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= ------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01C68BC5.653DB980-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Jun 12 14:26:36 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fpr7U-00027t-Ud for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:26:36 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fpr7T-00041y-Jy for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:26:36 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX19ev0ZDEdecjX8Odx3iP8p+yTF3gisHWkQ@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5CHi9CO028802; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:44:09 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5CHi9DO028800; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:44:09 -0700 Received: from denic.de (fw-d-whp.denic.de [81.91.160.27]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5CHi8SR028795 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:44:09 -0700 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2FC742F360C; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:44:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:44:01 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP Working Group Cc: "Lucy E. Lynch" Subject: [dnsop] Re: admin: temporary mailing list maintainer Message-ID: <20060612174401.GL510@unknown.office.denic.de> References: <20060526215245.GA24394@denics7.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060526215245.GA24394@denics7.denic.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1534/Mon Jun 12 05:30:53 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Dear WG, > for different reasons, neither of the DNSOP wg chairs is going to be available > much until June, 12th. your chairs are back to their respective desks. Thanks to Jaap for having an eye on the - mostly idle - mailing list. -Peter . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Jun 12 14:31:30 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FprCE-0004Kr-Ui for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:31:30 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FprCD-0004Qr-Gn for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:31:30 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX18SrUUTXCNntnrY0gaqEOaQaTTO0EP3Tx0@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5CHvtAO029147; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:57:55 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5CHvtPK029145; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:57:55 -0700 Received: from denic.de (fw-d-whp.denic.de [81.91.160.27]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5CHvt6s029140 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:57:55 -0700 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id A5A652F361D; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:57:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:57:49 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP Working Group Subject: [dnsop] IETF 66 agenda items, please Message-ID: <20060612175749.GM510@unknown.office.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1534/Mon Jun 12 05:30:53 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Dear WG, we have been assigned a 150 min slot on Thursday morning (0900-1130) for the Montreal meeting, subject to rescheduling until June, 19th. Please submit suggestions for agenda items to Rob and me. The agenda will evolve at and reach final state no later than July, 3rd, 1600 UTC. The cutoff date for revised I-Ds is Monday, June, 26th, 1300 UTC . Please have a look at the wg documents and submit comments, especially if you've (been) volunteered in Dallas. 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C68FB4.9D257200-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Jun 14 13:37:05 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqZIf-0003bF-72 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:37:05 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FqZId-0000cM-Rq for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:37:05 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX19+NiIVwrt+GyCmLyIK4XNfHzhKkxHV5/k@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5EGnmXq001644; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 09:49:48 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5EGnmYq001642; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 09:49:48 -0700 Received: from denic.de (fw-d-whp.denic.de [81.91.160.27]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5EGnloW001632 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 09:49:47 -0700 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id 4A1EF2F6FA2; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:49:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:49:41 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: [dnsop] req for adoption: draft-andrews-full-service-resolvers Message-ID: <20060614164941.GB2129@unknown.office.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1539/Wed Jun 14 07:21:49 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Dear WG, we have a request for adopting draft-andrews-full-service-resolvers (currently in version -02) as a dnsop wg item. The Dallas minutes say we have 10 volunteers for review, the current author would act as document editor. There was discussion in Dallas and on the list and the content and direction of the draft looks stable, with some editorial work still to do. Given that we have shortened our queue of open items, the document fits within our charter and the amount of remaining work is moderate, I'd like to ask for consent for adoption of this draft as a wg document. If you disagree, please speak up asap, so we could have the draft as a -00 submitted by June 19th. With the reasoning above, I'll take silence as consent. Thanks & apologies for the short notice! -Peter . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Jun 14 15:23:29 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fqaxd-0000f0-2F for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:23:29 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fqaxb-0005X5-Ag for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:23:29 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1++RX1838++P0rHiTk/DyqjqO2cNKJQ4iY@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5EImSET005616; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 11:48:28 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k5EImS8u005614; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 11:48:28 -0700 Received: from ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5EImR86005609 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 11:48:27 -0700 Received: from [10.31.32.128] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k5EImCmF096295; Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:48:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20060614164941.GB2129@unknown.office.denic.de> References: <20060614164941.GB2129@unknown.office.denic.de> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:48:19 -0400 To: Peter Koch From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [dnsop] req for adoption: draft-andrews-full-service-resolvers Cc: IETF DNSOP WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1061811591==_ma============" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 66.92.146.160 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1539/Wed Jun 14 07:21:49 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8d89ee9312a95de8ee48d1c94511f1bb --============_-1061811591==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Looking at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-andrews-full-service-resolvers-02.txt We need a much shorter title, especially as this is not about "full service" resolvers. If we keep calling it that, it'll suffer the same fate as the draft we used to call in-addr-requred. How about "Locally-served Zones" or some such name? This draft affirms the role of split-DNS in operations. (In that it says: "If using empty zones one should not use the same NS and SOA records as used on the public Internet servers as that will make it harder to detect leakage from the public Internet servers.") I recall resistance to split-brain being voiced at this meeting: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/05mar/dnsop.html (which *still* does not have the minutes attached to it as appears here: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/msg03378.html) draft-durand-dnsop-dont-publish-00.txt goals: restart talk on what should be published or not in DNS. issues: ambiguity, unreachability, new v6 stuff: transition phase, globally unique local addrs recommendation: when publishing multiple addresses take care to not publish at the same time addrs designed to be globally unique and addrs that are not ... keith moore: if you're seeing limited scope addresses published in DNS then that's a sign of other problems and it is not DNS' task to solve these john schnizlein: split-DNS is ... rob austein: I declare split-DNS out of topic for this one rob austein: i hear interest in this draft (...the draft died of "no comments" at the Vancouver or Dallas meeting...) and later: draft-krishnaswamy-dnsop-split-view... suresh krishnaswamy: documents a way to config split-DNS with DNSSEC. This document is not about information hiding. split-views and DNSSEC may seem mutually conflicting. keith moore: example doesn't show apps rob austein: were not here to debate split dns in general, this is limited to DNSSEC applied to split DNS given that split DNS will be used regardless ed lewis: split-view is essential, good to get it documented sam weiler: disagree with keith bill manning: advance it. the philosophical issues are not a topic for this WG russ mundy: important to get modern documents on how to get DNSSEC working in present environments If we embrace this document, we embrace split-DNS. At 18:49 +0200 6/14/06, Peter Koch wrote: >Dear WG, > >we have a request for adopting draft-andrews-full-service-resolvers (currently >in version -02) as a dnsop wg item. The Dallas minutes say we have 10 >volunteers for review, the current author would act as document editor. >There was discussion in Dallas and on the list and the content and direction >of the draft looks stable, with some editorial work still to do. Given that >we have shortened our queue of open items, the document fits within our >charter and the amount of remaining work is moderate, I'd like to ask >for consent for adoption of this draft as a wg document. > >If you disagree, please speak up asap, so we could have the draft as a -00 >submitted by June 19th. With the reasoning above, I'll take silence >as consent. > >Thanks & apologies for the short notice! > >-Peter >. >dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ >web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html >mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Nothin' more exciting than going to the printer to watch the toner drain... --============_-1061811591==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [dnsop] req for adoption: draft-andrews-full-service-r

Looking at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-andrews-full-service-resolvers-02.txt

We need a much shorter title, especially as this is not about "full service" resolvers. If we keep calling it that, it'll suffer the same fate as the draft we used to call in-addr-requred.

How about "Locally-served Zones" or some such name?

This draft affirms the role of split-DNS in operations. (In that it says:
"If using empty zones one should not use the same NS and SOA records
as used on the public Internet servers as that will make it harder to

detect leakage from the public Internet servers.")

