[GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html= /draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03

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90 tabs	180 doses	~~$769.95~~	$176.40
180 tabs	360 doses	~~$1299.95~~	$298.46

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When you are aged and never give up…
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------=_NextPart_000_50A5_01C83505.F5D3B4A0-- From roundpol@allergyfacts.org.au Sun Dec 02 13:38:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IytiF-0001KU-9Z for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:38:43 -0500 Received: from adsl-ull-26-93.48-151.net24.it ([151.48.93.26] helo=adsl-ull-113-83.48-151.net24.it) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IytiC-0004gY-U0 for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:38:41 -0500 Received: by 10.90.228.195 with SMTP id XvgSTqMrajIaN; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:32:53 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.154.234 with SMTP id rucGjvacPxLmvo.2024087339047; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:32:51 +0100 (GMT) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:32:48 +0100 To: geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org From: "Reasha round" Subject: pores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Ever wondered what it would be like to have a pornstar dick? now you can have one http://ollster.com/ From jarron-marcano@biancamariaspironello.it Sun Dec 02 14:18:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyuL2-0003M8-Bg for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:18:48 -0500 Received: from [89.123.0.239] (helo=[89.123.7.92]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyuKy-0001Th-PE for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:18:48 -0500 Received: from secret-b71b0d4b ([110.121.163.148]:8938 "EHLO secret-b71b0d4b" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by [89.123.7.92] with ESMTP id S22PDIGQVCCDDTXN (ORCPT ); Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:18:14 +0200 Message-ID: <000801c16626$270e3f00$5c077b59@secretb71b0d4b> From: "jarron marcano" To: Subject: daehpmul Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:17:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C16636.EA970F00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C16636.EA970F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Night geopriv-archive do your girl twice and more with cialis http://sharpother.com jarron marcano ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C16636.EA970F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Night geopriv-archive

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jarron marcano

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C16636.EA970F00-- From GabriellehillsideDawkins@apache.org Sun Dec 02 16:05:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iyw0R-0007gG-MT for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:05:39 -0500 Received: from [190.65.191.33] (helo=usuario014021c) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iyw0P-0006tj-CR for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:05:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host40411877.apache.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id vmy2YCT063.241908.wQj.YSq.0501500882850 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:12:07 +0500 Message-ID: <1fac201c8292c$45be5320$0301a8c0@usuario014021c> From: "Marisol Stapleton" To: Subject: Your health Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:12:07 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1FABE_01C8292C.45BE5320" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1FABE_01C8292C.45BE5320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis Soft Tabs would help you to = make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. = Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in = 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_1FABE_01C8292C.45BE5320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Package	Quantity	Price in your = local drugstore*	Our = price	Learn More Now
10 tabs	20 doses	~~$99.95~~	$34.49
30 tabs	60 doses	~~$299.95~~	$88.50
60 tabs	120 doses	~~$449.95~~	$141.02
90 tabs	180 doses	~~$769.95~~	$176.40
180 tabs	360 doses	~~$1299.95~~	$298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_1FABE_01C8292C.45BE5320-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Sun Dec 02 21:52:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz1PY-0005mS-4l; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:51:56 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz1PW-0005mE-UE for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:51:54 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz1PW-0005m5-Kc for geopriv@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:51:54 -0500 Received: from smtp3.andrew.com ([198.135.207.235] helo=andrew.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz1PU-0006OA-Sl for geopriv@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:51:54 -0500 X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2007_12_02_21_02_47 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from aopexbh2.andrew.com [10.86.20.25] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:02:47 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by aopexbh2.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:51:52 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Geopriv] New Version Notificationfordraft-busin-geopriv-location-qos-req-00 Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:51:50 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1196431562.4441.55.camel@n65.nomadiclab.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] New Version Notificationfordraft-busin-geopriv-location-qos-req-00 Thread-Index: AcgzWkkrwX7OQmwlS5GNY4t/elnm2wB/FSvQ References: <1194958639.4660.20.camel@n65.nomadiclab.com><023501c826dd$2521a910$6401a8c0@SusieandCarl><1195712613.4738.52.camel@localhost.localdomain><007701c832c2$19c36860$6401a8c0@SusieandCarl> <1196431562.4441.55.camel@n65.nomadiclab.com> From: "Thomson, Martin" To: "Salvatore Loreto" , "Carl Reed OGC Account" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2007 02:51:52.0441 (UTC) FILETIME=[752D9E90:01C83557] X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Cc: geopriv@ietf.org X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0864456837==" Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org --===============0864456837== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgU2FsLA0KDQpUaGUgZGVmaW5pdGlvbiB0aGF0IEkgaGF2ZSBwcm9wb3NlZCBmb3IgImFjY3Vy YWN5IiBbdW5jZXJ0YWludHldIHJlc3RyaWN0cyB0aGUgdXNhZ2Ugb2YgdGhlIHRlcm0gdG8gcXVh bGl0YXRpdmUgY29udGV4dHMuICBUaGlzIGlzIGNvbnNpc3RlbnQgd2l0aCBpdHMgdXNlIGluIG90 aGVyIGRvbWFpbnMsIGluIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgdGhlIHNjaWVudGlmaWMgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnQgY29t bXVuaXR5LiAgU2luY2Ugb3VyIGRlZmluaXRpb25zIG9mIHVuY2VydGFpbnR5IGFuZCBjb25maWRl 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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv --===============0864456837==-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Sun Dec 02 23:18:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz2kr-0002Po-Ox; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:18:01 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz2kr-0002OR-3f for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:18:01 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz2kq-0002MO-ON for geopriv@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:18:00 -0500 Received: from smtp3.andrew.com ([198.135.207.235] helo=andrew.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz2ko-0005pO-DN for geopriv@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:18:00 -0500 X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2007_12_02_22_28_53 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from aopexbh2.andrew.com [10.86.20.25] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:28:53 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by aopexbh2.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:17:57 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Geopriv] Re: Review of draft-busin-geopriv-location-qos-req-01 Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:17:55 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1196427672.4441.43.camel@n65.nomadiclab.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] Re: Review of draft-busin-geopriv-location-qos-req-01 Thread-Index: AcgzUU5Zc9IAj+tpQSeUyYSPxcNdmgCBjEOg References: <4748272F.9070701@gmx.net> <1196427672.4441.43.camel@n65.nomadiclab.com> From: "Thomson, Martin" To: "Salvatore Loreto" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Dec 2007 04:17:57.0959 (UTC) FILETIME=[7C111D70:01C83563] X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b6657e60309a1317174c9db2ae5f227 Cc: geopriv@ietf.org X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org 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geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 03 01:14:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz4ZO-00039y-H9; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:14:18 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz4ZN-00038N-LR for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:14:17 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz4ZM-00034H-6i for geopriv@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:14:16 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iz4ZK-0006B0-D9 for geopriv@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:14:15 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Dec 2007 22:14:13 -0800 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (sj-core-4.cisco.com [171.68.223.138]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB36ED8X006037; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:14:13 -0800 Received: from [130.129.86.243] (sjc-vpn3-316.cisco.com [10.21.65.60]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lB36EDnb002701; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:14:13 GMT In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cullen Jennings Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:14:06 -0800 To: "Thomson, Martin" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3087; t=1196662453; x=1197526453; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fluffy@cisco.com; z=From:=20Cullen=20Jennings=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Ecrit]=20thomson-geopriv-lis-discovery-03 |Sender:=20; bh=VGTRGaeAIK07xc00MN/mI6nxayKBZtNiApFgYQ2cEPo=; b=SGwoqHqT66rHOzsdoIMdiuo/AqbTJSjTUIHeH38PUe9dFnKJuGsU66uezcmY7l6ctNC09B7Y YZk9qiY0bzWbW1zXqJuMPgDuIOHPhhj891RVJMKnRf9fStBmrYffVlaUR0rNxoFMZkRL7liIXo oG9CxaSNJpubiS8o1EpEJebk4=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=fluffy@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 Cc: geopriv@ietf.org Subject: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] thomson-geopriv-lis-discovery-03 X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org On Nov 29, 2007, at 9:34 PM, Thomson, Martin wrote: > (Bring this back to Geopriv...) > > Hi Cullen, > > Thanks for your comments. > > Re 1.2: HTTP-based services require a path as well as a host and > port. We would have to bastardize HTTP to avoid that. I think my question is why can't you construct the path from the host and port? But this is trivial stuff - don't care one way or other. > > Re 4.2.1.1: UPnP is specifically suggested because the way that it > works is to find the next layer out from the Device. We aren't > looking for a public address; instead, we are actually looking for > an address in the next nearest network layer. This is on the > assumption that a LIS in that layer is more likely to be able to > locate us. I see - thanks for explaining. > (Actually, the piece of UPnP that is required is relatively small > - perform discovery, find devices that support the WANIPConnection > profile, call GetExternalIPAddress on that device). and I supsect the related security for that. > > The reason that we can't rely on the domain name is that a domain > name extracted from a device like a home router isn't useful for > discovery. Note that the home router case also drives the UPnP > recommendation, particularly for layered NAT. > > Ta, > Martin Cullen > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com] >> Sent: Friday, 30 November 2007 2:42 PM >> To: ECRIT >> Subject: [Ecrit] thomson-geopriv-lis-discovery-03 >> >> >> This does a nice job of laying out the options. Few questions ... >> >> Section 1.2. Do we really need to discover a URI or would host, port, >> and type of protocol be enough? If so, SRV would be simpler and more >> widely supported. >> >> Section 4.2.1.1 UPnP would not work in many of the cases we are >> interested in such as layered NAT and even worse it may not be >> possible to detect this failure. I would not be in favor of UPnP >> unless it really was the only solution. It is also very complicated >> to spec the exact parts of it you would need - UPnP is a lot of >> things. >> >> Do we have any idea how common DHCP without a domain name option is? >> I'm wondering if people would bother to implement way to get IP for >> reverse IP approaches. >> >> Cullen >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ecrit mailing list >> Ecrit@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------- > This message is for the designated recipient only and may > contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. > If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete the original. 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------=_NextPart_000_1CE676_01C83761.4AC6FF50-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 12:25:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izy06-0001QN-Dg; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:25:34 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Izy05-0001PO-6i for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:25:33 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izy04-0001P2-GW for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:25:32 -0500 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izy04-00033N-1A for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:25:32 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Dec 2007 17:25:30 -0000 Received: from dhcp-16c7.ietf70.org (EHLO [130.129.22.199]) [130.129.22.199] by mail.gmx.net (mp055) with SMTP; 05 Dec 2007 18:25:30 +0100 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18d9+M68TEdy84lo3ZriQN7PH/mKHv2YYIL2KT5hE 2dflmYANFfU55H Message-ID: <4756DF0A.2010706@gmx.net> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:25:30 +0100 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: GEOPRIV , ECRIT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Cc: Subject: [Geopriv] Pub? X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Interested in going to a pub together on Thursday evening? We are going to meet after the plenary in front of the IETF Registration Desk Please indicate your preference here: http://www.doodle.ch/6p9er8b3hnyinqg8 Ciao Hannes _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 13:16:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izyn7-0002D3-6d; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:16:13 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Izyn4-00027T-I3 for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:16:10 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izyn4-000260-5L for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:16:10 -0500 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izyn1-0003qW-4o for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:16:10 -0500 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 16D5C21497; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:13:42 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-af6a0bb00000459d-fc-4756ea555501 Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.124]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id EE30720231; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:13:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.171]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:13:41 +0100 Received: from mail.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.50]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:13:41 +0100 Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.33.3]) by mail.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F902467; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:13:41 +0200 (EET) Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41304DC50; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:13:38 +0200 (EET) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390BC4DC4F; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:13:37 +0200 (EET) Subject: RE: [Geopriv] Re: Review of draft-busin-geopriv-location-qos-req-01 From: Salvatore Loreto To: "Thomson, Martin" In-Reply-To: References: <4748272F.9070701@gmx.net> <1196427672.4441.43.camel@n65.nomadiclab.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:13:38 +0200 Message-Id: <1196878418.4401.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.8.3 (2.8.3-2.fc6) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 18:13:41.0540 (UTC) FILETIME=[90CBDE40:01C8376A] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: 3a331e4a192f4d33f18e6f8376287cf6 Cc: geopriv@ietf.org X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Hi Martin, thanks for your comments, here some first considerations. Of course, we are well aware the subject it is not so simple and it needs to be discussed largely. But also we do believe we have to discuss it. regards Sal On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 22:17 -0600, Thomson, Martin wrote: > Hi Sal, >=20 > I have responses to some (not all) of your comments below. >=20 > Thanks, > Martin >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Salvatore Loreto [mailto:salvatore.loreto@ericsson.com] > > Sent: Saturday, 1 December 2007 12:01 AM > > To: Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net > > Cc: geopriv@ietf.org > > Subject: [Geopriv] Re: Review of draft-busin-geopriv-location-qos-req= -01 > >=20 > > Hi Hannes, > >=20 > > thanks for your thorough review and useful comments. > >=20 > > see our answers in line > >=20 > > ciao > > Sal > >=20 > > On Sat, 2007-11-24 at 14:29 +0100, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > > > Hi Salvatore, Aeke, Yufeng, Miran, > > > > > > thanks for the draft update and for considering feedback provided > > earlier. > > > > > > I read through draft-busin-geopriv-location-qos-req-01 again and h= ave a > > > couple > > > of comments. > > > > > > > > > -- Technical > > > > > > The resulting Location Information is conveyed in existing locat= ion > > > formats wrapped in GEOPRIV privacy extensions to the Presence > > > Information Document Format (PIDF-LO) [RFC4119]. > > > > > > > > > [hannes] I guess you need to say more than that. > > > Reading through the document I got the impression that you would wa= nt to > > > extend the LCP and the LDP to carry the location QoS parameters in = the > > > request and then you want a PIDF-LO back that may contain additiona= l > > > information. For example, for the response time in the request ther= e > > will > > > not be a change in the PIDF-LO itself (expect for the method field = since > > > a different location determination technique was used, for example)= . > >=20 > >=20 > > [Sal] yes you are correct, our idea is to extend the LCP and the LDP= to > > carry the location QoS parameters in the request. > > However, in the meanwhile, we don't see the necessity to modify PIDF-= LO > > itself, as the QoS achieved can be induced from the existing > > information. For example, the age can be induced with timestamp, and = the > > accuracy can be induced from the uncertainty area (described with > > geometry object). > >=20 > > > > > > > > > ### Accuracy: > > > > > > You list two parameters for accuracy: > > > o horizontal accuracy > > > o vertical accuracy > > > > > > The term "accuracy" has provided a lot of confusion in the past. > > > Are you sure you mean accuracy or rather confidence. See the discus= sion > > in > > > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/geopriv/draft-thomson-geopriv-uncertainty- > > 00.txt > > > regarding this topic. > >=20 > >=20 > > [Sal] > > "accuracy", "uncertainty area" and "level of confidence" are relevant > > concepts. > >=20 > > Our intention is to use "accuracy" to describe the required level fro= m > > the application perspective, so that proper position determination > > technology can be chosen by the location server. > > "uncertainty" and "confidence" is more suitable to described achieved > > level (for example if a circle is returned in a PIDF-LO, it refers to > > the uncertainty area), however it's not so easy to describe the > > required level with "uncertainty" and "confidence", > > how to describe the uncertainty area before the actual location is > > retrieved? >=20 > [MT] I find the current definition falls short of being implementable.= The same problem exists with 3GPP specifications,=20 > which I have found need a great deal of additional (read: proprietary) = interpretation. For a given location estimate,=20 > uncertainty can be expressed in several ways; for instance, 30m radius = at 60% or 100m at 90%. Comparing this against a requested=20 > "horizontal accuracy" (I prefer "target uncertainty" because it is a mo= re precise term) of 50m is impossible without further context.=20 > That is, you need to know both the target uncertainty and the target co= nfidence to properly evaluate whether the estimate is accurate enough. >=20 > [MT] I think that this area needs to be expanded. Firstly, irrespectiv= e of requested "horizontal accuracy", a client should be able to request = a certain confidence.=20 > A server, as a Location Generator, is better capable of adjusting regio= ns of uncertainty to match a given confidence, since they have the additi= onal information necessary=20 > to do this. >=20 > [MT] In addition to this, a client should be able to either specify how= , or at least know how, the server is evaluating their "accuracy". =20 > That is, the uncertainty is evaluated at a confidence that is either sp= ecified by the client or established in standards. >=20 > > We can not simply include the "confidence" in the request as well, fo= r > > example, we can not just require "confidence over 95%" in the request > > for an kid tracking application, an answer with location information > > that states "child is in Sweeden" fulfill the requirement of 95% > > confidence, but possibly useless.=20 >=20 > [MT] It is up to the user/client to decide whether that information is = useless or not.=20 > They know their requirements best, and so should structure their reques= ts so that they=20 > get information in the form that best suits them. For that reason, we n= eed to get the definitions right. [Sal] yes, I can't that agree "uncertainty" is a more correct term than "accuracy".=20 "Accuracy" is a term inherited from the 3GPP specs.=20 It is not a problem at all from our point of view rename if it. [Sal] MT you are correct in that a Confidence level is needed.=20 The problem is that in none of the 3GPP LCS, OMA SUPL or OMS MLP specifications have capability to define confidence in the request. Instead it the positioning determination mechanism has an (implementation specific) setting of Confidence. It is then assumed that the application is aware of what confidence is used.=20 This has shown to be a far from perfect solution but has so far not caused enough problems to initiate extensions to the specs.=20 Thus the main problem with introducing confidence is that the location server cannot (at least for the moment) forward it to the positioning determination entity. Don't think this is a show stopper but if it's allowed to respond with another confidence level the it acceptable to include a requested confidence in the QoS. >=20 > > > > > > ### Response Time: > > > > > > As an example, is the functionality in Section 6.1. of > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-locatio= n- > > delivery-03.txt > > > what you have in mind? > >=20 > >=20 > > [SAL] Well, a similar meaning. In mentioned draft it is defined as th= e > > time that Device is prepared to wait for a response, while we defined= it > > as the time on Location Server in which it has to (or should) send a > > response. > > The reason why we use this later definition is because we assume that > > Location Server (or LIS in HELD case) cannot estimate how long will t= he > > response travel through the network to the recipient (or Device). > >=20 >=20 > [MT] "Low delay" and "delay tolerant" are too vague to be useful. If im= plementations are to interoperate, they need to have a shared understandi= ng=20 > of what each token means. Hence the fact the HELD has a definitive val= ue. Note that a LIS is not expected to estimate times for network traver= sal, > it should be applying the value when a request is received. [Sal] Sorry, but we do not use low delay or delay tolerant in the draft. So I don't see your point here. >=20 > [MT] A second note on this is the application of response time to SIP s= ubscriptions. I'd be interested in knowing how this value applies to not= ifications. [Sal] For SIP subscription it is not of much use.=20 A definition could be "Time from when condition of reporting has occurred to notification being sent" >=20 > > > ### QoS class > > > > > > To me this seems to correspond to the functionality listed in Secti= on > > > 6.2.1. of > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-locatio= n- > > delivery-03.txt > > > regarding the "exact" attribute > >=20 > >=20 > > [Sal]: Yes, it has similar functionality, but it's used to complement > > different parameter. > > It is referring only to the degree of adherence of location Type > > parameter (geodetic, civic, any). > > We propose the QoS class to define the degree of adherence of horizon= tal > > and vertical accuracy, response time, and age parameters. >=20 > [MT] I'd like a more stringent definition of what you have in mind. In = my view, the QoS is either met or not.=20 > Recent 3GPP standards introduce a concept that is worth reusing. The "= Accuracy Fulfillment Indicator" places=20 > control in the hands of the client by ensuring that location informatio= n is always provided, but with an indication of whether QoS was met. >=20 > > > ### Age > > > > > > Regarding "age" we currently have only the following functionality > > defined: > > > See Section 4.2 of > > > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/geopriv/draft-winterbottom-geopriv-held- > > context-01.txt > > > This section defines the concept of snapshot URIs, i.e., when the T= arget > > > (or an entity > > > on his/her behalf) requests a location URI then it may express > > > additional constraints. > > > In this case it means that the location URI reveals only the locati= on of > > > the Target > > > at the time when the location URI was created. > > > > > > Reading through that part of the > > > draft-winterbottom-geopriv-held-context-01.txt document I realized = that > > > it wasn't > > > described in such a way that one could use it with the LDP as well.= This > > > is certainly > > > not nice. > >=20 > > [Sal] > > "age" is used to limit the freshness of the location information > > included in the response message, can be express like "Provide me the > > current or last known location of the target if the known location > > information is not older than ..." (as long as other QoS defined are > > met) >=20 > [MT] Age is a useful parameter when caching is involved. Providing thi= s parameter can tell a LIS whether or not to re-calculate location inform= ation.=20 > We haven't talked about caching to date. >=20 > > > > > > I do wonder, however, what values for age would be reasonable. > > > Currently, we > > > essentially only have two states, namely: > > > a) Provide me the location of the Target at the time > > > when the location URI was created. > > > b) Provide me the current location of the Target. > > > > > > You seem to desire more functionality. Could you be a bit more spec= ific > > > of what you > > > would like to see? > > > > > > When the response is sent then it includes a timestamp field. This > > > timestamp in > > > the PIDF-LO indicates when the PIDF-LO document was created. Is thi= s > > > indication > > > good enough for you? > >=20 > > [Sal] Yes > >=20 > >=20 > > > > > > > 1.1) Geopriv MUST specify Location QoS Information, both in syn= tax > > > and semantics, that SHOULD be insert in the LCP and LDP reque= st; > > > the Location QoS information MUST be supported and understood= by > > > the Location Recipient and the Location Server. > > > > > > It is not entirely correct to say GEOPRIV here since the requiremen= ts > > > refer to a > > > specific protocol. Hence, it would be useful to list the protocol t= hat > > > needs to > > > have the extension defined. You may add this information to Req. 2. > > > > > > Since the Location QoS Information is supposed to be an optional > > > extension one > > > cannot mandate that it is understood by the Location Recipient and = the > > > Location Server. > >=20 > >=20 > > [Sal]: this is maybe misinterpreted. > > The presence of the Location QoS Information is optional not the > > extension =E2=80=93 meaning, if Location QoS Information is not prese= nt in the > > request, the Location Server may return Location Information with any > > quality. > > If Location QoS Information is present, the Location Server must know > > what this means and act accordingly. > > If Location Server does not understand this information it should ret= urn > > an error indication. > > Maybe this is not so clear in the draft so we should add these senten= ces > > to the Requirements chapter. >=20 > [MT] I don't like this approach because it forces servers to implement = QoS support. A client that expects a failure if QoS is not=20 > met is likely to make assumptions, which do not hold when the server do= esn't understand the extension. As a protocol extension,=20 > it should be optionally supported by all parties. [Sal] yes sure, but if we let it to be optional also in the server, we have to define a way to let the client aware if the server support it or not. I mean, if we consider the QoS be optionally supported by all parties, which is the correct behavior when a Client request a location with QoS to a Servet that doesn't support QoS? should the server reply with something error like not supported extension? or instead it should provide the location adding just a parameter or a tag saying "this location has been calculate without taking care of the QoS because I don't understand it" >=20 > >=20 > > > > > > > > > Ciao > > > Hannes > > > > >=20 > >=20 >=20 > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------- > This message is for the designated recipient only and may > contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. =20 > If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of > this email is prohibited. > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------- > [mf2] _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From Bree.lenz@beaksandnoses.org Wed Dec 05 13:42:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzCE-0003va-1M for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:42:10 -0500 Received: from 088156096130.stk.vectranet.pl ([88.156.96.130]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzCD-0001kX-85 for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:42:09 -0500 Received: by 10.239.137.212 with SMTP id PaTTpjqAznKXt; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:42:17 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.184.49 with SMTP id VgezswUWJENUyY.8332087452598; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:42:15 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <0D5921A6.009A7867@beaksandnoses.org> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:42:12 +0100 From: "Bree lenz" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: suivusev Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Good day geopriv-archive Dream to be a hero in her bed? http://grandmorning.com Bree lenz From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 15:27:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00q5-0007Tj-7P; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:27:25 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J00q3-0007NC-BG for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:27:23 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00q3-0007Lr-08 for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:27:23 -0500 Received: from zcars04f.nortel.com ([47.129.242.57]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00q2-0003fi-JE for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:27:22 -0500 Received: from zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com (zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com [47.103.123.72]) by zcars04f.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id lB5KQs726724; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:26:55 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:24:20 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0C0042B2-351C-4807-955D-72422111AD92@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: AcgzApwkooDWmo2QQQaJ8PwQ/A92lwEarI3g References: <0C0042B2-351C-4807-955D-72422111AD92@cisco.com> From: "Mary Barnes" To: "Cullen Jennings" , "GEOPRIV" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Hi Cullen, Thanks for your comments. A few responses and question (for the WG) embedded below [MB]. Mary. -----Original Message----- From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:39 PM To: GEOPRIV Subject: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Few trivial nits in document clarity ... I found The HELD protocol uses the IP address of the Device as an identifier in determining the location of the device. somewhat misleading and might suggest rewording. Perhaps something like The LIS uses the source IP address of the request sent from the Device as an identifier in determining the location of the device. [MB] Sounds good. In section 4.1.1. do we need to say anything about devices that move after the VPN is up? I don't care, just an idea. [MB] I don't have an opinion either. Do other people have views? In section 6.1, it was not clear to me until I looked at the schema that this could be either the number value or the enumerated type. =20 For the numeric value, just having it be an integer in mili seconds might make some people happier than using floating point. [MB] Good point. I'll add the appropriate text to 6.1 and change the type to "nonNegativeInteger" unless someone sees a reason for a decimal value. [/MB] Cullen _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 15:37:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J010F-0008Le-JR; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:37:55 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J010E-0008LQ-E8 for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:37:54 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J010D-0008L8-Ro for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:37:53 -0500 Received: from ebru.winwebhosting.com ([74.54.111.226]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J010B-0000KN-K5 for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:37:53 -0500 Received: from [209.173.53.233] (helo=BROSLT41xp) by ebru.winwebhosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J0102-0007zN-C5; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:37:43 -0600 From: "Brian Rosen" To: "'Mary Barnes'" , "'Cullen Jennings'" , "'GEOPRIV'" References: <0C0042B2-351C-4807-955D-72422111AD92@cisco.com> Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:37:46 -0500 Message-ID: <0b7701c8377e$b4553870$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcgzApwkooDWmo2QQQaJ8PwQ/A92lwEarI3gAARNvZA= In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ebru.winwebhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - brianrosen.net X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org If a device is mobile, and is connected via a non-bypassable VPN, then it better use a reference obtained before the VPN comes up. I have no idea how you ensure that. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mary.barnes@nortel.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:24 PM > To: Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV > Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > Hi Cullen, > > Thanks for your comments. A few responses and question (for the WG) > embedded below [MB]. > > Mary. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:39 PM > To: GEOPRIV > Subject: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > > Few trivial nits in document clarity ... > > I found > The HELD protocol uses the IP address of the Device as an identifier > in determining the location of the device. > somewhat misleading and might suggest rewording. Perhaps something like > The LIS uses the source IP address of the request sent from the > Device as an identifier > in determining the location of the device. > [MB] Sounds good. > > In section 4.1.1. do we need to say anything about devices that move > after the VPN is up? I don't care, just an idea. > [MB] I don't have an opinion either. Do other people have views? > > In section 6.1, it was not clear to me until I looked at the schema that > this could be either the number value or the enumerated type. > For the numeric value, just having it be an integer in mili seconds > might make some people happier than using floating point. > [MB] Good point. I'll add the appropriate text to 6.1 and change the > type to "nonNegativeInteger" unless someone sees a reason for a decimal > value. 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------=_NextPart_000_119E5_01C83788.D826CAC0-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 19:02:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04Bu-0001Vy-56; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:02:10 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J04Bs-0001Vh-Q6 for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:02:08 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04Bs-0001VY-GU for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:02:08 -0500 Received: from smtp3.andrew.com ([198.135.207.235] helo=andrew.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04Bq-0003zy-SV for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:02:08 -0500 X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2007_12_05_18_13_05 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from acdcexbh1.andrew.com [10.86.20.91] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:13:04 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by acdcexbh1.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:02:06 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:02:05 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0b7701c8377e$b4553870$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: AcgzApwkooDWmo2QQQaJ8PwQ/A92lwEarI3gAARNvZAAByfIIA== References: <0C0042B2-351C-4807-955D-72422111AD92@cisco.com> <0b7701c8377e$b4553870$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> From: "Winterbottom, James" To: "Brian Rosen" , "Mary Barnes" , "Cullen Jennings" , "GEOPRIV" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 00:02:06.0472 (UTC) FILETIME=[3D1B5880:01C8379B] X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org This is not a HELD specific problem, and is equally applicable to DHCP.=0D=0A=0D= =0A> -----Original Message-----=0D=0A> From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianro= sen.net]=0D=0A> Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 7:38 AM=0D=0A> To: 'Mary Ba= rnes'; 'Cullen Jennings'; 'GEOPRIV'=0D=0A> Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-iet= f-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> If a device is mobile,= and is connected via a non-bypassable VPN, then=0D=0Ait=0D=0A> better use = a reference obtained before the VPN comes up.=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> I have no id= ea how you ensure that.=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> Brian=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> > -----Orig= inal Message-----=0D=0A> > From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mary.barnes@nortel.com= ]=0D=0A> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:24 PM=0D=0A> > To: Cullen J= ennings; GEOPRIV=0D=0A> > Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-lo= cation-delivery-03=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > Hi Cullen,=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > Thanks fo= r your comments. A few responses and question (for the WG)=0D=0A> > embedd= ed below [MB].=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > Mary.=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > -----Original Mess= age-----=0D=0A> > From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com]=0D=0A> > = Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:39 PM=0D=0A> > To: GEOPRIV=0D=0A> > Sub= ject: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> >=0D=0A= > >=0D=0A> > Few trivial nits in document clarity ...=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > I f= ound=0D=0A> > The HELD protocol uses the IP address of the Device as an=0D= =0Aidentifier=0D=0A> > in determining the location of the device.=0D=0A= > > somewhat misleading and might suggest rewording. Perhaps something=0D=0A= like=0D=0A> > The LIS uses the source IP address of the request sent fro= m the=0D=0A> > Device as an identifier=0D=0A> > in determining the loca= tion of the device.=0D=0A> > [MB] Sounds good.=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > In section= 4.1.1. do we need to say anything about devices that move=0D=0A> > after t= he VPN is up=3F I don't care, just an idea.=0D=0A> > [MB] I don't have an o= pinion either. Do other people have views=3F=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > In section = 6.1, it was not clear to me until I looked at the schema=0D=0Athat=0D=0A> >= this could be either the number value or the enumerated type.=0D=0A> > For= the numeric value, just having it be an integer in mili seconds=0D=0A> > m= ight make some people happier than using floating point.=0D=0A> > [MB] Good= point. I'll add the appropriate text to 6.1 and change=0D=0Athe=0D=0A> > = type to "nonNegativeInteger" unless someone sees a reason for a=0D=0Adecima= l=0D=0A> > value. [/MB]=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > Cullen =0D=0A> >=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > __________________________________= _____________=0D=0A> > Geopriv mailing list=0D=0A> > Geopriv@ietf.org=0D=0A= > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> >=0D=0A>= > _______________________________________________=0D=0A> > Geopriv mailing= list=0D=0A> > Geopriv@ietf.org=0D=0A> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/geopriv=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> _________________________= ______________________=0D=0A> Geopriv mailing list=0D=0A> Geopriv@ietf.org=0D= =0A> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv=0D=0A=0D=0A------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------=0D=0AThis message is for the designated recipient only and may=0D= =0Acontain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. =20=0D= =0AIf you have received it in error, please notify the sender=0D=0Aimmediat= ely and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of=0D=0Athis email is pr= ohibited.=0D=0A------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------=0D=0A[mf2]=0D=0A _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 19:36:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04jI-0007A3-7N; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:36:40 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J04jH-00079t-LY for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:36:39 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04jH-00079j-Ab for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:36:39 -0500 Received: from ebru.winwebhosting.com ([74.54.111.226]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04jG-0003jB-Le for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:36:39 -0500 Received: from [209.173.53.233] (helo=BROSLT41xp) by ebru.winwebhosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J04j5-0006BH-Lv; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:36:28 -0600 From: "Brian Rosen" To: "'Winterbottom, James'" , "'Mary Barnes'" , "'Cullen Jennings'" , "'GEOPRIV'" References: <0C0042B2-351C-4807-955D-72422111AD92@cisco.com> <0b7701c8377e$b4553870$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:36:30 -0500 Message-ID: <0c0101c837a0$0f6d1040$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcgzApwkooDWmo2QQQaJ8PwQ/A92lwEarI3gAARNvZAAByfIIAABKTGA In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ebru.winwebhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - brianrosen.net X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d2e37451f7f22841e3b6f40c67db0f Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org It's true, and deserves some text in DHCP options if we open that up again. I do think that given current realities, HELD is more likely to be used in mobile environments that don't use MLP, but you are still correct. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Winterbottom, James [mailto:James.Winterbottom@andrew.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:02 PM > To: Brian Rosen; Mary Barnes; Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV > Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > This is not a HELD specific problem, and is equally applicable to DHCP. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] > > Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 7:38 AM > > To: 'Mary Barnes'; 'Cullen Jennings'; 'GEOPRIV' > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > > > If a device is mobile, and is connected via a non-bypassable VPN, then > it > > better use a reference obtained before the VPN comes up. > > > > I have no idea how you ensure that. > > > > Brian > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mary.barnes@nortel.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:24 PM > > > To: Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV > > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > > > > > Hi Cullen, > > > > > > Thanks for your comments. A few responses and question (for the WG) > > > embedded below [MB]. > > > > > > Mary. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:39 PM > > > To: GEOPRIV > > > Subject: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > > > > > > > > Few trivial nits in document clarity ... > > > > > > I found > > > The HELD protocol uses the IP address of the Device as an > identifier > > > in determining the location of the device. > > > somewhat misleading and might suggest rewording. Perhaps something > like > > > The LIS uses the source IP address of the request sent from the > > > Device as an identifier > > > in determining the location of the device. > > > [MB] Sounds good. > > > > > > In section 4.1.1. do we need to say anything about devices that move > > > after the VPN is up? I don't care, just an idea. > > > [MB] I don't have an opinion either. Do other people have views? > > > > > > In section 6.1, it was not clear to me until I looked at the schema > that > > > this could be either the number value or the enumerated type. > > > For the numeric value, just having it be an integer in mili seconds > > > might make some people happier than using floating point. > > > [MB] Good point. I'll add the appropriate text to 6.1 and change > the > > > type to "nonNegativeInteger" unless someone sees a reason for a > decimal > > > value. [/MB] > > > > > > Cullen > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Geopriv mailing list > > > Geopriv@ietf.org > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Geopriv mailing list > > > Geopriv@ietf.org > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Geopriv mailing list > > Geopriv@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------- > This message is for the designated recipient only and may > contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. > If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of > this email is prohibited. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------- > [mf2] _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 19:54:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J050U-0008Am-SN; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:54:26 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J050T-00082A-EI for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:54:25 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J050S-0007uJ-Ra for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:54:24 -0500 Received: from smtp3.andrew.com ([198.135.207.235] helo=andrew.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J050S-0005IR-7l for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:54:24 -0500 X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2007_12_05_19_05_20 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from acdcexbh1.andrew.com [10.86.20.91] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:05:19 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by acdcexbh1.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:54:21 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:54:19 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0c0101c837a0$0f6d1040$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: AcgzApwkooDWmo2QQQaJ8PwQ/A92lwEarI3gAARNvZAAByfIIAABKTGAAACs8iA= References: <0C0042B2-351C-4807-955D-72422111AD92@cisco.com> <0b7701c8377e$b4553870$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> <0c0101c837a0$0f6d1040$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> From: "Winterbottom, James" To: "Brian Rosen" , "Mary Barnes" , "Cullen Jennings" , "GEOPRIV" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 00:54:21.0454 (UTC) FILETIME=[89B3A2E0:01C837A2] X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org MLP isn't used by end-devices and I think never will be.=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A>= -----Original Message-----=0D=0A> From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.= net]=0D=0A> Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 11:37 AM=0D=0A> To: Winterbotto= m, James; 'Mary Barnes'; 'Cullen Jennings'; 'GEOPRIV'=0D=0A> Subject: RE: [= Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> It's= true, and deserves some text in DHCP options if we open that up=0D=0A> aga= in.=0D=0A> I do think that given current realities, HELD is more likely to = be=0D=0Aused in=0D=0A> mobile environments that don't use MLP, but you are = still correct.=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> Brian=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> > -----Original Mess= age-----=0D=0A> > From: Winterbottom, James [mailto:James.Winterbottom@andr= ew.com]=0D=0A> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:02 PM=0D=0A> > To: Br= ian Rosen; Mary Barnes; Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV=0D=0A> > Subject: RE: [Geo= priv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > This i= s not a HELD specific problem, and is equally applicable to=0D=0ADHCP.=0D=0A= > >=0D=0A> > > -----Original Message-----=0D=0A> > > From: Brian Rosen [mai= lto:br@brianrosen.net]=0D=0A> > > Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 7:38 AM=0D= =0A> > > To: 'Mary Barnes'; 'Cullen Jennings'; 'GEOPRIV'=0D=0A> > > Subject= : RE: [Geopriv]=0D=0Adraft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> > = >=0D=0A> > > If a device is mobile, and is connected via a non-bypassable V= PN,=0D=0Athen=0D=0A> > it=0D=0A> > > better use a reference obtained before= the VPN comes up.=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A> > > I have no idea how you ensure that= =2E=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A> > > Brian=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A> > > > -----Original Messa= ge-----=0D=0A> > > > From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mary.barnes@nortel.com]=0D=0A= > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:24 PM=0D=0A> > > > To: Cullen = Jennings; GEOPRIV=0D=0A> > > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv]=0D=0Adraft-ietf-geopr= iv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > Hi Cullen,=0D=0A> > = > >=0D=0A> > > > Thanks for your comments. A few responses and question (f= or the=0D=0AWG)=0D=0A> > > > embedded below [MB].=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > >= Mary.=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > -----Original Message-----=0D=0A> > > > Fr= om: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com]=0D=0A> > > > Sent: Thursday, = November 29, 2007 9:39 PM=0D=0A> > > > To: GEOPRIV=0D=0A> > > > Subject: [G= eopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > = > >=0D=0A> > > > Few trivial nits in document clarity ...=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A= > > > > I found=0D=0A> > > > The HELD protocol uses the IP address of th= e Device as an=0D=0A> > identifier=0D=0A> > > > in determining the loca= tion of the device.=0D=0A> > > > somewhat misleading and might suggest rewo= rding. Perhaps=0D=0Asomething=0D=0A> > like=0D=0A> > > > The LIS uses th= e source IP address of the request sent from=0D=0Athe=0D=0A> > > > Device a= s an identifier=0D=0A> > > > in determining the location of the device.=0D= =0A> > > > [MB] Sounds good.=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > In section 4.1.1. do= we need to say anything about devices that=0D=0Amove=0D=0A> > > > after th= e VPN is up=3F I don't care, just an idea.=0D=0A> > > > [MB] I don't have a= n opinion either. Do other people have=0D=0Aviews=3F=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> >= > > In section 6.1, it was not clear to me until I looked at the=0D=0Asche= ma=0D=0A> > that=0D=0A> > > > this could be either the number value or the = enumerated type.=0D=0A> > > > For the numeric value, just having it be an i= nteger in mili=0D=0Aseconds=0D=0A> > > > might make some people happier tha= n using floating point.=0D=0A> > > > [MB] Good point. I'll add the appropr= iate text to 6.1 and=0D=0Achange=0D=0A> > the=0D=0A> > > > type to "nonNega= tiveInteger" unless someone sees a reason for a=0D=0A> > decimal=0D=0A> > >= > value. [/MB]=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > Cullen =0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > ______________________= _________________________=0D=0A> > > > Geopriv mailing list=0D=0A> > > > Ge= opriv@ietf.org=0D=0A> > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv=0D= =0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > ______________________________________= _________=0D=0A> > > > Geopriv mailing list=0D=0A> > > > Geopriv@ietf.org=0D= =0A> > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A>= > >=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A> > > _______________________________________________=0D= =0A> > > Geopriv mailing list=0D=0A> > > Geopriv@ietf.org=0D=0A> > > https:= //www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> >=0D=0A-----------= -------------------------------------------------------------=0D=0A> --=0D=0A= > > ----------------------=0D=0A> > This message is for the designated reci= pient only and may=0D=0A> > contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise p= rivate information.=0D=0A> > If you have received it in error, please notif= y the sender=0D=0A> > immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorize= d use of=0D=0A> > this email is prohibited.=0D=0A> >=0D=0A-----------------= -------------------------------------------------------=0D=0A> --=0D=0A> > = ----------------------=0D=0A> > [mf2]=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A=0D=0A----------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----=0D=0AThis message is for the designated recipient only and may=0D=0Ac= ontain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. =20=0D=0A= If you have received it in error, please notify the sender=0D=0Aimmediately= and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of=0D=0Athis email is prohi= bited.=0D=0A---------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------=0D=0A[mf2]=0D=0A _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 20:02:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J058Q-0003mV-3G; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:02:38 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J058O-0003lv-PY for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:02:36 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J058O-0003lk-EK; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:02:36 -0500 Received: from smtp.mitel.com ([216.191.234.102]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J058N-0005xE-VP; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:02:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (smtp.mitel.com [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.mitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB772C04B; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:02:35 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new (virusonly) at mitel.com Received: from smtp.mitel.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.mitel.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KZDIE42Knv0j; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:02:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from kanmta01.mitel.com (kanmta01 [134.199.37.58]) by smtp.mitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F41C2C027; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:02:34 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <4756DF0A.2010706@gmx.net> To: Hannes Tschofenig MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.5 November 30, 2005 Message-ID: From: peter_blatherwick@mitel.com Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:02:32 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on kanmta01/Mitel(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 12/05/2007 08:02:33 PM, Serialize complete at 12/05/2007 08:02:33 PM X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a Cc: GEOPRIV , ECRIT Subject: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub? X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1508958255==" Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1508958255== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0005B9B0852573A9_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0005B9B0852573A9_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I do not know whether I will make it but ... Best local beer is to be had at The Steamworks Brewing Company. In-house brewed, and good pub-grub. A bit of a walk, about 2 x distance to Marriott / Renaissance hotels. (The stagger back could be somewhat longer q;*) 375 Water Street http://www.steamworks.com/ Note there are 3 of them these days, apparently -- go to the original as above, where they make the brew. BTW, downstairs tends to be a bit quieter... -- Peter Blatherwick Hannes Tschofenig 05.12.07 12:25 To: GEOPRIV , ECRIT cc: Subject: [Ecrit] Pub? Interested in going to a pub together on Thursday evening? We are going to meet after the plenary in front of the IETF Registration Desk Please indicate your preference here: http://www.doodle.ch/6p9er8b3hnyinqg8 < http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/derefer?TYPE=3&DEST=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doodle.ch%2F6p9er8b3hnyinqg8 > Ciao Hannes _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit --=_alternative 0005B9B0852573A9_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I do not know whether I will make it but ... Best local beer is to be had at The Steamworks Brewing Company. In-house brewed, and good pub-grub. A bit of a walk, about 2 x distance to Marriott / Renaissance hotels. (The stagger back could be somewhat longer q;*)

