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From: Majordomo@corp.webtv.net
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From ipvbi-owner@corp.webtv.net Wed Nov 4 23:45:16 1998
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Message-ID:
From: "Ruston Panabaker (Bradson Staffing Services)"
To: ipvbi@corp.webtv.net
Subject: back on mail...
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:43:20 -0800
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9)
FYI, I have been off the IP over VBI email reflector for a couple weeks.
Hope I haven't missed any exciting email exchanges!
Dan recently sent a last call to the group for the North American standard
for IP over VBI. If anyone has any feedback, now is the time to speak up.
I basically went through our last draft and took out all reference to WST,
removed the ability to send IP fragments with compressed headers, and
included the UDP checksum back into the compressed header.
I would also like to make headway on the WST draft before the Dec meeting.
I think we all understand the issues and have to decide on a standard that
will allow us to get on with creating services and interoperable systems.
Cheers,
Ruston
Ruston Panabaker
TV-Guy
Microsoft
www.microsoft.com/dtv
From ipvbi-owner@corp.webtv.net Fri Nov 6 07:14:10 1998
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From: AlphaCom
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 06:40:11
Subject: Cheap PC Parts and Internet Services
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From ipvbi-owner@corp.webtv.net Sun Nov 15 05:58:45 1998
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From: djz@corp.webtv.net
Reply-To:
Sender: "Dan Zigmond"
To:
Subject: FW: 43rd IETF-ORLANDO, FL: IPVBI
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 02:57:11 -0800
Message-ID: <15AAE0EBDCC9D1119FFA00805F85642E012CA099@WNI-MSG-02>
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Here is the confirmation of our next in-person meeting. I hope to see
all of you there.
Please send me any specific issues you have that you would like to see
on the agenda. I will post an agenda to the mailing list shortly.
Dan
---------------------------------------------------
Dan Zigmond
Co-Manager, Interactive Television
Senior Manager, Interactive Television Standards
WebTV Networks, Inc.
djz@corp.webtv.net
---------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcia Beaulieu [mailto:mbeaulie@ietf.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 2:18 PM
To: djz@corp.webtv.net
Cc: burgan@home.net; narten@raleigh.ibm.com
Subject: 43rd IETF-ORLANDO, FL: IPVBI
This is to confirm one session for IPVBI as follows:
Thursday, December 10 at 1300-1500
other groups scheduled at that time: idr, saag, avt
Please submit an agenda for these meeting as soon as possible, the
deadline for submitting the agenda is November 30 at 1200 noon ET.
Thanks,
Marcia
**********************************************************************
Marcia Beaulieu
Meeting Coordinator
Voice: 703-620-8990 ext. 210
Fax: 703-620-9071
From ipvbi-owner@corp.webtv.net Sun Nov 15 06:10:14 1998
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Subject: RDR:FW: 43rd IETF-ORLANDO, FL: IPVBI
Discarded-X400-IPMS-Extensions: iso (1) (3) (6) (1) (7) internet.7 (1)
internet.7.1 (1) internet.7.1.1 (3)
Here is the confirmation of our next in-person meeting. I hope to
see
all of you there.
Please send me any specific issues you have that you would like to see
on the agenda. I will post an agenda to the mailing list shortly.
Dan
---------------------------------------------------
Dan Zigmond
Co-Manager, Interactive Television
Senior Manager, Interactive Television Standards
WebTV Networks, Inc.
djz@corp.webtv.net
---------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcia Beaulieu [mailto:mbeaulie@ietf.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 2:18 PM
To: djz@corp.webtv.net
Cc: burgan@home.net; narten@raleigh.ibm.com
Subject: 43rd IETF-ORLANDO, FL: IPVBI
This is to confirm one session for IPVBI as follows:
Thursday, December 10 at 1300-1500
other groups scheduled at that time: idr, saag, avt
Please submit an agenda for these meeting as soon as possible, the
deadline for submitting the agenda is November 30 at 1200 noon ET.
Thanks,
Marcia
**********************************************************************
Marcia Beaulieu
Meeting Coordinator
Voice: 703-620-8990 ext. 210
Fax: 703-620-9071
From ipvbi-owner@corp.webtv.net Tue Nov 17 14:13:38 1998
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Message-ID: <3651C791.678FC804@norpak.ca>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:59:29 -0500
From: jimcarr
Organization: norpak corporation
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To: djz@corp.webtv.net
CC: ipvbi@corp.webtv.net
Subject: Re: WG LAST CALL: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
References: <15AAE0EBDCC9D1119FFA00805F85642E012CA054@WNI-MSG-02>
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Dan:
I have a number or rather mundane minor changes I would like to suggest
which most will find quite boring I am sure..... they are:
1. The Table of Contents needs the pages to be renumbered and the last
two section numbers do not follow .. they should be 13 and 14.