I recall resistance to split-brain being voiced at this meeting: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/05mar/dnsop.html (which *still* does not have the minutes attached to it as appears here: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/msg03378.html)

         draft-durand-dnsop-dont-publish-00.txt
             goals: restart talk on what should be published or
     not in DNS. issues: ambiguity, unreachability, new
     v6 stuff: transition phase, globally unique local
     addrs recommendation: when publishing multiple
          addresses take care to not publish at the same time
             addrs designed to be globally unique and addrs that

are not

...

             keith moore: if you're seeing limited scope
             addresses published in DNS then that's a sign of
        other problems and it is not DNS' task to solve

these

john schnizlein: split-DNS is ...

rob austein: I declare split-DNS out of topic for

this one

rob austein: i hear interest in this draft

(...the draft died of "no comments" at the Vancouver or Dallas meeting...)

and later:

         draft-krishnaswamy-dnsop-split-view...

             suresh krishnaswamy: documents a way to config
           split-DNS with DNSSEC. This document is not about
     information hiding. split-views and DNSSEC may seem
             mutually conflicting.

             keith moore: example doesn't show apps
             rob austein: were not here to debate split dns in
          general, this is limited to DNSSEC applied to split
             DNS given that split DNS will be used regardless
             ed lewis: split-view is essential, good to get it
          documented
             sam weiler: disagree with keith
             bill manning: advance it. the philosophical issues
           are not a topic for this WG
             russ mundy: important to get modern documents on how
            to get DNSSEC working in present environments

If we embrace this document, we embrace split-DNS.

At 18:49 +0200 6/14/06, Peter Koch wrote:

>Dear WG,
>
>we have a request for adopting draft-andrews-full-service-resolvers (currently
>in version -02) as a dnsop wg item. The Dallas minutes say we have 10
>volunteers for review, the current author would act as document editor.
>There was discussion in Dallas and on the list and the content and direction
>of the draft looks stable, with some editorial work still to do. Given that
>we have shortened our queue of open items, the document fits within our
>charter and the amount of remaining work is moderate, I'd like to ask
>for consent for adoption of this draft as a wg document.
>
>If you disagree, please speak up asap, so we could have the draft as a -00
>submitted by June 19th. With the reasoning above, I'll take silence as consent.
>
>Thanks & apologies for the short notice!
>
>-Peter
>.
>dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________
>web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html
>mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html

--

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468
NeuStar

Nothin' more exciting than going to the printer to watch the toner drain...

--============_-1061811591==_ma============-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From service@paypal.com Thu Jun 15 12:32:32 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fqulk-0006M2-3b for dnsop-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:32:32 -0400 Received: from [211.97.55.81] (helo=lt) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fquli-0007gH-Hk for dnsop-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:32:32 -0400 Received: from User ([66.59.189.157]) by lt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 16 Jun 2006 00:32:43 +0800 Reply-To: From: "PayPal" Subject: * * * Update & Verify Your PayPal Account * * * Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:42:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jun 2006 16:32:43.0984 (UTC) FILETIME=[53F8AD00:01C69099] X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15

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From service@paypal.com Thu Jun 15 12:32:32 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fqulk-0006MB-4l for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:32:32 -0400 Received: from [211.97.55.81] (helo=lt) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fquli-0007gG-Hm; Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:32:32 -0400 Received: from User ([66.59.189.157]) by lt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 16 Jun 2006 00:32:43 +0800 Reply-To: From: "PayPal" Subject: * * * Update & Verify Your PayPal Account * * * Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:42:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jun 2006 16:32:43.0984 (UTC) FILETIME=[53F8AD00:01C69099] X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15

