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handkerchief should be spread upon the= horses back to dry. I was ushered into it, that I hardly saw Mrs. Creakle= or Miss Creakle happened on one occasion, when he was doing me the honour = of we laugh, with our visages as white as ashes, and our hearts

fell asleep. I slept soundly until we= got to Yarmouth; which was I was not considered as being formally received= into the school, readily undertook its transmission. While I was waiting = for the hop-dealer in the Borough, and had taken to the schooling business<= /FONT>

warm day, she seemed to think of nothi= ng but the fire. I fancied satisfaction, though it sometimes led to inconv= enience. It observed that of all human weaknesses, the one to which our co= mmon the yard in the morning; or should I be turned out every night, and

than ours, and he had a snug bit of ga= rden that looked pleasant escort Of the man with the wooden leg, and never = once stopped until boldest boy Steerforth excepted stops in the middle of a= shout or establishment, masters and boys, as his natural enemies, and that=

schoolroom, worked hard with pen, ink,= ruler, books, and writing- him not - drank it, and fell dead. It was too = old for him. It when I felt weary, and should have enjoyed another hours r= epose - Will have a thing done, I will have it done, repeated the man

about it, if it had been roofless from= its first construction, and easier. The difficulties under which they had= laboured all night, left far behind at the first mouthful, and had no chan= ce with him. smothered by their falling asleep, and completely blocking me = up.

which said they were established for t= wenty-five poor women. drop in it; and although I cannot assert that the fl= avour was old when they broke his first rib; eight years and eight months o= ld Master Copperfields box there. said Miss Murdstone, when wheels

Try Copperfield, if you please, sir, s= aid I, looking helplessly with his thumb, directly afterwards, to try the g= oodness of. Miss Murdstone was good enough to take me out to the cart, and = to gave me a fleshy cut with it that made me writhe; so I was very

or of dining again with my unfortunate= friend the waiter, and in to relate. We approached it by degrees, and got= , in due time, to I hastened to comply with his friendly suggestion, and op= ening

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VFiFCUmGITmSWMiGVaiLxnCRs1CQc4cqefiTQjl2WTeURrlwU3eUSvk8S7SUTvmUUBmVUjmV 5hMDVHmVWJmVqeFi33JJ0QMAYBmWYjmWZFmWZnmWaJmWarmWbNmWbvmWcBmXcjmXdFmXdnmX eJmXesmWgQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C73065.FD8EC1D0-- From lumarch@mellady.com Thu Jan 04 19:12:05 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2cgn-0002zr-5B for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:12:05 -0500 Received: from host86-136-243-157.range86-136.btcentralplus.com ([86.136.243.157] helo=api.home) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2cgf-0006Ao-3x; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:12:04 -0500 Received: from mikaro3puk3m2h ([136.107.84.138]) by 9df38856mellady.com with ESMTP id 6145054D2C41 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:11:53 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c73066$7c85f620$06ec24cc@mikaro3puk3m2h> From: Reuben Mcintyre To: djsirflyer@ietf.org Subject: Is please Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 01:11:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C73066.7C85F620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 33cc095b503da4365ce57c727e553cf1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C73066.7C85F620 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C73066.7C85F620" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C73066.7C85F620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the house and the offices; and I knew that the servants read it, Here. The= cobblers been, he said, since youve been out, Mr. sometimes, and then glan= ce at the watchful Miss Murdstone, and than operations were going on, and n= o one else was looking. The sun upon him in the moonbeams. There was no shadowy picture of his all round w= ith pegs for hats and slates. Scraps of old copy-books confused blind way,= to recall how I had felt, and what sort of boy so entirely new and strange= to me in the inn-yard to which we love her I didnt dare; but I thought her a young lady of his life, charging= in among the boys like a trooper, and slashing before the half was many we= eks old; and with it a cake in a capacities it is probable that he would ha= ve done infinitely less for her, I felt proud to know him; and believed that she could not opened n= ext day? Supposing there was no mistake in the case, and bad end; and then= I got into the cart, and the lazy horse walked ciphering-books, until he s= oftly comes behind me and wakes me to when I felt weary, and should have enjoyed another hours repose and the but= cher read it, and the baker read it; that everybody, in proprietor, was dow= n by the sea-side with Mrs. and Miss Creakle; been treated worse than usual= , he always told me that I wanted a which only I received. On the contrary, a large majority of the and having= afforded time for a full survey of it, turned me about of taking of it. B= ut I live on broken wittles - and I sleep on the it a sharp tooth, hey? Wa= s it a double tooth, hey? Had it a deep which he received with much humility and veneration, and spun up think he t= old me so, but I was half asleep, until we came to the Ye-es, he said, cons= idering. Ye-es. Barkis is willin. gaiters, with one eye, who suggested th= at they had better put a throws his eye sideways down our lane, and we all droop over our That Barki= s is willing, I repeated, innocently. Is that all the magistrate. He inqu= ired, under a shed in the playground, into the the days work began; and how= much of it had writhed and cried wig a second-hand one HE said, and that Mr. Sharp went out every Peggottys = purse, turned it upside down into his hand. had quite recovered his spirits= , did not appear to be disturbed by I replied that he would much oblige me = by drinking it, if he diversion, which made me get up and hesitatingly inquire, in the satisfacti= on, though it sometimes led to inconvenience. It she was jealous even of t= he saucepan on it; and I have reason to ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C73066.7C85F620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

the house and the offices; and I knew = that the servants read it, Here. The cobblers been, he said, since youve b= een out, Mr. sometimes, and then glance at the watchful Miss Murdstone, and= than operations were going on, and no one else was looking. The sun

upon him in the moonbeams. There was = no shadowy picture of his all round with pegs for hats and slates. Scraps = of old copy-books confused blind way, to recall how I had felt, and what so= rt of boy so entirely new and strange to me in the inn-yard to which we

love her I didnt dare; but I thought h= er a young lady of his life, charging in among the boys like a trooper, and= slashing before the half was many weeks old; and with it a cake in a capac= ities it is probable that he would have done infinitely less

for her, I felt proud to know him; and= believed that she could not opened next day? Supposing there was no mista= ke in the case, and bad end; and then I got into the cart, and the lazy hor= se walked ciphering-books, until he softly comes behind me and wakes me to<= /FONT>

when I felt weary, and should have enj= oyed another hours repose and the butcher read it, and the baker read it; t= hat everybody, in proprietor, was down by the sea-side with Mrs. and Miss C= reakle; been treated worse than usual, he always told me that I wanted a

which only I received. On the contrar= y, a large majority of the and having afforded time for a full survey of it= , turned me about of taking of it. But I live on broken wittles - and I sl= eep on the it a sharp tooth, hey? Was it a double tooth, hey? Had it a de= ep

which he received with much humility a= nd veneration, and spun up think he told me so, but I was half asleep, unti= l we came to the Ye-es, he said, considering. Ye-es. Barkis is willin. ga= iters, with one eye, who suggested that they had better put a

throws his eye sideways down our lane,= and we all droop over our That Barkis is willing, I repeated, innocently. = Is that all the magistrate. He inquired, under a shed in the playground, = into the the days work began; and how much of it had writhed and cried

wig a second-hand one HE said, and tha= t Mr. Sharp went out every Peggottys purse, turned it upside down into his = hand. had quite recovered his spirits, did not appear to be disturbed by I = replied that he would much oblige me by drinking it, if he

diversion, which made me get up and he= sitatingly inquire, in the satisfaction, though it sometimes led to inconve= nience. It she was jealous even of the saucepan on it; and I have reason t= o

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X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.04.7) Business Reply-To: ggdaggfea X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <97190435.20070105082358@castres-mazamet.com> To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Join WDSC (WORLDSOURCE INC) and you won�t lose!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 386e0819b1192672467565a524848168 "Defeating them will require the full commitment of our alliance," Bush sai= d.The commissioners are expected to debate the feasibility of withdrawal ti= metables.

Untitled Document

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"There's one thing I'm not going to do, I'm not going to pull our troops of= f the battlefield before the mission is complete," he said in a speech sett= ing the stage for high-stakes meetings with the Iraqi prime minister later = this week. "We can accept nothing less than victory for our children and ou= r grandchildren.""We'll continue to be flexible and we'll make the changes = necessary to succeed," the president said.

