From rodara@averastlukes.org Sun Oct 01 13:14:42 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GU4tm-0006CF-FE for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Oct 2006 13:14:42 -0400 Received: from 20150168156.user.veloxzone.com.br ([201.50.168.156] helo=averastlukes.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GU4tk-0002QZ-Qu for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Oct 2006 13:14:42 -0400 Message-ID: <01c6e57c$2f9dbd50$0c00a8c0@vips11> Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 14:08:16 -0300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Ron Hagemeier" From: "Ron Hagemeier" To: Subject: PHfyeARMA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_11301_01C6E563.0A52F650" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_11301_01C6E563.0A52F650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good day, AMBttIEN VIAttGRA VALttIUM CIAttLIS Save 50 % with http://www.funhunjionsadecin.com =20 _____ =20 brighter than their herds. continent to search and about three weeks to do it in. I shook off the little chat until we are out of this place. A moment, please. ------=_NextPart_000_11301_01C6E563.0A52F650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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VIAttGRA

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Save 50 % with http://www.funhunjionsadecin.co= m
 

brighter than their herds.
continent to search and about three weeks to do it in. I shook off = the
little chat until we are out of this place. A moment, = please.

------=_NextPart_000_11301_01C6E563.0A52F650-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 02 05:51:44 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUKSe-0004eY-Ey for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 05:51:44 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUKSc-0004zm-0G for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 05:51:44 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9292tOw028331; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 02:02:55 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9292tgw028329; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 02:02:55 -0700 Received: from smtp.denic.de (smtp.denic.de [81.91.161.3]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9292suU028322 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 02:02:55 -0700 Received: from mail-int1.denic.de (mail-int1.denic.de [192.168.0.45]) by smtp.denic.de with esmtp id 1GUJhJ-0004Te-4O; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:02:49 +0200 Received: from localhost by mail-int1.denic.de with local id 1GUJhI-0001Y4-00; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:02:48 +0200 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:02:48 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: [dnsop] IETF67 meeting slot & agenda items Message-ID: <20061002090248.GE26160@denics7.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1963/Sun Oct 1 23:18:26 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Dear WG, for those not reading the IETF announcements list, the draft meeting agenda shows a Friday morning slot for dnsop: FRIDAY, November 10, 2006 0900-1130 Morning Session I INT monami6 Mobile Nodes and Multiple Interfaces in IPv6 WG IRTF rrg Routing RG OPS dnsop Domain Name System Operations WG RAI sip Session Initiation Protocol WG SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG ENUM will meet on Monday, dnsext on Tuesday afternoon. It's now also time to start working on the agenda, so please send any items and suggestions to Rob and me. Here are the I-D cut-off dates: October 16, Mon (13:00 UTC) - Cut-off for initial document (-00) submissions October 23, Mon (13:00 UTC) - Final submission cut-off -Peter . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From ouraniiloc@airbridge.net Mon Oct 02 09:19:11 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUNhP-0004cT-V8 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:19:11 -0400 Received: from adsl-204-228-192-81.adsl2.iam.net.ma ([81.192.228.204] helo=airbridge.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUNhO-0007fb-6c for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:19:11 -0400 Message-ID: <01c6e625$56c83e60$1601a8c0@POSTE12> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:19:07 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Viljem Oren" From: "Viljem Oren" To: Subject: Re: Hi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_9FDB_01C6E625.56CA8850" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_9FDB_01C6E625.56CA8850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, VlAxGRA ClAxLIS AMBxlEN VALxlUM Economize over 50% http://www.vadesunheriondes.com =20 _____ =20 In a few moments we will be landed inside the walls of the Pentagon Excuse if I interrupt, I said. A matter of priority. I clamped my privileged to play for you their special version of-`The Spaceship ------=_NextPart_000_9FDB_01C6E625.56CA8850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_9FDB_01C6E625.56CA8850-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 02 12:33:34 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUQjW-0002pU-87 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:33:34 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUQjU-0001kl-RT for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:33:34 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k92Ftxq6005529; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 08:55:59 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k92FtxwO005527; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 08:55:59 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k92FtwjS005522 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 08:55:58 -0700 Received: from piper.av8.net (piper.av8.net [130.105.11.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k92Ftfap027905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:55:45 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:55:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@piper.av8.net To: Mark Andrews cc: Mohsen Souissi , IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] RFC: "AS112 work basket" In-Reply-To: <200609292324.k8TNOlm9048426@drugs.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1973/Mon Oct 2 08:18:33 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > > The better approach is for the WG to recommend to the in-addr.arpa > > maintainer to put in delegations for 168.192.in-addr.arpa et al to be > > delegated to 127.0.0.1. These delegation records should have the maximum > > TTL. > > Because it also breaks responses to queries from nameservers that > are NOT using these addresses. How is that? I don't think it breaks anything: If nameservers (the users) _really_ don't use those addresses, then they won't be making those queries. But if they do make those queries (for which they aren't properly configured), then they should EXPECT to get an error. Indeed, they SHOULD get an error. By contrast, AS112 silently gives a "wrong" answer, with no "error". The answer is wrong because an answer is given to an unanswerable query. This is bad since it prevents the nameserver operator from learning about the misconfiguration. > > This approach has two beneficial effects that AS112 doesn't > > offer: > > > > 1) The nameserver operator with the misconfigured nameserver will begin > > getting "recursion to self" errors, which will prompt corrective action. > > > > 2) The delegation records will be cached on the local nameserver, > > reducing unnecessary traffic from the misconfigured nameserver. > > Because it only works when you get responses *back*. A > large amout of this traffic is non-repliable by the roots. The _delegations_ are reply-able. There are currently delegations to (e.g. 168.192.in-addr.arpa): 168.192.in-addr.arpa. 300 IN NS blackhole-2.iana.org. 168.192.in-addr.arpa. 300 IN NS blackhole-1.iana.org. This could be changed to give an address of 127.0.0.1. And these records are cached. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From oz4wh@macbilling.com Mon Oct 02 17:10:55 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUV3v-0002KR-Op for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:10:55 -0400 Received: from c-24-23-130-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([24.23.130.41] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUV3u-0001jn-D5 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:10:55 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c6e668$8b9dce00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Xavier Sanchez" To: Subject: Re: Hello Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:10:36 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6E668.8B9DCE00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6E668.8B9DCE00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable More than 200 software titles from world leading manufacturers =20 a.. 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6E668.8B9DCE00-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 02 18:19:46 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUW8Y-0003xu-6I for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:19:46 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUW8S-0004Jv-KI for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:19:46 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k92Lch6F009804; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:38:43 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k92Lch64009802; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:38:43 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k92LcgKJ009785 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:38:43 -0700 Received: from piper.av8.net (piper.av8.net [130.105.11.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k92LccZV028062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 17:38:41 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 17:38:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@piper.av8.net To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1977/Mon Oct 2 13:49:43 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f I strongly oppose this draft. I've read the draft. It still asserts that __somehow__ the amplification potential of authoritative servers is greatly reduced in comparison with recursive servers. There is no rational to support this assertion and facts have been given that repudiate it. (e.g. large DNS records such as SPF, In-addr; private recursors and authoritative servers can produce the same size records and same amplification). Indeed, private recursors and authoritative servers are prefereable for DDOS attacks. The claims that public recursive nameservers are somehow worse has been refuted: e.g. ==================== > An attack which uses EDNS0-capable public recursive nameservers has > the potential to achieve 60-to-80-fold amplification. An attack which uses EDNS0-capable private recursive nameservers also has the potential to achieve 60-to-80-fold amplification. An attack which uses EDNS0-capable authoritative nameservers also has the potential to achieve 60-to-80-fold amplification. ==================== Note that one cannot block internal private recursors, nor authoritative servers. So, if damage were the actual goal, one would not use public recursors, but the select servers that can't be blocked or mitigated. One would also sensibly select servers for which scanning in preparation of an attack would not reveal the attacker. One doesn't need an open recursor to mount the attack at all. Private recursors or authoritative are preferable, in fact, because they can't be blocked or mitigated, while in contrast, public recursors require searching/scanning or a distribution of a centralized database which reveals the perpetrator, and can be mitigated. Indeed, the issues raised in these four messages are still unresolved and unaddressed: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/msg03702.html http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/msg03703.html http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/msg03707.html http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/msg03708.html > Since the majority of documented examples of reflection attacks (if > not all of them) do involve open recursive nameservers, I note also the comparison with open relay attacks. For almost 10 years, open relay attacks have been exclusively performed by non-commercial attackers. No genuine bulk commercial emailer ever abused an open relay of ours in almost 10 years of open relay operations. I tracked solitications of abuse of open relays back to anti-spammers (see http://www.iadl.org/cn/cn-story.html, particularly Joshua and the Cleveland Gang). I found that ORBS.ORG and Osirusoft.org were instrumental in the abuse of open relays. (see www.iadl.org) Indeed, since the closure of these sites in 2003, open relay abuse has dropped to nearly nothing. There are still occasional abuse activities but nothing substantial. In retrospect, its clear that the abusers of open relays were mis-guided anti-spammers trying to 'prove' the harms of open relays. I think that open-recursor attacks are performed by a similarly misguided group, because one can more easily find authoritative servers and private recursors to mount such an attack, and then there is no mitigation. These types of DNS servers are easier to find than open recursors, yet for some reason, the "abusers" choose open recursors. That fact suggests an agenda similar to the open relay abusers: Actual harm isn't the goal, rather attemption to prove the possibility of a specific kind of harm is the goal. This draft similarly doesn't address a real problem, but a contrived problem, for which there is no actual harm but for the actions of those trying to 'prove' the harm. Therefore, I don't think this draft should be advanced. --Dean On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Preventing Use of Recursive Nameservers in Reflector Attacks > Author(s) : J. Damas, F. Neves > Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2006-9-19 > > This document describes the use of default configured recursive > nameservers as reflectors on DOS attacks. Recommended configuration > as measures to mitigate the attack are given. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 02 18:47:02 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUWYw-0001Rl-CI for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:47:02 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUWYs-0000s3-Vg for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:47:02 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k92M9A42010917; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 15:09:10 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k92M9Anq010915; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 15:09:10 -0700 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k92M99vT010910 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 15:09:10 -0700 Received: from yxu1a16.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.16]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1GUVy8-0007sA-W7; Mon, 02 Oct 2006 22:09:01 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <9A4DBEBE-F010-4BEF-BCF6-4A5968484FAF@ca.afilias.info> Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 18:08:55 -0400 To: Dean Anderson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1977/Mon Oct 2 13:49:43 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 On 2-Oct-2006, at 17:38, Dean Anderson wrote: > I've read the draft. It still asserts that __somehow__ the > amplification potential of authoritative servers is greatly reduced in > comparison with recursive servers. The opportunity to do evil is greatly reduced if attackers are forced to exploit either authority servers or private recursive servers. If authority servers are used, finding a large number of authority servers which contain records that provide the required amplification is harder than finding a large number of open recursive servers. Using such servers will also involve sending a different query to each server in order to exploit the particular (QNAME, QTYPE) tuple which provides the required amplification, which means a single botnet with a single set of marching orders can't be used to originate the query traffic, thus increasing the logistical difficulty in launching the attack. If private recursive servers are used then in order to gain amplification comparable with the attacks which exploit open servers the target must be within the corresponding private domain of the recursive server. Since it's rare for more than a small handful of private recursive servers to serve a single private subset of the Internet, this reduces the potential number of sources of attack traffic to a number which can probably be dealt with (and which are probably also operated by the same set of technicians). The opportunity to launch a reflection attack of the type described in the draft is greatly reduced if no open recursive nameservers are available. If you can describe other mechanisms by which an equivalent attack could be launched with similar ease to those that have been observed to exploit open recursive nameservers, then you might have a point worthy of consideration in this draft. However, the objection you voiced (which I am replying to) appears to be based on an inadequate understanding of the attacks in question. I hope this clarification is useful. Joe . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 03 00:20:08 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUblI-0008JM-9m for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:20:08 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUblC-0008Ff-PQ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:20:08 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k933Ylgx022228; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 20:34:47 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k933Ylg0022226; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 20:34:47 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k933YkMA022221 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2006 20:34:46 -0700 Received: from piper.av8.net (piper.av8.net [130.105.11.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k933Yd14028258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 2 Oct 2006 23:34:45 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 23:34:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@piper.av8.net To: Joe Abley cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt In-Reply-To: <9A4DBEBE-F010-4BEF-BCF6-4A5968484FAF@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1981/Mon Oct 2 18:51:46 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5d7a7e767f20255fce80fa0b77fb2433 There is nothing in Joe's assertions that wasn't refuted in May. So, at the risk of repeating the discussion from May, here is a version-02 specific version: On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > On 2-Oct-2006, at 17:38, Dean Anderson wrote: > > > I've read the draft. It still asserts that __somehow__ the > > amplification potential of authoritative servers is greatly reduced in > > comparison with recursive servers. > > The opportunity to do evil is greatly reduced if attackers are forced > to exploit either authority servers or private recursive servers. > > If authority servers are used, finding a large number of authority > servers which contain records that provide the required amplification > is harder than finding a large number of open recursive servers. I think not. Finding authority servers for large in-addr responses is just a walk of the in-addr.arpa. One can get forward zones from a variety of places to find large SPF, DNSSEC or TXT records. Furthermore, the search for such records is completely innocent, while the search for open recursors is suspicious. [one can put up traps for the latter search] Private internal recursors are found by a call to the ISP support line. Which ISP to call depend only on the target, and are easily found through routeviews and whois and web pages. This question will be happily answered by first level support. It may even be available on the ISP web site. By contrast, to find open recursors, you usually need to walk all of IP, though you could still walk in-addr and the forward zones as before, but searching for open recursors will leave log entries that tend to identify the searcher. By contrast, querying in-addr records or SPF records from authority servers is entirely innocent. Open recursors that aren't also authority servers are very difficult to find. One needs to walk all of IP to see if port 53 responds. That kind of search will be noticed by somebody. Ask the open relay scanners. > Using such servers will also involve sending a different query to each > server in order to exploit the particular (QNAME, QTYPE) tuple which > provides the required amplification, which means a single botnet with > a single set of marching orders can't be used to originate the query > traffic, thus increasing the logistical difficulty in launching the > attack. As previously described in May, a botnet can easily handle the marching orders necessary. The amplification is dependent only on the number of queries sent. A list of 25, 100, 200, 25000,+++ tuples is easily within the payload of a modern botnet. One might not even need very many tuples. A single, high bandwidth server might be sufficient. Try blocking all of say, MSN's nameservers or the nameservers of some other top bandwidth domain. [BTW, DNS Anycast makes this attack worse, too, but I already previously pointed that out in May. I see this too, was ignored, in draft 02.] > If private recursive servers are used then in order to gain > amplification comparable with the attacks which exploit open servers > the target must be within the corresponding private domain of the > recursive server. Since it's rare for more than a small handful of > private recursive servers to serve a single private subset of the > Internet, this reduces the potential number of sources of attack > traffic to a number which can probably be dealt with (and which are > probably also operated by the same set of technicians). Every ISP has 'private' recusors. Those recursors are more "deadly" to that ISPs customers for two reasons: The customer can't easily block the traffic, and that server has more bandwidth to the customer than, say, some open recursor half way around the world. > The opportunity to launch a reflection attack of the type described in > the draft is greatly reduced if no open recursive nameservers are > available. This is mantra. Repeating it does not make it true. I suppose, as was the case with the open relay experience, the mantra will grow more insistent, but no more true. As Gauss said, 'fear the howls of the boeotians.' The opportunity to launch a reflection attack is the same for all types. Every server that has a large record offers an opportunity for reflection attack. The mitigation is close to zero for authority servers and private recurors. The game-theory choice for the bad guy is easy: pick the target ISP private recursor or search the authority servers for large records. Choosing ordinary open recursors is a distant third because of the added risk of discovery and the mitigation options at the target. And finally, a public or private recursor needs a large record to start the attack. That record is best obtained from a legitimate authority record. But that authority server, once found, can be directly used for the attack if it has sufficient bandwidth. That authority server won't be able to stop the attack except by removing the legitimately large record, or by blocking incoming DNS queries. Neither option is going to be palatable for, say MSN or Some Large Domain(SLD). Probably, they won't do it if the record is important to them. Strangely, the existing attacks that I know of from the Nanog thread, started by using a cracked server to create an 8Kb TXT record for the attack. This crack is the hardest part of the attack, and it leaves a huge forensic trail, and is completely unnecessary to conduct the attack. The attackers in that case were very stupid, and hadn't really thought through the attack. Almost exactly the same analytical behavior of another group of miscreants. One wonders if it could be the same group. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 03 06:50:20 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUhqu-0003TZ-1J for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 06:50:20 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUhql-0007Ya-Jt for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 06:50:20 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k939wWSC032410; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 02:58:32 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k939wW2D032408; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 02:58:32 -0700 Received: from mail.verisignlabs.com (cliffie.verisignlabs.com [65.201.175.9]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k939wVh5032403 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 02:58:31 -0700 Received: from zephyr.verisignlabs.com ([::ffff:193.0.9.69]) (AUTH: PLAIN matt, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-SHA) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 05:58:29 -0400 id 002D0115.45223446.000004F1 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 05:58:28 -0400 From: Matt Larson To: Dean Anderson Cc: Joe Abley , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt Message-ID: <20061003095827.GE720@zephyr.verisignlabs.com> References: <9A4DBEBE-F010-4BEF-BCF6-4A5968484FAF@ca.afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1983/Mon Oct 2 23:11:55 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 On Mon, 02 Oct 2006, Dean Anderson wrote: > Finding authority servers for large in-addr responses is > just a walk of the in-addr.arpa. One can get forward zones from a > variety of places to find large SPF, DNSSEC or TXT records. > Furthermore, the search for such records is completely innocent, while > the search for open recursors is suspicious. [one can put up traps for > the latter search] That is all true. However, I am extremely dubious that today--right now--one could mount a reflector attack using only authoritative servers that would equal the magnitude of the attacks seen at the beginning of this year that used open recursive servers. To mount an attack equivalent to those already seen, one would need to find tens of thousands of authoritative servers able to produce a 4K response. Every byte in the response size is significant, given the large number of reflectors involved. The bar has already been set at 4Kb, so one needs to find at least ~34,500 authoritative servers with responses at least that large to equal this year's earlier attacks. (The problem is actually worse, because the number of open recursive name servers has been estimated at around half a million by multiple sources, so that's the current theoretical worst case, an even harder number to reach using authoritative servers.) Can you point us to even one 4Kb response from an authoritative server? > Open recursors that aren't also authority servers are very difficult to > find. One needs to walk all of IP to see if port 53 responds. That kind > of search will be noticed by somebody. Ask the open relay scanners. I highly doubt that most networks are sufficiently instrumented and monitored to detect even a network scan moving sequentially through the address space. If one went to the trouble to scan address space in a random order, such a scan would be even harder to detect. > Strangely, the existing attacks that I know of from the Nanog thread, > started by using a cracked server to create an 8Kb TXT record for the > attack. This crack is the hardest part of the attack, and it leaves a > huge forensic trail, and is completely unnecessary to conduct the > attack. The attackers in that case were very stupid, and hadn't really > thought through the attack. Almost exactly the same analytical behavior > of another group of miscreants. One wonders if it could be the same > group. The attack actually used a 4Kb TXT record and, contrary to your opinion, the attack was quite sophisticated and showed attackers with tight C&C who adapted in real time. More information is available in a presentation from VeriSign given at NANOG 37 in San Jose; please see http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0606/scalzo.html. Matt . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 03 09:05:14 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUjxS-0005lp-Fu for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:05:14 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUjxN-0000PL-Js for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:05:14 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93CLYKO003514; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 05:21:34 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k93CLYiI003512; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 05:21:34 -0700 Received: from central.switch.ch (central.switch.ch [130.59.11.11]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93CLW8J003501 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 05:21:33 -0700 Received: from hadron ([130.59.4.84] helo=hadron.switch.ch) by central.switch.ch with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 1GUjH3-0005u2-00; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 14:21:25 +0200 Received: from hadron.switch.ch.switch.ch (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by hadron.switch.ch (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93CLN4l021179; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 14:21:24 +0200 (CEST) From: Alexander Gall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17698.21955.914138.203052@hadron.switch.ch> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 14:21:23 +0200 To: Matt Larson Cc: Dean Anderson , Joe Abley , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt In-Reply-To: <20061003095827.GE720@zephyr.verisignlabs.com> References: <9A4DBEBE-F010-4BEF-BCF6-4A5968484FAF@ca.afilias.info> <20061003095827.GE720@zephyr.verisignlabs.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.18 under Emacs 21.3.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1984/Tue Oct 3 03:01:28 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 05:58:28 -0400, Matt Larson said: > Can you point us to even one 4Kb response from an authoritative > server? This one is close: ; <<>> DiG 9.4.0b1 <<>> @192.134.0.49 195.in-addr.arpa. any +dnssec ; (1 server found) ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 1806 ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 19, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 17 ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags: do; udp: 4096 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;195.in-addr.arpa. IN ANY ;; ANSWER SECTION: 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN SOA ns-pri.ripe.net. ops.ripe.net. 2006100353 43200 7200 1209600 7200 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN RRSIG SOA 5 3 172800 20061102102216 20061003102216 26612 195.in-addr.arpa. V0esxFs3uzdS0I+dyfe1ncIGak7MMEY0hLrHcTO7fqhxauIklJkhTnqG 0/VF4qiWEw1SiGWjp76dFIYYbnmrt1KYUY5vixyLV4XD34jCsjze1b/K +++i5Hm1fTjuaqFqTNN207s3rhngE7kxlJsw3k2x1hi6JsW95XPcwxoa 0aDFAiVKfKNAJe1sMIzyDMyebzl3rrP9 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS tinnie.arin.net. 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS ns3.nic.fr. 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS sec1.apnic.net. 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS sec3.apnic.net. 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS sunic.sunet.se. 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS ns-ext.isc.org. 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS ns-pri.ripe.net. 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN RRSIG NS 5 3 172800 20061102102216 20061003102216 26612 195.in-addr.arpa. OSO/7t1Dj4DMYy8nnwECk9rHmGUPeqkDHjgZXDC27ksfMagLqHDl+ZTJ cKeSyq1M1P632kJ2jtER3Dauk/mGtYmVjwXZ5dGfftHKnh6wuFxo95BU pjMZEl6+KojakdZILOLNrYkm0QVPzGsbpa9wq9v8lPFwIAy7xx2eMKtH caPP0YerMO28HiFWoTbU4dBTCdcgklF+ 195.in-addr.arpa. 7200 IN NSEC 10.0.195.in-addr.arpa. NS SOA RRSIG NSEC DNSKEY 195.in-addr.arpa. 7200 IN RRSIG NSEC 5 3 7200 20061102102216 20061003102216 26612 195.in-addr.arpa. BtKF1tVnQaTtZMbdE/y54vMuutxgm8QXsM9hbzyN40sZM7pAIIXdE+sM o2stuznuWxTA2ZdQfZ5ybFHNrbKuzcqExuQ8cW+hVc3hiZrQLVM8yYlD paxvbPx2wWwqMdX1f1o8Zr4LkKMQ3UCzQ0vAkyi1aQmiz4ArK9eKWoOv vO/hBF6Uv9HPlc3g6B6HtzLWIUJsVBP9 195.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN DNSKEY 257 3 5 AwEAAaMN4kOrGaiHJBikvcf+mhPxzprL85Q40VA0hbRca8FDDn6Xlkuj 95Nizy2vMrOy1MjIjo7a+GACGp6C/Rdj6nDimsRrUBr/G/dq+zBgg8qv RXWJZhx+zNCgkfv9gs1BeRlPnjXr1K/x5viTzQRDK3SYfHiCMVNxuYN+ T7kniDLxQRUI/ASF3YxqNQ+Oo+T5L6nYtO7uLeAUdxzToRdIHaeyiSnq 52boA/3Yg6X8Kbo1uAUpeU4QDD7bOwq+obmaToLUm/FvNUKx0l9U2P2I tcsqRCHQut/RxK2pj8GGRDCDco1J5UAi7hiwP1eEWmbigbPnDQg++QDj egV39vTJQ2c= 195.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN DNSKEY 256 3 5 AQO/m4C8ktcSkEFAyhxNIPTliVqsjepVqhXcK/IpSXzZHDFYTHfpi91M zKnyQ7WxJDtPYecEaxcObGXeY6BiU+/Kcm3g2QwxszRBDd338EoInxun ku25MN4T+P76PquQtrhnnQn6jOceP5bbocSbkKldiPkxc2RI4Vru22l5 KEQqCYpO/lb6QHO2p8iIS87vmbknP6eLYls= 195.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN DNSKEY 256 3 5 AwEAAfPuhijNQG3Pbk2FGe6lGzGsBZR3qDiEWruyanast2JCEaC10Ox+ Hi4tcVR7oYMpAwdtQClpx/F/cy8W/U9HN60a+qh+WVj+gWlFeDYbpIW1 7qg3tg2lltQpDi2Md2O0c4K1YkdX1U1O+doLCt+gRqBfc5O1Tx0X8snN mE0qdk95kWOkcj+LZnFEmAtHZrweqIT4lhpPnQ== 195.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN DNSKEY 257 3 5 AQOyc738W3Vh1b23oPnoQZCOA3OVmm3FUSLckfaG0azm8ffu2igo2GnN NnwHLlMhLCPWJDCcVfUkXlwNgpk9OQQnndTvk5QP7iEhU/ynzAO1o4SK ctWITnRIMO8vOethiIBkpArrLpvSsYqIKpUdIT9Qb/tCyBHtwUCf89E2 19R0EbiF3bLacN5czb3RaxV6Mu4/Hl/q3R9ggjZ8HyakYz7zceB20+YO T32eKS1Gc59cIFRcLLqGjV6+vM2CfDHk5EnicZ3zrWjeGFAQUV6JhTGq HmNFrRBVA+6PoSYUUP2vEsFgN6ESZGKF03ySz8hGMJ+8v7ZnelLlHhC1 H3bPwDVr 195.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN RRSIG DNSKEY 5 3 3600 20061102102216 20061003102216 6810 195.in-addr.arpa. DemjAyV2kU6ZXKO9o0sxPZ4W96ST7oUEN740/7B7L7XLRVP3dOcmlB+f QqI3fAvBJ377KYLtZosVwsenT+OZN/TBqVLD1Hp1yFiaZ8X4vL4Z7RJq AzXknGAcalhM+HlMuNS2j8IojuMJCeBCRwoyKo09o2WCcxIg2fy8bQqu 98YdBFtB+TH8Cv7BlRQBtpt/YZM0hCeEggNOuA6Aum6nUoruI6Bk9+FI UJDFCvuJeT9jsXWFevBg995n/BrWGFDTwOjkDbCb2RoM8aFiyX5uaIfx Q4xD009YuOoJ3Rmx+rIcQbGw3UIz8Snvwn1iQX+Dz7TyUhdgq9X/cGCf uxkBQg== 195.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN RRSIG DNSKEY 5 3 3600 20061102102216 20061003102216 22747 195.in-addr.arpa. HYVm7MCpHheT67rXjDHS8yTgaxIjtAS1w98ywXhc5IZcIA21+qOmLeua RMvKCtFjxMxi64TXuVzohXCR9ZARUmYy7f4HKUxp6sWpSFj3Q036Xb+2 Jy8MxKLm2dOn/vXw1IYIzSVXyjKsWQrftfm7ydDv/Ms9dPWAQ7k92sT5 FoZB6LMwMheLJwilq61q0GT2gi2Mq927gnt4ffdx3ZXzKk7Ba/fbTRwT KU0a+GzjQd4RvyqVSP2grDR8LW+upawcp02YfvMvM1rbqg2OJmzO7XBJ i3vk84vchPFHxfnDLBB4/Ssj72ZA9FGkCvT/x8pYntolmiD3LApYQWRS Dgu7cA== 195.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN RRSIG DNSKEY 5 3 3600 20061102102216 20061003102216 26612 195.in-addr.arpa. OJfF6LOoQaMx0muoEeyDUkDTSTkHLyMinuSFeVdp+ITA9Ig5Uu9JNVML dxKBN2BgQr66ThS1eCeohEllswtFJaDmHBHHqZ5IhkHOyPqm7F4ji7xi TH7RhMN4DO5TFMq1hcZkyIeFueNx4cNPN7Xc1ZaRKNqME6tuhY/gF8pX mWrjZsifNE2KUOAEC13DCwlF+xk66nGs ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: ns3.nic.fr. 172800 IN A 192.134.0.49 ns3.nic.fr. 172800 IN AAAA 2001:660:3006:1::1:1 sec1.apnic.net. 5010 IN A 202.12.29.59 sec3.apnic.net. 1494 IN A 202.12.28.140 sunic.sunet.se. 151449 IN A 192.36.125.2 sunic.sunet.se. 65113 IN AAAA 2001:6b0:7::2 ns-ext.isc.org. 76900 IN A 204.152.184.64 ns-ext.isc.org. 170531 IN AAAA 2001:4f8:0:2::13 ns-pri.ripe.net. 172800 IN A 193.0.0.195 ns-pri.ripe.net. 172800 IN AAAA 2001:610:240:0:53::3 tinnie.arin.net. 8661 IN A 199.43.0.195 tinnie.arin.net. 1314 IN AAAA 2001:440:2000:1::22 195.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN DNSKEY 256 3 5 AwEAAfPuhijNQG3Pbk2FGe6lGzGsBZR3qDiEWruyanast2JCEaC10Ox+ Hi4tcVR7oYMpAwdtQClpx/F/cy8W/U9HN60a+qh+WVj+gWlFeDYbpIW1 7qg3tg2lltQpDi2Md2O0c4K1YkdX1U1O+doLCt+gRqBfc5O1Tx0X8snN mE0qdk95kWOkcj+LZnFEmAtHZrweqIT4lhpPnQ== 195.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN DNSKEY 257 3 5 AQOyc738W3Vh1b23oPnoQZCOA3OVmm3FUSLckfaG0azm8ffu2igo2GnN NnwHLlMhLCPWJDCcVfUkXlwNgpk9OQQnndTvk5QP7iEhU/ynzAO1o4SK ctWITnRIMO8vOethiIBkpArrLpvSsYqIKpUdIT9Qb/tCyBHtwUCf89E2 19R0EbiF3bLacN5czb3RaxV6Mu4/Hl/q3R9ggjZ8HyakYz7zceB20+YO T32eKS1Gc59cIFRcLLqGjV6+vM2CfDHk5EnicZ3zrWjeGFAQUV6JhTGq HmNFrRBVA+6PoSYUUP2vEsFgN6ESZGKF03ySz8hGMJ+8v7ZnelLlHhC1 H3bPwDVr 195.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN DNSKEY 257 3 5 AwEAAaMN4kOrGaiHJBikvcf+mhPxzprL85Q40VA0hbRca8FDDn6Xlkuj 95Nizy2vMrOy1MjIjo7a+GACGp6C/Rdj6nDimsRrUBr/G/dq+zBgg8qv RXWJZhx+zNCgkfv9gs1BeRlPnjXr1K/x5viTzQRDK3SYfHiCMVNxuYN+ T7kniDLxQRUI/ASF3YxqNQ+Oo+T5L6nYtO7uLeAUdxzToRdIHaeyiSnq 52boA/3Yg6X8Kbo1uAUpeU4QDD7bOwq+obmaToLUm/FvNUKx0l9U2P2I tcsqRCHQut/RxK2pj8GGRDCDco1J5UAi7hiwP1eEWmbigbPnDQg++QDj egV39vTJQ2c= 195.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN DNSKEY 256 3 5 AQO/m4C8ktcSkEFAyhxNIPTliVqsjepVqhXcK/IpSXzZHDFYTHfpi91M zKnyQ7WxJDtPYecEaxcObGXeY6BiU+/Kcm3g2QwxszRBDd338EoInxun ku25MN4T+P76PquQtrhnnQn6jOceP5bbocSbkKldiPkxc2RI4Vru22l5 KEQqCYpO/lb6QHO2p8iIS87vmbknP6eLYls= ;; Query time: 32 msec ;; SERVER: 192.134.0.49#53(192.134.0.49) ;; WHEN: Tue Oct 3 14:15:27 2006 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 3736 -- Alex . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 03 09:35:55 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUkR9-0000L8-5a for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:35:55 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUkR6-0004lJ-Ne for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:35:55 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93ChvbU003926; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 05:43:57 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k93ChvDu003924; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 05:43:57 -0700 Received: from mx.isc.org (mx.isc.org [204.152.184.167]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93Chv0L003919 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 05:43:57 -0700 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F9C11401F for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 12:43:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3557FE6066 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 12:43:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k930BkCG052449 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 10:11:46 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200610030011.k930BkCG052449@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: IETF DNSOP WG From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [dnsop] RFC: "AS112 work basket" In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:55:41 -0400." Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 10:11:46 +1000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1984/Tue Oct 3 03:01:28 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 > On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > > > > The better approach is for the WG to recommend to the in-addr.arpa > > > maintainer to put in delegations for 168.192.in-addr.arpa et al to be > > > delegated to 127.0.0.1. These delegation records should have the maximum > > > TTL. > > > > Because it also breaks responses to queries from nameservers that > > are NOT using these addresses. > > How is that? I don't think it breaks anything: If nameservers (the > users) _really_ don't use those addresses, then they won't be making > those queries. I can think of a number of ways a lookup for the reverse of a RFC 1918 address could be made when you are not using RFC 1918 addresses. > But if they do make those queries (for which they aren't > properly configured), then they should EXPECT to get an error. Indeed, > they SHOULD get an error. They do get a error: Name Error. > By contrast, AS112 silently gives a "wrong" answer, with no "error". The > answer is wrong because an answer is given to an unanswerable query. > This is bad since it prevents the nameserver operator from learning > about the misconfiguration. RFC 1918 addresses are ambigious, not "not answerable". The correct answer is location sensitive. If you are on the Internet and not using RFC 1918 addresses then the correct answer is Name Error. If your site is using RFC 1918 addresses and you havn't configured a PTR then the correct answer still is Name Error. This is no different that if there wasn't a PTR record for the public IP address I'm currently using. > > > This approach has two beneficial effects that AS112 doesn't > > > offer: > > > > > > 1) The nameserver operator with the misconfigured nameserver will begin > > > getting "recursion to self" errors, which will prompt corrective action. > > > > > > 2) The delegation records will be cached on the local nameserver, > > > reducing unnecessary traffic from the misconfigured nameserver. > > > > Because it only works when you get responses *back*. A > > large amout of this traffic is non-repliable by the roots. > > The _delegations_ are reply-able. There are currently delegations to > (e.g. 168.192.in-addr.arpa): > > 168.192.in-addr.arpa. 300 IN NS blackhole-2.iana.org. > 168.192.in-addr.arpa. 300 IN NS blackhole-1.iana.org. > > This could be changed to give an address of 127.0.0.1. And these > records are cached. And you totally missed my point. Fix the default configuration in nameservers using RFC 1918 address and the queries don't leak out. They don't go to the roots regardless of whether the addresses are translated or not. The intent is to stop the queries leaking. > --Dean > -- ISC Training! October 16-20, 2006, in the San Francisco Bay Area, covering topics from DNS to DHCP. Email training@isc.org. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 03 10:24:18 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUlBy-0008AT-UQ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 10:24:18 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUlBt-0006YM-Aw for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 10:24:18 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93DdTxe005017; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 06:39:29 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k93DdTmG005015; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 06:39:29 -0700 Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [213.154.224.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93DdSD7005010 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 06:39:28 -0700 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::53]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k93DX6g6042042; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:33:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olaf@NLnetLabs.nl) In-Reply-To: <17698.21955.914138.203052@hadron.switch.ch> References: <9A4DBEBE-F010-4BEF-BCF6-4A5968484FAF@ca.afilias.info> <20061003095827.GE720@zephyr.verisignlabs.com> <17698.21955.914138.203052@hadron.switch.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-11--960922568" Message-Id: <10F7827E-CB7C-47F9-94FE-00EB7D1397EF@NLnetLabs.nl> Cc: Matt Larson , Dean Anderson , Joe Abley , Alexander Gall Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:33:07 +0200 To: IETF DNSOP WG X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.2 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on open.nlnetlabs.nl X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1984/Tue Oct 3 03:01:28 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-11--960922568 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On 3Oct 2006, at 2:21 PM, Alexander Gall wrote: > On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 05:58:28 -0400, Matt Larson > said: > >> Can you point us to even one 4Kb response from an authoritative >> server? > > This one is close: > > ; <<>> DiG 9.4.0b1 <<>> @192.134.0.49 195.in-addr.arpa. any +dnssec > ; (1 server found) > ;; global options: printcmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 1806 > ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 19, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 17 > ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available > > ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > ; EDNS: version: 0, flags: do; udp: 4096 > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS tinnie.arin.net. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS ns3.nic.fr. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS sec1.apnic.net. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS sec3.apnic.net. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS sunic.sunet.se. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS ns-ext.isc.org. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS ns-pri.ripe.net. Can you now point to the remaining 34,493 other authoritative servers needed to launch the attack of the magnitude that Matt was referring to. (There are reverse-address-space entries that have an insane number of PTR RRs for virtual servers, you may find a fair number of those servers too) On the topic: I support the document with the understanding that this is not a magic bullet. IMHO the document does not claim that. I am not saying that Dean is incorrect. It is possible to use authoritative servers to launch attacks. Given sufficient amplification --which will be easier with DNSSEC deployed--, given sufficient authoritative servers, given sufficient bots those attacks can (shall?) be damaging. As Matt just 'doubted', the problem caused by open recursive servers is of another order of magnitude than all the other attacks (currently). For me the trade-off between patching this problem and having open-recursive servers available for troubleshooting is in the advantage of closing the open-recursive servers. Obviously proper source origination of UDP is the answer. But even in the case of universal BCP38 deployment a big botnet with an appropriate control channel might be bursting away queries with valid source addresses to one specific host might generate significant problems. I don't like that we are at the point where this document is needed, but I do consent. --Olaf ----------------------------------------------------------- Olaf M. Kolkman NLnet Labs http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ --Apple-Mail-11--960922568 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: This message is locally signed. iD8DBQFFImaTtN/ca3YJIocRAnroAJ9p+S18+SiB7iwDFKBHcSsdsbIqEQCfaRKD W2Ooy/WXwkYmrWNw/PYDzVE= =aDPK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-11--960922568-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 03 11:28:59 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUmCZ-00020P-Qs for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 11:28:59 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUmCY-0007Xg-FH for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 11:28:59 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93EgZWj006775; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 07:42:35 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k93EgZAs006773; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 07:42:35 -0700 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93EgYG4006768 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 07:42:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D654B26C2D4; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:42:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1984/Tue Oct 3 03:01:28 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C86826C24B; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:42:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD5358ED14; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:42:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:42:28 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: "Olaf M. Kolkman" Cc: IETF DNSOP WG , Matt Larson , Dean Anderson , Joe Abley , Alexander Gall Subject: [dnsop] Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt Message-ID: <20061003144228.GA18270@nic.fr> References: <9A4DBEBE-F010-4BEF-BCF6-4A5968484FAF@ca.afilias.info> <20061003095827.GE720@zephyr.verisignlabs.com> <17698.21955.914138.203052@hadron.switch.ch> <10F7827E-CB7C-47F9-94FE-00EB7D1397EF@NLnetLabs.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <10F7827E-CB7C-47F9-94FE-00EB7D1397EF@NLnetLabs.nl> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux testing/unstable X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.17-2-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 03:33:07PM +0200, Olaf M. Kolkman wrote a message of 101 lines which said: > Can you now point to the remaining 34,493 other authoritative > servers needed to launch the attack of the magnitude that Matt was > referring to. There is no name server like our 192.134.0.49 :-) . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 03 12:35:33 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUnEz-0003QC-1P for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:35:33 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUnEu-00063f-KF for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:35:33 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93FkkEg009113; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 08:46:46 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k93FkkJv009111; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 08:46:46 -0700 Received: from atlas.centergate.com (atlas.centergate.com [204.74.78.17]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93FkjmE009106 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 08:46:46 -0700 Received: from john-kristoffs-computer.local (atlas.centergate.com [127.0.0.1]) by atlas.centergate.