375 Water Street
http://www.steamworks.com/

Note there are 3 of them these days, apparently -- go to the original as above, where they make the brew.

BTW, downstairs tends to be a bit quieter...

-- Peter Blatherwick

Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net>

05.12.07 12:25

To: GEOPRIV <geopriv@ietf.org>, ECRIT <ecrit@ietf.org>
cc:
Subject: [Ecrit] Pub?

Interested in going to a pub together on Thursday evening? We are going to meet after the plenary in front of the IETF Registration Desk Please indicate your preference here: http://www.doodle.ch/6p9er8b3hnyinqg8 <http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/derefer?TYPE=3&DEST=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doodle.ch%2F6p9er8b3hnyinqg8> Ciao Hannes _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit
--=_alternative 0005B9B0852573A9_=-- --===============1508958255== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv --===============1508958255==-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 20:02:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J058S-0003pN-GK; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:02:40 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J058R-0003oN-7B for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:02:39 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J058Q-0003oD-TJ for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:02:38 -0500 Received: from ebru.winwebhosting.com ([74.54.111.226]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J058P-0000ko-3R for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:02:38 -0500 Received: from [209.173.53.233] (helo=BROSLT41xp) by ebru.winwebhosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J058D-0008EX-JH; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:02:26 -0600 From: "Brian Rosen" To: "'Winterbottom, James'" , "'Mary Barnes'" , "'Cullen Jennings'" , "'GEOPRIV'" References: <0C0042B2-351C-4807-955D-72422111AD92@cisco.com> <0b7701c8377e$b4553870$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> <0c0101c837a0$0f6d1040$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:02:27 -0500 Message-ID: <0c0f01c837a3$b06539c0$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcgzApwkooDWmo2QQQaJ8PwQ/A92lwEarI3gAARNvZAAByfIIAABKTGAAACs8iAAADV2MA== In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ebru.winwebhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - brianrosen.net X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd3fc8e909678b38737fc606dec187f0 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org I meant that IMS like systems would do proxy insertion and thus the issues would not arise. That would use MLP, right? However, those same systems will need to support something for packet services (think MSN Messenger on a raw packet service), and they will need something also, and proxy insertion may not be practical there. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Winterbottom, James [mailto:James.Winterbottom@andrew.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:54 PM > To: Brian Rosen; Mary Barnes; Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV > Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > MLP isn't used by end-devices and I think never will be. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] > > Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 11:37 AM > > To: Winterbottom, James; 'Mary Barnes'; 'Cullen Jennings'; 'GEOPRIV' > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > > > It's true, and deserves some text in DHCP options if we open that up > > again. > > I do think that given current realities, HELD is more likely to be > used in > > mobile environments that don't use MLP, but you are still correct. > > > > Brian > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Winterbottom, James [mailto:James.Winterbottom@andrew.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:02 PM > > > To: Brian Rosen; Mary Barnes; Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV > > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > > > > > This is not a HELD specific problem, and is equally applicable to > DHCP. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net] > > > > Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 7:38 AM > > > > To: 'Mary Barnes'; 'Cullen Jennings'; 'GEOPRIV' > > > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv] > draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > > > > > > > If a device is mobile, and is connected via a non-bypassable VPN, > then > > > it > > > > better use a reference obtained before the VPN comes up. > > > > > > > > I have no idea how you ensure that. > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mary.barnes@nortel.com] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:24 PM > > > > > To: Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV > > > > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv] > draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > > > > > > > > > Hi Cullen, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your comments. A few responses and question (for the > WG) > > > > > embedded below [MB]. > > > > > > > > > > Mary. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:39 PM > > > > > To: GEOPRIV > > > > > Subject: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Few trivial nits in document clarity ... > > > > > > > > > > I found > > > > > The HELD protocol uses the IP address of the Device as an > > > identifier > > > > > in determining the location of the device. > > > > > somewhat misleading and might suggest rewording. Perhaps > something > > > like > > > > > The LIS uses the source IP address of the request sent from > the > > > > > Device as an identifier > > > > > in determining the location of the device. > > > > > [MB] Sounds good. > > > > > > > > > > In section 4.1.1. do we need to say anything about devices that > move > > > > > after the VPN is up? I don't care, just an idea. > > > > > [MB] I don't have an opinion either. Do other people have > views? > > > > > > > > > > In section 6.1, it was not clear to me until I looked at the > schema > > > that > > > > > this could be either the number value or the enumerated type. > > > > > For the numeric value, just having it be an integer in mili > seconds > > > > > might make some people happier than using floating point. > > > > > [MB] Good point. I'll add the appropriate text to 6.1 and > change > > > the > > > > > type to "nonNegativeInteger" unless someone sees a reason for a > > > decimal > > > > > value. [/MB] > > > > > > > > > > Cullen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Geopriv mailing list > > > > > Geopriv@ietf.org > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Geopriv mailing list > > > > > Geopriv@ietf.org > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Geopriv mailing list > > > > Geopriv@ietf.org > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- > > > ---------------------- > > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may > > > contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. > > > If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > > > immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of > > > this email is prohibited. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- > > > ---------------------- > > > [mf2] > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------- > This message is for the designated recipient only and may > contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. > If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of > this email is prohibited. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------- > [mf2] _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 20:03:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J058r-00042v-Pq; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:03:05 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J058r-00041G-Aj for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:03:05 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J058q-000416-TF for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:03:05 -0500 Received: from smtp3.andrew.com ([198.135.207.235] helo=andrew.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J058q-0005zf-3h for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:03:04 -0500 X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2007_12_05_19_14_02 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from aopexbh2.andrew.com [10.86.20.25] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:14:01 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by aopexbh2.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:03:03 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:03:01 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: AcgzApwkooDWmo2QQQaJ8PwQ/A92lwEarI3gAARNvZAAByfIIAABKTGAAACs8iAAADmygA== References: <0C0042B2-351C-4807-955D-72422111AD92@cisco.com><0b7701c8377e$b4553870$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com><0c0101c837a0$0f6d1040$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> From: "Winterbottom, James" To: "Winterbottom, James" , "Brian Rosen" , "Mary Barnes" , "Cullen Jennings" , "GEOPRIV" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 01:03:03.0329 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0C37110:01C837A3] X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Perhaps the way forward is to suggest that for device that may be mobile=0D= =0Athey should request both a location URI and a location value. That way=0D= =0Athey always have a means to get to their location.=0D=0A=0D=0A> -----Ori= ginal Message-----=0D=0A> From: Winterbottom, James [mailto:James.Winterbot= tom@andrew.com]=0D=0A> Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 11:54 AM=0D=0A> To: = Brian Rosen; Mary Barnes; Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV=0D=0A> Subject: RE: [Geo= priv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> MLP isn= 't used by end-devices and I think never will be.=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A= > > -----Original Message-----=0D=0A> > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianr= osen.net]=0D=0A> > Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 11:37 AM=0D=0A> > To: Wi= nterbottom, James; 'Mary Barnes'; 'Cullen Jennings'; 'GEOPRIV'=0D=0A> > Sub= ject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> >=0D= =0A> > It's true, and deserves some text in DHCP options if we open that up=0D= =0A> > again.=0D=0A> > I do think that given current realities, HELD is mor= e likely to be=0D=0A> used in=0D=0A> > mobile environments that don't use M= LP, but you are still correct.=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > Brian=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > > = -----Original Message-----=0D=0A> > > From: Winterbottom, James [mailto:Jam= es.Winterbottom@andrew.com]=0D=0A> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7= :02 PM=0D=0A> > > To: Brian Rosen; Mary Barnes; Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV=0D= =0A> > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv]=0D=0Adraft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-deliv= ery-03=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A> > > This is not a HELD specific problem, and is eq= ually applicable to=0D=0A> DHCP.=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A> > > > -----Original Mess= age-----=0D=0A> > > > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]=0D=0A> >= > > Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 7:38 AM=0D=0A> > > > To: 'Mary Barnes'= ; 'Cullen Jennings'; 'GEOPRIV'=0D=0A> > > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv]=0D=0A> d= raft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > If a = device is mobile, and is connected via a non-bypassable=0D=0AVPN,=0D=0A> th= en=0D=0A> > > it=0D=0A> > > > better use a reference obtained before the VP= N comes up.=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > I have no idea how you ensure that.=0D= =0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > Brian=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > > -----Original Mes= sage-----=0D=0A> > > > > From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mary.barnes@nortel.com]=0D= =0A> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:24 PM=0D=0A> > > > > To: = Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV=0D=0A> > > > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv]=0D=0A> draft= -ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > Hi Cu= llen,=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > Thanks for your comments. A few respon= ses and question (for=0D=0Athe=0D=0A> WG)=0D=0A> > > > > embedded below [MB= ].=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > Mary.=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > -----O= riginal Message-----=0D=0A> > > > > From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@ci= sco.com]=0D=0A> > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:39 PM=0D=0A> > = > > > To: GEOPRIV=0D=0A> > > > > Subject: [Geopriv]=0D=0Adraft-ietf-geopriv= -http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > Few= trivial nits in document clarity ...=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > I found=0D= =0A> > > > > The HELD protocol uses the IP address of the Device as an=0D= =0A> > > identifier=0D=0A> > > > > in determining the location of the d= evice.=0D=0A> > > > > somewhat misleading and might suggest rewording. Perh= aps=0D=0A> something=0D=0A> > > like=0D=0A> > > > > The LIS uses the sou= rce IP address of the request sent from=0D=0A> the=0D=0A> > > > > Device as= an identifier=0D=0A> > > > > in determining the location of the device= =2E=0D=0A> > > > > [MB] Sounds good.=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > In secti= on 4.1.1. do we need to say anything about devices=0D=0Athat=0D=0A> move=0D= =0A> > > > > after the VPN is up=3F I don't care, just an idea.=0D=0A> > > = > > [MB] I don't have an opinion either. Do other people have=0D=0A> views= =3F=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > In section 6.1, it was not clear to me un= til I looked at the=0D=0A> schema=0D=0A> > > that=0D=0A> > > > > this could= be either the number value or the enumerated type.=0D=0A> > > > > For the = numeric value, just having it be an integer in mili=0D=0A> seconds=0D=0A> >= > > > might make some people happier than using floating point.=0D=0A> > >= > > [MB] Good point. I'll add the appropriate text to 6.1 and=0D=0A> chan= ge=0D=0A> > > the=0D=0A> > > > > type to "nonNegativeInteger" unless someon= e sees a reason for=0D=0Aa=0D=0A> > > decimal=0D=0A> > > > > value. [/MB]=0D= =0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > Cullen =0D= =0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > ________________________________= _______________=0D=0A> > > > > Geopriv mailing list=0D=0A> > > > > Geopriv@= ietf.org=0D=0A> > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv=0D=0A= > > > > >=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > ___________________________________= ____________=0D=0A> > > > > Geopriv mailing list=0D=0A> > > > > Geopriv@iet= f.org=0D=0A> > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv=0D=0A> = > > >=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > ______________________________= _________________=0D=0A> > > > Geopriv mailing list=0D=0A> > > > Geopriv@ie= tf.org=0D=0A> > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv=0D=0A> >= >=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A>=0D=0A-------------------------------------------------= -----------------------=0D=0A> > --=0D=0A> > > ----------------------=0D=0A= > > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may=0D=0A> > > = contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information.=0D=0A> >= > If you have received it in error, please notify the sender=0D=0A> > > im= mediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of=0D=0A> > > this= email is prohibited.=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A>=0D=0A------------------------------= ------------------------------------------=0D=0A> > --=0D=0A> > > ---------= -------------=0D=0A> > > [mf2]=0D=0A> >=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A>=0D=0A-------------= -----------------------------------------------------------=0D=0A--=0D=0A> = ----------------------=0D=0A> This message is for the designated recipient = only and may=0D=0A> contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private i= nformation.=0D=0A> If you have received it in error, please notify the send= er=0D=0A> immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of=0D=0A= > this email is prohibited.=0D=0A>=0D=0A-----------------------------------= -------------------------------------=0D=0A--=0D=0A> ----------------------=0D= =0A> [mf2]=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> ___________________________= ____________________=0D=0A> Geopriv mailing list=0D=0A> Geopriv@ietf.org=0D= =0A> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv=0D=0A=0D=0A------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------=0D=0AThis message is for the designated recipient only and may=0D= =0Acontain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. =20=0D= =0AIf you have received it in error, please notify the sender=0D=0Aimmediat= ely and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of=0D=0Athis email is pr= ohibited.=0D=0A------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------=0D=0A[mf2]=0D=0A _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 20:03:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J059J-0004Hi-Eb; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:03:33 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J059I-0004HH-P5 for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:03:32 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J059I-0004H9-FU for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:03:32 -0500 Received: from smtp3.andrew.com ([198.135.207.235] helo=andrew.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J059G-0000p9-EX for geopriv@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:03:32 -0500 X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2007_12_05_19_14_28 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from aopexbh2.andrew.com [10.86.20.25] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:14:28 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by aopexbh2.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:03:30 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:03:28 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0c0f01c837a3$b06539c0$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: AcgzApwkooDWmo2QQQaJ8PwQ/A92lwEarI3gAARNvZAAByfIIAABKTGAAACs8iAAADV2MAAAHnfg References: <0C0042B2-351C-4807-955D-72422111AD92@cisco.com> <0b7701c8377e$b4553870$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> <0c0101c837a0$0f6d1040$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> <0c0f01c837a3$b06539c0$0e99f544@cis.neustar.com> From: "Winterbottom, James" To: "Brian Rosen" , "Mary Barnes" , "Cullen Jennings" , "GEOPRIV" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 01:03:30.0016 (UTC) FILETIME=[D0AB8E00:01C837A3] X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Yup okay=0D=0A=0D=0A> -----Original Message-----=0D=0A> From: Brian Rosen [= mailto:br@brianrosen.net]=0D=0A> Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 12:02 PM=0D= =0A> To: Winterbottom, James; 'Mary Barnes'; 'Cullen Jennings'; 'GEOPRIV'=0D= =0A> Subject: RE: [Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D= =0A>=20=0D=0A> I meant that IMS like systems would do proxy insertion and t= hus the=0D=0Aissues=0D=0A> would not arise. That would use MLP, right=3F=0D= =0A>=20=0D=0A> However, those same systems will need to support something f= or packet=0D=0A> services (think MSN Messenger on a raw packet service), an= d they will=0D=0Aneed=0D=0A> something also, and proxy insertion may not be= practical there.=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> Brian=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A> > -----Original M= essage-----=0D=0A> > From: Winterbottom, James [mailto:James.Winterbottom@a= ndrew.com]=0D=0A> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:54 PM=0D=0A> > To:= Brian Rosen; Mary Barnes; Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV=0D=0A> > Subject: RE: [= Geopriv] draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> > MLP= isn't used by end-devices and I think never will be.=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> >=0D=0A= > > > -----Original Message-----=0D=0A> > > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@br= ianrosen.net]=0D=0A> > > Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 11:37 AM=0D=0A> > = > To: Winterbottom, James; 'Mary Barnes'; 'Cullen Jennings';=0D=0A'GEOPRIV'=0D= =0A> > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv]=0D=0Adraft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-deliv= ery-03=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A> > > It's true, and deserves some text in DHCP opti= ons if we open that=0D=0Aup=0D=0A> > > again.=0D=0A> > > I do think that gi= ven current realities, HELD is more likely to be=0D=0A> > used in=0D=0A> > = > mobile environments that don't use MLP, but you are still correct.=0D=0A>= > >=0D=0A> > > Brian=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A> > > > -----Original Message-----=0D= =0A> > > > From: Winterbottom, James [mailto:James.Winterbottom@andrew.com]=0D= =0A> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:02 PM=0D=0A> > > > To: Bria= n Rosen; Mary Barnes; Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV=0D=0A> > > > Subject: RE: [G= eopriv]=0D=0Adraft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A= > > > > This is not a HELD specific problem, and is equally applicable=0D=0A= to=0D=0A> > DHCP.=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > > > -----Original Message-----=0D= =0A> > > > > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br@brianrosen.net]=0D=0A> > > > > Se= nt: Thursday, 6 December 2007 7:38 AM=0D=0A> > > > > To: 'Mary Barnes'; 'Cu= llen Jennings'; 'GEOPRIV'=0D=0A> > > > > Subject: RE: [Geopriv]=0D=0A> > dr= aft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > If= a device is mobile, and is connected via a non-bypassable=0D=0AVPN,=0D=0A>= > then=0D=0A> > > > it=0D=0A> > > > > better use a reference obtained befo= re the VPN comes up.=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > I have no idea how you e= nsure that.=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > Brian=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > >= > > -----Original Message-----=0D=0A> > > > > > From: Mary Barnes [mailto:= mary.barnes@nortel.com]=0D=0A> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007= 3:24 PM=0D=0A> > > > > > To: Cullen Jennings; GEOPRIV=0D=0A> > > > > > Sub= ject: RE: [Geopriv]=0D=0A> > draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03=0D= =0A> > > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > > Hi Cullen,=0D=0A> > > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > = > Thanks for your comments. A few responses and question (for=0D=0Athe=0D=0A= > > WG)=0D=0A> > > > > > embedded below [MB].=0D=0A> > > > > >=0D=0A> > > >= > > Mary.=0D=0A> > > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > > -----Original Message-----=0D=0A= > > > > > > From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com]=0D=0A> > > > > = > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:39 PM=0D=0A> > > > > > To: GEOPRIV=0D= =0A> > > > > > Subject: [Geopriv]=0D=0Adraft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-del= ivery-03=0D=0A> > > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > > Few trivial nit= s in document clarity ...=0D=0A> > > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > > I found=0D=0A> = > > > > > The HELD protocol uses the IP address of the Device as an=0D=0A= > > > > identifier=0D=0A> > > > > > in determining the location of the = device.=0D=0A> > > > > > somewhat misleading and might suggest rewording. P= erhaps=0D=0A> > something=0D=0A> > > > like=0D=0A> > > > > > The LIS use= s the source IP address of the request sent=0D=0Afrom=0D=0A> > the=0D=0A> >= > > > > Device as an identifier=0D=0A> > > > > > in determining the lo= cation of the device.=0D=0A> > > > > > [MB] Sounds good.=0D=0A> > > > > >=0D= =0A> > > > > > In section 4.1.1. do we need to say anything about devices=0D= =0Athat=0D=0A> > move=0D=0A> > > > > > after the VPN is up=3F I don't care,= just an idea.=0D=0A> > > > > > [MB] I don't have an opinion either. Do ot= her people have=0D=0A> > views=3F=0D=0A> > > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > > In sect= ion 6.1, it was not clear to me until I looked at the=0D=0A> > schema=0D=0A= > > > > that=0D=0A> > > > > > this could be either the number value or the = enumerated=0D=0Atype.=0D=0A> > > > > > For the numeric value, just having i= t be an integer in mili=0D=0A> > seconds=0D=0A> > > > > > might make some p= eople happier than using floating point.=0D=0A> > > > > > [MB] Good point. = I'll add the appropriate text to 6.1 and=0D=0A> > change=0D=0A> > > > the=0D= =0A> > > > > > type to "nonNegativeInteger" unless someone sees a reason=0D= =0Afor a=0D=0A> > > > decimal=0D=0A> > > > > > value. [/MB]=0D=0A> > > > > = >=0D=0A> > > > > > Cullen =0D=0A> > = > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > > _________________________________= ______________=0D=0A> > > > > > Geopriv mailing list=0D=0A> > > > > > Geopr= iv@ietf.org=0D=0A> > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv=0D= =0A> > > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > > __________________________= _____________________=0D=0A> > > > > > Geopriv mailing list=0D=0A> > > > > = > Geopriv@ietf.org=0D=0A> > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/= geopriv=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > >=0D=0A> > > > > _______= ________________________________________=0D=0A> > > > > Geopriv mailing lis= t=0D=0A> > > > > Geopriv@ietf.org=0D=0A> > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mail= man/listinfo/geopriv=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> > > >=0D=0A> >=0D=0A--------------= ----------------------------------------------------------=0D=0A> > > --=0D= =0A> > > > ----------------------=0D=0A> > > > This message is for the desi= gnated recipient only and may=0D=0A> > > > contain privileged, proprietary,= or otherwise private=0D=0Ainformation.=0D=0A> > > > If you have received i= t in error, please notify the sender=0D=0A> > > > immediately and delete th= e original. Any unauthorized use of=0D=0A> > > > this email is prohibited.=0D= =0A> > > >=0D=0A> >=0D=0A--------------------------------------------------= ----------------------=0D=0A> > > --=0D=0A> > > > ----------------------=0D= =0A> > > > [mf2]=0D=0A> > >=0D=0A> >=0D=0A> >=0D=0A------------------------= ------------------------------------------------=0D=0A> --=0D=0A> > -------= ---------------=0D=0A> > This message is for the designated recipient only = and may=0D=0A> > contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private info= rmation.=0D=0A> > If you have received it in error, please notify the sende= r=0D=0A> > immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of=0D= =0A> > this email is prohibited.=0D=0A> >=0D=0A----------------------------= --------------------------------------------=0D=0A> --=0D=0A> > -----------= -----------=0D=0A> > [mf2]=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A=0D=0A---------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D=0A= This message is for the designated recipient only and may=0D=0Acontain priv= ileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. =20=0D=0AIf you have= received it in error, please notify the sender=0D=0Aimmediately and delete= the original. Any unauthorized use of=0D=0Athis email is prohibited.=0D=0A= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------=0D=0A[mf2]=0D=0A _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 20:04:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05A2-00050Q-Az; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:04:18 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J05A1-0004zx-IK for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:04:17 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05A1-0004zo-5M; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:04:17 -0500 Received: from smtp3.andrew.com ([198.135.207.235] helo=andrew.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05A0-00069u-BK; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:04:17 -0500 X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2007_12_05_19_15_14 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from aopexbh2.andrew.com [10.86.20.25] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:15:14 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by aopexbh2.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:04:15 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub? Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:04:13 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub? Thread-Index: Acg3o7UCkxP30xyaT0KspDc9NazMgwAACv1g References: <4756DF0A.2010706@gmx.net> From: "Winterbottom, James" To: , "Hannes Tschofenig" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 01:04:15.0751 (UTC) FILETIME=[EBEE2970:01C837A3] X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 848ed35f2a4fc0638fa89629cb640f48 Cc: GEOPRIV , ECRIT X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1320073564==" Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1320073564== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C837A3.EB913F3E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C837A3.EB913F3E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No stagger back.. Geopriv in the morning.. *8)=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D= =0A=0D=0A________________________________=0D=0A=0D=0AFrom: peter_blatherwic= k@mitel.com [mailto:peter_blatherwick@mitel.com]=20=0D=0ASent: Thursday, 6 = December 2007 12:03 PM=0D=0ATo: Hannes Tschofenig=0D=0ACc: GEOPRIV; ECRIT=0D= =0ASubject: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub=3F=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AI = do not know whether I will make it but ... Best local beer is to be=0D=0Ah= ad at The Steamworks Brewing Company. In-house brewed, and good=0D=0Apub-g= rub. A bit of a walk, about 2 x distance to Marriott / Renaissance=0D=0Aho= tels. (The stagger back could be somewhat longer q;*)=20=0D=0A=0D=0A375= Water Street=20=0D=0Ahttp://www.steamworks.com/=20=0D=0A=0D=0ANote there a= re 3 of them these days, apparently -- go to the original as=0D=0Aabove, wh= ere they make the brew. =20=0D=0A=0D=0ABTW, downstairs tends to be a bit q= uieter...=20=0D=0A=0D=0A-- Peter Blatherwick=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D= =0A=20=0D=0A=0D=0AHannes Tschofenig =20=0D=0A=0D= =0A05.12.07 12:25=20=0D=0A=0D=0A =20=0D=0A To: GEOPRIV = , ECRIT =20=0D=0A cc: =20=0D= =0A Subject: [Ecrit] Pub=3F=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AInte= rested in going to a pub together on Thursday evening=3F=0D=0AWe are going = to meet after the plenary in front of the IETF Registration=0D=0A=0D=0ADesk=0D= =0A=0D=0APlease indicate your preference here:=0D=0Ahttp://www.doodle.ch/6p= 9er8b3hnyinqg8=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ACiao=0D= =0AHannes=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A_______________________________________________=0D= =0AEcrit mailing list=0D=0AEcrit@ietf.org=0D=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/ecrit=0D=0A=0D=0A-----------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------=0D=0AThis message is for = the designated recipient only and may=0D=0Acontain privileged, proprietary,= or otherwise private information. =20=0D=0AIf you have received it in erro= r, please notify the sender=0D=0Aimmediately and delete the original. Any = unauthorized use of=0D=0Athis email is prohibited.=0D=0A-------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --=0D=0A[mf2]=0D=0A ------_=_NextPart_001_01C837A3.EB913F3E Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A= =0D=0A= =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A