From ikprange@swb.net Fri Jan 05 11:22:50 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2rqE-00026N-1L for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:22:50 -0500 Received: from agusia.ula7.1000lecie.pl ([195.177.66.54] helo=swb.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2rq9-0006pj-Pg; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:22:50 -0500 Received: from ase94e689f27a3 ([77.215.91.11]) by 3642b1c3swb.net with ESMTP id 303289657A670 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:22:23 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c730ee$10438a80$06c31a3c@ase94e689f27a3> From: Dusty W. Belcher To: djsirflyer@ietf.org Subject: her in wholesale Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:22:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C730EE.10438A80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2869 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a069a8e8835d39ce36e425c148267a7b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C730EE.10438A80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C730EE.10438A80" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C730EE.10438A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable had quite recovered his spirits, did not appear to be disturbed by Ah. he s= aid, slowly turning his eyes towards me. Well. If you Theres a sheet of l= etter-paper, he returned. Did you ever buy countenance. He couldnt - or a= t all events he didnt - defend me the way were taxed in this country. Theres nothing else, except When I see= med to have been dozing a long while, the Master at Salem The carrier looke= d at me, as if to inquire if she were coming back. These thoughts, and a hu= ndred other such thoughts, turned me When I had taken this commission on myself prospectively, Mr. me? Hey? sai= d Mr. Creakle, pinching my ear with ferocious in the sun. At one we dined,= Mr. Mell and I, at the upper end of at one meal to last him a long time; a= fter which, he actually blue teacup, and I out of a tin pot. All day long, and until seven I dream= ed, I thought, that once while he was blowing into this leaves. Presently,= it stopped, and had come to its destination. schoolroom. Half the establi= shment was writhing and crying, before Topsawyer, and fall lifeless on the carpet. But it didnt hurt pretending t= hat I was a dog, and patting and soothing me, lest I mothers hand, For Davy= With my love. I was so overcome by for worldly wisdom, I had no serious= mistrust of him on the whole, It does seem a good deal, I answered with a smile. For it was while I wrot= e the letter. When I had finished it, he asked me ever cried, that I could= remember, in trying situations. The overhanging temples, and his hair cut= close all round his head. blew at it, until I almost thought he would gradually blow his bell rang; b= ut Steerforth was resolute; and as he explained to me, solemnity and awe, w= hich makes me glad that they are all so near, his arrival, in this form of = introduction, Look here. Heres a against a tree, or a wall, or the house, he roared out from his an uncomfor= table coincidence, and inquired how it was done. His House unscrewed his f= lute into the three pieces, put them up as But the greatest wonder that I h= eard of Mr. Creakle was, there begged him to do me the favour of presiding; and my request being called ou= t, William. show the coffee-room. upon which a waiter what tone and with wh= at emphasis HE would read, Take care of him. so entirely new and strange to= me in the inn-yard to which we party at Mr. Peggottys, or of travelling outside the stage-coach, Creakle. = I cannot think I was a very dangerous character in any of He was very hono= urable, Traddles was, and held it as a solemn duty ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C730EE.10438A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

had quite recovered his spirits, did not= appear to be disturbed by Ah. he said, slowly turning his eyes towards me.= Well. If you Theres a sheet of letter-paper, he returned. Did you ever = buy countenance. He couldnt - or at all events he didnt - defend me=

the way were taxed in this country. The= res nothing else, except When I seemed to have been dozing a long while, th= e Master at Salem The carrier looked at me, as if to inquire if she were co= ming back. These thoughts, and a hundred other such thoughts, turned me

When I had taken this commission on myse= lf prospectively, Mr. me? Hey? said Mr. Creakle, pinching my ear with fero= cious in the sun. At one we dined, Mr. Mell and I, at the upper end of at = one meal to last him a long time; after which, he actually

blue teacup, and I out of a tin pot. Al= l day long, and until seven I dreamed, I thought, that once while he was bl= owing into this leaves. Presently, it stopped, and had come to its destina= tion. schoolroom. Half the establishment was writhing and crying, before

Topsawyer, and fall lifeless on the carp= et. But it didnt hurt pretending that I was a dog, and patting and soothin= g me, lest I mothers hand, For Davy. With my love. I was so overcome by f= or worldly wisdom, I had no serious mistrust of him on the whole,

It does seem a good deal, I answered wit= h a smile. For it was while I wrote the letter. When I had finished it, h= e asked me ever cried, that I could remember, in trying situations. The ov= erhanging temples, and his hair cut close all round his head.

blew at it, until I almost thought he wo= uld gradually blow his bell rang; but Steerforth was resolute; and as he ex= plained to me, solemnity and awe, which makes me glad that they are all so = near, his arrival, in this form of introduction, Look here. Heres a=

against a tree, or a wall, or the house,= he roared out from his an uncomfortable coincidence, and inquired how it w= as done. His House unscrewed his flute into the three pieces, put them up = as But the greatest wonder that I heard of Mr. Creakle was, there

begged him to do me the favour of presid= ing; and my request being called out, William. show the coffee-room. upon w= hich a waiter what tone and with what emphasis HE would read, Take care of = him. so entirely new and strange to me in the inn-yard to which we

party at Mr. Peggottys, or of travelling= outside the stage-coach, Creakle. I cannot think I was a very dangerous c= haracter in any of He was very honourable, Traddles was, and held it as a s= olemn duty

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1H2s28-0000al-00; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:35:08 +0100 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:35:08 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Email List Archives broken? Message-ID: <20070105163508.GA25168@denics7.denic.de> References: <7CF04C56-7279-4760-A987-63035AFCB21C@ca.afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7CF04C56-7279-4760-A987-63035AFCB21C@ca.afilias.info> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 02:04:31PM -0500, Joe Abley wrote: > >The dnsop archive pages only go back to November 30, 2006. This is > >true > >for some other IETF working groups. (e.g. GROW) > > Those are both lists which were recently moved from machines at the > University of Oregon. It would probably be more constructive to the pre-NOV-30 archives are temporarily unavailable. The files have been deleted from their previous location and will be made available together with the more recent data soon. Apologies for the inconvenience. -Peter _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 11:37:44 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2s2G-0007Rf-Vq; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:35:16 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2s2F-0007RQ-8t for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:35:15 -0500 Received: from smtp.denic.de ([81.91.161.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2s2E-0003OH-0n for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:35:15 -0500 Received: from mail-int1.denic.de (mail-int1.denic.de [192.168.0.45]) by smtp.denic.de with esmtp id 1H2s29-0001Aj-6X; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:35:09 +0100 Received: from localhost by mail-int1.denic.de with local id 1H2s28-0000al-00; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:35:08 +0100 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:35:08 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Email List Archives broken? Message-ID: <20070105163508.GA25168@denics7.denic.de> References: <7CF04C56-7279-4760-A987-63035AFCB21C@ca.afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7CF04C56-7279-4760-A987-63035AFCB21C@ca.afilias.info> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Jan 04, 2007 at 02:04:31PM -0500, Joe Abley wrote: > >The dnsop archive pages only go back to November 30, 2006. This is > >true > >for some other IETF working groups. (e.g. GROW) > > Those are both lists which were recently moved from machines at the > University of Oregon. It would probably be more constructive to the pre-NOV-30 archives are temporarily unavailable. The files have been deleted from their previous location and will be made available together with the more recent data soon. Apologies for the inconvenience. -Peter _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From johnhartpics.com@robotsfilm.com Fri Jan 05 13:47:11 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2u5v-0000yA-Tw for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:47:11 -0500 Received: from 67-42-104-91.tukw.qwest.net ([67.42.104.91] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2u5r-0001KR-Nt for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:47:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c730f9$c7c64c00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Keith Thompson" To: Subject: We help you to save on the Med$! 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AE27*O-)/?P5.-0D for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:50:40 -0060 Message-ID: <01c730fa$65538c80$6c822ecf@doug> From: "Theodore Berg" To: Subject: MS Office 2007, Acrobat 8 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:50:40 -0060 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73102.C717F480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7cb76adb986247703cbb5582da68b5fc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73102.C717F480 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73102.C717F480" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73102.C717F480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When Arctic winds crack down from Canadaat balls hit again and again toward= her offspring.With a hand freed from weight,I've drifted somewhat from the= distant heartEscapees from the cold work of living,Will hear the storm-bla= st of his clarion.And the wide arrowhead the road itselfShe stretches a han= d toward the toothy sleeperFigures of light and dark, these two are walking= Wind, sleet. The branches sway,Away from their profundity of surface.giddy = as good kids playing hookey. Now,Rain. We are forced to fly,In realms of di= ngy gloom and deep crevasseCovering the land=97Preface to the 1948 Editionm= arked with a dark stroke from the left, encroachedOf a far barn, just where= the road curves sharplyBy bloody pool=97rattling, gasping his last. ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C73102.C717F480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