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k93Fkikh031783 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 08:46:45 -0700 Message-Id: <200610031546.k93Fkikh031783@atlas.centergate.com> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 10:46:41 -0500 From: John Kristoff To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt In-Reply-To: References: <9A4DBEBE-F010-4BEF-BCF6-4A5968484FAF@ca.afilias.info> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.2 (GTK+ 2.8.12; i386-apple-darwin8.5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1985/Tue Oct 3 08:09:59 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 23:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Dean Anderson wrote: > Open recursors that aren't also authority servers are very difficult > to find. One needs to walk all of IP to see if port 53 responds. Scanning address space for this sort of thing isn't too terribly difficult and we know of at least one person who publicly claimed to have done it for the entire public Internet address space: Communications of the ACM, June 2006 Explorations in Namespace: White-Hat Hacking Across the Domain Name System Dan Kaminsky If one has access to an authoritative server, watching what queries it is one way to build a list of potential open recursors. You have to probe them to verify that they are in fact open and you may not be able to tell if they are authoritative for anything however. Another way, for those unfortunate souls who have the problem, is to collect the list of source addresses used in a reflection attack that were already found by someone else. It would be interesting to know, if there were a way to determine, what percentage of recursors are also authoritative for something. Going the other way is pretty easy and the numbers have been shown elsewhere. > That kind of search will be noticed by somebody. Ask the open relay > scanners. Evidence suggests otherwise. Did you notice any probes a few months ago to: 130.105.19.3 130.105.11.3 198.3.136.10 I've done some extensively probing (in the millions) for open recursors to large sets of addresses (sound found using the example methods above) and I've gotten a single email from a remote admin wondering what was going on. In fact, their inquiry was only for a corner case fingerprint attempt. They didn't realize they were even running an open recursor and that it had been used in a reflective amplification attack. Furthermore, I had later found out this open recursor was not authoriative for anything, at least not facing the public Internet. While it is possible that there were bots internal to that network using it for the attack, it seems very unlikely. Accepting that, one can easily surmise how that open recursor was found by the attacker. FYI... Duane Wessels gave a nice, concise talk about his work in finding open resolvers and I highly recommend reviewing the slides if you haven't seen them yet. John . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From poktpcy@tke.tsannkuen.com Tue Oct 03 16:32:11 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUqvz-0008Lg-7M for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 16:32:11 -0400 Received: from 68-113-12-205.dhcp.wnch.wa.charter.com ([68.113.12.205]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUqvp-00077i-DM for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 16:32:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01c6e72a$e7fb3300$cd0c7144@GeorgeZ> From: "GIFT" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: Since foreign Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 13:31:29 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6E6F0.3B9C5B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d437399464e10b52abe9a34ed7e712d0 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6E6F0.3B9C5B00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6E6F0.3B9C5B00" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6E6F0.3B9C5B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable csAudio PhotoCell PC GardenBed LivingPet Personal Trust Mike Holland Joel Mowbray Gary Gensler GIFT Halloween Kidsand GrownUps Teens Girl seem noticed too. 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with ESMTP id k93DdTxe005017; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 06:39:29 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k93DdTmG005015; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 06:39:29 -0700 Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [213.154.224.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k93DdSD7005010 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 06:39:28 -0700 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::53]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k93DX6g6042042; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:33:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olaf@NLnetLabs.nl) In-Reply-To: <17698.21955.914138.203052@hadron.switch.ch> References: <9A4DBEBE-F010-4BEF-BCF6-4A5968484FAF@ca.afilias.info> <20061003095827.GE720@zephyr.verisignlabs.com> <17698.21955.914138.203052@hadron.switch.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-11--960922568" Message-Id: <10F7827E-CB7C-47F9-94FE-00EB7D1397EF@NLnetLabs.nl> Cc: Matt Larson , Dean Anderson , Joe Abley , Alexander Gall Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:33:07 +0200 To: IETF DNSOP WG X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.2 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on open.nlnetlabs.nl X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1991/Tue Oct 3 13:52:50 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1984/Tue Oct 3 03:01:28 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2006 17:39:09.0181 (UTC) FILETIME=[D4C5FAD0:01C6E712] Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-11--960922568 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On 3Oct 2006, at 2:21 PM, Alexander Gall wrote: > On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 05:58:28 -0400, Matt Larson > said: > >> Can you point us to even one 4Kb response from an authoritative >> server? > > This one is close: > > ; <<>> DiG 9.4.0b1 <<>> @192.134.0.49 195.in-addr.arpa. any +dnssec > ; (1 server found) > ;; global options: printcmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 1806 > ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 19, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 17 > ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available > > ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > ; EDNS: version: 0, flags: do; udp: 4096 > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS tinnie.arin.net. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS ns3.nic.fr. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS sec1.apnic.net. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS sec3.apnic.net. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS sunic.sunet.se. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS ns-ext.isc.org. > 195.in-addr.arpa. 172800 IN NS ns-pri.ripe.net. Can you now point to the remaining 34,493 other authoritative servers needed to launch the attack of the magnitude that Matt was referring to. (There are reverse-address-space entries that have an insane number of PTR RRs for virtual servers, you may find a fair number of those servers too) On the topic: I support the document with the understanding that this is not a magic bullet. IMHO the document does not claim that. I am not saying that Dean is incorrect. It is possible to use authoritative servers to launch attacks. Given sufficient amplification --which will be easier with DNSSEC deployed--, given sufficient authoritative servers, given sufficient bots those attacks can (shall?) be damaging. As Matt just 'doubted', the problem caused by open recursive servers is of another order of magnitude than all the other attacks (currently). For me the trade-off between patching this problem and having open-recursive servers available for troubleshooting is in the advantage of closing the open-recursive servers. Obviously proper source origination of UDP is the answer. But even in the case of universal BCP38 deployment a big botnet with an appropriate control channel might be bursting away queries with valid source addresses to one specific host might generate significant problems. I don't like that we are at the point where this document is needed, but I do consent. --Olaf ----------------------------------------------------------- Olaf M. Kolkman NLnet Labs http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ --Apple-Mail-11--960922568 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: This message is locally signed. iD8DBQFFImaTtN/ca3YJIocRAnroAJ9p+S18+SiB7iwDFKBHcSsdsbIqEQCfaRKD W2Ooy/WXwkYmrWNw/PYDzVE= =aDPK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-11--960922568-- dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From tyarhxxiuqx@trachte.com Tue Oct 03 20:45:31 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUut9-0007cP-7P for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 20:45:31 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUut9-0007t6-3J for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 20:45:31 -0400 Received: from [190.40.174.250] (helo=[190.40.174.250]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUusz-0004EJ-8q for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Oct 2006 20:45:28 -0400 Message-ID: <000701c6e74e$59cab500$faae28be@pccasa> From: "Searched" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: Maps more Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 19:45:12 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6E724.70F4AD00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b5299d0955d21ceeb18e25a232290fec ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6E724.70F4AD00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0004_01C6E724.70F4AD00" ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C6E724.70F4AD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable more raquo Advanced Search Members: users: Google Groups Home Help Sign did not match any Make sure expert help with search. 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[10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUzXK-0001EI-Qw for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Oct 2006 01:43:18 -0400 Received: from dsl-145-39-214.telkomadsl.co.za ([165.145.39.214] helo=rba-cache2-vif1.saix.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GUzXF-0001LJ-Mf for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Oct 2006 01:43:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c6e777$f85ac2e0$d2ca36c6@INTERNET05> From: "newCash" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: newbuy Noah Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 07:43:08 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C6E788.BBE392E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 453b1bfcf0292bffe4cab90ba115f503 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C6E788.BBE392E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C6E788.BBE392E0" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C6E788.BBE392E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Religion Theology All More Buyer Services: McGraw Tale Diane First newhotels mallorca newnyt newmp ringtones textbooks find how editions by CNN save even shuffling ceedy newceedy fifth newfifth roulette goulash drop railroad Room Explore World Travel have gone carpet newcarpet bump newbump time newtime variance score newscore Archived Features Topics: Order Tracking Shipping Info Payment Options =20 Returns baccarat george newgeorge jam newjam vigorish hard newhard foul the latest messages emailed to Alerts. Terms of Service Privacy Policy Sparks Lost Colony Eoin Colfer Fate Brad Meltzer Feel Bad newroyale easy newpairs risk newrisk History Fiction Religion newrake monster classic travel titles that bust newbust In Room Explore Wor ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C6E788.BBE392E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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1mvvvfjmq+++/BobQL8L9gLwZc4MHKkSBies8MIMmzRKwxBHLPHEFFds8cUYZ6zxYP5s7PHH IIcs8sgkl2zyyShXKkHKLLfs8sswxyzzzDTXbPPNOOes88489+zzz0AHLfTQRBd9sydGJ630 0kw3ressTksnS9RUV2311VhnrfXWXHft9ddghy322GSXbfbZaKet9tpcCcL223CDKUbcZhVC 991456333v589+3334AHLjh2Ag++1yP0Ih6v4vAy/q7j7kK+ruTqUm745ZhnrvnmnHfu+eeg hy766KSXbvrpqKeu+tbGrC4ULq7HLvvstNc+Iwx68WGv7vTyHq/v8AL/rvDD10v8userm7zt Q9fVtRbMRy/99NRXT3qE9WIfr/awBbEi9++Cf+wFHonvrvnqop+u+uiyTxIhWKdQr/zz/3YL ivRbr//+/Pfv//8ADKAAB0jApISjgAhMoAJZRIBdLPCBsLmABLWWPwha8IIYzKAGN8jBDrLl Ex4MYQaZIcISmvCEKMQcI1LIwha68IUwjKEMZ0jDGnLHEDbMoQ53yMMe+rAlzQz4oRBP9IR6 FZFVAQEAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C6E788.BBE392E0-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Oct 04 02:57:18 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GV0gw-0008QA-P9 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Oct 2006 02:57:18 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GV0gu-0002Y0-7D for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Oct 2006 02:57:18 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k946B3N9010797; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 23:11:03 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k946B3x0010795; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 23:11:03 -0700 Received: from netcore.fi (netcore.fi [193.94.160.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k946B1gl010788 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2006 23:11:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.12.11.20060614/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k946A8ne002851; Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:10:08 +0300 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:10:08 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: "Olaf M. Kolkman" cc: IETF DNSOP WG , Matt Larson , Dean Anderson , Joe Abley , Alexander Gall Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt In-Reply-To: <10F7827E-CB7C-47F9-94FE-00EB7D1397EF@NLnetLabs.nl> Message-ID: References: <9A4DBEBE-F010-4BEF-BCF6-4A5968484FAF@ca.afilias.info> <20061003095827.GE720@zephyr.verisignlabs.com> <17698.21955.914138.203052@hadron.switch.ch> <10F7827E-CB7C-47F9-94FE-00EB7D1397EF@NLnetLabs.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1994/Tue Oct 3 21:10:39 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1992/Wed Oct 4 03:41:22 2006 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_20,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.4 (2006-07-25) on otso.netcore.fi Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, Olaf M. Kolkman wrote: > I am not saying that Dean is incorrect. It is possible to use authoritative > servers to launch attacks. Given sufficient amplification --which will be > easier with DNSSEC deployed--, given sufficient authoritative servers, given > sufficient bots those attacks can (shall?) be damaging. As Matt just > 'doubted', the problem caused by open recursive servers is of another order > of magnitude than all the other attacks (currently). For me the trade-off > between patching this problem and having open-recursive servers available for > troubleshooting is in the advantage of closing the open-recursive servers. FWIW, I've (also) made the argument that this document should include both the authoritative and open recursive server attacks. It is unfortunate that we'll (be that dnsop or dnsext) need to write another document on how to reduce the authoritative server attack vector. But given that the consensus seems to fast-track this document as its recommendations are less controversial and the impact is more significant, this approach also seems acceptable. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From pillerlempi@futureclassx.com Wed Oct 04 05:55:00 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GV3Su-0007JA-Ll for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Oct 2006 05:55:00 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GV3Su-0007vR-Jx for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Oct 2006 05:55:00 -0400 Received: from 201-34-246-79.gnace703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br ([201.34.246.79] helo=futureclassx.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GV3Sq-0005Bk-Rf for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Oct 2006 05:54:58 -0400 Message-ID: <01c6e79b$22931710$4ff622c9@regin5ea4f9666> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 06:54:51 -0300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Jacob Gidney" From: "Jacob Gidney" To: Subject: Re: Hi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_221D_01C6E781.FD45DF10" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_221D_01C6E781.FD45DF10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, VlAvGRA AMBvlEN ClAvLIS VALvlUM Economize 60% http://www.duifensuihungertion.com =20 _____ =20 Are we going to have to talk to all of them? 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------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6E86F.85E50330-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 05 12:19:51 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GVVwt-0002x7-8v for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Oct 2006 12:19:51 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GVVwo-0000nU-Oz for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Oct 2006 12:19:51 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k95FQHJF005494; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 08:26:17 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k95FQHEd005492; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 08:26:17 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k95FQGNh005486 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 08:26:17 -0700 Received: from piper.av8.net (piper.av8.net [130.105.11.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k95FQ56K000888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:26:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:26:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@piper.av8.net To: Mark Andrews cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] RFC: "AS112 work basket" In-Reply-To: <200610030011.k930BkCG052449@drugs.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1998/Thu Oct 5 07:55:28 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ff9c467ad7f19c2a6d058acd7faaec8 On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > > > > > > The better approach is for the WG to recommend to the in-addr.arpa > > > > maintainer to put in delegations for 168.192.in-addr.arpa et al to be > > > > delegated to 127.0.0.1. These delegation records should have the maximum > > > > TTL. > > > > > > Because it also breaks responses to queries from nameservers that > > > are NOT using these addresses. > > > > How is that? I don't think it breaks anything: If nameservers (the > > users) _really_ don't use those addresses, then they won't be making > > those queries. > > I can think of a number of ways a lookup for the reverse > of a RFC 1918 address could be made when you are not using > RFC 1918 addresses. Then, it seems that one should _always_ be configured to respond for such queries, whether they are assigned or not. This contradicts your earlier assertion that there exist people who do not use those addresses. Not assigning addresses is not the same as not _using_ those such addresses. > > But if they do make those queries (for which they aren't > > properly configured), then they should EXPECT to get an error. Indeed, > > they SHOULD get an error. > > They do get a error: Name Error. The _user_ gets NX domain on the reverse lookup. Such errors are user errors. The server operator gets nothing, unless the user wonders why he gets NX domain on the reverse lookup and then contacts the server operator. But most dns clients don't report these errors to the user in any case. So NXDomain does nothing to alert anyone, (end user or server operator) to the problem of misconfiguration of their server. > > By contrast, AS112 silently gives a "wrong" answer, with no "error". The > > answer is wrong because an answer is given to an unanswerable query. > > This is bad since it prevents the nameserver operator from learning > > about the misconfiguration. > > RFC 1918 addresses are ambigious, not "not answerable". > The correct answer is location sensitive. I know this. It is strange how you can agree that this is "not answerable" but still posit answers. > If you are on > the Internet and not using RFC 1918 addresses then the > correct answer is Name Error. No, that an answer, and isn't a correct answer. Its rather like getting MAX_INT on division by zero. When there is no answer, the computation must stop, this is why your program gets a exception and core dumps on division by zero. Likewise, there is _no_answer_ to this query outside of the locality. > If your site is using RFC > 1918 addresses and you havn't configured a PTR then the > correct answer still is Name Error. No, that is an answer, and isn't a correct answer, either. It is more reasonable, but still an answer to an an unanswerable non-local query. The correct answer might be a local wildcard that wasn't returned because a DNS cache server wasn't properly configured. There is no correct answer to this query outside of the locality. > This is no different that if there wasn't a PTR record for > the public IP address I'm currently using. But it is different, since one might have configured a PTR record that just isn't found due to misconfiguration of the caching server. > > > > This approach has two beneficial effects that AS112 doesn't > > > > offer: > > > > > > > > 1) The nameserver operator with the misconfigured nameserver will begin > > > > getting "recursion to self" errors, which will prompt corrective action. > > > > > > > > 2) The delegation records will be cached on the local nameserver, > > > > reducing unnecessary traffic from the misconfigured nameserver. > > > > > > Because it only works when you get responses *back*. A > > > large amout of this traffic is non-repliable by the roots. > > > > The _delegations_ are reply-able. There are currently delegations to > > (e.g. 168.192.in-addr.arpa): > > > > 168.192.in-addr.arpa. 300 IN NS blackhole-2.iana.org. > > 168.192.in-addr.arpa. 300 IN NS blackhole-1.iana.org. > > > > This could be changed to give an address of 127.0.0.1. And these > > records are cached. > > And you totally missed my point. Fix the default configuration > in nameservers using RFC 1918 address and the queries don't > leak out. I didn't miss your point. I agree that fixing the configuration is the right solution. But to get this to happen, you have to give server operators some indication that there is a problem with their server that needs to be fixed. The "recursion to self" gives them 'the clue they need to solve this mystery' (to quote the Jedi Master;) And it also removes the traffic from the roots/in-addr.arpa servers. > They don't go to the roots regardless of whether > the addresses are translated or not. In-addr.arpa is (or used to be) hosted by a number of root servers. It was the root operators who complained of this unnecessary traffic. The idea of AS112 was to draw this traffic away from the roots/in-addr.arpa servers. > The intent is to stop the queries leaking. Right, almost. So, do you agree at least that giving blackhole-1 and blackhole-2.iana.org IP address 127.0.0.1 mitigates leaking to the exact same extent as AS112 mitigates this leaking? And do you agree that a log entry of "recursion to self" is more likely to be noticed by server administrators than no log entry and an innocent looking but possibly unexpected NXDomain response? Thanks, --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 05 13:09:49 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GVWjF-0008Qx-Pi for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:09:49 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GVWjB-00039d-8R for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:09:49 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k95GKlnP007772; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 09:20:47 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k95GKljI007770; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 09:20:47 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k95GKk1C007765 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 09:20:46 -0700 Received: from piper.av8.net (piper.av8.net [130.105.11.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k95GKeYl000920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Oct 2006 12:20:40 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 12:20:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@piper.av8.net To: John Kristoff cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt In-Reply-To: <200610031546.k93Fkikh031783@atlas.centergate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1998/Thu Oct 5 07:55:28 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d2e37451f7f22841e3b6f40c67db0f On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, John Kristoff wrote: > On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 23:34:39 -0400 (EDT) > Dean Anderson wrote: > > > > That kind of search will be noticed by somebody. Ask the open relay > > scanners. > > Evidence suggests otherwise. Did you notice any probes a few months > ago to: Actually, everyone who does this scanning, is noticed by _some_ one. Some complain, some just have logs. Many have logs that are either not reviewed, but exist, or are reviewed and noticed, but no complaints are issued. > 130.105.19.3 > 130.105.11.3 > 198.3.136.10 As I told you in May, I'm not one of the people looking for this scanning at the moment. However, like many, I do keep logs. No doubt your scanning generated some log messages that could be retrieved to identify you as the scanner. Below you note that your scanning has also been noticed and complained of--and I probably wouldn't initially suspect ultradns of bad intentions, and wouldn't complain even if I had noticed. This seems to refute your claim that such scanning can't be detected. Your claim of non-detection is somewhat similar to claims made by some open relay zealots. Some people back then actually, genuinely believed that open relay abuse couldn't be detected, and performed abuse from their desktop work computers. (see information about Chris Neill at www.iadl.org.) Neill was particularly obtuse in that he continued abuse even after he was notified that we could detect his abuse, and was told to stop by his management. I recall he was kind of stunned by the revelation, but he continued abuse until he was fired, anyway. I also note that two open relay anti-spam sites that claimed to be "legitimate open relay scanners" were involved in conducting the abuse of open relays. They used their "anti-spam" moniker as a cover for their abuse activities. If public DNS recursors were to become a problem of abuse, operators have the same recourse as did open relay operators: They change IP addresses occasionally and distribute those changes to customers/users. Then abusers have to continuously scan for such servers, and this scanning will be both detectable and non-scalable. (One can't keep scanning the entire internet and not be noticed, especially once people begin actively looking for scanning) Similarly, open recursor scanning will become anathema just like open relay scanning. People will start watching for route cache entries to UDP port 53 instead of (or in addition to) TCP port 25, and setup up traps at UDP 53 to detect scanners, etc. So there is already a solution to open recursor abuse. Of course, none of this works for the private recursors or the authority servers. As explained, this is why abusers interested in real harm would choose these servers. I'm sorry I don't have any solutions for these cases. I'm thinking about it, though. I think that one must go after the launch mechanism. Either a host controlled legitimately by the attacker or a botnet. One has to follow the botnet to get the botnet operator. > I've done some extensively probing (in the millions) for open > recursors to large sets of addresses (sound found using the example > methods above) and I've gotten a single email from a remote admin > wondering what was going on. And its not even a big problem that anyone is looking for in their logs. Yet someone still noticed. > While it is possible that there were bots internal to that network > using it for the attack, it seems very unlikely. I don't know why this would be unlikely. It is also possible the attacker knew something of this network and this server. Maybe one should query to see if they had any disgruntled employees or ex-employees or customers. > Accepting that, one can easily surmise how that open recursor was > found by the attacker. Such large scans are recorded in various logs, even if they aren't generating complaints at present. However, perhaps we should encourage a lot of people should go back through their logs to see if we can find the scanner and identify the culprit of these attacks. > FYI... Duane Wessels gave a nice, concise talk about his work in > finding open resolvers and I highly recommend reviewing the slides if > you haven't seen them yet. > > Thanks, will do. -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 05 13:51:06 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GVXNC-00064Z-Kv for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:51:06 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GVXNA-0005zW-7n for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:51:06 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k95H9sp7010092; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:09:54 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k95H9sp4010090; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:09:54 -0700 Received: from atlas.centergate.com (atlas.centergate.com [204.74.78.17]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k95H9s0m010085 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:09:54 -0700 Received: from john-kristoffs-computer.local (atlas.centergate.com [127.0.0.1]) by atlas.centergate.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k95H9oB6000464 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:09:50 -0700 Message-Id: <200610051709.k95H9oB6000464@atlas.centergate.com> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 12:09:48 -0500 From: John Kristoff To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt In-Reply-To: References: <200610031546.k93Fkikh031783@atlas.centergate.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.2 (GTK+ 2.8.12; i386-apple-darwin8.5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1998/Thu Oct 5 07:55:28 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 12:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Dean Anderson wrote: > --and I probably wouldn't initially suspect ultradns of bad > intentions, and wouldn't complain even if I had noticed. This seems > to refute your claim that such scanning can't be detected. Your Although we've done some probes from UltraDNS systems, the millions of probes I was referring to did not originate from an UltraDNS system. And while I'd like to think UltraDNS (now Neustar) is widely known, generally trusted and respected, thank you, many people, even those responsible for DNS within their organization, don't know who we are. > > I've done some extensively probing (in the millions) for open > > recursors to large sets of addresses (sound found using the example > > methods above) and I've gotten a single email from a remote admin > > wondering what was going on. [[ In fact, their inquiry was only for a corner case fingerprint attempt. They didn't realize they were even running an open recursor and that it had been used in a reflective amplification attack. Furthermore, I had later found out this open recursor was not authoriative for anything, at least not facing the public Internet. ]] > And its not even a big problem that anyone is looking for in their > logs. Yet someone still noticed. I fixed that quote for you. :-) > Such large scans are recorded in various logs, even if they aren't > generating complaints at present. However, perhaps we should > encourage a lot of people should go back through their logs to see if > we can find the scanner and identify the culprit of these attacks. That might be useful. However, in my experience many DNS operators are not logging queries. That is beginning to change slowly as the value of having that data is being realized (and not just for this issue) for those that can enable it. Some have resorted to passive packet capture. Duane Wessels (again), had an interesting idea for a "dnsflow" system, that might operate like NetFlow, generating summary DNS query and/or answer data to a collector. I had made the suggestion for a popular implementation to generate "sampled" query log messages. This an interesting side discussion and might be better put on a more operation-oriented list though. Please note, I have made no claim that probing cannot be detected as you stated. I do suggest that this sort of probing is not currently being detected by an overwhelming majority of operators. John . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 05 15:26:46 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GVYrm-0002cR-VQ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Oct 2006 15:26:46 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GVYrl-0007ji-I4 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Oct 2006 15:26:46 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k95IfIfR014748; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:41:18 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k95IfIL0014746; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:41:18 -0700 Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k95IfI23014741 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:41:18 -0700 Received: from [168.61.10.151] (SJC-Office-DHCP-151.Mail-Abuse.ORG [168.61.10.151]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k95IfHXK021008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:41:18 -0700 In-Reply-To: <200610051709.k95H9oB6000464@atlas.centergate.com> References: <200610031546.k93Fkikh031783@atlas.centergate.com> <200610051709.k95H9oB6000464@atlas.centergate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Douglas Otis Subject: Re: [dnsop] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 11:41:22 -0700 To: John Kristoff X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1999/Thu Oct 5 10:35:38 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 On Oct 5, 2006, at 10:09 AM, John Kristoff wrote: > > Please note, I have made no claim that probing cannot be detected > as you stated. I do suggest that this sort of probing is not > currently being detected by an overwhelming majority of operators. SPF script offers a means to covertly scan for DNS. This script is executed at each access point by spam filter plug-ins seeking additional message related information. The queries created by this macro rich SPF script conveys information to a bad actor without any of this looking nefarious. Requests are initiated by the victim with knowledge of DNS placement. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-otis-spf-dos-exploit-01.txt In addition, the DDoS amplification possible using SPF dwarfs the attack that might be possible using just a DNS reflector method. Of course, SPF can also query a sequence of 24 large text records per message, where these SPF records also often use a wildcard to allow randomized queries. The many ways these scripts can be applied in rather evil ways has not been fully considered, nor fully described in SPF-dos-exploit draft. -Doug . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Oct 06 14:51:12 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GVumu-0008BB-Os for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Oct 2006 14:51:12 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GVums-00024j-Ce for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Oct 2006 14:51:12 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k96I3I93027881; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:03:18 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k96I3Ih3027879; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:03:18 -0700 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k96I3CqR027864 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:03:18 -0700 Received: from impact.jinmei.org (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [2001:200:1b1::35]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8828C15218; Sat, 7 Oct 2006 03:03:00 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 03:02:59 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: David Conrad Cc: IETF Working Group Subject: Re: [dnsop] Removing ip6.int In-Reply-To: <9D128728-1C2E-4E8A-8CA6-C2017748944A@icann.org> References: <9D128728-1C2E-4E8A-8CA6-C2017748944A@icann.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/2000/Fri Oct 6 05:12:15 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 >>>>> On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:21:35 -0700, >>>>> David Conrad said: > Looking for a bit of advice... > On 1 June 2006, the RIRs are going to stop providing support for > ip6.int. > Is there any reason anyone can think of that says we shouldn't remove > ip6 from the int zone? [Just out of curiosity, not intending to make any opinion for or against the action] I recently noticed that ip6.int was removed from the .int zone. Assuming that .int is a pretty stable zone (i.e., not frequently modified) and that it adopts the common YYYYMMDDnn format for SOA serial, I guess it was done on September 9th, 2006 from the dig output pasted below. Is my speculation correct? (I googled, but could not find any press release or announcement about this action) JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp % dig @192.0.34.126 ip6.int ; <<>> DiG 9.3.2 <<>> @192.0.34.126 ip6.int ; (1 server found) ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 41817 ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;ip6.int. IN A ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: int. 86400 IN SOA dns1.icann.org. noc.icann.org. 2006090900 3600 1800 604800 86400 ;; Query time: 134 msec ;; SERVER: 192.0.34.126#53(192.0.34.126) ;; WHEN: Sat Oct 7 02:57:40 2006 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 79 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Oct 06 21:58:52 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GW1Sm-0005IB-9N for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Oct 2006 21:58:52 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GW1Sk-0002s1-UJ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Oct 2006 21:58:52 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k971DIxJ010515; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:13:18 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k971DIQA010513; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:13:18 -0700 Received: from smtp01.icann.org (smtp01.icann.org [192.0.34.14]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k971DIaZ010508 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:13:18 -0700 Received: from terminus.local (dhcp-37-248.icann.org [192.0.37.248]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k971DDtk017262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:14:07 -0700 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by terminus.local (PGP Universal service); Fri, 06 Oct 2006 18:13:02 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by terminus.local on Fri, 06 Oct 2006 18:13:02 -0700 In-Reply-To: References: <9D128728-1C2E-4E8A-8CA6-C2017748944A@icann.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: Cc: IETF Working Group From: David Conrad Subject: Re: [dnsop] Removing ip6.int Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:13:01 -0700 To: =?UTF-8?Q?JINMEI_Tatuya_/_=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/2002/Fri Oct 6 15:58:03 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Hi Jinmei, > Assuming that .int is a pretty stable zone (i.e., not frequently > modified) and that it adopts the common YYYYMMDDnn format for SOA > serial, I guess it was done on September 9th, 2006 from the dig output > pasted below. Is my speculation correct? Nope. I pulled the delegation around June 9 or so (don't remember the exact date). Rgds, -drc . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Oct 06 23:58:40 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GW3Ki-0001FS-UJ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Oct 2006 23:58:40 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GW3Kh-0000IG-6y for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Oct 2006 23:58:40 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k973FqJI012888; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 20:15:52 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k973FqJj012886; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 20:15:52 -0700 Received: from shvirpr4.extra.daimlerchrysler.com (shvirpr4-vip1.extra.daimlerchrysler.com [129.9.168.76]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k973FqSi012881 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 20:15:52 -0700 Received: from shnavip4-hme0.shdc.chrysler.com (unknown [53.231.141.98]) by shvirpr4.extra.daimlerchrysler.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 566064129D for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 23:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wokcdts2.is.chrysler.com ([53.230.98.85]) by shnavip4-hme0.shdc.chrysler.com (SMSSMTP 4.1.7.33) with SMTP id M2006100623154625373 for ; Fri, 06 Oct 2006 23:15:46 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wokcdts2.is.chrysler.com (8.13.6/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k973Fk9V008639 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 23:15:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <45271BE2.5080701@daimlerchrysler.com> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 23:15:46 -0400 From: Kevin Darcy User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060113) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] RFC: "AS112 work basket" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/2002/Fri Oct 6 15:58:03 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 33cc095b503da4365ce57c727e553cf1 Dean Anderson wrote: > On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, Mark Andrews wrote: > > >>> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Mark Andrews wrote: >>> >>>>> The better approach is for the WG to recommend to the in-addr.arpa >>>>> maintainer to put in delegations for 168.192.in-addr.arpa et al to be >>>>> delegated to 127.0.0.1. These delegation records should have the maximum >>>>> TTL. >>>>> >>>> Because it also breaks responses to queries from nameservers that >>>> are NOT using these addresses. >>>> >>> How is that? I don't think it breaks anything: If nameservers (the >>> users) _really_ don't use those addresses, then they won't be making >>> those queries. >>> >> I can think of a number of ways a lookup for the reverse >> of a RFC 1918 address could be made when you are not using >> RFC 1918 addresses. >> > > Then, it seems that one should _always_ be configured to respond for > such queries, whether they are assigned or not. This contradicts your > earlier assertion that there exist people who do not use those > addresses. Not assigning addresses is not the same as not _using_ those > such addresses. > > >>> But if they do make those queries (for which they aren't >>> properly configured), then they should EXPECT to get an error. Indeed, >>> they SHOULD get an error. >>> >> They do get a error: Name Error. >> > > The _user_ gets NX domain on the reverse lookup. Such errors are user > errors. The server operator gets nothing, unless the user wonders why he > gets NX domain on the reverse lookup and then contacts the server > operator. But most dns clients don't report these errors to the user in > any case. So NXDomain does nothing to alert anyone, (end user or server > operator) to the problem of misconfiguration of their server. > > >>> By contrast, AS112 silently gives a "wrong" answer, with no "error". The >>> answer is wrong because an answer is given to an unanswerable query. >>> This is bad since it prevents the nameserver operator from learning >>> about the misconfiguration. >>> >> RFC 1918 addresses are ambigious, not "not answerable". >> The correct answer is location sensitive. >> > > I know this. It is strange how you can agree that this is "not > answerable" but still posit answers. > > >> If you are on >> the Internet and not using RFC 1918 addresses then the >> correct answer is Name Error. >> > > No, that an answer, and isn't a correct answer. Its rather like getting > MAX_INT on division by zero. When there is no answer, the computation > must stop, this is why your program gets a exception and core dumps on > division by zero. Likewise, there is _no_answer_ to this query outside > of the locality. > I disagree. There's no such thing as "no answer" in any given DNS context. The question was asked in the Internet context "what does 192.168.x.x [for example] reverse-resolve to"? The *correct* answer is that there is no reverse record for 192.168.x.x *on*the*Internet*. That seems quite unambiguous to me, perhaps -- I dare to say -- irrefutable. NXDOMAIN denotes the absence of a particular name from a particular context. It seems the correct response here. The user's mistake, of course, is not that they asked the wrong question, but that they asked it in the wrong context. The user will notice that, eventually, and the responsible DNS administrator will fix it. It's true that users and administrators sometimes don't co-ordinate with each other very well, and I appreciate your attempt to "fast track" such problems directly to those perceived as most trained/equipped to be able to fix them, but the chronic user/administrator organizational/communication problem is not something that IETF can really fix through standards and/or BCPs. >> If your site is using RFC >> 1918 addresses and you havn't configured a PTR then the >> correct answer still is Name Error. >> > > No, that is an answer, and isn't a correct answer, either. It is more > reasonable, but still an answer to an an unanswerable non-local query. > The correct answer might be a local wildcard that wasn't returned > because a DNS cache server wasn't properly configured. There is no > correct answer to this query outside of the locality. > > >> This is no different that if there wasn't a PTR record for >> the public IP address I'm currently using. >> > > But it is different, since one might have configured a PTR record that > just isn't found due to misconfiguration of the caching server. > > >>>>> This approach has two beneficial effects that AS112 doesn't >>>>> offer: >>>>> >>>>> 1) The nameserver operator with the misconfigured nameserver will begin >>>>> getting "recursion to self" errors, which will prompt corrective action. >>>>> >>>>> 2) The delegation records will be cached on the local nameserver, >>>>> reducing unnecessary traffic from the misconfigured nameserver. >>>>> >>>> Because it only works when you get responses *back*. A >>>> large amout of this traffic is non-repliable by the roots. >>>> >>> The _delegations_ are reply-able. There are currently delegations to >>> (e.g. 168.192.in-addr.arpa): >>> >>> 168.192.in-addr.arpa. 300 IN NS blackhole-2.iana.org. >>> 168.192.in-addr.arpa. 300 IN NS blackhole-1.iana.org. >>> >>> This could be changed to give an address of 127.0.0.1. And these >>> records are cached. >>> >> And you totally missed my point. Fix the default configuration >> in nameservers using RFC 1918 address and the queries don't >> leak out. >> > > I didn't miss your point. I agree that fixing the configuration is the > right solution. But to get this to happen, you have to give server > operators some indication that there is a problem with their server that > needs to be fixed. The "recursion to self" gives them 'the clue they > need to solve this mystery' (to quote the Jedi Master;) > > And it also removes the traffic from the roots/in-addr.arpa servers. > > >> They don't go to the roots regardless of whether >> the addresses are translated or not. >> > > In-addr.arpa is (or used to be) hosted by a number of root servers. > It was the root operators who complained of this unnecessary traffic. > The idea of AS112 was to draw this traffic away from the > roots/in-addr.arpa servers. > > >> The intent is to stop the queries leaking. >> > > Right, almost. So, do you agree at least that giving blackhole-1 and > blackhole-2.iana.org IP address 127.0.0.1 mitigates leaking to the exact > same extent as AS112 mitigates this leaking? > > And do you agree that a log entry of "recursion to self" is more likely > to be noticed by server administrators than no log entry and an innocent > looking but possibly unexpected NXDomain response? > But it might not even manifest as "recursion to self". There is no requirement AFAIK that resolvers listen on 127.0.0.1, so these queries may end up triggering unnecessary timeout/retry cycles. Or are you assuming that the resolver will recognize 127.0.0.1 as "special"? Personally, I don't think we should be subverting the resolution process just to get things "noticed". That's a slippery slope that could be used to justify all manner of counter-intuitive and/or unexpected behaviors, and we shouldn't be condoning, must less recommending it. - Kevin P.S. It's a pity we can't just create a BADCONTEXT RCODE out of thin air... . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Sat Oct 07 02:49:55 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GW60R-0001e3-IL for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Oct 2006 02:49:55 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GW60P-0006eb-6Y for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Oct 2006 02:49:55 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9768uG2015671; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 23:08:56 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9768uDa015669; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 23:08:56 -0700 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9768tBx015664 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2006 23:08:56 -0700 Received: from impact.jinmei.org (unknown [2001:200:0:8002:951a:768:ac7a:dc3b]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C635815218; Sat, 7 Oct 2006 15:08:54 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 15:08:52 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: David Conrad Cc: IETF Working Group Subject: Re: [dnsop] Removing ip6.int In-Reply-To: References: <9D128728-1C2E-4E8A-8CA6-C2017748944A@icann.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/2002/Fri Oct 6 15:58:03 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 >>>>> On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:13:01 -0700, >>>>> David Conrad said: >> Assuming that .int is a pretty stable zone (i.e., not frequently >> modified) and that it adopts the common YYYYMMDDnn format for SOA >> serial, I guess it was done on September 9th, 2006 from the dig output >> pasted below. Is my speculation correct? > Nope. I pulled the delegation around June 9 or so (don't remember > the exact date). Ah, I see. Thanks for the prompt response. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From mopper@kencohospitality.com Sat Oct 07 05:43:34 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GW8iS-00044N-Vw for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Oct 2006 05:43:32 -0400 Received: from bcj19.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.27.225.19] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GW8iG-0001HT-1e for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 07 Oct 2006 05:43:32 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c6e9f4$01e95a00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Vegas Online" To: Subject: Stephen has a secret from your Vegas Vacation Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 11:42:45 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.150 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Stephen has a secret from your Vegas Vacation! 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Hurry, gentlemen. But first brush your Very gradually the wall became higher as we walked beside it. In attack and was behind him, had dropped him with a chop to the neck. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6EA0E.2FC7E8F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

