > > > > On 10/06/15 12:39, Robert Hansen wrote: > >> Rather than try and force the coordinates to match the semantic > >> meanings of , , etc, is there a reason we > >> can't just change use , and ; then the only > >> constraint we have to have is that none of those points may match each > >> other or the point of capture - once we have more than three we have > >> to constrain them to be coplanar, and once we label them as meaningful > >> we have to apply those constraints to. > >> > >> Rob > >> > >> On 10/06/15 03:57, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > >>> These all seem like good points. (Some overlap with mine, but not > >>> fully.) I have a comment on one point: > >>> > >>> On 6/9/15 7:59 PM, Rob Hansen (rohanse2) wrote: > >>> > >>>> Section 10.5.2. > >>>> Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points > >>>> , , , and , should we > >>>> mandate that they actually represent this, since otherwise someone > >>>> could potentially put above while the far end > >>>> might assume they are laid out as per their names, or should we > >>>> rename them to three or four generic points that can be anything so > >>>> long as they are coplanar? > >>> > >>> It would be good to say more, but it is tricky. This can't determined > >>> based on the scene coordinate system, because the plane can be > >>> oriented in ways where that won't work. (E.g. all four points have > >>> the same x-coordinate - the plane is perpendicular to the "front" of > >>> the room.) > >>> > >>> I think it has to be defined wrt the the point of capture and axis of > >>> capture. If the point of capture isn't specified, then the > >>> arrangement of these can be used to approximate an axis of capture > >>> (but not point of capture). Given all that, I think there are some > >>> further constraints on how the coordinates are arranged, but it makes > >>> my head hurt to think about how to define that. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Paul > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> clue mailing list > >>> clue@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> clue mailing list > >> clue@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > > > > _______________________________________________ > > clue mailing list > > clue@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue From nobody Tue Jun 16 21:59:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89631B3BF3 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 21:59:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gKrNBwJkfQdG for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 21:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cserver5.myshophosting.com (cserver5.myshophosting.com [175.107.161.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1F741B3BE8 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 21:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp118-209-82-127.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net ([118.209.82.127]:51496 helo=[192.168.1.22]) by cserver5.myshophosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Z55RX-002b1B-M0 for clue@ietf.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:59:19 +1000 Message-ID: <5580FEA2.1010701@nteczone.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:59:14 +1000 From: Christian Groves User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clue@ietf.org References: <5577A7AC.2090002@alum.mit.edu> <55782200.3040701@cisco.com> <55783BDB.6070306@cisco.com> <5578782D.50305@alum.mit.edu> <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14D65E@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> In-Reply-To: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14D65E@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cserver5.myshophosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - nteczone.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cserver5.myshophosting.com: authenticated_id: christian.groves@nteczone.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 04:59:25 -0000 I agree with Mark here. Christian On 17/06/2015 8:10 AM, Duckworth, Mark wrote: > I think it is simple. The four points of the area of capture define left, right, top, bottom from the point of view of somebody looking at it, even if the point of capture is not given. We could add a sentence in the data model to say this. > > Mark > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat >> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 1:47 PM >> To: clue@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema- >> 09 >> >> On 6/10/15 9:30 AM, Robert Hansen wrote: >>> Sorry, this was me being stupid - forgot that we're describing the >>> actual area of capture and not just the plane of interest, so we do need >>> to actually define the corners. >> The variant to what you said is that we just specify points of a >> quadrilateral without any further semantics about them. But if we were >> to do that, then I think point of capture must be mandatory, not optional. >> >> If you have the area of capture without point of capture and without any >> indication from the coordinates of how that area of capture is to be >> viewed, then you can't tell which is the front and which is the back. >> That makes a big difference! >> >> But still, what we have seems a bit confusing and hacky, at least in >> terminology. ISTM that really what is needed for video, in addition to >> the area of capture, is info on which side is the front, and which way >> is up. (To a receiver.) The point of capture and axis of capture are >> sometimes helpful, but not mandatory. I think knowledge of which way is >> up is also sometimes needed for audio. (In addition to (OTOH, for text >> probably the only spatial attribute of any potential relevance is point >> of capture.) >> >> ISTM that the following spatial info is of potential use to a receiver: >> >> Video: >> - area of capture >> - which side of area of capture is front >> - which direction on area of capture is up >> - axis of capture >> - point of capture >> >> Audio: >> - axis of capture >> - point (or points) of capture >> - pattern >> >> Text: >> - point of capture >> >> As things stand, you can potentially infer which side of the area of >> capture is front, and which way is up, from the coordinates of the area >> of capture, given what the names of the four corners imply. But this >> could be confusing to some if they receive and adv where numerically the >> left coordinates are greater than the right coordinates. >> >> It might be better to allow all of these things to be explicitly >> specified. (We could then still define how to derive defaults for some >> of them. E.g. that the default axis of capture is normal to the center >> of the area of capture.) >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >>> Rob >>> >>> On 10/06/15 12:39, Robert Hansen wrote: >>>> Rather than try and force the coordinates to match the semantic >>>> meanings of , , etc, is there a reason we >>>> can't just change use , and ; then the only >>>> constraint we have to have is that none of those points may match each >>>> other or the point of capture - once we have more than three we have >>>> to constrain them to be coplanar, and once we label them as meaningful >>>> we have to apply those constraints to. >>>> >>>> Rob >>>> >>>> On 10/06/15 03:57, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>>>> These all seem like good points. (Some overlap with mine, but not >>>>> fully.) I have a comment on one point: >>>>> >>>>> On 6/9/15 7:59 PM, Rob Hansen (rohanse2) wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Section 10.5.2. >>>>>> Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points >>>>>> , , , and , should we >>>>>> mandate that they actually represent this, since otherwise someone >>>>>> could potentially put above while the far end >>>>>> might assume they are laid out as per their names, or should we >>>>>> rename them to three or four generic points that can be anything so >>>>>> long as they are coplanar? >>>>> It would be good to say more, but it is tricky. This can't determined >>>>> based on the scene coordinate system, because the plane can be >>>>> oriented in ways where that won't work. (E.g. all four points have >>>>> the same x-coordinate - the plane is perpendicular to the "front" of >>>>> the room.) >>>>> >>>>> I think it has to be defined wrt the the point of capture and axis of >>>>> capture. If the point of capture isn't specified, then the >>>>> arrangement of these can be used to approximate an axis of capture >>>>> (but not point of capture). Given all that, I think there are some >>>>> further constraints on how the coordinates are arranged, but it makes >>>>> my head hurt to think about how to define that. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> clue mailing list >>>>> clue@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> clue mailing list >>>> clue@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue >>> _______________________________________________ >>> clue mailing list >>> clue@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> clue mailing list >> clue@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > From nobody Sat Jun 20 00:40:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3710E1B2D9E for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:40:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xc0wqduZjvAh for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x236.google.com (mail-wi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8331A1B2D9C for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wiga1 with SMTP id a1so36299400wig.0 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:40:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :thread-index:content-language; bh=+0tCDMoTDQdUr+f/End0mOtiCOXej50Oo1NYwtywUZ4=; b=pfnW1lEx78Qplw10U/UFHzrrHnCM1S7bnG0bLpOhEX95TpHvd+HpEsWRW8oM7BFl+R n3eSbO/F4tFaJiK0cPCzUgvSIV0XcTQGK6X9aPu/T5tBQnck5lJbtR4GwlbSDj+hBIQw 3oLEq1Njn6F38oZ5U4Nfr1BlQviw7F5XD+4VRyPYvtaXBcoNrQ6iBSe0a5T3bDKvR6NQ F7FIlHfsXITaGtxPVoeLLvNOi3teGkfnwhqicmetAX0NZCLi6kB6u7thcS0fNxx+3+4+ R+XZzcKI4lvxtZzyEuiSq8JhUOKEZPKSdbUzl5wyDBx2gj4XHMCZ8QEu2UgZCpjlQwHC 0gSg== X-Received: by 10.180.94.35 with SMTP id cz3mr13649863wib.85.1434786050332; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE (bzq-109-66-172-245.red.bezeqint.net. [109.66.172.245]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s8sm7052530wik.5.2015.06.20.00.40.48 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:40:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: , "Paul Kyzivat" Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 10:40:43 +0300 Message-ID: <058301d0ab2c$6c344520$449ccf60$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0584_01D0AB45.91821960" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdCrK95k4mQj5Gp4SbeQ9iGmej/bvQ== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: [clue] CLUE agenda for IETF93 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 07:40:53 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0584_01D0AB45.91821960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, The CLUE WG will meet in Prague Monday, July 20, 2015 13:00 - 15:00 Afternoon Session I Karlin III ART CLUE Note that this scheduling is subject to change. I will prepare the agenda, We will wrap up the data schema, as for protocol I will start a WGLC and discuss the result at the meeting The RTP mapping and the Signaling need a new revision and reviews. Regards Roni ------=_NextPart_000_0584_01D0AB45.91821960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

The CLUE WG = will meet in Prague

 

Monday, July = 20, 2015

 

13:00 – 15:00  Afternoon Session = I

 

Karlin = III         = ART            = CLUE

         &= nbsp;          =

Note that this scheduling is subject = to change.

 

 

I will = prepare the agenda,

 

We will wrap = up the data schema, as for protocol I will start a WGLC and discuss the = result at the meeting

 

The =  RTP mapping and the Signaling need a new revision and = reviews.

 

Regards

Roni

------=_NextPart_000_0584_01D0AB45.91821960-- From nobody Sat Jun 20 01:06:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD7C1B2DBD for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 01:06:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oOTAH9UICOaE for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 01:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x236.google.com (mail-wi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F2881A6F10 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 01:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibee9 with SMTP id ee9so27131869wib.0 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 01:06:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=J78sgvRZhD+1cySExTWeBWyS1/e9sOxgKH+R4BQH9Vk=; b=RGD6w/S41Pxy7CeQPRBOnQeRt5Z1Gychu2PTLKXj85HXUGRy4AaBTEreCypRWRm4Yf 3yZ/PH2DRTjelixO/ZySpAq/doayA165duoLSQKgw1vpRnaefHy0S5DmNE61c0ugG1EL caNlhvc9RgaKGxfCZVKjENAj9WdyWvavfsgkMMBE7IPhfJgVOQD6YKrQFJuDnafhbt6+ IxQrgTc2wLldgJ+ELLWddzIJ7rNmTRfcGh13lZaYOvE5A8euGrwtFlirUn+n7WarxCdo 3VvV1V30nkvKy2ObkzChseRyEwX94WTvFu2XzxWrQ1ZtBwrNa3xJCSgucjfchpQxK6q7 uDEg== X-Received: by 10.194.82.38 with SMTP id f6mr19719876wjy.16.1434787604923; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 01:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE (bzq-79-180-100-127.red.bezeqint.net. [79.180.100.127]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id k2sm7110787wix.4.2015.06.20.01.06.43 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 20 Jun 2015 01:06:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Paul Kyzivat'" , "'CLUE'" References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 11:06:39 +0300 Message-ID: <058801d0ab30$0a99dce0$1fcd96a0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLwtexFsBGE5FYee9oNNNPSNt328QF0fRUom2lLaLA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 08:06:48 -0000 Hi, Looking at Paul's comments I would like to add Roni > Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the available > policies? [Roni Even] According to the framework it is a token - need to be like the framework > > MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of one. > Shouldn't multiple languages be allowed? [Roni Even] Also Where is "language" defined? > > MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to > specify the available media types? [Roni Even] I assume it is based on the "mediaCaptureType" we have audio, video, other for extensibility > > > > * Section 22: > > What is "a drafty version" intended to mean??? > > Thanks, > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue From nobody Sat Jun 20 05:17:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E8001A1BAF for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 05:17:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mHZdEWZVE2AV for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 05:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 397F21A1BAE for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 05:17:10 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79b66d000001131-cf-558559c5447d Received: from ESESSHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C0.66.04401.5C955855; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:17:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.27]) by ESESSHC003.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.27]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:17:08 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: "clue@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: CLUE data channel status Thread-Index: AdCrUuqM/zAhwE3qQb+gNE0Rac2/Yg== Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 12:17:07 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D8F431F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D8F431FESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrDLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvre7RyNZQg5N9YhYzp31gtdh/6jKz A5PHkiU/mTy+XP7MFsAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJUxZ9JHtoIpChVv3n9gb2CcKNPFyMEhIWAi seFBRBcjJ5ApJnHh3nq2LkYuDiGBo4wST3p3QzmLGSX2LdjHBtLAJmAh0f1PG6RBREBZ4ujm fjYQm1nAVmLrnLUsILawgKLEirlTGCFq1CRW/+9hgrD1JHY/eM8KYrMIqEpsntMKVsMr4Cvx 4uxUsDgj0BHfT61hgpgpLnHryXwmiOMEJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8jxXCVpJoXPKEFaI+X6Jr3T02 iJmCEidnPmGZwCg8C8moWUjKZiEpg4jrSCzY/YkNwtaWWLbwNTOMfebAYyZk8QWM7KsYRYtT i5Ny042M9VKLMpOLi/Pz9PJSSzYxAqPn4JbfqjsYL79xPMQowMGoxMOrcLIlVIg1say4MvcQ ozQHi5I474zNeaFCAumJJanZqakFqUXxRaU5qcWHGJk4OKUaGAWni95M3thdtyz/Wfyn1zHH XwSyvcy/pmof6XOxs/TXoh+dXzhCpv293+uVb3/iu9osjSOKUpLl19l1BeZd56hKYpD33f+s UvJBzPRlHY/O7dzGJmTPpH/PRzTKhWser5ASZ7uG09YGxgmrF0n9auniMzPU3vWpU8R79q9d 11p3iC+Y26i3V4mlOCPRUIu5qDgRAAAjiYd/AgAA Archived-At: Cc: "clue-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [clue] CLUE data channel status X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 12:17:13 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D8F431FESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, We finalized WGLC of the CLUE data channel draft a while ago. We, however, = decided to wait with the publication request. I took a look at the status of the references in the draft. There are a some TSVWG references. draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctp-prpolicies has bee= n published as RFC 7496, and the other TSVWG references seem to be in the R= FC Editor's queue. There are RTCWEB references, and they also seem to be in the RFC Editor's q= ueue. And, there are some CLUE references. The MMUSIC references (draft-ietf-mmusic-data-channel-sdpneg and draft-ietf= -mmusic-sctp-sdp) are still being worked on in the WG. Regards, Christer --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D8F431FESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

We finalized WGLC of the CLUE data channel draft a w= hile ago. We, however, decided to wait with the publication request.

 

I took a look at the status of the references in the= draft.

 

There are a some TSVWG references. draft-ietf-tsvwg-= sctp-prpolicies has been published as RFC 7496, and the other TSVWG referen= ces seem to be in the RFC Editor’s queue.

 

There are RTCWEB references, and they also seem to b= e in the RFC Editor’s queue.

 

And, there are some CLUE references.

 

The MMUSIC references (draft-ietf-mmusic-data-channe= l-sdpneg and draft-ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp) are still being worked on in the W= G.

 

Regards,

 

Christer

--_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D8F431FESESSMB209erics_-- From nobody Sat Jun 20 14:10:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6B811AC3AB for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:10:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cRpDFZgSHgXl for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:10:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22f.google.com (mail-wi0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D07D1AC3A6 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wiga1 with SMTP id a1so45913620wig.0 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:10:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:thread-index:content-language; bh=6b4Ihg0/IyvonIY6ndd1hjA6No55sIHP3gbwd/x7IaE=; b=ftAyqjnpM/EzKsIPwTCvb0paaH42higTgYWldFy6n60jqArntEyQgOQHFbORIiovox BFWPXRdDtiCkTr+Pw3C7k/UloMFs/XPY2JLPlEK/tnBZU9pqMQF00iPDA2Y8FahKWwG4 gi1bXkygt5Ha9tScX1qhbfKCvDPWDQxDD6MiQm+JuL13xOEZtfV3qZE0DOsgZWvi1Z7P l9e8PwZSTz95CtncjD4CcMlNMzvF8Gfrzq9/iVD6peM4WqpzlgCETUL9eLFUaxI7rDCw GRF8xVfswn/Xo2bOcMBI7+usPT5kQMaPgHfSUVHH5O2MyHxYiFTKtUienNko7nw1o46R lsug== X-Received: by 10.180.218.227 with SMTP id pj3mr18278949wic.59.1434834612401; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE (bzq-109-67-171-130.red.bezeqint.net. [109.67.171.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ma15sm9632916wic.20.2015.06.20.14.10.10 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:10:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Christer Holmberg'" , References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D8F431F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D8F431F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 00:10:05 +0300 Message-ID: <05dd01d0ab9d$7d353ac0$779fb040$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_05DE_01D0ABB6.A2830F00" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIC0TmsLG2oclPBVKyURJzq5fgal51Rls5Q Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Cc: clue-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] CLUE data channel status X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 21:10:16 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_05DE_01D0ABB6.A2830F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI Christer, I think that draft-ietf-mmusic-data-channel-sdpneg is the one we are waiting for. I did a review of the latest version, we should at least wait for the WGLC on it. Roni From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christer Holmberg Sent: 20 June, 2015 3:17 PM To: clue@ietf.org Cc: clue-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [clue] CLUE data channel status Hi, We finalized WGLC of the CLUE data channel draft a while ago. We, however, decided to wait with the publication request. I took a look at the status of the references in the draft. There are a some TSVWG references. draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctp-prpolicies has been published as RFC 7496, and the other TSVWG references seem to be in the RFC Editor's queue. There are RTCWEB references, and they also seem to be in the RFC Editor's queue. And, there are some CLUE references. The MMUSIC references (draft-ietf-mmusic-data-channel-sdpneg and draft-ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp) are still being worked on in the WG. Regards, Christer ------=_NextPart_000_05DE_01D0ABB6.A2830F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

HI = Christer,

I think that draft-ietf-mmusic-data-channel-sdpneg is the one we are = waiting for. I did a review of the latest version, we should at least = wait for the WGLC on it.

Roni

 

From:= = clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christer = Holmberg
Sent: 20 June, 2015 3:17 PM
To: = clue@ietf.org
Cc: = clue-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [clue] CLUE data channel = status

 

Hi,

 

We finalized WGLC of the CLUE data channel draft a while = ago. We, however, decided to wait with the publication = request.

 

I took a look at the status of the references in the = draft.

 

There are a some TSVWG references. = draft-ietf-tsvwg-sctp-prpolicies has been published as RFC 7496, and the = other TSVWG references seem to be in the RFC Editor’s = queue.

 

There are RTCWEB references, and they also seem to be in = the RFC Editor’s queue.

 

And, there are some CLUE = references.

 

The MMUSIC references = (draft-ietf-mmusic-data-channel-sdpneg and draft-ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp) = are still being worked on in the WG.