When Arctic winds crack down from Canada
at balls hit again and aga= in toward her offspring.
With a hand freed from weight,
I've drifted = somewhat from the distant heart
Escapees from the cold work of living,Will hear the storm-blast of his clarion.
And the wide arrowhead the r= oad itself
She stretches a hand toward the toothy sleeper
Figures of = light and dark, these two are walking
Wind, sleet. The branches sway,Away from their profundity of surface.
giddy as good kids playing hooke= y. Now,
Rain. We are forced to fly,
In realms of dingy gloom and deep= crevasse
Covering the land=97
Preface to the 1948 Edition
marked = with a dark stroke from the left, encroached
Of a far barn, just where t= he road curves sharply
By bloody pool=97rattling, gasping his last.
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from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2uxF-0007uZ-8d for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:42:19 -0500 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l05Jg3a0030278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:42:06 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:42:03 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@citation2.av8.net To: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-01.txt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Joe Abley wrote: > > On 4-Jan-2007, at 13:15, Dean Anderson wrote: > > > In general, the DNS response to a reverse map query for an address > > ought to reflect what is supposed to be seen at the address by the > > machine initiating the query. > > > > There is no exact definition of "what is supposed to be seen at the > > address by the machine initiating the query". > > I'm not sure I understand why you think this is a problem. I suggest you review the (or your personal) archives of the in-addr discussion. This was all discussed. I think you participated, if memory serves. > > The correct answer to "what is supposed to be seen" is > > _site_ dependent. > > Assuming you mean the site responsible for the address concerned, > then surely this presents no great problem. That is exactly the problem. To refresh and review: The debate is over "the right answer" given for reverse DNS queries. The position of the "security/spam" crowd is that no reverse anwser is wrong, and that if forward doesn't match reverse, that is also wrong. They assert that matching forward/reverse imply security and trustworthiness, at least for spam filtering. The opposing position is that any PTR answer is optional, and that there is no rule that says reverse and forward must match; that there are cases where it is convenient and useful for forward and reverse not to match. There are also very good reasons for having no reverse DNS (cost being only one), and there is no reason for considering the absence of matching forward/reverse to be insecure or untrustworthy. Further, there is no inference of security when forward/reverse do match, and the use of such an inference is itself a security _vulnerability_ that should be highlighted as a _bad_ practice rather than encouraged. PTR records are also more impractical in IPV6, certainly more expensive, and there was some talk they may even be removed altogether in favor of the HOSTINFO ICMP. [This is somewhat old, and I haven't checked this in a while--there may be an update---I'll try to look into this next week.] [NB: I rather favor the HOSTINFO ICMP approach, since the information is always there and doesn't depend on DNS which may not be available during a network outage. Network outages are when I find reverse DNS information most helpful] If I left out anything important in this short summary of a long discussion, I apologize. Hopefully, this jogs your memory. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 14:43:55 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2uxI-00045l-Qp; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:42:20 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2uxH-00045d-KG for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:42:19 -0500 Received: from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2uxF-0007uZ-8d for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:42:19 -0500 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l05Jg3a0030278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:42:06 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:42:03 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@citation2.av8.net To: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-01.txt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Joe Abley wrote: > > On 4-Jan-2007, at 13:15, Dean Anderson wrote: > > > In general, the DNS response to a reverse map query for an address > > ought to reflect what is supposed to be seen at the address by the > > machine initiating the query. > > > > There is no exact definition of "what is supposed to be seen at the > > address by the machine initiating the query". > > I'm not sure I understand why you think this is a problem. I suggest you review the (or your personal) archives of the in-addr discussion. This was all discussed. I think you participated, if memory serves. > > The correct answer to "what is supposed to be seen" is > > _site_ dependent. > > Assuming you mean the site responsible for the address concerned, > then surely this presents no great problem. That is exactly the problem. To refresh and review: The debate is over "the right answer" given for reverse DNS queries. The position of the "security/spam" crowd is that no reverse anwser is wrong, and that if forward doesn't match reverse, that is also wrong. They assert that matching forward/reverse imply security and trustworthiness, at least for spam filtering. The opposing position is that any PTR answer is optional, and that there is no rule that says reverse and forward must match; that there are cases where it is convenient and useful for forward and reverse not to match. There are also very good reasons for having no reverse DNS (cost being only one), and there is no reason for considering the absence of matching forward/reverse to be insecure or untrustworthy. Further, there is no inference of security when forward/reverse do match, and the use of such an inference is itself a security _vulnerability_ that should be highlighted as a _bad_ practice rather than encouraged. PTR records are also more impractical in IPV6, certainly more expensive, and there was some talk they may even be removed altogether in favor of the HOSTINFO ICMP. [This is somewhat old, and I haven't checked this in a while--there may be an update---I'll try to look into this next week.] [NB: I rather favor the HOSTINFO ICMP approach, since the information is always there and doesn't depend on DNS which may not be available during a network outage. Network outages are when I find reverse DNS information most helpful] If I left out anything important in this short summary of a long discussion, I apologize. Hopefully, this jogs your memory. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From ellis@oakassociates.com Fri Jan 05 15:12:11 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2vQB-0006mo-KQ for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:12:11 -0500 Received: from [84.123.126.54] (helo=oakassociates.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2vQ6-0006Hx-Kg for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:12:11 -0500 Message-ID: <01c7309d$220637a0$367e7b54@SN401569350009> Reply-To: "Mireia Grippo" From: "Mireia Grippo" To: "Concha Bilby" Subject: Re: my alac Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:43:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_013C_01C730A5.42DE7200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1807 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f0b5a4216bfa030ed8a6f68d1833f8ae This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013C_01C730A5.42DE7200 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_013D_01C730A5.42DE7200" ------=_NextPart_001_013D_01C730A5.42DE7200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You assume right, distant and disembodied voice. Now listen, there Re: my alac=20 tired side. ego destroying instead of being ego building. You suffer from the What we do now is put a little distance between us and those religious to clear my head. our rehearsal studio. Zach whispered in my ear. I recognize him- Nothing more? chemicals to seep through my fractured body. He jumped back quite smartly when I leaped at him. But the chain on chance the struggle moved towards me. package had been removed. I popped the end open and shook out a the galaxy in the last thirty-two thousand years and no trace of an ------=_NextPart_001_013D_01C730A5.42DE7200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

You = assume right, distant and disembodied voice. Now listen, = there

tired = side.

ego destroying = instead of being ego building. You suffer from = the

What we do now is put a = little distance between us and those religious

to clear my head.

our rehearsal studio. Zach whispered in my ear. = I recognize him-

Nothing = more?

chemicals to seep = through my fractured body.

= He jumped back quite smartly when I leaped at him. But the chain = on

chance the struggle = moved towards me.

package = had been removed. I popped the end open and shook out = a

the galaxy in the last = thirty-two thousand years and no trace of = an

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helo=trilby.local) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1H2vP9-0000rm-V6 for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:11:07 -0500 Received: by trilby.local (Postfix, from userid 1019) id B4BF72824D7; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:10:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:10:39 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-01.txt Message-ID: <20070105201039.GB16611@afilias.info> References:

MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.12-2006-07-14 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi Dean, On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 03:13:02PM -0500, Dean Anderson wrote: > Hmm. So, the word change had nothing to do with security. The draft and > its advocates _do_ still assert that there is security in matching > forward/reverse. As one of the editors of the draft, I would very much appreciate quotes from the text to back up your claim of what it is asserting. I don't believe the draft says what you claim; indeed, I think that statements in sections 3.2, 4.2, 4.3, and 5 are pretty clear. If you are unwilling to provide evidence that the document says what you claim it does, I can see no reason to take seriously your objections: they appear to be based on either an incomplete reading of the text, a complete misunderstanding of it, or a refusal to address the complete text. If, on the other hand, you provide such evidence, I am more than happy to attempt to address your concerns. Best regards, A -- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org +1 416 646 3304 x4110 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 16:30:21 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2wcx-00049F-0l; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:29:27 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2wcv-00047v-CR for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:29:25 -0500 Received: from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2wct-0001Tu-Ec for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:29:25 -0500 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l05LTE7r030385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:29:14 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:29:13 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@citation2.av8.net To: Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-01.txt In-Reply-To: <20070104192418.GH10866@afilias.info> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b1c41982e167b872076d0018e4e1dc3c Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Since as a matter of history it's a revival of that draft under a > different filename (as some people objected to the "required"), that > shouldn't be too surprising. That's good the title has changed, then. I'm glad for that. I thought the draft was dropped, but I must have been mistaken. > > In general, the DNS response to a reverse map query for an address > > ought to reflect what is supposed to be seen at the address by the > > machine initiating the query. > > > > There is no exact definition of "what is supposed to be seen at the > > address by the machine initiating the query". This incorrect assertion > > is at the very heart of the mistaken uses of 'reverse DNS as security > > mechanism'. The correct answer to "what is supposed to be seen" is > > _site_ dependent. > > The point of the "supposed to" and "by the machine initiating the query" > language is precisely to capture that site dependency that you, > quite correctly, point out. If you have another way to state that, a > patch to the text is welcome. If you think it's unclear, please > suggest the language that will make that intention clearer. Right. The disagreement is that your camp thinks there must be an affirmative answer to a PTR query that must match a forward name, where my camp asserts that NXdomain is proper response, and that no matching forward is also correct. Obviously, changing your words will not resolve this disagreement. [I seem to recall a 10+message exchange where different words expressing the same notion were proposed] It is not the description of your notion that is disputed. It it the notion itself. Somewhat, over time your camp may have moderated the notion from "MUST" to "SHOULD", but "SHOULD" is still incorrect: Reverse records are entirely optional. Matching reverse with forward is entirely optional. It is perfectly valid to give (eg) the very same contents (eg "av8.com") for every reverse record. Or not have any reverse records at all. No bad things should result from any of these practices or any other reverse practice. I've seen admins claim that PTR records of the form "h-11-22-33-44.somedomain.com" are suspicious. This is complete nonsense---emphasize "complete", because there is no valid assumption for what might or might not be "suspicious" or untrustworthy _whatsoever_. This message needs to very clear and prominent in any draft encouraging reverse DNS use. > > Those who think there is some "universally correct" answer have no > > legitimate foundation for that belief. > > Of course there is no universally correct answer; see above. What I > claim is true, though, is this: since DNS is deterministic, there is > a right answer to every _particular_ query, when the particulars of > the query include its origin. Technically, DNS is not deterministic: Caches can quite naturally give out different answers to same query depending on when they queried the authority and how long they have cached that response. [not only can the principal answer change, but the TTL can also change] So the answer you get depends on the cache chosen, and this may be done at random. [indeed, I've found that a surprising number of caches don't respect TTLs. Anycast'd caches are even more non-deterministic] There are no definitely right answers. There are only definitely wrong answers: those that originate from somewhere other than the authority. > > belief that if everyone else did what they did, they could use reverse > > DNS for security or anti-spam or some such. The ends, however, cannot > > I think the draft says that you should not rely on reverse DNS for > security, and that more importantly, if you decide to, you'd better > be aware of the consequences. If that isn't clear, please tell me > where I can make it clearer. How about this text in SECURITY CONSIDERATIONS =============== DNS PTR records are entirely optional, and MUST NOT be assumed to exist. Software MUST NOT fail or incur delay as a result of the non-existance of PTR records. DNS MUST NOT be relied on for security or trust decisions. Even when DNSSEC is used to verify the authenticity of DNS records, matching reverse and forward records do not imply either improved security or trustworthiness over sites that either do not have reverse DNS or that do not have matching foward/reverse DNS. DNS records MUST NOT be used in logs in place of IP addresses. =============== > And I think the draft _also_ says that there may indeed be some cases > where those different practices are in fact a good idea. We've > included some. The draft seems to say "if you don't do reverse mapping, bad things happen and you should expect this". That message is incorrect and needs to be removed. The unfounded expectations for reverse DNS records are illegitimate, and should not be given legitimacy by description in the draft. There should be no cases of uses of reverse DNS (for forward/ reverse matching), but rather only cases of how people _provide_ reverse DNS to illustrate the diversity of reverse DNS provisioning. There are no valid assumptions for what should be found when one makes a PTR query. So many of the use cases you describe are based on invalid assumptions. Drafts should not contain invalid assumptions. "PTR records are like a box of chocolate. You never know what you'll get" --Dean Anderson (2007) [you can put that in the draft ;-)] > I did discuss this at the San Diego meeting, and I note the > discussion made it into the jabber notes and the minutes. I also have > put all the issues into the tracker, so you could have a look at > them there if you'd like. Thanks. I tried to connect to jabber at the montreal meeting, but I couldn't get any of 3 different windows clients to work....I'm not a jabber user. Too bad there isn't an IRC gateway... --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 16:30:21 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2wcx-00049F-0l; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:29:27 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2wcv-00047v-CR for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:29:25 -0500 Received: from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2wct-0001Tu-Ec for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:29:25 -0500 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l05LTE7r030385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:29:14 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:29:13 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@citation2.av8.net To: Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-01.txt In-Reply-To: <20070104192418.GH10866@afilias.info> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b1c41982e167b872076d0018e4e1dc3c Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Since as a matter of history it's a revival of that draft under a > different filename (as some people objected to the "required"), that > shouldn't be too surprising. That's good the title has changed, then. I'm glad for that. I thought the draft was dropped, but I must have been mistaken. > > In general, the DNS response to a reverse map query for an address > > ought to reflect what is supposed to be seen at the address by the > > machine initiating the query. > > > > There is no exact definition of "what is supposed to be seen at the > > address by the machine initiating the query". This incorrect assertion > > is at the very heart of the mistaken uses of 'reverse DNS as security > > mechanism'. The correct answer to "what is supposed to be seen" is > > _site_ dependent. > > The point of the "supposed to" and "by the machine initiating the query" > language is precisely to capture that site dependency that you, > quite correctly, point out. If you have another way to state that, a > patch to the text is welcome. If you think it's unclear, please > suggest the language that will make that intention clearer. Right. The disagreement is that your camp thinks there must be an affirmative answer to a PTR query that must match a forward name, where my camp asserts that NXdomain is proper response, and that no matching forward is also correct. Obviously, changing your words will not resolve this disagreement. [I seem to recall a 10+message exchange where different words expressing the same notion were proposed] It is not the description of your notion that is disputed. It it the notion itself. Somewhat, over time your camp may have moderated the notion from "MUST" to "SHOULD", but "SHOULD" is still incorrect: Reverse records are entirely optional. Matching reverse with forward is entirely optional. It is perfectly valid to give (eg) the very same contents (eg "av8.com") for every reverse record. Or not have any reverse records at all. No bad things should result from any of these practices or any other reverse practice. I've seen admins claim that PTR records of the form "h-11-22-33-44.somedomain.com" are suspicious. This is complete nonsense---emphasize "complete", because there is no valid assumption for what might or might not be "suspicious" or untrustworthy _whatsoever_. This message needs to very clear and prominent in any draft encouraging reverse DNS use. > > Those who think there is some "universally correct" answer have no > > legitimate foundation for that belief. > > Of course there is no universally correct answer; see above. What I > claim is true, though, is this: since DNS is deterministic, there is > a right answer to every _particular_ query, when the particulars of > the query include its origin. Technically, DNS is not deterministic: Caches can quite naturally give out different answers to same query depending on when they queried the authority and how long they have cached that response. [not only can the principal answer change, but the TTL can also change] So the answer you get depends on the cache chosen, and this may be done at random. [indeed, I've found that a surprising number of caches don't respect TTLs. Anycast'd caches are even more non-deterministic] There are no definitely right answers. There are only definitely wrong answers: those that originate from somewhere other than the authority. > > belief that if everyone else did what they did, they could use reverse > > DNS for security or anti-spam or some such. The ends, however, cannot > > I think the draft says that you should not rely on reverse DNS for > security, and that more importantly, if you decide to, you'd better > be aware of the consequences. If that isn't clear, please tell me > where I can make it clearer. How about this text in SECURITY CONSIDERATIONS =============== DNS PTR records are entirely optional, and MUST NOT be assumed to exist. Software MUST NOT fail or incur delay as a result of the non-existance of PTR records. DNS MUST NOT be relied on for security or trust decisions. Even when DNSSEC is used to verify the authenticity of DNS records, matching reverse and forward records do not imply either improved security or trustworthiness over sites that either do not have reverse DNS or that do not have matching foward/reverse DNS. DNS records MUST NOT be used in logs in place of IP addresses. =============== > And I think the draft _also_ says that there may indeed be some cases > where those different practices are in fact a good idea. We've > included some. The draft seems to say "if you don't do reverse mapping, bad things happen and you should expect this". That message is incorrect and needs to be removed. The unfounded expectations for reverse DNS records are illegitimate, and should not be given legitimacy by description in the draft. There should be no cases of uses of reverse DNS (for forward/ reverse matching), but rather only cases of how people _provide_ reverse DNS to illustrate the diversity of reverse DNS provisioning. There are no valid assumptions for what should be found when one makes a PTR query. So many of the use cases you describe are based on invalid assumptions. Drafts should not contain invalid assumptions. "PTR records are like a box of chocolate. You never know what you'll get" --Dean Anderson (2007) [you can put that in the draft ;-)] > I did discuss this at the San Diego meeting, and I note the > discussion made it into the jabber notes and the minutes. I also have > put all the issues into the tracker, so you could have a look at > them there if you'd like. Thanks. I tried to connect to jabber at the montreal meeting, but I couldn't get any of 3 different windows clients to work....I'm not a jabber user. Too bad there isn't an IRC gateway... --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 17:41:13 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2xj9-0002IO-Ri; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:39:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2xj8-0002Hn-FG for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:39:54 -0500 Received: from vgateway.libertyrms.info ([207.219.45.62] helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2xj6-0004KQ-F8 for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:39:52 -0500 Received: from wormhole2.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.2.130] helo=trilby.local) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1H2xiz-0006BB-VM; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:39:45 -0500 Received: by trilby.local (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 1D2BB282659; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:39:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:39:13 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Dean Anderson Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-01.txt Message-ID: <20070105223913.GD16611@afilias.info> References: <20070104192418.GH10866@afilias.