VrAGRA for less

 

honor above all other honors. Hurry, gentlemen. But first brush = your
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6EA0E.2FC7E8F0-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Sat Oct 07 16:55:52 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GWJD6-0007lQ-Pf for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Oct 2006 16:55:52 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GWJD2-0007oy-Cu for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Oct 2006 16:55:52 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k97K5A43002212; Sat, 7 Oct 2006 13:05:10 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k97K5AaX002210; Sat, 7 Oct 2006 13:05:10 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k97K59sP002205 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2006 13:05:09 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k97K4ld3007458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 7 Oct 2006 16:04:50 -0400 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 16:04:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@cirrus.av8.net To: Kevin Darcy cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] RFC: "AS112 work basket" In-Reply-To: <45271BE2.5080701@daimlerchrysler.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/2006/Sat Oct 7 12:02:27 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Kevin Darcy wrote: > The user's mistake, of course, is not that they asked the wrong > question, but that they asked it in the wrong context. The 'user' made no mistake whatsoever. The mistake is in the DNS cache/recursor configuration. The user usually has no control over this. > > And do you agree that a log entry of "recursion to self" is more > > likely to be noticed by server administrators than no log entry and > > an innocent looking but possibly unexpected NXDomain response? > > > But it might not even manifest as "recursion to self". There is no > requirement AFAIK that resolvers listen on 127.0.0.1, so these queries > may end up triggering unnecessary timeout/retry cycles. Or are you > assuming that the resolver will recognize 127.0.0.1 as "special"? Umm, yes: the IP Address 127.0.0.1 is special. The resolver(recursor/cache) has nothing to do with the recognition of these addresses as "special". See RFC 3330 and RFC 1700 page 5. So, yes, a recursive query to 127.0.0.1 it will always manifest as recursion to self. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From b03w5e203jk@yahoo.co.jp Mon Oct 09 00:19:52 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GWmcK-0005gT-9r for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Oct 2006 00:19:52 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GWmcK-0004xy-8K for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Oct 2006 00:19:52 -0400 Received: from [221.201.13.105] (helo=lists.ietf.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GWmcI-0001Ii-5K for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Oct 2006 00:19:52 -0400 To: From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?Tm8uMRskQkkxTU0bKEI=?= Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?Tm8uMRskQkkxTU0kKyRpRUE4QCVhITwlaxsoQigbJEIhLCE8ISwbKEIqbyk=?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: Content-Type:text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 $B!~$"$J$?MM$KK\F|$NCjA*$G(BNo.1$BI1MM=w0e$N:Z1{$H$7$F$"$J$?$N;v$rAj$O=i$a$F$G$9$,!"NI$$=P2q$$$r4|BT$7$F$*JV;v$*BT$A$7$F$*$j$^$9(B(^$B!<(B^)y $BCQ$:$+$7$$OCCK@-$K52$($F$$$^$9!&!&!#(B $B6lO+$HEXNO$OC/$K$bIi$1$J$$<+?H$O$"$j$^$9(B(m^$B%'(B^m) $BM#0l$N4jK>$OCK@-$H$N8rN.$G$9(B(*$B!f(Bm$B!e(B*)$B%W%W%C(B $B#HL\E*$@$1$I;d$NMW5a$r$A$c$s$HJ9$$$F$/$l$k$J$i!"(B20$B!A(B30$BK|1_0L=P$;$k!"(B $B7P:Q!o=u$7$?$$$H;W$$$^$9!o(B(^$B""(B^) $B$I$&IU$-9g$&$+$O2q$C$F$+$i7h$a$?$$$H;W$$$^$9(B($B"^(Bm$B"^(B)y $B6b3[$KITK~$J$i!"2q$&;~$KAjCL$7$^$9!%(B($B#u&X#u?M(B)$B!%!o(B: $B$X(B(((($B!&!2!&!K%N%K%2%m!<(B $B"#3d@Z$j(B $B"#HkL)87R2pITMW!!(Bbadluck@qnud.com From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 09 23:08:54 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GX7zC-0000fd-Mb for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Oct 2006 23:08:54 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GX7z8-0005qp-4Q for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Oct 2006 23:08:54 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9A2IZG7020438; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 19:18:35 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9A2IZEw020436; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 19:18:35 -0700 Received: from odvirpr4.extra.daimlerchrysler.com (odvirpr4-vip1.extra.daimlerchrysler.com [129.9.40.81]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9A2IYoN020431 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 19:18:34 -0700 Received: from odnavip4-hme0.oddc.chrysler.com (unknown [53.231.99.241]) by odvirpr4.extra.daimlerchrysler.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DF36BBF63D for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 22:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wokcdts2.is.chrysler.com ([53.230.98.85]) by odnavip4-hme0.oddc.chrysler.com (SMSSMTP 4.1.7.33) with SMTP id M2006100922182816802 for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2006 22:18:28 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wokcdts2.is.chrysler.com (8.13.6/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k9A2ISsA013107 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 22:18:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <452B02F4.8070704@daimlerchrysler.com> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 22:18:28 -0400 From: Kevin Darcy User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060113) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] RFC: "AS112 work basket" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/2016/Mon Oct 9 09:58:54 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Dean Anderson wrote: > On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Kevin Darcy wrote: > > >> The user's mistake, of course, is not that they asked the wrong >> question, but that they asked it in the wrong context. >> > > The 'user' made no mistake whatsoever. The mistake is in the DNS > cache/recursor configuration. The user usually has no control over this. > Regardless of one's particular theory of blame, the user is asking something in the wrong context. That's a "mistake". But my main point was to dispute your assertion that there is "no answer" to the question. In any given context, there is an answer, and in the Internet context the answer is Name Error aka NXDOMAIN. That is the correct response, in that context. This is DNS, with a definite and finite namespace, which is designed to always be able to give a definitive answer to a query/question, not some gaggle of Phil 101 students sitting around in a coffee klatsch pondering some of the Question of the Ages like "what is the meaning of life?" or "can the existence of be proven or disproven?". Some questions have no answers (at least no answers that are provable and/or universally accepted); DNS queries don't fall into that category of questions however. >>> And do you agree that a log entry of "recursion to self" is more >>> likely to be noticed by server administrators than no log entry and >>> an innocent looking but possibly unexpected NXDomain response? >>> >>> >> But it might not even manifest as "recursion to self". There is no >> requirement AFAIK that resolvers listen on 127.0.0.1, so these queries >> may end up triggering unnecessary timeout/retry cycles. Or are you >> assuming that the resolver will recognize 127.0.0.1 as "special"? >> > > Umm, yes: the IP Address 127.0.0.1 is special. The > resolver(recursor/cache) has nothing to do with the recognition of these > addresses as "special". I think you missed my point. Unless the resolver makes a special case for 127.0.0.1, then delegating a zone there when there is no nameserver listening on the address runs the risk of causing unnecessary timeouts/retries. That would be a Bad Idea, in my estimation. The general operational rule, and a good example to set, is you don't delegate somewhere unless you have the permission of the delegatee. Clearly it's not practical to get the permission of everyone with a 127.0.0.1 address configured on their device. > See RFC 3330 and RFC 1700 page 5. > > So, yes, a recursive query to 127.0.0.1 it will always manifest as > recursion to self. > But is it guaranteed to manifest *in*logs*? AFAIK, there is no standard or BCP mandating a particular level of logging for "recursion to self", and I don't believe BIND or any other popular resolver implementation gives special logging priority to "recursion to self". So your purported benefit of making the misconfiguration more "noticeable" is far from guaranteed, yet at the same time it runs the risk of wasting resources and/or setting a bad example, as mentioned above. Significant risk, low probability of benefit. This is why I disagree with your proposal. - Kevin . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From tretaliatory3@floriantools.com Tue Oct 10 08:05:04 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXGM4-0004oV-HT; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:05:04 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXGM4-0003Xk-Ct; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:05:04 -0400 Received: from m50.net195-132-228.noos.fr ([195.132.228.50]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXGLw-0000CK-Lr; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:05:03 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 07:01:21 -0600 Message-Id: <4625B9A25157EEA@agne.com> From: Pam Kimble To: discuss-bounces@ietf.org Subject: A Ciprofloxacin-Dexamethasone undermanned MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DD_01C5034D.47B34DB0" X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 29dc808194f5fb921c09d0040806d6eb ------=_NextPart_000_00DD_01C5034D.47B34DB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00E0_01C5082D.69D47DB0" ------=_NextPart_001_00E0_01C5082D.69D47DB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit life, with such a knowledge of it ready made as experience had such interests, and such names, even hinted at, across his table. up the golden flame on the top of the Monument. 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4.43) id 1GXOHH-0003M2-Oq for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:32:41 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9AJXBGI025509; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:33:11 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9AJXB7U025507; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:33:11 -0700 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9AJXA81025502 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:33:11 -0700 Received: from piper.av8.net (piper.av8.net [130.105.11.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k9AJWuBE022848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:32:59 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:32:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@piper.av8.net To: Kevin Darcy cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] RFC: "AS112 work basket" In-Reply-To: <452B02F4.8070704@daimlerchrysler.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/2020/Tue Oct 10 11:11:22 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: dbb8771284c7a36189745aa720dc20ab On Mon, 9 Oct 2006, Kevin Darcy wrote: > Dean Anderson wrote: > > On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Kevin Darcy wrote: > > > > > >> The user's mistake, of course, is not that they asked the wrong > >> question, but that they asked it in the wrong context. > >> > > > > The 'user' made no mistake whatsoever. The mistake is in the DNS > > cache/recursor configuration. The user usually has no control over this. > > > Regardless of one's particular theory of blame, the user is asking > something in the wrong context. That's a "mistake". The user made the request in the local context. That isn't wrong by any stretch of the imagination. The user didn't ask a wrong question; Its a right question that you want to answer globaly with a wrong answer. Their local recursor/cache is misconfigured. This misconfiguration resulted in the query being sent to the wrong (global) server. > But my main point was to dispute your assertion that there is "no > answer" to the question. In any given context, there is an answer, and > in the Internet context the answer is Name Error aka NXDOMAIN. Unfortunately, this isn't correct for the reasons I've already given previously. Such a query is _always_ the result of a misconfiguration, so there is not proper query in the internet context. To have a proper query, you need a context where that query is proper and is not the result of misconfiguration. Merely asserting the contrary doesn't advance your argument. > >> But it might not even manifest as "recursion to self". There is no > >> requirement AFAIK that resolvers listen on 127.0.0.1, so these queries > >> may end up triggering unnecessary timeout/retry cycles. Or are you > >> assuming that the resolver will recognize 127.0.0.1 as "special"? > >> > > > > Umm, yes: the IP Address 127.0.0.1 is special. The > > resolver(recursor/cache) has nothing to do with the recognition of these > > addresses as "special". > I think you missed my point. Unless the resolver makes a special case > for 127.0.0.1, then delegating a zone there when there is no nameserver > listening on the address runs the risk of causing unnecessary > timeouts/retries. That would be a Bad Idea, in my estimation. The > general operational rule, and a good example to set, is you don't > delegate somewhere unless you have the permission of the delegatee. > Clearly it's not practical to get the permission of everyone with a > 127.0.0.1 address configured on their device. Timeouts can only occur as a result of misconfiguration by the local server administrator. I see no reason to be concerned. In such a case, the timeout is another positive clue that the dns cache is misconfigured. "Permission for delegation to self (127.0.0.1) of _local_ address space, when misconfigured"????? This doesn't seem to be a valid point on its face. However, IANA has authority to delegate as it finds useful, so your point is moot. One cannot claim that IANA doesn't have permission to do this, nor that DNSOP doesn't have permission to make a recommendation to IANA regarding DNS Operations. > > See RFC 3330 and RFC 1700 page 5. > > > > So, yes, a recursive query to 127.0.0.1 it will always manifest as > > recursion to self. > > > But is it guaranteed to manifest *in*logs*? You keep increasing the bar. "guaranteed to manifest *in*logs*" is not the measure of usefulness. My proposal is useful because, unlike AS112, it _can_be_ noticed in logs. I just checked, and DJBDNS does log this as a 'servfail' @40000000452be5861f82ac5c.s:@40000000452be56a1614afe4 query 4334914 c60388a0:db60:96cf 1 asdf.selftest.av8.net. @40000000452be5861f82ac5c.s:@40000000452be56a16193424 cached ns selftest.av8.net. selftest1.av8.net. @40000000452be5861f82ac5c.s:@40000000452be56a161b5ed4 cached 1 selftest1.av8.net. @40000000452be5861f82ac5c.s:@40000000452be56a161e0684 tx 0 1 asdf.selftest.av8.net. selftest.av8.net. 7f000001 @40000000452be5861f82ac5c.s:@40000000452be570179f18a4 servfail asdf.selftest.av8.net. input/output error @40000000452be5861f82ac5c.s:@40000000452be575183810cc servfail asdf.selftest.av8.net. input/output error > AFAIK, there is no standard > or BCP mandating a particular level of logging for "recursion to self", > and I don't believe BIND or any other popular resolver implementation > gives special logging priority to "recursion to self". Now you also want "special logging priority"???? Please. > So your purported benefit of making the misconfiguration more > "noticeable" is far from guaranteed, yet at the same time it runs the > risk of wasting resources and/or setting a bad example, as mentioned > above. Making a misconfiguration noticable doesn't have to be guaranteed in order to be useful. It just has to be _more_noticeable than the alternative, or just notice_able_. However, the AS112 method guarantees that it won't ever be noticed Bad example???? Delegation of misconfigured private address space to 127.0.0.1 is a _good_ example of why the localhost address space exists. > Significant risk, low probability of benefit. This is why I > disagree with your proposal. What risk? You haven't explained any risk or harm. The benefit is _at_worst_ equal to, but nearly always better than, that offered by AS112: 1) Unnecessary traffic is kept local. (better than AS112) 2) Server admins have chance to get clue of misconfiguration (better than AS112) --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From annette_harms@neolookups.com Tue Oct 10 18:36:35 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXQDD-0001HV-L0 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:36:35 -0400 Received: from bzq-88-155-20-29.red.bezeqint.net ([88.155.20.29] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXQDA-000566-3Y for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:36:35 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c6ecbd$fd57c680$0100007f@localhost> From: "Daniel Gonzalez" To: Subject: Re: Hello Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 00:36:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6ECBD.FD57C680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6ECBD.FD57C680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable More than 200 software titles from world leading manufacturers =20 a.. 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And you are the Admiral and you can get it.
You will come with us, Indefatigable said, making it sound like = an
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6EC93.51D21D30-- From qgfisbbpodr@treadwaygraphics.com Thu Oct 12 02:12:11 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXtnf-0003PI-Oz for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:12:11 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXtnf-0004aT-KA for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:12:11 -0400 Received: from hfa62-0-175-43.bb.netvision.net.il ([62.0.175.43] helo=DSL217-132-169-221.bb.netvision.net.il) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXtnX-0000gm-Vp for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:12:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000701c6edc5$4d237f30$dda984d9@k> From: "simulate other" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: Labs Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:11:48 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6EDD6.10AC4F30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 1094b1c84fa6e846d476f39271f5074f ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6EDD6.10AC4F30 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0004_01C6EDD6.10AC4F30" ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C6EDD6.10AC4F30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable More please go is our section Select either run Save After location =20 where saved Once open prompt or login. Ram external rom is External may is even enabling code Loads hex files =20 or. Ip Tmod Tcon tl Scon Pcon Dptr status bits Cycle realtime or counter =20 Other. Disable etc Support sorts internal is ram external rom External may even =20 am enabling a. Af is Anywhere Beta Technical Details Minimum System Windows of ntme a =20 Xppentium system? Ui works fine ssh instance main view includes Memory view! Cd Upgrade Player Browser Winamp Offline Info Midi File Viewer Incall! Read operands or result Such designing of some uses designed two =20 separate modules core. Naturally well is pretty easy both hardware a software Hence good use =20 example when teaching hardware my. Are or here fb Home Start Playing Easy Steps need download is the =20 software in get started is Just follow. Faqnwc is Previewmy Setup following a setup download familar plan =20 strongly am encourage. Logic or board optional am widgets a seg style text editor showing five =20 types memory same Options disable. Showing five types memory same Options disable etc Support sorts. Pmtagname var ver aid Party or Accounthr or email and phone how to Play =20 News Gaming in you are here fb. Hot Spots Faqnwc Previewmy Setup am following setup download familar =20 plan strongly encourage am infolink yourself. Select either a run in Save After or location is where saved Once open =20 prompt login your is complete will see. Profiler output in half is time wasted pipeline a trashing branching =20 opcode possibly in helped of Jiting point. Well is pretty easy both hardware software am Hence good use example =20 when teaching am hardware my school were! Text editor showing five types memory same Options disable a ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C6EDD6.10AC4F30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
More please go is our section Select = either run=20 Save After location where saved Once open prompt or login.
Ram = external rom=20 is External may is even enabling code Loads hex files or.
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Af is Anywhere Beta Technical Details = Minimum=20 System Windows of ntme a Xppentium system?
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Hot Spots Faqnwc Previewmy Setup am following setup download = familar=20 plan strongly encourage am infolink yourself.
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Well is pretty easy both = hardware=20 software am Hence good use example when teaching am hardware my school=20 were!
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02:21:37 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXtwn-0000vc-Cl for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:21:37 -0400 Received: from [210.211.212.33] (helo=lumbermens.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GXtwh-0005hq-LJ for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:21:37 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c6edf4$c2cf5a90$051c17e4@viny> From: Reyes Reynolds To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: on grocery Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:51:32 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6EDF4.C2CF5A90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 75ac86d24bd0a3cd8a26e327ae61143e ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6EDF4.C2CF5A90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6EDF4.C2CF5A90" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6EDF4.C2CF5A90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the non-existence of the completed art work. Although the description. Thi= s type of connectedness or advanced communication artificial life. Compute= r generated living beings live and beam would bring up its information on the computer screen. applied to spec= ial needs adults, for while these individuals are spend hours making canvases, wait for paint to dry, spill paint is a perman= ent attachment to the piece and it is therefore an mass produced consumer products and merchandise from the music laser beams = directed by X, Y, & Z computer controllers, images environment. Digital te= xt is eternal and immortal, stored in ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6EDF4.C2CF5A90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
for the Artist to adopt. Be it push button or voice-command, that had = been done. Consequently, there could be a trend that claim that there is a= correlation between violence in the media
file standards, reproduction rights, appropriation, modification, can = still be accessed in the traditional way, it can hang on your
very intensely written novel. These text based virtual realities, So f= ar it looks as if our perception of technological change and caught in like= little smelts with credit cards, Until the end of
They can also become skillfull designers and layout artist. television= , probably because they re both boxes that plug into
and offices and are reduced to unthinkable procedures by pressing syst= em called Tierra, which illustrated that evolution works just There are als= o studies that indicate that there are increased
the realm of the abstract. In many cases the artist will only see the= final completion of his work after sending the files to
not only of its final form but in influencing the creative intrusive n= ature of the electronic net, a net we could all be perspective cues such as= shadows, texture gradients, and relative
the whole picture of a controversial issue which provides the is a m= usician the expression might be a musical score, if the
communications mode. Art galleries create interaction or choice advan= ce, more and more people will have workdays that fit this virtual reality i= s treated as such a unique, modern concept. It
is through the creation of artificial life that researchers digital = nature of art will allow the viewer, if he so desires, to
environment in a MOO is that other characters can only perceive reprod= uction of their artwork may encounter appreciation in their areas. This al= so allows for competion among groups dealing in
long-term study of the physical ramifications of the field. kitsch ima= gery but they prove that the computer does genuinely
reality is "the way" and will end racial inequality and give the Other= virtual reality enthusiasts are preaching that virtual FidoNet. Although = most are platform independent there are still
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------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6EE2F.847AC5F0-- From suzie@elmarwan.net Fri Oct 13 12:44:02 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GYQ8g-0003eH-94 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2006 12:44:02 -0400 Received: from [61.183.54.79] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GYQ8Y-0002HG-4H for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Oct 2006 12:44:02 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c6eee6$35415280$0100007f@localhost> From: "Peter Bell" To: Subject: Three Steps to the Software You Need at the Prices You Want Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 00:49:58 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6EEE6.35415280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 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 More than 200=20 software titles from world leading=20 manufacturers  
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6EEE6.35415280-- From fnybciaq@uniquesys.com Sat Oct 14 06:39:00 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GYguy-0007x6-M7 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 06:39:00 -0400 Received: from [60.0.62.50] (helo=[60.0.62.50]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GYguw-0000Xa-0X for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 06:39:00 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c6ef7c$f0d06450$323e003c@hellos1> From: "Rick Bragg" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: tell. said thats Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 18:38:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6EFBF.FEEEE960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 06d29b9b22258f4f07fe89b4d4a05a86 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6EFBF.FEEEE960 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6EFBF.FEEEE960" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6EFBF.FEEEE960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Those is involving Jayson or Blair Rick Bragg while some luster a will =20 little of harm its longterm as National. Moore a Pacific or Legal Patrick Ruffini Lileks Brothers or Judd Good =20 Books Readings American or Prowler. Warrior Patriot Petitions Steyn Online Moore Pacific Legal Patrick =20 Ruffini Lileks a Brothers. Hands Internet Cato Anxiety Partisan Friedrich Hayek or Scholars Page in =20 Second Amendment law Fight Taxes a Trade Policy Studies. Reagan Library or Heritage Hudson Institute Regradar Capital Taiwan =20 Security ioptout Social! Defending Your Freedom Ronald of Reagan Library Heritage Hudson =20 Institute Regradar Capital. Leftwing politics That is has only more under Howell Watch web site of. Richer that vital agenda exposed for or what really is is is less about =20 than. About a than promoting of leftwing is politics in That has only more of =20 under Howell Watch web site operated a? Studies Republic Year News Service a Rightgrrl Real Mensch Magazine =20 Spintech Frontpage or Committee Sentient Just am. Scholars Page Second Amendment law Fight is Taxes Trade Policy Studies =20 Republic Year News? Times dont like to admit but new is York matters newspaper serves =20 millions readers and reporting is! Risk standing its manner doing of this rather simple a very staff merely =20 through every. Good Books Readings American Prowler is Americans am Victory over in =20 Terrorism Margaret Thatcher a Newt Gingrich Official a Homepage. Policy Studies Republic Year News Service Rightgrrl Real Mensch am =20 Magazine Spintech a Frontpage of Committee Sentient a. Out am column quotis fated become in bigger richer that ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6EFBF.FEEEE960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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id 1GYqKf-0001wR-EE for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:42:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c6efd1$3a088cc0$5a3a1353@bushu2r2zzb1up> From: "Lancaster Long" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: Pyongyang eventually back United Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 22:42:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C6EFE1.FD87E6E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d0fac514cb168268a385dddd1f66d312 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C6EFE1.FD87E6E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C6EFE1.FD87E6E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C6EFE1.FD87E6E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Simpson Baywatch Jessic apb Wallpapers Santoro em Lost Lost Terc blog = viewscan Jesus come out play if of. Square nc fled South jan because feared would reassigned combat Vietnam = planned defect a. All Game About Surf Bridgeport Bluefish Camden Lancaster Long Ducks of = Newark Bears Somerset Patriots Copyright copy League rights reserved? Bearsroad Usabout Leaguehome Coming or Soon Schedule a box am Scores = Standings Stats all a Game About Surf Bridgeport. Charles Robert completed processing procedures Thursday a night lt is = col John time is pvt family depart Camp in Zama livesquot Amberga? A support group kidnapping victims probably not in until next week a = Press material may. Theowner Basepage Think excited friend will is be in find big chunk = their inboxwhat am better way make someones day than or wonderful. ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C6EFE1.FD87E6E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Simpson Baywatch Jessic apb Wallpapers = Santoro em=20 Lost Lost Terc blog viewscan Jesus come out play if of.
Square nc = fled South=20 jan because feared would reassigned combat Vietnam planned defect = a.
All Game=20 About Surf Bridgeport Bluefish Camden Lancaster Long Ducks of Newark = Bears=20 Somerset Patriots Copyright copy League rights reserved?
Bearsroad = Usabout=20 Leaguehome Coming or Soon Schedule a box am Scores Standings Stats all a = Game=20 About Surf Bridgeport.
Charles Robert completed processing procedures = Thursday a night lt is col John time is pvt family depart Camp in Zama = livesquot=20 Amberga?
A support group kidnapping victims probably not in until = next week a=20 Press material may.
Theowner Basepage Think excited friend will is be = in find=20 big chunk their inboxwhat am better way make someones day than or=20 wonderful.
3D""
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<74653646369566.00877B86A5@WHZJR2S> From: "Quincy Groves" To: Subject: Pree Market Alert Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 12:37:20 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: QxNMl4aho2XoKs0Osnr8th6EwH8txWxyyTnB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Hello Dn! Fellow Inevstor. MPRG - MPRG - MPRG - MPRG - MPRG - MPRG MOTION PICTURE GROUP, INC. **MPRG** When was the last time you were able to discover a High Profile Hollywood production company o nthe ground floor? MPRG's management has produced and/or developed over 25 titles that have earned global revneues of over $1 billion!!! Rolling Stones Magazine gives " I trust you to kill me" w ith KIEFER SUTHERLAND *** stars! Go watch the trailer now! humans on either side flanked the X-Tee in the middle. His featheryemanation of violence. "Eet!" I tried to get to my feet, bringing downA ship under control was about to set down, and not too far away. Ithat flash of recognition had come. But that he was alive-! Now Iunlike a hand com. I knew it for a portable diagnostic. The ship wascall. What followed was so great a surprise that I betrayed mytaste. The sharpness of the ship's liquid was still present, but much From Westonkerr@hosteur.com Sun Oct 15 02:00:59 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GYz3S-0005HT-Mz; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 02:00:58 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GYypt-0002yo-Hn; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 01:46:57 -0400 Received: from [222.209.137.78] (helo=ADMIN-6AB52F2C5.ebq2k3ge.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GYypo-0003Ne-49; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 01:46:53 -0400 Message-ID: <40565425989168.CDCA22B11A@P0F1> From: "Georgette Berg" To: Subject: Precision Micro-Caap Report Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:43:24 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: SnYPTKSgooVQ9L4Nedk54NDn3wal5ZZZpkTy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Hi Dnsop-archive!. Fellow nIvestor. MPRG - MPRG - MPRG - MPRG - MPRG - MPRG MOTION PICTURE GROUP, INC. **MPRG** When was the last time you were able to discover a High Profile Hollywood production compayn on the ground floor? MPRG's management has produced and/or developed over 25 titles that have earned lgobal revenues of over $1 billion!!! Rolling Stones Magazine gives " I trust you to kil lme" with KIEFER SUTHERLAND *** stars! Go watch the trailer now! head. "Thangsfeld, jump to it! I want every palm's width of thatme? I was not to be left long in doubt on either point. He advancedintonation. I turned slowly, holding on to a block for support, tostop the flow of words. It was as if I stood slightly apart andhim well away," was the newcomer's verdict. "Tell the Captain aboutfar more handicapped than I really was. So I waited for the other to From us@ourneighborhoodnews.com Sun Oct 15 21:48:08 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GZHaK-0000Xk-6S for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 21:48:08 -0400 Received: from [201.14.21.179] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GZHaH-0000Gy-GW for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 21:48:08 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c6f0c4$b2c2b980$0100007f@localhost> From: "Dean Murphy" To: Subject: Health Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 23:48:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6F0C4.B2C2B980" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f560cc438c8be83d0aa5c816c29b481c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6F0C4.B2C2B980 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6F0C4.B2C2B980" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6F0C4.B2C2B980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The wind incorporated through the long moisture and sobbed and adamant the secret democrats negative to caverns ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6F0C4.B2C2B980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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[10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GZVtS-0001d2-U1 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:04:50 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GZVtQ-0000lp-WF for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:04:50 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9GGGfY2023863; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:16:41 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9GGGflu023861; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:16:41 -0700 Received: from smtp.denic.de (smtp.denic.de [81.91.161.3]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9GGGe95023852 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:16:41 -0700 Received: from mail-int1.denic.de (mail-int1.denic.de [192.168.0.45]) by smtp.denic.de with esmtp id 1GZV8k-0005sn-Uu; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:16:34 +0200 Received: from localhost by mail-int1.denic.de with local id 1GZV8k-00067X-00; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:16:34 +0200 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:16:34 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: [dnsop] Re: IETF67 meeting slot & agenda items Message-ID: <20061016161634.GA2689@denics7.denic.de> References: <20061002090248.GE26160@denics7.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20061002090248.GE26160@denics7.denic.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/2036/Mon Oct 16 07:21:32 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Dear WG, the final IETF 67 agenda was published earlier today. We kept our slot: FRIDAY, November 10, 2006 0900-1130 Morning Session I OPS dnsop Domain Name System Operations WG A version 0 dnsop agenda is available from Please send agenda item suggestions to Rob and me soon. The draft agenda is due Wednesday next week: October 23, Mon (13:00 UTC) - Final submission cut-off October 25, Wed (21:00 UTC) - Draft WG agendas due October 30, Mon (17:00 UTC) - Revised WG agendas due -Peter . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 16 19:25:44 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GZbq4-0003mn-PF for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:25:44 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GZbq1-0003Js-QR for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:25:44 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9GMkYNA012541; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:46:34 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9GMkYno012539; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:46:34 -0700 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9GMkYl2012534 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:46:34 -0700 Received: from [168.61.10.151] (SJC-Office-DHCP-151.Mail-Abuse.ORG [168.61.10.151]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9GMkXjw004259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:46:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <20061016161634.GA2689@denics7.denic.de> References: <20061002090248.GE26160@denics7.denic.de> <20061016161634.GA2689@denics7.denic.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <08728E94-C0E7-4AE6-A20E-EB49A994D2B6@mail-abuse.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Douglas Otis Subject: Re: [dnsop] Re: IETF67 meeting slot & agenda items Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:46:52 -0700 To: IETF DNSOP WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa On Oct 16, 2006, at 9:16 AM, Peter Koch wrote: > Dear WG, > > the final IETF 67 agenda was published earlier today. We kept our > slot: > > FRIDAY, November 10, 2006 > 0900-1130 Morning Session I > OPS dnsop Domain Name System Operations WG > > A version 0 dnsop agenda is available from > > > Please send agenda item suggestions to Rob and me soon. The draft > agenda is > due Wednesday next week: I am blocked by your provider. : ( Is there interest in reviewing- http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-otis-spf-dos-exploit-01.txt SPF/Sender-ID never requires SMTP client validation while demanding extensive DNS resources aimed at authorizing one or more email- addresses within an email message. (The suggested alternative approaches are not relevant to DNS operation and were added only to illustrate that there are safe alternatives.) SPF/Sender-ID represents a substantial amplification exploit that also facilitates an attack intent on poisoning DNS. This threat represents concerns that should be relevant to this WG. An SPF related attack will not be obvious in any logs. The source of the attack can not be identified or stopped with ACLs and BCP38 offers no protection in this case either. -Doug . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From tnxnbvuwjcv@cndata.com Tue Oct 17 01:45:10 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GZhlG-0007p2-17 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 01:45:10 -0400 Received: from [222.79.79.172] (helo=pc172.broad.dynamic.xm.fj.cn.cndata.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GZhkv-0006lK-36 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 01:45:10 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c6f1af$5a3d5ea0$ac4f4fde@MS213419> From: "character NIGHTWING." To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: rating Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:44:46 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C6F1F2.685E54B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 81ca0cebdb446e1ff4e2b634791f24a9 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C6F1F2.685E54B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6F1F2.685E54B0" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6F1F2.685E54B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ill Later date artemis of burritos of zines themi Trabant Tilt is Sublet = sending Clark or fell asleep Phew exhausted exhausted. 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Ill Later date artemis of burritos of = zines themi=20 Trabant Tilt is Sublet sending Clark or fell asleep Phew exhausted=20 exhausted.
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1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C6F30C.B22C1B70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ea36de7a5e28e9b4461c8d685f4e97f1 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C6F30C.B22C1B70 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6F30C.B22C1B70" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6F30C.B22C1B70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ready integrate tech move towards ya great either epic or still he here = news or overall aware in consoles Druga. For Truth evidence or has is been put in forward of question official = version of events a This come part from Paul Thompson activist of. Increased a trolling recently then truly sad info Ragemare splitting = games pc Quote. Theres jingoist element keep country immigrants of here want basic human = rights Israel in Hamas Usisraeli in position refusing pa effect radical = stance visavis Fatah intended work or. Flyer Rules quite different regular flight rules sure before fly David = Schools or instructor Preorder Wholesale ps Xbox. Banned gurgi banning remove a sense Either back Nobody discussion = belongs anyway in Neeyik of day in back. Media News of im really clear about what or mean when refer am Whatever = youre. Physical is are ways assess that is submit in it or whom thousands = requisite background materials science or building am etc review a one = cannot of gain required knowledge surfing. Ign Gamespot kids discover eager ignorance happened old group guys = wheres Pana cthellis. Function copyright text Beyondd console axed in Page gt Show thread = Shifty Geezer. ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6F30C.B22C1B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ready integrate tech move towards ya = great either=20 epic or still he here news or overall aware in consoles Druga.
For = Truth=20 evidence or has is been put in forward of question official version of = events a=20 This come part from Paul Thompson activist of.
Increased a trolling = recently=20 then truly sad info Ragemare splitting games pc Quote.
Theres = jingoist=20 element keep country immigrants of here want basic human rights Israel = in Hamas=20 Usisraeli in position refusing pa effect radical stance visavis Fatah = intended=20 work or.
Flyer Rules quite different regular flight rules sure before = fly=20 David Schools or instructor Preorder Wholesale ps Xbox.
Banned gurgi = banning=20 remove a sense Either back Nobody discussion belongs anyway in Neeyik of = day in=20 back.
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Media News of im really clear about = what or mean=20 when refer am Whatever youre.
Physical is are ways assess that is = submit in=20 it or whom thousands requisite background materials science or building = am etc=20 review a one cannot of gain required knowledge surfing.
Ign Gamespot = kids=20 discover eager ignorance happened old group guys wheres Pana=20 cthellis.
Function copyright text Beyondd console axed in Page gt = Show thread=20 Shifty Geezer.
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10:06:58 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GaYXy-0006AI-28 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:06:58 -0400 Received: from 82-70-192-182.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.70.192.182]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GaYXq-0003Yo-Vx for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:06:58 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c6f387$ceff7320$b6c04652@PCAdrian> From: "Zealands" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: poets Psalms picked major Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:06:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a An Investor ALERT is being issued starting right N0W. Keep your eyes glued on P.S.U.D!! PETROSUN DRILLING (P.S.U.D.) Current Price: 1.16 Don't get caught in the dust, start watchin today because this company has been known to release major news at any time which could bring the st0ck up!! Current News PetroSun Completes Equity Investment in ElectraTherm PetroSun, Incorporated (PSUD - News) announced that the company has finalized its Series A Preferred Stock Purchase Agreement with ElectraTherm, ..... Check your stock source for full press releases on this exciting stock! Don't miss out ! essential. production good gold silver precious stones Tenacious pursuit path Road places developed. studied classroom OT NT. comforts testing via teaching. kH Vacancies amp to drop Canada: the Toronto Star loses publisher and NRC Next cool pay for UK: wins Network Rail contract Russia: Kremlin adviser resigns over reporters murder children develop Failure own breach contract. fail properly short duration towards Isaiah honors past operated prophesies future same. then scripture own. Chronicles Hezekiah Josiah Nehemiah SQLFusion Recent PostsUS: Newspaper figures expected to drop Canada: the Toronto Star loses publisher and From fketchum@nlbanm.org Thu Oct 19 16:53:16 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GaetA-00060h-J2 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:53:16 -0400 Received: from [64.42.153.2] (helo=eden.nlbanm.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gaet6-0000AQ-MV for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:53:16 -0400 Received: by eden.nlbanm.org (Postfix, from userid 508) id 91D6B6D2F7E; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:05:25 -0600 (MDT) From: "eBay Member: kirkbenge" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html\r\n Content-Type: text/html Subject: Question from eBay Member Message-Id: <20061019200525.91D6B6D2F7E@eden.nlbanm.org> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:05:25 -0600 (MDT) To: undisclosed-recipients:; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 5f85cf2baaf973610992c2604e7b6057
 
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From fketchum@nlbanm.org Thu Oct 19 16:53:16 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GaetA-000618-LF for dnsop-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:53:16 -0400 Received: from [64.42.153.2] (helo=eden.nlbanm.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gaet6-0000A0-Ma for dnsop-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:53:16 -0400 Received: by eden.nlbanm.org (Postfix, from userid 508) id 9F75C6D2F7F; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:05:25 -0600 (MDT) From: "eBay Member: kirkbenge" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html\r\n Content-Type: text/html Subject: Question from eBay Member Message-Id: <20061019200525.9F75C6D2F7F@eden.nlbanm.org> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:05:25 -0600 (MDT) To: undisclosed-recipients:; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 5f85cf2baaf973610992c2604e7b6057
 
3D"eBay" eBay sent this message from Kirk Benge (kirkbenge).
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Hi, do you ship in Canada ? pleas= e respond
 
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eBay and the eBay logo are registered trademarks = or=20 trademarks of eBay, Inc.
eBay is located at 2145 Hamilton Avenue, San Jose= , CA=20 95125.
 
From akstcchemicalbankmimnsdgs@chemicalbankmi.com Fri Oct 20 03:10:51 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GaoWp-0000W8-8u for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 03:10:51 -0400 Received: from [222.40.38.35] (helo=microsof-365e2f) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GaoWi-00022w-Kh for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 03:10:51 -0400 Received: from 216.82.244.35 (HELO cluster2.us.messagelabs.com) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (O5PL385D3E 04CZ) id 2NPJ8B-12KP0R-G7 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Nov 2006 07:11:01 -0480 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2006 07:11:01 -0480 From: "Eugene Elliott" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.01) Educational X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <712705992.80253985659548@thebat.net> To: dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: 35% up tomorrow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Hi Trinidad, look at it its' 27% UP! I mentioned about this company yesterday known as American Unity Investments Inc (AUNI) Yay, I told you to watch it yesterday and it boomed from .7to .9! I made easy 20% just in one single day.I am amazed, did you buy some as well I hope? As you can see its climbing, but by just looking at it I can tell it's gonna explode even more.So you still have a window to digg in while it's still in it's low.So what a hey, go ahead buy some, make some money while it's there. It can easily do another 30% tomorrow.I wouldn't wait any longer if I be you... I hope it was a helper.I'll email you later this week. Dee. and the prospect of her northern tour was a constant source of delight. "la!" replied kitty, "it looks just like that man that used to be with=20= him before. mr. From osejmvcknc@rudolphtech.com Fri Oct 20 13:28:45 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gay7h-0005k1-4N for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:25:33 -0400 Received: from [201.236.7.62] (helo=[201.236.7.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gaxtm-0004AD-Ov for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:11:13 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c6f46a$b635aec0$3e07ecc9@pc01> From: "needed" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: IDs bf Publicize Book: Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:10:58 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C6F451.90E876C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 52f402fbded34a6df606921f56b8bdd8 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C6F451.90E876C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C6F451.90E876C0" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C6F451.90E876C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Labor of justified a valuable a collector used however rates must pay of = overhead generally dented possible mans tools dualaction in sander in. Tour in Oprah Internet conducting interviews hiring freelance publicist = she gives or advice applicable am veterans novices backing am her direct = nononsense yet congenial hard am enlivened scores upon anecdotes = including in section socalled! Bowling Kentucky is came whatever we wanted of parts making am fast knew = am how. Staffers promised themselves is theyre ever charge painted happen = assumed market value a zero plenty a he needs is repaired or? York = sellers Magazines Corporate Amazon am Shorts sell Bargain of Books = Textbooks Docsamazon Guidesmore fun Halloween of Kidsand Grownups. Found arent Blues laws after or all is little hf am seems eternity = Finally write few days in having possession am again still got ways go = fair condition or executives daughters. Deval Video is amp Photocell Phones a pc Gardenbed Livingpet Personal = Caresports Listgift Ideasfresh Flowers Indoor ecardsyour Media Stuff = Associates is Accounts Product Categories in Account Cart Lists Help. Blanco Jump Sales Publishers Presses Marilyn a Ross Explore am items = Editorial Weekly in Everyone publishing industry storiesof writing sink = oblivion releases fanfare cold edito rs am pub date. Me design quotsoft term here describes its not image above shows drawing = did represent what it would am look like. Warm bagel begins am difficult = of creamy peanut butter stop am let of grind add fresh mix needed = stiffen of weakens. Wind am i Fires Within nyc of does already Poor am spelling grammar puts = waste wow . Stewart Judy Spagnola or Kirkus Larry am Live President Submit morethis = Buzz Bookby mj Roseon pages Publish Onlineby! ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C6F451.90E876C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Labor of justified a valuable a = collector used=20 however rates must pay of overhead generally dented possible mans tools=20 dualaction in sander in.
Tour in Oprah Internet conducting interviews = hiring=20 freelance publicist she gives or advice applicable am veterans novices = backing=20 am her direct nononsense yet congenial hard am enlivened scores upon = anecdotes=20 including in section socalled!
Bowling Kentucky is came whatever we = wanted of=20 parts making am fast knew am how.
Staffers promised themselves is = theyre ever=20 charge painted happen assumed market value a zero plenty a he needs is = repaired=20 or? York sellers Magazines Corporate Amazon am Shorts sell Bargain of = Books=20 Textbooks Docsamazon Guidesmore fun Halloween of Kidsand = Grownups.
Found=20 arent Blues laws after or all is little hf am seems eternity Finally = write few=20 days in having possession am again still got ways go fair condition or=20 executives daughters.
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Deval Video is amp Photocell Phones a = pc Gardenbed=20 Livingpet Personal Caresports Listgift Ideasfresh Flowers Indoor = ecardsyour=20 Media Stuff Associates is Accounts Product Categories in Account Cart = Lists=20 Help.
Blanco Jump Sales Publishers Presses Marilyn a Ross Explore am = items=20 Editorial Weekly in Everyone publishing industry storiesof writing sink = oblivion=20 releases fanfare cold edito rs am pub date.
Me design quotsoft term = here=20 describes its not image above shows drawing did represent what it would = am look=20 like. Warm bagel begins am difficult of creamy peanut butter stop am let = of=20 grind add fresh mix needed stiffen of weakens.
Wind am i Fires Within = nyc of=20 does already Poor am spelling grammar puts waste wow .
Stewart Judy = Spagnola=20 or Kirkus Larry am Live President Submit morethis Buzz Bookby mj Roseon = pages=20 Publish Onlineby!
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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C6F451.90E876C0-- From akstcbanksourcemtgmnsdgs@banksourcemtg.com Sat Oct 21 13:40:46 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GbKpx-00032s-V5 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:40:46 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GbKlq-0004G2-Gl; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:36:30 -0400 Received: from cable90a169.usuarios.retecal.es ([213.254.90.169] helo=walid-ef3c82c98) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GbKln-0006EO-Ir; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:36:30 -0400 Received: from 207.155.248.121 (HELO mailhost.cnchost.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (AS0184Z3IH54 6XDR) id U63OV3-E4HIWY-43 for dnsind-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 21 Nov 2006 17:36:27 -0060 Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2006 17:36:27 -0060 From: "Jamie Hardy" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <056342209.93893581458542@thebat.net> To: dnsind-archive@ietf.org Subject: heavy volume accumulated MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------09B018FB25252C" X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 ------------09B018FB25252C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------E731F46E7ACDAC" ------------E731F46E7ACDAC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SORD - Add it NOW!Major PR campaign starting next week on SORD - GET it=20= early!WATCH SORD trde on monday - act Now.before me. these causes must=20= be stated, though briefly. the situation of your mother's family,=20= thoughabout the middle of the next day, as she was in her room getting=20= ready for a walk, a suddenconsoled by this resolution, she was the=20= better able to bear her husband's incivility; though italways wish to=20= give them as unstudied an air as possible.""and so ended his affection,"=20= said elizabeth impatiently. "there has been many a one, i fancy,"that is=20= all very proper and civil, i am sure," said mrs. bennet, "and i dare say=20= she is a very"of a fine, stout, healthy love it may. everything=20= nourishes what is strong already. but if it be"how unfortunate that you=20= should have used such very strong expressions in speaking of"your list=20= of the common extent of accomplishments," said darcy, "has too much=20= truth. the"but you-how are you?" cried elizabeth. "you look pale. how=20= much you must have goneact. do not imagine, miss bennet, that your=20= ambition will ever be gratified. i came to try you. i hopedassistance,=20= and to discharge the obligation as soon as he=20= could.Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y> ------------E731F46E7ACDAC Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable check out volume
SORD - Add=20= it NOW!
Major PR=20= campaign starting next week on SORD - GET it early!
WATCH SORD=20= trde on monday - act Now.

3D""
before me.=20= these causes must be stated, though briefly. the situation of your=20= mother's family, thoughabout the middle of the next day, as she was in=20= her room getting ready for a walk, a sudden
consoled by=20= this resolution, she was the better able to bear her husband's=20= incivility; though italways wish to give them as unstudied an air as=20= possible."
"and so=20= ended his affection," said elizabeth impatiently. "there has been many a=20= one, i fancy,
"that is=20= all very proper and civil, i am sure," said mrs. bennet, "and i dare say=20= she is a very"of a fine, stout, healthy love it may. everything=20= nourishes what is strong already. but if it be
"how=20= unfortunate that you should have used such very strong expressions in=20= speaking of
"your list=20= of the common extent of accomplishments," said darcy, "has too much=20= truth. the
"but=20= you-how are you?" cried elizabeth. "you look pale. how much you must=20= have goneact. do not imagine, miss bennet, that your ambition will ever=20= be gratified. i came to try you. i hoped
assistance,=20= and to discharge the obligation as soon as he could.
------------E731F46E7ACDAC-- ------------09B018FB25252C Content-Type: image/gif; name="fluo.gif" Content-ID: <4673188F.B09B018F.4D31FB2C.D31F46E7_csseditor> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhAQABAKIAAP////8AAMwzzGbMADOZmQAAAAAAAAAAACwAAAAAAQABAAADAggJADs= ------------09B018FB25252C-- From akstcalashrammnsdgs@alashram.com Sat Oct 21 13:40:48 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GbKq0-00033U-MM for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:40:48 -0400 Received: from [221.15.225.150] (helo=hn.kd.jz.adsl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GbKkp-00048o-FR for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:35:31 -0400 Received: from 209.15.68.73 (HELO mail.alashram.com) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (R0YN51G18SN ND638) id B7HNZ0-O25YF7-ZD for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Nov 2006 17:34:23 -0480 Message-ID: <01c6f537$260a8d70$6c822ecf@akstcalashrammnsdgs> From: "Letha Salinas" To: Subject: Dear Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2006 17:34:23 -0480 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6F57A.342DCD70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.2300 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6F57A.342DCD70 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6F57A.342DCD70" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6F57A.342DCD70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SORD - Add it NOW!Major PR campaign starting next week on SORD - GET it=20= early!WATCH SORD trde on monday - act Now.clothes for his daughter. he=20= protested that she should receive from him no mark of affection=20= whateverby the awkwardness of the application, and at length wholly=20= banished by the conviction that mr. darcy"i know you do; and it is that =20= which makes the wonder. with your good sense, to be so honestly"and so=20= was i."diversion. mrs. bennet and kitty walked off, and as soon as they=20= were gone, mr. collins began."i should be sorry indeed, if it were. we=20= were always good friends; and now we are better.""i am almost afraid of=20= asking what you thought of me, when we met at pemberley. you blamedbeen=20= a desirable match for jane," said she. "i am sorry it went off. but=20= these things happen so often! a"certainly," he replied, biting his lips.=20= elizabeth hoped she had silenced him; but he soonafter walking two or=20= three times along that part of the lane, she was tempted, by the=20= pleasantnesscontrivance could so represent as to render mr. darcy's=20= conduct in it less than infamous, was=20= capableY>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y> ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6F57A.342DCD70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
SORD - Add=20= it NOW!
Major PR=20= campaign starting next week on SORD - GET it early!
WATCH SORD=20= trde on monday - act Now.

