From nobody Thu Mar 3 09:53:26 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17F323A1159; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 09:53:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.061 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.061 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id keOibd1DJTdK; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 09:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8569F3A10AD; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 09:53:09 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.107.120.176; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'GROW WG'" Cc: Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:53:06 -0500 Message-ID: <01bc01d82f27$89b1a3a0$9d14eae0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD_01D82EFD.A0DD4950" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AdgvJ03n0yJ1dLCmShmSdHv3I5nVjg== X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: [GROW] Request for input on Prefix Limits by IETF 113 IDR session (3/4 to 3/25) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2022 17:53:24 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD_01D82EFD.A0DD4950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Grow: In the past you requested the IDR WG to consider drafts on prefix limits. Two drafts proposed included discussions on prefix limits (draft-wang-idr-vpn-prefix-orf-02.txt, draft-sas-idr-maxprefix-inbound-04.txt) Would you query the grow working group regarding: a) hard prefix limits per BGP peer a) (protocol enforced) maximum prefix (inbound) b) (software enforced) maximum prefix (inbound) c) (software enforced) maximum prefix (outbound) b) thresholds prior to hard limits per BGP peer c) What limits should be placed on VPNs? What granularity Do you think you could get an answer for IDR by the end of IETF 113? If you wish, I can also present the request at Grow at IETF 113. 5 minutes (what I need + why) 10 discussion (when I listen to operations experts) Sue Hares (idr co-chair) -------------------- Drafts mentioned Draft 1: draft-wang-idr-vpn-prefix-orf-02.txt https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-vpn-prefix-orf/ Note: ORF mechanism not approved, but prefix limits discussion is useful: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/Lt5IQVUNPxhEh8-xvRTDIJZ24Kk/ New definitions: Weak-PE, rogue-PE Draft 2: draft-sas-idr-maxprefix-inbound-04.txt https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sas-idr-maxprefix-inbound/ (in IPR call prior to adoption) ------=_NextPart_000_01BD_01D82EFD.A0DD4950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Grow: =

 

In the past you = requested the IDR WG to consider drafts on prefix limits. =

 

Two drafts proposed = included discussions on prefix limits

(draft-wang-idr-vpn-prefix-orf-02.txt, =

draft-sas-idr-maxprefix-inbound-04.txt) =

 

Would you query the grow = working group regarding:

 

a) hard prefix limits = per BGP peer

   a) = (protocol enforced) maximum prefix (inbound)

   b) (software enforced) maximum prefix = (inbound)

   c) = (software enforced) maximum prefix (outbound)

 

b) thresholds prior to = hard limits per BGP peer

 

c) What limits should be = placed on VPNs?

    What granularity =   

 

Do you think you could = get an answer for IDR by

the end of IETF 113?

 

If you wish, I can also = present the request at Grow at IETF 113.

5 minutes (what I need + why)

10 discussion (when I listen to operations experts) =  

 

Sue Hares

(idr co-chair)

 

--------------------

<= p class=3DMsoNormal> 

Drafts mentioned

 

Draft 1: = draft-wang-idr-vpn-prefix-orf-02.txt

= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-idr-vpn-prefix-orf/<= /o:p>

 

Note: ORF mechanism not approved, but prefix limits = discussion is useful:

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/Lt5IQVUNPxhEh8-xvRTDIJZ2= 4Kk/

 

New definitions: =  Weak-PE, rogue-PE

 

Draft 2: = draft-sas-idr-maxprefix-inbound-04.txt  

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sas-idr-maxprefix-inbound/

(in IPR call prior to = adoption)

 

=

------=_NextPart_000_01BD_01D82EFD.A0DD4950-- From nobody Mon Mar 7 02:07:25 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5FFE3A08C3; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 02:07:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ezpnD_aLAjMQ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 02:07:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.imdea.org (mail.imdea.org [185.195.99.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 318963A0E1A; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 02:07:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Arachnida X-Arachnida-Id: 3BCFE121C Received: from smtpclient.apple (209-vpn.londen10.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [165.254.197.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: juancamilo.cardona@imdea.org) by mail.imdea.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3BCFE121C; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 11:06:58 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.60.0.1.1\)) From: Camilo Cardona In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2022 11:06:55 +0100 Cc: grow-chairs@ietf.org, grow@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> References: <164664670607.9161.10011036362657422669@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Camilo Cardona X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.60.0.1.1) Archived-At: Subject: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 10:07:21 -0000 Hi Grow, We just submitted a new draft proposing a yang module for configuring = and managing BMP on a device. It would be nice to get some comments, observations, etc. Grow Chairs, will it be possible to get a 5 minute slot in the next = session to give an overview of this module? Thanks, Camilo Cardona >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/22, 10:51, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" = wrote: >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Camilo Cardona and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang > Revision: 01 > Title: BMP YANG Module > Document date: 2022-03-07 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 14 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang/ > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang > Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01 >=20 > Abstract: > This document proposes a YANG module for BMP (BGP Monitoring > Protocol) configuration and monitoring. A complementary RPC = triggers > a refresh of the session of a BMP station. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Mar 7 02:10:32 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB7573A0E47 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 02:10:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fastly.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBCauoyPQ_nW for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 02:10:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com (mail-ed1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97B403A0E31 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 02:09:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id s1so19052342edd.13 for ; Mon, 07 Mar 2022 02:09:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastly.com; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=axpNZ2NfZ3oYM7lL0zP/iiJa4kcR5GtDNT94yWDKo64=; b=m5D/pCrPHX3u4twlsMx8OJkBfpH8GOcKpXFVYx+vvTrB85Wp1aqvqpfALooO23BGsH 5mlEpPTBvdFkRDkNzmpBZTftB9e2YQ8ouF4EMMHT1C+LGC8I9zkZ/bL1Yph1ebVxlHa+ LcRRt4M0kSugsh3ZjVqdCUpI0otNqvmG5Q8fw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=axpNZ2NfZ3oYM7lL0zP/iiJa4kcR5GtDNT94yWDKo64=; b=5eEakEenM0ZMKag+Z11e+djvzwIVFHXH+RQDpAGmUBYEpH4yyDTy+XNbyH0QVCWy1L SyW8MnbknR86xPhsM7JJcfTzLqkOdwBlKUScrl2ppyDAnZDN9FrvYv3WNH5cnzhuGor1 JbrIwleIKFrIds8mikzVph16h3jSQGMBZqG3Ka3hbwDsChQszNXR12B2CuR6GVbju3rs nn6IS00NInSzl31XQy4H9Mnd/LDht94bteaREO9muKric3bvPzQ8kgoQ1vi4qa8k2pJr XCRUcHdqAFDAyRxf2SZvqcwPvu4ItjCEcDWOamn2a3vdWrwphhyK0TyGQfaFX/IwEd74 GJLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532bvzvc8fAZ/cTWmEpq+otmt/PKWUldsztgJ13e9X5/849kY8Oj Wa5aQV3g/afAulxtu03lbIafNQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxH+K/UlZuYfKnuVb+7/xiELChMlBbjBiizyfPyqY1bsAc00rQ72XFXV0nZeMYMrIjNEha8tA== X-Received: by 2002:a50:ee83:0:b0:416:63c:3dd2 with SMTP id f3-20020a50ee83000000b00416063c3dd2mr10235961edr.361.1646647797389; Mon, 07 Mar 2022 02:09:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from snel ([2a10:3781:276:2:16f6:d8ff:fe47:2eb7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id dm11-20020a170907948b00b006cf488e72e3sm4558627ejc.25.2022.03.07.02.09.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 07 Mar 2022 02:09:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2022 11:09:54 +0100 From: Job Snijders To: Camilo Cardona Cc: Camilo Cardona , grow-chairs@ietf.org, grow@ietf.org Message-ID: References: <164664670607.9161.10011036362657422669@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 10:10:11 -0000 On Mon, Mar 07, 2022 at 11:06:55AM +0100, Camilo Cardona wrote: > We just submitted a new draft proposing a yang module for configuring > and managing BMP on a device. > > It would be nice to get some comments, observations, etc. > > Grow Chairs, will it be possible to get a 5 minute slot in the next > session to give an overview of this module? Your request for presentation time has been noted and accepted! Thanks. Kind regards, Job From nobody Mon Mar 7 10:07:06 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A25873A0E1D; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 10:07:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.605 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.605 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=hJD9AsvD; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=NrES73cV Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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OnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_MW3PR11MB46513644B242971E542722D5B6089MW3PR11MB4651namp_-- From nobody Mon Mar 7 13:23:38 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 837933A0BA8; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 13:23:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3AbXmzor-AYP; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 13:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8962B3A0BE0; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 13:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 785291E341; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 16:23:29 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BD682649-D268-43FC-B93F-038DE3A8C575" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2022 16:23:28 -0500 Cc: Camilo Cardona , Camilo Cardona , "grow-chairs@ietf.org" , "grow@ietf.org" Message-Id: References: <164664670607.9161.10011036362657422669@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> To: "Tim Evens (tievens)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 21:23:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BD682649-D268-43FC-B93F-038DE3A8C575 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Brief note that the tcpm module for YANG has some discussion about = generically tuning this stuff. I'd strongly encourage those with an interest in this topic, and how = TCP-AO would interact with the BMP module, to give their draft a strong = look. It's working through IETF last call. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tcpm-yang-tcp-06 = -- Jeff > On Mar 7, 2022, at 1:04 PM, Tim Evens (tievens) = wrote: >=20 > =20 > // Connection, missing tcp tuning params > // like keep-alives, segment sizes, etc. > =20 > TCP keep-alives SHOULD be enabled by default if possible. The ability = to tune them is also important. Window sizes have been a challenge over = higher latency BMP sessions. We should be able to adjust/configure = scaling/etc.=20 > =20 > In addition to TCP tuning, I do like the ability to configure an = initiation delay as well as backoff timers. If the BMP session is = flapping, then at some point it should backoff and wait a little longer.=20= > =20 > Thanks, > Tim > =20 > =20 > On 3/7/22, 2:08 AM, "GROW" wrote: > =20 > Hi Grow, >=20 > We just submitted a new draft proposing a yang module for configuring = and managing BMP on a device. >=20 > It would be nice to get some comments, observations, etc. >=20 > Grow Chairs, will it be possible to get a 5 minute slot in the next = session to give an overview of this module? >=20 > Thanks, > Camilo Cardona >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/22, 10:51, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" = wrote: > >=20 > >=20 > > A new version of I-D, draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Camilo Cardona and posted to = the > > IETF repository. > >=20 > > Name: draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang > > Revision: 01 > > Title: BMP YANG Module > > Document date: 2022-03-07 > > Group: Individual Submission > > Pages: 14 > > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt = > > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang/ = > > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang = > > Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01 = > >=20 > > Abstract: > > This document proposes a YANG module for BMP (BGP Monitoring > > Protocol) configuration and monitoring. A complementary RPC = triggers > > a refresh of the session of a BMP station. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > The IETF Secretariat > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow = ______________________________= _________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow = --Apple-Mail=_BD682649-D268-43FC-B93F-038DE3A8C575 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Brief= note that the tcpm module for YANG has some discussion about = generically tuning this stuff.

I'd strongly encourage those with an interest in this topic, = and how TCP-AO would interact with the BMP module, to give their draft a = strong look.  It's working through IETF last call.


-- = Jeff


On Mar 7, 2022, at 1:04 PM, Tim = Evens (tievens) <tievens=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:

 
           = // Connection, missing tcp tuning params
           = // like keep-alives, segment sizes, etc.
 
TCP keep-alives SHOULD be = enabled by default if possible. The ability to tune them is also = important.  Window sizes have been a challenge over higher latency = BMP sessions. We should be able to adjust/configure = scaling/etc. 
 
In addition to TCP tuning, = I do like the ability to configure an initiation delay as well as = backoff timers.  If the BMP session is flapping, then at some point = it should backoff and wait a little longer. 
 
Thanks,
Tim
 
 
On 3/7/22, 2:08 AM, "GROW" <grow-bounces@ietf.org> wrote:
 
Hi Grow,

We just submitted a new = draft proposing a yang module for configuring and managing BMP on a = device.

It would be nice to get some = comments, observations, etc.

Grow Chairs, = will it be possible to get a 5 minute slot in the next session to give = an overview of this module?

Thanks,
Camilo Cardona



> 
> =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/22, 10:51, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>    A new version of I-D, = draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt
>    has = been successfully submitted by Camilo Cardona and posted to the
>    IETF repository.
> 
>    = Name:           &nb= sp;  draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang
>    = Revision:  01
>    = Title:           &n= bsp; BMP YANG Module
>    Document = date:     2022-03-07
>    = Group:           &n= bsp; Individual Submission
>    = Pages:           &n= bsp; 14
>    = URL:            https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt=
>    = Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang/<= br class=3D"">>    = Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang<= /a>
>    = Diff:           
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01=
> 
>    Abstract:
>       This document = proposes a YANG module for BMP (BGP Monitoring
>       Protocol) = configuration and monitoring.  A complementary RPC triggers
>       a refresh of the = session of a BMP station.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>    The IETF Secretariat
> 
> 
> 
> 

_______________________________________________
GROW mailing list
GROW@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow
_______________________________________________
GROW mailing list
GROW@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow

= --Apple-Mail=_BD682649-D268-43FC-B93F-038DE3A8C575-- From nobody Mon Mar 7 13:32:26 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84ED93A12CD; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 13:32:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cdPXc-netOmq; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 13:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C52D3A11DB; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 13:32:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 07DB41E342; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 16:31:58 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2022 16:31:56 -0500 Cc: Camilo Cardona , grow-chairs@ietf.org, grow@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <326A574B-E666-4AA3-8E37-0C21998B1275@pfrc.org> References: <164664670607.9161.10011036362657422669@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> To: Camilo Cardona X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 21:32:24 -0000 Camilo, A few quick notes from an eyeball review of the draft: You probably care about what's going on for the tcp yang module. I've = prodded that item in a separate response. For your connections, just put in the full 4-tuple; i.e. local-port. For your address family list, perhaps consider the BGP yang identity = afi-safi-type. We're hoping that as the bgp-yang work wraps up we'll = have the expected types in a common registry that can be extensibly = maintained. I see you're using this for the "name" for address-family = filters. For your "bmp_peer_types", consider having it be an identity. They're = easy to maintain in the yang language, while enumerations tend to = require a fully model update. How were you planning on monitoring other network-instances? E.g. the = ribs for vrf-X? Consider moving your action to be a per-station action. See for example = the actions in the bgp yang model. -- Jeff > On Mar 7, 2022, at 5:06 AM, Camilo Cardona = wrote: >=20 > Hi Grow, >=20 > We just submitted a new draft proposing a yang module for configuring = and managing BMP on a device. >=20 > It would be nice to get some comments, observations, etc. >=20 > Grow Chairs, will it be possible to get a 5 minute slot in the next = session to give an overview of this module? >=20 > Thanks, > Camilo Cardona >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/22, 10:51, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" = wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> A new version of I-D, draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Camilo Cardona and posted to the >> IETF repository. >>=20 >> Name: draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang >> Revision: 01 >> Title: BMP YANG Module >> Document date: 2022-03-07 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 14 >> URL: = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt >> Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang/ >> Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang >> Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> This document proposes a YANG module for BMP (BGP Monitoring >> Protocol) configuration and monitoring. A complementary RPC = triggers >> a refresh of the session of a BMP station. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF Secretariat >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow From nobody Mon Mar 7 15:35:09 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietf.org Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5DC33A143B; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:34:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: grow@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.46.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: grow@ietf.org Message-ID: <164669609075.9645.1559466075511850020@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 15:34:50 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [GROW] I-D Action: draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv-07.txt X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 23:34:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Global Routing Operations WG of the IETF. Title : TLV support for BMP Route Monitoring and Peer Down Messages Authors : Paolo Lucente Yunan Gu Filename : draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv-07.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2022-03-07 Abstract: Most of the message types defined by the BGP Monitoring Protocol (BMP) make provision for optional trailing data. However, Route Monitoring messages (which provide a snapshot of the monitored Routing Information Base) and Peer Down messages (which indicate that a peering session was terminated) do not. Supporting optional data in TLV format across all BMP message types allows for a homogeneous and extensible surface that would be useful for the most different use-cases that need to convey additional data to a BMP station. While it is not intended for this document to cover any specific utilization scenario, it defines a simple way to support optional TLV data in all message types. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv-07 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Mon Mar 7 15:37:24 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732803A1091 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:37:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.243 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.243 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AIJmGRP3YdRR for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:37:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (mail.gin.ntt.net [IPv6:2001:418:3ff:5::192:26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3002F3A1058 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPV6:2001:418:1401:10::101f] (unknown [IPv6:2001:418:1401:10::101f]) by mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 382E3EE02FD; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 23:37:12 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <212eca4f-0f1d-8dcf-4ec6-59f143fb0a95@ntt.net> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 00:37:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.2 From: Paolo Lucente To: "duzongpeng@foxmail.com" , GROW References: Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] On LC for draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv (ends December 1st 2021) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 23:37:22 -0000 Hi Zongpeng Du, Well spotted, thanks very much! I have processed your feedback into the -07 version of the document. Paolo On 7/12/21 08:34, duzongpeng@foxmail.com wrote: > Hi, all > > I have read the draft and I think it is ready for the IESG review. > > It is helpful to inform additional information. > >     A confusion in the abstract:  should it be "a" homogeneous and >    extensible surface > > Best Regards > Zongpeng Du > > > -----Original Message----- > From: GROW [mailto:grow-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Job Snijders > Sent: Thursday, December 2, 2021 11:11 PM > To: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Cc: grow@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [GROW] On LC for draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv (ends December 1st 2021) > > Hi Folks, > > Please take 15 minutes out of your day to review this *really short!* internet-draft. The authors were kind enough to make it only 3 pages of actual content :-) > > We'll extend this WGLC with another week (December 9th, 2021) > > Kind regards, > > Job > > On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 05:33:39PM +0000, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: >> Dear GROW WG, dear authors >> >> I have reviewed the draft. I think it is straight forward and ready for IESG. >> >> It is the next logical step to make the different BMP message types to be equal by supporting TLV's for BMP route-monitoring and peer_down messages as well. >> >> Best wishes >> Thomas >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: GROW  On Behalf Of Job Snijders >> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 5:16 PM >> To: Paolo Lucente  >> Cc: grow@ietf.org grow@ietf.org  >> Subject: Re: [GROW] On LC for draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv (ends December >> 1st 2021) >> >> Dear all, >> >> This starts the formal WGLC period which will run from November 16th until December 1st 2021. >> >> Please review >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdata >> tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv-06&data=04 >> %7C01%7CThomas.Graf%40swisscom.com%7C67562bce3536413b2e1008d9a91ca0db% >> 7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C0%7C0%7C637726762697241609%7CUnkn >> own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwi >> LCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=JROJtoThUbY9PaWO19f6UGiudA9dli83mNdkjl >> hrhaE%3D&reserved=0 and provide comments or feedback on the >> grow@ietf.org mailing list! >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Job >> >> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 05:11:56PM +0100, Paolo Lucente wrote: >> > Dear Colleagues, Dear Chairs, >> > >> > A brief email to follow-up the presentation of >> > draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv last week at the WG meeting. We authors >> > believe there are no more items to work on for this draft, received >> > inputs were processed and any questions / concerns were addressed. I'd hence like to ask to LC this work. >> > >> > You may read motivation for this work in the draft itself, let me >> > supplement it saying that this is a key piece of work that would >> > make extensible every BMP message defined so far; this, in turn, >> > would bring BMP on par with other modern monitoring (/ telemetry) protocols (/ stacks / solutions). >> > >> > Paolo >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > GROW mailing list >> > GROW@ietf.org >> > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. >> > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fgrow&data=04%7C01%7CThomas.Graf% >> > 40 >> > swisscom.com%7C67562bce3536413b2e1008d9a91ca0db%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9b >> > ee >> > c35d19b557a1%7C0%7C0%7C637726762697241609%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8ey >> > JW >> > IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300 >> > 0& >> > amp;sdata=HFqIEZe4rv2aBdlxEzo9%2BRBriEkOaBbhPi70WCeIZ2U%3D&reser >> > ve >> > d=0 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> GROW mailing list >> GROW@ietf.org >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fgrow&data=04%7C01%7CThomas.Graf%40 >> swisscom.com%7C67562bce3536413b2e1008d9a91ca0db%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9bee >> c35d19b557a1%7C0%7C0%7C637726762697251563%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW >> IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& >> amp;sdata=uemMUSyGVXFUQb1%2BKPZRyvrw%2BJp9fpjLJXjxpQyNPd4%3D&reser >> ved=0 > > > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow > > > > > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow From nobody Mon Mar 7 15:39:01 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F45A3A1388 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:38:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.243 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.243 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k_9wRUEgbVyY for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:38:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (mail.gin.ntt.net [IPv6:2001:418:3ff:5::192:26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 081343A15CF for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:37:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPV6:2001:418:1401:10::101f] (unknown [IPv6:2001:418:1401:10::101f]) by mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22265EE016B; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 23:37:56 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 00:37:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.2 From: Paolo Lucente To: Jared Mauch , Matthias.Arnold@swisscom.com Cc: job@fastly.com, grow@ietf.org References: Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] On LC for draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv (ends December 1st 2021) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 23:38:53 -0000 Wrt versioning, I do expect the Monitoring Protocol to feature maximum one single power-of-two level more popularity than the Monitored Protocol. Paolo On 6/12/21 16:13, Jared Mauch wrote: > Similar, I have read this and it seems straightforward. > > My only question is around the BMP versioning, do we expect > that to extend past 255 at some point? > > - Jared > > On Mon, Dec 06, 2021 at 06:53:40AM +0000, Matthias.Arnold@swisscom.com wrote: >> Hallo GROW WG >> >> I've read the draft. >> TLV on BMP monitoring- and peerdown-messages complete BMP and make it uniform. >> I am looking very forward to collect ADD-PATH on our collectors as a standard >> to bring more visability (a.e. backup-path) to our BGP monitoring. >> I think the draft is ready to forward to IESG. >> >> Have a good week >> Matthias >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: GROW On Behalf Of Job Snijders >> Sent: Dienstag, 16. November 2021 17:16 >> To: Paolo Lucente >> Cc: grow@ietf.org grow@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [GROW] On LC for draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv (ends December 1st 2021) >> >> Dear all, >> >> This starts the formal WGLC period which will run from November 16th until December 1st 2021. >> >> Please review https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv-06&data=04%7C01%7CMatthias.Arnold%40swisscom.com%7C67562bce3536413b2e1008d9a91ca0db%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C0%7C0%7C637726762696880424%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=1FAQOy3X%2FtjxztaFoNEwcOT4bZGliXRcnTHZbFPc%2FRQ%3D&reserved=0 >> and provide comments or feedback on the grow@ietf.org mailing list! >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Job >> >> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 05:11:56PM +0100, Paolo Lucente wrote: >>> Dear Colleagues, Dear Chairs, >>> >>> A brief email to follow-up the presentation of draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv >>> last week at the WG meeting. We authors believe there are no more >>> items to work on for this draft, received inputs were processed and >>> any questions / concerns were addressed. I'd hence like to ask to LC this work. >>> >>> You may read motivation for this work in the draft itself, let me >>> supplement it saying that this is a key piece of work that would make >>> extensible every BMP message defined so far; this, in turn, would >>> bring BMP on par with other modern monitoring (/ telemetry) protocols (/ stacks / solutions). >>> >>> Paolo >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> GROW mailing list >>> GROW@ietf.org >>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. >>> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fgrow&data=04%7C01%7CMatthias.Arnol >>> d%40swisscom.com%7C67562bce3536413b2e1008d9a91ca0db%7C364e5b87c1c7420d >>> 9beec35d19b557a1%7C0%7C0%7C637726762696880424%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8 >>> eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3 >>> 000&sdata=kVCMQOI9D41eBKF4%2FdYiZHyuEG%2Bdm3eM7ls5yLzCSzU%3D&r >>> eserved=0 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> GROW mailing list >> GROW@ietf.org >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fgrow&data=04%7C01%7CMatthias.Arnold%40swisscom.com%7C67562bce3536413b2e1008d9a91ca0db%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C0%7C0%7C637726762696880424%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=kVCMQOI9D41eBKF4%2FdYiZHyuEG%2Bdm3eM7ls5yLzCSzU%3D&reserved=0 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> GROW mailing list >> GROW@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow > From nobody Mon Mar 7 15:43:44 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7B73A1065; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:43:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.244 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.244 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l5i9eYy_twjr; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:43:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net [128.241.192.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC0153A0FF7; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 15:43:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPV6:2001:418:1401:10::101f] (unknown [IPv6:2001:418:1401:10::101f]) by mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6E625EE016B; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 23:43:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <795c7ed4-1317-0e11-f2ab-6cc08891d8e4@ntt.net> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 00:43:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.2 Content-Language: en-US To: grow@ietf.org, "grow-chairs@ietf.org" References: <164669609075.9645.1559466075511850020@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Paolo Lucente In-Reply-To: <164669609075.9645.1559466075511850020@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] I-D Action: draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv-07.txt X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 23:43:43 -0000 Dear Chairs, I have processed all outstanding feedback for draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv, once again big thanks to Jeff Haas and Ben Maddison for their valuable new input, plus indeed all reviewers. May i ask <= 5 mins of time to summarize the changes to the document? It would be great segway into the draft-lucente-grow-bmp-tlv-ebit document. Paolo On 8/3/22 00:34, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Global Routing Operations WG of the IETF. > > Title : TLV support for BMP Route Monitoring and Peer Down Messages > Authors : Paolo Lucente > Yunan Gu > Filename : draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv-07.txt > Pages : 7 > Date : 2022-03-07 > > Abstract: > Most of the message types defined by the BGP Monitoring Protocol > (BMP) make provision for optional trailing data. However, Route > Monitoring messages (which provide a snapshot of the monitored > Routing Information Base) and Peer Down messages (which indicate that > a peering session was terminated) do not. Supporting optional data > in TLV format across all BMP message types allows for a homogeneous > and extensible surface that would be useful for the most different > use-cases that need to convey additional data to a BMP station. > While it is not intended for this document to cover any specific > utilization scenario, it defines a simple way to support optional TLV > data in all message types. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv/ > > There is also an htmlized version available at: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv-07 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv-07 > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts > > > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow From nobody Tue Mar 8 00:48:20 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4573A0C55 for ; 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Tue, 08 Mar 2022 00:48:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from snel ([2a10:3781:276:2:16f6:d8ff:fe47:2eb7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bx1-20020a0564020b4100b00410f01a91f0sm7408858edb.73.2022.03.08.00.48.07 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 08 Mar 2022 00:48:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 09:48:06 +0100 From: Job Snijders To: Paolo Lucente Cc: grow@ietf.org, "grow-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: References: <164669609075.9645.1559466075511850020@ietfa.amsl.com> <795c7ed4-1317-0e11-f2ab-6cc08891d8e4@ntt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <795c7ed4-1317-0e11-f2ab-6cc08891d8e4@ntt.net> X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] I-D Action: draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv-07.txt X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 08:48:16 -0000 On Tue, Mar 08, 2022 at 12:43:37AM +0100, Paolo Lucente wrote: > I have processed all outstanding feedback for draft-ietf-grow-bmp-tlv, once > again big thanks to Jeff Haas and Ben Maddison for their valuable new input, > plus indeed all reviewers. > > May i ask <= 5 mins of time to summarize the changes to the document? It > would be great segway into the draft-lucente-grow-bmp-tlv-ebit document. Noted! 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR09MB8142.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 45f21ffd-5561-4840-c8a6-08da013af3b1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Mar 2022 19:36:33.3498 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR09MB8541 Archived-At: Subject: [GROW] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 19:36:44 -0000 This question has relevance to the ASPA method for route leak detection. Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a non-transp= arent IXP AS B?=20 IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's prefixe= s looks like this: A B C. I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in the mi= ddle between an ISP and its customer? Sriram=20 =20 From nobody Tue Mar 8 12:04:21 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1543A13ED; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:04:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1XiVaK-cfoxq; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:04:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x834.google.com (mail-qt1-x834.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::834]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 367F23A1941; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:02:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x834.google.com with SMTP id bt3so144643qtb.0; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 12:02:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JOJab311AM497SCI9UOBLSgwlbozAyhfxkcQ0Nx3m24=; b=eMxxAJGELMy4LfuNsQ0/OCSWrtGnrHCoEaEAGMpBKz6+kNXuRad8X+tp0k+/DMEtS+ hKykUXq6erjKfLXu8Ys1T9ybhu/0bHNCsurd73787kfJ5zmlQAlOlmKlHFT0ghi/EOe1 qJjDGmohDM2GaEZecVJj93oulOAh71F7/A5Q2LGpTVg5ui2sGDNH/f39h7Q2APOJ1At9 Gjtdn5XD0btrKbC1v9BXw/VrRriLCaCksUeP3FysYbT0N49Ro9L1ZpA9qJ4NgAQbZz6y UMP2PZh9acykoDZ1GVMyVr7MGvIh6KHu2iItBmU7lF0NcZTL60zYBBXtXCyLU9QWTKcj rZdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JOJab311AM497SCI9UOBLSgwlbozAyhfxkcQ0Nx3m24=; b=N4JJhxeYbJEeVKD+DmUoVdo+F3sW4teSKp9csyQbq2gQOuC/x6i6v9MZX3iNr/hSem b2tegENgjfB2d7oYNnAqBZck8VBuykMIR+CiSzUBl+9Af2wtXAaAf0SIXSiuRaYmlqUr g4yuj0m3IlS6GfAgcIqp1PF5fsumd1ZijLovi/Je5Q08bBtNoqreuDkbwk149ePmA786 p4M72Jje4XK4EPYoHSnSfIMFgyB9efJsLdQKCbqcOMbllDvNmFsE0uLZNB6FbRipTOXX 9tythF0blOPyajPU6Ug4LtsKl5cuMp5iZmFHV0Cdbo3mpjKlD/NNCxzW3Cc5I916GXTq X1cg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532N0MSotrK9FLwqlZ5yiMJFQzMASyFmYSLUQfDq4DVLMULu4ffo EyyfRhaiDiZw0sdxD+hyEqZr/ci6KYkm/3G32QS+MhLSu9o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz26pX7z7aEzkM8f+CYq5wbURZOn6TNsu6Zde0Rc2iTlXItG2ooPIdY+cilxizJf86seOTSXXg6UiIyAg2g7XQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7dd1:0:b0:2e0:6fe1:189b with SMTP id c17-20020ac87dd1000000b002e06fe1189bmr4453863qte.629.1646769771542; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 12:02:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Christopher Morrow Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 15:02:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" Cc: "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000427f3205d9ba77b7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:04:14 -0000 --000000000000427f3205d9ba77b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:36 PM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) wrote: > This question has relevance to the ASPA method for route leak detection. > > Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a > non-transparent IXP AS B? > IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's > prefixes looks like this: A B C. > I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in the > middle between an ISP and its customer? > > it seems unlikely to me that an ISP would pick up a 'customer' (someone that pays them to transport packets) at an IXP fabric. Might it happen? sure? is it messy? yes! 1) that's probably a shared port 2) there are other folk feeding routes and packets into the mix 3) how many came through the 'customer' port (which you can't really know easily) vs other participants on the ix 4) what capacity planning could the 'customer' do here? (none, basically with respect to the remote ISP port) Your question might work also as: "ISP A has a customer C on a direct link in location Y. ISP A is present at IXP-Z, so is customer C, though they do not bilaterally peer (not do they interconnect at the IXP). ISP A can still see Customer C's routes through the IXP-Z Route Server." that seems plausible, but not a desired outcome for the ISP :) since they will be unlikely to collect pesos for the traffic which MAY pass across that interconnect. --000000000000427f3205d9ba77b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:36 PM Sriram= , Kotikalapudi (Fed) <kotikalapudi.sriram=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
This question has relevance to th= e ASPA method for route leak detection.

Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a non-transp= arent IXP AS B?
IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's pre= fixes looks like this:=C2=A0 A B C.
I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in the mi= ddle between an ISP and its customer?


it seems unlikely to me that an ISP would pick up a 'customer' (= someone that pays them to transport packets) at an IXP fabric.
Mi= ght it happen? sure? is it messy? yes!

1) that'= ;s probably a shared port
2) there are other folk feeding routes = and packets into the mix
3) how many came through the 'custom= er' port (which you can't really know easily) vs other participants= on the ix=C2=A0
4) what capacity planning could the 'custome= r' do here? (none, basically with respect to the remote ISP port)
=

Your question might work also as:
=C2=A0 "ISP A= has a customer C on a direct link in location Y.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IS= P A is present at IXP-Z, so is customer=C2=A0C, though they do not bilatera= lly peer (not do they interconnect at the IXP).
=C2=A0 ISP A can = still see Customer C's routes through the IXP-Z Route Server."
=
that seems plausible, but not a desired outcome for the ISP :) since th= ey will be unlikely to collect=C2=A0pesos for the traffic
which M= AY pass across that interconnect.
=C2=A0=C2=A0
--000000000000427f3205d9ba77b7-- From nobody Tue Mar 8 12:16:03 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CCF53A13FF for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:16:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JfDTRMaMFJLG for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:15:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vs1-xe34.google.com (mail-vs1-xe34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE5243A13F1 for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:15:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe34.google.com with SMTP id d64so16268114vsd.12 for ; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 12:15:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Y7RGZFHfO+nov+4hnHIX69PWk5TrVGhPqGi6fHv5hWU=; b=LqIdSYZb5m0ngEkjN58/nlF496uz2wxPIvV8jvaLcYnnxhp4Nuk4vmPJkGWs1cwanj k2BD6M1JJM/CeZ/0cqWf+ur1Kxv6vgdR+idNVnCYyLkB3tSuLMrS/73Tz1rmcj+qtZE3 S3XXBESUJLWGwpyK+9jrfLL97bcIYqw8I/v1TNixLTN2VWANIL/L+80Iv6cTYMqKc97B P8O7F9rgaxHZb+bWGbPtpZesVcaj01pm4DegOEgAvJaP4vOScfEO4Dm8Kf97C9G8aExE n/crS5ysez9OWatNSEP/FXmv/RL1wMNJ/6Nk5WmLnxRkTQG17jS3xfjbgKsyoJ5J1pYv Qpzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Y7RGZFHfO+nov+4hnHIX69PWk5TrVGhPqGi6fHv5hWU=; b=MkKLThRP0S3mNM1+YWVlvDXht1cKlfkgDf7+mTXnFPzJY9nf1CGkrIGWVQJ1nlirMx V7oxWLWyYURljJi39fKaIDAd1gASanWOJUPIzyMmkP0sMBHLgpCtjWMHWSfyyURl0J+O LxlF/HDZWYTBFKLwH19orDCbGdcGc1bwB+DukcSGGVJyTke+KCtbI/bn9EQfLQ3iKjvg 99FQ5Aehd1zVn3nIBr1AQNkd78FeqgLsmWnkdWyC8gA2XTM/cH5e79LJR6RK1fwzmJA9 UUM+vzi9/KAcaUWrR+giulp0FRbSh2uYTJHgdNawa35iQ8q7IQRSTOBmreB01ylAkrmE KCAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533qqhuFLj1u+D01wDHBjkufxXnaqtgP+jxQThH0oFbkpNrZXAVK D3uIBb8L9S3N6ZPFopzAu93fD1NzFPAYHNbwfwnZlA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx7h/HlWhsM+qgOZSNA9vipqTz3hr0Jm+hHoKSQCkSZmeMF97MxMZmBITcMk4JpNZqgwJ5avnLqHh+/ioSTHlk= X-Received: by 2002:a67:e893:0:b0:31c:e6c:6f69 with SMTP id x19-20020a67e893000000b0031c0e6c6f69mr7885208vsn.85.1646770555491; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 12:15:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 21:16:18 +0100 Message-ID: To: Christopher Morrow Cc: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fca96d05d9baa535" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:16:02 -0000 --000000000000fca96d05d9baa535 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Well I think the answer is - it depends. First IXP fabric can be used as pure L3 share LAN or can be used (and it is often the case) as a p2p emulated VLAN over such L3 shared LAN. Now if this is L3 shared LAN still customer and ISP may peer directly and no third party traffic would be accepted at either end. If we talk about emulating L2 IXP fabric becomes just an emulated circuit and from the perspective of routing it a p2p interface. Sure the other aspects of the IXP quality, port monitoring, oversubscription etc... always will apply but there are ways to mitigate or handle those in real IXPs. Best, R. On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 9:05 PM Christopher Morrow < christopher.morrow@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:36 PM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) > wrote: > >> This question has relevance to the ASPA method for route leak detection. >> >> Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a >> non-transparent IXP AS B? >> IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's >> prefixes looks like this: A B C. >> I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in the >> middle between an ISP and its customer? >> >> > it seems unlikely to me that an ISP would pick up a 'customer' (someone > that pays them to transport packets) at an IXP fabric. > Might it happen? sure? is it messy? yes! > > 1) that's probably a shared port > 2) there are other folk feeding routes and packets into the mix > 3) how many came through the 'customer' port (which you can't really know > easily) vs other participants on the ix > 4) what capacity planning could the 'customer' do here? (none, basically > with respect to the remote ISP port) > > Your question might work also as: > "ISP A has a customer C on a direct link in location Y. > ISP A is present at IXP-Z, so is customer C, though they do not > bilaterally peer (not do they interconnect at the IXP). > ISP A can still see Customer C's routes through the IXP-Z Route Server." > > that seems plausible, but not a desired outcome for the ISP :) since they > will be unlikely to collect pesos for the traffic > which MAY pass across that interconnect. > > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow > --000000000000fca96d05d9baa535 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well I think the answer is - it depends.=C2=A0

First IXP fabric can be used as pure L3 share LAN or can be used (a= nd it is often the case) as a p2p emulated VLAN over such L3 shared LAN.=C2= =A0

Now if this is L3 shared LAN still customer an= d ISP may peer directly and no third=C2=A0party traffic would be accepted a= t either end.=C2=A0

If we talk about emulating L2 = IXP fabric becomes just an emulated circuit and from the perspective of rou= ting it a p2p interface.=C2=A0

Sure the other aspe= cts of the IXP quality, port monitoring, oversubscription etc... always wil= l apply but there are ways to mitigate or handle those in real IXPs.=C2=A0<= /div>

Best,
R.








On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 9:05 PM Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>


On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:36 PM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (= Fed) <kotikalapudi.sriram=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
This question has relevance to = the ASPA method for route leak detection.

Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a non-transp= arent IXP AS B?
IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's pre= fixes looks like this:=C2=A0 A B C.
I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in the mi= ddle between an ISP and its customer?


it seems unlikely to me that an ISP would pick up a 'customer' (= someone that pays them to transport packets) at an IXP fabric.
Mi= ght it happen? sure? is it messy? yes!

1) that'= ;s probably a shared port
2) there are other folk feeding routes = and packets into the mix
3) how many came through the 'custom= er' port (which you can't really know easily) vs other participants= on the ix=C2=A0
4) what capacity planning could the 'custome= r' do here? (none, basically with respect to the remote ISP port)
=

Your question might work also as:
=C2=A0 "ISP A= has a customer C on a direct link in location Y.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IS= P A is present at IXP-Z, so is customer=C2=A0C, though they do not bilatera= lly peer (not do they interconnect at the IXP).
=C2=A0 ISP A can = still see Customer C's routes through the IXP-Z Route Server."
=
that seems plausible, but not a desired outcome for the ISP :) since th= ey will be unlikely to collect=C2=A0pesos for the traffic
which M= AY pass across that interconnect.
=C2=A0=C2=A0
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--000000000000fca96d05d9baa535-- From nobody Tue Mar 8 12:26:47 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C71F3A16AE; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:26:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l0J4iLddq8gE; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:26:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x733.google.com (mail-qk1-x733.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::733]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D37523A16A8; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:26:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x733.google.com with SMTP id q4so45626qki.11; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 12:26:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3vfnEeApcQfgbGp2OFjURLx9ke4jm+86REbta0IX7kU=; b=d5EU7Nrs/18FGuYyJZDvs8vu0gPyGIDLitW8NYa5skX7pll36sWEGJ1G3/VRFFqKX8 EfhhF+Jiq5ac2ZM9uz0MghCNBFghS5M25S5OlrvqP0148GA2MP85XorPmKxcjBc7z1qK 927NFecXzskpq+P01h1lNE9Uhwz3dTxrF1p+TfA50D4N1pE5YHU1jb1FJR0p2Vmd0dPP kq7B7bR21RTy704KNHsW60i+GNSoohcBkGSUX+sE40r01i19HkArbtJOl65qMKVMVsqi WlKGAE5Qp5DP0XZsKUrbrQPcWLHAA2fVTs5Uzc01ygRjLKZBNj+vaxG2frW8JKTlnICX FyLw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3vfnEeApcQfgbGp2OFjURLx9ke4jm+86REbta0IX7kU=; b=AjqHqY2cchdkidHMoJmor6z4FaRIL0FCmUBH4gVb8Dk6Gp5TOjZGN+d35ADAsQS8iP LuGZQv59Qxhva3DiZTuBIo8p9mpRg5B+0r6l87THVx4ETti6QbU0rTdNkLGXLQ0qwTht +BdvWTMAaJqIoBCnxJQnUJnY7oh8hk/iozUC0fEfL22NbX18C+7IFtANxb/p3bmCPx4z 3AwyQaJNNAMChqssExKNnWdhoHk89PA1UueGMPsKvPmq6hs0UbKtpiI7Z6gxslNRTpBl 1awF/vj6xKDD9ZSGlS+7nQov6OcF6VlB2CndigIeBZ80Gqdam7hwY1Rtvh5/KhgHh2/g EWzQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5315Pirgi/ZdP4IZcqbL+cWONPcyIRU8yHQB3gNygSdMtrL0xwXr wpLXhHz0QVF3yV26Y04JVTl0Gh4ZucAT9BL/Qhw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzjKsqqHsQe2G5jfNWq/CRbYA2vzphzVOaqS7xGfXPzgHpRT8G3TjhaUTH3xhftZLDW8RfBfevKneBhH8BTWoQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:2544:b0:67d:15ed:ea9a with SMTP id s4-20020a05620a254400b0067d15edea9amr3539920qko.63.1646771198916; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 12:26:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Christopher Morrow Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 15:26:28 -0500 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000567df505d9baccea" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:26:46 -0000 --000000000000567df505d9baccea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 3:15 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > Well I think the answer is - it depends. > > First IXP fabric can be used as pure L3 share LAN or can be used (and it > is often the case) as a p2p emulated VLAN over such L3 shared LAN. > > Now if this is L3 shared LAN still customer and ISP may peer directly and > no third party traffic would be accepted at either end. > > If we talk about emulating L2 IXP fabric becomes just an emulated circuit > and from the perspective of routing it a p2p interface. > > Sure the other aspects of the IXP quality, port monitoring, > oversubscription etc... always will apply but there are ways to mitigate or > handle those in real IXPs. > > I don't dispute your content here, except that Sriram's question was about seeing 'customer routes via the RS'... which I think would obviate the emulation examples you provided. (well in a bunch of cases it would, you COULD hook up some tomfoolery to get this to work, but... that sounds complex and prone to disaster) > Best, > R. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 9:05 PM Christopher Morrow < > christopher.morrow@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:36 PM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) >> wrote: >> >>> This question has relevance to the ASPA method for route leak detection. >>> >>> Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a >>> non-transparent IXP AS B? >>> IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's >>> prefixes looks like this: A B C. >>> I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in the >>> middle between an ISP and its customer? >>> >>> >> it seems unlikely to me that an ISP would pick up a 'customer' (someone >> that pays them to transport packets) at an IXP fabric. >> Might it happen? sure? is it messy? yes! >> >> 1) that's probably a shared port >> 2) there are other folk feeding routes and packets into the mix >> 3) how many came through the 'customer' port (which you can't really know >> easily) vs other participants on the ix >> 4) what capacity planning could the 'customer' do here? (none, basically >> with respect to the remote ISP port) >> >> Your question might work also as: >> "ISP A has a customer C on a direct link in location Y. >> ISP A is present at IXP-Z, so is customer C, though they do not >> bilaterally peer (not do they interconnect at the IXP). >> ISP A can still see Customer C's routes through the IXP-Z Route Server." >> >> that seems plausible, but not a desired outcome for the ISP :) since they >> will be unlikely to collect pesos for the traffic >> which MAY pass across that interconnect. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> GROW mailing list >> GROW@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow >> > --000000000000567df505d9baccea Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 3:15 PM Robert= Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> = wrote:
Well I think the answer is - it depends.=C2=A0

= First IXP fabric can be used as pure L3 share LAN or can be used (and it is= often the case) as a p2p emulated VLAN over such L3 shared LAN.=C2=A0

Now if this is L3 shared LAN still customer and ISP ma= y peer directly and no third=C2=A0party traffic would be accepted at either= end.=C2=A0

If we talk about emulating L2 IXP fabr= ic becomes just an emulated circuit and from the perspective of routing it = a p2p interface.=C2=A0

Sure the other aspects of t= he IXP quality, port monitoring, oversubscription etc... always will apply = but there are ways to mitigate or handle those in real IXPs.=C2=A0


I don't dispute your= content here, except that Sriram's question was about seeing 'cust= omer routes via the RS'... which I think would obviate the emulation ex= amples you provided.
(well in a bunch of cases it would, you COUL= D hook up some tomfoolery to get this to work, but... that sounds complex a= nd prone to disaster)
=C2=A0
Best,
R.