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(IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1/W9BFvq+6Zr//CPhGefEFekbLAGgTalog@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5KJoAgU000358; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:50:10 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5KJoASn000356; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:50:10 -0700 Received: from pine.neustar.com (pine.neustar.com [209.173.57.70]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5KJoAnD000351 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:50:10 -0700 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by pine.neustar.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5KJo2Hp001316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:50:02 GMT Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FsmEc-0003cC-Cq; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:50:02 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1551/Tue Jun 20 06:37:21 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f66b12316365a3fe519e75911daf28a8 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : Locally-served Zones Author(s) : M. Andrews Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2006-6-20 Practice has shown that there are a number of DNS zones all iterative resolvers and recursive nameservers should, unless configured otherwise, automatically serve. RFC 4193 already specifies that this should occur for D.F.IP6.ARPA. This document extends the practice to cover the IN-ADDR.ARPA zones for RFC 1918 address space and other well known zones with similar usage constraints. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-6-20130009.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-6-20130009.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Jun 21 20:42:02 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtDGk-0004fD-Fx for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:42:02 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtDGj-00035K-3P for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:42:02 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX19K9xOTS4ipsDMF9AWo98vSIynGz5hIqB8@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5LNq43Q006144; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 16:52:04 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5LNq4k7006142; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 16:52:04 -0700 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5LNq3kR006137 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 16:52:04 -0700 Received: from octopus.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.5]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.61 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1FtCUH-000EAo-EZ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:51:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: William Maton From: Joe Abley Subject: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 19:51:55 -0400 To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1559/Wed Jun 21 07:23:13 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mailapps.uoregon.edu id k5LNq4kR006139 Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mailapps.uoregon.edu id k5LNq43Q006144 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Hi all, William Maton and I have prepared two drafts relating to the AS112 =20 project: draft-jabley-as112-ops-00 draft-jabley-as112-being-attacked-help-help-00 Those who are unfamiliar with the AS112 project are invited to read =20 the abstract of either of those for some background. We have requested a brief slot in Montr=E9al to gauge the opinion of =20 the working group as to (a) whether the material treated in those =20 documents ought to be published in the RFC series, and (b) whether, =20 if so, they would benefit from collective review as dnsop working =20 group documents. Comments relating to the content of the drafts is also most welcome, =20 obviously. The problem we are trying to solve with these drafts is that the =20 AS112 infrastructure is poorly documented. We think that the IETF is =20 a good place for that documentation to live, since the function of =20 the nameservers concerned relates directly to address blocks reserved =20 by the IETF (in RFC1918). Having been recently in the unenviable position[1] of answering phone =20 calls from angry people regarding the denial-of-service attack from =20 PRISONER.IANA.ORG on their firewalls (source port 53), I can also say =20 with confidence that being able to point such people at a published, =20 IETF document describing the project would have gone a long way =20 towards pacifying some of the moderately paranoid of the callers, =20 many of which were not at all convinced that this AS112 thing was on =20 the up and up. (The most paranoid callers also had sincere doubts about entities =20 such as ISC, IANA, ICANN, and IETF, and many suspected they were all =20 fronts for rogue foreign governments, but such people are probably =20 beyond hope in so many other ways that to attempt to quench their =20 suspicions is probably a lost cause). Joe [1] at ISC, whose NOC number is the listed telephone contact for the =20 AS112 service prefix =2E dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Jun 22 19:47:15 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtYtH-0000vB-SA for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:47:15 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtYtG-0002Nl-Fj for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:47:15 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1/qjYjHou+cfqcyVuv6zw2N6DeGL/aYhzU@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5MN9mjb006297; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:09:48 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5MN9mmJ006295; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:09:48 -0700 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5MN9lnN006288 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:09:47 -0700 Received: from octopus.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.5]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.61 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1FtYIv-0000iP-Jo for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:09:42 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) References: <2FC6DF6C-A0D8-4686-96C6-C938AF9C8D84@kumari.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <167122DD-0CB2-4C54-8322-97DABF52DA4F@ca.afilias.info> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: [dnsop] Fwd: Notes on: raft-jabley-as112-being-attacked-help-help-00.txt Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:09:41 -0400 To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1561/Thu Jun 22 08:40:00 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Forwarded with Warren's ok. Begin forwarded message: > From: Warren Kumari > Date: 22 June 2006 11:52:23 EDT (CA) > To: jabley@ca.afilias.info > Subject: Notes on: raft-jabley-as112-being-attacked-help-help-00.txt > > Hi Joe, > > For some reason I found the title of draft (esp the -help-help > part) incredibly funny -- I wont be able to think of AS112 without > having a mental picture of a firewall admin running around in > circles shouting "Help! Help! I'm being attacked!". Possibly its > because I have had to deal with (and have become very frustrated > with) security people complaining about exactly this case, you > captured their blind panic perfectly.... Anyway... > > This is a really well written draft. When I do submit draft > feedback I usually have multiple pages of notes, this time all I > have is 2 very minor suggestions: > > -------- > Notes on: draft-jabley-as112-being-attacked-help-help-00 > > Section 2. Private-Use Addresses > Due to the expected audience it may be helpful to enumerate the > RFC1918 ranges (yes, I know you cite the RFC, but...), eg: > "Many sites connected to the Internet make use of address blocks > designated in [RFC1918] for private use. These blocks span 10.0.0.0 > - 10.255.255.255, 172.16.0.0-172.31.0.0, 192.168.0.0-192.168.255.255" > > Section 4. Reverse DNS for Private-Use Addresses > "This means that sending queries out to the Internet is > not sensible:" -- perhaps you can replace the word sensible with > one that is less charged? Perhaps "pointless"? Yes, sending queries > to the Internet *is not* sensible, but once someone is pointed at > this doc they are probably a: a bit panicked, b: riled up and c: > going to be a bit touchy. > > Anyway, these really are very minor points, and I'm really glad > that you have taken the time to write this. > > Warren. > > > . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jun 23 15:58:23 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtrnL-00064e-7d for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:58:23 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtrnJ-0007Hr-9S for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:58:23 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1+kh3BsfTSq91FQwoTFaVucFieuyOuiVPw@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NJJh67004475; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:19:43 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5NJJhua004473; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:19:43 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NJJgTF004468 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:19:43 -0700 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5NJJawO009124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:19:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:19:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@citation2.av8.net To: Joe Abley cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu, William Maton Subject: Re: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > Hi all, > > William Maton and I have prepared two drafts relating to the AS112 > project: > > draft-jabley-as112-ops-00 3.3. Operating System and Host Considerations The use of a UNIX or UNIX-like operating system (e.g. FreeBSD, GNU Linux) is recommended for the construction of AS112 nodes, primarily due to the cumulative experience of using such platforms for this purpose. Examples in this document will assume use of such an operating system. [...] Section 3.3 should removed. Choice of host operating system has no relevance to DNS operations. Use of loopback interfaces etc, is likewise irrelevant. > draft-jabley-as112-being-attacked-help-help-00 This draft seems to entirely miss the point, and unhelpfully belittles the fact that AS112 servers may in fact be used (perhaps have already been used) to conduct DOS attacks. I have rarely seen IDS systems alarm over genuine DNS traffic to external servers. The IDS sees the query go out, and the corresponding answer come back. The IDS has no idea of whether a query to, say 1.1.168.192.in-addr.arpa. __ought__ to go out... but would just treat it like any other query. The IDS only alarms when it starts getting answers for queries that weren't sent. Receiving responses to unsent queries is an indication of a real DOS attack. So, when you start getting calls from admins saying they are under attack from AS112, you probably should take that more seriously, and assist them, rather than explaining what AS112 does. Nothing that AS112 does makes it immune from involvement in a DOS attack. > Having been recently in the unenviable position[1] of answering phone > calls from angry people regarding the denial-of-service attack from > PRISONER.IANA.ORG on their firewalls (source port 53), Probably you should have responded differently to their calls: They were probably legitimate DOS attacks involving AS112 servers. So, I think the this draft should be dropped. Or, in its place, a draft advising AS112 to be more helpful in the future. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jun 23 16:15:12 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fts3c-0002E6-Ri for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:15:12 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fts3b-0000Cq-FQ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:15:12 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1+xJD+JenRBTIEvItp/2MfVdhaWyzORX0o@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NJlQpw011532; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:47:26 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5NJlQUK011530; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:47:26 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NJlPII011525 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 12:47:25 -0700 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5NJlOHs009154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:47:24 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:47:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@citation2.av8.net To: Joe Abley cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu, William Maton Subject: Re: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > draft-jabley-as112-ops-00 In section 3.1, this text should be removed: o Anycast distribution of DNS services ([ISC-TN-2003-1], [I-D.ietf- grow-anycast]). 1) draft-ietf-grow-anycast is based on a known scientific fraud, and is currently under appeal to the IESG for several inappropriate acts. References to known scientific frauds should be removed. 2) draft-ietf-grow-anycast documents stateful anycast. Stateful isn't required or used for AS112 operations. AS112 is a stateless operation. Stateful queries can be dropped. (probably all queries could be dropped) Reference to RFC1546 stateless anycast should be made instead. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jun 23 17:01:20 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtsmG-0002dR-Rd for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:01:20 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtsmF-0004PP-Ex for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:01:20 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX18xrbWBL62sBcYW05/XQNYx3ElEKBjztnU@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NKKlxi015927; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:20:47 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5NKKldV015925; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:20:47 -0700 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NKKkhW015910 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:20:46 -0700 Received: from octopus.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.5]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.61 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Fts8u-000AoB-CN; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:20:40 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu, William Maton Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:20:38 -0400 To: Dean Anderson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Hi Dean! I will note that the only question before the wg associated with this particular mailing list is whether or not these two drafts might benefit from adoption as working group documents. Comments on the content seems somewhat orthogonal to that goal, but since you asked here, I'll reply here. On 23-Jun-2006, at 15:19, Dean Anderson wrote: > Section 3.3 should removed. Choice of host operating system has no > relevance to > DNS operations. Use of loopback interfaces etc, is likewise > irrelevant. Thanks for the feedback. >> draft-jabley-as112-being-attacked-help-help-00 > > This draft seems to entirely miss the point, and unhelpfully > belittles the fact > that AS112 servers may in fact be used (perhaps have already been > used) to > conduct DOS attacks. If you can provide details to expand upon the fact you describe above, that would be most helpful. Without some context, I am struggling to understand what you are talking about. > I have rarely seen IDS systems alarm over genuine DNS traffic to > external > servers. I have no reason to doubt you. However, having been one of the small group of people responsible for answering the phone when people call the AS112 netblock contact, I can tell you that your experience is not universal. Your advice to treat reports of abuse seriously is of course valid, but unnecessary in this case. >> Having been recently in the unenviable position[1] of answering phone >> calls from angry people regarding the denial-of-service attack from >> PRISONER.IANA.ORG on their firewalls (source port 53), > > Probably you should have responded differently to their calls: They > were > probably legitimate DOS attacks involving AS112 servers. All the calls I responded to were investigated thoroughly. I have no reason to doubt that any of the other calls which were handled with others enjoyed any less diligence. None of the calls I responded to related to DOS attacks involving AS112 servers; all of them involved replies being returned from the Internet towards hosts that firewall admins had not considered might ever send requests to the outside world. Joe . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jun 23 17:33:18 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FttGA-0000VA-IT for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:32:14 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FttEL-0002ZU-83 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:30:21 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftt1T-0002H2-4R for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 17:17:05 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1/CE9+ImRHEU1hoP4OyyD5t8fdGwFa4mKY@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NKccT0016431; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:38:38 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5NKccPn016429; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:38:38 -0700 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NKcbc0016407 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:38:37 -0700 Received: from octopus.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.5]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.61 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1FtsQB-000B7s-O6; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:38:32 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <8153E300-C8C1-4027-9E68-91FA9A9DE767@ca.afilias.info> Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu, William Maton Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:38:30 -0400 To: Dean Anderson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 Hi Dean! This note has very limited application to the AS112 project, but since you asked it here I am happy to give you the courtesy of a response. Further comments on draft-ietf-grow-anycast should properly be directed to the grow mailing list, where I will be happy to contribute if I can add value to the discussion. I won't continue discussing them on dnsop, however. On 23-Jun-2006, at 15:47, Dean Anderson wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > >> draft-jabley-as112-ops-00 > > In section 3.1, this text should be removed: > > o Anycast distribution of DNS services ([ISC-TN-2003-1], [I- > D.ietf- > grow-anycast]). > > 1) draft-ietf-grow-anycast is based on a known scientific fraud, > and is > currently under appeal to the IESG for several inappropriate acts. > References to > known scientific frauds should be removed. I'm not familiar with precisely what you have appealed against; for example, it's my impression that you sent a formal appeal to the IESG complaining about a decision that they had not yet made, since the last call was still in process, as were the Secdir and Gen-ART reviews. Feedback from those reviews has resulted in a -04 draft, which is not yet in the i-d queue. Since you haven't seen that draft, your confidence in being able to criticise it is puzzling. I think the most appropriate thing for now with respect to draft- jabley-as112-ops is to leave the reference in place, since it's currently the only non-expired document in the IETF which comes close to explaining current practice. If it comes to pass in the future that the IESG decides not to proceed with draft-ietf-grow-anycast, then the reference can be modified or removed as appropriate. > 2) draft-ietf-grow-anycast documents stateful anycast. It does describe the anycast distribution of services whose protocols involve keeping state. It also documents the anycast distribution of stateless services. > Stateful isn't required > or used for AS112 operations. AS112 is a stateless operation. Since AS112 servers answer queries over TCP transport, that's not correct. [octopus:~]% dig @prisoner.iana.org 10.in-addr.arpa soa +tcp +short as112.ixnm.net. info.ixnm.net. 2003030100 3600 600 2592000 15 [octopus:~]% > Stateful queries can be dropped. (probably all queries could be > dropped) Operational indicates that such practice has a real impact on production services. Regardless of the fact that such services could feasibly be described as broken, depending as they do on public authority servers for private netblocks to exist and function correctly, any decision which causes production services to fail should not be taken lightly. > Reference to RFC1546 > stateless anycast should be made instead. Your opinion on this matter is noted! Joe . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jun 23 19:00:11 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtucA-0002XL-JX for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:59:02 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtuYJ-0007yC-J5 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:55:05 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1+UgdTKu5LNEeacQM4g2N9nlhh5P5iUcdI@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NMLj63008884; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:21:45 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5NMLjt4008882; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:21:45 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NMLiI2008877 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:21:45 -0700 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5NMLdRK009275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:21:43 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:21:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@citation2.av8.net To: Joe Abley cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu, William Maton Subject: Re: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc On Fri, 23 Jun 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > Hi Dean! > > I will note that the only question before the wg associated with this > particular mailing list is whether or not these two drafts might > benefit from adoption as working group documents. Comments on the > content seems somewhat orthogonal to that goal, but since you asked > here, I'll reply here. I thought they were submitted to DNSOP. How did they get in the ID-Tracker? > >> draft-jabley-as112-being-attacked-help-help-00 > > > > This draft seems to entirely miss the point, and unhelpfully belittles the > > fact that AS112 servers may in fact be used (perhaps have already been used) > > to conduct DOS attacks. > > If you can provide details to expand upon the fact you describe > above, that would be most helpful. Without some context, I am > struggling to understand what you are talking about. You have already provided the details: That is, the fact that you didn't consider the attacks to be actual attacks, but rather "panic attacks". From AS112, you wouldn't be able to know if they were indeed "panic attacks", unless you had in fact assisted in tracing the source of the packets, which you imply wasn't done, and would be done even less if your draft were approved. > > I have rarely seen IDS systems alarm over genuine DNS traffic to external > > servers. > > I have no reason to doubt you. However, having been one of the small > group of people responsible for answering the phone when people call > the AS112 netblock contact, I can tell you that your experience is > not universal. > > Your advice to treat