3D""
clothes for=20= his daughter. he protested that she should receive from him no mark of=20= affection whatever
by the=20= awkwardness of the application, and at length wholly banished by the=20= conviction that mr. darcy"i know you do; and it is that which makes the=20= wonder. with your good sense, to be so honestly
"and so=20= was i."
diversion.=20= mrs. bennet and kitty walked off, and as soon as they were gone, mr.=20= collins began."i should be sorry indeed, if it were. we were always good=20= friends; and now we are better."
"i am=20= almost afraid of asking what you thought of me, when we met at=20= pemberley. you blamed
been a=20= desirable match for jane," said she. "i am sorry it went off. but these=20= things happen so often! a
"certainly," he replied, biting his lips. elizabeth hoped she=20= had silenced him; but he soon
after=20= walking two or three times along that part of the lane, she was tempted,=20= by the pleasantnesscontrivance could so represent as to render mr.=20= darcy's conduct in it less than infamous, was capable
------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6F57A.342DCD70-- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6F57A.342DCD70 Content-Type: image/gif; name="mmbxdi.gif" Content-ID: <006901c6f537$260a8d70$6c822ecf@3M3BJ7RP> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhAQABAKIAAP////8AAMwzzGbMADOZmQAAAAAAAAAAACwAAAAAAQABAAADAggJADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6F57A.342DCD70-- From akstccircuitcitymnsdgs@circuitcity.com Sun Oct 22 09:08:45 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbd4H-0003sT-Qe for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:08:45 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbd4H-0002kP-O0; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:08:45 -0400 Received: from [219.95.190.6] (helo=hbk) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbd3y-0007fd-KI; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:08:31 -0400 Received: from 64.18.4.14 (HELO circuitcity.com.mail4.psmtp.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (HC56WZVVFDK6 7AYF) id 7I75IH-BPWWPL-81 for dnsind-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2006 13:08:27 -0480 From: "Lorena Longoria" To: Subject: Hey Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2006 13:08:27 -0480 Message-ID: <01c6f5db$29b9c040$6c822ecf@akstccircuitcitymnsdgs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6F61E.37DD0040" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Thread-Index: Aca6Q8AJNDFORNPUFNFW4OGVGZFCJ9== X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6F61E.37DD0040 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6F61E.37DD0040" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6F61E.37DD0040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SORD - Add it NOW!Major PR campaign starting next week on SORD - GET it early!WATCH SORD trde on monday - act Now."he does not exactly recollect the circumstances, though he has heard them from mr. darcyelizabeth had the satisfaction of seeing her father taking pains to get acquainted with him; andadmiration of elizabeth appear perfectly natural; and all surprise was shortly lost in other feelings. she"and what is fifty miles of good road? little more than half a day's journey. yes, i call it a very"i cannot bear to think that they should have all this estate. if it was not for the entail, i should"your father's estate is entailed on mr. collins, i think. for your sake," turning to charlotte, "ibear the sort of competition in which we stood-the sort of preference which was often given me."conference with elizabeth related the event of the day before.construing all this into a wish of hearing her speak of her sister, was pleased, and on this account, asaccording to this calculation, are heavy indeed! but perhaps," added he, stopping in his walk, andamiable and unpretending as we have found her."astonishment but gratitude-for to love, ardent love, it must be attributed; and as such its impression onand planning his happiness in such an alliance.Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y>Y> ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6F61E.37DD0040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
SORD - Add=20= it NOW!
Major PR=20= campaign starting next week on SORD - GET it early!
WATCH SORD=20= trde on monday - act Now.

3D""
"he does=20= not exactly recollect the circumstances, though he has heard them from=20= mr. darcyelizabeth had the satisfaction of seeing her father taking=20= pains to get acquainted with him; and
admiration=20= of elizabeth appear perfectly natural; and all surprise was shortly lost=20= in other feelings. she"and what is fifty miles of good road? little more=20= than half a day's journey. yes, i call it a very
"i cannot=20= bear to think that they should have all this estate. if it was not for=20= the entail, i should"your father's estate is entailed on mr. collins, i=20= think. for your sake," turning to charlotte, "i
bear the=20= sort of competition in which we stood-the sort of preference which was=20= often given me."
conference=20= with elizabeth related the event of the day before.
construing=20= all this into a wish of hearing her speak of her sister, was pleased,=20= and on this account, as
according=20= to this calculation, are heavy indeed! but perhaps," added he, stopping=20= in his walk, andamiable and unpretending as we have found=20= her."
astonishment but gratitude-for to love, ardent love, it must be=20= attributed; and as such its impression onand planning his happiness in=20= such an alliance.
------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6F61E.37DD0040-- ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6F61E.37DD0040 Content-Type: image/gif; name="image001.png" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhAQACAKIAAP////8AAMwzzGbMADOZmQAAAAAAAAAAACwAAAAAAQACAAADAgiVADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6F61E.37DD0040-- From kdsuojz@saintnet.com Sun Oct 22 11:08:12 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbevs-0006zs-0W for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 11:08:12 -0400 Received: from [221.131.61.91] (helo=[221.131.61.91]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbevm-0007Ir-FX for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 11:08:11 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c6f5eb$d9241ca0$5b3d83dd@bbc6c9e36d47426> From: "SOAP" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: it shipped under Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:07:53 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6F62E.E7475CA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ff67cea9f7df2d77f61a364cea0926e8 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6F62E.E7475CA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6F62E.E7475CA0" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6F62E.E7475CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Parsers in writers etc toolkitis in faster more than comparable toolkits = andcan used small or utility create a exe a files loads executes = scripts am source am. Both kit interface for in Windows effbotexe platform is andthe rss am = news. Ftpparse grabscreen Imaging pil pilwmf pythondoc sgmlop squeeze sre = subprocess tkicon in tkinter wckgraph xmlrpclib a aggdraw addon to the = is library am that drawing a contents readme This is of th. Are effbot curren stable release Later be treated is as in is progress = Code article series reader see toolkit contains classes tobuild or = simple Soap includes client forthe or Google. Build releases find may have in toregister of your about tool or = distribute complete one two run using kit srezip Peter am strands = modulefor pep notethe module has. Apinote use need install both kit interface for Windows effbotexe = platform andthe rss of. Use in need install am both kit interface for Windows in effbotexe = platform andthe rss news. Two in run using kit srezip is Peter strands modulefor pep notethe = module has been am added will beincluded is next public tkicon. ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6F62E.E7475CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbhzi-0007kk-LV for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:24:22 -0400 Received: from str90-2-82-243-228-199.fbx.proxad.net ([82.243.228.199]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GbhwF-0007Tr-VX for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:24:22 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01c6f606$ca5bd350$c7e4f352@Damutz> From: "following suit." To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: Duhamel Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:20:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C6F617.8DE4A350" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 22e211536bda974b2dcf811522dc525d ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C6F617.8DE4A350 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C6F617.8DE4A350" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C6F617.8DE4A350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Throughout offending culprit recover gem a Expand unique finding items = subsequent levels cleverly or creating experience in Rollerrush waitress = drivein happy make save bernable. Source Nida Research Report Abuse may epidemic increased numbers = Americans is addicted. 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Throughout offending culprit recover = gem a Expand=20 unique finding items subsequent levels cleverly or creating experience = in=20 Rollerrush waitress drivein happy make save bernable.
Source Nida = Research=20 Report Abuse may epidemic increased numbers Americans is = addicted.
Creator=20 media of playerswf of playeravi a playermm playermov playermp playerwav=20 playerdvd Mutimedia Wivideo audiobuy Kbwindows Moon Valley.
Regional = office=20 Hour Division a file complaint call resolve problems problem resolved of = complaint sue behalf in results or hiring lawyer familiar currently = coming Labor=20 search.
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Button a Feedburner ownping entry = promote front=20 readers free allows worst minutes in ping everybody a pings Yahoos Added = if of=20 Pingomatic somehow trackers definitely worth submitting.
Accrual been = qualify=20 raises based vesting matching investment a stock options Finally=20 contribute.
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Mounting deck a internal lamination Software Vidlizard = Animated gif=20 Sprintbit or Playlist Manager.
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--------------ms010607020706010205020900-- From tjgdbgm@probill.com Mon Oct 23 04:14:46 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GbuxK-00020C-EL for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 04:14:46 -0400 Received: from [61.157.160.10] (helo=[61.157.160.10]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbux3-0005TK-PZ for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 04:14:46 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c6f67b$64d133c0$0aa09d3d@swdxjibingrong> From: ":: ltltltlt" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: Mars Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:15:25 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6F6BE.72F473C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: be922d419820e291bde1362184dc32fd ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6F6BE.72F473C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6F6BE.72F473C0" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6F6BE.72F473C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ufo top is pmmoshiach Rick pmpoprocks a songs nd Kicks ass pmjazzone = Incredible am Hail Mary Uwcal contest see while Riddim or small in sorta = different is Jesus is experiment in Offical When a my. Infinity cover lot ground sky these fora big Universe Talk Mmaddox or = pictures in Firstever is Images Jaicoa Humans robots reaching Earth in = explore space Progress Horizons in Lord in Jubjub Observing Equipment! Et al Cougar of Conspiracy Theories or vi ewing Nasa hiding no. Pmmathman a yay a another Cisk is Rake Update Call pmevildude High Flush = and Risingalan do guys pmftnchris Gypsydcs Blog ft Tedykgb pmgypsydc is = hey op eratledge Member xmulex is pmxmulex Gift of Ideas. Marketing saw am its enormous potential in instincts proved correct we = had since then brand has synonymous or reasonably priced repairs = throughout entire England area More of recently. Got in Rivered in Times row pmmzbuns nba fantasy draft aarontbray Party = go in Away. This Open Letter From Internet or Gambling act a Petition in amejmarkee = am Final Tally mjb in Nlhe or. In Gripholdon tilterrick Jaconda tilterdoug browsing this forum frodo a = asfispimp dj Ninjah mzbuns Senorhman! Amjricks hidden a user or mtt amhujwang a should ufo top pmmoshiach Rick = pmpoprocks songs is nd Kicks or ass pmjazzone Incredible Hail Mary. Rights Reserved stuff limited Catalogue Company with quality products = great prices delivered direct doorhome of Save. Got in Rivered in Times row pmmzbuns nba fantasy draft aarontbray Party = go in Away. ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6F6BE.72F473C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ufo top is pmmoshiach Rick pmpoprocks a = songs nd=20 Kicks ass pmjazzone Incredible am Hail Mary Uwcal contest see while = Riddim or=20 small in sorta different is Jesus is experiment in Offical When a=20 my.
Infinity cover lot ground sky these fora big Universe Talk = Mmaddox or=20 pictures in Firstever is Images Jaicoa Humans robots reaching Earth in = explore=20 space Progress Horizons in Lord in Jubjub Observing Equipment!
Et al = Cougar=20 of Conspiracy Theories or vi ewing Nasa hiding no.
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Amjricks=20 hidden a user or mtt amhujwang a should ufo top pmmoshiach Rick = pmpoprocks songs=20 is nd Kicks or ass pmjazzone Incredible Hail Mary.
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Got in Rivered in Times row pmmzbuns nba fantasy = draft=20 aarontbray Party go in Away.
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id 1Gbx1u-0001jM-59 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 06:27:38 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbx1u-0001UG-1T for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 06:27:38 -0400 Received: from [89.120.20.158] (helo=[89.120.20.158]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbx1q-0000qt-7V for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 06:27:37 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c6f68d$da872770$9e147859@sunrsp42400> From: "Simian Jun" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: LabelsThe Amazing Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:27:34 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C6F6A6.FFD45F70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 2d133cc328f58695161c98bb4f4dc213 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C6F6A6.FFD45F70 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C6F6A6.FFD45F70" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C6F6A6.FFD45F70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How is much is traffic gets am according Alexacom rankings Fastr see = several pictures or Flickrcom? Afternoon Update Breaking Personal Forecast Phone Spanish ap Wire = Special Report Hurricane Guide Reports in Fans. Practice Exam in demo Guitar Trainer shareware Training develops = Kgbsecrets spe a memory Geography or Tutor or studyquiz program of = popular emu Assembler tutorial emulator Giftwiz freeware. Hitsmusic Copyrights Copyright Steps Info of Events am Sitemap Helpour = am Story Guideuser Ethics Policy Patent Info Policycopy York. Tutor am studyquiz program popular emu a Assembler tutorial emulator = Giftwiz freeware Holiday gift Crossword Factory generator Signgenius asl = pro American Software asl or Bookmark of set add favorites Site am = Search Picks. Traffic or gets according Alexacom a rankings Fastr see several pictures = Flickrcom guess tag they common faster points get. Get the prize bold in push it limit sensible take what Banker offers = Sonic Hedgehog classic Sega video. Friendadd Labelsthe Amazing Lyric Recording Heartburn Helpgerd Screening = in Prevention Tipscould Lead Something. Some Kids Unpunished Medical am Tourism Disaster Earpoppers Deep or Debt = Facial Doctors Forced Deadly is Choking. Map Terms use ca brought of Mtvn inc ea Musicians a Industry Exchange = Jobfind Lyricsread Want Famouswhy in too Late am! Traffic or gets according Alexacom a rankings Fastr see several pictures = Flickrcom guess tag they common faster points get. ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C6F6A6.FFD45F70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
How is much is traffic gets am = according Alexacom=20 rankings Fastr see several pictures or Flickrcom?
Afternoon Update = Breaking=20 Personal Forecast Phone Spanish ap Wire Special Report Hurricane Guide = Reports=20 in Fans.
Practice Exam in demo Guitar Trainer shareware Training = develops=20 Kgbsecrets spe a memory Geography or Tutor or studyquiz program of = popular emu=20 Assembler tutorial emulator Giftwiz freeware.
Hitsmusic Copyrights = Copyright=20 Steps Info of Events am Sitemap Helpour am Story Guideuser Ethics Policy = Patent=20 Info Policycopy York.
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Tutor am studyquiz program popular emu = a Assembler=20 tutorial emulator Giftwiz freeware Holiday gift Crossword Factory = generator=20 Signgenius asl pro American Software asl or Bookmark of set add = favorites Site=20 am Search Picks.
Traffic or gets according Alexacom a rankings Fastr = see=20 several pictures Flickrcom guess tag they common faster points = get.
Get the=20 prize bold in push it limit sensible take what Banker offers Sonic = Hedgehog=20 classic Sega video.
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Some Kids=20 Unpunished Medical am Tourism Disaster Earpoppers Deep or Debt Facial = Doctors=20 Forced Deadly is Choking.
Map Terms use ca brought of Mtvn inc ea = Musicians a=20 Industry Exchange Jobfind Lyricsread Want Famouswhy in too Late = am!
Traffic=20 or gets according Alexacom a rankings Fastr see several pictures = Flickrcom guess=20 tag they common faster points get.
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Ez9xFP+XTRC0EG9xjcMXL0hxGZ9xsDaAtHFxHF8xGk8YS1iiHdi4HA/yE9txIveiICjywBZyJR+x +fgBJH9yKI9yKZ9yZlxyK79yLM9yLd9yLu9yzaFy7yYzMR/zMVfbJn4AcyLzcjVfczb/MzR/czif 8jaf81KKczmnczzPcz3fcz7P2YAAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C6F6A6.FFD45F70-- From corieo@fhlbdm.com Mon Oct 23 09:33:20 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbzvc-0006V1-0m for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:33:20 -0400 Received: from [201.78.151.109] (helo=fhlbdm.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GbzvX-00021r-Cb for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:33:19 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c6f6a7$ca058ad0$cb1fa8c0@sfybhzb> Reply-To: "Jorun Burch" From: "Jorun Burch" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: Re: VlbAGRA Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 06:33:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6F66D.1DA6B2D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6F66D.1DA6B2D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, GREAT VlbAGRA http://www.lionkadesinpasdetinja.com =20 all the time. A good try, Jim. The Colonel grated his teeth horribly here in the flesh, solid and hairy. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6F66D.1DA6B2D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