 

Regards,

 

Christer

------=_NextPart_000_05DE_01D0ABB6.A2830F00-- From nobody Tue Jun 23 03:55:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C35C1B2AE1 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 03:55:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.67 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.67 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TeaT2g3_kRSE for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 03:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brc1.unina.it (brc1.unina.it [192.132.34.50]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 454491B2ADD for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 03:55:08 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1435056904-05ce3773c3120daa0001-dOUo1C Received: from smtp1.unina.it (smtp1.unina.it [192.132.34.61]) by brc1.unina.it with ESMTP id 6rGsQHZGgfedtepw (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:55:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: roberta.presta@unina.it X-Barracuda-Apparent-Source-IP: 192.132.34.61 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([143.225.229.123]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp1.unina.it (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t5NAsw8D032353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:54:58 +0200 Message-ID: <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:55:00 +0200 From: Roberta Presta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "clue@ietf.org" References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 In-Reply-To: <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080402010103060708080204" X-Barracuda-Connect: smtp1.unina.it[192.132.34.61] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1435056904 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: AES256-SHA X-Barracuda-URL: http://192.132.34.50:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at unina.it X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=6.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.20105 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 10:55:12 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080402010103060708080204 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, we are applying the modifications derived by your comments. These are the first ones coming from Paul's review. We considered also Mark's reply to Paul to answer as in the following. Regards, Roberta Il 09/06/2015 21:54, Paul Kyzivat ha scritto: > I'm sorry for being so tardy in providing a review of this document. I > just now went through it: > > * Section 2: > > Capture Device: says it converts audio and video. Should probably also > mention text. > OK. Definition replaced with the one in the framework. > MCC: I can't quite make sense of the this part: "... the Stream coming > from the encoding of the composing Media Captures ...". I *think* the > intent can be achieved by replacing that with "... the contained media > captures ...". > OK. Replaced with "contained media captures. > Spatial Information: s/generate/generates/, s/phisical/physical/ OK. > > * Section 3: > > General: I'm not an xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting > idiosyncracies that seem odd to me, though clearly simply editor > choices. I will not mention those. It might be good for somebody who > isn't an author but is an XML expert to review the schema for style. > Or perhaps it can be run through an XML pretty-printer. > OK. > In the following: > > The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of > the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a Media Provider > and the streams that are requested by a Media Consumer given the > Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]). > > s/requested/available to be requested/ > I left "are requested" since the intention was the one detected by Mark in answering Paul's review. ("[Duckworth, Mark] I thought it was referring to a Consumer's configure message, so it would be the streams requested by a consumer.") > Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the > available policies? > OK. We added a regular expression to define the content of the element in the form of "token:index". > MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of > one. Shouldn't multiple languages be allowed? > OK. XML Schema definition updated (maxOccurs="unbounded). > MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to > specify the available media types? > As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 of the document. Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media types. We did not want to put any constraints on the set of possible media types. > PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this before, but I still find it > disturbing that we have a complexType named "personType" that contains > an element named "personType". I guess it is syntactically and > semantically well defined, but it is certainly confusing to read the > schema. I would expect to get confusion in the future. I suggest > replacing personTypeType with personRoleType or personJobType or > personDutyType, and then change the element name to match. (I recall > there were reasons not to use Role.) > I am OK with any change (e.g., from to ), but the Framework document should be changed accordingly. Our preferred option is to leave things as they are, btw. > SPATIAL INFORMATION TYPE: Syntactically this allows you to provide > spatial information yet omit both the capturePoint and the > captureArea. IIUC it is an error to specify neither. (Should have then > specified non-spatially-defined.) Can the XML be structured to prevent > this misuse? > This is actually specified in the text, rather than formally specified in the XML schema. * * > MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. > How about "variable" and "dynamic"? This is indeed how mobility type has been defined in the Framework document. Were OK with modifying such a definition, but framework should be changed accordingly. > OTHER CAPTURE TYPE: why doesn't this look exactly like TEXT CAPTURE > TYPE? (It differs by omission of anyAttribute.) > Actually, they do look identical in the current version of the document. > CAPTURE POINT TYPE: it still seems odd to me to call this a *point* > when it actually can define a vector. How about "captureVector"? Or, > since the part that makes it a vector is optional, maybe "captureOrigin". > I am OK with captureOrigin. Does everybody agree? > ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined encID. Presumably this is intended > to refer to the "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingType. Is that > correspondence specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to use the > IDREF mechanism? (Does the idref only work in a single document, while > this needs to work from a configure toward an advertisement?) > Actually, in the definition of , the type of is IDREF. > * Section 10.1: > > It would be helpful to say that the captureID serves as the way the > capture is referenced from CaptureEncodings created by the consumer in > Configure messages. > OK. Text added. > * Section 10.5.2: > > It would be helpful to note that the capture area has two "sides", and > it implies which side is the "front". (The capture point must be on > the side from which it is possible to view the left points as left of > the right points, and the top points as above the bottom points.) > OK, we added: "The four coplanar points are identified from the perspective of the capture device. > * Section 10.8: > > This says "... captures coming from the same source." But I think it > is possible for switching to include multiple sources concurrently. So > I think that needs to be changed to "... same sources.". > OK. > Also, in this section what is "MP"? I guess it means Media Provider? > Either this should be added to the definitions, or it should be > expanded. (Note that this is also used elsewhere.) > OK. Expanded everywhere. > * Section 10.16: > > It would be good to specify the semantics attaching to each value. I.e.: > > static: SHOULD not change for the duration of the CLUE session, across > multiple advertisements. > > dynamic: MAY change in each new advertisement. Can be assumed to > remain unchanged until there is a new advertisement. > > highly-dynamic: MAY change dynamically, even between advertisements. > The value in an advertisement is simply a snapshot of the location at > the time of the advertisement. > OK. Text added. > * Section 21: > > While this may repeat the framework, I think this section should > explain the the references in the captureEncoding are to captures and > encodings defined in a separate XML document (an advertisement). > OK. Done. > * Section 22: > > What is "a drafty version" intended to mean??? > Replaced with: The element includes all the information needed to represent the Media Provider's description of its telepresence capabilities according to the CLUE framework (i.e., it actually represents the body of the ADVERTISEMENT message). > Thanks, > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > ---- 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI DELL'UNIVERSIT DI NAPOLI Codice Fiscale: 00876220633 www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille --------------080402010103060708080204 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all,
we are applying the modifications derived by your comments.
These are the first ones coming from Paul's review.
We considered also Mark's reply to Paul to answer as in the following.
Regards,

Roberta


Il 09/06/2015 21:54, Paul Kyzivat ha scritto:
I'm sorry for being so tardy in providing a review of this document. I just now went through it:

* Section 2:

Capture Device: says it converts audio and video. Should probably also mention text.


OK. Definition replaced with the one in the framework.

MCC: I can't quite make sense of the this part: "... the Stream coming from the encoding of the composing Media Captures ...". I *think* the intent can be achieved by replacing that with "... the contained media captures ...".


OK. Replaced with "contained media captures.

Spatial Information: s/generate/generates/, s/phisical/physical/

OK.


* Section 3:

General: I'm not an xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting idiosyncracies that seem odd to me, though clearly simply editor choices. I will not mention those. It might be good for somebody who isn't an author but is an XML expert to review the schema for style. Or perhaps it can be run through an XML pretty-printer.


OK.

In the following:

The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of
the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a Media Provider
and the streams that are requested by a Media Consumer given the
Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]).

s/requested/available to be requested/


I left "are requested" since the intention was the one detected by Mark in answering Paul's review.
("[Duckworth, Mark] I thought it was referring to a Consumer's configure message, so it would be the streams requested by a consumer.")

Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the available policies?


OK. We added a regular expression to define the content of the <policy> element in the form of "token:index".

<xs:simpleType name="policyType">
<xs:restriction base="xs:string">
<xs:pattern value="([a-zA-Z0-9])+[:]([0-9])+"/>
</xs:restriction>
</xs:simpleType>

MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of one. Shouldn't multiple languages be allowed?


OK. XML Schema definition updated (maxOccurs="unbounded).

MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to specify the available media types?


As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 of the document. Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media types. We did not want to put any constraints on the set of possible media types.

PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this before, but I still find it disturbing that we have a complexType named "personType" that contains an element named "personType". I guess it is syntactically and semantically well defined, but it is certainly confusing to read the schema. I would expect to get confusion in the future. I suggest replacing personTypeType with personRoleType or personJobType or personDutyType, and then change the element name to match. (I recall there were reasons not to use Role.)


I am OK with any change (e.g., from <personType> to <personRole>), but the Framework document should be changed accordingly.Our preferred option is to leave things as they are, btw.

SPATIAL INFORMATION TYPE: Syntactically this allows you to provide spatial information yet omit both the capturePoint and the captureArea. IIUC it is an error to specify neither. (Should have then specified non-spatially-defined.) Can the XML be structured to prevent this misuse?


This is actually specified in the text, rather than formally specified in the XML schema.

MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. How about "variable" and "dynamic"?

This is indeed how mobility type has been defined in the Framework document. Were OK with modifying such a definition, but framework should be changed accordingly.

OTHER CAPTURE TYPE: why doesn't this look exactly like TEXT CAPTURE TYPE? (It differs by omission of anyAttribute.)


Actually, they do look identical in the current version of the document.

CAPTURE POINT TYPE: it still seems odd to me to call this a *point* when it actually can define a vector. How about "captureVector"? Or, since the part that makes it a vector is optional, maybe "captureOrigin".


I am OK with captureOrigin. Does everybody agree?

ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined encID. Presumably this is intended to refer to the "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingType. Is that correspondence specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to use the IDREF mechanism? (Does the idref only work in a single document, while this needs to work from a configure toward an advertisement?)


Actually, in the definition of <encodingIDList>, the type of <encID> is IDREF.

* Section 10.1:

It would be helpful to say that the captureID serves as the way the capture is referenced from CaptureEncodings created by the consumer in Configure messages.


OK. Text added.

* Section 10.5.2:

It would be helpful to note that the capture area has two "sides", and it implies which side is the "front". (The capture point must be on the side from which it is possible to view the left points as left of the right points, and the top points as above the bottom points.)


OK, we added: "The four coplanar points are identified from the perspective of the capture device.

* Section 10.8:

This says "... captures coming from the same source." But I think it is possible for switching to include multiple sources concurrently. So I think that needs to be changed to "... same sources.".


OK.

Also, in this section what is "MP"? I guess it means Media Provider? Either this should be added to the definitions, or it should be expanded. (Note that this is also used elsewhere.)


OK. Expanded everywhere.

* Section 10.16:

It would be good to specify the semantics attaching to each value. I.e.:

static: SHOULD not change for the duration of the CLUE session, across multiple advertisements.

dynamic: MAY change in each new advertisement. Can be assumed to remain unchanged until there is a new advertisement.

highly-dynamic: MAY change dynamically, even between advertisements. The value in an advertisement is simply a snapshot of the location at the time of the advertisement.


OK. Text added.

* Section 21:

While this may repeat the framework, I think this section should explain the the references in the captureEncoding are to captures and encodings defined in a separate XML document (an advertisement).


OK. Done.

* Section 22:

What is "a drafty version" intended to mean???


Replaced with:
The <clueInfo> element includes all the information needed to represent the Media Provider's description of its telepresence capabilities according to the CLUE framework (i.e., it actually represents the body of the ADVERTISEMENT message).

Thanks,
Paul

_______________________________________________
clue mailing list
clue@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue






----
5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI
DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI
Codice Fiscale: 00876220633
www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille

  ­­   --------------080402010103060708080204-- From nobody Tue Jun 23 04:07:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F38F61B2AFA for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 04:07:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.03 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.03 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Il6SPgYBgrlf for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 04:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brc2.unina.it (brc2.unina.it [192.132.34.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DD141B2B07 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 04:07:25 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1435057639-05f2751f618bd860001-dOUo1C Received: from smtp2.unina.it (smtp2.unina.it [192.132.34.62]) by brc2.unina.it with ESMTP id VGosrNYenwtxf09k (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:07:19 +0200 (CEST) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: spromano@unina.it X-Barracuda-Apparent-Source-IP: 192.132.34.62 Received: from [143.225.28.169] ([143.225.28.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.unina.it (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t5NB7I1x022995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:07:19 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CA8277C5-BCC8-4F03-ADA2-7C35888567DE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: Simon Pietro Romano X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [clue] Roni's review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 In-Reply-To: <006501d0a3a2$f3b2dfc0$db189f40$@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:07:18 +0200 Message-Id: <7FF3C1FF-0B27-4A59-9B4A-4F8A1E8B66F8@unina.it> References: <006501d0a3a2$f3b2dfc0$db189f40$@gmail.com> To: Roni Even X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) X-Barracuda-Connect: smtp2.unina.it[192.132.34.62] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1435057639 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: AES256-SHA X-Barracuda-URL: http://192.132.34.42:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at unina.it X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.82 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.82 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=6.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE_2 X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.20105 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.00 MIME_QP_LONG_LINE RAW: Quoted-printable line longer than 76 chars 0.82 MIME_QP_LONG_LINE_2 RAW: Quoted-printable line longer than 76 chars Archived-At: Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] Roni's review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:07:27 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CA8277C5-BCC8-4F03-ADA2-7C35888567DE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 HI Roni, please see in-line. =20 > In section 2 =E2=80=9Cexcept for the "CLUE Participant" definition (whi= ch is still under discussion). =E2=80=93 I am not sure what to make out = of this. I think it will be better to just have new terms and use the ones = defined in the framework without repeating them here which may cause incon= sistency (for example the term endpoint here is different from the one on t= he framework.) Camera-Left and Right: this is not specified in the framewo= rk. We removed "Camera-Left and Right=E2=80=9D and modified =E2=80=9CEndpoint= =E2=80=9D in order to make it consistent with the framework document. We le= ft CLUE Participant, since it is widely used to illustrate the way the CLUE= protocol state machine works. We removed the "(which is still under discus= sion)=E2=80=9D parenthetical remark, btw. Do such modifications work for you? Simon >=20=20 > Roni >=20=20 >=20=20 >=20=20 > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue _\\|//_ ( O-O ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o00~~(_)~~00o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Simon Pietro Romano Universita' di Napoli Federico II Computer Engineering Department=20 Phone: +39 081 7683823 -- Fax: +39 081 7683816 e-mail: spromano@unina.it <>. Magritte. oooO ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~( )~~~ Oooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ ----=0D 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI=0D DELL'UNIVERSIT=C3=80 DI NAPOLI=0D Codice Fiscale: 00876220633=0D www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille=0D --Apple-Mail=_CA8277C5-BCC8-4F03-ADA2-7C35888567DE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 HI Roni,

please see in-line.
 
In section 2 =E2=80=9Cexcept for= the "CLUE Participant"   definition (which is still under discus= sion).   =E2=80=93  I am not sure what to make out of this. = I think it will be better to just have new terms and use the ones defined i= n the framework without repeating them here  which may cause inconsist= ency (for example the term endpoint here is different from the one on the f= ramework.) Camera-Left and Right:  this is not specified in the framew= ork.

We removed "Camera-Left and Right=E2=80=9D and modified =E2= =80=9CEndpoint=E2=80=9D in order to make it consistent with the fra= mework document. We left CLUE Participant, since it is widely used to illus= trate the way the CLUE protocol state machine works. We removed the "(which= is still under discussion)=E2=80=9D parent= hetical remark, btw.

=
Do such modifications work for you?=

=
Simon

<= o:p class=3D""> 
Roni
 <= /div>
 
 

_______________________________________________
clue mailing list
clue@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue

    &nbs= p;                        _\\|//_
                   =               ( O-O )
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o00~~(_)~~00o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~~~
              &= nbsp;      Simon Pie= tro Romano
            &= nbsp;  Universita' di Napoli F= ederico II
            &= nbsp;                 Phone: +39 081 768= 3823 -- Fax: +39 081 7683816
      &nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;              e-mail: spromano@unina.it

    <<Molti mi dicono che = lo scoraggiamento =C3=A8 l'alibi degli 
   &n= bsp;idioti. Ci rifletto un istante; e mi scoraggio>>. Magritte.
=
                         =            oooO
  = ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(   )~~~ Oooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    &nbs= p;             \_)        = ;  ) /
            =                      = ;                     &nb= sp;                (_/
<= div class=3D"">








---= -
=0D 5x1000 AI GIOVANI=0D RICERCATORI
DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI
Codice Fiscale:=0D 00876220633
www.unina.it= /Vademecum5permille

  ­­  = --Apple-Mail=_CA8277C5-BCC8-4F03-ADA2-7C35888567DE-- From nobody Tue Jun 23 08:04:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD701B2CDE for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 08:04:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5ojqB7rp_SFb for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 08:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.bemta7.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta7.messagelabs.com [216.82.254.103]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54B861B2CD4 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 08:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [216.82.254.20] by server-7.bemta-7.messagelabs.com id C4/89-13540-36579855; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:04:03 +0000 X-Env-Sender: Mark.Duckworth@polycom.com X-Msg-Ref: server-5.tower-47.messagelabs.com!1435071682!19436961!13 X-Originating-IP: [140.242.64.154] X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.13.16; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 29837 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2015 15:03:56 -0000 Received: from crpehubprd02.polycom.com (HELO crpehubprd02.polycom.com) (140.242.64.154) by server-5.tower-47.messagelabs.com with AES128-SHA encrypted SMTP; 23 Jun 2015 15:03:56 -0000 Received: from CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com ([169.254.1.184]) by crpehubprd02.polycom.com ([::1]) with mapi; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 08:02:36 -0700 From: "Duckworth, Mark" To: Roberta Presta , "clue@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 08:02:35 -0700 Thread-Topic: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 Thread-Index: AdCtoxkcyeIz86ZOQn+GNXfO9dotAwAIkbfg Message-ID: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14DADE@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> In-Reply-To: <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14DADECRPMBOXPRD08p_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:04:10 -0000 --_000_5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14DADECRPMBOXPRD08p_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think renaming the element to makes sense.= I suppose capturePointType will then become captureOriginType. Mark From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roberta Presta Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 6:55 AM To: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema= -09 Dear all, we are applying the modifications derived by your comments. These are the first ones coming from Paul's review. We considered also Mark's reply to Paul to answer as in the following. Regards, Roberta Il 09/06/2015 21:54, Paul Kyzivat ha scritto: I'm sorry for being so tardy in providing a review of this document. I just= now went through it: * Section 2: Capture Device: says it converts audio and video. Should probably also ment= ion text. OK. Definition replaced with the one in the framework. MCC: I can't quite make sense of the this part: "... the Stream coming from= the encoding of the composing Media Captures ...". I *think* the intent ca= n be achieved by replacing that with "... the contained media captures ..."= . OK. Replaced with "contained media captures". Spatial Information: s/generate/generates/, s/phisical/physical/ OK. * Section 3: General: I'm not an xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting idiosyncr= acies that seem odd to me, though clearly simply editor choices. I will not= mention those. It might be good for somebody who isn't an author but is an= XML expert to review the schema for style. Or perhaps it can be run throug= h an XML pretty-printer. OK. In the following: The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a Media Provider and the streams that are requested by a Media Consumer given the Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]). s/requested/available to be requested/ I left "are requested" since the intention was the one detected by Mark in = answering Paul's review. ("[Duckworth, Mark] I thought it was referring to a Consumer's configure me= ssage, so it would be the streams requested by a consumer.") Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the availabl= e policies? OK. We added a regular expression to define the content of the ele= ment in the form of "token:index". MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of one. Sh= ouldn't multiple languages be allowed? OK. XML Schema definition updated (maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"). MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to speci= fy the available media types? As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 of the document. Audi= o, video and text are just examples of valid media types. We did not want = to put any constraints on the set of possible media types. PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this before, but I still find it disturbin= g that we have a complexType named "personType" that contains an element na= med "personType". I guess it is syntactically and semantically well defined= , but it is certainly confusing to read the schema. I would expect to get c= onfusion in the future. I suggest replacing personTypeType with personRoleT= ype or personJobType or personDutyType, and then change the element name to= match. (I recall there were reasons not to use Role.) I am OK with any change (e.g., from to ), but the = Framework document should be changed accordingly. Our preferred option is t= o leave things as they are, btw. SPATIAL INFORMATION TYPE: Syntactically this allows you to provide spatial = information yet omit both the capturePoint and the captureArea. IIUC it is = an error to specify neither. (Should have then specified non-spatially-defi= ned.) Can the XML be structured to prevent this misuse? This is actually specified in the text, rather than formally specified in t= he XML schema. MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. How a= bout "variable" and "dynamic"? This is indeed how mobility type has been defined in the Framework document= . We're OK with modifying such a definition, but framework should be change= d accordingly. OTHER CAPTURE TYPE: why doesn't this look exactly like TEXT CAPTURE TYPE? (= It differs by omission of anyAttribute.) Actually, they do look identical in the current version of the document. CAPTURE POINT TYPE: it still seems odd to me to call this a *point* when it= actually can define a vector. How about "captureVector"? Or, since the par= t that makes it a vector is optional, maybe "captureOrigin". I am OK with captureOrigin. Does everybody agree? ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined encID. Presumably this is intended to r= efer to the "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingType. Is that corresponde= nce specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to use the IDREF mechanism? = (Does the idref only work in a single document, while this needs to work fr= om a configure toward an advertisement?) Actually, in the definition of , the type of is IDR= EF. * Section 10.1: It would be helpful to say that the captureID serves as the way the capture= is referenced from CaptureEncodings created by the consumer in Configure m= essages. OK. Text added. * Section 10.5.2: It would be helpful to note that the capture area has two "sides", and it i= mplies which side is the "front". (The capture point must be on the side fr= om which it is possible to view the left points as left of the right points= , and the top points as above the bottom points.) OK, we added: "The four coplanar points are identified from the perspective= of the capture device." * Section 10.8: This says "... captures coming from the same source." But I think it is pos= sible for switching to include multiple sources concurrently. So I think th= at needs to be changed to "... same sources.". OK. Also, in this section what is "MP"? I guess it means Media Provider? Either= this should be added to the definitions, or it should be expanded. (Note t= hat this is also used elsewhere.) OK. Expanded everywhere. * Section 10.16: It would be good to specify the semantics attaching to each value. I.e.: static: SHOULD not change for the duration of the CLUE session, across mult= iple advertisements. dynamic: MAY change in each new advertisement. Can be assumed to remain unc= hanged until there is a new advertisement. highly-dynamic: MAY change dynamically, even between advertisements. The va= lue in an advertisement is simply a snapshot of the location at the time of= the advertisement. OK. Text added. * Section 21: While this may repeat the framework, I think this section should explain th= e the references in the captureEncoding are to captures and encodings defin= ed in a separate XML document (an advertisement). OK. Done. * Section 22: What is "a drafty version" intended to mean??? Replaced with: The element includes all the information needed to represent the= Media Provider's description of its telepresence capabilities according to= the CLUE framework (i.e., it actually represents the body of the ADVERTISE= MENT message). Thanks, Paul _______________________________________________ clue mailing list clue@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue ---- 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI Codice Fiscale: 00876220633 www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille =20 --_000_5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14DADECRPMBOXPRD08p_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= I think renaming the <capturePoint> element to <captureOrig= in> makes sense.  I suppose capturePointType will then become captu= reOriginType.