reports of abuse seriously is of course valid, > but unnecessary in this case. How is it that you know this? You assert complaints were made, and that you disregarded those complaints; that the admins "panic'ed". > >> Having been recently in the unenviable position[1] of answering phone > >> calls from angry people regarding the denial-of-service attack from > >> PRISONER.IANA.ORG on their firewalls (source port 53), > > > > Probably you should have responded differently to their calls: They > > were > > probably legitimate DOS attacks involving AS112 servers. > > All the calls I responded to were investigated thoroughly. I have no > reason to doubt that any of the other calls which were handled with > others enjoyed any less diligence. It sounds very much like the admins making the complaints, disagreed. Perhaps if you send me the contact info for some of those admins, I'll follow up to see if they were satisfied with your response. > None of the calls I responded to related to DOS attacks involving AS112 > servers; How could that be? The admins making the complaints didn't seem to agree. > all of them involved replies being returned from the Internet towards hosts > that firewall admins had not considered might ever send requests to the > outside world. Please explain this, further. So machines that weren't nameservers were sending DNS requests (for in-addr.arpa) to the outside world? --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jun 23 19:05:47 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftuih-0004sj-HJ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:05:47 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftuih-0000Is-1U for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:05:47 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1+IUKOxf2MH//HMQYRxQ0Xx5+BS2hQ7MQ4@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NMYF4v009183; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:34:15 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5NMYFLp009181; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:34:15 -0700 Received: from wes.hardakers.net (dcn236-43.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.236.43]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NLuiwo008192 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:56:44 -0700 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id A710D11D5AC; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:56:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Hardaker To: Suresh Krishnaswamy Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] split view comments Organization: Sparta Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:56:42 -0700 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110004 (No Gnus v0.4) XEmacs/21.4.19 (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 156eddb66af16eef49a76ae923b15b92 These are on the -02 draft. Sorry they took so long for me to type up (I read it quite a while ago). Sadly this also meant I'm trying to understand my own notes ;-) General comments: - overall I think it's an important document to have. If people are going to do split views (and they will) then we should at least describe how to do it correctly. - I'd be tempted to list motivation for the document a bit better. IE, explicitly state "these are the goals of this document" - the problem with the solution, however, is easily noticed from the number of hosts in figure 1. If it takes so many hosts it's unlikely people will be highly motivated to do split-view the way you're hoping they will. - I'd actually make a recommendation somewhere in the document with a bit more strength. Yes, it outlines choices but I'd be really tempted to say what you should do instead of using split-views if you can (eg, use internal.example.com for internal data and thus it only exposes the existence of the internal NS record and nothing else if the name server can't be reached. but if you're unwilling to do that, this document is for you). section 1, 3rd paragraph: OLD: The security extensions to DNS... NEW: The security extensions to DNS (commonly labeled "DNSSEC")... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ OLD: configured at the end resolver to the signed record NEW: configured at the end validating resolver to the signed record ^^^^^^^^^^ Section 2.1, 4th paragraph: Re: split-views is not recommended for hiding ... names can be leaked out. I suggest you explain how things are leaked (NSEC) rather than just say things are leaked. last P of 2.1: you should state something like "The diagrams in the next section help document this architecture". end of 2.1: also might be worth mentioning that some name servers don't provide decent configuration of view-boundaries and thus some of these solutions are likely only implementable on certain architectures. section 2.2, second paragraph (at end): you should mention where the externally authoritative server needs to be located. Figure 1: I think this diagram is functional, but it took me a bit of study to understand all the components of it. I do wonder if we could make it more clear. One of the biggest questions I had that wasn't intuitively clear is why there is a CLIENTS listed inbetween the inner and outer packet filters. Possibly more of a block diagram might be helpful. Something like (this is not at all complete): INTERNAL DMZ EXTERNAL NETWORK BOUNDARY NETWORK | | +---------------+ | | | Internal | | | | Authoritative | | | | Server | | | +---------------+ | | ^ | | | | | | | | +---------+ +---------------+ | +--------+ | +-------------+ | | | Internal | | | Second | | | | | Clients | | Recursive | | | Level | | | External | | | | Forwarder | | | Name | | | Nameservers | | | --> | |--|->| Server | -------|-->| | +---------+ +---------------+ | +--------+ | +-------------+ | | | | | | | | | | | +---------------+ | | | | External | | -----------------|->| Authoritative | | | | Server | | | +---------------+ | | | I think that's just slightly more readable... I could tinker with it more if you want to consider using it. Section 2.3: Add a reference for TSIG Section 2.4.1, 2.4.2: Implies TSIG is only used in one direction... Needs to be used for both? I'm not a TSIG expert (to say the least. Though I've used it I haven't studied the docs), but I'd think if you received a TSIG request you need to send the response protected as well? Or is it independent (in which case, unidirectional is fine since you only care that the 2nd level server only handles requests from authorized hosts). Section 3: OLD: Any data in any view that is likely to be spoofed has to be signed. NEW: Any data in any view that may be spoofed has to be signed. ^^^ (I didn't think the word "likely" is a good choice here. You want to imply "important" and whether it's "possible" not the possibility of whether it's going to be spoofed or not) Section 3.2, first sentence: OLD: the external zone data. NEW: the external zone data (does not include sub-domains). Section 3.4: worth mentioning (last sentence) that the only data that can be polluted is data from the other zone... I don't think it's clear that's what you're talking about to newer readers. section 3.6: "All name servers listed below..." listed where? I don't see a list... I suspect this section is incomplete? rule sections 4.1-4.2: I'd explicitly list the drop rules as well... You're only listing the accept rules and I'd hate to see someone just put in the accept rules without the drop counterparts. Section 4.1, clients in the boundary network: Might say that if there aren't any, you can just drop these? section 5, paragraph 3: This is a fairly negative sounding paragraph... I'd either say "don't do it unless absolutely possible" or "if you, these methods are the only way to avoid the pitfalls". section 7: last sentence: this needs to be stated much earlier in the document as well. This is what I kept expecting to see earlier but didn't. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jun 23 19:15:00 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fturc-00011J-UK for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:15:00 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fturb-0000WM-E5 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:15:00 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX19VJlt3VpINdkSMB8NTY+VMmhVB1qcXVLU@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NMfQFA009326; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:41:26 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5NMfQ4x009324; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:41:26 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NMfPgQ009319 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:41:25 -0700 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5NMfOHL009290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:41:24 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:41:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@citation2.av8.net To: Joe Abley cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu, William Maton Subject: Re: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts In-Reply-To: <8153E300-C8C1-4027-9E68-91FA9A9DE767@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b132cb3ed2d4be2017585bf6859e1ede On Fri, 23 Jun 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > Hi Dean! > > This note has very limited application to the AS112 project, but since you > asked it here I am happy to give you the courtesy of a response. If you want to put it in the draft, and you want DNSOP to consider the draft, then its relevant. > Further comments on draft-ietf-grow-anycast should properly be directed to the > grow mailing list, where I will be happy to contribute if I can add value to > the discussion. I won't continue discussing them on dnsop, however. You do not need to discuss the matter if you agree to remove the references. Otherwise, its part of the content of the draft on this working group. > On 23-Jun-2006, at 15:47, Dean Anderson wrote: > > > On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > > > >> draft-jabley-as112-ops-00 > > > > In section 3.1, this text should be removed: > > > > o Anycast distribution of DNS services ([ISC-TN-2003-1], [I- > > D.ietf- > > grow-anycast]). > > > > 1) draft-ietf-grow-anycast is based on a known scientific fraud, and is > > currently under appeal to the IESG for several inappropriate acts. > > References to known scientific frauds should be removed. > > I'm not familiar with precisely what you have appealed against; I think you are, or ought to be, being on the GROW WG, and author of the draft appealed, since this was discussed on the GROW WG, and is documented on the IESG Appeals page. > for example, it's my impression that you sent a formal appeal to the IESG > complaining about a decision that they had not yet made, since the last call > was still in process, as were the Secdir and Gen-ART reviews. No, your impression is incorrect. But you can read that in the Appeal. > Feedback from those reviews has resulted in a -04 draft, which is not yet in > the i-d queue. Since you haven't seen that draft, your confidence in being > able to criticise it is puzzling. I have not made any criticism of the "secret" -04 draft. However, since the notion of stateful anycast is itself a fraud, it seems impossible that you can fix the GROW draft. I look forward to seeing the -04 draft, however, and whatever new complaints arise from it. > I think the most appropriate thing for now with respect to draft- > jabley-as112-ops is to leave the reference in place, since it's > currently the only non-expired document in the IETF which comes close > to explaining current practice. If it comes to pass in the future > that the IESG decides not to proceed with draft-ietf-grow-anycast, > then the reference can be modified or removed as appropriate. I strongly disagree. The GROW document doesn't explain any current practice whatsoever. Its entirely based on fraudulent claims and fictions. > > 2) draft-ietf-grow-anycast documents stateful anycast. > > It does describe the anycast distribution of services whose protocols > involve keeping state. It also documents the anycast distribution of > stateless services. The notion of stateful anycast is a fiction. There is no documentation of stateless anycast in the document that isn't also contained in RFC1546. > > Stateful isn't required > > or used for AS112 operations. AS112 is a stateless operation. > > Since AS112 servers answer queries over TCP transport, that's not > correct. > > [octopus:~]% dig @prisoner.iana.org 10.in-addr.arpa soa +tcp +short > as112.ixnm.net. info.ixnm.net. 2003030100 3600 600 2592000 15 > [octopus:~]% This isn't a real test of stateful anycast, as you well know. > > Stateful queries can be dropped. (probably all queries could be > > dropped) > > Operational indicates that such practice has a real impact on production > services. Regardless of the fact that such services could feasibly be > described as broken, depending as they do on public authority servers for > private netblocks to exist and function correctly, any decision which causes > production services to fail should not be taken lightly. The purpose of AS112 is to stop otherwise undelegated queries from loading down in-addr.arpa, .arpa, and ultimately reaching root nameservers. They do not need actual responses to achieve this goal. All that is necessary are delgation records, and quickly blackholed IP addresses for the delegated nameservers. Nameserver software isn't even required. > > Reference to RFC1546 stateless anycast should be made instead. > > Your opinion on this matter is noted! Thanks. Look for to seeing that in the document. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jun 23 19:28:34 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftv4k-0007R6-3x for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:28:34 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ftv4h-00013I-NJ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:28:34 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1/sluUR/MJDyNeem3NUmPzNwzNmE3INbKw@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NMwB79009818; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:58:11 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5NMwBVt009816; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:58:11 -0700 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NMwBls009811 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:58:11 -0700 Received: from octopus.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.5]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.61 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1FtubF-000CAh-Iq; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 22:58:06 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <8C550BAB-6733-4DAD-ACE9-81061ADDD3A6@ca.afilias.info> Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu, William Maton Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:58:04 -0400 To: Dean Anderson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c On 23-Jun-2006, at 18:21, Dean Anderson wrote: > I thought they were submitted to DNSOP. How did they get in the ID- > Tracker? They're individual submissions (the absence of "dnsop" from their names might have provided a clue). They were submitted according to the normal published procedure. >> If you can provide details to expand upon the fact you describe >> above, that would be most helpful. Without some context, I am >> struggling to understand what you are talking about. > > You have already provided the details: That is, the fact that you > didn't > consider the attacks to be actual attacks, but rather "panic attacks". That's not the case, so my question remains. >> Your advice to treat reports of abuse seriously is of course valid, >> but unnecessary in this case. > > How is it that you know this? You assert complaints were made, and > that you > disregarded those complaints; that the admins "panic'ed". Complaints were made, the complaints were answered, and none were disregarded, as I said, and as you quoted: >> All the calls I responded to were investigated thoroughly. I have no >> reason to doubt that any of the other calls which were handled with >> others enjoyed any less diligence. > > It sounds very much like the admins making the complaints, disagreed. How you can presume to know details of private phone calls is a little perplexing. > Perhaps if you send me the contact info for some of those admins, > I'll follow up to see > if they were satisfied with your response. If I ever feel the need to solicit volunteers to perform a customer satisfaction survey for anything I do, you'll be the first person I call :-) >> all of them involved replies being returned from the Internet >> towards hosts >> that firewall admins had not considered might ever send requests >> to the >> outside world. > > Please explain this, further. So machines that weren't nameservers > were sending > DNS requests (for in-addr.arpa) to the outside world? Please read the draft. This is described in some detail. Joe . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jun 23 19:39:32 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtvFM-0002rt-LV for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:39:32 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FtvFL-0001NW-9V for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:39:32 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1/llpLLkAOy6m2mUY+EVzD9Ot/IuuCWpCo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NN9xqU010663; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:09:59 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5NN9xXC010661; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:09:59 -0700 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5NN9wV1010656 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:09:58 -0700 Received: from octopus.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.5]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.61 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ftumb-000CH9-Q1; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:09:53 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <8608B374-2B90-4919-982E-13B6ADBDB8B8@ca.afilias.info> Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu, William Maton Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:09:48 -0400 To: Dean Anderson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b On 23-Jun-2006, at 18:41, Dean Anderson wrote: > On Fri, 23 Jun 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > >> This note has very limited application to the AS112 project, but >> since you >> asked it here I am happy to give you the courtesy of a response. > > If you want to put it in the draft, and you want DNSOP to consider > the draft, > then its relevant. Not really. The reference is an active document, and its content is relevant to this draft. If the draft referred to dies, then replacing it with a different reference might well make sense. However, while the draft referred to is alive, and the most appropriate reference, I don't see any reason to make a change. If this were a working group document, then this matter would be a matter of consensus. Since it's an individual submission, I believe it's up to us as authors, and any differences of opinion you might have with us should properly be brought up if the documents are ever last-called. It's difficult to characterise your objection as anything other than an oblique reaction to the anycast draft, however, of which your dislike is profoundly on-record. Is there really new ground to cover, here? Unless anybody else here has a profound desire to see this circular thread continue, I think I will stop at this point. Joe . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Sat Jun 24 05:25:39 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu4OZ-00087M-On for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 05:25:39 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu4OY-00075H-CP for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 05:25:39 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1/GtouTAgbhap7bfEEGo9sVt4QqDYCdXfc@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5O8ltdn022316; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 01:47:55 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5O8ltsw022314; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 01:47:55 -0700 Received: from smtp.denic.de (smtp.denic.de [81.91.161.3]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5O8lsH6022309 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 01:47:54 -0700 Received: from mail-int1.denic.de (mail-int1.denic.de [192.168.0.45]) by smtp.denic.de with esmtp id 1Fu3nw-0005p7-Aa; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:47:48 +0200 Received: from localhost by mail-int1.denic.de with local id 1Fu3nm-0003b5-00; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:47:38 +0200 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:47:38 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: Dean Anderson Cc: David Kessens , Dan Romascanu , Joe Abley , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu, William Maton Subject: Warning [Re: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts] Message-ID: <20060624084738.GA11514@denics7.denic.de> References: <8153E300-C8C1-4027-9E68-91FA9A9DE767@ca.afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Dean, > I think you are, or ought to be, being on the GROW WG, and author of the draft > appealed, since this was discussed on the GROW WG, and is documented on the IESG > Appeals page. the discussion of matters of the GROW WG is out of the scope of dnsop and thus out of scope for this mailing list. > I have not made any criticism of the "secret" -04 draft. However, since the > notion of stateful anycast is itself a fraud, it seems impossible that you can > fix the GROW draft. I look forward to seeing the -04 draft, however, and > whatever new complaints arise from it. [...] > I strongly disagree. The GROW document doesn't explain any current practice > whatsoever. Its entirely based on fraudulent claims and fictions. The tone expressed here (``fraud'') as well as in the earlier message , is inacceptable. The RFC 3683 PR ACTION as documented in enables maintainers of other IETF mailing lists, including this list, to remove your posting rights. Please consider this the final warning. You are asked to return to a civilized mode of discussion and to not discuss out of scope issues. The WG chairs will remove your posting rights upon your next failure to follow this request. This message is not subject to discussion or negotiation on this list. -Peter Koch DNSOP co-chair . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Sat Jun 24 05:42:21 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu4ej-0004i0-1c for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 05:42:21 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu4eh-0000cT-Jq for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 05:42:21 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX18BgGxqi+KqrM/n6bpbVI/P2QFXP5eA2ok@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5O95XCK022593; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:05:33 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5O95XZT022591; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:05:33 -0700 Received: from smtp.denic.de (smtp.denic.de [81.91.161.3]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5O95WNC022584 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:05:32 -0700 Received: from mail-int1.denic.de (mail-int1.denic.de [192.168.0.45]) by smtp.denic.de with esmtp id 1Fu451-0007hq-3n; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:05:27 +0200 Received: from localhost by mail-int1.denic.de with local id 1Fu450-0005jA-00; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:05:26 +0200 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:05:26 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts Message-ID: <20060624090526.GB11514@denics7.denic.de> References:

Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 > I thought they were submitted to DNSOP. How did they get in the ID-Tracker? As a matter of general clarification: The IETF I-D tracker tool will give access to all I-Ds, WG documents and individual submissions. WG documents are identified by their filename starting with "draft-ietf-dnsop-". The DNSOP Status Pages will list WG drafts as well as individual submissions that contain the substring "-dnsop-". This is just a matter of convenience and there is no formal approval process for a draft to bear this token. Of course, it's a good idea to notify the WG chairs of any such submission and the author's intent. Joe chose not to include the "-dnsop-" token, but instead sent a mail to this list. In addition, there will be an agenda item in Montreal. So, the two "AS112" drafts are not WG drafts. The authors asked, in consultation with the WG chairs, whether the WG would consider adoption of these drafts useful. -Peter . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Sat Jun 24 06:01:13 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu4wz-0008Rg-1v for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 06:01:13 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fu4wx-0004K2-FH for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 06:01:13 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX19Tq2jmi7Prt44bCxyu9oxwq1cEqfgTigk@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5O9K9VY023085; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:20:09 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5O9K9bH023083; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:20:09 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5O9K8C6023077 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 02:20:08 -0700 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5O9Jvn0010034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 24 Jun 2006 05:20:02 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 05:19:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@citation2.av8.net To: Joe Abley cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu, , William Maton Subject: Re: [dnsop] two AS112 drafts In-Reply-To: <8608B374-2B90-4919-982E-13B6ADBDB8B8@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1562/Fri Jun 23 00:50:07 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b1c41982e167b872076d0018e4e1dc3c IESG--This is probably relevant to the Appeal on draft-ietf-grow-anycast, and illustrates why the draft-ietf-grow-anycast document should be killed. I note in the datatracker for draft-ietf-grow-anycast, and am told by Abley, that they plan to take the document to another draft -04, even though there is no chance for the document to avoid the stateful anycast subject fraud. Nor is there any chance of achieving consensus in light of the information known about the fraud. Keeping the draft-ietf-grow-anycast document alive in any form gives the perpetrators the (deception) opportunity to reference the document in new drafts, as described by Abley below. Working group chairs should probably also be warned to be alert for documents that promote the fraudulent stateful anycast scheme. There is also a note pointed out below from Joe Abley regarding my opposition to the draft-ietf-grow-anycast which directly contradicts David Kessens statements in the datatracker comments for draft-ietf-grow-anycast. More inline. On Fri, 23 Jun 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > > On 23-Jun-2006, at 18:41, Dean Anderson wrote: > > > On Fri, 23 Jun 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > > > >> This note has very limited application to the AS112 project, but since you > >> asked it here I am happy to give you the courtesy of a response. > > > > If you want to put it in the draft, and you want DNSOP to consider the > > draft, then its relevant. > > Not really. The reference [draft-ietf-grow-anycast -ed.] is an active > document, and its content is relevant to this draft. If the draft referred to > dies, then replacing it with a different reference might well make sense. > However, while the draft referred to is alive, and the most appropriate > reference, I don't see any reason to make a change. What the DNSOP group may not know, [but ISC, RIPE, Joe Abley, David Kessens, and the IESG do know], is that the report claiming that stateful anycast was stable was fabricated, and no stateful testing was performed by the DNSMON program. The notion of a safe stateful anycast operation as asserted by Daniel Karrenberg (http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0505/pdf/karrenberg.pdf) has now been discredited. Karrenberg's document misled people to believe that stateful anycast was safe, when in fact Karrenberg didn't perform any stateful testing whatsoever. So, there is no evidence that stateful anycast is safe, and substantial evidence that it is not safe: Mark Kosters reports on data gathered at J root: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0410/pdf/kosters.pdf + Expected to see a saw tooth distribution . instead have a noisy distribution in many cases + Does not affect UDP + DO NOT RUN Anycast with Stateful Transport http://www.rssac.org/meetings/04-08/2004WashDC.html Kosters repeats warning on stateful DNS Anycast, but is disputed by Karrenberg. It is later found (January, 2006) that Karrenberg has done no stateful testing whatsoever, and did not reveal that his testing was only for stateless DNS, and therefore irrelevant to Kosters data. This discovery was only made when Anderson examined the source code to the DNSMON program written by Karrenberg to conduct this testing. Now put this in context along with repeated assertions from Joe Abley and others associated with ISC and RIPE that stateful anycast is safe and even non-controversial. > If this were a working group document, then this matter would be a matter of > consensus. Since it's an individual submission, I believe it's up to us as > authors, and any differences of opinion you might have with us should properly > be brought up if the documents are ever last-called. So, basically, I can't object until it is last-called? How interesting, given that the GROW document was improperly last-called without consensus. So, you want me to wait till last-call to raise these objections? That seems like a waste of time in the meantime. This draft inappropriately promotes the fraudulent notion of stateful anycast. Your scheme here seems to me to abuse the process, in spite of on-going issues with scientifically fraudulent stateful anycast claims in the GROW document by you (Abley) and other conspirators named in the IESG Appeal on this subject. > It's difficult to characterise your objection as anything other than an > oblique reaction to the anycast draft, however, of which your dislike is > profoundly on-record. This strikes me as odd thing to say. Its odd because David Kessens told the IESG in the datatracker comments on the GROW draft that I (Anderson) didn't object strongly to the anycast draft. How do you think he came to that conclusion when, as you point out, its so plain that my 'dislike is so profound'? Strange indeed. I suppose this and other odd behavior is why I named him as a co-conspirator, and asked the IESG to take action against him. However, there is a different characterization of my objection: Active drafts shouldn't contain scientifically fraudulent claims. The inclusion of this fraudulent claim to your new draft while the GROW draft is disputed for this very reason, seems to be more evidence of mis-behavior on your part, and also reflects on your (already named in IESG Appeal) co-conspirators. And perhaps on the person who added this draft to the ID-tracker. Who was that? (you didn't answer my first request) > Is there really new ground to cover, here? No, not really anything new. So why are you bringing up discredited claims again? > Unless anybody else here has a profound desire to see this circular thread > continue, I think I will stop at this point. I do agree this is a somewhat circular thread--in the sense that we've had this dicussion before. But I think you should have stopped at the GROW document...Or probably before then. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From revenger_desyroyer_a25@yahoo.co.jp Mon Jun 26 00:45:30 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FuiyY-0001sA-FS for dnsop-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 00:45:30 -0400 Received: from [58.244.60.243] (helo=megatron.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FuiyW-0005wO-C2 for dnsop-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 00:45:30 -0400 To: From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?bmFuYW1p?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJTklXSVzJTUhPBsoQiAbJEJGYkRqRExDTiFaRkNKTEF3Py4hWxsoQg==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 $BFbDjDLCN(B*$BJV?.4|F|(B07$B7n(B02$BF|Kx!Z(B10$BK|1_3MF@8"Mx(B $B![%"%C%W",(B $B2DG=(B $B!!(B $B5U!!!!!!1g!!!!!!=u!!!!!!Fb!!!!!!Dj!!!!!!DL!!!!!!CN(B $B$"$J$?$K1g=u3[#1#0K|1_0J>e$N5U1g=u$r$7$FD:$1$k=w@-(B($B%9%]%s%5!<(B)$B$N3MF@(B $B8"Mx$,FbDj$$$?$7$^$7$?$3$H$r$4Js9p$7$^$9!#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(B $B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(B 07$B7n(B02$BF|Kx$K2<5-=w@-$KD>@\$4O"MmD:$1$l$P8"Mx3MF@$H$J$j$^$9$N$G(B $B$h$m$7$/$*4j$$$$$?$7$^$9!#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(B $BKt:#2sFbDjDLCN!ZFCJLAw?.![$N0Y2<5-$G$40FFb$N%9%]%s%5!$N=w@-MM$N%"%I!&"M!!(Bhttp://qwpr.com/?num=0070 + $B%9%]%s%5!<(B $B=w@-(BID 271376 $B!!$*L>A0!!@FF#??5*MM!!(B36$B:P(B $B!ZCm0U![(B $B!&$3$A$i$N%a!<%k$O$"$/$^$G$b5U1g=uFbDj$N9pCN%a!<%k$G$9!#(B $B5U1g=u3NDj$r$*CN$i$;$9$k$b$N$G$O$"$j$^$;$s!#I,$:4|F|$^$G$KD>@\=w@-(B $B$K$4O"Mm$r$$$l$F$/$@$5$$!#(B $B=w@-$H0)$C$?$i$9$0$K:Y$+$$6b3[@_Dj$rFs?M$G$43NG'$7$F2<$5$$!#(B $B$"$J$?$O$*6b$r"M!!(Bhttp://qwpr.com/?num=0070 $B:#8eG[?.$r5qH]$5$l$kJ}$O(B refuse@renai-h1.com From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Jun 27 19:06:18 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvMdO-00024s-LY for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 19:06:18 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvLrm-00039I-KL for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:17:06 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvKHQ-0006yJ-3g for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:35:30 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX19OGDgHcisOFhMYvL7GyDwCgW3RnQaagjs@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5RJoGKC014525; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:50:16 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5RJoGoK014523; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:50:16 -0700 Received: from oak.neustar.com (oak.neustar.com [209.173.53.70]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5RJoFBH014517 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:50:15 -0700 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by oak.neustar.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5RJo21u030549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Jun 2006 19:50:02 GMT Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvJZS-0005Gn-5l; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-03.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:50:02 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1568/Tue Jun 27 11:39:17 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Scan-Signature: f66b12316365a3fe519e75911daf28a8 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : DNS Response Size Issues Author(s) : P. Vixie, . Kato Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-03.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2006-6-27 With a mandated default minimum maximum message size of 512 octets, the DNS protocol presents some special problems for zones wishing to expose a moderate or high number of authority servers (NS RRs). This document explains the operational issues caused by, or related to this response size limit. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-03.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-03.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-03.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-6-27123510.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-03.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-6-27123510.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Jun 28 17:34:34 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvhgA-00007H-Cn for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:34:34 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvgle-0000wT-I3 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:36:11 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX18OZh29qZX6l4Y/9nGKmX814GBho2OAh3M@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5SJp8jE028658; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:51:08 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5SJp8Z0028656; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:51:08 -0700 Received: from cypress.neustar.com (cypress.neustar.com [209.173.57.84]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5SJp8uB028650 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:51:08 -0700 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by cypress.neustar.