From sherrie.hedgepeth@adultxcash.com Thu Nov 01 01:25:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InSYJ-0006H8-NW for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:25:11 -0400 Received: from host-62-10-155-105.cust-adsl.tiscali.it ([62.10.155.105] helo=host-62-10-147-142.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InSYI-0008Nf-TS for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:25:11 -0400 Received: by 10.16.132.22 with SMTP id uLCxFDFwiAdac; Thu, 1 Nov 2007 06:25:17 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.107.43 with SMTP id vWIPOdLpCPzvmo.6781182118502; Thu, 1 Nov 2007 06:25:15 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <000c01c81c47$937281f0$8e930a3e@utentec56haity> From: "sherrie hedgepeth" To: Subject: noks Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 06:25:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C81C4F.F536E9F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C81C4F.F536E9F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hello comrades dnsop-archive yes you were born with a little dick but you can change it today http://ccaanet.com/ sherrie hedgepeth ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C81C4F.F536E9F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hello comrades dnsop-archive
yes you were born with a little dick but you = can change=20 it today
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sherrie hedgepeth
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C81C4F.F536E9F0-- From gsanchezm@hytxt.com Thu Nov 01 05:09:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InW2x-0001Me-1Y; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 05:09:03 -0400 Received: from athedsl-247675.home.otenet.gr ([85.73.15.25] helo=SpeedTouch.lan) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InW2h-00068H-0Q; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 05:08:49 -0400 Received: from [85.73.15.25] by mailforward.telivo.com; Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:08:46 +0200 Message-ID: <01c81c77$9260ea10$190f4955@gsanchezm> From: "Melinda Ortiz" To: Subject: Adobe Photoshop CS3 $89.95 Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:08:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 Our price $79.95 adobe v8 Professional http://drenniyshmel.com From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 01 06:32:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InXGT-0005fx-VP; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:27:05 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InXGS-0005ek-1D for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:27:04 -0400 Received: from web26413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.177.55]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InXGR-0002PF-Bt for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:27:03 -0400 Received: (qmail 57417 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Nov 2007 10:27:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=FEEvv4HXBRezPwnVzeu0ua2yhYMosOU6xCYvN5QSPBhkLQxtNKIv6gtcGGDbxWUDSmmIjNL9woLFUmUPt3DJRUIkQ4nvOey4noYxD6IEVtFuR+MubsCIhgkGm31DfSEVlye7/LVyxgcW5SKE/CBpk2OSU1FbeUOmMf0QbBM9seQ=; X-YMail-OSG: h5dMsJEVM1kQPsIMqqlzMQmjjK36rR2Q5Y499JwnW1zsNZwoV0FmrgfMfYHUuuMYN2b32B.jzye_HUWLKML1blSj6MrU4a5aaIihtSP5JBRznSpVA.aI20riUII- Received: from [219.82.162.164] by web26413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:27:02 GMT Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:27:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Lican Huang Subject: Re: Fw: [DNSOP] Re: draft-licanhuang-dnsop-distributeddns-02 To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand , bortzmeyer@nic.fr, dnsop@ietf.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <186745.56699.qm@web26413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Cc: X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0832629828==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============0832629828== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-975907476-1193912822=:56699" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --0-975907476-1193912822=:56699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think it is reasonable to let resource name have a human-understanding meaning, not just unique ID. And I argue that every resource can be classifed into a hierarchical domain. I have proposed the resolution for universal resource name. Please see the following: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-licanhuang-dnsop-urnresolution-00.txt Domain name is originally for the easy memory of IP address. But, today, we can think about in this way. The domain name is allotted by authoritve organization according to provider's contents. It dosn't need and dosn't allowed to apply a domain name when organizations or persons that do not provider the corresponding contents and just want to sell the domain name for profit. Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: --On 17. oktober 2007 12:46 +0100 Lican Huang wrote: > > Dear Mr. Stephane Bortzmeyer, > I mean a server can have many domain names if the server is the > provider of many classified things. In the future, the lower layer > domain name can be registered by the user itself. This is true today. I register my own resources in my own domain. But - the DNS is not a directory. It offers no way to search for a name if you don't know exactly how it is spelled. Thus, putting stuff into the DNS tends to be useless as a classification scheme. So I fail to undestand how registering a domain name for a resource is useful when providing an URL for the same resource is so much more convenient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britney_Spears) Harald Alvestrand --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. --0-975907476-1193912822=:56699 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I think it is reasonable to let resource name have a human-understanding meaning, not just unique ID. And I argue that every resource can be classifed into a hierarchical domain. I have proposed the resolution for universal resource name. Please see the following:    
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-licanhuang-dnsop-urnresolution-00.txt
 
Domain name is originally for the easy memory of IP address.  But, today, we can think about in this way. The domain name is allotted by authoritve organization according to provider's contents. It dosn't  need and dosn't allowed to apply a domain name when organizations or  persons that do not provider the corresponding contents and  just want to sell  the domain name for profit.  

Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> wrote:


--On 17. oktober 2007 12:46 +0100 Lican Huang
wrote:

>
> Dear Mr. Stephane Bortzmeyer,
> I mean a server can have many domain names if the server is the
> provider of many classified things. In the future, the lower layer
> domain name can be registered by the user itself.

This is true today. I register my own resources in my own domain.

But - the DNS is not a directory. It offers no way to search for a name if
you don't know exactly how it is spelled. Thus, putting stuff into the DNS
tends to be useless as a classification scheme.

So I fail to undestand how registering a domain name for a resource is
useful when providing an URL for the same resource is so much more
convenient

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britney_Spears)

Harald Alvestrand

Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. --0-975907476-1193912822=:56699-- --===============0832629828== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --===============0832629828==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 01 06:32:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InXGT-0005fx-VP; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:27:05 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InXGS-0005ek-1D for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:27:04 -0400 Received: from web26413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.177.55]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InXGR-0002PF-Bt for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:27:03 -0400 Received: (qmail 57417 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Nov 2007 10:27:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=FEEvv4HXBRezPwnVzeu0ua2yhYMosOU6xCYvN5QSPBhkLQxtNKIv6gtcGGDbxWUDSmmIjNL9woLFUmUPt3DJRUIkQ4nvOey4noYxD6IEVtFuR+MubsCIhgkGm31DfSEVlye7/LVyxgcW5SKE/CBpk2OSU1FbeUOmMf0QbBM9seQ=; X-YMail-OSG: h5dMsJEVM1kQPsIMqqlzMQmjjK36rR2Q5Y499JwnW1zsNZwoV0FmrgfMfYHUuuMYN2b32B.jzye_HUWLKML1blSj6MrU4a5aaIihtSP5JBRznSpVA.aI20riUII- Received: from [219.82.162.164] by web26413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:27:02 GMT Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:27:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Lican Huang Subject: Re: Fw: [DNSOP] Re: draft-licanhuang-dnsop-distributeddns-02 To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand , bortzmeyer@nic.fr, dnsop@ietf.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <186745.56699.qm@web26413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Cc: X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0832629828==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============0832629828== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-975907476-1193912822=:56699" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --0-975907476-1193912822=:56699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think it is reasonable to let resource name have a human-understanding meaning, not just unique ID. And I argue that every resource can be classifed into a hierarchical domain. I have proposed the resolution for universal resource name. Please see the following: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-licanhuang-dnsop-urnresolution-00.txt Domain name is originally for the easy memory of IP address. But, today, we can think about in this way. The domain name is allotted by authoritve organization according to provider's contents. It dosn't need and dosn't allowed to apply a domain name when organizations or persons that do not provider the corresponding contents and just want to sell the domain name for profit. Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: --On 17. oktober 2007 12:46 +0100 Lican Huang wrote: > > Dear Mr. Stephane Bortzmeyer, > I mean a server can have many domain names if the server is the > provider of many classified things. In the future, the lower layer > domain name can be registered by the user itself. This is true today. I register my own resources in my own domain. But - the DNS is not a directory. It offers no way to search for a name if you don't know exactly how it is spelled. Thus, putting stuff into the DNS tends to be useless as a classification scheme. So I fail to undestand how registering a domain name for a resource is useful when providing an URL for the same resource is so much more convenient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britney_Spears) Harald Alvestrand --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. --0-975907476-1193912822=:56699 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I think it is reasonable to let resource name have a human-understanding meaning, not just unique ID. And I argue that every resource can be classifed into a hierarchical domain. I have proposed the resolution for universal resource name. Please see the following:    
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-licanhuang-dnsop-urnresolution-00.txt
 
Domain name is originally for the easy memory of IP address.  But, today, we can think about in this way. The domain name is allotted by authoritve organization according to provider's contents. It dosn't  need and dosn't allowed to apply a domain name when organizations or  persons that do not provider the corresponding contents and  just want to sell  the domain name for profit.  

Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> wrote:


--On 17. oktober 2007 12:46 +0100 Lican Huang
wrote:

>
> Dear Mr. Stephane Bortzmeyer,
> I mean a server can have many domain names if the server is the
> provider of many classified things. In the future, the lower layer
> domain name can be registered by the user itself.

This is true today. I register my own resources in my own domain.

But - the DNS is not a directory. It offers no way to search for a name if
you don't know exactly how it is spelled. Thus, putting stuff into the DNS
tends to be useless as a classification scheme.

So I fail to undestand how registering a domain name for a resource is
useful when providing an URL for the same resource is so much more
convenient

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britney_Spears)

Harald Alvestrand

Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. --0-975907476-1193912822=:56699-- --===============0832629828== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --===============0832629828==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 01 07:31:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InYB3-0000s6-5v; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:25:33 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InYB0-0000Uc-Uf for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:25:30 -0400 Received: from mailhub.ucd.ie ([193.1.169.34] helo=dakota.ucd.ie) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InYAb-0004mt-4A for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:25:05 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.dakota.ucd.ie by dakota.ucd.ie (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) id <0JQT00I01RFQZD00@dakota.ucd.ie> (original mail from Niall.oReilly@ucd.ie) for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:24:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [137.43.2.214] by dakota.ucd.ie (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0JQT00AFYRPJH450@dakota.ucd.ie>; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:24:55 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:24:57 +0000 From: Niall O'Reilly Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: draft-licanhuang-dnsop-distributeddns-02 In-reply-to: <186745.56699.qm@web26413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> To: Lican Huang Message-id: <8A3F4590-A931-48E0-9FA4-4BBCFD7878DD@ucd.ie> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.2 (Tiger) References: <186745.56699.qm@web26413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: Harald Tveit Alvestrand , dnsop@ietf.org, Niall O'Reilly X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2141651506==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============2141651506== Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-16-860733295; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT --Apple-Mail-16-860733295 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On 1 Nov 2007, at 10:27, Lican Huang wrote: > Domain name is originally for the easy memory of IP address. But, > today, we can think about in this way. The domain name is allotted > by authoritve organization according to provider's contents. It > dosn't need and dosn't allowed to apply a domain name when > organizations or persons that do not provider the corresponding > contents and just want to sell the domain name for profit. Surely this is about naming policy or registry policy, and out of scope for DNSOP ? Best regards, Niall O'Reilly University College Dublin IT Services PGP key ID: AE995ED9 (see www.pgp.net) Fingerprint: 23DC C6DE 8874 2432 2BE0 3905 7987 E48D AE99 5ED9 --Apple-Mail-16-860733295 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFHKbeOeYfkja6ZXtkRAkjHAJ9dm1A7UP1nlG3FovqpPEyTH7d3+gCbBRpA fNTl0xjyS+fB9t7VcP1P6y8= =SOHg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-16-860733295-- --===============2141651506== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --===============2141651506==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 01 07:31:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InYB3-0000s6-5v; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:25:33 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InYB0-0000Uc-Uf for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:25:30 -0400 Received: from mailhub.ucd.ie ([193.1.169.34] helo=dakota.ucd.ie) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1InYAb-0004mt-4A for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:25:05 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.dakota.ucd.ie by dakota.ucd.ie (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) id <0JQT00I01RFQZD00@dakota.ucd.ie> (original mail from Niall.oReilly@ucd.ie) for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:24:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [137.43.2.214] by dakota.ucd.ie (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0JQT00AFYRPJH450@dakota.ucd.ie>; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:24:55 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:24:57 +0000 From: Niall O'Reilly Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: draft-licanhuang-dnsop-distributeddns-02 In-reply-to: <186745.56699.qm@web26413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> To: Lican Huang Message-id: <8A3F4590-A931-48E0-9FA4-4BBCFD7878DD@ucd.ie> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.2 (Tiger) References: <186745.56699.qm@web26413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: Harald Tveit Alvestrand , dnsop@ietf.org, Niall O'Reilly X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2141651506==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============2141651506== Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-16-860733295; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT --Apple-Mail-16-860733295 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On 1 Nov 2007, at 10:27, Lican Huang wrote: > Domain name is originally for the easy memory of IP address. But, > today, we can think about in this way. The domain name is allotted > by authoritve organization according to provider's contents. It > dosn't need and dosn't allowed to apply a domain name when > organizations or persons that do not provider the corresponding > contents and just want to sell the domain name for profit. Surely this is about naming policy or registry policy, and out of scope for DNSOP ? 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------=_NextPart_000_3A7A1_01C81DA1.44181BF0-- From AlishabromleyCrump@orgonics.com Fri Nov 02 19:16:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io5kz-0000NO-FG for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 19:16:53 -0400 Received: from 244samana70.codetel.net.do ([200.88.70.244] helo=acere692717cc7) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io5ky-0007Bv-VT for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 19:16:53 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host42876208.orgonics.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id qNvELNou90.634426.pLb.GHO.3563183005608 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 17:16:34 +0600 Message-ID: <4ba801c81da6$74fc5650$1800000a@acere692717cc7> From: "Patrice Kilgore" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
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When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_4BA4_01C81DA6.74FC5650-- From ShelbyschultzCrump@flickr.com Fri Nov 02 19:24:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io5rz-0004Vc-QL; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 19:24:07 -0400 Received: from pool-71-170-26-39.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([71.170.26.39] helo=d6mjzw81.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Io5ru-0007PM-I2; Fri, 02 Nov 2007 19:24:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host87117662.flickr.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id dGsFBclG58.551413.Jd0.glY.1095730710935 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2007 18:23:12 +0600 Message-ID: <6cc501c81da7$61b7f990$0601a8c0@D6MJZW81> From: "Francine Sneed" To: Subject: Your order approved Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 18:23:12 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_6CC1_01C81DA7.61B7F990" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_6CC1_01C81DA7.61B7F990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_6CC1_01C81DA7.61B7F990 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_6CC1_01C81DA7.61B7F990-- From msfdwqa@boles.com Sat Nov 03 00:15:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IoAQE-0002ZU-7A; Sat, 03 Nov 2007 00:15:46 -0400 Received: from [61.95.227.58] (helo=ras-Chn-static-058.227.95.61.airtelbroadband.in) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IoAPq-0002SN-Mn; Sat, 03 Nov 2007 00:15:46 -0400 Received: from [61.95.227.58] by bolesuniversity.com.s7a2.psmtp.com; Sat, 3 Nov 2007 09:39:27 +0530 From: "Ginger Beal" To: Subject: Says he doesn't care son's girlfriend is black; uses N-word six times Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 09:39:27 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C81DFD.6CFDE890" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: Aca6Q6OVOOXOLJF88R06BVT62H8NDB== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Message-ID: <01c81dfd$6cfde890$3ae35f3d@msfdwqa> X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d424907374faffed8e9e11e94f671eb2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C81DFD.6CFDE890 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C81DFD.6CFDE890" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C81DFD.6CFDE890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Putin met with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and attended a summit of Caspian Sea nations Tuesday, the first visit by a Kremlin leader to Iran since Josef Stalin attended a 1943 summit with Winston Churchill and Franklin D. Roosevelt.Khamenei also said Iran will continue cooperation with the U.N. nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency, which is scrutinizing Iran's nuclear program.TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin made an unspecified proposal about Iran's nuclear program at a private meeting with the country's supreme leader during a brief trip to Tehran, Iran's state news agency said Wednesday."We are certainly concerned about the impact for fans. So far we've been assured the disruptions should be manageable but it remains to be seen," Jessica Chambers, a spokeswoman for the England Rugby Supporters Club.Prompted by government attempts to cut pension privileges, the strikes will be for 24 hours but could be prolonged to Friday, Ricard said.Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has the final say on all government matters, said Iran will give Putin's proposal serious thought before giving a response, the news agency said.Before visiting Iran, Putin held extensive talks on Iran's nuclear activities with some Western leaders including French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel.Only one in four trains will be running on Thursday, including suburban services linking Paris to its three international airports, she said.LONDON, England (CNN) -- Widespread strikes are expected to cripple France's transport network just as rugby fans make their way to Paris for this weekend's World Cup final.With Paris hotels booked full many fans are staying 30 kilometers (20 miles) outside the city in hotels around Disneyland's Paris resort."We will ponder your words and proposal," IRNA quoted Khamenei as saying.Railway workers will join bus, power, gas and some state employees for the action called after President Nicolas Sarkozy refused to back down over planned pension reforms, according to Monique Ricard, spokeswoman for the French railway SNCF.The five permanent U.N. Security Council members, plus Germany, have been working together to try to find a way to get Iran to abandon its uranium enrichment program. The U.S. and some allies allege that the program is cover for a weapons program. Iran says it is intended purely for peaceful energy production.Vladimir Putin's visit was the first by a Kremlin leader to Iran since 1943.Unidentified relatives of the gunman's victims console one another outside the courtroom.Trains across France and the Metro -- Paris's subway system -- are expected to come to a halt starting Wednesday night, Ricard said. ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C81DFD.6CFDE890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Putin met with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and attended a su= mmit of Caspian Sea nations Tuesday, the first visit by a Kremlin leader = to Iran since Josef Stalin attended a 1943 summit with Winston Churchill = and Franklin D. Roosevelt.


Khamenei also said Iran will continue cooperation with the U.N. nuclea= r watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency, which is scrutinizing= Iran's nuclear program.


TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin made an unspeci= fied proposal about Iran's nuclear program at a private meeting with the = country's supreme leader during a brief trip to Tehran, Iran's state news= agency said Wednesday.


"We are certainly concerned about the impact for fans. So far we've be= en assured the disruptions should be manageable but it remains to be seen= ," Jessica Chambers, a spokeswoman for the England Rugby Supporters Club.=


Prompted by government attempts to cut pension privileges, the strikes= will be for 24 hours but could be prolonged to Friday, Ricard said.

<= BR>

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has the final say on all government matter= s, said Iran will give Putin's proposal serious thought before giving a r= esponse, the news agency said.


Before visiting Iran, Putin held extensive talks on Iran's nuclear act= ivities with some Western leaders including French President Nicolas Sark= ozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel.


Only one in four trains will be running on Thursday, including suburba= n services linking Paris to its three international airports, she said.

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Widespread strikes are expected to cripple Fr= ance's transport network just as rugby fans make their way to Paris for t= his weekend's World Cup final.


With Paris hotels booked full many fans are staying 30 kilometers (20 = miles) outside the city in hotels around Disneyland's Paris resort.

"We will ponder your words and proposal," IRNA quoted Khamenei as sayi= ng.


Railway workers will join bus, power, gas and some state employees for= the action called after President Nicolas Sarkozy refused to back down o= ver planned pension reforms, according to Monique Ricard, spokeswoman for= the French railway SNCF.


The five permanent U.N. Security Council members, plus Germany, have b= een working together to try to find a way to get Iran to abandon its uran= ium enrichment program. The U.S. and some allies allege that the program = is cover for a weapons program. Iran says it is intended purely for peace= ful energy production.


Vladimir Putin's visit was the first by a Kremlin leader to Iran since= 1943.


Unidentified relatives of the gunman's victims console one another out= side the courtroom.


Trains across France and the Metro -- Paris's subway system -- are exp= ected to come to a halt starting Wednesday night, Ricard said.


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    Rice and Lavrov announced at a news conference after the meetings that th= e two sides would meet again in Washington in six months to review a "str= ategic framework" on evaluating and addressing the missile threat posed b= y countries the United States regards as rogue states, principally Iran.
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As Niall said, this is becoming out-of-scope. But I plead guilty, I'm the one who launched the discussion here, in the first place :-) > Domain name is originally for the easy memory of IP address. No. It is only one of the goals. Another one, much more important in my opinion, is to provide *stable* identifiers, specially when IP addresses are PI-addresses, which can change quite often. In the future, if we get a real separation of identifier and locator, the DNS will be used only to get meaningful identifiers. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_F9BD_01C82031.4C218290-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 06 03:21:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpJgL-0003ng-2D; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:21:09 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpJgJ-0003l3-C4 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:21:07 -0500 Received: from web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.177.54]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpJgF-0002rs-Po for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:21:07 -0500 Received: (qmail 93634 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Nov 2007 08:21:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=QFLLGRWi+JRuLx3LmO+F6zvQjpPXRon4+bGqV8LIBFW/qX5158URJ5yuE6bhR70XqBJQtPb0lLR6VIDm+82lbuvMEoNnAj0s+mFpbL9pJyJoZ8c1NxfkKpFpDQwF5TJ569i2wNcqMwMT/TwqA0cpPRuI4rFLdvQSbgLACmcmGjg=; X-YMail-OSG: werSGOkVM1kuQhIt_gh1gxbLloP0.CEEmD9Uo2y6Xfl6FkZ44knlfVmCudQDTzSJVf9iv.Oadh3fkQQbT.xTlD8mJ0J2a3yfhK6FwhxVqRaPeb2x Received: from [219.82.164.201] by web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 08:21:03 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:21:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Lican Huang To: Stephane Bortzmeyer In-Reply-To: <20071105081704.GA21155@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <77265.65929.qm@web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: draft-licanhuang-dnsop-distributeddns-02 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1718997500==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============1718997500== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1208082127-1194337263=:65929" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --0-1208082127-1194337263=:65929 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Right. Domain names are persistent identifiers. In the future, it is not ridiculous to map domain names to other unique IDs other than IP addresses. Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 10:27:02AM +0000, Lican Huang wrote a message of 51 lines which said: > I think it is reasonable to let resource name have a > human-understanding meaning, not just unique ID. As Niall said, this is becoming out-of-scope. But I plead guilty, I'm the one who launched the discussion here, in the first place :-) > Domain name is originally for the easy memory of IP address. No. It is only one of the goals. Another one, much more important in my opinion, is to provide *stable* identifiers, specially when IP addresses are PI-addresses, which can change quite often. In the future, if we get a real separation of identifier and locator, the DNS will be used only to get meaningful identifiers. But, in the mean time, the great thing about the DNS is that is shields us partially from IP address changes. --------------------------------- For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. --0-1208082127-1194337263=:65929 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    Right.  Domain names are persistent  identifiers. In the future,  it is not ridiculous  to map domain names to other unique IDs other than IP addresses. 

    Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote:
    On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 10:27:02AM +0000,
    Lican Huang wrote
    a message of 51 lines which said:

    > I think it is reasonable to let resource name have a
    > human-understanding meaning, not just unique ID.

    As Niall said, this is becoming out-of-scope. But I plead guilty, I'm
    the one who launched the discussion here, in the first place :-)

    > Domain name is originally for the easy memory of IP address.

    No. It is only one of the goals. Another one, much more important in
    my opinion, is to provide *stable* identifiers, specially when IP
    addresses are PI-addresses, which can change quite often.

    In the future, if we get a real separation of identifier and locator,
    the DNS will be used only to get meaningful identifiers. But, in the
    mean time, the great thing about the DNS is that is shields us
    partially from IP address changes.



    For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. --0-1208082127-1194337263=:65929-- --===============1718997500== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --===============1718997500==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 06 03:21:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpJgL-0003ng-2D; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:21:09 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpJgJ-0003l3-C4 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:21:07 -0500 Received: from web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.177.54]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpJgF-0002rs-Po for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:21:07 -0500 Received: (qmail 93634 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Nov 2007 08:21:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=QFLLGRWi+JRuLx3LmO+F6zvQjpPXRon4+bGqV8LIBFW/qX5158URJ5yuE6bhR70XqBJQtPb0lLR6VIDm+82lbuvMEoNnAj0s+mFpbL9pJyJoZ8c1NxfkKpFpDQwF5TJ569i2wNcqMwMT/TwqA0cpPRuI4rFLdvQSbgLACmcmGjg=; X-YMail-OSG: werSGOkVM1kuQhIt_gh1gxbLloP0.CEEmD9Uo2y6Xfl6FkZ44knlfVmCudQDTzSJVf9iv.Oadh3fkQQbT.xTlD8mJ0J2a3yfhK6FwhxVqRaPeb2x Received: from [219.82.164.201] by web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 08:21:03 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:21:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Lican Huang To: Stephane Bortzmeyer In-Reply-To: <20071105081704.GA21155@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <77265.65929.qm@web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: draft-licanhuang-dnsop-distributeddns-02 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1718997500==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============1718997500== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1208082127-1194337263=:65929" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --0-1208082127-1194337263=:65929 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Right. Domain names are persistent identifiers. In the future, it is not ridiculous to map domain names to other unique IDs other than IP addresses. Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 10:27:02AM +0000, Lican Huang wrote a message of 51 lines which said: > I think it is reasonable to let resource name have a > human-understanding meaning, not just unique ID. As Niall said, this is becoming out-of-scope. But I plead guilty, I'm the one who launched the discussion here, in the first place :-) > Domain name is originally for the easy memory of IP address. No. It is only one of the goals. Another one, much more important in my opinion, is to provide *stable* identifiers, specially when IP addresses are PI-addresses, which can change quite often. In the future, if we get a real separation of identifier and locator, the DNS will be used only to get meaningful identifiers. But, in the mean time, the great thing about the DNS is that is shields us partially from IP address changes. --------------------------------- For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. --0-1208082127-1194337263=:65929 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    Right.  Domain names are persistent  identifiers. In the future,  it is not ridiculous  to map domain names to other unique IDs other than IP addresses. 

    Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote:
    On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 10:27:02AM +0000,
    Lican Huang wrote
    a message of 51 lines which said:

    > I think it is reasonable to let resource name have a
    > human-understanding meaning, not just unique ID.

    As Niall said, this is becoming out-of-scope. But I plead guilty, I'm
    the one who launched the discussion here, in the first place :-)

    > Domain name is originally for the easy memory of IP address.

    No. It is only one of the goals. Another one, much more important in
    my opinion, is to provide *stable* identifiers, specially when IP
    addresses are PI-addresses, which can change quite often.

    In the future, if we get a real separation of identifier and locator,
    the DNS will be used only to get meaningful identifiers. But, in the
    mean time, the great thing about the DNS is that is shields us
    partially from IP address changes.



    For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month. --0-1208082127-1194337263=:65929-- --===============1718997500== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --===============1718997500==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 06 03:52:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpKAr-0003x7-8e; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:52:41 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpKAp-0003uz-NU for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:52:39 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpKAp-0006dl-DS for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:52:39 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id DA18C1C00D5; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:52:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D56171C0077; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:52:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90AC58ECD7; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:52:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:52:38 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Lican Huang Message-ID: <20071106085238.GA26194@nic.fr> References: <20071105081704.GA21155@nic.fr> <77265.65929.qm@web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <77265.65929.qm@web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-5-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: draft-licanhuang-dnsop-distributeddns-02 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 08:21:03AM +0000, Lican Huang wrote a message of 46 lines which said: > In the future, it is not ridiculous to map domain names to other > unique IDs other than IP addresses. In the future??? Do you know that it has been the case for a long time? Did you read RFC 2536 (and its friends), 3761, 4255, etc??? _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 06 03:52:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpKAr-0003x7-8e; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:52:41 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpKAp-0003uz-NU for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:52:39 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpKAp-0006dl-DS for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:52:39 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id DA18C1C00D5; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:52:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D56171C0077; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:52:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90AC58ECD7; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:52:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:52:38 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Lican Huang Message-ID: <20071106085238.GA26194@nic.fr> References: <20071105081704.GA21155@nic.fr> <77265.65929.qm@web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <77265.65929.qm@web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-5-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: draft-licanhuang-dnsop-distributeddns-02 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 08:21:03AM +0000, Lican Huang wrote a message of 46 lines which said: > In the future, it is not ridiculous to map domain names to other > unique IDs other than IP addresses. In the future??? Do you know that it has been the case for a long time? Did you read RFC 2536 (and its friends), 3761, 4255, etc??? _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 06 04:52:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpL6B-0005SN-GG; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:51:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpL6A-0005R9-30 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:51:54 -0500 Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl ([2001:7b8:206:1::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpL69-0005XD-LQ for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:51:54 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::53]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lA69pcvM056452; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:51:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from benno@NLnetLabs.nl) In-Reply-To: <77265.65929.qm@web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <77265.65929.qm@web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6FCD8064-5F93-4E6D-A476-F271F624C584@NLnetLabs.nl> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benno Overeinder Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: draft-licanhuang-dnsop-distributeddns-02 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:51:37 +0100 To: Lican Huang X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::53]); Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:51:38 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on open.nlnetlabs.nl X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Lican Huang wrote: > Right. Domain names are persistent identifiers. In the future, > it is not ridiculous to map domain names to other unique IDs other > than IP addresses. Persistent is not the same as stable identifiers as Stephane mentioned. Stable means not likely to change, but eventually can change (and will as domain names are traded for money). > Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 10:27:02AM +0000, > Lican Huang wrote > a message of 51 lines which said: > [...] > No. It is only one of the goals. Another one, much more important in > my opinion, is to provide *stable* identifiers, specially when IP > addresses are PI-addresses, which can change quite often. > > In the future, if we get a real separation of identifier and locator, > the DNS will be used only to get meaningful identifiers. But, in the > mean time, the great thing about the DNS is that is shields us > partially from IP address changes. Interesting reading in this context is an article by Michael J. O'Donnel, "Separate handles from names on the Internet", Communications of the ACM, Volume 48, Issue 12, pp. 78-83, December 2005. -- Benno -- Benno J. Overeinder NLnet Labs http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 06 04:52:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpL6B-0005SN-GG; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:51:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpL6A-0005R9-30 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:51:54 -0500 Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl ([2001:7b8:206:1::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IpL69-0005XD-LQ for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:51:54 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::53]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lA69pcvM056452; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:51:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from benno@NLnetLabs.nl) In-Reply-To: <77265.65929.qm@web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <77265.65929.qm@web26412.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6FCD8064-5F93-4E6D-A476-F271F624C584@NLnetLabs.nl> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benno Overeinder Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: draft-licanhuang-dnsop-distributeddns-02 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:51:37 +0100 To: Lican Huang X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::53]); Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:51:38 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on open.nlnetlabs.nl X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Lican Huang wrote: > Right. Domain names are persistent identifiers. In the future, > it is not ridiculous to map domain names to other unique IDs other > than IP addresses. Persistent is not the same as stable identifiers as Stephane mentioned. Stable means not likely to change, but eventually can change (and will as domain names are traded for money). > Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 10:27:02AM +0000, > Lican Huang wrote > a message of 51 lines which said: > [...] > No. It is only one of the goals. Another one, much more important in > my opinion, is to provide *stable* identifiers, specially when IP > addresses are PI-addresses, which can change quite often. > > In the future, if we get a real separation of identifier and locator, > the DNS will be used only to get meaningful identifiers. But, in the > mean time, the great thing about the DNS is that is shields us > partially from IP address changes. Interesting reading in this context is an article by Michael J. O'Donnel, "Separate handles from names on the Internet", Communications of the ACM, Volume 48, Issue 12, pp. 78-83, December 2005. -- Benno -- Benno J. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_18D42_01C8215E.A14CDA70-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 07 17:08:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipt4A-0003py-NK; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:08:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipt49-0003oq-HJ for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:08:05 -0500 Received: from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipt47-0004eB-D6 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:08:05 -0500 Received: from sr22.av8.net (sr22.av8.net [198.3.136.5]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lA7M7vKl013739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:07:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:07:57 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@sr22.av8.net To: dnsop@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Subject: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org The ICANN announcement doesn't seem to have come through on DNSOP as Patrick indicated. I can't find it in my archive.... Did anyone else get it? --Dean ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 16:26:07 -0500 From: Patrick W. Gilmore To: "Nanog@Merit. Edu" Cc: Patrick W. Gilmore Subject: Re: DNS servers On Nov 6, 2007, at 3:24 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > On Nov 6, 2007, at 3:06 PM, J. Oquendo wrote: > >> Nice to get news third string... >> >> // >> Last week, ICANN setup a new IP address for one of the thirteen "root >> name servers" that oversee DNS queries across the net, and it plans >> on >> retiring the old address as soon as the late spring. >> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/06/icann_rolls_out_new_root_name_server_address/ > > It was posted to DNS-Operations. Which is where, uh, DNS Operations > are discussed.... It was pointed out to me that the sarcasm in this post is not clear. I was not disagreeing, it should have been posted to NANOG (as well as other places). I simply didn't notice it 'cause I saw it elsewhere. Mostly I wanted to give out the info below, which somehow escaped my personal knowledgebase until a very nice person from VeriSign explained it to me at RIPE a couple weeks ago. -- TTFN, patrick > Plus, as long as one of the IP addresses in your hints file is good, > it doesn't really matter after launch. The SOA from one of the > roots will override the hints file. > > -- > TTFN, > patrick _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 07 17:08:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipt4A-0003py-NK; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:08:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipt49-0003oq-HJ for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:08:05 -0500 Received: from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ipt47-0004eB-D6 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:08:05 -0500 Received: from sr22.av8.net (sr22.av8.net [198.3.136.5]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lA7M7vKl013739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:07:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:07:57 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson X-X-Sender: dean@sr22.av8.net To: dnsop@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Subject: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org The ICANN announcement doesn't seem to have come through on DNSOP as Patrick indicated. I can't find it in my archive.... Did anyone else get it? --Dean ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 16:26:07 -0500 From: Patrick W. Gilmore To: "Nanog@Merit. Edu" Cc: Patrick W. Gilmore Subject: Re: DNS servers On Nov 6, 2007, at 3:24 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > On Nov 6, 2007, at 3:06 PM, J. Oquendo wrote: > >> Nice to get news third string... >> >> // >> Last week, ICANN setup a new IP address for one of the thirteen "root >> name servers" that oversee DNS queries across the net, and it plans >> on >> retiring the old address as soon as the late spring. >> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/06/icann_rolls_out_new_root_name_server_address/ > > It was posted to DNS-Operations. Which is where, uh, DNS Operations > are discussed.... It was pointed out to me that the sarcasm in this post is not clear. I was not disagreeing, it should have been posted to NANOG (as well as other places). I simply didn't notice it 'cause I saw it elsewhere. Mostly I wanted to give out the info below, which somehow escaped my personal knowledgebase until a very nice person from VeriSign explained it to me at RIPE a couple weeks ago. -- TTFN, patrick > Plus, as long as one of the IP addresses in your hints file is good, > it doesn't really matter after launch. The SOA from one of the > roots will override the hints file. > > -- > TTFN, > patrick _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 07 17:23:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptIV-0001lR-JI; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:22:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptIU-0001lL-Cj for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:22:54 -0500 Received: from smtp2.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.15] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptIQ-00054G-Cf for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:22:54 -0500 Received: from g35-219.icann.org (g35-219.icann.org [192.0.35.219] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lA7MLlXE017090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:21:47 -0800 Message-ID: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:21:47 -0800 From: Kim Davies Organization: Internet Assigned Numbers Authority User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dean Anderson Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Dean Anderson wrote: > The ICANN announcement doesn't seem to have come through on DNSOP as > Patrick indicated. I can't find it in my archive.... Did anyone else > get it? The announcement was posted on 24 October to dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dns-wg@ripe.net and nanog@merit.edu, as well as some other closed lists. I didn't send it to DNSOP as I figured it was out of the group's charter of "developing guidelines", but I will note that for the future. If there are any other appropriate places for such announcements to be sent I'd be happy to include them for the future. Apologies to those who didn't get notice through the above. Whilst I am dispensing the mea culpas, I'll also say it was an oversight the original email dispatches weren't PGP signed. The root zone and hints files on internic.net are PGP signed by VRSN if you wish to cross-verify. kim _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 07 17:23:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptIV-0001lR-JI; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:22:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptIU-0001lL-Cj for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:22:54 -0500 Received: from smtp2.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.15] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptIQ-00054G-Cf for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:22:54 -0500 Received: from g35-219.icann.org (g35-219.icann.org [192.0.35.219] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lA7MLlXE017090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:21:47 -0800 Message-ID: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:21:47 -0800 From: Kim Davies Organization: Internet Assigned Numbers Authority User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dean Anderson Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Dean Anderson wrote: > The ICANN announcement doesn't seem to have come through on DNSOP as > Patrick indicated. I can't find it in my archive.... Did anyone else > get it? The announcement was posted on 24 October to dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dns-wg@ripe.net and nanog@merit.edu, as well as some other closed lists. I didn't send it to DNSOP as I figured it was out of the group's charter of "developing guidelines", but I will note that for the future. If there are any other appropriate places for such announcements to be sent I'd be happy to include them for the future. Apologies to those who didn't get notice through the above. Whilst I am dispensing the mea culpas, I'll also say it was an oversight the original email dispatches weren't PGP signed. The root zone and hints files on internic.net are PGP signed by VRSN if you wish to cross-verify. kim _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 07 17:24:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptJo-0003Ol-Gz; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:24:16 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptJn-0003Og-QP for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:24:15 -0500 Received: from gilmore.priori.net ([140.186.190.72] helo=bos.priori.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptJm-000577-ED for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:24:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (gilmore.priori.net [140.186.190.72]) by bos.priori.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24BF43D49; Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:24:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" To: dnsop@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v912) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:24:11 -0500 References: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.912) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Nov 7, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Kim Davies wrote: > Dean Anderson wrote: >> The ICANN announcement doesn't seem to have come through on DNSOP as >> Patrick indicated. I can't find it in my archive.... Did anyone else >> get it? Actually, I said it went to "DNS Operations", which is dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org , as Kim states below. -- TTFN, patrick > The announcement was posted on 24 October to > dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dns-wg@ripe.net and nanog@merit.edu, > as well as some other closed lists. I didn't send it to DNSOP as I > figured it was out of the group's charter of "developing guidelines", > but I will note that for the future. If there are any other > appropriate > places for such announcements to be sent I'd be happy to include them > for the future. > > Apologies to those who didn't get notice through the above. > > Whilst I am dispensing the mea culpas, I'll also say it was an > oversight > the original email dispatches weren't PGP signed. The root zone and > hints files on internic.net are PGP signed by VRSN if you wish to > cross-verify. > > kim > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 07 17:24:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptJo-0003Ol-Gz; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:24:16 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptJn-0003Og-QP for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:24:15 -0500 Received: from gilmore.priori.net ([140.186.190.72] helo=bos.priori.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptJm-000577-ED for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:24:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (gilmore.priori.net [140.186.190.72]) by bos.priori.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24BF43D49; Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:24:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" To: dnsop@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v912) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:24:11 -0500 References: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.912) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Nov 7, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Kim Davies wrote: > Dean Anderson wrote: >> The ICANN announcement doesn't seem to have come through on DNSOP as >> Patrick indicated. I can't find it in my archive.... Did anyone else >> get it? Actually, I said it went to "DNS Operations", which is dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org , as Kim states below. -- TTFN, patrick > The announcement was posted on 24 October to > dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dns-wg@ripe.net and nanog@merit.edu, > as well as some other closed lists. I didn't send it to DNSOP as I > figured it was out of the group's charter of "developing guidelines", > but I will note that for the future. If there are any other > appropriate > places for such announcements to be sent I'd be happy to include them > for the future. > > Apologies to those who didn't get notice through the above. > > Whilst I am dispensing the mea culpas, I'll also say it was an > oversight > the original email dispatches weren't PGP signed. The root zone and > hints files on internic.net are PGP signed by VRSN if you wish to > cross-verify. > > kim > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 07 17:31:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptQb-0005Sy-7e; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:31:17 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptQa-0005Sl-Fy for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:31:16 -0500 Received: from outgoing01.lava.net ([64.65.64.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptQa-0004sF-3t for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:31:16 -0500 Received: from malasada.lava.net (malasada.lava.net [64.65.64.17]) by outgoing01.lava.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC198862B for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:31:14 -1000 (HST) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:31:14 -1000 (HST) From: Antonio Querubin To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org With all the on-going discussion in various circles going on about IPv6 it's a pity the root hints is still missing IPv6 addresses. Antonio Querubin whois: AQ7-ARIN _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 07 17:31:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptQb-0005Sy-7e; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:31:17 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptQa-0005Sl-Fy for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:31:16 -0500 Received: from outgoing01.lava.net ([64.65.64.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IptQa-0004sF-3t for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:31:16 -0500 Received: from malasada.lava.net (malasada.lava.net [64.65.64.17]) by outgoing01.lava.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC198862B for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:31:14 -1000 (HST) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:31:14 -1000 (HST) From: Antonio Querubin To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org With all the on-going discussion in various circles going on about IPv6 it's a pity the root hints is still missing IPv6 addresses. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C821F0.EAF45D50-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 08 04:08:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq3Mf-0003wr-MS; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 04:07:53 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq3Md-0003wj-TD for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 04:07:51 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq3MZ-0006Kj-8d for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 04:07:51 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F8831C00DB; Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:07:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B38D1C00D8; Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:07:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEBA58ECBE; Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:07:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:07:46 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Antonio Querubin Message-ID: <20071108090746.GA13970@nic.fr> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-5-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 12:31:14PM -1000, Antonio Querubin wrote a message of 11 lines which said: > With all the on-going discussion in various circles going on about > IPv6 it's a pity the root hints is still missing IPv6 addresses. There is a process going on, at ICANN's usual speed: http://www.icann.org/committees/security/sac017.htm http://www.icann.org/committees/security/sac016.htm After that, we'll have to wait the authorization from the real root (in Washington, DC). _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 08 04:08:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq3Mf-0003wr-MS; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 04:07:53 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq3Md-0003wj-TD for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 04:07:51 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq3MZ-0006Kj-8d for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 04:07:51 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F8831C00DB; Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:07:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B38D1C00D8; Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:07:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEBA58ECBE; Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:07:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:07:46 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Antonio Querubin Message-ID: <20071108090746.GA13970@nic.fr> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-5-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 12:31:14PM -1000, Antonio Querubin wrote a message of 11 lines which said: > With all the on-going discussion in various circles going on about > IPv6 it's a pity the root hints is still missing IPv6 addresses. There is a process going on, at ICANN's usual speed: http://www.icann.org/committees/security/sac017.htm http://www.icann.org/committees/security/sac016.htm After that, we'll have to wait the authorization from the real root (in Washington, DC). _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From simi554@www.sca.org.au Thu Nov 08 07:43:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq6jQ-0000lk-3l for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 07:43:36 -0500 Received: from laubervilliers-153-51-7-25.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr ([193.252.182.25]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq6jP-0004y9-IX for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 07:43:36 -0500 Received: from acer-318de0055e ([189.143.164.41]:23024 "EHLO acer-318de0055e" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by LAubervilliers-153-51-7-25.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr with ESMTP id S22AWXVCZJNRCXRO (ORCPT ); Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:44:02 +0100 Message-ID: <3BD3A5AB.AF6A3BC1@www.sca.org.au> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:43:38 +0100 From: "simi prescott" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: siarekco Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea http://www.oiobmv.com/ WOW! EXCLUSIVE herbal pills that will ENLARGE your cock shutsuji shouyaku siberski shsooyfr From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 08 09:34:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq8Ra-0002CD-94; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:33:18 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq8RY-0002Bt-Nb for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:33:16 -0500 Received: from fw-d-whp.denic.de ([81.91.160.27] helo=denic.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq8RY-00006t-CY for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:33:16 -0500 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id F038F55EE4D; Thu, 8 Nov 2007 15:33:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 15:33:15 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) Message-ID: <20071108143315.GB2779@unknown.office.denic.de> References: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Kim, > The announcement was posted on 24 October to > dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dns-wg@ripe.net and nanog@merit.edu, > as well as some other closed lists. I didn't send it to DNSOP as I > figured it was out of the group's charter of "developing guidelines", thanks for your careful consideration. I'd agree this is a reasonable judgement. > but I will note that for the future. If there are any other appropriate > places for such announcements to be sent I'd be happy to include them > for the future. To the extent that we are discussing resolver priming (now you could argue _me_ should not make this assessment) and DNS software defaults, one of these rare instances of an address change could have equally reasonable be seen in-scope. I appreciate your extra effort and see it as a courtesy, not an obligation. -Peter {hat on, this time} _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 08 09:34:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq8Ra-0002CD-94; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:33:18 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq8RY-0002Bt-Nb for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:33:16 -0500 Received: from fw-d-whp.denic.de ([81.91.160.27] helo=denic.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq8RY-00006t-CY for dnsop@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:33:16 -0500 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id F038F55EE4D; Thu, 8 Nov 2007 15:33:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 15:33:15 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) Message-ID: <20071108143315.GB2779@unknown.office.denic.de> References: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Kim, > The announcement was posted on 24 October to > dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dns-wg@ripe.net and nanog@merit.edu, > as well as some other closed lists. I didn't send it to DNSOP as I > figured it was out of the group's charter of "developing guidelines", thanks for your careful consideration. I'd agree this is a reasonable judgement. > but I will note that for the future. If there are any other appropriate > places for such announcements to be sent I'd be happy to include them > for the future. To the extent that we are discussing resolver priming (now you could argue _me_ should not make this assessment) and DNS software defaults, one of these rare instances of an address change could have equally reasonable be seen in-scope. I appreciate your extra effort and see it as a courtesy, not an obligation. -Peter {hat on, this time} _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From sterlingfinchdq@iname.com Thu Nov 08 11:10:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq9xj-00059n-6a; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 11:10:35 -0500 Received: from [61.135.170.160] (helo=gmx.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iq9xh-0003hl-VO; Thu, 08 Nov 2007 11:10:34 -0500 Subject: SOLD OUT -LIMITED OFFER-Rolex Watchs under 250$ 6h9dh Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 16:08:43 +0000 To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org, directory-request@ietf.org, dix@ietf.org, dnsop@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1194538123.8231@iname.com> From: "Sterling Finch" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Dear dnsop-archive@ietf.org http://kodytowu58099.googlepages.com/index.html What is Prestige Replica store? At Prestige Replica, we specialize in the sales of brand-name quality, luxury replicas at some of the lowest prices possible. With our large selection of products, you can be sure to find that perfect gift for yourself or a loved one. Visit Prestige Replica Shop! http://kodytowu58099.googlepages.com/index.html Thanks Jennifer Moore dnsop-archive@ietf.org wrote: > SOLD OUT -LIMITED OFFER- I Selling Rolexes and other watches? 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    ------=_NextPart_000_23780_01C82286.9EDC2A10-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 00:10:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM81-0001MM-G2; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:01 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM80-0001Ki-Cy for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:00 -0500 Received: from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM7u-0004V8-V0 for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:00 -0500 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lA959prx015809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:09:54 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:13:01 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson To: Kim Davies Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ReSent-Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:09:33 -0500 (EST) ReSent-From: Dean Anderson ReSent-To: dnsop@ietf.org ReSent-Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) ReSent-Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Kim Davies wrote: > Dean Anderson wrote: > > The ICANN announcement doesn't seem to have come through on DNSOP as > > Patrick indicated. I can't find it in my archive.... Did anyone else > > get it? > > The announcement was posted on 24 October to > dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dns-wg@ripe.net and nanog@merit.edu, dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org list is closed/private to ISC. dns-wg@ripe.net list is specific to RIPE. nanog@merit.edu purports to be open, but is in fact a private list not open to the public. But since you support private mailing lists, please add dns-operations@av8.net to you notification list. > as well as some other closed lists. I didn't send it to DNSOP as I > figured it was out of the group's charter of "developing guidelines", > but I will note that for the future. If there are any other appropriate > places for such announcements to be sent I'd be happy to include them > for the future. Actually, DNSOP is chartered to provide more than just guidelines. From the DNSOP Charter: 1. Define the processes by which Domain Name System (DNS) software may be efficiently and correctly administered, configured, and operated on Internet networks. This will include root zone name servers, gTLD name servers, name servers for other DNS zones, Changes to the processes should include notification to DNSOP. Significant changes in operation are of interest. Thanks! --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 00:10:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM81-0001MM-G2; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:01 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM80-0001Ki-Cy for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:00 -0500 Received: from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM7u-0004V8-V0 for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:00 -0500 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lA959prx015809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:09:54 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:13:01 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson To: Kim Davies Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <47323A7B.5070209@icann.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ReSent-Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:09:33 -0500 (EST) ReSent-From: Dean Anderson ReSent-To: dnsop@ietf.org ReSent-Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) ReSent-Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Kim Davies wrote: > Dean Anderson wrote: > > The ICANN announcement doesn't seem to have come through on DNSOP as > > Patrick indicated. I can't find it in my archive.... Did anyone else > > get it? > > The announcement was posted on 24 October to > dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dns-wg@ripe.net and nanog@merit.edu, dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org list is closed/private to ISC. dns-wg@ripe.net list is specific to RIPE. nanog@merit.edu purports to be open, but is in fact a private list not open to the public. But since you support private mailing lists, please add dns-operations@av8.net to you notification list. > as well as some other closed lists. I didn't send it to DNSOP as I > figured it was out of the group's charter of "developing guidelines", > but I will note that for the future. If there are any other appropriate > places for such announcements to be sent I'd be happy to include them > for the future. Actually, DNSOP is chartered to provide more than just guidelines. From the DNSOP Charter: 1. Define the processes by which Domain Name System (DNS) software may be efficiently and correctly administered, configured, and operated on Internet networks. This will include root zone name servers, gTLD name servers, name servers for other DNS zones, Changes to the processes should include notification to DNSOP. Significant changes in operation are of interest. Thanks! --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 00:10:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8N-0001nb-AU; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8L-0001lN-5X for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:21 -0500 Received: from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8I-0001FX-TY for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:21 -0500 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lA95ADr5015815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:10:13 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:18:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson To: Antonio Querubin Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ReSent-Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:10:03 -0500 (EST) ReSent-From: Dean Anderson ReSent-To: dnsop@ietf.org ReSent-Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers ReSent-Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Antonio Querubin wrote: > With all the on-going discussion in various circles going on about IPv6 > it's a pity the root hints is still missing IPv6 addresses. There's no room for IPv6 hints. The 512 byte maximum size is full. Turning on ENDSO or requiring TCP connections entangles all sorts of problems with DNS Root Anycast, because those services aren't stateless, and Anycast isn't reliable with stateful services. Of course, there really isn't any reason to have the same 13 IPv4 servers handle IPv6 addresses. A different set of IPv6 root servers (not anycasted) is what is needed for IPv6 operation. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 00:10:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8N-0001nb-AU; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8L-0001lN-5X for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:21 -0500 Received: from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8I-0001FX-TY for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:21 -0500 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lA95ADr5015815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:10:13 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:18:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson To: Antonio Querubin Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ReSent-Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:10:03 -0500 (EST) ReSent-From: Dean Anderson ReSent-To: dnsop@ietf.org ReSent-Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers ReSent-Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Antonio Querubin wrote: > With all the on-going discussion in various circles going on about IPv6 > it's a pity the root hints is still missing IPv6 addresses. There's no room for IPv6 hints. The 512 byte maximum size is full. Turning on ENDSO or requiring TCP connections entangles all sorts of problems with DNS Root Anycast, because those services aren't stateless, and Anycast isn't reliable with stateful services. Of course, there really isn't any reason to have the same 13 IPv4 servers handle IPv6 addresses. A different set of IPv6 root servers (not anycasted) is what is needed for IPv6 operation. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 00:10:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8Q-0001wE-Qn; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:26 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8P-0001uf-A3 for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:25 -0500 Received: from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8O-0004WF-Ue for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:25 -0500 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lA95AJX5015818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:10:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:36:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson To: Mark Andrews In-Reply-To: <200711072224.lA7MOOMG036302@drugs.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ReSent-Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:10:14 -0500 (EST) ReSent-From: Dean Anderson ReSent-To: dnsop@ietf.org ReSent-Subject: Re: NSEC++ (Was: Re: DNSEXT Minutes @ IETF-63) ReSent-Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: NSEC++ (Was: Re: DNSEXT Minutes @ IETF-63) X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, 8 Nov 2007, Mark Andrews wrote: > > RFC 3833 Section 1: > > > > - While some participants in the meeting were interested in > > protecting against disclosure of DNS data to unauthorized parties, > > the design team made an explicit decision that "DNS data is > > `public'", and ruled all threats of data disclosure explicitly out > > of scope for DNSSEC. > > This is a "don't allow the data to be encrypted" clause. > The data is still sent in the plain. The RFC3833 text above is plain. There are three elements: 1) Protecting against disclosure of DNS data was discussed. 2) Explicit decision: "DNS data is `public'" 3) Threats of data disclosure explicitly out of scope. NSEC3 is meant to protect against disclosure of DNS data (a topic discussed). The NSEC3 draft was designed with the purpose of altering the public nature of DNS data in order to enforce an improper database copyright, contrary to the explicit decision cited. And NSEC3 addresses a problem (data disclosure) that is explicitly out of scope for DNSSEC. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 00:10:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8Q-0001wE-Qn; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:26 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8P-0001uf-A3 for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:25 -0500 Received: from cirrus.av8.net ([130.105.36.66]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqM8O-0004WF-Ue for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:10:25 -0500 Received: from [130.105.12.10] ([130.105.12.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by cirrus.av8.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lA95AJX5015818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:10:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:36:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dean Anderson To: Mark Andrews In-Reply-To: <200711072224.lA7MOOMG036302@drugs.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ReSent-Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:10:14 -0500 (EST) ReSent-From: Dean Anderson ReSent-To: dnsop@ietf.org ReSent-Subject: Re: NSEC++ (Was: Re: DNSEXT Minutes @ IETF-63) ReSent-Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: NSEC++ (Was: Re: DNSEXT Minutes @ IETF-63) X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, 8 Nov 2007, Mark Andrews wrote: > > RFC 3833 Section 1: > > > > - While some participants in the meeting were interested in > > protecting against disclosure of DNS data to unauthorized parties, > > the design team made an explicit decision that "DNS data is > > `public'", and ruled all threats of data disclosure explicitly out > > of scope for DNSSEC. > > This is a "don't allow the data to be encrypted" clause. > The data is still sent in the plain. The RFC3833 text above is plain. There are three elements: 1) Protecting against disclosure of DNS data was discussed. 2) Explicit decision: "DNS data is `public'" 3) Threats of data disclosure explicitly out of scope. NSEC3 is meant to protect against disclosure of DNS data (a topic discussed). The NSEC3 draft was designed with the purpose of altering the public nature of DNS data in order to enforce an improper database copyright, contrary to the explicit decision cited. And NSEC3 addresses a problem (data disclosure) that is explicitly out of scope for DNSSEC. --Dean -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From EsperanzarydbergSadler@gobritney.com Fri Nov 09 00:58:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqMsm-0003w5-TO for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:58:20 -0500 Received: from pc-39-48-47-190.cm.vtr.net ([190.47.48.39] helo=91e686a51d3548e) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqMsm-0005cl-8u for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:58:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host01770398.gobritney.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id mTB5Dz3l94.773168.4EY.g1b.7023738769854 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 02:58:20 +0400 Message-ID: <4dc7701c82295$92beabe0$27302fbe@91e686a51d3548e> From: "Jillian Ferreira" To: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
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    When you are young and stressed = up…
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    ------=_NextPart_000_4DC73_01C82295.92BEABE0-- From SeanteheranButler@harpers.org Fri Nov 09 05:08:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqQnI-0003mj-87 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 05:08:56 -0500 Received: from dsl51b67788.pool.t-online.hu ([81.182.119.136] helo=kerimgep) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqQnH-0004h9-Q9 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 05:08:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host11688660.harpers.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id OMmPa8DG68.439574.wEi.jjf.0873984271194 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:08:35 -0100 Message-ID: From: "Russell Long" To: Subject: Approval process Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:08:35 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_EE09_01C822B8.88E03120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_EE09_01C822B8.88E03120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_EE09_01C822B8.88E03120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_EE09_01C822B8.88E03120-- From BretticonicCastillo@libraryspot.com Fri Nov 09 06:05:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqRgE-00038F-Bd for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 06:05:42 -0500 Received: from [121.151.71.65] (helo=hyunju.kornet) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqRgD-0006fy-VM for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 06:05:42 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host40982201.libraryspot.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id V524MR5H28.800524.gIg.eF7.9387236457126 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 20:05:08 -0900 Message-ID: <034e01c822c0$7003edb0$41479779@hyunju> From: "Rafael Meyer" To: Subject: Approval process Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 20:05:08 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_034A_01C822C0.7003EDB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_034A_01C822C0.7003EDB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_034A_01C822C0.7003EDB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