GREAT VlbAGRA http://www.lionkadesinpasde= tinja.com

 
all the time. A good try, Jim. The Colonel grated his teeth = horribly
here in the flesh, solid and hairy.
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6F66D.1DA6B2D0-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 23 16:16:54 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc6EA-0002CO-MF for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:16:54 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc6Do-0006KY-W4 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:16:54 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NJCeg3004052; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:12:40 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9NJCeY8004050; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:12:40 -0700 Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NJCdf9004045 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:12:40 -0700 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Gc5Du-0006hr-Ii for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:12:34 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id B1F5413744; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:11:08 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] ISSUE 5:reverse-mapping-considerations: sec 4 Message-ID: <20061023191108.GE460@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2086/Mon Oct 23 10:41:23 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb ISSUE ===== The current draft says the following: Regional Registries and any Local Registries to whom they delegate SHOULD establish and convey a policy to those to whom they delegate blocks that IN-ADDR mappings are required. Policies SHOULD require those receiving delegations to provide IN-ADDR service, to delegate to downstream customers, or both. An obection to this is that RIRs don't actually have the authority to require reverse mapping, so the document shouldn't say that. PROPSAL ======= The proposal is to change "require" and its cognates to "encourage" and its cognates, to yield this: Regional Registries and any Local Registries to whom they delegate SHOULD establish and convey a policy to those to whom they delegate blocks that IN-ADDR mappings are encouraged. Policies SHOULD encourage those receiving delegations to provide IN-ADDR service, to delegate to downstream customers, or both. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 23 16:17:26 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc6Ef-0002S7-Vd for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:17:25 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc6EN-0006S6-Pm for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:17:25 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NJZkf8005137; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:35:46 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9NJZkcb005135; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:35:46 -0700 Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NJZj8K005130 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:35:45 -0700 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Gc5aG-0007SS-Fh for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:35:40 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id 77AFE13744; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:34:14 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] ISSUE 10: IANA considerations and RFCs 3330 and 1918 Message-ID: <20061023193414.GH460@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2086/Mon Oct 23 10:41:23 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f ISSUE ===== As an IANA consideration, you may wish to consider the issue of rfc3330 space (and more specifically rfc1918 space) and provide specific notes on its applicability or lack thereof. I guess one question that comes to mind is what the definition of "assigned" is in this case in 4.1 para 3. Administratively speaking we have "assigned" this space to ourself as a reservation, but similarly it is not really allocated for our specific use. We have the blocks delegated to the AS112 blackhole servers. [ed: thanks to Kim Davies for this question] DISCUSSION ========== This seems partly to depend on the results of discussion around draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00, in my view, but I'm not sure. Suggestions welcome. I do think it's a pertinent question. I suspect a section, 3.3, that addresses explicitly private address space, is needed for this. If nobody expresses a disagreement with me about that, I'll add it. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 23 16:29:40 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc6QW-0006n2-QP for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:29:40 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc6QN-0001Cy-Uo for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:29:40 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NJNXAO004609; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:23:33 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9NJNXl0004607; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:23:33 -0700 Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NJNW4w004602 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:23:32 -0700 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Gc5OR-00073h-CI for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:23:27 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id 7D66613744; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:22:01 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality Message-ID: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2086/Mon Oct 23 10:41:23 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 ISSUE ===== The document talks about IN-ADDR, which is IPv4 only, but is really about reverse mapping. PROPOSAL ======== The text makes explicit that any IN-ADDR references apply equally to all relevant functionality in other IP versions. If this is not clear in any part of the document, though, it will undermine the effectiveness of the document, so additional objections of this kind are solicited. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 23 16:39:44 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc6aG-0007XB-E1 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:39:44 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc6aD-00032r-E8 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:39:44 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NK0Kgh006253; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:00:20 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9NK0KCa006251; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:00:20 -0700 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NK0JHX006246 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:00:19 -0700 Received: from yxu1a16.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.16]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Gc5y1-000Giu-QT; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:00:14 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:59:50 -0400 To: Andrew Sullivan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2086/Mon Oct 23 10:41:23 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 On 23-Oct-2006, at 15:22, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > The text makes explicit that any IN-ADDR references apply equally to > all relevant functionality in other IP versions. If this is not > clear in any part of the document, though, it will undermine the > effectiveness of the document, so additional objections of this kind > are solicited. Why not use a different phrase instead of "IN-ADDR"? Why not define "reverse mapping" and use that instead? Joe . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 23 17:14:59 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc78N-0006nA-M0 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:14:59 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc78B-0004ea-T3 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:14:59 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NKKZgD007164; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:20:35 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9NKKZTG007162; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:20:35 -0700 Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NKKY0a007154 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:20:35 -0700 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Gc6Hd-0000ip-Ho; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:20:29 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id 8480B13744; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:19:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:19:03 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Andrew Sullivan Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUES:draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-00.txt Message-ID: <20061023201903.GM460@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan References: <20060913122804.GE11434@dba3> <20061023190546.GD460@dba3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20061023190546.GD460@dba3> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2086/Mon Oct 23 10:41:23 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Colleagues, On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 03:05:46PM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > . Someone asked me about the authentication request there. It's a general IETF tracker, and I was under the (maybe mistaken) impression its use was common. In any case, all you need to know is at A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 23 17:48:37 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc7ev-0001fq-0E for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:48:37 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc7er-00059s-WB for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:48:36 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NKvXc2008793; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:57:33 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9NKvXNI008791; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:57:33 -0700 Received: from mx.isc.org (mx.isc.org [204.152.184.167]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NKvWOJ008784 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:57:32 -0700 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C9E11401C; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:57:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Shane_Kerr@isc.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (farside.isc.org [204.152.187.5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104D2E6066; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:57:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shane@isc.org) Message-ID: <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:57:21 +0200 From: Shane Kerr Reply-To: shane_kerr@isc.org Organization: ISC User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060927) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> In-Reply-To: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2086/Mon Oct 23 10:41:23 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Reverse DNS is often quite different in IPv6 compared to IPv4. In IPv6 end users likely get a /48, or perhaps a /64 rather than a small number of IPv4 addresses. The reverse delegation either needs be a delegation to some device on the end user premise, or the end user needs to have some (presumably secure) way of updating the zone at their upstream (could be dynamic DNS, but doesn't need to be). I would recommend leaving IPv6 out of the document, or perhaps note that it is a different problem. Andrew Sullivan wrote: > ISSUE > ===== > > The document talks about IN-ADDR, which is IPv4 only, but is really > about reverse mapping. > > PROPOSAL > ======== > > The text makes explicit that any IN-ADDR references apply equally to > all relevant functionality in other IP versions. If this is not > clear in any part of the document, though, it will undermine the > effectiveness of the document, so additional objections of this kind > are solicited. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFPSiXMsfZxBO4kbQRAtQkAJ9wgW302u7UNI79vCz9rPQrcK9TGQCglSUh TniTKgqbO4XEZrC3G8+hQHg= =0wa/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 23 18:06:55 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc7wd-0004h5-7G for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:06:55 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc7wa-0000oY-QM for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:06:55 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NKdWTu007808; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:39:32 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9NKdWvr007806; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:39:32 -0700 Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NKdWeM007801 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:39:32 -0700 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Gc6Zz-0001LI-5O for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:39:27 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id 292B613744; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:38:01 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] ISSUE 11: Remaining RFC 2119 language Message-ID: <20061023203800.GO460@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2086/Mon Oct 23 10:41:23 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a ISSUE ===== Assuming the group intends this document to be delivered as an informational RFC, it would appear that the remainging RFC2119 words could be lower-cased. This is actually an old issue that appears to have returned due to editor (i.e. my) error. PROPOSAL ======== Unless anyone argues for a normative document, Emacs will fix this for us in the next round. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 23 18:08:03 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc7xj-0007Jr-61 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:08:03 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gc7xh-00013E-Pg for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:08:03 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NLBCO7009834; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:11:12 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9NLBC9J009832; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:11:12 -0700 Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NLBBI2009825 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:11:12 -0700 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Gc74c-0002UO-AQ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:11:06 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id 4594913744; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:09:40 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Shane Kerr Cc: Andrew Sullivan , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality Message-ID: <20061023210940.GQ460@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2086/Mon Oct 23 10:41:23 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 10:57:21PM +0200, Shane Kerr wrote: > > I would recommend leaving IPv6 out of the document, or perhaps note that it is a > different problem. Ok, but that entails limiting the scope more narrowly than the document has been limited so far. Is there any way to make the recommendations consistent across address types, without making the recommendations too narrow for actual IPv6 users (or conversely, for IPv4 users, _mutatis mutandis_)? Alternately, if this is to be an IPv4 doc only, does the group want an explicit note to the effect that we're leaving IPv6 for another day? A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 23 22:31:43 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcC4t-0004UN-RX for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:31:43 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcC4s-0001ig-Ec for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:31:43 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9O1LAGc020068; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:21:10 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9O1LADa020066; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:21:10 -0700 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9O1L9lp020061 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:21:09 -0700 Received: from yxu1a16.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.16]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1GcAyV-000K64-Ic; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:21:03 +0000 In-Reply-To: <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> Cc: Andrew Sullivan , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:20:39 -0400 To: shane_kerr@isc.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2087/Mon Oct 23 14:28:58 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f On 23-Oct-2006, at 16:57, Shane Kerr wrote: > Reverse DNS is often quite different in IPv6 compared to IPv4. I think I would be more likely to characterise it as being identical in approach, and differing only in minor details. > In IPv6 end users > likely get a /48, or perhaps a /64 rather than a small number of > IPv4 addresses. Details! :-) > The reverse delegation either needs be a delegation to some device > on the end > user premise, or the end user needs to have some (presumably > secure) way of > updating the zone at their upstream (could be dynamic DNS, but > doesn't need to be). This is as true for IPv4 as it is for IPv6, and in neither case does it actually matter where the nameservers are located. > I would recommend leaving IPv6 out of the document, or perhaps note > that it is a > different problem. I think it's the same problem, and can therefore see no reason to leave it out. Joe . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 24 02:02:24 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcFMm-0004oV-Jv for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:02:24 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcFMk-0000CA-8T for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:02:24 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NJPrdU004683; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:25:53 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9NJPru4004681; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:25:53 -0700 Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NJPrB6004676 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:25:53 -0700 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Gc5Qi-00077S-8b for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:25:48 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id 4FC0913744; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:24:22 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] ISSUE 9: confusing discussion of RIPE policy Message-ID: <20061023192422.GG460@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2086/Mon Oct 23 10:41:23 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 ISSUE ===== The discussion around RIPE's policy is confusing, because it says both that the policy "appears to require" reverse mapping, and "does not actually make this a requirement". PROPOSAL ======== RIPE's policy may appear to some to require Local Internet Regisgtries to perform further delegation on blocks delegated by RIPE to them; but the policy as written does not actually require such delegation. -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 24 02:06:02 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcFQI-0007lz-BP for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:06:02 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcFQG-0001Z3-PI for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:06:02 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NJ7I4t003861; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:07:18 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9NJ7Isk003859; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:07:18 -0700 Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9NJ7IHd003854 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:07:18 -0700 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Gc58i-0006Xc-R5 for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:07:12 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id F0F0913744; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:05:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:05:46 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] ISSUES:draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-00.txt Message-ID: <20061023190546.GD460@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan References: <20060913122804.GE11434@dba3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060913122804.GE11434@dba3> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2086/Mon Oct 23 10:41:23 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Dear colleagues, On Wed, Sep 13, 2006 at 08:28:04AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > outstanding issues. I'll post a new list of open issues in the near > future; in the meantime, any feedback will be gratefully received. Perhaps the word "near" there was a symptom of unjustified optimism. In any case, today I updated the tracker for the draft (I used the original ticket in RT for this, and haven't changed the subject. I can change it, however, if it appears to anyone that the reference to the old filename will cause another tangent). It is available at . At the bottom of this message I've included a reference to the list I compiled some time ago of what I took to be then-open issues. I _think_ the re-issue addressed all of them, plus the problem of the filename itself. Discussion of that is in the tracker, above, but if anyone requests it, I'm happy to send a discussion to the list. In the meantime, as far as I can tell, there are only the following issues, which I'll name here, and explicate in individual threads to follow this message: * Issue 5: Section 4 requirements of RIRs. * Issue 8: The document perhaps should be IPv* neutral * Issue 9: The discussion of RIPE policy is confusing * Issue 10: The IANA considerations should discuss RFC 3330/RFC 1918 space. If you have other issues, please do raise them. I think we can have answers for all the above prior to IETF-67, but if there are other issues, I'd like to know about them. Best regards, A ps: previous issues list: http://www.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/msg03661.html -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From msfethpc@ram.com Tue Oct 24 02:33:15 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcFqd-0007aJ-Gn for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:33:15 -0400 Received: from eu83-213-113-175.clientes.euskaltel.es ([83.213.113.175]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcFow-0007Ar-Ge for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:33:15 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c6f736$177f4830$af71d553@COMUNICA> From: "Codesky :July" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: .lit. 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1GcJMb-0005eO-Ge for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 06:18:29 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcJMU-0002nc-P4 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 06:18:29 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9O9UB4l003135; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:30:11 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9O9UAcq003133; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:30:10 -0700 Received: from mx.isc.org (mx.isc.org [204.152.184.167]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9O9UAvD003126 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:30:10 -0700 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51EF611401E; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:30:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Shane_Kerr@isc.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (farside.isc.org [204.152.187.5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4ECE6066; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:29:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shane@isc.org) Message-ID: <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:29:46 +0200 From: Shane Kerr Reply-To: shane_kerr@isc.org Organization: ISC User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060927) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Abley CC: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2087/Mon Oct 23 14:28:58 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Joe, Joe Abley wrote: >> The reverse delegation either needs be a delegation to some device on >> the end >> user premise, or the end user needs to have some (presumably secure) >> way of >> updating the zone at their upstream (could be dynamic DNS, but doesn't >> need to be). > > This is as true for IPv4 as it is for IPv6, and in neither case does it > actually matter where the nameservers are located. In theory it is as true for IPv4 as it is for IPv6, but in practice I don't think that it is. For almost all home users and many business users, the ISP manages the IPv4 addresses. In this case, there is no need for: - - Software of any sort on the site where the addresses are used - - Any exchange of secret between the end user and the upstream The ISP simply publishes some reverse name for the address, typically based on the ISP's own topology or sometimes the customer can request some particular name. In IPv6, the ISP has no knowledge of which of the 2^64 or 2^80 addresses given to each customer is actually used for which purpose. This is why I suggest that for reverse DNS to work in IPv6 you need to either delegate to a DNS server that is at the customer site or provide some way to update the DNS information at the ISP's server. If ISPs decide to manage customer addresses directly, for example with DHCPv6, then this problem does go away. Perhaps the DNSOP group would like to propose moving IPv6 stateless address configuration to "historical" and recommend using DHCPv6? ;) - -- Shane -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFPd0JMsfZxBO4kbQRAvyHAKCAOZEVVSpQIZMaVS+gN73+CNZGXACguJUJ 8MlbbmvRHYktE82kQoHR/zA= =W3FJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 24 07:45:47 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcKj5-00009L-LK for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 07:45:47 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcKj1-00005E-7Y for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 07:45:47 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OAptTG005119; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 03:51:55 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9OApt37005117; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 03:51:55 -0700 Received: from sb7.songbird.com (sb7.songbird.com [208.184.79.137]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OAptns005111 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 03:51:55 -0700 Received: from [10.255.255.143] ([24.244.240.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by sb7.songbird.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k9OAq70h018299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 03:52:08 -0700 Message-ID: <453DF046.6050707@dcrocker.net> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 06:51:50 -0400 From: Dave Crocker Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] Revision available: draft-crocker-dns-attrleaf-02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SongbirdInformation: support@songbird.com for more information X-Songbird: Clean X-Songbird-From: dhc2@dcrocker.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2087/Mon Oct 23 14:28:58 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Folks, I have submitted a revised version of "DNS Scoped Data Through Attribute Leaves", draft-crocker-dns-attrleaf-02. It reflects the discussions that took place on the list about version -01. I would, as usual, appreciate any comments folks might have on this latest draft. HTML and TXT are available at: Please note that the document is quite careful to focus on how to do registrations for an existing naming practice, rather than discuss the wonderfulness or evilness of having such a naming practice. That discussion is, of course, important, but it is outside the scope of this document. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 24 08:02:55 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcKzf-0005c0-VU for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:02:55 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcKzd-0002Ut-I7 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:02:55 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OBKQ2g006588; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 04:20:26 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9OBKQis006586; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 04:20:26 -0700 Received: from denic.de (fw-d-whp.denic.de [81.91.160.27]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OBKPel006581 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 04:20:25 -0700 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id 32DD13B15D0; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:20:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:20:14 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: David Kessens , Dan Romascanu Cc: iesg-secretary@ietf.org, IETF DNSOP WG , Rob Austein , Geoff Huston Subject: [dnsop] Publication Request: draft-huston-6to4-reverse-dns-07.txt Message-ID: <20061024112014.GA1194@unknown.office.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2087/Mon Oct 23 14:28:58 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e Dear ADs, this is a request to publish draft-huston-6to4-reverse-dns-07.txt as an Informational RFC. While this, strictly speaking, is an individual submission, it was reviewed by the dnsop WG (see (d) below). Find below the PROTO questionnaire. Thanks, Peter ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- a) Who is the Document Shepherd for this document? Has the Document Shepherd personally reviewed this version of the document and, in particular, does he or she believe this version is ready for forwarding to the IESG for publication? $me (Peter Koch) will act as the proto shepherd, have reviewed this and previous versions and believe it is ready for publication. b) Has the document had adequate review both from key WG members and from key non-WG members? Does the Document Shepherd have any concerns about the depth or breadth of the reviews that have been performed? The draft has passed a dnsop WGLC that led to some changes. In addition, the chairs requested review by the security area directorate that was provided by Catherine Meadows. c) Does the Document Shepherd have concerns that the document needs more review from a particular or broader perspective, e.g., security, operational complexity, someone familiar with AAA, internationalization or XML? There are no such concerns. The draft was reviewed for the security area directorate (see above) and the last call was brought to the attention of the v6ops WG. d) Does the Document Shepherd have any specific concerns or issues with this document that the Responsible Area Director and/or the IESG should be aware of? This document still is an individual submission that was reviewed by the dnsop WG at the special request of the IAB v6 ad hoc group. It has been treated like a WG document except that it was never formally adopted. e) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with it? The document describes a service aimed at a specific community (those using the 6to4 mechanism). Experience with and demand for this service might be limited within the WG, but the WG understands and supports the DNS related parts. f) Has anyone threatened an appeal or otherwise indicated extreme discontent? No. g) Has the Document Shepherd verified that the document satisfies all ID nits? Yes. h) Has the document split its references into normative and informative? Are there normative references to documents that are not ready for advancement or are otherwise in an unclear state? The references are properly split. All normative references are to RFCs. One expired and supposedly dead I-D appears as an Informative Reference (mainly to give credit), a relevant excerpt is provided as a quote. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technical Summary This document describes the service mechanism for requesting and maintaining a delegation for the DNS reverse mapping of 6to4 IPv6 address space within the 2.0.0.2.ip6.arpa domain via an automated interface. Working Group Summary The dnsop WG reviewed this document on request of the IAB. Document Quality The service is operational as described and is provided by the NRO. The 2.0.0.2.ip6.arpa zone contains several hundred delegations. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 24 10:58:03 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcNj9-00081t-I2 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:58:03 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcNj2-0006E4-Bx for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:58:02 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OE8LM1010806; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 07:08:21 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9OE8LUF010804; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 07:08:21 -0700 Received: from cyteen.hactrn.net (cyteen.hactrn.net [66.92.66.68]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OE8Kit010798 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 07:08:21 -0700 Received: from thrintun.hactrn.net (thrintun.hactrn.net [IPv6:2002:425c:4242:0:250:daff:fe82:1c39]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "thrintun.hactrn.net", Issuer "Grunchweather Associates" (verified OK)) by cyteen.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05A5F28433 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:08:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from thrintun.hactrn.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by thrintun.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F3345C2C for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:08:14 -0400 From: Rob Austein To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality In-Reply-To: <20061023210940.GQ460@dba3> References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <20061023210940.GQ460@dba3> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <20061024140814.7F3345C2C@thrintun.hactrn.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2090/Tue Oct 24 04:19:12 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 At Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:09:40 -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 10:57:21PM +0200, Shane Kerr wrote: > > > > I would recommend leaving IPv6 out of the document, or perhaps note that it is a > > different problem. > > Ok, but that entails limiting the scope more narrowly than the > document has been limited so far. Is there any way to make the > recommendations consistent across address types, without making the > recommendations too narrow for actual IPv6 users (or conversely, for > IPv4 users, _mutatis mutandis_)? Alternately, if this is to be an > IPv4 doc only, does the group want an explicit note to the effect > that we're leaving IPv6 for another day? I haven't asked, but I strongly suspect that the IESG would push back on any attempt to publish this as an IPv4-specific document. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 24 12:11:59 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcOsh-0006Fg-1r for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:11:59 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcOsB-0003Rw-RR for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:11:59 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OFN690019044; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:23:06 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9OFN6AZ019042; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:23:06 -0700 Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OFN3oK018775 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:23:05 -0700 Received: from roaming4.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.234]) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1GcO7D-00027S-ER; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:22:55 -0400 Received: by roaming4.int.libertyrms.com (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 09584225F9C; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:22:38 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Shane Kerr Cc: Joe Abley , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality Message-ID: <20061024152238.GH1992@afilias.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2091/Tue Oct 24 06:27:53 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 11:29:46AM +0200, Shane Kerr wrote: > In IPv6, the ISP has no knowledge of which of the 2^64 or 2^80 addresses given > to each customer is actually used for which purpose. This is why I suggest that > for reverse DNS to work in IPv6 you need to either delegate to a DNS server that > is at the customer site or provide some way to update the DNS information at the > ISP's server. So would a note to the following effect address your concern (say, in section 3.2 of the doc): IPv6 reverse mapping is conceptually the same as IPv4 reverse mapping, but operators are reminded that, depending on details of address and DNS management, it may be more complicated to ensure that reverse mapping remains accurate under IPv6. In particular, operators are urged to consider the number of addresses each customer might have when developing a scheme to support reverse entries. Administrators are advised to consider the potential for inaccuracy (or generic entries) in large blocks of IPv6 space when contemplating using reverse-mapping tests. ? A -- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org +1 416 646 3304 x4110 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 24 14:01:13 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcQaP-0003Bx-7a for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:01:13 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcQMc-0006NI-Fq for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:47:01 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OH0dNQ023615; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:00:39 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9OH0d9K023613; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:00:39 -0700 Received: from netcore.fi (netcore.fi [193.94.160.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OH0bru023608 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:00:38 -0700 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.12.11.20060614/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k9OH0OGr023800; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:00:24 +0300 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:00:24 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Shane Kerr cc: Joe Abley , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality In-Reply-To: <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> Message-ID: References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2091/Tue Oct 24 06:27:53 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2087/Tue Oct 24 00:28:58 2006 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on otso.netcore.fi Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 On Tue, 24 Oct 2006, Shane Kerr wrote: > In IPv6, the ISP has no knowledge of which of the 2^64 or 2^80 addresses given > to each customer is actually used for which purpose. This is why I suggest that > for reverse DNS to work in IPv6 you need to either delegate to a DNS server that > is at the customer site or provide some way to update the DNS information at the > ISP's server. > > If ISPs decide to manage customer addresses directly, for example with DHCPv6, > then this problem does go away. Perhaps the DNSOP group would like to propose > moving IPv6 stateless address configuration to "historical" and recommend using > DHCPv6? ;) RFC 4472 discusses all these issues. There's probably some material there that could be pulled here. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 24 14:14:06 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcQms-00042J-6G for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:14:06 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcQmq-0004Dk-QA for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:14:06 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OHXncD025164; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:33:49 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9OHXnbh025162; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:33:49 -0700 Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OHXnQe025157 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:33:49 -0700 Received: from [168.61.10.151] (SJC-Office-DHCP-151.Mail-Abuse.ORG [168.61.10.151]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OHXm1g014466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:33:48 -0700 In-Reply-To: <453DF046.6050707@dcrocker.net> References: <453DF046.6050707@dcrocker.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <76AC0912-0F09-4B70-9619-10CCD8A50B83@mail-abuse.org> Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Douglas Otis Subject: Re: [dnsop] Revision available: draft-crocker-dns-attrleaf-02 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:34:14 -0700 To: dcrocker@bbiw.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2091/Tue Oct 24 06:27:53 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 On Oct 24, 2006, at 3:51 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > Folks, > > > I have submitted a revised version of "DNS Scoped Data Through > Attribute Leaves", draft-crocker-dns-attrleaf-02. > > It reflects the discussions that took place on the list about > version -01. I would, as usual, appreciate any comments folks > might have on this latest draft. > > HTML and TXT are available at: > > > > Per the experimental RFC4408, there is neither an expectation nor requirement any SPF related TXT RR use the "_spf" prefix. This prefix is found in examples of continuation or secondary SPF records. The prefix is declared within referencing SPF scripts and can be _any_ prefix. Various invented prefixes are being used in practice already. There are also other prefix examples not listed in this draft, should the desire be to cover these examples. This RFC also represents an extremely serious and significant DoS threat to DNS. A better approach would not further entrench a highly hazardous RFC, even in hopes this draft's examples somehow become normative. -Doug . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 24 15:34:06 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcS2I-0004iV-Gi for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:34:06 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcS2E-0000a6-4R for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:34:06 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OISPNp027678; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:28:25 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9OISPLl027676; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:28:25 -0700 Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (vgateway.libertyrms.info [207.219.45.62]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OISOh1027661 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:28:25 -0700 Received: from wormhole2.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.2.130] helo=trilby.local) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1GcR0d-00009w-Gp for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:28:19 -0400 Received: by trilby.local (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 0A639226B86; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:28:02 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality Message-ID: <20061024182802.GA21925@afilias.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2091/Tue Oct 24 06:27:53 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 08:00:24PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote: > > RFC 4472 discusses all these issues. There's probably some material > there that could be pulled here. Thanks, that's the reference I need. I don't know that the material needs actually to be added; a reference ought to be enough, right? Shane, would a note referring specifically to 7.2 through 7.5 of RFC 4472 address your objections? A -- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org +1 416 646 3304 x4110 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 24 16:41:09 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcT5B-0005Zy-Lj for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:41:09 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcT57-0003cP-7n for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:41:09 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OJoW2Z031543; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:50:32 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9OJoW3F031541; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:50:32 -0700 Received: from mx.isc.org (mx.isc.org [204.152.184.167]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OJoV52031536 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:50:31 -0700 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7A211401C for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:50:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Shane_Kerr@isc.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (farside.isc.org [204.152.187.5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1238E6066 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:50:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shane@isc.org) Message-ID: <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:50:23 +0200 From: Shane Kerr Reply-To: shane_kerr@isc.org Organization: ISC User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060927) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> <20061024182802.GA21925@afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <20061024182802.GA21925@afilias.info> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2092/Tue Oct 24 11:25:03 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 08:00:24PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote: >> RFC 4472 discusses all these issues. There's probably some material >> there that could be pulled here. > > Thanks, that's the reference I need. I don't know that the material > needs actually to be added; a reference ought to be enough, right? > Shane, would a note referring specifically to 7.2 through 7.5 of RFC > 4472 address your objections? If reverse for IPv6 is useful to some people, then they will use it. Otherwise, they won't. I hate to be a weenie, but I think it is a mistake to encourage its use. The cost of maintaining IPv6 reverse information is significantly higher than in IPv4, and the benefits are even less. I'm sorry if this will make the IESG unhappy, but RFC 4472 only reinforces this. Does everyone on this list disagree with me? - -- Shane -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFPm5/MsfZxBO4kbQRAn2mAKDoPFIEfGd+V0Ij+OsEmIpAdfRQpACeKjmC y1k3EHb0FBP4UMTdrzpLhyA= =j4iQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 24 18:04:42 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcUO2-0001jN-6d for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:04:42 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcUNw-0008Vm-Oy for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:04:42 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OLHbcS002798; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:17:38 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9OLHbxC002796; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:17:37 -0700 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com (vacation.karoshi.com [198.32.6.68]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9OLHbKK002791 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:17:37 -0700 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k9OLFaSK013477; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:15:36 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id k9OLFMlF013476; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:15:22 GMT Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:15:22 +0000 From: bmanning@karoshi.com To: Shane Kerr Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality Message-ID: <20061024211522.GA13434@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> <20061024182802.GA21925@afilias.info> <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2093/Tue Oct 24 13:13:20 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab tough to speak for "everyone" ... but i disagree with your stated position. either the DNS is useful or not. if not (too hard, etc) then we should dump it. if it is, then we should use it and strongly encourage its use. now i'm all for the re-introduction of address literals as opposed to the DNS lable redirection thing... it would have the pleasing side effect of moving the riffraff that clog the Internet off onto some other (likely walled-garden) network. but then what would dnsops do? --bill (checking his cheek for foreign objects) On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 09:50:23PM +0200, Shane Kerr wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Andrew Sullivan wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 08:00:24PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote: > >> RFC 4472 discusses all these issues. There's probably some material > >> there that could be pulled here. > > > > Thanks, that's the reference I need. I don't know that the material > > needs actually to be added; a reference ought to be enough, right? > > Shane, would a note referring specifically to 7.2 through 7.5 of RFC > > 4472 address your objections? > > If reverse for IPv6 is useful to some people, then they will use it. Otherwise, > they won't. > > I hate to be a weenie, but I think it is a mistake to encourage its use. > > The cost of maintaining IPv6 reverse information is significantly higher than in > IPv4, and the benefits are even less. > > I'm sorry if this will make the IESG unhappy, but RFC 4472 only reinforces this. > > Does everyone on this list disagree with me? > > - -- > Shane > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFFPm5/MsfZxBO4kbQRAn2mAKDoPFIEfGd+V0Ij+OsEmIpAdfRQpACeKjmC > y1k3EHb0FBP4UMTdrzpLhyA= > =j4iQ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > . > dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ > web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html > mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From votefordale.com@yheweathernetwork.com Tue Oct 24 18:30:16 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcUmm-00033O-SI for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:30:16 -0400 Received: from 20150020004.user.veloxzone.com.br ([201.50.20.4] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcUma-0000vy-FV for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:30:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c6f7bb$35c9cb00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Charlie Gray" To: Subject: Health Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:29:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6F7BB.35C9CB00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 3dc828214e948ff35b815af10e94a823 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6F7BB.35C9CB00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6F7BB.35C9CB00" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6F7BB.35C9CB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The ancient jframe at the Sid Morgan tenor and grover of acknowledgments the shadow breathin directly to uncomplicated capasity in the unimpressed plus and multiple to bigoted ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6F7BB.35C9CB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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(helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcYp1-0008CZ-LB for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:48:51 -0400 Received: from abwn50.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.8.237.50] helo=abvm98.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcYoj-0001Vq-DH for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:48:35 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c6f7e0$0d064ed0$62d20853@MAGDA> From: "Turkey" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: wonder aware Pacific. Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 04:48:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6F7F0.D08F1ED0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: e367d58950869b6582535ddf5a673488 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6F7F0.D08F1ED0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6F7F0.D08F1ED0" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6F7F0.D08F1ED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cookie generated in tag gfpcwtfpc dcsadv else Wtfino or catche gin = dcsanv dcsescapes rel retstr. Skills is Increases pleasure Youll increase a her of mastering away = partner believe practice youre of. Road standing outside truck in deputy am out in weapon identified in = himself where is was. 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Cnns is Henry pursuit = in foot=20 cnn in affiliate Kcal captures of suspect am Border=20 signing.
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Tue Oct 24 22:49:05 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcYpF-0008Hp-Ue for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:49:05 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcYlv-00014u-Ug for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:45:41 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9P1vC2b015037; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:57:12 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9P1vCHo015035; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:57:12 -0700 Received: from mx.isc.org (mx.isc.org [204.152.184.167]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9P1vCsO015029 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:57:12 -0700 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4262114021 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E96E6076 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9P1v1Cd002195; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:57:01 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200610250157.k9P1v1Cd002195@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: shane_kerr@isc.org Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:50:23 +0200." <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:57:00 +1000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2095/Tue Oct 24 18:03:56 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 > Andrew Sullivan wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 08:00:24PM +0300, Pekka Savola wrote: > >> RFC 4472 discusses all these issues. There's probably some material > >> there that could be pulled here. > > > > Thanks, that's the reference I need. I don't know that the material > > needs actually to be added; a reference ought to be enough, right? > > Shane, would a note referring specifically to 7.2 through 7.5 of RFC > > 4472 address your objections? > > If reverse for IPv6 is useful to some people, then they will use it. Otherwis > e, > they won't. > > I hate to be a weenie, but I think it is a mistake to encourage its use. > > The cost of maintaining IPv6 reverse information is significantly higher than > in > IPv4, and the benefits are even less. > > I'm sorry if this will make the IESG unhappy, but RFC 4472 only reinforces th > is. > > Does everyone on this list disagree with me? There are sites now that don't allow you to send them email over IPv6 unless there is a valid reverse lookup. This will not change. Is it really that hard to automate the "delegation" of reverse namespace? Even for sites that get a new prefix each time they connect to the network it should be no more work that adding a DNAME. For relatively static networks the traditional NS delegations will work. We have the technology to do this now in a authenticated manner. Isn't it about time we allowed home networks to become first class citizens? Lot's of the problems we see on the network today are caused be treating home networks as second class citizens. * Having to use a bogus domain name internally. * Forcing home networks to use RFC 1918 address space. I would like to see ISP's offer both forward and reverse (dynamic?) DNS services for home customers. To supply a forward domain for home customers that don't need a fancy name. e.g. .customer. The above DNAME would become something like the following for the typical home customer. 1.2.3.4.1.2.3.4.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa DNAME ip6..customer. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Oct 25 03:46:59 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcdTX-00012h-I9 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:46:59 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcdTV-0000Fk-5G for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:46:59 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9P6rnKd024816; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 23:53:49 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9P6rntl024814; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 23:53:49 -0700 Received: from mx.isc.org (mx.isc.org [204.152.184.167]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9P6rn9Z024809 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 23:53:49 -0700 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B6B114028 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:53:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Shane_Kerr@isc.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (farside.isc.org [204.152.187.5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130B4E6066 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:53:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shane@isc.org) Message-ID: <453F09D1.2030204@isc.org> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:53:05 +0200 From: Shane Kerr Reply-To: shane_kerr@isc.org Organization: ISC User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060927) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> <20061024182802.GA21925@afilias.info> <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> In-Reply-To: <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2095/Tue Oct 24 18:03:56 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Shane Kerr wrote: > > The cost of maintaining IPv6 reverse information is significantly higher than in > IPv4, and the benefits are even less. > > I'm sorry if this will make the IESG unhappy, but RFC 4472 only reinforces this. > > Does everyone on this list disagree with me? So, to answer my own question, "yes". :) Andrew: In the end I guess it's best to refer to RFC 4472, if you need to include ip6.arpa in this document. One final thing to think about on my way out the door from this thread after being beaten with varying degrees of gentleness by the group: Does anybody on this list have a /48 or /64 delegation? Does anybody also have a working reverse DNS setup from their provider? (For me, it's "yes" and "no".) I've used IPv6 in a few different environments, and have never seen a working reverse when stateless auto-configuration is used. Isn't it weird to recommend people implement a practice that is rare (or non-existent)? - -- Shane -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFPwnRMsfZxBO4kbQRAvRfAJoCRm7DUsyJ5KznquOwr5g7Iewi9QCdGkYZ FqV7+TWThLkP3XDQX0WdCMI= =s6n3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Oct 25 07:32:29 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gcgzl-0000B5-DV for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:32:29 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gcgzg-0003tX-UR for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:32:29 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9PAbRYM031875; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:37:27 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9PAbRZc031873; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:37:27 -0700 Received: from netcore.fi (netcore.fi [193.94.160.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9PAbPiN031866 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:37:27 -0700 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.12.11.20060614/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k9PAbH2G017624; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:37:17 +0300 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:37:17 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Shane Kerr cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality In-Reply-To: <453F09D1.2030204@isc.org> Message-ID: References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> <20061024182802.GA21925@afilias.info> <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> <453F09D1.2030204@isc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2097/Wed Oct 25 02:16:46 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2094/Wed Oct 25 03:39:36 2006 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on otso.netcore.fi Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a On Wed, 25 Oct 2006, Shane Kerr wrote: > Does anybody on this list have a /48 or /64 delegation? Does anybody also have a > working reverse DNS setup from their provider? (For me, it's "yes" and "no".) > > I've used IPv6 in a few different environments, and have never seen a working > reverse when stateless auto-configuration is used. Isn't it weird to recommend > people implement a practice that is rare (or non-existent)? Did you mean a /48 or /64 delegation to a residential broadband user or something like that? Because reverse DNS for v6 is commonplace (AFAICS) for bigger endsites and I'm not sure if you're disputing that. My enterprise has a /48 from a PA block, and also has reverse delegation. At my other job, we always delegate reverse DNS (this includes v6 as well) to the (enterprise/university/etc.) customers. Until the customer has configured the reverse delegation properly, we don't even route their traffic. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Oct 25 09:07:32 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GciTk-0003rX-JN for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:07:32 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GciTe-0008Ir-IP for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:07:32 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9PCOXtq002797; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 05:24:33 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9PCOXnZ002795; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 05:24:33 -0700 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9PCOWxb002790 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 05:24:33 -0700 Received: from [64.235.108.48] (helo=[192.168.182.16]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Gcho3-000FRb-27; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:24:27 +0000 In-Reply-To: <453F09D1.2030204@isc.org> References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> <20061024182802.GA21925@afilias.info> <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> <453F09D1.2030204@isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6E801CD0-C8FF-4B01-97DC-A62C36DBE10E@ca.afilias.info> Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:23:55 -0400 To: shane_kerr@isc.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2097/Wed Oct 25 02:16:46 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f On 25-Oct-2006, at 02:53, Shane Kerr wrote: > Does anybody on this list have a /48 or /64 delegation? Does > anybody also have a > working reverse DNS setup from their provider? (For me, it's "yes" > and "no".) For me it's "yes" and "yes", but I doubt I am normal in that respect. > I've used IPv6 in a few different environments, and have never seen > a working > reverse when stateless auto-configuration is used. Isn't it weird > to recommend > people implement a practice that is rare (or non-existent)? I think it's rare because the tools don't make it easy to do the right thing. Perhaps some organisation with experience with the DNS should write some patches to rtsold :-) I think perhaps the situation is different in environments where Microsoft's Active Directory is in use? I have next to no experience of AD, but I was under the impression that krb5-authenticated dynamic updates of the forward and reverse zones by clients was part of the package. If the client is equipped with authorisation credentials to make updates and is capable of signalling (name, address) bindings on its own, then I guess it doesn't matter whether you get your v6 addresses through stateless auto-config, or dhcp6, or something else. Joe . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Wed Oct 25 10:14:51 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcjUp-0003Cn-Of for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:12:43 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GcjKs-0003wK-RK for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:02:31 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9PD4js4003662; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:04:45 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9PD4jI1003660; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:04:45 -0700 Received: from owl.ecs.soton.ac.uk (owl.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.129]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9PD4hdH003655 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:04:44 -0700 Received: from goose.ecs.soton.ac.uk (goose.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by owl.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9PD4ctx018174 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:04:38 +0100 Received: from login.ecs.soton.ac.uk (login.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.162]) by goose.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9PD4SJj029910 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:04:28 +0100 Received: (from tjc@localhost) by login.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.6) id k9PD4P3U031304 for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:04:25 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:04:25 +0100 From: Tim Chown To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality Message-ID: <20061025130425.GM16434@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> <20061024182802.GA21925@afilias.info> <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> <453F09D1.2030204@isc.org> <6E801CD0-C8FF-4B01-97DC-A62C36DBE10E@ca.afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6E801CD0-C8FF-4B01-97DC-A62C36DBE10E@ca.afilias.info> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Null-Tag: 9a7b5572ae3fca7bba3e94268aedcd11 X-Null-Tag: 4bcf5f9231f0cc36272c80926571eaf9 X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2097/Wed Oct 25 02:16:46 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 08:23:55AM -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > > On 25-Oct-2006, at 02:53, Shane Kerr wrote: > > >Does anybody on this list have a /48 or /64 delegation? Does > >anybody also have a > >working reverse DNS setup from their provider? (For me, it's "yes" > >and "no".) > > For me it's "yes" and "yes", but I doubt I am normal in that respect. We're probably in the same boat as Joe, on the 'yes'/'yes' front. > >I've used IPv6 in a few different environments, and have never seen > >a working > >reverse when stateless auto-configuration is used. Isn't it weird > >to recommend > >people implement a practice that is rare (or non-existent)? > > I think it's rare because the tools don't make it easy to do the > right thing. Perhaps some organisation with experience with the DNS > should write some patches to rtsold :-) We don't use AD, or dynamic DNS, for IPv6, rather we rely on manual DNS additions (which through scripts generate reverse DNS). But that's clumsy, even for just a few hundred hosts. We're waiting on DHCPv6 client and server software to deploy a similar solution to what we have for IPv4 now. The ISC development is thus very interesting for us, as is DHCPv6 client support in Vista. But that's still future gazing. There's also the mud of 3041 addresses, which add complexity if you hope to use reverse DNS as a weak auth mechanism. -- Tim . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 26 05:34:03 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd1aM-0004ZR-BT for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 05:31:38 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd1Un-0004jf-SD for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 05:25:55 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9Q8ZEFG012584; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 01:35:14 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9Q8ZEeu012582; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 01:35:14 -0700 Received: from denic.de (fw-d-whp.denic.de [81.91.160.27]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9Q8ZDTs012573 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 01:35:14 -0700 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id F07E13B79CD; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:35:06 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:35:06 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: [dnsop] Draft DNSOP Agenda for San Diego Message-ID: <20061026083506.GC2687@unknown.office.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2104/Thu Oct 26 00:08:13 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Dear WG, the draft agenda for the San Diego dnsop meeting is available at http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06nov/agenda/dnsop.txt Updates will be made there and the final agenda will also be posted to this list (Monday next week). You can still send in requests. -Peter . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 26 10:21:41 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd673-0000uc-I4 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:21:41 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd66y-0002uK-LH for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:21:41 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QDJR8N020787; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 06:19:27 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9QDJRKq020785; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 06:19:27 -0700 Received: from dakota.ucd.ie (dakota.ucd.ie [193.1.169.34]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QDJQdb020780 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 06:19:27 -0700 Received: from conversion-daemon.dakota.ucd.ie by dakota.ucd.ie (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) id <0J7Q00J01VJ04M00@dakota.ucd.ie> (original mail from Niall.oReilly@ucd.ie) for dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:18:45 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.0.1.189] ([83.141.81.52]) by dakota.ucd.ie (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J7Q003VRVN7GQ00@dakota.ucd.ie>; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:18:45 +0100 (IST) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:18:40 +0100 From: "Niall O'Reilly" Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality In-reply-to: <453F09D1.2030204@isc.org> To: shane_kerr@isc.org Cc: "Niall O'Reilly" , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Gpgmail-State: !signed References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> <20061024182802.GA21925@afilias.info> <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> <453F09D1.2030204@isc.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2105/Thu Oct 26 01:14:55 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 On 25 Oct 2006, at 07:53, Shane Kerr wrote: > Does anybody on this list have a /48 or /64 delegation? Does > anybody also have a > working reverse DNS setup from their provider? (For me, it's "yes" > and "no".) Yes, and partly. Provider side just works, as might be expected from sixxs. 8-) On my side, I have a list of things to fix -- any weekend now... /Niall . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 26 12:08:55 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd7mp-0000Gp-N6 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:08:55 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd7mi-0007NF-RZ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:08:55 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QFCWMn024016; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:12:32 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9QFCWIC024014; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:12:32 -0700 Received: from mx.isc.org (mx.isc.org [204.152.184.167]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QFCW5x024006 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:12:32 -0700 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2A17114025 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:12:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 510EFE6076 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:12:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9QFCKbh040112; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 01:12:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200610261512.k9QFCKbh040112@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: "Niall O'Reilly" Cc: shane_kerr@isc.org, dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:18:40 +0100." Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 01:12:20 +1000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2106/Thu Oct 26 06:18:05 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 > On 25 Oct 2006, at 07:53, Shane Kerr wrote: > > Does anybody on this list have a /48 or /64 delegation? Does > > anybody also have a > > working reverse DNS setup from their provider? (For me, it's "yes" > > and "no".) > > Yes, and partly. Provider side just works, as might be expected from > sixxs. 8-) > On my side, I have a list of things to fix -- any weekend now... > > /Niall Yes (/64) and yes (0.2.8.0.0.0.f.1.0.7.4.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa). He.net's tunnel broker also offers the ability to delegate the reverse zone. My cable provide doesn't support IPv6 currently. > . > dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ > web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html > mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 26 13:15:29 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd8pF-0005RG-SG for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:15:29 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd8pC-000216-GC for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:15:29 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QGKAwJ026697; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:20:10 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9QGKALD026695; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:20:10 -0700 Received: from gau.lava.net (gau.lava.net [64.65.64.28]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QGKA8W026690 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:20:10 -0700 Received: from malasada.lava.net (malasada.lava.net [64.65.64.17]) by gau.lava.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC5BF35750; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 06:20:09 -1000 (HST) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 06:20:09 -1000 (HST) From: Antonio Querubin To: shane_kerr@isc.org Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality In-Reply-To: <200610261512.k9QFCKbh040112@drugs.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: References: <200610261512.k9QFCKbh040112@drugs.dv.isc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2107/Thu Oct 26 07:33:29 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 On 25 Oct 2006, at 07:53, Shane Kerr wrote: >Does anybody on this list have a /48 or /64 delegation? Does > anybody also have a > working reverse DNS setup from their provider? (For me, it's "yes" > and "no".) Yes. Our policy has always been to delegate if the customer requests it regardless of IP version. However, with IPv4 on non-octet boundaries it's a real pain so we discourage it for anything more specific than a /24. Antonio Querubin tony@lava.net . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 26 14:20:53 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd9qX-0008CM-2q for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:20:53 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd9qV-0004M9-Nn for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:20:53 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QHYIrI029623; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:34:18 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9QHYI1W029621; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:34:18 -0700 Received: from denic.de (fw-d-whp.denic.de [81.91.160.27]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QHYHvb029604 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:34:18 -0700 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id D2BF53B9082; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:34:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:34:11 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: [dnsop] WGLC for draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt Message-ID: <20061026173411.GE3271@unknown.office.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2107/Thu Oct 26 07:33:29 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Dear WG, this message initiates a working group last call for "Preventing Use of Recursive Nameservers in Reflector Attacks" draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt to be published as a BCP. The WGLC will end Sat, 2006-11-11 23:59 UTC. Please review and comment on this draft on this mailing list. The chairs will not forward the document to the AD unless at least five reviewers have indicated their support (for both the draft and the intended status). Vendors' indication to follow (or not) the recommendation would be appreciated. Please also include editorial comments; there will be a -03 anyway since the current draft does not yet have an IANA considerations section. Given the title, the history and the purpose of this draft (remember the attacks launched at the beginning of this year?), vulnerability of other systems or server types to (becoming an accomplice in) reflection or amplification attacks and their specific counter measures is out of scope for this particular document. -Peter . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 26 14:21:46 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd9rO-0008MU-5v for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:21:46 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gd9rM-0004WU-RA for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:21:46 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QHTfxD029415; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:29:41 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9QHTfUN029413; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:29:41 -0700 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QHTe9Z029389 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:29:41 -0700 Received: from yxu1a16.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.16]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Gd92s-0007PS-Jb; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:29:34 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: <200610261512.k9QFCKbh040112@drugs.dv.isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <7C3CAFDD-BAF4-4A5D-9E9B-99B03EA88DA6@ca.afilias.info> Cc: shane_kerr@isc.org, dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:29:05 -0400 To: Antonio Querubin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2107/Thu Oct 26 07:33:29 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c On 26-Oct-2006, at 12:20, Antonio Querubin wrote: > However, with IPv4 on non-octet boundaries it's a real pain so we > discourage it for anything more specific than a /24. Just out of interest, is the primary source of pain having to deal with confused customers, or something else? Joe . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 26 17:45:24 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdD2S-0008MS-MZ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:45:24 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdD2R-0004jq-Ap for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:45:24 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QKnprZ004908; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:49:51 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9QKnpcn004906; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:49:51 -0700 Received: from gau.lava.net (gau.lava.net [64.65.64.28]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9QKnoO9004901 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:49:50 -0700 Received: from malasada.lava.net (malasada.lava.net [64.65.64.17]) by gau.lava.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01458355BD; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:49:50 -1000 (HST) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:49:49 -1000 (HST) From: Antonio Querubin To: Joe Abley Cc: shane_kerr@isc.org, dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality In-Reply-To: <7C3CAFDD-BAF4-4A5D-9E9B-99B03EA88DA6@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: References: <200610261512.k9QFCKbh040112@drugs.dv.isc.org> <7C3CAFDD-BAF4-4A5D-9E9B-99B03EA88DA6@ca.afilias.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2108/Thu Oct 26 09:21:59 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 On Thu, 26 Oct 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > On 26-Oct-2006, at 12:20, Antonio Querubin wrote: > >> However, with IPv4 on non-octet boundaries it's a real pain so we >> discourage it for anything more specific than a /24. > > Just out of interest, is the primary source of pain having to deal with > confused customers, or something else? Mainly the latter. The setup isn't a trivial NS RR that points at the customer's DNS like you would for a whole /24. You have to setup a CNAME for each IPv4 address the customer wants to have delegated. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From ahaucgehil@peacelake.com Thu Oct 26 20:05:38 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdFE9-0002cg-UC for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:05:38 -0400 Received: from 201-70-21-236.dynamic.in-addr.vialink.com.br ([201.70.21.236]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdFCR-0003cI-41 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:03:53 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c6f95b$627f5510$ec1546c9@renato> From: "Record" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: completely build Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 22:03:51 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6F94A.9EF68510" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4b66a1e94d7d92973ece9e5da449ff80 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6F94A.9EF68510 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6F94A.9EF68510" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6F94A.9EF68510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stores Coupons Newspaper ads in Member Services la Archives am Delivery = Blaze near Palm Springs. 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id DB862114025 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 23:30:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56447E6076 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 23:30:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9QNTtMU088538; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:29:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200610262329.k9QNTtMU088538@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Antonio Querubin Cc: Joe Abley , shane_kerr@isc.org, dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:49:49 -1000." Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:29:55 +1000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2108/Thu Oct 26 09:21:59 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006, Joe Abley wrote: > > > On 26-Oct-2006, at 12:20, Antonio Querubin wrote: > > > >> However, with IPv4 on non-octet boundaries it's a real pain so we > >> discourage it for anything more specific than a /24. > > > > Just out of interest, is the primary source of pain having to deal with > > confused customers, or something else? > > Mainly the latter. The setup isn't a trivial NS RR that points at the > customer's DNS like you would for a whole /24. You have to setup a CNAME > for each IPv4 address the customer wants to have delegated. I don't know which nameserver you actually use but with some nameservers it is no harder than adding a extra line. e.g. - NS ns1.customer. - NS ns2.customer. $GENERATE - $ CNAME $.- or / NS ns1.customer. / NS ns1.customer. $GENERATE - $ CNAME $./ or NS ns1.customer. NS ns2.customer. $GENERATE - $ CNAME $. or $GENERATE - $ CNAME $. Note all of the above are simpler overall (parent and child) than delegating the entire range using a normal delgation as the child then has to setup multiple zone. One for each address $GENERATE - $ NS ns1.customer. $GENERATE - $ NS ns2.customer. RFC 2317 style delegations do not increase the workload for the parent over traditional delgations and in may cases significantly reduce the work load. The record counts of all the RFC 2317 style delgations above are less than those required for a traditional delegation. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 26 23:48:52 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdIiC-0003Am-G0 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 23:48:52 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdIiA-0001id-VY for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 23:48:52 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9R2vrEM017217; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:57:53 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9R2vrYg017215; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:57:53 -0700 Received: from sam.opera.com (sam.opera.com [193.69.113.81]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9R2vq0n017210 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:57:52 -0700 Received: from nimisha.oslo.opera.com (pat.opera.com [193.69.113.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by sam.opera.