On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 9:05 PM Christopher M= orrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, = Mar 8, 2022 at 2:36 PM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) <kotikalapudi.sriram= =3D40nist.go= v@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
This question has relevance to the ASPA method for route le= ak detection.

Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a non-transp= arent IXP AS B?
IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's pre= fixes looks like this:=C2=A0 A B C.
I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in the mi= ddle between an ISP and its customer?


it seems unlikely to me that an ISP would pick up a 'customer' (= someone that pays them to transport packets) at an IXP fabric.
Mi= ght it happen? sure? is it messy? yes!

1) that'= ;s probably a shared port
2) there are other folk feeding routes = and packets into the mix
3) how many came through the 'custom= er' port (which you can't really know easily) vs other participants= on the ix=C2=A0
4) what capacity planning could the 'custome= r' do here? (none, basically with respect to the remote ISP port)
=

Your question might work also as:
=C2=A0 "ISP A= has a customer C on a direct link in location Y.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IS= P A is present at IXP-Z, so is customer=C2=A0C, though they do not bilatera= lly peer (not do they interconnect at the IXP).
=C2=A0 ISP A can = still see Customer C's routes through the IXP-Z Route Server."
=
that seems plausible, but not a desired outcome for the ISP :) since th= ey will be unlikely to collect=C2=A0pesos for the traffic
which M= AY pass across that interconnect.
=C2=A0=C2=A0
_______________________________________________
GROW mailing list
GROW@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow
--000000000000567df505d9baccea-- From nobody Tue Mar 8 12:33:46 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BDBE3A170A for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:33:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zEP2ndWpn2pI for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:33:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vk1-xa30.google.com (mail-vk1-xa30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F41733A1709 for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 12:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vk1-xa30.google.com with SMTP id i43so163054vkd.12 for ; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 12:33:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=w+v18HPFnunaJk8GodX8KHFv4pg2QkeQUDPfxLnGbbA=; b=CZb3mQjALBbp2eJtUV1TeH2Vt9YjaeQ+mdi22nYXFUV81JDveJHGc6Xi2UMsUM3csq 7VJwi3LQTuOGYuXvHeuNia/0zJ8PIIvyLusMlxif5lL+B+oc9+9kqdxbVZ8VlPCK/tsn 5egF8shnNJWB46/0T/Yn15pMudcwzZ1lAtDI4lg13EhW7vfQ0iGyaQHD32D2TAfDn6ah 4RBnlYcgXxYkJI5o+7ixq/V4RBs4hoM8wiKcP0Lkv/SO7Bezp7Ph5+BKISZIwBaOZ7oK XwhO0jvB2vVii76OmVlXcrA7vF/fkZBMJBRR9aeFY+Qh1w2PnMPZF1ahupyljv5y0q3q ssVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=w+v18HPFnunaJk8GodX8KHFv4pg2QkeQUDPfxLnGbbA=; b=naYZu43DQxo7WRWIb1e5Dhk/f3gPZhxg4C1MXUSwblknXVu9/Qj6+O1KxZ38le/hPH F5LzrvG35832GEr4cut/DGeMMt3bRREXA6+jIceSwygS3CLHNFq9jOoRNx3+C3taqKWs vUNIm4Yjx+1JPztGw9GRj/bDX3n8lN+mDK+U2irw6UdmITut3xGMwcfM+i7htAZYlcyF 3B+AWe+hYARMlnRVRinKt+7qkCH7uqT4KHZKfYjlGASn9gLiR3SzYFn3TP9d0oWqdLzA nzslBIAsEVNboedC3sNAQEW1ZXEGJSpks28UgMtROvmmeI7ZAKKUJunzowX4asxXMILM eULg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530nhidivvpaLhfT9ds35KU1sBSrxpQqa3xhblEjU3sbjjK2T7Df qeky6sVykjieKzq5n+Al3zgk9BXnEy54d4lzOqVIKw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzy8AjqPjsEZnZqAjjxA+Ste8BxpsFILcBzHltUiDVCW34SGX3EFH3b+EtuM4lb9p2pzrcD/XJpri9RbQbJLfc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:12b1:b0:32d:7e4b:91b7 with SMTP id j17-20020a05612212b100b0032d7e4b91b7mr8467925vkp.18.1646771618233; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 12:33:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 21:34:01 +0100 Message-ID: To: Christopher Morrow Cc: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000054da0605d9bae5f6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:33:45 -0000 --00000000000054da0605d9bae5f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Right - but IMO route leaking can happen both in the Internet or in customer <- via IXP -> content provider interconnects. And in the latter case - especially for those with open peering policy - often going via RS. After all this is how route servers are mainly used today :) So both sides will be peering to IXP RS while IXP RS will (in most cases) not appear in the AS_PATH. Kind regards, R. On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 9:26 PM Christopher Morrow < christopher.morrow@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 3:15 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > >> Well I think the answer is - it depends. >> >> First IXP fabric can be used as pure L3 share LAN or can be used (and it >> is often the case) as a p2p emulated VLAN over such L3 shared LAN. >> >> Now if this is L3 shared LAN still customer and ISP may peer directly and >> no third party traffic would be accepted at either end. >> >> If we talk about emulating L2 IXP fabric becomes just an emulated circuit >> and from the perspective of routing it a p2p interface. >> >> Sure the other aspects of the IXP quality, port monitoring, >> oversubscription etc... always will apply but there are ways to mitigate or >> handle those in real IXPs. >> >> > I don't dispute your content here, except that Sriram's question was about > seeing 'customer routes via the RS'... which I think would obviate the > emulation examples you provided. > (well in a bunch of cases it would, you COULD hook up some tomfoolery to > get this to work, but... that sounds complex and prone to disaster) > > >> Best, >> R. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 9:05 PM Christopher Morrow < >> christopher.morrow@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:36 PM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) >>> wrote: >>> >>>> This question has relevance to the ASPA method for route leak detection. >>>> >>>> Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a >>>> non-transparent IXP AS B? >>>> IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's >>>> prefixes looks like this: A B C. >>>> I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in >>>> the middle between an ISP and its customer? >>>> >>>> >>> it seems unlikely to me that an ISP would pick up a 'customer' (someone >>> that pays them to transport packets) at an IXP fabric. >>> Might it happen? sure? is it messy? yes! >>> >>> 1) that's probably a shared port >>> 2) there are other folk feeding routes and packets into the mix >>> 3) how many came through the 'customer' port (which you can't really >>> know easily) vs other participants on the ix >>> 4) what capacity planning could the 'customer' do here? (none, basically >>> with respect to the remote ISP port) >>> >>> Your question might work also as: >>> "ISP A has a customer C on a direct link in location Y. >>> ISP A is present at IXP-Z, so is customer C, though they do not >>> bilaterally peer (not do they interconnect at the IXP). >>> ISP A can still see Customer C's routes through the IXP-Z Route >>> Server." >>> >>> that seems plausible, but not a desired outcome for the ISP :) since >>> they will be unlikely to collect pesos for the traffic >>> which MAY pass across that interconnect. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> GROW mailing list >>> GROW@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow >>> >> --00000000000054da0605d9bae5f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Right=C2=A0- but IMO route leaking can happ= en both in the Internet or in customer <- via IXP -> content provider= interconnects.=C2=A0

And in the latter case - especiall= y for those with open peering policy - often going via RS. After all this i= s how route servers are mainly=C2=A0used today :) So both sides will be pee= ring to IXP RS while IXP RS will (in most cases) not appear in the AS_PATH.= =C2=A0

Kind regards,
R.



On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 9:26 PM Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
<= div dir=3D"ltr">


<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 3:15 PM Robert = Raszuk <robert@ra= szuk.net> wrote:
Well I think the answer is - it depends.=C2=A0
First IXP fabric can be used as pure L3 share LAN or can be= used (and it is often the case) as a p2p emulated VLAN over such L3 shared= LAN.=C2=A0

Now if this is L3 shared LAN still cus= tomer and ISP may peer directly and no third=C2=A0party traffic would be ac= cepted at either end.=C2=A0

If we talk about emula= ting L2 IXP fabric becomes just an emulated circuit and from the perspectiv= e of routing it a p2p interface.=C2=A0

Sure the ot= her aspects of the IXP quality, port monitoring, oversubscription etc... al= ways will apply but there are ways to mitigate or handle those in real IXPs= .=C2=A0


I don= 9;t dispute your content here, except that Sriram's question was about = seeing 'customer routes via the RS'... which I think would obviate = the emulation examples you provided.
(well in a bunch of cases it= would, you COULD hook up some tomfoolery to get this to work, but... that = sounds complex and prone to disaster)
=C2=A0
Best,
R.








On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 9:05 = PM Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com> wrote:


On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:36 PM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) <kotik= alapudi.sriram=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
This question has relevance to the ASPA metho= d for route leak detection.

Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a non-transp= arent IXP AS B?
IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's pre= fixes looks like this:=C2=A0 A B C.
I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in the mi= ddle between an ISP and its customer?


it seems unlikely to me that an ISP would pick up a 'customer' (= someone that pays them to transport packets) at an IXP fabric.
Mi= ght it happen? sure? is it messy? yes!

1) that'= ;s probably a shared port
2) there are other folk feeding routes = and packets into the mix
3) how many came through the 'custom= er' port (which you can't really know easily) vs other participants= on the ix=C2=A0
4) what capacity planning could the 'custome= r' do here? (none, basically with respect to the remote ISP port)
=

Your question might work also as:
=C2=A0 "ISP A= has a customer C on a direct link in location Y.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IS= P A is present at IXP-Z, so is customer=C2=A0C, though they do not bilatera= lly peer (not do they interconnect at the IXP).
=C2=A0 ISP A can = still see Customer C's routes through the IXP-Z Route Server."
=
that seems plausible, but not a desired outcome for the ISP :) since th= ey will be unlikely to collect=C2=A0pesos for the traffic
which M= AY pass across that interconnect.
=C2=A0=C2=A0
_______________________________________________
GROW mailing list
GROW@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow
--00000000000054da0605d9bae5f6-- From nobody Tue Mar 8 13:28:20 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51E503A17DE; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 13:28:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5hikJwiOZhjk; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 13:28:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20F413A0EE3; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 13:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from crumpet.local (admin.ibn.ie [46.182.8.8]) by mail.netability.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F07089CEB1; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 21:28:10 +0000 (GMT) To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" Cc: "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" References: From: Nick Hilliard Message-ID: <0db7749f-66fd-5def-a8bb-3ee316cf2ca1@foobar.org> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 21:28:09 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.16; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 PostboxApp/7.0.54 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 21:28:18 -0000 Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) wrote on 08/03/2022 19:36: > This question has relevance to the ASPA method for route leak > detection. > > Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a > non-transparent IXP AS B? > IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's > prefixes looks like this: A B C. > I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in > the middle between an ISP and its customer? Almost all RS's are transparent these days. Usually IXPs go to lengths to ensure that the RS ASN doesn't appear in the AS path. Some organisations provide transit over IXPs, but it's a minority thing. It would be very peculiar if an organisation provided transit over an IXP via an RS. Some organisations provide transit to ASNs over a direct physical connection while maintain peering with their customer over an IXP port. Usually this happens by accident, but occasionally it can happen by design. The answer to your question is that it would be technically possible, but it would be so peculiar and stupid that it should be considered a mistake in the situations where it was intentional. In all other situations, it would be a leak. Generally it would be safe to assume that this sort of configuration was in error. Nick From nobody Tue Mar 8 13:30:42 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4973A17F2; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 13:30:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vgwOixxOng9P; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 13:30:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 334733A17E9; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 13:30:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id o22so292948qta.8; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 13:30:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LXnceGUyCoU6Lr6PuZvG7FT4CmQEHn6gzikqrx6U1G4=; b=ILCie6ezQPHqkxJ3H+Eh2Xcr+VJsw+uqgDd8CJcyTvisdpu9azQ5qJy3xYPl+d4E0G KMViBgOkgpRTQ2PeEBWnS0bAKpxDpNYVQ/KcHXHAy9eO/0B11D0dhEkWMihEKZYA7cU0 klNkUjeRjRD91xenEPbx0ggRI0ek9md9L54xAKjG3pGuawZDhTiUVbUh4YfPxOex8ZR7 9v/F5vdUkDNG1VfKaeZmCMlrT+MW86VbjbO/TLrM01RO2D+o5/EcG9yiOItwstT7pAGs znPp25Hsk++0LLJZiXMSzcOaR7r9gRHqosmmmpf34eRVHjRZ7rPtywcLMkvK/I0KVd/Q TOwQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LXnceGUyCoU6Lr6PuZvG7FT4CmQEHn6gzikqrx6U1G4=; b=IFTbXHGDKnS+cY7+GsntmO3k1W3audvYS6/FzGxEJP9t1mn4saMkIoeunFuLfZ/z6q dGIWXdUJoIUo/vWRb+TWQm3Ah2JxmbP7FacvkNLB9EnPeIzo76MmvNT1eZwf3avZK7ZI pe2pK57CjAtJI9NvFgFjM89yN11MBNGhqsxcDTa7i6tUAK/qQwrGbGL9yUCxJ/Gcj4Vt 5dpb1gnTOh+zsdD+XRcnLv5VbiVnyjIVEnf8+uy457jegp1trVBfUAxs0UdN7TMWfNSY ECokD8FgTrmRZUG6q7PuCBZ67ucKULWRmCLFAx1SJ4o4cXUKObwkhKonGg7pm/VbeiJ4 44dA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531gK2GKdelKIh+YpluHh1vVQTUlReDH7ODZUHLjagnxETv6zhFu tCQ6vhEOdLSPoB2EbzmoB2z1BdgiK06M538U/c8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx2qQuOX7ionvWoLZHfpY5C9Rym/pGqk+F6DacbcR0CGG7+QslobdQXcxXwYVasJwoSF8IeXKrFBDfXiNP9RpY= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5dc8:0:b0:2de:61eb:331f with SMTP id e8-20020ac85dc8000000b002de61eb331fmr15450804qtx.2.1646775034729; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 13:30:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Christopher Morrow Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 16:30:23 -0500 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f8599705d9bbb073" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 21:30:41 -0000 --000000000000f8599705d9bbb073 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 3:33 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Right - but IMO route leaking can happen both in the Internet or in > customer <- via IXP -> content provider interconnects. > > And in the latter case - especially for those with open peering policy - > often going via RS. After all this is how route servers are mainly used > today :) So both sides will be peering to IXP RS while IXP RS will (in most > cases) not appear in the AS_PATH. > > > sure! that was my re-wording of sriram's question, effectively. (or I think that was the re-wording!) > > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 9:26 PM Christopher Morrow < > christopher.morrow@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 3:15 PM Robert Raszuk wrote: >> >>> Well I think the answer is - it depends. >>> >>> First IXP fabric can be used as pure L3 share LAN or can be used (and it >>> is often the case) as a p2p emulated VLAN over such L3 shared LAN. >>> >>> Now if this is L3 shared LAN still customer and ISP may peer directly >>> and no third party traffic would be accepted at either end. >>> >>> If we talk about emulating L2 IXP fabric becomes just an emulated >>> circuit and from the perspective of routing it a p2p interface. >>> >>> Sure the other aspects of the IXP quality, port monitoring, >>> oversubscription etc... always will apply but there are ways to mitigate or >>> handle those in real IXPs. >>> >>> >> I don't dispute your content here, except that Sriram's question was >> about seeing 'customer routes via the RS'... which I think would obviate >> the emulation examples you provided. >> (well in a bunch of cases it would, you COULD hook up some tomfoolery to >> get this to work, but... that sounds complex and prone to disaster) >> >> >>> Best, >>> R. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 9:05 PM Christopher Morrow < >>> christopher.morrow@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:36 PM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> This question has relevance to the ASPA method for route leak >>>>> detection. >>>>> >>>>> Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a >>>>> non-transparent IXP AS B? >>>>> IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's >>>>> prefixes looks like this: A B C. >>>>> I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in >>>>> the middle between an ISP and its customer? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> it seems unlikely to me that an ISP would pick up a 'customer' (someone >>>> that pays them to transport packets) at an IXP fabric. >>>> Might it happen? sure? is it messy? yes! >>>> >>>> 1) that's probably a shared port >>>> 2) there are other folk feeding routes and packets into the mix >>>> 3) how many came through the 'customer' port (which you can't really >>>> know easily) vs other participants on the ix >>>> 4) what capacity planning could the 'customer' do here? (none, >>>> basically with respect to the remote ISP port) >>>> >>>> Your question might work also as: >>>> "ISP A has a customer C on a direct link in location Y. >>>> ISP A is present at IXP-Z, so is customer C, though they do not >>>> bilaterally peer (not do they interconnect at the IXP). >>>> ISP A can still see Customer C's routes through the IXP-Z Route >>>> Server." >>>> >>>> that seems plausible, but not a desired outcome for the ISP :) since >>>> they will be unlikely to collect pesos for the traffic >>>> which MAY pass across that interconnect. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> GROW mailing list >>>> GROW@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow >>>> >>> --000000000000f8599705d9bbb073 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 3:33 PM Robert= Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> = wrote:

Right=C2=A0- but IMO route leaking can happen both = in the Internet or in customer <- via IXP -> content provider interco= nnects.=C2=A0

And in the latter case - especially for th= ose with open peering policy - often going via RS. After all this is how ro= ute servers are mainly=C2=A0used today :) So both sides will be peering to = IXP RS while IXP RS will (in most cases) not appear in the AS_PATH.=C2=A0



su= re! that was my re-wording of sriram's question, effectively. (or I thi= nk that was the re-wording!)
=C2=A0

=
On Tue= , Mar 8, 2022 at 9:26 PM Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com>= wrote:


On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 3:15 PM Robert Raszuk = <robert@raszuk.ne= t> wrote:
Well I think the answer is - it depends.=C2=A0

First IXP fabric can be used as pure L3 share LAN or can be used (= and it is often the case) as a p2p emulated VLAN over such L3 shared LAN.= =C2=A0

Now if this is L3 shared LAN still customer= and ISP may peer directly and no third=C2=A0party traffic would be accepte= d at either end.=C2=A0

If we talk about emulating = L2 IXP fabric becomes just an emulated circuit and from the perspective of = routing it a p2p interface.=C2=A0

Sure the other a= spects of the IXP quality, port monitoring, oversubscription etc... always = will apply but there are ways to mitigate or handle those in real IXPs.=C2= =A0


I don't = dispute your content here, except that Sriram's question was about seei= ng 'customer routes via the RS'... which I think would obviate the = emulation examples you provided.
(well in a bunch of cases it wou= ld, you COULD hook up some tomfoolery to get this to work, but... that soun= ds complex and prone to disaster)
=C2=A0
Best,
R.




=




On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 9:05 PM= Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com> wrote:


On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:36 PM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) <kotikal= apudi.sriram=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
This question has relevance to the ASPA method = for route leak detection.

Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a non-transp= arent IXP AS B?
IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's pre= fixes looks like this:=C2=A0 A B C.
I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in the mi= ddle between an ISP and its customer?


it seems unlikely to me that an ISP would pick up a 'customer' (= someone that pays them to transport packets) at an IXP fabric.
Mi= ght it happen? sure? is it messy? yes!