No stagger back.. Geopriv in the morning..=0D=0A*8)

=0D=0A=0D=0A

=0D= =0A=0D=0A

=0D=0A=0D=0A

=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A

From:=0D=0Apeter_blatherwick@= mitel.com [mailto:peter_blatherwick@mitel.com]
=0D=0ASent: Thursday, 6 December 2007=0D=0A12:03 PM<= br>=0D=0ATo: Hannes Tschofen= ig
=0D=0ACc: GEOPRIV; ECR= IT
=0D=0ASubject: [Geopri= v] Re: [Ecrit]=0D=0APub=3F

=0D=0A=0D=0A

=0D=0AI do not know whet= her I will make it but ... Best=0D=0Alocal beer is to be had at The S= teamworks Brewing Company. In-house=0D=0Abrewed, and good pub-grub. &= nbsp;A bit of a walk, about 2 x distance to=0D=0AMarriott / Renaissance hot= els. (The stagger back could be somewhat longer=0D=0A q;*= )
=0D=0A
=0D=0A375=0D=0AWater Street
=0D=0Ahttp://www.steamworks.com/=0D= =0A
=0D=0A
=0D=0ANote=0D=0Athere are 3 of them these da= ys, apparently -- go to the original as above,=0D=0Awhere they make the bre= w.
=0D=0A
=0D=0ABTW,=0D=0Adownsta= irs tends to be a bit quieter...
=0D=0A
=0D=0A--=0D=0APeter Blatherwick
=0D=0A
=0D=0A
=0D=0A=
=0D=0A

=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D= =0A =0D=0A= =0D=0A =0D=0A <= /tr>=0D=0A

=0D=0A

Hannes Tschofenig=0D= =0A <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net>

=0D= =0A

05.12.07 12:25

=0D= =0A

=0D=0A =0D=0A To: &n= bsp; GEOPRIV=0D=0A <geopriv@ietf.org>, ECRIT <= ;ecrit@ietf.org>
=0D=0A =0D=0A &n= bsp; cc:
=0D=0A= =0D=0A Subject: &n= bsp; [Ecrit] Pub=3F

=0D=0A

=0D=0A=0D=0A

=0D=0A
=0D=0A
=0D=0AInterested=0D=0Ain goin= g to a pub together on Thursday evening=3F
=0D=0AWe are going to meet after= the plenary in front of=0D=0Athe IETF Registration
=0D=0A<= tt>Desk
=0D=0A
=0D=0APlease indicate your preference here:
=0D= =0Ahttp://www.doodle.ch/6p9er8b3hnyinqg8
=0D=0A<http://service.gmx.ne= t/de/cgi/derefer=3FTYPE=3D3&DEST=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.doodle.ch%2F6p9er8b= 3hnyinqg8>
=0D=0A
=0D=0ACiao
=0D=0AHannes =0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A_____________= __________________________________ =0D=0AEcrit mailing list =0D=0AEcrit@ietf.org =0D=0A= https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit=