2. The last paragraph of Page 1, second line, should include references as
follows: "....(NABTS), REF. [2]...."
3. The last paragraph of Page 1, line 10 should read: "....NABTS, (REF. [5] & [6])..."
4. Section 5.1 should refer to 525 and 635 line systems, not the colour
encoding method and the US is not the only country using 525 lines. Suggest
Section 5.1.1 read as follows:
"5.1.1. 525 line systems
An 525 television frame is comprised of 2 fields of 262.5 horizontal
scan lines each. The first 21 lines of each field are not part of the
visible picture and are collectively called the Vertical Blanking
Interval (VBI). Of these 21 lines the first 9 are used while
repositioning the cathode ray to the top of the screen, but the
remaining lines are available for data transport.
There are 12 possible VBI lines being broadcast 60 times a second (each
field 30 times a second). In some countries Line 21 is reserved for the
transport of closed captioning data (Ref.[10]). In that case there are
11 possible VBI lines, some or all of which could be used for multicast
IP transport. It should be noted that some of these lines are sometimes
used for existing, proprietary, data and testing services. Multicast
IP therefore becomes one more data service using a subset or all of
these lines.
5. Section 5.1 VBI has a sub-section 5.1.2 is missing. It should read
something like:
"5.1.2 625 Line Systems
A 625-line television frame is comprised of 2 fields of 312.5 horizontal
scan lines each. The first few lines of each field are used while
repositioning the cathode ray to the top of the screen. The lines
available for data insertion are 6-22 in the first field and 319-335 in
the second field.
There are therefore 17 possible VBI lines being broadcast 50 times a
second (each field 25 times a second), some or all of which could be
used for multicast IP transport. It should be noted that some of these
lines are sometimes used for existing, proprietary, data and testing
services. Multicast IP therefore becomes one more data service using a
subset or all of these lines."
6. Section 5.2, first paragraph, should read "... Electronic Industry
Association's EIA-516 and ITU.R BT.653-2, system C".
7. Page 4 (a typical example) refers to "Packet Group address" but in
NABTS the terminology used is "Packet Address".
8. Page 4, third paragraph, 7th line should read: ".....length of the
suffix of the...."
9. Page 4, third paragraph, the addition of a small table might make
this clearer. A suggestion is:
TYPE OF PACKET PS
-------------------------------------------
Data Packet, no filler D0
Data Packet, with filler 8C
FEC Packet A1
10. Last paragraph of Section 5.3, 2nd line should read: "If single bit
errors, double bit errors, single byte errors or single and double byte
erasures are found ...."
I hope this is of assistance.
Cheers
Jim Carruthers
----------------
djz@corp.webtv.net wrote:
>
> I am issuing a working group last call for our IP over NABTS
> Internet-Draft. This means that my understanding is that we've achieved
> consensus on the IP over NABTS issues and are ready to forward the draft
> to the IESG to be considered as a standards-track RFC. If people within
> the working group have any objections to the draft as it stands, they
> should be raised now.
>
> I think a two-week review period should be sufficient, so this last call
> will end on Wednesday, November 18th. Please read the draft carefully
> if you have not already done so and forward any concerns to the list.
>
> Our last substantive discussion on the list revolved around the issue of
> how to divide the previous draft: the consensus at the face to face
> meeting was to divide into a NABTS draft and a WST draft, but some
> argued for a 525 draft and a 625 draft. I only draw attention to this
> because my own view was that there were no compelling reasons to switch
> from the NABTS/WST split to the 525/625 split, but if anyone still feels
> they can make a strong case they should do so now so we can make a final
> decision and move on.
>
> Thanks to everyone who has participated so far, and I look forward to
> reading your comments during this final review. Then we can dive right
> in to the WST draft.
>
> Dan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Dan Zigmond
> Co-Manager, Interactive Television
> Senior Manager, Interactive Television Standards
> WebTV Networks, Inc.
> djz@corp.webtv.net
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cclark@ns.cnri.reston.va.us [mailto:cclark@ns.cnri.reston.va.us]
> On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 7:21 AM
> To: IETF-Announce: ;
> Cc: ipvbi@corp.webtv.net
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the IP over VBI Working Group of the IETF.