Mark

 

From: = clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roberta Presta
<= b>Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 6:55 AM
To: clue@ietf.org
<= b>Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-= schema-09

 =

Dear all,

we are applying the modifications derived by you= r comments.
These are the first ones coming from Paul's review.
We co= nsidered also Mark's reply to Paul to answer as in the following.
Regard= s,

Roberta


Il 09/06/2015 21:54, Paul Kyzivat ha scritto:<= o:p>

I'm sorry for being= so tardy in providing a review of this document. I just now went through i= t:

* Section 2:

Capture Device: says it converts audio and = video. Should probably also mention text.

=

 

OK. De= finition replaced with the one in the framework.

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>

MCC: I can't quite make sense of the this part: ".= .. the Stream coming from the encoding of the composing Media Captures ...&= quot;. I *think* the intent can be achieved by replacing that with "..= . the contained media captures ...".

 

OK. Replaced with &= quot;contained media captures”.



Spatial Information: s= /generate/generates/, s/phisical/physical/

 

OK.

=




* Section 3:

General: I'm not a= n xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting idiosyncracies that seem od= d to me, though clearly simply editor choices. I will not mention those. It= might be good for somebody who isn't an author but is an XML expert to rev= iew the schema for style. Or perhaps it can be run through an XML pretty-pr= inter.

 

=

OK.


=

In t= he following:

   The element and attribute definitions ar= e formal representations of
   the concepts needed to describ= e the capabilities of a Media Provider
   and the streams tha= t are requested by a Media Consumer given the
   Media Provid= er's ADVERTISEMENT ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]).

s/requested/availabl= e to be requested/

 

I left "are requested" since the= intention was the one detected by Mark in answering Paul's review.
(&qu= ot;[Duckworth, Mark] I thought it was referring to a Consumer's configure m= essage, so it would be the streams requested by a consumer.")

<= br>

Polic= y for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the available pol= icies?


OK. We added a regular expre= ssion to define the content of the <policy> element in the form of &q= uot;token:index".

<xs:simpleType name=3D"policyType&quo= t;>
 <xs:restriction base=3D"xs:string">
&nbs= p;     <xs:pattern value=3D"([a-zA-Z0-9])+[:]([= 0-9])+"/>
    </xs:restriction>
</xs:= simpleType>


MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: Language is currently optional, but w= ith max of one. Shouldn't multiple languages be allowed?

 

OK. = XML Schema definition updated (maxOccurs=3D"unbounded”).



MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType&= quot; is just a string. How are we going to specify the available media typ= es?

 

As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.= 2 of the document. Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media t= ypes. We did  not want to put any constraints on the set of possible m= edia types.



PERSON TYPE: I know we= discussed this before, but I still find it disturbing that we have a compl= exType named "personType" that contains an element named "pe= rsonType". I guess it is syntactically and semantically well defined, = but it is certainly confusing to read the schema. I would expect to get con= fusion in the future. I suggest replacing personTypeType with personRoleTyp= e or personJobType or personDutyType, and then change the element name to m= atch. (I recall there were reasons not to use Role.)

 

I am OK = with any change (e.g., from <personType> to <personRole>), but = the Framework document should be changed accordingly. Our preferred op= tion is to leave things as they are, btw.


SPATIAL INFORMATION TYPE: Synt= actically this allows you to provide spatial information yet omit both the = capturePoint and the captureArea. IIUC it is an error to specify neither. (= Should have then specified non-spatially-defined.) Can the XML be structure= d to prevent this misuse?

&nb= sp;

This is actually specified in the t= ext, rather than formally specified in the XML schema.

=



<= o:p>

MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic"= ; and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. How about "variable&= quot; and "dynamic"?


This= is indeed how mobility type has been defined in the Framework document. We= ’re OK with modifying such a definition, but framework should be chan= ged accordingly.


  <= o:p>

OTHER CAP= TURE TYPE: why doesn't this look exactly like TEXT CAPTURE TYPE? (It differ= s by omission of anyAttribute.)

 

Actually, they do look identi= cal in the current version of the document.



CAPTURE POINT TYPE: it still seems odd to me to call this a = *point* when it actually can define a vector. How about "captureVector= "? Or, since the part that makes it a vector is optional, maybe "= captureOrigin".

 

I am OK with captureOrigin. Does everybo= dy agree?


ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined encID. Presumably this is = intended to refer to the "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingTy= pe. Is that correspondence specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to us= e the IDREF mechanism? (Does the idref only work in a single document, whil= e this needs to work from a configure toward an advertisement?) =

 

Actually, in the definition of <encodingIDList>, the type of <e= ncID> is IDREF.


* Section 10.1:

It would be helpful to say th= at the captureID serves as the way the capture is referenced from CaptureEn= codings created by the consumer in Configure messages.

=

 

OK. Te= xt added.



=

* Section 10.5.2: <= br>
It would be helpful to note that the capture area has two "side= s", and it implies which side is the "front". (The capture p= oint must be on the side from which it is possible to view the left points = as left of the right points, and the top points as above the bottom points.= )

 

OK, we added: "The four coplanar points are identified= from the perspective of the capture device.”



* Section 10.8:

This says "... captures= coming from the same source." But I think it is possible for switchin= g to include multiple sources concurrently. So I think that needs to be cha= nged to "... same sources.".

 

OK.



Also, in this section what is "MP"? I= guess it means Media Provider? Either this should be added to the definiti= ons, or it should be expanded. (Note that this is also used elsewhere.)

 

OK. Expanded everywhere.



* Section 10.16:

It would be good to specify the semantics= attaching to each value. I.e.:

static: SHOULD not change for the d= uration of the CLUE session, across multiple advertisements.

dynami= c: MAY change in each new advertisement. Can be assumed to remain unchanged= until there is a new advertisement.

highly-dynamic: MAY change dyn= amically, even between advertisements. The value in an advertisement is sim= ply a snapshot of the location at the time of the advertisement.

 

OK. Text added.



<= o:p>

* Section= 21:

While this may repeat the framework, I think this section shou= ld explain the the references in the captureEncoding are to captures and en= codings defined in a separate XML document (an advertisement). <= /p>

 

OK. Done.



* Section 22:
What is "a drafty version" intended to mean???

 

Replaced with:
The <clueInfo> element includes all the informatio= n needed to represent the Media Provider's description of its telepresence = capabilities according to the CLUE framework (i.e., it actually represents = the body of the ADVERTISEMENT message). 

 

    Thanks,
  &= nbsp; Paul

_______________________________________________ clue mailing list
clue@ietf.org <= br>https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/clue

&nbs= p;

 



<= /p>

----
5x1000 AI GIOVAN= I RICERCATORI
DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI
Codice Fiscale: 00876220633<= br>
www.uni= na.it/Vademecum5permille

  ­­  

= --_000_5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14DADECRPMBOXPRD08p_-- From nobody Tue Jun 23 12:35:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6A51A6EFE for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:35:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.235 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GSevM424v7Ph for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 060F81B2F40 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-18v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.114]) by resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id jvZF1q0062Udklx01vb3ko; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 19:35:03 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.151]) by resomta-ch2-18v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id jvb21q00U3Ge9ey01vb2eV; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 19:35:03 +0000 Message-ID: <5589B4E5.5090808@alum.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:35:01 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clue@ietf.org References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> In-Reply-To: <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1435088103; bh=c6+Wfvm30IgrzLsX8m2dB1dEWuKGxm+pMa4lAqDOwCI=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=DgJ1R3Q+jK22NHhbg8Ei8RheWXaa/2WJYb14OtijcefAhoSKVVWJkiJ9UaMSpZ2/+ 5ON9Ecvdg8MiiqDiPjFz/4JN4vJsiwdbgrecAPNsXXiuQ/HR+noQjEUAaIUN7MOBzf IPpjoEeahW2cKVsRGP4jP6NEKw7lO49slz9k+Rz0zv1vbkGXZNF/8lGk3mOpbLSZDw yYM2Dj3wH/kvhHRT3A50Fi1aCClWll1QQZWJd7b9SGS/b+xUkwPDD7GXivnVak7YBd igq3Br63C6/O1YyAG0pmMyxR/3PAgvVhm5A/iCL4XlxKTphZP4aD4XdMrZoKb2Z+Oa 8aDCEUUatOExw== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 19:35:08 -0000 On 6/23/15 6:55 AM, Roberta Presta wrote: > Dear all, > we are applying the modifications derived by your comments. > These are the first ones coming from Paul's review. > We considered also Mark's reply to Paul to answer as in the following. > Regards, > > Roberta Thanks Roberta! In general these look good. I have a few followup comments. I'm trimming out all the other stuff. > > Il 09/06/2015 21:54, Paul Kyzivat ha scritto: >> In the following: >> >> The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of >> the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a Media Provider >> and the streams that are requested by a Media Consumer given the >> Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]). >> >> s/requested/available to be requested/ >> > > I left "are requested" since the intention was the one detected by Mark > in answering Paul's review. > ("[Duckworth, Mark] I thought it was referring to a Consumer's configure > message, so it would be the streams requested by a consumer.") OK. I just misinterpreted. >> Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the >> available policies? >> > > OK. We added a regular expression to define the content of the > element in the form of "token:index". > > > > > > But which values are to be supported, what are the semantics of each, and how is that set extended? I'm comfortable with registries because I understand them, so I would be happy with an iana registry. But I guess that xml may have other ways to handle this. (E.g. an enumeration. Could such a thing be extended via definitions in another namespace?) >> MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to >> specify the available media types? >> > > As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 of the document. > Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media types. We did > not want to put any constraints on the set of possible media types. The text in 10.2 appears to be an *example*, and the "..." isn't very normative. What is the full range of possible values? One possibility is to reference RFC4566 for the definition used for the m-line. But I think we would need additional clue specifications to support more than audio/video/text. So we might want to say that *this* spec only covers audio/video/text, but it may be extended in the future to cover additional types allowed by RFC4566, and that receivers MUST be able to accept (and presumably ignore) advertisements that contain others that they don't understand. >> PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this before, but I still find it >> disturbing that we have a complexType named "personType" that contains >> an element named "personType". I guess it is syntactically and >> semantically well defined, but it is certainly confusing to read the >> schema. I would expect to get confusion in the future. I suggest >> replacing personTypeType with personRoleType or personJobType or >> personDutyType, and then change the element name to match. (I recall >> there were reasons not to use Role.) >> > > I am OK with any change (e.g., from to ), but > the Framework document should be changed accordingly. Our preferred > option is to leave things as they are, btw. My opinion remains, but it is just my opinion. So unless others sign on to support me it should stay as it is. >> MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. >> How about "variable" and "dynamic"? > > This is indeed how mobility type has been defined in the Framework > document. Were OK with modifying such a definition, but framework > should be changed accordingly. Mark? Others? >> ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined encID. Presumably this is intended >> to refer to the "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingType. Is that >> correspondence specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to use the >> IDREF mechanism? (Does the idref only work in a single document, while >> this needs to work from a configure toward an advertisement?) >> > > Actually, in the definition of , the type of is > IDREF. My confusion is because the definition of in the full schema in section 3 is *different* that the definition of in section 17.2. (The one in 17.2 references IDREF, but the one in section 3 does not.) I presume they are intended to be the same. I guess this points up a need to verify that *all* the snippets of xml schema throughout the document are consistent with full schema in section 3. (I didn't do that.) That's all. Thanks, Paul From nobody Tue Jun 23 16:30:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB9A91AD0C8 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 16:30:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o3OQEFf-G3jQ for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 16:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.bemta7.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta7.messagelabs.com [216.82.254.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB1671AD0C6 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 16:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [216.82.254.19] by server-1.bemta-7.messagelabs.com id D1/03-15928-61CE9855; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 23:30:30 +0000 X-Env-Sender: Mark.Duckworth@polycom.com X-Msg-Ref: server-11.tower-96.messagelabs.com!1435102230!20913422!1 X-Originating-IP: [140.242.64.154] X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.13.16; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 31029 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2015 23:30:30 -0000 Received: from crpehubprd02.polycom.com (HELO crpehubprd02.polycom.com) (140.242.64.154) by server-11.tower-96.messagelabs.com with AES128-SHA encrypted SMTP; 23 Jun 2015 23:30:30 -0000 Received: from PWEHUB01.polycom.com (10.236.2.221) by crpehubprd02.polycom.com (10.236.0.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.389.2; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 16:30:30 -0700 Received: from CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com ([169.254.1.184]) by PWEHUB01.polycom.com ([fe80::99a8:f785:3f0c:2bb6%17]) with mapi; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 16:30:29 -0700 From: "Duckworth, Mark" To: Paul Kyzivat , "clue@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 16:30:28 -0700 Thread-Topic: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 Thread-Index: AdCt68N6avwMYRiqRa6Qn8ZMFuY67wAIIddA Message-ID: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14DBD2@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> <5589B4E5.5090808@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <5589B4E5.5090808@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 23:30:32 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 3:35 PM > To: clue@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model- > schema-09 > >> MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. > >> How about "variable" and "dynamic"? > > > > This is indeed how mobility type has been defined in the Framework > > document. We're OK with modifying such a definition, but framework > > should be changed accordingly. >=20 > Mark? Others? =20 I don't think it's confusing. I'd rather keep it the way it is. But if th= e group wants to change it, I wouldn't object too much. Mark From nobody Tue Jun 23 18:39:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58D611B3354 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 18:39:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mvQ3IedfSfgu for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 18:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cserver5.myshophosting.com (cserver5.myshophosting.com [175.107.161.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 950431B3353 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 18:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp118-209-238-164.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net ([118.209.238.164]:51202 helo=[192.168.1.22]) by cserver5.myshophosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7Zf6-0030g0-19 for clue@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 11:39:36 +1000 Message-ID: <558A0A53.80402@nteczone.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 11:39:31 +1000 From: Christian Groves User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clue@ietf.org References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> <5589B4E5.5090808@alum.mit.edu> <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14DBD2@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> In-Reply-To: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F9BEA14DBD2@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cserver5.myshophosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - nteczone.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cserver5.myshophosting.com: authenticated_id: christian.groves@nteczone.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 01:39:40 -0000 On 24/06/2015 9:30 AM, Duckworth, Mark wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 3:35 PM >> To: clue@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model- >> schema-09 >>>> MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. >>>> How about "variable" and "dynamic"? >>> This is indeed how mobility type has been defined in the Framework >>> document. We're OK with modifying such a definition, but framework >>> should be changed accordingly. >> Mark? Others? > > I don't think it's confusing. I'd rather keep it the way it is. But if the group wants to change it, I wouldn't object too much. > > Mark I'm for keeping the way it is. We've already gone through WGLC on the framework where the names for attributes were first assigned. We didn't change the names/values then so I think we should leave them be. Regards, Christian > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > From nobody Wed Jun 24 03:34:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE25A1A044D for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 03:34:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tBV9OMTwh0YI for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 03:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22c.google.com (mail-wg0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 214A41A03A6 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 03:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgqq4 with SMTP id q4so32419201wgq.1 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 03:34:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :thread-index:content-language; bh=A6c3vTTZITWwEZJauqVDyVKJcrGi3HZy8Mmt+fbsG2w=; b=GZXDXQKiqY5UlbtfC9raPmXWuC4a5nwyXuOVn9cDKGlwJw09BVZZ0y30LKxWKqyhV7 24///hSzAjMCKmJA1cWjsvL31NtYlMaCIFNa2wutcXZ4jf9X/td3ZhPgU/h1YXpM/D0Z ZM1qiyDCUCEVS+m5D3d1gx79hMIrkJSdGWb+/Oc3gfQdIQTkMzX661rx0pa5yGhukniY sP7gneMhAFlVK+lF47lBp+xI0Ca1THUppedp2XtxXbLICYyH1GBk9yU/CnL9bvPr8nC/ kAQoq9GQU6ZoRIztj8CQ5AEWKJaRdjZd2MNfHYkMT14lH7Crbj1YDN7ru3A3ZaSrrzjd knFw== X-Received: by 10.180.90.11 with SMTP id bs11mr3693352wib.52.1435142041880; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 03:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE (bzq-79-176-59-112.red.bezeqint.net. [79.176.59.112]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s10sm40038313wjy.35.2015.06.24.03.33.58 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Jun 2015 03:34:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:33:55 +0300 Message-ID: <077001d0ae69$47e232f0$d7a698d0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0771_01D0AE82.6D2FE020" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdCuaQMyozTmFN1GRS+zM2pw+CdcaA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: [clue] WGLC on draft-ietf-clue-protocol-04 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 10:34:08 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0771_01D0AE82.6D2FE020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, The WG chairs would like to start a WGLC on https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-clue-protocol-04 To allow enough time we will have it as a long one till the Prague meeting. The WGLC will end by July 18th . At the last IETF mating Mark Duckworth, Rob Hansen and Paul Kyzivat volunteered to review the document. Please also verify the consistency with the other CLUE documents (signaling is the relevant one). Thanks Roni Even CLUE WG co-chair ------=_NextPart_000_0771_01D0AE82.6D2FE020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

The WG chairs = would like to start a WGLC on https://= tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-clue-protocol-04

To allow enough time we will have it as a long one = till the Prague meeting.

The WGLC = will end by July 18th .