=0D=0A=0D=0A

=0D=0A=0D=0A ---------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------- =0D= =0AThis message is for the designated recipie= nt only and may =0D=0Acontain privileged, propr= ietary, or otherwise private information. =0D=0AIf you have received it in error,&nbs= p;please notify the sender =0D=0Aimmediately and&nbs= p;delete the original. Any unauthorized use&= nbsp;of =0D=0Athis email is prohibited. =0D=0A--------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------- =0D=0A[mf2]=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D= =0A ------_=_NextPart_001_01C837A3.EB913F3E-- --===============1320073564== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv --===============1320073564==-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 20:21:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05R8-0002ew-Nf; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:21:58 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J05R6-0002dW-Uu for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:21:56 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05R6-0002dL-IK; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:21:56 -0500 Received: from smtp.mitel.com ([216.191.234.102]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05R5-0007ir-RU; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:21:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (smtp.mitel.com [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.mitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1992C055; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:21:55 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new (virusonly) at mitel.com Received: from smtp.mitel.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.mitel.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eXaCFocNLt9N; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:21:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from kanmta01.mitel.com (kanmta01 [134.199.37.58]) by smtp.mitel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 750C12C027; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:21:54 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: To: "Winterbottom, James" Subject: RE: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.5 November 30, 2005 Message-ID: From: peter_blatherwick@mitel.com Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:21:51 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on kanmta01/Mitel(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 12/05/2007 08:21:54 PM, Serialize complete at 12/05/2007 08:21:54 PM X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 88b11fc64c1bfdb4425294ef5374ca07 Cc: GEOPRIV , ECRIT X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1362285471==" Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1362285471== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00077E94852573A9_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00077E94852573A9_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Are you presupposing we want to be awake for it ? "Winterbottom, James" 05.12.07 20:04 To: , "Hannes Tschofenig" cc: "GEOPRIV" , "ECRIT" Subject: RE: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub? No stagger back.. Geopriv in the morning.. *8) From: peter_blatherwick@mitel.com [mailto:peter_blatherwick@mitel.com] Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 12:03 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: GEOPRIV; ECRIT Subject: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub? I do not know whether I will make it but ... Best local beer is to be had at The Steamworks Brewing Company. In-house brewed, and good pub-grub. A bit of a walk, about 2 x distance to Marriott / Renaissance hotels. (The stagger back could be somewhat longer q;*) 375 Water Street http://www.steamworks.com/ Note there are 3 of them these days, apparently -- go to the original as above, where they make the brew. BTW, downstairs tends to be a bit quieter... -- Peter Blatherwick Hannes Tschofenig 05.12.07 12:25 To: GEOPRIV , ECRIT cc: Subject: [Ecrit] Pub? Interested in going to a pub together on Thursday evening? We are going to meet after the plenary in front of the IETF Registration Desk Please indicate your preference here: http://www.doodle.ch/6p9er8b3hnyinqg8 < http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/derefer?TYPE=3&DEST=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doodle.ch%2F6p9er8b3hnyinqg8 > Ciao Hannes _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of this email is prohibited. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [mf2] --=_alternative 00077E94852573A9_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Are you presupposing we want to be awake for it ? "Winterbottom, James" <James.Winterbottom@andrew.com> 05.12.07 20:04 To: <peter_blatherwick@mitel.com>, "Hannes Tschofenig" <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> cc: "GEOPRIV" <geopriv@ietf.org>, "ECRIT" <ecrit@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub? No stagger back.. Geopriv in the morning.. *8) From: peter_blatherwick@mitel.com [mailto:peter_blatherwick@mitel.com] Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 12:03 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: GEOPRIV; ECRIT Subject: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub? I do not know whether I will make it but ... Best local beer is to be had at The Steamworks Brewing Company. In-house brewed, and good pub-grub. A bit of a walk, about 2 x distance to Marriott / Renaissance hotels. (The stagger back could be somewhat longer q;*) 375 Water Street http://www.steamworks.com/ Note there are 3 of them these days, apparently -- go to the original as above, where they make the brew. BTW, downstairs tends to be a bit quieter... -- Peter Blatherwick Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> 05.12.07 12:25 To: GEOPRIV <geopriv@ietf.org>, ECRIT <ecrit@ietf.org> cc: Subject: [Ecrit] Pub? Interested in going to a pub together on Thursday evening? We are going to meet after the plenary in front of the IETF Registration Desk Please indicate your preference here: http://www.doodle.ch/6p9er8b3hnyinqg8 <http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/derefer?TYPE=3&DEST=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doodle.ch%2F6p9er8b3hnyinqg8> Ciao Hannes _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of this email is prohibited. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [mf2] --=_alternative 00077E94852573A9_=-- --===============1362285471== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv --===============1362285471==-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 20:24:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05Tq-0005g6-Mj; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:24:46 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J05Tp-0005bR-Ku for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:24:45 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05Tp-0005YP-6b; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:24:45 -0500 Received: from smtp3.andrew.com ([198.135.207.235] helo=andrew.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05To-0007xo-7B; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:24:45 -0500 X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2007_12_05_19_35_42 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from aopexbh2.andrew.com [10.86.20.25] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:35:42 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by aopexbh2.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:24:43 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub? Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:24:41 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub? Thread-Index: Acg3pmTBOP0CV1mpSXymDlJ6tnwnEwAAFB+Q References: From: "Winterbottom, James" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2007 01:24:43.0477 (UTC) FILETIME=[C7B64850:01C837A6] X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: dd7e0c3fd18d19cffdd4de99a114001d Cc: GEOPRIV , ECRIT X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1712537533==" Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1712537533== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C837A6.C75AA1BE" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C837A6.C75AA1BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think I have to be awake.. *8)=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=0D=0A_= _______________________________=0D=0A=0D=0AFrom: peter_blatherwick@mitel.co= m [mailto:peter_blatherwick@mitel.com]=20=0D=0ASent: Thursday, 6 December 2= 007 12:22 PM=0D=0ATo: Winterbottom, James=0D=0ACc: GEOPRIV; ECRIT=0D=0ASubj= ect: RE: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub=3F=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AAre y= ou presupposing we want to be awake for it =3F =20=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D= =0A=20=0D=0A=0D=0A"Winterbottom, James" =20=0D= =0A=0D=0A05.12.07 20:04=20=0D=0A=0D=0A =20=0D=0A To: , "Hannes Tschofenig"=0D=0A=20=0D=0A cc: "GEOPRIV" , "ECRIT"=0D=0A= =20=0D=0A Subject: RE: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] = Pub=3F=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ANo stagger back.. Geopriv in the mornin= g.. *8)=20=0D=0A =20=0D=0A =20=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=0D=0A__________________= ______________=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AFrom: peter_blatherwick@mitel.com [mailto:p= eter_blatherwick@mitel.com]=20=0D=0ASent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 12:03 P= M=0D=0ATo: Hannes Tschofenig=0D=0ACc: GEOPRIV; ECRIT=0D=0ASubject: [Geopriv= ] Re: [Ecrit] Pub=3F=20=0D=0A =20=0D=0A=0D=0AI do not know whether I will m= ake it but ... Best local beer is to be=0D=0Ahad at The Steamworks Brewing= Company. In-house brewed, and good=0D=0Apub-grub. A bit of a walk, about= 2 x distance to Marriott / Renaissance=0D=0Ahotels. (The stagger back cou= ld be somewhat longer q;*)=20=0D=0A=0D=0A375 Water Street=20=0D=0Ahttp:/= /www.steamworks.com/=20=0D=0A=0D=0ANote there are 3 of them these days, app= arently -- go to the original as=0D=0Aabove, where they make the brew. =0D= =0A=0D=0ABTW, downstairs tends to be a bit quieter...=20=0D=0A=0D=0A-- Pete= r Blatherwick=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A =20=0D=0A=0D=0AHannes Tschofenig <= Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net>=20=0D=0A=0D=0A05.12.07 12:25=20=0D=0A=0D=0A = =20=0D=0A To: GEOPRIV , ECRIT =20=0D=0A cc: =20=0D=0A Subject: [Ecrit] Pub=3F=0D= =0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AInterested in going to a pub together on T= hursday evening=3F=0D=0AWe are going to meet after the plenary in front of = the IETF Registration=0D=0A=0D=0ADesk=0D=0A=0D=0APlease indicate your prefe= rence here:=0D=0Ahttp://www.doodle.ch/6p9er8b3hnyinqg8=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ACiao=0D=0AHannes=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A_______= ________________________________________=0D=0AEcrit mailing list=0D=0AEcrit= @ietf.org=0D=0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit=20=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D= =0A=0D=0A=0D=0A------------------------------------------------------------= ------------=0D=0A------------------------=0D=0AThis message is for the des= ignated recipient only and may=0D=0Acontain privileged, proprietary, or oth= erwise private information. =20=0D=0AIf you have received it in error, plea= se notify the sender=0D=0Aimmediately and delete the original. Any unautho= rized use of=0D=0Athis email is prohibited.=0D=0A--------------------------= ----------------------------------------------=0D=0A-----------------------= -=0D=0A[mf2]=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=0D=0A------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------------=0D=0AThis mess= age is for the designated recipient only and may=0D=0Acontain privileged, p= roprietary, or otherwise private information. =20=0D=0AIf you have received= it in error, please notify the sender=0D=0Aimmediately and delete the orig= inal. Any unauthorized use of=0D=0Athis email is prohibited.=0D=0A--------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------=0D=0A[mf2]=0D=0A ------_=_NextPart_001_01C837A6.C75AA1BE Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A= =0D=0A= =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0AI think I have to be awake.. *8)<= /o:p> =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D= =0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AFrom:=0D=0Apeter_blatherwick@= mitel.com [mailto:peter_blatherwick@mitel.com] =0D=0ASent: Thursday, 6 December 2007=0D=0A12:22 PM<= br>=0D=0ATo: Winterbottom, J= ames =0D=0ACc: GEOPRIV; E= CRIT =0D=0ASubject: RE: [= Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit]=0D=0APub=3F =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A&nbs= p; =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A= Are you presu= pposing we want to be awake for it =3F =0D=0A =0D=0A= =0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D= =0A =0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A=0D= =0A =0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A= "Winte= rbottom,=0D=0A James" <James.Winterbottom@andrew.com> =0D=0A 05.12.07 20:04 =0D=0A =0D=0A = ; =0D=0A =0D=0A = To: <peter_blatherwick@= mitel.com>,=0D=0A "Hannes Tschofenig" <Hannes.Tschofenig@g= mx.net>=0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A &nbs= p; cc: "GEOPRIV"=0D=0A = <geopriv@ietf.org>, "ECRIT" <ecrit@ietf.org>=0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A Su= bject: RE: [Geopriv] Re:=0D=0A [Ecrit] Pub=3F =0D=0A =0D=0A=0D= =0A =0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0ANo stagger back.. Geopriv in the morning.. *8= )=0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A = =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D= =0A =0D=0A= From:=0D=0A= peter_blatherwick@mitel.com [mailto:peter_blatherwick@mitel.com] =0D=0ASent: Thursday, 6 Decemb= er 2007 12:03 PM =0D=0ATo: Hannes Tschofenig =0D=0ACc:<= /span> GEOPRIV; ECRIT =0D=0ASubj= ect: [Geopriv] Re: [Ecrit] Pub=3F =0D=0A = =0D=0A =0D=0AI do not know whether I will make it but= ... Best local beer is to be had=0D=0Aat The Steamworks Brewing Comp= any. In-house brewed, and good pub-grub. A=0D=0Abit of a walk, = about 2 x distance to Marriott / Renaissance hotels. (The=0D=0Astagge= r back could be somewhat longer q;*) =0D=0A<= font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif> =0D=0A375 Water Street =0D=0Ahttp://www.steamworks.com/ =0D=0A=0D=0ANote there are 3 of them these days, apparently -- go to the origina= l as above,=0D=0Awhere they make the brew. =0D=0A<= font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif> =0D=0ABTW, downstairs tends to be a bit quieter...<= /font> =0D=0A =0D=0A-- Peter Blatherwick= =0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D= =0A =0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A= =0D= =0A =0D=0A=0D=0A <= /span> =0D=0A =0D=0A = Hannes Tschofenig=0D=0A <Hanne= s.Tschofenig@gmx.net> =0D=0A 05.12.07 12:25 =0D=0A =0D=0A &n= bsp; =0D=0A &nb= sp;To: GEOPRIV=0D=0A <geopriv@ietf.org>, = ECRIT <ecrit@ietf.org> =0D=0A = cc: =0D=0A Subject: &n= bsp; [Ecrit] Pub=3F =0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0AInterested in going to a pub togeth= er on Thursday evening=3F =0D=0AWe are going to meet after the plenary i= n front of the IETF Registration =0D=0ADesk =0D=0A =0D=0APlease i= ndicate your preference here: =0D=0Ahttp://www.doodle.ch/6p9er8b3hnyinqg= 8 =0D=0A<http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/derefer=3FTYPE=3D3&DEST=3D= http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doodle.ch%2F6p9er8b3hnyinqg8> =0D=0A =0D=0ACiao=0D=0AHannes =0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A_______________________________= ________________ =0D=0AEcrit mailing list =0D=0AEcrit@ietf.org =0D= =0Ahttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A= =0D=0A -----------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------------- =0D=0A Th= is message is for the designated recipient only and may =0D=0A contain = privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. =0D=0A= If you have received it in error, please notify the sender =0D=0A imm= ediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of =0D=0A = this email is prohibited. =0D=0A --------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------- =0D=0A [mf2]= =0D=0A =0D=0A=0D= =0A ----------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------- =0D=0AThis = ;message is for the designated recipient only= and may =0D=0Acontain privileged, proprietary, = ;or otherwise private information. =0D=0AIf&n= bsp;you have received it in error, please&nbs= p;notify the sender =0D=0Aimmediately and delete&nbs= p;the original. Any unauthorized use of =0D= =0Athis email is prohibited. =0D=0A----------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------<= br>=0D=0A[mf2]=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A ------_=_NextPart_001_01C837A6.C75AA1BE-- --===============1712537533== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv --===============1712537533==-- From VickichristophKessler@onlineconversion.com Wed Dec 05 23:50:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J08hC-0005po-80 for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:50:46 -0500 Received: from [200.122.150.26] (helo=desktop) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J08h9-0005O3-3l for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:50:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host73327570.onlineconversion.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id pam2vxOM75.130323.xjY.8H9.2769524025404 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 05:50:07 -0100 Message-ID: <821901c837c3$88207cc0$f8fc0d0a@desktop> From: "Vicki Bowling" To: Subject: Your health Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 05:50:07 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_8215_01C837C3.88207CC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_8215_01C837C3.88207CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis Soft Tabs would help you to = make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. = Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in = 30 minutes. 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Download our casino in 20 seconds to get $999 richer when you join. http://eurocasinoam.com/ From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 03:22:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0C0R-0004h8-8W; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:22:51 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0C0O-0004fP-VD for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:22:48 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0C0O-0004fF-Al for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:22:48 -0500 Received: from sea-mimesweep-1.telecomsys.com ([206.173.41.176]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0C0M-0007XJ-0D for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:22:48 -0500 Received: from SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com (unverified [10.32.12.7]) by sea-mimesweep-1.telecomsys.com (Clearswift SMTPRS 5.2.9) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:17:27 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:17:26 -0800 Message-ID: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508BED70B@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: Acg34G9pccmQPl+KSXSyyNehaKteBA== From: "Roger Marshall" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f9c0d585568a86447c98453afdf94aa0 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1958570811==" Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1958570811== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C837E0.6FAA658A" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C837E0.6FAA658A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Comments regarding the draft, http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03. Note: This is a partial review, for the first half of the document - throught section 4 only. Additionally, most of the comments suggest minor, (yet IMO important), rewording changes - except, maybe for the last two, C17, C18 - which lead to bigger issues. -roger marshall. ---- C1. Abstract, Clarify text,=20 Change from: "...The protocol includes options for retrieving location information either by-value or by-reference." Change to: "...The protocol includes options for acquiring location information to an end device, either by-value or by-reference (or both)." Reason: It could be misread to suggest that it may be possible to retrieve location "by-value" through some dereference step, instead of receiving location in a "by value" form as part of a Configuration Protocol. C2. Introduction, Clarify text, Change from: "...mobile networks and wireless access networks." Change to: "...mobile networks." Reason: Both mobile networks and wireless access networks share common characteristics. Is there a clear deliniation between the two? Maybe we could just say "mobile networks". C3. Intro, pp2., s1. Change wording, change from: "...two methods for acquiring LI."=20 change to: =20 "...two methods for receiving the acquired LI." Reason: Problem here is that HELD (in this draft) shouldn't equate an LI to a location URI (see comment C9, below) - wording needs to be clearer. C4. Intro, pp2., Clarify wording: "Both of these methods are compatible..." =20 Reason: Question is, compatible with what? Need to say something like, compatible [with each other for a single request/response, or ]. C5. Section 3, Overview and Scope, pp1., s2., Change wording Change from: "The LIS is present within the same administrative domain as the Device (the access network). Change to:=20 "For this document, we make the assumption that the LIS is present within the same administrative domain as the Device (the access network)." Reason: Same domain assumption needs spelled out, since it is possible for LIS elements to exist in core network domains also. C6. Section 3, pp1., s3. Change wording.=20 Change from: "An Access Provider (AP) operates the LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can retrieve LI." Change to: "For this document, it is assumed that an Access Provider (AP) operates the LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can retrieve LI." Reason: same "state the assumption" comment needed as above. C7. Section 3, pp1., s4. Change wording. Change from: "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance." Change to: "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance, and finally, because it may be desired that external requests for a target location be cached in a LIS in order to alleviate load from the target device." Reason: The reason given as to why a LIS exists needs to be expanded to cover the idea of "storing location". C8. Section 3, pp1., s5., change wording, since there are more ways to come up with a location than just by derivation methods. Change from: "This document does not specify how LI is derived." Change to: "This document does not specify how LI is determined (i.e., provisioned, measured, or derived)." C9. Section 4, pp1., s1., Clarify wording, Change from: "The HELD protocol facilitates retrieval of LI either by-value, as a PIDF-LO document, or by-reference..." Change to: "The HELD protocol facilitates the acquisition to the device, either of an LI directly via by-value, as a PIDF-LO document, or that of acquiring LI indirectly, via by-reference..." Reason: Here, the "LI" term seems to be equated to either an LbyV LO or an LbyR location URI, whereas in the text following, (Section 4, pp3., s3.), it equates the LI to the object that a Location URI points to (LI should not be equated to a location URI, but to the LI which the location URI points to), "A Location URI is a URI [21 ] of any scheme, which a Location Recipient (LR) can use to retrieve LI." C10. Section 4.1, pp2., s1., Change wording for completeness, Change from: "This is not always the case." Change to: "Though this may occur, this is not always the case." Reason: This makes the wording flow together, rather than sounding like two differing opinions from the same author. C11. Section 4.1, pp2., s2., Clarify the following text to make the topology more understandable, "For example, a NAT used in a residential Local Area Network (LAN) is typically not a problem. The external IP address used on the Wide Area Network (WAN) side of the NAT is an acceptable identifier for all of the devices in the residence since the covered geographical area is small. Reason: It's not clear whether the intention is to differentiate between two separate topologies, one with a LAN and the other with a WAN, or only one topology that is a hybrid including both a LAN and a WAN portion. C12. Section 4.1, pp3., Clarify wording (2x). Change from: "address" Change to: "IP address"=20 C13. Section 4.1.1, pp1., Change wording. Change from: "To minimize the impact of VPNs, Devices..." Change to: "To minimize the potential negating impact of VPNs, devices..." C14. Section 4.1.1, pp2., Change wording, Change from:=20 "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a HELD LIS for those other devices." Change to: "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a LIS Proxy that implements the HELD protocol for those other devices." Reason: It is not clear what a "HELD LIS" is. The implication here is that of a proxy to get location on-behalf-of another device - which implies a LIS-to-LIS protocol (not mentioned). C15. Section 4.1.1, pp3, Clarify terminology, what is meant by the following phrase, "act as a LIS"? (taken from following statement: "VPN devices that act as a LIS MAY acquire their own location using HELD." Something that acts like a LIS is either (probably) really a LIS, or something like a "LIS Proxy". Could be clearer. C16. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., Change wording, Change from: "A LIS MUST NOT provide location information to a Device if it cannot provide accurate information." Change from: "It is the general expectation that a LIS not provide location information to a Device which is accurate information." Reason: There seems to be a recurring mismatch between the description of what a protocol (HELD) interface is to a LIS - and that of the requirements for a LIS itself throughout this section, misplaced for what should be considered a black box to the interface. C17. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., General Comment, How can the original statement be resolved in light of location hiding, which is a purposeful attempt to make a location "inaccurate" (depending on how the term is defined). C18. General Comment - along the lines of comment C17: This draft advertises itself as a protocol spec, not a set of LIS requirements. The document needs to describe the in and the out of the HELD protocol interface, and should not intermingle other requirements, assumptions, and expectations of what a LIS (viewed as a black box) should do. --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be pr= ivileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or res= ponsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review,= forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication o= r any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this messa= ge in error, please notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all at= tachments from your computer and network. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C837E0.6FAA658A Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html= /draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Comments regarding the draft, http://tools.ietf.or= g/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03. Note: This is a partial review, for the fi= rst half of the document - throught section 4 only. Additionally, mos= t of the comments suggest minor, (yet IMO important), rewording changes - e= xcept, maybe for the last two, C17, C18 - which lead to bigger issues. -roger marshall. ---- C1. Abstract, Clarify text, Change from: "...The protocol includes options for retrieving location information either by-value or by-reference." Change to: "...The protocol includes options for acquiring location information to an end device, either by-value or by-reference (or both)." Reason: It could be misread to suggest tha= t it may be possible to retrieve location "by-value" through some= dereference step, instead of receiving location in a "by value" = form as part of a Configuration Protocol. C2. Introduction, Clarify text, Change from: "...mobile networks and wireless access networks." Change to: "...mobile networks."= ; Reason: Both mobile networks and wireless = access networks share common characteristics. Is there a clear delini= ation between the two? Maybe we could just say "mobile networks&= quot;. C3. Intro, pp2., s1. Change wording,= change from: "...two methods for acquiring LI.&qu= ot; change to: "...two methods for receiving the ac= quired LI." Reason: Problem here is that HELD (in this= draft) shouldn't equate an LI to a location URI (see comment C9, below) - = wording needs to be clearer. C4. Intro, pp2., Clarify wording: "Both of these methods are compatible..." Reason: Question is, compatible with= what? Need to say something like, compatible [with each other for a = single request/response, or <???>]. C5. Section 3, Overview and Scope, p= p1., s2., Change wording Change from: "The LIS is present within the same administrative= domain as the Device (the access network). Change to: "For this document, we make th= e assumption that the LIS is pre= sent within the same administrative domain as the Device (the ac= cess network)." Reason: Same domain assumption needs= spelled out, since it is possible for LIS elements to exist in core networ= k domains also. C6. Section 3, pp1., s3. Chang= e wording. Change from: "An Access <= FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Provider (AP) operates the LIS so that D= evices (and Targets) can retrieve LI."<= /FONT> Change to: "For this document, it is assu= med that an Access Pr= ovider (AP) operates the LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can retrieve LI."<= /FONT> Reason: same "state the assumpt= ion" comment needed as above. C7. Section 3, pp1., s4. Chang= e wording. Change from: "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to deter= mine its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance." Change to: "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to deter= mine its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance, and finally, because it may be desired t= hat external requests for a target location be cached in a LIS in order to = alleviate load from the target device." Reason: The reason given as to why a= LIS exists needs to be expanded to cover the idea of "storing locatio= n". C8. Section 3, pp1., s5., change wor= ding, since there are more ways to come up with a location than just by der= ivation methods. Change from: "This document does not specify how LI is derived.<= /FONT>" Change to: "This document does not specify how LI is determined (i.e., provisioned,= measured, or derived)." C9. Section 4, pp1., s1., Clarify wo= rding, Change from: "The HELD protocol facilitates retrieval of LI either by-value= , as a PIDF-LO document, or by-reference..." Change to: "The HELD protocol facilitates the acquisition to the device, either of an LI directly via by-value, as = a PIDF-LO document, or that of acquiring LI indirectly,via by-reference..= ." Reason: Here, the "LI" ter= m seems to be equated to either an LbyV LO or an LbyR location URI, whereas= in the text following, (Section 4, pp3., s3.), it equates the LI to the ob= ject that a Location URI points to (LI should not be equated to a location = URI, but to the LI which the location URI points to), "A Location URI is a URI [21] of any scheme, which a Location Recipient= (LR) can use to retrieve LI.&qu= ot; C10. Section 4.1, pp2., s1., Change = wording for completeness, Change from: "This is not always the case." Change to: "Though this may oc= cur, this is not always the case= ." Reason: This makes the wording flow = together, rather than sounding like two differing opinions from the same au= thor. C11. Section 4.1, pp2., s2., Clarify= the following text to make the topology more understandable, "For example, a NAT used in a residential Local Area Network (LAN) is typically not a proble= m. The external IP address used on the Wide Area Network (WAN) side o= f the NAT is an acceptable identifier for all of the devices in the<= BR> residence since the covered geographical area is small. Reason: It's not clear whether the i= ntention is to differentiate between two separate topologies, one with a LA= N and the other with a WAN, or only one topology that is a hybrid including= both a LAN and a WAN portion. C12. Section 4.1, pp3., Clarify word= ing (2x). Change from: "address" Change to: "IP address" <= /FONT> C13. Section 4.1.1, pp1., Change wor= ding. Change from: "To minimize the impact of VPNs, Devices..." Change to: "To minimize the po= tential negating impact of VPNs<= /FONT>, devices..." C14. Section 4.1.1, pp2., Change wor= ding, Change from: "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devic= es inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a HELD LIS for= those other devices."= ; Change to: "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devic= es inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a LIS Proxy that implements the HELD protocol<= /FONT> for those other devices."= ; Reason: It is not clear what a "= ;HELD LIS" is. The implication here is that of a proxy to get lo= cation on-behalf-of another device - which implies a LIS-to-LIS protocol (n= ot mentioned). C15. Section 4.1.1, pp3, Clarify ter= minology, what is meant by the following phrase, "act as a LIS"?&= nbsp; (taken from following statement: "VPN devices that act as a LIS MAY acquire their own location using HELD." Something that acts like a LIS is ei= ther (probably) really a LIS, or something like a "LIS Proxy".&nb= sp; Could be clearer. C16. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., Chang= e wording, Change from: "A LIS MUST NOT provide location information to a Device if it= cannot provide accurate information." Change from: "It is the general expectation= that a LIS not provi= de location information to a Device which is accurate informatio= n." Reason: There seems to be a recurrin= g mismatch between the description of what a protocol (HELD) interface is t= o a LIS - and that of the requirements for a LIS itself throughout this sec= tion, misplaced for what should be considered a black box to the interface.= C17. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., Gener= al Comment, How can the original statement be resolved in light of location= hiding, which is a purposeful attempt to make a location "inaccurate&= quot; (depending on how the term is defined). C18. General Comment - along the lin= es of comment C17: This draft advertises itself as a protocol spec, not a s= et of LIS requirements. The document needs to describe the in and the= out of the HELD protocol interface, and should not intermingle other requi= rements, assumptions, and expectations of what a LIS (viewed as a black box= ) should do. --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTI= CE: The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or conf= idential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for deliver= ing this message to the intended recipient, any review, forwarding, dissemi= nation, distribution or copying of this communication or any attachment(s) = is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please = notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all attachments from your = computer and network. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C837E0.6FAA658A-- --===============1958570811== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv --===============1958570811==-- From Grundyfzb@aguaysalud.com Thu Dec 06 07:47:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0G8I-0000xF-AT for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:47:14 -0500 Received: from [85.108.201.247] (helo=[85.108.201.247]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0G8H-00023D-Fx for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:47:14 -0500 Received: from fucking-pke1qkc by aguaysalud.com with ASMTP id 02F2F180 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:47:32 +0200 Received: from fucking-pke1qkc ([172.123.178.103]) by aguaysalud.com with ESMTP id FC393C9CEDBF for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:47:32 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c83806$23aa1f10$f7c96c55@fuckingpke1qkc> From: "Lucian Grundy" To: Subject: nindizes Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:47:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83816.E732EF10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83816.E732EF10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi geopriv-archive Become really well healthy in 2008! http://untilmelody.com Lucian Grundy ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83816.E732EF10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi geopriv-archive Become really well healthy in = 2008! http://untilmelody.com Lucian Grundy ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C83816.E732EF10-- From RexarmadaLeonard@wikipedia.org Thu Dec 06 09:03:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0HKZ-0000yp-KT for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:03:59 -0500 Received: from adsl-64-237-244-39.prtc.net ([64.237.244.39] helo=personalxew9mk.gateway.2wire.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0HKY-0006OP-S6 for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:03:59 -0500 Received: from salesman by wikipedia.org with SMTP id PMHsWyZNvq for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:02:17 +0400 From: "Omar Daniel" To: Subject: Play your favorite games and get $999 welcome bonus. 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Comments on introductory text 2. Comments on requirements 3. Comments on security considerations Section 1. First paragraph. SIP is not the only mechanism for carrying LbyV. Email, for example, works as well, or XMPP, etc. Revise to say "While there are already direct mechanisms for providingn location directly (e.g., as part of the SIP signaling protocol),..." Section 1. Second paragraph. I would re-frame this as follows. There are four-high-level operations that you want to do with an LbyR. 1. Creation / allocation (target - server) 2. Configuration (target - server) 3. Dereference (deref. client - deref. server) 4. Destruction / cancellation (target - server) Given the pattern of communications, it makes sense to group these functions into two protocols. Functions 1,2, and 4 belong to a management or configuration protocol, while function 3 belongs to a dereference protocol. (LCPs are a special case of the management protocol; for example, HELD implicitly creates and configures a reference) I suggest the term "Location URI Management Protocol", or "LUMP. Section 1. Last paragraph. I don't understand what this paragraph means. What are you ruling out? Section 2. Why is there all this white space? Section 3.1. This section should be merged into Section 3. As mentioned above, I would replace the definition of "Location Configuration Protocol" with something like "Location URI Management Protocol (LUMP)". Section 4. I would re-title this as "Overview of Location by Reference". Section 4. First paragraph. It's not just in mobile networks that polling's not efficient! Section 4. Figure 1 Change the LCP->LUMP Section 4. "The following list ..." This should be describing Figure 1, with three points. In brief: 1. Target requests reference from server; server creates, delivers 2. Target conveys reference to recipient (OUT OF SCOPE) 3. Recipient dereferences reference, either by request/response (HTTP) or by pub/sub (SIP SUBSCRIBE) Section 4. "Note that the Target ..." 1. Need to remove pub/sub language from the first sentence to make it general. "subscribe to its own location information" --> "dereference the location URI to obtain its own location information" 2. I would rephrase the example as follows: For example, the Target might obtains a subscription URI (e.g., a SIP URI) from the HELD, the Geopriv layer 7 location configuration protocol. The target can then subscribe to the URI in order to be periodically notified of its current location. The endpoint can also express a geospatial boundary (using [ref:geopriv-policy]), so that it will not be notified of location until it leaves that boundary. Section 4. "For LbyR..." Remove the word "randomized". _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 19:01:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeJ-0005lX-Pu; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:59 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeI-0005iP-JC for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:58 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeI-0005hf-7d for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:58 -0500 Received: from mx11.bbn.com ([128.33.0.80]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeH-000560-IR for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:58 -0500 Received: from dommiel.bbn.com ([192.1.122.15] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J0QeG-0005AG-67; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:57 -0500 Message-ID: <47588D33.4060700@bbn.com> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:00:51 -0800 From: Richard Barnes User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'GEOPRIV' , Roger Marshall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 Cc: Subject: [Geopriv] Comments on requirements in draft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-01 X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Part 1 in a three-part series. 1. Comments on introductory text 2. Comments on requirements 3. Comments on security considerations First, the LCP requirements in here are really requirements for whatever protocol you use to manage references, whether it's an LCP or not. So I would change this to discuss a management protocol for LbyR instead (while "LbyR configuration protocol" is tempting, it would be confusing). C2. Why is this a SHOULD? What's the exception? Also, this requirement assumes that all location references have explicitly limited lifetimes, which isn't necessarily true. I would just modify this to say "When a location URI has a limited validity interval, its lifetime MUST be indicated." Also, in the motivation, "Location URIs may not be intended..." C4. This should be RECOMMENDED, the exception being when either (1) the referenced location is public information or (2) the reference is access-controlled. C5. Again, this should be RECOMMENDED, same exceptions as above. C7. This should be a MUST. The client should always be able to distinguish between "now" and "earlier". What would the exception be? D3. I would rephrase this as follows: "The location dereference protocol MUST include mechanisms to authenticate both the client and the server" Also, the motivation for this requirement is false as written -- as usual, implementation is not optional, but use in a given transaction is. Rephrase as: "Although the implementations must support authentication of both parties, any given transaction has the option not to authenticate one or both parties." D4. The phrase "MUST result" is unclear, but it sems like a statement about the types of files that the dereference protocol can return. I hope it doesn't mean that the returned document MUST be of type application/pidf+xml; you should allow for something (like HELD) that returns a PIDF-LO inside a container. How about this text: "The value returned by the dereference protocol MUST contain a well-formed PIDF-LO document." D5. I would change "configuration server parameters" to "dereference server configuration", in both the requirement and the motivation. There are a couple of requirements from draft-marshall-...-00 that have disappeared in the meantime, and that need to be brought back: D6. Location Privacy: The location dereference protocol MUST support the application of privacy rules to the dissemination of a requested location object. The dereference server MUST obey all provisioned privacy rules that apply to a requested location object. D7. Location Confidentiality: The dereferencing protocol MUST support mechanisms for encrypting messages sent between the derference client and the dereference server. It MUST also have a mode in which messages are unencrypted. _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 19:01:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeF-0005g5-IP; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:55 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeE-0005g0-5Y for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:54 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeD-0005fs-Rs for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:53 -0500 Received: from mx11.bbn.com ([128.33.0.80]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeD-0006mS-Ee for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:53 -0500 Received: from dommiel.bbn.com ([192.1.122.15] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J0QeC-0005A9-5f; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:53 -0500 Message-ID: <47588D2F.5060102@bbn.com> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:00:47 -0800 From: Richard Barnes User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'GEOPRIV' , Roger Marshall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Cc: Subject: [Geopriv] Comments on introductory text in draft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-01 X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Part 1 in a three-part series. 1. Comments on introductory text 2. Comments on requirements 3. Comments on security considerations Section 1. First paragraph. SIP is not the only mechanism for carrying LbyV. Email, for example, works as well, or XMPP, etc. Revise to say "While there are already direct mechanisms for providingn location directly (e.g., as part of the SIP signaling protocol),..." Section 1. Second paragraph. I would re-frame this as follows. There are four-high-level operations that you want to do with an LbyR. 1. Creation / allocation (target - server) 2. Configuration (target - server) 3. Dereference (deref. client - deref. server) 4. Destruction / cancellation (target - server) Given the pattern of communications, it makes sense to group these functions into two protocols. Functions 1,2, and 4 belong to a management or configuration protocol, while function 3 belongs to a dereference protocol. (LCPs are a special case of the management protocol; for example, HELD implicitly creates and configures a reference) I suggest the term "Location URI Management Protocol", or "LUMP. Section 1. Last paragraph. I don't understand what this paragraph means. What are you ruling out? Section 2. Why is there all this white space? Section 3.1. This section should be merged into Section 3. As mentioned above, I would replace the definition of "Location Configuration Protocol" with something like "Location URI Management Protocol (LUMP)". Section 4. I would re-title this as "Overview of Location by Reference". Section 4. First paragraph. It's not just in mobile networks that polling's not efficient! Section 4. Figure 1 Change the LCP->LUMP Section 4. "The following list ..." This should be describing Figure 1, with three points. In brief: 1. Target requests reference from server; server creates, delivers 2. Target conveys reference to recipient (OUT OF SCOPE) 3. Recipient dereferences reference, either by request/response (HTTP) or by pub/sub (SIP SUBSCRIBE) Section 4. "Note that the Target ..." 