>
> Title : THE TRANSMISSION OF IP OVER THE VERTICAL BLANKING
> INTERVAL OF A TELEVISION SIGNAL
> Author(s) : R. Panabaker, S. Wegerif, D. Zigmond
> Filename : draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
> Pages : 21
> Date : 22-Oct-98
>
> This is an Internet-Draft, which describes a method for broadcasting
> multicast IP data using the vertical blanking interval of television
> signals. It includes a description for compressing multicast IP headers
> on unidirectional networks, a framing protocol identical to SLIP, a
> forward error correction scheme, and the NABTS byte structures.
>
> Keywords: VBI, broadcast, push, FEC, television, NABTS, IP, multicast.
>
> Internet-Drafts are available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
> "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
> type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> "get draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt".
> A URL for the Internet-Draft is:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
>
> Internet-Drafts directories are located at:
>
> Africa: ftp.is.co.za
>
> Europe: ftp.nordu.net
> ftp.nis.garr.it
>
> Pacific Rim: munnari.oz.au
>
> US East Coast: ftp.ietf.org
>
> US West Coast: ftp.isi.edu
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by mail.
>
> Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type:
> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt".
>
> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this
> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> how to manipulate these messages.
>
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
From ipvbi-owner@corp.webtv.net Tue Nov 17 14:14:08 1998
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:02:17 -0500
From: jimcarr
Organization: norpak corporation
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CC: ipvbi@corp.webtv.net
Subject: Re: WG LAST CALL: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
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some small corrections to my small corrections .... Jim
Dan:
I have a number of rather mundane minor changes I would like to suggest
which most will find quite boring I am sure..... they are:
1. The Table of Contents needs the pages to be renumbered and the last
two section numbers do not follow .. they should be 13 and 14.
2. The last paragraph of Page 1, second line, should include references as
follows: "....(NABTS), REF. [2]...."
3. The last paragraph of Page 1, line 10 should read: "....NABTS, (REF. [5] & [6])..."
4. Section 5.1 should refer to 525 and 625 line systems, not the colour
encoding method and the US is not the only country using 525 lines. Suggest
Section 5.1.1 read as follows:
"5.1.1. 525 line systems
An 525 television frame is comprised of 2 fields of 262.5 horizontal
scan lines each. The first 21 lines of each field are not part of the
visible picture and are collectively called the Vertical Blanking
Interval (VBI). Of these 21 lines the first 9 are used while
repositioning the cathode ray to the top of the screen, but the
remaining lines are available for data transport.
There are 12 possible VBI lines being broadcast 60 times a second (each
field 30 times a second). In some countries Line 21 is reserved for the
transport of closed captioning data (Ref.[10]). In that case there are
11 possible VBI lines, some or all of which could be used for multicast
IP transport. It should be noted that some of these lines are sometimes
used for existing, proprietary, data and testing services. Multicast
IP therefore becomes one more data service using a subset or all of
these lines.
5. Section 5.1 VBI has a sub-section 5.1.2 is missing. It should read
something like:
"5.1.2 625 Line Systems
A 625-line television frame is comprised of 2 fields of 312.5 horizontal
scan lines each. The first few lines of each field are used while
repositioning the cathode ray to the top of the screen. The lines
available for data insertion are 6-22 in the first field and 319-335 in
the second field.
There are therefore 17 possible VBI lines being broadcast 50 times a
second (each field 25 times a second), some or all of which could be
used for multicast IP transport. It should be noted that some of these
lines are sometimes used for existing, proprietary, data and testing
services. Multicast IP therefore becomes one more data service using a
subset or all of these lines."
6. Section 5.2, first paragraph, should read "... Electronic Industry
Association's EIA-516 and ITU.R BT.653-2, system C".
7. Page 4 (a typical example) refers to "Packet Group address" but in
NABTS the terminology used is "Packet Address".
8. Page 4, third paragraph, 7th line should read: ".....length of the
suffix of the...."
9. Page 4, third paragraph, the addition of a small table might make
this clearer. A suggestion is:
TYPE OF PACKET PS
-------------------------------------------
Data Packet, no filler D0
Data Packet, with filler 8C
FEC Packet A1
10. Last paragraph of Section 5.3, 2nd line should read: "If single bit
errors, double bit errors, single byte errors or single and double byte
erasures are found ...."
I hope this is of assistance.
Cheers
Jim Carruthers
----------------
djz@corp.webtv.net wrote:
>
> I am issuing a working group last call for our IP over NABTS
> Internet-Draft. This means that my understanding is that we've achieved
> consensus on the IP over NABTS issues and are ready to forward the draft
> to the IESG to be considered as a standards-track RFC. If people within
> the working group have any objections to the draft as it stands, they
> should be raised now.