At the last = IETF mating Mark Duckworth, Rob Hansen and Paul Kyzivat volunteered to = review the document.

 

Please also = verify the consistency with the other CLUE documents (signaling is the = relevant one).

 

Thanks

Roni = Even

CLUE WG = co-chair

------=_NextPart_000_0771_01D0AE82.6D2FE020-- From nobody Wed Jun 24 08:50:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360571ACE23 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 08:50:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.229 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.229 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jJ3_RGWVM01L for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 08:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x230.google.com (mail-wi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8EC41ACE41 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 08:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wicnd19 with SMTP id nd19so139420646wic.1 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 08:50:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :thread-index:content-language; bh=i4qBB40HJimytUTJ9BGlFVmnjgU6XSq4Fh/GcNklHFY=; b=j7XDlsyQe0Hp41BDS3FNLxaz14+qk1djeMobtjb5+q/G6sSMAszqP7Im0HHfoTN10E hve0yA/ZP6bv5Usm66lK/3pJl1IFfDy1+X2sQONPc55f1ui6J2/pW8mocDE6HsymZT2D jv2xm+EiA8IHnVIn3uh6juAI2WWcsgBGBX7uBwCMDOyjvxh+L6HDz60ncB1KaTzBT6bS cYCMTU8hWlReFdkbLtQ+JVx9Yx20jS4Fbt4/nOEt8DYxR2vb9WkPagjbn/8MbIJJFSrL z9HIL4vAfkdIa9mGhUFSvLnaHt0ahzrF89Ssfhzv2/AcHOv1juX1yy2LdpeDFoB2BCBL rgqQ== X-Received: by 10.180.24.40 with SMTP id r8mr6297978wif.24.1435161042609; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 08:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE (bzq-79-181-106-243.red.bezeqint.net. [79.181.106.243]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ka7sm41379134wjc.36.2015.06.24.08.50.40 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Jun 2015 08:50:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 18:50:37 +0300 Message-ID: <079601d0ae95$857e2020$907a6060$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0797_01D0AEAE.AACBCD50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdCulYOR6IBux+a1Qyee8T/5wU8UyA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: [clue] WGLC on draft-ietf-clue-protocol-04 - just fixed a typo X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 15:50:45 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0797_01D0AEAE.AACBCD50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, The WG chairs would like to start a WGLC on https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-clue-protocol-04 To allow enough time we will have it as a long one till the Prague meeting. The WGLC will end by July 18th . At the last IETF meeting Mark Duckworth, Rob Hansen and Paul Kyzivat volunteered to review the document. Please also verify the consistency with the other CLUE documents (signaling is the relevant one). Thanks Roni Even CLUE WG co-chair ------=_NextPart_000_0797_01D0AEAE.AACBCD50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

The WG chairs = would like to start a WGLC on https://= tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-clue-protocol-04

To allow enough time we will have it as a long one = till the Prague meeting.

The WGLC = will end by July 18th .

At the last = IETF meeting Mark Duckworth, Rob Hansen and Paul Kyzivat volunteered to = review the document.

 

Please also = verify the consistency with the other CLUE documents (signaling is the = relevant one).

 

Thanks

Roni = Even

CLUE WG = co-chair

------=_NextPart_000_0797_01D0AEAE.AACBCD50-- From nobody Fri Jun 26 05:20:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C8C51B29E5 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:20:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kwhh9RHLMQbp for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22a.google.com (mail-wi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3021D1B29F5 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wiga1 with SMTP id a1so16130427wig.0 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:20:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:thread-index:content-language; bh=C88057wwrUPcPFJAO26liEq8t28tGAb3opRuIulJ8ts=; b=eXIE6Sam1wavJB3YrMxkd8d3oX+QUpqMlf5v3PUWqxGhu80CauMV9PrFIZ2bbaOrgZ 3rvp78l2G8yQH9/SZkC4bl9Zx9IS7tKd01jpRRojiIv/691pfCQpArJL+Ph2gkZUi+aF 2tILLZbS28/RIsnDra3ksxrt8sqDNviz/h2qxMtop9HssMdR5beGbHgVCmu25xSn9/VL UJ496Mo5BOwYXWtZLTBHMK1axm9iAahoywLfcri3dpeIgYQxN5uHaIkAa0/8A5eZY0z1 wkPy+xzyCx2TFwKC6DERyaeLYPWnlH+r532NKEl65cUghKHyyHMi423OynZ2cwq9FMme 6DQA== X-Received: by 10.180.109.6 with SMTP id ho6mr4415282wib.58.1435321211908; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE (bzq-79-181-27-130.red.bezeqint.net. [79.181.27.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fm8sm2008804wib.9.2015.06.26.05.20.09 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:20:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Simon Pietro Romano'" References: <006501d0a3a2$f3b2dfc0$db189f40$@gmail.com> <7FF3C1FF-0B27-4A59-9B4A-4F8A1E8B66F8@unina.it> In-Reply-To: <7FF3C1FF-0B27-4A59-9B4A-4F8A1E8B66F8@unina.it> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:20:05 +0300 Message-ID: <08d101d0b00a$70d76430$52862c90$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_08D2_01D0B023.962649E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHIPgaWS1zYmO9qKh3nuSy8rYSWlgHsuCsKncAzB2A= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] Roni's review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 12:20:21 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_08D2_01D0B023.962649E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK for me Roni =20 From: Simon Pietro Romano [mailto:spromano@unina.it]=20 Sent: 23 June, 2015 2:07 PM To: Roni Even Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] Roni's review of = draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 =20 HI Roni, =20 please see in-line. =20 In section 2 =E2=80=9Cexcept for the "CLUE Participant" definition = (which is still under discussion). =E2=80=93 I am not sure what to = make out of this. I think it will be better to just have new terms and = use the ones defined in the framework without repeating them here which = may cause inconsistency (for example the term endpoint here is different = from the one on the framework.) Camera-Left and Right: this is not = specified in the framework. =20 We removed "Camera-Left and Right=E2=80=9D and modified = =E2=80=9CEndpoint=E2=80=9D in order to make it consistent with the = framework document. We left CLUE Participant, since it is widely used to = illustrate the way the CLUE protocol state machine works. We removed the = "(which is still under discussion)=E2=80=9D parenthetical remark, btw. =20 Do such modifications work for you? =20 Simon =20 Roni =20 =20 =20 _____ =20 _______________________________________________ clue mailing list clue@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue =20 = _\\|//_ = ( O-O ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o00~~(_)~~00o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Simon Pietro = Romano Universita' = di Napoli Federico II Computer Engineering Department=20 Phone: +39 081 7683823 -- Fax: +39 081 7683816 e-mail: spromano@unina.it =20 <>. Magritte. oooO ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~( )~~~ Oooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ = \ ( ( ) \_) = ) / = (_/ =20 =20 =20 =20 ---- 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI Codice Fiscale: 00876220633 = www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille =C2=AD=C2=AD =20 ------=_NextPart_000_08D2_01D0B023.962649E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

OK for me

Roni

 

From:= = Simon Pietro Romano [mailto:spromano@unina.it]
Sent: 23 June, = 2015 2:07 PM
To: Roni Even
Cc: = clue@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [clue] Roni's review of = draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09

 

HI = Roni,

 

please see in-line.

 

In section = 2 =E2=80=9Cexcept for the "CLUE Participant"   = definition (which is still under discussion).   =E2=80=93 =  I am not sure what to make out of this. I think it will be better = to just have new terms and use the ones defined in the framework without = repeating them here  which may cause inconsistency (for example the = term endpoint here is different from the one on the framework.) = Camera-Left and Right:  this is not specified in the = framework.

 

We = removed "Camera-Left= and Right=E2=80=9D = and modified&nb= sp;=E2=80=9CEndpoint=E2=80=9D in = order to make it consistent with the framework document. We left CLUE = Participant, since it is widely used to illustrate the way the CLUE = protocol state machine works. We removed the "(which is still under = discussion)=E2=80=9D paren= thetical remark, btw.

 

Do such = modifications work for you?

 

Simon



 =

Roni

 =

 =

 =


__________= _____________________________________
clue mailing list
clue@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue

 

    =                  =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0        = _\\|//_

    =                     =    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0     =   ( O-O )

  =  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o00~~(_)~~00o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    =                 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Simon Pietro = Romano

    =          =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =  Universita' di = Napoli Federico II

    =             =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0     =  Computer Engineering = Department 

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0     =          Phone: +39 081 7683823 -- Fax: +39 081 = 7683816

    =                     =                   =  e-mail: spromano@unina.it=

 

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0     = <<Molti mi dicono che lo scoraggiamento =C3=A8 l'alibi = degli 

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0    =  idioti. Ci rifletto un istante; e mi scoraggio>>. = Magritte.

    =            =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0   =                   =  oooO

  = ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(   = )~~~ Oooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0     =              \ (       =      (   )

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0     =                     =           \_)         =  ) /

    =                     =                     =                     =        (_/

 

 

 



 



----
5x100= 0 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI
DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI
Codice = Fiscale: 00876220633
www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille

  =C2=AD=C2=AD  

------=_NextPart_000_08D2_01D0B023.962649E0-- From nobody Fri Jun 26 05:33:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BBCD1B2B24 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:33:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6wLeoqaD6m8N for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x236.google.com (mail-wi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82DD61B2B22 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wicnd19 with SMTP id nd19so44082348wic.1 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:33:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:thread-index:content-language; bh=jhcOfnJq2kVpJ/92vuV8/Iy39n0BV2p5Z3QAk8OxEv4=; b=yLscztDK4do6XEq0fNVGbUAleYhJSsyXmGSrXCVxBoT02RU8hP8oRRifElaLwzNRgA G7qudI6x4MYtbshIxMBXgBOVo0rRbIrzrXn8Sr/LT4iHdPEmvc1p9OFrIbHYiF8TiQmF nqRweIkD1yUr6lorCwtlKdC9xlBshvuUlyhA1RDlPTDrS5RZtTerowLNofPcKiNrMWgO B3wDFcr8ZKKVpKAiBvoVrquiAPAGKjLdC8xA34EMTTyZ0xzGQRwCaAI4CTLXx0MxkCXJ BW7QyzXBpd+KKT1wG6XnFbTheMJ+c0S38tIOKuU495+RCY5VXczkF8iHMvTAtvH+Oksf pKug== X-Received: by 10.180.39.147 with SMTP id p19mr4459553wik.15.1435322007205; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE (bzq-79-181-27-130.red.bezeqint.net. [79.181.27.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id a6sm17224301wjy.33.2015.06.26.05.33.24 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 05:33:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Roberta Presta'" , References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> In-Reply-To: <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:33:21 +0300 Message-ID: <08d601d0b00c$4b077360$e1165a20$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_08D7_01D0B025.70563200" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLwtexFsBGE5FYee9oNNNPSNt328QF0fRUoAb9W2GgBpRuqIZtX43ng Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 12:33:39 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_08D7_01D0B025.70563200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, About the xml for - where is type language defined? I did not see it in http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema Roni From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roberta Presta Sent: 23 June, 2015 1:55 PM To: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 Dear all, we are applying the modifications derived by your comments. These are the first ones coming from Paul's review. We considered also Mark's reply to Paul to answer as in the following. Regards, Roberta Il 09/06/2015 21:54, Paul Kyzivat ha scritto: I'm sorry for being so tardy in providing a review of this document. I just now went through it: * Section 2: Capture Device: says it converts audio and video. Should probably also mention text. OK. Definition replaced with the one in the framework. MCC: I can't quite make sense of the this part: "... the Stream coming from the encoding of the composing Media Captures ...". I *think* the intent can be achieved by replacing that with "... the contained media captures ...". OK. Replaced with "contained media captures". Spatial Information: s/generate/generates/, s/phisical/physical/ OK. * Section 3: General: I'm not an xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting idiosyncracies that seem odd to me, though clearly simply editor choices. I will not mention those. It might be good for somebody who isn't an author but is an XML expert to review the schema for style. Or perhaps it can be run through an XML pretty-printer. OK. In the following: The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a Media Provider and the streams that are requested by a Media Consumer given the Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]). s/requested/available to be requested/ I left "are requested" since the intention was the one detected by Mark in answering Paul's review. ("[Duckworth, Mark] I thought it was referring to a Consumer's configure message, so it would be the streams requested by a consumer.") Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the available policies? OK. We added a regular expression to define the content of the element in the form of "token:index". MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of one. Shouldn't multiple languages be allowed? OK. XML Schema definition updated (maxOccurs="unbounded"). MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to specify the available media types? As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 of the document. Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media types. We did not want to put any constraints on the set of possible media types. PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this before, but I still find it disturbing that we have a complexType named "personType" that contains an element named "personType". I guess it is syntactically and semantically well defined, but it is certainly confusing to read the schema. I would expect to get confusion in the future. I suggest replacing personTypeType with personRoleType or personJobType or personDutyType, and then change the element name to match. (I recall there were reasons not to use Role.) I am OK with any change (e.g., from to ), but the Framework document should be changed accordingly. Our preferred option is to leave things as they are, btw. SPATIAL INFORMATION TYPE: Syntactically this allows you to provide spatial information yet omit both the capturePoint and the captureArea. IIUC it is an error to specify neither. (Should have then specified non-spatially-defined.) Can the XML be structured to prevent this misuse? This is actually specified in the text, rather than formally specified in the XML schema. MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. How about "variable" and "dynamic"? This is indeed how mobility type has been defined in the Framework document. We're OK with modifying such a definition, but framework should be changed accordingly. OTHER CAPTURE TYPE: why doesn't this look exactly like TEXT CAPTURE TYPE? (It differs by omission of anyAttribute.) Actually, they do look identical in the current version of the document. CAPTURE POINT TYPE: it still seems odd to me to call this a *point* when it actually can define a vector. How about "captureVector"? Or, since the part that makes it a vector is optional, maybe "captureOrigin". I am OK with captureOrigin. Does everybody agree? ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined encID. Presumably this is intended to refer to the "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingType. Is that correspondence specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to use the IDREF mechanism? (Does the idref only work in a single document, while this needs to work from a configure toward an advertisement?) Actually, in the definition of , the type of is IDREF. * Section 10.1: It would be helpful to say that the captureID serves as the way the capture is referenced from CaptureEncodings created by the consumer in Configure messages. OK. Text added. * Section 10.5.2: It would be helpful to note that the capture area has two "sides", and it implies which side is the "front". (The capture point must be on the side from which it is possible to view the left points as left of the right points, and the top points as above the bottom points.) OK, we added: "The four coplanar points are identified from the perspective of the capture device." * Section 10.8: This says "... captures coming from the same source." But I think it is possible for switching to include multiple sources concurrently. So I think that needs to be changed to "... same sources.". OK. Also, in this section what is "MP"? I guess it means Media Provider? Either this should be added to the definitions, or it should be expanded. (Note that this is also used elsewhere.) OK. Expanded everywhere. * Section 10.16: It would be good to specify the semantics attaching to each value. I.e.: static: SHOULD not change for the duration of the CLUE session, across multiple advertisements. dynamic: MAY change in each new advertisement. Can be assumed to remain unchanged until there is a new advertisement. highly-dynamic: MAY change dynamically, even between advertisements. The value in an advertisement is simply a snapshot of the location at the time of the advertisement. OK. Text added. * Section 21: While this may repeat the framework, I think this section should explain the the references in the captureEncoding are to captures and encodings defined in a separate XML document (an advertisement). OK. Done. * Section 22: What is "a drafty version" intended to mean??? Replaced with: The element includes all the information needed to represent the Media Provider's description of its telepresence capabilities according to the CLUE framework (i.e., it actually represents the body of the ADVERTISEMENT message). Thanks, Paul _______________________________________________ clue mailing list clue@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue ---- 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI Codice Fiscale: 00876220633 www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille -- ------=_NextPart_000_08D7_01D0B025.70563200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

About the xml for

 

<xs:attribute = name=3D"lang" = type=3D"xs:language"/>

 

 

 – where is type language defined? I did not see it in =
http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema<=
/pre>

 

 

Roni

 

 

 

From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roberta = Presta
Sent: 23 June, 2015 1:55 PM
To: = clue@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of = draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09

 

Dear all, =

we are = applying the modifications derived by your comments.
These are the = first ones coming from Paul's review.
We considered also Mark's reply = to Paul to answer as in the = following.
Regards,

Roberta


Il 09/06/2015 21:54, = Paul Kyzivat ha scritto:

I'm sorry for being so tardy in providing = a review of this document. I just now went through it:

* Section = 2:

Capture Device: says it converts audio and video. Should = probably also mention text.

 

OK. = Definition replaced with the one in the = framework.



MCC: I can't quite make sense of the this = part: "... the Stream coming from the encoding of the composing = Media Captures ...". I *think* the intent can be achieved by = replacing that with "... the contained media captures ...". =

 

OK. Replaced with "contained media = captures”.



Spatial = Information: s/generate/generates/, s/phisical/physical/ =

 

OK.




* Section 3:

General: I'm not = an xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting idiosyncracies that = seem odd to me, though clearly simply editor choices. I will not mention = those. It might be good for somebody who isn't an author but is an XML = expert to review the schema for style. Or perhaps it can be run through = an XML pretty-printer.

 

OK.



In the following:

   = The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of =
   the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a = Media Provider
   and the streams that are requested by a = Media Consumer given the
   Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT = ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]).

s/requested/available to be = requested/

 

I left = "are requested" since the intention was the one detected by = Mark in answering Paul's review.
("[Duckworth, Mark] I thought = it was referring to a Consumer's configure message, so it would be the = streams requested by a consumer.")


Policy for MCCs: is = just a string. How are we going to specify the available policies? =


OK. We added a regular = expression to define the content of the <policy> element in the = form of "token:index".

<xs:simpleType = name=3D"policyType">
 <xs:restriction = base=3D"xs:string">
      = <xs:pattern = value=3D"([a-zA-Z0-9])+[:]([0-9])+"/>
    = </xs:restriction>
</xs:simpleType>


<= /p>

MEDIA CAPTURE = TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of one. Shouldn't = multiple languages be allowed?

 

OK. = XML Schema definition updated = (maxOccurs=3D"unbounded”).



MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" = is just a string. How are we going to specify the available media types? =

 

As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 = of the document. Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media = types. We did  not want to put any constraints on the set of = possible media types.



PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this = before, but I still find it disturbing that we have a complexType named = "personType" that contains an element named = "personType". I guess it is syntactically and semantically = well defined, but it is certainly confusing to read the schema. I would = expect to get confusion in the future. I suggest replacing = personTypeType with personRoleType or personJobType or personDutyType, = and then change the element name to match. (I recall there were reasons = not to use Role.)

 

I am = OK with any change (e.g., from <personType> to = <personRole>), but the Framework document should be changed = accordingly. Our preferred option is to leave things as they are, = btw.


SPATIAL INFORMATION TYPE: Syntactically = this allows you to provide spatial information yet omit both the = capturePoint and the captureArea. IIUC it is an error to specify = neither. (Should have then specified non-spatially-defined.) Can the XML = be structured to prevent this misuse?

 

This = is actually specified in the text, rather than formally specified in the = XML schema.



MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and = "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. How about = "variable" and "dynamic"?


This is indeed how mobility type has been defined = in the Framework document. We’re OK with modifying such a = definition, but framework should be changed = accordingly.


  =

OTHER = CAPTURE TYPE: why doesn't this look exactly like TEXT CAPTURE TYPE? (It = differs by omission of anyAttribute.)

 

Actually, they do look identical in the current = version of the document.



CAPTURE POINT TYPE: it still seems odd to = me to call this a *point* when it actually can define a vector. How = about "captureVector"? Or, since the part that makes it a = vector is optional, maybe "captureOrigin". =

 

I am OK with captureOrigin. Does everybody = agree?


ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined = encID. Presumably this is intended to refer to the = "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingType. Is that = correspondence specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to use the = IDREF mechanism? (Does the idref only work in a single document, while = this needs to work from a configure toward an advertisement?) =

 

Actually, in the definition of <encodingIDList>, = the type of <encID> is IDREF.


* Section 10.1: =

It would be helpful to say that the captureID serves as the way = the capture is referenced from CaptureEncodings created by the consumer = in Configure messages.

 

OK. = Text added.



* Section 10.5.2:

It would be = helpful to note that the capture area has two "sides", and it = implies which side is the "front". (The capture point must be = on the side from which it is possible to view the left points as left of = the right points, and the top points as above the bottom points.) =

 

OK, we added: "The four coplanar points are = identified from the perspective of the capture = device.”



* Section 10.8:

This says = "... captures coming from the same source." But I think it is = possible for switching to include multiple sources concurrently. So I = think that needs to be changed to "... same sources.". =

 

OK.



Also, in this section what is = "MP"? I guess it means Media Provider? Either this should be = added to the definitions, or it should be expanded. (Note that this is = also used elsewhere.)

 

OK. = Expanded everywhere.



* Section 10.16:

It would be good = to specify the semantics attaching to each value. I.e.:

static: = SHOULD not change for the duration of the CLUE session, across multiple = advertisements.

dynamic: MAY change in each new advertisement. = Can be assumed to remain unchanged until there is a new advertisement. =

highly-dynamic: MAY change dynamically, even between = advertisements. The value in an advertisement is simply a snapshot of = the location at the time of the advertisement.

 

OK. = Text added.



* Section 21:

While this may = repeat the framework, I think this section should explain the the = references in the captureEncoding are to captures and encodings defined = in a separate XML document (an advertisement).

 

OK. = Done.



* Section 22:

What is "a = drafty version" intended to mean???

 

Replaced with:
The <clueInfo> element = includes all the information needed to represent the Media Provider's = description of its telepresence capabilities according to the CLUE = framework (i.e., it actually represents the body of the ADVERTISEMENT = message). 

  =

    Thanks, =
    Paul =

_______________________________________________
clue mailing = list
clue@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/clue

 

 



----
5x100= 0 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI
DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI
Codice = Fiscale: 00876220633
www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille

  ­­  

=
------=_NextPart_000_08D7_01D0B025.70563200-- From nobody Fri Jun 26 06:22:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E360A1B2E3A for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 06:22:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.261 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.261 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C49s2GG_h7J2 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 06:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brc2.unina.it (brc2.unina.it [192.132.34.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D91DF1B2E39 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 06:22:03 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1435324919-05f2751f639cf5d0001-dOUo1C Received: from smtp2.unina.it (smtp2.unina.it [192.132.34.62]) by brc2.unina.it with ESMTP id 9tcxcik9H2oI90vO (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:21:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: roberta.presta@unina.it X-Barracuda-Apparent-Source-IP: 192.132.34.62 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([193.206.114.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.unina.it (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t5QDLuFE000927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:21:57 +0200 Message-ID: <558D51F6.7020707@unina.it> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:21:58 +0200 From: Roberta Presta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Kyzivat References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> <5589B4E5.5090808@alum.mit.edu> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 In-Reply-To: <5589B4E5.5090808@alum.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Barracuda-Connect: smtp2.unina.it[192.132.34.62] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1435324919 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: AES256-SHA X-Barracuda-URL: http://192.132.34.42:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at unina.it X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=6.0 tests= X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.20204 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Archived-At: Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:22:07 -0000 Dear Paul, please find below my replies about the definition of and mediaType. Il 23/06/2015 21:35, Paul Kyzivat ha scritto: > On 6/23/15 6:55 AM, Roberta Presta wrote: > >>> Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the >>> available policies? >>> >> >> OK. We added a regular expression to define the content of the >> element in the form of "token:index". >> >> >> >> >> >> > > But which values are to be supported, what are the semantics of each, > and how is that set extended? > > I'm comfortable with registries because I understand them, so I would > be happy with an iana registry. But I guess that xml may have other > ways to handle this. (E.g. an enumeration. Could such a thing be > extended via definitions in another namespace?) > According to the provided definition, "token" is made by one or more lowercase or uppercase letters from a to z and numbers from 0 to 9, while "index" is made by one or more numbers from 0 to 9. "SoundLevel:3", for example, is a valid value. This definition is coherent with the framework one about the switching policy attribute ("The attribute is in the form of a token that indicates the policy, and an index representing an instance of the policy.") and allows for defining new policy names having a similar semantic. Two policies have been defined to date in the framework document, i.e., two switching behaviors have been described (SoundLevel and RoundRobin). In the future, you can create documents specifying new switching behaviors, associated with new token names, and you can keep on using this data model without any change. Otherwise, we can define an enumerative type for the token part of the switching policy name, containing just "SoundLevel" and "RoundRobin" as possible values. If new tokens need to be defined, you will need to change the data model document, by the way. >>> MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to >>> specify the available media types? >>> >> >> As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 of the document. >> Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media types. We did >> not want to put any constraints on the set of possible media types. > > The text in 10.2 appears to be an *example*, and the "..." isn't very > normative. What is the full range of possible values? > > One possibility is to reference RFC4566 for the definition used for > the m-line. > > But I think we would need additional clue specifications to support > more than audio/video/text. So we might want to say that *this* spec > only covers audio/video/text, but it may be extended in the future to > cover additional types allowed by RFC4566, and that receivers MUST be > able to accept (and presumably ignore) advertisements that contain > others that they don't understand. > The type definition for the mediaType attribute is intentionally as general as possible in order to not require changes in the data model when dealing with other media types besides "audio", "video", and "text". In other words, for other capture types, we can specify any other values in the mediaType attribute and be still compliant with the current data model specification. Clearly the interpretation of those other media capture types should be shared between implementations and/or defined somewhere, but the point is that, by this way, using new values do not affect the pre-defined structure of the data model. This is somehow the same motivation provided above for the definition of the type. What do you think about these possibilities? Roberta ---- 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI DELL'UNIVERSIT DI NAPOLI Codice Fiscale: 00876220633 www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille From nobody Fri Jun 26 06:45:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9663F1B2E8D for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 06:45:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.34 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.34 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_28=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wiT4a-w4BlPz for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 06:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brc2.unina.it (brc2.unina.it [192.132.34.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CDF31A8792 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 06:45:17 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1435326311-05f2751f609d4b80001-dOUo1C Received: from smtp2.unina.it (smtp2.unina.it [192.132.34.62]) by brc2.unina.it with ESMTP id CI33vx5LTzvjKxlm (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:45:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: roberta.presta@unina.it X-Barracuda-Apparent-Source-IP: 192.132.34.62 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([193.206.114.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.unina.it (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t5QDjBVQ003509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:45:11 +0200 Message-ID: <558D5769.9070603@unina.it> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:45:13 +0200 From: Roberta Presta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roni Even , clue@ietf.org References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> <08d601d0b00c$4b077360$e1165a20$@gmail.com> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 In-Reply-To: <08d601d0b00c$4b077360$e1165a20$@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080908060207020709090508" X-Barracuda-Connect: smtp2.unina.it[192.132.34.62] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1435326311 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: AES256-SHA X-Barracuda-URL: http://192.132.34.42:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at unina.it X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=6.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.20204 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:45:20 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080908060207020709090508 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Roni, I found the definition of xs:language here: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#language This document is a W3C Recommendation of 2012 which is cited in the information you can find at http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema. Roberta Il 26/06/2015 14:33, Roni Even ha scritto: > > Hi, > > About the xml for > > > > where is type language defined? I did not see it inhttp://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema > > Roni > > *From:*clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Roberta Presta > *Sent:* 23 June, 2015 1:55 PM > *To:* clue@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of > draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 > > Dear all, > > we are applying the modifications derived by your comments. > These are the first ones coming from Paul's review. > We considered also Mark's reply to Paul to answer as in the following. > Regards, > > Roberta > > > Il 09/06/2015 21:54, Paul Kyzivat ha scritto: > > I'm sorry for being so tardy in providing a review of this > document. I just now went through it: > > * Section 2: > > Capture Device: says it converts audio and video. Should probably > also mention text. > > OK. Definition replaced with the one in the framework. > > > > MCC: I can't quite make sense of the this part: "... the Stream coming > from the encoding of the composing Media Captures ...". I *think* the > intent can be achieved by replacing that with "... the contained media > captures ...". > > OK. Replaced with "contained media captures. > > > > Spatial Information: s/generate/generates/, s/phisical/physical/ > > OK. > > > > > * Section 3: > > General: I'm not an xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting > idiosyncracies that seem odd to me, though clearly simply editor > choices. I will not mention those. It might be good for somebody who > isn't an author but is an XML expert to review the schema for style. > Or perhaps it can be run through an XML pretty-printer. > > OK. > > > > In the following: > > The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of > the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a Media Provider > and the streams that are requested by a Media Consumer given the > Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]). > > s/requested/available to be requested/ > > I left "are requested" since the intention was the one detected by > Mark in answering Paul's review. > ("[Duckworth, Mark] I thought it was referring to a Consumer's > configure message, so it would be the streams requested by a consumer.") > > > Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the > available policies? > > > OK. We added a regular expression to define the content of the > element in the form of "token:index". > > > > > > > > > MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of > one. Shouldn't multiple languages be allowed? > > OK. XML Schema definition updated (maxOccurs="unbounded). > > > > MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to > specify the available media types? > > As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 of the document. > Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media types. We did > not want to put any constraints on the set of possible media types. > > > > PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this before, but I still find it > disturbing that we have a complexType named "personType" that contains > an element named "personType". I guess it is syntactically and > semantically well defined, but it is certainly confusing to read the > schema. I would expect to get confusion in the future. I suggest > replacing personTypeType with personRoleType or personJobType or > personDutyType, and then change the element name to match. (I recall > there were reasons not to use Role.) > > I am OK with any change (e.g., from to ), but > the Framework document should be changed accordingly. Our preferred > option is to leave things as they are, btw. > > > SPATIAL INFORMATION TYPE: Syntactically this allows you to provide > spatial information yet omit both the capturePoint and the > captureArea. IIUC it is an error to specify neither. (Should have then > specified non-spatially-defined.) Can the XML be structured to prevent > this misuse? > > This is actually specified in the text, rather than formally specified > in the XML schema. > > * > > * > > MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. > How about "variable" and "dynamic"? > > > This is indeed how mobility type has been defined in the Framework > document. Were OK with modifying such a definition, but framework > should be changed accordingly. > > > OTHER CAPTURE TYPE: why doesn't this look exactly like TEXT CAPTURE > TYPE? (It differs by omission of anyAttribute.) > > Actually, they do look identical in the current version of the document. > > > > CAPTURE POINT TYPE: it still seems odd to me to call this a *point* > when it actually can define a vector. How about "captureVector"? Or, > since the part that makes it a vector is optional, maybe "captureOrigin". > > I am OK with captureOrigin. Does everybody agree? > > > ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined encID. Presumably this is intended > to refer to the "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingType. Is that > correspondence specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to use the > IDREF mechanism? (Does the idref only work in a single document, while > this needs to work from a configure toward an advertisement?) > > Actually, in the definition of , the type of > is IDREF. > > > * Section 10.1: > > It would be helpful to say that the captureID serves as the way the > capture is referenced from CaptureEncodings created by the consumer in > Configure messages. > > OK. Text added. > > > > * Section 10.5.2: > > It would be helpful to note that the capture area has two "sides", and > it implies which side is the "front". (The capture point must be on > the side from which it is possible to view the left points as left of > the right points, and the top points as above the bottom points.) > > OK, we added: "The four coplanar points are identified from the > perspective of the capture device. > > > > * Section 10.8: > > This says "... captures coming from the same source." But I think it > is possible for switching to include multiple sources concurrently. So > I think that needs to be changed to "... same sources.". > > OK. > > > > Also, in this section what is "MP"? I guess it means Media Provider? > Either this should be added to the definitions, or it should be > expanded. (Note that this is also used elsewhere.) > > OK. Expanded everywhere. > > > > * Section 10.16: > > It would be good to specify the semantics attaching to each value. I.e.: > > static: SHOULD not change for the duration of the CLUE session, across > multiple advertisements. > > dynamic: MAY change in each new advertisement. Can be assumed to > remain unchanged until there is a new advertisement. > > highly-dynamic: MAY change dynamically, even between advertisements. > The value in an advertisement is simply a snapshot of the location at > the time of the advertisement. > > OK. Text added. > > > > * Section 21: > > While this may repeat the framework, I think this section should > explain the the references in the captureEncoding are to captures and > encodings defined in a separate XML document (an advertisement). > > OK. Done. > > > > * Section 22: > > What is "a drafty version" intended to mean??? > > Replaced with: > The element includes all the information needed to > represent the Media Provider's description of its telepresence > capabilities according to the CLUE framework (i.e., it actually > represents the body of the ADVERTISEMENT message). > > > > Thanks, > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > > > > ---- > 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI > DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI > Codice Fiscale: 00876220633 > www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille > > > ---- 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI DELL'UNIVERSIT DI NAPOLI Codice Fiscale: 00876220633 www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille --------------080908060207020709090508 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Roni,

I found the definition of xs:language here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#language
This document is a W3C Recommendation of 2012 which is cited in the information you can find at http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema.

Roberta


Il 26/06/2015 14:33, Roni Even ha scritto:

Hi,

About the xml for

<xs:attribute name="lang" type="xs:language"/>

  where is type language defined? I did not see it in http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema

Roni

From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roberta Presta
Sent: 23 June, 2015 1:55 PM
To: clue@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09

Dear all,

we are applying the modifications derived by your comments.
These are the first ones coming from Paul's review.
We considered also Mark's reply to Paul to answer as in the following.
Regards,

Roberta


Il 09/06/2015 21:54, Paul Kyzivat ha scritto:

I'm sorry for being so tardy in providing a review of this document. I just now went through it:

* Section 2:

Capture Device: says it converts audio and video. Should probably also mention text.

OK. Definition replaced with the one in the framework.



MCC: I can't quite make sense of the this part: "... the Stream coming from the encoding of the composing Media Captures ...". I *think* the intent can be achieved by replacing that with "... the contained media captures ...".

OK. Replaced with "contained media captures.



Spatial Information: s/generate/generates/, s/phisical/physical/

OK.




* Section 3:

General: I'm not an xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting idiosyncracies that seem odd to me, though clearly simply editor choices. I will not mention those. It might be good for somebody who isn't an author but is an XML expert to review the schema for style. Or perhaps it can be run through an XML pretty-printer.

OK.



In the following:

The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of
the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a Media Provider
and the streams that are requested by a Media Consumer given the
Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]).

s/requested/available to be requested/

I left "are requested" since the intention was the one detected by Mark in answering Paul's review.
("[Duckworth, Mark] I thought it was referring to a Consumer's configure message, so it would be the streams requested by a consumer.")


Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the available policies?


OK. We added a regular expression to define the content of the <policy> element in the form of "token:index".

<xs:simpleType name="policyType">
<xs:restriction base="xs:string">
<xs:pattern value="([a-zA-Z0-9])+[:]([0-9])+"/>
</xs:restriction>
</xs:simpleType>


MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of one. Shouldn't multiple languages be allowed?

OK. XML Schema definition updated (maxOccurs="unbounded).



MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to specify the available media types?

As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 of the document. Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media types. We did not want to put any constraints on the set of possible media types.



PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this before, but I still find it disturbing that we have a complexType named "personType" that contains an element named "personType". I guess it is syntactically and semantically well defined, but it is certainly confusing to read the schema. I would expect to get confusion in the future. I suggest replacing personTypeType with personRoleType or personJobType or personDutyType, and then change the element name to match. (I recall there were reasons not to use Role.)

I am OK with any change (e.g., from <personType> to <personRole>), but the Framework document should be changed accordingly.Our preferred option is to leave things as they are, btw.


SPATIAL INFORMATION TYPE: Syntactically this allows you to provide spatial information yet omit both the capturePoint and the captureArea. IIUC it is an error to specify neither. (Should have then specified non-spatially-defined.) Can the XML be structured to prevent this misuse?

This is actually specified in the text, rather than formally specified in the XML schema.



MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. How about "variable" and "dynamic"?


This is indeed how mobility type has been defined in the Framework document. Were OK with modifying such a definition, but framework should be changed accordingly.


OTHER CAPTURE TYPE: why doesn't this look exactly like TEXT CAPTURE TYPE? (It differs by omission of anyAttribute.)

Actually, they do look identical in the current version of the document.



CAPTURE POINT TYPE: it still seems odd to me to call this a *point* when it actually can define a vector. How about "captureVector"? Or, since the part that makes it a vector is optional, maybe "captureOrigin".

I am OK with captureOrigin. Does everybody agree?


ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined encID. Presumably this is intended to refer to the "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingType. Is that correspondence specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to use the IDREF mechanism? (Does the idref only work in a single document, while this needs to work from a configure toward an advertisement?)

Actually, in the definition of <encodingIDList>, the type of <encID> is IDREF.


* Section 10.1:

It would be helpful to say that the captureID serves as the way the capture is referenced from CaptureEncodings created by the consumer in Configure messages.

OK. Text added.



* Section 10.5.2:

It would be helpful to note that the capture area has two "sides", and it implies which side is the "front". (The capture point must be on the side from which it is possible to view the left points as left of the right points, and the top points as above the bottom points.)

OK, we added: "The four coplanar points are identified from the perspective of the capture device.



* Section 10.8:

This says "... captures coming from the same source." But I think it is possible for switching to include multiple sources concurrently. So I think that needs to be changed to "... same sources.".

OK.



Also, in this section what is "MP"? I guess it means Media Provider? Either this should be added to the definitions, or it should be expanded. (Note that this is also used elsewhere.)

OK. Expanded everywhere.



* Section 10.16:

It would be good to specify the semantics attaching to each value. I.e.:

static: SHOULD not change for the duration of the CLUE session, across multiple advertisements.

dynamic: MAY change in each new advertisement. Can be assumed to remain unchanged until there is a new advertisement.

highly-dynamic: MAY change dynamically, even between advertisements. The value in an advertisement is simply a snapshot of the location at the time of the advertisement.

OK. Text added.



* Section 21:

While this may repeat the framework, I think this section should explain the the references in the captureEncoding are to captures and encodings defined in a separate XML document (an advertisement).

OK. Done.



* Section 22:

What is "a drafty version" intended to mean???

Replaced with:
The <clueInfo> element includes all the information needed to represent the Media Provider's description of its telepresence capabilities according to the CLUE framework (i.e., it actually represents the body of the ADVERTISEMENT message).