1) that'= ;s probably a shared port
2) there are other folk feeding routes = and packets into the mix
3) how many came through the 'custom= er' port (which you can't really know easily) vs other participants= on the ix=C2=A0
4) what capacity planning could the 'custome= r' do here? (none, basically with respect to the remote ISP port)
=

Your question might work also as:
=C2=A0 "ISP A= has a customer C on a direct link in location Y.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IS= P A is present at IXP-Z, so is customer=C2=A0C, though they do not bilatera= lly peer (not do they interconnect at the IXP).
=C2=A0 ISP A can = still see Customer C's routes through the IXP-Z Route Server."
=
that seems plausible, but not a desired outcome for the ISP :) since th= ey will be unlikely to collect=C2=A0pesos for the traffic
which M= AY pass across that interconnect.
=C2=A0=C2=A0
_______________________________________________
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GROW@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow
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charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 03/08, Christopher Morrow wrote: > On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 2:36 PM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) > wrote: >=20 > > This question has relevance to the ASPA method for route leak detection. > > > > Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a > > non-transparent IXP AS B? > > IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's > > prefixes looks like this: A B C. > > I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in the > > middle between an ISP and its customer? > > > > > it seems unlikely to me that an ISP would pick up a 'customer' (someone > that pays them to transport packets) at an IXP fabric. > Might it happen? sure? is it messy? yes! >=20 I know of several transit providers that will allow customers to use an IXP as a kind of virtual access circuit (which itself is a poor idea), but I would be *very* surprised if any of them allow RS peerings to be the control plane interconnection (intentionally, at least). If the underlying question is "should the ASPA path validation algorithm have a corner case that accommodates this?", that is a very, very firm "no" from me! Cheers, Ben --dwjegeeqldshwhhs Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEadkaB2uV5dm5UllaOkYk/rSLaGAFAmInzPoACgkQOkYk/rSL aGAIKQ/+J+HQaxc2yZ3vQZBC6ZUiqN8gTuCN4PEx+VhKDx5khGHwmjZ3kLTNX4Iy SSMc/v/WNIsl5cy/x8TO6IJnUtGJH4oRowgrc/KwxP421ieKSwybnMm2uheuSPOv xnm/ocWc7DvvF1q9DAXYwZc7xeXe2PHzvHp+APZ6cwS/PbM7yxLA/zxCvcSm1iVn 0UJisZ39Fa88I7ETn8C4mr74nampexzEIlno/cheicxQnWOfi73/izOIYy203HQx oUSqDvW1vF79TS4smJBfIwVyAa3AuAc9IV7QtpD7KdlzUmxwcnjU5KDr3CzSwhPd AjIP+Rp0RRX0s4u1XC605J/EzQKThjdAcjgOAEQMp2f2Pjymj/jobL5UT6Seje8w FxEwTnsjkF9nzUPrIDVxzpsYUdsWwiJyqZbTDaWYbD1eluJRojEXc8F9g4EWHdDj TcXM4iMCjGRZS2M1hOdDPr9PtvX5DvD/1Fhv4wfLh003858yhhJEtq0hdSYroaBK XNdxNQjmLltPn55OaCwUVUcR51VVoR4boPpLtlWMle+CTvOgqpAdnsZ41S3FsVOZ WVg7RLEJDmp0+THhQQ/SXURezAmh5n9qtTKQt0wsbge2NE+x48zr998Iyh0n6yfF UsQkxEGvsY3zcnQsoNkDp7WbEvs2NdVw+08wOMXLHeiGm6S+9n4= =HyzQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dwjegeeqldshwhhs-- From nobody Tue Mar 8 15:05:57 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA7383A1B3D; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 15:05:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ROeuhd9kXVKO; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 15:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86E833A1B3F; Tue, 8 Mar 2022 15:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1nRitp-000PWl-OU; Tue, 08 Mar 2022 23:05:49 +0000 Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 15:05:48 -0800 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Ben Maddison Cc: Christopher Morrow , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "grow@ietf.org" , "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" In-Reply-To: <20220308213907.nwb6oe7qwixattga@benm-laptop> References: <20220308213907.nwb6oe7qwixattga@benm-laptop> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/26.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2022 23:05:56 -0000 > If the underlying question is "should the ASPA path validation > algorithm have a corner case that accommodates this?", that is a > very, very firm "no" from me! aol From nobody Wed Mar 9 08:39:57 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596623A0D63; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 08:39:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iTTIv_jLyqpo; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 08:39:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3338F3A0D61; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 08:39:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1nRzLp-000WLO-Uw; Wed, 09 Mar 2022 16:39:50 +0000 Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2022 08:39:49 -0800 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: SIDR Operations WG , GMO Crops User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/26.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2022 16:39:55 -0000 >> If the underlying question is "should the ASPA path validation >> algorithm have a corner case that accommodates this?", that is a >> very, very firm "no" from me! > > aol opologies, it seems i used an american idiom, and an antique one at that. a few folk were brave enough to ask, so ... tl;dr: precursor of +1 long, and probably somewhat incorrect, answer in the spirit of trying to keep net cultural history alive. someone better at net cultural history than i can probably point you to historical documents. back in the '80s, there were two large walled gardens of dial-up users, America Online (AOL) and CompuServe. when the pressure of the internet's success started forcing their gates, the first breach was gateways to the usenet. aol citizens were over enthusiastic eager beavers known for "meee tooo!" so the first shorthand for "me too" became "aol." i am not sure when "+1" came in, but a decade or so later. maybe folk had to learn to count first. along a similar vein, the precursor to the SWAT attack was having a truckload of compuserve install cd-roms sent to someone's home. i am not sure it was actually done, or was just apocrypha. randy From nobody Wed Mar 9 19:31:37 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B8FB3A1004; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR09MB8142.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 47502122-b0f0-44df-c36f-08da0247c660 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Mar 2022 03:40:51.9729 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR09MB8318 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 03:41:01 -0000 Ben, >I know of several transit providers that will allow customers to use an IX= P as a kind of virtual access circuit (which itself is a poor idea), but I = would be *very* surprised if any of them allow RS peerings to be the contro= l plane interconnection (intentionally, at least). Good. Thanks for that insight. Consistent with what Nick and others observe= d. >If the underlying question is "should the ASPA path validation algorithm h= ave a corner case that accommodates this?", that is a very, very firm "no" = from me! No. I didn't have that question or idea in mind. But see a couple of other new questions I asked in my reply to Nick. Thank you. Sriram From nobody Thu Mar 10 01:41:22 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B22D03A1381 for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 01:41:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fastly.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uFMUH55dnpUq for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 01:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ej1-x636.google.com (mail-ej1-x636.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::636]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20F193A1385 for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 01:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ej1-x636.google.com with SMTP id qa43so10661916ejc.12 for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 01:41:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastly.com; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mime-version:content-disposition; bh=S1aWsDB6qUCQxD0tMciDESDmf+zzCYZkO+U0UgPINWM=; b=KP6SzN92HDu6jbceqEQqrrB3CKpJ4g/qzhSX8KYP8PSZ/Sr/4wrmCHpOhCmX54y3nV gy0J08mHzgpDyh+edWyPmUH7m4eE/RIIKnoN3IYGuFNFshyZ7n+uJ+znlEtZqTLrSrGi ggT8nF4WCzFzi29hWiNsaBCuvT8Nnx2E8bROE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mime-version :content-disposition; bh=S1aWsDB6qUCQxD0tMciDESDmf+zzCYZkO+U0UgPINWM=; b=YwW9CtrrOtn4t92ThYg6Tz+8IzaNtUmdLj5P1SFeOzR4a80RSqglyHQA8g66w4Vl0J 2NpCgs7QlfcYDU9vXkCvZqFPueTJ3EidEUuyFjUut2+I6+seu0Osik5xKhtVNixSeMt/ 4yuO7wONw8y0+8FWwyL/WxkxYCkQXXd63lwQuAJ1Fl3vqpPnNYiGYHFJGWViid0Ani6P 1GsUVaj9PSPgKaonIDAK2+cZWt6zzBi606bILzedtTXtbtjILjVRTrV/fJCsO6XLbuD3 I1F6LjXNOWeXEy0+/NBL+MiVZJ4KJYGC6a0mMSXrR+DzIt3HiKxIJ851Rdk0k0jvgu2y YYeg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532uqWaQS9Re/lHRyGdvmDXE1UUkW8XfL11fiAtoYg8sJaFapUFM ZgKf37FME3S/Yb29sloO7RE1QGBn7r54vxqornBQpGYg0UfJyeXdOqdChVCm0/6KLruYrdfFVi6 TsgeyfIbzsF0Ejj6AV9viXzJKP2+tq35vk+4vUg/0AcXFHoBGkys= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzJV9K+OajAB8GLX1R1FePjpQRZJuqcX97Y4TJNQNfibFZIBdCFoQiJjA22DPDc3yhrvcVtaw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3da8:b0:6da:9e3a:b69 with SMTP id he40-20020a1709073da800b006da9e3a0b69mr3442943ejc.76.1646905272720; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 01:41:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from snel ([2a10:3781:276:2:16f6:d8ff:fe47:2eb7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f26-20020a50ee9a000000b004160c295356sm1799330edr.5.2022.03.10.01.41.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 10 Mar 2022 01:41:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 10:41:10 +0100 From: Job Snijders To: grow@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: [GROW] IETF 113 GROW meeting agenda (draft) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:41:20 -0000 Hi all, Here is the current draft GROW @ IETF 113 agenda: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/agenda-113-grow-00.txt Please let the chairs know if you'd also like to contribute agenda items. Kind regards, Job & Chris From nobody Thu Mar 10 05:58:14 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E04E63A0FFD for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 05:58:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.938 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.938 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WL9cNzy77_uu for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 05:58:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A77D43A0FFF for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 05:58:06 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.107.120.176; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Job Snijders'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 08:57:54 -0500 Message-ID: <00a601d83486$d7344a60$859cdf20$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGGRfuMy7MzdAguRH1PfFZOm0O/J61cgQtA Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] IETF 113 GROW meeting agenda (draft) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 13:58:11 -0000 Job and Chris: [WG chair hat on] Did you receive my request on behalf of IDR WG on VPN Prefix limits on the grow email list? Will you be asking this question at IETF 113? [WG chair hat off] [WG participant hat on] I'm personally pleased to see an inbound prefix limit Proposal at IDR. Thank you, Sue -----Original Message----- From: GROW [mailto:grow-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Job Snijders Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2022 4:41 AM To: grow@ietf.org Subject: [GROW] IETF 113 GROW meeting agenda (draft) Hi all, Here is the current draft GROW @ IETF 113 agenda: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/agenda-113-grow-00.txt Please let the chairs know if you'd also like to contribute agenda items. Kind regards, Job & Chris _______________________________________________ GROW mailing list GROW@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow From nobody Thu Mar 10 09:20:27 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41A63A131B; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 14:48:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.906 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9bKdXwN83dxe; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 14:48:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (mail.gintest.ntt.net [128.241.192.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2488F3A12EB; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 14:47:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [165.254.197.203] (unknown [IPv6:2001:418:1401:80::1001]) by mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8FBFEEE0148; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 22:47:50 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.56.21121100 Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 23:47:43 +0100 From: Camilo Cardona To: "Tim Evens (tievens)" , Camilo Cardona CC: "grow-chairs@ietf.org" , "grow@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang References: <164664670607.9161.10011036362657422669@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3729541671_1812849015" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:20:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 22:48:19 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3729541671_1812849015 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Tim! =20 We will consider your points for next version, together with the recommenda= tions from Jeffrey. =20 Camilo =20 From: "Tim Evens (tievens)" Date: Monday, 7 March 2022 at 19:05 To: Camilo Cardona , Camilo Cardona Cc: "grow-chairs@ietf.org" , "grow@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-y= ang =20 =20 // Connection, missing tcp tuning params // like keep-alives, segment sizes, etc. =20 TCP keep-alives SHOULD be enabled by default if possible. The ability to tu= ne them is also important. Window sizes have been a challenge over higher l= atency BMP sessions. We should be able to adjust/configure scaling/etc. =20 =20 In addition to TCP tuning, I do like the ability to configure an initiation= delay as well as backoff timers. If the BMP session is flapping, then at s= ome point it should backoff and wait a little longer. =20 =20 Thanks, Tim =20 =20 On 3/7/22, 2:08 AM, "GROW" wrote: =20 Hi Grow, We just submitted a new draft proposing a yang module for configuring and m= anaging BMP on a device. It would be nice to get some comments, observations, etc. Grow Chairs, will it be possible to get a 5 minute slot in the next session= to give an overview of this module? Thanks, Camilo Cardona >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/22, 10:51, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Camilo Cardona and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang > Revision: 01 > Title: BMP YANG Module > Document date: 2022-03-07 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 14 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-ya= ng-01.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-y= ang/ > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cptb-grow-= bmp-yang > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cptb-grow-bmp-= yang-01 >=20 > Abstract: > This document proposes a YANG module for BMP (BGP Monitoring > Protocol) configuration and monitoring. A complementary RPC trigge= rs > a refresh of the session of a BMP station. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ GROW mailing list GROW@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow --B_3729541671_1812849015 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Tim!

 

= We will consider your points for next version, together with the recommendat= ions from Jeffrey.

=  

Camilo<= /o:p>

 

From: <= /b>"Tim Evens (ti= evens)" <tievens@cisco.com>
Date: Monday, 7 March 2022 = at 19:05
To: Camilo Cardona <juancamilo.cardona@imdea.org>, = Camilo Cardona <camilo@gin.ntt.net>
Cc: "grow-chairs@ie= tf.org" <grow-chairs@ietf.org>, "grow@ietf.org" <gro= w@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP= - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang

 

 =

        =    // Connection, missing tcp tuning params

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>           // li= ke keep-alives, segment sizes, etc.

=  

TCP keep-alives SHOULD be enabled by default if possible. The ability t= o tune them is also important.  Window sizes have been a challenge over= higher latency BMP sessions. We should be able to adjust/configure scaling/= etc. 

&n= bsp;

In addition to TCP = tuning, I do like the ability to configure an initiation delay as well as ba= ckoff timers.  If the BMP session is flapping, then at some point it sh= ould backoff and wait a little longer. 

 

Thanks,

Tim

 =

 

On = 3/7/22, 2:08 AM, "GROW" <grow-bounces@ietf.org> wrote:<= /o:p>

 

Hi Grow,

We just submitted a new draft p= roposing a yang module for configuring and managing BMP on a device.

= It would be nice to get some comments, observations, etc.

Grow Chairs= , will it be possible to get a 5 minute slot in the next session to give an = overview of this module?

Thanks,
Camilo Cardona



>= ;
> =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/22, 10:51, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>
>
>   = A new version of I-D, draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt
>  &n= bsp; has been successfully submitted by Camilo Cardona and posted to the
= >    IETF repository.
>
>    N= ame:            =   draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang
>    Revision:  01=
>    Title:       &= nbsp;     BMP YANG Module
>    Docu= ment date:     2022-03-07
>    Grou= p:             I= ndividual Submission
>    Pages:    = ;         14
>  &nbs= p; URL:            http= s://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt
> = ;   Status:         https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang/
>    = Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/= html/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang
>    Diff:  = ;         https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?u= rl2=3Ddraft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01
>
>    Abstr= act:
>       This document proposes a YA= NG module for BMP (BGP Monitoring
>      = ; Protocol) configuration and monitoring.  A complementary RPC triggers=
>       a refresh of the session of a B= MP station.
>
>
>
>
>    Th= e IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
>

______________= _________________________________
GROW mailing list
GROW@ietf.org
<= a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow">https://www.ietf.org/mai= lman/listinfo/grow