1. Need to remove pub/sub language from the first sentence to make it general. "subscribe to its own location information" --> "dereference the location URI to obtain its own location information" 2. I would rephrase the example as follows: For example, the Target might obtains a subscription URI (e.g., a SIP URI) from the HELD, the Geopriv layer 7 location configuration protocol. The target can then subscribe to the URI in order to be periodically notified of its current location. The endpoint can also express a geospatial boundary (using [ref:geopriv-policy]), so that it will not be notified of location until it leaves that boundary. Section 4. "For LbyR..." Remove the word "randomized". _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 19:01:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeJ-0005lX-Pu; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:59 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeI-0005iP-JC for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:58 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeI-0005hf-7d for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:58 -0500 Received: from mx11.bbn.com ([128.33.0.80]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeH-000560-IR for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:58 -0500 Received: from dommiel.bbn.com ([192.1.122.15] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J0QeG-0005AG-67; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:00:57 -0500 Message-ID: <47588D33.4060700@bbn.com> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:00:51 -0800 From: Richard Barnes User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'GEOPRIV' , Roger Marshall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 Cc: Subject: [Geopriv] Comments on requirements in draft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-01 X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Part 1 in a three-part series. 1. Comments on introductory text 2. Comments on requirements 3. Comments on security considerations First, the LCP requirements in here are really requirements for whatever protocol you use to manage references, whether it's an LCP or not. So I would change this to discuss a management protocol for LbyR instead (while "LbyR configuration protocol" is tempting, it would be confusing). C2. Why is this a SHOULD? What's the exception? Also, this requirement assumes that all location references have explicitly limited lifetimes, which isn't necessarily true. I would just modify this to say "When a location URI has a limited validity interval, its lifetime MUST be indicated." Also, in the motivation, "Location URIs may not be intended..." C4. This should be RECOMMENDED, the exception being when either (1) the referenced location is public information or (2) the reference is access-controlled. C5. Again, this should be RECOMMENDED, same exceptions as above. C7. This should be a MUST. The client should always be able to distinguish between "now" and "earlier". What would the exception be? D3. I would rephrase this as follows: "The location dereference protocol MUST include mechanisms to authenticate both the client and the server" Also, the motivation for this requirement is false as written -- as usual, implementation is not optional, but use in a given transaction is. Rephrase as: "Although the implementations must support authentication of both parties, any given transaction has the option not to authenticate one or both parties." D4. The phrase "MUST result" is unclear, but it sems like a statement about the types of files that the dereference protocol can return. I hope it doesn't mean that the returned document MUST be of type application/pidf+xml; you should allow for something (like HELD) that returns a PIDF-LO inside a container. How about this text: "The value returned by the dereference protocol MUST contain a well-formed PIDF-LO document." D5. I would change "configuration server parameters" to "dereference server configuration", in both the requirement and the motivation. There are a couple of requirements from draft-marshall-...-00 that have disappeared in the meantime, and that need to be brought back: D6. Location Privacy: The location dereference protocol MUST support the application of privacy rules to the dissemination of a requested location object. The dereference server MUST obey all provisioned privacy rules that apply to a requested location object. D7. Location Confidentiality: The dereferencing protocol MUST support mechanisms for encrypting messages sent between the derference client and the dereference server. It MUST also have a mode in which messages are unencrypted. _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 19:01:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeP-0005sS-02; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:01:05 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeN-0005sL-LN for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:01:03 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeN-0005sD-Ae for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:01:03 -0500 Received: from mx11.bbn.com ([128.33.0.80]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0QeM-00056g-PL for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:01:03 -0500 Received: from dommiel.bbn.com ([192.1.122.15] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J0QeM-0005AO-3q; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:01:02 -0500 Message-ID: <47588D38.2070701@bbn.com> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:00:56 -0800 From: Richard Barnes User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'GEOPRIV' , Roger Marshall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Cc: Subject: [Geopriv] Comments on security considerations in draft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-01 X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Part 3 in a three-part series. 1. Comments on introductory text 2. Comments on requirements 3. Comments on security considerations I'm going to reverse myself here and say that this document should explicitly discuss security requirements. This is mainly because this document needs to get done quickly (i.e., without waiting for draft-barnes-geopriv-lo-sec), and because this document needs to be more specific than that document. (That said, I expect the concerns discussed in lo-sec to be a superset of the concerns here.) The high-level structure I have in mind is as follows: -- Creating LbyR mechanisms makes endpoint location information accessible to third parties. -- The primary risk created by this is the disclosure of location information to parties not authorized by the endpoint to receive it. -- There are two methods for preventing this access 1. Access control at dereference requires client authentication and authorization mechanisms 2. Pawn tickets require randomization and strong protection of the URI itself. In particular, the management protocol require authentication. -- In either of these models, there is a risk that implementation defects will allow the access control model to be circumvented. I will provide text soon. _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 06 20:51:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0SNM-0002Ku-8z; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:51:36 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0SNK-0002D0-ST for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:51:34 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0SNK-00028J-E3 for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:51:34 -0500 Received: from smtp3.andrew.com ([198.135.207.235] helo=andrew.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0SNI-0005Ht-IG for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:51:34 -0500 X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2007_12_06_20_02_31 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from acdcexbh1.andrew.com [10.86.20.91] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:02:31 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by acdcexbh1.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:51:31 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Geopriv] Comments on requirements indraft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-01 Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:51:30 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <47588D33.4060700@bbn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] Comments on requirements indraft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-01 Thread-Index: Acg4ZEKxGrLUiYCPTI62202ZJlHAhwADxfAg References: <47588D33.4060700@bbn.com> From: "Winterbottom, James" To: "Richard Barnes" , "GEOPRIV" , "Roger Marshall" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2007 01:51:31.0984 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0DEB900:01C83873] X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Hi Richard,=0D=0A=0D=0AI only have concerns with one of your comments, so I= shall snip out the=0D=0Arest.=0D=0A=0D=0A> C2. Why is this a SHOULD=3F Wh= at's the exception=3F Also, this=0D=0Arequirement=0D=0A> assumes that all = location references have explicitly limited=0D=0Alifetimes,=0D=0A> which is= n't necessarily true. I would just modify this to say "When a=0D=0A> locat= ion URI has a limited validity interval, its lifetime MUST be=0D=0A> indica= ted." Also, in the motivation, "Location URIs may not be=0D=0A> intended..= =2E"=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A=0D=0AI believe that all location references must have = a life time associated=0D=0Awith them, even if that life time is a very lon= g one.=0D=0A=0D=0ACheers=0D=0AJames=0D=0A----------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------=0D=0AThis me= ssage is for the designated recipient only and may=0D=0Acontain privileged,= proprietary, or otherwise private information. =20=0D=0AIf you have receiv= ed it in error, please notify the sender=0D=0Aimmediately and delete the or= iginal. 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Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price Learn More Now 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed = up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_239B0_01C8388B.2D94DF80-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 07 00:00:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0VJm-0002hu-2B; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:00:06 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0VJk-0002hm-BB for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:00:04 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0VJj-0002he-Tw; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:00:03 -0500 Received: from ns0.neustar.com ([156.154.16.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0VJi-0008J6-6Q; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:00:03 -0500 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFB423288F; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 05:00:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0VJh-0008De-NR; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:00:01 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:00:01 -0500 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Cc: geopriv@ietf.org Subject: [Geopriv] I-D Action:draft-ietf-geopriv-revised-civic-lo-07.txt X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Geographic Location/Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : Revised Civic Location Format for PIDF-LO Author(s) : M. Thomson, J. Winterbottom Filename : draft-ietf-geopriv-revised-civic-lo-07.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2007-12-06 This document defines an XML format for the representation of civic location. This format is designed for use with PIDF Location Object (PIDF-LO) documents and replaces the civic location format in RFC 4119. The format is based on the civic address definition in PIDF-LO, but adds several new elements based on the civic types defined for DHCP, and adds a hierarchy to address complex road identity schemes. The format also includes support for the xml:lang language tag and restricts the types of elements where appropriate. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-revised-civic-lo-07.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-geopriv-revised-civic-lo-07.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-revised-civic-lo-07.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-12-06235708.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-revised-civic-lo-07.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-geopriv-revised-civic-lo-07.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-12-06235708.I-D\@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv --NextPart-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 07 01:40:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0WtA-0005x1-Ie; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:40:44 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Wt8-0005wp-Ow for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:40:42 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Wt7-0005wV-Po for geopriv@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:40:41 -0500 Received: from mx12.bbn.com ([128.33.0.81]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0Wt7-00047l-Dr for geopriv@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:40:41 -0500 Received: from dommiel.bbn.com ([192.1.122.15] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mx12.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J0Wt4-0007X0-60; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:40:39 -0500 Message-ID: <4758EADF.2000707@bbn.com> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:40:31 -0800 From: Richard Barnes User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Winterbottom, James" Subject: Re: [Geopriv] Comments on requirements indraft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-01 References: <47588D33.4060700@bbn.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Cc: GEOPRIV X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org James, I think there are use cases in which references do not have explicitly limited lifetimes. The canonical example is the presence case, in which the reference is my SIP URI. I definitely don't want that URI to expire (for an indefinite period), nor do I want to categorically rule out indefinite subscriptions (e.g., for my mother). In general, as we discuss LbyR, I think it's useful to keep two use cases in mind as endpoints in a continuum: 1. The presence use case: Location URI is very long-lived, access control is done by dereference. 2. The pawn ticket use case: Location URIs are short-lived, access control is done by controlling access to the reference. I think we want to accommodate both of these in our requirements. --Richard Winterbottom, James wrote: > Hi Richard, > > I only have concerns with one of your comments, so I shall snip out the > rest. > >> C2. Why is this a SHOULD? What's the exception? Also, this > requirement >> assumes that all location references have explicitly limited > lifetimes, >> which isn't necessarily true. I would just modify this to say "When a >> location URI has a limited validity interval, its lifetime MUST be >> indicated." Also, in the motivation, "Location URIs may not be >> intended..." >> > > I believe that all location references must have a life time associated > with them, even if that life time is a very long one. > > Cheers > James > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This message is for the designated recipient only and may > contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. > If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of > this email is prohibited. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [mf2] > > > _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From JulesescherichiaValenzuela@cbsnews.com Fri Dec 07 06:27:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0bMI-0007sl-4J for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:27:06 -0500 Received: from 236.red-213-97-201.staticip.rima-tde.net ([213.97.201.236] helo=portatilb7a0b3.local.lan) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0bMH-0006AJ-Iw for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:27:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host81462019.cbsnews.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id nwCS1ivQ07.749861.clE.0Ae.0828748688906 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:26:33 -0100 Message-ID: From: "Normand Valenzuela" To: Subject: Hi Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:26:33 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_E3D3B_01C838C4.162F8E60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_E3D3B_01C838C4.162F8E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price Learn More Now 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed = up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_E3D3B_01C838C4.162F8E60-- From juli@transunionexchange.com Fri Dec 07 07:15:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0c7P-0004Ss-4J for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:15:47 -0500 Received: from [85.98.49.6] (helo=dsl85-98-12550.ttnet.net.tr) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0c7N-0008Np-MO for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:15:46 -0500 Received: from belletmen ([141.148.33.89]:10554 "EHLO belletmen" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by dsl85-98-12550.ttnet.net.tr with ESMTP id S22LKYRFXWBFTINI (ORCPT ); Fri, 7 Dec 2007 14:16:34 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 14:16:15 +0200 From: "juli Reshetov" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: snoireiu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071129-0, 29.11.2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Good day geopriv-archive We can give you second se>. Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0cyQ-0005Do-6q; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:10:34 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J0cyP-0005Dh-MK for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:10:33 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0cyP-0005DX-Cd for geopriv@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:10:33 -0500 Received: from aismt06p.bellsouth.com ([139.76.165.211]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0cyO-0003My-RR for geopriv@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:10:33 -0500 Received: from ([139.76.131.87]) by aismt06p.bellsouth.com with ESMTP id KP-AXPRN.35467109; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:10:12 -0500 Received: from 01NC27689010627.AD.BLS.COM ([90.144.44.202]) by 01GAF5142010623.AD.BLS.COM with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:10:11 -0500 Received: from 01NC27689010641.AD.BLS.COM ([90.144.44.103]) by 01NC27689010627.AD.BLS.COM with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:10:11 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2992 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Geopriv] Comments on requirementsindraft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-01 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:10:10 -0500 Message-ID: <7582BC68E4994F4ABF0BD4723975C3FA06ABB2D6@crexc41p> In-Reply-To: <4758EADF.2000707@bbn.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Geopriv] Comments on requirementsindraft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-01 thread-index: Acg4nDBCMhujVhO9Tci/ZSXuVhtGKwANWFEw References: <47588D33.4060700@bbn.com> <4758EADF.2000707@bbn.com> From: "Stark, Barbara" To: "Richard Barnes" , "Winterbottom, James" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2007 13:10:11.0813 (UTC) FILETIME=[7FC78950:01C838D2] X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Cc: GEOPRIV X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org I completely agree that presence URIs (like a person's SIP URI) need to be considered a form of LbyR. And my SIP URI had better not expire. I think it's a good idea, though, to expect re-authentication of the subscription from time to time. That would mean the subscription was not indefinite. Since re-authentication can be an automated process handled by the device, users can be made completely unaware of it. Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Richard Barnes [mailto:rbarnes@bbn.com]=20 Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 1:41 AM To: Winterbottom, James Cc: GEOPRIV Subject: Re: [Geopriv] Comments on requirementsindraft-ietf-geopriv-lbyr-requirements-01 James, I think there are use cases in which references do not have explicitly=20 limited lifetimes. The canonical example is the presence case, in which the reference is my SIP URI. I definitely don't want that URI to expire (for an indefinite period), nor do I want to categorically rule out=20 indefinite subscriptions (e.g., for my mother). In general, as we discuss LbyR, I think it's useful to keep two use=20 cases in mind as endpoints in a continuum: 1. The presence use case: Location URI is very long-lived, access=20 control is done by dereference. 2. The pawn ticket use case: Location URIs are short-lived, access=20 control is done by controlling access to the reference. I think we want to accommodate both of these in our requirements. --Richard Winterbottom, James wrote: > Hi Richard, >=20 > I only have concerns with one of your comments, so I shall snip out the > rest. >=20 >> C2. Why is this a SHOULD? What's the exception? Also, this > requirement >> assumes that all location references have explicitly limited > lifetimes, >> which isn't necessarily true. I would just modify this to say "When a >> location URI has a limited validity interval, its lifetime MUST be >> indicated." Also, in the motivation, "Location URIs may not be >> intended..." >> >=20 > I believe that all location references must have a life time associated > with them, even if that life time is a very long one. >=20 > Cheers > James > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------ > This message is for the designated recipient only and may > contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. =20 > If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of > this email is prohibited. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------ > [mf2] >=20 >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv ***** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to = which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or = privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other = use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by = persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If = you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the = material from all computers. 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This is a first draft of minutes for GEOPRIV's meeting at IETF70. I don't have Richard's notes yet - when I get them, they will be appended and the summary will be updated with anything I haven't captured there already. Please send comments/corrections to the list or directly to me asap. Thanks, RjS MINUTES - GEOPRIV - IETF70 Friday December 5 2007 0900-1130 Summary: * Richard Barnes has taken on the role of GEOPRIV working group secretary * We will try to pull together an interim GEOPRIV meeting in early 2008. Watch the list for details. * -http-location-delivery is close to done. There is work to be done in the Security Considerations, a held URI scheme needs to be added, and the document needs to be scrubbed to make sure normative language is only applied to the protocol and not internal logic at any element. Volunteers for detailed review of this document are asked to send mail to the chair. This document will probably go through WGLC in early January. * There will be a draft from Jon and Ted on possible changes to PIDF- LO to address the concerns around redistribution and routing by intermediates that resurfaced while discussing location conveyance in SIP. * The room expressed consensus to adopt draft-thompson-geopriv-lis- discovery-03 as a working group item. * The room expressed interest in pidf-lo-dynamic. Henning will revise the draft before the Philidelphia meeting. We will ask there (if not before) whether the group wants to take this on as a working group item. * The room expressed consensus to adopt draft-polk-geopriv-dhcp-lbyr- uri-option-02 as a working group item. There was lengthy discussion and remaining concern around security that will need to be worked through. * Henning led an impromtu discussion around the taxonomy of location URLs that resonated well with the room. The concepts will be captured in a working group document (TBD). They point to possible mechanism (indicating what kind of location is being requested) that may need to be added to protocols that obtain location references. * The group asked that the civicaddresses-austria draft be reworked into a "Guidelines for placing addresses into PIDF-LO" information document, using the examples from Austria as motivation for its recommendations. ====================================================================== Raw notes as recorded by Miguel Garcia: GEOPRIV ======= 15m Administrivia Robert The agenda is slightly bashed. 30m http-location-delivery (HELD) Mary presentes the slides James: elements and attributes are not the same in XML. Mary: we don't use it consistently. Params should refer to either elements or attributes. Topic: responseTime type Topic: devices that move after the VPN is up. Should we update the text? Topic: Error code extensibility. Topic: HELD URI Topic: normative document dependencies requireing WG adoption/progresion Jon Peterson: teh question is how the general security issues apply to this location acquisition. Richard Barnes: address the security issues individually in each protocol. Jon Peterson: it is a scheduling thing, and presenting items to the IESG in order. We ought to have a story before proceeding to the IESG. James/Hannes: we need Richard's security document into the WG. Resolution: we need the normative references to the security document. Robert: there is a dependency here. There is a candidate here to fill the missing section. The group has to read the document and then decide if we can agree on it and push. A.I to Robert to send an e-mail to the list encouraging people to read the security document and provide comments. Roger Marshall: the document should not put security constraints to other protocols than HELD. For example: the text says the location SHOULD be accurate. Henning: one thing is the external behavior (MUST and SHOULDS). Then there are operational recommendations (good ideas and things to consider), which should be informative. Jon: the text speaks about the function of the LIS box that constitutes the HELD server. A.P. to Mary to inspect the document and look at this kind of normative/informative statements. Version -04 should be ready by early January. Plan to WGLC at the early part of the year. Reviewers requested. http-location-delivery draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Mary Robert introduces the discussion of the recipient= parameter in geolocation. There is a disagreement on what this parameter means. Jon Peterson agreed to put a draft. Jon Peterson: The draft will put an indicator inside PIDF-LO that will designate whether routing is permitted. Kind of binary permission flag. In SIP is hard to indicate who is the target of the request. PIDF-LO was thought around a subs/not mechanism. But push model is not compatible with retransmissions. Idea to make special allowance for push systems to make special permission to the routing based on location. Ted Hardie: we should have a draft in Philadelphia to talk about it. It's gonna be ugly. We either need the permission that Jon talk about or we need to change PIDF-LO and change how it works. Henning: we now have a concrete model of what happens to location conveyance. It would be nice to have a set of use cases that describe a bunch of issues (3PCC, 302 redirect). The use cases should look at the redistribution flag and the routing flag. Henning: there is an issue with the reconciliation of legal aspects and protocol aspects. Some lawyers talk about legal entities as opposed to domain names. Comparing URIs with legal entities is not going to solve the problem. We should explore this discussion and bring people who gave us legal advice years ago. Robert: this topic to the list. LIS Discovery draft-thomson-geopriv-lis-discovery-03 James W Lots of people read the document. Hmmm reveals that the group wants to adopt tihs document as WG item. pidf-lo-dynamic draft-singh-geopriv-pidf-lo-dynamic-02 Henning Henning: idea is to extend the LO with dynamic features. Useful for locatoin tracking, fleet management, safety of personnel. The document contains means to cover speed, acceleration, direction, bearing. Topic: units on the wire (m/s, m2/s). Proposal to use a unique set of units. Endpoints can convert if they wish in the User Interface. Resolution: consensus to use a single unit. Rohan: most people want to express two dimentions. The document needs to say that. Rohan: acceleration is a weird word. Call the attribute 'linear acceleration'. Topic: how to indicate use of dynamic feature PIDF-LO in HELD? Two choices: 1- I get to request Geo and you get me whatever you have 2- You explicitly say give me these extensions and if you can't do that, give me an error 3- Please give me acceleration, but if you can't give me civic. Hennig: Proposal, for now do option 1. Then in the future we can extend HELD in a backwards compatible way to request specific acceleration. Rohan: you need to consider filters. A.P. to remind Henning to consider filters for this document. Agreed to do a new revision before Philadelphia. Then decide there whether to adopt as a WG item or not. dhcp-lbyr-uri-option draft-polk-geopriv-dhcp-lbyr-uri-option-02 James P Jon Peterson: I liked it, we need to do it, this is the right solution James W: in the other two DHCP drafts we agreed... Ted Hardie: rather than talking of harmful URI, enumerate the URIs people can expect. You might see the same URI scheme more than once. Hannes: good document, needs better security considerations. There is a discussion on the security properties of DHCP and the document itself. There is a discussion whether posession of the URI means posession of the location. Several arguments at this respect, not clear conclusion. There seems to be quite a lot of confusion to respect the security implications. Robert: comments that the document goes in the right direction. Comments that more stuff is needed. Lisa: we don't understand the security implications. Randal Gellens suggests signing a URI with a revocable key like LEMONADE. Henning discusses the taxonomy of location URLs Hening discusses the 3+1 different classes of URLs that we may have. Jon Peterson throws the idea of having different DHCP options to request a particular kind of URL location. There seems to be consensus in the room that this is a good analysis and is badly needed. Hannes supports the idea of having the ability to request a specific kind of URL. Henning suggests to deprecate the term LbyR and use instead any of the 4 precise URL types. James W: we had LbyR because this is what the requirement said. Robert: we need to capture this in some sort of document. Robert: coming back to the DHCP draft, do we have a conclusion now? Cullen: there is no open issues about the DHCP document. Jon: Disagree, we need a mechanism to request a specific type of URL. Robert 3 questions. 1- adopting the DHCP draft (James P) 2- not adopting the draft 3- leave it in the state it is now, come back later Consensus on adopting the DHCP draft. To be confirmed on the list. 10m civicaddresses-austria draft-wolf-civicaddresses-austria-00 Karl Hannes and James W suggest to reuse an existing field to write a bunch of parts of the civic address. Reason: it is reversible. Austrian gets to know how to use them, for the rest it is an opaque street. It is suggested to turn the draft into an informational RFC about 'Guidelines and considerations when to write Austrian addresses in PIDF-LO'. Robert: revise this, work with authors, bring it as an individual next time. 10m HELD Dereference draft-winterbottom-geopriv-deref-protocol-00 James W While not many people has read the document, many people plan to read it. It is not possible to pick this one as a WG item due to the lack of people who read it. 20m Uncertainty and Confidence James W draft-thomson-geopriv-uncertainty-00 There are comments in favor of this document. There are comments on the relation of the application of uncertainty and confidence, related to the importance of the data. 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You still don't believe? http://asret.com/ From Ulrike379@rivbap.org.au Mon Dec 10 13:11:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1n5r-0001mL-Cq for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:11:03 -0500 Received: from [203.12.220.14] (helo=[203.12.220.244]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1n5p-0002j5-Mv for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:11:02 -0500 Received: from GITN_SARAWAK by rivbap.org.au with ASMTP id 47E2D5D0 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:11:21 +0800 Received: from GITN_SARAWAK ([158.123.112.145]) by rivbap.org.au with ESMTP id B29417EF97AA for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:11:21 +0800 Message-ID: <000401c83b58$03a05860$f4dc0ccb@GITNSARAWAK> From: "Ulrike Henderson" To: Subject: tuyuhasi Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:10:58 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C83B9B.11C39860" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C83B9B.11C39860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hello geopriv-archive be the most wanted man with \/i/\gra http://growsoon.com Ulrike Henderson ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C83B9B.11C39860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hello geopriv-archive be the most wanted man with = \/i/\gra http://growsoon.com Ulrike Henderson ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C83B9B.11C39860-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 10 15:59:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1pjJ-0001mk-BM; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:59:57 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J1pjI-0001mf-LF for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:59:56 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1pjI-0001mX-B2 for geopriv@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:59:56 -0500 Received: from andrew.triumf.ca ([142.90.106.59]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1pjG-00042Y-Bz for geopriv@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:59:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andrew.triumf.ca (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBAKxreO006099 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:59:53 -0800 Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:59:53 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Daviel X-X-Sender: andrew@andrew.triumf.ca To: geopriv@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Subject: [Geopriv] slides for daviel-HTML/HTTP drafts X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Hannes suggested I do a brief presentation to the WG on Friday in Vancouver, but there wasn't time. Robert Sparks said as I'd put something together I might as well send it to the list. So here it is: http://geotags.com/geo/ietf70.pdf The robot at geotags.com was offline for an extended period but is running again. Currently using a modified HtDig with a Google map API replacing the somewhat braindead worldmap interface. Only geo.position and geo.region (= country + A1) from the previous drafts are indexed. The HTTP slide shows one potential implementation of the HTTP draft; I could put this together (working) today with a cellphone, GPS and laptop, but potentially it could be less devices (Nokia E810 plus cellphone using Bluetooth, or a single GPS-and-Web-enabled mobile device). For GPS read "any source of positioning data", e.g. a location server. The standard browser and local proxy can be replaced by a modified browser or one with a custom add-on. One of the authors has done this with mobile IE. The slide with drivebc.ca is just an example of a local traffic site with realtime road reports and cameras, that would be useful if it automatically centered on the driver's location. A couple of questions were raised about the HTML draft, viz. adding a LANG element (it was in an earlier draft), and allowing a by-reference element. Re. LANG, as the draft refers to legacy HTML documents, the charset and language of the metadata is by default that of the enclosing document, charset as defined in the HTTP response (or http-equiv tag) and language as defined in the element. If authors bother. If it was desired to change the default on a per element basis, to add an alternate for e.g. LMK or A1-6, then as per W3C spec a LANG element could be added to META etc. This could be explicitly stated in the HTML draft. I dropped it because I thought it was adding more confusion. Re. reference, it would be possible to add a link element to a full PIDF XML document, as is currently done for stylesheets in HTML. I'm a bit reluctant to do this, because it opens up a can of worms about one Web document being an authoritative source of information for another, which might possibly be on another server or maintained by a different person. Also, historically this kind of linked document has not been well maintained - stylesheets often go missing, which a few years ago caused Netscape 4 to fail. Other browsers are more forgiving. refs. http://tools.ietf.org/html//draft-daviel-html-geo-tag-08 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-daviel-http-geo-header-05 -- Andrew Daviel, TRIUMF, Canada _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From MarjorieislamHollis@pioneermilitaryloans.com Mon Dec 10 19:49:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1tJl-0004fL-S2 for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:49:49 -0500 Received: from 65-162-59-50.quickclick.ctc.net ([65.162.59.50] helo=1267brooke.vnet.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1tJl-00054F-K7 for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:49:49 -0500 Received: from smithereens by pioneermilitaryloans.com with SMTP id 77ZqyaxLFQ for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:47:23 +0500 From: "Pauline Maloney" To: Subject: $999 welcome bonus will be deposited in your new casino account! 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Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft:http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:36:00 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508BED70B@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft:http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: Acg34G9pccmQPl+KSXSyyNehaKteBADx6BIw References: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508BED70B@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> From: "Thomson, Martin" To: "Roger Marshall" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2007 04:36:03.0132 (UTC) FILETIME=[562F5FC0:01C83BAF] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d119718c9ef593f359a025ee0d2770e1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:47:35 -0500 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0461409891==" Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0461409891== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C83BAF.560594CE" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83BAF.560594CE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgUm9nZXIsDQoNCiANCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciBwdXR0aW5nIGluIHRoZSB0aW1lLiAgSeKAmXZl IHB1dCBzb21lIHJlc3BvbnNlcyBpbmxpbmUuICBTb21lIG9mIHRoZXNlIG1pZ2h0IG5lZWQgYSBs aXR0bGUgbW9yZSB0aG91Z2h0LCBidXQgSeKAmXZlIHB1dCBkb3duIG15IG9waW5pb25zLg0KDQog DQoNCkNoZWVycywNCg0KTWFydGluDQoNCiANCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18NCg0KRnJvbTogUm9nZXIgTWFyc2hhbGwgW21haWx0bzpSTWFyc2hhbGxAdGVsZWNvbXN5 cy5jb21dIA0KU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIDYgRGVjZW1iZXIgMjAwNyA3OjE3IFBNDQpUbzogZ2Vv 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LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS08YnI+DQpbbWYyXTwvdGQ+PC90cj48L3RhYmxlPjwvYm9keT4NCg0KPC9odG1sPg0K ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83BAF.560594CE-- --===============0461409891== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv --===============0461409891==-- From Paulie342@source4all.com Tue Dec 11 00:00:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1xE5-0008Of-5d for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:00:13 -0500 Received: from [151.73.197.211] (helo=[151.73.201.103]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1xE4-00023z-AC for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:00:12 -0500 Received: by 10.69.20.216 with SMTP id JyrLSiQrpPuTc; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:00:11 +0100 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.237.88 with SMTP id MJYDbkZYSZSUlu.8679095252341; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:00:09 +0100 (GMT) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:00:06 +0100 To: geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org From: "Paulie Muirhead" Subject: is-azzip Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Hello geopriv-archive Use \/i/\gra with alco to get ultimate effect http://suggestleave.com Paulie Muirhead From PhillipflowerpotPowell@eoneill.com Tue Dec 11 03:49:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J20nY-0003rY-1X for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:49:04 -0500 Received: from d235-245-177.home1.cgocable.net ([24.235.245.177] helo=jordanscomputer) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 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My responses are embedded below [MB]. Also, note that I'm not using CAPs for things like "may" and "should" in most of the responses, since they are recommendations for device and LIS behaviors, and are not describing normative protocol functionality. This is another general change that needs to be made to the document.=20 Note, I have not reviewed Martin's responses yet, so we'll resolve any differences in a separate email.=20 Mary.=20 ________________________________ From: Roger Marshall [mailto:RMarshall@telecomsys.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:17 AM To: geopriv@ietf.org Subject: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Comments regarding the draft, http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 . =20 Note: This is a partial review, for the first half of the document - throught section 4 only. Additionally, most of the comments suggest minor, (yet IMO important), rewording changes - except, maybe for the last two, C17, C18 - which lead to bigger issues. -roger marshall.=20 ----=20 C1. Abstract, Clarify text,=20 Change from:=20 "...The protocol includes options for retrieving location information either by-value or by-reference."=20 Change to:=20 "...The protocol includes options for acquiring location information to an end device, either by-value or by-reference (or both)."=20 Reason: It could be misread to suggest that it may be possible to retrieve location "by-value" through some dereference step, instead of receiving location in a "by value" form as part of a Configuration Protocol.=20 [MB] I'm not clear on your specific reason, but I agree that it does need to include that both can be acquired by a device. I would suggest something like:=20 "The protocol allows a device to acquire the location information in two forms: by-value and by-reference." [/MB] C2. Introduction, Clarify text,=20 Change from:=20 "...mobile networks and wireless access networks."=20 Change to:=20 "...mobile networks."=20 Reason: Both mobile networks and wireless access networks share common characteristics. Is there a clear deliniation between the two? Maybe we could just say "mobile networks". [MB] "mobile networks" is not general enough. In my experience, "mobile networks" refers to the cellular networks that we all use for our cell phones and includes more than just the access network. Wikipedia agrees with me as it brings up "Cellular networks" when you search for mobile network. I consider wireless access networks to be a more general term that encompasses wireless lan and WIMAX. If we want the most general term, then we could replace both the terms with "wireless networks". [/MB] C3. Intro, pp2., s1. Change wording,=20 change from:=20 "...two methods for acquiring LI."=20 change to: =20 "...two methods for receiving the acquired LI."=20 Reason: Problem here is that HELD (in this draft) shouldn't equate an LI to a location URI (see comment C9, below) - wording needs to be clearer. [MB] That sentence doesn't equate the two types of location information and the next two sentences distinctly state how they are different. Both types are received (from a protocol perspective) in the same manner through a Location Response. To be more specific, we should perhaps reword that sentence as follows: OLD: This specification identifies two methods for acquiring LI. NEW: This specification identifies two types of location information that may be acquired.=20 [/MB] C4. Intro, pp2., Clarify wording:=20 "Both of these methods are compatible..." =20 Reason: Question is, compatible with what? Need to say something like, compatible [with each other for a single request/response, or ]. [MB] I think the "compatible" was meant to imply that they both use the same protocol mechanism, but I can see that is not quite clear. I would propose to just remove that beginning part of the sentence and reword the sentence from: OLD: Both of these methods are compatible, and both can be provided concurrently from the same LIS so that application needs can be addressed individually. =20 NEW: Both of these methods can be provided concurrently from the same LIS to accommodate application requirements for different types of location information.=20 [/MB] C5. Section 3, Overview and Scope, pp1., s2., Change wording=20 Change from:=20 "The LIS is present within the same administrative domain as the Device (the access network).=20 Change to:=20 "For this document, we make the assumption that the LIS is present within the same administrative domain as the Device (the access network)." Reason: Same domain assumption needs spelled out, since it is possible for LIS elements to exist in core network domains also. [MB] Okay. I'll just suggest some slightly different wording: "This document assumes that the LIS is present within the same administrative domain as the Device (the access network)." [/MB] C6. Section 3, pp1., s3. Change wording.