Thanks,
Paul

_______________________________________________
clue mailing list
clue@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue



----
5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI
DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI
Codice Fiscale: 00876220633
www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille





----
5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI
DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI
Codice Fiscale: 00876220633
www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille

  ­­   --------------080908060207020709090508-- From nobody Fri Jun 26 08:12:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A731B30B3 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 08:12:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_28=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uZ4H1ZPQ_Yfl for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 08:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x235.google.com (mail-wi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9ACE11B3098 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 08:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wiwl6 with SMTP id l6so47940806wiw.0 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 08:12:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:thread-index:content-language; bh=3UazdKFO84J+eIpU4PBToBuittKD8aKOGZzKLt8Yz1s=; b=LXqSTe0MVWLtdmq/GhICWXmNVZtfpWcGrN3mzohux/pak1ZWtBYSlo8HSFJkc3oU8I KiDT8iDkMq82Ztdq2bf2L4ZrD5/G45/y2VlbIf/ZO5LHhPLPWX7xVZXv1912h3fjtrAH WqssG36lJrlP59LRdTRC9bQ7emqlG5KR/njNkGbW3GOhTBVgtYa9K3INaJTarv5cT1vr Qng2ZTdbn8A1KyIlaYBblisyCcVdWc+wCR/DEvMiiQ9VrDVxOecqAN7RnMQB3FVsaKb/ jt4pinFKrKOoPuQaUmsHI2peU0qPzxhnkakFxr+Hv8A5PwAZtZzUtG78sMs1C+6SI9bB /lIw== X-Received: by 10.194.95.41 with SMTP id dh9mr3864233wjb.55.1435331548349; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 08:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniE (bzq-79-181-27-130.red.bezeqint.net. [79.181.27.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id v3sm2636506wiz.14.2015.06.26.08.12.25 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 08:12:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Roberta Presta'" , References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> <08d601d0b00c$4b077360$e1165a20$@gmail.com> <558D5769.9070603@unina.it> In-Reply-To: <558D5769.9070603@unina.it> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 18:12:20 +0300 Message-ID: <08ea01d0b022$81c7dc80$85579580$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_08EB_01D0B03B.A71896F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLwtexFsBGE5FYee9oNNNPSNt328QF0fRUoAb9W2GgBpRuqIQKKxeT4AOB87iebPLdhwA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:12:36 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_08EB_01D0B03B.A71896F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Roberta, Thanks, found it and it is in line with the framework definition Roni From: Roberta Presta [mailto:roberta.presta@unina.it] Sent: 26 June, 2015 4:45 PM To: Roni Even; clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 Hi Roni, I found the definition of xs:language here: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#language This document is a W3C Recommendation of 2012 which is cited in the information you can find at http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema. Roberta Il 26/06/2015 14:33, Roni Even ha scritto: Hi, About the xml for - where is type language defined? I did not see it in http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema Roni From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roberta Presta Sent: 23 June, 2015 1:55 PM To: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 Dear all, we are applying the modifications derived by your comments. These are the first ones coming from Paul's review. We considered also Mark's reply to Paul to answer as in the following. Regards, Roberta Il 09/06/2015 21:54, Paul Kyzivat ha scritto: I'm sorry for being so tardy in providing a review of this document. I just now went through it: * Section 2: Capture Device: says it converts audio and video. Should probably also mention text. OK. Definition replaced with the one in the framework. MCC: I can't quite make sense of the this part: "... the Stream coming from the encoding of the composing Media Captures ...". I *think* the intent can be achieved by replacing that with "... the contained media captures ...". OK. Replaced with "contained media captures". Spatial Information: s/generate/generates/, s/phisical/physical/ OK. * Section 3: General: I'm not an xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting idiosyncracies that seem odd to me, though clearly simply editor choices. I will not mention those. It might be good for somebody who isn't an author but is an XML expert to review the schema for style. Or perhaps it can be run through an XML pretty-printer. OK. In the following: The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a Media Provider and the streams that are requested by a Media Consumer given the Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]). s/requested/available to be requested/ I left "are requested" since the intention was the one detected by Mark in answering Paul's review. ("[Duckworth, Mark] I thought it was referring to a Consumer's configure message, so it would be the streams requested by a consumer.") Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the available policies? OK. We added a regular expression to define the content of the element in the form of "token:index". MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of one. Shouldn't multiple languages be allowed? OK. XML Schema definition updated (maxOccurs="unbounded"). MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to specify the available media types? As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 of the document. Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media types. We did not want to put any constraints on the set of possible media types. PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this before, but I still find it disturbing that we have a complexType named "personType" that contains an element named "personType". I guess it is syntactically and semantically well defined, but it is certainly confusing to read the schema. I would expect to get confusion in the future. I suggest replacing personTypeType with personRoleType or personJobType or personDutyType, and then change the element name to match. (I recall there were reasons not to use Role.) I am OK with any change (e.g., from to ), but the Framework document should be changed accordingly. Our preferred option is to leave things as they are, btw. SPATIAL INFORMATION TYPE: Syntactically this allows you to provide spatial information yet omit both the capturePoint and the captureArea. IIUC it is an error to specify neither. (Should have then specified non-spatially-defined.) Can the XML be structured to prevent this misuse? This is actually specified in the text, rather than formally specified in the XML schema. MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. How about "variable" and "dynamic"? This is indeed how mobility type has been defined in the Framework document. We're OK with modifying such a definition, but framework should be changed accordingly. OTHER CAPTURE TYPE: why doesn't this look exactly like TEXT CAPTURE TYPE? (It differs by omission of anyAttribute.) Actually, they do look identical in the current version of the document. CAPTURE POINT TYPE: it still seems odd to me to call this a *point* when it actually can define a vector. How about "captureVector"? Or, since the part that makes it a vector is optional, maybe "captureOrigin". I am OK with captureOrigin. Does everybody agree? ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined encID. Presumably this is intended to refer to the "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingType. Is that correspondence specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to use the IDREF mechanism? (Does the idref only work in a single document, while this needs to work from a configure toward an advertisement?) Actually, in the definition of , the type of is IDREF. * Section 10.1: It would be helpful to say that the captureID serves as the way the capture is referenced from CaptureEncodings created by the consumer in Configure messages. OK. Text added. * Section 10.5.2: It would be helpful to note that the capture area has two "sides", and it implies which side is the "front". (The capture point must be on the side from which it is possible to view the left points as left of the right points, and the top points as above the bottom points.) OK, we added: "The four coplanar points are identified from the perspective of the capture device." * Section 10.8: This says "... captures coming from the same source." But I think it is possible for switching to include multiple sources concurrently. So I think that needs to be changed to "... same sources.". OK. Also, in this section what is "MP"? I guess it means Media Provider? Either this should be added to the definitions, or it should be expanded. (Note that this is also used elsewhere.) OK. Expanded everywhere. * Section 10.16: It would be good to specify the semantics attaching to each value. I.e.: static: SHOULD not change for the duration of the CLUE session, across multiple advertisements. dynamic: MAY change in each new advertisement. Can be assumed to remain unchanged until there is a new advertisement. highly-dynamic: MAY change dynamically, even between advertisements. The value in an advertisement is simply a snapshot of the location at the time of the advertisement. OK. Text added. * Section 21: While this may repeat the framework, I think this section should explain the the references in the captureEncoding are to captures and encodings defined in a separate XML document (an advertisement). OK. Done. * Section 22: What is "a drafty version" intended to mean??? Replaced with: The element includes all the information needed to represent the Media Provider's description of its telepresence capabilities according to the CLUE framework (i.e., it actually represents the body of the ADVERTISEMENT message). Thanks, Paul _______________________________________________ clue mailing list clue@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue ---- 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI Codice Fiscale: 00876220633 www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille -- ---- 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI Codice Fiscale: 00876220633 www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille -- ------=_NextPart_000_08EB_01D0B03B.A71896F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Roberta,

Thanks, found it and it is in line with the framework = definition

 

Roni

 

From: Roberta Presta [mailto:roberta.presta@unina.it]
Sent: = 26 June, 2015 4:45 PM
To: Roni Even; = clue@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of = draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09

 

Hi = Roni,

I found the definition of xs:language here:
http://www.w3.org/T= R/xmlschema11-2/#language
This document is a W3C Recommendation = of 2012 which is cited in the information you can find at http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchem= a.

Roberta


Il 26/06/2015 14:33, Roni Even ha = scritto:

Hi,

About the xml for

 

<xs:attribute = name=3D"lang" = type=3D"xs:language"/>

 

 

 – where is type language defined? I did not see it in =
http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchem=
a

 

 

Roni

 

 

 

From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Roberta Presta
Sent: 23 June, 2015 1:55 = PM
To: clue@ietf.org
Subject: Re: = [clue] Paul's WGLC review of = draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09

 

Dear all, =

we are = applying the modifications derived by your comments.
These are the = first ones coming from Paul's review.
We considered also Mark's reply = to Paul to answer as in the = following.
Regards,

Roberta


Il 09/06/2015 21:54, = Paul Kyzivat ha scritto:

I'm sorry for being so tardy in providing = a review of this document. I just now went through it:

* Section = 2:

Capture Device: says it converts audio and video. Should = probably also mention text.

 

OK. = Definition replaced with the one in the = framework.




MCC: I can't quite make sense of the this = part: "... the Stream coming from the encoding of the composing = Media Captures ...". I *think* the intent can be achieved by = replacing that with "... the contained media captures ...". =

 

OK. Replaced with "contained media = captures”.




Spatial Information: s/generate/generates/, = s/phisical/physical/

 

OK.





* Section 3:

General: I'm not = an xml expert. I see odds and ends of formatting idiosyncracies that = seem odd to me, though clearly simply editor choices. I will not mention = those. It might be good for somebody who isn't an author but is an XML = expert to review the schema for style. Or perhaps it can be run through = an XML pretty-printer.

 

OK.




In the following:

   = The element and attribute definitions are formal representations of =
   the concepts needed to describe the capabilities of a = Media Provider
   and the streams that are requested by a = Media Consumer given the
   Media Provider's ADVERTISEMENT = ([I-D.ietf-clue-protocol]).

s/requested/available to be = requested/

 

I left = "are requested" since the intention was the one detected by = Mark in answering Paul's review.
("[Duckworth, Mark] I thought = it was referring to a Consumer's configure message, so it would be the = streams requested by a consumer.")



Policy for MCCs: is = just a string. How are we going to specify the available policies? =


OK. We added a regular = expression to define the content of the <policy> element in the = form of "token:index".

<xs:simpleType = name=3D"policyType">
 <xs:restriction = base=3D"xs:string">
      = <xs:pattern = value=3D"([a-zA-Z0-9])+[:]([0-9])+"/>
    = </xs:restriction>
</xs:simpleType>



MEDIA CAPTURE = TYPE: Language is currently optional, but with max of one. Shouldn't = multiple languages be allowed?

 

OK. = XML Schema definition updated = (maxOccurs=3D"unbounded”).




MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" = is just a string. How are we going to specify the available media types? =

 

As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 = of the document. Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media = types. We did  not want to put any constraints on the set of = possible media types.




PERSON TYPE: I know we discussed this = before, but I still find it disturbing that we have a complexType named = "personType" that contains an element named = "personType". I guess it is syntactically and semantically = well defined, but it is certainly confusing to read the schema. I would = expect to get confusion in the future. I suggest replacing = personTypeType with personRoleType or personJobType or personDutyType, = and then change the element name to match. (I recall there were reasons = not to use Role.)

 

I am = OK with any change (e.g., from <personType> to = <personRole>), but the Framework document should be changed = accordingly. Our preferred option is to leave things as they are, = btw.



SPATIAL INFORMATION TYPE: Syntactically = this allows you to provide spatial information yet omit both the = capturePoint and the captureArea. IIUC it is an error to specify = neither. (Should have then specified non-spatially-defined.) Can the XML = be structured to prevent this misuse?

 

This = is actually specified in the text, rather than formally specified in the = XML schema.




MOBILITY TYPE: having "dynamic" and = "highly-dynamic" seems confusing. How about = "variable" and "dynamic"?


This is indeed how mobility type has been defined = in the Framework document. We’re OK with modifying such a = definition, but framework should be changed = accordingly.


  =

OTHER = CAPTURE TYPE: why doesn't this look exactly like TEXT CAPTURE TYPE? (It = differs by omission of anyAttribute.)

 

Actually, they do look identical in the current = version of the document.




CAPTURE POINT TYPE: it still seems odd to = me to call this a *point* when it actually can define a vector. How = about "captureVector"? Or, since the part that makes it a = vector is optional, maybe "captureOrigin". =

 

I am OK with captureOrigin. Does everybody = agree?



ENCODING ID LIST TYPE: this defined = encID. Presumably this is intended to refer to the = "encodingID" elementof captureEncodingType. Is that = correspondence specified somewhere? Is there a reason not to use the = IDREF mechanism? (Does the idref only work in a single document, while = this needs to work from a configure toward an advertisement?) =

 

Actually, in the definition of <encodingIDList>, = the type of <encID> is IDREF.



* Section 10.1: =

It would be helpful to say that the captureID serves as the way = the capture is referenced from CaptureEncodings created by the consumer = in Configure messages.

 

OK. = Text added.




* Section 10.5.2:

It would be = helpful to note that the capture area has two "sides", and it = implies which side is the "front". (The capture point must be = on the side from which it is possible to view the left points as left of = the right points, and the top points as above the bottom points.) =

 

OK, we added: "The four coplanar points are = identified from the perspective of the capture = device.”




* Section 10.8:

This says = "... captures coming from the same source." But I think it is = possible for switching to include multiple sources concurrently. So I = think that needs to be changed to "... same sources.". =

 

OK.




Also, in this section what is = "MP"? I guess it means Media Provider? Either this should be = added to the definitions, or it should be expanded. (Note that this is = also used elsewhere.)

 

OK. = Expanded everywhere.




* Section 10.16:

It would be good = to specify the semantics attaching to each value. I.e.:

static: = SHOULD not change for the duration of the CLUE session, across multiple = advertisements.

dynamic: MAY change in each new advertisement. = Can be assumed to remain unchanged until there is a new advertisement. =

highly-dynamic: MAY change dynamically, even between = advertisements. The value in an advertisement is simply a snapshot of = the location at the time of the advertisement.

 

OK. = Text added.




* Section 21:

While this may = repeat the framework, I think this section should explain the the = references in the captureEncoding are to captures and encodings defined = in a separate XML document (an advertisement).

 

OK. = Done.




* Section 22:

What is "a = drafty version" intended to mean???

 

Replaced with:
The <clueInfo> element = includes all the information needed to represent the Media Provider's = description of its telepresence capabilities according to the CLUE = framework (i.e., it actually represents the body of the ADVERTISEMENT = message). 

  =


    Thanks, =
    Paul =

_______________________________________________
clue mailing = list
clue@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/clue

 

 




----
5x100= 0 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI
DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI
Codice = Fiscale: 00876220633
www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille

  ­­  

=




----
5x100= 0 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI
DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI
Codice = Fiscale: 00876220633
www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille

  ­­  

=
------=_NextPart_000_08EB_01D0B03B.A71896F0-- From nobody Fri Jun 26 09:41:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C7B21A87C4 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 09:41:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.235 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, GB_I_LETTER=-2, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id irmV50DUQ5jw for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 09:41:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5233D1A8911 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 09:41:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.97]) by resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id l4gd1q00B26dK1R014hcYS; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 16:41:36 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.151]) by resomta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id l4hc1q0043Ge9ey014hcx7; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 16:41:36 +0000 Message-ID: <558D80BE.4040401@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 12:41:34 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roberta Presta References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> <5589B4E5.5090808@alum.mit.edu> <558D51F6.7020707@unina.it> In-Reply-To: <558D51F6.7020707@unina.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1435336896; bh=xG6/KhQJRXH+AncIX4pPD3G5vN+8rVWzS8iZH4DRddA=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=hMJhR6Ffk4EFMYMQH8ViBpuDyht0kZpi8OkPnkYbCeBnBBYWW1v4CXI+B3/j+U7gu 51V2n5khPVrqAd4/PnEtgahmms+kIp8ZXViamg6a5Fd5vnxPj+41Bu8SMeMUXgQ8R5 5hSAjgxMAKtXv7PjgA4nGjfn9FmB8ZYvZ0mrK+CcXSdUn75JiSmcLgiciM1A1xT9Du L7MVZRvwEVddMRhIdw3QaFktOH/llEpQXUzRCoZz3omQZCwMfPUZOzh6k5MgDOuMLR wKesD31+g+0yUy8F53ECTmDNqSbc8tObXCpx5ZT0TWal5D/R+ZTX0oxDSrhEF2wmC8 +/I5hihRVV1GQ== Archived-At: Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 16:41:39 -0000 More inline... On 6/26/15 9:21 AM, Roberta Presta wrote: > Dear Paul, > > please find below my replies about the definition of and mediaType. My questions aren't necessarily schema issues, but they are certainly clue issues. We can solve them in the schema, or elsewhere. In both cases there is need to know the set of defined values, the semantics associated with each value, and some mechanism for adding new values while avoiding conflicts over a name. For policy, a registry is an obvious solution. The schema document and/or one of the other normative clue documents should associate that with the syntax. I think it is harder for mediaType. As I noted, an obvious answer is to simply refer to the SDP definition. But I think that is inadequate, because there are types that are valid in SDP (e.g., application) that we have no clue how to process. Possibly we could restrict to types valid in SDP that use RTP for transport. But even then, if somebody were to define smell-o-vision over RTP we wouldn't know how to handle it. (What sort of spatial info would be appropriate?) So I suspect there must be clue-specific semantics for each supported mediaType. We could define a registry for those too. But it would be hard work to come up with rules about what needs to be specified for a new type. The easy way out is simply to say we are currently restricted to audio, video, and rtt, and that adding new types requires standards action. We could still leave it as a token in the xml. Thanks, Paul >>> OK. We added a regular expression to define the content of the >>> element in the form of "token:index". >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> But which values are to be supported, what are the semantics of each, >> and how is that set extended? >> >> I'm comfortable with registries because I understand them, so I would >> be happy with an iana registry. But I guess that xml may have other >> ways to handle this. (E.g. an enumeration. Could such a thing be >> extended via definitions in another namespace?) >> > > According to the provided definition, "token" is made by one or more > lowercase or uppercase letters from a to z and numbers from 0 to 9, > while "index" is made by one or more numbers from 0 to 9. > "SoundLevel:3", for example, is a valid value. > This definition is coherent with the framework one about the switching > policy attribute ("The attribute is in the form of a token that > indicates the policy, and an index representing an instance of the > policy.") and allows for defining new policy names having a similar > semantic. > Two policies have been defined to date in the framework document, i.e., > two switching behaviors have been described (SoundLevel and RoundRobin). > In the future, you can create documents specifying new switching > behaviors, associated with new token names, and you can keep on using > this data model without any change. > > Otherwise, we can define an enumerative type for the token part of the > switching policy name, containing just "SoundLevel" and "RoundRobin" as > possible values. > If new tokens need to be defined, you will need to change the data model > document, by the way. > > >>>> MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to >>>> specify the available media types? >>>> >>> >>> As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 of the document. >>> Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media types. We did >>> not want to put any constraints on the set of possible media types. >> >> The text in 10.2 appears to be an *example*, and the "..." isn't very >> normative. What is the full range of possible values? >> >> One possibility is to reference RFC4566 for the definition used for >> the m-line. >> >> But I think we would need additional clue specifications to support >> more than audio/video/text. So we might want to say that *this* spec >> only covers audio/video/text, but it may be extended in the future to >> cover additional types allowed by RFC4566, and that receivers MUST be >> able to accept (and presumably ignore) advertisements that contain >> others that they don't understand. >> > The type definition for the mediaType attribute is intentionally as > general as possible in order to not require changes in the data model > when dealing with other media types besides "audio", "video", and > "text". In other words, for other capture types, we can specify any > other values in the mediaType attribute and be still compliant with the > current data model specification. Clearly the interpretation of those > other media capture types should be shared between implementations > and/or defined somewhere, but the point is that, by this way, using new > values do not affect the pre-defined structure of the data model. > This is somehow the same motivation provided above for the definition of > the type. > > What do you think about these possibilities? > > Roberta > > > ---- > 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI > DELL'UNIVERSIT DI NAPOLI > Codice Fiscale: 00876220633 > www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille > > From nobody Mon Jun 29 09:57:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925341B2B34 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 09:57:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.47 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.47 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_25=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_26=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_27=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BddLrmETJaF8 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 09:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brc2.unina.it (brc2.unina.it [192.132.34.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CB921B2B32 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 09:57:06 -0700 (PDT) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1435597017-05f2751f60a9bfd0001-dOUo1C Received: from smtp2.unina.it (smtp2.unina.it [192.132.34.62]) by brc2.unina.it with ESMTP id AlTLAUC9CpHtAcZj (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 29 Jun 2015 18:56:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: spromano@unina.it X-Barracuda-Apparent-Source-IP: 192.132.34.62 Received: from [100.102.170.62] ([100.102.170.62]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.unina.it (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t5TGuu9s032767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 29 Jun 2015 18:56:56 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_662CA45F-D1D5-420C-95EF-4690A7C4384C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: Simon Pietro Romano X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 18:56:55 +0200 Message-Id: <54436892-CE9B-428E-B5B0-CDBEA857931E@unina.it> References: To: "Rob Hansen (rohanse2)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) X-Barracuda-Connect: smtp2.unina.it[192.132.34.62] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1435597018 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: AES256-SHA X-Barracuda-URL: http://192.132.34.42:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi Received-SPF: softfail (unina.it: domain of transitioning spromano@unina.it does not designate 100.102.170.62 as permitted sender) X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at unina.it X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.82 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.82 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=6.0 tests=BSF_SC0_MISMATCH_TO, BSF_SPF_SOFTFAIL, HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE_2 X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.20296 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 BSF_SC0_MISMATCH_TO Envelope rcpt doesn't match header 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.00 MIME_QP_LONG_LINE RAW: Quoted-printable line longer than 76 chars 0.82 MIME_QP_LONG_LINE_2 RAW: Quoted-printable line longer than 76 chars 0.00 BSF_SPF_SOFTFAIL Custom Rule SPF Softfail Archived-At: Cc: CLUE Subject: Re: [clue] Rob's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 16:57:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_662CA45F-D1D5-420C-95EF-4690A7C4384C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Bob, thanks a lot for your thorough review! See in-line ([SPR]) for some comments and replies=E2=80=A6 > Section 10.2 > We currently say that "The "mediaType" attribute is a mandatory attribute= specifying the media type of the capture ("audio", "video", "text",...)", = and we have specific subsections for audio, video and text. However, for a = number of elements, such as , that are in the generic section,= whether they are mandatory, optional or not allowed are only defined for a= udio and video. I think their behaviour for text should be defined too (pre= tty much always MUST NOT be used), and we should be explicit in section 14 = that new media type extensions must also define how these elements are to b= e used. [SPR] OK. We modified the draft accordingly. >=20 > Section 10.5.2. > Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points , , , and , should we mandate that they ac= tually represent this, since otherwise someone could potentially put above while the far end might assume they are laid out as = per their names, or should we rename them to three or four generic points t= hat can be anything so long as they are coplanar? [SPR] This has already been discussed (and solved) on the ML. The document = is in-line with what has been agreed upon in that thread. > Main review is as follows, in order: >=20 > Section 2. > "...except for the "CLUE Participant" definition (which is still under di= scussion)" - need to remove all in-progress text before completing WGLC [SPR] Done. No in-progress text should be now present in the document. > The list of terms is mostly alphabetically ordered, but a few elements ar= e out of place [SPR] Done. Definitions have been properly sorted. > "Media Captures belonging to the same Capture Scene View can be sent simu= ltaneously by the Media Provider." - Media Captures *not* belonging to the = same CSV can potentially also be sent simultaneously by the Media Provider;= it's the simultaneous sets that defines simultaneity. I think the definiti= on works fine without this line, or it should be rewritten to make clear th= at CSVs are intended (but not mandatory) sets of Captures. >=20 > " CLUE Participant: This term is not imported from the framework termino= logy" - not sure we need to say that here (or if we do, should probably be = after we've explained what it is.) >=20 > "for each encoding it is provided a set of parameters representing the en= coding constraints" - grammatically this should be more like "each encoding= provides a set of parameters representing the encoding constraints". >=20 > "For each group, it is provided a set of parameters representing the cons= traints to be applied" - as above, gramatically this should be more like "f= or each group, a set of parameters represent the constraints to be applied" >=20 > "Endpoint The logical point" - should have a colon after "Endpoint" >=20 > "An endpoint consists of" - as a defined term, endpoint should probably b= e capitalised >=20 > "An MCU may include a Mixer." - Mixer isn't defined here; if we're going = to include this line we probably need to reference another document to say = what we mean by mixer (such as RFC 3550). >=20 > "is used as a synonymous of Capture Encoding." - should be something like= "is used as a synonym of Capture Encoding." or "is used synonymously with = Capture Encoding." >=20 > "(i.e., an Endpoint or a MCU)" - should be "an MCU" >=20 > "(i.e., an Endpoint or a MCU)" - should be "an MCU" (repeated line) >=20 > "or can appear alternatively over the time" - should be "or can appear al= ternatively over time" >=20 > "representing a phisical portion" - should be "representing a physical po= rtion=E2=80=9D [SPR] All definitions in section 2 have been copy-pasted from the latest fr= amework document. > Section 3. > "further detailed in the following of this document." - should be somethi= ng like "further detailed in this document" or "further detailed later in t= his document=E2=80=9D [SPR] Done. >=20 > Section 4. (and other) > Various terms defined in the terminology section are used throughout the = document but are often not capitalised. [SPR] Done. >=20 > "the list of one ore more media captures" - "ore" should be =E2=80=9Cor" [SPR] Done. >=20 > Section 10. > "According to the CLUE framework, a media capture is" - since pretty much= everything in the document is initially defined in the framework, I think = saying "According to the CLUE framework" here is unnecessary; the paragraph= works fine without it. [SPR] Agreed. > In this section, some optional elements don't define what properties are = present if they are not included. We should either have a blanket statement= (optional elements that don't define what their absence means means that t= hat property is undefined) or add it for those elements. [SPR] Blanket statement added. > Section 10.2 > We currently say that "The "mediaType" attribute is a mandatory attribute= specifying the media type of the capture ("audio", "video", "text",...)", = and we have specific subsections for audio, video and text. However, for a = number of later elements, such as , that are in the generic se= ction, whether they are mandatory, optional or not allowed are only defined= for audio and video; whether or not these can be used for anything else (e= g, text) is currently undefined. Their behaviour for text should be defined= (pretty much always MUST NOT be used), and we should be explicit in sectio= n 14 that extensions must also define what to do for those elements. [SPR] See above=E2=80=A6 > Section 10.3. > I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section that defines= the capture scene ID that captureSceneIDREF is referencing [SPR] Done. > Section 10.4. > Similarly, I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section t= hat defines the encoding group ID that encGroupIDREF is referencing [SPR] Done. > Section 10.5. > To avert questions, we should probably reference section 15.4 ( in= the capture scene) here so that people reading in order know that the unit= s of these corrdinates are defined elsewhere. [SPR] Done. > Section 10.5.2. > Given that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points , , , and , should we mandate that they ac= tually represent this, since otherwise someone could potentially put above while the far end might assume they are laid out as = per their names, or should we rename them to three or four generic points t= hat can be anything so long as they are coplanar? [SPR] Done. See above=E2=80=A6 > Section 10.7. > "If a media capture is a MCC, then it can show in its XML data model repr= esentation the element." - should be "an MCC" and I think should = be "then it MAY show" to be normative. [SPR] Done. > Section 10.8. > "MP" is used here and in a few later sections without being defined as an= abbreviation of the Media Provider anywhere. [SPR] Done. Expanded everywhere. > Section 10.10. > Beyond saying that it's a string in the schema, we never define what valu= es can take; assuming we don't plan to provide a list we should sa= y this is a free text field, and/or that it may have values agreed between = implementations or defined in later documents. [SPR] Done. We added a proper schema definition for policies. > Section 10.11. > "When the "exactNumber" attribute is set to "1"" - 'exactNumber' is defin= ed in the schema as a boolean, so should this be 'true', not 1? [SPR] Right. Modified accordingly. > Also, I think maxCaptures should be a positiveInteger, not an unsignedInt= ; having 0 as a maxCaptures doesn't make any sense. [SPR] Right. Modified accordingly. > Finally, since this section is a little complicated I think an example or= two may be helpful. Something like "For instance, an audio MCC "1" means that a Media Stream from the MCC will only able c= ontain audio from a single one of its constituent captures at a time. Howev= er, 4 would mean that the M= edia Stream received from the MCC will always contain a mix of audio from e= xactly four of its constituent captures.=E2=80=9D [SPR] Done. Example added. > Section 10.13. > "The same element is exploited to describe, besides media captures, captu= re scenes and capture scene views, as it is included in their XML represent= ation." - afraid I'm unable to follow exactly what you're saying here. [SPR] The definition has been properly modified. There should be no inconsi= stencies in the document in its current version. > "As it can be seen" - should be something like "As can be seen=E2=80=9D. [SPR] Done > Section 10.14. > "When media captures are marked with a "0" priority value, it means that = they are "not subject to priority"." - "not subject to priority" probably s= houldn't be in quotes unless it's something defined elsewhere, and should p= robably be expanded on a bit. [SPR] Done. > Section 10.16. > "static", "dynamic" and "highly dynamic" shoudl probably be in quotes, an= d it would be good to have a short portion explaining what each ones means [SPR] Done. The short portion has been extracted from the framework documen= t. > Section 10.17. > I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section that defines= the media capture ID that relatedTo is referencing [SPR] Done. > Section 10.20. > It's a minor detail, but should we say that the 'lang' attribute MUST NOT= be used if is "false" (since it makes no sense to define th= e language of nonexistant text)? [SPR] Indeed, 'lang=E2=80=99 is not the language of the el= ement (this seems to be also in line with what stated in the framework). In= our interpretation, =E2=80=9Clang=E2=80=9D is associated with the language= (s) that are =E2=80=98spoken=E2=80=99 in a specified media capture. Correct= us if we=E2=80=99re wrong... > Section 15.4. > ""unknown" - the scale is not necessarily millimeters" - can we say "the = scale is undefined" here? [SPR] OK.=20 =20 > Section 16.1. > "defined as a sequence of ,each containing the" - space nee= ded after comma. And " should potentially be "s= ", though I'm not sure how best to pluralise XML elements. [SPR] OK. > Section 17.1. > "expressed in bit per second" - should be "bits per second=E2=80=9D. [SPR] OK > Section 17.2. > has type "xs:IDREF"; should this not be "xs:ID"; I'd consider the= CLUE ID to be the primary ID and SDP to reference it, but even if it were = the other way around xs:IDREF has to refer to another *XML* element, does i= t not; it can't refer to something in SDP? It would also be useful to refer= to the signalling document here to let people know what the ID association= will be with. [SPR] It should actually be a simple string (the same encoding can actually= appear in multiple encoding groups). It used to be an IDREF before, becaus= e in previous versions of the schema we had a dedicated element associated = with each and every =E2=80=9Cindividual" encoding.=20 > Section 18. > "Besides the identifiers of the captures ( elements), = also the identifiers of capture scene views and of capture scene can be exp= loited, as shortcuts ( and elements)." = - I think this section needs to be expanded a bit to be clearer. Should pro= bably mention that a capture may be included more than once (due to being s= pecified by various formats) and that this has no effect different to it on= ly appearing once. >=20 [SPR] Done. > Section 18.1. > "When only capture scene identifiers are listed within a simultaneous set= , the media type attribute MUST be used in order to determine which media c= aptures can be simultaneously sent together." - This paragraph is repeated = in Section 18.2., which is the appropriate place for it; this version shoul= d be removed. [SPR] Done. > Section 20.1.1. > "Such identifier can be used" - I think this should be "This identifier" = or "such an identifier=E2=80=9D. [SPR] Done. > Section 20.1.3. > ""presenter", "timekeeper","attendee", "minute taker", "translator", "cha= irman", "vice-chairman"." - there should be a space after '"timekeeper=E2= =80=9D,' [SPR] Done. > "A participant can play more than one conference roles." - should be "rol= e=E2=80=9D. [SPR] Done. > Section 21. > The capture encoding contains "captureID"s and "encodingID"s defined as x= s:strings. Should these not be "captureIDREF" and "encIDREF" and be defined= as xs:IDREFs, referencing the corresponding and in the= capture and encoding respectively? >=20 [SPR] elements are conceived to be contained in CONFIGURE= messages and hence refer to information extracted from a different XML doc= ument, namely the ADVERTISEMENT message. They cannot hence be IDREFs. > Section 21.3. > " i.e., it contains The total number of media captures listed in the must be lower than or equal to the value carried within the= attribute of the MCC." - "it contains" should be removed. I = think the "i.e., " is probably unnecessary too; if it is left as-is the "Th= e" should be made lower case. [SPR] Done. > Section 22. > This should presumably be updated to match the actual protocol doc use of= and ? [SPR] Done. > Section 24. > "identified in the CLUE framework as the needed one in order to enable" -= "the needed one" should be something like =E2=80=9Cnecessary=E2=80=9D [SPR] Done. > MC is used here for the first time but is never defined to be an acronym = for Media Consumer. [SPR] Done. Expanded everywhere. > "information incapsulated in CLUE" - "incapsulated" should be =E2=80=9Cen= capsulated" [SPR] Corrected. > Section 25.3. > "This section registers the " "application/clue_info+xml"" MIME type." - = not sure if the double quotes is intentional; even if so, presumably having= a space on one side but not the other is not. [SPR] Quotes removed. > "mechanisms such as those described in Section Security are required to p= rotect the data" - "Section Security" should be replaced with an autonumber= ed section reference. [SPR] Done. > Section 26. > "it is provided the XML representation of an endpoint-style Media Provide= r's offer." - "it is provided" should be "this provides" or similar. [SPR] Done. > "where the central one is also able of capturing a zoomed-out view" - "ab= le of" should be "able to=E2=80=9D. [SPR] Modified. Thanx 1k again, Simon & Roberta >=20 >=20 > Rob >=20 > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue >=20 _\\|//_ ( O-O ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o00~~(_)~~00o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Simon Pietro Romano Universita' di Napoli Federico II Computer Engineering Department=20 Phone: +39 081 7683823 -- Fax: +39 081 7683816 e-mail: spromano@unina.it <>. Magritte. oooO ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~( )~~~ Oooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ \ ( ( ) \_) ) / (_/ ----=0D 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI=0D DELL'UNIVERSIT=C3=80 DI NAPOLI=0D Codice Fiscale: 00876220633=0D www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille=0D --Apple-Mail=_662CA45F-D1D5-420C-95EF-4690A7C4384C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Bob,

thanks a lot for your thorough r= eview!

See in-lin= e ([SPR]) for some comments and replies=E2=80=A6

 Section 10.2
We currently say that "The= "mediaType" attribute is a mandatory attribute specifying the media type o= f the capture ("audio", "video", "text",...)", and we have specific subsect= ions for audio, video and text. However, for a number of elements, such as = <captureArea>, that are in the generic section, whether they are mand= atory, optional or not allowed are only defined for audio and video. I thin= k their behaviour for text should be defined too (pretty much always MUST N= OT be used), and we should be explicit in section 14 that new media type ex= tensions must also define how these elements are to be used.
=

[SPR] OK. We modified the= draft accordingly.


 Section 10.5.2.
Given= that we have explicitely named the four coplanar points <bottomLeft>= , <bottomRight>, <topLeft>, and <topRight>, should we man= date that they actually represent this, since otherwise someone could poten= tially put <bottomLeft> above <topLeft> while the far end might= assume they are laid out as per their names, or should we rename them to t= hree or four generic points that can be anything so long as they are coplan= ar?

[SPR] This h= as already been discussed (and solved) on the ML. The document is in-line w= ith what has been agreed upon in that thread.

Main review is as follows,= in order:

 Section 2.
"..= .except for the "CLUE Participant" definition (which is still under discuss= ion)" - need to remove all in-progress text before completing WGLC

[SPR] Done. No in-progre= ss text should be now present in the document.

The list of terms is most= ly alphabetically ordered, but a few elements are out of place

[SPR] Done. Definitions have= been properly sorted.

"Media Captures belonging to the same Capture Sce= ne View can be sent simultaneously by the Media Provider." - Media Captures= *not* belonging to the same CSV can potentially also be sent simultaneousl= y by the Media Provider; it's the simultaneous sets that defines simultanei= ty. I think the definition works fine without this line, or it should be re= written to make clear that CSVs are intended (but not mandatory) sets of Ca= ptures.

" CLUE Participant:  This term is= not imported from the framework terminology" - not sure we need to say tha= t here (or if we do, should probably be after we've explained what it is.)<= br class=3D"">
"for each encoding it is provided a set of par= ameters representing the encoding constraints" - grammatically this should = be more like "each encoding provides a set of parameters representing the e= ncoding constraints".

"For each group, it is p= rovided a set of parameters representing the constraints to be applied" - a= s above, gramatically this should be more like "for each group, a set of pa= rameters represent the constraints to be applied"

"Endpoint  The logical point" - should have a colon after "Endpo= int"

"An endpoint consists of" - as a defined = term, endpoint should probably be capitalised

= "An MCU may include a Mixer." - Mixer isn't defined here; if we're going to= include this line we probably need to reference another document to say wh= at we mean by mixer (such as RFC 3550).

"is us= ed as a synonymous of Capture Encoding." - should be something like "is use= d as a synonym of Capture Encoding." or "is used synonymously with Capture = Encoding."

"(i.e., an Endpoint or a MCU)" - sh= ould be "an MCU"

"(i.e., an Endpoint or a MCU)= " - should be "an MCU" (repeated line)

"or can= appear alternatively over the time" - should be "or can appear alternative= ly over time"

"representing a phisical portion= " - should be "representing a physical portion=E2=80=9D
<= div>

[SPR] All definitions in= section 2 have been copy-pasted from the latest framework document.
<= div>
 Section 3.
"further detailed in the following o= f this document." - should be something like "further detailed in this docu= ment" or "further detailed later in this document=E2=80=9D

[SPR] Done.


 Sectio= n 4. (and other)
Various terms defined in the terminology sec= tion are used throughout the document but are often not capitalised.

[SPR] Done.
=

"the list of one ore more media captures" - "ore" should be =E2=80= =9Cor"

[SPR] Don= e.


 Section 10.
"According to the CLU= E framework, a media capture is" - since pretty much everything in the docu= ment is initially defined in the framework, I think saying "According to th= e CLUE framework" here is unnecessary; the paragraph works fine without it.=

[SPR] Agreed.

In this section, some optional elements don't define what properties are = present if they are not included. We should either have a blanket statement= (optional elements that don't define what their absence means means that t= hat property is undefined) or add it for those elements.

[SPR] Blanket statement added.

=  Section 10.2
We currently say that "The "mediaType" att= ribute is a mandatory attribute specifying the media type of the capture ("= audio", "video", "text",...)", and we have specific subsections for audio, = video and text. However, for a number of later elements, such as <captur= eArea>, that are in the generic section, whether they are mandatory, opt= ional or not allowed are only defined for audio and video; whether or not t= hese can be used for anything else (eg, text) is currently undefined. Their= behaviour for text should be defined (pretty much always MUST NOT be used)= , and we should be explicit in section 14 that extensions must also define = what to do for those elements.

[SPR] See above=E2=80=A6

 Section 10.3.
I think it would be helpful to include a link to the section that defines= the capture scene ID that captureSceneIDREF is referencing
<= /div>

[SPR] Done.

 Section 10= .4.
Similarly, I think it would be helpful to include a link = to the section that defines the encoding group ID that encGroupIDREF is ref= erencing

[SPR] D= one.

 Section 10.5.
To avert questions, we should pro= bably reference section 15.4 (<scale> in the capture scene) here so t= hat people reading in order know that the units of these corrdinates are de= fined elsewhere.

[SPR] Done.