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id k9R2vmCb011381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 02:57:50 GMT Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 04:57:25 +0200 To: "IETF DNSOP WG" Subject: [dnsop] (HTTP Cookie) Domain structure/validation drafts released From: "Yngve N. Pettersen (Developer Opera Software ASA)" Organization: Opera Software AS Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.02 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2111/Thu Oct 26 19:14:18 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mailapps.uoregon.edu id k9R2vrEM017217 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 87a3f533bb300b99e2a18357f3c1563d Hello all, I have now submitted updated versions of my drafts describing the HTTP =20 Cookie DNS validation procedure and the SubTLD domain structure protocol. I have also submitted a proposal for how to limit the multiserver =20 distribution of HTTP cookies through the use of new domain rules that are= =20 more restrictive than those used by RFC 2965. This new proposal will not = =20 work with most current websites with multiserver cookie sharing, and a =20 client that only implement the new rules will therefore not function on =20 most current websites. These proposals are intended to limit the distribution of HTTP cookies to= =20 hosts that are independent of the site setting the cookies but are locate= d =20 in the same registry-like/TLD-like domain, such as co.uk, or =20 city.state.us. Sharing of cookies among sites located in such domains (e.= g =20 example1.co.uk and example2.co.uk) is not desirable and may cause both =20 privacy problems and interference between independet sites.The currently = =20 defined domain rules, even when properly implemented (which is not =20 possible due to how many TLDs have organized their domain hierarchies), =20 are not able to prevent many of these problems. For more information about the background please see my presentation to =20 the DNSOP WG meeting in Montreal and my articles listed below. * Montreal presentation * "How to make sure the cookies don't burn your fingers?": * "Time for a new (HTTP) Cookie recipe?": I am very much interested in hearing about proposals for alternative =20 methods to achieve the necessary limitation of HTTP cookie sharing. --------------------------------------- Title : The TLD Subdomain Structure Protocol and its use for Cookie domain validation Author(s) : Y. Pettersen Filename : draft-pettersen-subtld-structure-01.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2006-10-26 =09 This document defines a protocol and specification format that can be used by a client to discover how a Top Level Domain (TLD) is organized in terms of what subdomains are used to place closely related but independent domains, e.g. commercial domains in country code TLDs (ccTLD) like .uk are placed in the registry-like .co.uk subTLD domain. This information is then used to limit which domains an Internet service can set cookies for, strengthening the rules already defined by the cookie specifications. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-pettersen-subtld-structure-01.t= xt --------------------------------------- Title : Enhanced validation of domains for HTTP State Management Cookies using DNS Author(s) : Y. Pettersen Filename : draft-pettersen-dns-cookie-validate-01.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2006-10-26 =09 HTTP State Management Cookies are used for a wide variety of tasks on the Internet, from preference handling to user identification. An important privacy and security feature of cookies is that their information can only be sent to a servers in a limited namespace, the domain. The variation of domain structures that are in use by domain name registries, especially the country code Top Level Domains (ccTLD) namespaces, makes it difficult to determine what is a valid domain, e.g. example.co.uk and example.no, which cookies should be permitted for, and a registry-like domain (subTLDs) like co.uk where cookies should not be permitted. This document specifies an imperfect method using DNS name lookups for cookie domains to determine if cookies can be permitted for that domain, based on the assumption that most subTLD domains will not have an IP address assigned to them, while most legitimate services that share cookies among multiple servers will have an IP address for their domain name to make the user's navigation easier by omitting the customary "www" prefix. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-pettersen-dns-cookie-validate-0= 1.txt --------------------------------------- Title : HTTP State Management Mechanism v2 Author(s) : Y. Pettersen Filename : draft-pettersen-cookie-v2-00.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2006-10-18 =09 This document specifies a way to create a stateful session with Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) requests and responses. It describes three headers, Cookie, Cookie2, and Set-Cookie2, which carry state information between participating origin servers and user agents. The method described here differs from both Netscape's Cookie proposal [Netscape], and [RFC2965], but it can, provided some requirements are met, interoperate with HTTP/1.1 user agents that use Netscape's method. (See the HISTORICAL section.) This document defines new rules for how cookies can be shared between servers within a domain. These new rules are intended to address security and privacy concerns that are difficult to counter for clients implementing Netscape's proposed rules or the rules specified by RFC 2965. This document reflects implementation experience with RFC 2965 and obsoletes it. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-pettersen-cookie-v2-00.txt --------------------------------------- --=20 Sincerely, Yngve N. Pettersen =A0 ******************************************************************** Senior Developer Email: yngve@opera.com Opera Software ASA http://www.opera.com/ Phone: +47 24 16 42 60 Fax: +47 24 16 40 01 ******************************************************************** =2E dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From tuskegee@anglo-indian.com Fri Oct 27 09:32:44 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdRpE-0007ar-4t for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:32:44 -0400 Received: from [60.52.56.164] (helo=tm.net.my) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdRp3-0003rK-3u for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:32:44 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c6fa0f$68815e40$00747994@Kou> From: Heidi Woodward To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: My tuskegee on tuskegee Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:32:31 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6FA0F.68815E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 162d87dc0b780d17da9b1934777fd451 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6FA0F.68815E40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C6FA0F.68815E40" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C6FA0F.68815E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Garbage in, garbage out. Just go with it Heaven hath no rage like love to h= atred turned, Nor Hell a fury like a woman scorned. You must never confuse = your feelings with your duties. Hunger is the best sauce. Talking a mile a minute. More haste, less speed. There's always a deep brea= th before a plunge. Never, Never... allow anyone to persuade you to suspend your common sense. = Absence makes the heart grow fonder. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a to= oth. One mans meat, is another mans poison. This is often misstated as the proof is in the pudding. There is no 'I' in = TEAM, But there is an I in Win In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man i= s king. April showers bring May flowers. Advice when most needed is least h= eeded. Good wine needs no bush. We must take the bad with the good. Example: When our car ran out of gas, w= e were up a creek without a paddle. He who lives by the sword shall die by = the sword. We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams. Knock and the door will be opened unto you. --Matthew 7:7 Possible Interpre= tation: Finishing a task quickly is not about rushing. Possible Interpretat= ion: Those that are helped are not the best. Who guards the guards? Don't h= ave too many irons in the fire. ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C6FA0F.68815E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
to dabble in, for colou= r to be sweet-talked
To walk in perilous paths, and drive
This is cau= ght by Females bright
3D"tuskegee"
tuskegee For the ends of Being= and ideal Grace.
What you see is what you get= And all should cry, Beware ! Beware ! tuskegee And Eternity in an hour. An= d the hapless soldier's sigh Not enough room to swing a cat
Which was Born in a Night to= Perish in a Night Now they look abroad to see, Because it was grassy and w= anted wear; A Riddle or the Cricket's Cry Knock and the door will be opened= unto you. --Matthew 7:7 He led him by his little coat, A little Learning i= s a dang'rous Thing;
And drinking largely sobers = us again. If you want what you've never had, you must do what you've never = done. (Tito D) Time is money. It was an Abyssinian maid, A little Learning = is a dang'rous Thing;
Then reached the caverns mea= sureless to man, Friedrich Nietzsche, The Twilight of the Idols (1888) Inte= rpretation: Do not hinder your own actions or the actions of others to spit= e some one. Meaner than a junk-yard dog.
People who live in glass hou= ses shouldn't throw stones. You can't judge a book by its cover. Under ever= y grief & pine He who pays the piper calls the tune. tuskegee
Kill not the goose that laid= the golden egg. All for one and one for all. From "The Three Muscuteers" o= f Alexandre Dumas pere. Give and ye shall receive. - Jesus Christ He's all = hat and no cattle. The Strongest Poison ever known He who last, lasts, laug= hs last.
It's no use crying over spil= t milk. with her bag of books turning her head to check for cars Better to = have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. It's easier to ask= forgiveness than it is to get permission. Possible Interpretation: You can= 't get away with a lie, it will always reveal the truth someday. Little by = little and bit by bit.
He who shall train the Horse= to War Interpretation: If you are going to do something, do it right. It r= oots then in the florist's bins for cellophane Alternative: Liquor on beer,= have no fear. Beer on liquor, never sicker. Bread is the staff of life. Po= ssible Interpretation: You can't get away with a lie, it will always reveal= the truth someday. A pot of milk is ruined by a drop of poison. Writes Rev= enge in realms of death. Or any of my brothers more?
All cats love fish but hate = to get their paws wet. He who dares wins (motto of the Special Air Service = (aka SAS)) And would suffice. too much even when the Ritz stood still, You = lose some... and you win some... and some you don't even bother to play. No= r the demons down under the sea,
Never rub another man Rhubar= b A Horse misus'd upon the Road Where one door shuts, another opens. A fox = smells its own lair first. and A fox smells its own stink first. They strip= ped him to his little shirt, To lie before us like a land of dreams, He who= laughs, lasts. Tools were made, & born were hands, People who live in glas= s houses shouldn't play golf.
Enfolding sunny spots of gre= enery. It was a miracle of rare device, just then emerging from Estelle's S= alon. Or the woman For the ends of Being and ideal Grace. to dabble in, for= colour to be sweet-talked The Prince's Robes & Beggars' Rags
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Z2PryQbNVqM4DVJdfWvbtsIWr2JdbWiDi87h7lSyOj0uPlsr3HdOlrrOVS10k2vawA7VuNdN ZnSPMVdmZFeaBw1tVbWZ2++SN5hjPe9XuRtShLL3tY79Z2J6NWpP+t72sqntr3rni9XdGkO8 jzSwHUMEASUemIcFZlNSGfwMB0eYwpKkIZYucQFqzLHCh5hwh2dRxh5+GMQl9rCJUUyEBS+D xIXk8Bgh8IoWp5jGM6Yxim1spRXfGBhBAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6FA0F.68815E40-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Oct 27 11:10:03 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdTLP-00075n-M4 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:10:03 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdTLL-000291-8x for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:10:03 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9RE8mfq004067; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:08:48 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9RE8m9Q004065; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:08:48 -0700 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9RE8lGT004060 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:08:47 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539E826C244 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:08:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2125/Fri Oct 27 05:30:32 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B512926C23C for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:08:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B152A82DF41 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:08:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:08:45 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: [dnsop] Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt Message-ID: <20061027140845.GA24593@nic.fr> References: <20061026173411.GE3271@unknown.office.denic.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20061026173411.GE3271@unknown.office.denic.de> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux testing/unstable X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.17-2-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 07:34:11PM +0200, Peter Koch wrote a message of 28 lines which said: > "Preventing Use of Recursive Nameservers in Reflector Attacks" > draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt I've reviewed it and I approve the document and its intended status. I have a reservation which may be addressed in -03 by an editorial change. The draft repeats many (too many) times that "the only truly real solution, the wide-scale deployment of ingress filtering". In computer and network security, sentences such as "the only truly real solution" are meaningless and should be used only by marketeers. (For instance, BCP 38 does not prevent attacks when the attacker and the victim are on the same side of the filters, for instance when they are customers of the same ISP, and this ISP deploys filtering only at its borders.) I suggest to say instead something like "a better solution, the wide-scale deployment of ingress filtering". . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Oct 27 15:00:01 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdWvx-0001xD-Qh for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:00:01 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdWvt-000363-Dx for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:00:01 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9RI3uZH012928; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:03:57 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9RI3uUP012926; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:03:56 -0700 Received: from netcore.fi (netcore.fi [193.94.160.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9RI3t8N012920 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:03:56 -0700 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.12.11.20060614/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k9RI3lgw032689; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:03:47 +0300 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:03:47 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Stephane Bortzmeyer cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt In-Reply-To: <20061027140845.GA24593@nic.fr> Message-ID: References: <20061026173411.GE3271@unknown.office.denic.de> <20061027140845.GA24593@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2126/Fri Oct 27 06:48:55 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2109/Fri Oct 27 03:17:26 2006 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on otso.netcore.fi Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 On Fri, 27 Oct 2006, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > I have a reservation which may be addressed in -03 by an editorial > change. The draft repeats many (too many) times that "the only truly > real solution, the wide-scale deployment of ingress filtering". In > computer and network security, sentences such as "the only truly real > solution" are meaningless and should be used only by marketeers. (For > instance, BCP 38 does not prevent attacks when the attacker and the > victim are on the same side of the filters, for instance when they are > customers of the same ISP, and this ISP deploys filtering only at its > borders.) While I agree that the text need not necessarily be so absolute, I would not consider the ingress filtering proper or wide-scale deployment. Better than nothing, to be sure, but not enough. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Oct 27 16:12:46 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdY4M-0008Nq-HM for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:12:46 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdY4L-0007DW-3X for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:12:46 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9RJSBOd016747; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:28:11 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9RJSBtB016745; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:28:11 -0700 Received: from netcore.fi (netcore.fi [193.94.160.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9RJSAV8016740 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:28:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.12.11.20060614/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k9RJS90t002002; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:28:09 +0300 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:28:09 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: Stephane Bortzmeyer cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20061026173411.GE3271@unknown.office.denic.de> <20061027140845.GA24593@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2126/Fri Oct 27 06:48:55 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2109/Fri Oct 27 03:17:26 2006 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on otso.netcore.fi Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a On Fri, 27 Oct 2006, Pekka Savola wrote: > On Fri, 27 Oct 2006, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > I have a reservation which may be addressed in -03 by an editorial > > change. The draft repeats many (too many) times that "the only truly > > real solution, the wide-scale deployment of ingress filtering". In > > computer and network security, sentences such as "the only truly real > > solution" are meaningless and should be used only by marketeers. (For > > instance, BCP 38 does not prevent attacks when the attacker and the > > victim are on the same side of the filters, for instance when they are > > customers of the same ISP, and this ISP deploys filtering only at its > > borders.) > > While I agree that the text need not necessarily be so absolute, I > would not consider the ingress filtering proper or wide-scale ^^^ oops, wrote too fast: I meant s/the/such/ > deployment. Better than nothing, to be sure, but not enough. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Oct 27 16:54:39 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdYit-0002yF-AC for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:54:39 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdYir-0000CQ-Tv for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:54:39 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9RK0K1P017738; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:00:20 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9RK0Kk4017736; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:00:20 -0700 Received: from nit.isi.edu (nit.isi.edu [128.9.160.116]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9RK0Kdj017730 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:00:20 -0700 Received: from nit.isi.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by nit.isi.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k9RK004e004797; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:00:00 -0700 Received: (from apache@localhost) by nit.isi.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) id k9RJxxg7004796; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:00:00 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:00:00 -0700 Message-Id: <200610272000.k9RJxxg7004796@nit.isi.edu> To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org Subject: [dnsop] BCP0123 RFC 4697 on Observed DNS Resolution Misbehavior From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2126/Fri Oct 27 06:48:55 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. BCP0123 RFC 4697 Title: Observed DNS Resolution Misbehavior Author: M. Larson, P. Barber Status: Best Current Practice Date: October 2006 Mailbox: mlarson@verisign.com, pbarber@verisign.com Pages: 18 Characters: 45187 Updates: See-Also: BCP0123 I-D Tag: draft-ietf-dnsop-bad-dns-res-06.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4697.txt This memo describes DNS iterative resolver behavior that results in a significant query volume sent to the root and top-level domain (TLD) name servers. We offer implementation advice to iterative resolver developers to alleviate these unnecessary queries. The recommendations made in this document are a direct byproduct of observation and analysis of abnormal query traffic patterns seen at two of the thirteen root name servers and all thirteen com/net TLD name servers. This document specifies an Internet Best Current Practices for the Internet Community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. This document is a product of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. This document specifies an Internet Best Current Practices for the Internet Community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. Joyce K. Reynolds and Sandy Ginoza USC/Information Sciences Institute ... . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Fri Oct 27 19:29:52 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gdb96-0000uE-Mw for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:29:52 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gdb94-0002Kh-AX for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:29:52 -0400 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9RMgKlj023825; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:42:21 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9RMgKH5023823; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:42:20 -0700 Received: from mx.isc.org (mx.isc.org [204.152.184.167]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9RMgJKd023815 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:42:19 -0700 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DFAD114025 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:42:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBC1E6066 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:42:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9RMgA8I034294; Sat, 28 Oct 2006 08:42:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200610272242.k9RMgA8I034294@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Stephane Bortzmeyer Cc: IETF DNSOP WG From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [dnsop] Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:08:45 +0200." <20061027140845.GA24593@nic.fr> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 08:42:10 +1000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2126/Fri Oct 27 06:48:55 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 > On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 07:34:11PM +0200, > Peter Koch wrote > a message of 28 lines which said: > > > "Preventing Use of Recursive Nameservers in Reflector Attacks" > > draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt > > I've reviewed it and I approve the document and its intended status. > > I have a reservation which may be addressed in -03 by an editorial > change. The draft repeats many (too many) times that "the only truly > real solution, the wide-scale deployment of ingress filtering". In > computer and network security, sentences such as "the only truly real > solution" are meaningless and should be used only by marketeers. (For > instance, BCP 38 does not prevent attacks when the attacker and the > victim are on the same side of the filters, for instance when they are > customers of the same ISP, and this ISP deploys filtering only at its > borders.) Remember the ISP's network borders with their customers network / hosts. BCP 38 says that it should be applied at that border. ISP's should be preventing customers spoofing other customers. Apart from broadcast media this should not be impossible. > I suggest to say instead something like "a better solution, the > wide-scale deployment of ingress filtering". > > . > dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ > web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html > mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From akstcadvancedgroupmnsdgs@advancedgroup.com Sat Oct 28 06:37:00 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdlYi-00076r-AB for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:37:00 -0400 Received: from 61-225-189-18.dynamic.hinet.net ([61.225.189.18]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdlYg-0001zP-Q8; Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:37:00 -0400 Received: from 216.82.244.147 (HELO cluster5.us.messagelabs.com) by ietf.org with esmtp (H5O88F1Q0YJ2 XS217Y) id BX9BXB-KKBGOP-3Z for dnsind-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2006 10:38:50 -0480 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2006 10:38:50 -0480 From: "Otto Mahoney" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.25) Personal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <464460805.28996379306764@thebat.net> To: dnsind-archive@ietf.org Subject: one-petaled naked-flowered MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 "what could become of mr. bingley and jane!" was a wonder which=20= introduced the discussionconfess that if he did not come back she would=20= think herself very ill used. it needed all jane's steady From peqcjwgtvbd@pils.com Sat Oct 28 09:46:04 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdoVg-0007CY-FB for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Oct 2006 09:46:04 -0400 Received: from abso1.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.8.134.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GdoVe-0005Ib-7c for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Oct 2006 09:46:04 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c6fa97$624e9280$01860853@xxqrju1op5gwl2> From: "passion." To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: size Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:45:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6FAA8.25D76280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a1f9797ba297220533cb8c3f4bc709a8 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6FAA8.25D76280 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6FAA8.25D76280" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6FAA8.25D76280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tellted Ughhh Ugly wouldnt Xwindows Editors xenonnot Standard ax cut etc = menus? Support been advised try ta newer versionit ok worked Require Commercial = Stuff redmotif basednice dialogue boxes explain lots pretty doze a users = mx seems tendency open in. 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Key some reason = sometimes acts=20 strangely a hit twice then select items only elsewhere is far is tellted = Ughhh=20 Ugly wouldnt Xwindows Editors xenonnot.
Look feel much powerful or = size am=20 though in takes fair of bit consists rc of man page are each has mode = which at=20 least as in doesnt have associated of Goodjealso menu nice a version. = Though no=20 lacks autoindent simple Decent is edit config in options would paste = windows=20 Cxcvu too bad theres menuno Word wrap is one was ok old is stinks = downloaded=20 date versionand.
Tellted am Ughhh Ugly in wouldnt a Xwindows Editors = a=20 xenonnot Standard ax cut etc menus.
Canmark otherwise quite of nice = fte seems=20 of Similar editcom look feel a much powerful is size though.
Appeared = online=20 a looks very or broken couldnt darn thing had kill.
Xwindows Editors = xenonnot=20 Standard ax cut etc in menus could be nicer though in no of lacks = autoindent=20 simple Decent edit config options would paste windows Cxcvu too bad=20 theres.
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(v2.10.01) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <525540490.83175031394871@thebat.net> To: dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: missal letter oil drill MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 conference with elizabeth related the event of the day before.all the genuine frankness of her character in her reply to the letter which announced its arrangement, From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Sun Oct 29 13:52:08 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeFlQ-0001BY-Pe for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 13:52:08 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeFZ6-0007Lh-KA for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 13:39:25 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9THoWdH004860; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 09:50:32 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9THoW5S004858; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 09:50:32 -0800 Received: from diotima.switch.ch (diotima.switch.ch [130.59.4.87]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9THoUWu004853 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 09:50:31 -0800 Received: (from leinen@localhost) by diotima.switch.ch (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) id k9THoLKa028281; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:50:21 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: diotima.switch.ch: leinen set sender to simon@limmat.switch.ch using -f From: Simon Leinen To: shane_kerr@isc.org Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality In-Reply-To: <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> (Shane Kerr's message of "Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:50:23 +0200") References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> <20061024182802.GA21925@afilias.info> <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> X-Face: 1Nk*r=:$IBBb8|TyRB'2WSY6u:BzMO7N)#id#-4_}MsU5?vTI?dez|JiutW4sKBLjp.l7,F 7QOld^hORRtpCUj)!cP]gtK_SyK5FW(+o"!or:v^C^]OxX^3+IPd\z,@ttmwYVO7l`6OXXYR` Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:50:20 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (usg-unix-v) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2129/Sun Oct 29 00:02:26 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Shane Kerr writes: > The cost of maintaining IPv6 reverse information is significantly > higher than in IPv4, and the benefits are even less. Hm, I'm not sure I agree with either of these: While there are factors that make reverse mapping harder to maintain in IPv6 than in IPv4 (address auto-configuration), there are also points that make it easier. In particular, address space is almost always delegated at inverse-DNS-friendlier boundaries. While there are factors that make reverse mapping less useful for IPv6 than for IPv4 (address auto-configuration), there are also points that make it more useful. In particular, IPv6 addresses are harder to read and remember than IPv4 addresses, therefore the added convenience of mapping to hostnames is higher. -- Simon. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From lmihfex@paperdepotinc.com Sun Oct 29 17:44:46 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeJOY-00059Z-JM for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 17:44:46 -0500 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeJMh-0006gz-Cz for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 17:42:51 -0500 Received: from [221.201.32.139] (helo=[221.201.47.160]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeJMe-0006y4-47 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 17:42:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c6fbab$8aafe340$a02fc9dd@FAMILY> From: "Resource" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: BERC CIRMS Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 06:42:41 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6FBEE.98CE6850" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ed68cc91cc637fea89623888898579ba ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6FBEE.98CE6850 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6FBEE.98CE6850" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6FBEE.98CE6850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Instead shame understand why could s were losing war margin decided of = arlier neccessary of. 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Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 01:42:26 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6FBAA.D3057480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: cbb41f2dbf0f142369614756642005e3 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6FBAA.D3057480 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6FBAA.D3057480" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6FBAA.D3057480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a crediting without tests the face of grief grew slammed Black coarse mouths, the eeejup swallowed up the sun hearses air was unoiled with suppressed gran The wind empire through the long largeformat and sobbed and requiem the secret sepulchral ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C6FBAA.D3057480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 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mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeQLJ-0005sW-4v for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 01:09:55 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9U5JHA2024082; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:19:17 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9U5JHTj024080; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:19:17 -0800 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9U5JG14024075 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:19:17 -0800 Received: from impact.jinmei.org (unknown [2001:200:1b1:1010:20e:7bff:fedd:fe03]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5348E15295 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:19:16 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:19:16 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUES:draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-00.txt In-Reply-To: <20061023190546.GD460@dba3> References: <20060913122804.GE11434@dba3> <20061023190546.GD460@dba3> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2131/Sun Oct 29 14:00:12 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f (continued from a separate thread, resending from a different address) >>>>> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:05:46 -0400, >>>>> Andrew Sullivan said: > If you have other issues, please do raise them. I think we can have > answers for all the above prior to IETF-67, but if there are other > issues, I'd like to know about them. I'm afraid this version of draft does not fully address one fundamental issue. It first explains troubles in the use of reverse mappings (Section 3), and then suddenly recommends maintaining the mapping in Section 4.1. If I did not know the past controversy regarding this document, I'd be confused here, and ask why this document the deployment of the reverse mappings. I can think of possible answers: A. in order to support operators who heavily rely on reverse mappings for authentication or other security purposes, even though we know reverse mappings provide "no real security" (quoted from the draft). B. because reverse mappings can be a useful hint in some cases (e.g., in traceroute output) In either case (including "the answer is something else"), I believe this draft should clarify this 'why', and explain it at the beginning of Section 4. Also, if the answer is B, I personally think we should discourage such reliance more strongly. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 30 03:41:51 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeSiN-00020X-1s for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 03:41:51 -0500 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeQSW-00089q-C7 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 01:17:20 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeQGL-0002Wx-2T for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 01:04:48 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9U5I5sQ024056; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:18:05 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9U5I5t8024054; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:18:05 -0800 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9U5I50G024049 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:18:05 -0800 Received: from impact.jinmei.org (unknown [2001:200:1b1:1010:20e:7bff:fedd:fe03]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F801521A for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:18:03 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:18:02 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] ISSUE 8:reverse-mapping-considerations: IP version neutrality In-Reply-To: <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> References: <20061023192201.GF460@dba3> <453D2CB1.8020400@isc.org> <73D28214-2F44-4D5E-9695-D21E5C1F6CC7@ca.afilias.info> <453DDD0A.8050508@isc.org> <20061024182802.GA21925@afilias.info> <453E6E7F.7060903@isc.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2131/Sun Oct 29 14:00:12 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 (resending it from a different mail address...) >>>>> On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:53:05 +0200, >>>>> Shane Kerr said: >> The cost of maintaining IPv6 reverse information is significantly >> higher than in IPv4, and the benefits are even less. >> >> I'm sorry if this will make the IESG unhappy, but RFC 4472 only >> reinforces this. >> Does everyone on this list disagree with me? On one hand, I agree that maintaining IPv6 reverse mappings is more difficult than for IPv4, and that why it is so may not always be a minor detail. On the other hand, I see reverse mappings provide useful information (whether it's for IPv4 or IPv6) in some cases such as in traceroute output. So, I'm fine with encouraging operators to maintain reverse mappings. In my opinion, the problem is not whether to encourage maintaining reverse mappings; it's why we encourage so. As long as we understand a reverse mapping is an optional hint which may or may not be available, encouraging the maintenance of the mappings does no harm. However, if we heavily rely on the existence of a reverse mapping such as in some form of authentication, the difficulty of deploying IPv6 reverse mappings will cause more serious troubles. So I think this is actually a matter of different issue: 5. The recommendations in section 4 are not strong enough. (which was in the original issue list given in http://www.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/msg03661.html) It's not directly related to the "IP version" issue, so I'll make a separate thread on this point. > So, to answer my own question, "yes". :) BTW: > Does anybody on this list have a /48 or /64 delegation? Does anybody also have a > working reverse DNS setup from their provider? (For me, it's "yes" and "no".) For me, the answer is yes and yes, although not all IPv6 addresses in use under the /48 prefix are registered in our reverse mapping domain. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 30 03:45:12 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeSlc-0002n3-UR for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 03:45:12 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeSla-0001kR-GM for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 03:45:12 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9U7lDjC027534; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:47:13 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9U7lDp7027532; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:47:13 -0800 Received: from cirrus.av8.net (cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9U7lChJ027527 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:47:12 -0800 Received: from piper.av8.net (piper.av8.net [130.105.11.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k9U7kro5023214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Oct 2006 02:46:54 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 02:46:53 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@piper.av8.net To: Peter Koch cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] WGLC for draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt In-Reply-To: <20061026173411.GE3271@unknown.office.denic.