--B_3729541671_1812849015-- From nobody Thu Mar 10 09:20:42 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F1D3A0CCB; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 14:59:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.908 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zBaLOHr5j12Z; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 14:59:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net [128.241.192.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8736E3A0028; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 14:59:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [165.254.197.203] (unknown [IPv6:2001:418:1401:80::1001]) by mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A338BEE02FD; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 22:59:08 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.56.21121100 Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 23:59:01 +0100 From: Camilo Cardona To: Jeffrey Haas , Camilo Cardona CC: , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang References: <164664670607.9161.10011036362657422669@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> <326A574B-E666-4AA3-8E37-0C21998B1275@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <326A574B-E666-4AA3-8E37-0C21998B1275@pfrc.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:20:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 22:59:17 -0000 Hello Jeffrey, Thanks for your comments, some answers inline: =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/22, 22:32, "Jeffrey Haas" wrote: Camilo, A few quick notes from an eyeball review of the draft: You probably care about what's going on for the tcp yang module. I've = prodded that item in a separate response. JCC: Ack! We will look at that. Are you planning to include that also in th= e BGP one? For your connections, just put in the full 4-tuple; i.e. local-port. JCC: We are missing that local port, ack. For your address family list, perhaps consider the BGP yang identity af= i-safi-type. We're hoping that as the bgp-yang work wraps up we'll have the= expected types in a common registry that can be extensibly maintained. I s= ee you're using this for the "name" for address-family filters. JCC: We do reference the BGP one for AFIs, don=E2=80=99t we? Let us know where w= e are missing that reference as the idea is indeed to leverage the BGP model= as much as possible. For your "bmp_peer_types", consider having it be an identity. They're = easy to maintain in the yang language, while enumerations tend to require a = fully model update. JCC: Also here, please check that "peer" is already an union between the re= mote-address of the BGP model, the peer-type of the same model, and the bmp = one. We added the last one because we couldn=E2=80=99t find a way of signaling "AL= L", and we wanted to be explicit, but we can check other options. How were you planning on monitoring other network-instances? E.g. the = ribs for vrf-X? JCC: My na=C3=AFve answer would be to place it under the network-instance that = it corresponds, such as the BGP model does, but I am sure there are tons of = caveats to explore. Consider moving your action to be a per-station action. See for exampl= e the actions in the bgp yang model. JCC: The action currently points to a single station. Maybe I am misunderst= anding your observation here though. -- Jeff > On Mar 7, 2022, at 5:06 AM, Camilo Cardona wrote: >=20 > Hi Grow, >=20 > We just submitted a new draft proposing a yang module for configuring= and managing BMP on a device. >=20 > It would be nice to get some comments, observations, etc. >=20 > Grow Chairs, will it be possible to get a 5 minute slot in the next s= ession to give an overview of this module? >=20 > Thanks, > Camilo Cardona >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/22, 10:51, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> A new version of I-D, draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Camilo Cardona and posted to th= e >> IETF repository. >>=20 >> Name: draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang >> Revision: 01 >> Title: BMP YANG Module >> Document date: 2022-03-07 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 14 >> URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-cptb-grow-bm= p-yang-01.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cptb-grow-b= mp-yang/ >> Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cptb-g= row-bmp-yang >> Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cptb-grow-= bmp-yang-01 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> This document proposes a YANG module for BMP (BGP Monitoring >> Protocol) configuration and monitoring. A complementary RPC tr= iggers >> a refresh of the session of a BMP station. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF Secretariat >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow From nobody Thu Mar 10 15:12:02 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46413A07B7; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 15:12:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T0rrQjjHqvW8; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 15:11:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [46.182.8.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DABDF3A07D4; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 15:11:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from crumpet.local (admin.ibn.ie [46.182.8.8]) by mail.netability.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8FBB79CC2D; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 23:11:49 +0000 (GMT) To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" Cc: "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" References: <0db7749f-66fd-5def-a8bb-3ee316cf2ca1@foobar.org> From: Nick Hilliard Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 23:11:47 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.16; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 PostboxApp/7.0.54 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 23:12:01 -0000 Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) wrote on 10/03/2022 03:31: > Nick and all, > > Thank you. What you all shared/discussed is very useful info. >> Almost all RS's are transparent these days. Usually IXPs go to >> lengths to ensure that the RS ASN doesn't appear in the AS path. > Good to know that. Well, that means there can be an occasional RS > that is non-transparent. When there is a non-transparent RS, could > there be big ISPs (Tier-1, Tier-2) present there as RS-clients? I would seriously doubt it. There are some "Tier 1" and "Tier 2" providers who peer using route servers at IXPs, but it's a bit unusual (and entertaining to hear them strenuously denying that this ever happens). Non-transparent RS's were used until a couple of years ago but I'm not aware of any left at this point. Even when non-transparent RS's were more widespread, I would have expected the intersection of these two groups to be null, and that if there were an intersection, the Tier1/Tier2 providers would not be upset if those paths were dropped / marked as invalid. > The ASPA verification draft treats the relationship of RS to > RS-client as similar to that of Provider to Customer. Seems > reasonable? The AS of an RS client includes the RS's AS in its ASPA > as a "Provider". yes, this is reasonable. Nick From prvs=062d6cf8c=rmosher@amazon.com Thu Mar 10 18:37:45 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA6D3A1196; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 18:37:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.608 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.608 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazon.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HqFR5_MUXfnj; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 18:37:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fw-6001.amazon.com (smtp-fw-6001.amazon.com [52.95.48.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3969B3A116C; Thu, 10 Mar 2022 18:37:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=amazon.com; i=@amazon.com; q=dns/txt; s=amazon201209; t=1646966261; x=1678502261; h=from:to:cc:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject; bh=WZ+UMD8nBZC4Y32PRLaem7pcJ+iiGd/XrD6hRkuaD14=; b=MMOZzvy/Y4BbyIvAdxJG9/c3dpNUwsN8BiRzcBAHJnNcoQS++8d9e/Gb S/BAgO8UNHHBGP8LmH5J3UteoKhv+bZyLwJ/ruLWdgIFFJ0TOZkt8jIr7 3bAH7+WpW6DIiqEfEMDbb6nQHQTdDjd+xgk4dxxJzPF39X1TgMP7v8AiO k=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.90,172,1643673600"; d="scan'208";a="185113092" Thread-Topic: [Sidrops] [GROW] IXP Route Server question Received: from iad12-co-svc-p1-lb1-vlan3.amazon.com (HELO email-inbound-relay-iad-1e-8be8ed69.us-east-1.amazon.com) ([10.43.8.6]) by smtp-border-fw-6001.iad6.amazon.com with ESMTP; 11 Mar 2022 02:37:30 +0000 Received: from EX13MTAUEE002.ant.amazon.com (iad12-ws-svc-p26-lb9-vlan3.iad.amazon.com [10.40.163.38]) by email-inbound-relay-iad-1e-8be8ed69.us-east-1.amazon.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69F4AC0A20; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 02:37:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from EX13D14UEE003.ant.amazon.com (10.43.62.11) by EX13MTAUEE002.ant.amazon.com (10.43.62.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.28; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 02:37:27 +0000 Received: from EX13D14UEE003.ant.amazon.com (10.43.62.11) by EX13D14UEE003.ant.amazon.com (10.43.62.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.32; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 02:37:27 +0000 Received: from EX13D14UEE003.ant.amazon.com ([10.43.62.11]) by EX13D14UEE003.ant.amazon.com ([10.43.62.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.033; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 02:37:27 +0000 From: "Mosher, Rob" To: Nick Hilliard , "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" CC: "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" Thread-Index: AQHYMzOTj7J0F5wxK0qmWvLm6zmdXay3+DyAgAFJy4CAADcGgA== Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 02:37:27 +0000 Message-ID: <5665d2c20e4c45f0acfa55fa08987247@EX13D14UEE003.ant.amazon.com> References: <0db7749f-66fd-5def-a8bb-3ee316cf2ca1@foobar.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.43.62.53] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 20:53:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 02:43:23 -0000 HKIX inserts their ASN 4635 in the path, and they're quite large. Having c= onnected to route servers on hundreds of exchanges, this is the only one th= at I can think of that still does this.=20 https://www.hkix.net/hkix/route-server.htm https://bgp.he.net/AS4635 -rm -----Original Message----- From: Sidrops On Behalf Of Nick Hilliard Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2022 6:12 PM To: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) Cc: grow@ietf.org; sidrops@ietf.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [Sidrops] [GROW] IXP Route Server question CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not cli= ck links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the= content is safe. CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not cli= ck links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the= content is safe. Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) wrote on 10/03/2022 03:31: > Nick and all, > > Thank you. What you all shared/discussed is very useful info. >> Almost all RS's are transparent these days. Usually IXPs go to=20 >> lengths to ensure that the RS ASN doesn't appear in the AS path. > Good to know that. Well, that means there can be an occasional RS that=20 > is non-transparent. When there is a non-transparent RS, could there be=20 > big ISPs (Tier-1, Tier-2) present there as RS-clients? I would seriously doubt it. There are some "Tier 1" and "Tier 2" providers who peer using route servers at IXPs, but it's a bit unusual (and= entertaining to hear them strenuously denying that this ever happens). Non-transparent RS's were used until a couple of years ago but I'm not awar= e of any left at this point. Even when non-transparent RS's were more wides= pread, I would have expected the intersection of these two groups to be nul= l, and that if there were an intersection, the Tier1/Tier2 providers would not be upset if those paths were dropped / mark= ed as invalid. > The ASPA verification draft treats the relationship of RS to RS-client=20 > as similar to that of Provider to Customer. Seems reasonable? The AS=20 > of an RS client includes the RS's AS in its ASPA as a "Provider". yes, this is reasonable. 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charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sriram, On 03/10, Nick Hilliard wrote: > Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) wrote on 10/03/2022 03:31: [...] > > The ASPA verification draft treats the relationship of RS to > > RS-client as similar to that of Provider to Customer. Seems > > reasonable? The AS of an RS client includes the RS's AS in its ASPA > > as a "Provider". >=20 > yes, this is reasonable. >=20 Essential, I would think: how could a far end relying party know that an AS in the middle of a received AS_PATH is a non-transparent IXP RS in order to apply any other treatment? A special mark in the ASPA itself perhaps, but yuk ;-) Cheers, Ben --u2uyvszxmrvriw2w Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEadkaB2uV5dm5UllaOkYk/rSLaGAFAmIq+NsACgkQOkYk/rSL aGATCQ/+PbybgFh+7tgI01mYtT2g2qWe8GRry2bI0cWE1SGk8OXCOkd5AAHYCx4U ejMxpjg0Npk8wec/Ew8NECUhZmb/KpldZ70MtZtWymVaZZ6LEf8M3EKYS7D2aRM/ 2zG1Oi0scVxOTgGcP7LFJKWkYpluYbxAh+4bNCjC1Bls3/IsrxxaXJNulViFOYnX 2AJVrBkGZUup16RceV6l1O+zRxE89swAjljKCvn8g/+0xFOmkY9saqrENMM/xKSG fvx0cp82vOvaXMxIh5ZGN/ye4xSGVakmeGd5z4PC9QayXr4r4T9g2vlaEVmwEDt9 vh1nMzESe5nMCdVBmN8MR/GmyWrZjY9N4mMFrs8XaHqnzvjvMCSf2IdWaXz0egAv 7iwQMv3XqFJ8yLlv7/JM1ZpBmcRAPYFQ8KpEUXQqBN6cNt3SHgqqV8XDVpzkPFWH f9crtw840dXyiHRC0xAiWjCRphIQbTECC9cqIrX3p3BbD5qkXSgJIZlNYPHFzjvM wFgOfrTL0I3pG5MJyXDYvc3wvC3FfTtcDQM3Urdq6vK8b7SzkOrnIGjpvJYoyBuE SZPVrX79oh9z4DN5F6jtjVPgfuk3enfcOdQUwwFFML/cxN/piFg0Un7eAalQ0auB Nmf+NiiR9j/1WISmjWmcWuICha4pPfEz36ppDl5En6DY7zluP0M= =uBWs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u2uyvszxmrvriw2w-- From nobody Fri Mar 11 08:20:49 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FF853A040B; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR09MB8142.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1711f5db-1cc2-45b7-b97e-08da037b1467 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Mar 2022 16:20:38.3299 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR09MB8574 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 16:20:48 -0000 Sounds good. Thank you so much for the discussions and info. Sriram=20 -----Original Message----- From: Ben Maddison =20 Sent: Friday, March 11, 2022 2:23 AM To: Nick Hilliard Cc: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) ; grow@ietf.or= g; sidrops@ietf.org Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question Hi Sriram, On 03/10, Nick Hilliard wrote: > Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) wrote on 10/03/2022 03:31: [...] > > The ASPA verification draft treats the relationship of RS to=20 > > RS-client as similar to that of Provider to Customer. Seems=20 > > reasonable? The AS of an RS client includes the RS's AS in its ASPA=20 > > as a "Provider". >=20 > yes, this is reasonable. >=20 Essential, I would think: how could a far end relying party know that an AS= in the middle of a received AS_PATH is a non-transparent IXP RS in order t= o apply any other treatment? A special mark in the ASPA itself perhaps, but yuk ;-) Cheers, Ben From nobody Fri Mar 11 08:44:00 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B773A0889; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 08:43:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nKJrDTr2EXT2; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 08:43:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR04-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-vi1eur04on0707.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe0e::707]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A7A63A08A6; 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Fri, 11 Mar 2022 16:43:48 +0000 From: tom petch To: Camilo Cardona , Camilo Cardona CC: "grow-chairs@ietf.org" , "grow@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang Thread-Index: AQHYMgsw0cPXTlqQB0iiGWVZrrN2Uqy6Ychv Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 16:43:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <164664670607.9161.10011036362657422669@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> In-Reply-To: <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: suggested_attachment_session_id: 8d8b224f-4a64-bc4f-c2e8-38bae9c592f5 authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 37e819bf-d092-4043-0aa8-08da037e50f7 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB6PR0701MB2743:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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Fri, 11 Mar 2022 09:37:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bkvxkdN6Y6QU; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 09:37:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C7BB3A0C35; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 09:37:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EDAC51E341; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 12:37:26 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 12:37:26 -0500 Cc: Camilo Cardona , grow-chairs@ietf.org, grow@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <505A8676-63D3-47A6-90F6-CD1D032CB120@pfrc.org> References: <164664670607.9161.10011036362657422669@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> <326A574B-E666-4AA3-8E37-0C21998B1275@pfrc.org> To: Camilo Cardona X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 17:37:33 -0000 Camilo, > On Mar 7, 2022, at 5:59 PM, Camilo Cardona wrote: > =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/22, 22:32, "Jeffrey Haas" wrote: >> You probably care about what's going on for the tcp yang module. = I've prodded that item in a separate response. >>=20 > JCC: Ack! We will look at that. Are you planning to include that also = in the BGP one? Alvaro prodded IDR that it was at IETF last call. Since the BGP module = is looking to make use of TCP-AO, it got some extra scrutiny. That, plus the fact that anyone who does any serious BGP or BMP = troubleshooting usually ends up a lesser expert on TCP and wants good = troubleshooting... :-) >> For your address family list, perhaps consider the BGP yang = identity afi-safi-type. We're hoping that as the bgp-yang work wraps up = we'll have the expected types in a common registry that can be = extensibly maintained. I see you're using this for the "name" for = address-family filters. >>=20 > JCC: We do reference the BGP one for AFIs, don=E2=80=99t we? Let us = know where we are missing that reference as the idea is indeed to = leverage the BGP model as much as possible. This one was a mistake on my part. You're covered! >> For your "bmp_peer_types", consider having it be an identity. = They're easy to maintain in the yang language, while enumerations tend = to require a fully model update. >>=20 > JCC: Also here, please check that "peer" is already an union between = the remote-address of the BGP model, the peer-type of the same model, = and the bmp one. We added the last one because we couldn=E2=80=99t find = a way of signaling "ALL", and we wanted to be explicit, but we can check = other options. Understood. The "type enumeration" works, but so would making it an = identity. The IETF YANG maintenance rules effectively push you to maintain = enumerations by publishing an update to the module. However, if you = define a base identity for this bit of config and create the "all" case, = you're covered for current purposes. At a later date if you want to add = other identities via augmentation rather than a full module re-issue, = you can do so. For example, "all-customers", "all-ebgp" or other such = stuff. >=20 >> How were you planning on monitoring other network-instances? E.g. = the ribs for vrf-X? >>=20 > JCC: My na=C3=AFve answer would be to place it under the = network-instance that it corresponds, such as the BGP model does, but I = am sure there are tons of caveats to explore. Yeah, there's choices here. The critical one is I think that you want = your config state for your stations to be somewhat centralized while = your "here's what I monitor" to be network-instance aware. Exactly what = that looks like probably will take some discussion. I don't have a = strong opinion yet! >=20 >> Consider moving your action to be a per-station action. See for = example the actions in the bgp yang model. >>=20 > JCC: The action currently points to a single station. Maybe I am = misunderstanding your observation here though. The model is basically "clear session foo". If you look at the = bgp-model, you'll see that under neighbor context, there's a clear = action. Its presence under the neighbor means that you have semantic = clarity about what you're taking action on. =20 Contrast this vs. a global action that requires parameters. It's a style point. I would tend to recommend the per neighbor yang = actions because the validation considerations are handled by its = presence there. I.e. "is this a configured entity." -- Jeff >=20 From nobody Fri Mar 11 17:43:33 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90FBF3A0D31; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 17:43:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.906 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qNBsrWatpIJR; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 17:43:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22DAA3A0D3E; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 17:43:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml703-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.206]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4KFlsH0vv1z67ZTx; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 09:41:55 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.141) by fraeml703-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2308.21; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 02:43:20 +0100 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.141) by kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.21; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 09:43:19 +0800 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) by kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.021; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 09:43:19 +0800 From: Zhuangshunwan To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , Nick Hilliard CC: "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] IXP Route Server question Thread-Index: AdgzI9AepbPeSUXIRROpCLpxuIKvkgAD5f2AAD5dAsAAYRU1MA== Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 01:43:19 +0000 Message-ID: <82b678f2254b42fabe3bfbcef4b8d28c@huawei.com> References: <0db7749f-66fd-5def-a8bb-3ee316cf2ca1@foobar.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.152.178] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 01:43:31 -0000 Hi Sriram, > The ASPA verification draft treats the relationship of RS to RS-client as= similar > to that of Provider to Customer. Seems reasonable? The AS of an RS client > includes the RS's AS in its ASPA as a "Provider". > IMO, the ASPA verification draft regards the relationship between RS and RS= -client as "peer-to-peer", maybe my understanding is wrong, I will read the= ASPA verification draft again. BR, Shunwan > -----Original Message----- > From: GROW [mailto:grow-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sriram, > Kotikalapudi (Fed) > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2022 11:31 AM > To: Nick Hilliard > Cc: grow@ietf.org; sidrops@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question >=20 > Nick and all, >=20 > Thank you. What you all shared/discussed is very useful info. >=20 > >Almost all RS's are transparent these days. Usually IXPs go to lengths = to > ensure that the RS ASN doesn't appear in the AS path. >=20 > Good to know that. Well, that means there can be an occasional RS that is > non-transparent. When there is a non-transparent RS, could there be big I= SPs > (Tier-1, Tier-2) present there as RS-clients? >=20 > The ASPA verification draft treats the relationship of RS to RS-client as= similar > to that of Provider to Customer. Seems reasonable? The AS of an RS client > includes the RS's AS in its ASPA as a "Provider". >=20 > Sriram >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Hilliard > Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2022 4:28 PM > To: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) > Cc: grow@ietf.org; sidrops@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question >=20 > Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) wrote on 08/03/2022 19:36: > > This question has relevance to the ASPA method for route leak > > detection. > > > > Is it possible that an ISP AS A peers with a customer AS C via a > > non-transparent IXP AS B? > > IOW, the AS path in routes propagated by the ISP A for customer C's > > prefixes looks like this: A B C. > > I.e., can the AS of a non-transparent IXP/RS appear in an AS path in > > the middle between an ISP and its customer? >=20 > Almost all RS's are transparent these days. Usually IXPs go to lengths t= o > ensure that the RS ASN doesn't appear in the AS path. >=20 > Some organisations provide transit over IXPs, but it's a minority thing. > It would be very peculiar if an organisation provided transit over an IXP= via > an RS. >=20 > Some organisations provide transit to ASNs over a direct physical connect= ion > while maintain peering with their customer over an IXP port. > Usually this happens by accident, but occasionally it can happen by desig= n. >=20 > The answer to your question is that it would be technically possible, but= it > would be so peculiar and stupid that it should be considered a mistake in= the > situations where it was intentional. In all other situations, it would be= a leak. > Generally it would be safe to assume that this sort of configuration was = in > error. >=20 > Nick > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow From nobody Sat Mar 12 13:59:44 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0703A1051; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:59:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id voeaVzGcz04h; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:59:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [46.182.8.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2E8E3A1047; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:59:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from crumpet.local (admin.ibn.ie [46.182.8.8]) by mail.netability.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9FE4D9CC3B; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 21:59:29 +0000 (GMT) To: Ben Maddison Cc: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" References: <0db7749f-66fd-5def-a8bb-3ee316cf2ca1@foobar.org> <20220311072307.gymne3ofnfsrinkc@benm-laptop> From: Nick Hilliard Message-ID: <517ea9bd-4ee1-44cb-3373-eb0552191b2b@foobar.org> Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 21:59:28 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.16; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 PostboxApp/7.0.54 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20220311072307.gymne3ofnfsrinkc@benm-laptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 21:59:42 -0000 Ben Maddison wrote on 11/03/2022 07:23: > Essential, I would think: how could a far end relying party know that an > AS in the middle of a received AS_PATH is a non-transparent IXP RS in > order to apply any other treatment? given that they're a shrinking rarity, would it not make sense to completely exclude non-transparent RSs from the ASPA definition? In the short term this would cause problems for ASNs which connect to non-transparent RSs, but there are hardly any left, and only one sizeable one. I wonder whether it's a good idea to design a long term security mechanism which includes a specific carve-out for a legacy corner case like this. Nick From nobody Sat Mar 12 14:41:46 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EF7C3A0863; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 14:41:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jTc_I2cZyUHh; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 14:41:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D1543A085E; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 14:41:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1nTAQT-000DLs-DH; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 22:41:29 +0000 Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 14:41:28 -0800 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Nick Hilliard Cc: GMO Crops , SIDR Operations WG In-Reply-To: <517ea9bd-4ee1-44cb-3373-eb0552191b2b@foobar.org> References: <0db7749f-66fd-5def-a8bb-3ee316cf2ca1@foobar.org> <20220311072307.gymne3ofnfsrinkc@benm-laptop> <517ea9bd-4ee1-44cb-3373-eb0552191b2b@foobar.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/26.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 22:41:37 -0000 > given that they're a shrinking rarity, would it not make sense to > completely exclude non-transparent RSs from the ASPA definition? In > the short term this would cause problems for ASNs which connect to > non-transparent RSs, but there are hardly any left, and only one > sizeable one. > > I wonder whether it's a good idea to design a long term security > mechanism which includes a specific carve-out for a legacy corner case > like this. i do not wonder about adding complexity to specs and code in a security application. i know it's a bad idea. randy From nobody Sun Mar 13 09:20:16 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B0993A0D7E; Sun, 13 Mar 2022 09:20:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.112 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.112 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_GOV_DKIM_AU=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR09MB8142.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a5f3ad07-626e-4433-db2c-08da050d53e0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Mar 2022 16:20:02.5210 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR09MB7806 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:20:14 -0000 Nick, >Ben Maddison wrote on 11/03/2022 07:23: >> Essential, I would think: how could a far end relying party know that=20 >> an AS in the middle of a received AS_PATH is a non-transparent IXP RS=20 >> in order to apply any other treatment? >given that they're a shrinking rarity, would it not make sense to complete= ly exclude non-transparent RSs from the ASPA definition? In the short term = this would cause problems for ASNs which connect to non-transparent RSs, bu= t there are hardly any left, and only one sizeable one. >I wonder whether it's a good idea to design a long term security mechanism= which includes a specific carve-out for a legacy corner case like this. Not sure why Ben even raised that question. To me, it doesn't seem relevant= . In the route leak detection procedures, the receiving/validating AS does = not require information about the nature of ASes (RS or not RS) in the AS P= ath except for the sending/neighbor AS which it knows to be an RS in case i= t knows itself to be an RS-client. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR09MB8142.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 96a82b9a-756b-439a-0466-08da0510cc9d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Mar 2022 16:44:53.5398 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR09MB8733 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:45:05 -0000 Hi Shunwan, >> The ASPA verification draft treats the relationship of RS to RS-client=20 >> as similar to that of Provider to Customer. Seems reasonable? The AS=20 >> of an RS client includes the RS's AS in its ASPA as a "Provider". >IMO, the ASPA verification draft regards the relationship between RS and R= S-client as "peer-to-peer",=20 That is not correct. >maybe my understanding is wrong, I will read the ASPA verification draft a= gain. OK. Just FYI... the draft needs a revision. It does not contain yet the enh= anced ASPA upstream/downstream verification algorithms/procedures. Not sure= if you've followed sidrops discussions on the algorithms since January 202= 1. Some pointers: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/materials/slides-110-sidrops-srira= m-aspa-alg-accuracy-01 https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sidrops/C6Ethp2aC9sJsxDtBrLQDjmCqk4/ Thanks. Sriram =20 =20 From nobody Sun Mar 13 16:56:52 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DFE53A1843; Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:56:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UHlg84W2uEQG; Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [46.182.8.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8BB03A183D; Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crumpet.local (admin.ibn.ie [46.182.8.8]) by mail.netability.