=
 Section 10.5.2.
Given that we have expl= icitely named the four coplanar points <bottomLeft>, <bottomRight&= gt;, <topLeft>, and <topRight>, should we mandate that they act= ually represent this, since otherwise someone could potentially put <bot= tomLeft> above <topLeft> while the far end might assume they are l= aid out as per their names, or should we rename them to three or four gener= ic points that can be anything so long as they are coplanar?
=

[SPR] Done. See above=E2=80=A6=

 Section 10.7.
"If a media capture is a MCC, then = it can show in its XML data model representation the <content> elemen= t." - should be "an MCC" and I think should be "then it MAY show" to be nor= mative.

[SPR] Do= ne.

 Section 10.8.
"MP" is used here and in a few lat= er sections without being defined as an abbreviation of the Media Provider = anywhere.

[SPR] = Done. Expanded everywhere.

 Section 10.10.
Beyond say= ing that it's a string in the schema, we never define what values <polic= y> can take; assuming we don't plan to provide a list we should say this= is a free text field, and/or that it may have values agreed between implem= entations or defined in later documents.
<= div>
[SPR] Done. We added a proper schema definition fo= r policies.

<= div class=3D""> Section 10.11.
"When the "exactNumber" a= ttribute is set to "1"" - 'exactNumber' is defined in the schema as a boole= an, so should this be 'true', not 1?
=
[SPR] Right. Modified accordingly.

Also, I think ma= xCaptures should be a positiveInteger, not an unsignedInt; having 0 as a ma= xCaptures doesn't make any sense.
[SPR] Right. Modified accordingly.

Finally, since= this section is a little complicated I think an example or two may be help= ful. Something like "For instance, an audio MCC "<maxCaptures>1</m= axCaptures>" means that a Media Stream from the MCC will only able conta= in audio from a single one of its constituent captures at a time. However, = <maxCaptures exactNumber=3D"true">4</maxCaptures> would mean th= at the Media Stream received from the MCC will always contain a mix of audi= o from exactly four of its constituent captures.=E2=80=9D

[SPR] Done. Example added.

 Section 10= .13.
"The same element is exploited to describe, besides medi= a captures, capture scenes and capture scene views, as it is included in th= eir XML representation." - afraid I'm unable to follow exactly what you're = saying here.

[SP= R] The definition has been properly modified. There should be no inconsiste= ncies in the document in its current version.

"As it can be seen" - shou= ld be something like "As can be seen=E2=80=9D.

[SPR] Done

 Section 10.14.
"When media captures are marked with a "0" priority value, it means t= hat they are "not subject to priority"." - "not subject to priority" probab= ly shouldn't be in quotes unless it's something defined elsewhere, and shou= ld probably be expanded on a bit.
[SPR] Done.

 Section 10.16.
"static= ", "dynamic" and "highly dynamic" shoudl probably be in quotes, and it woul= d be good to have a short portion explaining what each ones means

[SPR] Done. The short po= rtion has been extracted from the framework document.

 Section 10= .17.
I think it would be helpful to include a link to the se= ction that defines the media capture ID that relatedTo is referencing

[SPR] Done.

 = Section 10.20.
It's a minor detail, but should we say that th= e 'lang' attribute MUST NOT be used if <embeddedText> is "false" (sin= ce it makes no sense to define the language of nonexistant text)?

[SPR]  Indeed, 'lan= g=E2=80=99  is not the language of the <embeddedText> element (t= his seems to be also in line with what stated in the framework). In our int= erpretation, =E2=80=9Clang=E2=80=9D is associated with the language(s) that= are =E2=80=98spoken=E2=80=99 in a specified media capture. Correct us if w= e=E2=80=99re wrong...

 Section 15.4.
""unknown" - the= scale is not necessarily millimeters" - can we say "the scale is undefined= " here?

[SPR] OK= . 
 
 Section 16.1.
"defined as a sequence of &l= t;captureIDREF>,each containing the" - space needed after comma. And "&l= t;captureIDREF> should potentially be "<captureIDREF>s", though I'= m not sure how best to pluralise XML elements.

[SPR] OK.

 Section 17.1.
"expressed in bit per second" - should be "bits per second=E2=80=9D.

[SPR] OK
=
 S= ection 17.2.
<encID> has type "xs:IDREF"; should this n= ot be "xs:ID"; I'd consider the CLUE ID to be the primary ID and SDP to ref= erence it, but even if it were the other way around xs:IDREF has to refer t= o another *XML* element, does it not; it can't refer to something in SDP? I= t would also be useful to refer to the signalling document here to let peop= le know what the ID association will be with.

[SPR] It should actually be a simple string (= the same encoding can actually appear in multiple encoding groups). It used= to be an IDREF before, because in previous versions of the schema we had a= dedicated element associated with each and every =E2=80=9Cindividual" enco= ding. 

<= div class=3D""> Section 18.
"Besides the identifiers of = the captures (<mediaCaptureIDREF> elements), also the identifiers of = capture scene views and of capture scene can be exploited, as shortcuts (&l= t;sceneViewIDREF> and <captureSceneIDREF> elements)." - I think th= is section needs to be expanded a bit to be clearer. Should probably mentio= n that a capture may be included more than once (due to being specified by = various formats) and that this has no effect different to it only appearing= once.


=
[SPR] Done.

 Section 18.1.
"When only capture= scene identifiers are listed within a simultaneous set, the media type att= ribute MUST be used in order to determine which media captures can be simul= taneously sent together." - This paragraph is repeated in Section 18.2., wh= ich is the appropriate place for it; this version should be removed.

[SPR] Done.
=
 S= ection 20.1.1.
"Such identifier can be used" - I think this s= hould be "This identifier" or "such an identifier=E2=80=9D.
<= /div>

[SPR] Done.

Section 20.1.3.<= br class=3D"">""presenter", "timekeeper","attendee", "minute taker", "trans= lator", "chairman", "vice-chairman"." - there should be a space after '"tim= ekeeper=E2=80=9D,'

[SPR] Done.

"A participant can play more than one conference roles." = - should be "role=E2=80=9D.

[SPR] Done.

 Section 21.
The capture enco= ding contains "captureID"s and "encodingID"s defined as xs:strings. Should = these not be "captureIDREF" and "encIDREF" and be defined as xs:IDREFs, ref= erencing the corresponding <captureID> and <encID> in the captu= re and encoding respectively?


[SPR] <captureEncoding> elements are con= ceived to be contained in CONFIGURE messages and hence refer to information= extracted from a different XML document, namely the ADVERTISEMENT message.= They cannot hence be IDREFs.

 Section 21.3.
" i.e.,= it contains The total number of media captures listed in the <configure= dContent> must be lower than or equal to the value carried within the &l= t;maxCaptures> attribute of the MCC." - "it contains" should be removed.= I think the "i.e., " is probably unnecessary too; if it is left as-is the = "The" should be made lower case.

[SPR] Done.

 Section 22.
This should= presumably be updated to match the actual protocol doc use of <advertis= ement> and  <configure>?

[SPR] Done.

 Section 24.
<= /div>
"identified = in the CLUE framework as the needed one in order to enable" - "the needed o= ne" should be something like =E2=80=9Cnecessary=E2=80=9D
=

[SPR] Done.

MC is used here for= the first time but is never defined to be an acronym for Media Consumer.

[SPR] Done. Expan= ded everywhere.

"information incapsulated in CLUE" - "incapsulated" shou= ld be =E2=80=9Cencapsulated"

[SPR] Corrected.

 Section 25.3.
"This se= ction registers the " "application/clue_info+xml"" MIME type." - not sure i= f the double quotes is intentional; even if so, presumably having a space o= n one side but not the other is not.
=
[SPR] Quotes removed.

"mechanisms such as those des= cribed in Section Security are required to protect the data" - "Section Sec= urity" should be replaced with an autonumbered section reference.

[SPR] Done.
 Sec= tion 26.
"it is provided the XML representation of an endpoin= t-style Media Provider's offer." - "it is provided" should be "this provide= s" or similar.

[= SPR] Done.

"where the central one is also able of capturing a zoomed-out= view" - "able of" should be "able to=E2=80=9D.

[SPR] Modified.

Thanx 1k again,

Simon & Ro= berta




Rob

_______________________________________________clue mailing list
clue@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l= istinfo/clue


    &nbs= p;                        _\\|//_
                   =               ( O-O )
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o00~~(_)~~00o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~~~
              &= nbsp;      Simon Pie= tro Romano
            &= nbsp;  Universita' di Napoli F= ederico II
            &= nbsp;                 Phone: +39 081 768= 3823 -- Fax: +39 081 7683816
      &nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;              e-mail: spromano@unina.it

    <<Molti mi dicono che = lo scoraggiamento =C3=A8 l'alibi degli 
   &n= bsp;idioti. Ci rifletto un istante; e mi scoraggio>>. Magritte.
=
                         =            oooO
  = ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(   )~~~ Oooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    &nbs= p;             \_)        = ;  ) /
            =                      = ;                     &nb= sp;                (_/
<= div class=3D"">








----
=0D 5x1000 AI GIOVANI=0D RICERCATORI
DELL'UNIVERSITA' DI NAPOLI
Codice Fiscale:=0D 00876220633
www.unina.it= /Vademecum5permille

  ­­  = --Apple-Mail=_662CA45F-D1D5-420C-95EF-4690A7C4384C-- From nobody Mon Jun 29 10:09:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AFB61B2BC0; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:09:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YajdO0l3oobm; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC721B2BB4; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:09:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.4.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150629170934.20713.93763.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:09:34 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: [clue] I-D Action: draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-10.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 17:09:35 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the ControLling mUltiple streams for tElepresence Working Group of the IETF. Title : An XML Schema for the CLUE data model Authors : Roberta Presta Simon Pietro Romano Filename : draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-10.txt Pages : 65 Date : 2015-06-29 Abstract: This document provides an XML schema file for the definition of CLUE data model types. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 30 17:11:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB401B2BA6 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 17:11:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.19 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.19 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, GB_I_LETTER=-2, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6HV9qB_pjlYw for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 17:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cserver5.myshophosting.com (cserver5.myshophosting.com [175.107.161.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC23A1B2AA1 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 17:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp118-209-81-109.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net ([118.209.81.109]:50285 helo=[192.168.1.22]) by cserver5.myshophosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZA5cH-0044Zm-CQ for clue@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Jul 2015 10:11:05 +1000 Message-ID: <55933017.9070504@nteczone.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 10:11:03 +1000 From: Christian Groves User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clue@ietf.org References: <0ba001d0a164$ecb9b760$c62d2620$@gmail.com> <55774468.20807@alum.mit.edu> <5588226E.7080908@unina.it> <55893B04.6050309@unina.it> <5589B4E5.5090808@alum.mit.edu> <558D51F6.7020707@unina.it> In-Reply-To: <558D51F6.7020707@unina.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cserver5.myshophosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - nteczone.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cserver5.myshophosting.com: authenticated_id: christian.groves@nteczone.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Paul's WGLC review of draft-ietf-clue-data-model-schema-09 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 00:11:12 -0000 Hello all, I'm for keeping the values as tokens so that we don't have to update the schema. We probably need to update the IANA registry section to create registries for these. I did prepare some text earlier regarding CLUE enhancement that Roberta indicated she would include in the protocol draft (see below) but haven't seen in the draft yet. Maybe the data model is the more appropriate document? Updates to the CLUE protocol document: ------------------------------------------------------- x. CLUE Protocol Enhancement The CLUE protocol may be extended in a number of ways: 1)New values for existing: a)Media Capture Attributes as defined in section 7.1.1/[I-D.ietf-clue-framework], b)MCC Attributes as defined in section 7.2.1/[I-D.ietf-clue-framework], c)Capture Scene Attributes as in section 7.3.1/[I-D.ietf-clue-framework], d)Capture Scene View attributes as in section 7.3.2/[I-D.ietf-clue-framework], 2)New Media Capture, MCC, Capture Scene or Capture Scene View attributes. 3)New Error Response Codes 4)New or modified elements related to the syntax of the CLUE protocol. Enhancements not related to CLUE attributes or attribute values. The CLUE OPTION mechanism is used to indicate support for enhancements related to attributes (i.e. 1 and 2 above). Enhancements to CLUE protocol syntax as a result of 3 & 4 may require a new protocol version or may use the OPTION mechanism. However the procedure for specifying and registering a syntax related OPTION is different to an OPTION affecting attributes/attribute values. An OPTIONs mechanism is used for syntax that is optional for an endpoint to receive. A new CLUE protocol version is used where updated syntax MUST be supported by an endpoint. x.1 CLUE OPTION registration Registrations for CLUE OPTIONS are requested from the IANA. This section outlines the procedures for documenting and registering a new CLUE OPTION. *x.1.1 Attribute / Attribute Value related OPTIONs* The process for registering an attribute / attribute value related CLUE OPTION is deemed to be "specification required" as per [IETF RFC 5226]. Each OPTION may only contain a single new attribute or one or more value additions to an existing attribute. /{Contributor’s note: The ability to define several attributes/attribute values could be added, if deemed worthwhile. The approach of a single value was chosen for simplicity in this first draft.}/// The specification MUST include the following information: *OPTION NAME:*String [1-64 Characters] /{Contributor’s note: Do we need a version for OPTIONs?}/ *OPTION DESCRIPTION:*A high level text indicating what the CLUE OPTION is for. *Specification Reference: *A URL to the publically available document containing the OPTION. *XML Schema Reference: *The XML schema reference *Minimum CLUE Version:*The minimum version of the CLUE protocol that the OPTION pertains to. *Attribute Name:*An existing attribute name is used when the OPTION introduces new value/s. A new unique attribute name is used when introducing a new attribute. OPTION requesters SHOULD check the IANA CLUE OPTION registry to ensure that new attributes have a unique name within the attribute type. *Attribute Type (optional):*When introducing a new attribute the type of attribute, “Media Capture”, “MCC”, Capture Scene” or “Capture Scene View” MUST be indicated. It is not possible to change the attribute type of an existing attribute. *Attribute Description*(optional): This description MUST be included for a new attribute. It describes the functionality associated with the attribute. *Value Description:*The specification MUST include a description of the new values, including allowed values, values ranges, value type and a description of the values. The introduction of new value/s MUST NOT change the value type (e.g. from string to integer) nor SHOULD it change the meaning of existing values. *XML Schema (optional): *The specification MUST contain an XML schema detailing the new attribute and its values. If an OPTION describes a new value in an existing value range updates to the XML schema is not required.** Developers of specifications of new CLUE OPTIONS are encouraged to send their specifications to the IETF CLUE working group for comment before requesting registration of a new CLUE OPTION with the IANA. Once the request for CLUE OPTION registration is received by IANA, it will be forwarded to the Internet Engineering Steering Group (IESG) appointed Expert for review. During the review, the specification with the requested CLUE OPTION will be compared to the above criteria for completeness, as well as being compared against protocol syntax and procedures. It will be compared against existing OPTIONS to see that it does not duplicate existing functionalities. It will be reviewed to see that any potential security issues are addressed. The Expert reviewer will then work towards a resolution of any issues with the OPTIONS requester. The IESG appointed Expert may complete the review in consultation with other CLUE experts (i.e., via email to IETF CLUE email list). If the CLUE OPTION is deemed suitable, the IESG appointed Expert shall issue a statement indicating approval, copied to IANA. The IESG Expert reviewer will ensure the following is recorded with the IANA for each OPTION: 1)A unique string name is registered for each CLUE OPTION. CLUE OPTION names are allocated on a first come-first served basis if all other conditions are met. 2)The attribute type and name of the affected attribute. This is to facilitate cross checking of OPTIONs to ensure that namespaces and values within a namespace do not overlap. 3)A reference to a specification that describes the OPTION, 4)A contact name, an email and postal addresses for the CLUE OPTIONS requester shall be provided. The contact information shall be updated by the defining organization, as necessary. *x.1.2 Syntax / Response code related OPTIONs* The process for registering a syntax or response code related CLUE OPTION is deemed to be "Standards Action" as per [IETF RFC 5226]. The RFC MUST include the following information: *OPTION NAME:*String [1-64 Characters] /{Contributor’s note: Do we need a version for OPTIONs?}/ *OPTION DESCRIPTION:*A high level text indicating what the CLUE OPTION is for. *XML Schema Reference: *The XML schema reference *Minimum CLUE Version:*The minimum version of the CLUE protocol that the OPTION pertains to. *XML Schema Description:*A description of the new XML elements and any possible relationship to the existing CLUE protocol elements. *XML Schema: *The specification MUST contain an XML schema detailing the new syntax. It is not possible to modify or remove existing XML syntax via an OPTIONs specification.** The responsible IETF WG SHALL ensure the following is recorded with the IANA for each syntax OPTION: 1)A unique string name is registered for each CLUE OPTION. CLUE OPTION names are allocated on a first come-first served basis if all other conditions are met. 2)An indication that the OPTION is related to syntax. 3)A reference to the RFC that describes the OPTION. Regards, Christian On 26/06/2015 11:21 PM, Roberta Presta wrote: > Dear Paul, > > please find below my replies about the definition of and > mediaType. > > Il 23/06/2015 21:35, Paul Kyzivat ha scritto: >> On 6/23/15 6:55 AM, Roberta Presta wrote: >> >>>> Policy for MCCs: is just a string. How are we going to specify the >>>> available policies? >>>> >>> >>> OK. We added a regular expression to define the content of the >>> element in the form of "token:index". >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> But which values are to be supported, what are the semantics of each, >> and how is that set extended? >> >> I'm comfortable with registries because I understand them, so I would >> be happy with an iana registry. But I guess that xml may have other >> ways to handle this. (E.g. an enumeration. Could such a thing be >> extended via definitions in another namespace?) >> > > According to the provided definition, "token" is made by one or more > lowercase or uppercase letters from a to z and numbers from 0 to 9, > while "index" is made by one or more numbers from 0 to 9. > "SoundLevel:3", for example, is a valid value. > This definition is coherent with the framework one about the switching > policy attribute ("The attribute is in the form of a token that > indicates the policy, and an index representing an instance of the > policy.") and allows for defining new policy names having a similar > semantic. > Two policies have been defined to date in the framework document, > i.e., two switching behaviors have been described (SoundLevel and > RoundRobin). > In the future, you can create documents specifying new switching > behaviors, associated with new token names, and you can keep on using > this data model without any change. > > Otherwise, we can define an enumerative type for the token part of the > switching policy name, containing just "SoundLevel" and "RoundRobin" > as possible values. > If new tokens need to be defined, you will need to change the data > model document, by the way. > > >>>> MEDIA CAPTURE TYPE: "mediaType" is just a string. How are we going to >>>> specify the available media types? >>>> >>> >>> As highlighted by Mark, it is defined in section 10.2 of the document. >>> Audio, video and text are just examples of valid media types. We did >>> not want to put any constraints on the set of possible media types. >> >> The text in 10.2 appears to be an *example*, and the "..." isn't very >> normative. What is the full range of possible values? >> >> One possibility is to reference RFC4566 for the definition used for >> the m-line. >> >> But I think we would need additional clue specifications to support >> more than audio/video/text. So we might want to say that *this* spec >> only covers audio/video/text, but it may be extended in the future to >> cover additional types allowed by RFC4566, and that receivers MUST be >> able to accept (and presumably ignore) advertisements that contain >> others that they don't understand. >> > The type definition for the mediaType attribute is intentionally as > general as possible in order to not require changes in the data model > when dealing with other media types besides "audio", "video", and > "text". In other words, for other capture types, we can specify any > other values in the mediaType attribute and be still compliant with > the current data model specification. Clearly the interpretation of > those other media capture types should be shared between > implementations and/or defined somewhere, but the point is that, by > this way, using new values do not affect the pre-defined structure of > the data model. > This is somehow the same motivation provided above for the definition > of the type. > > What do you think about these possibilities? > > Roberta > > > ---- > 5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI > DELL'UNIVERSITÀ DI NAPOLI > Codice Fiscale: 00876220633 > www.unina.it/Vademecum5permille > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue >