From kokyhjbs@o2.pl Wed Feb 2 01:44:04 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA05496; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 01:44:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [61.76.190.114] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwEXP-0005QP-UH; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 02:03:01 -0500 Received: from symphony-40.iinet.net.au ([189.46.21.94]:1906 "HELO mail.ies.edu") by ies.edu with SMTP id ; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 12:38:34 +0600 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:34:34 +0400 Message-Id: <0.7.87.2081924.0083fc70@ies.edu> From: "Darius Fulton" To: Subject: It's for sure X-message-flag: Authentic Sender, Hash: LKQLMTEA List-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----------A48356845382213" X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 69ad46fbd0e474a7c7f3312d9e320336 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------------A48356845382213 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------A85031401794097" ------------A85031401794097 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset = "us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit meme only . septacro resorcinol cattail. sanctify throttle scuffle dentistry glenn simplicity cumberland egipt. ------------A85031401794097 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit simplify swing
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l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 12:42:19 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwNt3-0006iE-JL; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 12:01:53 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CwNq8-0004rs-4G for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:58:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29095 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ixe-nat1.juniper.net ([193.110.54.36] helo=up-smtp.jnpr.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwO8W-0005Xd-30 for l3vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 12:17:53 -0500 Received: from pi-smtp.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.36]) by up-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:58:18 +0000 Received: from proton.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.37]) by pi-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:58:17 -0500 Received: from [172.25.42.24] ([172.25.42.24]) by proton.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:58:17 -0500 Message-ID: <420106A8.5090209@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:58:16 -0500 From: Ronald Bonica User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2005 16:58:17.0340 (UTC) FILETIME=[6434BBC0:01C50948] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Last call: draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-04 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, This message ends last call on draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-04. There has been some discussion of this draft in a simultaneous last call on the IDR mailing list. Authors, Please update the draft to reflect comments from the IDR list. Also, please post a message to this list describing the changes. When the new draft version is posted, I will forward it to the IESG with a request to publish as a Proposed Standard. Ron From ycmwymt@o2.pl Wed Feb 2 13:42:25 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12360; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:42:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CwPko-00011P-0P; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:01:30 -0500 Received: from [211.217.92.231] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CwPSJ-0007Yo-8b; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:42:23 -0500 Received: from symphony-15.iinet.net.au ([24.80.192.102]:1906 "HELO mail.ies.edu") by ies.edu with SMTP id ; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:38:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:37:10 +0500 Message-Id: <4.3.89.2081924.0083fc70@ies.edu> From: "Ollie Haney" To: Subject: Check this out and then understand where it really is at. 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(EST) Received: from [211.220.0.213] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cwezt-0001U5-I9; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 06:18:07 -0500 Received: from symphony-17.iinet.net.au ([11.220.95.105]:1906 "HELO mail.ies.edu") by ies.edu with SMTP id ; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 03:50:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:49:46 +0200 Message-Id: <5.3.55.2081924.0083fc70@ies.edu> From: "Jermaine Biggs" To: Subject: Check this out and then understand where it really is at. 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mP8ALTNKQS2y2Aw/QEGigfUSHsoCbekeqvrUs/vqXKNv5aE4/wByb/x0NPooUgiHZQWv5WPWb1v8 IfB56SdRYTIAT0shy/U+DE2oSQLeUYKdtri16vLclzi3STtoECgiKWcmwVRck+alZdMdNE1jzNRw YHwfa/QpZPeczayQYmNfZx/q9o/zqEGjhSCIdlAFH6v8TLNop0tvaNgPly1xRsp8oIrGkMIJljcM thfA3DUFOinc9Mcbt9VaSJPd+pjVv6s0UkaDzsy0xns0pUhBcBQbYZu1QGq1aRDfy0Ln4sxipfzP O1rL94+VT6kPL+vWXQ6SLT+WNAG+N+u3+P8A/9k= ------------A48356845382213-- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 5 13:07:44 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA18379 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 13:07:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxUeS-0004fy-Dx for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:27:27 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CxUJx-0000jq-Ij; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:06:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CxUDM-0008F2-Jx for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 12:59:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA17814 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:59:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxUWO-0004W1-Fz for l3vpn@ietf.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:19:04 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Feb 2005 13:09:29 -0500 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j15HwmhF000802; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:58:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.83.15.52] (rtp-tnadeau-vpn3.cisco.com [10.83.15.52]) by flask.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.6-GR) with SMTP id AOW64539; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:58:49 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4d7f18be2d65dea9a12a21c574e20200@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:58:51 -0500 To: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Benson Schliesser , Ross Callon , Bert Wijnen , Rick Wilder , Harmen Van der Linde Subject: draft-ietf-l3vpn-tc-mib-05.txt and draft-ietf-l3vpn-mpls-vpn-mib-06.txt Status X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI, I just refreshed the VPN TC MIB and the L3 VPN MPLS MIB as they were both about to expire. Note that although the TC MIB is in what the editors think is the final state which includes comments from the AD/MIB Doctors, the L3 VPN MIB still has some work to have all of its comments addressed. We expect to have all of the AD's comments addressed on the L3 VPN MIB in a few weeks. --Tom From riaahiv@o2.pl Sun Feb 6 14:37:51 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA19524; Sun, 6 Feb 2005 14:37:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxsXR-0004JR-3P; Sun, 06 Feb 2005 14:57:46 -0500 Received: from [4.10.3.114] (helo=MISFITSO-6VSSA0) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CxsE8-0005tg-IS; Sun, 06 Feb 2005 14:37:49 -0500 Received: from symphony-39.iinet.net.au ([161.240.232.118]:1906 "HELO mail.ies.edu") by ies.edu with SMTP id ; Sun, 06 Feb 2005 23:30:45 +0400 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 01:35:45 +0600 Message-Id: <6.8.54.2081924.0083fc70@ies.edu> From: "Clinton Puckett" To: Subject: Its all in here. 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l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:01:26 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyGJQ-0002MK-Rk; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:20:52 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyFiJ-0005T6-Da; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:42:31 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA11894; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:42:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502072042.PAA11894@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:42:28 -0500 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-tc-mib-05.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Definition of Textual Conventions for Virtual Private Network (VPN) Management Author(s) : B. Schliesser, T. Nadeau Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-tc-mib-05.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2005-2-7 This document describes Textual Conventions used for managing Virtual Private Networks (VPNs). A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-tc-mib-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l3vpn-tc-mib-05.txt". 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-7160633.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-tc-mib-05.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l3vpn-tc-mib-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-7160633.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 7 16:43:09 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25791 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:43:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyGyV-0006l3-H5 for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:03:19 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyGJT-0002Nc-P4; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:20:55 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyFj0-0005kr-AL; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:43:14 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA11972; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:43:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502072043.PAA11972@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:43:11 -0500 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-mpls-vpn-mib-06.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : MPLS/BGP Layer 3 Virtual Private Network Management Information Base Author(s) : T. Nadeau, H. Van Der Linde Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-mpls-vpn-mib-06.txt Pages : 42 Date : 2005-2-7 This memo defines an portion of the Management Information Base (MIB) for use with network management protocols in the Internet community. In particular, it describes managed objects to configure and/or monitor Multi-protocol Label Switching Layer-3 Virtual Private Networks on a Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Label Switching Router (LSR) supporting this feature. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mpls-vpn-mib-06.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l3vpn-mpls-vpn-mib-06.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mpls-vpn-mib-06.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-7160640.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mpls-vpn-mib-06.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l3vpn-mpls-vpn-mib-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-7160640.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 7 16:47:07 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA26570 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:47:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyH2L-00070K-0Y for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:07:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyGJW-0002Pr-Ij; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:20:58 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyFjB-0005q3-0X; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:43:25 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA11988; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:43:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502072043.PAA11988@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:43:22 -0500 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for Multicast in L3 Provider-Provisioned VPNs Author(s) : T. Morin Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2005-2-4 This document presents a set of functional requirements for network solutions that allow the deployment of IP multicast within L3 Provider Provisioned virtual private networks (PPVPNs). It specifies requirements both from the end user and service provider standpoints. It is intended that potential solutions specifying the support of IP multicast within such VPNs will use these requirements as guidelines. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-7160647.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-7160647.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 7 21:55:13 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA02086 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:55:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyLqY-0008Gc-4c for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:15:26 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyLVS-0000rL-A3; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 21:53:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CyLQm-0008UC-2d for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 21:48:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA01731 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:48:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ixe-nat1.juniper.net ([193.110.54.36] helo=up-smtp.jnpr.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyLkH-00088R-Iv for l3vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:08:58 -0500 Received: from pi-smtp.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.36]) by up-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 8 Feb 2005 02:48:15 +0000 Received: from proton.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.37]) by pi-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:48:13 -0500 Received: from [172.24.253.171] ([172.24.253.171]) by proton.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:48:13 -0500 Message-ID: <4208286F.3050100@juniper.net> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 21:48:15 -0500 From: Ronald Bonica User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200502072043.PAA11988@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <200502072043.PAA11988@ietf.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2005 02:48:13.0685 (UTC) FILETIME=[A2231A50:01C50D88] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de8c36679aaa17b008853e74231c885 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Thomas Morin , l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2f0065339d489fe5a2873ea9ad776d1a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas, Thanks for submitting this draft. My comments are inline, below, prepended with the string "RPB>". I have omitted sections upon which I had no comment. Ron /as individual contributor 1. Introduction VPN services satisfying requirement defined in [VPN-REQ] are now being offered by many service providers worldwide. The success of those VPN services is due to intrinsic characteristics of the solutions: - Customers are unaware of the deployed network technology and do not need to activate specific mechanisms to support traffic being carried across L3VPN services, - P-routers in the core do not need to be explicitly aware of the L3VPN services which allows the P-routers to remain unaware of the number of VPN customers and so facilitates scalability, - Operator's configuration actions when adding new customers are minimized by the dynamic configuration of the VPNs. - Operator's configuration actions when adding new customers are minimized by the dynamic configuration of the VPNs. RPB> The first bullet point describes a reason why BGP/VPN's are RPB> popular. The second and third bullets point describe architectural RPB> characteristics of BGP/VPNs. Please consider the following alternative RPB> text: RPB> Service Providers are deploying VPN services [VPN-REQ] throughout RPB> the world. VPN services are popular because customers need not RPB> be aware of VPN technologies deployed in the provider network. RPB> They scale well for the following reasons: RPB> RPB> - because P-routers need not be aware of VPN service details RPB> - because the addition of a new VPN member requires only RPB> limited configuration effort RPB> There is also a growing need for support of IP multicast-based services. Efforts to provide efficient IP multicast routing protocols and multicast group management have been done in standardization bodies which has led, in particular, to the definition of the PIM and IGMP protocols. However, multicast traffic is not natively supported within existing PP IP VPN solutions. RPB> RPB> /s/PP IP VPN/PPVPN/ RPB> A simple solution to support multicast-based services in L3 PPVPNs consists in establishing unicast tunnels across the core network, and replicating traffic on PEs. Such a technique, despite the advantage of keeping the core unaware of multicast- specific issues has obvious drawbacks, which include scalability issues, operational costs, and bandwidth usage. RPB> RPB> I think that the previous paragraph is out of scope for a RPB> requirements document. It suggests and dismisses a solution. RPB> This document complements the generic L3 VPN requirement document [VPN-REQ], by specifying additional requirements specific to the deployment of IP multicast-based services within PPVPNs. It clarifies the needs from both VPN client and provider standpoints and formulates the problems that should be addressed by technical solutions with as a key objective to stay solution agnostic. There is no intent to either specify solution-specific details in this document or application-specific requirements. Also this document does NOT aim at expressing multicast-inferred requirements that are not specific to L3 PPVPNs. It is expected that solutions that specify procedures and protocol extensions for multicast in L3 PPVPNs SHOULD satisfy these requirements. 2. Conventions used in this document 2.1. Terminology Although the reader is assumed to be familiar with the terminology defined in [VPN-REQ], [RFC2547bis], [PIM-SM], [PIM-SSM] the following glossary of terms may be worthwhile. RPB> RPB> RFC 2432 might also be an interesting source of terminology RPB> 3. Problem Statement 3.1. Motivations More and more L3 VPN customers use IP multicast services within their private infrastructures. Naturally, they want to extend these multicast services to remote sites that are connected via a VPN. For instance, it could be a national TV channel with several RPB> RPB> s/it/the customer/ RPB> geographical locations that wants to broadcast a TV program from a central point to several regional locations within its VPN. A solution to support multicast traffic would consist in using point- to-point tunnels across the provider network and requiring the PE routers (provider's routers) to replicate traffic. This is obviously sub-optimal as it places the replication burden on the PE and hence has very poor scaling characteristics. It may also waste bandwidth and control plane resources in the provider's network. RPB> RPB> This paragraph is repeated from above. Please see comment above. RPB> Thus, to provide multicast services for L3 VPN networks in an efficient manner (that is, with scalable impact on signaling and protocol state as well as bandwidth usage), in a large scale environment, new mechanisms are required to enhance existing L3 VPN solutions for proper support of multicast-based services. 3.3. Scalability vs. Optimality RPB> RPB> I don't find the word "optimality" in my dictionary. How about RPB> "Scaling vs Optimizing Resource Utilization" ? RPB> When transporting multicast VPN traffic over a service provider network, there intrinsically is tension between resource optimization and minimizing the number of protocol states maintained. Thus, some trade-off has to be made, and this document will express some requirements related to this trade-off. Morin et al. Informational - Expires August 2005 [Page 5] Internet Draft Requirements for multicast in L3 PPVPNs February 2005 5.1. End user/customer standpoint 5.1.1. Service definition As for unicast, the multicast service MUST be provider provisioned and SHALL NOT require the customer's devices (CE) to support some extra features. RPB> s/some/any/ 5.1.2. CE-PE Multicast routing and management protocols Consequently to section 3.1, the CEs and PEs SHOULD be able to operate existing multicast protocols. RPB> s/be able to operate/employ/ Such protocols SHOULD include : PIM-SM [PIM-SM] (including PIM-SSM [PIM-SSM], and bidirectional PIM [BIDIR-PIM]), PIM-DM [PIM-DM], and IGMP (v1, v2 and v3 [IGMPv1] [IGMPv2] [IGMPv3]). Among those protocols, PIM-SM is considered a MUST. When IPv6 is supported by a VPN solution, the Multicast Listener Discovery Protocol (MLD) SHOULD also be supported (v1, v2 [MLD] [MLDv2]). 5.1.3. Quality of Service (QoS) First, general considerations about QoS in L3 VPNs as developed in section 5.5 of [VPN-REQ] are also relevant to this section. QoS includes various parameters such as delay, jitter, packet loss, and service availability expressed in percentage of time. These Morin et al. Informational - Expires August 2005 [Page 6] Internet Draft Requirements for multicast in L3 PPVPNs February 2005 parameters are already defined for the current unicast provider provider-provisioned VPN services, are sold by the service provider to the customers and defined in the SLA (Service Level Agreements). In some cases, provided SLA may be different between unicast and multicast, which will need service differentiation mechanisms as such. RPB> Please consider the following alternative text: RPB RPB> QoS is measured in terms of delay, jitter, packet loss, RPB> and availability. These metrics are already defined for the current RPB> unicast PPVPN services, and are included in Service Level Agreements RPB> (SLA). In some cases, a service provider's unicast SLA may differ RPB> from its multicast SLA. In those cases..... The level of availability for the multicast service SHOULD be on par with what exists for unicast traffic. For instance same traffic protection mechanisms SHOULD be available for customer multicast traffic when it is carried over the service provider's network. RPB> RPB> Should it be the same as non-VPN multicast? As you state above, RPB> this might not be different from unicast (either in a VPN or RPB> not in a VPN? RPB> A multicast in VPN solution shall allow to define at least the same level of quality of service than what exists for unicast. RPB> RPB> Same comment as above RPB> From this perspective, the deployment of multicast-based services within an L3 PPVPN environment SHALL benefit from DiffServ [RFC2475] mechanisms that include multicast traffic identification, classification and marking capabilities, as well as multicast traffic policing, scheduling and conditioning capabilities. Such capabilities MUST therefore be supported by any participating device in the establishment and the maintenance of the multicast distribution tunnel within the VPN. As multicast is often used to deliver high quality services such as TV broadcast, the solution should have additional features to support high QoS such as bandwidth reservation and call admission control. RPB> RPB> These features don't exist in non-VPN multicast. Therefore, I think RPB> that the might be out of scope for VPN multicast. RPB> Moreover, a multicast VPN solution SHOULD as much as possible ensure that client multicast traffic packets are neither lost nor duplicated, even when changes occur in the way a client multicast data stream is carried over the provider network. Packet loss issues have also to be considered when a new source starts to send traffic to a group: any receiver interested in receiving such traffic SHOULD be serviced accordingly. 5.1.4. SLA parameters measurement As SLA parameters are part of the service that is sold, they are often monitored. The monitoring is used for technical reasons by the service provider and is often sold to the customer for end-to-end service purposes. The solution MUST support (SLA) monitoring capabilities, which MAY possibly rely upon similar techniques (than those used by the unicast for the same monitoring purposes). Multicast specific characteristics that may be monitored are, for instance, multicast statistics per stream, delay and latency time (time to start receiving a multicast group traffic across the VPN). A generic discussion of SLAs is provided in [PPVPN-GR]. RPB> RPB> You might want to visit RFC 2432 for a list of metrics to be RPB> measured. Please use the terminology of RFC 2432. RPB> Morin et al. Informational - Expires August 2005 [Page 7] Internet Draft Requirements for multicast in L3 PPVPNs February 2005 5.1.5. Security Requirements Security is a key point for a customer who uses subscribes to a VPN service. The RFC2547 model [RFC2547bis] offers some guarantees concerning the security level of data transmission within the VPN. A multicast VPN solution MUST provide an architecture that can provide the same level of security both for both the unicast and multicast traffics. Moreover, the activation of multicast features SHOULD be possible: - with a VRF granularity - with a CE granularity (when multiple CE of a same VPN are connected to a common VRF) - with a distinction between multicast reception and emission - with a multicast group and/or channel granularity A multicast VPN solution may choose to make the optimality/scal- ability trade-off stated in section 3.3 by sometimes distributing multicast traffic of a client group to a larger set of PE routers that may include PEs which are not part of the VPN. From a security standpoint, this may be a problem for some VPN customers, thus a multicast VPN solution using such a scheme MAY offer ways to avoid this for specific customers (and/or specific customer multicast streams). RPB> RPB> Why would this be a problem so long as the traffic stays inside the RPB> provider network? RPB> 5.2.1. Scalability Some currently standardized and deployed L3VPN solutions have the major advantage of being scalable in the core regarding the number of customers and the number of customer routes. For instance, in the [RFC2547bis] model, a P-router sees a number of MPLS tunnels that is only linked to the number of PEs and not to the number of customers. As far as possible, this independence in the core, with respect to the number of customers and to customer activity, is recommended. Yet, it is recognized that in our context scalability and resource usage optimality are competing goals, so this requirement may be reduced to giving the possibility of bounding the quantity of states that the service provider needs to maintain in the core for MDTunnels, with a bound being independent of the multicast activity of VPN customers. It is expected that multicast VPN solutions will use some kind of point point-to-multipoint technology to efficiently carry multicast VPN traffic, and that such technologies require maintaining state information, and will use resources in the control plane (memory and processing, and possibly address space). Scalability is a key requirement for multicast VPN solutions. Solutions MUST be designed to scale well with an increase in the number of any of the following: - the number of PEs - the number of customers VPNs (total and per PE) - the number of PEs and sites in any VPN - the number of client multicast channels (groups or source-groups) >RPB >RPB I assume that you will add real numbers here >RPB Scalability of both performance and operation MUST be considered. Key considerations SHOULD include: - the processing resources required by the control plane (neighborhood or session maintenance messages, keep-alives, timers, etc.) - the memory resources needed for the control plane Morin et al. Informational - Expires August 2005 [Page 11] Internet Draft Requirements for multicast in L3 PPVPNs February 2005 - the amount of protocol information transmitted to manage a multicast VPN (e.g. signaling throughput) - the amount of control plane processing required on PE and P to add remove a customer site (or a customer from a multicast session) - the number of multicast IP addresses used (if IP multicast in ASM mode is proposed as a multicast distribution tunnel) - other particular elements inherent to each solution that impacts scalability (e.g., if a solution uses some distribution tree inside the core, topology of the tree and number of leaf nodes may be some of them) It is expected that the applicability of each solution will be evaluated with regards to the aforementioned scalability criteria. These considerations naturally lead us to believe that proposed solutions SHOULD offer the possibility of sharing such resources between different multicast streams (between different VPNs, between different multicast streams of the same or of different VPNs). This means for instance, if MDTunnels are trees, being able to share an MDTunnel between several customers. Those scalability issues are expected to be more significant on P- routers, but a multicast in VPNs solution should address both P and PE routers as far as scalability is concerned. 5.2.2. Resource optimization 5.2.5. Infrastructure security The solution shall provide the same level of security for the service provider as what currently exist for unicast VPNs. RPB> RPB> Should it be the same as non-VPN multicast? As you state above, RPB> this might not be different from unicast (either in a VPN or RPB> not in a VPN? RPB> For instance, that means that the intrinsic protection against DOS and DDOS attacks of the BGP/MPLS VPN solution must be equally supported by the multicast solution. Moreover, since multicast traffic and routing are intrinsically dynamic (receiver-initiated), some mechanism must be proposed so that the frequency of changes in the way client traffic is carried over the core is bounded and not tightly coupled to dynamic changes of multicast traffic in the customer network. For example, multicast route dampening functions would be one possible mechanism. Network devices that participate in the deployment and the maintenance of a given L3 VPN MAY represent a superset of the participating devices that are also involved in the establishment and Morin et al. Informational - Expires August 2005 [Page 14] Internet Draft Requirements for multicast in L3 PPVPNs February 2005 the maintenance of the multicast distribution tunnels. As such the activation of IP multicast capabilities within a VPN SHOULD be device-specific, not only to make sure that only the relevant devices will be multicast-enabled, but also to make sure that multicast (routing) information will be disseminated to the multicast-enabled devices only, hence limiting the risk of multicast-inferred DOS attacks. Unwanted multicast traffic (e.g. multicast traffic that may be sent by a source located somewhere in the Internet and for which there is no interested receiver connected to a given VPN infrastructure) MUST NOT be propagated within a multicast-enabled VPN. Last, control mechanisms described in previous section are also to be considered from this infrastructure security point of view. From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 10 09:23:31 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02842 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CzFYF-0004qq-1F for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:44:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CzF6E-0002pN-CH; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:15:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CzEuI-00086K-V3 for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:02:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01492 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:02:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CzFEH-0004Pm-Hh for l3vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:23:40 -0500 Received: from localHost ([68.214.179.194]) by imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with ESMTP id <20050210140213.ONCR2276.