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    ------=_NextPart_000_034A_01C822C0.7003EDB0-- From JessusurpRoman@peopleenespanol.com Fri Nov 09 08:36:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqU2a-0004YT-CB; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 08:36:56 -0500 Received: from adsl213-218-199-70.as15444.net ([213.218.199.70] helo=timee92d484fb3) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqU2Z-0002PF-Pa; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 08:36:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host84116996.peopleenespanol.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id aOsR6JAU72.015400.t3L.msv.5437284220767 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 13:36:30 +0000 Message-ID: <2dedc01c822d5$96936680$0200a8c0@timee92d484fb3> From: "Morgan Cochran" To: Cc: , =20

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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    ------=_NextPart_000_2DED8_01C822D5.96936680-- From WeldonfetterMorse@askmen.com Fri Nov 09 10:17:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqVcC-0007Yl-KN for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:17:48 -0500 Received: from 84.123.68.132.dyn.user.ono.com ([84.123.68.132] helo=casa) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqVcB-00061O-Jx for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:17:48 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host61212274.askmen.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id OZPLtAlD68.791500.Vpo.mSE.3329398549334 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 16:17:00 -0100 Message-ID: <10959401c822e3$a047a6b0$84447b54@casa> From: "Sanford Livingston" To: , =20

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    ------=_NextPart_000_109590_01C822E3.A047A6B0-- From AureliomarmaladeMcintosh@williebird.com Fri Nov 09 10:25:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqVjl-0000pd-Ed; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:25:37 -0500 Received: from [212.92.27.2] (helo=nikia97b6f64ee.mshome.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqVjj-0006Ew-LG; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:25:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host16650965.williebird.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id My3xp43g56.005967.W57.0y0.6388424682035 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 16:25:24 -0100 Message-ID: <373401c822e4$cf6a7ed0$2fffff0a@nikia97b6f64ee> From: "Carlo Solomon" To: Subject: Confirmation link Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 16:25:24 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3730_01C822E4.CF6A7ED0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_3730_01C822E4.CF6A7ED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_3730_01C822E4.CF6A7ED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

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    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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    More
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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
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    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

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    When you are aged and never give up…
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    ------=_NextPart_000_3730_01C822E4.CF6A7ED0-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 11:56:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqX9g-0002Yw-Rk; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:56:28 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqX9g-0002YL-0F for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:56:28 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqX9f-0001gz-1K for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:56:27 -0500 Received: from [64.235.108.48] (helo=[192.168.182.28]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IqX9a-0006uO-KU; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:56:25 +0000 Message-Id: <53499CB7-6CA8-43C1-BF2D-1175A22202D4@ca.afilias.info> From: Joe Abley To: Dean Anderson In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v912) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:56:18 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.912) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On 8-Nov-2007, at 23:18, Dean Anderson wrote: > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Antonio Querubin wrote: > >> With all the on-going discussion in various circles going on about >> IPv6 >> it's a pity the root hints is still missing IPv6 addresses. > > There's no room for IPv6 hints. The 512 byte maximum size is full. A priming query response which includes a full set of IPv4 courtesy glue in the additional section is 436 bytes long (see below). It's not clear that there is a requirement for the additional section to contain courtesy glue which is represents a complete set of all addresses of the thirteen root servers; the practical requirement is that it contains enough courtesy glue that an address for at least one reachable server is provided. There is a massive installed base of DNS clients, some very old, and hence some degree of caution in adding AAAA glue seems prudent. Such caution seems evident in the testbed and associated testing that was described in those RSSAC/SSAC URLs that were mentioned earlier. From a protocol perspective, however, I think it's clear that a response to a priming query which includes AAAA courtesy glue will not necessary require EDNS0, or TCP transport. > Turning on ENDSO or requiring TCP connections entangles all sorts of > problems with DNS Root Anycast, because those services aren't > stateless, > and Anycast isn't reliable with stateful services. I will refrain on commenting on your assertions about the suitability of anycast for DNS services, since I have no points to make here that have not been made in public many times before. > Of course, there really isn't any reason to have the same 13 IPv4 > servers handle IPv6 addresses. A different set of IPv6 root servers > (not anycasted) is what is needed for IPv6 operation. No, there is no requirement to use different servers for IPv6 operation, and also no need for whichever servers are used not to be distributed using anycast. Joe [calamari:~]% dig . ns ; <<>> DiG 9.4.1-P1 <<>> . ns ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 33203 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 13 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;. IN NS ;; ANSWER SECTION: . 518400 IN NS A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 198.41.0.4 B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.228.79.201 C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.33.4.12 D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 128.8.10.90 E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.203.230.10 F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 192.5.5.241 G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.112.36.4 H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 128.63.2.53 I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.36.148.17 J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 192.58.128.30 K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 193.0.14.129 L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 199.7.83.42 M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 202.12.27.33 ;; Query time: 168 msec ;; SERVER: 199.212.90.6#53(199.212.90.6) ;; WHEN: Fri Nov 9 11:48:32 2007 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 436 [calamari:~]% _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 11:56:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqX9g-0002Yw-Rk; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:56:28 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqX9g-0002YL-0F for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:56:28 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqX9f-0001gz-1K for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:56:27 -0500 Received: from [64.235.108.48] (helo=[192.168.182.28]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IqX9a-0006uO-KU; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:56:25 +0000 Message-Id: <53499CB7-6CA8-43C1-BF2D-1175A22202D4@ca.afilias.info> From: Joe Abley To: Dean Anderson In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v912) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:56:18 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.912) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On 8-Nov-2007, at 23:18, Dean Anderson wrote: > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Antonio Querubin wrote: > >> With all the on-going discussion in various circles going on about >> IPv6 >> it's a pity the root hints is still missing IPv6 addresses. > > There's no room for IPv6 hints. The 512 byte maximum size is full. A priming query response which includes a full set of IPv4 courtesy glue in the additional section is 436 bytes long (see below). It's not clear that there is a requirement for the additional section to contain courtesy glue which is represents a complete set of all addresses of the thirteen root servers; the practical requirement is that it contains enough courtesy glue that an address for at least one reachable server is provided. There is a massive installed base of DNS clients, some very old, and hence some degree of caution in adding AAAA glue seems prudent. Such caution seems evident in the testbed and associated testing that was described in those RSSAC/SSAC URLs that were mentioned earlier. From a protocol perspective, however, I think it's clear that a response to a priming query which includes AAAA courtesy glue will not necessary require EDNS0, or TCP transport. > Turning on ENDSO or requiring TCP connections entangles all sorts of > problems with DNS Root Anycast, because those services aren't > stateless, > and Anycast isn't reliable with stateful services. I will refrain on commenting on your assertions about the suitability of anycast for DNS services, since I have no points to make here that have not been made in public many times before. > Of course, there really isn't any reason to have the same 13 IPv4 > servers handle IPv6 addresses. A different set of IPv6 root servers > (not anycasted) is what is needed for IPv6 operation. No, there is no requirement to use different servers for IPv6 operation, and also no need for whichever servers are used not to be distributed using anycast. Joe [calamari:~]% dig . ns ; <<>> DiG 9.4.1-P1 <<>> . ns ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 33203 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 13 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;. IN NS ;; ANSWER SECTION: . 518400 IN NS A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 518400 IN NS M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 198.41.0.4 B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.228.79.201 C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.33.4.12 D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 128.8.10.90 E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.203.230.10 F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 192.5.5.241 G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.112.36.4 H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 128.63.2.53 I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.36.148.17 J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 192.58.128.30 K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 193.0.14.129 L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 199.7.83.42 M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 202.12.27.33 ;; Query time: 168 msec ;; SERVER: 199.212.90.6#53(199.212.90.6) ;; WHEN: Fri Nov 9 11:48:32 2007 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 436 [calamari:~]% _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From JarredrationaleSlater@williebird.com Fri Nov 09 12:12:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqXOs-0003Q7-Q0; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:12:10 -0500 Received: from host178-98-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([79.23.98.178] helo=oem40176f3f1ed.homenet.telecomitalia.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqXOr-0002bG-5T; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:12:09 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host16989507.williebird.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id xORyem4n71.246671.wMR.m50.4650647890685 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 18:11:55 -0100 Message-ID: <2619201c822f3$ae517370$f801a8c0@oem40176f3f1ed> From: "Yong Macias" To: Cc: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_2618E_01C822F3.AE517370-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 13:50:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqYvT-0007xC-TX; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:49:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqYvS-0007vv-4N for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:49:54 -0500 Received: from h-68-166-241-89.sfldmidn.covad.net ([68.166.241.89] helo=cleveland.smoti.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqYvL-0001aw-0l for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:49:54 -0500 Received: from shaker.smoti.org ([68.166.241.90]) by cleveland.smoti.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.54) id 1IqYvH-0002mc-20; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:49:43 -0500 Message-ID: <4734ABC6.1060706@isc.org> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:49:42 -0500 From: Keith Mitchell Organization: Internet Systems Consortium User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20060911) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Dean Anderson wrote: > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Kim Davies wrote: > >> Dean Anderson wrote: >>> The ICANN announcement doesn't seem to have come through on DNSOP as >>> Patrick indicated. I can't find it in my archive.... Did anyone else >>> get it? >> The announcement was posted on 24 October to >> dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dns-wg@ripe.net and nanog@merit.edu, > > dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org list is closed/private to ISC. The correct address for this list is . It is not an ISC closed or private list, it is an open list operated by OARC which anyone may participate in. The public archives can be found at: http://lists.oarci.net/pipermail/dns-operations/ Keith Mitchell OARC Programme Manager _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 13:50:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqYvT-0007xC-TX; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:49:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqYvS-0007vv-4N for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:49:54 -0500 Received: from h-68-166-241-89.sfldmidn.covad.net ([68.166.241.89] helo=cleveland.smoti.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqYvL-0001aw-0l for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:49:54 -0500 Received: from shaker.smoti.org ([68.166.241.90]) by cleveland.smoti.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.54) id 1IqYvH-0002mc-20; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:49:43 -0500 Message-ID: <4734ABC6.1060706@isc.org> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:49:42 -0500 From: Keith Mitchell Organization: Internet Systems Consortium User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20060911) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers (fwd) References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Dean Anderson wrote: > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Kim Davies wrote: > >> Dean Anderson wrote: >>> The ICANN announcement doesn't seem to have come through on DNSOP as >>> Patrick indicated. I can't find it in my archive.... Did anyone else >>> get it? >> The announcement was posted on 24 October to >> dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dns-wg@ripe.net and nanog@merit.edu, > > dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org list is closed/private to ISC. The correct address for this list is . It is not an ISC closed or private list, it is an open list operated by OARC which anyone may participate in. The public archives can be found at: http://lists.oarci.net/pipermail/dns-operations/ Keith Mitchell OARC Programme Manager _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From KarlaaudienceFraser@peopleenespanol.com Fri Nov 09 15:52:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqaps-0005py-Qd; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:52:16 -0500 Received: from static-adsl201-232-10-118.epm.net.co ([201.232.10.118] helo=personal) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqaps-0004Ty-55; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:52:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host59888139.peopleenespanol.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id KP7kutzA14.698694.AnL.nY3.9504575092695 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 15:51:34 +0500 Message-ID: <6cbe01c82312$676d77f0$0101a8c0@personal> From: "Whitney Fraser" To: Cc: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
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    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_6CBA_01C82312.676D77F0-- From JaimeconsumeCaudill@interfax.ru Fri Nov 09 16:51:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqbl9-0005cZ-3l; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:51:27 -0500 Received: from c-24-128-145-236.hsd1.nh.comcast.net ([24.128.145.236] helo=dhrbfxb1.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqbl8-0006e6-Rk; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:51:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host45222741.interfax.ru (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id cjwvBg9X32.612112.I6C.1NS.0163938532523 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 16:50:51 +0500 Message-ID: <1a3ab01c8231a$a44a1720$6601a8c0@DHRBFXB1> From: "Nettie Dumas" To: Cc: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_1A3A7_01C8231A.A44A1720-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 19:08:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqdtX-0005fq-R1; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:08:15 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqdtW-0005fh-CR for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:08:14 -0500 Received: from bortzmeyer.netaktiv.com ([80.67.170.53] helo=mail.bortzmeyer.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqdtW-00031k-1b for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:08:14 -0500 Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id A87AE240817; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:08:03 +0100 (CET) Received: by horcrux (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AB024158F01; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 14:58:11 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 14:58:11 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: dnsop@ietf.org Message-ID: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Ubuntu 7.10 (gutsy) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Subject: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org The ICANN Anti-Phishing Working Group has put forward a set of best practice recommendations for ICANN registrars, currently a draft: http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/registrars/msg05187.html One item is of relevance to us. They state: > Name servers should be specified as both FQDN *and* as IP addresses; > do not allow FQDN's alone. [The rationale is to detect and limit Fast Flux.] I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it was necessary for the glue? _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 09 19:08:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqdtX-0005fq-R1; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:08:15 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqdtW-0005fh-CR for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:08:14 -0500 Received: from bortzmeyer.netaktiv.com ([80.67.170.53] helo=mail.bortzmeyer.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqdtW-00031k-1b for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:08:14 -0500 Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id A87AE240817; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:08:03 +0100 (CET) Received: by horcrux (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AB024158F01; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 14:58:11 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 14:58:11 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: dnsop@ietf.org Message-ID: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Ubuntu 7.10 (gutsy) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Subject: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org The ICANN Anti-Phishing Working Group has put forward a set of best practice recommendations for ICANN registrars, currently a draft: http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/registrars/msg05187.html One item is of relevance to us. They state: > Name servers should be specified as both FQDN *and* as IP addresses; > do not allow FQDN's alone. [The rationale is to detect and limit Fast Flux.] I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it was necessary for the glue? _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From HillaryartemisThayer@spearsmfg.com Fri Nov 09 19:21:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqe6K-0005HY-6L for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:21:28 -0500 Received: from pool-71-187-79-223.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net ([71.187.79.223] helo=aaronc418e6059.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqe6J-0003Sh-Nr for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:21:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host10789031.spearsmfg.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id CdQzcrS988.227624.W0B.rDI.2233865928816 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 19:21:14 +0500 Message-ID: <742c3c01c8232f$a7437470$0401a8c0@aaronc418e6059> From: "Althea Witherspoon" To: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_742C38_01C8232F.A7437470-- From AnnabelleopelLooney@spearsmfg.com Fri Nov 09 19:26:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqeAo-000104-5h; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:26:06 -0500 Received: from pool-71-242-50-84.phlapa.east.verizon.net ([71.242.50.84] helo=yourerdmfhmlp8.myhome.westell.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqeAn-0003eD-Ee; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:26:05 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host38021480.spearsmfg.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id AtTadA8X18.226940.lNJ.86y.5004257295234 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 19:25:38 +0500 Message-ID: <171f4301c82330$467479e0$2f01a8c0@yourerdmfhmlp8> From: "Earnestine Gagne" To: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_171F3F_01C82330.467479E0-- From AndrewrobinBaker@gobritney.com Fri Nov 09 21:22:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqfzJ-0001zq-LX; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:22:21 -0500 Received: from pool-71-190-209-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net ([71.190.209.183] helo=dell.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqfzJ-0007BW-ED; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:22:21 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host83237745.gobritney.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id JiOXsW5Y75.217150.Ji2.FWe.3767937603607 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 21:21:59 +0500 Message-ID: <367b701c82340$8489ed90$0401a8c0@Dell> From: "Anthony King" To: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_367B3_01C82340.8489ED90-- From JaninexpedientWilkerson@newscientist.com Fri Nov 09 21:22:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqfzL-00021E-FG; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:22:23 -0500 Received: from 168-193-21-190.adsl.terra.cl ([190.21.193.168] helo=contabilidad) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqfzJ-0007BG-Vy; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:22:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host04907472.newscientist.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id yGR1XNza16.326122.cUf.u4r.8173920572357 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:21:46 -0100 Message-ID: From: "Edmond Underwood" To: Subject: Approval process Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:21:46 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_BE406_01C82340.7FFEC020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_BE406_01C82340.7FFEC020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_BE406_01C82340.7FFEC020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

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    10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
    30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
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    90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
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    ------=_NextPart_000_BE406_01C82340.7FFEC020-- From IsaacimmediateSoto@interfax.ru Fri Nov 09 23:23:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqhsa-0004yr-Df; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 23:23:32 -0500 Received: from 156-82-112.adsl.terra.cl ([200.112.82.156] helo=home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqhsZ-0001iv-2k; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 23:23:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host92629451.interfax.ru (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id QnDJUUBc82.947302.NCr.fJz.3639983723057 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2007 01:22:43 -0100 Message-ID: From: "Casey Lowe" To: Cc: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
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    ------=_NextPart_000_FF74_01C823F9.0DAC3E80-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sat Nov 10 00:21:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqimc-0002hd-VA; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:21:26 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqimb-0002gV-Kf for dnsop@ietf.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:21:25 -0500 Received: from mx.isc.org ([2001:4f8:0:2::1c]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqima-0003mK-9L for dnsop@ietf.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:21:25 -0500 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07E7711402B for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:21:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8A3E6067 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:21:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lAA5L8sn067844; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:21:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200711100521.lAA5L8sn067844@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Joe Abley From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:56:18 CDT." <53499CB7-6CA8-43C1-BF2D-1175A22202D4@ca.afilias.info> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:21:08 +1100 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 7268a2980febc47a9fa732aba2b737ba Cc: Dean Anderson , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org > > On 8-Nov-2007, at 23:18, Dean Anderson wrote: > > > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Antonio Querubin wrote: > > > >> With all the on-going discussion in various circles going on about > >> IPv6 > >> it's a pity the root hints is still missing IPv6 addresses. > > > > There's no room for IPv6 hints. The 512 byte maximum size is full. > > A priming query response which includes a full set of IPv4 courtesy > glue in the additional section is 436 bytes long (see below). > > It's not clear that there is a requirement for the additional section > to contain courtesy glue which is represents a complete set of all > addresses of the thirteen root servers; the practical requirement is > that it contains enough courtesy glue that an address for at least one > reachable server is provided. > > There is a massive installed base of DNS clients, some very old, and > hence some degree of caution in adding AAAA glue seems prudent. Such > caution seems evident in the testbed and associated testing that was > described in those RSSAC/SSAC URLs that were mentioned earlier. > > From a protocol perspective, however, I think it's clear that a > response to a priming query which includes AAAA courtesy glue will not > necessary require EDNS0, or TCP transport. > > > Turning on ENDSO or requiring TCP connections entangles all sorts of > > problems with DNS Root Anycast, because those services aren't > > stateless, > > and Anycast isn't reliable with stateful services. > > I will refrain on commenting on your assertions about the suitability > of anycast for DNS services, since I have no points to make here that > have not been made in public many times before. > > > Of course, there really isn't any reason to have the same 13 IPv4 > > servers handle IPv6 addresses. A different set of IPv6 root servers > > (not anycasted) is what is needed for IPv6 operation. > > No, there is no requirement to use different servers for IPv6 > operation, and also no need for whichever servers are used not to be > distributed using anycast. > > > Joe > > [calamari:~]% dig . ns > > ; <<>> DiG 9.4.1-P1 <<>> . ns > ;; global options: printcmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 33203 > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 13 > > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;. IN NS > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > . 518400 IN NS A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > > ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: > A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 198.41.0.4 > B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.228.79.201 > C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.33.4.12 > D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 128.8.10.90 > E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.203.230.10 > F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 192.5.5.241 > G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.112.36.4 > H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 128.63.2.53 > I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.36.148.17 > J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 192.58.128.30 > K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 193.0.14.129 > L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 199.7.83.42 > M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 202.12.27.33 > > ;; Query time: 168 msec > ;; SERVER: 199.212.90.6#53(199.212.90.6) > ;; WHEN: Fri Nov 9 11:48:32 2007 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 436 > > [calamari:~]% > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop Additionally the answer to a root priming query would look something like this once the AAAA are added. No EDNS involved, no TCP involved. ; <<>> DiG 9.3.4-P1 <<>> ns . ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 50718 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 15 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;. IN NS ;; ANSWER SECTION: . 437045 IN NS f.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS i.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS k.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS l.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS j.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS g.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS h.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS m.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS a.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS d.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS c.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS b.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS e.root-servers.net. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: a.root-servers.net. 172751 IN A 198.41.0.4 b.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 192.228.79.201 c.root-servers.net. 172751 IN A 192.33.4.12 d.root-servers.net. 172751 IN A 128.8.10.90 e.root-servers.net. 172752 IN A 192.203.230.10 f.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 192.5.5.241 g.root-servers.net. 172752 IN A 192.112.36.4 h.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 128.63.2.53 i.root-servers.net. 172752 IN A 192.36.148.17 j.root-servers.net. 172753 IN A 192.58.128.30 k.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 193.0.14.129 l.root-servers.net. 172753 IN A 199.7.83.42 m.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 202.12.27.33 b.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:478:65::53 f.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:500::1035 ;; Query time: 2 msec ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) ;; WHEN: Sat Nov 10 16:14:55 2007 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 492 Note "preferred-glue A;". IPv6 clients are all supposed to support EDNS. So their priming query would look like this which is less than the IPv6 network MTU. Again this doesn't require TCP. ; <<>> DiG 9.3.4-P1 <<>> +bufsize=1400 ns . ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 20864 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 19 ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 1460 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;. IN NS ;; ANSWER SECTION: . 436799 IN NS c.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS e.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS a.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS j.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS m.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS k.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS d.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS b.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS h.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS i.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS l.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS g.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS f.root-servers.net. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: a.root-servers.net. 172505 IN A 198.41.0.4 b.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 192.228.79.201 c.root-servers.net. 172505 IN A 192.33.4.12 d.root-servers.net. 172505 IN A 128.8.10.90 e.root-servers.net. 172506 IN A 192.203.230.10 f.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 192.5.5.241 g.root-servers.net. 172506 IN A 192.112.36.4 h.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 128.63.2.53 i.root-servers.net. 172506 IN A 192.36.148.17 j.root-servers.net. 172507 IN A 192.58.128.30 k.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 193.0.14.129 l.root-servers.net. 172507 IN A 199.7.83.42 m.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 202.12.27.33 b.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:478:65::53 f.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:500::1035 h.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:500:1::803f:235 k.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:7fd::1 m.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:dc3::35 ;; Query time: 4 msec ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) ;; WHEN: Sat Nov 10 16:19:01 2007 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 587 Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sat Nov 10 00:21:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqimc-0002hd-VA; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:21:26 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqimb-0002gV-Kf for dnsop@ietf.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:21:25 -0500 Received: from mx.isc.org ([2001:4f8:0:2::1c]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqima-0003mK-9L for dnsop@ietf.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:21:25 -0500 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07E7711402B for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:21:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8A3E6067 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:21:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lAA5L8sn067844; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:21:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200711100521.lAA5L8sn067844@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Joe Abley From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: DNS servers In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:56:18 CDT." <53499CB7-6CA8-43C1-BF2D-1175A22202D4@ca.afilias.info> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:21:08 +1100 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 7268a2980febc47a9fa732aba2b737ba Cc: Dean Anderson , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org > > On 8-Nov-2007, at 23:18, Dean Anderson wrote: > > > On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Antonio Querubin wrote: > > > >> With all the on-going discussion in various circles going on about > >> IPv6 > >> it's a pity the root hints is still missing IPv6 addresses. > > > > There's no room for IPv6 hints. The 512 byte maximum size is full. > > A priming query response which includes a full set of IPv4 courtesy > glue in the additional section is 436 bytes long (see below). > > It's not clear that there is a requirement for the additional section > to contain courtesy glue which is represents a complete set of all > addresses of the thirteen root servers; the practical requirement is > that it contains enough courtesy glue that an address for at least one > reachable server is provided. > > There is a massive installed base of DNS clients, some very old, and > hence some degree of caution in adding AAAA glue seems prudent. Such > caution seems evident in the testbed and associated testing that was > described in those RSSAC/SSAC URLs that were mentioned earlier. > > From a protocol perspective, however, I think it's clear that a > response to a priming query which includes AAAA courtesy glue will not > necessary require EDNS0, or TCP transport. > > > Turning on ENDSO or requiring TCP connections entangles all sorts of > > problems with DNS Root Anycast, because those services aren't > > stateless, > > and Anycast isn't reliable with stateful services. > > I will refrain on commenting on your assertions about the suitability > of anycast for DNS services, since I have no points to make here that > have not been made in public many times before. > > > Of course, there really isn't any reason to have the same 13 IPv4 > > servers handle IPv6 addresses. A different set of IPv6 root servers > > (not anycasted) is what is needed for IPv6 operation. > > No, there is no requirement to use different servers for IPv6 > operation, and also no need for whichever servers are used not to be > distributed using anycast. > > > Joe > > [calamari:~]% dig . ns > > ; <<>> DiG 9.4.1-P1 <<>> . ns > ;; global options: printcmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 33203 > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 13 > > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;. IN NS > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > . 518400 IN NS A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > . 518400 IN NS M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > > ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: > A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 198.41.0.4 > B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.228.79.201 > C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.33.4.12 > D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 128.8.10.90 > E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.203.230.10 > F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 192.5.5.241 > G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.112.36.4 > H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 128.63.2.53 > I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 192.36.148.17 > J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 192.58.128.30 > K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 19107 IN A 193.0.14.129 > L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 199.7.83.42 > M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. 27214 IN A 202.12.27.33 > > ;; Query time: 168 msec > ;; SERVER: 199.212.90.6#53(199.212.90.6) > ;; WHEN: Fri Nov 9 11:48:32 2007 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 436 > > [calamari:~]% > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop Additionally the answer to a root priming query would look something like this once the AAAA are added. No EDNS involved, no TCP involved. ; <<>> DiG 9.3.4-P1 <<>> ns . ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 50718 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 15 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;. IN NS ;; ANSWER SECTION: . 437045 IN NS f.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS i.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS k.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS l.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS j.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS g.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS h.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS m.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS a.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS d.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS c.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS b.root-servers.net. . 437045 IN NS e.root-servers.net. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: a.root-servers.net. 172751 IN A 198.41.0.4 b.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 192.228.79.201 c.root-servers.net. 172751 IN A 192.33.4.12 d.root-servers.net. 172751 IN A 128.8.10.90 e.root-servers.net. 172752 IN A 192.203.230.10 f.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 192.5.5.241 g.root-servers.net. 172752 IN A 192.112.36.4 h.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 128.63.2.53 i.root-servers.net. 172752 IN A 192.36.148.17 j.root-servers.net. 172753 IN A 192.58.128.30 k.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 193.0.14.129 l.root-servers.net. 172753 IN A 199.7.83.42 m.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 202.12.27.33 b.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:478:65::53 f.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:500::1035 ;; Query time: 2 msec ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) ;; WHEN: Sat Nov 10 16:14:55 2007 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 492 Note "preferred-glue A;". IPv6 clients are all supposed to support EDNS. So their priming query would look like this which is less than the IPv6 network MTU. Again this doesn't require TCP. ; <<>> DiG 9.3.4-P1 <<>> +bufsize=1400 ns . ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 20864 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 19 ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 1460 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;. IN NS ;; ANSWER SECTION: . 436799 IN NS c.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS e.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS a.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS j.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS m.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS k.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS d.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS b.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS h.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS i.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS l.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS g.root-servers.net. . 436799 IN NS f.root-servers.net. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: a.root-servers.net. 172505 IN A 198.41.0.4 b.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 192.228.79.201 c.root-servers.net. 172505 IN A 192.33.4.12 d.root-servers.net. 172505 IN A 128.8.10.90 e.root-servers.net. 172506 IN A 192.203.230.10 f.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 192.5.5.241 g.root-servers.net. 172506 IN A 192.112.36.4 h.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 128.63.2.53 i.root-servers.net. 172506 IN A 192.36.148.17 j.root-servers.net. 172507 IN A 192.58.128.30 k.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 193.0.14.129 l.root-servers.net. 172507 IN A 199.7.83.42 m.root-servers.net. 3600 IN A 202.12.27.33 b.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:478:65::53 f.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:500::1035 h.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:500:1::803f:235 k.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:7fd::1 m.root-servers.net. 3600 IN AAAA 2001:dc3::35 ;; Query time: 4 msec ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) ;; WHEN: Sat Nov 10 16:19:01 2007 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 587 Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From ricardo@stswithuns.com Sat Nov 10 00:23:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqiok-0004wB-EK for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:23:38 -0500 Received: from [59.94.74.182] (helo=59.94.74.182) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqioj-0003E0-Gu for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:23:38 -0500 Received: from [59.94.74.182] by dns02e.hants.gov.uk; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:23:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000501c82359$0286728c$3c2c9694@xeksbnp> From: "gregg kang-wuu" To: Subject: Hermes Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:36:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C82359.0283BF47" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C82359.0283BF47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Prestige replicas =20 Most popular watches Rolex Sports Models•Chanel•Jacob & = Co•Patek•Philippe =20 =20 Most popular TIFFANY & CO. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8237E.905B8EB0-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sat Nov 10 08:08:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqq4D-00034z-N3; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:08:05 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqhdf-0002CD-Cl for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 23:08:07 -0500 Received: from smtp1.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.14] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqhde-0001Oj-Tv for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 23:08:07 -0500 Received: from [10.0.0.197] (static-71-103-246-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.103.246.131]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lAA483Yg021448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 9 Nov 2007 20:08:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: John Crain To: Stephane Bortzmeyer In-Reply-To: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v912) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 20:08:02 -0800 References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.912) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:08:04 -0500 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi Stephane, Just to Clarify, APWG is not an ICANN working group. Their site is .... http://www.apwg.org John L. Crain On 9 Nov 2007, at 05:58, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > The ICANN Anti-Phishing Working Group has put forward a set of best > practice recommendations for ICANN registrars, currently a draft: > > http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/registrars/msg05187.html > > One item is of relevance to us. They state: > >> Name servers should be specified as both FQDN *and* as IP addresses; >> do not allow FQDN's alone. > > [The rationale is to detect and limit Fast Flux.] > > I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it > was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it > was necessary for the glue? > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sat Nov 10 08:08:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqq4D-00034z-N3; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:08:05 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqhdf-0002CD-Cl for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 23:08:07 -0500 Received: from smtp1.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.14] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqhde-0001Oj-Tv for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 23:08:07 -0500 Received: from [10.0.0.197] (static-71-103-246-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.103.246.131]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lAA483Yg021448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 9 Nov 2007 20:08:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: John Crain To: Stephane Bortzmeyer In-Reply-To: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v912) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 20:08:02 -0800 References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.912) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:08:04 -0500 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi Stephane, Just to Clarify, APWG is not an ICANN working group. Their site is .... http://www.apwg.org John L. Crain On 9 Nov 2007, at 05:58, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > The ICANN Anti-Phishing Working Group has put forward a set of best > practice recommendations for ICANN registrars, currently a draft: > > http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/registrars/msg05187.html > > One item is of relevance to us. They state: > >> Name servers should be specified as both FQDN *and* as IP addresses; >> do not allow FQDN's alone. > > [The rationale is to detect and limit Fast Flux.] > > I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it > was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it > was necessary for the glue? > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sat Nov 10 08:08:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqq4s-0003g2-8u; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:08:46 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqeJQ-000597-9I for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:35:00 -0500 Received: from shvirpr4-vip1.extra.daimlerchrysler.com ([129.9.168.76] helo=shvirpr4.extra.daimlerchrysler.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqeJM-0005kB-LQ for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:35:00 -0500 Received: from shnavip4-hme0.shdc.chrysler.com (unknown [53.231.141.98]) by shvirpr4.extra.daimlerchrysler.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D4AF10FE32 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 19:27:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from wokcdts1.is.chrysler.com ([53.230.98.85]) by shnavip4-hme0.shdc.chrysler.com (SMSSMTP 4.1.7.33) with SMTP id M2007110919345510462 for ; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:34:55 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wokcdts1.is.chrysler.com (8.13.6/8.9.1) with ESMTP id lAA0YtWq010807 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 19:34:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4734FCAF.6060300@chrysler.com> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:34:55 -0500 From: Kevin Darcy User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060113) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> In-Reply-To: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:08:45 -0500 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > The ICANN Anti-Phishing Working Group has put forward a set of best > practice recommendations for ICANN registrars, currently a draft: > > http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/registrars/msg05187.html > > One item is of relevance to us. They state: > > >> Name servers should be specified as both FQDN *and* as IP addresses; >> do not allow FQDN's alone. >> > > [The rationale is to detect and limit Fast Flux.] > > I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it > was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it > was necessary for the glue? > > The document is not clear. The text to which you refer appears in a section on data validation, where the measures enumerated are only for the purpose of detecting "suspicious" domain registrations. But, the subsections directly underneath that text read: "(i) This can reduce the use of fast flux name servers (ii) Tying FQDN to specific IP's will ensure illegitimate domains can not [sic] be associated with botnets [lack of punctuation here leads to syntactic ambiguity - kcd] ensuring the timely removal of illegitimate content" both of which contemplate some sort of "tying" between names and addresses which is not clearly spelled out in the document. (Glue? Not glue?) I reserve judgment until the document is clarified. - Kevin _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sat Nov 10 08:08:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iqq4s-0003g2-8u; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:08:46 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqeJQ-000597-9I for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:35:00 -0500 Received: from shvirpr4-vip1.extra.daimlerchrysler.com ([129.9.168.76] helo=shvirpr4.extra.daimlerchrysler.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqeJM-0005kB-LQ for dnsop@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:35:00 -0500 Received: from shnavip4-hme0.shdc.chrysler.com (unknown [53.231.141.98]) by shvirpr4.extra.daimlerchrysler.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D4AF10FE32 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 19:27:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from wokcdts1.is.chrysler.com ([53.230.98.85]) by shnavip4-hme0.shdc.chrysler.com (SMSSMTP 4.1.7.33) with SMTP id M2007110919345510462 for ; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:34:55 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wokcdts1.is.chrysler.com (8.13.6/8.9.1) with ESMTP id lAA0YtWq010807 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 19:34:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4734FCAF.6060300@chrysler.com> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:34:55 -0500 From: Kevin Darcy User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060113) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> In-Reply-To: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:08:45 -0500 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > The ICANN Anti-Phishing Working Group has put forward a set of best > practice recommendations for ICANN registrars, currently a draft: > > http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/registrars/msg05187.html > > One item is of relevance to us. They state: > > >> Name servers should be specified as both FQDN *and* as IP addresses; >> do not allow FQDN's alone. >> > > [The rationale is to detect and limit Fast Flux.] > > I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it > was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it > was necessary for the glue? > > The document is not clear. The text to which you refer appears in a section on data validation, where the measures enumerated are only for the purpose of detecting "suspicious" domain registrations. But, the subsections directly underneath that text read: "(i) This can reduce the use of fast flux name servers (ii) Tying FQDN to specific IP's will ensure illegitimate domains can not [sic] be associated with botnets [lack of punctuation here leads to syntactic ambiguity - kcd] ensuring the timely removal of illegitimate content" both of which contemplate some sort of "tying" between names and addresses which is not clearly spelled out in the document. (Glue? Not glue?) I reserve judgment until the document is clarified. - Kevin _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From ShelleygrecianBrantley@economist.com Sat Nov 10 08:16:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqqBs-0005Dq-Nc for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:16:00 -0500 Received: from [201.244.64.178] (helo=administracion) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IqqBs-00088O-9Y for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:16:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host63567181.economist.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id HOddsdnm22.908849.gVG.Pwp.8086870239872 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:15:34 +0500 Message-ID: <458801c8239b$d2720550$0e00a8c0@administracion> From: "Flora Simons" To: , =20

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    ------=_NextPart_000_1BE552_01C8257B.8804CC00-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 12 17:31:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrhoO-00068v-OS; Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:31:20 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrhoN-00068k-Ha for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:31:19 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrhoI-0000Ew-Sd for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:31:19 -0500 Received: from [199.212.90.16] (helo=yxu1a16.hopcount.ca) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IrhoH-0002O8-AI; Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:31:13 +0000 Message-Id: From: Joe Abley To: Stephane Bortzmeyer In-Reply-To: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v912) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:31:12 -0500 References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.912) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On 9-Nov-2007, at 08:58, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > [The rationale is to detect and limit Fast Flux.] > > I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it > was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it > was necessary for the glue? Is this not also codified in the EPP specification? I thought there was language to the effect that you MUST specify one or more addresses for host objects which are subordinate to the registry apex, but that you MUST NOT specify addresses for hosts which are not. I went hunting through RFCs to try and find text to quote, but came up empty (although admittedly I only skimmed through the text). Perhaps I was looking in the wrong place? Or am I just confused? Joe _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 12 17:31:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrhoO-00068v-OS; Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:31:20 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrhoN-00068k-Ha for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:31:19 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrhoI-0000Ew-Sd for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:31:19 -0500 Received: from [199.212.90.16] (helo=yxu1a16.hopcount.ca) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IrhoH-0002O8-AI; Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:31:13 +0000 Message-Id: From: Joe Abley To: Stephane Bortzmeyer In-Reply-To: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v912) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:31:12 -0500 References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.912) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On 9-Nov-2007, at 08:58, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > [The rationale is to detect and limit Fast Flux.] > > I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it > was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it > was necessary for the glue? Is this not also codified in the EPP specification? I thought there was language to the effect that you MUST specify one or more addresses for host objects which are subordinate to the registry apex, but that you MUST NOT specify addresses for hosts which are not. I went hunting through RFCs to try and find text to quote, but came up empty (although admittedly I only skimmed through the text). Perhaps I was looking in the wrong place? Or am I just confused? 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    ------=_NextPart_000_8B3D0_01C825D1.00CA4E30-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 13 05:27:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrszX-0008GG-Rd; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:27:35 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrszX-0008GA-Ae for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:27:35 -0500 Received: from vic20.blipp.com ([217.75.101.38]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrszU-0004JR-GJ for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:27:35 -0500 Received: by vic20.blipp.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 86599EF4D5; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:27:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:27:31 +0100 From: Patrik Wallstrom To: dns-wg@ripe.net Message-ID: <20071113102731.GA19204@vic20.blipp.com> Mail-Followup-To: dns-wg@ripe.net, dns-operations@lists.oarci.net, dnsop@ietf.org, shl@iis.se MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: Foodfight Stockholm User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, shl@iis.se, dns-operations@lists.oarci.net Subject: [DNSOP] DNS test protocol X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0149326199==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============0149326199== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO" Content-Disposition: inline --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =2ESE is currently performing DNS tests of consumer broadband routers as we have had problems with DNSSEC and these types of products (EDNS0 and so on). We have been running a number of tests using the attached test specification. However, we would like to broaden the scope of our tests to include non-DNSSEC specific tests such as unknown RR types. If there are more specific tests regarding ENUM or IPv6 we could do please propose them to me. We assume that AAAA works, but could include that as well. We have also decided to test if the router is an open resolver on the external interface. Please read the test protocol and give me your comments, thanks. Patrik Wallstr=C3=B6m Project Manager, R&D =2ESE (Stiftelsen f=C3=B6r Internetinfrastruktur) E-mail: patrik.wallstrom@iis.se Web: http://www.iis.se/ --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHOXwTXP9l7Jnf3xURAtUvAKCJYaLnCAkJz6B7rA1JgJSeG6Z1uwCeJmC9 DvnlO7iGWbpFuWUoAbSCOzo= =U66E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO-- --===============0149326199== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --===============0149326199==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 13 05:27:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrszX-0008GG-Rd; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:27:35 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrszX-0008GA-Ae for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:27:35 -0500 Received: from vic20.blipp.com ([217.75.101.38]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrszU-0004JR-GJ for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:27:35 -0500 Received: by vic20.blipp.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 86599EF4D5; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:27:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:27:31 +0100 From: Patrik Wallstrom To: dns-wg@ripe.net Message-ID: <20071113102731.GA19204@vic20.blipp.com> Mail-Followup-To: dns-wg@ripe.net, dns-operations@lists.oarci.net, dnsop@ietf.org, shl@iis.se MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: Foodfight Stockholm User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, shl@iis.se, dns-operations@lists.oarci.net Subject: [DNSOP] DNS test protocol X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0149326199==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============0149326199== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO" Content-Disposition: inline --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =2ESE is currently performing DNS tests of consumer broadband routers as we have had problems with DNSSEC and these types of products (EDNS0 and so on). We have been running a number of tests using the attached test specification. However, we would like to broaden the scope of our tests to include non-DNSSEC specific tests such as unknown RR types. If there are more specific tests regarding ENUM or IPv6 we could do please propose them to me. We assume that AAAA works, but could include that as well. We have also decided to test if the router is an open resolver on the external interface. Please read the test protocol and give me your comments, thanks. Patrik Wallstr=C3=B6m Project Manager, R&D =2ESE (Stiftelsen f=C3=B6r Internetinfrastruktur) E-mail: patrik.wallstrom@iis.se Web: http://www.iis.se/ --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHOXwTXP9l7Jnf3xURAtUvAKCJYaLnCAkJz6B7rA1JgJSeG6Z1uwCeJmC9 DvnlO7iGWbpFuWUoAbSCOzo= =U66E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO-- --===============0149326199== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --===============0149326199==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 13 05:52:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtNR-0006b9-Lg; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:52:17 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtNQ-0006Z7-Hj for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:52:16 -0500 Received: from vic20.blipp.com ([217.75.101.38]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtNP-0005yT-Su for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:52:16 -0500 Received: by vic20.blipp.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9B8D3EF4DB; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:52:14 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:52:14 +0100 From: Patrik Wallstrom To: dns-wg@ripe.net, dns-operations@lists.oarci.net, dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] DNS test protocol Message-ID: <20071113105214.GD19204@vic20.blipp.com> Mail-Followup-To: dns-wg@ripe.net, dns-operations@lists.oarci.net, dnsop@ietf.org References: <20071113102731.GA19204@vic20.blipp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20071113102731.GA19204@vic20.blipp.com> Organization: Foodfight Stockholm User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68ba2b07ef271dba6ee42a93832cfa4c Cc: X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1433575849==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============1433575849== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j" Content-Disposition: inline --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="CdrF4e02JqNVZeln" Content-Disposition: inline --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, the attachment was missing. --=20 Patrik Wallstr=C3=B6m Project Manager, R&D =2ESE (Stiftelsen f=C3=B6r Internetinfrastruktur) E-mail: patrik.wallstrom@iis.se Web: http://www.iis.se/ --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="bb-fw-test-en.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DNS test protocol for SOHO-routers ************************************************************ *** Is the router EDNS0 capable ************************************************************ *** Does the router give the client ENDS0 traffic A.1.1: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D512 +qr small.nxdomain.se TXT A.1.2: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D512 +qr medium.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.1.3: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D512 +qr large.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.1.4: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D512 +qr huge.nxdomain.se TXT A.2.1: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D1024 +qr small.nxdomain.se TXT A.2.2: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D1024 +qr medium.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.2.3: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D1024 +qr large.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.2.4: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D1024 +qr huge.nxdomain.se TXT A.3.1: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D4096 +qr small.nxdomain.se TXT A.3.2: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D4096 +qr medium.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.3.3: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D4096 +qr large.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.3.4: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D4096 +qr huge.nxdomain.se TXT A.4.1: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D8192 +qr small.nxdomain.se TXT A.4.2: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D8192 +qr medium.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.4.3: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D8192 +qr large.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.4.4: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D8192 +qr huge.nxdomain.se TXT ************************************************************ **** AD=3D1 in the reply ************************************************************ *** Does the router accept replies with AD=3D1 B.1: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.1 +qr dnssec.se SOA *** Does the router accept replies with AD=3D0 B.2: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr dnssec.se SOA ************************************************************ **** DO=3D1 in query ************************************************************ *** Does the router accept queries with DO=3D1, replies with AD=3D1 C.1: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr +dnssec dnssec.se SOA *** Does the router accept queries with DO=3D1, replies with AD=3D0 C.2: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr +dnssec iis.se SOA ************************************************************ **** DO=3D1, CD=3D1 in query ************************************************************ *** Does the router accept queries with DO=3D1, CD=3D1 D.1: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr +dnssec +cdflag dnssec.s= e SOA *** Does the router accept queries with DO=3D1, CD=3D1 D.2: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr +dnssec +cdflag iis.se S= OA ************************************************************ **** AD=3D1 in query ************************************************************ *** Does the router accept queries with AD=3D1, replies with AD=3D1 E.1: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.1 +qr +adflag dnssec.se SOA *** Does the router accept queries with AD=3D1, replies with AD=3D0 E.2: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr +adflag dnssec.se SOA ************************************************************ **** Open resolver in the router? (test from the "outside") ************************************************************ F.1: dig +retry=3D0 @router nonexisting.dnssec.se TXT --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln-- --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHOYHeXP9l7Jnf3xURAjdtAJ9gB2meNjO47C+qoJYzCYQT1nPpCQCeKZ+q OFIfVBU2sTUtLMv+Hw5HJBg= =XPiA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j-- --===============1433575849== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --===============1433575849==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 13 05:52:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtNR-0006b9-Lg; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:52:17 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtNQ-0006Z7-Hj for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:52:16 -0500 Received: from vic20.blipp.com ([217.75.101.38]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtNP-0005yT-Su for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:52:16 -0500 Received: by vic20.blipp.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9B8D3EF4DB; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:52:14 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:52:14 +0100 From: Patrik Wallstrom To: dns-wg@ripe.net, dns-operations@lists.oarci.net, dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] DNS test protocol Message-ID: <20071113105214.GD19204@vic20.blipp.com> Mail-Followup-To: dns-wg@ripe.net, dns-operations@lists.oarci.net, dnsop@ietf.org References: <20071113102731.GA19204@vic20.blipp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20071113102731.GA19204@vic20.blipp.com> Organization: Foodfight Stockholm User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68ba2b07ef271dba6ee42a93832cfa4c Cc: X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1433575849==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============1433575849== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j" Content-Disposition: inline --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="CdrF4e02JqNVZeln" Content-Disposition: inline --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, the attachment was missing. --=20 Patrik Wallstr=C3=B6m Project Manager, R&D =2ESE (Stiftelsen f=C3=B6r Internetinfrastruktur) E-mail: patrik.wallstrom@iis.se Web: http://www.iis.se/ --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="bb-fw-test-en.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DNS test protocol for SOHO-routers ************************************************************ *** Is the router EDNS0 capable ************************************************************ *** Does the router give the client ENDS0 traffic A.1.1: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D512 +qr small.nxdomain.se TXT A.1.2: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D512 +qr medium.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.1.3: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D512 +qr large.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.1.4: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D512 +qr huge.nxdomain.se TXT A.2.1: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D1024 +qr small.nxdomain.se TXT A.2.2: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D1024 +qr medium.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.2.3: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D1024 +qr large.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.2.4: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D1024 +qr huge.nxdomain.se TXT A.3.1: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D4096 +qr small.nxdomain.se TXT A.3.2: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D4096 +qr medium.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.3.3: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D4096 +qr large.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.3.4: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D4096 +qr huge.nxdomain.se TXT A.4.1: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D8192 +qr small.nxdomain.se TXT A.4.2: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D8192 +qr medium.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.4.3: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D8192 +qr large.nxdomain.se TXT=20 A.4.4: dig +retry=3D0 +bufsize=3D8192 +qr huge.nxdomain.se TXT ************************************************************ **** AD=3D1 in the reply ************************************************************ *** Does the router accept replies with AD=3D1 B.1: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.1 +qr dnssec.se SOA *** Does the router accept replies with AD=3D0 B.2: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr dnssec.se SOA ************************************************************ **** DO=3D1 in query ************************************************************ *** Does the router accept queries with DO=3D1, replies with AD=3D1 C.1: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr +dnssec dnssec.se SOA *** Does the router accept queries with DO=3D1, replies with AD=3D0 C.2: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr +dnssec iis.se SOA ************************************************************ **** DO=3D1, CD=3D1 in query ************************************************************ *** Does the router accept queries with DO=3D1, CD=3D1 D.1: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr +dnssec +cdflag dnssec.s= e SOA *** Does the router accept queries with DO=3D1, CD=3D1 D.2: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr +dnssec +cdflag iis.se S= OA ************************************************************ **** AD=3D1 in query ************************************************************ *** Does the router accept queries with AD=3D1, replies with AD=3D1 E.1: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.1 +qr +adflag dnssec.se SOA *** Does the router accept queries with AD=3D1, replies with AD=3D0 E.2: dig +retry=3D0 @validator-with-BIND_9.4.2 +qr +adflag dnssec.se SOA ************************************************************ **** Open resolver in the router? (test from the "outside") ************************************************************ F.1: dig +retry=3D0 @router nonexisting.dnssec.se TXT --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln-- --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHOYHeXP9l7Jnf3xURAjdtAJ9gB2meNjO47C+qoJYzCYQT1nPpCQCeKZ+q OFIfVBU2sTUtLMv+Hw5HJBg= =XPiA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j-- --===============1433575849== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --===============1433575849==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 13 05:55:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtQ7-0002IM-8A; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:55:03 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtQ6-0002Gf-3q for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:55:02 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtPz-0005C5-F8 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:55:02 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lADArpEn023103; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:53:52 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lADArpsj023102; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:53:51 GMT Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:53:51 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: dns-wg@ripe.net, dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dnsop@ietf.org, shl@iis.se Message-ID: <20071113105350.GA23065@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071113102731.GA19204@vic20.blipp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071113102731.GA19204@vic20.blipp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by vacation.karoshi.com id lADArpEn023103 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Cc: Subject: [DNSOP] Re: [dns-wg] DNS test protocol X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org I presume you have been using the tahi testsuite and are wanting something -different-? http://www.tahi.org/dns/ --bill On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 11:27:31AM +0100, Patrik Wallstrom wrote: > Hi, >=20 > .SE is currently performing DNS tests of consumer broadband routers as > we have had problems with DNSSEC and these types of products (EDNS0 > and so on). We have been running a number of tests using the attached > test specification. However, we would like to broaden the scope of our > tests to include non-DNSSEC specific tests such as unknown RR types. > If there are more specific tests regarding ENUM or IPv6 we could do > please propose them to me. We assume that AAAA works, but could > include that as well. We have also decided to test if the router is an > open resolver on the external interface. >=20 > Please read the test protocol and give me your comments, thanks. >=20 > Patrik Wallstr=F6m > Project Manager, R&D > .SE (Stiftelsen f=F6r Internetinfrastruktur) > E-mail: patrik.wallstrom@iis.se > Web: http://www.iis.se/ _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 13 05:55:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtQ7-0002IM-8A; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:55:03 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtQ6-0002Gf-3q for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:55:02 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IrtPz-0005C5-F8 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:55:02 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lADArpEn023103; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:53:52 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lADArpsj023102; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:53:51 GMT Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:53:51 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: dns-wg@ripe.net, dns-operations@mail.oarc.isc.org, dnsop@ietf.org, shl@iis.se Message-ID: <20071113105350.GA23065@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071113102731.GA19204@vic20.blipp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071113102731.GA19204@vic20.blipp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by vacation.karoshi.com id lADArpEn023103 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Cc: Subject: [DNSOP] Re: [dns-wg] DNS test protocol X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org I presume you have been using the tahi testsuite and are wanting something -different-? http://www.tahi.org/dns/ --bill On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 11:27:31AM +0100, Patrik Wallstrom wrote: > Hi, >=20 > .SE is currently performing DNS tests of consumer broadband routers as > we have had problems with DNSSEC and these types of products (EDNS0 > and so on). We have been running a number of tests using the attached > test specification. However, we would like to broaden the scope of our > tests to include non-DNSSEC specific tests such as unknown RR types. > If there are more specific tests regarding ENUM or IPv6 we could do > please propose them to me. We assume that AAAA works, but could > include that as well. We have also decided to test if the router is an > open resolver on the external interface. >=20 > Please read the test protocol and give me your comments, thanks. >=20 > Patrik Wallstr=F6m > Project Manager, R&D > .SE (Stiftelsen f=F6r Internetinfrastruktur) > E-mail: patrik.wallstrom@iis.se > Web: http://www.iis.se/ _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From hgpfw7gbbp@chello.com Tue Nov 13 06:40:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iru8H-0002Yr-Tc for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:40:41 -0500 Received: from [59.165.21.3] (helo=xayt) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iru8H-0007Tb-2q for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:40:41 -0500 To: From: "Margherita Taren" Subject: Rep1icaRolex' Online Shop | 1600+ modelsWatches to choose, only from bnw Message-ID: <263u08608.5266g99889087@chello.com> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:06:08 +0530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 :: New Arrival 2007 models :: RolexMens RolexLadies RolexSports RolexDateJusts A.Lange & Sohne Alain Silberstein Audemars Piguet Bell & Ross Breguet Breitling Bvlgari Cartier Chanel Chopard Chronoswiss Corum Franck Muller Glashutte Gucci Hermes Hublot IWC Jacob & Co Jaeger-Lecoultre Longines Louis Vuitton Mont Blanc Movado Omega Oris Panerai Patek Philippe Porsche Design Rado Roger Dubuis SWISS Rolex Tag Heuer Technomarine Vacheron Constantin Zenith Order Your Brand New Watches Now! http://rmlxac.qelittle.com http://rvpq.qelittle.com From gaston@seagate.com Tue Nov 13 06:55:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IruMy-0001R3-5u for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:55:52 -0500 Received: from nat2.rlan.ru ([213.234.25.1]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IruMx-0007vY-Je for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:55:52 -0500 Received: from [213.234.25.1] by pps2.sv-ext.mailhost.seagate.com; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:28:39 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c825e8$06111d3d$1232c394@jjwvwipd> From: "aksel ben" To: Subject: Women prefer black men only for one reason. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_30352_01C82615.D051CE50-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 13 14:32:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Is1Uj-00075U-SI; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:32:21 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Is1Ui-000737-JX for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:32:20 -0500 Received: from bortzmeyer.netaktiv.com ([80.67.170.53] helo=mail.bortzmeyer.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Is1Uf-0001GY-By for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:32:20 -0500 Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 23AE724083D; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:32:06 +0100 (CET) Received: by horcrux (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 008C71590AE; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:31:38 -0200 (BRST) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:31:38 -0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Joe Abley Message-ID: <20071113193138.GA21035@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Ubuntu 7.10 (gutsy) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 05:31:12PM -0500, Joe Abley wrote a message of 20 lines which said: > Is this not also codified in the EPP specification? RFC 4932, section 2.5 When a host object is provisioned for use as a DNS name server, IP addresses SHOULD be required only as needed to generate DNS glue records. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 13 14:32:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Is1Uj-00075U-SI; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:32:21 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Is1Ui-000737-JX for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:32:20 -0500 Received: from bortzmeyer.netaktiv.com ([80.67.170.53] helo=mail.bortzmeyer.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Is1Uf-0001GY-By for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:32:20 -0500 Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 23AE724083D; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:32:06 +0100 (CET) Received: by horcrux (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 008C71590AE; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:31:38 -0200 (BRST) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:31:38 -0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Joe Abley Message-ID: <20071113193138.GA21035@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Ubuntu 7.10 (gutsy) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 05:31:12PM -0500, Joe Abley wrote a message of 20 lines which said: > Is this not also codified in the EPP specification? RFC 4932, section 2.5 When a host object is provisioned for use as a DNS name server, IP addresses SHOULD be required only as needed to generate DNS glue records. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From LeahjohnRainey@thinkquest.org Tue Nov 13 15:10:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Is25h-0000HV-CK for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:10:33 -0500 Received: from p5490cfde.dip.t-dialin.net ([84.144.207.222] helo=scaleo.domainnotset.invalid) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Is25f-00061v-FL for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:10:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host72605175.thinkquest.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id TgTvDxsb20.950595.4c0.gHv.0163952637541 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:09:04 -0100 Message-ID: <30fa401c82631$124342b0$4101a8c0@SCALEO> From: "Billie Tipton" To: Cc: , =20

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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    More
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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

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    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

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    When you are young and stressed = up…
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    ------=_NextPart_000_033C_01C82648.0F8D04E0-- From TerispaceHenley@economist.com Tue Nov 13 20:17:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Is6tB-0004QM-EN for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:17:57 -0500 Received: from [189.136.50.102] (helo=micompu.gateway.2wire.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Is6t8-0006CM-4u for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:17:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host90813080.economist.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id C07w4BiT85.738348.9NN.COV.2382030026966 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:17:44 +0600 Message-ID: <034701c8265c$376e95a0$4001a8c0@MICOMPU> From: "Lynette Cates" To: , =20

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    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
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    ------=_NextPart_000_0343_01C8265C.376E95A0-- From BenjaminsawyerRamirez@gasupreme.us Wed Nov 14 01:43:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsBy0-0003VA-NE for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:43:16 -0500 Received: from adsl-70-228-38-38.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net ([70.228.38.38] helo=dispatcher2.braztrans.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsBy0-00051H-9i for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:43:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host42874263.gasupreme.us (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 4sTQCqea42.087816.tSL.yCq.9610459770951 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:44:23 +0600 Message-ID: <5a9f401c82689$d5acdd30$1c01a8c0@dispatcher2> From: "Steve Ross" To: Subject: Hi Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:44:23 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_5A9F0_01C82689.D5ACDD30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_5A9F0_01C82689.D5ACDD30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_5A9F0_01C82689.D5ACDD30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_5A9F0_01C82689.D5ACDD30-- From WilsonmemoryYates@peoplespot.com Wed Nov 14 04:25:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsEVM-0007Zq-7y for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 04:25:52 -0500 Received: from [58.64.121.143] (helo=winkool7828337) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsEVG-0001jw-Qk for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 04:25:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host31495009.peoplespot.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id H783Z31a03.019080.C1P.Qwo.3763410886008 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:23:44 -0700 Message-ID: <6afe01c826a0$4c1cfc50$6701a8c0@winkool7828337> From: "Spencer Hammond" To: Cc: , =20

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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    ------=_NextPart_000_6AFA_01C826A0.4C1CFC50-- From LeonardodelicacyFischer@porscheclub.com Wed Nov 14 05:43:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsFiG-0000Sp-CS; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 05:43:16 -0500 Received: from cable-66-103-33-192.dyn.personainc.net ([66.103.33.192] helo=companydh74jt7) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsFiF-0003v0-U5; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 05:43:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host22565662.porscheclub.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id OaIVpeZk29.729724.XlM.WOM.6101872963425 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 07:11:15 +0500 Message-ID: <040b01c826b7$833f3f10$c0216742@companydh74jt7> From: "Benito Shaffer" To: , =20

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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    When you are young and stressed = up…
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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    ------=_NextPart_000_390C_01C826CF.40644CE0-- From NataliedemonstrateHinkle@metacritic.com Wed Nov 14 11:06:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsKkn-0004OK-Gu for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:06:13 -0500 Received: from c-67-165-33-76.hsd1.oh.comcast.net ([67.165.33.76] helo=harubin.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsKkn-0002jZ-9S for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:06:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host95625263.metacritic.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 2XN8pBM521.905397.Dxw.KJY.6557556916690 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:05:54 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Natalie Hendrickson" To: Subject: Your order approved Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:05:54 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_C1BC7_01C826D8.46F8EFD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_C1BC7_01C826D8.46F8EFD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_C1BC7_01C826D8.46F8EFD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
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    ------=_NextPart_000_2E664_01C82716.D8757800-- From MalcolmsforzandoMann@gasupreme.us Wed Nov 14 20:41:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsTjE-0004gj-Iu for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:41:12 -0500 Received: from [201.240.131.187] (helo=microsof00f839) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsTjD-0003oW-1z for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:41:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host85144641.gasupreme.us (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id nZYb234t17.676603.Q1f.BzN.0023268236630 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:40:03 +0500 Message-ID: <12fe501c82728$83064360$1901a8c0@microsof00f839> From: "Rudolph Moss" To: Subject: Confirmation link Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:40:03 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_12FE1_01C82728.83064360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_12FE1_01C82728.83064360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_12FE1_01C82728.83064360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

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    ------=_NextPart_000_12FE1_01C82728.83064360-- From PercyexasperaterCasey@lyricsfreak.com Wed Nov 14 21:43:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsUhl-0008Dn-4R for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:43:45 -0500 Received: from [190.68.18.56] (helo=personalc3e390) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsUhj-0005hE-9P for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:43:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host46001003.lyricsfreak.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id jX6zJnQo68.263161.5sr.Vny.7294876020100 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:43:22 +1200 Message-ID: <9b7901c82731$54137060$0601a8c0@personalc3e390> From: "Tommie Bowers" To: , =20

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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    When you are young and stressed = up…
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    ------=_NextPart_000_323CE_01C82772.E993C630-- From RebataxEpps@willieruff.com Thu Nov 15 06:33:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iscye-0000FU-22 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 06:33:44 -0500 Received: from 217.red-81-33-140.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([81.33.140.217] helo=maria) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iscyd-00072C-4z for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 06:33:43 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host13197115.willieruff.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id Ny8jQs0I08.448460.PuI.C5N.8531964639322 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:33:08 -0100 Message-ID: <203c801c8277b$5cd5b830$0401a8c0@maria> From: "Chris Feldman" To: Subject: Your health Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:33:08 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_203C4_01C8277B.5CD5B830" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_203C4_01C8277B.5CD5B830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_203C4_01C8277B.5CD5B830 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

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    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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    More
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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
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    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

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    ------=_NextPart_000_203C4_01C8277B.5CD5B830-- From MarisadaintyLockett@williepbennett.com Thu Nov 15 07:32:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Isdtw-0000bW-Qz for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 07:32:56 -0500 Received: from [200.113.26.184] (helo=rioclaro02) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Isdtw-0000m5-9D for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 07:32:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host08067606.williepbennett.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id bUSWwa1t80.714253.CbA.InT.4245220563540 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:32:24 +0400 Message-ID: <60fc01c82783$9f2dd840$0201a8c0@RIOCLARO02> From: "Charity Segura" To: , =20

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    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
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    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_60F8_01C82783.9F2DD840-- From JodiepalermoWoody@economist.com Thu Nov 15 07:37:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsdyB-0000vu-C6; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 07:37:19 -0500 Received: from [189.162.133.62] (helo=ortmont.gateway.2wire.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Isdy2-00010A-8M; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 07:37:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host00598801.economist.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id AF6FkiDB26.580738.R6k.Xgn.6289334982894 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 06:36:19 +0600 Message-ID: <21e001c82784$34b654f0$4001a8c0@ORTMONT> From: "Jimmie Cahill" To: , =20

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    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
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    ------=_NextPart_000_21DC_01C82784.34B654F0-- From TabathaparamedicShipley@linksys.com Thu Nov 15 08:31:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iseoh-0002ZL-Gl; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:31:35 -0500 Received: from [62.162.97.57] (helo=intel) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iseof-0003D1-Ou; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:31:35 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host63108304.linksys.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id B60XuJdy83.692263.rdT.3NQ.1486524326936 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:31:01 -0100 Message-ID: <9b9c01c82854$fab503b0$3961a23e@intel> From: "Serena Cornelius" To: Cc: , =20

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    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
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    ------=_NextPart_000_175A2_01C827CA.4187E040-- From Keck@anthonywhite.net Thu Nov 15 16:26:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsmEc-0004t5-Uz for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:26:50 -0500 Received: from abnr7.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.8.7.7] helo=abpe198.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsmEb-0000cM-Ul for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:26:50 -0500 Received: from 65a6ece219704de by anthonywhite.net with ASMTP id 2BB40DDE for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:27:06 +0100 Received: from 65a6ece219704de ([131.146.163.63]) by anthonywhite.net with ESMTP id 37658DA58E8C for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:27:06 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c827ce$39cad700$c62e0853@65a6ece219704de> From: "Darlene Keck" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: groupees Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:26:46 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c827ce$39cad700$c62e0853@65a6ece219704de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071114-0, 2007-11-14), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Are you really satisfied with your manhood size? Intharachai fawfwaf http://baldoro.com/ From RonnykoinoniaRollins@britneyspears.ac Thu Nov 15 17:01:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsmmG-0006Gd-Tz; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:01:36 -0500 Received: from 201.160.97.11.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx ([201.160.97.11] helo=anbu2.cpe.aca.cablemas.com.mx) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsmmD-0001nD-LX; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:01:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host09473807.britneyspears.ac (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id eoE6bt0s07.188523.7Ca.WeS.1389547219590 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:56:49 -0100 Message-ID: <227301c82797$d5de26b0$cd01a8c0@anbu2> From: "Hung Gamble" To: Cc: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_226F_01C82797.D5DE26B0-- From dawmont2@easymail.hu Thu Nov 15 17:53:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Isnaq-0004ph-SJ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:53:52 -0500 Received: from [58.141.190.226] (helo=easymail.hu) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Isnap-0003dt-Ul for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:53:52 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c82825$d3cae690$06e713ac@yourgeosdih8fw> From: "Ty Downey" To: "dnsop-archive" Subject: Who would not want to do that, right? Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:53:51 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.2869 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Dear Sir, I used to believe the stock market would make me rich. All I needed to do was pick the right stock and I'd be a millionaire. In March of 2000, I decided that stock was PALM, which I bought the morning it went public. Within days my $1,000 investment was worth $600, and my fantasies of instant wealth were swept out the door. My mistake was a desire to get rich quickly myself - greed clouded my vision. I was uneducated. I didn't understand how investing worked. In time, I learned a better way. The fact is that you have to be a professional and have unique prediction mechanisms which most traders don't have, that's why I would recommend an investment company with great performance and honest and reliable reputation with outstanding interest rates and Customer Service. I will show you the way to make the most out of your investment, with this spectacular investment offer you'll be able to generate up to 65% monthly. There are several thousand mutual funds available in the United States alone. There are mutual funds for those interested in socially-responsible investments. There are mutual funds for those who like tech stocks. There are mutual funds based around Biblical principles. There are mutual funds designed to mirror the performance of a stock index. There are mutual funds that attempt to beat the markets in an aggressive fashion. There are junk bond mutual funds. There are real estate mutual funds. There are foreign funds. There are mutual funds that target specific retirement dates. You name it, and there's probably a mutual fund for it. However this one is the best performing fund accepting deposits worldwide online with over 1,000 branches worldwide. Contact me at the following e-mail: Joanna6236@gmail.com in order to find out more and I'll be able to provide you with more relevant information on how to get started. Sincerely, Adele From WiltoneitherRutledge@lyricsfreak.com Thu Nov 15 17:59:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsngH-0007CZ-FZ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:59:29 -0500 Received: from 106-59.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch ([62.203.59.106] helo=pascal) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsngH-0003zC-24; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:59:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host39202961.lyricsfreak.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id H5pdXuN587.478586.EVK.JWd.3640751344994 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 23:58:51 -0100 Message-ID: <19be001c827db$2398b2b0$2101a8c0@pascal> From: "Fritz Wynn" To: Cc: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_19BDC_01C827DB.2398B2B0-- From HelenfrontElder@williecrawford.com Thu Nov 15 18:56:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsoZ2-00078p-E2 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:56:05 -0500 Received: from imax-3f-host-194-165-85-200.ibw.com.ni ([200.85.165.194] helo=fujitsu1bbj3qb) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsoZ1-0007uL-Qy for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:56:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host25746696.williecrawford.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id PVNIGuqx42.547900.E6y.SHs.1671209491527 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:55:38 +0600 Message-ID: <4d74501c827e3$1208b880$6401a8c0@fujitsu1bbj3qb> From: "Karen Shea" To: Subject: Your family Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:55:38 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_4D741_01C827E3.1208B880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_4D741_01C827E3.1208B880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_4D741_01C827E3.1208B880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_4D741_01C827E3.1208B880-- From AnnacraftWang@libraryspot.com Thu Nov 15 19:00:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsodD-00072p-0Q; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:00:23 -0500 Received: from bzq-84-109-6-48.red.bezeqint.net ([84.109.6.48] helo=home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsodB-0008OK-J6; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:00:22 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host95763735.libraryspot.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iQfnw47f12.851423.ICG.YUI.3705374166194 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 01:59:53 -0200 Message-ID: <13c8e01c827e3$ab235ca0$30066d54@home> From: "Anna Newell" To: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_13C8A_01C827E3.AB235CA0-- From JenniescotlandTeague@wikipedia.org Thu Nov 15 21:02:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsqXK-0002Ao-0U; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:02:26 -0500 Received: from [203.209.25.67] (helo=homed6d6b4fb68) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsqXI-0005nx-Lk; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:02:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host96189009.wikipedia.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id ugUJxD1W02.271556.6NJ.HxD.2338715010315 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:01:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1038b01c827f4$b5173680$320fa8c0@homed6d6b4fb68> From: "Carole Correa" To: Cc: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_10387_01C827F4.B5173680-- From DeelithographWeir@gasupreme.us Fri Nov 16 00:28:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Istl5-0006Mh-Rs for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:28:51 -0500 Received: from 62.42.144.44.dyn.user.ono.com ([62.42.144.44] helo=casa4d7b0ae5c1) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Istl5-0004xm-Dj for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:28:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host56361763.gasupreme.us (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id ACFgZW7097.284091.zZm.j8N.2690481098445 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 06:28:41 -0100 Message-ID: <9760d01c82811$983f4ee0$2c902a3e@casa4d7b0ae5c1> From: "Lara Lanier" To: Cc: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_97609_01C82811.983F4EE0-- From RoseannpapBenavides@slashdot.org Fri Nov 16 02:01:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsvD8-0007rY-3z for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 02:01:54 -0500 Received: from [202.46.125.146] (helo=pc103) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IsvD7-0001Ls-H9 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 02:01:54 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host30348180.slashdot.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id xUsqJ5cI05.751641.uJ8.3DW.9673341235564 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:01:25 -0800 Message-ID: <1888401c8281e$8e972860$6856a8c0@PC103> From: "Georgette Lujan" To: Cc: , =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
    When you are aged and never give up…
    Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

    ------=_NextPart_000_18880_01C8281E.8E972860-- From Virginia-Deyogolos@tradersvic.com Fri Nov 16 03:07:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IswEA-000493-3c for dnsop-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:07:02 -0500 Received: from p54bf1c74.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([84.191.28.116] helo=p54BF0E6A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IswE9-00054V-8H for dnsop-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:07:02 -0500 Received: from Iron by tradersvic.com with ASMTP id C9E0F0B8 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:06:16 +0100 Received: from Iron ([142.145.198.191]) by tradersvic.com with ESMTP id 9EA2DC42A9FC for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:06:16 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c82827$88a995b0$6a0ebf54@Iron> From: "Virginia Deyogolos" To: Subject: rowzuerk Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:06:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8282F.EA6DFDB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8282F.EA6DFDB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable oh yes, intercourse is alot better now im BIGGER in size Cheryll Coleman http://baztrab.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8282F.EA6DFDB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    oh yes, intercourse is alot better now im = BIGGER in size
    Cheryll Coleman
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    <= /HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8282F.EA6DFDB0-- From KeithgerundialStewart@peoplespot.com Fri Nov 16 03:32:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IswcX-00066u-Nz for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:32:13 -0500 Received: from cpe-85-10-41-186.static.amis.net ([85.10.41.186] helo=prenosnik) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IswcW-0006YL-OX for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:32:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host81512313.peoplespot.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id aJvwKtJG96.123872.ZYV.zQG.3962425026683 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:31:45 -0100 Message-ID: <3451901c8282b$29bff590$647ba8c0@PRENOSNIK> From: "Jonathan Cook" To: Subject: Approval process Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:31:45 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_34515_01C8282B.29BFF590" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_34515_01C8282B.29BFF590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_34515_01C8282B.29BFF590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

    Learn
    More
    Now
    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
    30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66
    60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15
    90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06
    180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61

    When you are young and stressed = up…
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    ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C82893.92E4F080-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 16 20:01:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ItC31-00038X-VA; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:00:35 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ItC30-00038D-9Z; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:00:34 -0500 Received: from ns4.neustar.com ([156.154.24.139]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ItC2z-00018W-RJ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:00:34 -0500 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9444A2AC84; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:00:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1ItC2T-0006bK-V8; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:00:01 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:00:01 -0500 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1b0e72ff1bbd457ceef31828f216a86 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-ops-01.txt X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : AS112 Nameserver Operations Author(s) : J. Abley, W. Maton Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-ops-01.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2007-11-16 Many sites connected to the Internet make use of IPv4 addresses which are not globally unique. Examples are the addresses designated in RFC1918 for private use within individual sites. Devices in such environments may occasionally originate reverse DNS queries corresponding to those private-use addresses. Since the addresses concerned have only local significance, it is good practice for site administrators to ensure that they are answered locally. However, it is not uncommon for such queries to follow the normal delegation path in the public DNS instead of being answered within the site. It is not possible for public DNS servers to give useful answers to such queries. In addition, due to the wide deployment of private-use addresses and the continuing growth of the Internet, the volume of such queries is large and growing. The AS112 project aims to provide a distributed sink for such queries in order to reduce the load on the root and IN-ADDR.ARPA authority servers. This document describes the steps required to install a new AS112 node, and offers advice relating to such a node's operation. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-ops-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-ops-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-ops-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-11-16195548.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-ops-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-ops-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-11-16195548.I-D\@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --NextPart-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 16 20:01:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ItC31-00038X-VA; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:00:35 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ItC30-00038D-9Z; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:00:34 -0500 Received: from ns4.neustar.com ([156.154.24.139]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ItC2z-00018W-RJ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:00:34 -0500 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9444A2AC84; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:00:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1ItC2T-0006bK-V8; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:00:01 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:00:01 -0500 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1b0e72ff1bbd457ceef31828f216a86 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-ops-01.txt X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : AS112 Nameserver Operations Author(s) : J. Abley, W. Maton Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-ops-01.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2007-11-16 Many sites connected to the Internet make use of IPv4 addresses which are not globally unique. Examples are the addresses designated in RFC1918 for private use within individual sites. Devices in such environments may occasionally originate reverse DNS queries corresponding to those private-use addresses. Since the addresses concerned have only local significance, it is good practice for site administrators to ensure that they are answered locally. However, it is not uncommon for such queries to follow the normal delegation path in the public DNS instead of being answered within the site. It is not possible for public DNS servers to give useful answers to such queries. In addition, due to the wide deployment of private-use addresses and the continuing growth of the Internet, the volume of such queries is large and growing. The AS112 project aims to provide a distributed sink for such queries in order to reduce the load on the root and IN-ADDR.ARPA authority servers. This document describes the steps required to install a new AS112 node, and offers advice relating to such a node's operation. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-ops-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. 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This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : I'm Being Attacked by PRISONER.IANA.ORG! Author(s) : J. Abley, W. Maton Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2007-11-18 Many sites connected to the Internet make use of IPv4 addresses which are not globally unique. Examples are the addresses designated in RFC1918 for private use within individual sites. Hosts should never normally send reverse DNS queries for those addresses on the public Internet. However, such queries are frequently observed. Authority servers are deployed to provide authoritative answers to such queries as part of a loosely- coordinated effort known as the AS112 project. Since queries sent to AS112 servers are usually not intentional, the replies received back from those servers are typically unexpected. Unexpected inbound traffic can trigger alarms on intrusion detection systems and firewalls, and operators of such systems often mistakenly believe that they are being attacked. This document provides background information and technical advice to those firewall operators. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-11-18012838.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-11-18012838.I-D\@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --NextPart-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sun Nov 18 01:30:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ItdfQ-0000Ao-6V; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:30:04 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ItdfP-0000AJ-E1; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:30:03 -0500 Received: from ns1.neustar.com ([2001:503:c779:1a::9c9a:108a]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ItdfO-0002TV-B8; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:30:03 -0500 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C00B26E78; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 06:30:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1ItdfO-0006v1-4g; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:30:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:30:02 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : I'm Being Attacked by PRISONER.IANA.ORG! Author(s) : J. Abley, W. Maton Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2007-11-18 Many sites connected to the Internet make use of IPv4 addresses which are not globally unique. Examples are the addresses designated in RFC1918 for private use within individual sites. Hosts should never normally send reverse DNS queries for those addresses on the public Internet. However, such queries are frequently observed. Authority servers are deployed to provide authoritative answers to such queries as part of a loosely- coordinated effort known as the AS112 project. Since queries sent to AS112 servers are usually not intentional, the replies received back from those servers are typically unexpected. Unexpected inbound traffic can trigger alarms on intrusion detection systems and firewalls, and operators of such systems often mistakenly believe that they are being attacked. This document provides background information and technical advice to those firewall operators. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-11-18012838.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-11-18012838.I-D\@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --NextPart-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sun Nov 18 01:58:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ite6p-0003H9-Fs; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:58:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ite6o-0003G9-03 for dnsop@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:58:22 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ite6k-0003Nn-HK for dnsop@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:58:21 -0500 Received: from yxu1a16.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.16]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ite6j-000AVw-59 for dnsop@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 06:58:17 +0000 Message-Id: From: Joe Abley To: IETF DNSOP WG In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:58:16 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On 18-Nov-2007, at 01:30, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > Title : I'm Being Attacked by PRISONER.IANA.ORG! > Author(s) : J. Abley, W. Maton > Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help- > help-01.txt > Pages : 17 > Date : 2007-11-18 Appendix A. Change History This section to be removed prior to publication. [...] 01 Version number bump at request of wg chair. [...] _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Sun Nov 18 01:58:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ite6p-0003H9-Fs; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:58:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ite6o-0003G9-03 for dnsop@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:58:22 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ite6k-0003Nn-HK for dnsop@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:58:21 -0500 Received: from yxu1a16.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.16]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ite6j-000AVw-59 for dnsop@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 06:58:17 +0000 Message-Id: From: Joe Abley To: IETF DNSOP WG In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help-help-01.txt Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:58:16 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On 18-Nov-2007, at 01:30, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > Title : I'm Being Attacked by PRISONER.IANA.ORG! > Author(s) : J. Abley, W. Maton > Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-under-attack-help- > help-01.txt > Pages : 17 > Date : 2007-11-18 Appendix A. Change History This section to be removed prior to publication. [...] 01 Version number bump at request of wg chair. 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This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : Locally-served DNS Zones Author(s) : M. Andrews Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-03.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2007-11-18 Experience has shown that there are a number of DNS zones all iterative resolvers and recursive nameservers should, unless configured otherwise, automatically serve. RFC 4193 specifies that this should occur for D.F.IP6.ARPA. This document extends the practice to cover the IN-ADDR.ARPA zones for RFC 1918 address space and other well known zones with similar characteristics. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-default-local-zones-03.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. 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    = ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C82A48.61D610D0-- From atsprotax.com@knowcreditcards.com Mon Nov 19 04:37:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iu34D-0006Ef-Q2 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:37:21 -0500 Received: from c-76-97-117-164.hsd1.ga.comcast.net ([76.97.117.164] helo=vgdenrkt) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iu34C-0002vO-Ns for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:37:21 -0500 Message-ID: <000301c82a8f$c393ea80$0100007f@kprcud> From: "Lorenzo Jackson" To: Subject: Corel Draw Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:36:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01C82A8F.C393EA80" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2905 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4d9ae72af46718088458d214998cc683 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C82A8F.C393EA80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C82A8F.C393EA80" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C82A8F.C393EA80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attached image. http://snt.yflheree.com/ ----- Do you mean she took him to he Their voices had dropped to wh Knowing Brodick as I do, Id sa And he told you this? Gillian ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C82A8F.C393EA80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi
    He was surprised shed used his Im not interested in the paltr No, Quinlan answered. As I sai
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    Youre very handsome when you s But you dislike handsome men, I remember. I was trying to co Why? She didnt answer him. Wha
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4i4LbTbFDQ4BMS/LSUwwWaLD7VgBtVpUborpftLhh1LerYLekJIq5UKYYLNFj7lzkdSxpYcUVpMv 4gfcktcW2gC17appVnxhrgEVoKZl2tv5176my7dntFz/AITxJPtmvLN2oKF4N7hhjqyS+290wJEN XIOVY+3avPaXPEvdXliqpLYAqQAkEmVQ93ozxhtBNPWC2ZCnd/2XdkPWWnnWhcN1RI+6n6EoHWLS 5gcrqVq3EyTywHuV9sHBrqS1GleFDVvSyxYuAkq+3NccZpgu6gh33ALTQwgsc2rDSzwA1gNy40Uj 3AmO4By4TMXHXR1goaGPKSICZSonOS8cNY86ZYFGDv3i6Mguu9W1HTt/G3YtdBnJDej6zsKsF12Y BJgRUdkgnAKYUYHbUvAIzGcabQ5MKgsNVo0ebLDegNaAAMAILA0BpyIE4opDRSZogSBW0OT3gsIZ g5ILWgIVWWdf34ooa0BpxAEoIa1oBxRogsa0BpyASgVMaUCBWjCFc0E5yNtb+de+ps1DJspCbIWS 4RLIU2xcAATiUxhWNa05wAIFLQEwQQC4AkYKMN6Ky0F2dJwXABTiUxjQaGr7oSA57QSNwbst6fHC vaHHOQDAqY0oECtGEVOY0k5S0QCWtUSGiJJhCkAkiklMmaFY0NOEgm1HTt/G3YtdBnJDej6zs051 gCE2SS5CUXegAYAfmbfzr31Ng70OXLKFGB2FzbQElEVDuwoKrj+YHTt/G3YtdBnJAuWyJBJxg08M YD/1DLgpVpzwpHpjJsYiMnF/P5q38699TYUQZJCGYjRwhBtZfmB07fxt2LXQZyf4O38699T/AAY6 dr427DA1rCA1qGtwWXQjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q 6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM 8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUj mM8Q6kcxniHUi2RSX9bcKElF/sULTk3skcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxni HUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcx niHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6k cxniHUjmM8Q6kcxniHUjmM8Q6kAPaxrarcw8n2hkoGOGx//Z ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C82A8F.C393EA80-- From Tesjuan_Lempert@imagery.it Mon Nov 19 08:33:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iu6ki-00080D-TK for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:33:28 -0500 Received: from spc1-leed12-0-0-cust719.seac.broadband.ntl.com ([80.2.78.208]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iu6ki-0007Ou-ER for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:33:28 -0500 Received: by 10.171.227.223 with SMTP id KoAtmvRLqZSzY; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:33:31 -0000 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.102.163 with SMTP id NRGcRFNRhxBtBm.3289516312040; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:33:29 -0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000901c82ab0$c3ca87e0$d04e0250@user> From: "Tesjuan Lempert" To: dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: ienbooms Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:33:26 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c82ab0$c3ca87e0$d04e0250@user> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db A good way to make good life even better Tin Gott http://oilmeant.com/ From Godingfswp@ELVISPITER.RU Mon Nov 19 13:27:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuBLR-0007Ve-Sz for dnsop-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:27:42 -0500 Received: from host115-181-static.41-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it ([88.41.181.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuBLQ-0008GI-QG for dnsop-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:27:41 -0500 Received: by 10.144.0.104 with SMTP id OgzhZZwjttmoU; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:22:42 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.177.45 with SMTP id KIyBKFHBYHiRRA.1855745723539; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:22:40 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <000601c82ad9$295f9960$73b52958@rosa> From: "necati Goding" To: dnsop-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: senniti Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:22:37 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c82ad9$295f9960$73b52958@rosa> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Be a man from her dreams gandulf Enhardt http://www.thanreason.com/ From stanly@pervalidus.net Mon Nov 19 15:54:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuDdm-0001D5-3V for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:54:46 -0500 Received: from pool-71-251-194-8.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net ([71.251.194.8]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuDdl-0002Jh-Pm for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:54:46 -0500 Received: from [71.251.194.8] by dns2.name-services.com; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:54:45 +0000 Message-ID: <000501c82aee$0383016e$b383e888@eecky> From: "jaimie cathi" To: Subject: Home-based job opportunity Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:07:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c We are at search and selection of both experienced, highly qualified employees, and young, creative and perspective specialists in marketing. 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If you received this message in error, please send a blank email to: SandySparksEP@gmail.com From corsoduu@travelagentsoftware.com Mon Nov 19 17:55:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuFWm-00077P-Gq for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:55:40 -0500 Received: from ccl143.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.30.135.143]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuFWm-0006Kk-0C for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:55:40 -0500 Received: from chujek ([160.197.16.107] helo=chujek) by ccl143.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1AOtpb-000VDJ-Bh for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:56:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c82aff$5487eb80$8f871e53@chujek> From: "Lambrini corso" To: Subject: aajapus Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:55:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C82B07.B64C5380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071119-1, 2007-11-19), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C82B07.B64C5380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excellent fling Joely kuchenmeister http://www.teacharea.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C82B07.B64C5380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Excellent = fling
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    http://www.teacharea.com/
    ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C82B07.B64C5380-- From dnsopmh@wbs.com Mon Nov 19 20:45:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuIB1-00037Y-LN for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:45:23 -0500 Received: from [201.8.51.22] (helo=pessoal) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuIB0-0001kH-44 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:45:23 -0500 Received: from Arline Dean (10.15.17.13) by pessoal (PowerMTA(TM) v3.2r4) id hfp92o83d39j20 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:45:20 -0300 Message-Id: <20071119084520.10206.qmail@pessoal> To: Subject: November 76% OFF From: VIAGRA Official Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8
    From Shem@aquamate.ru Tue Nov 20 04:01:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuOzS-0003tQ-Fq for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 04:01:54 -0500 Received: from net203-135-118.mclink.it ([213.203.135.118]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuOzP-0003DH-Ui for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 04:01:52 -0500 Received: by 10.78.231.151 with SMTP id AOIMtqalmpkDQ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:01:24 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.149.76 with SMTP id VmKDGeDTrROLhc.5355581172773; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:01:22 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <000201c82b53$ea67cbd0$7687cbd5@Pccad2> From: "Shem Mandalia" To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org Subject: weiflers Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:01:19 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c82b53$ea67cbd0$7687cbd5@Pccad2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Impotenz cure pillz right to your door Fynn Richman http://www.radiohundred.com/ From NELY@aquamate.ru Tue Nov 20 04:01:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuOzU-0004Fp-Id for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 04:01:56 -0500 Received: from net203-135-118.mclink.it ([213.203.135.118]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuOzU-0003DX-0w for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 04:01:56 -0500 Received: from Pc-cad2 by aquamate.ru with ASMTP id A87CAB24 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:01:55 +0100 Received: from Pc-cad2 ([177.151.22.127]) by aquamate.ru with ESMTP id FFC2756DBEBE for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:01:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c82b53$ef8bb6d0$7687cbd5@Pccad2> From: "NELY mcgarvey" To: Subject: wastigst Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:01:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C82B5C.51501ED0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C82B5C.51501ED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excellent fling Heba neikov http://www.objectsave.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C82B5C.51501ED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : DNS Referral Response Size Issues Author(s) : P. Vixie, . Kato Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2007-11-20 With a mandated default minimum maximum UDP message size of 512 octets, the DNS protocol presents some special problems for zones wishing to expose a moderate or high number of authority servers (NS RRs). This document explains the operational issues caused by, or related to this response size limit, and suggests ways to optimize the use of this limited space. Guidance is offered to DNS server implementors and to DNS zone operators. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-11-20150538.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-11-20150538.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --NextPart-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 20 16:16:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuaQz-0000ic-68; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:15:05 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuaQx-0000Qk-6u; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:15:03 -0500 Received: from ns1.neustar.com ([2001:503:c779:1a::9c9a:108a]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IuaQw-0002Wu-Hm; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:15:03 -0500 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F68A26E71; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 21:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IuaQw-0000ax-Al; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:15:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:15:02 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Domain Name System Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : DNS Referral Response Size Issues Author(s) : P. Vixie, . Kato Filename : draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2007-11-20 With a mandated default minimum maximum UDP message size of 512 octets, the DNS protocol presents some special problems for zones wishing to expose a moderate or high number of authority servers (NS RRs). This document explains the operational issues caused by, or related to this response size limit, and suggests ways to optimize the use of this limited space. Guidance is offered to DNS server implementors and to DNS zone operators. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-11-20150538.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsop-respsize-08.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-11-20150538.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --NextPart-- From MyraslumberMcneill@peopleenespanol.com Tue Nov 20 18:42:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iuck5-0004E2-J8 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 18:42:57 -0500 Received: from [189.138.196.172] (helo=perrini.gateway.2wire.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iuck4-0002DN-M1 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 18:42:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host29034655.peopleenespanol.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id m4fXT7wP14.632723.G9x.yd6.7717113508448 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:42:16 +0600 Message-ID: <02a601c82bcf$125a1fa0$4201a8c0@perrini> From: "Jacquelyn Coates" To: , =20