>
> I think a two-week review period should be sufficient, so this last call
> will end on Wednesday, November 18th. Please read the draft carefully
> if you have not already done so and forward any concerns to the list.
>
> Our last substantive discussion on the list revolved around the issue of
> how to divide the previous draft: the consensus at the face to face
> meeting was to divide into a NABTS draft and a WST draft, but some
> argued for a 525 draft and a 625 draft. I only draw attention to this
> because my own view was that there were no compelling reasons to switch
> from the NABTS/WST split to the 525/625 split, but if anyone still feels
> they can make a strong case they should do so now so we can make a final
> decision and move on.
>
> Thanks to everyone who has participated so far, and I look forward to
> reading your comments during this final review. Then we can dive right
> in to the WST draft.
>
> Dan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Dan Zigmond
> Co-Manager, Interactive Television
> Senior Manager, Interactive Television Standards
> WebTV Networks, Inc.
> djz@corp.webtv.net
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cclark@ns.cnri.reston.va.us [mailto:cclark@ns.cnri.reston.va.us]
> On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 7:21 AM
> To: IETF-Announce: ;
> Cc: ipvbi@corp.webtv.net
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the IP over VBI Working Group of the IETF.
>
> Title : THE TRANSMISSION OF IP OVER THE VERTICAL BLANKING
> INTERVAL OF A TELEVISION SIGNAL
> Author(s) : R. Panabaker, S. Wegerif, D. Zigmond
> Filename : draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
> Pages : 21
> Date : 22-Oct-98
>
> This is an Internet-Draft, which describes a method for broadcasting
> multicast IP data using the vertical blanking interval of television
> signals. It includes a description for compressing multicast IP headers
> on unidirectional networks, a framing protocol identical to SLIP, a
> forward error correction scheme, and the NABTS byte structures.
>
> Keywords: VBI, broadcast, push, FEC, television, NABTS, IP, multicast.
>
> Internet-Drafts are available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
> "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
> type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> "get draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt".
> A URL for the Internet-Draft is:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
>
> Internet-Drafts directories are located at:
>
> Africa: ftp.is.co.za
>
> Europe: ftp.nordu.net
> ftp.nis.garr.it
>
> Pacific Rim: munnari.oz.au
>
> US East Coast: ftp.ietf.org
>
> US West Coast: ftp.isi.edu
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by mail.
>
> Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type:
> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt".
>
> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this
> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> how to manipulate these messages.
>
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
From ipvbi-owner@corp.webtv.net Tue Nov 17 14:31:42 1998
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:23:35 +0100
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From: jimcarr
To: "djz@corp.webtv.net" (Non Receipt Notification
Requested) (IPM Return Requested),
ANNE.BENOIT@WANADOO.FR (Non Receipt
Notification Requested) (IPM Return Requested)
Cc: "ipvbi@corp.webtv.net" (Non Receipt Notification
Requested) (IPM Return Requested),
BENOIT Anne BGP/DMM
(Non Receipt Notification Requested) (IPM
Return Requested)
Subject: RDR:Re: WG LAST CALL: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
Discarded-X400-IPMS-Extensions: iso (1) (3) (6) (1) (7) internet.7 (1)
internet.7.1 (1) internet.7.1.1 (3)
Dan:
I have a number or rather mundane minor changes I would like to suggest
which most will find quite boring I am sure..... they are:
1. The Table of Contents needs the pages to be renumbered and the last
two section numbers do not follow .. they should be 13 and 14.
2. The last paragraph of Page 1, second line, should include references as
follows: "....(NABTS), REF. [2]...."
3. The last paragraph of Page 1, line 10 should read: "....NABTS, (REF. [5] &
[6])..."
4. Section 5.1 should refer to 525 and 635 line systems, not the colour
encoding method and the US is not the only country using 525 lines. Suggest
Section 5.1.1 read as follows:
"5.1.1. 525 line systems
An 525 television frame is comprised of 2 fields of 262.5 horizontal
scan lines each. The first 21 lines of each field are not part of the
visible picture and are collectively called the Vertical Blanking
Interval (VBI). Of these 21 lines the first 9 are used while
repositioning the cathode ray to the top of the screen, but the
remaining lines are available for data transport.