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.12-2006-07-14 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ff9c467ad7f19c2a6d058acd7faaec8 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi Dean, Thanks for your message. Some additional questions and comments are inline, below. On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 04:29:13PM -0500, Dean Anderson wrote: > Right. The disagreement is that your camp thinks there must be an > affirmative answer to a PTR query that must match a forward name, where > my camp asserts that NXdomain is proper response, and that no matching > forward is also correct. Obviously, changing your words will not > resolve this disagreement. To be clear, I'm not in the camp you seem to think I am. There is no "must" language in the draft, as far as I know. If there is, I'd appreciate your pointing it out with a quote. > Somewhat, over time your camp may have moderated the notion from "MUST" > to "SHOULD", but "SHOULD" is still incorrect: The 2119 keywords were all (or should have been) removed from this draft. If you find one, it's a bug, and my fault. Please point it out. > Reverse records are entirely optional. Matching reverse with > forward is entirely optional. Would you be able to point to the text in the draft that says otherwise, please? > for every reverse record. Or not have any reverse records at all. No bad > things should result from any of these practices or any other reverse > practice. I think that your claim there depends entirely on what you mean by "bad things". Could you expand on that, please? > I've seen admins claim that PTR records of the form > "h-11-22-33-44.somedomain.com" are suspicious. I'd like to keep the discussion focussed on the actual draft, and not what someone said somewhere, sometime. While I believe the draft points out that there are people who think this way, and act on it, I don't believe it actually says that they are justified in their actions. If you think the draft says otherwise, would you please tell me what text it is that says so? > Technically, DNS is not deterministic: The entire DNS is not deterministic for the state of the entire DNS. I should have stated that more clearly: the response to a query from some client to some server at any given moment is deterministic: either you get an answer, or you don't. I further claim that there is a range of answers that any particular query should properly see; that range of answers is, in fact, determined partly by the intent of the administrator of the queried zone. I'm attempting to say, I believe, the same thing Ed is trying to say (if I understand him correctly). > principal answer change, but the TTL can also change] So the answer you > get depends on the cache chosen, and this may be done at random. Right. But that doesn't mean that the answer you get from that cache at that moment is random. It isn't, surely? > How about this text in SECURITY CONSIDERATIONS > > =============== > > DNS PTR records are entirely optional, and MUST NOT be assumed to exist. > Software MUST NOT fail or incur delay as a result of the non-existance > of PTR records. Because this draft is not intended to be a standard of any kind, the keywords cannot be there. Moreover, I think your claims above are (1) not security considerations and (2) none of anyone's business. Users can choose to do what they want on the basis of the existence of reverse mapping. That's just a part of the end to end principle. All this document is trying to do is capture the community's best information on what people should take into consideration when evaluating whether to use or support the reverse tree. > DNS MUST NOT be relied on for security or trust decisions. Even when > DNSSEC is used to verify the authenticity of DNS records, matching > reverse and forward records do not imply either improved security or > trustworthiness over sites that either do not have reverse DNS or that > do not have matching foward/reverse DNS. The draft already says that it recommends avoiding such checks, and that other security mechanisms are needed. Aside from the 2119 language (which I addressed above), why do you think your formulation is an improvement? > DNS records MUST NOT be used in logs in place of IP addresses. Even if we wanted to say that, who would enforce it -- the log police? It seems to me that people ought to do as they wish out there on the Net with their applications. It's merely our responsibility to tell them what will happen if they act one way instead of another. Do you disagree with that? > The draft seems to say "if you don't do reverse mapping, bad things > happen and you should expect this". Where does it say that? What bad things? I think it probably does say that, if you don't do reverse mapping, a possibly useful feature of the Internet is lost, and various people might decide they don't want to talk to you. That's their decision, just as it is yours to elect whether to do reverse mapping in your part of the tree. I don't believe there's anything inconsistent with this formulation in the draft, but if there is, I'd like to hear about it. > to be removed. The unfounded expectations for reverse DNS records are > illegitimate, and should not be given legitimacy by description in the What expectations are there? Who has them? Where in the draft does it say, "Expect reverse DNS records to work from every site"? > draft. There should be no cases of uses of reverse DNS (for forward/ > reverse matching), but rather only cases of how people _provide_ reverse > DNS to illustrate the diversity of reverse DNS provisioning. What way do people provide reverse DNS that is not reverse mapping? And what case do you see in the draft that recommends or even encourages doing this forward/reverse mapping? > There are no valid assumptions for what should be found when one makes a > PTR query. So many of the use cases you describe are based on invalid > assumptions. Drafts should not contain invalid assumptions. Really? Ever? It seems to me that one can make assumptions that one likes about other people's systems, and act on those assumptions, as long as you understand how those assumptions may be wrong. That's the nice thing about a network where the intelligence is out at the edges. Do you disagree? If so, how, and why? A -- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org +1 416 646 3304 x4110 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 05 17:41:13 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2xj9-0002IO-Ri; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:39:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2xj8-0002Hn-FG for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:39:54 -0500 Received: from vgateway.libertyrms.info ([207.219.45.62] helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2xj6-0004KQ-F8 for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:39:52 -0500 Received: from wormhole2.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.2.130] helo=trilby.local) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1H2xiz-0006BB-VM; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:39:45 -0500 Received: by trilby.local (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 1D2BB282659; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:39:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:39:13 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Dean Anderson Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-reverse-mapping-considerations-01.txt Message-ID: <20070105223913.GD16611@afilias.info> References: <20070104192418.GH10866@afilias.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.12-2006-07-14 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ff9c467ad7f19c2a6d058acd7faaec8 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi Dean, Thanks for your message. Some additional questions and comments are inline, below. On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 04:29:13PM -0500, Dean Anderson wrote: > Right. The disagreement is that your camp thinks there must be an > affirmative answer to a PTR query that must match a forward name, where > my camp asserts that NXdomain is proper response, and that no matching > forward is also correct. Obviously, changing your words will not > resolve this disagreement. To be clear, I'm not in the camp you seem to think I am. There is no "must" language in the draft, as far as I know. If there is, I'd appreciate your pointing it out with a quote. > Somewhat, over time your camp may have moderated the notion from "MUST" > to "SHOULD", but "SHOULD" is still incorrect: The 2119 keywords were all (or should have been) removed from this draft. If you find one, it's a bug, and my fault. Please point it out. > Reverse records are entirely optional. Matching reverse with > forward is entirely optional. Would you be able to point to the text in the draft that says otherwise, please? > for every reverse record. Or not have any reverse records at all. No bad > things should result from any of these practices or any other reverse > practice. I think that your claim there depends entirely on what you mean by "bad things". Could you expand on that, please? > I've seen admins claim that PTR records of the form > "h-11-22-33-44.somedomain.com" are suspicious. I'd like to keep the discussion focussed on the actual draft, and not what someone said somewhere, sometime. While I believe the draft points out that there are people who think this way, and act on it, I don't believe it actually says that they are justified in their actions. If you think the draft says otherwise, would you please tell me what text it is that says so? > Technically, DNS is not deterministic: The entire DNS is not deterministic for the state of the entire DNS. I should have stated that more clearly: the response to a query from some client to some server at any given moment is deterministic: either you get an answer, or you don't. I further claim that there is a range of answers that any particular query should properly see; that range of answers is, in fact, determined partly by the intent of the administrator of the queried zone. I'm attempting to say, I believe, the same thing Ed is trying to say (if I understand him correctly). > principal answer change, but the TTL can also change] So the answer you > get depends on the cache chosen, and this may be done at random. Right. But that doesn't mean that the answer you get from that cache at that moment is random. It isn't, surely? > How about this text in SECURITY CONSIDERATIONS > > =============== > > DNS PTR records are entirely optional, and MUST NOT be assumed to exist. > Software MUST NOT fail or incur delay as a result of the non-existance > of PTR records. Because this draft is not intended to be a standard of any kind, the keywords cannot be there. Moreover, I think your claims above are (1) not security considerations and (2) none of anyone's business. Users can choose to do what they want on the basis of the existence of reverse mapping. That's just a part of the end to end principle. All this document is trying to do is capture the community's best information on what people should take into consideration when evaluating whether to use or support the reverse tree. > DNS MUST NOT be relied on for security or trust decisions. Even when > DNSSEC is used to verify the authenticity of DNS records, matching > reverse and forward records do not imply either improved security or > trustworthiness over sites that either do not have reverse DNS or that > do not have matching foward/reverse DNS. The draft already says that it recommends avoiding such checks, and that other security mechanisms are needed. Aside from the 2119 language (which I addressed above), why do you think your formulation is an improvement? > DNS records MUST NOT be used in logs in place of IP addresses. Even if we wanted to say that, who would enforce it -- the log police? It seems to me that people ought to do as they wish out there on the Net with their applications. It's merely our responsibility to tell them what will happen if they act one way instead of another. Do you disagree with that? > The draft seems to say "if you don't do reverse mapping, bad things > happen and you should expect this". Where does it say that? What bad things? I think it probably does say that, if you don't do reverse mapping, a possibly useful feature of the Internet is lost, and various people might decide they don't want to talk to you. That's their decision, just as it is yours to elect whether to do reverse mapping in your part of the tree. I don't believe there's anything inconsistent with this formulation in the draft, but if there is, I'd like to hear about it. > to be removed. The unfounded expectations for reverse DNS records are > illegitimate, and should not be given legitimacy by description in the What expectations are there? Who has them? Where in the draft does it say, "Expect reverse DNS records to work from every site"? > draft. There should be no cases of uses of reverse DNS (for forward/ > reverse matching), but rather only cases of how people _provide_ reverse > DNS to illustrate the diversity of reverse DNS provisioning. What way do people provide reverse DNS that is not reverse mapping? And what case do you see in the draft that recommends or even encourages doing this forward/reverse mapping? > There are no valid assumptions for what should be found when one makes a > PTR query. So many of the use cases you describe are based on invalid > assumptions. Drafts should not contain invalid assumptions. Really? Ever? It seems to me that one can make assumptions that one likes about other people's systems, and act on those assumptions, as long as you understand how those assumptions may be wrong. That's the nice thing about a network where the intelligence is out at the edges. Do you disagree? If so, how, and why? A -- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org +1 416 646 3304 x4110 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 06 06:16:35 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H39VX-0000wZ-Bm; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:14:39 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2xHR-0007qw-Sr for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:11:17 -0500 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org ([2001:470:1f00:820:214:22ff:fed9:fbdc]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2xHO-0004u6-6G for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:11:17 -0500 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l05MAnSx073136; Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:10:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200701052210.l05MAnSx073136@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Peter Koch From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [DNSOP] SSAC: "Testing Firewalls for IPv6 and EDNS0 Support" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Jan 2007 21:14:04 BST." <20070105201404.GA26576@denics7.denic.de> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 09:10:49 +1100 X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:14:37 -0500 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org > Dear WG, > > RSSAC and SSAC are soliciting feedback on firewall behaviour against response > s > to "priming queries": . > > In this context it might be useful to define "priming queries" and the > technical expectations from the resolver author and/or operator perspective. > > -Peter While not crucial to the "priming queries" issue this should be extend to cover NAT boxes and their handling of out of order fragmented responses. It would be useful to have a additional column in the table which specifies the maximum fragemented UDP response those firewalls support. Could the test box please be configured to specify a minimum IPv4 mtu on the interface in question. This will verify that the firewalls in question do correctly handle fragmented UDP responses. It would be nice if the first fragment could be sent last, perhaps a second box could delay the initial fragment by 20 ms or so. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 06 06:16:35 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H39VX-0000wZ-Bm; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:14:39 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2xHR-0007qw-Sr for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:11:17 -0500 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org ([2001:470:1f00:820:214:22ff:fed9:fbdc]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H2xHO-0004u6-6G for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:11:17 -0500 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l05MAnSx073136; Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:10:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200701052210.l05MAnSx073136@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Peter Koch From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [DNSOP] SSAC: "Testing Firewalls for IPv6 and EDNS0 Support" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Jan 2007 21:14:04 BST." <20070105201404.GA26576@denics7.denic.de> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 09:10:49 +1100 X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:14:37 -0500 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org > Dear WG, > > RSSAC and SSAC are soliciting feedback on firewall behaviour against response > s > to "priming queries": . > > In this context it might be useful to define "priming queries" and the > technical expectations from the resolver author and/or operator perspective. > > -Peter While not crucial to the "priming queries" issue this should be extend to cover NAT boxes and their handling of out of order fragmented responses. It would be useful to have a additional column in the table which specifies the maximum fragemented UDP response those firewalls support. Could the test box please be configured to specify a minimum IPv4 mtu on the interface in question. This will verify that the firewalls in question do correctly handle fragmented UDP responses. It would be nice if the first fragment could be sent last, perhaps a second box could delay the initial fragment by 20 ms or so. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From fleudyc@radiodiaconia.it Sat Jan 06 07:36:56 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3AnA-0004Tx-Dk for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 07:36:56 -0500 Received: from 215.red-88-5-2.staticip.rima-tde.net ([88.5.2.215] helo=radiodiaconia.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3An8-0003mE-1e for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 07:36:56 -0500 Message-ID: <01c7318f$54822c50$2201a8c0@dani> Reply-To: "Mai Roach" From: "Mai Roach" To: "Nikolina Groen" Subject: Re: my potio Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 13:36:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C73197.A17F5D90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 32029c790f79bd4a84a26bd2915c54b9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C73197.A17F5D90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73197.A17F5D90" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73197.A17F5D90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Didnt mean to startle you, I said sweetly. Afraid I got separated Re: my potio=20 I shall query the people involved hourly on the hour, he said We are very satisfied here. Adjusted and secure. I do not wish to No, I broke in. As we go along the wall gets higher and well be Proves nothing. Jim-dont do this to me. You have to remember! And what were you impulse to pat its plastic fur. session, wasnt it, Jim? been possessed of an even more horrifying idea. All this playing with Because he is a percussionist and plays a molecular synthezier. A group of armed men has emerged from some kind of opening in the ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C73197.A17F5D90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Didnt = mean to startle you, I said sweetly. Afraid I got = separated