=20 Change from:=20 "An Access Provider (AP) operates the LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can retrieve LI."=20 Change to:=20 "For this document, it is assumed that an Access Provider (AP) operates the LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can retrieve LI."=20 Reason: same "state the assumption" comment needed as above.=20 [MB] It's not clear to me which part of the sentence to which you want this assumption applied. I don't think we need to re-iterate the assumption about the LIS being in the access network since we just said that in the previous sentence. And, I don't think we're assuming that the LIS is there, so that the device can acquire LI. But, if others agree that this is necessary, I'll add the text.=20 [/MB] C7. Section 3, pp1., s4. Change wording.=20 Change from:=20 "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance."=20 Change to:=20 "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance, and finally, because it may be desired that external requests for a target location be cached in a LIS in order to alleviate load from the target device." Reason: The reason given as to why a LIS exists needs to be expanded to cover the idea of "storing location".=20 [MB] I would like more WG feedback on this. By definition, the LIS caches location information, but it was not my understanding that alleviating load on the target was a motivation. [/MB] C8. Section 3, pp1., s5., change wording, since there are more ways to come up with a location than just by derivation methods. Change from:=20 "This document does not specify how LI is derived."=20 Change to:=20 "This document does not specify how LI is determined (i.e., provisioned, measured, or derived)." [MB] I agree with your point, but am reluctant to restrict how LI is determined, per the i.e., since the alternatives are better described in RFC 3693. So, I would propose: "This document does not specify how LI is determined." [/MB] =20 C9. Section 4, pp1., s1., Clarify wording,=20 Change from:=20 "The HELD protocol facilitates retrieval of LI either by-value, as a PIDF-LO document, or by-reference..."=20 Change to:=20 "The HELD protocol facilitates the acquisition to the device, either of an LI directly via by-value, as a PIDF-LO document, or that of acquiring LI indirectly, via by-reference..." Reason: Here, the "LI" term seems to be equated to either an LbyV LO or an LbyR location URI, whereas in the text following, (Section 4, pp3., s3.), it equates the LI to the object that a Location URI points to (LI should not be equated to a location URI, but to the LI which the location URI points to), "A Location URI is a URI [21 ] of any scheme, which a Location Recipient (LR) can use to retrieve LI."=20 [MB] I see your point. I also think this isn't the only place that this slight mis-statement exists, so I will make a note to look for others. I would prefer something along the lines in terms of clarification: "The HELD protocol facilitates retrieval of location directly in the form of a PIDF-LO document (by-value) and indirectly as a Location URI (by-reference)."=20 [/MB] C10. Section 4.1, pp2., s1., Change wording for completeness,=20 Change from:=20 "This is not always the case."=20 Change to:=20 "Though this may occur, this is not always the case."=20 Reason: This makes the wording flow together, rather than sounding like two differing opinions from the same author.=20 [MB] I would take this one step further and change that sentence to the following, since it's not totally obvious what "this" refers to: "All cases of NATs do not introduce inaccuracies in the returned location. For example, ..." [/MB] C11. Section 4.1, pp2., s2., Clarify the following text to make the topology more understandable,=20 "For example, a NAT used in a residential Local Area Network (LAN) is typically not a problem. The external IP address used on the Wide Area Network (WAN) side of the NAT is an acceptable identifier for all of the devices in the residence since the covered geographical area is small.=20 Reason: It's not clear whether the intention is to differentiate between two separate topologies, one with a LAN and the other with a WAN, or only one topology that is a hybrid including both a LAN and a WAN portion. [MB] This is a single topology. Perhaps, we can clarify that second sentence as follows: "The external IP address used on the Wide Area Network (WAN) side of the NAT is an acceptable identifier for all of the devices in the residence, on the LAN side of the NAT, since the covered geographical area is small." [/MB] C12. Section 4.1, pp3., Clarify wording (2x).=20 Change from: "address"=20 Change to: "IP address"=20 [MB] Ok. [/MB] C13. Section 4.1.1, pp1., Change wording.=20 Change from:=20 "To minimize the impact of VPNs, Devices..."=20 Change to:=20 "To minimize the potential negating impact of VPNs, devices..."=20 [MB] I don't see how the "potential negating" really adds a whole lot of clarity to that statement. I would propose something like:=20 "In VPN scenarios, Devices should perform their HELD query, prior to establishing a VPN tunnel, to ensure the accuracy of the location information." [/MB] C14. Section 4.1.1, pp2., Change wording,=20 Change from:=20 "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a HELD LIS for those other devices."=20 Change to:=20 "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or other closed network may act as a LIS Proxy that implements the HELD protocol for those other devices."=20 Reason: It is not clear what a "HELD LIS" is. The implication here is that of a proxy to get location on-behalf-of another device - which implies a LIS-to-LIS protocol (not mentioned). [MB] I agree we shouldn't be qualifying the term LIS with HELD, but I don't think we want to introduce the term "LIS proxy" either. How about something like the following: "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or other closed network may serve as a LIS for those other devices."=20 [/MB] C15. Section 4.1.1, pp3, Clarify terminology, what is meant by the following phrase, "act as a LIS"? (taken from following statement: "VPN devices that act as a LIS MAY acquire their own location using HELD."=20 Something that acts like a LIS is either (probably) really a LIS, or something like a "LIS Proxy". Could be clearer.=20 [MB] Here again, I would propose changing the "act as" to "serve as" since the VPN is providing the functionality of a LIS. [/MB] C16. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., Change wording,=20 Change from:=20 "A LIS MUST NOT provide location information to a Device if it cannot provide accurate information."=20 Change from:=20 "It is the general expectation that a LIS not provide location information to a Device which is accurate information."=20 Reason: There seems to be a recurring mismatch between the description of what a protocol (HELD) interface is to a LIS - and that of the requirements for a LIS itself throughout this section, misplaced for what should be considered a black box to the interface. [MB] I agree with your point, but not the proposed rewording. That whole paragraph can be re-ordered/re-worded to more accurately relate that 1st sentence to the specific scenario being described. : OLD: " A LIS MUST NOT provide location information to a Device if it cannot provide accurate information. This applies where the Device uses a VPN connection or is behind a NAT that serves a large geographic area or multiple geographic locations (for example, a NAT used by an enterprise to connect their private network to the Internet). The LIS needs to be configured to recognize identifiers that represent these conditions." NEW:=20 " In the cases where the Device uses a VPN connection or is behind a NAT that serves a large geographic area or multiple geographic locations (for example, a NAT used by an enterprise to connect their private network to the Internet), the LIS may not be=20 able to return an accurate LI. If the LIS cannot determine an accurate LI,=20 it should not provide location information to the requesting device. The LIS needs to be configured to recognize identifiers that represent these conditions." [/MB] C17. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., General Comment, How can the original statement be resolved in light of location hiding, which is a purposeful attempt to make a location "inaccurate" (depending on how the term is defined). [MB] I don't think this document should address location hiding, but your point about the "MUST NOT provide ..." is a valid concern per your point C18 and my response to C16. [/MB] C18. General Comment - along the lines of comment C17: This draft advertises itself as a protocol spec, not a set of LIS requirements. The document needs to describe the in and the out of the HELD protocol interface, and should not intermingle other requirements, assumptions, and expectations of what a LIS (viewed as a black box) should do. [MB] As discussed at the meeting (per the minutes), there are cases where we have associated "musts" with discussion of how a LIS should handle processing for this protocol. In addition to the one you mention in C17, there is one in section 6.2, pp2., s2. I will scan the document and reword any others I find. The only MUSTS we should be applying to the LIS are specific to the protocol elements and security.=20 [/MB] ---=20 =20 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication or any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all attachments from your computer and network. _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 15:39:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2BtV-0006X9-Sf; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:57 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J2BtT-0006Tx-Rd for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:55 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2BtT-0006Tp-Hv for geopriv@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:55 -0500 Received: from aismt06p.bellsouth.com ([139.76.165.211]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2BtT-0001Kf-0i for geopriv@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:55 -0500 Received: from ([139.76.131.87]) by aismt06p.bellsouth.com with ESMTP id KP-AXPRN.35758238; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:26 -0500 Received: from 01NC27689010625.AD.BLS.COM ([90.144.44.200]) by 01GAF5142010623.AD.BLS.COM with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:26 -0500 Received: from 01NC27689010641.AD.BLS.COM ([90.144.44.103]) by 01NC27689010625.AD.BLS.COM with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:25 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2992 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELDdraft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:24 -0500 Message-ID: <7582BC68E4994F4ABF0BD4723975C3FA06ABBA64@crexc41p> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELDdraft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 thread-index: Acg34G9pccmQPl+KSXSyyNehaKteBAAkGSIAAPBPh+A= References: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508BED70B@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> From: "Stark, Barbara" To: "Mary Barnes" , "Roger Marshall" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2007 20:39:25.0755 (UTC) FILETIME=[EB3BB0B0:01C83C35] X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Mary, I agree with your replies to Roger's comments. You asked for feedback on the following: --------- snipped text of Roger's comment C7 and Mary's response ------ C7. Section 3, pp1., s4. Change wording.=20 Change from:=20 "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance."=20 Change to:=20 "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance, and finally, because it may be desired that external requests for a target location be cached in a LIS in order to alleviate load from the target device." Reason: The reason given as to why a LIS exists needs to be expanded to cover the idea of "storing location".=20 [MB] I would like more WG feedback on this. By definition, the LIS caches location information, but it was not my understanding that alleviating load on the target was a motivation. [/MB]=20 --------------end snipped text------------------------------- In the current HELD draft, we only have the source IP address as the identifier. Without extensions to support other IDs, the only way that the LIS could be used to alleviate load from the target device, is for the device to give out the (unsecured) location URI. Since we haven't defined a way for the LIS to be populated with security rules for who can dereference location, I think it would be a bad idea for us to encourage this use, or claim that it is desirable in some way. Therefore, I don't agree with adding this function to the description. To me, alleviating load from the target is more what I would expect from a Presence Server. There's nothing that would stop a server that has LIS functionality on it, from also being a SIP Presence server. Within the definition of Presence Server, we know how to do security and all sorts of URIs, including long-lasting ones, like SIP user IDs or IMS PUIDs. Let's not change the definition of LIS to somehow also incorporate the definition of a presence server. Barbara=20 ***** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to = which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or = privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other = use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by = persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If = you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the = material from all computers. GA623 _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From NellmidwinterConn@rutlandherald.com Tue Dec 11 16:22:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2CYj-0001Pp-R0 for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:22:33 -0500 Received: from [201.228.135.219] (helo=paraiso) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2CYh-0000p9-N3 for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:22:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host72631248.rutlandherald.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id xAwZPk6572.003819.2zv.40u.4090110472113 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:20:48 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Cherie Mcnamara" To: Subject: Your family Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:20:48 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_A67F2_01C83C3B.EDEDA290" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_A67F2_01C83C3B.EDEDA290 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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Please see my counter-comments, marked as "[rm]", in-line. Thanks. =20 -roger marshall. ________________________________ From: Thomson, Martin [mailto:Martin.Thomson@andrew.com]=20 Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:36 PM To: Roger Marshall; geopriv@ietf.org Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft:http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delive ry-03 =09 =09 Hi Roger, =20 Thanks for putting in the time. I've put some responses inline. Some of these might need a little more thought, but I've put down my opinions. =20 Cheers, Martin =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Roger Marshall [mailto:RMarshall@telecomsys.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 7:17 PM To: geopriv@ietf.org Subject: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft:http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delive ry-03 =20 Comments regarding the draft, http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 . =20 Note: This is a partial review, for the first half of the document - throught section 4 only. Additionally, most of the comments suggest minor, (yet IMO important), rewording changes - except, maybe for the last two, C17, C18 - which lead to bigger issues. -roger marshall.=20 ----=20 C1. Abstract, Clarify text,=20 Change from:=20 "...The protocol includes options for retrieving location information either by-value or by-reference."=20 Change to:=20 "...The protocol includes options for acquiring location information to an end device, either by-value or by-reference (or both)."=20 Reason: It could be misread to suggest that it may be possible to retrieve location "by-value" through some dereference step, instead of receiving location in a "by value" form as part of a Configuration Protocol. [MT] I see your point, but don't like "acquiring ... to". It doesn't read very well. Your comment (as with a similar later one) relates to whether we consider a location URI as "location information". In the abstract, I don't think that we need to address it - brevity being a virtue in this context. [rm] How about, "...The protocol includes options for a Device to acquire location information either by-value or by-reference form (or both)." C2. Introduction, Clarify text,=20 Change from:=20 "...mobile networks and wireless access networks."=20 Change to:=20 "...mobile networks."=20 Reason: Both mobile networks and wireless access networks share common characteristics. Is there a clear deliniation between the two? Maybe we could just say "mobile networks". [MT] I'd suggest instead that the statement read: "... scenarios in which the Device might rely on its access network to provide location information. The LIS service applies to access networks employing both wired technology (e.g. DSL, Cable) and wireless technology (e.g. WiMAX) with varying degrees of Device mobility."=20 [rm] I'd say, not quite - but would quote a scholar, "brevity being a virtue in this context".=20 C3. Intro, pp2., s1. Change wording,=20 change from:=20 "...two methods for acquiring LI."=20 change to: =20 "...two methods for receiving the acquired LI."=20 Reason: Problem here is that HELD (in this draft) shouldn't equate an LI to a location URI (see comment C9, below) - wording needs to be clearer. [MT] The LI isn't acquired until it is received.=20 [rm] yeah, I agree, not good enough. Need to make it clear, something like "...two methods for associating location...either directly, (i.e., an embedded form of location, a PIDF-LO), or indirectly, (i.e., a location URI, or pointer to location)..." C4. Intro, pp2., Clarify wording:=20 "Both of these methods are compatible..." =20 Reason: Question is, compatible with what? Need to say something like, compatible [with each other for a single request/response, or ]. [MT] I think that the rest of the sentence provides adequate clarification: "...both can be provided concurrently from the same LIS..."=20 [rm] no real contest here (just seemed improper to introduce the phrase "these methods" without reference to what they were first).=20 C5. Section 3, Overview and Scope, pp1., s2., Change wording=20 Change from:=20 "The LIS is present within the same administrative domain as the Device (the access network).=20 Change to:=20 "For this document, we make the assumption that the LIS is present within the same administrative domain as the Device (the access network)." Reason: Same domain assumption needs spelled out, since it is possible for LIS elements to exist in core network domains also. [MT] This is merely stating the definition of what a LIS is. This isn't an assumption. As far as a LIS that exists in the "core network" goes, that is entirely possible, but it remains in the same "administrative" domain. The access network administration is still providing the service, even if the actual LIS is physically connected to another part of the Internet. If you think that a definition is necessary, then we can discuss where it belongs.=20 [rm] granted, the domain is different, but is still consistent between Device and LIS. New suggestion then to make the wording not so exclusive sounding, change "(the access network)" to "(e.g., the access network)". C6. Section 3, pp1., s3. Change wording.=20 Change from:=20 "An Access Provider (AP) operates the LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can retrieve LI."=20 Change to:=20 "For this document, it is assumed that an Access Provider (AP) operates the LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can retrieve LI."=20 Reason: same "state the assumption" comment needed as above.=20 [MT] Same response as above.=20 [rm] no contest here, given my suggested prior change.=20 C7. Section 3, pp1., s4. Change wording.=20 Change from:=20 "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance."=20 Change to:=20 "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance, and finally, because it may be desired that external requests for a target location be cached in a LIS in order to alleviate load from the target device." Reason: The reason given as to why a LIS exists needs to be expanded to cover the idea of "storing location".=20 [MT] The list wasn't intended to be exhaustive. This is the second time that the word "cache" or "caching" has arisen lately. Can I suggest that we leave the opening of that particular can of worms until another day?=20 [rm] statements such as, "The LIS exists...", when left unqualified, do seem to be all-inclusive. I will defer to separate thread - the "caching" or "location storing" discussion. C8. Section 3, pp1., s5., change wording, since there are more ways to come up with a location than just by derivation methods. Change from:=20 "This document does not specify how LI is derived."=20 Change to:=20 "This document does not specify how LI is determined (i.e., provisioned, measured, or derived)."=20 [MT] Agreed. The parenthesized definition of "determined" isn't necessary though.=20 [rm] agree.=20 C9. Section 4, pp1., s1., Clarify wording,=20 Change from:=20 "The HELD protocol facilitates retrieval of LI either by-value, as a PIDF-LO document, or by-reference..."=20 Change to:=20 "The HELD protocol facilitates the acquisition to the device, either of an LI directly via by-value, as a PIDF-LO document, or that of acquiring LI indirectly, via by-reference..." Reason: Here, the "LI" term seems to be equated to either an LbyV LO or an LbyR location URI, whereas in the text following, (Section 4, pp3., s3.), it equates the LI to the object that a Location URI points to (LI should not be equated to a location URI, but to the LI which the location URI points to), "A Location URI is a URI [21 ] of any scheme, which a Location Recipient (LR) can use to retrieve LI."=20 [MT] I see the problem. The question is: what is the thing that a location URI and a location object are both instances of? I don't know the answer to that question. Besides, I can't swallow your use of "acquisition to". "Acquisition" is a "pull" word, whereas "to" is a "push" word. =20 [rm] I'll grant you my mis-use of "acquisition... to". To your question (an because the word 'reference' would be redundant), both these methods are 'associations' of location information. I cite the suggested from C3, "...two methods for associating location...either directly, (i.e., an embedded form of location, a PIDF-LO), or indirectly, (i.e., a location URI, or pointer to location)..." C10. Section 4.1, pp2., s1., Change wording for completeness,=20 Change from:=20 "This is not always the case."=20 Change to:=20 "Though this may occur, this is not always the case."=20 Reason: This makes the wording flow together, rather than sounding like two differing opinions from the same author.=20 [MT] Using "this" on the start of the paragraph is bad form too. Suggest: "In some cases, LI provided by the LIS to a Device on the remote side of a NAT or VPN device could be sufficiently accurate. The LIS MAY provide LI in this case. For example, ..."=20 [rm] agree.=20 C11. Section 4.1, pp2., s2., Clarify the following text to make the topology more understandable,=20 "For example, a NAT used in a residential Local Area Network (LAN) is typically not a problem. The external IP address used on the Wide Area Network (WAN) side of the NAT is an acceptable identifier for all of the devices in the residence since the covered geographical area is small.=20 Reason: It's not clear whether the intention is to differentiate between two separate topologies, one with a LAN and the other with a WAN, or only one topology that is a hybrid including both a LAN and a WAN portion. [MT] This case is covered in some detail in the problem statement. I'm not sure what your concern is. It is perhaps better to use "Internet" instead of Wide Area Network (WAN)", would that work?=20 [rm] Use of the term "Internet" would be better, if that's what this is talking about (my original confusion was around the picture in my mind of, LAN---WAN; WAN---LAN; or WAN---LAN---WAN, etc.)=20 C12. Section 4.1, pp3., Clarify wording (2x).=20 Change from: "address"=20 Change to: "IP address"=20 [MT] Good. C13. Section 4.1.1, pp1., Change wording.=20 Change from:=20 "To minimize the impact of VPNs, Devices..."=20 Change to:=20 "To minimize the potential negating impact of VPNs, devices..."=20 [MT] "potentially negative". And please don't down case Devices where it applies to the client of the LIS.=20 [rm] yes, and point taken. Thanks. C14. Section 4.1.1, pp2., Change wording,=20 Change from:=20 "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a HELD LIS for those other devices."=20 Change to:=20 "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a LIS Proxy that implements the HELD protocol for those other devices."=20 Reason: It is not clear what a "HELD LIS" is. The implication here is that of a proxy to get location on-behalf-of another device - which implies a LIS-to-LIS protocol (not mentioned). [MT] Anything acting as a LIS *is* a LIS. There is no LIS Proxy *waves hand*.=20 [rm] agree that anything that acts as a LIS *is* a LIS, let's clear up any wrong notion that a LIS can't exist unless it supports the HELD protocol. Simply suggest striking the term "Proxy", hence: "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a LIS that implements the HELD protocol for those other [D?]devices." C15. Section 4.1.1, pp3, Clarify terminology, what is meant by the following phrase, "act as a LIS"? (taken from following statement: "VPN devices that act as a LIS MAY acquire their own location using HELD."=20 Something that acts like a LIS is either (probably) really a LIS, or something like a "LIS Proxy". Could be clearer.=20 [MT] As above, so below. C16. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., Change wording,=20 Change from:=20 "A LIS MUST NOT provide location information to a Device if it cannot provide accurate information."=20 Change from:=20 "It is the general expectation that a LIS not provide location information to a Device which is accurate information."=20 Reason: There seems to be a recurring mismatch between the description of what a protocol (HELD) interface is to a LIS - and that of the requirements for a LIS itself throughout this section, misplaced for what should be considered a black box to the interface. [MT] This requirement relates to the protocol in that a Device implementing the protocol can be assured of the veracity of any response provided by a LIS. Without a strong requirement (as you suggest) the Device is unable to rely on the contents of the message. Anything that can appear on the wire is fair game and the location information provided by the LIS falls into that category. It is not unreasonable to demand that it be correct.=20 [rm] No, if this were a requirement on the HELD protocol, the requirement might state, "The protocol MUST accept from the LIS and provide to the Device complete location information, including confidence and uncertainty, (as applicable to geo), as well as a trust-chain-of-authority in order to attest to the credibility of the location information." (Note: Error in my original wording as cited, should have read "...LIS provide..." rather than as was stated, "...LIS not provide...".) C17. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., General Comment, How can the original statement be resolved in light of location hiding, which is a purposeful attempt to make a location "inaccurate" (depending on how the term is defined). [MT] Location hiding shouldn't have any impact on this document. The term "accurate" is used in a manner conforming with draft-thomson-geopriv-uncertainty - that is, as a qualitative term. Location information can be accurate without necessarily being particularly useful. Case in point, the statement: "You are here."=20 [rm] The question is - whether or not Location information can be *accurate* without necessarily being precise enough for routing or dispatch? It sounds like you're saying that it can be. This should likely be explored on a different thread. C18. General Comment - along the lines of comment C17: This draft advertises itself as a protocol spec, not a set of LIS requirements. The document needs to describe the in and the out of the HELD protocol interface, and should not intermingle other requirements, assumptions, and expectations of what a LIS (viewed as a black box) should do. [MT] See above statement. ---=20 =20 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be pr= ivileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or res= ponsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review,= forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication o= r any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this messa= ge in error, please notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all at= tachments from your computer and network. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83C40.CEAF7569 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [GeoPriv]: Review= comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http= -location-delivery-03 Martin: I appreciate your responses. Please see my=20 counter-comments, marked as "[rm]", in-line. =20 Thanks. -roger marshall. From: Thomson, Martin=20 [mailto:Martin.Thomson@andrew.com] Sent: Monday, December 10, = 2007=20 8:36 PM To: Roger Marshall; geopriv@ietf.org Subject:= RE:=20 [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD=20 draft:http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-deliver= y-03 Hi=20 Roger, <= /o:p> Thanks for p= utting=20 in the time. I’ve put some responses inline. Some of th= ese might=20 need a little more thought, but I’ve put down my=20 opinions. <= /o:p> Cheers,= Martin<= /o:p> <= /o:p> From: Roger=20 Marshall [mailto:RMarshall@telecomsys.com] Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2007 7:= 17=20 PM To:=20 geopriv@ietf.org Subject:<= /B>=20 [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD=20 draft:http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-deliver= y-03 Comments regarding the draf= t,=20 http://tools.ietf.org/html/= draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03. =20 Note: This is a partial rev= iew,=20 for the first half of the document - throught section 4 only. =20 Additionally, most of the comments suggest minor, (yet IMO important),=20 rewording changes - except, maybe for the last two, C17, C18 - which lead= to=20 bigger issues. -roger marshall.=20 ---- C1. Abstract, Clarify text,= =20 Change from:= =20 "...The protocol includ= es=20 options for retrieving location information either by-val= ue or=20 by-reference." Change to:=20 "...The protocol includ= es=20 options for acquiring locati= on=20 information to an end device, either by-value or by-reference (or=20 both)." Reason: It could be misread= to=20 suggest that it may be possible to retrieve location "by-value" through s= ome=20 dereference step, instead of receiving location in a "by value" form as p= art=20 of a Configuration Protocol. [MT] I see y= our=20 point, but don’t like “acquiring … to”. It = doesn’t read very well. =20 Your comment (as with a similar later one) relates to whether we consider= a=20 location URI as “location information”. In the abstract= , I don’t think=20 that we need to address it – brevity being a virtue in this=20 context. <= SPAN=20 class=3D849355019-11122007>[rm] How about, "...The = protocol=20 includes options for a Device to acquire location information either by-v= alue=20 or by-reference form (or both)." C2. Introduction, Clarify=20 text, Change from:= =20 "...mobile networks and= =20 wireless access networks." = Change to: "...mobile networks."=20 Reason: Both mobile network= s and=20 wireless access networks share common characteristics. Is there a c= lear=20 deliniation between the two? Maybe we could just say "mobile=20 networks". [MT] I’= ;d suggest=20 instead that the statement read: “… scenarios in which the De= vice might rely=20 on its access network to provide location information. The LIS serv= ice=20 applies to access networks employing both wired technology (e.g. DSL, Cab= le)=20 and wireless technology (e.g. WiMAX) with varying degrees of Device=20 mobility.” [rm] I'd say, not quite&= nbsp;-=20 but would quote a scholar, "brevity being a virtue in this=20 context". C3. Intro, pp2., s1. = Change=20 wording, change from:= =20 "...two methods for acquiri= ng LI."=20 change to: =20 "...two methods for receivi= ng the=20 acquired LI." Reason: Problem here is tha= t HELD=20 (in this draft) shouldn't equate an LI to a location URI (see comment C9,= =20 below) - wording needs to be clearer. [MT] The LI = isn’t=20 acquired until it is received. [rm] yeah, I agree,= not good=20 enough. Need to make it clear, something like "...two methods for=20 associating location...either directly, (i.e., an embedded form of locati= on,=20 a PIDF-LO), or indirectly, (i.e., a location URI, or pointer to= =20 location)..." C4. Intro, pp2., Clarify=20 wording: "Both of these metho= ds are=20 compatible..." Reason: Question is= ,=20 compatible with what? Need to say something like, compatible [with = each=20 other for a single request/response, or=20 <???>]. [MT] I think= that=20 the rest of the sentence provides adequate clarification: “…b= oth can be=20 provided concurrently from the same LIS…” [rm] no real contest her= e (just=20 seemed improper to introduce the phrase "these methods" without refe= rence=20 to what they were first). C5. Section 3, Over= view=20 and Scope, pp1., s2., Change wording Change from:= =20 "The LIS is present= within=20 the same administrative doma= in as=20 the Device (the access network). Chan= ge to:=20 "For this document,= we=20 make the assumption that the LIS is present within the same= =20 administrative doma= in as=20 the Device (the access network)." Reason: Same domain= =20 assumption needs spelled out, since it is possible for LIS elements to ex= ist=20 in core network domains also. [MT] This is= merely=20 stating the definition of what a LIS is. This isn’t an assump= tion. =20 As far as a LIS that exists in the “core network” goes, that = is entirely=20 possible, but it remains in the same “administrative” domain.= The access=20 network administration is still providing the service, even if the actual= LIS=20 is physically connected to another part of the Internet. If you thi= nk=20 that a definition is necessary, then we can discuss where it belongs. [rm] granted, the d= omain is=20 different, but is still consistent between Device and LIS. New= =20 suggestion then to make the wording not so exclusive sounding, change "(t= he=20 access network)" to "(e.g., the access=20 network)". C6. Section 3, pp1.= ,=20 s3. Change wording. Chan= ge=20 from: "An Access=20 Provider (AP) opera= tes the=20 LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can retrieve=20 LI." Change to:=20 "For this document,= it is=20 assumed that an Access = Provider (AP) opera= tes the=20 LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can retrieve=20 LI." Reason: same "state= the=20 assumption" comment needed as above. [MT] Same re= sponse=20 as above. [rm] no contest here, gi= ven my=20 suggested prior change. C7. Section 3, pp1.= ,=20 s4. Change wording. Chan= ge=20 from: "The LIS exists bec= ause=20 not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and becaus= e,=20 even if a device is able to determine its own LI, it may = be=20 more efficient with assistance." Chan= ge=20 to: "The LIS exists bec= ause=20 not all Devices are capable of determining LI, and becaus= e,=20 even if a device is able to determine its own LI, it may = be=20 more efficient with assistance, and finally, because it may be desired th= at=20 external requests for a target location be cached in a LIS in order to=20 alleviate load from the target device." Reason: The reason = given=20 as to why a LIS exists needs to be expanded to cover the idea of "storing= =20 location". [MT] The lis= t=20 wasn’t intended to be exhaustive. This is the second time tha= t the word=20 “cache” or “caching” has arisen lately. Can= I suggest that we leave the=20 opening of that particular can of worms until another day? [rm] statements such as,= "The LIS=20 exists...", when left unqualified, do seem to be all-inclusive. I w= ill=20 defer to separate thread - the "caching" or "location=20 storing" discussion. C8. Section 3, pp1.= , s5.,=20 change wording, since there are more ways to come up with a location than= just=20 by derivation methods. Change from:= =20 "This=20 document does not specify ho= w LI is=20 derived." Change to:=20 "This=20 document does not specify ho= w LI is=20 determined (i.e., provisioned, measur= ed,=20 or derived)."=20 [MT] Agreed.= =20 The parenthesized definition of “determined” isn’t nece= ssary though. [rm]=20 agree. C9. Section 4, pp1.= , s1.,=20 Clarify wording, Change from:= =20 "The HELD protocol= =20 facilitates retrieval of LI either by-value, as a PIDF-LO document, o= r=20 by-reference..." Change to:=20 "The HELD protocol= =20 facilitates the acquisition to = the=20 device, either of an LI directly via by-value, as a PIDF-LO document, o= r that=20 of acquiring LI indirectly, via <= FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>by-reference..." Reason: Here, the "= LI"=20 term seems to be equated to either an LbyV LO or an LbyR location URI, wh= ereas=20 in the text following, (Section 4, pp3., s3.), it equates the LI to the o= bject=20 that a Location URI points to (LI should not be equated to a location URI= , but=20 to the LI which the location URI points to), "A Location URI is = a URI=20 [21] of any scheme,=20 which a Location Recipien= t (LR)=20 can use to retrieve LI." [MT] I see t= he=20 problem. The question is: what is the thing that a location URI and= a=20 location object are both instances of? I don’t know the answe= r to that=20 question. Besides, I can’t swallow your use of “acquisi= tion to”. =20 “Acquisition” is a “pull” word, whereas “to= ” is a “push” word. [rm] I'll grant you= my=20 mis-use of "acquisition... to". To your question (an because t= he=20 word 'reference' would be redundant), both these methods are 'association= s' of=20 location information. I cite the suggested from C3, "...two methods for ass= ociating=20 location...either directly, (i.e., an embedded form of location,=20 a PIDF-LO), or indirectly, (i.e., a location URI, or pointer to= =20 location)..."= C10. Section 4.1, p= p2.,=20 s1., Change wording for completeness, Change from:= =20 "This is not always= the=20 case." Change to:=20 "Though this may oc= cur,=20 this is not always the case." Reason: This makes = the=20 wording flow together, rather than sounding like two differing opinions f= rom=20 the same author. [MT] Using &= #8220;this”=20 on the start of the paragraph is bad form too. Suggest: “In s= ome cases,=20 LI provided by the LIS to a Device on the remote side of a NAT or VPN dev= ice=20 could be sufficiently accurate. The LIS MAY provide LI in this=20 case. For example, …” [rm]=20 agree. C11. Section 4.1, p= p2.,=20 s2., Clarify the following text to make the topology more=20 understandable, "For example, a NAT= used=20 in a residential Local Area Network (LAN) is typically no= t a=20 problem. The external IP address used on the Wide A= rea=20 Network (WAN) side of the NAT is an acceptable identifier= for=20 all of the devices in the residence since the covered=20 geographical area is small. Reason: It's not cl= ear=20 whether the intention is to differentiate between two separate topologies= , one=20 with a LAN and the other with a WAN, or only one topology that is a hybri= d=20 including both a LAN and a WAN portion. [MT] This ca= se is=20 covered in some detail in the problem statement. I’m not sure= what your=20 concern is. It is perhaps better to use “Internet” inst= ead of Wide Area=20 Network (WAN)”, would that work? [rm] Use of the term "In= ternet"=20 would be better, if that's what this is talking about (my original=20 confusion was around the picture in my mind of, LAN---WAN; WAN---LAN; or= =20 WAN---LAN---WAN, etc.) C12. Section 4.1, p= p3.,=20 Clarify wording (2x). Change from:=20 "address" Change to: "IP addr= ess"=20 [MT]=20 Good. C13. Section 4.1.1,= pp1.,=20 Change wording. Change from:= =20 "To minimize the im= pact of=20 VPNs, Devices..." <= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Change to:=20 "To minimize=20 the potential=20 negating impact of VPNs,=20 devices..." [MT] “= potentially=20 negative”. And please don’t down case Devices where it = applies to the=20 client of the LIS. [rm] yes, and point=20 taken. Thanks. C14. Section 4.1.1,= pp2.,=20 Change wording, Change from:=20 "Devices that estab= lish=20 VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or = other=20 closed network MAY act as a HELD LIS for those other=20 devices." Change to:=20 "Devices that estab= lish=20 VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or = other=20 closed network MAY act as a LIS Proxy that implements the HELD protocol f= or=20 those other devices." Reason: It is not c= lear=20 what a "HELD LIS" is. The implication here is that of a proxy to ge= t=20 location on-behalf-of another device - which implies a LIS-to-LIS protoco= l=20 (not mentioned). [MT] Anythin= g=20 acting as a LIS *is* a=20 LIS. There is no LIS Proxy *wa= ves=20 hand*. [rm] agree that anything= that=20 acts as a LIS *is* a LIS, let's clear up any wrong notion that a LIS can'= t=20 exist unless it supports the HELD protocol. Simply suggest striking the t= erm=20 "Proxy", hence: "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other= =20 devices inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a LIS that=20 implements the HELD protocol for those other=20 [D?]devices." C15. Section 4.1.1,= pp3,=20 Clarify terminology, what is meant by the following phrase, "act as a=20 LIS"? (taken from following statement: "VPN devices that a= ct as a=20 LIS MAY acquire their own location using HELD."=20 Something that acts= like a=20 LIS is either (probably) really a LIS, or something like a "LIS Proxy".&n= bsp;=20 Could be clearer. [MT] As abov= e, so=20 below. C16. Section 4.1.2,= pp1.,=20 s1., Change wording, Change from:= =20 "A LIS MUST NOT pro= vide=20 location information to a Device if it cannot provide acc= urate=20 information." Change from:= =20 "It is the general= =20 expectation that a LIS = not provide locatio= n=20 information to a Device which is accurate=20 information." Reason: There seems= to be=20 a recurring mismatch between the description of what a protocol (HELD)=20 interface is to a LIS - and that of the requirements for a LIS itself=20 throughout this section, misplaced for what should be considered a black = box=20 to the interface. [MT] This=20 requirement relates to the protocol in that a Device implementing the pro= tocol=20 can be assured of the veracity of any response provided by a LIS. =20 Without a strong requirement (as you suggest) the Device is unable to rel= y on=20 the contents of the message. Anything that can appear on the wire i= s=20 fair game and the location information provided by the LIS falls into tha= t=20 category. It is not unreasonable to demand that it be correct. [rm] No, if this we= re a=20 requirement on the HELD protocol, the requirement might state,=20 "The protocol MUST accept from the LIS and provide to the Devic= e=20 complete location information, including confidence and uncertainty,= (as=20 applicable to geo), as well as a trust-chain-of-authority in order to att= est=20 to the credibility of the location information." (Note: Error = in my=20 original wording as cited, should have read "...LIS provide..." rath= er=20 than as was stated, "...LIS not provide...".)= C17. Section 4.1.2,= pp1.,=20 s1., General Comment, How can the original statement be resolved in light= of=20 location hiding, which is a purposeful attempt to make a location "inaccu= rate"=20 (depending on how the term is defined). [MT] Locatio= n=20 hiding shouldn’t have any impact on this document. The term &= #8220;accurate”=20 is used in a manner conforming with draft-thomson-geopriv-uncertainty = 211; that=20 is, as a qualitative term. Location information can be accurate wit= hout=20 necessarily being particularly useful. Case in point, the statement= :=20 “You are here.” [rm] The question is - w= hether or=20 not Location information can be *accurate* without necessarily being prec= ise=20 enough for routing or dispatch? It sounds like you're saying that i= t can=20 be. This should likely be explored on a different=20 thread. C18. General Comment = - along=20 the lines of comment C17: This draft advertises itself as a protocol spec= , not=20 a set of LIS requirements. The document needs to describe the in an= d the=20 out of the HELD protocol interface, and should not intermingle other=20 requirements, assumptions, and expectations of what a LIS (viewed as a bl= ack=20 box) should do. [MT] See abo= ve=20 statement. --- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTI= CE: The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or conf= idential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for deliver= ing this message to the intended recipient, any review, forwarding, dissemi= nation, distribution or copying of this communication or any attachment(s) = is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please = notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all attachments from your = computer and network. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C83C40.CEAF7569-- --===============2109169064== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv --===============2109169064==-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 16:58:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2D7E-0004RV-J4; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:58:12 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J2D7D-0004RO-KC for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:58:11 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2D7D-0004RG-AF for geopriv@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:58:11 -0500 Received: from sea-mimesweep-1.telecomsys.com ([206.173.41.176]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2D79-0003EL-IR for geopriv@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:58:11 -0500 Received: from SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com (unverified [10.32.12.7]) by sea-mimesweep-1.telecomsys.com (Clearswift SMTPRS 5.2.9) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:58:06 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:58:04 -0800 Message-ID: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508C419F6@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: Acg34G9pccmQPl+KSXSyyNehaKteBAAkGSIAAO+ykbA= References: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508BED70B@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> From: "Roger Marshall" To: "Mary Barnes" , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a2c4a3535d1556ada67f8703d3d31591 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Mary: Thanks for combing through these comments. I've included responses in-line, denoted by "[rm]". Some of these may be cross-linked to my counter-comments back to Martin Thompson's prior email, which I just replied to. -roger marshall. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mary.barnes@nortel.com]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:31 AM > To: Roger Marshall; geopriv@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft:=20 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de livery-03 >=20 > Hi Roger, > =20 > Thanks for your review and comments. My responses are=20 > embedded below [MB]. Also, note that I'm not using CAPs for=20 > things like "may" and "should" in most of the responses,=20 > since they are recommendations for device and LIS behaviors,=20 > and are not describing normative protocol functionality. =20 > This is another general change that needs to be made to the document.=20 >=20 > Note, I have not reviewed Martin's responses yet, so we'll=20 > resolve any differences in a separate email.=20 >=20 > Mary.=20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > From: Roger Marshall [mailto:RMarshall@telecomsys.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:17 AM > To: geopriv@ietf.org > Subject: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de livery-03 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Comments regarding the draft, > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de livery-03 > > . =20 >=20 > Note: This is a partial review, for the first half of the document - > throught section 4 only. Additionally, most of the comments suggest > minor, (yet IMO important), rewording changes - except, maybe for the > last two, C17, C18 - which lead to bigger issues. >=20 > -roger marshall.=20 >=20 > ----=20 >=20 > C1. Abstract, Clarify text,=20 > Change from:=20 > "...The protocol includes options for retrieving > location information either by-value or by-reference."=20 > Change to:=20 > "...The protocol includes options for acquiring > location information to an end device, either by-value or > by-reference (or both)."=20 >=20 > Reason: It could be misread to suggest that it may be possible to > retrieve location "by-value" through some dereference step, instead of > receiving location in a "by value" form as part of a Configuration > Protocol.=20 >=20 > [MB] I'm not clear on your specific reason, but I agree that it does > need to include that both can be acquired by a device. I would suggest > something like:=20 > "The protocol allows a device to acquire the location=20 > information in two > forms: by-value and by-reference." > [/MB] [rm] Close to what I was trying to get at. How about, "...The protocol includes options for a Device to acquire location information either by-value or by-reference form (or both)." (My objection to the original wording was because with the use of "retrieve", the original text seemed more indicative of a Dereference Protocol than of a Configuration Protocol.) >=20 > C2. Introduction, Clarify text,=20 > Change from:=20 > "...mobile networks and wireless access networks."=20 > Change to:=20 > "...mobile networks."=20 >=20 > Reason: Both mobile networks and wireless access networks share common > characteristics. Is there a clear deliniation between the two? Maybe > we could just say "mobile networks". >=20 > [MB] "mobile networks" is not general enough. In my=20 > experience, "mobile > networks" refers to the cellular networks that we all use for our cell > phones and includes more than just the access network. =20 > Wikipedia agrees > with me as it brings up "Cellular networks" when you search for mobile > network. I consider wireless access networks to be a more=20 > general term > that encompasses wireless lan and WIMAX. If we want the most general > term, then we could replace both the terms with "wireless networks". > [/MB] [rm] The fact is that both terms "mobile" and "wireless" have context baggage associated with them. I don't think that "wireless" is more general than the term "mobile" in its most fundamental sense. For example, you might be on a ship, plane, train, or spaceship using either a wired or wireless first link connection. For location purposes an external viewer sees your position as mobile - inside the craft, the location/position may be static, but is also relative. Wireless can be easily divide into two technologies relevant for this discussion, Wireless/CS, and Wireless/PS. Neither of these terms helps to clarify. To some, it may seem like a trivial difference, but it sets the foundation for future discussions. I think the right term to use is "mobile". >=20 > C3. Intro, pp2., s1. Change wording,=20 > change from:=20 > "...two methods for acquiring LI."=20 > change to: =20 > "...two methods for receiving the acquired LI."=20 >=20 > Reason: Problem here is that HELD (in this draft) shouldn't=20 > equate an LI > to a location URI (see comment C9, below) - wording needs to=20 > be clearer. >=20 > [MB] That sentence doesn't equate the two types of location=20 > information > and the next two sentences distinctly state how they are=20 > different. Both > types are received (from a protocol perspective) in the same manner > through a Location Response. To be more specific, we should perhaps > reword that sentence as follows: > OLD: > This specification identifies two methods for acquiring LI. > NEW: > This specification identifies two types of location information that > may be acquired.=20 > [/MB] [rm] ah, the real question here is what does an "LI" blob, (i.e., Location Information), equate to. Is an LI to be viewed one in the same as a well-formed PIDF-LO? [yes], or a location URI? [no]! >=20 > C4. Intro, pp2., Clarify wording:=20 > "Both of these methods are compatible..." =20 >=20 > Reason: Question is, compatible with what? Need to say=20 > something like, > compatible [with each other for a single request/response, or ]. > [MB] I think the "compatible" was meant to imply that they=20 > both use the > same protocol mechanism, but I can see that is not quite=20 > clear. I would > propose to just remove that beginning part of the sentence and reword > the sentence from: > OLD: > Both of these methods are compatible, and both can be provided > concurrently from > the same LIS so that application needs can be addressed=20 > individually. > =20 > NEW: > Both of these methods can be provided concurrently from the same LIS > to accommodate application > requirements for different types of location information.=20 > [/MB] [rm] agree. >=20 > C5. Section 3, Overview and Scope, pp1., s2., Change wording=20 > Change from:=20 > "The LIS is present within the same administrative domain as=20 > the Device > (the access network).=20 > Change to:=20 > "For this document, we make the assumption that the LIS is present > within the same administrative domain as the Device (the access > network)." >=20 > Reason: Same domain assumption needs spelled out, since it is possible > for LIS elements to exist in core network domains also. >=20 > [MB] Okay. I'll just suggest some slightly different wording: > "This document assumes that the LIS is present within the same > administrative domain as the Device (the access network)." > [/MB] [rm] New suggestion is to make the wording not so exclusive sounding, change "(the access network)" to "(e.g., the access network)". >=20 > C6. Section 3, pp1., s3. Change wording.=20 > Change from:=20 > "An Access Provider (AP) operates the LIS so that Devices=20 > (and Targets) > can > retrieve LI."=20 > Change to:=20 > "For this document, it is assumed that an Access Provider=20 > (AP) operates > the LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can > retrieve LI."=20 >=20 > Reason: same "state the assumption" comment needed as above.=20 > [MB] It's not clear to me which part of the sentence to which you want > this assumption applied. I don't think we need to re-iterate the > assumption about the LIS being in the access network since we=20 > just said > that in the previous sentence. And, I don't think we're assuming that > the LIS is there, so that the device can acquire LI. But, if others > agree that this is necessary, I'll add the text.=20 > [/MB] [rm] This is ok as stands, if the prior change in C5 is taken into account. >=20 > C7. Section 3, pp1., s4. Change wording.=20 > Change from:=20 > "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of > determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine > its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance."=20 > Change to:=20 > "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of > determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine > its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance, and finally, > because it may be desired that external requests for a target location > be cached in a LIS in order to alleviate load from the target device." >=20 > Reason: The reason given as to why a LIS exists needs to be=20 > expanded to > cover the idea of "storing location".=20 >=20 > [MB] I would like more WG feedback on this. By definition, the LIS > caches location information, but it was not my understanding that > alleviating load on the target was a motivation. [/MB] [rm] I'll defer to a separate thread. >=20 > C8. Section 3, pp1., s5., change wording, since there are more ways to > come up with a location than just by derivation methods. >=20 > Change from:=20 > "This document does not specify how LI is derived."=20 > Change to:=20 > "This document does not specify how LI is determined (i.e.,=20 > provisioned, > measured, or derived)." >=20 > [MB] I agree with your point, but am reluctant to restrict how LI is > determined, per the i.e., since the alternatives are better=20 > described in > RFC 3693. So, I would propose: > "This document does not specify how LI is determined." > [/MB] [rm] agree. > =20 >=20 > C9. Section 4, pp1., s1., Clarify wording,=20 > Change from:=20 > "The HELD protocol facilitates retrieval of LI either by-value, as a > PIDF-LO document, or by-reference..."=20 > Change to:=20 > "The HELD protocol facilitates the acquisition to the device,=20 > either of > an LI directly via by-value, as a PIDF-LO document, or that=20 > of acquiring > LI indirectly, via by-reference..." >=20 > Reason: Here, the "LI" term seems to be equated to either an=20 > LbyV LO or > an LbyR location URI, whereas in the text following, (Section 4, pp3., > s3.), it equates the LI to the object that a Location URI=20 > points to (LI > should not be equated to a location URI, but to the LI which the > location URI points to), >=20 > "A Location URI is a URI [21 > #ref-21> ] of any scheme, which a Location Recipient (LR) can use to > retrieve LI."=20 >=20 > [MB] I see your point. I also think this isn't the only place=20 > that this > slight mis-statement exists, so I will make a note to look for others. > I would prefer something along the lines in terms of clarification: > "The HELD protocol facilitates retrieval of location directly in the > form of a PIDF-LO document > (by-value) and indirectly as a Location URI (by-reference)."=20 > [/MB] [rm] or... of *both*. >=20 > C10. Section 4.1, pp2., s1., Change wording for completeness,=20 > Change from:=20 > "This is not always the case."=20 > Change to:=20 > "Though this may occur, this is not always the case."=20 >=20 > Reason: This makes the wording flow together, rather than=20 > sounding like > two differing opinions from the same author.=20 > [MB] I would take this one step further and change that=20 > sentence to the > following, since it's not totally obvious what "this" refers to: > "All cases of NATs do not introduce inaccuracies in the returned > location. For example, ..." > [/MB] [rm] I'm ok with the clarification here and/or from Martin Thompson's (separate email) suggested text. >=20 > C11. Section 4.1, pp2., s2., Clarify the following text to make the > topology more understandable,=20 >=20 > "For example, a NAT used in a > residential Local Area Network (LAN) is typically not a=20 > problem. The > external IP address used on the Wide Area Network (WAN) side of the > NAT is an acceptable identifier for all of the devices in the > residence since the covered geographical area is small.=20 >=20 > Reason: It's not clear whether the intention is to=20 > differentiate between > two separate topologies, one with a LAN and the other with a WAN, or > only one topology that is a hybrid including both a LAN and a WAN > portion. >=20 > [MB] This is a single topology. Perhaps, we can clarify that second > sentence as follows: > "The external IP address used on the Wide Area Network=20 > (WAN) side of > the > NAT is an acceptable identifier for all of the devices in the > residence, on the LAN side of the NAT, since the covered=20 > geographical > area is small." > [/MB] [rm] better than it was. >=20 >=20 > C12. Section 4.1, pp3., Clarify wording (2x).=20 > Change from: "address"=20 > Change to: "IP address"=20 > [MB] Ok. [/MB] >=20 > C13. Section 4.1.1, pp1., Change wording.=20 > Change from:=20 > "To minimize the impact of VPNs, Devices..."=20 > Change to:=20 > "To minimize the potential negating impact of VPNs, devices..."=20 > [MB] I don't see how the "potential negating" really adds a=20 > whole lot of > clarity to that statement. I would propose something like:=20 > "In VPN scenarios, Devices should perform their HELD > query, prior to establishing a VPN tunnel, to ensure the accuracy of > the location information." > [/MB] [rm] sorry - meant "potentially negating...". Implication here is that VPNs do something (i.e., they impact), but it is not mentioned that they are likely to be detrimental to the location configuration process. Your rewording captures the important aspect of the "freshness" of location, but doesn't address the negative impact of doing another location configuration step *after* a VPN is established, thereby getting a *bogus* location. >=20 > C14. Section 4.1.1, pp2., Change wording,=20 > Change from:=20 > "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices > inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a HELD LIS=20 > for those > other devices."=20 > Change to:=20 > "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices > inside a LAN or other closed network may act as a LIS Proxy that > implements the HELD protocol for those > other devices."=20 >=20 > Reason: It is not clear what a "HELD LIS" is. The implication here is > that of a proxy to get location on-behalf-of another device - which > implies a LIS-to-LIS protocol (not mentioned). >=20 > [MB] I agree we shouldn't be qualifying the term LIS with HELD, but I > don't think we want to introduce the term "LIS proxy" either.=20 > How about > something like the following: > "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices > inside a LAN or other closed network may serve as a LIS for those > other devices."=20 > [/MB] [rm] Simply suggest striking the term "Proxy" from my original suggestion, therefore the sentence would read, "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a LIS that implements the HELD protocol for those other [D?]devices." >=20 > C15. Section 4.1.1, pp3, Clarify terminology, what is meant by the > following phrase, "act as a LIS"? (taken from following statement: >=20 > "VPN devices that act as a LIS MAY acquire > their own location using HELD."=20 >=20 > Something that acts like a LIS is either (probably) really a LIS, or > something like a "LIS Proxy". Could be clearer.=20 > [MB] Here again, I would propose changing the "act as" to "serve as" > since the VPN is providing the functionality of a LIS. [/MB] [rm] I don't disagree. >=20 > C16. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., Change wording,=20 > Change from:=20 > "A LIS MUST NOT provide location information to a Device if it cannot > provide accurate information."=20 > Change from:=20 > "It is the general expectation that a LIS not provide location > information to a Device which is accurate information."=20 >=20 > Reason: There seems to be a recurring mismatch between the description > of what a protocol (HELD) interface is to a LIS - and that of the > requirements for a LIS itself throughout this section, misplaced for > what should be considered a black box to the interface. >=20 > [MB] I agree with your point, but not the proposed rewording. That > whole paragraph can be re-ordered/re-worded to more accurately relate > that 1st sentence to the specific scenario being described. : > OLD: >=20 > " A LIS MUST NOT provide location information to a Device if=20 > it cannot > provide accurate information. This applies where the Device uses a > VPN connection or is behind a NAT that serves a large=20 > geographic area > or multiple geographic locations (for example, a NAT used by an > enterprise to connect their private network to the Internet). The > LIS needs to be configured to recognize identifiers that represent > these conditions." >=20 > NEW:=20 > " In the cases where the Device uses a > VPN connection or is behind a NAT that serves a large=20 > geographic area > or multiple geographic locations (for example, a NAT used by an > enterprise to connect their private network to the=20 > Internet), the LIS > may not be=20 > able to return an accurate LI. If the LIS cannot determine an > accurate LI,=20 > it should not provide location information to the=20 > requesting device. > The LIS needs to be configured to recognize identifiers that > represent > these conditions." > [/MB] [rm] sorry - an error in my original wording as cited, should have read "...LIS provide..." rather than as was stated, "...LIS not provide...".) Bigger point here is that a HELD protocol specification can't hold a LISs feet to the fire to provide an accurate (as opposed to inaccurate) location information. >=20 >=20 > C17. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., General Comment, How can the original > statement be resolved in light of location hiding, which is a=20 > purposeful > attempt to make a location "inaccurate" (depending on how the term is > defined). > [MB] I don't think this document should address location hiding, but > your point about the "MUST NOT provide ..." is a valid=20 > concern per your > point C18 and my response to C16. > [/MB] >=20 > C18. General Comment - along the lines of comment C17: This draft > advertises itself as a protocol spec, not a set of LIS requirements. > The document needs to describe the in and the out of the HELD protocol > interface, and should not intermingle other requirements, assumptions, > and expectations of what a LIS (viewed as a black box) should do. >=20 > [MB] As discussed at the meeting (per the minutes), there are cases > where we have associated "musts" with discussion of how a LIS should > handle processing for this protocol. In addition to the one you > mention in C17, there is one in section 6.2, pp2., s2. I=20 > will scan the > document and reword any others I find. The only MUSTS we should be > applying to the LIS are specific to the protocol elements and=20 > security.=20 > [/MB] [rm] thanks. >=20 > ---=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this=20 > message may be > privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, > or responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, > any review, forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication or any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately, > and delete it and all attachments from your computer and network. >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 17:30:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2DcY-00080e-OE; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:30:34 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J2DcX-00080U-KI for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:30:33 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2DcX-00080L-9E; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:30:33 -0500 Received: from ns3.neustar.com ([156.154.24.138]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2DcW-0002an-Sy; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:30:33 -0500 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8180D175BF; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:30:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Dc2-00089B-1b; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:30:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:30:02 -0500 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Cc: geopriv@ietf.org Subject: [Geopriv] I-D Action:draft-ietf-geopriv-radius-lo-18.txt X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Geographic Location/Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : Carrying Location Objects in RADIUS and Diameter Author(s) : H. Tschofenig, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-geopriv-radius-lo-18.txt Pages : 63 Date : 2007-12-11 This document describes procedures for conveying access network ownership and location information based on a civic and geospatial location format in Remote Authentication Dial In User Service (RADIUS) and Diameter. The distribution of location information is a privacy sensitive task. Dealing with mechanisms to preserve the user's privacy is important and addressed in this document. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-radius-lo-18.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. 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Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-12-11172212.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-radius-lo-18.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-geopriv-radius-lo-18.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-12-11172212.I-D\@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv --NextPart-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 11 20:41:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Gbd-0005dH-FF; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:41:49 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Gbc-0005dB-Vi for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:41:48 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Gbc-0005cz-JO for geopriv@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:41:48 -0500 Received: from sea-mimesweep-1.telecomsys.com ([206.173.41.176]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Gbb-0000aa-Oi for geopriv@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:41:48 -0500 Received: from SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com (unverified [10.32.12.7]) by sea-mimesweep-1.telecomsys.com (Clearswift SMTPRS 5.2.9) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:41:46 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELDdraft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:41:42 -0800 Message-ID: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508C41B69@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> In-Reply-To: <7582BC68E4994F4ABF0BD4723975C3FA06ABBA64@crexc41p> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELDdraft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: Acg34G9pccmQPl+KSXSyyNehaKteBAAkGSIAAPBPh+AABIJIEA== References: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508BED70B@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> <7582BC68E4994F4ABF0BD4723975C3FA06ABBA64@crexc41p> From: "Roger Marshall" To: "Stark, Barbara" , "Mary Barnes" , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3a4bc66230659131057bb68ed51598f8 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Barbara: Device-to-LIS interoperation can take many forms. If a LIS provides a Device's location when queried (by an element) and interacts with the Device each time, then I agree there is no inherent offloading of work. If, on the other hand, a Device interacts with the LIS on a periodic basis which results in a location update, then in turn makes that location information available to any authorized requestor, then that does show a case whereby the LIS sheds some load from the Device. I don't think its necessary to introduce a Presence server into the above equation, though I admit that one might be used in a solution. A 'watcher' application might go through another level of indirection, such as a HTTP location app. server, as is the case for typical "Friend Finder" services, each of these have a Presence server component somewhere. The original objection was against the following terminology: > "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of > determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine > its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance."=20 While the above statement is true wrt increased efficiency of location determination, that is not the sole reason that a LIS exists. Even if all Devices *could* do self-location-determination, a LIS would still be valuable for the reasons, including the distribution of load due to the Device not being in a radio coverage area, not being powered up, or not being willing to accept a direct query. As to the idea that a LIS caches location, maybe it does or maybe it doesn't - probably depends on the type of LIS and caching (storing) has a range of values, from something transitory to something infinite. -roger marshall. =20 > the only way that the LIS could be used to alleviate load=20 > from the target device, is for the device to give out the=20 > (unsecured) location URI. Since we haven't defined a way for=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Stark, Barbara [mailto:bs7652@att.com]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:39 PM > To: Mary Barnes; Roger Marshall; geopriv@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELDdraft:=20 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de > livery-03 >=20 > Mary, > I agree with your replies to Roger's comments. You asked for=20 > feedback on the following: > --------- snipped text of Roger's comment C7 and Mary's=20 > response ------ C7. Section 3, pp1., s4. Change wording.=20 > Change from:=20 > "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of > determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine > its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance."=20 > Change to:=20 > "The LIS exists because not all Devices are capable of > determining LI, and because, even if a device is able to determine > its own LI, it may be more efficient with assistance, and=20 > finally, because it may be desired that external requests for=20 > a target location be cached in a LIS in order to alleviate=20 > load from the target device." >=20 > Reason: The reason given as to why a LIS exists needs to be=20 > expanded to cover the idea of "storing location".=20 >=20 > [MB] I would like more WG feedback on this. By definition,=20 > the LIS caches location information, but it was not my=20 > understanding that alleviating load on the target was a=20 > motivation. [/MB] --------------end snipped=20 > text------------------------------- >=20 > In the current HELD draft, we only have the source IP address=20 > as the identifier. Without extensions to support other IDs,=20 > the only way that the LIS could be used to alleviate load=20 > from the target device, is for the device to give out the=20 > (unsecured) location URI. Since we haven't defined a way for=20 > the LIS to be populated with security rules for who can=20 > dereference location, I think it would be a bad idea for us=20 > to encourage this use, or claim that it is desirable in some way. > Therefore, I don't agree with adding this function to the description. >=20 > To me, alleviating load from the target is more what I would=20 > expect from a Presence Server. There's nothing that would=20 > stop a server that has LIS functionality on it, from also=20 > being a SIP Presence server. Within the definition of=20 > Presence Server, we know how to do security and all sorts of=20 > URIs, including long-lasting ones, like SIP user IDs or IMS PUIDs. > Let's not change the definition of LIS to somehow also=20 > incorporate the definition of a presence server. > Barbara=20 >=20 > ***** >=20 > The information transmitted is intended only for the person=20 > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain=20 > confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any=20 > review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or=20 > taking of any action in reliance upon this information by=20 > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is=20 > prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the=20 > sender and delete the material from all computers. GA623 >=20 >=20 >=20 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be pr= ivileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or res= ponsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review,= forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication o= r any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this messa= ge in error, please notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all at= tachments from your computer and network. _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From DereksquillPayne@kerneltrap.org Tue Dec 11 21:06:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2GzP-0002MR-UQ for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:06:23 -0500 Received: from [200.95.226.51] (helo=0b9837cdb82448a.unimedia.net.mx) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2GzP-0008LH-8p for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:06:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host78878663.kerneltrap.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id Rs7ZmTCM31.366976.Qzk.8Ep.5174523976053 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:04:55 +0600 Message-ID: <75dd701c83c63$8b7a3510$5c530a0a@0b9837cdb82448a> From: "Tommy Willis" To: Subject: Hi Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:04:55 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_75DD3_01C83C63.8B7A3510" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_75DD3_01C83C63.8B7A3510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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(v2.01) Educational Reply-To: aipn@brahin.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <535891502.75110154379657@brahin.com> To: eap-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Re: Dung MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Do you need help in bed, this will help http://www.doreone.com are unregulated and "secret language" and organized including registration of corporation, the embarrassment of thinking of me that From juston835@goldenbatch.com Thu Dec 13 02:37:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2idn-0005Ir-86 for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:37:55 -0500 Received: from sprint-net-6-109.sprint-v.com.ru ([81.22.6.109]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2idm-0002rA-Dl for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:37:55 -0500 Received: from vlz-dom ([152.130.168.175] helo=vlz-dom) by sprint-net-6-109.sprint-v.com.ru ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1WEnhx-000OUR-Kf for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; 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Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:59:18 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:59:02 +0100 From: "Aaro Marallo" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: 3874494 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Hello geopriv-archive Gaining PE length and thickness http://shapebaby.com Aaro Marallo From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 13 12:05:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2rUr-0007y1-OQ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:05:17 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J2rUr-0007vj-2Y for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:05:17 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2rUq-0007t1-NY for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:05:16 -0500 Received: from andrew.triumf.ca ([142.90.106.59]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2rUp-0001de-1g for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:05:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by andrew.triumf.ca (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBDH5E2h022407 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:05:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:05:14 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Daviel X-X-Sender: andrew@andrew.triumf.ca To: geopriv@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Subject: [Geopriv] FYI: UWB indoor positioning X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org FYI >From an online New Scientist article: http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/mg19626345.800-indoor-satnav-could-save-firefighters.html http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKL1263470020071212 http://www.thalesresearch.com/Default.aspx?tabid=477 using ultrawideband radio to provide positioning information indoors; the lead article describes an integrated application where firefighters deploy a temporary system calibrated against GPS receivers in fire trucks outside "the firm has one eye on the consumer market. It is working on an IPS for GPS-enabled cellphones that will let users extend their navigation indoors ... But since that would mean persuading mall and airport operators to fix IPS transceivers in their buildings, too, it's some way off..." -- Andrew Daviel, TRIUMF, Canada Tel. +1 (604) 222-7376 (Pacific Time) Network Security Manager _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From KathleenpostmasterWang@thenation.com Thu Dec 13 13:37:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2sw7-000422-ER for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:37:31 -0500 Received: from [190.40.236.175] (helo=reservas) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2sw6-0004sQ-R1 for geopriv-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:37:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host54944010.thenation.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id inQaBD8E04.980685.paX.JRi.4212840176754 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:36:54 +0500 Message-ID: <86b101c83db7$394ee380$1e01a8c0@reservas> From: "Debra Galvan" To: Subject: Hi Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:36:54 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_86AD_01C83DB7.394EE380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_86AD_01C83DB7.394EE380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price Learn More Now 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed = up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_86AD_01C83DB7.394EE380-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 13 16:17:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2vR5-0005bv-Po; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:17:39 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J2vR4-0005VM-Ru for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:17:38 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2vR4-0005TV-Bb for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:17:38 -0500 Received: from zrtps0kn.nortel.com ([47.140.192.55]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2vR2-0002Hn-JK for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:17:38 -0500 Received: from zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com (zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com [47.103.123.72]) by zrtps0kn.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id lBDLHXh23335; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:17:33 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:14:58 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508C419F6@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: Acg34G9pccmQPl+KSXSyyNehaKteBAAkGSIAAO+ykbAAZiW8MA== References: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508BED70B@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508C419F6@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> From: "Mary Barnes" To: "Roger Marshall" , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d38eb86565b1a4d8c3dba35af39014d Cc: "Thomson, Martin" X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Hi Roger, Thanks for the follow-up. Responses embedded below with [MB2]. And, I'm also bringing in some of Martin's suggestions. And, I've snipped out the ones for which we have agreement. Mary. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Marshall [mailto:RMarshall@telecomsys.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 3:58 PM To: Barnes, Mary (RICH2:AR00); geopriv@ietf.org Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Mary: Thanks for combing through these comments. I've included responses in-line, denoted by "[rm]". Some of these may be cross-linked to my counter-comments back to Martin Thompson's prior email, which I just replied to. -roger marshall. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mary.barnes@nortel.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:31 AM > To: Roger Marshall; geopriv@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft:=20 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de livery-03 >=20 > Hi Roger, > =20 > Thanks for your review and comments. My responses are embedded below=20 > [MB]. Also, note that I'm not using CAPs for things like "may" and=20 > "should" in most of the responses, since they are recommendations for=20 > device and LIS behaviors, and are not describing normative protocol=20 > functionality. > This is another general change that needs to be made to the document.=20 >=20 > Note, I have not reviewed Martin's responses yet, so we'll resolve any > differences in a separate email. >=20 > Mary.=20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > From: Roger Marshall [mailto:RMarshall@telecomsys.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:17 AM > To: geopriv@ietf.org > Subject: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de livery-03 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Comments regarding the draft, > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de livery-03 > > . =20 >=20 > Note: This is a partial review, for the first half of the document -=20 > throught section 4 only. Additionally, most of the comments suggest=20 > minor, (yet IMO important), rewording changes - except, maybe for the=20 > last two, C17, C18 - which lead to bigger issues. >=20 > -roger marshall.=20 >=20 > ---- >=20 > C1. Abstract, Clarify text, > Change from:=20 > "...The protocol includes options for retrieving > location information either by-value or by-reference."=20 > Change to:=20 > "...The protocol includes options for acquiring > location information to an end device, either by-value or=20 > by-reference (or both)." >=20 > Reason: It could be misread to suggest that it may be possible to=20 > retrieve location "by-value" through some dereference step, instead of > receiving location in a "by value" form as part of a Configuration=20 > Protocol. >=20 > [MB] I'm not clear on your specific reason, but I agree that it does=20 > need to include that both can be acquired by a device. I would suggest > something like: > "The protocol allows a device to acquire the location information in=20 > two > forms: by-value and by-reference." > [/MB] [rm] Close to what I was trying to get at. How about, "...The protocol includes options for a Device to acquire location information either by-value or by-reference form (or both)." (My objection to the original wording was because with the use of "retrieve", the original text seemed more indicative of a Dereference Protocol than of a Configuration Protocol.) [MB2] I think the "acquire" is fine, since it is used elsewhere in the document (contrary to Martin's concern). I think the "and" is adequate and we don't need to add the "both" in the abstract, since the "both" aspect is addressed in the introduction. [/MB2] >=20 > C2. Introduction, Clarify text, > Change from:=20 > "...mobile networks and wireless access networks."=20 > Change to:=20 > "...mobile networks."=20 >=20 > Reason: Both mobile networks and wireless access networks share common > characteristics. Is there a clear deliniation between the two? Maybe > we could just say "mobile networks". >=20 > [MB] "mobile networks" is not general enough. In my experience,=20 > "mobile networks" refers to the cellular networks that we all use for=20 > our cell phones and includes more than just the access network. > Wikipedia agrees > with me as it brings up "Cellular networks" when you search for mobile > network. I consider wireless access networks to be a more general=20 > term that encompasses wireless lan and WIMAX. If we want the most=20 > general term, then we could replace both the terms with "wireless=20 > networks". > [/MB] [rm] The fact is that both terms "mobile" and "wireless" have context baggage associated with them. I don't think that "wireless" is more general than the term "mobile" in its most fundamental sense. For example, you might be on a ship, plane, train, or spaceship using either a wired or wireless first link connection. For location purposes an external viewer sees your position as mobile - inside the craft, the location/position may be static, but is also relative. Wireless can be easily divide into two technologies relevant for this discussion, Wireless/CS, and Wireless/PS. Neither of these terms helps to clarify. To some, it may seem like a trivial difference, but it sets the foundation for future discussions. I think the right term to use is "mobile". [MB2] As a compromise, I propose that we go with Martin's suggestion (with a slight modification expanding on the examples for wireless) here then OR we just use both and say "wireless mobile" or "mobile wireless". I did a search and found that the combination is quite common.=20 "... scenarios in which the Device might rely on its access network to provide location information. The LIS service applies to access networks employing both wired technology (e.g. DSL, Cable) and wireless technology (e.g. WiMAX, wireless LAN, cellular) with varying degrees of Device mobility ." [/MB2] >=20 > C3. Intro, pp2., s1. Change wording, change from: > "...two methods for acquiring LI."=20 > change to: =20 > "...two methods for receiving the acquired LI."=20 >=20 > Reason: Problem here is that HELD (in this draft) shouldn't equate an=20 > LI to a location URI (see comment C9, below) - wording needs to be=20 > clearer. >=20 > [MB] That sentence doesn't equate the two types of location=20 > information and the next two sentences distinctly state how they are=20 > different. Both types are received (from a protocol perspective) in=20 > the same manner through a Location Response. To be more specific, we=20 > should perhaps reword that sentence as follows: > OLD: > This specification identifies two methods for acquiring LI. > NEW: > This specification identifies two types of location information that > may be acquired. > [/MB] [rm] ah, the real question here is what does an "LI" blob, (i.e., Location Information), equate to. Is an LI to be viewed one in the same as a well-formed PIDF-LO? [yes], or a location URI? [no]! [MB2] Okay - I see your point, but I still don't think your proposed sentence isn't accurate either, since the method for receiving the LI is the same (i.e., the method is a Location response which can contain multiple values and types for/of location information). I'd propose then to change that sentence to the following to include your suggestion to change the verb from "acquire" to "receive": "This specification identifies two types of location information that may be received from the LIS." [/MB2] >=20 > C5. Section 3, Overview and Scope, pp1., s2., Change wording Change=20 > from: > "The LIS is present within the same administrative domain as the=20 > Device (the access network). > Change to:=20 > "For this document, we make the assumption that the LIS is present=20 > within the same administrative domain as the Device (the access=20 > network)." >=20 > Reason: Same domain assumption needs spelled out, since it is possible > for LIS elements to exist in core network domains also. >=20 > [MB] Okay. I'll just suggest some slightly different wording: > "This document assumes that the LIS is present within the same=20 > administrative domain as the Device (the access network)." > [/MB] [rm] New suggestion is to make the wording not so exclusive sounding, change "(the access network)" to "(e.g., the access network)". [MB2] Okay. [/MB2] >=20 > C6. Section 3, pp1., s3. Change wording.=20 > Change from:=20 > "An Access Provider (AP) operates the LIS so that Devices (and=20 > Targets) can > retrieve LI."=20 > Change to:=20 > "For this document, it is assumed that an Access Provider > (AP) operates > the LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can > retrieve LI."=20 >=20 > Reason: same "state the assumption" comment needed as above.=20 > [MB] It's not clear to me which part of the sentence to which you want > this assumption applied. I don't think we need to re-iterate the=20 > assumption about the LIS being in the access network since we just=20 > said that in the previous sentence. And, I don't think we're assuming=20 > that the LIS is there, so that the device can acquire LI. But, if=20 > others agree that this is necessary, I'll add the text. > [/MB] [rm] This is ok as stands, if the prior change in C5 is taken into account. [MB2] Yep. [/MB2] > =20 >=20 > C9. Section 4, pp1., s1., Clarify wording, Change from: > "The HELD protocol facilitates retrieval of LI either by-value, as a=20 > PIDF-LO document, or by-reference..." > Change to:=20 > "The HELD protocol facilitates the acquisition to the device, either=20 > of an LI directly via by-value, as a PIDF-LO document, or that of=20 > acquiring LI indirectly, via by-reference..." >=20 > Reason: Here, the "LI" term seems to be equated to either an LbyV LO=20 > or an LbyR location URI, whereas in the text following, (Section 4,=20 > pp3., s3.), it equates the LI to the object that a Location URI points > to (LI should not be equated to a location URI, but to the LI which=20 > the location URI points to), >=20 > "A Location URI is a URI [21 > #ref-21> ] of any scheme, which a Location Recipient (LR) can use to=20 > retrieve LI." >=20 > [MB] I see your point. I also think this isn't the only place that=20 > this slight mis-statement exists, so I will make a note to look for=20 > others. > I would prefer something along the lines in terms of clarification: > "The HELD protocol facilitates retrieval of location directly in the > form of a PIDF-LO document > (by-value) and indirectly as a Location URI (by-reference)."=20 > [/MB] [rm] or... of *both*. [MB2] I think the "and" takes care of the *both*. The *both* doesn't add clarity and indeed can be confusing, since it implies you can only get two Locations in a response. However, you can receive multiple Locations URIs and types of location in the multiple forms. [/MB2] >=20 > C10. Section 4.1, pp2., s1., Change wording for completeness, Change=20 > from: > "This is not always the case."=20 > Change to:=20 > "Though this may occur, this is not always the case."