There are 12 possible VBI lines being broadcast 60 times a second (each
field 30 times a second). In some countries Line 21 is reserved for the
transport of closed captioning data (Ref.[10]). In that case there are
11 possible VBI lines, some or all of which could be used for multicast
IP transport. It should be noted that some of these lines are sometimes
used for existing, proprietary, data and testing services. Multicast
IP therefore becomes one more data service using a subset or all of
these lines.
5. Section 5.1 VBI has a sub-section 5.1.2 is missing. It should read
something like:
"5.1.2 625 Line Systems
A 625-line television frame is comprised of 2 fields of 312.5 horizontal
scan lines each. The first few lines of each field are used while
repositioning the cathode ray to the top of the screen. The lines
available for data insertion are 6-22 in the first field and 319-335 in
the second field.
There are therefore 17 possible VBI lines being broadcast 50 times a
second (each field 25 times a second), some or all of which could be
used for multicast IP transport. It should be noted that some of these
lines are sometimes used for existing, proprietary, data and testing
services. Multicast IP therefore becomes one more data service using a
subset or all of these lines."
6. Section 5.2, first paragraph, should read "... Electronic Industry
Association's EIA-516 and ITU.R BT.653-2, system C".
7. Page 4 (a typical example) refers to "Packet Group address" but in
NABTS the terminology used is "Packet Address".
8. Page 4, third paragraph, 7th line should read: ".....length of the
suffix of the...."
9. Page 4, third paragraph, the addition of a small table might make
this clearer. A suggestion is:
TYPE OF PACKET PS
-------------------------------------------
Data Packet, no filler D0
Data Packet, with filler 8C
FEC Packet A1
10. Last paragraph of Section 5.3, 2nd line should read: "If single bit
errors, double bit errors, single byte errors or single and double byte
erasures are found ...."
I hope this is of assistance.
Cheers
Jim Carruthers
----------------
djz@corp.webtv.net wrote:
>
> I am issuing a working group last call for our IP over NABTS
> Internet-Draft. This means that my understanding is that we've achieved
> consensus on the IP over NABTS issues and are ready to forward the draft
> to the IESG to be considered as a standards-track RFC. If people within
> the working group have any objections to the draft as it stands, they
> should be raised now.
>
> I think a two-week review period should be sufficient, so this last call
> will end on Wednesday, November 18th. Please read the draft carefully
> if you have not already done so and forward any concerns to the list.
>
> Our last substantive discussion on the list revolved around the issue of
> how to divide the previous draft: the consensus at the face to face
> meeting was to divide into a NABTS draft and a WST draft, but some
> argued for a 525 draft and a 625 draft. I only draw attention to this
> because my own view was that there were no compelling reasons to switch
> from the NABTS/WST split to the 525/625 split, but if anyone still feels
> they can make a strong case they should do so now so we can make a final
> decision and move on.
>
> Thanks to everyone who has participated so far, and I look forward to
> reading your comments during this final review. Then we can dive right
> in to the WST draft.
>
> Dan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Dan Zigmond
> Co-Manager, Interactive Television
> Senior Manager, Interactive Television Standards
> WebTV Networks, Inc.
> djz@corp.webtv.net
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cclark@ns.cnri.reston.va.us [mailto:cclark@ns.cnri.reston.va.us]
> On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 7:21 AM
> To: IETF-Announce: ;
> Cc: ipvbi@corp.webtv.net
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the IP over VBI Working Group of the IETF.
>
> Title : THE TRANSMISSION OF IP OVER THE VERTICAL BLANKING
> INTERVAL OF A TELEVISION SIGNAL
> Author(s) : R. Panabaker, S. Wegerif, D. Zigmond
> Filename : draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
> Pages : 21
> Date : 22-Oct-98
>
> This is an Internet-Draft, which describes a method for broadcasting
> multicast IP data using the vertical blanking interval of television
> signals. It includes a description for compressing multicast IP headers
> on unidirectional networks, a framing protocol identical to SLIP, a
> forward error correction scheme, and the NABTS byte structures.
>
> Keywords: VBI, broadcast, push, FEC, television, NABTS, IP, multicast.
>
> Internet-Drafts are available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
> "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
> type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> "get draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt".
> A URL for the Internet-Draft is:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
>
> Internet-Drafts directories are located at:
>
> Africa: ftp.is.co.za
>
> Europe: ftp.nordu.net
> ftp.nis.garr.it
>
> Pacific Rim: munnari.oz.au
>
> US East Coast: ftp.ietf.org
>
> US West Coast: ftp.isi.edu
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by mail.
>
> Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type:
> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt".
>
> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this
> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> how to manipulate these messages.