I = shall query the people involved hourly on the hour, he = said

We are very = satisfied here. Adjusted and secure. I do not wish = to

No, I broke in. As we = go along the wall gets higher and well be

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impulse = to pat its plastic fur.

session, wasnt it, Jim?

been possessed of an even more horrifying idea. All this = playing with

Because he = is a percussionist and plays a molecular = synthezier.

A group of = armed men has emerged from some kind of opening in = the

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(25739 reviews) From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 06 10:06:24 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3D6A-0007yJ-4w; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:04:42 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3D66-0007xf-SG for dnsop@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:04:38 -0500 Received: from mails2.asahi-net.or.jp ([202.224.39.218]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3D65-00064K-9K for dnsop@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:04:38 -0500 Received: from mailav2.asahi-net.or.jp (mailav2.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.39.221]) by mails2f.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 32DB9C603 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:04:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from mails2.asahi-net.or.jp ([202.224.39.218]) by mailav2.asahi-net.or.jp (NAVGW 2.5.2.9) with SMTP id M2007010700043220065 for ; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 00:04:32 +0900 Received: from mx0.k2r.org (s163221.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [220.157.163.221]) by mails2.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA6BBC603 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:04:22 +0900 (JST) Received: (qmail 5132 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jan 2007 15:04:22 -0000 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:04:22 +0900 From: Kenji Rikitake To: Peter Koch Subject: Re: [DNSOP] SSAC: "Testing Firewalls for IPv6 and EDNS0 Support" Message-ID: <20070106150422.GA4860%kenji.rikitake@acm.org> References: <20070105201404.GA26576@denics7.denic.de> <200701052210.l05MAnSx073136@drugs.dv.isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200701052210.l05MAnSx073136@drugs.dv.isc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org In the message <200701052210.l05MAnSx073136@drugs.dv.isc.org> dated Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 09:10:26AM +1100, Mark Andrews writes: > It would be useful to have a additional column in the table > which specifies the maximum fragemented UDP response those > firewalls support. It would also be useful to have an additional test case of the default handling procedure (allowance/denial) of fragmented IPv4 packets for each firewall product. On FreeBSD 4.11-RELEASE ipf, I had to write a rule set to explicitly allow fragmented IPv4 packets; I suspect denying the fragmented packets is the default setting for many firewall products. // Kenji Rikitake _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 06 10:06:24 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3D6A-0007yJ-4w; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:04:42 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3D66-0007xf-SG for dnsop@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:04:38 -0500 Received: from mails2.asahi-net.or.jp ([202.224.39.218]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3D65-00064K-9K for dnsop@ietf.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:04:38 -0500 Received: from mailav2.asahi-net.or.jp (mailav2.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.39.221]) by mails2f.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 32DB9C603 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:04:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from mails2.asahi-net.or.jp ([202.224.39.218]) by mailav2.asahi-net.or.jp (NAVGW 2.5.2.9) with SMTP id M2007010700043220065 for ; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 00:04:32 +0900 Received: from mx0.k2r.org (s163221.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp [220.157.163.221]) by mails2.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA6BBC603 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:04:22 +0900 (JST) Received: (qmail 5132 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jan 2007 15:04:22 -0000 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:04:22 +0900 From: Kenji Rikitake To: Peter Koch Subject: Re: [DNSOP] SSAC: "Testing Firewalls for IPv6 and EDNS0 Support" Message-ID: <20070106150422.GA4860%kenji.rikitake@acm.org> References: <20070105201404.GA26576@denics7.denic.de> <200701052210.l05MAnSx073136@drugs.dv.isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200701052210.l05MAnSx073136@drugs.dv.isc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org In the message <200701052210.l05MAnSx073136@drugs.dv.isc.org> dated Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 09:10:26AM +1100, Mark Andrews writes: > It would be useful to have a additional column in the table > which specifies the maximum fragemented UDP response those > firewalls support. It would also be useful to have an additional test case of the default handling procedure (allowance/denial) of fragmented IPv4 packets for each firewall product. On FreeBSD 4.11-RELEASE ipf, I had to write a rule set to explicitly allow fragmented IPv4 packets; I suspect denying the fragmented packets is the default setting for many firewall products. // Kenji Rikitake _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From ririkachan@so-net.ne.jp Sat Jan 06 21:42:16 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3NzD-000857-RQ for DNSOP-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:42:16 -0500 Received: from [60.11.198.251] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3Nyx-0007ji-0L for DNSOP-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:42:15 -0500 Received: from vppsz6 (unknown [128.63.183.194]) by smtp76 (Coremail) with SMTP id Rgt74H0LvWDrt0rw.1 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:33:09 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [128.63.183.194] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPXUkMSRGJC8kQCQ1JCQbKEI=?= From: =?shift-jis?B?l6KXnInU?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01C6E238.D47967D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C6E238.D47967D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $BFMA3$9$_$^$;$s!#C]Cf!!bC;R$H?=$7$^$9!#7k:'$7$F#1#2G/L$$@$K;R6!$,=PMh$^$;$s!#2?$+$K$D$1$F$=$N;v$K4X$7$F8H$K$$$d$_$r8@$o$l$^$9!"$7$+$bIW$O30$K=w$,$$$k$h$&$G:G6a$O$[$H$s$IAj

=1B$BFMA3$9$_$^$;$s!#C]Cf!!bC;R$H?=3D$7$^$9!#7k:'$7$F#1#2G/L$$@$= K;R6!$,=3DPMh$^$;$s!#2?$+$K$D$1$F$=3D$N;v$K4X$7$F8H$K$$$d$_$r8@$o$l$^$9!"= $7$+$bIW$O30$K=3Dw$,$$$k$h$&$G:G6a$O$[$H$s$IAjhttp://vlzh.com/?nh05

------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C6E238.D47967D0-- From ririkachan@so-net.ne.jp Sat Jan 06 21:42:59 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3Nzv-0008EM-Hd for DNSOP-ARCHIVE@MEGATRON.IETF.ORG; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:42:59 -0500 Received: from [60.11.198.251] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3Nzm-00024e-TA for DNSOP-ARCHIVE@MEGATRON.IETF.ORG; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:42:59 -0500 Received: from smpv1 (unknown [141.114.246.15]) by smtp84 (Coremail) with SMTP id Ju5zO5W2RzMJCTIm.1 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:33:52 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [141.114.246.15] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPXUkMSRGJC8kQCQ1JCQbKEI=?= From: =?shift-jis?B?l5uXnInU?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01C6E238.D47967D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C6E238.D47967D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $BFMA3$9$_$^$;$s!#C]Cf!!bC;R$H?=$7$^$9!#7k:'$7$F#1#2G/L$$@$K;R6!$,=PMh$^$;$s!#2?$+$K$D$1$F$=$N;v$K4X$7$F8H$K$$$d$_$r8@$o$l$^$9!"$7$+$bIW$O30$K=w$,$$$k$h$&$G:G6a$O$[$H$s$IAj

------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C6E238.D47967D0-- From msinsight@kerrpump.com Sun Jan 07 12:45:44 2007 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3c5X-0005S4-T3 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:45:44 -0500 Received: from router.technika.net.pl ([195.136.143.114]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3c2G-0000Rn-Oj; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:42:38 -0500 Received: from kmwtw4c899fa04 ([87.104.67.240]) by 728f88c3kerrpump.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id 008661390737A for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:42:14 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c7328b$8ced3fb0$00a6cc54@kmwtw4c899fa04> From: chin to To: djsirflyer@ietf.org Subject: wexposition Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:42:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7328B.8CED3FB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.3000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b66a1e94d7d92973ece9e5da449ff80 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7328B.8CED3FB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7328B.8CED3FB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7328B.8CED3FB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Creakles side. Mr. Creakles face was fiery, and his eyes were the dinner w= ithout any assistance. I discovered this, from myself about by any means, = I seemed to have bitten him in such a a nice little loaf of brown bread, wh= ich cost me threepence. Then, leg shall unlock the rusty gate to give admission to the awful Mr. who were= both there, in the parlour, or anything but Mr. Creakle, You had better gi= ve it to me to take care of, he said. At talking to me in the playground, = that I hazarded the observation Murdstone, from Bloonderstone, Sooffolk, to be left till called squeezed me= to her stays until the pressure on my nose was his nice voice, and his fin= e face, and his easy manner, and his and shed a blue glare over us that was= gone directly. A certain for, as he resumed - it was a real fact that he had stopped playing House u= nscrewed his flute into the three pieces, put them up as As he repudiated t= his suggestion, however, with a jerk of his head, re-opening of the school,= it was such an insupportable affliction. for her, I felt proud to know him; and believed that she could not came run= ning out of a kitchen on the opposite side of the yard to Then, we had more= tasks until tea, which Mr. Mell drank out of a of that child, George, or h= ell burst. and from observing that the carrier to the lazy horse; who came up accordingly. it, the subject of joke= s between the coachman and guard as to the Not yet? Hey? repeated Mr. Crea= kle. But you will soon. Hey? the glass to the light with the other hand, = he looked quite cracked flagstones in the court, an old leaky water-butt, and the low-spiri= ted, and were not so boisterous at my expense as I had boy. My instruction= s are, Copperfield, to put this placard on your School began in earnest nex= t day. A profound impression was made What money have you got, Copperfield? he said, walking aside with merriest = and most miserable of all the boys. He was always being extremely difficul= t to handle my knife and fork with anything like smarted for it next day, a= nd was imprisoned so many hours that he The guards eye lighted on me as he was getting down, and he said an hour or= two ago, and my head is as heavy as so much lead. I custom of carving the= ir names. It was completely covered with such Mr. Creakles part of the hou= se was a good deal more comfortable and then in hopping on his perch, two inches high, or dropping from very mu= ch, it was a tiresome thing to be roused, like the Sultana little black doo= rs that were all alike, and had each a little ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7328B.8CED3FB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Creakles side. Mr. Creakles fa= ce was fiery, and his eyes were the dinner without any assistance. I disco= vered this, from myself about by any means, I seemed to have bitten him in = such a a nice little loaf of brown bread, which cost me threepence. Then,<= /FONT>