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A77479EB95; Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:56:15 +0000 (GMT) To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" Cc: Ben Maddison , "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" References: <0db7749f-66fd-5def-a8bb-3ee316cf2ca1@foobar.org> <20220311072307.gymne3ofnfsrinkc@benm-laptop> <517ea9bd-4ee1-44cb-3373-eb0552191b2b@foobar.org> From: Nick Hilliard Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:56:14 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.16; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 PostboxApp/7.0.54 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:56:26 -0000 Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) wrote on 13/03/2022 16:20: > Not sure why Ben even raised that question. To me, it doesn't seem > relevant. In the route leak detection procedures, the > receiving/validating AS does not require information about the nature > of ASes (RS or not RS) in the AS Path except for the sending/neighbor > AS which it knows to be an RS in case it knows itself to be an > RS-client. The procedures rely only on ASPA objects for the origin AS > and ASes in the middle. Stepping back a bit, there's no fundamental difference between the behaviour of a transparent RS and a non-transparent RS, except that the transparent RS happens to elide the RS AS number from the AS path. The remainder of the AS path will be the same in either case. The algorithm for check_ix_path() implements a check to flip between upstream path verification and downstream path verification based on whether the RS is transparent or non-transparent. Even if it gives a workable outcome, I think this is the wrong approach from an algorithmic point of view. The algorithm needs to accept that the two situations are basically the same except that in one (rare) case, the RS ASN is present in the AS path, and in the other, it isn't. Section 5.3 says that the client has prior knowledge about whether the peer is a RS. I.e. the draft already admits that rs client implementations will need a config flag. So rather than discussing whether non-transparent ASNs are included in the specification, the discussion needs to focus on whether RS ASN's should be included in the ASPA verification algorithm at all, and if so / if not, how this should be done. The answer to this question is (surprisingly) not immediately clear. RSs do not partake in traffic forwarding, so they are not part of the data path between two ASNs; they're only part of the signaling path between the two ASNs. This is a useful hack from a practical point of view, but it causes algorithmic breakage in places which assume congruency between the data plane and the signaling plane. One of these places is AS path verification. This changes the question of whether or not a hack is deployed to mitigate the effects of RS hackiness, but simply what style of hack should be used. The current proposal is a mitigation approach, but can I propose an alternative approach, namely that the draft reintroduces congruence between the data plane and the signaling plane from the point of view of ASPA verification? I.e. if the WG opinion is to include RS's as being in scope, then the AS path that the aspa algorithm operates on should include the RS ASN, regardless of how the RS is transparent or non-transparent. Alternatively, if WG opinion is to exclude RS's from the scope of this draft, then ASPA should be handled on the basis that the RS ASN is deleted from the as path list. The only information necessary is whether the rs-client is aware that it's talking to a RS, but we already know that. If RS's are kept in scope, then the RS should be treated as a provider by the rs client; the rs client should include the RS ASN in its SPAS; the rs client should evaluate ASPA as if the RS ASN were included in the path; the rs should evaluate clients as customers If they're out of scope, then ASPA verification should elide the RS ASN from the AS PATH if it has not already been elided, and ASPA verification should proceed as if the two rs-client ASNs were directly connected and each should treat the other as a provider. Nick From nobody Sun Mar 13 18:45:33 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F7BE3A18A7; Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:45:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.907 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.907 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id urRvZJxVAhgR; Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF3A93A0C66; Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fraeml702-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.206]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4KGzqZ4xNfz67ts3; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:44:42 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepeml100001.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.249) by fraeml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2375.24; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 02:45:22 +0100 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.141) by kwepeml100001.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.249) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.21; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:45:21 +0800 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) by kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.021; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:45:21 +0800 From: Zhuangshunwan To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" CC: "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] IXP Route Server question Thread-Index: AdgzI9AeBV4234ykpkmw38R5LhMrNQAD5f2AAD5dAsAAYRU1MABRQkygABOGoeA= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 01:45:20 +0000 Message-ID: <2ad9d317fdf9441aa207628d4bfd6098@huawei.com> References: <0db7749f-66fd-5def-a8bb-3ee316cf2ca1@foobar.org> <82b678f2254b42fabe3bfbcef4b8d28c@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.152.178] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] IXP Route Server question X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 01:45:31 -0000 Hi Sriram, Thanks for your pointers! I will read them carefully. Best regards, Shunwan > -----Original Message----- > From: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) [mailto:kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov] > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2022 12:45 AM > To: Zhuangshunwan > Cc: grow@ietf.org; sidrops@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [GROW] IXP Route Server question >=20 > Hi Shunwan, >=20 > >> The ASPA verification draft treats the relationship of RS to > >> RS-client as similar to that of Provider to Customer. Seems > >> reasonable? The AS of an RS client includes the RS's AS in its ASPA as= a > "Provider". >=20 > >IMO, the ASPA verification draft regards the relationship between RS > >and RS-client as "peer-to-peer", >=20 > That is not correct. >=20 > >maybe my understanding is wrong, I will read the ASPA verification draft > again. >=20 > OK. Just FYI... the draft needs a revision. It does not contain yet the e= nhanced > ASPA upstream/downstream verification algorithms/procedures. Not sure if > you've followed sidrops discussions on the algorithms since January 2021. > Some pointers: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/materials/slides-110-sidrops-sri= ra > m-aspa-alg-accuracy-01 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sidrops/C6Ethp2aC9sJsxDtBrLQDjmCq > k4/ >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > Sriram >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Mar 14 16:09:05 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187E33A067A; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:09:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.908 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id czjWCmee2RKk; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail4.sttlwa01.us.to.gin.ntt.net (mail.gin.ntt.net [IPv6:2001:418:3ff:110::40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30D063A0687; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (unknown [IPv6:2001:418:1401:10::101d]) by mail4.sttlwa01.us.to.gin.ntt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7198C22014B; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 23:08:55 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.56.21121100 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 18:08:51 -0500 From: Camilo Cardona To: tom petch , Camilo Cardona CC: "grow-chairs@ietf.org" , "grow@ietf.org" Message-ID: <3AE17C06-CF72-41DE-9211-664DF3DE518D@gin.ntt.net> Thread-Topic: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang References: <164664670607.9161.10011036362657422669@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 23:09:03 -0000 Hello Tom, These points are great, thanks a lot.=20 All of them look like clear errors we need to address. We'll try to do it i= n the next version of the draft. Regarding the use of the zone ip address, I would say we need it.. but I mi= ght be wrong. We'll give it another thought.=20 Thanks a lot for this review, Camilo =EF=BB=BFOn 11/3/22, 11:43, "tom petch" wrote: From: GROW on behalf of Camilo Cardona Sent: 07 March 2022 10:06 Hi Grow, We just submitted a new draft proposing a yang module for configuring a= nd managing BMP on a device. It would be nice to get some comments, observations, etc. prefix bmp seems more than adequate to me - ietf in the name but not in= the prefix import must have a reference and the reference must be Normative Refere= nces for the I-D YANG must be plain text - I am always suspicious of [] as in "[RFC-to-be]: BMP YANG Module"; an enum with only one value could do with an explanation looking at how it is used, I do not understand it your ip type include the zone - is this intended? leaf destination-port { type inet:ip-address; looks like an oxymoron statistics interval has no units statistics commonly have a discontinuity leaf unit32 may be small for counters actions commonly have a NACM default deny-all ' BGP data is sensible for security considerations. ' looks a bit odd IANA considerations are incomplete - you must register the prefix YANG needs references, BGP. BMP!. etc This e-mail comes from two addresses neither of which are the address = in the I-D; I wonder if they will bounce:-( Have a 'nice' day, Tom Petch Grow Chairs, will it be possible to get a 5 minute slot in the next ses= sion to give an overview of this module? Thanks, Camilo Cardona > > =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/22, 10:51, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: > > > A new version of I-D, draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Camilo Cardona and posted to th= e > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang > Revision: 01 > Title: BMP YANG Module > Document date: 2022-03-07 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 14 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-cptb-grow-bm= p-yang-01.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cptb-grow-b= mp-yang/ > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cptb-g= row-bmp-yang > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-cptb-grow-= bmp-yang-01 > > Abstract: > This document proposes a YANG module for BMP (BGP Monitoring > Protocol) configuration and monitoring. A complementary RPC tr= iggers > a refresh of the session of a BMP station. > > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ GROW mailing list GROW@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow From nobody Mon Mar 14 16:12:28 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26DBB3A07A7; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:12:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.908 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6V_NZQuU8m9T; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (mail.gintest.ntt.net [128.241.192.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 523C73A073E; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (unknown [IPv6:2001:418:1401:10::101d]) by mail4.dllstx09.us.to.gin.ntt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ADDA9EE014D; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 23:12:19 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.56.21121100 Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 18:12:16 -0500 From: Camilo Cardona To: Jeffrey Haas CC: Camilo Cardona , , Message-ID: <628689F7-336D-4573-9873-C6DA9E97D331@gin.ntt.net> Thread-Topic: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang References: <164664670607.9161.10011036362657422669@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> <326A574B-E666-4AA3-8E37-0C21998B1275@pfrc.org> <505A8676-63D3-47A6-90F6-CD1D032CB120@pfrc.org> In-Reply-To: <505A8676-63D3-47A6-90F6-CD1D032CB120@pfrc.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 23:12:26 -0000 Hi Jeff, All you say makes sense here. Thanks a lot! What we'll do then: - We'll take a look at that TCP draft, - We'll give it another though at the enumeration of the peer,=20 - We'll try to add that bmp tree somewhere in the ietf tree, and we'll then= discuss what the best way is.=20 - I think it makes sense moving that action point within the station, yeah.= We'll discuss it further. Camilo =EF=BB=BFOn 11/3/22, 12:37, "Jeffrey Haas" wrote: Camilo, > On Mar 7, 2022, at 5:59 PM, Camilo Cardona wrote= : > =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/22, 22:32, "Jeffrey Haas" wrote: >> You probably care about what's going on for the tcp yang module. = I've prodded that item in a separate response. >>=20 > JCC: Ack! We will look at that. Are you planning to include that also= in the BGP one? Alvaro prodded IDR that it was at IETF last call. Since the BGP module= is looking to make use of TCP-AO, it got some extra scrutiny. That, plus the fact that anyone who does any serious BGP or BMP trouble= shooting usually ends up a lesser expert on TCP and wants good troubleshooti= ng... :-) >> For your address family list, perhaps consider the BGP yang ident= ity afi-safi-type. We're hoping that as the bgp-yang work wraps up we'll ha= ve the expected types in a common registry that can be extensibly maintained= . I see you're using this for the "name" for address-family filters. >>=20 > JCC: We do reference the BGP one for AFIs, don=E2=80=99t we? Let us know w= here we are missing that reference as the idea is indeed to leverage the BGP= model as much as possible. This one was a mistake on my part. You're covered! >> For your "bmp_peer_types", consider having it be an identity. Th= ey're easy to maintain in the yang language, while enumerations tend to requ= ire a fully model update. >>=20 > JCC: Also here, please check that "peer" is already an union between = the remote-address of the BGP model, the peer-type of the same model, and th= e bmp one. We added the last one because we couldn=E2=80=99t find a way of signali= ng "ALL", and we wanted to be explicit, but we can check other options. Understood. The "type enumeration" works, but so would making it an id= entity. The IETF YANG maintenance rules effectively push you to maintain enumer= ations by publishing an update to the module. However, if you define a base= identity for this bit of config and create the "all" case, you're covered f= or current purposes. At a later date if you want to add other identities vi= a augmentation rather than a full module re-issue, you can do so. For examp= le, "all-customers", "all-ebgp" or other such stuff. >=20 >> How were you planning on monitoring other network-instances? E.g= . the ribs for vrf-X? >>=20 > JCC: My na=C3=AFve answer would be to place it under the network-instance= that it corresponds, such as the BGP model does, but I am sure there are to= ns of caveats to explore. Yeah, there's choices here. The critical one is I think that you want = your config state for your stations to be somewhat centralized while your "h= ere's what I monitor" to be network-instance aware. Exactly what that looks= like probably will take some discussion. I don't have a strong opinion yet= ! >=20 >> Consider moving your action to be a per-station action. See for = example the actions in the bgp yang model. >>=20 > JCC: The action currently points to a single station. Maybe I am misu= nderstanding your observation here though. The model is basically "clear session foo". If you look at the bgp-mod= el, you'll see that under neighbor context, there's a clear action. Its pre= sence under the neighbor means that you have semantic clarity about what you= 're taking action on. =20 Contrast this vs. a global action that requires parameters. It's a style point. I would tend to recommend the per neighbor yang ac= tions because the validation considerations are handled by its presence ther= e. I.e. 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bCBiZSBldmFsdWF0ZWQgYXMgVmFsaWQgaW4gZWl0aGVyIGRpcmVjdGlvbi4gSSAgdGhpbmsgdGhp cyBwcm9wb3NhbCBpbiBjb25qdW5jdGlvbiB3aXRoIG90aGVyIGlkZWFzIGRpc2N1c3NlZCBhYm92 ZSB0YWtlcyBjYXJlIG9mIGJvdGggdHJhbnNwYXJlbnQgYW5kIG5vbi10cmFuc3BhcmVudCBSU3Mg aW4gdGhlIEFTUEEgdmVyaWZpY2F0aW9uIGFsZ29yaXRobXMuIERvZXMgdGhpcyBzZWVtIHJlYXNv bmFibGU/DQoNClRoYW5rIHlvdS4NCg0KU3JpcmFtDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Mar 17 19:50:29 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AFFD3A1569; Thu, 17 Mar 2022 19:50:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.906 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no 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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2375.24; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 18:27:54 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 18:27:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Content-Language: en-GB To: tom petch , Camilo Cardona , Camilo Cardona CC: "grow-chairs@ietf.org" , "grow@ietf.org" References: <164664670607.9161.10011036362657422669@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D361D9B-C56A-4E62-A39B-E92AF651AB2D@imdea.org> From: Benoit Claise In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [10.195.32.78] X-ClientProxiedBy: dggems701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.178) To fraeml736-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.217) X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [GROW] NACM for action: Re: New draft: Yanog module for BMP - draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 17:28:06 -0000 Hi Tom, Great feedback. I would like to come back your NACM comment below. We added "nacm:default-deny-all" to our action (in our temp version). I have not been following the detailed history of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-model-13. And I don't know whether this point was already discussed but I was surprised to observe that this draft does not have "nacm:default-deny-all" for its action. Bringing this issue here since I guess we deal with the same set of people in GROW/IDR. Regards, Benoit On 3/11/2022 5:43 PM, tom petch wrote: > From: GROW on behalf of Camilo Cardona > Sent: 07 March 2022 10:06 > Hi Grow, > > We just submitted a new draft proposing a yang module for configuring and managing BMP on a device. > > It would be nice to get some comments, observations, etc. > > > > prefix bmp seems more than adequate to me - ietf in the name but not in the prefix > > import must have a reference and the reference must be Normative References for the I-D > > YANG must be plain text - I am always suspicious of [] as in > "[RFC-to-be]: BMP YANG Module"; > > an enum with only one value could do with an explanation > looking at how it is used, I do not understand it > > your ip type include the zone - is this intended? > > leaf destination-port { > type inet:ip-address; > looks like an oxymoron > > statistics interval has no units > > statistics commonly have a discontinuity leaf > > unit32 may be small for counters > > actions commonly have a NACM default deny-all > > ' BGP data is sensible for security considerations.' > looks a bit odd > > IANA considerations are incomplete - you must register the prefix > > YANG needs references, BGP. BMP!. etc > > This e-mail comes from two addresses neither of which are the address in the I-D; I wonder if they will bounce:-( > > > Have a 'nice' day, > > Tom Petch > > Grow Chairs, will it be possible to get a 5 minute slot in the next session to give an overview of this module? > > Thanks, > Camilo Cardona > > > >> On 7/3/22, 10:51, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Camilo Cardona and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang >> Revision: 01 >> Title: BMP YANG Module >> Document date: 2022-03-07 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 14 >> URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang/ >> Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang >> Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-cptb-grow-bmp-yang-01 >> >> Abstract: >> This document proposes a YANG module for BMP (BGP Monitoring >> Protocol) configuration and monitoring. A complementary RPC triggers >> a refresh of the session of a BMP station. >> >> >> >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow From nobody Sun Mar 20 07:59:30 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 302CA3A0CC3; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 07:59:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.112 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.112 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_GOV_DKIM_AU=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR09MB8142.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bfa1f168-8704-468a-8697-08da0a8232d1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Mar 2022 14:59:13.9871 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR09MB5859 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:59:27 -0000 I think a correction is required. Instead of what was said before - =20 #1: An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their = SPAS/ASPA. The RS client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS with whom it= connects in the control plane via the RS. only the following simpler statement is required in the draft: #2: An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their = SPAS/ASPA.=20 The reason is as follows. Consider the following topology and Update flow p= er arrows: AS1 (RS Client) -----> AS2 (RS) -----> AS3 (RS Client) ---p2p (lateral pee= r) ---> AS4 (validating AS) AS4 is the receiving/validating AS. Regardless of whether the RS inserts it= s ASN in the AS path or not, the Update is Invalid (route leak) at AS4. Bec= ause once the Update transitioned to a downward path after the RS, it canno= t be subsequently sent to a provider or lateral peer. But with #1, the Upda= te will be evaluated as Valid (not route leak) by the ASPA verification pro= cedure in case the RS is transparent. But with #2, the Update will be corre= ctly detected as a route leak (whether the RS is transparent or not).=20 Explanation: With #1, the hop AS1-AS3 in the transparent case is evaluated = as Valid (C2P) (as part of an ascending up-ramp on the left) by the procedu= re and that is not good. I.e., the detection of the apex in the AS path at = the RS (not visible in the path) and inversion (non-upward flow) after the = RS is obscured with #1 (in the transparent case). However, with #2, the hop= AS1-AS3 is evaluated as "attested not Provider". That means that the detec= tion of apex/inversion at the RS (though not visible in the path) is effect= ively not missed out by the procedure with #2.=20 Thank you. Sriram =20 -----Original Message----- From: GROW On Behalf Of Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 11:34 AM To: Nick Hilliard Cc: Ben Maddison ; grow@ietf.org; sidrops@ietf.org Subject: [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: [Sidrops] IXP Route Server q= uestion) Nick (and all), I was also rereading/reviewing Section 5.3 and had similar thoughts about t= he two options you outlined. As you noted, "the approach in Section 5.3 giv= es a workable outcome". However...=20 >... the RS should be treated as a provider by the rs client; the rs client= should include the RS ASN in its SPAS; the rs client should evaluate ASPA = as if the RS ASN were included in the path; the rs should evaluate clients = as customers Yes, I agree that "the rs client should include the RS ASN in its SPAS." Al= exander and I have talked about this, and he mentioned that this would be a= dded to the draft.=20 Yes, I also feel that it is a better option that the RS client adds the ASN= of the transparent RS to the AS path (for ASPA validation purposes only) a= nd applies the downstream ASPA algorithm. Algorithmically this seems more a= ppropriate. This is also better from a diagnostics point of view (if the ne= ed ever arises) because in this approach the relevant ASPA is used for vali= dating the hop from the AS just before the RS to the RS. =20 That said, I think there is a bigger issue about transparent RS in the midd= le of the AS path. Maybe this is what Ben's question was hinting at. I thin= k you are also raising this issue when you say: >RSs do not partake in traffic forwarding, so they are not part of the data= path between two ASNs; they're only part of the signaling path between the= two ASNs. This is a useful hack from a practical point of view, but it ca= uses algorithmic breakage in places which assume congruency between the dat= a plane and the signaling plane. One of these places is AS path verificati= on. > ....ASPA verification should proceed as if the two rs-client ASNs were di= rectly connected and each should treat the other as a provider Based on the above observations from you, I am proposing the following: An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their SPAS= /ASPA. The RS client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS with whom it con= nects in the control plane via the RS. The idea is that a path segment ASx-RS-ASy (where ASx and ASy are RS-client= s connected in BGP via the RS) will be always verifiable with this proposal= whether or not the RS is transparent. If the ASPAs are created by ASx and = ASy per the proposal above, then the ASx-RS-ASy segment will be evaluated a= s Valid in either direction. I think this proposal in conjunction with oth= er ideas discussed above takes care of both transparent and non-transparent= RSs in the ASPA verification algorithms. Does this seem reasonable? Thank you. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR09MB8142.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d0f27807-544e-429f-94c9-08da0a87666d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Mar 2022 15:36:28.0885 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR09MB4807 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 15:36:39 -0000 Hi Shunwan, Please see the comments below marked with [KS]. >> An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their=20 >> SPAS/ASPA. The RS client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS with=20 >> whom it connects in the control plane via the RS. >> .... [SW] IMO, this idea essentially solves the problem of ASPA verification. [KS] Please see the previous message I posted on the list. [SW] Regarding "The RS client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS with wh= om it connects in the control plane via the RS.", is this equivalent to si= gn the AS pair of the P2P as-relationship to the ASPA database? [KS] p2p relationship is not signed/registered in ASPA. The way it works is= ... if a hop ASx-ASy is such that ASx has signed ASPA but has not included = ASy as a Provider, then that means that ASy is "attested not Provider" of A= Sx. In turn, that means that ASy is a customer or lateral peer of ASx. =20 [SW] Back to Section 5.3, it said "A route received from a RS at IX has muc= h in common with route received from a provider." Actually I also think tha= t "A route received from P2P BGP neighbor has much in common with route rec= eived from a provider. (for ASPA validation purposes only)". Does this seem= reasonable? [KS] I don't see it that way. A provider may send any available routes to a= customer but lateral peers (p2p) may send only their customer routes to ea= ch other. =20 Thank you. Sriram From nobody Sun Mar 20 09:20:13 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F643A0FFF; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 09:20:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YXMF4WpT4-Im; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 09:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x529.google.com (mail-pg1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65C433A0F9D; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 09:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x529.google.com with SMTP id bc27so8680841pgb.4; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 09:19:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=P+XdRKNiUFXL+BNNYULrHtRSji1Z7Dck/bXEP2RdlXg=; b=iP8Sg1pu7Hwevpl+D1wurkPpZPZoz6Cf1GLIDlXazu82hz0MkaBOirT3YCyt7aSigz lr27irnDQDa7DsrHWORxl3hvU0tm5rVXsfGb2lupxsdf1LUzhVvuvgTCZpvy/hQrKecz tZ2btqDlMjirMsnNImw8HMiVMrSaAUrfF7VyqonMzOibgbBvAoW5R8YAiJrKiUieigKp cdeNE8YhGsLf1KqC+M8TUxP2gPZoWYTjJPbzVQsIJT+c5KrM427kt2Y3ILd1yafgP4KE hePskTGx8q0ObtjjAgdXoc83wkSR1y8IW7HrOJwoIx5ipgA5wET1uAgKPwxZAfMTIu2v Y3EA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=P+XdRKNiUFXL+BNNYULrHtRSji1Z7Dck/bXEP2RdlXg=; b=7b+nlq/N9Ao48bz23VNRGFfgj0RWzqqBkLJlsqct3LuP16VI+/2MHaAuc3EMgiTnXb RZBiMj3VU6/yJCb9iYp/QcYCnEkzLy2DZRlvqF1a2kBbp+KtrnHPore2GNI4hoPLQtMX tSncOTl1h0CwmgjU2+23Gx/Ei8bk62afpJLDxZJFZe9zrFKYh07xCIjBD4tiRivSKMHM qIjWpVhDDBah6gMxeqzssgbTE3ujqRFSbx71wKPQVS0RbrOj1FAYWtkl4vHkMOf0A2UP W+RscuVUvAg5BYI7musNlJDcrwbRXIRmRWufWsKWLtpczceuzwPfrB7DutYc2WdetpHS 2+IA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531B7Lgl476ybR14eJcgHIcp2D+eDKPuo95DERpsD1UC6cJ3kHk9 t+DqEy5qat23G1E9x9N4FjlXHLpyckaefTS+WWs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx8QLR5gGuhj415+VhkSXNCt0HRX2p5EOD4FNRXu9DPI7ovlhPaUeC1H5yv8WyAyF9zuoic2nlMN7c93NmdacI= X-Received: by 2002:a63:6c01:0:b0:37c:73a0:a175 with SMTP id h1-20020a636c01000000b0037c73a0a175mr14923941pgc.415.1647793191118; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 09:19:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 12:19:40 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" Cc: Ben Maddison , Nick Hilliard , Zhuangshunwan , "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d1ecc605daa8bf1b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 16:20:02 -0000 --000000000000d1ecc605daa8bf1b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Sriram On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 10:59 AM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) wrote: > I think a correction is required. Instead of what was said before - > > #1: An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their > SPAS/ASPA. The RS client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS with whom it > connects in the control plane via the RS. > > only the following simpler statement is required in the draft: > > #2: An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their > SPAS/ASPA. > > The reason is as follows. Consider the following topology and Update flow > per arrows: > > AS1 (RS Client) -----> AS2 (RS) -----> AS3 (RS Client) ---p2p (lateral > peer) ---> AS4 (validating AS) > > AS4 is the receiving/validating AS. Regardless of whether the RS inserts > its ASN in the AS path or not, the Update is Invalid (route leak) at AS4. > Because once the Update transitioned to a downward path after the RS, it > cannot be subsequently sent to a provider or lateral peer. But with #1, the > Update will be evaluated as Valid (not route leak) by the ASPA verification > procedure in case the RS is transparent. But with #2, the Update will be > correctly detected as a route leak (whether the RS is transparent or not). > > Explanation: With #1, the hop AS1-AS3 in the transparent case is evaluated > as Valid (C2P) (as part of an ascending up-ramp on the left) by the > procedure and that is not good. I.e., the detection of the apex in the AS > path at the RS (not visible in the path) and inversion (non-upward flow) > after the RS is obscured with #1 (in the transparent case). However, with > #2, the hop AS1-AS3 is evaluated as "attested not Provider". That means > that the detection of apex/inversion at the RS (though not visible in the > path) is effectively not missed out by the procedure with #2. > > Thank you. > > Sriram > > -----Original Message----- > From: GROW On Behalf Of Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) > Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 11:34 AM > To: Nick Hilliard > Cc: Ben Maddison ; grow@ietf.org; sidrops@ietf.org > Subject: [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: [Sidrops] IXP Route Server > question) > > Nick (and all), > > I was also rereading/reviewing Section 5.3 and had similar thoughts about > the two options you outlined. As you noted, "the approach in Section 5.3 > gives a workable outcome". However... > > >... the RS should be treated as a provider by the rs client; the rs > client should include the RS ASN in its SPAS; the rs client should evaluate > ASPA as if the RS ASN were included in the path; the rs should evaluate > clients as customers > > Yes, I agree that "the rs client should include the RS ASN in its SPAS." > Alexander and I have talked about this, and he mentioned that this would be > added to the draft. > > Yes, I also feel that it is a better option that the RS client adds the > ASN of the transparent RS to the AS path (for ASPA validation purposes > only) and applies the downstream ASPA algorithm. Algorithmically this seems > more appropriate. This is also better from a diagnostics point of view (if > the need ever arises) because in this approach the relevant ASPA is used > for validating the hop from the AS just before the RS to the RS. > > That said, I think there is a bigger issue about transparent RS in the > middle of the AS path. Maybe this is what Ben's question was hinting at. I > think you are also raising this issue when you say: > > >RSs do not partake in traffic forwarding, so they are not part of the > data path between two ASNs; they're only part of the signaling path between > the two ASNs. This is a useful hack from a practical point of view, but it > causes algorithmic breakage in places which assume congruency between the > data plane and the signaling plane. One of these places is AS path > verification. > > > ....ASPA verification should proceed as if the two rs-client ASNs were > directly connected and each should treat the other as a provider Gyan>I understand the issue with the ASPA path verification, however if the RS AS added to ASPA then that would influence the forwarding plane is the issue. How do you insert RS AS for the ASPA path verification but not allow RS to be part of forwarding plane? I guess you could do a next-hop-unchanged between the clients connected through the RS. > > > Based on the above observations from you, I am proposing the following: > > An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their > SPAS/ASPA. The RS client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS with whom it > connects in the control plane via the RS. > > The idea is that a path segment ASx-RS-ASy (where ASx and ASy are > RS-clients connected in BGP via the RS) will be always verifiable with this > proposal whether or not the RS is transparent. If the ASPAs are created by > ASx and ASy per the proposal above, then the ASx-RS-ASy segment will be > evaluated as Valid in either direction. I think this proposal in > conjunction with other ideas discussed above takes care of both transparent > and non-transparent RSs in the ASPA verification algorithms. Does this seem > reasonable? > > Thank you. > > Sriram > > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com * *M 301 502-1347* --000000000000d1ecc605daa8bf1b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sriram