>
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
From ipvbi-owner@corp.webtv.net Tue Nov 17 14:59:13 1998
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From: jimcarr
To: "djz@corp.webtv.net" (Non Receipt Notification
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ANNE.BENOIT@WANADOO.FR (Non Receipt
Notification Requested) (IPM Return Requested)
Cc: "ipvbi@corp.webtv.net" (Non Receipt Notification
Requested) (IPM Return Requested),
BENOIT Anne BGP/DMM
(Non Receipt Notification Requested) (IPM
Return Requested)
Subject: RDR:Re: WG LAST CALL: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
Discarded-X400-IPMS-Extensions: iso (1) (3) (6) (1) (7) internet.7 (1)
internet.7.1 (1) internet.7.1.1 (3)
some small corrections to my small corrections .... Jim
Dan:
I have a number of rather mundane minor changes I would like to suggest
which most will find quite boring I am sure..... they are:
1. The Table of Contents needs the pages to be renumbered and the last
two section numbers do not follow .. they should be 13 and 14.
2. The last paragraph of Page 1, second line, should include references as
follows: "....(NABTS), REF. [2]...."
3. The last paragraph of Page 1, line 10 should read: "....NABTS, (REF. [5] &
[6])..."
4. Section 5.1 should refer to 525 and 625 line systems, not the colour
encoding method and the US is not the only country using 525 lines. Suggest
Section 5.1.1 read as follows:
"5.1.1. 525 line systems
An 525 television frame is comprised of 2 fields of 262.5 horizontal
scan lines each. The first 21 lines of each field are not part of the
visible picture and are collectively called the Vertical Blanking
Interval (VBI). Of these 21 lines the first 9 are used while
repositioning the cathode ray to the top of the screen, but the
remaining lines are available for data transport.
There are 12 possible VBI lines being broadcast 60 times a second (each
field 30 times a second). In some countries Line 21 is reserved for the
transport of closed captioning data (Ref.[10]). In that case there are
11 possible VBI lines, some or all of which could be used for multicast
IP transport. It should be noted that some of these lines are sometimes
used for existing, proprietary, data and testing services. Multicast
IP therefore becomes one more data service using a subset or all of
these lines.
5. Section 5.1 VBI has a sub-section 5.1.2 is missing. It should read
something like:
"5.1.2 625 Line Systems
A 625-line television frame is comprised of 2 fields of 312.5 horizontal
scan lines each. The first few lines of each field are used while
repositioning the cathode ray to the top of the screen. The lines
available for data insertion are 6-22 in the first field and 319-335 in
the second field.
There are therefore 17 possible VBI lines being broadcast 50 times a
second (each field 25 times a second), some or all of which could be
used for multicast IP transport. It should be noted that some of these
lines are sometimes used for existing, proprietary, data and testing
services. Multicast IP therefore becomes one more data service using a
subset or all of these lines."
6. Section 5.2, first paragraph, should read "... Electronic Industry
Association's EIA-516 and ITU.R BT.653-2, system C".
7. Page 4 (a typical example) refers to "Packet Group address" but in
NABTS the terminology used is "Packet Address".
8. Page 4, third paragraph, 7th line should read: ".....length of the
suffix of the...."
9. Page 4, third paragraph, the addition of a small table might make
this clearer. A suggestion is:
TYPE OF PACKET PS
-------------------------------------------
Data Packet, no filler D0
Data Packet, with filler 8C
FEC Packet A1
10. Last paragraph of Section 5.3, 2nd line should read: "If single bit
errors, double bit errors, single byte errors or single and double byte
erasures are found ...."
I hope this is of assistance.
Cheers
Jim Carruthers
----------------
djz@corp.webtv.net wrote:
>
> I am issuing a working group last call for our IP over NABTS
> Internet-Draft. This means that my understanding is that we've achieved
> consensus on the IP over NABTS issues and are ready to forward the draft
> to the IESG to be considered as a standards-track RFC. If people within
> the working group have any objections to the draft as it stands, they
> should be raised now.
>
> I think a two-week review period should be sufficient, so this last call
> will end on Wednesday, November 18th. Please read the draft carefully
> if you have not already done so and forward any concerns to the list.
>
> Our last substantive discussion on the list revolved around the issue of
> how to divide the previous draft: the consensus at the face to face
> meeting was to divide into a NABTS draft and a WST draft, but some
> argued for a 525 draft and a 625 draft. I only draw attention to this
> because my own view was that there were no compelling reasons to switch
> from the NABTS/WST split to the 525/625 split, but if anyone still feels
> they can make a strong case they should do so now so we can make a final
> decision and move on.