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@localHost> for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:02:13 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:03 -0500 (EST) From: Len Nieman X-Mailer: MailRoom for Internet v3.3d (www.SierraSol.com) To: l3vpn@ietf.org Message-Id: <20050210140213.ONCR2276.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@localHost> X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 In addition to Ron's comments, I would suggest changing the fourth paragraph under '5.1.7. Extranet': "For instance, an enterprise using a multicast-enabled VPN should be able to receive multicast streams sent by a source in another VPN, and should also be able to be a source for a multicast stream towards another VPN." To the stronger and more direct form: 'For instance, an enterprise using a multicast-enabled VPN should have the ability to receive a multicast stream from, or originate a multicast stream towards, another VPN.' Len Nieman (Bellsouth's my ISP, not my employer) From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 18 12:13:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08930 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:13:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2C2d-0002EC-JK for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:35:47 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2BFx-0002qd-HW; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:45:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2Av2-0007WR-B9 for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:23:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01077 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:23:50 -0500 (EST) From: jeremy.de_clercq@alcatel.be Received: from smail.alcatel.fr ([62.23.212.165]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2BGf-0008LA-Tz for l3vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:46:17 -0500 Received: from bemail04.netfr.alcatel.fr (bemail04.netfr.alcatel.fr [155.132.251.33]) by smail.alcatel.fr (ALCANET/NETFR) with ESMTP id j1IGNh1P006531; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:23:44 +0100 Received: from alcatel.be ([138.203.67.106]) by bemail04.netfr.alcatel.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with ESMTP id 2005021817234291:7457 ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:23:42 +0100 Message-ID: <4216168D.2070305@alcatel.be> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:23:41 +0100 Organization: Alcatel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald Bonica References: <420106A8.5090209@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <420106A8.5090209@juniper.net> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on BEMAIL04/BE/ALCATEL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 02/18/2005 17:23:42, Serialize by Router on BEMAIL04/BE/ALCATEL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 02/18/2005 17:23:43, Serialize complete at 02/18/2005 17:23:43 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Alcanet-MTA-scanned-and-authorized: yes X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: Last call: draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-04 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron, Ronald Bonica wrote: > Please update the draft to reflect comments from the IDR list. Also, > please post a message to this list describing the changes. I posted the updated version (i.e. -05) of this draft reflecting the IDR comments. The changes are as follows: - changed the "BGP Next Hop encoding" section (3.2.1) to reflect that the decision for encoding the NH as a v6 prefix versus as a v4-mapped v6 prefix should be based on policy and not on whether the IPv6-VPN reachability information is exchanged over IPv4 or IPv6. This impacts also subsections 3.2.1.1 and 3.2.1.2, and section 8 (paragraph 7). - added a reference to MPLS-in-L2TPv3 which is now a WG document too. > When the new draft version is posted, I will forward it to the IESG with > a request to publish as a Proposed Standard. thanks, Jeremy. From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 18 13:14:39 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15974 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:14:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2Czz-00049x-09 for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:37:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2CO3-0000kM-0X; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:57:55 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2C8Y-0002bZ-3A for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:41:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12153 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:41:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net ([207.17.137.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2CUE-0003DV-E4 for l3vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:04:19 -0500 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j1IHfLBm075971; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:41:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rcallon@juniper.net) Received: from rcallon-lt1.juniper.net ([172.24.236.66]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id j1IHfDe67012; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:41:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rcallon@juniper.net) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20050218124002.03076570@zircon.juniper.net> X-Sender: rcallon@zircon.juniper.