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    Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

    Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    ------=_NextPart_000_15476E_01C82D48.40941180-- From EileentitillateDenton@britneyspears.ac Thu Nov 22 19:13:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IvMB9-0002bN-S8 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2007 19:13:55 -0500 Received: from [89.241.215.62] (helo=adi) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IvMB9-0004GM-D3 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2007 19:13:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host19254452.britneyspears.ac (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id IEG4diIf44.496060.6L9.532.6964514385841 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 00:13:38 +0000 Message-ID: <71c601c82d65$bd58a830$0300a8c0@adi> From: "Natalie Quinones" To: Cc: , =20

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    10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19
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    http://westrfdonda.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C82D9A.062DD426-- From scrubsbyjanice.com@escrowbanker.com Fri Nov 23 02:15:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IvSlL-0000Qd-Dg for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 02:15:43 -0500 Received: from [85.105.110.141] (helo=isldtn) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IvSlJ-0006FX-Ri for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 02:15:43 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c82da0$7f129280$0100007f@vkury> From: "Logan Henderson" To: Subject: Beware of fake pills Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:15:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005D_01C82DA0.7F129280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2905 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 65bc4909d78e8b10349def623cf7a1d1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C82DA0.7F129280 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C82DA0.7F129280" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C82DA0.7F129280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attac or here: http://www.ascouve.com/ ----- They, too, had vanished. Alfor I know only what I have just h He didnt believe her. He reach ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C82DA0.7F129280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

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pmessN5QkLEOuoC8uU89cBYvj4hQjV2O71FDI+TNzvwa1W01KQcEYAPS+sKOd/x7NddO9lHN+7l3 MurEEkZCa7h81054QJMt2ZAzBYycNTDceyxJ2fFZpSMaWDU37e5NeQoW14HimmCImgkdepMxmGX/ ABcwOCqCNNn8JjIu8S4/gAckDUDfemFvY1HWExrvXKTEbPrZOAx1iiYf+U//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C82DA0.7F129280-- From xeheuropean@wyldfyre.com Fri Nov 23 04:40:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IvV1L-0007Uh-4A for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 04:40:23 -0500 Received: from fp4.internetdsl.tpnet.pl ([80.53.41.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IvV1I-0002Ll-ER for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 04:40:21 -0500 Received: (qmail 43901 invoked from network); Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:40:44 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO domsxb4i6qkkud) (xeheuropean@wyldfyre.com@65.20.56.176) by 4293550wyldfyre.com with SMTP; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:40:44 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c82dbd$4cfee060$01b3934c@domsxb4i6qkkud> From: Foster 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    ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8302A.826EAC70-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 11:49:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwh8c-0002th-4F; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:48:50 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwh8a-0002tJ-AZ for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:48:48 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwh8Z-0005fG-KV for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:48:48 -0500 Received: from [199.212.90.16] (helo=yxu1a16.hopcount.ca) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iwh8Q-000AEE-Dy for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:48:46 +0000 Message-Id: From: Joe Abley To: IETF DNSOP WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:48:38 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Subject: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, Afilias runs AS112 servers at its various anycast nodes, as well as authoritative servers for the various TLDs that Afilias hosts. We just turned up a new node last week, which brought the following issue back to prominence; I thought I'd send a note about it before I forgot about it again. Most if not all transit providers these days install prefix filters to make sure that their BGP-speaking customers only send them the routes that they should. (Many ASes install similar filters towards peers, but the extent to which that is commonplace varies from region to region.) The AS112 project operates under the service prefix 192.175.48.0/24, which is originated by AS112. Announcing that prefix to a transit provider is an identical situation from the point of view of transit provider policies as announcing routes for a new downstream customer; in this case the customer is (from whois) "Root Server Technical Operations Assn". Transit providers commonly request a Letter Of Authorisation (LOA) from ISPs who want to propagate their customers' routes in this fashion. The LOA would come from the customer, and would confirm that the ISP is authorised to propagate or announce the routes on their behalf. The trouble with the AS112 project is that there's no actual connected customer, and explaining that AS112 is special to transit providers who haven't already heard of the concept can be a draining and frequently unfulfilling exercise. I seem to think there's no actual legal entity that carries the name "Root Server Technical Operations Assn", and similarly no listed officers, letterhead, etc which makes any LOA likely to be an exercise in photoshoppery and subterfuge. So, the thought occurred to me (warning, text on-topic for DNSOP approaching) that it'd be nice to be able to publish an LOA in the form of an RFC so that, in effect, the IETF provides authorisation for the prefix in question to be propagated. Such a document could be quite brief, but I seem to think its existence would make it far easier for providers to accept 192.175.48.0/24 from ISPs. The benefit would be to ISPs (or other ASes) who decide to start providing public AS112 service, and to existing ISPs providing the service who change transit providers or peer with people that filter. I don't have strong feelings about whether the "LOA in an RFC" idea is plausible, or even good, but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. If there was consensus that such a document was worthwhile, I'd happy to do the legwork (and it'd be sufficiently brief in content and purpose that I could imagine it being thrown up to the IESG fairly swiftly). Comments and opinions welcome :-) Joe _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 11:49:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwh8c-0002th-4F; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:48:50 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwh8a-0002tJ-AZ for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:48:48 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwh8Z-0005fG-KV for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:48:48 -0500 Received: from [199.212.90.16] (helo=yxu1a16.hopcount.ca) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iwh8Q-000AEE-Dy for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:48:46 +0000 Message-Id: From: Joe Abley To: IETF DNSOP WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:48:38 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Subject: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, Afilias runs AS112 servers at its various anycast nodes, as well as authoritative servers for the various TLDs that Afilias hosts. We just turned up a new node last week, which brought the following issue back to prominence; I thought I'd send a note about it before I forgot about it again. Most if not all transit providers these days install prefix filters to make sure that their BGP-speaking customers only send them the routes that they should. (Many ASes install similar filters towards peers, but the extent to which that is commonplace varies from region to region.) The AS112 project operates under the service prefix 192.175.48.0/24, which is originated by AS112. Announcing that prefix to a transit provider is an identical situation from the point of view of transit provider policies as announcing routes for a new downstream customer; in this case the customer is (from whois) "Root Server Technical Operations Assn". Transit providers commonly request a Letter Of Authorisation (LOA) from ISPs who want to propagate their customers' routes in this fashion. The LOA would come from the customer, and would confirm that the ISP is authorised to propagate or announce the routes on their behalf. The trouble with the AS112 project is that there's no actual connected customer, and explaining that AS112 is special to transit providers who haven't already heard of the concept can be a draining and frequently unfulfilling exercise. I seem to think there's no actual legal entity that carries the name "Root Server Technical Operations Assn", and similarly no listed officers, letterhead, etc which makes any LOA likely to be an exercise in photoshoppery and subterfuge. So, the thought occurred to me (warning, text on-topic for DNSOP approaching) that it'd be nice to be able to publish an LOA in the form of an RFC so that, in effect, the IETF provides authorisation for the prefix in question to be propagated. Such a document could be quite brief, but I seem to think its existence would make it far easier for providers to accept 192.175.48.0/24 from ISPs. The benefit would be to ISPs (or other ASes) who decide to start providing public AS112 service, and to existing ISPs providing the service who change transit providers or peer with people that filter. I don't have strong feelings about whether the "LOA in an RFC" idea is plausible, or even good, but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. If there was consensus that such a document was worthwhile, I'd happy to do the legwork (and it'd be sufficiently brief in content and purpose that I could imagine it being thrown up to the IESG fairly swiftly). Comments and opinions welcome :-) Joe _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 13:26:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwiet-000426-8g; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:26:15 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwies-000421-6g for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:26:14 -0500 Received: from smtp-out.google.com ([216.239.45.13]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwiep-0007jM-T2 for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:26:14 -0500 Received: from zps76.corp.google.com (zps76.corp.google.com [172.25.146.76]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id lAQIQ4lk031842; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:26:04 -0800 Received: from dot.corp.google.com (dot.corp.google.com [172.29.23.83]) (authenticated bits=0) by zps76.corp.google.com with ESMTP id lAQIQ1cl031132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:26:03 -0800 Message-Id: <9350FF47-F9F8-45C4-9B9F-1044CC8A26AE@kumari.net> From: Warren Kumari To: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v912) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:26:00 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.912) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Nov 26, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Joe Abley wrote: > > > I don't have strong feelings about whether the "LOA in an RFC" idea > is plausible, or even good, but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. > If there was consensus that such a document was worthwhile, I'd > happy to do the legwork (and it'd be sufficiently brief in content > and purpose that I could imagine it being thrown up to the IESG > fairly swiftly). I think it sounds like an excellent idea -- I think that you may still have some issues getting providers to accept it, but hopefully way fewer issues than you would otherwise... The other option would be to actually create a legal entity called "Root Server Technical Operations Assn" and have some way of automatically generating LOA's (maybe a web form that generates a PDF!), but this sounds like it may be a bad idea... W > > > Comments and opinions welcome :-) > > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > --- Schizophrenia beats being alone. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 13:26:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwiet-000426-8g; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:26:15 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwies-000421-6g for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:26:14 -0500 Received: from smtp-out.google.com ([216.239.45.13]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwiep-0007jM-T2 for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:26:14 -0500 Received: from zps76.corp.google.com (zps76.corp.google.com [172.25.146.76]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id lAQIQ4lk031842; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:26:04 -0800 Received: from dot.corp.google.com (dot.corp.google.com [172.29.23.83]) (authenticated bits=0) by zps76.corp.google.com with ESMTP id lAQIQ1cl031132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:26:03 -0800 Message-Id: <9350FF47-F9F8-45C4-9B9F-1044CC8A26AE@kumari.net> From: Warren Kumari To: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v912) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:26:00 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.912) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Nov 26, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Joe Abley wrote: > > > I don't have strong feelings about whether the "LOA in an RFC" idea > is plausible, or even good, but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. > If there was consensus that such a document was worthwhile, I'd > happy to do the legwork (and it'd be sufficiently brief in content > and purpose that I could imagine it being thrown up to the IESG > fairly swiftly). I think it sounds like an excellent idea -- I think that you may still have some issues getting providers to accept it, but hopefully way fewer issues than you would otherwise... The other option would be to actually create a legal entity called "Root Server Technical Operations Assn" and have some way of automatically generating LOA's (maybe a web form that generates a PDF!), but this sounds like it may be a bad idea... W > > > Comments and opinions welcome :-) > > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > --- Schizophrenia beats being alone. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 15:41:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwklD-0007Gl-Vo; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:40:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwklC-0007Gg-N0 for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:40:54 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwkl9-0002h3-2x for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:40:54 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lAQKdnsG016163; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:39:49 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lAQKddNJ016158; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:39:39 GMT Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:39:39 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Warren Kumari Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Message-ID: <20071126203939.GA16077@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <9350FF47-F9F8-45C4-9B9F-1044CC8A26AE@kumari.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9350FF47-F9F8-45C4-9B9F-1044CC8A26AE@kumari.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -3.7 (---) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 01:26:00PM -0500, Warren Kumari wrote: > > On Nov 26, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Joe Abley wrote: > > > > > >I don't have strong feelings about whether the "LOA in an RFC" idea > >is plausible, or even good, but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. > >If there was consensus that such a document was worthwhile, I'd > >happy to do the legwork (and it'd be sufficiently brief in content > >and purpose that I could imagine it being thrown up to the IESG > >fairly swiftly). > > I think it sounds like an excellent idea -- I think that you may still > have some issues getting providers to accept it, but hopefully way > fewer issues than you would otherwise... > > The other option would be to actually create a legal entity called > "Root Server Technical Operations Assn" and have some way of > automatically generating LOA's (maybe a web form that generates a > PDF!), but this sounds like it may be a bad idea... > > W > > > > >Comments and opinions welcome :-) > > > > > >Joe humph.... I think this is a surefire way to poison this prefix forever. if the "IETF" is the body holding the delegation, then they would be able to sign the ROA... otherwise, the body holding the prefix (paying the bills) will be signing the ROA... the system is not prepared to deal w/ anonymous roll/shell accounts. (see the RBN mess) so, i'm not persuaded that this si a smart or wise idea. its hardcoding another special use prefix in millions of places all over the net. that said, i;m sure it will be seen as a provident/prudent way forward and there will be herds of folks lining up in support. good luck :) --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 15:41:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwklD-0007Gl-Vo; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:40:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwklC-0007Gg-N0 for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:40:54 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwkl9-0002h3-2x for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:40:54 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lAQKdnsG016163; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:39:49 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lAQKddNJ016158; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:39:39 GMT Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:39:39 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Warren Kumari Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Message-ID: <20071126203939.GA16077@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <9350FF47-F9F8-45C4-9B9F-1044CC8A26AE@kumari.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9350FF47-F9F8-45C4-9B9F-1044CC8A26AE@kumari.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -3.7 (---) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 01:26:00PM -0500, Warren Kumari wrote: > > On Nov 26, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Joe Abley wrote: > > > > > >I don't have strong feelings about whether the "LOA in an RFC" idea > >is plausible, or even good, but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. > >If there was consensus that such a document was worthwhile, I'd > >happy to do the legwork (and it'd be sufficiently brief in content > >and purpose that I could imagine it being thrown up to the IESG > >fairly swiftly). > > I think it sounds like an excellent idea -- I think that you may still > have some issues getting providers to accept it, but hopefully way > fewer issues than you would otherwise... > > The other option would be to actually create a legal entity called > "Root Server Technical Operations Assn" and have some way of > automatically generating LOA's (maybe a web form that generates a > PDF!), but this sounds like it may be a bad idea... > > W > > > > >Comments and opinions welcome :-) > > > > > >Joe humph.... I think this is a surefire way to poison this prefix forever. if the "IETF" is the body holding the delegation, then they would be able to sign the ROA... otherwise, the body holding the prefix (paying the bills) will be signing the ROA... the system is not prepared to deal w/ anonymous roll/shell accounts. (see the RBN mess) so, i'm not persuaded that this si a smart or wise idea. its hardcoding another special use prefix in millions of places all over the net. that said, i;m sure it will be seen as a provident/prudent way forward and there will be herds of folks lining up in support. good luck :) --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 15:46:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwkqh-00053q-1f; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:46:35 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwkqf-00053l-SA for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:46:33 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwkqf-0004dN-EO for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:46:33 -0500 Received: from [199.212.90.16] (helo=yxu1a16.hopcount.ca) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iwkqd-000CTH-Vy; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:46:32 +0000 Message-Id: <0CF99DFE-1A3E-47CD-B106-91CDEB5A3E8B@ca.afilias.info> From: Joe Abley To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com In-Reply-To: <20071126203939.GA16077@vacation.karoshi.com.> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:46:31 -0500 References: <9350FF47-F9F8-45C4-9B9F-1044CC8A26AE@kumari.net> <20071126203939.GA16077@vacation.karoshi.com.> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On 26-Nov-2007, at 15:39, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > humph.... I think this is a surefire way to poison this prefix > forever. if the "IETF" is the body holding the delegation, then > they would be able to sign the ROA... otherwise, the body holding > the prefix (paying the bills) will be signing the ROA... the > system is not prepared to deal w/ anonymous roll/shell accounts. > (see the RBN mess) The problem I was tentatively suggesting a solution for was the one where transit providers rely on LOAs (which seems fairly common today, although I have done no survey). If/when transit providers start to accept ROAs instead of LOAs, the generation of ROAs sounds like a separate (although clearly not completely unrelated) problem. > so, i'm not persuaded that this si a smart or wise idea. its > hardcoding another special use prefix in millions of places all > over the net. In addition to the hard-coding of that prefix that the working group has already agreed should happen in draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-*? > that said, i;m sure it will be seen as a provident/prudent way > forward and there will be herds of folks lining up in support. > good luck :) :-) Joe _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 15:46:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwkqh-00053q-1f; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:46:35 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwkqf-00053l-SA for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:46:33 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwkqf-0004dN-EO for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:46:33 -0500 Received: from [199.212.90.16] (helo=yxu1a16.hopcount.ca) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iwkqd-000CTH-Vy; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:46:32 +0000 Message-Id: <0CF99DFE-1A3E-47CD-B106-91CDEB5A3E8B@ca.afilias.info> From: Joe Abley To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com In-Reply-To: <20071126203939.GA16077@vacation.karoshi.com.> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:46:31 -0500 References: <9350FF47-F9F8-45C4-9B9F-1044CC8A26AE@kumari.net> <20071126203939.GA16077@vacation.karoshi.com.> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On 26-Nov-2007, at 15:39, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > humph.... I think this is a surefire way to poison this prefix > forever. if the "IETF" is the body holding the delegation, then > they would be able to sign the ROA... otherwise, the body holding > the prefix (paying the bills) will be signing the ROA... the > system is not prepared to deal w/ anonymous roll/shell accounts. > (see the RBN mess) The problem I was tentatively suggesting a solution for was the one where transit providers rely on LOAs (which seems fairly common today, although I have done no survey). If/when transit providers start to accept ROAs instead of LOAs, the generation of ROAs sounds like a separate (although clearly not completely unrelated) problem. > so, i'm not persuaded that this si a smart or wise idea. its > hardcoding another special use prefix in millions of places all > over the net. In addition to the hard-coding of that prefix that the working group has already agreed should happen in draft-ietf-dnsop-as112-*? > that said, i;m sure it will be seen as a provident/prudent way > forward and there will be herds of folks lining up in support. > good luck :) :-) Joe _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 16:14:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwlHO-00037i-To; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:14:11 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwlHO-00037b-BK for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:14:10 -0500 Received: from mail.enyo.de ([212.9.189.167]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwlHK-0003XD-Hh for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:14:10 -0500 Received: from deneb.vpn.enyo.de ([212.9.189.177] helo=deneb.enyo.de) by mail.enyo.de with esmtp id 1IwlEC-0006NQ-7w; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:10:52 +0100 Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IwlEA-00034I-HL; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:10:50 +0100 From: Florian Weimer To: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? References: Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:10:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Joe Abley's message of "Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:48:38 -0500") Message-ID: <87sl2s1zmt.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org * Joe Abley: > The trouble with the AS112 project is that there's no actual connected > customer, and explaining that AS112 is special to transit providers > who haven't already heard of the concept can be a draining and > frequently unfulfilling exercise. I seem to think there's no actual > legal entity that carries the name "Root Server Technical Operations > Assn", and similarly no listed officers, letterhead, etc which makes > any LOA likely to be an exercise in photoshoppery and subterfuge. Even if there were a blanket LOA letter, the issue still remains if *everyone* who can technically annoucne a prefix in the global table is entitled to run a global AS112 instance if they feel the urge to do so. I suppose the answer is "no", and you're back to square one. (The same issue arises with 6to4 and the 192.88.99.0/24 prefix, BTW.) _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 16:14:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwlHO-00037i-To; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:14:11 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwlHO-00037b-BK for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:14:10 -0500 Received: from mail.enyo.de ([212.9.189.167]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwlHK-0003XD-Hh for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:14:10 -0500 Received: from deneb.vpn.enyo.de ([212.9.189.177] helo=deneb.enyo.de) by mail.enyo.de with esmtp id 1IwlEC-0006NQ-7w; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:10:52 +0100 Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IwlEA-00034I-HL; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:10:50 +0100 From: Florian Weimer To: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? References: Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:10:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Joe Abley's message of "Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:48:38 -0500") Message-ID: <87sl2s1zmt.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org * Joe Abley: > The trouble with the AS112 project is that there's no actual connected > customer, and explaining that AS112 is special to transit providers > who haven't already heard of the concept can be a draining and > frequently unfulfilling exercise. I seem to think there's no actual > legal entity that carries the name "Root Server Technical Operations > Assn", and similarly no listed officers, letterhead, etc which makes > any LOA likely to be an exercise in photoshoppery and subterfuge. Even if there were a blanket LOA letter, the issue still remains if *everyone* who can technically annoucne a prefix in the global table is entitled to run a global AS112 instance if they feel the urge to do so. I suppose the answer is "no", and you're back to square one. (The same issue arises with 6to4 and the 192.88.99.0/24 prefix, BTW.) _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 17:47:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwmjh-0005su-MK; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:47:29 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwmjh-0005sn-A8 for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:47:29 -0500 Received: from mint.apnic.net ([202.12.29.58]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwmjg-0004W5-PD for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:47:29 -0500 Received: from [192.94.63.70] (dhcp070.yarralumla.aarnet.edu.au [192.94.63.70]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mint.apnic.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CBCD5F2D; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:47:27 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <474B4D83.4060907@apnic.net> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:49:39 +1100 From: Geoff Huston User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Florian Weimer Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? References: <87sl2s1zmt.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> In-Reply-To: <87sl2s1zmt.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org I can't help thinking that resource certification might help here - but thats a "tomorrow" response rather than a "today" solution (see page 23 of http://www.potaroo.net/presentations/2006-10-12-certs.pdf) for this concept of a digitally signed LOA) Geoff Florian Weimer wrote: > * Joe Abley: > >> The trouble with the AS112 project is that there's no actual connected >> customer, and explaining that AS112 is special to transit providers >> who haven't already heard of the concept can be a draining and >> frequently unfulfilling exercise. I seem to think there's no actual >> legal entity that carries the name "Root Server Technical Operations >> Assn", and similarly no listed officers, letterhead, etc which makes >> any LOA likely to be an exercise in photoshoppery and subterfuge. > > Even if there were a blanket LOA letter, the issue still remains if > *everyone* who can technically annoucne a prefix in the global table is > entitled to run a global AS112 instance if they feel the urge to do so. > I suppose the answer is "no", and you're back to square one. > > (The same issue arises with 6to4 and the 192.88.99.0/24 prefix, BTW.) > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 17:47:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwmjh-0005su-MK; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:47:29 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwmjh-0005sn-A8 for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:47:29 -0500 Received: from mint.apnic.net ([202.12.29.58]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwmjg-0004W5-PD for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:47:29 -0500 Received: from [192.94.63.70] (dhcp070.yarralumla.aarnet.edu.au [192.94.63.70]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mint.apnic.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CBCD5F2D; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:47:27 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <474B4D83.4060907@apnic.net> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:49:39 +1100 From: Geoff Huston User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Florian Weimer Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? References: <87sl2s1zmt.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> In-Reply-To: <87sl2s1zmt.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org I can't help thinking that resource certification might help here - but thats a "tomorrow" response rather than a "today" solution (see page 23 of http://www.potaroo.net/presentations/2006-10-12-certs.pdf) for this concept of a digitally signed LOA) Geoff Florian Weimer wrote: > * Joe Abley: > >> The trouble with the AS112 project is that there's no actual connected >> customer, and explaining that AS112 is special to transit providers >> who haven't already heard of the concept can be a draining and >> frequently unfulfilling exercise. I seem to think there's no actual >> legal entity that carries the name "Root Server Technical Operations >> Assn", and similarly no listed officers, letterhead, etc which makes >> any LOA likely to be an exercise in photoshoppery and subterfuge. > > Even if there were a blanket LOA letter, the issue still remains if > *everyone* who can technically annoucne a prefix in the global table is > entitled to run a global AS112 instance if they feel the urge to do so. > I suppose the answer is "no", and you're back to square one. > > (The same issue arises with 6to4 and the 192.88.99.0/24 prefix, BTW.) > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From farr@poloralphlauren.com Mon Nov 26 21:07:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwpqy-0000EW-2c for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:07:12 -0500 Received: from e177162071.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.177.162.71]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwpqx-0000GU-E4 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:07:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c8309a$03d0d62d$2058d6bc@dnxbuu> From: "fletch sharra" To: Subject: If quality and prestige plays a key role in your choice Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:19:47 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 If quality and prestige plays a key role in your choice of men watches then our replica watches were made exactly for you! 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Visit our site http://www.affgeww.com From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 21:17:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwq0x-0000CK-LA; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:17:31 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwq0w-0000CD-PZ for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:17:30 -0500 Received: from smtp-out.google.com ([216.239.45.13]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwq0u-0006gj-8L for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:17:30 -0500 Received: from zps77.corp.google.com (zps77.corp.google.com [172.25.146.77]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id lAR2HHuA025270; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:17:17 -0800 Received: from smtp.corp.google.com (spacemonkey2.corp.google.com [192.168.120.114]) by zps77.corp.google.com with ESMTP id lAR2HGkV009730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:17:16 -0800 Received: from [192.168.0.10] (pool-71-191-240-145.washdc.east.verizon.net [71.191.240.145]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.corp.google.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAR2HAe0022079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:17:12 -0800 Message-Id: From: Warren Kumari To: Florian Weimer In-Reply-To: <87sl2s1zmt.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:17:08 -0500 References: <87sl2s1zmt.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Nov 26, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Joe Abley: > >> The trouble with the AS112 project is that there's no actual >> connected >> customer, and explaining that AS112 is special to transit providers >> who haven't already heard of the concept can be a draining and >> frequently unfulfilling exercise. I seem to think there's no actual >> legal entity that carries the name "Root Server Technical Operations >> Assn", and similarly no listed officers, letterhead, etc which makes >> any LOA likely to be an exercise in photoshoppery and subterfuge. > > Even if there were a blanket LOA letter, the issue still remains if > *everyone* who can technically annoucne a prefix in the global table > is > entitled to run a global AS112 instance if they feel the urge to do > so. > I suppose the answer is "no", and you're back to square one. Well, currently it seems that *everyone* who can technically announce a prefix in the global table *and convince their ISP to accept it* gets to run a global AS112 instance. What do people think about setting up a legal entity called RSTOA that would then perform some very simple checks before handing out a LOA? Those who have providers with clue would probably still manage to announce 192.175.48.0/24 without talking to anyone, those who need an LOA would have to contact RSTOA, show that they have configured thongs in a sane manner and would then get a pretty, signed LOA on "official" letterhead. Of course, getting it so that the legal entity was actually allowed to hand out LOAs would be another matter... W > > > (The same issue arises with 6to4 and the 192.88.99.0/24 prefix, BTW.) > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 26 21:17:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwq0x-0000CK-LA; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:17:31 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwq0w-0000CD-PZ for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:17:30 -0500 Received: from smtp-out.google.com ([216.239.45.13]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iwq0u-0006gj-8L for dnsop@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:17:30 -0500 Received: from zps77.corp.google.com (zps77.corp.google.com [172.25.146.77]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id lAR2HHuA025270; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:17:17 -0800 Received: from smtp.corp.google.com (spacemonkey2.corp.google.com [192.168.120.114]) by zps77.corp.google.com with ESMTP id lAR2HGkV009730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:17:16 -0800 Received: from [192.168.0.10] (pool-71-191-240-145.washdc.east.verizon.net [71.191.240.145]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.corp.google.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAR2HAe0022079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:17:12 -0800 Message-Id: From: Warren Kumari To: Florian Weimer In-Reply-To: <87sl2s1zmt.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:17:08 -0500 References: <87sl2s1zmt.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Nov 26, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Joe Abley: > >> The trouble with the AS112 project is that there's no actual >> connected >> customer, and explaining that AS112 is special to transit providers >> who haven't already heard of the concept can be a draining and >> frequently unfulfilling exercise. I seem to think there's no actual >> legal entity that carries the name "Root Server Technical Operations >> Assn", and similarly no listed officers, letterhead, etc which makes >> any LOA likely to be an exercise in photoshoppery and subterfuge. > > Even if there were a blanket LOA letter, the issue still remains if > *everyone* who can technically annoucne a prefix in the global table > is > entitled to run a global AS112 instance if they feel the urge to do > so. > I suppose the answer is "no", and you're back to square one. Well, currently it seems that *everyone* who can technically announce a prefix in the global table *and convince their ISP to accept it* gets to run a global AS112 instance. What do people think about setting up a legal entity called RSTOA that would then perform some very simple checks before handing out a LOA? Those who have providers with clue would probably still manage to announce 192.175.48.0/24 without talking to anyone, those who need an LOA would have to contact RSTOA, show that they have configured thongs in a sane manner and would then get a pretty, signed LOA on "official" letterhead. Of course, getting it so that the legal entity was actually allowed to hand out LOAs would be another matter... W > > > (The same issue arises with 6to4 and the 192.88.99.0/24 prefix, BTW.) > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From malikPerrotta@IKLIN.RU Tue Nov 27 01:47:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwuDq-0001tP-7g for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:47:06 -0500 Received: from [201.224.142.42] (helo=[201.224.142.42]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IwuDn-00049r-AL for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:47:04 -0500 Received: from danny-jacky ([162.131.146.98] helo=danny-jacky) by [201.224.142.42] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1zLNMu-000PKB-ts for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:47:35 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c830c1$5197bfa0$2a8ee0c9@dannyjacky> From: "malik Perrotta" To: Subject: dezihtim Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:47:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C83097.68C1B7A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C83097.68C1B7A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable these are the new craze, everyone wants to be wearing an expensive watch = http://www.talww.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C83097.68C1B7A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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    ------=_NextPart_000_2A41C_01C8309A.1DFA2A10-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 09:19:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix1H1-00062e-Nx; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:18:51 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix1H0-00062F-0M for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:18:50 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix1Gz-0003fA-Lc for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:18:49 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id EFF661C00FE for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:18:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC3171C00F9 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:18:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8B658ECCD for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:18:48 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:18:48 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: dnsop@ietf.org Message-ID: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-5-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Subject: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. All the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. This looks like a job for AS112. http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 09:19:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix1H1-00062e-Nx; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:18:51 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix1H0-00062F-0M for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:18:50 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix1Gz-0003fA-Lc for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:18:49 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id EFF661C00FE for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:18:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC3171C00F9 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:18:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8B658ECCD for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:18:48 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:18:48 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: dnsop@ietf.org Message-ID: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-5-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Subject: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. All the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. This looks like a job for AS112. http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 10:09:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix23R-0006L1-7f; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:08:53 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix23Q-0006Ks-RZ for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:08:52 -0500 Received: from moof.catpipe.net ([129.142.64.64]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix23Q-0004L2-6E for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:08:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [129.142.64.64]) by localhost.catpipe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89617D227C; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:08:13 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at catpipe.net Received: from moof.catpipe.net ([129.142.64.64]) by localhost (moof.catpipe.net [129.142.64.64]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GprnpGeBOZZh; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:08:13 +0100 (CET) Received: by moof.catpipe.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8E5DF7D2277; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:08:13 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:08:13 +0100 From: Phil Regnauld To: Stephane Bortzmeyer Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs Message-ID: <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.2-STABLE i386 Organization: catpipe Systems ApS User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: > > I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a > root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this > small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. > > All the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as Apple's > ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. This looks like a > job for AS112. .local is most likely broken internal Windows AD domains (MS has for a long time recommended using .local for internal domains) -- Apple's use of .local is multicast only AFAIK. Phil _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 10:09:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix23R-0006L1-7f; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:08:53 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix23Q-0006Ks-RZ for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:08:52 -0500 Received: from moof.catpipe.net ([129.142.64.64]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix23Q-0004L2-6E for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:08:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [129.142.64.64]) by localhost.catpipe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89617D227C; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:08:13 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at catpipe.net Received: from moof.catpipe.net ([129.142.64.64]) by localhost (moof.catpipe.net [129.142.64.64]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GprnpGeBOZZh; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:08:13 +0100 (CET) Received: by moof.catpipe.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8E5DF7D2277; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:08:13 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:08:13 +0100 From: Phil Regnauld To: Stephane Bortzmeyer Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs Message-ID: <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.2-STABLE i386 Organization: catpipe Systems ApS User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: > > I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a > root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this > small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. > > All the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as Apple's > ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. This looks like a > job for AS112. .local is most likely broken internal Windows AD domains (MS has for a long time recommended using .local for internal domains) -- Apple's use of .local is multicast only AFAIK. Phil _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 10:18:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2CI-00087y-3k; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:18:02 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2CG-00087o-Ds for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:18:00 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2CG-0005wy-2r for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:18:00 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 801811C0114; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:17:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA881C0113; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:17:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E54558ECBC; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:17:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:17:59 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Phil Regnauld Message-ID: <20071127151757.GA29858@nic.fr> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-5-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: AS112 for TLDs X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 04:08:13PM +0100, Phil Regnauld wrote a message of 15 lines which said: > Apple's use of .local is multicast only AFAIK. As with all "local-only" domains (wether they are for names or for addresses), they unavoidably leak. Users see these names, they copy-and-paste them in emails, in Web browsers and to the root it goes. [I assume this is the rationale behind the IETF's lack of enthusiasm for local-only domains such as ".local" or site-local IP addresses.] _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 10:18:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2CI-00087y-3k; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:18:02 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2CG-00087o-Ds for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:18:00 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2CG-0005wy-2r for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:18:00 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 801811C0114; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:17:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA881C0113; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:17:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E54558ECBC; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:17:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:17:59 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Phil Regnauld Message-ID: <20071127151757.GA29858@nic.fr> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-5-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Cc: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: [DNSOP] Re: AS112 for TLDs X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 04:08:13PM +0100, Phil Regnauld wrote a message of 15 lines which said: > Apple's use of .local is multicast only AFAIK. As with all "local-only" domains (wether they are for names or for addresses), they unavoidably leak. Users see these names, they copy-and-paste them in emails, in Web browsers and to the root it goes. [I assume this is the rationale behind the IETF's lack of enthusiasm for local-only domains such as ".local" or site-local IP addresses.] _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 11:08:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2yl-0006B6-Rh; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:08:07 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2yk-0006At-HM for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:08:06 -0500 Received: from smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.36.79]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2yj-0005UM-Qz for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:08:06 -0500 Received: (qmail 67267 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 16:08:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2007 16:08:05 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 6ZgmHWIVM1nJrNCuzUOr3cjcaiZpsapsh3GMSQOIYfFSvFLwRrs972k8tJIMrGg8kA-- Message-ID: <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:07:59 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Regnauld Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> In-Reply-To: <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000007010002000308000000" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5d7a7e767f20255fce80fa0b77fb2433 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000007010002000308000000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phil Regnauld wrote: >Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: > > >>I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this >>small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >> >> I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I have pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is not very reflective of network traffic. > Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > >> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this >> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >> >> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, "boutique" TLDs) >> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is clearly >> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as >> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >> >> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >> >> > > Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things are getting > better. This root where the data originates seems to get less errors > then that reported in 2003 which data mainly came from f.root. > > Thats a significant improvement however after careful inspection we > begin to see the flaws in this data. If this were f.root data then I > would be very impressed. Because the data would show a significant > decrease in error traffic. That would be amazing. In fact the data > looks alot like that I have seen for public roots I have setup. Like > the one now used in Turkey. > > However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not so > amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of ICANN > nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. Shame. > > Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very limited in > scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular TLDs. What i'm > interested to see are the popular TLDs that result in errors > (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report methodology. > > Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of queries > received at the root servers. Only percentages are used in the > metrics. The articles I wrote > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ > > show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million messages. > This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one of the oldest roots > on the net while l.root is one of the newest. In fact if as per the > ICANN blog this data was collected on November 26 then it would of > come from IP 199.7.83.42 that was implemented on 1 November 2007 and > replaced the previous IP address of 198.32.64.12. > > http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm > > The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or > 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both versions of > the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that means the amount of > traffic to them would be very low in comparison to f.root - which in > my opinion provides a more accurate reflection of traffic patterns on > the net. > > So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the impact of > Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case would be NO. It is > however reflective of the data one would associate with a recently > launched root server that few people are yet dependent on. > > Hope my comments help you interpret the data. > > kindest regards > joe baptista -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------000007010002000308000000 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Joe Baptista n:Baptista;Joe org:PublicRoot Consortium adr:;;963 Ford Street;Peterborough;Ontario;K9J 5V5 ;Canada email;internet:baptista@publicroot.org title:PublicRoot Representative tel;fax:+1 (509) 479-0084 tel;cell:+1 (416) 912-6551 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.publicroot.org version:2.1 end:vcard --------------000007010002000308000000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------000007010002000308000000-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 11:08:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2yl-0006B6-Rh; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:08:07 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2yk-0006At-HM for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:08:06 -0500 Received: from smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.36.79]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2yj-0005UM-Qz for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:08:06 -0500 Received: (qmail 67267 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 16:08:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2007 16:08:05 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 6ZgmHWIVM1nJrNCuzUOr3cjcaiZpsapsh3GMSQOIYfFSvFLwRrs972k8tJIMrGg8kA-- Message-ID: <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:07:59 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Regnauld Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> In-Reply-To: <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000007010002000308000000" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5d7a7e767f20255fce80fa0b77fb2433 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000007010002000308000000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phil Regnauld wrote: >Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: > > >>I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this >>small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >> >> I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I have pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is not very reflective of network traffic. > Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > >> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this >> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >> >> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, "boutique" TLDs) >> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is clearly >> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as >> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >> >> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >> >> > > Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things are getting > better. This root where the data originates seems to get less errors > then that reported in 2003 which data mainly came from f.root. > > Thats a significant improvement however after careful inspection we > begin to see the flaws in this data. If this were f.root data then I > would be very impressed. Because the data would show a significant > decrease in error traffic. That would be amazing. In fact the data > looks alot like that I have seen for public roots I have setup. Like > the one now used in Turkey. > > However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not so > amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of ICANN > nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. Shame. > > Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very limited in > scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular TLDs. What i'm > interested to see are the popular TLDs that result in errors > (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report methodology. > > Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of queries > received at the root servers. Only percentages are used in the > metrics. The articles I wrote > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ > > show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million messages. > This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one of the oldest roots > on the net while l.root is one of the newest. In fact if as per the > ICANN blog this data was collected on November 26 then it would of > come from IP 199.7.83.42 that was implemented on 1 November 2007 and > replaced the previous IP address of 198.32.64.12. > > http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm > > The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or > 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both versions of > the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that means the amount of > traffic to them would be very low in comparison to f.root - which in > my opinion provides a more accurate reflection of traffic patterns on > the net. > > So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the impact of > Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case would be NO. It is > however reflective of the data one would associate with a recently > launched root server that few people are yet dependent on. > > Hope my comments help you interpret the data. > > kindest regards > joe baptista -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------000007010002000308000000 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Joe Baptista n:Baptista;Joe org:PublicRoot Consortium adr:;;963 Ford Street;Peterborough;Ontario;K9J 5V5 ;Canada email;internet:baptista@publicroot.org title:PublicRoot Representative tel;fax:+1 (509) 479-0084 tel;cell:+1 (416) 912-6551 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.publicroot.org version:2.1 end:vcard --------------000007010002000308000000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------000007010002000308000000-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 11:48:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3bL-0002Nq-SR; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:59 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3bK-0002MD-2a for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:58 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3bI-00061R-9k for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:58 -0500 Received: from [10.31.32.161] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lARGliJ6065977; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:41 -0500 To: dnsop@ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2086112c730e13d5955355df27e3074b Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1617147977==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============1617147977== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1015940431==_ma============" --============_-1015940431==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 2:58 PM +0100 11/9/07, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it >was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it >was necessary for the glue? I can't speak for "wide agreement" but generally, reducing the amount of unnecessary data is a good thing. The problem is that what is deemed necessary changes over time. At 5:31 PM -0500 11/12/07, Joe Abley wrote: >Is this not also codified in the EPP specification? I thought there was >language to the effect that you MUST specify one or more addresses for >host objects which are subordinate to the registry apex, but that you >MUST NOT specify addresses for hosts which are not. RFC 4932, Section 2.5 may be what you want. # When a host object is provisioned for use as a DNS name server, IP # addresses SHOULD be required only as needed to generate DNS glue # records. I'd add two caveats - not all TLDs do EPP. And that SHOULD was borne in an environment in which registry operations were the central theme, not defending against malicious network behavior. >I went hunting through RFCs to try and find text to quote, but came up >empty (although admittedly I only skimmed through the text). Perhaps I >was looking in the wrong place? Or am I just confused? Confused, certainly. We know you Joe. I don't mean to say that we want to collect the IP addresses as the ICANN APWG draft suggests. I am just saying that it shouldn't be shot down *only* because collecting the IP addresses has heretofore been something we don't cotton to. (Oh, heretofore = up to now; cotton to = we approve of.) -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. --============_-1015940431==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name
    At 2:58 PM +0100 11/9/07, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:

    >I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it
    >was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it
    >was necessary for the glue?

    I can't speak for "wide agreement" but generally, reducing the amount of unnecessary data is a good thing.  The problem is that what is deemed necessary changes over time.

    At 5:31 PM -0500 11/12/07, Joe Abley wrote:

    >Is this not also codified in the EPP specification? I thought there was
    >language to the effect that you MUST specify one or more addresses for
    >host objects which are subordinate to the registry apex, but that you
    >MUST NOT specify addresses for hosts which are not.

    RFC 4932, Section 2.5 may be what you want.

    #   When a host object is provisioned for use as a DNS name server, IP
    #   addresses SHOULD be required only as needed to generate DNS glue
    #   records.

    I'd add two caveats - not all TLDs do EPP.  And that SHOULD was borne in an environment in which registry operations were the central theme, not defending against malicious network behavior.

    >I went hunting through RFCs to try and find text to quote, but came up
    >empty (although admittedly I only skimmed through the text). Perhaps I
    >was looking in the wrong place? Or am I just confused?

    Confused, certainly.  We know you Joe.