>
> Thanks to everyone who has participated so far, and I look forward to
> reading your comments during this final review. Then we can dive right
> in to the WST draft.
>
> Dan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Dan Zigmond
> Co-Manager, Interactive Television
> Senior Manager, Interactive Television Standards
> WebTV Networks, Inc.
> djz@corp.webtv.net
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cclark@ns.cnri.reston.va.us [mailto:cclark@ns.cnri.reston.va.us]
> On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 7:21 AM
> To: IETF-Announce: ;
> Cc: ipvbi@corp.webtv.net
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the IP over VBI Working Group of the IETF.
>
> Title : THE TRANSMISSION OF IP OVER THE VERTICAL BLANKING
> INTERVAL OF A TELEVISION SIGNAL
> Author(s) : R. Panabaker, S. Wegerif, D. Zigmond
> Filename : draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
> Pages : 21
> Date : 22-Oct-98
>
> This is an Internet-Draft, which describes a method for broadcasting
> multicast IP data using the vertical blanking interval of television
> signals. It includes a description for compressing multicast IP headers
> on unidirectional networks, a framing protocol identical to SLIP, a
> forward error correction scheme, and the NABTS byte structures.
>
> Keywords: VBI, broadcast, push, FEC, television, NABTS, IP, multicast.
>
> Internet-Drafts are available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
> "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
> type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> "get draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt".
> A URL for the Internet-Draft is:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt
>
> Internet-Drafts directories are located at:
>
> Africa: ftp.is.co.za
>
> Europe: ftp.nordu.net
> ftp.nis.garr.it
>
> Pacific Rim: munnari.oz.au
>
> US East Coast: ftp.ietf.org
>
> US West Coast: ftp.isi.edu
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by mail.
>
> Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type:
> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipvbi-nabts-00.txt".
>
> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this
> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> how to manipulate these messages.
>
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
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From ipvbi-owner@corp.webtv.net Mon Nov 30 18:52:54 1998
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From: Marcel McNicoll
To: djz@corp.webtv.net
Cc: ipvbi@corp.webtv.net, "'mbeaulie@ietf.org'" ,
"Jean-Etienne Gaudreau (E-mail)" ,
"Patrick Gilbert (E-mail)" ,
"'burgan@home.net'"
,
"'narten@raleigh.ibm.com'"
Subject: IP over VBI Proposal - Request for a special discussion at IETF m
eeting
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:49:05 -0500
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WavePhore WaveTop, Inc. is requesting a special discussion (BOF) during the
IPVBI working group session in Orlando, on Thursday, December 10. We
understand we're a bit late, regarding the normal procedure for such
request, though it was originally sent personally to Dan Zigmond on November
18th. But we firmly believe its significance is critical enough to pursue it
at this point in time. We also understand that, due to the already short
time devoted to the session (1300-1500h), you might not find the time frame
to fully discussed this issue into the existing IPVBI Working Group agenda.
In this case, we can propose an "extended" discussion at a different
location - provided by us - in the days before or after the formal IPVBI
session.
The following is a description of the issue we want to address.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
As you know, WavePhore is a Media Delivery company that has been involved in
data broadcasting technology and services for years. More specifically, we
have developed and are using VBI technologies and protocols for the delivery
of WaveTop, our consumer service.
We started engineering VBI technology in the eighties when data broadcasting
or the Internet were unknown, and we are now at our fourth generation and
more of VBI codecs, protocols and forward error correction (FEC). During
that time our VBI systems have evolved from being entirely proprietary, to
adopting open standards such as UDP and IP Multicast.
We have recently joined the ATVEF as an adopter, and are participating in
the process of preparing the Advanced TV specification. We initially
believed that the specification would define standards starting at a level
common to any ATVEF distribution network, whether analog or digital, hence
beginning at the transport level: IP Multicast. In that scenario, the
actual binding of IP Multicast to NABTS would have been open, and WavePhore
or any other provider could have used the framing, network layer and FEC of
his choice while preserving compatibility at the transport layer.
We learned however that the ATVEF intended to recommend the usage of the IP
over VBI binding proposed by the IETF, and that adoption of this
specification would be required for compliance. We are familiar with the
IETF proposed standard because it has evolved from the same scheme initially
developed by Canadian researchers in the '80s that we have also been using
as a base. The IETF proposed standard is similar the FEC WavePhore was
using about 4 years ago, but we have made some significant improvements to
it since then, and has plans to still improve it in the upcoming months.