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:41:11 -0500 To: l3vpn@ietf.org From: Ross Callon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Cc: rcallon@juniper.net, rick@rhwilder.net Subject: L3VPN Presentations at IETF X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea If anyone wants to present at the l3vpn meeting in Minneapolis then please send email to the working group chairs. Thanks, Ross From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 18 13:51:46 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21762 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:51:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2DZt-0005Gs-5A for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:14:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2D3T-0005ox-JZ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:40:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2Chm-0007Fw-I3 for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:18:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16625 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:18:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2D3S-0004GY-RP for l3vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:40:44 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.156]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:18:12 +0100 Received: from [10.193.169.26] ([10.193.169.26]) by ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:18:11 +0100 Message-ID: <42163163.2020209@rd.francetelecom.com> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:18:11 +0100 From: Thomas Morin User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: fr, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ross Callon References: <5.0.0.25.2.20050218124002.03076570@zircon.juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20050218124002.03076570@zircon.juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2005 18:18:11.0697 (UTC) FILETIME=[34798E10:01C515E6] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id NAA16625 Cc: rick@rhwilder.net, l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: L3VPN Presentations at IETF X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ross Callon a =E9crit : > If anyone wants to present at the l3vpn meeting in Minneapolis > then please send email to the working group chairs. You probably guessed it : I wish to present the new revision of the=20 multicast VPN requirements drafts. Thank you, -Thomas From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 18 16:47:34 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28105 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:47:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2GK3-0007OE-VQ for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:10:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2EtL-00086d-C2; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:38:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2Ehn-0003AT-0e; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:26:28 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08887; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:26:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502182026.PAA08887@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:26:25 -0500 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : BGP-MPLS VPN extension for IPv6 VPN Author(s) : J. De Clercq, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2005-2-18 This document describes a method by which a Service Provider may use its packet switched backbone to provide Virtual Private Network services for its IPv6 customers. This method reuses, and extends where necessary, the "BGP/MPLS IP VPN" method [2547bis] for support of IPv6. In BGP/MPLS IP VPN, "Multiprotocol BGP" is used for distributing IPv4 VPN routes over the service provider backbone and MPLS is used to forward IPv4 VPN packets over the backbone. This document defines an IPv6 VPN address family and describes the corresponding IPv6 VPN route distribution in "Multiprotocol BGP". This document defines support of the IPv6 VPN service over both an IPv4 and an IPv6 backbone, and using various tunnelling techniques over the core including MPLS, IP-in-IP, GRE and IPsec protected tunnels. The inter-working between an IPv4 site and an IPv6 site is outside the scope of this document. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-18144503.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-18144503.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 19 02:32:11 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02924 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:32:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2PRs-00055T-UB for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:54:46 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2Ooa-00019B-Ef; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:14:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2OeY-0006E6-SO for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:03:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA13109 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:03:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate4.mot.com ([144.189.100.102]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2P0M-0004Mh-GL for l3vpn@ietf.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:26:19 -0500 Received: from il06exr04.mot.com (il06exr04.mot.com [129.188.137.134]) by motgate4.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate4) with ESMTP id j1J77iUv012914 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 00:07:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from zin05exm02.corp.mot.com (zin05exm02.corp.mot.com [10.232.0.1]) by il06exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j1J73mkE009712 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 01:03:49 -0600 (CST) Received: by zin05exm02.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <1MNHP0Q1>; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:33:40 +0530 Message-ID: <653138C25D8AD6118292000347080A370DB924AF@zin05exm02.corp.mot.com> From: Bandi Sarveshwar-G19441 To: "'Ronald Bonica'" Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:33:39 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Cc: Thomas Morin , l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 From this perspective, the deployment of multicast-based services within an L3 PPVPN environment SHALL benefit from DiffServ [RFC2475] mechanisms that include multicast traffic identification, classification and marking capabilities, as well as multicast traffic policing, scheduling and conditioning capabilities. Such capabilities MUST therefore be supported by any participating device in the establishment and the maintenance of the multicast distribution tunnel within the VPN. As multicast is often used to deliver high quality services such as TV broadcast, the solution should have additional features to support high QoS such as bandwidth reservation and call admission control. RPB> RPB> These features don't exist in non-VPN multicast. Therefore, I think RPB> that the might be out of scope for VPN multicast. RPB> Yeah you are right when you say these feature do not exist in non-VPN multicast. But in the problem that we are addressing, the cusomters would end up buying Multicast VPN service from the providers and I think they would like to know the performance characteristics of the service being provided. While customers can control the performance of multicast data transmission in their network, I guess it would be unacceptable if they cant determine what the behaviour would be like when data crosses from PE to PE. Moreover since the SP is serving different VPNs, if there are no QoS guarantees, the possibility exists that SP can start favouring customers of one VPN over the others. Or the other way around, the SP may want to give preferential treatment to customer traffic depending on what they are paying for. From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 19 09:47:35 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08228 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2WFI-0000gc-Uc for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:10:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2Udc-0003Xr-5t; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 08:27:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2TIs-0001lk-FD for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 07:01:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA09110 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 03:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate.mot.com ([129.188.136.100]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2QMG-0006ju-LN for l3vpn@ietf.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 03:53:01 -0500 Received: from il06exr02.mot.com (il06exr02.mot.com [129.188.137.132]) by motgate.