    I don't mean to say that we want to collect the IP addresses as the ICANN APWG draft suggests.  I am just saying that it shouldn't be shot down *only* because collecting the IP addresses has heretofore been something we don't cotton to.

    (Oh, heretofore = up to now; cotton to = we approve of.)
    --
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Edward Lewis                                                +1-571-434-5468
    NeuStar

    Think glocally.  Act confused.
    --============_-1015940431==_ma============-- --===============1617147977== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --===============1617147977==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 11:48:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3bL-0002Nq-SR; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:59 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3bK-0002MD-2a for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:58 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3bI-00061R-9k for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:58 -0500 Received: from [10.31.32.161] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lARGliJ6065977; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:41 -0500 To: dnsop@ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2086112c730e13d5955355df27e3074b Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1617147977==" Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============1617147977== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1015940431==_ma============" --============_-1015940431==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 2:58 PM +0100 11/9/07, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it >was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it >was necessary for the glue? I can't speak for "wide agreement" but generally, reducing the amount of unnecessary data is a good thing. The problem is that what is deemed necessary changes over time. At 5:31 PM -0500 11/12/07, Joe Abley wrote: >Is this not also codified in the EPP specification? I thought there was >language to the effect that you MUST specify one or more addresses for >host objects which are subordinate to the registry apex, but that you >MUST NOT specify addresses for hosts which are not. RFC 4932, Section 2.5 may be what you want. # When a host object is provisioned for use as a DNS name server, IP # addresses SHOULD be required only as needed to generate DNS glue # records. I'd add two caveats - not all TLDs do EPP. And that SHOULD was borne in an environment in which registry operations were the central theme, not defending against malicious network behavior. >I went hunting through RFCs to try and find text to quote, but came up >empty (although admittedly I only skimmed through the text). Perhaps I >was looking in the wrong place? Or am I just confused? Confused, certainly. We know you Joe. I don't mean to say that we want to collect the IP addresses as the ICANN APWG draft suggests. I am just saying that it shouldn't be shot down *only* because collecting the IP addresses has heretofore been something we don't cotton to. (Oh, heretofore = up to now; cotton to = we approve of.) -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. --============_-1015940431==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name
    At 2:58 PM +0100 11/9/07, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:

    >I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it
    >was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it
    >was necessary for the glue?

    I can't speak for "wide agreement" but generally, reducing the amount of unnecessary data is a good thing.  The problem is that what is deemed necessary changes over time.

    At 5:31 PM -0500 11/12/07, Joe Abley wrote:

    >Is this not also codified in the EPP specification? I thought there was
    >language to the effect that you MUST specify one or more addresses for
    >host objects which are subordinate to the registry apex, but that you
    >MUST NOT specify addresses for hosts which are not.

    RFC 4932, Section 2.5 may be what you want.

    #   When a host object is provisioned for use as a DNS name server, IP
    #   addresses SHOULD be required only as needed to generate DNS glue
    #   records.

    I'd add two caveats - not all TLDs do EPP.  And that SHOULD was borne in an environment in which registry operations were the central theme, not defending against malicious network behavior.

    >I went hunting through RFCs to try and find text to quote, but came up
    >empty (although admittedly I only skimmed through the text). Perhaps I
    >was looking in the wrong place? Or am I just confused?

    Confused, certainly.  We know you Joe.

    I don't mean to say that we want to collect the IP addresses as the ICANN APWG draft suggests.  I am just saying that it shouldn't be shot down *only* because collecting the IP addresses has heretofore been something we don't cotton to.

    (Oh, heretofore = up to now; cotton to = we approve of.)
    --
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Edward Lewis                                                +1-571-434-5468
    NeuStar

    Think glocally.  Act confused.
    --============_-1015940431==_ma============-- --===============1617147977== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --===============1617147977==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 12:07:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3uX-00019W-Nl; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:49 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3uX-00019G-3D for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:49 -0500 Received: from vgateway.libertyrms.info ([207.219.45.62] helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3uW-0004WW-Nf for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:48 -0500 Received: from mac-andrew.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.198]) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Ix3uW-00022P-93 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:48 -0500 Received: by mac-andrew.int.libertyrms.com (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 29BC03BDF44; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:57 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 11:47:41AM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > At 2:58 PM +0100 11/9/07, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > >I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it > >was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it > >was necessary for the glue? > > I can't speak for "wide agreement" but generally, reducing the amount > of unnecessary data is a good thing. The problem is that what is > deemed necessary changes over time. Note that in a registry, there's an ordering problem, too. Consider this case 1. Register example.org with some name servers. 2. Register ns1.example.org. It's not yet a name server, so you don't need an IP address, because no glue is strictly needed. 3. Update example.org, and add ns1.example.org as a nameserver. The problem is that in (3), _ex hypothesi_ you didn't collect the IP address in (2), so you'll have a delegation that can't be used (since you can't get to the name server without the IP address). Since this is a general problem when in-zone hosts are created in a registry, there are good reasons always to collect and store IP addresses for host objects (or whatever analogous thing you use in your protocol) that are in-zone. -- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org +1 416 646 3304 x4110 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 12:07:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3uX-00019W-Nl; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:49 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3uX-00019G-3D for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:49 -0500 Received: from vgateway.libertyrms.info ([207.219.45.62] helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix3uW-0004WW-Nf for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:48 -0500 Received: from mac-andrew.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.198]) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Ix3uW-00022P-93 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:48 -0500 Received: by mac-andrew.int.libertyrms.com (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 29BC03BDF44; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:07:57 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 11:47:41AM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > At 2:58 PM +0100 11/9/07, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > > >I thought that there was a wide agreement in the TLD community that it > >was bad practice to keep IP addresses of name servers, except when it > >was necessary for the glue? > > I can't speak for "wide agreement" but generally, reducing the amount > of unnecessary data is a good thing. The problem is that what is > deemed necessary changes over time. Note that in a registry, there's an ordering problem, too. Consider this case 1. Register example.org with some name servers. 2. Register ns1.example.org. It's not yet a name server, so you don't need an IP address, because no glue is strictly needed. 3. Update example.org, and add ns1.example.org as a nameserver. The problem is that in (3), _ex hypothesi_ you didn't collect the IP address in (2), so you'll have a delegation that can't be used (since you can't get to the name server without the IP address). Since this is a general problem when in-zone hosts are created in a registry, there are good reasons always to collect and store IP addresses for host objects (or whatever analogous thing you use in your protocol) that are in-zone. -- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org +1 416 646 3304 x4110 _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From DeloresconfirmatoryMilton@containapet.com Tue Nov 27 12:19:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix462-0006C8-5D for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:19:42 -0500 Received: from [190.199.6.47] (helo=bloquef47bc251.cantv.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix461-0006hu-Gh for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:19:42 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host53434033.containapet.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id f7CRME5s45.487301.Pko.8cU.8867027434044 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:19:18 +0400 Message-ID: <189b101c83119$b219ae30$2f06c7be@bloquef47bc251> From: "Marcia Byrne" To: Cc: , =20