It is WavePhore's intent to make its systems ATVEF compliant, but at the
same time, it wouldn't make sense for us to roll back to technologies that
we have been using before, and that we believe are less performant than what
we are using today. We believe the ATVEF and the industry in general can
greatly benefit from the improvements we made to VBI data broadcasting
technology, and from our experience in operating the only nationwide
commercial service delivered through VBI. Therefore, WavePhore wishes to
present its improvements to VBI protocols and FEC to the IETF, with the
objective of incorporating them into the proposed standard. Our
improvements touch primarily:
* FEC improvement for Multi-line (high bandwidth) reliability
* Flexible framing
* Optimization for Ghost canceling and Adaptive equalizing
* Protocol overhead reduction
We will be more than glad to share the technical details of our protocol and
FEC with you and the IETF sub-committee when appropriate. It is our intent
to participate in the upcoming IETF meeting in Orlando.
Marcel Mc Nicoll
Streaming and Interactive Media Specialist
WaveTop Lead Technology Group
marcel@wavetop.net
on behalf of:
Patrick Gilbert
patrick@wavetop.net
Sr. Vice-President & CTO
WavePhore WaveTop, Inc.
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From: Marcel McNicoll
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Subject: RDR:IP over VBI Proposal - Request for a special discussion at IETF
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WavePhore WaveTop, Inc. is requesting a special discussion (BOF)
during the
IPVBI working group session in Orlando, on Thursday, December 10. We
understand we're a bit late, regarding the normal procedure for such
request, though it was originally sent personally to Dan Zigmond on November
18th. But we firmly believe its significance is critical enough to pursue it
at this point in time. We also understand that, due to the already short
time devoted to the session (1300-1500h), you might not find the time frame
to fully discussed this issue into the existing IPVBI Working Group agenda.
In this case, we can propose an "extended" discussion at a different
location - provided by us - in the days before or after the formal IPVBI
session.
The following is a description of the issue we want to address.
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As you know, WavePhore is a Media Delivery company that has been involved in
data broadcasting technology and services for years. More specifically, we
have developed and are using VBI technologies and protocols for the delivery
of WaveTop, our consumer service.
We started engineering VBI technology in the eighties when data broadcasting
or the Internet were unknown, and we are now at our fourth generation and
more of VBI codecs, protocols and forward error correction (FEC). During
that time our VBI systems have evolved from being entirely proprietary, to
adopting open standards such as UDP and IP Multicast.
We have recently joined the ATVEF as an adopter, and are participating in
the process of preparing the Advanced TV specification. We initially
believed that the specification would define standards starting at a level
common to any ATVEF distribution network, whether analog or digital, hence
beginning at the transport level: IP Multicast. In that scenario, the
actual binding of IP Multicast to NABTS would have been open, and WavePhore
or any other provider could have used the framing, network layer and FEC of
his choice while preserving compatibility at the transport layer.
We learned however that the ATVEF intended to recommend the usage of the IP
over VBI binding proposed by the IETF, and that adoption of this
specification would be required for compliance. We are familiar with the
IETF proposed standard because it has evolved from the same scheme initially
developed by Canadian researchers in the '80s that we have also been using
as a base. The IETF proposed standard is similar the FEC WavePhore was
using about 4 years ago, but we have made some significant improvements to
it since then, and has plans to still improve it in the upcoming months.
It is WavePhore's intent to make its systems ATVEF compliant, but at the
same time, it wouldn't make sense for us to roll back to technologies that
we have been using before, and that we believe are less performant than what
we are using today. We believe the ATVEF and the industry in general can
greatly benefit from the improvements we made to VBI data broadcasting
technology, and from our experience in operating the only nationwide
commercial service delivered through VBI. Therefore, WavePhore wishes to
present its improvements to VBI protocols and FEC to the IETF, with the
objective of incorporating them into the proposed standard. Our
improvements touch primarily:
* FEC improvement for Multi-line (high bandwidth) reliability
* Flexible framing
* Optimization for Ghost canceling and Adaptive equalizing
* Protocol overhead reduction
We will be more than glad to share the technical details of our protocol and
FEC with you and the IETF sub-committee when appropriate. It is our intent
to participate in the upcoming IETF meeting in Orlando.
Marcel Mc Nicoll
Streaming and Interactive Media Specialist
WaveTop Lead Technology Group
marcel@wavetop.net
on behalf of:
Patrick Gilbert
patrick@wavetop.net
Sr. Vice-President & CTO
WavePhore WaveTop, Inc.