=20 >=20 > Reason: This makes the wording flow together, rather than sounding=20 > like two differing opinions from the same author. > [MB] I would take this one step further and change that sentence to=20 > the following, since it's not totally obvious what "this" refers to: > "All cases of NATs do not introduce inaccuracies in the returned=20 > location. For example, ..." > [/MB] [rm] I'm ok with the clarification here and/or from Martin Thompson's (separate email) suggested text. [MB2] Unless Martin has a concern over the text I proposed, I'll make that change. His text provides more detail, but it doesn't seem necessary to make the statement that the LIS may return LI, since that's basic, expected functionality. [/MB2] >=20 > C11. Section 4.1, pp2., s2., Clarify the following text to make the=20 > topology more understandable, >=20 > "For example, a NAT used in a > residential Local Area Network (LAN) is typically not a problem. =20 > The > external IP address used on the Wide Area Network (WAN) side of the > NAT is an acceptable identifier for all of the devices in the > residence since the covered geographical area is small.=20 >=20 > Reason: It's not clear whether the intention is to differentiate=20 > between two separate topologies, one with a LAN and the other with a=20 > WAN, or only one topology that is a hybrid including both a LAN and a=20 > WAN portion. >=20 > [MB] This is a single topology. Perhaps, we can clarify that second=20 > sentence as follows: > "The external IP address used on the Wide Area Network > (WAN) side of > the > NAT is an acceptable identifier for all of the devices in the > residence, on the LAN side of the NAT, since the covered=20 > geographical area is small." > [/MB] [rm] better than it was. [MB2] The other alternative is to change WAN to Martin's suggestion of "Internet", but my preference is the above. [/MB2] >=20 >=20 > C12. Section 4.1, pp3., Clarify wording (2x).=20 > Change from: "address"=20 > Change to: "IP address"=20 > [MB] Ok. [/MB] >=20 > C13. Section 4.1.1, pp1., Change wording.=20 > Change from:=20 > "To minimize the impact of VPNs, Devices..."=20 > Change to:=20 > "To minimize the potential negating impact of VPNs, devices..."=20 > [MB] I don't see how the "potential negating" really adds a whole lot=20 > of clarity to that statement. I would propose something like: > "In VPN scenarios, Devices should perform their HELD query, prior to=20 > establishing a VPN tunnel, to ensure the accuracy of the location=20 > information." > [/MB] [rm] sorry - meant "potentially negating...". Implication here is that VPNs do something (i.e., they impact), but it is not mentioned that they are likely to be detrimental to the location configuration process. Your rewording captures the important aspect of the "freshness" of location, but doesn't address the negative impact of doing another location configuration step *after* a VPN is established, thereby getting a *bogus* location. [MB2] So, if we want to be explicit about the inverse (which isn't a bad idea in general with "shoulds"), let's add the following after that sentence: "If a Device performs the HELD query after establishing the VPN tunnel, the Device may receive inaccurate location information."=20 [/MB2] >=20 > C14. Section 4.1.1, pp2., Change wording, Change from: > "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices > inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a HELD LIS for=20 > those > other devices."=20 > Change to:=20 > "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices > inside a LAN or other closed network may act as a LIS Proxy that=20 > implements the HELD protocol for those > other devices."=20 >=20 > Reason: It is not clear what a "HELD LIS" is. The implication here is > that of a proxy to get location on-behalf-of another device - which=20 > implies a LIS-to-LIS protocol (not mentioned). >=20 > [MB] I agree we shouldn't be qualifying the term LIS with HELD, but I=20 > don't think we want to introduce the term "LIS proxy" either. > How about > something like the following: > "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices > inside a LAN or other closed network may serve as a LIS for those > other devices."=20 > [/MB] [rm] Simply suggest striking the term "Proxy" from my original suggestion, therefore the sentence would read, "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a LIS that implements the HELD protocol for those other [D?]devices." [MB2] Okay, except the "MAY" will be "may" and yes, "devices" will be "Devices" to be consistent with the rest of the document format. [/MB2] >=20 > C16. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., Change wording, Change from: > "A LIS MUST NOT provide location information to a Device if it cannot > provide accurate information."=20 > Change from:=20 > "It is the general expectation that a LIS not provide location=20 > information to a Device which is accurate information." >=20 > Reason: There seems to be a recurring mismatch between the description > of what a protocol (HELD) interface is to a LIS - and that of the=20 > requirements for a LIS itself throughout this section, misplaced for=20 > what should be considered a black box to the interface. >=20 > [MB] I agree with your point, but not the proposed rewording. That=20 > whole paragraph can be re-ordered/re-worded to more accurately relate=20 > that 1st sentence to the specific scenario being described. : > OLD: >=20 > " A LIS MUST NOT provide location information to a Device if it=20 > cannot > provide accurate information. This applies where the Device uses a > VPN connection or is behind a NAT that serves a large geographic=20 > area > or multiple geographic locations (for example, a NAT used by an > enterprise to connect their private network to the Internet). The > LIS needs to be configured to recognize identifiers that represent > these conditions." >=20 > NEW:=20 > " In the cases where the Device uses a > VPN connection or is behind a NAT that serves a large geographic=20 > area > or multiple geographic locations (for example, a NAT used by an > enterprise to connect their private network to the Internet), the=20 > LIS may not be > able to return an accurate LI. If the LIS cannot determine an=20 > accurate LI, > it should not provide location information to the requesting=20 > device. > The LIS needs to be configured to recognize identifiers that=20 > represent > these conditions." > [/MB] [rm] sorry - an error in my original wording as cited, should have read "...LIS provide..." rather than as was stated, "...LIS not provide...".) Bigger point here is that a HELD protocol specification can't hold a LISs feet to the fire to provide an accurate (as opposed to inaccurate) location information. [MB2] Correct. As was discussed at the meeting and captured in the minutes, we can't make normative statements about the LIS. [/MB2] _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 13 16:51:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2vy5-00043B-7u; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:51:45 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J2vy3-000436-Uk for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:51:43 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2vy3-00042y-Ko for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:51:43 -0500 Received: from smtp3.andrew.com ([198.135.207.235] helo=andrew.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2vy1-0002xk-9m for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:51:43 -0500 X-SEF-Processed: 5_0_0_910__2007_12_13_16_02_48 X-SEF-16EBA1E9-99E8-4E1D-A1CA-4971F5510AF: 1 Received: from aopexbh2.andrew.com [10.86.20.25] by smtp3.andrew.com - SurfControl E-mail Filter (5.2.1); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:02:48 -0600 Received: from AHQEX1.andrew.com ([10.86.20.21]) by aopexbh2.andrew.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:51:40 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:51:38 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: Acg34G9pccmQPl+KSXSyyNehaKteBAAkGSIAAO+ykbAAZiW8MAAB9Faw References: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508BED70B@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508C419F6@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> From: "Thomson, Martin" To: "Mary Barnes" , "Roger Marshall" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2007 21:51:40.0805 (UTC) FILETIME=[57F35350:01C83DD2] X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fca7d4b87f391aa4d413f865ce6efe79 Cc: X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1527639083==" Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org --===============1527639083== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhhbmtzIGZvciBzb3J0aW5nIHRoZXNlIG91dCBNYXJ5LiAgSSBkb24ndCBoYXZlIGFueSBtYWpv ciBjb25jZXJucy4NCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBNYXJ5 IEJhcm5lcyBbbWFpbHRvOm1hcnkuYmFybmVzQG5vcnRlbC5jb21dDQo+IFNlbnQ6IEZyaWRheSwg MTQgRGVjZW1iZXIgMjAwNyA4OjE1IEFNDQo+IFRvOiBSb2dlciBNYXJzaGFsbDsgZ2VvcHJpdkBp ZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBDYzogVGhvbXNvbiwgTWFydGluDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBbR2VvUHJpdl06 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dXRob3JpemVkIHVzZSBvZg0KdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBpcyBwcm9oaWJpdGVkLg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpbbWYyXQ0K --===============1527639083== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv --===============1527639083==-- From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 13 17:07:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2wDA-0005Iq-Lw; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:07:20 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J2wD9-0005HC-7d for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:07:19 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2wD8-0005ET-Sg for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:07:18 -0500 Received: from sea-mimesweep-1.telecomsys.com ([206.173.41.176]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2wD6-0003Mq-HT for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:07:18 -0500 Received: from SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com (unverified [10.32.12.7]) by sea-mimesweep-1.telecomsys.com (Clearswift SMTPRS 5.2.9) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:07:15 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:07:13 -0800 Message-ID: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508CB5661@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-delivery-03 Thread-Index: Acg34G9pccmQPl+KSXSyyNehaKteBAAkGSIAAO+ykbAAZiW8MAAB1kmg References: <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508BED70B@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> <8C837214C95C864C9F34F3635C2A657508C419F6@SEA-EXCHVS-2.telecomsys.com> From: "Roger Marshall" To: "Mary Barnes" , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 94ddbad0060c343c23e74ba9bbebbccf Cc: "Thomson, Martin" X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Mary: I'm okay with all the comments/suggestions cited, as indicated by [rm2] responses in-line. Thanks very much. -roger marshall. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mary.barnes@nortel.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:15 PM > To: Roger Marshall; geopriv@ietf.org > Cc: Thomson, Martin > Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft:=20 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de livery-03 >=20 > Hi Roger, >=20 > Thanks for the follow-up. Responses embedded below with=20 > [MB2]. And, I'm also bringing in some of Martin's=20 > suggestions. And, I've snipped out the ones for which we have=20 > agreement. >=20 > Mary. >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Marshall [mailto:RMarshall@telecomsys.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 3:58 PM > To: Barnes, Mary (RICH2:AR00); geopriv@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de livery-03 >=20 > Mary: > Thanks for combing through these comments. I've included=20 > responses in-line, denoted by "[rm]". Some of these may be=20 > cross-linked to my counter-comments back to Martin Thompson's=20 > prior email, which I just replied to. >=20 > -roger marshall. >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mary.barnes@nortel.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:31 AM > > To: Roger Marshall; geopriv@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft:=20 > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de > livery-03 > >=20 > > Hi Roger, > > =20 > > Thanks for your review and comments. My responses are=20 > embedded below=20 > > [MB]. Also, note that I'm not using CAPs for things like "may" and=20 > > "should" in most of the responses, since they are=20 > recommendations for=20 > > device and LIS behaviors, and are not describing normative protocol=20 > > functionality. > > This is another general change that needs to be made to the=20 > document.=20 > >=20 > > Note, I have not reviewed Martin's responses yet, so we'll=20 > resolve any >=20 > > differences in a separate email. > >=20 > > Mary.=20 > >=20 > > ________________________________ > >=20 > > From: Roger Marshall [mailto:RMarshall@telecomsys.com] > > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:17 AM > > To: geopriv@ietf.org > > Subject: [GeoPriv]: Review comments on HELD draft: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de > livery-03 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Comments regarding the draft, > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-geopriv-http-location-de > livery-03 > > elivery-03 > > > . =20 > >=20 > > Note: This is a partial review, for the first half of the=20 > document -=20 > > throught section 4 only. Additionally, most of the=20 > comments suggest=20 > > minor, (yet IMO important), rewording changes - except,=20 > maybe for the=20 > > last two, C17, C18 - which lead to bigger issues. > >=20 > > -roger marshall.=20 > >=20 > > ---- > >=20 > > C1. Abstract, Clarify text, > > Change from:=20 > > "...The protocol includes options for retrieving > > location information either by-value or by-reference."=20 > > Change to:=20 > > "...The protocol includes options for acquiring > > location information to an end device, either by-value or=20 > > by-reference (or both)." > >=20 > > Reason: It could be misread to suggest that it may be possible to=20 > > retrieve location "by-value" through some dereference step,=20 > instead of >=20 > > receiving location in a "by value" form as part of a Configuration=20 > > Protocol. > >=20 > > [MB] I'm not clear on your specific reason, but I agree=20 > that it does=20 > > need to include that both can be acquired by a device. I=20 > would suggest >=20 > > something like: > > "The protocol allows a device to acquire the location=20 > information in=20 > > two > > forms: by-value and by-reference." > > [/MB] >=20 > [rm] Close to what I was trying to get at. How about,=20 > "...The protocol includes options for a Device to acquire=20 > location information either by-value or by-reference form (or=20 > both)." (My objection to the original wording was because=20 > with the use of "retrieve", the original text seemed more=20 > indicative of a Dereference Protocol than of a Configuration > Protocol.) > [MB2] I think the "acquire" is fine, since it is used=20 > elsewhere in the document (contrary to Martin's concern). I=20 > think the "and" is adequate and we don't need to add the=20 > "both" in the abstract, since the "both" > aspect is addressed in the introduction. [/MB2] [rm2] agreed. >=20 > >=20 > > C2. Introduction, Clarify text, > > Change from:=20 > > "...mobile networks and wireless access networks."=20 > > Change to:=20 > > "...mobile networks."=20 > >=20 > > Reason: Both mobile networks and wireless access networks=20 > share common >=20 > > characteristics. Is there a clear deliniation between the=20 > two? Maybe >=20 > > we could just say "mobile networks". > >=20 > > [MB] "mobile networks" is not general enough. In my experience,=20 > > "mobile networks" refers to the cellular networks that we=20 > all use for=20 > > our cell phones and includes more than just the access network. > > Wikipedia agrees > > with me as it brings up "Cellular networks" when you search=20 > for mobile >=20 > > network. I consider wireless access networks to be a more general=20 > > term that encompasses wireless lan and WIMAX. If we want the most=20 > > general term, then we could replace both the terms with "wireless=20 > > networks". > > [/MB] >=20 > [rm] The fact is that both terms "mobile" and "wireless" have=20 > context baggage associated with them. I don't think that=20 > "wireless" is more general than the term "mobile" in its most=20 > fundamental sense. For example, you might be on a ship,=20 > plane, train, or spaceship using either a wired or wireless=20 > first link connection. For location purposes an external=20 > viewer sees your position as mobile - inside the craft, the=20 > location/position may be static, but is also relative. =20 > Wireless can be easily divide into two technologies relevant=20 > for this discussion, Wireless/CS, and Wireless/PS. Neither=20 > of these terms helps to clarify. > To some, it may seem like a trivial difference, but it sets=20 > the foundation for future discussions. I think the right=20 > term to use is "mobile". >=20 > [MB2] As a compromise, I propose that we go with Martin's=20 > suggestion (with a slight modification expanding on the=20 > examples for wireless) here then OR we just use both and say=20 > "wireless mobile" or "mobile wireless". > I did a search and found that the combination is quite common.=20 > "... scenarios in which the Device might rely on its access=20 > network to provide location information. The LIS service=20 > applies to access networks employing both wired technology=20 > (e.g. DSL, Cable) and wireless technology (e.g. WiMAX,=20 > wireless LAN, cellular) with varying degrees of Device mobility ." > [/MB2] [rm2] agree to go with Martin's suggestion. >=20 > >=20 > > C3. Intro, pp2., s1. Change wording, change from: > > "...two methods for acquiring LI."=20 > > change to: =20 > > "...two methods for receiving the acquired LI."=20 > >=20 > > Reason: Problem here is that HELD (in this draft) shouldn't=20 > equate an=20 > > LI to a location URI (see comment C9, below) - wording needs to be=20 > > clearer. > >=20 > > [MB] That sentence doesn't equate the two types of location=20 > > information and the next two sentences distinctly state how=20 > they are=20 > > different. Both types are received (from a protocol perspective) in=20 > > the same manner through a Location Response. To be more=20 > specific, we=20 > > should perhaps reword that sentence as follows: > > OLD: > > This specification identifies two methods for acquiring LI. > > NEW: > > This specification identifies two types of location=20 > information that >=20 > > may be acquired. > > [/MB] >=20 > [rm] ah, the real question here is what does an "LI" blob,=20 > (i.e., Location Information), equate to. Is an LI to be=20 > viewed one in the same as a well-formed PIDF-LO? [yes], or a=20 > location URI? [no]! >=20 > [MB2] Okay - I see your point, but I still don't think your=20 > proposed sentence isn't accurate either, since the method for=20 > receiving the LI is the same (i.e., the method is a Location=20 > response which can contain multiple values and types for/of=20 > location information). I'd propose then to change that=20 > sentence to the following to include your suggestion to=20 > change the verb from "acquire" to "receive": > "This specification identifies two types of location=20 > information that may be received from the LIS." > [/MB2] [rm2] agreed. >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > C5. Section 3, Overview and Scope, pp1., s2., Change wording Change > > from: > > "The LIS is present within the same administrative domain as the=20 > > Device (the access network). > > Change to:=20 > > "For this document, we make the assumption that the LIS is present=20 > > within the same administrative domain as the Device (the access=20 > > network)." > >=20 > > Reason: Same domain assumption needs spelled out, since it=20 > is possible >=20 > > for LIS elements to exist in core network domains also. > >=20 > > [MB] Okay. I'll just suggest some slightly different wording: > > "This document assumes that the LIS is present within the same=20 > > administrative domain as the Device (the access network)." > > [/MB] >=20 > [rm] New suggestion is to make the wording not so exclusive=20 > sounding, change "(the access network)" to "(e.g., the access=20 > network)". >=20 > [MB2] Okay. [/MB2] >=20 > >=20 > > C6. Section 3, pp1., s3. Change wording.=20 > > Change from:=20 > > "An Access Provider (AP) operates the LIS so that Devices (and > > Targets) can > > retrieve LI."=20 > > Change to:=20 > > "For this document, it is assumed that an Access Provider > > (AP) operates > > the LIS so that Devices (and Targets) can > > retrieve LI."=20 > >=20 > > Reason: same "state the assumption" comment needed as above.=20 > > [MB] It's not clear to me which part of the sentence to=20 > which you want >=20 > > this assumption applied. I don't think we need to re-iterate the=20 > > assumption about the LIS being in the access network since we just=20 > > said that in the previous sentence. And, I don't think=20 > we're assuming=20 > > that the LIS is there, so that the device can acquire LI. But, if=20 > > others agree that this is necessary, I'll add the text. > > [/MB] >=20 > [rm] This is ok as stands, if the prior change in C5 is taken=20 > into account. >=20 > [MB2] Yep. [/MB2] >=20 >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > C9. Section 4, pp1., s1., Clarify wording, Change from: > > "The HELD protocol facilitates retrieval of LI either=20 > by-value, as a=20 > > PIDF-LO document, or by-reference..." > > Change to:=20 > > "The HELD protocol facilitates the acquisition to the=20 > device, either=20 > > of an LI directly via by-value, as a PIDF-LO document, or that of=20 > > acquiring LI indirectly, via by-reference..." > >=20 > > Reason: Here, the "LI" term seems to be equated to either=20 > an LbyV LO=20 > > or an LbyR location URI, whereas in the text following, (Section 4,=20 > > pp3., s3.), it equates the LI to the object that a Location=20 > URI points >=20 > > to (LI should not be equated to a location URI, but to the LI which=20 > > the location URI points to), > >=20 > > "A Location URI is a URI [21 > > elivery-03 > > #ref-21> ] of any scheme, which a Location Recipient (LR)=20 > can use to=20 > > retrieve LI." > >=20 > > [MB] I see your point. I also think this isn't the only place that=20 > > this slight mis-statement exists, so I will make a note to look for=20 > > others. > > I would prefer something along the lines in terms of clarification: > > "The HELD protocol facilitates retrieval of location=20 > directly in the >=20 > > form of a PIDF-LO document > > (by-value) and indirectly as a Location URI (by-reference)."=20 > > [/MB] >=20 > [rm] or... of *both*. >=20 > [MB2] I think the "and" takes care of the *both*. The *both*=20 > doesn't add clarity and indeed can be confusing, since it=20 > implies you can only get two Locations in a response.=20 > However, you can receive multiple Locations URIs and types of=20 > location in the multiple forms. [/MB2] [rm2] agree to leaving out the term "both". >=20 > >=20 > > C10. Section 4.1, pp2., s1., Change wording for completeness, Change > > from: > > "This is not always the case."=20 > > Change to:=20 > > "Though this may occur, this is not always the case."=20 > >=20 > > Reason: This makes the wording flow together, rather than sounding=20 > > like two differing opinions from the same author. > > [MB] I would take this one step further and change that sentence to=20 > > the following, since it's not totally obvious what "this" refers to: > > "All cases of NATs do not introduce inaccuracies in the returned=20 > > location. For example, ..." > > [/MB] >=20 > [rm] I'm ok with the clarification here and/or from Martin=20 > Thompson's (separate email) suggested text. >=20 > [MB2] Unless Martin has a concern over the text I proposed,=20 > I'll make that change. His text provides more detail, but it=20 > doesn't seem necessary to make the statement that the LIS may=20 > return LI, since that's basic, expected functionality. [/MB2] [rm2] no contest here. > >=20 > > C11. Section 4.1, pp2., s2., Clarify the following text to make the=20 > > topology more understandable, > >=20 > > "For example, a NAT used in a > > residential Local Area Network (LAN) is typically not a=20 > problem. =20 > > The > > external IP address used on the Wide Area Network (WAN)=20 > side of the > > NAT is an acceptable identifier for all of the devices in the > > residence since the covered geographical area is small.=20 > >=20 > > Reason: It's not clear whether the intention is to differentiate=20 > > between two separate topologies, one with a LAN and the=20 > other with a=20 > > WAN, or only one topology that is a hybrid including both a=20 > LAN and a=20 > > WAN portion. > >=20 > > [MB] This is a single topology. Perhaps, we can clarify=20 > that second=20 > > sentence as follows: > > "The external IP address used on the Wide Area Network > > (WAN) side of > > the > > NAT is an acceptable identifier for all of the devices in the > > residence, on the LAN side of the NAT, since the covered=20 > > geographical area is small." > > [/MB] >=20 > [rm] better than it was. >=20 > [MB2] The other alternative is to change WAN to Martin's=20 > suggestion of "Internet", but my preference is the above. [/MB2] [rm2] I'm ok with either combination. >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > C12. Section 4.1, pp3., Clarify wording (2x).=20 > > Change from: "address"=20 > > Change to: "IP address"=20 > > [MB] Ok. [/MB] > >=20 > > C13. Section 4.1.1, pp1., Change wording.=20 > > Change from:=20 > > "To minimize the impact of VPNs, Devices..."=20 > > Change to:=20 > > "To minimize the potential negating impact of VPNs, devices..."=20 > > [MB] I don't see how the "potential negating" really adds a=20 > whole lot=20 > > of clarity to that statement. I would propose something like: > > "In VPN scenarios, Devices should perform their HELD =20 > query, prior to=20 > > establishing a VPN tunnel, to ensure the accuracy of the location=20 > > information." > > [/MB] >=20 > [rm] sorry - meant "potentially negating...". Implication=20 > here is that VPNs do something (i.e., they impact), but it is=20 > not mentioned that they are likely to be detrimental to the=20 > location configuration process. > Your rewording captures the important aspect of the=20 > "freshness" of location, but doesn't address the negative=20 > impact of doing another location configuration step *after* a=20 > VPN is established, thereby getting a *bogus* location. >=20 > [MB2] So, if we want to be explicit about the inverse (which=20 > isn't a bad idea in general with "shoulds"), let's add the=20 > following after that > sentence: > "If a Device performs the HELD query after establishing the=20 > VPN tunnel, the Device may receive inaccurate location information."=20 > [/MB2] [rm2] yes! I agree. >=20 > >=20 > > C14. Section 4.1.1, pp2., Change wording, Change from: > > "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices > > inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a HELD LIS for=20 > > those > > other devices."=20 > > Change to:=20 > > "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices > > inside a LAN or other closed network may act as a LIS Proxy that=20 > > implements the HELD protocol for those > > other devices."=20 > >=20 > > Reason: It is not clear what a "HELD LIS" is. The=20 > implication here is >=20 > > that of a proxy to get location on-behalf-of another device - which=20 > > implies a LIS-to-LIS protocol (not mentioned). > >=20 > > [MB] I agree we shouldn't be qualifying the term LIS with=20 > HELD, but I=20 > > don't think we want to introduce the term "LIS proxy" either. > > How about > > something like the following: > > "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other devices > > inside a LAN or other closed network may serve as a LIS for those > > other devices."=20 > > [/MB] >=20 > [rm] Simply suggest striking the term "Proxy" from my=20 > original suggestion, therefore the sentence would read,=20 > "Devices that establish VPN connections for use by other=20 > devices inside a LAN or other closed network MAY act as a LIS=20 > that implements the HELD protocol for those other [D?]devices." >=20 > [MB2] Okay, except the "MAY" will be "may" and yes, "devices"=20 > will be "Devices" to be consistent with the rest of the=20 > document format. [/MB2] [rm2] okay. >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > C16. Section 4.1.2, pp1., s1., Change wording, Change from: > > "A LIS MUST NOT provide location information to a Device if=20 > it cannot > > provide accurate information."=20 > > Change from:=20 > > "It is the general expectation that a LIS not provide location=20 > > information to a Device which is accurate information." > >=20 > > Reason: There seems to be a recurring mismatch between the=20 > description >=20 > > of what a protocol (HELD) interface is to a LIS - and that of the=20 > > requirements for a LIS itself throughout this section,=20 > misplaced for=20 > > what should be considered a black box to the interface. > >=20 > > [MB] I agree with your point, but not the proposed rewording. That=20 > > whole paragraph can be re-ordered/re-worded to more=20 > accurately relate=20 > > that 1st sentence to the specific scenario being described. : > > OLD: > >=20 > > " A LIS MUST NOT provide location information to a Device if it=20 > > cannot > > provide accurate information. This applies where the=20 > Device uses a > > VPN connection or is behind a NAT that serves a large geographic=20 > > area > > or multiple geographic locations (for example, a NAT used by an > > enterprise to connect their private network to the=20 > Internet). The > > LIS needs to be configured to recognize identifiers that=20 > represent > > these conditions." > >=20 > > NEW:=20 > > " In the cases where the Device uses a > > VPN connection or is behind a NAT that serves a large geographic=20 > > area > > or multiple geographic locations (for example, a NAT used by an > > enterprise to connect their private network to the=20 > Internet), the=20 > > LIS may not be > > able to return an accurate LI. If the LIS cannot determine an=20 > > accurate LI, > > it should not provide location information to the requesting=20 > > device. > > The LIS needs to be configured to recognize identifiers that=20 > > represent > > these conditions." > > [/MB] >=20 > [rm] sorry - an error in my original wording as cited, should=20 > have read "...LIS provide..." rather than as was stated,=20 > "...LIS not provide...".) Bigger point here is that a HELD=20 > protocol specification can't hold a LISs feet to the fire to=20 > provide an accurate (as opposed to inaccurate) location information. >=20 > [MB2] Correct. As was discussed at the meeting and captured=20 > in the minutes, we can't make normative statements about the=20 > LIS. [/MB2] [rm2] agree. >=20 >=20 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be pr= ivileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or res= ponsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review,= forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication o= r any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. 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This draft is a work item of the Geographic Location/Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : Discovering the Local Location Information Server (LIS) Author(s) : M. Thomson, J. Winterbottom Filename : draft-ietf-geopriv-lis-discovery-00.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2007-12-10 A method is described for the discovery of a Location Information Server. The method consists of attempting to use a Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) option, followed by a URI-enabled NAPTR (U-NAPTR). DHCP options are defined for both IPv4 and IPv6 DHCP. This document also defines a U-NAPTR Application Service for a LIS, with a specific Application Protocol for the HTTP Enabled Location Delivery (HELD) protocol. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-lis-discovery-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. 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This draft is a work item of the Geographic Location/Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : Discovering the Local Location Information Server (LIS) Author(s) : M. Thomson, J. Winterbottom Filename : draft-ietf-geopriv-lis-discovery-00.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2007-12-10 A method is described for the discovery of a Location Information Server. The method consists of attempting to use a Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) option, followed by a URI-enabled NAPTR (U-NAPTR). DHCP options are defined for both IPv4 and IPv6 DHCP. This document also defines a U-NAPTR Application Service for a LIS, with a specific Application Protocol for the HTTP Enabled Location Delivery (HELD) protocol. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-lis-discovery-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-geopriv-lis-discovery-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-lis-discovery-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. 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This draft is a work item of the Geographic Location/Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : Binary to Decimal Conversion for Location Configuration Information Author(s) : J. Schnizlein, M. Linsner Filename : draft-ietf-geopriv-binary-lci-01.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2007-12-18 This document describes the nature of the data expressed in the geographic LCI defined in RFC 3825, and includes examples of conversion from its binary format to decimal character strings. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-binary-lci-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. 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Most are suggestions for readability or clarity and also to be more explicit and consistent in the wording. I apologize if any are duplicates of comments received from others. =20 Eric Arolick =20 - First paragraph of Introduction, the second sentence is awkward - suggest moving the phrase that starts with "such as" at the end of the sentence to the middle of the sentence after the words "access network", since this is what is being referred to. As it reads now, the first impression is that "such as ..." is related to "location information". =20 - Last paragraph of Section 3 - Should there be a reference to the identity-extensions document? - Or perhaps some general text that alerts the reader that the base protocol described in this document may be extended by other documents? =20 - Section 4.1.2 - In the first sentence, it seems that the word "accurate" could lead to misinterpretation. What is the measure of accuracy that the LIS should use to determine if it should provide location information? Maybe replace with "correct" or "appropriate" or reword to describe that the LIS should not return location when certain conditions are recognized. =20 - Section 4.1.2 - To perhaps make the section more clear, remove the last sentence of the first paragraph and the first sentence of the second paragraph. Start the second sentence of the second paragraph with "To recognize these conditions, the LIS operator ..." Then combine into 1 paragraph. =20 - Section 6, Table - The table should indicate that PIDF-LO is an optional component in the Response message. =20 - Section 6, Table - The table should not indicate that the code parameter is included in the location response message. According to Section 6.3, code is only used for errors. =20 - Section 6.1 - This section has a lot of explanatory text but never explicitly states the requirement for the protocol. Suggest adding at the beginning - "The responseTime parameter MAY be included in a location request message. When included, the possible value is either a decimal seconds value, or a value of emergencyRouting or emergencyDispatch." Then remove "is optional and" from the current first sentence. =20 - Section 6.2 - Skip a line before the list of possible values. For the "any" parameter, remove the second sentence. To be consistent with the language of the previous section, include the following sentence after the sentence that ends with "location URI" - "If the locationType parameter is absent, this value MUST be assumed as the default." =20 - Section 6.2 - For locationURI, as has been pointed out in other documents, there are two kinds of references. A reference can point to a fixed location at the time the reference is created (i.e. snapshot URI) or will return the current location at the time of de-referencing. Since the capability for the requestor to indicate what it wants is not part of this document, what kind should the LIS return? This document should describe the default kind of reference the LIS will return, or at least describe that there are two types and that it is left to the LIS to decide what type will be returned. =20 - Section 6.2 - Suggest replacing the last 2 sentences of the paragraph after the list of values that describe the "exact" parameter with - "The location types the LIS returns also depends on the setting of the optional "exact" attribute, as described in the following section." =20 - Section 6.2.1 - Start the section with " The "exact" attribute MAY be included in a locationRequest when the locationType parameter is included." =20 - Section 6.5 - Is the meaning of "scheme" in the context it is used in the second paragraph well known? I think some further explanatory text would help clarify what is meant. =20 - Section 6.5.1 - Remove "optional" from the first sentence. As the last sentence indicates, expires is not optional, it is conditionally required. =20 - Section 7 - Should the XML schema indicate that PIDF-LO may be included in a Location Response? =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C84812.4C026D05 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Below are comments on draft 3 of HELD. Most are = suggestions for readability or clarity and also to be more explicit and consistent = in the wording. I apologize if any are duplicates of comments received from = others. Eric Arolick - First paragraph of Introduction, the second = sentence is awkward – suggest moving the phrase that starts with = “such as” at the end of the sentence to the middle of the sentence after the words = “access network”, since this is what is being referred to. As it reads = now, the first impression is that “such as …” is related to = “location information”. - Last paragraph of Section 3 – Should there be = a reference to the identity-extensions document? – Or perhaps some = general text that alerts the reader that the base protocol described in this = document may be extended by other documents? - Section 4.1.2 – In the first sentence, it = seems that the word “accurate” could lead to misinterpretation. What is = the measure of accuracy that the LIS should use to determine if it should = provide location information? Maybe replace with “correct” or = “appropriate” or reword to describe that the LIS should not return location when = certain conditions are recognized. - Section 4.1.2 – To perhaps make the section = more clear, remove the last sentence of the first paragraph and the first = sentence of the second paragraph. Start the second sentence of the second = paragraph with “To recognize these conditions, the LIS operator …” = Then combine into 1 paragraph. - Section 6, Table – The table should indicate = that PIDF-LO is an optional component in the Response = message. - Section 6, Table – The table should not = indicate that the code parameter is included in the location response message. = According to Section 6.3, code is only used for = errors. - Section 6.1 – This section has a lot of = explanatory text but never explicitly states the requirement for the protocol. = Suggest adding at the beginning – “The responseTime parameter MAY be included in a location request message. When included, the possible = value is either a decimal seconds value, or a value of emergencyRouting or = emergencyDispatch.” Then remove “is optional and” from the current first = sentence. - Section 6.2 – Skip a line before the list of possible values. For the “any” parameter, remove the second sentence. To be consistent with the language of the previous section, = include the following sentence after the sentence that ends with “location = URI” - “If the locationType parameter is absent, this value MUST be = assumed as the default.” - Section 6.2 - For locationURI, as has been pointed = out in other documents, there are two kinds of references. A reference can = point to a fixed location at the time the reference is created (i.e. snapshot URI) = or will return the current location at the time of de-referencing. Since the = capability for the requestor to indicate what it wants is not part of this = document, what kind should the LIS return? This document should describe the default kind of = reference the LIS will return, or at least describe that there are two types and = that it is left to the LIS to decide what type will be = returned. - Section 6.2 – Suggest replacing the last 2 = sentences of the paragraph after the list of values that describe the = “exact” parameter with – “The location types the LIS returns also = depends on the setting of the optional “exact” attribute, as = described in the following section.” - Section 6.2.1 – Start the section with = “ The “exact” attribute MAY be included in a locationRequest when the locationType = parameter is included.” - Section 6.5 – Is the meaning of = “scheme” in the context it is used in the second paragraph well known? I think = some further explanatory text would help clarify what is = meant. - Section 6.5.1 – Remove = “optional” from the first sentence. 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I'd like to get a few people (at least 3) to volunteer to do a detailed final review during last call (which will happen in early January). This will involve carefully reading the draft for internal consistency, completeness, and readability - you'll need to read the draft from the perspective of an implementor picking it up a year from now, not the perspective of a working group member that's been forging the consensus. Catching nits and grammar issues is good too, but it's not the primary point of this detailed review. You'll send your review to the list (any small nits you can just send to mary) - hopefully it will say "Its all good - ready to publish", but if you find a spot that needs adjustment, getting the adjustment made now is much much better than doing it during IESG review. If you have the time to perform this review, please send me a note. 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Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Sparks" To: "GEOPRIV" Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 10:16 AM Subject: [Geopriv] Last stages for -http-location-delivery > As noted in Vancouver, we're wrapping up the http location delivery > document very soon. > > I'd like to get a few people (at least 3) to volunteer to do a > detailed final review during last call (which will happen in early > January). > This will involve carefully reading the draft for internal > consistency, completeness, and readability - you'll need to read the > draft > from the perspective of an implementor picking it up a year from now, > not the perspective of a working group member that's been > forging the consensus. Catching nits and grammar issues is good too, > but it's not the primary point of this detailed review. You'll send > your review to the list (any small nits you can just send to mary) - > hopefully it will say "Its all good - ready to publish", but if you > find a spot > that needs adjustment, getting the adjustment made now is much much > better than doing it during IESG review. > > If you have the time to perform this review, please send me a note. > > Thanks, > > RjS > > > _______________________________________________ > Geopriv mailing list > Geopriv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv _______________________________________________ Geopriv mailing list Geopriv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv From geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 27 17:41:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J81Pu-000782-S0; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:41:30 -0500 Received: from geopriv by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J81Pt-00077w-Bf for geopriv-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:41:29 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J81Pt-00077o-1L for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:41:29 -0500 Received: from learjet.fueladvance.com ([216.75.15.135] helo=mail.fueladvance2.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J81Ps-0000PT-A8 for geopriv@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:41:28 -0500 Received: from u2 ([127.0.0.1]) by mail.fueladvance2.com with hMailServer ; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:41:17 +0000 From: "Tatham Oddie" To: "'GEOPRIV'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [Geopriv] Last stages for -http-location-delivery Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 09:41:01 +1100 Message-ID: <004501c848d9$9000e520$b002af60$@com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 thread-index: AchIrEsBNMwmG6KsTieBfUYfxrQU8AALP9Tg Content-Language: en-au X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 X-BeenThere: geopriv@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Geographic Location/Privacy List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: geopriv-bounces@ietf.org Robert, As someone who's only been observing the list for about a month or two, I'm happy to do a review if that would be useful to you. Thanks, Tatham Oddie call:+61414275989, call:+61280113982, skype:tathamoddie, msn:tatham@oddie.com.au, tatham.oddie.com.au -----Original Message----- From: Robert Sparks [mailto:rjsparks@nostrum.com] Sent: Friday, 28 December 2007 4:17 AM To: GEOPRIV Subject: [Geopriv] Last stages for -http-location-delivery As noted in Vancouver, we're wrapping up the http location delivery document very soon. I'd like to get a few people (at least 3) to volunteer to do a detailed final review during last call (which will happen in early January). This will involve carefully reading the draft for internal consistency, completeness, and readability - you'll need to read the draft from the perspective of an implementor picking it up a year from now, not the perspective of a working group member that's been forging the consensus. Catching nits and grammar issues is good too, but it's not the primary point of this detailed review. You'll send your review to the list (any small nits you can just send to mary) - hopefully it will say "Its all good - ready to publish", but if you find a spot that needs adjustment, getting the adjustment made now is much much better than doing it during IESG review. If you have the time to perform this review, please send me a note. 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