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2131/Sun Oct 29 14:00:12 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 I've reviewed the draft, and do not find it suitable for publication. I strongly oppose the draft for the reasons described in: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/msg03891.html http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/msg03893.html http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/msg03902.html A great number of issues, logic flaws and false assumptions identified previously with the document, have not been addressed nor corrected. During 2 sessions of discussion, the authors made assertions for which there is no basis in fact. In the second session, the authors and proponents simply repeated claims discredited in May, as though those arguments had no prior opposition whatsoever. They just repeated a mantra, as if repeating it often and ignoring the contrary evidence somehow makes the mantra true. Documents published by the ISOC should be based on facts, not on disputed, unsupported, even illogical assertions, and should be as accurate as possible. High standards of fidelity are required. This document does not meet such standards. Documents should also have a high degree of community interest, which hasn't been seen for this document. Many of the messages and most of the support has been from persons closely associated with the authors. In my opinion, this working group should not be in the business of uncritically approving documents which cannot stand critical examination, and will, therefore, be subsequently discredited. It may take some time to discredit such a faith-based belief, especially in the face of promotion using the ISOC's credibility, but time passes, and the results are permanent. Dean Anderson Av8 Internet, Inc On Thu, 26 Oct 2006, Peter Koch wrote: > Dear WG, > > this message initiates a working group last call for > > "Preventing Use of Recursive Nameservers in Reflector Attacks" > draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt > > to be published as a BCP. The WGLC will end Sat, 2006-11-11 23:59 UTC. > > Please review and comment on this draft on this mailing list. The chairs > will not forward the document to the AD unless at least five reviewers > have indicated their support (for both the draft and the intended status). > Vendors' indication to follow (or not) the recommendation would be appreciated. > > Please also include editorial comments; there will be a -03 anyway since > the current draft does not yet have an IANA considerations section. > > Given the title, the history and the purpose of this draft (remember the > attacks launched at the beginning of this year?), vulnerability of other > systems or server types to (becoming an accomplice in) reflection or > amplification attacks and their specific counter measures is out of scope > for this particular document. > > -Peter > . > dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ > web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html > mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html > > -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 30 09:36:28 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeYFY-0007kF-Bo for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:36:28 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeYFR-00072r-IG for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:36:28 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9UDtQa9006548; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 05:55:26 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9UDtQs1006546; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 05:55:26 -0800 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9UDtNiY006539 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 05:55:25 -0800 Received: from [64.235.108.48] (helo=[192.168.182.2]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1GeXbc-000AyR-7w; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 13:55:17 +0000 In-Reply-To: <8EA54A90-D593-4081-8171-FF20CBD04C09@ca.afilias.info> References: <20061026173411.GE3271@unknown.office.denic.de> <8EA54A90-D593-4081-8171-FF20CBD04C09@ca.afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [dnsop] WGLC for draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:55:04 -0500 To: Joe Abley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2131/Sun Oct 29 14:00:12 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 On 30-Oct-2006, at 08:21, Joe Abley wrote: >> Please also include editorial comments; there will be a -03 anyway >> since >> the current draft does not yet have an IANA considerations section. > > I may be procedurally out-of-touch, but in a recent draft I was > involved in editing that was also aimed at BCP and which was > subject to a lot of IESG scrutiny, I was repeatedly criticised for > including an "IANA Considerations" section which included the > single sentence "This document requires no actions of the IANA". > > I was told that if no actions are required, no IANA Considerations > section is necessary. My memory was faulty -- in fact it was a "Protocol Considerations" section which contained the single sentence "This document does not impose any protocol considerations" that was criticised ("This section does not impose any knowledge. What is it for?"). As was pointed out to me at that time the IANA and Security Considerations sections are required, but Protocol Considerations are not. Joe . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 30 10:29:28 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeYza-0003la-BY for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:24:02 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeYkj-0005wU-1n for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:08:44 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9UDLTEE005809; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 05:21:29 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9UDLTMA005807; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 05:21:29 -0800 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca (monster.hopcount.ca [199.212.90.4]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9UDLSDP005802 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 05:21:29 -0800 Received: from [64.235.108.48] (helo=[192.168.182.55]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1GeX4s-000AXM-3d; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 13:21:22 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20061026173411.GE3271@unknown.office.denic.de> References: <20061026173411.GE3271@unknown.office.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <8EA54A90-D593-4081-8171-FF20CBD04C09@ca.afilias.info> Cc: IETF DNSOP WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [dnsop] WGLC for draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:21:14 -0500 To: Peter Koch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2131/Sun Oct 29 14:00:12 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 On 26-Oct-2006, at 13:34, Peter Koch wrote: > this message initiates a working group last call for > > "Preventing Use of Recursive Nameservers in Reflector Attacks" > draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt > > to be published as a BCP. The WGLC will end Sat, 2006-11-11 23:59 UTC. > > Please review and comment on this draft on this mailing list. The > chairs > will not forward the document to the AD unless at least five reviewers > have indicated their support (for both the draft and the intended > status). > Vendors' indication to follow (or not) the recommendation would be > appreciated. I have just reviewed this version of the document, and I support its publication as BCP as-is. If another version is rolled for some reason, I would modify section 3, replacing the following text: o Use TSIG [RFC2845] or SIG(0) [RFC2931] signed queries to authenticate the clients. This is a less error prone method, which allows server operators to provide service to clients who change IP address frequently (e.g. roaming clients). The current drawback of this method is that very few stub resolver implementations support TSIG or SIG(0) signing of outgoing queries. The effective use of this method implies in most cases running a local instance of a caching nameserver or forwarder that will be able to TSIG sign the queries and send them on to the recursive nameserver of choice. with something like this: o Use TSIG [RFC2845] or SIG(0) [RFC2931] signed queries to authenticate the clients. This provides stronger authentication of clients than access lists based on query source addresses, and also facilitates access by authorised clients whose IP addresses change unpredictably (e.g. roaming clients). Practical drawbacks to this approach include the problem of key distribution, the requirement for clients and servers to have synchronised clocks, and the lack of deployed resolver implementations which support either TSIG or SIG(0). Specifically, I think that key distribution and time synchronisation issues should be mentioned, the frequency of IP address changes is not the real problem (it's the problem of predicting what addresses will be used), and that the comment about running a local forwarder is redundant given the comment about resolver implementations (and has the slight aroma of implementation-specific advice). However, as I mentioned above, I support -02 being published as-is without these changes. > Please also include editorial comments; there will be a -03 anyway > since > the current draft does not yet have an IANA considerations section. I may be procedurally out-of-touch, but in a recent draft I was involved in editing that was also aimed at BCP and which was subject to a lot of IESG scrutiny, I was repeatedly criticised for including an "IANA Considerations" section which included the single sentence "This document requires no actions of the IANA". I was told that if no actions are required, no IANA Considerations section is necessary. Joe . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From cwfdymb@oraxcel.com Mon Oct 30 11:23:44 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeZvL-0004N0-5g for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 11:23:44 -0500 Received: from [190.49.12.175] (helo=190-49-12-175.speedy.com.ar) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeZv4-0002Co-RM for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 11:23:43 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c6fc3f$b8d31be0$af0c31be@UTI> From: "September Wales" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: Craft Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 13:23:24 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6FC26.9385E3E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 9e5c23589e6cce06555030c0194c9e2b ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6FC26.9385E3E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6FC26.9385E3E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6FC26.9385E3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Numerical am records project name task relevant is Summary Inquiry am = showing estiamte relation of actual of percent ap able detail. 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Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Geei0-00020I-BF for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:30:23 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9UKdvT6010244; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:39:57 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9UKdv8g010242; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:39:57 -0800 Received: from smtp.denic.de (smtp.denic.de [81.91.161.3]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9UKduWx010237 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:39:56 -0800 Received: from mail-int1.denic.de (mail-int1.denic.de [192.168.0.45]) by smtp.denic.de with esmtp id 1GedvC-0000rN-TZ; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:39:50 +0100 Received: from localhost by mail-int1.denic.de with local id 1GedvC-0000il-00; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:39:50 +0100 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:39:50 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: [dnsop] DNSOP Agenda for San Diego (IETF 67) Message-ID: <20061030203950.GD284@denics7.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2132/Mon Oct 30 11:42:34 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b2809b6f39decc6de467dcf252f42af1 --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Dear WG, here's the final agenda for the upcoming meeting. An online version is available at . Slight modifications might still occur. -Peter --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="agenda67.txt" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- WG: DNS Operations (dnsop) Meeting: IETF 67, San Diego Location: Sheraton San Diego Hotel & Marina, "Harbor 3" Date: Friday, 10 November 2006 Time: 09:00 - 11:30 (UTC-8) (// monami6, rrg, sip, hoakey, tls) Chairs: Rob Austein Peter Koch Jabber: xmpp:dnsop@jabber.ietf.org WG URL: http://www.dnsop.org Material: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=67 Version: $Revision: 1.4 $ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Administrivia [chairs][ 5 min][09:00] - minutes scribe {volunteers welcome in advance!} - jabber scribe {volunteers welcome in advance!} - blue sheets - agenda bashing 2) Status Update [chairs][ 5 min][09:05] - RFCs published Observed DNS Resolution Misbehavior RFC 4697/BCP0123 - Internet-Drafts in RFC Editor Queue -none- - I-Ds at the IESG draft-huston-6to4-reverse-dns-07.txt (now an AD sponsored individual submission) - I-Ds in or past WGLC draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-07.txt update expected draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00.txt WGLC done update expected draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt WGLC ends 2006-11-11 3) Active Drafts [chairs][50 min][09:10] 3.1) draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00.txt [Mark Andrews][10 min][09:10] post WGLC discussion 3.2) draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt [Joao/Fred][10 min][09:20] WGLC discussion 3.3) draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-06.txt [N.N.][10 min][09:30] document status recap QNAME length debate 3.4) draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-00.txt [Andrew Sullivan][20 min][09:40] Issues list 4) WG Charter [chairs][10 min][10:00] 5) Other (non WG) Internet-Drafts [chairs][25 min][10:10] 5.1) draft-otis-dkim-dosp-02.txt 5.2) draft-crocker-dns-attrleaf-02.txt 5.3) TBD 6) Current & New Topics [chairs][30 min][10:35] 6.1) AS112 [N.N.][10 min][10:35] 6.2) Classless Delegation (RFC 2317) experiences [N.N.][10 min][10:45] 6.3) DNS search path considerations [Koch][10 min][10:55] 7) I/O with other WGs [chairs][20 min][11:05] 7.1) dnsext: DNS cookies operational requirements 7.2) dnsext: DNAME operational aspects draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-00.txt 7.3) v6ops: draft-ietf-v6ops-scanning-implications-01.txt 7.4) geopriv: draft-schulzrinne-geopriv-relo-01.txt 8) A.O.B. [N.N.][ 5 min][11:25] {please identify issues in advance} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Mon Oct 30 17:59:10 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Geg62-0004Vv-Gl for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:59:10 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Geg5g-0008Ug-39 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:59:10 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9UMASRY014536; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:10:28 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9UMASYc014534; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:10:28 -0800 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9UMAR7u014521 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:10:27 -0800 Received: from [168.61.10.151] (SJC-Office-DHCP-151.Mail-Abuse.ORG [168.61.10.151]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9UMA7LC002527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:10:07 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20061030203950.GD284@denics7.denic.de> References: <20061030203950.GD284@denics7.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-8--744552349 Message-Id: <2C73C251-3B52-473F-BF6B-9A77115202F7@mail-abuse.org> Cc: IETF DNSOP WG From: Douglas Otis Subject: Re: [dnsop] DNSOP Agenda for San Diego (IETF 67) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:10:41 -0800 To: Peter Koch , pk@isoc.de X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2132/Mon Oct 30 11:42:34 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 848ed35f2a4fc0638fa89629cb640f48 --Apple-Mail-8--744552349 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Oct 30, 2006, at 12:39 PM, Peter Koch wrote: > Dear WG, > > here's the final agenda for the upcoming meeting. An online version is > available at dnsop.txt>. > Slight modifications might still occur. > > -Peter --Apple-Mail-8--744552349 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; x-unix-mode=0666; name=agenda67.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=agenda67.txt ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- WG: DNS Operations (dnsop) Meeting: IETF 67, San Diego Location: Sheraton San Diego Hotel & Marina, "Harbor 3" Date: Friday, 10 November 2006 Time: 09:00 - 11:30 (UTC-8) (// monami6, rrg, sip, hoakey, tls) Chairs: Rob Austein Peter Koch Jabber: xmpp:dnsop@jabber.ietf.org WG URL: http://www.dnsop.org Material: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=67 Version: $Revision: 1.4 $ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Administrivia [chairs][ 5 min][09:00] - minutes scribe {volunteers welcome in advance!} - jabber scribe {volunteers welcome in advance!} - blue sheets - agenda bashing 2) Status Update [chairs][ 5 min][09:05] - RFCs published Observed DNS Resolution Misbehavior RFC 4697/BCP0123 - Internet-Drafts in RFC Editor Queue -none- - I-Ds at the IESG draft-huston-6to4-reverse-dns-07.txt (now an AD sponsored individual submission) - I-Ds in or past WGLC draft-ietf-dnsop-serverid-07.txt update expected draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00.txt WGLC done update expected draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt WGLC ends 2006-11-11 3) Active Drafts [chairs][50 min][09:10] 3.1) draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-00.txt [Mark Andrews][10 min][09:10] post WGLC discussion 3.2) draft-ietf-dnsop-reflectors-are-evil-02.txt [Joao/Fred][10 min][09:20] WGLC discussion 3.3) draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-06.txt [N.N.][10 min][09:30] document status recap QNAME length debate 3.4) draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-00.txt [Andrew Sullivan][20 min][09:40] Issues list 4) WG Charter [chairs][10 min][10:00] 5) Other (non WG) Internet-Drafts [chairs][25 min][10:10] 5.1) draft-otis-dkim-dosp-02.txt 5.2) draft-crocker-dns-attrleaf-02.txt 5.3) TBD 6) Current & New Topics [chairs][30 min][10:35] 6.1) AS112 [N.N.][10 min][10:35] 6.2) Classless Delegation (RFC 2317) experiences [N.N.][10 min][10:45] 6.3) DNS search path considerations [Koch][10 min][10:55] 7) I/O with other WGs [chairs][20 min][11:05] 7.1) dnsext: DNS cookies operational requirements 7.2) dnsext: DNAME operational aspects draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-00.txt 7.3) v6ops: draft-ietf-v6ops-scanning-implications-01.txt 7.4) geopriv: draft-schulzrinne-geopriv-relo-01.txt 8) A.O.B. [N.N.][ 5 min][11:25] {please identify issues in advance} ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-8--744552349 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Is this a mistake? The agenda item indicates draft-otis-dkim-dosp-02.txt rather than draft-otis-spf-dos-exploit-01.txt I can talk about either, but the dkim draft pertains to possible checks made against DKIM signatures. It seems the SPF DoS concern would be of greater interest for DNSOPS. I have also been invited to make a presentation regarding the SPF/Sender-ID topic at: http://isotf.org/isoi2.html -Doug --Apple-Mail-8--744552349-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 31 04:18:45 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gepld-0006w4-Kl for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 04:18:45 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GeplZ-00025s-9b for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 04:18:45 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9V8VGBA003462; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 00:31:16 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9V8VGRh003460; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 00:31:16 -0800 Received: from smtp.denic.de (smtp.denic.de [81.91.161.3]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9V8VFSf003455 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 00:31:16 -0800 Received: from mail-int1.denic.de (mail-int1.denic.de [192.168.0.45]) by smtp.denic.de with esmtp id 1Gep1a-0003KH-Ax; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:31:10 +0100 Received: from localhost by mail-int1.denic.de with local id 1Gep1Z-0001b9-00; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:31:09 +0100 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:31:09 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] DNSOP Agenda for San Diego (IETF 67) Message-ID: <20061031083109.GA24912@denics7.denic.de> References: <20061030203950.GD284@denics7.denic.de> <2C73C251-3B52-473F-BF6B-9A77115202F7@mail-abuse.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2C73C251-3B52-473F-BF6B-9A77115202F7@mail-abuse.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2132/Mon Oct 30 11:42:34 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 02:10:41PM -0800, Douglas Otis wrote: > 5) Other (non WG) Internet-Drafts > [chairs][25 min][10:10] > > 5.1) draft-otis-dkim-dosp-02.txt > rather than > > draft-otis-spf-dos-exploit-01.txt apologies, wrong pattern match on my side. The slot is assigned for the "SPF DoS exploit" you mentioned at the end of the last meeting. The online agenda has been fixed. > checks made against DKIM signatures. It seems the SPF DoS concern > would be of greater interest for DNSOPS. I have also been invited to > make a presentation regarding the SPF/Sender-ID topic at: Thanks for the pointer. 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qMBCMixDM/SIXThDNVxD/70SQzfEQDaMwykagbAxADm0rDfMwwW8Qz7sQz/0KT0MREFkQA8YxMf6 w+ygBUTkDENsREd8REiMREmcREqsxMZaREzMRE2kIUvsRE/8RFCsjE0cRVIsRVM8RVRMxawKRVZU KlV8xbZrRVm8OVisxc6YRVzMRV10Q1vsRV/8RWAMRkbcRWK0J2H0xWJMRmVcxsQ7Rs+yAo9hRmkU Ime0xWnkKxi4Rm1UxmqsxW38RibsRlUER3IsR3OkKXHkvl+6jnOcRvX7knTsv3XkqHacRFLwjnes R32MjnzcR3/8HwD4R4G8jH4cSIOUioBEolM4SGmMR4d8SIj8hyuIyIRjSC+LvEiMzEiNnA6KHMWN vMiO9MiPZMiQ3MSRJMmSzEToAIaT5MaUfEmYjEmZDKqAAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C6FCB9.E6D7CED0-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 31 11:16:51 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GewB3-0006Yy-CC for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:09:25 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GevxM-0003gf-GG for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:55:46 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9VF62Po015589; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:06:02 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9VF62hp015587; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:06:02 -0800 Received: from mail.schlyter.se (trinitario.schlyter.se [195.47.254.10]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9VBZrod009545 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 03:35:54 -0800 Received: from [82.94.105.57] (a82-94-105-57.adsl.xs4all.nl [82.94.105.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: roy@mail.schlyter.se) by mail.schlyter.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72CF42D519 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:35:50 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <02F4D519-7797-43D3-810C-43678F841084@dnss.ec> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: IETF DNSOP WG From: Roy Arends Subject: [dnsop] Microsoft Personal Firewall vulnerability related to DNS Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:35:34 +0100 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2133/Tue Oct 31 02:42:29 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 You have probably heard by now that there is a new (zero-day) exploit in the wild that can disable the Microsoft Personal Firewall. Details can be found here: http://blog.ncircle.com/archives/2006/10/new_microsoft_r.htm The reason I'm posting this, is that the exploit abuses a bug in a DNS message parser in ICS, details are here: http://blog.ncircle.com/archives/2006/10/microsoft_ics_d.htm Most importantly: How does the DoS work? When the Additional RRs (aka Additional Information) section of the DNS Datagram contains two null bytes an error occurs at the instruction "mov dl,byte ptr [eax]". This causes the service and it's host process (svchost.exe) to die. One thing to remember is that the ICS service is tied to the Firewall service. If ICS dies so does your firewall. I'm worried about the scale of things here. What I'm interested in is: 1) Which resolver implementations blindly passes received messages (including the two null bytes) to the client. I haven't tested this, since I'm fairly busy preparing for the upcoming IETF, but I'm really interested if any of the implementers on this list could respond. 2) Does the ICS DNS proxy blindly parse unsolicited DNS response messages. If this is the case, than the attack efficiency scales up tremendously. Roy . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 31 11:16:55 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GewB3-0006Yq-EI for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:09:25 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GevxL-0003gY-LX for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:55:40 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9VF4J6B015530; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:04:19 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9VF4Jj3015528; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:04:19 -0800 Received: from zyadd226.zyxel.com.tw (59-124-182-147.HINET-IP.hinet.net [59.124.182.147]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9V7Ajm1001188 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2006 23:10:47 -0800 Received: from zytwbe01.zyxel.com ([172.23.5.10]) by smtp.zyxel.com.tw with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:10:34 +0800 Received: from zytwfe01.ZyXEL.com ([172.23.5.5]) by zytwbe01.zyxel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:10:37 +0800 Received: from [172.23.17.43] ([172.23.17.43]) by zytwfe01.ZyXEL.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:10:37 +0800 Message-ID: <4546F6F2.9030602@zyxel.com.tw> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:10:42 +0800 From: Blue User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Windows/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: [dnsop] Questions about IPv4 or IPv6 DNS server Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2006 07:10:37.0116 (UTC) FILETIME=[AA3287C0:01C6FCBB] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2132/Mon Oct 30 11:42:34 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Hi, all: Currently a dual-stack device could get both IPv4 and IPv6 DNS server list from either manually configuration or DHCPv4/v6. Is there any regulation about the querying sequence when a DNS client wants to invoke a query? I have dug into the RFC database and could not find any documents concerning about the question. Or it's just an implementation issue? Best regards, Yi-Wen . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 31 12:17:11 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GexEd-0003XS-4g for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:17:11 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GexEZ-0003hT-Nl for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:17:11 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9VGYMEg019026; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:34:22 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9VGYMrS019024; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:34:22 -0800 Received: from purgatory.unfix.org (postfix@purgatory.unfix.org [213.136.24.43]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9VGYL97019017 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:34:22 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9499140C280; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:34:19 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2133/Tue Oct 31 02:42:29 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Scanned: purgatory.unfix.org - http://unfix.org Received: from purgatory.unfix.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (purgatory.unfix.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e1sxRyzrvYcv; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:34:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2] (cl-159.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jeroen) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9DAD140C276; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:34:15 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <45477B0D.2030105@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:34:21 +0000 From: Jeroen Massar Organization: Unfix User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060909 Thunderbird/1.5.0.7 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Blue CC: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] Questions about IPv4 or IPv6 DNS server References: <4546F6F2.9030602@zyxel.com.tw> In-Reply-To: <4546F6F2.9030602@zyxel.com.tw> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 OpenPGP: id=333E7C23 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig2F4AB91B1B16E23A28E9BAFF" X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig2F4AB91B1B16E23A28E9BAFF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blue wrote: > Hi, all: >=20 > Currently a dual-stack device could get both IPv4 and IPv6 DNS server > list from either manually configuration or DHCPv4/v6. Is there any > regulation about the querying sequence when a DNS client wants to invok= e > a query? I have dug into the RFC database and could not find any > documents concerning about the question. Or it's just an implementation= > issue? Like any IPv4 -> IPv6 transition mechanism: first try IPv6, then try IPv4= =2E At least that is how the RFC's specify it (don't ask me which one, but one of them does ;) There is one problem with this though: lets take a dual stacked host A, it has IPv4 and IPv6 connectivity, but IPv6 is broken, the host wants to go to a dual-stacked webserver, it tries to connect over IPv6, it times out (no icmp coming back for whatever reason), and tries IPv4. Thus it does reach the server, but after a timeout. If you thus have a user, they will percieve it as a crappy network and might go somewhere else. As such, depending on the application and where it will be deployed it might be smarter to have an option of enabling IPv6 later. IMHO it would still have been good to have a OS/user-global way to specify this. Some dns-resolver libraries support this actually. The real solution to this problem is of course to simply turn of IPv6 or to fix the network ("ip -6 ro add /32 dev lo" helps ;). Of course it might also happen the other way around: broken IPv4 but working IPv6. But at the moment there are IPv6 'networks' which are very crappily maintained and then those circumstances happen, the user will then only say one thing: IPv6 sucks... as that is how they perceive it. Can't blame them for that now can we. When thus having an IPv6 enabled network, also make sure one actually manages it, the same as IPv4. Note that several browsers have for that exact reason an option to have IPv4 go first and then do IPv6 later. The default Mac OS X browser does that for instance, and Opera also has afaik at least the option. DNS uses round-robin and server selection in quite some implementations anyway, as such in the case of DNS this should not give a big problem. Giving the user the option to choose is always a good thing. Greets, Jeroen --------------enig2F4AB91B1B16E23A28E9BAFF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ iHUEARECADUFAkVHew0uFIAAAAAAFQAQcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JnamVy b2VuQHVuZml4Lm9yZwAKCRApqihSMz58I2/fAJ9k3Mupcsx1JRCudgwZ6LVwP+AG 8QCfWZHNjSGaUdbt7GR1OwH7g7lng1E= =GlAz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig2F4AB91B1B16E23A28E9BAFF-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 31 12:17:57 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GexFL-0003z6-Jy for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:17:57 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GexFG-0004AF-7u for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:17:55 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9VGYYQ5019043; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:34:34 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9VGYYgU019041; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:34:34 -0800 Received: from outpost.ds9a.nl (postfix@outpost.ds9a.nl [213.244.168.210]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9VGYXk7019036 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:34:33 -0800 Received: by outpost.ds9a.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 47B293FB9; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:34:30 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:34:30 +0100 From: bert hubert To: Roy Arends Cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [dnsop] Microsoft Personal Firewall vulnerability related to DNS Message-ID: <20061031163429.GA21663@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mail-Followup-To: bert hubert , Roy Arends , IETF DNSOP WG References: <02F4D519-7797-43D3-810C-43678F841084@dnss.ec> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <02F4D519-7797-43D3-810C-43678F841084@dnss.ec> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2133/Tue Oct 31 02:42:29 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 12:35:34PM +0100, Roy Arends wrote: > 1) Which resolver implementations blindly passes received messages > (including the two null bytes) to the client. PowerDNS doesn't, the reply packet gets built from scratch. -- http://www.PowerDNS.com Open source, database driven DNS Software http://netherlabs.nl Open and Closed source services . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 31 12:25:37 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GexMn-0004Rq-Ms for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:25:37 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GexMN-0007Lh-3L for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:25:37 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9VGfNYP019277; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:41:23 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9VGfNuT019275; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:41:23 -0800 Received: from ogud.com (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9VGfMTT019268 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:41:22 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9VGfBuM012624; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:41:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4546F6F2.9030602@zyxel.com.tw> References: <4546F6F2.9030602@zyxel.com.tw> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:41:11 -0500 To: Blue From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [dnsop] Questions about IPv4 or IPv6 DNS server Cc: dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu, ed.lewis@neustar.biz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 66.92.146.160 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2133/Tue Oct 31 02:42:29 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 At 15:10 +0800 10/31/06, Blue wrote: >Hi, all: > >Currently a dual-stack device could get both IPv4 and IPv6 DNS server >list from either manually configuration or DHCPv4/v6. Is there any >regulation about the querying sequence when a DNS client wants to invoke >a query? I have dug into the RFC database and could not find any >documents concerning about the question. Or it's just an implementation >issue? It's mostly an implementation issue. There are some conventions though - like not flooding servers with queries while waiting. As far as whether to prefer IPv6 or IPv4, that's a "personal" decision. One popular belief is try IPv6 first because that's the new thing in town, but there can be some bad experiences doing that. For instance, you may have IPv6 locally and at the server, but the IPv6 routing is not complete between the two. As far as the protocol and system are concerned, it is customary to have a time out of a few seconds to allow a server to respond to a first query before assuming the query has gotten lost. You want to avoid having a server get a query twice if the first response eventually does get back to the client because the second query and it's handling is pure bad overhead. A good strategy for query management can improve performance. There might be a tradeoff of what is an improvement - sometimes what is good for a client is not good for the servers. It's not always clear what is the best thing for all involved. I have seen bad clients cause problems for the network. Even though a deficient design can cause problems, trying to reach a consensus of what is the right thing to do is not easy. This is why there is no regulation, no standard. You might look at RFC 1034, section 6.3.1 for a sort-of standard mention of how a client (resolver) should behave. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Secrets of Success #107: Why arrive at 7am for the good parking space? Come in at 11am while the early birds drive out to lunch. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 31 14:44:26 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GezX7-0000NU-Kr for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:44:25 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GezX4-0004cH-8T for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:44:25 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9VIwKft025525; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:58:20 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id k9VIwKit025523; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:58:20 -0800 Received: from ogud.com (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k9VIwGIc025513 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:58:17 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9VIw4LI013346; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:58:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <45477B0D.2030105@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> References: <4546F6F2.9030602@zyxel.com.tw> <45477B0D.2030105@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:55:37 -0500 To: Jeroen Massar From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [dnsop] Questions about IPv4 or IPv6 DNS server Cc: Blue , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 66.92.146.160 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2133/Tue Oct 31 02:42:29 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 At 16:34 +0000 10/31/06, Jeroen Massar wrote: >Like any IPv4 -> IPv6 transition mechanism: first try IPv6, then try IPv4. There is the option to try both simultaneously. A query for the A RR can be sent in parallel to the AAAA RR. This is better from the point of view of the application user, there isn't a need to wait for a time out. On the other hand, this makes the application developer's job harder - having to juggle two potential answers and connections starting up (assuming TCP). If you try IPv6 first, if IPv6 is available then the new technology will be used. However, there have been recommendations (I found a few just by googling for "disable ipv6") saying that to improve performance, disable IPv6. Then you will fall back to the more deployed and tested technology. I can attest that there have been times in which disabling IPv6 at some conferences led to better networking performance. (Yes, I know I could reported this to the conference NOC, but my mission was to get some information, not play with a new technology.) Only because of that experience do I no longer agree that one should always try IPv6 (or any new technology) first. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Secrets of Success #107: Why arrive at 7am for the good parking space? Come in at 11am while the early birds drive out to lunch. . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html From nimfirmin@amphire.com Tue Oct 31 15:19:31 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gf054-0007Cd-HK for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:19:31 -0500 Received: from aamiens-152-1-37-96.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr ([83.198.36.96] helo=amphire.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gf04r-0002pX-IB for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:19:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c6fd29$d17d15c0$eca0a8c0@ufydy> Reply-To: "Goizeder Sepulveda" From: "Goizeder Sepulveda" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: Re: 726 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:19:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6FCE6.C359D5C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Antivirus: avast! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6FCE6.C359D5C0-- From owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Tue Oct 31 23:37:38 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gf7r7-00020w-Gg for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:37:38 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu ([128.223.142.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gf7r5-0005DZ-5F for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:37:37 -0500 Received: from mailapps.uoregon.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kA13cPBU014580; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:38:25 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id kA13cP95014578; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:38:25 -0800 Received: from purgatory.unfix.org (postfix@purgatory.unfix.org [213.136.24.43]) by mailapps.uoregon.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kA13cOnP014572 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:38:24 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D59C140C28F; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:38:20 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2136/Tue Oct 31 19:06:48 2006 on mailapps X-Virus-Scanned: purgatory.unfix.org - http://unfix.org Received: from purgatory.unfix.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (purgatory.unfix.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NAJqwYPmDlq6; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:38:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2] (cl-159.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jeroen) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFB7D140C28D; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:38:15 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <454816A9.5070201@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 03:38:17 +0000 From: Jeroen Massar Organization: Unfix User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060909 Thunderbird/1.5.0.7 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edward Lewis CC: Blue , dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: [dnsop] Questions about IPv4 or IPv6 DNS server References: <4546F6F2.9030602@zyxel.com.tw> <45477B0D.2030105@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 OpenPGP: id=333E7C23 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig5195A4545DE3A2E25748B618" X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-dnsop@lists.uoregon.edu Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig5195A4545DE3A2E25748B618 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Edward Lewis wrote: > At 16:34 +0000 10/31/06, Jeroen Massar wrote: >=20 >> Like any IPv4 -> IPv6 transition mechanism: first try IPv6, then try >> IPv4. >=20 > There is the option to try both simultaneously. A query for the A RR > can be sent in parallel to the AAAA RR. That depends if you are talking about asking for A + AAAA records or talking about using IPv4 or IPv6 as a transport to ask these questions. Both can be done in parallel of course, but that would cause quite some unnecessary traffic and also most likely when everything is working fine , dupes. [..] > I can attest that there have been times in which disabling IPv6 at some= > conferences led to better networking performance. (Yes, I know I could= > reported this to the conference NOC, but my mission was to get some > information, not play with a new technology.) Only because of that > experience do I no longer agree that one should always try IPv6 (or any= > new technology) first. Which is why I noted that one should nullroute crappy networks on the local host to easily resolve this issue ;) Greets, Jeroen --------------enig5195A4545DE3A2E25748B618 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ iHUEARECADUFAkVIFq4uFIAAAAAAFQAQcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JnamVy b2VuQHVuZml4Lm9yZwAKCRApqihSMz58IyUSAJ9KYU2mi8uvS/nFIisnemV0qp9t XgCfZWLSGCXnWu6SEei5fK/E7ZGB+mQ= =SVdx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig5195A4545DE3A2E25748B618-- . dnsop resources:_____________________________________________________ web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop.html mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/dnsop/index.html