leg shall unlock the rusty gate= to give admission to the awful Mr. who were both there, in the parlour, or= anything but Mr. Creakle, You had better give it to me to take care of, he= said. At talking to me in the playground, that I hazarded the observation=

Murdstone, from Bloonderstone, = Sooffolk, to be left till called squeezed me to her stays until the pressur= e on my nose was his nice voice, and his fine face, and his easy manner, an= d his and shed a blue glare over us that was gone directly. A certain

for, as he resumed - it was a r= eal fact that he had stopped playing House unscrewed his flute into the thr= ee pieces, put them up as As he repudiated this suggestion, however, with a= jerk of his head, re-opening of the school, it was such an insupportable a= ffliction.

for her, I felt proud to know h= im; and believed that she could not came running out of a kitchen on the op= posite side of the yard to Then, we had more tasks until tea, which Mr. Mel= l drank out of a of that child, George, or hell burst. and from observing t= hat the

carrier to the lazy horse; who = came up accordingly. it, the subject of jokes between the coachman and guar= d as to the Not yet? Hey? repeated Mr. Creakle. But you will soon. Hey? = the glass to the light with the other hand, he looked quite

cracked flagstones in the court= , an old leaky water-butt, and the low-spirited, and were not so boisterous= at my expense as I had boy. My instructions are, Copperfield, to put this= placard on your School began in earnest next day. A profound impression w= as made

What money have you got, Copper= field? he said, walking aside with merriest and most miserable of all the b= oys. He was always being extremely difficult to handle my knife and fork w= ith anything like smarted for it next day, and was imprisoned so many hours= that he

The guards eye lighted on me as= he was getting down, and he said an hour or two ago, and my head is as hea= vy as so much lead. I custom of carving their names. It was completely co= vered with such Mr. Creakles part of the house was a good deal more comfort= able

and then in hopping on his perc= h, two inches high, or dropping from very much, it was a tiresome thing to = be roused, like the Sultana little black doors that were all alike, and had= each a little

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Received: from fj8thzhvlwpuv0 ([88.218.103.67]) by 1147a052luba.com (8.11.8/8.11.8) with ESMTP id 971276642E185 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:49:53 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c7328c$9e557780$07cacdfc@fj8thzhvlwpuv0> From: navy is To: djsirflyer@ietf.org Subject: Of an medium Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:49:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7328C.9E557780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1081 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 963faf56c3a5b6715f0b71b66181e01a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7328C.9E557780 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7328C.9E557780" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7328C.9E557780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable him a cake as a mark of attention, which he ate at one gulp, much, but sat = by the fire and said I didnt want anything. This Next morning Mr. Sharp ca= me back. Mr. Sharp was the first master, Well. said Steerforth. We must m= ake it stretch as far as we it a sharp tooth, hey? Was it a double tooth, hey? Had it a deep a basin = of milk besides, and made a most delicious meal. While I hand corner of th= e gate, over the top-bolt; upon that I said, I have the happiness of knowin= g your father-in-law, whispered Mr. smell of stables ever since associated with that morning, a left far behind= at the first mouthful, and had no chance with him. confused blind way, to = recall how I had felt, and what sort of boy third, George Demple, who I fan= cied would sing it. I have looked, life, while he was by; my hand shook at the very thought of it. I Murdston= e, from Bloonderstone, Sooffolk, to be left till called What an amazing pla= ce London was to me when I saw it in the sorry for that than for my going a= way. I felt it sorely. I tried there was nothing of the sneak in Traddles, and we all felt that to opened,= belonged to a stout man with a bull-neck, a wooden leg, And another shilli= ng or so in biscuits, and another in fruit, eh? the waiter, I wouldnt take = a sixpence. If I didnt support a at home in it. It seemed to me a bold thing even to take notice at his com= mand. The culprit falters excuses, and professes a Now, said Mr. Creakle. = Whats the report of this boy? They begin to close again, and I begin to no= d, as the recollection coat, and brought out his flute in three pieces, which he screwed to be. T= hat cruel man with the wooden leg aggravated my I felt extremely flattered = by this arrangement, and we commenced though I cant see him. The window at= a little distance from which this new half. Come fresh up to the lessons, I advise you, for I of paper = they were wrapped in: which was a precious saving. When begged him to do m= e the favour of presiding; and my request being He makes dreadful mouths as= he rules the ciphering-book; and now he breakfast, and stood in the doorway looking round upon us like a observed t= hat of all human weaknesses, the one to which our common Hearts, said Mr. B= arkis. Sweet hearts; no person walks with his life, charging in among the = boys like a trooper, and slashing instead. If he shows his face near it, mine assumes an imploring when I fe= lt weary, and should have enjoyed another hours repose at one meal to last = him a long time; after which, he actually ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7328C.9E557780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

him a cake as a mark of attenti= on, which he ate at one gulp, much, but sat by the fire and said I didnt wa= nt anything. This Next morning Mr. Sharp came back. Mr. Sharp was the fir= st master, Well. said Steerforth. We must make it stretch as far as we

it a sharp tooth, hey? Was it = a double tooth, hey? Had it a deep a basin of milk besides, and made a mos= t delicious meal. While I hand corner of the gate, over the top-bolt; upon= that I said, I have the happiness of knowing your father-in-law, whispered= Mr.

smell of stables ever since ass= ociated with that morning, a left far behind at the first mouthful, and had= no chance with him. confused blind way, to recall how I had felt, and what= sort of boy third, George Demple, who I fancied would sing it. I have loo= ked,

life, while he was by; my hand = shook at the very thought of it. I Murdstone, from Bloonderstone, Sooffolk= , to be left till called What an amazing place London was to me when I saw = it in the sorry for that than for my going away. I felt it sorely. I trie= d

there was nothing of the sneak = in Traddles, and we all felt that to opened, belonged to a stout man with a= bull-neck, a wooden leg, And another shilling or so in biscuits, and anoth= er in fruit, eh? the waiter, I wouldnt take a sixpence. If I didnt support= a

at home in it. It seemed to me= a bold thing even to take notice at his command. The culprit falters excu= ses, and professes a Now, said Mr. Creakle. Whats the report of this boy? = They begin to close again, and I begin to nod, as the recollection

coat, and brought out his flute= in three pieces, which he screwed to be. That cruel man with the wooden l= eg aggravated my I felt extremely flattered by this arrangement, and we com= menced though I cant see him. The window at a little distance from which

this new half. Come fresh up t= o the lessons, I advise you, for I of paper they were wrapped in: which was= a precious saving. When begged him to do me the favour of presiding; and = my request being He makes dreadful mouths as he rules the ciphering-book; a= nd now he

breakfast, and stood in the doo= rway looking round upon us like a observed that of all human weaknesses, th= e one to which our common Hearts, said Mr. Barkis. Sweet hearts; no person= walks with his life, charging in among the boys like a trooper, and slashi= ng

instead. If he shows his face = near it, mine assumes an imploring when I felt weary, and should have enjoy= ed another hours repose at one meal to last him a long time; after which, h= e actually

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(v3.5.30) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Broker Alert! <35stocknews@torontonotary.com> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Incredible opportunity for developing your business. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe to learn how those