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate) with ESMTP id j1J8UPF4025995 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 01:30:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from zin05exm02.corp.mot.com (zin05exm02.corp.mot.com [10.232.0.1]) by il06exr02.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j1J8Ufj2025186 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:30:42 -0600 (CST) Received: by zin05exm02.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <1MNHQASR>; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:00:22 +0530 Message-ID: <653138C25D8AD6118292000347080A370DB924B0@zin05exm02.corp.mot.com> From: Bandi Sarveshwar-G19441 To: l3vpn@ietf.org Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:00:22 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Len and others, In RFC2547bis, sending traffic of one VPN to another is achieved by policy configuration (RT and RD). The export and import policies pretty much decide which destinations in which VPNs are accessible to others. Multicast routing protocols like PIM (all variants) depend on the unicast routing database to propagate multicast control messages (Joins/Prunes). In that sense the policies for Multicast routing protocols operations should match with those unicast VPN policies (as in RFC2547bis). would it be useful to add text in the requirements document in this regards? Or whatever I mentioned above is taken for granted? Sarvesh -----Original Message----- From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Len Nieman Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 7:33 PM To: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt In addition to Ron's comments, I would suggest changing the fourth paragraph under '5.1.7. Extranet': "For instance, an enterprise using a multicast-enabled VPN should be able to receive multicast streams sent by a source in another VPN, and should also be able to be a source for a multicast stream towards another VPN." To the stronger and more direct form: 'For instance, an enterprise using a multicast-enabled VPN should have the ability to receive a multicast stream from, or originate a multicast stream towards, another VPN.' Len Nieman (Bellsouth's my ISP, not my employer) From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 20 14:58:51 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03757 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:58:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2xaK-0007pH-G8 for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:21:45 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2w7p-0001a9-0Q; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:48:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D2vAb-0008Si-HA for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:47:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA23098 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:46:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from colo-dns-ext1.juniper.net ([207.17.137.57]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2vWc-0004Db-R2 for l3vpn@ietf.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:09:48 -0500 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext1.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id j1KHkN931956; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 09:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id j1KHkHe43997; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 09:46:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200502201746.j1KHkHe43997@merlot.juniper.net> To: Bandi Sarveshwar-G19441 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:33:39 +0530." <653138C25D8AD6118292000347080A370DB924AF@zin05exm02.corp.mot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <77908.1108921577.1@juniper.net> Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 09:46:17 -0800 From: Yakov Rekhter X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: Thomas Morin , l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Sarvesh, > > From this > perspective, the deployment of multicast-based services within an L3 > PPVPN environment SHALL benefit from DiffServ [RFC2475] mechanisms > that include multicast traffic identification, classification and > marking capabilities, as well as multicast traffic policing, > scheduling and conditioning capabilities. Such capabilities MUST > therefore be supported by any participating device in the > establishment and the maintenance of the multicast distribution > tunnel within the VPN. > > As multicast is often used to deliver high quality services such as > TV broadcast, the solution should have additional features to support > high QoS such as bandwidth reservation and call admission control. > > RPB> > RPB> These features don't exist in non-VPN multicast. Therefore, I think > RPB> that the might be out of scope for VPN multicast. > RPB> > > > Yeah you are right when you say these feature do not exist in non-VPN > multicast. But in the problem that we are addressing, the cusomters > would end up buying Multicast VPN service from the providers and > I think they would like to know the performance characteristics of > the service being provided. While customers can control the performance > of multicast data transmission in their network, I guess it would > be unacceptable if they cant determine what the behaviour would be > like when data crosses from PE to PE. > > Moreover since the SP is serving different VPNs, if there are no > QoS guarantees, the possibility exists that SP can start favouring > customers of one VPN ove r the others. Or the other way around, the > SP may want to give preferential tre atment to customer traffic > depending on what they are paying for. I certainly agree with you. The QoS features mentioned above are available for the unicast 2547 VPN service, and should be available for the multicast 2547 VPN service as well. Yakov. From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 21 06:34:55 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14059 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 06:34:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3CCN-0006C5-07 for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 06:57:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3AzN-0006TP-NS; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:40:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3AQ1-0007vs-Rm for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:03:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA06139 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:03:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3AmB-0003vA-St for l3vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:26:52 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.156]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:03:10 +0100 Received: from l-dhcp-4084-5.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.15.112]) by ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:03:09 +0100 From: Thomas Morin To: Len Nieman In-Reply-To: <20050210140213.ONCR2276.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@localHost> References: <20050210140213.ONCR2276.