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    ------=_NextPart_000_189AD_01C83119.B219AE30-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 12:58:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4hg-0003Df-7z; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:58:36 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4he-0003DR-7Z for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:58:34 -0500 Received: from smtp1.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.14] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4hd-0007Eq-Fq for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:58:34 -0500 Received: from mobile105.mdr.icann.org (mobile105.mdr.icann.org [192.0.39.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lARHwT5P025703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:58:30 -0800 Message-Id: <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> From: John Crain To: Joe Baptista In-Reply-To: <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:58:29 -0800 References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 Cc: Phil Regnauld , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi Joe, It is exactly reflective of traffic as seen at l.root-servers.net and measured by DSC. there is no trickery, plots or evil schemes involved. Shame that your paranoia gets the better of you;) Those are percentages not queries indeed. Total queries varies between 8Kq/s and 10Kq/s on a normal day. So you can do the math if you really want to see it by q/s. Also it only shows the TOP scores, not all TLDs. For clarity: The data is from both current and old IPv4 addresses (Across all instances of L) I have already spoken to CAIDA about supplying them with L-root data for future projects and we will be taking part in their "day in the life of" project so you should see L-root included in their future analysis. John L. Crain Chief Technical Officer I.C.A.N.N. On 27 Nov 2007, at 08:07, Joe Baptista wrote: > Phil Regnauld wrote: > >> Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: >> >>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while >>> this >>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>> > I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I have > pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is not very > reflective of network traffic. > >> Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >> >>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while >>> this >>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>> >>> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, "boutique" TLDs) >>> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is clearly >>> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as >>> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >>> >>> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >>> >> >> Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things are >> getting better. This root where the data originates seems to get >> less errors then that reported in 2003 which data mainly came from >> f.root. >> >> Thats a significant improvement however after careful inspection we >> begin to see the flaws in this data. If this were f.root data then >> I would be very impressed. Because the data would show a >> significant decrease in error traffic. That would be amazing. In >> fact the data looks alot like that I have seen for public roots I >> have setup. Like the one now used in Turkey. >> >> However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not so >> amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of ICANN >> nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. Shame. >> >> Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very limited >> in scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular TLDs. What >> i'm interested to see are the popular TLDs that result in errors >> (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report methodology. >> >> Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of queries >> received at the root servers. Only percentages are used in the >> metrics. The articles I wrote >> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/ >> dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ >> >> show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million messages. >> This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one of the oldest >> roots on the net while l.root is one of the newest. In fact if as >> per the ICANN blog this data was collected on November 26 then it >> would of come from IP 199.7.83.42 that was implemented on 1 >> November 2007 and replaced the previous IP address of 198.32.64.12. >> >> http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm >> >> The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or >> 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both versions of >> the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that means the amount of >> traffic to them would be very low in comparison to f.root - which >> in my opinion provides a more accurate reflection of traffic >> patterns on the net. >> >> So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the impact >> of Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case would be NO. It >> is however reflective of the data one would associate with a >> recently launched root server that few people are yet dependent on. >> >> Hope my comments help you interpret the data. >> >> kindest regards >> joe baptista > > > > -- > Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org > PublicRoot Consortium > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, > Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 > Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 12:58:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4hg-0003Df-7z; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:58:36 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4he-0003DR-7Z for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:58:34 -0500 Received: from smtp1.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.14] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4hd-0007Eq-Fq for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:58:34 -0500 Received: from mobile105.mdr.icann.org (mobile105.mdr.icann.org [192.0.39.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lARHwT5P025703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:58:30 -0800 Message-Id: <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> From: John Crain To: Joe Baptista In-Reply-To: <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:58:29 -0800 References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 Cc: Phil Regnauld , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi Joe, It is exactly reflective of traffic as seen at l.root-servers.net and measured by DSC. there is no trickery, plots or evil schemes involved. Shame that your paranoia gets the better of you;) Those are percentages not queries indeed. Total queries varies between 8Kq/s and 10Kq/s on a normal day. So you can do the math if you really want to see it by q/s. Also it only shows the TOP scores, not all TLDs. For clarity: The data is from both current and old IPv4 addresses (Across all instances of L) I have already spoken to CAIDA about supplying them with L-root data for future projects and we will be taking part in their "day in the life of" project so you should see L-root included in their future analysis. John L. Crain Chief Technical Officer I.C.A.N.N. On 27 Nov 2007, at 08:07, Joe Baptista wrote: > Phil Regnauld wrote: > >> Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: >> >>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while >>> this >>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>> > I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I have > pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is not very > reflective of network traffic. > >> Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >> >>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while >>> this >>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>> >>> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, "boutique" TLDs) >>> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is clearly >>> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as >>> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >>> >>> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >>> >> >> Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things are >> getting better. This root where the data originates seems to get >> less errors then that reported in 2003 which data mainly came from >> f.root. >> >> Thats a significant improvement however after careful inspection we >> begin to see the flaws in this data. If this were f.root data then >> I would be very impressed. Because the data would show a >> significant decrease in error traffic. That would be amazing. In >> fact the data looks alot like that I have seen for public roots I >> have setup. Like the one now used in Turkey. >> >> However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not so >> amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of ICANN >> nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. Shame. >> >> Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very limited >> in scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular TLDs. What >> i'm interested to see are the popular TLDs that result in errors >> (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report methodology. >> >> Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of queries >> received at the root servers. Only percentages are used in the >> metrics. The articles I wrote >> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/ >> dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ >> >> show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million messages. >> This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one of the oldest >> roots on the net while l.root is one of the newest. In fact if as >> per the ICANN blog this data was collected on November 26 then it >> would of come from IP 199.7.83.42 that was implemented on 1 >> November 2007 and replaced the previous IP address of 198.32.64.12. >> >> http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm >> >> The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or >> 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both versions of >> the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that means the amount of >> traffic to them would be very low in comparison to f.root - which >> in my opinion provides a more accurate reflection of traffic >> patterns on the net. >> >> So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the impact >> of Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case would be NO. It >> is however reflective of the data one would associate with a >> recently launched root server that few people are yet dependent on. >> >> Hope my comments help you interpret the data. >> >> kindest regards >> joe baptista > > > > -- > Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org > PublicRoot Consortium > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, > Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 > Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 13:00:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4j8-00048r-PW; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:00:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4j7-00048i-Kb for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:00:05 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4j6-00053v-0O for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:00:05 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lARHx2sG027700; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:59:02 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lARHx24a027699; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:59:02 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:59:02 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org > Note that in a registry, there's an ordering problem, too. Consider > this case > > 1. Register example.org with some name servers. > > 2. Register ns1.example.org. It's not yet a name server, so you > don't need an IP address, because no glue is strictly needed. > > 3. Update example.org, and add ns1.example.org as a nameserver. > > The problem is that in (3), _ex hypothesi_ you didn't collect the IP > address in (2), so you'll have a delegation that can't be used (since > you can't get to the name server without the IP address). > > Since this is a general problem when in-zone hosts are created in a > registry, there are good reasons always to collect and store IP > addresses for host objects (or whatever analogous thing you use in > your protocol) that are in-zone. > > -- > Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street > Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada > M2P 2A8 > jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org +1 416 646 3304 x4110 so WHO is the "owner" of that IP data, the zone admin for "example.org" or the machine admin for "ns1.example.org"? historically, the HOST has had an independent admin, precisely because they control the IP's used by the machine, not the zone admin. --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 13:00:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4j8-00048r-PW; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:00:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4j7-00048i-Kb for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:00:05 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix4j6-00053v-0O for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:00:05 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lARHx2sG027700; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:59:02 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lARHx24a027699; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:59:02 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:59:02 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org > Note that in a registry, there's an ordering problem, too. Consider > this case > > 1. Register example.org with some name servers. > > 2. Register ns1.example.org. It's not yet a name server, so you > don't need an IP address, because no glue is strictly needed. > > 3. Update example.org, and add ns1.example.org as a nameserver. > > The problem is that in (3), _ex hypothesi_ you didn't collect the IP > address in (2), so you'll have a delegation that can't be used (since > you can't get to the name server without the IP address). > > Since this is a general problem when in-zone hosts are created in a > registry, there are good reasons always to collect and store IP > addresses for host objects (or whatever analogous thing you use in > your protocol) that are in-zone. > > -- > Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street > Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada > M2P 2A8 > jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org +1 416 646 3304 x4110 so WHO is the "owner" of that IP data, the zone admin for "example.org" or the machine admin for "ns1.example.org"? historically, the HOST has had an independent admin, precisely because they control the IP's used by the machine, not the zone admin. --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 13:18:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix50m-0008D8-0e; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:18:20 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix50k-0008Cy-W9 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:18:19 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix50k-0002xR-IF for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:18:18 -0500 Received: from [10.31.32.161] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lARIIATS068376; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:18:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:18:04 -0500 To: dnsop@ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org At 5:59 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > so WHO is the "owner" of that IP data, the zone admin > for "example.org" or the machine admin for "ns1.example.org"? The zone admin for sure. It is the registration of the domain name that is specifying the address records of the name servers. The reason I say "for sure" comes from an experience of Harald Alvestrand. (I can't find a URL referencing the problem.) Some years ago one of his slave servers was in a domain whose registration expired and was taken up by a different registrant. Had he registered the IP address of the slave he intended to be using, it would have been easier to debug why every Nth query seemed to get answered incorrectly. > historically, the HOST has had an independent admin, precisely > because they control the IP's used by the machine, not the zone > admin. Historically, we didn't worry about domain name registrations changing hands. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 13:18:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix50m-0008D8-0e; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:18:20 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix50k-0008Cy-W9 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:18:19 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix50k-0002xR-IF for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:18:18 -0500 Received: from [10.31.32.161] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lARIIATS068376; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:18:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:18:04 -0500 To: dnsop@ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org At 5:59 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > so WHO is the "owner" of that IP data, the zone admin > for "example.org" or the machine admin for "ns1.example.org"? The zone admin for sure. It is the registration of the domain name that is specifying the address records of the name servers. The reason I say "for sure" comes from an experience of Harald Alvestrand. (I can't find a URL referencing the problem.) Some years ago one of his slave servers was in a domain whose registration expired and was taken up by a different registrant. Had he registered the IP address of the slave he intended to be using, it would have been easier to debug why every Nth query seemed to get answered incorrectly. > historically, the HOST has had an independent admin, precisely > because they control the IP's used by the machine, not the zone > admin. Historically, we didn't worry about domain name registrations changing hands. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 13:26:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix58Z-0003IB-N7; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:26:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix58Y-0003I3-BL for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:26:22 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix58X-0001Bb-Pi for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:26:22 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lARIPLsG027986; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:25:21 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lARIPLHv027985; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:25:21 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:25:21 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 01:18:04PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > At 5:59 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > > so WHO is the "owner" of that IP data, the zone admin > > for "example.org" or the machine admin for "ns1.example.org"? > > The zone admin for sure. It is the registration of the domain name > that is specifying the address records of the name servers. then we have a small issue... you as zone admin, can't dictate which IP's i must use on my machines, since you don't control my connectivity. as zone admin, your job is to provide accurate mapping betwn lable and address ... the extent of your influence is over the lables used, not their IP addresses. > The reason I say "for sure" comes from an experience of Harald > Alvestrand. (I can't find a URL referencing the problem.) Some > years ago one of his slave servers was in a domain whose registration > expired and was taken up by a different registrant. Had he > registered the IP address of the slave he intended to be using, it > would have been easier to debug why every Nth query seemed to get > answered incorrectly. > > > historically, the HOST has had an independent admin, precisely > > because they control the IP's used by the machine, not the zone > > admin. > > Historically, we didn't worry about domain name registrations changing > hands. Historically, we did worry. We also worried about changes in topology. > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 > NeuStar > > Think glocally. Act confused. > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 13:26:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix58Z-0003IB-N7; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:26:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix58Y-0003I3-BL for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:26:22 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix58X-0001Bb-Pi for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:26:22 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lARIPLsG027986; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:25:21 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lARIPLHv027985; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:25:21 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:25:21 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 01:18:04PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > At 5:59 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > > so WHO is the "owner" of that IP data, the zone admin > > for "example.org" or the machine admin for "ns1.example.org"? > > The zone admin for sure. It is the registration of the domain name > that is specifying the address records of the name servers. then we have a small issue... you as zone admin, can't dictate which IP's i must use on my machines, since you don't control my connectivity. as zone admin, your job is to provide accurate mapping betwn lable and address ... the extent of your influence is over the lables used, not their IP addresses. > The reason I say "for sure" comes from an experience of Harald > Alvestrand. (I can't find a URL referencing the problem.) Some > years ago one of his slave servers was in a domain whose registration > expired and was taken up by a different registrant. Had he > registered the IP address of the slave he intended to be using, it > would have been easier to debug why every Nth query seemed to get > answered incorrectly. > > > historically, the HOST has had an independent admin, precisely > > because they control the IP's used by the machine, not the zone > > admin. > > Historically, we didn't worry about domain name registrations changing > hands. Historically, we did worry. We also worried about changes in topology. > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 > NeuStar > > Think glocally. Act confused. > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 14:11:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix5pa-0007Wq-0h; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:10:50 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix5pY-0007VO-1q for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:10:48 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix5pX-0000r2-Gu for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:10:47 -0500 Received: from [10.31.32.161] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lARJAck4068838; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:10:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:05:55 -0500 To: dnsop@ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Cc: Edward Lewis X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org At 6:25 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > then we have a small issue... you as zone admin, can't > dictate which IP's i must use on my machines, since you don't > control my connectivity. as zone admin, your job is to > provide accurate mapping betwn lable and address ... the > extent of your influence is over the lables used, not their > IP addresses. Since we are getting into pronouns, let's clarify what the roles are. At least these are what I think we are talking about. Zone admin = the registrant of the domain owning the NS set. You ("I" above) = the dude that has the root password to a machine that is mentioned in the NS set. (As opposed to zone admin being the registry that the data is going in to.) It is the prerogative of you to do what it takes to get your machine to function correctly. It's the prerogative of the zone admin to include (or not) your machine in the NS set. A zone admin ought to be aware of what the state of the slave servers are. (That's my main point.) There are minor tweaks, like IP addresses, and then there are major tweaks, like letting the domain lapse. A responsible zone admin would be up to date on what the slave server admins are up to. So, in this case, when the slave server changes IP addresses, this goes to the zone admin, who would then have to update the IP addresses registered. Now being that I work for a TLD, I should say that I'm not enthusiastic about collecting these IP addresses. I like it as it is, collect only what needed for the glue. I mean, no one has said yet what the purpose of collecting the addresses for non-glue machines would be used for - certainly not to be put into DNS. Reporting such IP addresses is more work, it's unclear what they are used for, but if there's a benefit... > Historically, we did worry. We also worried about changes in > topology. There's nothing stopping you from worrying more and more. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 14:11:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix5pa-0007Wq-0h; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:10:50 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix5pY-0007VO-1q for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:10:48 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix5pX-0000r2-Gu for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:10:47 -0500 Received: from [10.31.32.161] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lARJAck4068838; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:10:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:05:55 -0500 To: dnsop@ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Cc: Edward Lewis X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org At 6:25 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > then we have a small issue... you as zone admin, can't > dictate which IP's i must use on my machines, since you don't > control my connectivity. as zone admin, your job is to > provide accurate mapping betwn lable and address ... the > extent of your influence is over the lables used, not their > IP addresses. Since we are getting into pronouns, let's clarify what the roles are. At least these are what I think we are talking about. Zone admin = the registrant of the domain owning the NS set. You ("I" above) = the dude that has the root password to a machine that is mentioned in the NS set. (As opposed to zone admin being the registry that the data is going in to.) It is the prerogative of you to do what it takes to get your machine to function correctly. It's the prerogative of the zone admin to include (or not) your machine in the NS set. A zone admin ought to be aware of what the state of the slave servers are. (That's my main point.) There are minor tweaks, like IP addresses, and then there are major tweaks, like letting the domain lapse. A responsible zone admin would be up to date on what the slave server admins are up to. So, in this case, when the slave server changes IP addresses, this goes to the zone admin, who would then have to update the IP addresses registered. Now being that I work for a TLD, I should say that I'm not enthusiastic about collecting these IP addresses. I like it as it is, collect only what needed for the glue. I mean, no one has said yet what the purpose of collecting the addresses for non-glue machines would be used for - certainly not to be put into DNS. Reporting such IP addresses is more work, it's unclear what they are used for, but if there's a benefit... > Historically, we did worry. We also worried about changes in > topology. There's nothing stopping you from worrying more and more. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 15:03:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix6eH-00088g-KI; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:03:13 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2HJ-00020e-2a for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:23:13 -0500 Received: from sa.vix.com ([2001:4f8:3:bb::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2HI-0004bc-Kc for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:23:13 -0500 Received: by sa.vix.com (Postfix, from userid 716) id 0C22B11480; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:23:12 +0000 (UTC) To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? References: From: Paul Vixie Date: 27 Nov 2007 15:23:11 +0000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:03:13 -0500 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org warren@kumari.net (Warren Kumari) writes: > ... What do people think about setting up a legal entity called RSTOA > that would then perform some very simple checks before handing out a LOA? RSTOA is an existing unincorporated association. you can ask it to do this kind of thing. just find any root name server operator and make your case. (a convenient list of same can be found at .) -- Paul Vixie _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 15:03:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix6eH-00088g-KI; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:03:13 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2HJ-00020e-2a for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:23:13 -0500 Received: from sa.vix.com ([2001:4f8:3:bb::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix2HI-0004bc-Kc for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:23:13 -0500 Received: by sa.vix.com (Postfix, from userid 716) id 0C22B11480; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:23:12 +0000 (UTC) To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? References: From: Paul Vixie Date: 27 Nov 2007 15:23:11 +0000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:03:13 -0500 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org warren@kumari.net (Warren Kumari) writes: > ... What do people think about setting up a legal entity called RSTOA > that would then perform some very simple checks before handing out a LOA? RSTOA is an existing unincorporated association. you can ask it to do this kind of thing. just find any root name server operator and make your case. (a convenient list of same can be found at .) -- Paul Vixie _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 15:57:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7Ua-0006jk-Af; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:57:16 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7UZ-0006ib-99 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:57:15 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7UY-000416-Jz for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:57:15 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lARKvDsG029225; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:57:13 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lARKvDco029224; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:57:13 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:57:13 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:05:55PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > At 6:25 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > > then we have a small issue... you as zone admin, can't > > dictate which IP's i must use on my machines, since you don't > > control my connectivity. as zone admin, your job is to > > provide accurate mapping betwn lable and address ... the > > extent of your influence is over the lables used, not their > > IP addresses. > > Since we are getting into pronouns, let's clarify what the roles are. > At least these are what I think we are talking about. > > Zone admin = the registrant of the domain owning the NS set. > You ("I" above) = the dude that has the root password to a machine > that is mentioned in the NS set. > > (As opposed to zone admin being the registry that the data is going in to.) > > It is the prerogative of you to do what it takes to get your machine > to function correctly. It's the prerogative of the zone admin to > include (or not) your machine in the NS set. > > A zone admin ought to be aware of what the state of the slave servers > are. (That's my main point.) There are minor tweaks, like IP > addresses, and then there are major tweaks, like letting the domain > lapse. A responsible zone admin would be up to date on what the > slave server admins are up to. So, in this case, when the slave > server changes IP addresses, this goes to the zone admin, who would > then have to update the IP addresses registered. a concrete example: i have a zone, example.org and chose the following nameservers: moe.rice.edu ns.isi.edu PDC.example.org as the admin of PDC.example.org, I know what IP addresses are assigned and can change them on whim. However, It is the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. as the admin for example.org, I clearly have the right to choose/select nameservers for my delegation that meet my needs. Now the poor .org admin - he has to beleive me when i tell him what nameservers will be authoritative for example.org. and its prolly prudent for him to contact the admins of ns.isi.edu and moe.rice.edu to collect the correct IP addresses for those nodes... If I was the poor sod responsible for .org, I would not really beleive that the moron holding example.org had done his homework and actually -KNEW- what the IP addresses were for these nodes or was in a position to keep that data current. but that would be me. > Now being that I work for a TLD, I should say that I'm not > enthusiastic about collecting these IP addresses. I like it as it > is, collect only what needed for the glue. I mean, no one has said > yet what the purpose of collecting the addresses for non-glue > machines would be used for - certainly not to be put into DNS. > Reporting such IP addresses is more work, it's unclear what they are > used for, but if there's a benefit... > > > Historically, we did worry. We also worried about changes in > > topology. > > There's nothing stopping you from worrying more and more. > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 > NeuStar > > Think glocally. Act confused. > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 15:57:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7Ua-0006jk-Af; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:57:16 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7UZ-0006ib-99 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:57:15 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7UY-000416-Jz for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:57:15 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lARKvDsG029225; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:57:13 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lARKvDco029224; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:57:13 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:57:13 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:05:55PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > At 6:25 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > > then we have a small issue... you as zone admin, can't > > dictate which IP's i must use on my machines, since you don't > > control my connectivity. as zone admin, your job is to > > provide accurate mapping betwn lable and address ... the > > extent of your influence is over the lables used, not their > > IP addresses. > > Since we are getting into pronouns, let's clarify what the roles are. > At least these are what I think we are talking about. > > Zone admin = the registrant of the domain owning the NS set. > You ("I" above) = the dude that has the root password to a machine > that is mentioned in the NS set. > > (As opposed to zone admin being the registry that the data is going in to.) > > It is the prerogative of you to do what it takes to get your machine > to function correctly. It's the prerogative of the zone admin to > include (or not) your machine in the NS set. > > A zone admin ought to be aware of what the state of the slave servers > are. (That's my main point.) There are minor tweaks, like IP > addresses, and then there are major tweaks, like letting the domain > lapse. A responsible zone admin would be up to date on what the > slave server admins are up to. So, in this case, when the slave > server changes IP addresses, this goes to the zone admin, who would > then have to update the IP addresses registered. a concrete example: i have a zone, example.org and chose the following nameservers: moe.rice.edu ns.isi.edu PDC.example.org as the admin of PDC.example.org, I know what IP addresses are assigned and can change them on whim. However, It is the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. as the admin for example.org, I clearly have the right to choose/select nameservers for my delegation that meet my needs. Now the poor .org admin - he has to beleive me when i tell him what nameservers will be authoritative for example.org. and its prolly prudent for him to contact the admins of ns.isi.edu and moe.rice.edu to collect the correct IP addresses for those nodes... If I was the poor sod responsible for .org, I would not really beleive that the moron holding example.org had done his homework and actually -KNEW- what the IP addresses were for these nodes or was in a position to keep that data current. but that would be me. > Now being that I work for a TLD, I should say that I'm not > enthusiastic about collecting these IP addresses. I like it as it > is, collect only what needed for the glue. I mean, no one has said > yet what the purpose of collecting the addresses for non-glue > machines would be used for - certainly not to be put into DNS. > Reporting such IP addresses is more work, it's unclear what they are > used for, but if there's a benefit... > > > Historically, we did worry. We also worried about changes in > > topology. > > There's nothing stopping you from worrying more and more. > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 > NeuStar > > Think glocally. Act confused. > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 16:04:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7bA-0006Kx-T5; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:04:04 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7b9-0006Km-Ni for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:04:03 -0500 Received: from smtp1.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.14] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7b7-0002q5-Uf for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:04:03 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.4] (c-24-6-157-180.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.6.157.180]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lARL40hl029782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:04:00 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:03:59 -0800 Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? From: David Conrad To: , Edward Lewis Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Thread-Index: AcgxOQeSRlDTSJ0sEdyYTgAX8tYkCw== In-Reply-To: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Bill, > i have a zone, example.org and chose the following > nameservers: > > moe.rice.edu > ns.isi.edu > PDC.example.org > > as the admin of PDC.example.org, I know what IP addresses > are assigned and can change them on whim. However, It is > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. Presumably (assuming we're talking about professionally run infrastructure), there is an agreement between the zone administrator and the providers of secondary services. The IP addresses in use for the secondary service should be part of that agreement. Regards, -drc _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 16:04:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7bA-0006Kx-T5; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:04:04 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7b9-0006Km-Ni for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:04:03 -0500 Received: from smtp1.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.14] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7b7-0002q5-Uf for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:04:03 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.4] (c-24-6-157-180.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.6.157.180]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lARL40hl029782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:04:00 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:03:59 -0800 Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? From: David Conrad To: , Edward Lewis Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Thread-Index: AcgxOQeSRlDTSJ0sEdyYTgAX8tYkCw== In-Reply-To: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Bill, > i have a zone, example.org and chose the following > nameservers: > > moe.rice.edu > ns.isi.edu > PDC.example.org > > as the admin of PDC.example.org, I know what IP addresses > are assigned and can change them on whim. However, It is > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. Presumably (assuming we're talking about professionally run infrastructure), there is an agreement between the zone administrator and the providers of secondary services. The IP addresses in use for the secondary service should be part of that agreement. Regards, -drc _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 16:20:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7qi-00010N-7g; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:20:08 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7qg-000102-BP for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:20:06 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7qf-0006xW-B0 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:20:06 -0500 Received: from [10.31.32.161] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lARLJrPV069854; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:19:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:19:50 -0500 To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, Edward Lewis X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org At 8:57 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > as the admin of PDC.example.org ... however, it is > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. The issue isn't between (say) moe.rice.edu and (say) ns.isi.edu, the issue is between example.org and (say) moe.rice.edu. > needs. Now the poor .org admin - he has to believe me when > i tell him what nameservers will be authoritative for example.org. .org doesn't need to believe example.org's claim. How does .org suffer if example.org mis-lists its servers? How does example.org suffer? > and its prolly prudent for him to contact the admins of > ns.isi.edu and moe.rice.edu to collect the correct IP addresses > for those nodes... If I was the poor sod responsible for .org, > I would not really believe that the moron holding example.org > had done his homework and actually -KNEW- what the IP addresses > were for these nodes or was in a position to keep that data > current. but that would be me. I think the missing link here is knowing what is done with the collected IP addresses. In the following scenario there's no risk if the addresses are incorrect. .org won't list the ns.isi.edu address in DNS, it won't be part of the operational fabric. But let's say someone is debugging a phishing attack (as this stemmed from an APWG thing) and they note that example.org is being served up by 127.0.3.12. They ask .org what IP addresses were reported for example.org and they find that the address being heard isn't one of the listed ones. At this point it would be wrong to conclude that the address is rogue, but it merits questioning to see if it's the case that example.org just didn't make an needed update (whether aware or not) or the address is indeed rogue. At 1:03 PM -0800 11/27/07, David Conrad wrote: >secondary services. The IP addresses in use for the secondary service >should be part of that agreement. That too. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 16:20:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7qi-00010N-7g; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:20:08 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7qg-000102-BP for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:20:06 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix7qf-0006xW-B0 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:20:06 -0500 Received: from [10.31.32.161] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lARLJrPV069854; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:19:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:19:50 -0500 To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, Edward Lewis X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org At 8:57 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > as the admin of PDC.example.org ... however, it is > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. The issue isn't between (say) moe.rice.edu and (say) ns.isi.edu, the issue is between example.org and (say) moe.rice.edu. > needs. Now the poor .org admin - he has to believe me when > i tell him what nameservers will be authoritative for example.org. .org doesn't need to believe example.org's claim. How does .org suffer if example.org mis-lists its servers? How does example.org suffer? > and its prolly prudent for him to contact the admins of > ns.isi.edu and moe.rice.edu to collect the correct IP addresses > for those nodes... If I was the poor sod responsible for .org, > I would not really believe that the moron holding example.org > had done his homework and actually -KNEW- what the IP addresses > were for these nodes or was in a position to keep that data > current. but that would be me. I think the missing link here is knowing what is done with the collected IP addresses. In the following scenario there's no risk if the addresses are incorrect. .org won't list the ns.isi.edu address in DNS, it won't be part of the operational fabric. But let's say someone is debugging a phishing attack (as this stemmed from an APWG thing) and they note that example.org is being served up by 127.0.3.12. They ask .org what IP addresses were reported for example.org and they find that the address being heard isn't one of the listed ones. At this point it would be wrong to conclude that the address is rogue, but it merits questioning to see if it's the case that example.org just didn't make an needed update (whether aware or not) or the address is indeed rogue. At 1:03 PM -0800 11/27/07, David Conrad wrote: >secondary services. The IP addresses in use for the secondary service >should be part of that agreement. That too. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 16:43:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8DN-0002d5-SQ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:43:34 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8DM-0002YO-M6 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:43:32 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8DK-0004h9-Dn for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:43:32 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lARLgTsG029723; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:42:29 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lARLgTPR029722; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:42:29 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:42:29 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127214229.GA29612@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Cc: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 04:19:50PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > At 8:57 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > > as the admin of PDC.example.org ... however, it is > > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu > > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. > > The issue isn't between (say) moe.rice.edu and (say) ns.isi.edu, the > issue is between example.org and (say) moe.rice.edu. w/ you so far. > > needs. Now the poor .org admin - he has to believe me when > > i tell him what nameservers will be authoritative for example.org. > > .org doesn't need to believe example.org's claim. How does .org > suffer if example.org mis-lists its servers? How does example.org > suffer? suffering is subjective. I expect you may be suffering this exchange with the patience of Job. .org gets a request from a legit client - in this case, example.org to add a list of nameservers, some of which in in zone and some are not. > > and its prolly prudent for him to contact the admins of > > ns.isi.edu and moe.rice.edu to collect the correct IP addresses > > for those nodes... If I was the poor sod responsible for .org, > > I would not really believe that the moron holding example.org > > had done his homework and actually -KNEW- what the IP addresses > > were for these nodes or was in a position to keep that data > > current. but that would be me. > > I think the missing link here is knowing what is done with the > collected IP addresses. In the following scenario there's no risk if > the addresses are incorrect. risk is also subjective. > > .org won't list the ns.isi.edu address in DNS, it won't be part of > the operational fabric. But let's say someone is debugging a phishing > attack (as this stemmed from an APWG thing) and they note that > example.org is being served up by 127.0.3.12. They ask .org what IP > addresses were reported for example.org and they find that the address > being heard isn't one of the listed ones. At this point it would be > wrong to conclude that the address is rogue, but it merits questioning > to see if it's the case that example.org just didn't make an needed > update (whether aware or not) or the address is indeed rogue. but its not example.orgs call if ns.isi.edu changed its ip address to 127.0.3.12... is it? that would be the call of the admin for ns.isi.edu. and if there were no contact information on that nameserver in the form of a HOST record in the whois or comments (w/ glue) in the DNS, then debugging an apparent problem is going to be much harder. one could ask if its a service that the .org registry is willing to offer on behalf of its clients and the Internet community, > > At 1:03 PM -0800 11/27/07, David Conrad wrote: > > >secondary services. The IP addresses in use for the secondary service > >should be part of that agreement. > > That too. > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 > NeuStar > > Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 16:43:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8DN-0002d5-SQ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:43:34 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8DM-0002YO-M6 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:43:32 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8DK-0004h9-Dn for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:43:32 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lARLgTsG029723; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:42:29 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lARLgTPR029722; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:42:29 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:42:29 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127214229.GA29612@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Cc: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 04:19:50PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > At 8:57 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > > as the admin of PDC.example.org ... however, it is > > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu > > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. > > The issue isn't between (say) moe.rice.edu and (say) ns.isi.edu, the > issue is between example.org and (say) moe.rice.edu. w/ you so far. > > needs. Now the poor .org admin - he has to believe me when > > i tell him what nameservers will be authoritative for example.org. > > .org doesn't need to believe example.org's claim. How does .org > suffer if example.org mis-lists its servers? How does example.org > suffer? suffering is subjective. I expect you may be suffering this exchange with the patience of Job. .org gets a request from a legit client - in this case, example.org to add a list of nameservers, some of which in in zone and some are not. > > and its prolly prudent for him to contact the admins of > > ns.isi.edu and moe.rice.edu to collect the correct IP addresses > > for those nodes... If I was the poor sod responsible for .org, > > I would not really believe that the moron holding example.org > > had done his homework and actually -KNEW- what the IP addresses > > were for these nodes or was in a position to keep that data > > current. but that would be me. > > I think the missing link here is knowing what is done with the > collected IP addresses. In the following scenario there's no risk if > the addresses are incorrect. risk is also subjective. > > .org won't list the ns.isi.edu address in DNS, it won't be part of > the operational fabric. But let's say someone is debugging a phishing > attack (as this stemmed from an APWG thing) and they note that > example.org is being served up by 127.0.3.12. They ask .org what IP > addresses were reported for example.org and they find that the address > being heard isn't one of the listed ones. At this point it would be > wrong to conclude that the address is rogue, but it merits questioning > to see if it's the case that example.org just didn't make an needed > update (whether aware or not) or the address is indeed rogue. but its not example.orgs call if ns.isi.edu changed its ip address to 127.0.3.12... is it? that would be the call of the admin for ns.isi.edu. and if there were no contact information on that nameserver in the form of a HOST record in the whois or comments (w/ glue) in the DNS, then debugging an apparent problem is going to be much harder. one could ask if its a service that the .org registry is willing to offer on behalf of its clients and the Internet community, > > At 1:03 PM -0800 11/27/07, David Conrad wrote: > > >secondary services. The IP addresses in use for the secondary service > >should be part of that agreement. > > That too. > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 > NeuStar > > Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 16:47:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8H3-00060T-Te; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:47:21 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8H2-00060F-P2 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:47:20 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8H2-0000En-8Z for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:47:20 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lARLkxsG029787; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:46:59 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lARLkxRM029786; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:46:59 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:46:59 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: David Conrad Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127214659.GB29612@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Cc: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Edward Lewis , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 01:03:59PM -0800, David Conrad wrote: > Bill, > > > i have a zone, example.org and chose the following > > nameservers: > > > > moe.rice.edu > > ns.isi.edu > > PDC.example.org > > > > as the admin of PDC.example.org, I know what IP addresses > > are assigned and can change them on whim. However, It is > > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu > > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. > > Presumably (assuming we're talking about professionally run infrastructure), > there is an agreement between the zone administrator and the providers of > secondary services. The IP addresses in use for the secondary service > should be part of that agreement. > > Regards, > -drc > there may be some debate as to how much information is subject to contractual binding. I would hate to be bound to a multiyear contract w/ CSC for nameservice that tied me to one of their old IP blocks. Net 10 is used in so many more places these days. --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 16:47:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8H3-00060T-Te; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:47:21 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8H2-00060F-P2 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:47:20 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8H2-0000En-8Z for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:47:20 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lARLkxsG029787; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:46:59 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lARLkxRM029786; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:46:59 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:46:59 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: David Conrad Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071127214659.GB29612@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Cc: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Edward Lewis , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 01:03:59PM -0800, David Conrad wrote: > Bill, > > > i have a zone, example.org and chose the following > > nameservers: > > > > moe.rice.edu > > ns.isi.edu > > PDC.example.org > > > > as the admin of PDC.example.org, I know what IP addresses > > are assigned and can change them on whim. However, It is > > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu > > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. > > Presumably (assuming we're talking about professionally run infrastructure), > there is an agreement between the zone administrator and the providers of > secondary services. The IP addresses in use for the secondary service > should be part of that agreement. > > Regards, > -drc > there may be some debate as to how much information is subject to contractual binding. I would hate to be bound to a multiyear contract w/ CSC for nameservice that tied me to one of their old IP blocks. Net 10 is used in so many more places these days. --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:04:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8XU-0002wg-NI; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:04:20 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8XT-0002wS-07 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:04:19 -0500 Received: from smtp-out.google.com ([216.239.33.17]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8XS-0004ja-Ej for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:04:18 -0500 Received: from zps19.corp.google.com (zps19.corp.google.com [172.25.146.19]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id lARM4ECg011124; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:04:15 GMT Received: from dot.corp.google.com (dot.corp.google.com [172.29.23.83]) (authenticated bits=0) by zps19.corp.google.com with ESMTP id lARM4Bm0016993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:04:12 -0800 Message-Id: <99FDA15A-AA48-47EA-ACEE-CC8AB96F695F@kumari.net> From: Warren Kumari To: Paul Vixie In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:03:36 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Nov 27, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Paul Vixie wrote: > warren@kumari.net (Warren Kumari) writes: > >> ... What do people think about setting up a legal entity called RSTOA >> that would then perform some very simple checks before handing out >> a LOA? > > RSTOA is an existing unincorporated association. you can ask it to > do this > kind of thing. just find any root name server operator and make > your case. > (a convenient list of same can be found at >.) Oh, well, there you go then... :-) W > > -- > Paul Vixie > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > -- She'd even given herself a middle initial - X - which stood for "someone who has a cool and exciting middle name". -- (Terry Pratchett, Maskerade) _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:04:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8XU-0002wg-NI; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:04:20 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8XT-0002wS-07 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:04:19 -0500 Received: from smtp-out.google.com ([216.239.33.17]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8XS-0004ja-Ej for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:04:18 -0500 Received: from zps19.corp.google.com (zps19.corp.google.com [172.25.146.19]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id lARM4ECg011124; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:04:15 GMT Received: from dot.corp.google.com (dot.corp.google.com [172.29.23.83]) (authenticated bits=0) by zps19.corp.google.com with ESMTP id lARM4Bm0016993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:04:12 -0800 Message-Id: <99FDA15A-AA48-47EA-ACEE-CC8AB96F695F@kumari.net> From: Warren Kumari To: Paul Vixie In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:03:36 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Nov 27, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Paul Vixie wrote: > warren@kumari.net (Warren Kumari) writes: > >> ... What do people think about setting up a legal entity called RSTOA >> that would then perform some very simple checks before handing out >> a LOA? > > RSTOA is an existing unincorporated association. you can ask it to > do this > kind of thing. just find any root name server operator and make > your case. > (a convenient list of same can be found at >.) Oh, well, there you go then... :-) W > > -- > Paul Vixie > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > -- She'd even given herself a middle initial - X - which stood for "someone who has a cool and exciting middle name". -- (Terry Pratchett, Maskerade) _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:05:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8YO-0003MQ-Mk; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:05:16 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8YN-0003MK-Od for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:05:15 -0500 Received: from smtp109.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([68.142.225.207]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8YM-00024D-Rk for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:05:15 -0500 Received: (qmail 20477 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 22:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp109.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2007 22:05:14 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: IweEzToVM1lGfKi7XHsPGjw6L_0oivKJu2WEkZXrpB4BTameuSK72arDht44BI4YSA-- Message-ID: <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:05:11 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Crain Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> In-Reply-To: <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090304060008070308060309" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ec7c6dab5a62df223002ae71b5179d41 Cc: Phil Regnauld , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090304060008070308060309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Crain wrote: > Hi Joe, > > It is exactly reflective of traffic as seen at l.root-servers.net and > measured by DSC. there is no trickery, plots or evil schemes involved. > > Shame that your paranoia gets the better of you;) Your right. There is no trickery, plots or evil schemes involved. I misspoke in the message to the GA. The only one misleading us using the data was stephane and I doubt that was intentional. We are having a discussion concerning TLDs there and the data was used to make a point, which on reflection does not exist due to the particulars made in my reply. > Those are percentages not queries indeed. Total queries varies > between 8Kq/s and 10Kq/s on a normal day. > So you can do the math if you really want to see it by q/s. Also it > only shows the TOP scores, not all TLDs. > > For clarity: The data is from both current and old IPv4 addresses > (Across all instances of L) I know - in both cases recent deployments of a root server. It would be very beneficial to see this data across the other roots for comparison. As I have said the L.root is not reflective of the overall traffic patterns to all the roots as L is a very new instance of a root, either old or new IPv4 address. Incidentally - just how much traffic is this representative of? How many queries came in during the period the data was captured? Thanks for the clarification. regards joe baptista regards joe baptista > > I have already spoken to CAIDA about supplying them with L-root data > for future projects and we will be taking part in their "day in the > life of" project > so you should see L-root included in their future analysis. > > John L. Crain > Chief Technical Officer > I.C.A.N.N. > > > > On 27 Nov 2007, at 08:07, Joe Baptista wrote: > >> Phil Regnauld wrote: >> >>> Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: >>> >>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this >>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>> >> I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I have >> pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is not very >> reflective of network traffic. >> >>> Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >>> >>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this >>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>> >>>> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, "boutique" TLDs) >>>> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is clearly >>>> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as >>>> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >>>> >>>> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >>>> >>> >>> Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things are >>> getting better. This root where the data originates seems to get >>> less errors then that reported in 2003 which data mainly came from >>> f.root. >>> >>> Thats a significant improvement however after careful inspection we >>> begin to see the flaws in this data. If this were f.root data then >>> I would be very impressed. Because the data would show a >>> significant decrease in error traffic. That would be amazing. In >>> fact the data looks alot like that I have seen for public roots I >>> have setup. Like the one now used in Turkey. >>> >>> However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not so >>> amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of ICANN >>> nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. Shame. >>> >>> Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very limited >>> in scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular TLDs. What >>> i'm interested to see are the popular TLDs that result in errors >>> (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report methodology. >>> >>> Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of queries >>> received at the root servers. Only percentages are used in the >>> metrics. The articles I wrote >>> >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/ dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ >>> >>> show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million messages. >>> This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one of the oldest >>> roots on the net while l.root is one of the newest. In fact if as >>> per the ICANN blog this data was collected on November 26 then it >>> would of come from IP 199.7.83.42 that was implemented on 1 >>> November 2007 and replaced the previous IP address of 198.32.64.12. >>> >>> http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm >>> >>> The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or >>> 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both versions of >>> the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that means the amount of >>> traffic to them would be very low in comparison to f.root - which >>> in my opinion provides a more accurate reflection of traffic >>> patterns on the net. >>> >>> So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the impact >>> of Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case would be NO. It >>> is however reflective of the data one would associate with a >>> recently launched root server that few people are yet dependent on. >>> >>> Hope my comments help you interpret the data. >>> >>> kindest regards >>> joe baptista >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >> PublicRoot Consortium >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> DNSOP mailing list >> DNSOP@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > > > > -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------090304060008070308060309 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Joe Baptista n:Baptista;Joe org:PublicRoot Consortium adr:;;963 Ford Street;Peterborough;Ontario;K9J 5V5 ;Canada email;internet:baptista@publicroot.org title:PublicRoot Representative tel;fax:+1 (509) 479-0084 tel;cell:+1 (416) 912-6551 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.publicroot.org version:2.1 end:vcard --------------090304060008070308060309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------090304060008070308060309-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:05:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8YO-0003MQ-Mk; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:05:16 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8YN-0003MK-Od for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:05:15 -0500 Received: from smtp109.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([68.142.225.207]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8YM-00024D-Rk for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:05:15 -0500 Received: (qmail 20477 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 22:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp109.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2007 22:05:14 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: IweEzToVM1lGfKi7XHsPGjw6L_0oivKJu2WEkZXrpB4BTameuSK72arDht44BI4YSA-- Message-ID: <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:05:11 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Crain Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> In-Reply-To: <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090304060008070308060309" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ec7c6dab5a62df223002ae71b5179d41 Cc: Phil Regnauld , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090304060008070308060309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Crain wrote: > Hi Joe, > > It is exactly reflective of traffic as seen at l.root-servers.net and > measured by DSC. there is no trickery, plots or evil schemes involved. > > Shame that your paranoia gets the better of you;) Your right. There is no trickery, plots or evil schemes involved. I misspoke in the message to the GA. The only one misleading us using the data was stephane and I doubt that was intentional. We are having a discussion concerning TLDs there and the data was used to make a point, which on reflection does not exist due to the particulars made in my reply. > Those are percentages not queries indeed. Total queries varies > between 8Kq/s and 10Kq/s on a normal day. > So you can do the math if you really want to see it by q/s. Also it > only shows the TOP scores, not all TLDs. > > For clarity: The data is from both current and old IPv4 addresses > (Across all instances of L) I know - in both cases recent deployments of a root server. It would be very beneficial to see this data across the other roots for comparison. As I have said the L.root is not reflective of the overall traffic patterns to all the roots as L is a very new instance of a root, either old or new IPv4 address. Incidentally - just how much traffic is this representative of? How many queries came in during the period the data was captured? Thanks for the clarification. regards joe baptista regards joe baptista > > I have already spoken to CAIDA about supplying them with L-root data > for future projects and we will be taking part in their "day in the > life of" project > so you should see L-root included in their future analysis. > > John L. Crain > Chief Technical Officer > I.C.A.N.N. > > > > On 27 Nov 2007, at 08:07, Joe Baptista wrote: > >> Phil Regnauld wrote: >> >>> Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: >>> >>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this >>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>> >> I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I have >> pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is not very >> reflective of network traffic. >> >>> Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >>> >>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, while this >>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>> >>>> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, "boutique" TLDs) >>>> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is clearly >>>> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as >>>> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >>>> >>>> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >>>> >>> >>> Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things are >>> getting better. This root where the data originates seems to get >>> less errors then that reported in 2003 which data mainly came from >>> f.root. >>> >>> Thats a significant improvement however after careful inspection we >>> begin to see the flaws in this data. If this were f.root data then >>> I would be very impressed. Because the data would show a >>> significant decrease in error traffic. That would be amazing. In >>> fact the data looks alot like that I have seen for public roots I >>> have setup. Like the one now used in Turkey. >>> >>> However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not so >>> amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of ICANN >>> nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. Shame. >>> >>> Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very limited >>> in scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular TLDs. What >>> i'm interested to see are the popular TLDs that result in errors >>> (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report methodology. >>> >>> Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of queries >>> received at the root servers. Only percentages are used in the >>> metrics. The articles I wrote >>> >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/ dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ >>> >>> show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million messages. >>> This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one of the oldest >>> roots on the net while l.root is one of the newest. In fact if as >>> per the ICANN blog this data was collected on November 26 then it >>> would of come from IP 199.7.83.42 that was implemented on 1 >>> November 2007 and replaced the previous IP address of 198.32.64.12. >>> >>> http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm >>> >>> The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or >>> 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both versions of >>> the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that means the amount of >>> traffic to them would be very low in comparison to f.root - which >>> in my opinion provides a more accurate reflection of traffic >>> patterns on the net. >>> >>> So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the impact >>> of Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case would be NO. It >>> is however reflective of the data one would associate with a >>> recently launched root server that few people are yet dependent on. >>> >>> Hope my comments help you interpret the data. >>> >>> kindest regards >>> joe baptista >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >> PublicRoot Consortium >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> DNSOP mailing list >> DNSOP@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > > > > -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------090304060008070308060309 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Joe Baptista n:Baptista;Joe org:PublicRoot Consortium adr:;;963 Ford Street;Peterborough;Ontario;K9J 5V5 ;Canada email;internet:baptista@publicroot.org title:PublicRoot Representative tel;fax:+1 (509) 479-0084 tel;cell:+1 (416) 912-6551 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.publicroot.org version:2.1 end:vcard --------------090304060008070308060309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------090304060008070308060309-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:12:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8f6-00044I-20; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:12 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8f5-000440-77 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:11 -0500 Received: from smtp2.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.15] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8f4-0006zR-Aa for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:11 -0500 Received: from mobile105.mdr.icann.org (mobile105.mdr.icann.org [192.0.39.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lARMC6C6019026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:12:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: John Crain To: Joe Baptista In-Reply-To: <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:12:06 -0800 References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cdb443e3957ca9b4c5b55e78cfcf4b26 Cc: Phil Regnauld , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi Joe. I didn't do the math, I was using DSC. I'm sure I could figure it out with some DSC tweaking... However with beign completely unscientific and measuring rates averaging from 8kq/s (low) to 10kq/s (high) over a 24hr period it's between 691.2 million and 864 million queries. So a fairly big sample.. I would estimate that it is somewhere inbetween at about 750 million. I'll leave more in depth analysis to the likes of CAIDA, they're better at it than me. John L. Crain Chief Technical Officer I.C.A.N.N. On 27 Nov 2007, at 14:05, Joe Baptista wrote: > John Crain wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> It is exactly reflective of traffic as seen at l.root-servers.net >> and measured by DSC. there is no trickery, plots or evil schemes >> involved. >> >> Shame that your paranoia gets the better of you;) > > Your right. There is no trickery, plots or evil schemes involved. > I misspoke in the message to the GA. The only one misleading us > using the data was stephane and I doubt that was intentional. We > are having a discussion concerning TLDs there and the data was used > to make a point, which on reflection does not exist due to the > particulars made in my reply. > >> Those are percentages not queries indeed. Total queries varies >> between 8Kq/s and 10Kq/s on a normal day. >> So you can do the math if you really want to see it by q/s. Also >> it only shows the TOP scores, not all TLDs. >> >> For clarity: The data is from both current and old IPv4 addresses >> (Across all instances of L) > > I know - in both cases recent deployments of a root server. It > would be very beneficial to see this data across the other roots for > comparison. As I have said the L.root is not reflective of the > overall traffic patterns to all the roots as L is a very new > instance of a root, either old or new IPv4 address. > > Incidentally - just how much traffic is this representative of? How > many queries came in during the period the data was captured? > > Thanks for the clarification. > > regards > joe baptista > > regards > joe baptista > > >> >> I have already spoken to CAIDA about supplying them with L-root >> data for future projects and we will be taking part in their "day >> in the life of" project >> so you should see L-root included in their future analysis. >> >> John L. Crain >> Chief Technical Officer >> I.C.A.N.N. >> >> >> >> On 27 Nov 2007, at 08:07, Joe Baptista wrote: >> >>> Phil Regnauld wrote: >>> >>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: >>>> >>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried >>>>> at a >>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>> while this >>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>> >>> I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I >>> have pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is not >>> very reflective of network traffic. >>> >>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >>>> >>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried >>>>> at a >>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>> while this >>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>> >>>>> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, "boutique" >>>>> TLDs) >>>>> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is clearly >>>>> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such >>>>> as >>>>> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >>>>> >>>>> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >>>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things are >>>> getting better. This root where the data originates seems to >>>> get less errors then that reported in 2003 which data mainly >>>> came from f.root. >>>> >>>> Thats a significant improvement however after careful inspection >>>> we begin to see the flaws in this data. If this were f.root >>>> data then I would be very impressed. Because the data would >>>> show a significant decrease in error traffic. That would be >>>> amazing. In fact the data looks alot like that I have seen for >>>> public roots I have setup. Like the one now used in Turkey. >>>> >>>> However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not so >>>> amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of ICANN >>>> nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. Shame. >>>> >>>> Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very >>>> limited in scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular >>>> TLDs. What i'm interested to see are the popular TLDs that >>>> result in errors (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report >>>> methodology. >>>> >>>> Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of >>>> queries received at the root servers. Only percentages are used >>>> in the metrics. The articles I wrote >>>> >>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/ >>>> dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ >>>> >>>> show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million >>>> messages. This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one of >>>> the oldest roots on the net while l.root is one of the newest. >>>> In fact if as per the ICANN blog this data was collected on >>>> November 26 then it would of come from IP 199.7.83.42 that was >>>> implemented on 1 November 2007 and replaced the previous IP >>>> address of 198.32.64.12. >>>> >>>> http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm >>>> >>>> The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or >>>> 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both versions >>>> of the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that means the >>>> amount of traffic to them would be very low in comparison to >>>> f.root - which in my opinion provides a more accurate reflection >>>> of traffic patterns on the net. >>>> >>>> So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the >>>> impact of Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case would >>>> be NO. It is however reflective of the data one would associate >>>> with a recently launched root server that few people are yet >>>> dependent on. >>>> >>>> Hope my comments help you interpret the data. >>>> >>>> kindest regards >>>> joe baptista >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >>> PublicRoot Consortium >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >>> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >>> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> DNSOP mailing list >>> DNSOP@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org > PublicRoot Consortium > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, > Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 > Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 > > _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:12:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8f6-00044I-20; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:12 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8f5-000440-77 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:11 -0500 Received: from smtp2.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.15] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8f4-0006zR-Aa for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:11 -0500 Received: from mobile105.mdr.icann.org (mobile105.mdr.icann.org [192.0.39.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lARMC6C6019026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:12:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: John Crain To: Joe Baptista In-Reply-To: <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:12:06 -0800 References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cdb443e3957ca9b4c5b55e78cfcf4b26 Cc: Phil Regnauld , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Hi Joe. I didn't do the math, I was using DSC. I'm sure I could figure it out with some DSC tweaking... However with beign completely unscientific and measuring rates averaging from 8kq/s (low) to 10kq/s (high) over a 24hr period it's between 691.2 million and 864 million queries. So a fairly big sample.. I would estimate that it is somewhere inbetween at about 750 million. I'll leave more in depth analysis to the likes of CAIDA, they're better at it than me. John L. Crain Chief Technical Officer I.C.A.N.N. On 27 Nov 2007, at 14:05, Joe Baptista wrote: > John Crain wrote: > >> Hi Joe, >> >> It is exactly reflective of traffic as seen at l.root-servers.net >> and measured by DSC. there is no trickery, plots or evil schemes >> involved. >> >> Shame that your paranoia gets the better of you;) > > Your right. There is no trickery, plots or evil schemes involved. > I misspoke in the message to the GA. The only one misleading us > using the data was stephane and I doubt that was intentional. We > are having a discussion concerning TLDs there and the data was used > to make a point, which on reflection does not exist due to the > particulars made in my reply. > >> Those are percentages not queries indeed. Total queries varies >> between 8Kq/s and 10Kq/s on a normal day. >> So you can do the math if you really want to see it by q/s. Also >> it only shows the TOP scores, not all TLDs. >> >> For clarity: The data is from both current and old IPv4 addresses >> (Across all instances of L) > > I know - in both cases recent deployments of a root server. It > would be very beneficial to see this data across the other roots for > comparison. As I have said the L.root is not reflective of the > overall traffic patterns to all the roots as L is a very new > instance of a root, either old or new IPv4 address. > > Incidentally - just how much traffic is this representative of? How > many queries came in during the period the data was captured? > > Thanks for the clarification. > > regards > joe baptista > > regards > joe baptista > > >> >> I have already spoken to CAIDA about supplying them with L-root >> data for future projects and we will be taking part in their "day >> in the life of" project >> so you should see L-root included in their future analysis. >> >> John L. Crain >> Chief Technical Officer >> I.C.A.N.N. >> >> >> >> On 27 Nov 2007, at 08:07, Joe Baptista wrote: >> >>> Phil Regnauld wrote: >>> >>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: >>>> >>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried >>>>> at a >>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>> while this >>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>> >>> I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I >>> have pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is not >>> very reflective of network traffic. >>> >>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >>>> >>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried >>>>> at a >>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>> while this >>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>> >>>>> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, "boutique" >>>>> TLDs) >>>>> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is clearly >>>>> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such >>>>> as >>>>> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >>>>> >>>>> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >>>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things are >>>> getting better. This root where the data originates seems to >>>> get less errors then that reported in 2003 which data mainly >>>> came from f.root. >>>> >>>> Thats a significant improvement however after careful inspection >>>> we begin to see the flaws in this data. If this were f.root >>>> data then I would be very impressed. Because the data would >>>> show a significant decrease in error traffic. That would be >>>> amazing. In fact the data looks alot like that I have seen for >>>> public roots I have setup. Like the one now used in Turkey. >>>> >>>> However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not so >>>> amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of ICANN >>>> nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. Shame. >>>> >>>> Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very >>>> limited in scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular >>>> TLDs. What i'm interested to see are the popular TLDs that >>>> result in errors (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report >>>> methodology. >>>> >>>> Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of >>>> queries received at the root servers. Only percentages are used >>>> in the metrics. The articles I wrote >>>> >>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/ >>>> dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ >>>> >>>> show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million >>>> messages. This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one of >>>> the oldest roots on the net while l.root is one of the newest. >>>> In fact if as per the ICANN blog this data was collected on >>>> November 26 then it would of come from IP 199.7.83.42 that was >>>> implemented on 1 November 2007 and replaced the previous IP >>>> address of 198.32.64.12. >>>> >>>> http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm >>>> >>>> The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or >>>> 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both versions >>>> of the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that means the >>>> amount of traffic to them would be very low in comparison to >>>> f.root - which in my opinion provides a more accurate reflection >>>> of traffic patterns on the net. >>>> >>>> So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the >>>> impact of Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case would >>>> be NO. It is however reflective of the data one would associate >>>> with a recently launched root server that few people are yet >>>> dependent on. >>>> >>>> Hope my comments help you interpret the data. >>>> >>>> kindest regards >>>> joe baptista >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >>> PublicRoot Consortium >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >>> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >>> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> DNSOP mailing list >>> DNSOP@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org > PublicRoot Consortium > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, > Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 > Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 > > _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:12:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8fq-00056a-RA; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:58 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8fp-00055o-88 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:57 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8fo-0004I9-LO for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:57 -0500 Received: from [10.31.32.161] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lARMClFV071610; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20071127214229.GA29612@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127214229.GA29612@vacation.karoshi.com.> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:41 -0500 To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Edward Lewis , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org At 9:42 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > but its not example.orgs call if ns.isi.edu changed its ip > address to 127.0.3.12... is it? that would be the call of the > admin for ns.isi.edu. Yeah - but - it is example.org's call to de-list ns.isi.edu because of the change. I mean, what if ns.isi.edu changes it's name to ns1.isi.edu, or becomes IPv6 only (and there's no way for example.org's admin to reach it anymore)? Or changes the admin to some organization you don't want to deal with? Anyway, this is a red herring. The issue isn't about example.org crimping ns.isi.edu's style, it's about example.org maintaining more information about its delegation. When the change happens at ns.isi.edu, the correct next step is to have example.org change the IP it registers. > and if there were no contact information on that nameserver in > the form of a HOST record in the whois or comments (w/ glue) in > the DNS, then debugging an apparent problem is going to be much > harder. one could ask if its a service that the .org registry > is willing to offer on behalf of its clients and the Internet > community, My assumption is that debugging requires getting on the phone and getting a live support person somewhere or maybe even a legal request for information. (Being without a law degree, I can't correctly spell "subpeona.") The time is long gone when I can look something up on-line and feel I have a reasonable handle on debugging a situation. I suspect that these extra IP addresses might at best be in WhoIs, but more likely just filed away somewhere internally as they have no operational (packet-flowing) value. Frankly though, I don't see this information collection happening unless there is some strong motivation given. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:12:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8fq-00056a-RA; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:58 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8fp-00055o-88 for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:57 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8fo-0004I9-LO for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:57 -0500 Received: from [10.31.32.161] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lARMClFV071610; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20071127214229.GA29612@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127214229.GA29612@vacation.karoshi.com.> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:41 -0500 To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Edward Lewis , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org At 9:42 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > but its not example.orgs call if ns.isi.edu changed its ip > address to 127.0.3.12... is it? that would be the call of the > admin for ns.isi.edu. Yeah - but - it is example.org's call to de-list ns.isi.edu because of the change. I mean, what if ns.isi.edu changes it's name to ns1.isi.edu, or becomes IPv6 only (and there's no way for example.org's admin to reach it anymore)? Or changes the admin to some organization you don't want to deal with? Anyway, this is a red herring. The issue isn't about example.org crimping ns.isi.edu's style, it's about example.org maintaining more information about its delegation. When the change happens at ns.isi.edu, the correct next step is to have example.org change the IP it registers. > and if there were no contact information on that nameserver in > the form of a HOST record in the whois or comments (w/ glue) in > the DNS, then debugging an apparent problem is going to be much > harder. one could ask if its a service that the .org registry > is willing to offer on behalf of its clients and the Internet > community, My assumption is that debugging requires getting on the phone and getting a live support person somewhere or maybe even a legal request for information. (Being without a law degree, I can't correctly spell "subpeona.") The time is long gone when I can look something up on-line and feel I have a reasonable handle on debugging a situation. I suspect that these extra IP addresses might at best be in WhoIs, but more likely just filed away somewhere internally as they have no operational (packet-flowing) value. Frankly though, I don't see this information collection happening unless there is some strong motivation given. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:28:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8un-0006uo-U5; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:28:25 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8ul-0006uR-UG for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:28:23 -0500 Received: from smtp103.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.36.81]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8uk-0000Ff-VH for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:28:23 -0500 Received: (qmail 16929 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 22:28:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp103.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2007 22:28:22 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: FdiWEOkVM1kDxpTXt7OG6pAdMPZbRuFA3JZe7vqjObkI_lQoas.HYLZWwQJUXrah8Q-- Message-ID: <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:28:20 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Crain Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020706040606020805040106" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 578c2c9d0cb01ffe6e1ca36540edd070 Cc: Phil Regnauld , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020706040606020805040106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Crain wrote: > Hi Joe. > > I didn't do the math, I was using DSC. > > I'm sure I could figure it out with some DSC tweaking... > > However with beign completely unscientific and measuring rates > averaging from 8kq/s (low) to 10kq/s (high) over a 24hr period > it's between 691.2 million and 864 million queries. So a fairly big > sample.. I would estimate that it is somewhere inbetween at about 750 > million. Interesting. Just doing some more estimating - what percentage of those queries, or how are they divided between the old and new IP. regards joe baptista > > > I'll leave more in depth analysis to the likes of CAIDA, they're > better at it than me. > > > John L. Crain > Chief Technical Officer > I.C.A.N.N. > > > > On 27 Nov 2007, at 14:05, Joe Baptista wrote: > >> John Crain wrote: >> >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>> It is exactly reflective of traffic as seen at l.root-servers.net >>> and measured by DSC. there is no trickery, plots or evil schemes >>> involved. >>> >>> Shame that your paranoia gets the better of you;) >> >> >> Your right. There is no trickery, plots or evil schemes involved. >> I misspoke in the message to the GA. The only one misleading us >> using the data was stephane and I doubt that was intentional. We >> are having a discussion concerning TLDs there and the data was used >> to make a point, which on reflection does not exist due to the >> particulars made in my reply. >> >>> Those are percentages not queries indeed. Total queries varies >>> between 8Kq/s and 10Kq/s on a normal day. >>> So you can do the math if you really want to see it by q/s. Also >>> it only shows the TOP scores, not all TLDs. >>> >>> For clarity: The data is from both current and old IPv4 addresses >>> (Across all instances of L) >> >> >> I know - in both cases recent deployments of a root server. It >> would be very beneficial to see this data across the other roots for >> comparison. As I have said the L.root is not reflective of the >> overall traffic patterns to all the roots as L is a very new >> instance of a root, either old or new IPv4 address. >> >> Incidentally - just how much traffic is this representative of? How >> many queries came in during the period the data was captured? >> >> Thanks for the clarification. >> >> regards >> joe baptista >> >> regards >> joe baptista >> >> >>> >>> I have already spoken to CAIDA about supplying them with L-root >>> data for future projects and we will be taking part in their "day >>> in the life of" project >>> so you should see L-root included in their future analysis. >>> >>> John L. Crain >>> Chief Technical Officer >>> I.C.A.N.N. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 27 Nov 2007, at 08:07, Joe Baptista wrote: >>> >>>> Phil Regnauld wrote: >>>> >>>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: >>>>> >>>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>>> while this >>>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>>> >>>> I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I >>>> have pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is not >>>> very reflective of network traffic. >>>> >>>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>>> while this >>>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>>> >>>>>> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, "boutique" >>>>>> TLDs) >>>>>> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is clearly >>>>>> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as >>>>>> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things are >>>>> getting better. This root where the data originates seems to >>>>> get less errors then that reported in 2003 which data mainly >>>>> came from f.root. >>>>> >>>>> Thats a significant improvement however after careful inspection >>>>> we begin to see the flaws in this data. If this were f.root >>>>> data then I would be very impressed. Because the data would >>>>> show a significant decrease in error traffic. That would be >>>>> amazing. In fact the data looks alot like that I have seen for >>>>> public roots I have setup. Like the one now used in Turkey. >>>>> >>>>> However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not so >>>>> amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of ICANN >>>>> nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. Shame. >>>>> >>>>> Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very >>>>> limited in scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular >>>>> TLDs. What i'm interested to see are the popular TLDs that >>>>> result in errors (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report >>>>> methodology. >>>>> >>>>> Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of >>>>> queries received at the root servers. Only percentages are used >>>>> in the metrics. The articles I wrote >>>>> >>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/ >>>>> dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ >>>>> >>>>> show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million >>>>> messages. This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one of >>>>> the oldest roots on the net while l.root is one of the newest. >>>>> In fact if as per the ICANN blog this data was collected on >>>>> November 26 then it would of come from IP 199.7.83.42 that was >>>>> implemented on 1 November 2007 and replaced the previous IP >>>>> address of 198.32.64.12. >>>>> >>>>> http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm >>>>> >>>>> The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or >>>>> 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both versions >>>>> of the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that means the >>>>> amount of traffic to them would be very low in comparison to >>>>> f.root - which in my opinion provides a more accurate reflection >>>>> of traffic patterns on the net. >>>>> >>>>> So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the >>>>> impact of Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case would >>>>> be NO. It is however reflective of the data one would associate >>>>> with a recently launched root server that few people are yet >>>>> dependent on. >>>>> >>>>> Hope my comments help you interpret the data. >>>>> >>>>> kindest regards >>>>> joe baptista >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >>>> PublicRoot Consortium >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >>>> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >>>> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> DNSOP mailing list >>>> DNSOP@ietf.org >>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >> PublicRoot Consortium >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > > -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------020706040606020805040106 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Joe Baptista n:Baptista;Joe org:PublicRoot Consortium adr:;;963 Ford Street;Peterborough;Ontario;K9J 5V5 ;Canada email;internet:baptista@publicroot.org title:PublicRoot Representative tel;fax:+1 (509) 479-0084 tel;cell:+1 (416) 912-6551 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.publicroot.org version:2.1 end:vcard --------------020706040606020805040106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------020706040606020805040106-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:28:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8un-0006uo-U5; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:28:25 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8ul-0006uR-UG for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:28:23 -0500 Received: from smtp103.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.36.81]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix8uk-0000Ff-VH for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:28:23 -0500 Received: (qmail 16929 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 22:28:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp103.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2007 22:28:22 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: FdiWEOkVM1kDxpTXt7OG6pAdMPZbRuFA3JZe7vqjObkI_lQoas.HYLZWwQJUXrah8Q-- Message-ID: <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:28:20 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Crain Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020706040606020805040106" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 578c2c9d0cb01ffe6e1ca36540edd070 Cc: Phil Regnauld , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020706040606020805040106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Crain wrote: > Hi Joe. > > I didn't do the math, I was using DSC. > > I'm sure I could figure it out with some DSC tweaking... > > However with beign completely unscientific and measuring rates > averaging from 8kq/s (low) to 10kq/s (high) over a 24hr period > it's between 691.2 million and 864 million queries. So a fairly big > sample.. I would estimate that it is somewhere inbetween at about 750 > million. Interesting. Just doing some more estimating - what percentage of those queries, or how are they divided between the old and new IP. regards joe baptista > > > I'll leave more in depth analysis to the likes of CAIDA, they're > better at it than me. > > > John L. Crain > Chief Technical Officer > I.C.A.N.N. > > > > On 27 Nov 2007, at 14:05, Joe Baptista wrote: > >> John Crain wrote: >> >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>> It is exactly reflective of traffic as seen at l.root-servers.net >>> and measured by DSC. there is no trickery, plots or evil schemes >>> involved. >>> >>> Shame that your paranoia gets the better of you;) >> >> >> Your right. There is no trickery, plots or evil schemes involved. >> I misspoke in the message to the GA. The only one misleading us >> using the data was stephane and I doubt that was intentional. We >> are having a discussion concerning TLDs there and the data was used >> to make a point, which on reflection does not exist due to the >> particulars made in my reply. >> >>> Those are percentages not queries indeed. Total queries varies >>> between 8Kq/s and 10Kq/s on a normal day. >>> So you can do the math if you really want to see it by q/s. Also >>> it only shows the TOP scores, not all TLDs. >>> >>> For clarity: The data is from both current and old IPv4 addresses >>> (Across all instances of L) >> >> >> I know - in both cases recent deployments of a root server. It >> would be very beneficial to see this data across the other roots for >> comparison. As I have said the L.root is not reflective of the >> overall traffic patterns to all the roots as L is a very new >> instance of a root, either old or new IPv4 address. >> >> Incidentally - just how much traffic is this representative of? How >> many queries came in during the period the data was captured? >> >> Thanks for the clarification. >> >> regards >> joe baptista >> >> regards >> joe baptista >> >> >>> >>> I have already spoken to CAIDA about supplying them with L-root >>> data for future projects and we will be taking part in their "day >>> in the life of" project >>> so you should see L-root included in their future analysis. >>> >>> John L. Crain >>> Chief Technical Officer >>> I.C.A.N.N. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 27 Nov 2007, at 08:07, Joe Baptista wrote: >>> >>>> Phil Regnauld wrote: >>>> >>>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: >>>>> >>>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>>> while this >>>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>>> >>>> I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I >>>> have pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is not >>>> very reflective of network traffic. >>>> >>>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often queried at a >>>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>>> while this >>>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>>> >>>>>> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, "boutique" >>>>>> TLDs) >>>>>> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is clearly >>>>>> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains (such as >>>>>> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things are >>>>> getting better. This root where the data originates seems to >>>>> get less errors then that reported in 2003 which data mainly >>>>> came from f.root. >>>>> >>>>> Thats a significant improvement however after careful inspection >>>>> we begin to see the flaws in this data. If this were f.root >>>>> data then I would be very impressed. Because the data would >>>>> show a significant decrease in error traffic. That would be >>>>> amazing. In fact the data looks alot like that I have seen for >>>>> public roots I have setup. Like the one now used in Turkey. >>>>> >>>>> However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not so >>>>> amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of ICANN >>>>> nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. Shame. >>>>> >>>>> Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very >>>>> limited in scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular >>>>> TLDs. What i'm interested to see are the popular TLDs that >>>>> result in errors (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report >>>>> methodology. >>>>> >>>>> Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of >>>>> queries received at the root servers. Only percentages are used >>>>> in the metrics. The articles I wrote >>>>> >>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/ >>>>> dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ >>>>> >>>>> show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million >>>>> messages. This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one of >>>>> the oldest roots on the net while l.root is one of the newest. >>>>> In fact if as per the ICANN blog this data was collected on >>>>> November 26 then it would of come from IP 199.7.83.42 that was >>>>> implemented on 1 November 2007 and replaced the previous IP >>>>> address of 198.32.64.12. >>>>> >>>>> http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm >>>>> >>>>> The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or >>>>> 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both versions >>>>> of the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that means the >>>>> amount of traffic to them would be very low in comparison to >>>>> f.root - which in my opinion provides a more accurate reflection >>>>> of traffic patterns on the net. >>>>> >>>>> So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the >>>>> impact of Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case would >>>>> be NO. It is however reflective of the data one would associate >>>>> with a recently launched root server that few people are yet >>>>> dependent on. >>>>> >>>>> Hope my comments help you interpret the data. >>>>> >>>>> kindest regards >>>>> joe baptista >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >>>> PublicRoot Consortium >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >>>> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >>>> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> DNSOP mailing list >>>> DNSOP@ietf.org >>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >> PublicRoot Consortium >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > > -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------020706040606020805040106 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Joe Baptista n:Baptista;Joe org:PublicRoot Consortium adr:;;963 Ford Street;Peterborough;Ontario;K9J 5V5 ;Canada email;internet:baptista@publicroot.org title:PublicRoot Representative tel;fax:+1 (509) 479-0084 tel;cell:+1 (416) 912-6551 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.publicroot.org version:2.1 end:vcard --------------020706040606020805040106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------020706040606020805040106-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:35:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix91h-0006Vr-DJ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:35:33 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix91f-0006Vi-Ie for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:35:31 -0500 Received: from smtp1.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.14] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix91e-00028i-Da for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:35:31 -0500 Received: from mobile105.mdr.icann.org (mobile105.mdr.icann.org [192.0.39.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lARMZTNE031765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:35:29 -0800 Message-Id: <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> From: John Crain To: Joe Baptista In-Reply-To: <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:35:29 -0800 References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) X-Scan-Signature: fb93e867a11a29ac1dc5018706b412ac Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org hi Joe Not sure if everyone is interested in our back and forth so maybe you can post me a list of questions privately and I'll pull up more stats and graphs if I have them and post them on the blog where people can see them... The more data you have, the more questions it raises... Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( I'll produce some trends (and publish them) once we have more long term data on this. John L. Crain Chief Technical Officer I.C.A.N.N. On 27 Nov 2007, at 14:28, Joe Baptista wrote: > John Crain wrote: > >> Hi Joe. >> >> I didn't do the math, I was using DSC. >> >> I'm sure I could figure it out with some DSC tweaking... >> >> However with beign completely unscientific and measuring rates >> averaging from 8kq/s (low) to 10kq/s (high) over a 24hr period >> it's between 691.2 million and 864 million queries. So a fairly >> big sample.. I would estimate that it is somewhere inbetween at >> about 750 million. > > Interesting. Just doing some more estimating - what percentage of > those queries, or how are they divided between the old and new IP. > > regards > joe baptista > >> >> >> I'll leave more in depth analysis to the likes of CAIDA, they're >> better at it than me. >> >> >> John L. Crain >> Chief Technical Officer >> I.C.A.N.N. >> >> >> >> On 27 Nov 2007, at 14:05, Joe Baptista wrote: >> >>> John Crain wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Joe, >>>> >>>> It is exactly reflective of traffic as seen at l.root- >>>> servers.net and measured by DSC. there is no trickery, plots >>>> or evil schemes involved. >>>> >>>> Shame that your paranoia gets the better of you;) >>> >>> >>> Your right. There is no trickery, plots or evil schemes >>> involved. I misspoke in the message to the GA. The only one >>> misleading us using the data was stephane and I doubt that was >>> intentional. We are having a discussion concerning TLDs there >>> and the data was used to make a point, which on reflection does >>> not exist due to the particulars made in my reply. >>> >>>> Those are percentages not queries indeed. Total queries varies >>>> between 8Kq/s and 10Kq/s on a normal day. >>>> So you can do the math if you really want to see it by q/s. >>>> Also it only shows the TOP scores, not all TLDs. >>>> >>>> For clarity: The data is from both current and old IPv4 >>>> addresses (Across all instances of L) >>> >>> >>> I know - in both cases recent deployments of a root server. It >>> would be very beneficial to see this data across the other roots >>> for comparison. As I have said the L.root is not reflective of >>> the overall traffic patterns to all the roots as L is a very new >>> instance of a root, either old or new IPv4 address. >>> >>> Incidentally - just how much traffic is this representative of? >>> How many queries came in during the period the data was captured? >>> >>> Thanks for the clarification. >>> >>> regards >>> joe baptista >>> >>> regards >>> joe baptista >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I have already spoken to CAIDA about supplying them with L-root >>>> data for future projects and we will be taking part in their >>>> "day in the life of" project >>>> so you should see L-root included in their future analysis. >>>> >>>> John L. Crain >>>> Chief Technical Officer >>>> I.C.A.N.N. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 27 Nov 2007, at 08:07, Joe Baptista wrote: >>>> >>>>> Phil Regnauld wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often >>>>>>> queried at a >>>>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>>>> while this >>>>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>>>> >>>>> I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I >>>>> have pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is >>>>> not very reflective of network traffic. >>>>> >>>>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often >>>>>>> queried at a >>>>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>>>> while this >>>>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, >>>>>>> "boutique" TLDs) >>>>>>> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is >>>>>>> clearly >>>>>>> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains >>>>>>> (such as >>>>>>> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things >>>>>> are getting better. This root where the data originates >>>>>> seems to get less errors then that reported in 2003 which >>>>>> data mainly came from f.root. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thats a significant improvement however after careful >>>>>> inspection we begin to see the flaws in this data. If this >>>>>> were f.root data then I would be very impressed. Because the >>>>>> data would show a significant decrease in error traffic. >>>>>> That would be amazing. In fact the data looks alot like that >>>>>> I have seen for public roots I have setup. Like the one now >>>>>> used in Turkey. >>>>>> >>>>>> However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not >>>>>> so amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of >>>>>> ICANN nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. >>>>>> Shame. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very >>>>>> limited in scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular >>>>>> TLDs. What i'm interested to see are the popular TLDs that >>>>>> result in errors (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report >>>>>> methodology. >>>>>> >>>>>> Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of >>>>>> queries received at the root servers. Only percentages are >>>>>> used in the metrics. The articles I wrote >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/ >>>>>> dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ >>>>>> >>>>>> show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million >>>>>> messages. This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one >>>>>> of the oldest roots on the net while l.root is one of the >>>>>> newest. In fact if as per the ICANN blog this data was >>>>>> collected on November 26 then it would of come from IP >>>>>> 199.7.83.42 that was implemented on 1 November 2007 and >>>>>> replaced the previous IP address of 198.32.64.12. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or >>>>>> 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both >>>>>> versions of the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that >>>>>> means the amount of traffic to them would be very low in >>>>>> comparison to f.root - which in my opinion provides a more >>>>>> accurate reflection of traffic patterns on the net. >>>>>> >>>>>> So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the >>>>>> impact of Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case >>>>>> would be NO. It is however reflective of the data one would >>>>>> associate with a recently launched root server that few >>>>>> people are yet dependent on. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hope my comments help you interpret the data. >>>>>> >>>>>> kindest regards >>>>>> joe baptista >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >>>>> PublicRoot Consortium >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >>>>> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >>>>> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> DNSOP mailing list >>>>> DNSOP@ietf.org >>>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >>> PublicRoot Consortium >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >>> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >>> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> DNSOP mailing list >> DNSOP@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >> >> > > > -- > Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org > PublicRoot Consortium > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, > Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 > Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 17:35:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix91h-0006Vr-DJ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:35:33 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix91f-0006Vi-Ie for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:35:31 -0500 Received: from smtp1.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.14] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix91e-00028i-Da for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:35:31 -0500 Received: from mobile105.mdr.icann.org (mobile105.mdr.icann.org [192.0.39.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lARMZTNE031765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:35:29 -0800 Message-Id: <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> From: John Crain To: Joe Baptista In-Reply-To: <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:35:29 -0800 References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) X-Scan-Signature: fb93e867a11a29ac1dc5018706b412ac Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org hi Joe Not sure if everyone is interested in our back and forth so maybe you can post me a list of questions privately and I'll pull up more stats and graphs if I have them and post them on the blog where people can see them... The more data you have, the more questions it raises... Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( I'll produce some trends (and publish them) once we have more long term data on this. John L. Crain Chief Technical Officer I.C.A.N.N. On 27 Nov 2007, at 14:28, Joe Baptista wrote: > John Crain wrote: > >> Hi Joe. >> >> I didn't do the math, I was using DSC. >> >> I'm sure I could figure it out with some DSC tweaking... >> >> However with beign completely unscientific and measuring rates >> averaging from 8kq/s (low) to 10kq/s (high) over a 24hr period >> it's between 691.2 million and 864 million queries. So a fairly >> big sample.. I would estimate that it is somewhere inbetween at >> about 750 million. > > Interesting. Just doing some more estimating - what percentage of > those queries, or how are they divided between the old and new IP. > > regards > joe baptista > >> >> >> I'll leave more in depth analysis to the likes of CAIDA, they're >> better at it than me. >> >> >> John L. Crain >> Chief Technical Officer >> I.C.A.N.N. >> >> >> >> On 27 Nov 2007, at 14:05, Joe Baptista wrote: >> >>> John Crain wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Joe, >>>> >>>> It is exactly reflective of traffic as seen at l.root- >>>> servers.net and measured by DSC. there is no trickery, plots >>>> or evil schemes involved. >>>> >>>> Shame that your paranoia gets the better of you;) >>> >>> >>> Your right. There is no trickery, plots or evil schemes >>> involved. I misspoke in the message to the GA. The only one >>> misleading us using the data was stephane and I doubt that was >>> intentional. We are having a discussion concerning TLDs there >>> and the data was used to make a point, which on reflection does >>> not exist due to the particulars made in my reply. >>> >>>> Those are percentages not queries indeed. Total queries varies >>>> between 8Kq/s and 10Kq/s on a normal day. >>>> So you can do the math if you really want to see it by q/s. >>>> Also it only shows the TOP scores, not all TLDs. >>>> >>>> For clarity: The data is from both current and old IPv4 >>>> addresses (Across all instances of L) >>> >>> >>> I know - in both cases recent deployments of a root server. It >>> would be very beneficial to see this data across the other roots >>> for comparison. As I have said the L.root is not reflective of >>> the overall traffic patterns to all the roots as L is a very new >>> instance of a root, either old or new IPv4 address. >>> >>> Incidentally - just how much traffic is this representative of? >>> How many queries came in during the period the data was captured? >>> >>> Thanks for the clarification. >>> >>> regards >>> joe baptista >>> >>> regards >>> joe baptista >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I have already spoken to CAIDA about supplying them with L-root >>>> data for future projects and we will be taking part in their >>>> "day in the life of" project >>>> so you should see L-root included in their future analysis. >>>> >>>> John L. Crain >>>> Chief Technical Officer >>>> I.C.A.N.N. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 27 Nov 2007, at 08:07, Joe Baptista wrote: >>>> >>>>> Phil Regnauld wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer (bortzmeyer) writes: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often >>>>>>> queried at a >>>>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>>>> while this >>>>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>>>> >>>>> I'm posting the comments made to you on the GA/GNSO. Since I >>>>> have pointed out to you there that this data from L.root is >>>>> not very reflective of network traffic. >>>>> >>>>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I cannot find another report about the TLDs most often >>>>>>> queried at a >>>>>>> root name server. Other reports I've seen aggregated data, >>>>>>> while this >>>>>>> small glimpse, however partial, at least *names* the TLDs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It has been said sometimes that dummy (sorry, Karl, >>>>>>> "boutique" TLDs) >>>>>>> were present in requests to the root name servers. This is >>>>>>> clearly >>>>>>> false, all the non-existing TLDs queried are local domains >>>>>>> (such as >>>>>>> Apple's ".local"), leaking through a configuration error. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://blog.icann.org/?p=240 >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for that Stephane. It would look to me like things >>>>>> are getting better. This root where the data originates >>>>>> seems to get less errors then that reported in 2003 which >>>>>> data mainly came from f.root. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thats a significant improvement however after careful >>>>>> inspection we begin to see the flaws in this data. If this >>>>>> were f.root data then I would be very impressed. Because the >>>>>> data would show a significant decrease in error traffic. >>>>>> That would be amazing. In fact the data looks alot like that >>>>>> I have seen for public roots I have setup. Like the one now >>>>>> used in Turkey. >>>>>> >>>>>> However this is data from the L.root run by ICANN and i'm not >>>>>> so amazed anymore. I speculate this is just a little bit of >>>>>> ICANN nonsense designed to once again mislead the public. >>>>>> Shame. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now the problem as I see it here is that this data is very >>>>>> limited in scope. I don't dispute the first chart on popular >>>>>> TLDs. What i'm interested to see are the popular TLDs that >>>>>> result in errors (NXDOMAIN) as per the original 2003 report >>>>>> methodology. >>>>>> >>>>>> Next there is nothing in the data that states the number of >>>>>> queries received at the root servers. Only percentages are >>>>>> used in the metrics. The articles I wrote >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/02/05/ >>>>>> dud_queries_swamp_us_internet/ >>>>>> >>>>>> show us that CAIDA conducted an analysis on 152 million >>>>>> messages. This data was obtained from f.root. f.root is one >>>>>> of the oldest roots on the net while l.root is one of the >>>>>> newest. In fact if as per the ICANN blog this data was >>>>>> collected on November 26 then it would of come from IP >>>>>> 199.7.83.42 that was implemented on 1 November 2007 and >>>>>> replaced the previous IP address of 198.32.64.12. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://l.root-servers.org/ip-change-26nov07.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> The data is unclear if it was collected from 199.7.83.42 or >>>>>> 198.32.64.12. In any case what is certain is that both >>>>>> versions of the L.root run by ICANN are very new and that >>>>>> means the amount of traffic to them would be very low in >>>>>> comparison to f.root - which in my opinion provides a more >>>>>> accurate reflection of traffic patterns on the net. >>>>>> >>>>>> So in conclusion is this data in any way reflective of the >>>>>> impact of Karl, "boutique" TLDs? The answer in this case >>>>>> would be NO. It is however reflective of the data one would >>>>>> associate with a recently launched root server that few >>>>>> people are yet dependent on. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hope my comments help you interpret the data. >>>>>> >>>>>> kindest regards >>>>>> joe baptista >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >>>>> PublicRoot Consortium >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >>>>> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >>>>> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> DNSOP mailing list >>>>> DNSOP@ietf.org >>>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >>> PublicRoot Consortium >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >>> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >>> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> DNSOP mailing list >> DNSOP@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >> >> > > > -- > Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org > PublicRoot Consortium > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, > Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 > Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From KristiekathyHurd@foundationmpls.com Tue Nov 27 18:05:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix9Ua-0000Tv-JR for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:05:24 -0500 Received: from 82-42-234-77.cable.ubr11.live.blueyonder.co.uk ([82.42.234.77] helo=user1c15b145ce) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ix9Ua-00050O-2H for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:05:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host32192847.foundationmpls.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id GwJiNWrM94.323868.bNy.bXM.0620001571371 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:05:10 +0000 Message-ID: <4f6001c83149$fd94a510$4dea2a52@user1c15b145ce> From: "Lela Dumas" To: Subject: Your order approved Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:05:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_4F5C_01C83149.FD94A510" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_4F5C_01C83149.FD94A510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_4F5C_01C83149.FD94A510-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 18:47:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxA8s-0007Qn-EP; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:47:02 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxA8q-0007QS-Qb for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:47:00 -0500 Received: from vgateway.libertyrms.info ([207.219.45.62] helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxA8q-0003Vb-3M for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:47:00 -0500 Received: from briand-vpn.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.7.90]) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1IxA8o-0007s0-Kp; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:46:58 -0500 Message-ID: <474CAC6D.9060702@ca.afilias.info> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:46:53 -0500 From: Brian Dickson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> In-Reply-To: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: briand@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, Edward Lewis X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:05:55PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > >> At 6:25 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: >> >> >>> then we have a small issue... you as zone admin, can't >>> dictate which IP's i must use on my machines, since you don't >>> control my connectivity. as zone admin, your job is to >>> provide accurate mapping betwn lable and address ... the >>> extent of your influence is over the lables used, not their >>> IP addresses. >>> >> It is the prerogative of you to do what it takes to get your machine >> to function correctly. It's the prerogative of the zone admin to >> include (or not) your machine in the NS set. >> >> A zone admin ought to be aware of what the state of the slave servers >> are. (That's my main point.) There are minor tweaks, like IP >> addresses, and then there are major tweaks, like letting the domain >> lapse. A responsible zone admin would be up to date on what the >> slave server admins are up to. So, in this case, when the slave >> server changes IP addresses, this goes to the zone admin, who would >> then have to update the IP addresses registered. >> > > a concrete example: > > i have a zone, example.org and chose the following > nameservers: > > moe.rice.edu > ns.isi.edu > PDC.example.org > > as the admin of PDC.example.org, I know what IP addresses > are assigned and can change them on whim. However, It is > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. > Kind of, and maybe. Basically, glue is necessary only because NS records are allowed to be FQDNs instead of just IP addresses. (This is so that fewer NS records need to be updated when a nameserver changes IP address(es).) And that glue is needed only, strictly speaking, when the NS FQDN is a subordinate of the (parent) zone. (Any NS whose FQDN isn't subordinate, is "out of zone data", and shouldn't be kept as glue in the zone.) Sometimes the glue isn't really necessary, if the FQDN of the NS is served by zone whose own NS records don't need glue, e.g. are served by entirely out-of-zone name servers. (But that leads potentially to a name-server race condition, which operators should know to avoid. Having example.net use ns.example.org as its NS, and having example.org use ns.example.net as *its* NS, is bad form.) In the example above, moe.rice.edu and ns.isi.edu are outside of the '.org' zone, and their IP should neither be accepted nor kept. If, on the other hand, the nameservers were PDC.example.org, and FOO.other-example.org, then: - the IP for FOO may already exist, if it is a nameserver for other-example.org - even if FOO is not a nameserver for other-example.org, it might be in future. So, capturing its IP *might* make sense. But, even if it exists, it isn't authoritative, so likely won't (or shouldn't) be used. Which means, unless it comes to pass that other-example.org uses FOO.other-example.org as their nameserver, the presence or absence of quote-glue-unquote for FOO is irrelevant and annoying. And if/when other-example.org adds FOO as their nameserver, they really do need to provide the IP, at which time the registrar should require the IP, and the registry operator should accept it as authoritative. (Whether the things pointed to by the NS records are serving the zone is a whole other kettle of fish. Lame fish at that.) Brian _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 27 18:47:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxA8s-0007Qn-EP; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:47:02 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxA8q-0007QS-Qb for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:47:00 -0500 Received: from vgateway.libertyrms.info ([207.219.45.62] helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxA8q-0003Vb-3M for dnsop@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:47:00 -0500 Received: from briand-vpn.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.7.90]) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1IxA8o-0007s0-Kp; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:46:58 -0500 Message-ID: <474CAC6D.9060702@ca.afilias.info> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:46:53 -0500 From: Brian Dickson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> In-Reply-To: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: briand@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, Edward Lewis X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:05:55PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > >> At 6:25 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: >> >> >>> then we have a small issue... you as zone admin, can't >>> dictate which IP's i must use on my machines, since you don't >>> control my connectivity. as zone admin, your job is to >>> provide accurate mapping betwn lable and address ... the >>> extent of your influence is over the lables used, not their >>> IP addresses. >>> >> It is the prerogative of you to do what it takes to get your machine >> to function correctly. It's the prerogative of the zone admin to >> include (or not) your machine in the NS set. >> >> A zone admin ought to be aware of what the state of the slave servers >> are. (That's my main point.) There are minor tweaks, like IP >> addresses, and then there are major tweaks, like letting the domain >> lapse. A responsible zone admin would be up to date on what the >> slave server admins are up to. So, in this case, when the slave >> server changes IP addresses, this goes to the zone admin, who would >> then have to update the IP addresses registered. >> > > a concrete example: > > i have a zone, example.org and chose the following > nameservers: > > moe.rice.edu > ns.isi.edu > PDC.example.org > > as the admin of PDC.example.org, I know what IP addresses > are assigned and can change them on whim. However, It is > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. > Kind of, and maybe. Basically, glue is necessary only because NS records are allowed to be FQDNs instead of just IP addresses. (This is so that fewer NS records need to be updated when a nameserver changes IP address(es).) And that glue is needed only, strictly speaking, when the NS FQDN is a subordinate of the (parent) zone. (Any NS whose FQDN isn't subordinate, is "out of zone data", and shouldn't be kept as glue in the zone.) Sometimes the glue isn't really necessary, if the FQDN of the NS is served by zone whose own NS records don't need glue, e.g. are served by entirely out-of-zone name servers. (But that leads potentially to a name-server race condition, which operators should know to avoid. Having example.net use ns.example.org as its NS, and having example.org use ns.example.net as *its* NS, is bad form.) In the example above, moe.rice.edu and ns.isi.edu are outside of the '.org' zone, and their IP should neither be accepted nor kept. If, on the other hand, the nameservers were PDC.example.org, and FOO.other-example.org, then: - the IP for FOO may already exist, if it is a nameserver for other-example.org - even if FOO is not a nameserver for other-example.org, it might be in future. So, capturing its IP *might* make sense. But, even if it exists, it isn't authoritative, so likely won't (or shouldn't) be used. Which means, unless it comes to pass that other-example.org uses FOO.other-example.org as their nameserver, the presence or absence of quote-glue-unquote for FOO is irrelevant and annoying. And if/when other-example.org adds FOO as their nameserver, they really do need to provide the IP, at which time the registrar should require the IP, and the registry operator should accept it as authoritative. (Whether the things pointed to by the NS records are serving the zone is a whole other kettle of fish. Lame fish at that.) Brian _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 03:38:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxIQk-0001un-3B; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:38:02 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxIQc-0001qh-Ng for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:37:54 -0500 Received: from gw.sidn.nl ([193.176.144.134]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxIQb-0002QJ-SX for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:37:54 -0500 Received: from gw.sidn.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.sidn.nl (TUNIX/Firewall Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECEF43B9E1 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:37:52 +0100 (CET) Received: by gw.sidn.nl (TUNIX/Firewall Mail Server) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:37:52 +0100 (CET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name serversduring a delegation? Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:37:52 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name serversduring a delegation? Thread-Index: AcgxPrcRLDJsAb2tQM2oRKsLTx1cpAAVyIUw From: "Antoin Verschuren" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: >=20 > but its not example.orgs call if ns.isi.edu changed its ip > address to 127.0.3.12... is it? that would be the call of the > admin for ns.isi.edu.=20 >=20 > and if there were no contact information on that nameserver in > the form of a HOST record in the whois or comments (w/ glue) in > the DNS, then debugging an apparent problem is going to be much > harder. one could ask if its a service that the .org registry > is willing to offer on behalf of its clients and the Internet > community,=20 This mistake in direction of authority is made time after time when = we're discussing glue. We're all trying to see the DNS from top to bottom. And we try to fit glue into that model. Now when for delegations, the authority is indeed distributed from top = to bottom: Root->TLD->zone->host For glue, the direction is diffent: Host->zone->TLD->root So if a host admin wants to change his glue, he has to contact his = parent, in this case the zone admin. So I aggree with Ed, It's the zone admin that deals with the TLD when = the glue needs to be changed. He's the "administrative" owner of the in zone glue record with the TLD = because he accepted that task when he became te zone owner. In the cases where the host is used out of zone, no glue is nessecary, = so no incentive is needed from the host's parent. Changing the host's NS set then is a simple bilateral agreement between = host owner and zone owner. The TLD is not involved, and should not be = administrating IP addresses for these hosts. In cases where glue is nessecary, the zone admin has an incentive to = contact his parent to change the glue, otherwise his zone doesn't work. =20 In the .nl registry system we only need glue for ns1.example.nl if it's = in the NS set of example.nl. The only one that can change the delegation of example.nl is that zone's = owner. Other ***.example.nl hosts which are not in the NS set of example.nl do = not need glue. Only if example.nl changes it's delegation, and a new ***.example.nl is = added to the NS set, we ask for the IP and add glue. Antoin Verschuren Technical Policy Advisor SIDN Utrechtseweg 310 PO Box 5022 6802 EA Arnhem The Netherlands T +31 26 3525500 F +31 26 3525505 M +31 6 23368970 E antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl W http://www.sidn.nl/ _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 03:38:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxIQk-0001un-3B; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:38:02 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxIQc-0001qh-Ng for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:37:54 -0500 Received: from gw.sidn.nl ([193.176.144.134]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxIQb-0002QJ-SX for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:37:54 -0500 Received: from gw.sidn.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.sidn.nl (TUNIX/Firewall Mail Server) with ESMTP id ECEF43B9E1 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:37:52 +0100 (CET) Received: by gw.sidn.nl (TUNIX/Firewall Mail Server) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:37:52 +0100 (CET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name serversduring a delegation? Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:37:52 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name serversduring a delegation? Thread-Index: AcgxPrcRLDJsAb2tQM2oRKsLTx1cpAAVyIUw From: "Antoin Verschuren" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: >=20 > but its not example.orgs call if ns.isi.edu changed its ip > address to 127.0.3.12... is it? that would be the call of the > admin for ns.isi.edu.=20 >=20 > and if there were no contact information on that nameserver in > the form of a HOST record in the whois or comments (w/ glue) in > the DNS, then debugging an apparent problem is going to be much > harder. one could ask if its a service that the .org registry > is willing to offer on behalf of its clients and the Internet > community,=20 This mistake in direction of authority is made time after time when = we're discussing glue. We're all trying to see the DNS from top to bottom. And we try to fit glue into that model. Now when for delegations, the authority is indeed distributed from top = to bottom: Root->TLD->zone->host For glue, the direction is diffent: Host->zone->TLD->root So if a host admin wants to change his glue, he has to contact his = parent, in this case the zone admin. So I aggree with Ed, It's the zone admin that deals with the TLD when = the glue needs to be changed. He's the "administrative" owner of the in zone glue record with the TLD = because he accepted that task when he became te zone owner. In the cases where the host is used out of zone, no glue is nessecary, = so no incentive is needed from the host's parent. Changing the host's NS set then is a simple bilateral agreement between = host owner and zone owner. The TLD is not involved, and should not be = administrating IP addresses for these hosts. In cases where glue is nessecary, the zone admin has an incentive to = contact his parent to change the glue, otherwise his zone doesn't work. =20 In the .nl registry system we only need glue for ns1.example.nl if it's = in the NS set of example.nl. The only one that can change the delegation of example.nl is that zone's = owner. Other ***.example.nl hosts which are not in the NS set of example.nl do = not need glue. Only if example.nl changes it's delegation, and a new ***.example.nl is = added to the NS set, we ask for the IP and add glue. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_17D0B_01C8319B.8A2EE480-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 04:32:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJGs-0005Gh-BD; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:31:54 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJGr-0005Gc-Pj for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:31:53 -0500 Received: from mx.isc.org ([2001:4f8:0:2::1c]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJGr-0001fz-1G for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:31:53 -0500 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B352A11406C for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:31:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4828EE6068 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:31:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lAS96gfG065397; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:06:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200711280906.lAS96gfG065397@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: "Antoin Verschuren" From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name serversduring a delegation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:37:52 BST." Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:06:42 +1100 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org > bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > >=20 > > but its not example.orgs call if ns.isi.edu changed its ip > > address to 127.0.3.12... is it? that would be the call of the > > admin for ns.isi.edu.=20 > >=20 > > and if there were no contact information on that nameserver in > > the form of a HOST record in the whois or comments (w/ glue) in > > the DNS, then debugging an apparent problem is going to be much > > harder. one could ask if its a service that the .org registry > > is willing to offer on behalf of its clients and the Internet > > community,=20 > > This mistake in direction of authority is made time after time when = > we're discussing glue. > We're all trying to see the DNS from top to bottom. > And we try to fit glue into that model. > > Now when for delegations, the authority is indeed distributed from top = > to bottom: > Root->TLD->zone->host > > For glue, the direction is diffent: > Host->zone->TLD->root > > So if a host admin wants to change his glue, he has to contact his = > parent, in this case the zone admin. > So I aggree with Ed, It's the zone admin that deals with the TLD when = > the glue needs to be changed. > He's the "administrative" owner of the in zone glue record with the TLD = > because he accepted that task when he became te zone owner. > > In the cases where the host is used out of zone, no glue is nessecary, = > so no incentive is needed from the host's parent. > Changing the host's NS set then is a simple bilateral agreement between = > host owner and zone owner. The TLD is not involved, and should not be = > administrating IP addresses for these hosts. Which unfortunately is a common misconception. Glue is ANY address record that is required to avoid a deadlock in the resolution process. When the nameserver lives in the zone being delegated you always have a deadlock in the resolution process. When a nameserver lives in a sibling zone you sometimes have a deadlock. When the name is outside of the parent zone you seldom have a deadlock in the resolution process. If nameservers all serve the zone that live in, you can avoid deadlocks in the later two cases as the requisite glue records will be in the parent (including grand parents) zones. If you disallow the last case, all glue will be in parent (including grand parents) zones only. This is managable from the point of view of finding and removing bad glue as there is a fixed list of potential zones to examine and update. BIND enforces this case in code. > In cases where glue is nessecary, the zone admin has an incentive to = > contact his parent to change the glue, otherwise his zone doesn't work. > =20 > In the .nl registry system we only need glue for ns1.example.nl if it's = > in the NS set of example.nl. > The only one that can change the delegation of example.nl is that zone's = > owner. > Other ***.example.nl hosts which are not in the NS set of example.nl do = > not need glue. > Only if example.nl changes it's delegation, and a new ***.example.nl is = > added to the NS set, we ask for the IP and add glue. > > > Antoin Verschuren > > Technical Policy Advisor > SIDN > Utrechtseweg 310 > PO Box 5022 > 6802 EA Arnhem > The Netherlands > > T +31 26 3525500 > F +31 26 3525505 > M +31 6 23368970 > E antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl > W http://www.sidn.nl/ > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 04:32:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJGs-0005Gh-BD; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:31:54 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJGr-0005Gc-Pj for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:31:53 -0500 Received: from mx.isc.org ([2001:4f8:0:2::1c]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJGr-0001fz-1G for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:31:53 -0500 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B352A11406C for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:31:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4828EE6068 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:31:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lAS96gfG065397; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:06:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200711280906.lAS96gfG065397@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: "Antoin Verschuren" From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name serversduring a delegation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:37:52 BST." Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:06:42 +1100 X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org > bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > >=20 > > but its not example.orgs call if ns.isi.edu changed its ip > > address to 127.0.3.12... is it? that would be the call of the > > admin for ns.isi.edu.=20 > >=20 > > and if there were no contact information on that nameserver in > > the form of a HOST record in the whois or comments (w/ glue) in > > the DNS, then debugging an apparent problem is going to be much > > harder. one could ask if its a service that the .org registry > > is willing to offer on behalf of its clients and the Internet > > community,=20 > > This mistake in direction of authority is made time after time when = > we're discussing glue. > We're all trying to see the DNS from top to bottom. > And we try to fit glue into that model. > > Now when for delegations, the authority is indeed distributed from top = > to bottom: > Root->TLD->zone->host > > For glue, the direction is diffent: > Host->zone->TLD->root > > So if a host admin wants to change his glue, he has to contact his = > parent, in this case the zone admin. > So I aggree with Ed, It's the zone admin that deals with the TLD when = > the glue needs to be changed. > He's the "administrative" owner of the in zone glue record with the TLD = > because he accepted that task when he became te zone owner. > > In the cases where the host is used out of zone, no glue is nessecary, = > so no incentive is needed from the host's parent. > Changing the host's NS set then is a simple bilateral agreement between = > host owner and zone owner. The TLD is not involved, and should not be = > administrating IP addresses for these hosts. Which unfortunately is a common misconception. Glue is ANY address record that is required to avoid a deadlock in the resolution process. When the nameserver lives in the zone being delegated you always have a deadlock in the resolution process. When a nameserver lives in a sibling zone you sometimes have a deadlock. When the name is outside of the parent zone you seldom have a deadlock in the resolution process. If nameservers all serve the zone that live in, you can avoid deadlocks in the later two cases as the requisite glue records will be in the parent (including grand parents) zones. If you disallow the last case, all glue will be in parent (including grand parents) zones only. This is managable from the point of view of finding and removing bad glue as there is a fixed list of potential zones to examine and update. BIND enforces this case in code. > In cases where glue is nessecary, the zone admin has an incentive to = > contact his parent to change the glue, otherwise his zone doesn't work. > =20 > In the .nl registry system we only need glue for ns1.example.nl if it's = > in the NS set of example.nl. > The only one that can change the delegation of example.nl is that zone's = > owner. > Other ***.example.nl hosts which are not in the NS set of example.nl do = > not need glue. > Only if example.nl changes it's delegation, and a new ***.example.nl is = > added to the NS set, we ask for the IP and add glue. > > > Antoin Verschuren > > Technical Policy Advisor > SIDN > Utrechtseweg 310 > PO Box 5022 > 6802 EA Arnhem > The Netherlands > > T +31 26 3525500 > F +31 26 3525505 > M +31 6 23368970 > E antoin.verschuren@sidn.nl > W http://www.sidn.nl/ > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From Stamper@quranbrowser.org Wed Nov 28 04:35:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJKW-0001sh-G1 for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:35:40 -0500 Received: from [209.34.242.230] (helo=[209.34.242.230]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJKV-0005yB-TW for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:35:40 -0500 Received: from 37m8391 ([104.196.63.120] helo=37m8391) by [209.34.242.230] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1FkNxw-000YFV-oO for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:35:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c831a2$08eafce0$e6f222d1@37m8391> From: "ILIJA Stamper" To: Subject: anavatio Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:35:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C83178.2014F4E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C83178.2014F4E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good night dnsop-archive saving men's life since 1990. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C83178.2014F4E0-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 04:55:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJdm-0001w4-HK; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:55:34 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJdk-0001vw-TW for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:55:32 -0500 Received: from fw-d-whp.denic.de ([81.91.160.27] helo=denic.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJdk-0006zc-JW for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:55:32 -0500 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6A78D5871F1; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:35:29PM -0800, John Crain wrote: > Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly > > So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? -Peter _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 04:55:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJdm-0001w4-HK; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:55:34 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJdk-0001vw-TW for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:55:32 -0500 Received: from fw-d-whp.denic.de ([81.91.160.27] helo=denic.de) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJdk-0006zc-JW for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:55:32 -0500 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6A78D5871F1; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:35:29PM -0800, John Crain wrote: > Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly > > So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? -Peter _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 05:12:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJtl-0000fr-FT; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:12:05 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJtj-0000fe-Li for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:12:03 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJtj-00087n-B6 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:12:03 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id DCD901C0124; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:12:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7DC11C0120; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:12:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F0558ECCD; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:12:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:12:02 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Peter Koch Message-ID: <20071128101202.GA24731@nic.fr> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-5-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: [DNSOP] Re: L-Root address change (Was: AS112 for TLDs X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 10:55:44AM +0100, Peter Koch wrote a message of 16 lines which said: > part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was > actually supposed to accelerate the migration. Do all resolvers actually perform priming? BIND does but the others? _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 05:12:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJtl-0000fr-FT; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:12:05 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJtj-0000fe-Li for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:12:03 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxJtj-00087n-B6 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:12:03 -0500 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id DCD901C0124; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:12:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7DC11C0120; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:12:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F0558ECCD; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:12:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:12:02 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Peter Koch Message-ID: <20071128101202.GA24731@nic.fr> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-5-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: [DNSOP] Re: L-Root address change (Was: AS112 for TLDs X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 10:55:44AM +0100, Peter Koch wrote a message of 16 lines which said: > part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was > actually supposed to accelerate the migration. Do all resolvers actually perform priming? BIND does but the others? _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 06:19:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxKwi-00069u-NA; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:19:12 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxKwh-00069i-MD for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:19:11 -0500 Received: from outpost.ds9a.nl ([213.244.168.210]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxKwg-0003jr-Ui for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:19:11 -0500 Received: by outpost.ds9a.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 54F45450C; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:19:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:19:08 +0100 From: bert hubert To: Peter Koch Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128111908.GA3622@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mail-Followup-To: bert hubert , Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 10:55:44AM +0100, Peter Koch wrote: > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:35:29PM -0800, John Crain wrote: > > > Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly > > > > So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( > > part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was > actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic > seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? There is a bug in all current PowerDNS recursor versions where it neglects to erradicate the contents of the hints file from its cache. This means that both the old and the new IP address of l.root-servers.net will continue to be used, until the hints file expires from the cache, which is sadly only after 40 days of uptime. I apologise for this bug, and promise that a fixed PowerDNS recursor will be released swiftly. However, I don't think 40% of the world is running the PowerDNS Recursor, so there must be something else to blame, as well. Bert -- http://www.PowerDNS.com Open source, database driven DNS Software http://netherlabs.nl Open and Closed source services _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 06:19:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxKwi-00069u-NA; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:19:12 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxKwh-00069i-MD for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:19:11 -0500 Received: from outpost.ds9a.nl ([213.244.168.210]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxKwg-0003jr-Ui for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:19:11 -0500 Received: by outpost.ds9a.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 54F45450C; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:19:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:19:08 +0100 From: bert hubert To: Peter Koch Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128111908.GA3622@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mail-Followup-To: bert hubert , Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 10:55:44AM +0100, Peter Koch wrote: > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:35:29PM -0800, John Crain wrote: > > > Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly > > > > So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( > > part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was > actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic > seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? There is a bug in all current PowerDNS recursor versions where it neglects to erradicate the contents of the hints file from its cache. This means that both the old and the new IP address of l.root-servers.net will continue to be used, until the hints file expires from the cache, which is sadly only after 40 days of uptime. I apologise for this bug, and promise that a fixed PowerDNS recursor will be released swiftly. However, I don't think 40% of the world is running the PowerDNS Recursor, so there must be something else to blame, as well. Bert -- http://www.PowerDNS.com Open source, database driven DNS Software http://netherlabs.nl Open and Closed source services _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 06:41:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLIX-0007cT-54; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:41:45 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLIV-0007aj-LB for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:41:43 -0500 Received: from smtp.lon.server.colt.net ([212.74.77.49] helo=smtp.lon.dcn.colt.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLIU-0000xA-21 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:41:43 -0500 Received: from ritterrost.fra.ws.COLT.NET (quo.fra.dcn.colt.net [10.249.6.129]) by smtp.lon.dcn.colt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 461E560F09; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:41:41 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <5EE1DB69-7D12-4CF5-9B0D-08650D048EFA@eng.colt.net> From: Ralf Weber To: IETF DNSOP WG In-Reply-To: <20071128101202.GA24731@nic.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: L-Root address change (Was: AS112 for TLDs Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:41:40 +0100 References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128101202.GA24731@nic.fr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Moin! On Nov 28, 2007, at 11:12 , Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 10:55:44AM +0100, > Peter Koch wrote > a message of 16 lines which said: > >> part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was >> actually supposed to accelerate the migration. > > Do all resolvers actually perform priming? BIND does but the others? According to http://www.icann.org/committees/security/sac017.htm most do. But isn't priming only done at startup? And how often do people start there nameservers? This could be the cause. So long -Ralf --- Ralf.Weber@colt.net _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 06:41:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLIX-0007cT-54; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:41:45 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLIV-0007aj-LB for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:41:43 -0500 Received: from smtp.lon.server.colt.net ([212.74.77.49] helo=smtp.lon.dcn.colt.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLIU-0000xA-21 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:41:43 -0500 Received: from ritterrost.fra.ws.COLT.NET (quo.fra.dcn.colt.net [10.249.6.129]) by smtp.lon.dcn.colt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 461E560F09; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:41:41 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <5EE1DB69-7D12-4CF5-9B0D-08650D048EFA@eng.colt.net> From: Ralf Weber To: IETF DNSOP WG In-Reply-To: <20071128101202.GA24731@nic.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Re: L-Root address change (Was: AS112 for TLDs Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:41:40 +0100 References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128101202.GA24731@nic.fr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Moin! On Nov 28, 2007, at 11:12 , Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 10:55:44AM +0100, > Peter Koch wrote > a message of 16 lines which said: > >> part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was >> actually supposed to accelerate the migration. > > Do all resolvers actually perform priming? BIND does but the others? According to http://www.icann.org/committees/security/sac017.htm most do. But isn't priming only done at startup? And how often do people start there nameservers? This could be the cause. So long -Ralf --- Ralf.Weber@colt.net _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 07:09:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLjU-0003PM-Vx; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:09:36 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLjS-0003Nr-OO for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:09:34 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLjS-0002lB-Aj for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:09:34 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lASC9Qrj075582; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:09:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <474CAC6D.9060702@ca.afilias.info> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> <474CAC6D.9060702@ca.afilias.info> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:09:14 -0500 To: dnsop@ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org The issue of collecting IP address for name servers in the context of the APWG draft is not about glue. The issue is not glue but actions taken to thwart malicious activity. At 6:46 PM -0500 11/27/07, Brian Dickson wrote: >And that glue is needed only, strictly speaking, when the NS FQDN is a >subordinate of the (parent) zone. "Strictly speaking" is incorrect in the above sentence, "generally speaking" is more appropriate. >Sometimes the glue isn't really necessary, if the FQDN of the NS is served >by zone whose own NS records don't need glue, e.g. are served by entirely >out-of-zone name servers. And that is what I suggest s/strictly/generally/, it seems we understand this so I don't think we need any lectures on glue here. Especially as that is not the focus of the suggestion to collect IP addresses. >So, capturing its IP *might* make sense. But, even if it exists, it isn't >authoritative, so likely won't (or shouldn't) be used. What I think is happening in this thread is that a suggestion has been made in a registry forum (ICANN/APWG) that has a brush with DNS and we have tried to make it a DNS matter. It's not a DNS matter, it's the collection of data related to DNS that is not intended to be in the DNS, no more so that the telephone number of the billing contact for the name. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 07:09:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLjU-0003PM-Vx; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:09:36 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLjS-0003Nr-OO for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:09:34 -0500 Received: from hlid.ogud.com ([66.92.146.160] helo=ogud.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxLjS-0002lB-Aj for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:09:34 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lASC9Qrj075582; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:09:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <474CAC6D.9060702@ca.afilias.info> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> <474CAC6D.9060702@ca.afilias.info> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:09:14 -0500 To: dnsop@ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org The issue of collecting IP address for name servers in the context of the APWG draft is not about glue. The issue is not glue but actions taken to thwart malicious activity. At 6:46 PM -0500 11/27/07, Brian Dickson wrote: >And that glue is needed only, strictly speaking, when the NS FQDN is a >subordinate of the (parent) zone. "Strictly speaking" is incorrect in the above sentence, "generally speaking" is more appropriate. >Sometimes the glue isn't really necessary, if the FQDN of the NS is served >by zone whose own NS records don't need glue, e.g. are served by entirely >out-of-zone name servers. And that is what I suggest s/strictly/generally/, it seems we understand this so I don't think we need any lectures on glue here. Especially as that is not the focus of the suggestion to collect IP addresses. >So, capturing its IP *might* make sense. But, even if it exists, it isn't >authoritative, so likely won't (or shouldn't) be used. What I think is happening in this thread is that a suggestion has been made in a registry forum (ICANN/APWG) that has a brush with DNS and we have tried to make it a DNS matter. It's not a DNS matter, it's the collection of data related to DNS that is not intended to be in the DNS, no more so that the telephone number of the billing contact for the name. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 08:07:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMdO-0006gZ-Qs; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:07:22 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMdN-0006g3-AG for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:07:21 -0500 Received: from clone.registro.br ([2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMdI-000780-Fm for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:07:21 -0500 Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 23F4F95889; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:07:14 -0200 (BRST) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:07:14 -0200 From: Frederico A C Neves To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071128130714.GM62862@registro.br> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Bill, On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 08:57:13PM +0000, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:05:55PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > > At 6:25 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > > > > then we have a small issue... you as zone admin, can't > > > dictate which IP's i must use on my machines, since you don't > > > control my connectivity. as zone admin, your job is to > > > provide accurate mapping betwn lable and address ... the > > > extent of your influence is over the lables used, not their > > > IP addresses. > > > > Since we are getting into pronouns, let's clarify what the roles are. > > At least these are what I think we are talking about. > > > > Zone admin = the registrant of the domain owning the NS set. > > You ("I" above) = the dude that has the root password to a machine > > that is mentioned in the NS set. > > > > (As opposed to zone admin being the registry that the data is going in to.) > > > > It is the prerogative of you to do what it takes to get your machine > > to function correctly. It's the prerogative of the zone admin to > > include (or not) your machine in the NS set. > > > > A zone admin ought to be aware of what the state of the slave servers > > are. (That's my main point.) There are minor tweaks, like IP > > addresses, and then there are major tweaks, like letting the domain > > lapse. A responsible zone admin would be up to date on what the > > slave server admins are up to. So, in this case, when the slave > > server changes IP addresses, this goes to the zone admin, who would > > then have to update the IP addresses registered. > > a concrete example: > > i have a zone, example.org and chose the following > nameservers: > > moe.rice.edu > ns.isi.edu > PDC.example.org Responsible registry admins would KISS, this is the view of what I think one of them should do. > as the admin of PDC.example.org, I know what IP addresses > are assigned and can change them on whim. However, It is > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu So at delegation time it'll mandate you to inform the glue record and will check it for authority on example.org. > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. > as the admin for example.org, I clearly have the right to > choose/select nameservers for my delegation that meet my > needs. Now the poor .org admin - he has to beleive me when > i tell him what nameservers will be authoritative for example.org. > and its prolly prudent for him to contact the admins of > ns.isi.edu and moe.rice.edu to collect the correct IP addresses > for those nodes... If I was the poor sod responsible for > .org, It'll just use plain old A resolution for these two names, will query them for authority on example.org. > I would not really beleive that the moron holding example.org > had done his homework and actually -KNEW- what the IP addresses > were for these nodes or was in a position to keep that data > current. but that would be me. Responsible registry admins in your example would just collect glue for PDC.example.org and will not accept delegation or a change on it if any of the 3 DNS authority checks failed. For the .org registry admin there is no need to collect or know who is the admin and what are the addresses of moe.rice.edu and ns.isi.edu, let the plain old DNS does its magic. Fred ps, btw this simple and functional policy is valid for any zone, including the root ! _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 08:07:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMdO-0006gZ-Qs; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:07:22 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMdN-0006g3-AG for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:07:21 -0500 Received: from clone.registro.br ([2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMdI-000780-Fm for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:07:21 -0500 Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 23F4F95889; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:07:14 -0200 (BRST) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:07:14 -0200 From: Frederico A C Neves To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name servers during a delegation? Message-ID: <20071128130714.GM62862@registro.br> References: <20071109135811.GC6701@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <20071127170756.GL6032@afilias.info> <20071127175902.GA27628@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127182521.GB27919@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071127205713.GA29128@vacation.karoshi.com.> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Bill, On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 08:57:13PM +0000, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:05:55PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > > At 6:25 PM +0000 11/27/07, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > > > > then we have a small issue... you as zone admin, can't > > > dictate which IP's i must use on my machines, since you don't > > > control my connectivity. as zone admin, your job is to > > > provide accurate mapping betwn lable and address ... the > > > extent of your influence is over the lables used, not their > > > IP addresses. > > > > Since we are getting into pronouns, let's clarify what the roles are. > > At least these are what I think we are talking about. > > > > Zone admin = the registrant of the domain owning the NS set. > > You ("I" above) = the dude that has the root password to a machine > > that is mentioned in the NS set. > > > > (As opposed to zone admin being the registry that the data is going in to.) > > > > It is the prerogative of you to do what it takes to get your machine > > to function correctly. It's the prerogative of the zone admin to > > include (or not) your machine in the NS set. > > > > A zone admin ought to be aware of what the state of the slave servers > > are. (That's my main point.) There are minor tweaks, like IP > > addresses, and then there are major tweaks, like letting the domain > > lapse. A responsible zone admin would be up to date on what the > > slave server admins are up to. So, in this case, when the slave > > server changes IP addresses, this goes to the zone admin, who would > > then have to update the IP addresses registered. > > a concrete example: > > i have a zone, example.org and chose the following > nameservers: > > moe.rice.edu > ns.isi.edu > PDC.example.org Responsible registry admins would KISS, this is the view of what I think one of them should do. > as the admin of PDC.example.org, I know what IP addresses > are assigned and can change them on whim. However, It is > the Height of Arrogance to presume I can tell the rice.edu So at delegation time it'll mandate you to inform the glue record and will check it for authority on example.org. > or isi.edu people what IP addresses to use on their machines. > as the admin for example.org, I clearly have the right to > choose/select nameservers for my delegation that meet my > needs. Now the poor .org admin - he has to beleive me when > i tell him what nameservers will be authoritative for example.org. > and its prolly prudent for him to contact the admins of > ns.isi.edu and moe.rice.edu to collect the correct IP addresses > for those nodes... If I was the poor sod responsible for > .org, It'll just use plain old A resolution for these two names, will query them for authority on example.org. > I would not really beleive that the moron holding example.org > had done his homework and actually -KNEW- what the IP addresses > were for these nodes or was in a position to keep that data > current. but that would be me. Responsible registry admins in your example would just collect glue for PDC.example.org and will not accept delegation or a change on it if any of the 3 DNS authority checks failed. For the .org registry admin there is no need to collect or know who is the admin and what are the addresses of moe.rice.edu and ns.isi.edu, let the plain old DNS does its magic. Fred ps, btw this simple and functional policy is valid for any zone, including the root ! _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 08:16:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMlk-0006W9-VU; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:16:00 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMlj-0006Vc-CD for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:15:59 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMlh-0007lV-6T for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:15:58 -0500 Received: from [67.71.125.200] (helo=[192.168.199.112]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IxMle-0008qG-LL; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:15:55 +0000 Message-Id: From: Joe Abley To: Paul Vixie In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:15:51 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On 27-Nov-2007, at 10:23, Paul Vixie wrote: > warren@kumari.net (Warren Kumari) writes: > >> ... What do people think about setting up a legal entity called RSTOA >> that would then perform some very simple checks before handing out >> a LOA? > > RSTOA is an existing unincorporated association. you can ask it to > do this > kind of thing. just find any root name server operator and make > your case. > (a convenient list of same can be found at >.) So, would it be possible for one or more of the root server operators to prepare a generic-yet-official-looking LOA on suitable "letterhead" and perhaps stash it on www.root-servers.org somewhere? Such an LOA would probably be less remarkable to your average transit provider; the response to "here's a signed LOA as a PDF" is certainly likely to be more useful in practice than "here's an un-signed ASCII text file filled with legal boilerplate which really is an LOA, honest". I can suggest the kind of text I think is needed off-line if that seems useful. [I copy the list on this so that it doesn't appear that the thread ended over-abruptly in the archive.] Joe _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 08:16:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMlk-0006W9-VU; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:16:00 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMlj-0006Vc-CD for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:15:59 -0500 Received: from monster.hopcount.ca ([199.212.90.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxMlh-0007lV-6T for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:15:58 -0500 Received: from [67.71.125.200] (helo=[192.168.199.112]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IxMle-0008qG-LL; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:15:55 +0000 Message-Id: From: Joe Abley To: Paul Vixie In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:15:51 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On 27-Nov-2007, at 10:23, Paul Vixie wrote: > warren@kumari.net (Warren Kumari) writes: > >> ... What do people think about setting up a legal entity called RSTOA >> that would then perform some very simple checks before handing out >> a LOA? > > RSTOA is an existing unincorporated association. you can ask it to > do this > kind of thing. just find any root name server operator and make > your case. > (a convenient list of same can be found at >.) So, would it be possible for one or more of the root server operators to prepare a generic-yet-official-looking LOA on suitable "letterhead" and perhaps stash it on www.root-servers.org somewhere? Such an LOA would probably be less remarkable to your average transit provider; the response to "here's a signed LOA as a PDF" is certainly likely to be more useful in practice than "here's an un-signed ASCII text file filled with legal boilerplate which really is an LOA, honest". I can suggest the kind of text I think is needed off-line if that seems useful. [I copy the list on this so that it doesn't appear that the thread ended over-abruptly in the archive.] Joe _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 10:58:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPIp-0000hR-5g; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:19 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPIo-0000hK-Ma for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:18 -0500 Received: from cliffie.verisignlabs.com ([65.201.175.9]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPIo-0007a8-Cr for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:18 -0500 Received: from monsoon.verisignlabs.com (scooter.bo.verisignlabs.com [172.25.170.10]) by cliffie.verisignlabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6FEA1367A1; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com (dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com [10.131.244.205]) by monsoon.verisignlabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF16A242315; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:17 -0500 From: Matt Larson To: Peter Koch Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Peter Koch wrote: > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:35:29PM -0800, John Crain wrote: > > > Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly > > > > So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( > > part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was > actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic > seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? Why old root server IP addresses recieve so much traffic is a great mystery and has been for several years. We addressed this in 2004 in the "Life and Times of J-root" presentation for NANOG 32: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0410/pdf/kosters.pdf Note that at the time, I fingerprinted the responsive queriers and many were late-model BIND, all of which are known to prime. As I write this, J root's old IP address is receiving 1000 queries per second and that's over five years after we changed its address. Perhaps this is some sort of DNS equivlanet to cosmic background radiation, dating back the beginning of the Internet? Matt _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 10:58:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPIp-0000hR-5g; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:19 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPIo-0000hK-Ma for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:18 -0500 Received: from cliffie.verisignlabs.com ([65.201.175.9]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPIo-0007a8-Cr for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:18 -0500 Received: from monsoon.verisignlabs.com (scooter.bo.verisignlabs.com [172.25.170.10]) by cliffie.verisignlabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6FEA1367A1; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com (dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com [10.131.244.205]) by monsoon.verisignlabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF16A242315; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:17 -0500 From: Matt Larson To: Peter Koch Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Peter Koch wrote: > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:35:29PM -0800, John Crain wrote: > > > Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly > > > > So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( > > part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was > actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic > seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? Why old root server IP addresses recieve so much traffic is a great mystery and has been for several years. We addressed this in 2004 in the "Life and Times of J-root" presentation for NANOG 32: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0410/pdf/kosters.pdf Note that at the time, I fingerprinted the responsive queriers and many were late-model BIND, all of which are known to prime. As I write this, J root's old IP address is receiving 1000 queries per second and that's over five years after we changed its address. Perhaps this is some sort of DNS equivlanet to cosmic background radiation, dating back the beginning of the Internet? 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    ------=_NextPart_000_4568_01C831D7.F1DA3BC0-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:02:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPN0-0004UD-QP; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:02:38 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPMz-0004Sv-9o for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:02:37 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPMy-0008So-PD for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:02:37 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lASG2YsG006509; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:02:35 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lASG2Wjk006508; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:02:32 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:02:32 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Message-ID: <20071128160232.GA6482@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: Paul Vixie , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 08:15:51AM -0500, Joe Abley wrote: > > On 27-Nov-2007, at 10:23, Paul Vixie wrote: > > >warren@kumari.net (Warren Kumari) writes: > > > >>... What do people think about setting up a legal entity called RSTOA > >>that would then perform some very simple checks before handing out > >>a LOA? > > > >RSTOA is an existing unincorporated association. you can ask it to > >do this > >kind of thing. just find any root name server operator and make > >your case. > >(a convenient list of same can be found at >>.) > > So, would it be possible for one or more of the root server operators > to prepare a generic-yet-official-looking LOA on suitable "letterhead" > and perhaps stash it on www.root-servers.org somewhere? > > Such an LOA would probably be less remarkable to your average transit > provider; the response to "here's a signed LOA as a PDF" is certainly > likely to be more useful in practice than "here's an un-signed ASCII > text file filled with legal boilerplate which really is an LOA, honest". > > I can suggest the kind of text I think is needed off-line if that > seems useful. > > [I copy the list on this so that it doesn't appear that the thread > ended over-abruptly in the archive.] > > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop Sure... It should be there shortly. --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:02:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPN0-0004UD-QP; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:02:38 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPMz-0004Sv-9o for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:02:37 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPMy-0008So-PD for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:02:37 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lASG2YsG006509; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:02:35 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lASG2Wjk006508; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:02:32 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:02:32 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Joe Abley Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? Message-ID: <20071128160232.GA6482@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: Paul Vixie , dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 08:15:51AM -0500, Joe Abley wrote: > > On 27-Nov-2007, at 10:23, Paul Vixie wrote: > > >warren@kumari.net (Warren Kumari) writes: > > > >>... What do people think about setting up a legal entity called RSTOA > >>that would then perform some very simple checks before handing out > >>a LOA? > > > >RSTOA is an existing unincorporated association. you can ask it to > >do this > >kind of thing. just find any root name server operator and make > >your case. > >(a convenient list of same can be found at >>.) > > So, would it be possible for one or more of the root server operators > to prepare a generic-yet-official-looking LOA on suitable "letterhead" > and perhaps stash it on www.root-servers.org somewhere? > > Such an LOA would probably be less remarkable to your average transit > provider; the response to "here's a signed LOA as a PDF" is certainly > likely to be more useful in practice than "here's an un-signed ASCII > text file filled with legal boilerplate which really is an LOA, honest". > > I can suggest the kind of text I think is needed off-line if that > seems useful. > > [I copy the list on this so that it doesn't appear that the thread > ended over-abruptly in the archive.] > > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop Sure... It should be there shortly. --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:08:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPSG-0007qV-8j; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:08:04 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPSE-0007ny-Rf for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:08:02 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPSE-00012P-Ao for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:08:02 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lASG7xsG006596; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:07:59 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lASG7xxp006595; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:07:59 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:07:59 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Matt Larson Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Cc: Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 10:58:17AM -0500, Matt Larson wrote: > On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Peter Koch wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:35:29PM -0800, John Crain wrote: > > > > > Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly > > > > > > So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( > > > > part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was > > actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic > > seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? > > Why old root server IP addresses recieve so much traffic is a great > mystery and has been for several years. We addressed this in 2004 in > the "Life and Times of J-root" presentation for NANOG 32: > > http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0410/pdf/kosters.pdf > > Note that at the time, I fingerprinted the responsive queriers and > many were late-model BIND, all of which are known to prime. > > As I write this, J root's old IP address is receiving 1000 queries per > second and that's over five years after we changed its address. > Perhaps this is some sort of DNS equivlanet to cosmic background > radiation, dating back the beginning of the Internet? > > Matt > and perhaps more interesting, the old address for "B" showed a tapering off of traffic and then an INCREASE last year. Old L and J got their numbers less than a decade ago. ... so i would not go back as far as the begining of the Internet. Old B has been around for quite a while longer. --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:08:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPSG-0007qV-8j; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:08:04 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPSE-0007ny-Rf for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:08:02 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPSE-00012P-Ao for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:08:02 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lASG7xsG006596; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:07:59 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lASG7xxp006595; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:07:59 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:07:59 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Matt Larson Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Cc: Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 10:58:17AM -0500, Matt Larson wrote: > On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Peter Koch wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 02:35:29PM -0800, John Crain wrote: > > > > > Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly > > > > > > So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( > > > > part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was > > actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic > > seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? > > Why old root server IP addresses recieve so much traffic is a great > mystery and has been for several years. We addressed this in 2004 in > the "Life and Times of J-root" presentation for NANOG 32: > > http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0410/pdf/kosters.pdf > > Note that at the time, I fingerprinted the responsive queriers and > many were late-model BIND, all of which are known to prime. > > As I write this, J root's old IP address is receiving 1000 queries per > second and that's over five years after we changed its address. > Perhaps this is some sort of DNS equivlanet to cosmic background > radiation, dating back the beginning of the Internet? > > Matt > and perhaps more interesting, the old address for "B" showed a tapering off of traffic and then an INCREASE last year. Old L and J got their numbers less than a decade ago. ... so i would not go back as far as the begining of the Internet. Old B has been around for quite a while longer. --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:16:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPa2-0006h7-Kp; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:16:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPa0-0006gm-DB for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:16:04 -0500 Received: from outpost.ds9a.nl ([213.244.168.210]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPZy-0006zq-QM for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:16:04 -0500 Received: by outpost.ds9a.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B1D703FB3; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:15:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:15:59 +0100 From: bert hubert To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mail-Followup-To: bert hubert , bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Matt Larson , Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG References: <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 04:07:59PM +0000, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > and perhaps more interesting, the old address for "B" > showed a tapering off of traffic and then an INCREASE > last year. Old L and J got their numbers less than a > decade ago. ... so i would not go back as far as the > begining of the Internet. Old B has been around for quite > a while longer. The most likely explanation appears to be a bug like that found in PowerDNS, where the hint-IP address is not removed in favour of more current data. The increase in traffic might easily be due to more favourable connectivity to 'B', which would lead many resolver implementations to shift more queries to it. Bert -- http://www.PowerDNS.com Open source, database driven DNS Software http://netherlabs.nl Open and Closed source services _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:16:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPa2-0006h7-Kp; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:16:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPa0-0006gm-DB for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:16:04 -0500 Received: from outpost.ds9a.nl ([213.244.168.210]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPZy-0006zq-QM for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:16:04 -0500 Received: by outpost.ds9a.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B1D703FB3; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:15:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:15:59 +0100 From: bert hubert To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mail-Followup-To: bert hubert , bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Matt Larson , Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG References: <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 04:07:59PM +0000, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > and perhaps more interesting, the old address for "B" > showed a tapering off of traffic and then an INCREASE > last year. Old L and J got their numbers less than a > decade ago. ... so i would not go back as far as the > begining of the Internet. Old B has been around for quite > a while longer. The most likely explanation appears to be a bug like that found in PowerDNS, where the hint-IP address is not removed in favour of more current data. The increase in traffic might easily be due to more favourable connectivity to 'B', which would lead many resolver implementations to shift more queries to it. Bert -- http://www.PowerDNS.com Open source, database driven DNS Software http://netherlabs.nl Open and Closed source services _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:23:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPhT-0005Uj-Sj; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:23:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPhS-0005UU-6K for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:23:46 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPhP-0008Mc-Ro for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:23:46 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lASGMfsG006715; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:22:41 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lASGMfqg006714; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:22:41 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:22:41 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: bert hubert , bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Matt Larson , Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 05:15:59PM +0100, bert hubert wrote: > On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 04:07:59PM +0000, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > and perhaps more interesting, the old address for "B" > > showed a tapering off of traffic and then an INCREASE > > last year. Old L and J got their numbers less than a > > decade ago. ... so i would not go back as far as the > > begining of the Internet. Old B has been around for quite > > a while longer. > > The increase in traffic might easily be due to more favourable connectivity > to 'B', which would lead many resolver implementations to shift more queries > to it. > > Bert > old "B" topolgy didnt change... :) --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:23:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPhT-0005Uj-Sj; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:23:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPhS-0005UU-6K for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:23:46 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPhP-0008Mc-Ro for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:23:46 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lASGMfsG006715; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:22:41 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lASGMfqg006714; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:22:41 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:22:41 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: bert hubert , bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Matt Larson , Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 05:15:59PM +0100, bert hubert wrote: > On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 04:07:59PM +0000, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > and perhaps more interesting, the old address for "B" > > showed a tapering off of traffic and then an INCREASE > > last year. Old L and J got their numbers less than a > > decade ago. ... so i would not go back as far as the > > begining of the Internet. Old B has been around for quite > > a while longer. > > The increase in traffic might easily be due to more favourable connectivity > to 'B', which would lead many resolver implementations to shift more queries > to it. > > Bert > old "B" topolgy didnt change... :) --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:28:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPmP-00086w-JX; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:28:53 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPmO-0007wx-0i for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:28:52 -0500 Received: from outpost.ds9a.nl ([213.244.168.210]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPmM-0000Xl-En for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:28:51 -0500 Received: by outpost.ds9a.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D683B4514; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:28:47 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:28:47 +0100 From: bert hubert To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128162847.GC11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mail-Followup-To: bert hubert , bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Matt Larson , Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG References: <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 04:22:41PM +0000, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > The increase in traffic might easily be due to more favourable connectivity > > to 'B', which would lead many resolver implementations to shift more queries > > to it. > > > > Bert > > > > old "B" topolgy didnt change... :) Admittedly, you have a far better view of the internet than I do :-) - But I'm not ruling out changes *other* people made to their networks. Also, perhaps the other roots just became less attractive. Bert -- http://www.PowerDNS.com Open source, database driven DNS Software http://netherlabs.nl Open and Closed source services _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:28:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPmP-00086w-JX; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:28:53 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPmO-0007wx-0i for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:28:52 -0500 Received: from outpost.ds9a.nl ([213.244.168.210]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPmM-0000Xl-En for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:28:51 -0500 Received: by outpost.ds9a.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D683B4514; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:28:47 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:28:47 +0100 From: bert hubert To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128162847.GC11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mail-Followup-To: bert hubert , bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Matt Larson , Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG References: <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 04:22:41PM +0000, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > The increase in traffic might easily be due to more favourable connectivity > > to 'B', which would lead many resolver implementations to shift more queries > > to it. > > > > Bert > > > > old "B" topolgy didnt change... :) Admittedly, you have a far better view of the internet than I do :-) - But I'm not ruling out changes *other* people made to their networks. Also, perhaps the other roots just became less attractive. Bert -- http://www.PowerDNS.com Open source, database driven DNS Software http://netherlabs.nl Open and Closed source services _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:35:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPt7-0007kt-EN; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:35:49 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPt6-0007kf-0J for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:35:48 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPt5-0001Ln-JJ for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:35:47 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lASGYjsG006860; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:34:45 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lASGYjEV006859; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:34:45 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:34:45 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: bert hubert , bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Matt Larson , Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: B-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128163445.GA6767@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071128162847.GC11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128162847.GC11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 05:28:47PM +0100, bert hubert wrote: > On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 04:22:41PM +0000, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > > The increase in traffic might easily be due to more favourable connectivity > > > to 'B', which would lead many resolver implementations to shift more queries > > > to it. > > > > > > Bert > > > > > > > old "B" topolgy didnt change... :) > > Admittedly, you have a far better view of the internet than I do :-) - But > I'm not ruling out changes *other* people made to their networks. > > Also, perhaps the other roots just became less attractive. > > Bert > the increase in queries occured after we stopped running a nameserver on the address and more than a year after the public announcement and change in the hints files. not saying other topology change didn't have the effects you describe, it just seems odd. --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 11:35:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPt7-0007kt-EN; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:35:49 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPt6-0007kf-0J for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:35:48 -0500 Received: from vacation.karoshi.com ([198.32.6.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxPt5-0001Ln-JJ for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:35:47 -0500 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id lASGYjsG006860; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:34:45 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id lASGYjEV006859; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:34:45 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:34:45 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: bert hubert , bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Matt Larson , Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: B-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Message-ID: <20071128163445.GA6767@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071128162847.GC11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128162847.GC11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 05:28:47PM +0100, bert hubert wrote: > On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 04:22:41PM +0000, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > > > The increase in traffic might easily be due to more favourable connectivity > > > to 'B', which would lead many resolver implementations to shift more queries > > > to it. > > > > > > Bert > > > > > > > old "B" topolgy didnt change... :) > > Admittedly, you have a far better view of the internet than I do :-) - But > I'm not ruling out changes *other* people made to their networks. > > Also, perhaps the other roots just became less attractive. > > Bert > the increase in queries occured after we stopped running a nameserver on the address and more than a year after the public announcement and change in the hints files. not saying other topology change didn't have the effects you describe, it just seems odd. --bill _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From miller@AGTitle.com Wed Nov 28 12:29:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxQjE-0000Zl-Er for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:29:40 -0500 Received: from [151.35.189.22] (helo=[151.35.189.22]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxQjC-0004F1-Np for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:29:40 -0500 Received: from pv-casa by AGTitle.com with ASMTP id 37A57444 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:31:14 +0100 Received: from pv-casa ([161.135.122.146]) by AGTitle.com with ESMTP id 3EC98C3AF6CF for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:31:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c831e4$6a0535d0$16bd2397@pvcasa> From: "Autumn miller" To: dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: sarcopy Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:30:48 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c831e4$6a0535d0$16bd2397@pvcasa> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0f1ff0b0158b41ac6b9548d0972cdd31 Get your supply today before prices sky rocket http://elcreed.com/ From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 13:46:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRv8-0006cO-AQ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:46:02 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRv6-0006bj-Ao for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:46:00 -0500 Received: from smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([68.142.225.206]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRv6-0005PE-0D for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:46:00 -0500 Received: (qmail 19486 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2007 18:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2007 18:45:59 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: o_SCo.MVM1n8JYKrQHk8ZR_yFRblozDs0Av0NOgNxNAA7gZnVFCzXstydVMpquafZg-- Message-ID: <474DB766.3050608@publicroot.org> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:45:58 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] References: <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> In-Reply-To: <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050302040804040804030500" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Cc: Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG , bert hubert X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050302040804040804030500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > old "B" topolgy didnt change... :) > > hmm. very demure, and i mean that in a coyly decorous sober sort of way. i've have an ip range that had roots running on it since the days of the ORSC. those roots to this day get traffic. Lots of DNS traffic across all the range numbers used for root service. And I have taken extreme steps to drop this traffic - including interception, I basically sent all traffic to one box, and even that did not stop the traffic. Alot of programs out in the wild running on automation without any human supervision whatsoever. what is really strange is that icann and the community have not learned from this and continue to replace root IP numbers in what is a static root system. indeed very demure mr manning. cheers joe baptista -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------050302040804040804030500 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Joe Baptista n:Baptista;Joe org:PublicRoot Consortium adr:;;963 Ford Street;Peterborough;Ontario;K9J 5V5 ;Canada email;internet:baptista@publicroot.org title:PublicRoot Representative tel;fax:+1 (509) 479-0084 tel;cell:+1 (416) 912-6551 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.publicroot.org version:2.1 end:vcard --------------050302040804040804030500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------050302040804040804030500-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 13:46:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRv8-0006cO-AQ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:46:02 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRv6-0006bj-Ao for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:46:00 -0500 Received: from smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([68.142.225.206]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRv6-0005PE-0D for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:46:00 -0500 Received: (qmail 19486 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2007 18:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2007 18:45:59 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: o_SCo.MVM1n8JYKrQHk8ZR_yFRblozDs0Av0NOgNxNAA7gZnVFCzXstydVMpquafZg-- Message-ID: <474DB766.3050608@publicroot.org> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:45:58 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] References: <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <20071128155817.GE494@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> <20071128160759.GA6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> <20071128161559.GB11779@outpost.ds9a.nl> <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> In-Reply-To: <20071128162241.GC6551@vacation.karoshi.com.> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050302040804040804030500" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Cc: Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG , bert hubert X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050302040804040804030500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > old "B" topolgy didnt change... :) > > hmm. very demure, and i mean that in a coyly decorous sober sort of way. i've have an ip range that had roots running on it since the days of the ORSC. those roots to this day get traffic. Lots of DNS traffic across all the range numbers used for root service. And I have taken extreme steps to drop this traffic - including interception, I basically sent all traffic to one box, and even that did not stop the traffic. Alot of programs out in the wild running on automation without any human supervision whatsoever. what is really strange is that icann and the community have not learned from this and continue to replace root IP numbers in what is a static root system. indeed very demure mr manning. cheers joe baptista -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------050302040804040804030500 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Joe Baptista n:Baptista;Joe org:PublicRoot Consortium adr:;;963 Ford Street;Peterborough;Ontario;K9J 5V5 ;Canada email;internet:baptista@publicroot.org title:PublicRoot Representative tel;fax:+1 (509) 479-0084 tel;cell:+1 (416) 912-6551 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.publicroot.org version:2.1 end:vcard --------------050302040804040804030500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------050302040804040804030500-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 13:50:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRzu-00031y-9u; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:50:58 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRzs-0002pm-TS for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:50:57 -0500 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([2001:200:1b1::35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRzs-0002KH-D5 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:50:56 -0500 Received: from mymb.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:e:21b:63ff:fe08:3e64]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 206877301E; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:50:53 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:50:52 -0800 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Peter Koch Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] In-Reply-To: <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org At Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100, Peter Koch wrote: > > Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly > > > > So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( > > part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was > actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic > seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? BIND9 also uses the root hint when it finds necessary glue is missing. For example, consider the following delegation: child.foo.example. NS 86400 ns.child.foo.example. ns.child.foo.example. A 3600 192.0.2.1 When the (recursive) resolver first visits the child.foo.example zone, it caches both the NS and A records. The glue (A) record will expire in 1 hour. When the resolver tries to visit the zone after that while still keeping the NS record, it tries to fetch the missing glue from the root using the hint file, regardless of whether it has the root NS and the root server addresses in its cache. This would be another reason for the queries to the old L-root address, though I don't think it makes the 40% of total traffic unless the vast majority of hint files aren't updated. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 13:50:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRzu-00031y-9u; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:50:58 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRzs-0002pm-TS for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:50:57 -0500 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([2001:200:1b1::35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxRzs-0002KH-D5 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:50:56 -0500 Received: from mymb.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:e:21b:63ff:fe08:3e64]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 206877301E; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:50:53 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:50:52 -0800 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Peter Koch Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] In-Reply-To: <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/22.0 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org At Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100, Peter Koch wrote: > > Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly > > > > So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( > > part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was > actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic > seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? BIND9 also uses the root hint when it finds necessary glue is missing. For example, consider the following delegation: child.foo.example. NS 86400 ns.child.foo.example. ns.child.foo.example. A 3600 192.0.2.1 When the (recursive) resolver first visits the child.foo.example zone, it caches both the NS and A records. The glue (A) record will expire in 1 hour. When the resolver tries to visit the zone after that while still keeping the NS record, it tries to fetch the missing glue from the root using the hint file, regardless of whether it has the root NS and the root server addresses in its cache. This would be another reason for the queries to the old L-root address, though I don't think it makes the 40% of total traffic unless the vast majority of hint files aren't updated. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 13:55:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxS4B-0003HQ-4O; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:55:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxS4A-0003H8-NR for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:55:22 -0500 Received: from newtla.xelerance.com ([193.110.157.143]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxS4A-0002em-0M for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:55:22 -0500 Received: from tla.xelerance.com (tla.xelerance.com [193.110.157.130]) by newtla.xelerance.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD93CC09D; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:58:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:58:39 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Wouters To: Antoin Verschuren Subject: RE: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name serversduring a delegation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Antoin Verschuren wrote: > In the .nl registry system we only need glue for ns1.example.nl if it's in the NS set of example.nl. Interesting, since last week I ended up with hundreds of "glue records" in the .nl database being wrong, because I changed the IP address of one nameserver (which has one A record). Someone had to execute manual DB queries to get this fixed. Granted, this wasn't DNS glue records, but the fact that these non-neccessary duplicate (and wrong) bits were stored in the DB really surprised me. >From what I understood was that since I renamed ns1.xtdnet.nl to ns1.xtdnet.com, and ns1.xtdnet.nl needed glue for serving xtdnet.nl, it was somehow not possible to update the DB to remove ns1.xtdnet.nl (for ns1.xtdnet.com), and the other .nl domains had some kind of seperate data glue storage for ns1.xtdnet.nl. Paul _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 13:55:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxS4B-0003HQ-4O; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:55:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxS4A-0003H8-NR for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:55:22 -0500 Received: from newtla.xelerance.com ([193.110.157.143]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxS4A-0002em-0M for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:55:22 -0500 Received: from tla.xelerance.com (tla.xelerance.com [193.110.157.130]) by newtla.xelerance.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD93CC09D; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:58:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:58:39 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Wouters To: Antoin Verschuren Subject: RE: [DNSOP] Always registering the IP address of the name serversduring a delegation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Antoin Verschuren wrote: > In the .nl registry system we only need glue for ns1.example.nl if it's in the NS set of example.nl. Interesting, since last week I ended up with hundreds of "glue records" in the .nl database being wrong, because I changed the IP address of one nameserver (which has one A record). Someone had to execute manual DB queries to get this fixed. Granted, this wasn't DNS glue records, but the fact that these non-neccessary duplicate (and wrong) bits were stored in the DB really surprised me. >From what I understood was that since I renamed ns1.xtdnet.nl to ns1.xtdnet.com, and ns1.xtdnet.nl needed glue for serving xtdnet.nl, it was somehow not possible to update the DB to remove ns1.xtdnet.nl (for ns1.xtdnet.com), and the other .nl domains had some kind of seperate data glue storage for ns1.xtdnet.nl. Paul _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 14:02:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSB5-00013m-PY; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:02:32 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSB5-00013b-6k for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:02:31 -0500 Received: from smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.36.79]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSB4-000307-Np for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:02:31 -0500 Received: (qmail 38592 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2007 19:02:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2007 19:02:27 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 37LTAHgVM1nkMHbD2_D3ZrDpEdLQ.T.ATbYtvb7RbAtvtTci45RATAaNsvb7r3DwrA-- Message-ID: <474DBB41.5080402@publicroot.org> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:02:25 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "" Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050302060307040803090006" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a Cc: Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050302060307040803090006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes - many questions and few answer and very little data available for the community to figure out those answers. John Crain should publish stats more often. Why indeed does root behave so strangely. That little 40 percentage thingy indeed does raise alotof questions. John can you speculate for us? Whats going on. Another very interesting thing is the incredible power behind one IP number when it has experienced root activity. It only takes one rogue root to highjack the entire root system. Its been done twice now in internet history. How is that possible? regards joe baptista JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 wrote: >At Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100, >Peter Koch wrote: > > > >>>Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly >>> >>>So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( >>> >>> >>part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was >>actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic >>seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? >> >> > >BIND9 also uses the root hint when it finds necessary glue is >missing. For example, consider the following delegation: > >child.foo.example. NS 86400 ns.child.foo.example. >ns.child.foo.example. A 3600 192.0.2.1 > >When the (recursive) resolver first visits the child.foo.example zone, >it caches both the NS and A records. The glue (A) record will expire >in 1 hour. When the resolver tries to visit the zone after that while >still keeping the NS record, it tries to fetch the missing glue from >the root using the hint file, regardless of whether it has the root NS >and the root server addresses in its cache. > >This would be another reason for the queries to the old L-root >address, though I don't think it makes the 40% of total traffic unless >the vast majority of hint files aren't updated. > > JINMEI, Tatuya > Communication Platform Lab. > Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. > jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp > >_______________________________________________ >DNSOP mailing list >DNSOP@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > > > > -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------050302060307040803090006 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" YmVnaW46dmNhcmQNCmZuOkpvZSBCYXB0aXN0YQ0KbjpCYXB0aXN0YTtKb2UNCm9yZzpQdWJs aWNSb290IENvbnNvcnRpdW0NCmFkcjo7Ozk2MyBGb3JkIFN0cmVldDtQZXRlcmJvcm91Z2g7 T250YXJpbztLOUogNVY1IDtDYW5hZGENCmVtYWlsO2ludGVybmV0OmJhcHRpc3RhQHB1Ymxp Y3Jvb3Qub3JnDQp0aXRsZTpQdWJsaWNSb290IFJlcHJlc2VudGF0aXZlDQp0ZWw7ZmF4Oisx ICg1MDkpIDQ3OS0wMDg0IA0KdGVsO2NlbGw6KzEgKDQxNikgOTEyLTY1NTENCngtbW96aWxs YS1odG1sOkZBTFNFDQp1cmw6aHR0cDovL3d3dy5wdWJsaWNyb290Lm9yZw0KdmVyc2lvbjoy LjENCmVuZDp2Y2FyZA0KDQo= --------------050302060307040803090006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------050302060307040803090006-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 14:02:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSB5-00013m-PY; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:02:32 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSB5-00013b-6k for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:02:31 -0500 Received: from smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.36.79]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSB4-000307-Np for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:02:31 -0500 Received: (qmail 38592 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2007 19:02:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2007 19:02:27 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 37LTAHgVM1nkMHbD2_D3ZrDpEdLQ.T.ATbYtvb7RbAtvtTci45RATAaNsvb7r3DwrA-- Message-ID: <474DBB41.5080402@publicroot.org> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:02:25 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "" Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050302060307040803090006" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a Cc: Peter Koch , IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050302060307040803090006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes - many questions and few answer and very little data available for the community to figure out those answers. John Crain should publish stats more often. Why indeed does root behave so strangely. That little 40 percentage thingy indeed does raise alotof questions. John can you speculate for us? Whats going on. Another very interesting thing is the incredible power behind one IP number when it has experienced root activity. It only takes one rogue root to highjack the entire root system. Its been done twice now in internet history. How is that possible? regards joe baptista JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 wrote: >At Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100, >Peter Koch wrote: > > > >>>Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly >>> >>>So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( >>> >>> >>part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was >>actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L traffic >>seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? >> >> > >BIND9 also uses the root hint when it finds necessary glue is >missing. For example, consider the following delegation: > >child.foo.example. NS 86400 ns.child.foo.example. >ns.child.foo.example. A 3600 192.0.2.1 > >When the (recursive) resolver first visits the child.foo.example zone, >it caches both the NS and A records. The glue (A) record will expire >in 1 hour. When the resolver tries to visit the zone after that while >still keeping the NS record, it tries to fetch the missing glue from >the root using the hint file, regardless of whether it has the root NS >and the root server addresses in its cache. > >This would be another reason for the queries to the old L-root >address, though I don't think it makes the 40% of total traffic unless >the vast majority of hint files aren't updated. > > JINMEI, Tatuya > Communication Platform Lab. > Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. > jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp > >_______________________________________________ >DNSOP mailing list >DNSOP@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > > > > -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------050302060307040803090006 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" YmVnaW46dmNhcmQNCmZuOkpvZSBCYXB0aXN0YQ0KbjpCYXB0aXN0YTtKb2UNCm9yZzpQdWJs aWNSb290IENvbnNvcnRpdW0NCmFkcjo7Ozk2MyBGb3JkIFN0cmVldDtQZXRlcmJvcm91Z2g7 T250YXJpbztLOUogNVY1IDtDYW5hZGENCmVtYWlsO2ludGVybmV0OmJhcHRpc3RhQHB1Ymxp Y3Jvb3Qub3JnDQp0aXRsZTpQdWJsaWNSb290IFJlcHJlc2VudGF0aXZlDQp0ZWw7ZmF4Oisx ICg1MDkpIDQ3OS0wMDg0IA0KdGVsO2NlbGw6KzEgKDQxNikgOTEyLTY1NTENCngtbW96aWxs YS1odG1sOkZBTFNFDQp1cmw6aHR0cDovL3d3dy5wdWJsaWNyb290Lm9yZw0KdmVyc2lvbjoy LjENCmVuZDp2Y2FyZA0KDQo= --------------050302060307040803090006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------050302060307040803090006-- From kuo@poloralphlauren.com Wed Nov 28 14:05:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSE8-0004dv-UO for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:05:40 -0500 Received: from p57a57983.dip.t-dialin.net ([87.165.121.131]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSE8-0006wv-CQ for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:05:40 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c831f1$04a03826$782791a0@ucyerwl> From: "lindsay spence" To: Subject: If quality and prestige plays a key role in your choice Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:18:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 If quality and prestige plays a key role in your choice of men watches then our replica watches were made exactly for you! 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Visit our site http://www.wajjsio.com From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 14:45:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSqA-00064I-Mq; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:44:58 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSq9-000645-Hk for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:44:57 -0500 Received: from smtp2.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.15] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSq8-000582-T3 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:44:57 -0500 Received: from mobile105.mdr.icann.org (mobile105.mdr.icann.org [192.0.39.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lASJitIW008523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:44:55 -0800 Message-Id: From: John Crain To: IETF DNSOP WG In-Reply-To: <474DBB41.5080402@publicroot.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:44:55 -0800 References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <474DBB41.5080402@publicroot.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff03b0075c3fc728d7d60a15b4ee1ad2 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Speculation is all it is and I probably have no better ideas than many =20= folks here. Be better to try and figure out what is really happening... I think this is just a knock on effect from the fact that many folks =20 don't keep their systems up to date, especially smaller networks. Typically they turn something on and just leave it until it stops =20 working. Just like they don't update any other software if it isn't =20 done for them automatically. That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. It's nice to think that resolvers will automatically fix themselves =20 when priming but I think the stats show this not to be solving the =20 issue. It's too early from the L-root perspective to really see what is =20 happening. Less than a month since renumbering, long term trends will =20= be more interesting. We'll start to analyze some of the big hitters on the old address. =20 Once we have some long term data I will publish something. Luckily the folks who gave us DSC made it easy for me to do just that. Big thanks to Duane and co!!! John L. Crain Chief Technical Officer I.C.A.N.N. On 28 Nov 2007, at 11:02, Joe Baptista wrote: > Yes - many questions and few answer and very little data available =20 > for the community to figure out those answers. John Crain should =20 > publish stats more often. Why indeed does root behave so strangely. =20= > That little 40 percentage thingy indeed does raise alotof questions. =20= > John can you speculate for us? Whats going on. > > Another very interesting thing is the incredible power behind one IP =20= > number when it has experienced root activity. It only takes one =20 > rogue root to highjack the entire root system. Its been done twice =20 > now in internet history. How is that possible? > > regards > joe baptista > > JINMEI Tatuya / =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 wrote: > >> At Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100, >> Peter Koch wrote: >> >> >>>> Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly >>>> >>>> So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints =20 >>>> files :( >>>> >>> part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was >>> actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L =20 >>> traffic >>> seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? >>> >> >> BIND9 also uses the root hint when it finds necessary glue is >> missing. For example, consider the following delegation: >> >> child.foo.example. NS 86400 ns.child.foo.example. >> ns.child.foo.example. A 3600 192.0.2.1 >> >> When the (recursive) resolver first visits the child.foo.example =20 >> zone, >> it caches both the NS and A records. The glue (A) record will expire >> in 1 hour. When the resolver tries to visit the zone after that =20 >> while >> still keeping the NS record, it tries to fetch the missing glue from >> the root using the hint file, regardless of whether it has the root =20= >> NS >> and the root server addresses in its cache. >> >> This would be another reason for the queries to the old L-root >> address, though I don't think it makes the 40% of total traffic =20 >> unless >> the vast majority of hint files aren't updated. >> >> JINMEI, Tatuya >> Communication Platform Lab. >> Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba = Corp. >> jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp >> >> _______________________________________________ >> DNSOP mailing list >> DNSOP@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >> >> >> > > > --=20 > Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org > PublicRoot Consortium > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, > Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 > Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 14:45:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSqA-00064I-Mq; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:44:58 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSq9-000645-Hk for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:44:57 -0500 Received: from smtp2.lax.icann.org ([208.77.188.15] helo=smtp01.icann.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxSq8-000582-T3 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:44:57 -0500 Received: from mobile105.mdr.icann.org (mobile105.mdr.icann.org [192.0.39.105] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.icann.org (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lASJitIW008523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:44:55 -0800 Message-Id: From: John Crain To: IETF DNSOP WG In-Reply-To: <474DBB41.5080402@publicroot.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:44:55 -0800 References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <474DBB41.5080402@publicroot.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff03b0075c3fc728d7d60a15b4ee1ad2 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Speculation is all it is and I probably have no better ideas than many =20= folks here. Be better to try and figure out what is really happening... I think this is just a knock on effect from the fact that many folks =20 don't keep their systems up to date, especially smaller networks. Typically they turn something on and just leave it until it stops =20 working. Just like they don't update any other software if it isn't =20 done for them automatically. That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. It's nice to think that resolvers will automatically fix themselves =20 when priming but I think the stats show this not to be solving the =20 issue. It's too early from the L-root perspective to really see what is =20 happening. Less than a month since renumbering, long term trends will =20= be more interesting. We'll start to analyze some of the big hitters on the old address. =20 Once we have some long term data I will publish something. Luckily the folks who gave us DSC made it easy for me to do just that. Big thanks to Duane and co!!! John L. Crain Chief Technical Officer I.C.A.N.N. On 28 Nov 2007, at 11:02, Joe Baptista wrote: > Yes - many questions and few answer and very little data available =20 > for the community to figure out those answers. John Crain should =20 > publish stats more often. Why indeed does root behave so strangely. =20= > That little 40 percentage thingy indeed does raise alotof questions. =20= > John can you speculate for us? Whats going on. > > Another very interesting thing is the incredible power behind one IP =20= > number when it has experienced root activity. It only takes one =20 > rogue root to highjack the entire root system. Its been done twice =20 > now in internet history. How is that possible? > > regards > joe baptista > > JINMEI Tatuya / =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 wrote: > >> At Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100, >> Peter Koch wrote: >> >> >>>> Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly >>>> >>>> So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints =20 >>>> files :( >>>> >>> part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was >>> actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L =20 >>> traffic >>> seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? >>> >> >> BIND9 also uses the root hint when it finds necessary glue is >> missing. For example, consider the following delegation: >> >> child.foo.example. NS 86400 ns.child.foo.example. >> ns.child.foo.example. A 3600 192.0.2.1 >> >> When the (recursive) resolver first visits the child.foo.example =20 >> zone, >> it caches both the NS and A records. The glue (A) record will expire >> in 1 hour. When the resolver tries to visit the zone after that =20 >> while >> still keeping the NS record, it tries to fetch the missing glue from >> the root using the hint file, regardless of whether it has the root =20= >> NS >> and the root server addresses in its cache. >> >> This would be another reason for the queries to the old L-root >> address, though I don't think it makes the 40% of total traffic =20 >> unless >> the vast majority of hint files aren't updated. >> >> JINMEI, Tatuya >> Communication Platform Lab. >> Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba = Corp. >> jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp >> >> _______________________________________________ >> DNSOP mailing list >> DNSOP@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >> >> >> > > > --=20 > Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org > PublicRoot Consortium > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, > Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 > Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 15:22:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxTQb-0003bh-Go; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:22:37 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxTQa-0003Ni-DW for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:22:36 -0500 Received: from smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.36.82]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxTQZ-0003Db-MA for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:22:36 -0500 Received: (qmail 28361 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2007 20:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2007 20:22:35 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: i0M9wU0VM1mozu3HVbnKpI2WoLWo3Yik9DvmpiGyzMnTZalmZw2rZJ.c6DjM.wDzJg-- Message-ID: <474DCE03.5030803@publicroot.org> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:22:27 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Crain Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <474DBB41.5080402@publicroot.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020706090109010703020303" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0e9ebc0cbd700a87c0637ad0e2c91610 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020706090109010703020303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Crain wrote: > > Speculation is all it is and I probably have no better ideas than > many folks here. Be better to try and figure out what is really > happening... > > I think this is just a knock on effect from the fact that many folks > don't keep their systems up to date, especially smaller networks. > Typically they turn something on and just leave it until it stops > working. Just like they don't update any other software if it isn't > done for them automatically. > > That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. No it does not. That in fact is a big problem. I used to do scans of DNS servers over the years. And one interesting thing I have found is there are still servers out there using the very old legacy roots. When they had five root servers. I think because of the fact that what you say above is so true - people install dns and then forget it - then maybe it is time for ICANN to consider a root policy that goes something like this - to have a stable internet you don't go around changing your roots ip numbers. I look forward to more reports and data sharing from L root. But to be frank it would be alot of fun to see that same data compared to data from f.root. f.root is a true legacy root system. I think it's been around from the beginning and may be an excellent comparison to the progress of the L root fragmentation. cheers joe baptista > > > It's nice to think that resolvers will automatically fix themselves > when priming but I think the stats show this not to be solving the > issue. > > It's too early from the L-root perspective to really see what is > happening. Less than a month since renumbering, long term trends will > be more interesting. > We'll start to analyze some of the big hitters on the old address. > Once we have some long term data I will publish something. > > Luckily the folks who gave us DSC made it easy for me to do just that. > > Big thanks to Duane and co!!! > > > John L. Crain > Chief Technical Officer > I.C.A.N.N. > > > > On 28 Nov 2007, at 11:02, Joe Baptista wrote: > >> Yes - many questions and few answer and very little data available >> for the community to figure out those answers. John Crain should >> publish stats more often. Why indeed does root behave so strangely. >> That little 40 percentage thingy indeed does raise alotof questions. >> John can you speculate for us? Whats going on. >> >> Another very interesting thing is the incredible power behind one IP >> number when it has experienced root activity. It only takes one >> rogue root to highjack the entire root system. Its been done twice >> now in internet history. How is that possible? >> >> regards >> joe baptista >> >> JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 wrote: >> >>> At Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100, >>> Peter Koch wrote: >>> >>> >>>>> Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly >>>>> >>>>> So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( >>>>> >>>> part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was >>>> actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L >>>> traffic >>>> seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? >>>> >>> >>> BIND9 also uses the root hint when it finds necessary glue is >>> missing. For example, consider the following delegation: >>> >>> child.foo.example. NS 86400 ns.child.foo.example. >>> ns.child.foo.example. A 3600 192.0.2.1 >>> >>> When the (recursive) resolver first visits the child.foo.example zone, >>> it caches both the NS and A records. The glue (A) record will expire >>> in 1 hour. When the resolver tries to visit the zone after that while >>> still keeping the NS record, it tries to fetch the missing glue from >>> the root using the hint file, regardless of whether it has the root NS >>> and the root server addresses in its cache. >>> >>> This would be another reason for the queries to the old L-root >>> address, though I don't think it makes the 40% of total traffic unless >>> the vast majority of hint files aren't updated. >>> >>> JINMEI, Tatuya >>> Communication Platform Lab. >>> Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. >>> jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> DNSOP mailing list >>> DNSOP@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >> PublicRoot Consortium >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> DNSOP mailing list >> DNSOP@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > > -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------020706090109010703020303 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" YmVnaW46dmNhcmQNCmZuOkpvZSBCYXB0aXN0YQ0KbjpCYXB0aXN0YTtKb2UNCm9yZzpQdWJs aWNSb290IENvbnNvcnRpdW0NCmFkcjo7Ozk2MyBGb3JkIFN0cmVldDtQZXRlcmJvcm91Z2g7 T250YXJpbztLOUogNVY1IDtDYW5hZGENCmVtYWlsO2ludGVybmV0OmJhcHRpc3RhQHB1Ymxp Y3Jvb3Qub3JnDQp0aXRsZTpQdWJsaWNSb290IFJlcHJlc2VudGF0aXZlDQp0ZWw7ZmF4Oisx ICg1MDkpIDQ3OS0wMDg0IA0KdGVsO2NlbGw6KzEgKDQxNikgOTEyLTY1NTENCngtbW96aWxs YS1odG1sOkZBTFNFDQp1cmw6aHR0cDovL3d3dy5wdWJsaWNyb290Lm9yZw0KdmVyc2lvbjoy LjENCmVuZDp2Y2FyZA0KDQo= --------------020706090109010703020303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------020706090109010703020303-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 15:22:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxTQb-0003bh-Go; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:22:37 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxTQa-0003Ni-DW for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:22:36 -0500 Received: from smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.36.82]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxTQZ-0003Db-MA for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:22:36 -0500 Received: (qmail 28361 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2007 20:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.201.101?) (antoniobaptista@rogers.com@99.240.21.247 with plain) by smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2007 20:22:35 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: i0M9wU0VM1mozu3HVbnKpI2WoLWo3Yik9DvmpiGyzMnTZalmZw2rZJ.c6DjM.wDzJg-- Message-ID: <474DCE03.5030803@publicroot.org> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:22:27 -0500 From: Joe Baptista User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Crain Subject: Re: L-Root address change [Re: [DNSOP] AS112 for TLDs] References: <20071127141848.GA16571@nic.fr> <20071127150813.GD33734@moof.catpipe.net> <474C40DF.8080100@publicroot.org> <9B9F9C57-5000-4A63-99CA-89EEB8014205@icann.org> <474C9497.7020308@publicroot.org> <474C9A04.1090405@publicroot.org> <77E55800-E184-4225-91C5-59DA85D3E156@icann.org> <20071128095544.GB19314@unknown.office.denic.de> <474DBB41.5080402@publicroot.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020706090109010703020303" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0e9ebc0cbd700a87c0637ad0e2c91610 Cc: IETF DNSOP WG X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020706090109010703020303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Crain wrote: > > Speculation is all it is and I probably have no better ideas than > many folks here. Be better to try and figure out what is really > happening... > > I think this is just a knock on effect from the fact that many folks > don't keep their systems up to date, especially smaller networks. > Typically they turn something on and just leave it until it stops > working. Just like they don't update any other software if it isn't > done for them automatically. > > That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. No it does not. That in fact is a big problem. I used to do scans of DNS servers over the years. And one interesting thing I have found is there are still servers out there using the very old legacy roots. When they had five root servers. I think because of the fact that what you say above is so true - people install dns and then forget it - then maybe it is time for ICANN to consider a root policy that goes something like this - to have a stable internet you don't go around changing your roots ip numbers. I look forward to more reports and data sharing from L root. But to be frank it would be alot of fun to see that same data compared to data from f.root. f.root is a true legacy root system. I think it's been around from the beginning and may be an excellent comparison to the progress of the L root fragmentation. cheers joe baptista > > > It's nice to think that resolvers will automatically fix themselves > when priming but I think the stats show this not to be solving the > issue. > > It's too early from the L-root perspective to really see what is > happening. Less than a month since renumbering, long term trends will > be more interesting. > We'll start to analyze some of the big hitters on the old address. > Once we have some long term data I will publish something. > > Luckily the folks who gave us DSC made it easy for me to do just that. > > Big thanks to Duane and co!!! > > > John L. Crain > Chief Technical Officer > I.C.A.N.N. > > > > On 28 Nov 2007, at 11:02, Joe Baptista wrote: > >> Yes - many questions and few answer and very little data available >> for the community to figure out those answers. John Crain should >> publish stats more often. Why indeed does root behave so strangely. >> That little 40 percentage thingy indeed does raise alotof questions. >> John can you speculate for us? Whats going on. >> >> Another very interesting thing is the incredible power behind one IP >> number when it has experienced root activity. It only takes one >> rogue root to highjack the entire root system. Its been done twice >> now in internet history. How is that possible? >> >> regards >> joe baptista >> >> JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 wrote: >> >>> At Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:55:44 +0100, >>> Peter Koch wrote: >>> >>> >>>>> Currently about 60% New IP to 40% old IP... and rising slowly >>>>> >>>>> So clearly a lot of folks still need to up date their hints files :( >>>>> >>>> part of that traffic will be due to old hints files, but priming was >>>> actually supposed to accelerate the migration. 40% of total L >>>> traffic >>>> seems a bit much for 1/13 of the priming traffic? >>>> >>> >>> BIND9 also uses the root hint when it finds necessary glue is >>> missing. For example, consider the following delegation: >>> >>> child.foo.example. NS 86400 ns.child.foo.example. >>> ns.child.foo.example. A 3600 192.0.2.1 >>> >>> When the (recursive) resolver first visits the child.foo.example zone, >>> it caches both the NS and A records. The glue (A) record will expire >>> in 1 hour. When the resolver tries to visit the zone after that while >>> still keeping the NS record, it tries to fetch the missing glue from >>> the root using the hint file, regardless of whether it has the root NS >>> and the root server addresses in its cache. >>> >>> This would be another reason for the queries to the old L-root >>> address, though I don't think it makes the 40% of total traffic unless >>> the vast majority of hint files aren't updated. >>> >>> JINMEI, Tatuya >>> Communication Platform Lab. >>> Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. >>> jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> DNSOP mailing list >>> DNSOP@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org >> PublicRoot Consortium >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, >> Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 >> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> DNSOP mailing list >> DNSOP@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop > > -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (202) 517-1593 Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084 --------------020706090109010703020303 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="baptista.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="baptista.vcf" YmVnaW46dmNhcmQNCmZuOkpvZSBCYXB0aXN0YQ0KbjpCYXB0aXN0YTtKb2UNCm9yZzpQdWJs aWNSb290IENvbnNvcnRpdW0NCmFkcjo7Ozk2MyBGb3JkIFN0cmVldDtQZXRlcmJvcm91Z2g7 T250YXJpbztLOUogNVY1IDtDYW5hZGENCmVtYWlsO2ludGVybmV0OmJhcHRpc3RhQHB1Ymxp Y3Jvb3Qub3JnDQp0aXRsZTpQdWJsaWNSb290IFJlcHJlc2VudGF0aXZlDQp0ZWw7ZmF4Oisx ICg1MDkpIDQ3OS0wMDg0IA0KdGVsO2NlbGw6KzEgKDQxNikgOTEyLTY1NTENCngtbW96aWxs YS1odG1sOkZBTFNFDQp1cmw6aHR0cDovL3d3dy5wdWJsaWNyb290Lm9yZw0KdmVyc2lvbjoy LjENCmVuZDp2Y2FyZA0KDQo= --------------020706090109010703020303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop --------------020706090109010703020303-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 18:34:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxWPk-0005YZ-VI; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:33:56 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxWPj-0005Wq-Ji for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:33:55 -0500 Received: from sa.vix.com ([2001:4f8:3:bb::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxWPj-0001Dk-06 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:33:55 -0500 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EA1611429 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:33:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:15:51 EST." References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:33:54 +0000 Message-ID: <11789.1196292834@sa.vix.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org > So, would it be possible for one or more of the root server operators to > prepare a generic-yet-official-looking LOA on suitable "letterhead" and > perhaps stash it on www.root-servers.org somewhere? in principle, sure. but i think if it's a form available on the web, then some enterprising transit provider out there will reject the LOA as "fake". > [I copy the list on this so that it doesn't appear that the thread ended > over-abruptly in the archive.] do send text. liman@autonomica.se would be my preferred favourite for this. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 18:34:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxWPk-0005YZ-VI; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:33:56 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxWPj-0005Wq-Ji for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:33:55 -0500 Received: from sa.vix.com ([2001:4f8:3:bb::1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxWPj-0001Dk-06 for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:33:55 -0500 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EA1611429 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:33:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: dnsop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:15:51 EST." References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:33:54 +0000 Message-ID: <11789.1196292834@sa.vix.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org > So, would it be possible for one or more of the root server operators to > prepare a generic-yet-official-looking LOA on suitable "letterhead" and > perhaps stash it on www.root-servers.org somewhere? in principle, sure. but i think if it's a form available on the web, then some enterprising transit provider out there will reject the LOA as "fake". > [I copy the list on this so that it doesn't appear that the thread ended > over-abruptly in the archive.] do send text. liman@autonomica.se would be my preferred favourite for this. _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From LamarrevisalAbbott@bellinghamherald.com Wed Nov 28 18:56:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxWlb-0003De-13 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:56:31 -0500 Received: from adsl-64-237-185-19.prtc.net ([64.237.185.19] helo=davidwa30k27c2.lan) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxWla-0006cJ-N4 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:56:30 -0500 Received: from want by bellinghamherald.com with SMTP id OVb2wq5FJb for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:56:22 +0800 From: "Darrin Harrington" To: haa08534@ietf.org Subject: Our safe, secure games Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0f1ff0b0158b41ac6b9548d0972cdd31 hi From ClaypomposityPatrick@apache.org Wed Nov 28 18:58:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxWns-00047c-Tc; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:58:53 -0500 Received: from 216-197-213-70.regn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca ([216.197.213.70] helo=yourus67pi6luv) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxWns-00022s-N7; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:58:52 -0500 Received: from laudanum by apache.org with SMTP id ysTU1qJONi for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:58:41 +0600 From: "Terrell Huff" To: dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org Cc: ietf-message-headers-request@lists.ietf.org, ediint-archive@lists.ietf.org>, isms-request@lists.ietf.org>, ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org> Subject: We know how to treat our players Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0f1ff0b0158b41ac6b9548d0972cdd31 hi From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 19:37:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxXOu-0002S1-Dh; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:37:08 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxXOs-0002Rq-Kf for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:37:06 -0500 Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp ([131.112.32.132]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxXOr-0008A8-WA for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:37:06 -0500 Received: (qmail 24168 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2007 01:06:03 -0000 Received: from softbank219001188012.bbtec.net (HELO necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) (219.1.188.12) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Nov 2007 01:06:03 -0000 Message-ID: <474E09A0.8070302@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:36:48 +0900 From: Masataka Ohta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: ja, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Vixie Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? References: <11789.1196292834@sa.vix.com> In-Reply-To: <11789.1196292834@sa.vix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Paul Vixie wrote: >>So, would it be possible for one or more of the root server operators to >>prepare a generic-yet-official-looking LOA on suitable "letterhead" and >>perhaps stash it on www.root-servers.org somewhere? > in principle, sure. If anyone, even those with their own root zone contents different from others, can operate anycast root server of AS112, that will be fine. Otherwise, those who want to operate anycast root server of AS112 must interact with "Root Server Technical Operations Assn", result of which will be an LOA. For example, "Root Server Technical Operations Assn" may provide a web site for anycast root server operators agree on proper contents of root zone and register their contact information to be used to notify root zone change and, in return, get LOAs. Masataka Ohta _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 28 19:37:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxXOu-0002S1-Dh; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:37:08 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxXOs-0002Rq-Kf for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:37:06 -0500 Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp ([131.112.32.132]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxXOr-0008A8-WA for dnsop@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:37:06 -0500 Received: (qmail 24168 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2007 01:06:03 -0000 Received: from softbank219001188012.bbtec.net (HELO necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) (219.1.188.12) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Nov 2007 01:06:03 -0000 Message-ID: <474E09A0.8070302@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:36:48 +0900 From: Masataka Ohta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: ja, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Vixie Subject: Re: [DNSOP] AS112 LOA? References: <11789.1196292834@sa.vix.com> In-Reply-To: <11789.1196292834@sa.vix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: dnsop@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Paul Vixie wrote: >>So, would it be possible for one or more of the root server operators to >>prepare a generic-yet-official-looking LOA on suitable "letterhead" and >>perhaps stash it on www.root-servers.org somewhere? > in principle, sure. If anyone, even those with their own root zone contents different from others, can operate anycast root server of AS112, that will be fine. Otherwise, those who want to operate anycast root server of AS112 must interact with "Root Server Technical Operations Assn", result of which will be an LOA. For example, "Root Server Technical Operations Assn" may provide a web site for anycast root server operators agree on proper contents of root zone and register their contact information to be used to notify root zone change and, in return, get LOAs. Masataka Ohta _______________________________________________ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop From scompetence@satex.com Wed Nov 28 20:26:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxYAx-0006y0-7t for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:26:47 -0500 Received: from [201.41.171.233] (helo=satex.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IxYAu-00052K-Lw for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:26:47 -0500 Received: (qmail 74159 invoked from network); Sat, 30 Dec 2006 05:47:23 -0200 Received: from unknown (HELO youra69a87b704) (scompetence@satex.com@94.27.28.115) by e9ab29c9satex.com with SMTP; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 05:47:23 -0200 Message-ID: <001801c72bd5$fad35210$006494fc@youra69a87b704> From: Emilio H. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_6FC3C_01C83393.C06BD2C0-- From MCCARLEYzlb@worldfreeinternet.net Fri Nov 30 16:05:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyD3T-0006CF-HN for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:05:47 -0500 Received: from c158160.adsl.hansenet.de ([213.39.158.160]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyD3S-00005C-Sy for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:05:47 -0500 Received: from dell-kabwpqsyca ([124.105.186.119] helo=dell-kabwpqsyca) by c158160.adsl.hansenet.de ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1iglun-000USW-Qe for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:06:08 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c83394$c0c8a350$a09e27d5@dellkabwpqsyca> From: "Namit MCCARLEY" To: Subject: egewsthc Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:05:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C8339D.228D0B50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C8339D.228D0B50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I started in May at 5 inches length. I grew to 6 inches in 2 months = http://mgjjese.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C8339D.228D0B50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I started in May at 5 inches length. I grew to 6 = inches in=20 2 months http://mgjjese.com/
    <= /HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C8339D.228D0B50-- From Kulinski@worldfreeinternet.net Fri Nov 30 16:06:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyD3v-0006gx-DZ for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:06:15 -0500 Received: from c158160.adsl.hansenet.de ([213.39.158.160]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyD3u-0000Cb-Uf for dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:06:15 -0500 Received: from dell-kabwpqsyca ([114.149.85.15]:22556 "EHLO dell-kabwpqsyca" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by c158160.adsl.hansenet.de with ESMTP id S22ECNSTDZLDAKLU (ORCPT ); Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:06:39 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c83394$d1992470$a09e27d5@dellkabwpqsyca> From: "Jeremiah Kulinski" To: dnsop-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: egenaaid Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:06:04 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c83394$d1992470$a09e27d5@dellkabwpqsyca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0f1ff0b0158b41ac6b9548d0972cdd31 After only 2 weeks of use I have noticed a amazing difference in girth http://www.mhrtfl.com/ From DeannretentionHanks@foxnews.com Fri Nov 30 16:56:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyDqp-00029B-AR; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:56:47 -0500 Received: from [200.71.43.35] (helo=dianavela) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyDqo-0004ND-S7; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:56:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host56465280.foxnews.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id M717MkR618.150470.lnU.DLq.3542969574550 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:56:25 +0500 Message-ID: <46f9c01c8339b$e4df5c50$7312a8c0@DIANAVELA> From: "Leta Mckinnon" To: Cc: , =20

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