On Sun, Mar = 20, 2022 at 10:59 AM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) <kotikalapudi.sriram=3D<= a href=3D"mailto:40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40nist.gov@dm= arc.ietf.org> wrote:
I think= a correction is required. Instead of what was said before -

#1: An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their = SPAS/ASPA. The RS client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS with whom it= connects in the control plane via the RS.

only the following simpler statement is required in the draft:

#2: An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their = SPAS/ASPA.

The reason is as follows. Consider the following topology and Update flow p= er arrows:

AS1 (RS Client) -----> AS2 (RS) ----->=C2=A0 AS3 (RS Client) ---p2p (= lateral peer) --->=C2=A0 AS4 (validating AS)

AS4 is the receiving/validating AS. Regardless of whether the RS inserts it= s ASN in the AS path or not, the Update is Invalid (route leak) at AS4. Bec= ause once the Update transitioned to a downward path after the RS, it canno= t be subsequently sent to a provider or lateral peer. But with #1, the Upda= te will be evaluated as Valid (not route leak) by the ASPA verification pro= cedure in case the RS is transparent. But with #2, the Update will be corre= ctly detected as a route leak (whether the RS is transparent or not).

Explanation: With #1, the hop AS1-AS3 in the transparent case is evaluated = as Valid (C2P) (as part of an ascending up-ramp on the left) by the procedu= re and that is not good. I.e., the detection of the apex in the AS path at = the RS (not visible in the path) and inversion (non-upward flow) after the = RS is obscured with #1 (in the transparent case). However, with #2, the hop= AS1-AS3 is evaluated as "attested not Provider". That means that= the detection of apex/inversion at the RS (though not visible in the path)= is effectively not missed out by the procedure with #2.

Thank you.

Sriram=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0

-----Original Message-----
From: GROW <g= row-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 11:34 AM
To: Nick Hilliard <= nick@foobar.org>
Cc: Ben Maddison <benm@workonline.africa>; grow@ietf.org; sidrops@ietf.org
Subject: [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: [Sidrops] IXP Route Server q= uestion)

Nick (and all),

I was also rereading/reviewing Section 5.3 and had similar thoughts about t= he two options you outlined. As you noted, "the approach in Section 5.= 3 gives a workable outcome".=C2=A0 However...

>... the RS should be treated as a provider by the rs client; the rs cli= ent should include the RS ASN in its SPAS; the rs client should evaluate AS= PA as if the RS ASN were included in the path; the rs should evaluate clien= ts as customers

Yes, I agree that "the rs client should include the RS ASN in its SPAS= ." Alexander and I have talked about this, and he mentioned that this = would be added to the draft.

Yes, I also feel that it is a better option that the RS client adds the ASN= of the transparent RS to the AS path (for ASPA validation purposes only) a= nd applies the downstream ASPA algorithm. Algorithmically this seems more a= ppropriate. This is also better from a diagnostics point of view (if the ne= ed ever arises) because in this approach the relevant ASPA is used for vali= dating the hop from the AS just before the RS to the RS.=C2=A0

That said, I think there is a bigger issue about transparent RS in the midd= le of the AS path. Maybe this is what Ben's question was hinting at. I = think you are also raising this issue when you say:

>RSs do not partake in traffic forwarding, so they are not part of the d= ata path between two ASNs; they're only part of the signaling path betw= een the two ASNs.=C2=A0 This is a useful hack from a practical point of vie= w, but it causes algorithmic breakage in places which assume congruency bet= ween the data plane and the signaling plane.=C2=A0 One of these places is A= S path verification.

> ....ASPA verification should proceed as if the two rs-client ASNs were= directly connected and each should treat the other as a provider

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan>I un= derstand the issue with the ASPA path verification, however if the RS AS ad= ded to ASPA then that would influence the forwarding plane is the issue.=C2= =A0 How do you insert RS AS for the ASPA path verification but not allow RS= to be part of forwarding plane?=C2=A0 I guess you could do a next-hop-unch= anged between the clients connected through the RS.


Based on the above observations from you, I am proposing the following:

An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their SPAS= /ASPA. The RS client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS with whom it con= nects in the control plane via the RS.

The idea is that a path segment ASx-RS-ASy (where ASx and ASy are RS-client= s connected in BGP via the RS) will be always verifiable with this proposal= whether or not the RS is transparent. If the ASPAs are created by ASx and = ASy per the proposal above, then the ASx-RS-ASy segment will be evaluated a= s Valid in either direction. I=C2=A0 think this proposal in conjunction wit= h other ideas discussed above takes care of both transparent and non-transp= arent RSs in the ASPA verification algorithms. Does this seem reasonable?
Thank you.

Sriram

_______________________________________________
GROW mailing list
GROW@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow
--

=

Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0<= /p>

Email gyan.s.mishra@ver= izon.com<= br>

M 301 502-1347


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Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 15:13:18 -0000 --_000_BYAPR11MB3207DE083AD888F3C963E347C0169BYAPR11MB3207namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Um91dGUgc2VydmVycyBhcmUgYSBkaXN0cmFjdGlvbiBmb3IgQVNQQS4NCkFTUEEgaXMgYWJvdXQg QkdQIHBhdGggdmFsaWRhdGlvbi4NCkFzIHN1Y2ggaXQgY29uY2VybnMgaXRzZWxmIHdpdGggQVNO cyBpbiB0aGUgQVMgcGF0aC4NCkl0IGlzIGFib3V0IHJlbGF0aW9uc2hpcHMgYmV0d2VlbiBhZGph Y2VudCBBU2VzIGluIHRoZSBBUyBwYXRoLg0KU2luY2UgUlNlcyBhcmUgbm90IGluIHRoZSBBUyBw YXRoLCB0aGV5IGNhbm5vdCBiZSBpbmNsdWRlZCBpbiBBU1BBLg0KUlNlcyBhcmUgb25seSB2aXNp YmxlIGFuZCByZWxldmFudCB0byB0aGUgZGlyZWN0IG5laWdoYm9ycyBvZiB0aGUgUlMuDQpUaGUg 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Mar 2022 23:48:27 +0800 From: Zhuangshunwan To: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , Gyan Mishra , "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" CC: Ben Maddison , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "grow@ietf.org" , Nick Hilliard Thread-Topic: [Sidrops] [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) Thread-Index: AQHYPHZ5DD0pwhuq8ES1+K9Q/TYBZqzJ769QgAAIfUA= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 15:48:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.152.178] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a07986fb2d7147c0abb36229237d8982huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 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BLAPR09MB6097 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: [Sidrops] IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 15:52:26 -0000 Hi Gyan, >Gyan>I understand the issue with the ASPA path verification, however if th= e RS AS added to ASPA then that would influence the forwarding plane is the= issue.=A0 How do you insert RS AS for the ASPA path verification but not a= llow RS to be part of forwarding plane?=A0 I guess you could do a next-hop-= unchanged between the clients connected through the RS. Is this the confirmation (from RFC7947, Sec. 2.2.1) that you are looking fo= r? "... As the route server does not participate in the actual routing of traffic, the NEXT_HOP attribute MUST be passed unmodified to the route server clients,..." Sriram =20 From nobody Mon Mar 21 08:57:17 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA563A0D6F; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p_xWgyIekBAg; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52d.google.com (mail-pg1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D27DC3A0FB0; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id bc27so10604530pgb.4; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:57:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+M6vTP+YTbbKrQ6bJPDpDW88wMXCFR6lpt71kVVQHcU=; b=p/b58Vtz7d6vfLQbf7AJucVt9bh4l+jBpfg5rC++dqpd6B1v6cnRvL2m2HPqZcqeHv 0P9cxb7Px64eRAcfaKiBa1VLE5V52vl/+mcckPKDuyWQZaqqEtZw490shkI0Bju+0o7f 1X1ZsBYryB4/Z+8ABfFbUnzDjtaIoVW6svvslMT3/+uCzmVP+v1PuniL/Ge7K682EUT5 6IkUp5eWeKkdYXCcdTik0psTneEPh3IOhGtiTsutMNJkbjHnglv5/blb72Bp/OlKA7TD buoCcxzB4uxfbfj+Fo86Ki8cetjl2Ih1Jt4Kpporya5BjAVfJ1jWGlneOW9JEh2GNmEI 7ixA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+M6vTP+YTbbKrQ6bJPDpDW88wMXCFR6lpt71kVVQHcU=; b=fXjHtOdnq700bN5Uhom0dS1j8fWl99fD1vzhpyn+7RS8IIhhHbwt/ykiD+M3T5AuAO cJi2MiAeUO4J2RiJ1bvX0pQI9/JRnxbWhGxlRQ0/VUtP2jjUVSEcTRkpSYGk3Y6kxYoz Ztwe7HUsmt09/8sW7YYJuaS/EDQgN9z9akZXEajMXQXIp0JKl6Bdq0sy5wxwor6AidBX 8Md+lCUkFMbXUUoAnpfGtAkpa0a8xV11hTzVXn3GvSvrbrbkcuviL3Nv+lfeoVnTC7U9 l9yWh2m+OusDdVGV6K3ux5lgDjO/UDRCU6b5I2YCiAlcvykemQoya3O8G6Jw2R+7YbsQ E2Mw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530h81Q1WDSzVf3P5/FLJ915TuJSVQ9ULJxiYmuh5eioxEqWrfvH HgvC2/y6YvIGRf+T6DAjohoOaj2q9+3I+NrDjbI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwqU/k5BCk0Xhbt1RtDy1A8IT+CgxBH/HCPAX6bcFv/KBqDESzmGawhDhFYPmpoS7lkYJgnbQOXVuVQ/cCPKYA= X-Received: by 2002:a63:544:0:b0:382:1f3d:1ebe with SMTP id 65-20020a630544000000b003821f3d1ebemr14963518pgf.180.1647878228658; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:57:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:56:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" Cc: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , Nick Hilliard , "grow@ietf.org" , "sidrops@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000073cd6505dabc8cc6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 15:57:15 -0000 --00000000000073cd6505dabc8cc6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks Sriram Gyan On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 11:53 AM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) wrote: > Hi Gyan, > > >Gyan>I understand the issue with the ASPA path verification, however if > the RS AS added to ASPA then that would influence the forwarding plane is > the issue. How do you insert RS AS for the ASPA path verification but not > allow RS to be part of forwarding plane? I guess you could do a > next-hop-unchanged between the clients connected through the RS. > > Is this the confirmation (from RFC7947, Sec. 2.2.1) that you are looking > for? > > "... As the route server > does not participate in the actual routing of traffic, the NEXT_HOP > attribute MUST be passed unmodified to the route server clients,..." > > Sriram > > > _______________________________________________ > Sidrops mailing list > Sidrops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidrops > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com * *M 301 502-1347* --00000000000073cd6505dabc8cc6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Sriram

<= /div>
Gyan
On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 11:53 AM Sriram, = Kotikalapudi (Fed) <kotikalapudi.sriram=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Hi Gyan,

>Gyan>I understand the issue with the ASPA path verification, however= if the RS AS added to ASPA then that would influence the forwarding plane = is the issue.=C2=A0 How do you insert RS AS for the ASPA path verification = but not allow RS to be part of forwarding plane?=C2=A0 I guess you could do= a next-hop-unchanged between the clients connected through the RS.

Is this the confirmation (from RFC7947, Sec. 2.2.1) that you are looking fo= r?

"... As the route server
=C2=A0 =C2=A0does not participate in the actual routing of traffic, the NEX= T_HOP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attribute MUST be passed unmodified to the route server client= s,..."

Sriram


_______________________________________________
Sidrops mailing list
Sidrops@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidrops
--
--00000000000073cd6505dabc8cc6-- From nobody Mon Mar 21 09:43:34 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005993A1A8F; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 09:43:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h-ZFrG6S_fiB; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 09:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C1FA3A1AA9; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 09:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (99-59-193-67.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [99.59.193.67]) by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1FFA21E342; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 12:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_43C58376-4683-445A-94B7-855469CBBFA6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Jeffrey Haas In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 12:43:12 -0400 Cc: "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , Gyan Mishra , "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , Ben Maddison , "sidrops@ietf.org" , "grow@ietf.org" Message-Id: References: To: Zhuangshunwan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 16:43:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_43C58376-4683-445A-94B7-855469CBBFA6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Two comments here: If the BGP Speaker is inserting itself into the AS_PATH, it's not really = a Route Server in the traditional sense. A normal BGP Speaker can happily pass along routes via eBGP peering with = the nexthop unchanged with all devices that it shares a common nexthop = subnet with. My recommendation is to not to try to consider these devices a Route = Server. For ASPA purposes, just add the BGP connections to the inputs. If providers are unhappy with having a IXP router's AS in the ASPA data = and thus lose the desired ASPA filtering properties, the IXP should = install a real route server. -- Jeff > On Mar 21, 2022, at 11:48 AM, Zhuangshunwan = wrote: >=20 > +1 > I think Jacob's suggestion is reasonable. > I once worked on a route leak analysis project. There is a first step = in that project, which is to clear the IXP=E2=80=99s AS number added to = the AS-PATH by the non-transparent RS. > The basic idea is that a path segment =E2=80=9CAS1 - ASx - RS=E2=80=99s = ASN - ASy - ASn=E2=80=9D (where ASx and ASy are RS-clients connected in = BGP via the RS) will be corrected to =E2=80=9CAS1 - ASx - ASy - ASn=E2=80=9D= . > With this process, we can exclude the influence of non-transparent RS = on the accuracy of route-leak analysis. > =20 > Kind Regards, > Shunwan > =20 > From: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) [mailto:jheitz@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 11:13 PM > To: Gyan Mishra ; Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) = > Cc: Ben Maddison ; sidrops@ietf.org; = grow@ietf.org; Zhuangshunwan ; Nick Hilliard = > Subject: RE: [Sidrops] [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route = Server question) > =20 > Route servers are a distraction for ASPA. > ASPA is about BGP path validation. > As such it concerns itself with ASNs in the AS path. > It is about relationships between adjacent ASes in the AS path. > Since RSes are not in the AS path, they cannot be included in ASPA. > RSes are only visible and relevant to the direct neighbors of the RS. > The ASN of the RS does not appear in the AS path, therefore it is of = no concern to anyone that is trying to validate the AS path. > Could we please remove all references to route servers from the ASPA = draft and issue a new draft about treatment of route servers only? > =20 > Regards, > Jakob. > =20 > From: Sidrops > On Behalf Of Gyan Mishra > Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2022 9:20 AM > To: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) = > > Cc: Ben Maddison >; sidrops@ietf.org = ; grow@ietf.org ; = Zhuangshunwan >; Nick Hilliard > > Subject: Re: [Sidrops] [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route = Server question) > =20 > =20 > Hi Sriram > =20 > On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 10:59 AM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) = > wrote: > I think a correction is required. Instead of what was said before - >=20 > #1: An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in = their SPAS/ASPA. The RS client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS = with whom it connects in the control plane via the RS. >=20 > only the following simpler statement is required in the draft: >=20 > #2: An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in = their SPAS/ASPA.=20 >=20 > The reason is as follows. Consider the following topology and Update = flow per arrows: >=20 > AS1 (RS Client) -----> AS2 (RS) -----> AS3 (RS Client) ---p2p = (lateral peer) ---> AS4 (validating AS) >=20 > AS4 is the receiving/validating AS. Regardless of whether the RS = inserts its ASN in the AS path or not, the Update is Invalid (route = leak) at AS4. Because once the Update transitioned to a downward path = after the RS, it cannot be subsequently sent to a provider or lateral = peer. But with #1, the Update will be evaluated as Valid (not route = leak) by the ASPA verification procedure in case the RS is transparent. = But with #2, the Update will be correctly detected as a route leak = (whether the RS is transparent or not).=20 >=20 > Explanation: With #1, the hop AS1-AS3 in the transparent case is = evaluated as Valid (C2P) (as part of an ascending up-ramp on the left) = by the procedure and that is not good. I.e., the detection of the apex = in the AS path at the RS (not visible in the path) and inversion = (non-upward flow) after the RS is obscured with #1 (in the transparent = case). However, with #2, the hop AS1-AS3 is evaluated as "attested not = Provider". That means that the detection of apex/inversion at the RS = (though not visible in the path) is effectively not missed out by the = procedure with #2.=20 >=20 > Thank you. >=20 > Sriram =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: GROW > On = Behalf Of Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) > Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 11:34 AM > To: Nick Hilliard > > Cc: Ben Maddison >; grow@ietf.org ; = sidrops@ietf.org > Subject: [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: [Sidrops] IXP Route = Server question) >=20 > Nick (and all), >=20 > I was also rereading/reviewing Section 5.3 and had similar thoughts = about the two options you outlined. As you noted, "the approach in = Section 5.3 gives a workable outcome". However...=20 >=20 > >... the RS should be treated as a provider by the rs client; the rs = client should include the RS ASN in its SPAS; the rs client should = evaluate ASPA as if the RS ASN were included in the path; the rs should = evaluate clients as customers >=20 > Yes, I agree that "the rs client should include the RS ASN in its = SPAS." Alexander and I have talked about this, and he mentioned that = this would be added to the draft.=20 >=20 > Yes, I also feel that it is a better option that the RS client adds = the ASN of the transparent RS to the AS path (for ASPA validation = purposes only) and applies the downstream ASPA algorithm. = Algorithmically this seems more appropriate. This is also better from a = diagnostics point of view (if the need ever arises) because in this = approach the relevant ASPA is used for validating the hop from the AS = just before the RS to the RS. =20 >=20 > That said, I think there is a bigger issue about transparent RS in the = middle of the AS path. Maybe this is what Ben's question was hinting at. = I think you are also raising this issue when you say: >=20 > >RSs do not partake in traffic forwarding, so they are not part of the = data path between two ASNs; they're only part of the signaling path = between the two ASNs. This is a useful hack from a practical point of = view, but it causes algorithmic breakage in places which assume = congruency between the data plane and the signaling plane. One of these = places is AS path verification. >=20 > > ....ASPA verification should proceed as if the two rs-client ASNs = were directly connected and each should treat the other as a provider > =20 > Gyan>I understand the issue with the ASPA path verification, = however if the RS AS added to ASPA then that would influence the = forwarding plane is the issue. How do you insert RS AS for the ASPA = path verification but not allow RS to be part of forwarding plane? I = guess you could do a next-hop-unchanged between the clients connected = through the RS. >=20 >=20 > Based on the above observations from you, I am proposing the = following: >=20 > An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their = SPAS/ASPA. The RS client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS with whom = it connects in the control plane via the RS. >=20 > The idea is that a path segment ASx-RS-ASy (where ASx and ASy are = RS-clients connected in BGP via the RS) will be always verifiable with = this proposal whether or not the RS is transparent. If the ASPAs are = created by ASx and ASy per the proposal above, then the ASx-RS-ASy = segment will be evaluated as Valid in either direction. I think this = proposal in conjunction with other ideas discussed above takes care of = both transparent and non-transparent RSs in the ASPA verification = algorithms. Does this seem reasonable? >=20 > Thank you. >=20 > Sriram >=20 > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow = > --=20 > > Gyan Mishra > Network Solutions Architect=20 > Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > M 301 502-1347 >=20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow --Apple-Mail=_43C58376-4683-445A-94B7-855469CBBFA6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Two = comments here:

If = the BGP Speaker is inserting itself into the AS_PATH, it's not really a = Route Server in the traditional sense.

A normal BGP Speaker can happily pass = along routes via eBGP peering with the nexthop unchanged with all = devices that it shares a common nexthop subnet with.

My recommendation is to = not to try to consider these devices a Route Server.  For ASPA = purposes, just add the BGP connections to the inputs.

If providers are unhappy = with having a IXP router's AS in the ASPA data and thus lose the desired = ASPA filtering properties, the IXP should install a real route = server.

-- = Jeff


On Mar = 21, 2022, at 11:48 AM, Zhuangshunwan <zhuangshunwan=3D40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:

+1
I think Jacob's suggestion is reasonable.
I once worked on a route leak analysis project. There is a = first step in that project, which is to clear the IXP=E2=80=99s AS = number added to the AS-PATH by the non-transparent RS.
The basic idea is that a path segment =E2=80=9CAS1 - ASx - = RS=E2=80=99s ASN - ASy - ASn=E2=80=9D (where ASx and ASy are RS-clients = connected in BGP via the RS) will be corrected to =E2=80=9CAS1 - ASx - = ASy - ASn=E2=80=9D.
With this process, we can = exclude the influence of non-transparent RS on the accuracy of = route-leak analysis.
 