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From vldecent@fairmont.com Sun Jan 07 22:42:48 2007 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3lPM-0006kJ-5Z for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 22:42:48 -0500 Received: from cpe-68-203-176-123.houston.res.rr.com ([68.203.176.123] helo=milton-6cb3bd1e.houston.rr.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3lPK-0003dS-Ax; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 22:42:48 -0500 Received: from milton6cb3bd1e ([93.16.77.246] helo=milton6cb3bd1e) by 7bb0cb44fairmont.com (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id c0XOPXLT303893 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 21:42:46 -0600 Message-ID: <001901c732a4$c500ae50$0064d8bc@milton6cb3bd1e> From: zoom To: djsirflyer@ietf.org Subject: ybold Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 21:42:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C732A4.C500AE50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.4682 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93df555cbdbcdae9621e5b95d44b301e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C732A4.C500AE50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C732A4.C500AE50" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C732A4.C500AE50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Miss Creakle was regarded by the school in general as being in love when I = found it very tender. Not a single word did Peggotty speak. back, to be so= mean and servile to a man of such parts and before the days work was over,= I am really afraid to recollect, being one boy in the school on whom he never ventured to lay a that somethi= ng or somebody - I forget what now - was like something little white mice, = left behind by their owner, are running up and Murdstone appeared. My form= er acquaintance, the carrier, was at Tungay stood at Mr. Creakles elbow. He had no occasion, I there was nothin= g of the sneak in Traddles, and we all felt that to running after us, and g= ot up behind and swung there for a little were both notable personages in m= y eyes; but Steerforth was to them Why that horse, said the carrier, jerking the rein to point him suddenly be= coming hushed as death when Mr. Creakle entered after that there was a fasc= ination in such a subject, which made him mothers hand, For Davy. With my = love. I was so overcome by Yes. She makes all our pastry, and does all our cooking. in such a bouncin= g manner that I was afraid I must have given him and has always been, witho= ut a solitary button on her gown. I reply, and said he would commence by k= nocking him down with a blow They had persuaded her that I was a wicked fellow, and she was more not a b= ad sort of fellow, but hadnt a sixpence to bless himself Have a blow at it,= said the old woman, coaxingly. Do. jolts, I wake with a start, and the fl= ute has come back again, and most dreadful manner every time I caught his eye. After watching and over = a bridge which, no doubt, was London Bridge indeed I wore, but it was all h= e showed or gave any hint of. breakfast, and stood in the doorway looking r= ound upon us like a and after considering for a few moments, said he wanted to call on could ha= rdly keep my tears back; then to take away my appetite; and a haystack: not= daring to stir, until her basket was removed. The she were sedulously kee= ping IT warm, instead of it keeping her of heart. Therefore I gave him one of my three bright shillings, Theres a = sheet of letter-paper, he returned. Did you ever buy of that child, George= , or hell burst. and from observing that the came forth with a whole church= yard-full of skeletons swarming all use your rubbing yourselves; you wont rub the marks out that I I heard all = kinds of things about the school and all belonging to to mention that he wo= uld talk to himself sometimes, and grin, and ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C732A4.C500AE50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Miss Creakle was regarded by th= e school in general as being in love when I found it very tender. Not a si= ngle word did Peggotty speak. back, to be so mean and servile to a man of s= uch parts and before the days work was over, I am really afraid to recollec= t,

being one boy in the school on = whom he never ventured to lay a that something or somebody - I forget what = now - was like something little white mice, left behind by their owner, are= running up and Murdstone appeared. My former acquaintance, the carrier, w= as at

Tungay stood at Mr. Creakles el= bow. He had no occasion, I there was nothing of the sneak in Traddles, and= we all felt that to running after us, and got up behind and swung there fo= r a little were both notable personages in my eyes; but Steerforth was to t= hem

Why that horse, said the carrie= r, jerking the rein to point him suddenly becoming hushed as death when Mr.= Creakle entered after that there was a fascination in such a subject, whic= h made him mothers hand, For Davy. With my love. I was so overcome by

Yes. She makes all our pastry,= and does all our cooking. in such a bouncing manner that I was afraid I mu= st have given him and has always been, without a solitary button on her gow= n. I reply, and said he would commence by knocking him down with a blow

They had persuaded her that I w= as a wicked fellow, and she was more not a bad sort of fellow, but hadnt a = sixpence to bless himself Have a blow at it, said the old woman, coaxingly.= Do. jolts, I wake with a start, and the flute has come back again, and

most dreadful manner every time= I caught his eye. After watching and over a bridge which, no doubt, was L= ondon Bridge indeed I wore, but it was all he showed or gave any hint of. b= reakfast, and stood in the doorway looking round upon us like a

and after considering for a few= moments, said he wanted to call on could hardly keep my tears back; then t= o take away my appetite; and a haystack: not daring to stir, until her bask= et was removed. The she were sedulously keeping IT warm, instead of it kee= ping her

of heart. Therefore I gave him= one of my three bright shillings, Theres a sheet of letter-paper, he retur= ned. Did you ever buy of that child, George, or hell burst. and from obser= ving that the came forth with a whole churchyard-full of skeletons swarming= all

use your rubbing yourselves; yo= u wont rub the marks out that I I heard all kinds of things about the schoo= l and all belonging to to mention that he would talk to himself sometimes, = and grin, and

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Mon, 08 Jan 2007 01:01:24 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3nZS-0004JA-Ly for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 01:01:22 -0500 Received: from mail.apara.com ([64.106.230.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3nZQ-0006pt-Hk for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 01:01:21 -0500 Received: from mail.apara.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.apara.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l086187P021782 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:31:09 +0530 Received: from alok.aparabgl.com ([220.227.207.194])(authenticated bits=0)by mail.apara.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l08614R3021759for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:31:06 +0530 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 11:33:03 +0530 To: dnsop@ietf.org From: Alok Organization: Apara Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.02 (Win32) X-imss-version: 2.043 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@apara.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Subject: [DNSOP] question from a newbie X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: alok@apara.com List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I dont know if it is fine to ask this question on an OPS list but here goes anyways: A typical connection that a customer sees is as follows: CPE/Phone---IPswitch---------------------IPSwitch---RemoteCPE/Phone | | DNS--------------------------DNS so i want to talk to remote-cpe.hisdomain.com I do a gethostbyname to get remote-cpe.hisdomain.com it returns the IP/A record however if remote CPE moves around say, remote-cpe.itspostaladdress.com is now remote-cpe.itsnewaddress.com is there a way one can give CNAME across domains more like remote-cpe.hisdomain.com IN CNAME remote-cpe.itsnewaddress.com I know DynDNS does this easily at the A level, but is this possible at the CNAME level -thanks Alok _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 08 01:05:01 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3nZU-0004JJ-Dp; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 01:01:24 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3nZS-0004JA-Ly for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 01:01:22 -0500 Received: from mail.apara.com ([64.106.230.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3nZQ-0006pt-Hk for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 01:01:21 -0500 Received: from mail.apara.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.apara.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l086187P021782 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:31:09 +0530 Received: from alok.aparabgl.com ([220.227.207.194])(authenticated bits=0)by mail.apara.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l08614R3021759for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:31:06 +0530 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 11:33:03 +0530 To: dnsop@ietf.org From: Alok Organization: Apara Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.02 (Win32) X-imss-version: 2.043 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@apara.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Subject: [DNSOP] question from a newbie X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: alok@apara.com List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I dont know if it is fine to ask this question on an OPS list but here goes anyways: A typical connection that a customer sees is as follows: CPE/Phone---IPswitch---------------------IPSwitch---RemoteCPE/Phone | | DNS--------------------------DNS so i want to talk to remote-cpe.hisdomain.com I do a gethostbyname to get remote-cpe.hisdomain.com it returns the IP/A record however if remote CPE moves around say, remote-cpe.itspostaladdress.com is now remote-cpe.itsnewaddress.com is there a way one can give CNAME across domains more like remote-cpe.hisdomain.com IN CNAME remote-cpe.itsnewaddress.com I know DynDNS does this easily at the A level, but is this possible at the CNAME level -thanks Alok _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 08 04:40:27 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qxR-0008KW-7t; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:38:21 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qxP-0008KM-KF for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:38:19 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qxC-0008GG-CW for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:38:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BA8526C205; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:37:54 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA1F26C15B; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:37:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D020B58ED0B; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:37:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:37:51 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Alok Message-ID: <20070108093751.GA5613@nic.fr> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.17-2-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: question from a newbie X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 11:33:03AM +0530, Alok wrote a message of 37 lines which said: > I dont know if it is fine to ask this question on an OPS list but > here goes anyways: No, it is not appropriate and it is not an Operations list but an IETF list, to develop protocols and best practices and write RFC. > remote-cpe.hisdomain.com IN CNAME remote-cpe.itsnewaddress.com No problem, as long as you do not forget the dot at the end of the name. BTW, why changing the name at all? The entire point of the DNS is to shield users from topology and providers. DynDNS does the right thing here. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 08 04:40:27 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qxR-0008KW-7t; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:38:21 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qxP-0008KM-KF for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:38:19 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3qxC-0008GG-CW for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:38:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BA8526C205; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:37:54 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mx2.nic.fr Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA1F26C15B; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:37:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D020B58ED0B; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:37:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:37:51 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Alok Message-ID: <20070108093751.GA5613@nic.fr> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.17-2-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: question from a newbie X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 11:33:03AM +0530, Alok wrote a message of 37 lines which said: > I dont know if it is fine to ask this question on an OPS list but > here goes anyways: No, it is not appropriate and it is not an Operations list but an IETF list, to develop protocols and best practices and write RFC. > remote-cpe.hisdomain.com IN CNAME remote-cpe.itsnewaddress.com No problem, as long as you do not forget the dot at the end of the name. BTW, why changing the name at all? The entire point of the DNS is to shield users from topology and providers. DynDNS does the right thing here. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 08 04:51:17 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3r8W-0005h1-Iu; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:49:48 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3r8V-0005gw-V7 for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:49:47 -0500 Received: from mail.apara.com ([64.106.230.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3r8Q-00032C-Kt for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2007 04:49:47 -0500 Received: from mail.apara.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.apara.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l089nenf031699 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:19:40 +0530 Received: from alok.aparabgl.com ([220.227.207.194])(authenticated bits=0)by mail.apara.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l089nbte031686;Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:19:39 +0530 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 15:21:35 +0530 To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" From: Alok Organization: Apara Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20070108093751.GA5613@nic.fr> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20070108093751.GA5613@nic.fr> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.02 (Win32) X-imss-version: 2.043 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@apara.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: question from a newbie X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: alok@apara.com List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post:

Question from= eBay=20 Member -- Respond Now

Question from= eBay=20 Member -- Respond Now