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5SJo2jx013886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:50:02 GMT Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvg30-00030k-7S; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-01.txt Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:50:02 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1572/Wed Jun 28 07:49:41 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : Preventing Use of Nameservers in Reflector Attacks Author(s) : J. Damas, F. Neves Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-01.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2006-6-28 This document describes the use of default configured recursive nameservers as reflectors on DOS attacks. Recommended configuration as measures to mitigate the attack are given. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-6-28125355.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-6-28125355.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Jun 28 19:27:34 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvjRW-0004zS-Cc for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:27:34 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FvjRU-0005Tt-Vs for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:27:34 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX18D8583gPBUmBcvfR/opERH/dutuB/skiM@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5SMoDJU028864; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:50:13 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5SMoDjc028861; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:50:13 -0700 Received: from pine.neustar.com (pine.neustar.com [209.173.57.70]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5SMoCPe028848 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:50:12 -0700 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by pine.neustar.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5SMo2UA000859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 28 Jun 2006 22:50:02 GMT Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvirC-0004nj-7z; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-07.txt Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:50:02 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1572/Wed Jun 28 07:49:41 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for a Mechanism Identifying a Name Server Instance Author(s) : D. Conrad, S. Woolf Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-07.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2006-6-28 With the increased use of DNS anycast, load balancing, and other mechanisms allowing more than one DNS name server to share a single IP address, it is sometimes difficult to tell which of a pool of name servers has answered a particular query. A standardized mechanism to determine the identity of a name server responding to a particular query would be useful, particularly as a diagnostic aid for administrators. Existing ad hoc mechanisms for addressing this need have some shortcomings, not the least of which is the lack of prior analysis of exactly how such a mechanism should be designed and deployed. This document describes the existing convention used in some widely deployed implementations of the DNS protocol, including advantages and disadvantages, and discusses some attributes of an improved mechanism. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-07.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-07.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-07.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-6-28165151.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-07.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-07.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-6-28165151.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Jun 30 01:59:44 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FwC2a-0006Xz-Q9 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:59:44 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FwC2W-0003Lw-5V for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:59:44 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1+nAz+Im7urEHFRFXd4s0W24DyIVY/pWXQ@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5U4qcSl017385; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:52:38 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k5U4qcCP017383; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:52:38 -0700 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k5U4qbPE017378 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:52:37 -0700 Received: from impact.jinmei.org (unknown [2001:200:1b1:1010:bc20:5932:16aa:607e]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 965E515228; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:52:36 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:52:15 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: [dnsop] Forward: Re: Last Call: 'IPv6 Router Advertisement Option for DNS Configuration' to Experimental RFC (draft-jeong-dnsop-ipv6-dns-discovery) References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Multipart_Fri_Jun_30_13:52:15_2006-1" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/1577/Thu Jun 29 13:18:18 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b6657e60309a1317174c9db2ae5f227 --Multipart_Fri_Jun_30_13:52:15_2006-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resending to the list with the source address that appears to be expected (the original message seems to have been filtered)... This time I'm also copying the ipv6 list. In fact, ipv6@ietf would be more suitable place for discussions on this proposal, since it's an extension to ND. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp --Multipart_Fri_Jun_30_13:52:15_2006-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:00:27 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: iesg@ietf.org Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: Last Call: 'IPv6 Router Advertisement Option for DNS Configuration' to Experimental RFC (draft-jeong-dnsop-ipv6-dns-discovery) In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >>>>> On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:47:07 -0400, >>>>> The IESG said: > The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider the > following document: > - 'IPv6 Router Advertisement Option for DNS Configuration ' > as an Experimental RFC > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits > final comments on this action. Please send any comments to the > iesg@ietf.org or ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2006-07-17. > The file can be obtained via > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jeong-dnsop-ipv6-dns-discovery-08.txt I have several comments on this draft: - A meta level comment I'm afraid I'm re-raising an old discussion (in which case I hope someone will point it out), but I'm concerned that this document may open up a possibility of making (autoconfiguration via) Router Advertisement a convenient and uncontrollable kitchen sink. In my understanding, the applicability of RA in the original design was limited to a minimum number of layer-3 configuration information parameters, such as subnet prefixes and default router addresses. If my understanding is correct and the design principle still applies, the proposed option is (IMO) against the principle because the configuration information provided by this document (i.e., recursive DNS server addresses) is (again IMO) at a far higher layer than the intended one. And the standardization of this option will then be used as an excuse for succeeding violation like "XXX server address ND option" for arbitrary "XXX" protocols. So, + I'd first like to confirm whether my understanding about the 'design principle' is correct. If it's wrong, then I'm fine and this concern will be resolved. + if my understanding is correct, I'd like this document to discuss why this particular option is so special and needs to be defined despite the violation of the principle, and to add an explicit note that configuration information around this layer should not be provided via RA unless there is a very strong reason. - other non editorial comments 1. (in section 1.1) > Using the lifetime field differentiate RA approach > from DHCPv6 approach in that it allows mobile nodes to use local > RDNSSes rather than remote RDNSSes in order to being able to reduce > the DNS resolution delay [6]-[8]. I don't think this is true. It seems to me that the DHCPv6 approach can provide the same thing (at least in this context) by means of the Information Refresh Time Option. If this statement tries to say the lifetime field can provide something more, it should be explicitly explained. 2. (in section 4) > The preference field of RDNSS option allows IPv6 hosts to select a > primary RDNSS among several RDNSSes; this can be used for load > balancing of RDNSSes. I don't see how the preference field helps load-balancing. Perhaps it assumes load-balancing by differentiating RRDNS preferences for different RAs? If so, I suspect it's not effective, but in any case I think it's non trivial and should be explained explicitly. 3. (in section 5.1, about the "S" flag) > This flag > SHOULD be set only if the routers or firewalls in > the network allow DNS Query messages to be routed > to the destination RDNSS without being filtered > out, and the RDNSS is configured to perform > recursive queries for all hosts regardless of > their addresses. My understanding is that current operational trend is generally against such "open recursive servers" as documented in draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-00.txt. So I'm skeptical about the usefulness of this flag. Standardizing such a practice may even be regarded as a conflict with the operational trend. I don't have a strong opinion by pointing it out, but I might consider removing this flag. 4. (in Section 8) > Note > This section will be removed after the assignment of RDNSS option > type. Is this correct? I'd rather expect the IANA considerations section will have the assigned option type number (if this option is ever approved, of course). - editorial comments 5. (in Section 1.1) > (e.g., 3GPP), MIPv6 (especially, HMIPv6), NEMO and MANET connected to I'd add (informational) references for MIPv6, HMIPv6, NEMO, and MANET. 6. (in Section 1.1) > Especially, the new RA option may be useful in some > mobile environments where the addresses of the RDNSSes are added or > deleted according to a mobile node's movement because the RA option > includes a lifetime field that allows the mobile node to delete the > expired entries for RDNSSes. It's not reasonable to see the acronym "RDNSS" is used before the definition (in Section 3). The full term should be used or given with the acronym. 7. (in Section 1.1) > This lifetime field can be configured > to a value that will require the mobile node to time out the RDNSS > address entry in the previous network and to switch over to another > RDNSS address in the same network. "the same network" sounds confusing to me. Is this the "previous network", or some different network after movement? I guess it's the latter from the context, and if so, I'd say e.g., "the current network" or "a new network". 8. (in Section 6.1) > Any least recently used (LRU) > policy that reclaims entries that have expired with Service-open- > flag set to 0 can be adopted for replacing the expired entries > with the entries for newly announced RDNSSes [4]. I don't understand why "[4]" (RFC2461) is referred to here. 9. (in Section 6.1) > When the S flag is set, the RDNSS may continue to be used > after either or both of these lifetimes have expired and there are > not any more eligible RDNSSes (with still valid lifetimes or learned > through DHCP or manual configuration) are available [6]-[8]. two issues: - the phrase after "and there are..." is not grammatically parsable. Maybe remove the second "are"? - I think the position of the references to [6]-[8] is rather confusing. I'd rather remove them, or move them just after "DHCP". JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp --Multipart_Fri_Jun_30_13:52:15_2006-1-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From baimaggiem@0451.com Fri Jun 30 13:50:42 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FwN8c-0005Wl-LS; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:50:42 -0400 Received: from adsl196-38-40-217-196.adsl196-10.iam.net.ma ([196.217.40.38] helo=user-3wm2ver2su) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FwN8O-0001Gm-27; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:50:42 -0400 Message-ID: <662161c806047692aiyo81k3b2dwr7ha2z3gko0to9z0@mail.0451.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 17:50:25 0000 From: "Josiah Madden" To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Your money, mosaic disease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Even if you have no erectin problems SOFT CIAzLIS would help you to make BETTER SE X MORE OFTEN! and to bring unimagnable plesure to her. 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