Kind Regards,
Shunwan
 
From: Jakob = Heitz (jheitz) [mailto:jheitz@cisco.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 = 11:13 PM
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) = <kotikalapudi.sriram=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Ben Maddison <benm@workonline.africa>; sidrops@ietf.org; grow@ietf.org; = Zhuangshunwan <zhuangshunwan@huawei.com>; Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>
Subject: RE: [Sidrops] [GROW] ASPA = and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question)
 
Route servers are a distraction for ASPA.
ASPA is about BGP path validation.
As such it concerns itself with ASNs in the AS path.
It is about relationships between adjacent ASes in the AS = path.
Since RSes are not in the AS path, they cannot be = included in ASPA.
RSes are only visible and relevant to the direct = neighbors of the RS.
The ASN of the RS does not = appear in the AS path, therefore it is of no concern to anyone that is = trying to validate the AS path.
Could we please remove all = references to route servers from the ASPA draft and issue a new draft = about treatment of route servers only?
 
Regards,
Jakob.
 
From: Sidrops = <sidrops-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Gyan Mishra
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2022 9:20 = AM
To: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) = <kotikalapudi.sriram=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Ben Maddison <benm@workonline.africa>; sidrops@ietf.org; grow@ietf.org; Zhuangshunwan <zhuangshunwan@huawei.com>; = Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>Subject: Re: [Sidrops] [GROW] ASPA = and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question)
 
 
Hi = Sriram
 
On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 10:59 AM Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) = <kotikalapudi.sriram=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
I think a correction is required. Instead of what was said = before -

#1: An RS client of an RS = (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their SPAS/ASPA. The RS = client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS with whom it connects in = the control plane via the RS.

only the = following simpler statement is required in the draft:

#2: An RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the = RS AS in their SPAS/ASPA. 

The reason is as follows. Consider the following topology and = Update flow per arrows:

AS1 (RS Client) = -----> AS2 (RS) ----->  AS3 (RS Client) ---p2p (lateral peer) = --->  AS4 (validating AS)

AS4 is = the receiving/validating AS. Regardless of whether the RS inserts its = ASN in the AS path or not, the Update is Invalid (route leak) at AS4. = Because once the Update transitioned to a downward path after the RS, it = cannot be subsequently sent to a provider or lateral peer. But with #1, = the Update will be evaluated as Valid (not route leak) by the ASPA = verification procedure in case the RS is transparent. But with #2, the = Update will be correctly detected as a route leak (whether the RS is = transparent or not). 
Explanation: With #1, the hop AS1-AS3 in the = transparent case is evaluated as Valid (C2P) (as part of an ascending = up-ramp on the left) by the procedure and that is not good. I.e., the = detection of the apex in the AS path at the RS (not visible in the path) = and inversion (non-upward flow) after the RS is obscured with #1 (in the = transparent case). However, with #2, the hop AS1-AS3 is evaluated as = "attested not Provider". That means that the detection of apex/inversion = at the RS (though not visible in the path) is effectively not missed out = by the procedure with #2. 

Thank you.

Sriram    =   

-----Original Message-----
From: = GROW <grow-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Sriram, = Kotikalapudi (Fed)
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 11:34 = AM
To: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>
Cc: Ben Maddison <benm@workonline.africa>; grow@ietf.org; sidrops@ietf.org
Subject: [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: [Sidrops] IXP = Route Server question)

Nick (and all),

I was also rereading/reviewing Section 5.3 and = had similar thoughts about the two options you outlined. As you noted, = "the approach in Section 5.3 gives a workable outcome".  = However... 

>... the RS should be treated as a provider = by the rs client; the rs client should include the RS ASN in its SPAS; = the rs client should evaluate ASPA as if the RS ASN were included in the = path; the rs should evaluate clients as customers

Yes, I agree that "the rs client should include the RS ASN in = its SPAS." Alexander and I have talked about this, and he mentioned that = this would be added to the draft. 

Yes, I also feel that it is a better option that the RS = client adds the ASN of the transparent RS to the AS path (for ASPA = validation purposes only) and applies the downstream ASPA algorithm. = Algorithmically this seems more appropriate. This is also better from a = diagnostics point of view (if the need ever arises) because in this = approach the relevant ASPA is used for validating the hop from the AS = just before the RS to the RS.  

That said, I think there is a bigger issue about transparent = RS in the middle of the AS path. Maybe this is what Ben's question was = hinting at. I think you are also raising this issue when you say:

>RSs do not partake in traffic forwarding, = so they are not part of the data path between two ASNs; they're only = part of the signaling path between the two ASNs.  This is a useful = hack from a practical point of view, but it causes algorithmic breakage = in places which assume congruency between the data plane and the = signaling plane.  One of these places is AS path verification.

> ....ASPA verification should proceed as = if the two rs-client ASNs were directly connected and each should treat = the other as a provider
 
  =   Gyan>I understand the issue with the ASPA path verification, = however if the RS AS added to ASPA then that would influence the = forwarding plane is the issue.  How do you insert RS AS for the = ASPA path verification but not allow RS to be part of forwarding = plane?  I guess you could do a next-hop-unchanged between the = clients connected through the RS.


Based on the above observations = from you, I am proposing the following:

An = RS client of an RS (transparent or not) includes the RS AS in their = SPAS/ASPA. The RS client also includes in its SPAS/ASPA any AS with whom = it connects in the control plane via the RS.

The idea is that a path segment ASx-RS-ASy (where ASx and ASy = are RS-clients connected in BGP via the RS) will be always verifiable = with this proposal whether or not the RS is transparent. If the ASPAs = are created by ASx and ASy per the proposal above, then the ASx-RS-ASy = segment will be evaluated as Valid in either direction. I  think = this proposal in conjunction with other ideas discussed above takes care = of both transparent and non-transparent RSs in the ASPA verification = algorithms. Does this seem reasonable?

Thank = you.

Sriram

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Gyan Mishra
Network Solutions Architect 

M 301 = 502-1347

 
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Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:14:22 -0000 --_000_BYAPR11MB32077BA1382FC96F88A26248C0169BYAPR11MB3207namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VG8gYmUgY2xlYXIsIEknbSB0YWxraW5nIGFib3V0IEJHUCBkZXZpY2VzIHRoYXQgZG8gbm90IGlu c2VydCB0aGVpciBBU04gaW50byB0aGUgQVMgcGF0aC4NCkkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB0aGF0IHJvdXRl IGxlYWtzIGNhbiBoYXBwZW4gYWZ0ZXIgYSByb3V0ZSBzZXJ2ZXIuDQpNeSBwb2ludCBpcyB0aGF0 IHN1Y2ggYSByb3V0ZSBsZWFrIGlzIG9mIG5vIGNvbmNlcm4gdG8gQVNQQS4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywN Ckpha29iLg0KDQpGcm9tOiBKZWZmcmV5IEhhYXMgPGpoYWFzQHBmcmMub3JnPg0KU2VudDogTW9u ZGF5LCBNYXJjaCAyMSwgMjAyMiA5OjQzIEFNDQpUbzogWmh1YW5nc2h1bndhbiA8emh1YW5nc2h1 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(was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 21:09:19 -0000 Hi Jakob, >To be clear, I'm talking about BGP devices that do not insert their ASN in= to the AS path. Even if you assume that all route servers are transparent, what would you l= ike to propose to solve the following problem?=20 AS1 (RS Client) -----> AS2 (RS) -----> AS3 (RS Client) ---p2p (lateral pee= r) ---> AS4 (validating AS) The arrows indicate the direction of the flow of the Update. Let us say tha= t the RS is transparent. AS4 is the receiving/validating AS. The AS path is {AS3 AS1}. Do you agree = this is a route leak as seen at AS4? The question is how will AS4 detect it= ? What ASPAs should be in place? Suppose the RS-clients (i.e., AS1 and AS3) have ASPAs each attesting the RS= 's AS (i.e., AS2) as a provider. That is all that it takes for AS4 to be ab= le to detect the leak. Is there another way? Do we assume that AS1 and AS3 have some other ISP pro= vider(s) for which they have ASPA attestation?=20 In this solution, AS4 does not have to know anything about the presence of = an RS, etc.=20 This solution works fine even if the RS happens to be non-transparent. In an earlier related thread, https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/sidrops/?gbt=3D1&index=3DI2a05YrOE= YrRRdEg1ZHOOln6BCw Nick Hillard and Rob Mosher left the door slightly open for a possibility t= hat there might be a rare RS out there that is non-transparent. Sriram From nobody Mon Mar 21 22:31:42 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3EB13A07D9; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 22:31:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.906 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pJIUvzRHraNN; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 22:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 730FD3A07D7; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 22:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fraeml734-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.200]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4KN0SK5PdHz67bZ4; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:30:25 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepeml100005.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.221) by fraeml734-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.215) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2375.24; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 06:31:28 +0100 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.141) by kwepeml100005.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.21; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:31:26 +0800 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) by kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.021; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:31:26 +0800 From: Zhuangshunwan To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , Jeffrey Haas CC: "sidrops@ietf.org" , "grow@ietf.org" , Nick Hilliard Thread-Topic: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) Thread-Index: AQHYPUcq6Q0d8qhJzU2X5AsQ917b66zJzyEAgAENQ2A= Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 05:31:26 +0000 Message-ID: <473f0482508e4b2e86e76986c74828f9@huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.152.178] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 05:31:40 -0000 Hi Sriram and all, IMO, for the scenario described in the following email (AS4 and AS3 are P2P= connection; AS3 and AS1 are connected via a RS and being treated as a P2P = connection ), it can be determined that AS-PATH: AS4 AS3 AS1 is a route lea= k if one of the following conditions is met: 1. If AS1 is a Tier 1 ISP; 2. AS3 is not included in the set of C2P AS numbers set registered by AS1; 3. Determine that AS1 and AS3 are P2P relationships (one of the ways is to = obtain them is: a) Create a P2P relationships database; b) lookup in the P2= P relationships database); 4. AS4 detects that AS3 and AS1 are interconnected through IXP (for example= , Traceroute), which is equivalent to a specific way of obtaining the P2P r= elationship between AS1 and AS3 in branch 3. 5. Make sure that AS3 is not the Customer of AS1 (it may be P2P, that is, b= ranch 3;(or) it may be P2C). Thanks, Shunwan > -----Original Message----- > From: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) [mailto:kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov] > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:09 AM > To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) ; Jeffrey Haas > Cc: sidrops@ietf.org; grow@ietf.org; Zhuangshunwan > ; Nick Hilliard > Subject: RE: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route > Server question) >=20 > Hi Jakob, >=20 > >To be clear, I'm talking about BGP devices that do not insert their ASN = into > the AS path. >=20 > Even if you assume that all route servers are transparent, what would you > like to propose to solve the following problem? >=20 > AS1 (RS Client) -----> AS2 (RS) -----> AS3 (RS Client) ---p2p (lateral p= eer) ---> > AS4 (validating AS) >=20 > The arrows indicate the direction of the flow of the Update. Let us say t= hat > the RS is transparent. >=20 > AS4 is the receiving/validating AS. The AS path is {AS3 AS1}. Do you agre= e > this is a route leak as seen at AS4? The question is how will AS4 detect = it? > What ASPAs should be in place? >=20 > Suppose the RS-clients (i.e., AS1 and AS3) have ASPAs each attesting the = RS's > AS (i.e., AS2) as a provider. That is all that it takes for AS4 to be abl= e to detect > the leak. >=20 > Is there another way? Do we assume that AS1 and AS3 have some other ISP > provider(s) for which they have ASPA attestation? >=20 > In this solution, AS4 does not have to know anything about the presence o= f > an RS, etc. >=20 > This solution works fine even if the RS happens to be non-transparent. >=20 > In an earlier related thread, >=20 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/sidrops/?gbt=3D1&index=3DI2a05Yr= OEY > rRRdEg1ZHOOln6BCw >=20 > Nick Hillard and Rob Mosher left the door slightly open for a possibility= that > there might be a rare RS out there that is non-transparent. >=20 > Sriram From nobody Tue Mar 22 00:20:18 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A1D23A0B57; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 00:20:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.605 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.605 tagged_above=-999 required=5 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19:14:39 -0000 --00000000000031645705dad36c48 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Howdy GROW Folks! For those in Vienna, happy sleeping time, see you in the 'morning'? :) For those not in Vienna (or not sleeping), but whom have presentations to present at the presentation time... (roughly 15 hrs from 'now') Please send your presentation materials along to: grow-chairs@ietf.org so that we'll be able to properly load up the Meetecho dolla-bill-gun with slides. thanks! -chris (I believe this would mean slides are required from: Paolo - BMP E-bit TLV Sasha - NRTM v4 Camillo - bmp-yang ) --00000000000031645705dad36c48 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Howdy GROW Folks!
For those in Vienna, happy sleeping = time, see you in the 'morning'? :)
For those not in Vienna (or n= ot sleeping), but whom have presentations to present at the presentation ti= me... (roughly 15 hrs from 'now') Please send your presentation mat= erials along to:
=C2=A0 grow-cha= irs@ietf.org

so that we'll be able to prop= erly load up the Meetecho dolla-bill-gun with slides.

<= div>thanks!
-chris

(I believe this would= mean slides are required=C2=A0from:
=C2=A0 Paolo - BMP E-bit TLV
<= div>=C2=A0 Sasha - NRTM v4
=C2=A0 Camillo - bmp-yang
)<= /div>
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(was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 19:02:02 -0000 Hi Shunwan, >> AS1 (RS Client) -----> AS2 (RS) -----> AS3 (RS Client) ---p2p (lateral = peer) ---> AS4 (validating AS) >2. AS3 is not included in the set of C2P AS numbers set registered by AS1; #2 (above) from your list is what we have focused on as a solution. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BYAPR11MB3207.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 191d6b51-b485-4d6a-1437-08da0d004a2e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Mar 2022 19:06:52.0947 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: aFRwPtP62bRk+rBNoaRFd1UVSJWlwgEd1vUiGOE74oLE5S3Y/sazB7Lqv8oAxU9y8aSt6+3S2pHk7P0NSV05+w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN0PR11MB6009 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.210.234, xfe-rtp-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 19:07:08 -0000 If AS1 attests that AS3 is its provider, then there is no leak. That would be weird, but is it illegal? Regards, Jakob. -----Original Message----- From: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) =20 Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 12:01 PM To: Zhuangshunwan ; Jakob Heitz (jheitz) ; Jeffrey Haas Cc: sidrops@ietf.org; grow@ietf.org; Nick Hilliard Subject: RE: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Serv= er question) Hi Shunwan, >> AS1 (RS Client) -----> AS2 (RS) -----> AS3 (RS Client) ---p2p (lateral = peer) ---> AS4 (validating AS) >2. AS3 is not included in the set of C2P AS numbers set registered by AS1; #2 (above) from your list is what we have focused on as a solution. Please = see my previous post responding to Jakob where the set of ASPAs is enumerat= ed. =20 Sriram From nobody Wed Mar 23 12:45:48 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE8D83A099D; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:45:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.112 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.112 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_GOV_DKIM_AU=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nist.gov Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W-XKUiDP5Ive; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GCC02-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm3gcc02on2072c.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:7d04::72c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B9303A0966; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR09MB8142.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ccc14f9b-93a5-437b-f744-08da0d05a6ce X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Mar 2022 19:45:15.0144 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR09MB6798 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 19:45:26 -0000 >If AS1 attests that AS3 is its provider, then there is no leak. >That would be weird, but is it illegal? No that wouldn't work. If you propose that then for an Update that is propa= gating in the opposite direction, you would also want the reverse: 'AS3 att= ests that AS1 is its provider'. That would make AS1 and AS3 siblings. Then = the leak in question will not be detected (the ASPA verification outcome wi= ll be Valid)! 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BYAPR11MB3207.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 57f3f960-7adb-415b-762f-08da0d07a418 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Mar 2022 19:59:29.3939 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: WFOvdkjfwQ3ZKtJCGk/o33v301QC8q9BI+rVH5AGT+zRuQb96GSTJwlR4CDgl0UesTPSmvpIYxTgyQZU1OCK1Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA0PR11MB4541 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.135.121, xfe-aln-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:00:52 -0000 Ok. You are saying that's illegal. A RS rule is that clients cannot be customers or providers of other clients= . That's fine, but it has nothing to do with ASPA. Write it into another draft. Regards, Jakob. -----Original Message----- From: Sidrops On Behalf Of Sriram, Kotikalapudi = (Fed) Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 12:45 PM To: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) ; Zhuangshunwan ; Jeffrey Haas Cc: sidrops@ietf.org; grow@ietf.org; Nick Hilliard Subject: Re: [Sidrops] [GROW] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Serv= er question) >If AS1 attests that AS3 is its provider, then there is no leak. >That would be weird, but is it illegal? No that wouldn't work. If you propose that then for an Update that is propa= gating in the opposite direction, you would also want the reverse: 'AS3 att= ests that AS1 is its provider'. That would make AS1 and AS3 siblings. Then = the leak in question will not be detected (the ASPA verification outcome wi= ll be Valid)! We considered and dismissed it before: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/grow/bfchBrjqMqvMRoP7WrPR-OKOXT8/ Sriram =20 _______________________________________________ Sidrops mailing list Sidrops@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidrops From nobody Wed Mar 23 13:29:16 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E28013A07A0; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 13:29:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.112 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.112 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_GOV_DKIM_AU=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nist.gov Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p1U0obkXIRtv; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR09MB8142.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 54aa47be-d402-4364-991a-08da0d0bc623 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Mar 2022 20:29:04.5432 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR09MB6976 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 20:29:14 -0000 Hi Jeff, Thank you. We are now in sync with you. The design focuses only on transpar= ent RS (i.e., the RS ASN does not appear in the AS path in BGP). We are ass= uming that non-transparent RS is rare/abnormal. =20 It turns out that the solution that works for transparent RS also works for= non-transparent RS with no extra effort. Just an observation, not saying t= hat the non-transparent RS case has any importance.=20 I have a talk in SIDROPS on Friday where the WG discussions will be summari= zed and a solution presented:=20 "ASPA Verification Procedures: Enhancements and RS Considerations". Sriram =20 From: Jeffrey Haas =20 Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 12:43 PM To: Zhuangshunwan Cc: Jakob Heitz (jheitz) ; Gyan Mishra ; Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) ; Ben Maddi= son ; sidrops@ietf.org; grow@ietf.org Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Serv= er question) Two comments here: If the BGP Speaker is inserting itself into the AS_PATH, it's not really a = Route Server in the traditional sense. A normal BGP Speaker can happily pass along routes via eBGP peering with th= e nexthop unchanged with all devices that it shares a common nexthop subnet= with. My recommendation is to not to try to consider these devices a Route Server= . =A0For ASPA purposes, just add the BGP connections to the inputs. If providers are unhappy with having a IXP router's AS in the ASPA data and= thus lose the desired ASPA filtering properties, the IXP should install a = real route server. -- Jeff From nobody Thu Mar 24 05:19:55 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: grow@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F00F73A1111; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 05:19:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.907 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.907 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9CTu1P8NXofm; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 05:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73A0E3A0E1D; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 05:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fraeml715-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.207]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4KPPQ86PVzz67yJg; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:18:24 +0800 (CST) Received: from kwepeml500001.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.162) by fraeml715-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2375.24; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 13:19:34 +0100 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.141) by kwepeml500001.china.huawei.com (7.221.188.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.21; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:19:33 +0800 Received: from kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) by kwepeml500004.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.141]) with mapi id 15.01.2308.021; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:19:33 +0800 From: Zhuangshunwan To: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" , "Jakob Heitz (jheitz)" , Jeffrey Haas CC: "sidrops@ietf.org" , "grow@ietf.org" , Nick Hilliard Thread-Topic: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) Thread-Index: AQHYPULXMMKnMnklKEmxZqImduurxazKE6GAgAA0FfCAAJnqAIACbjJQgAEiQvA= Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 12:19:32 +0000 Message-ID: <1261bf25fc5e49b7a09a3837eafa668b@huawei.com> References: <473f0482508e4b2e86e76986c74828f9@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.152.178] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route Server question) X-BeenThere: grow@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Grow Working Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 12:19:46 -0000 Hi Sriram, Functionally, your solution does detect the route leak. But the actual operation may be difficult, how to encourage so many RS Clie= nts to claim their ASPAs? Or do we need to create an ASPA database with such ASPAs locally by collect= ing and analyzing Internet routing and data? In a project I've been through, we did do something similar. We mine those = RS Clients that are interconnected by IXP RS, and then create a P2P relatio= nal database for them. Take the following topology as an example: AS1 (RS Client) -----> AS2 (RS) -----> AS3 (RS Client) ---p2p (lateral pee= r) ---> AS4 (validating AS) \ \ AS5(RS Client)=20 By some probing we can find AS1/AS3/AS5 are AS2 (RS)'s clients, so we can a= dd AS-Pairs: {AS1 AS3}, {AS1 AS5}, {AS3 AS5} into the local P2P AS-Relation= ships database. By the similar method, we can also create a local RS-Client to RS ASPA data= base.=20 Kind Regards, Shunwan > -----Original Message----- > From: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) [mailto:kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov] > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 3:01 AM > To: Zhuangshunwan ; Jakob Heitz (jheitz) > ; Jeffrey Haas > Cc: sidrops@ietf.org; grow@ietf.org; Nick Hilliard > Subject: RE: [GROW] [Sidrops] ASPA and Route Server (was RE: IXP Route > Server question) >=20 > Hi Shunwan, >=20 > >> AS1 (RS Client) -----> AS2 (RS) -----> AS3 (RS Client) ---p2p (latera= l peer) ---> > AS4 (validating AS) >=20 > >2. AS3 is not included in the set of C2P AS numbers set registered by AS= 1; >=20 > #2 (above) from your list is what we have focused on as a solution. Pleas= e > see my previous post responding to Jakob where the set of ASPAs is > enumerated. >=20 > Sriram