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@localHost> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: France Telecom R&D CORE/CPN Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:03:09 +0100 Message-Id: <1108980189.8074.1.camel@wintermute> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.1.5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2005 10:03:09.0411 (UTC) FILETIME=[8BC5A330:01C517FC] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Len, Len Nieman : >In addition to Ron's comments, I would suggest changing the >fourth paragraph under '5.1.7. Extranet': > >"For instance, an enterprise using a multicast-enabled VPN should >be able to receive multicast streams sent by a source in another >VPN, and should also be able to be a source for a multicast >stream towards another VPN." > >To the stronger and more direct form: > >'For instance, an enterprise using a multicast-enabled VPN should >have the ability to receive a multicast stream from, or originate >a multicast stream towards, another VPN.' Agreed. Cheers, -Thomas -- == Thomas MORIN - France Telecom R&D CORE-CPN == Tel.: +33(0) 2 96 05 37 34 - www.francetelecom.com/rd -- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 21 06:45:24 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15502 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 06:45:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3CMV-0006Yw-Oo for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:08:27 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3BI4-0002nM-3Y; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:59:48 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3Atk-0005EX-Of for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:34:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08471 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:34:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3BFv-0004eI-V0 for l3vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:57:36 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.156]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:31:46 +0100 Received: from l-dhcp-4084-5.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.15.112]) by ftrdmel10.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:31:46 +0100 From: Thomas Morin To: Yakov Rekhter In-Reply-To: <200502201746.j1KHkHe43997@merlot.juniper.net> References: <200502201746.j1KHkHe43997@merlot.juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: France Telecom R&D CORE/CPN Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:31:45 +0100 Message-Id: <1108981905.8074.26.camel@wintermute> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.1.5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2005 10:31:46.0390 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B2BD760:01C51800] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Yakov Rekhter : >Sarvesh, > >> >> From this >> perspective, the deployment of multicast-based services within an L3 >> PPVPN environment SHALL benefit from DiffServ [RFC2475] mechanisms >> that include multicast traffic identification, classification and >> marking capabilities, as well as multicast traffic policing, >> scheduling and conditioning capabilities. Such capabilities MUST >> therefore be supported by any participating device in the >> establishment and the maintenance of the multicast distribution >> tunnel within the VPN. >> >> As multicast is often used to deliver high quality services such as >> TV broadcast, the solution should have additional features to support >> high QoS such as bandwidth reservation and call admission control. >> >> RPB> >> RPB> These features don't exist in non-VPN multicast. Therefore, I think >> RPB> that the might be out of scope for VPN multicast. >> RPB> >> >> >> Yeah you are right when you say these feature do not exist in non-VPN >> multicast. But in the problem that we are addressing, the cusomters >> would end up buying Multicast VPN service from the providers and >> I think they would like to know the performance characteristics of >> the service being provided. While customers can control the performance >> of multicast data transmission in their network, I guess it would >> be unacceptable if they cant determine what the behaviour would be >> like when data crosses from PE to PE. >> >> Moreover since the SP is serving different VPNs, if there are no >> QoS guarantees, the possibility exists that SP can start favouring >> customers of one VPN ove r the others. Or the other way around, the >> SP may want to give preferential tre atment to customer traffic >> depending on what they are paying for. > >I certainly agree with you. The QoS features mentioned above >are available for the unicast 2547 VPN service, and should >be available for the multicast 2547 VPN service as well. I think Ronald was referring to the fact that the initial paragraph was in the *customer side* requirements section. And I admit the paragraph may not make a consensus, since with the multicast protocols we require/suggest at the CE-PE level, there is no existing mechanism for bandwidth reservation or CaC. In that sense, we may change this paragraph. ( but we may also say that if we require support of the Carriers's Carrier model - not yet developed in last revision - then things may be different...) What you both (Yakov, Sarvesh) just suggested is a bit different, and is in my view closer to and ISP-side requirement, something like "what kind of SLAs can I sell ? how differentiated ? and how can I enforce/guarantee it ?". In that sense, we could state in the ISP requirements section the need for mechanisms able to produce different QoS and/or bandwidth guarantees for different customers. Would that make sense to you ? -Thomas -- == Thomas MORIN - France Telecom R&D CORE-CPN == Tel.: +33(0) 2 96 05 37 34 - www.francetelecom.com/rd -- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 21 07:28:02 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19059 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:28:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3D1k-0007g8-Rh for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:51:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3Bpb-0007fj-9j; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 06:34:27 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3B7h-00011q-Co for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:49:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09939 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:48:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net ([207.17.137.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3BTs-0004zt-PB for l3vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 06:12:01 -0500 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j1LAmSBm089799; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 02:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id j1LAmSe36546; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 02:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200502211048.j1LAmSe36546@merlot.juniper.net> To: Thomas Morin In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:31:45 +0100." <1108981905.8074.26.camel@wintermute> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <38821.1108982907.1@juniper.net> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 02:48:28 -0800 From: Yakov Rekhter X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 Thomas, > Yakov Rekhter : > >Sarvesh, > > > >> > >> From this > >> perspective, the deployment of multicast-based services within an L3 > >> PPVPN environment SHALL benefit from DiffServ [RFC2475] mechanisms > >> that include multicast traffic identification, classification and > >> marking capabilities, as well as multicast traffic policing, > >> scheduling and conditioning capabilities. Such capabilities MUST > >> therefore be supported by any participating device in the > >> establishment and the maintenance of the multicast distribution > >> tunnel within the VPN. > >> > >> As multicast is often used to deliver high quality services such as > >> TV broadcast, the solution should have additional features to support > >> high QoS such as bandwidth reservation and call admission control. > >> > >> RPB> > >> RPB> These features don't exist in non-VPN multicast. Therefore, I think > >> RPB> that the might be out of scope for VPN multicast. > >> RPB> > >> > >> > >> Yeah you are right when you say these feature do not exist in non-VPN > >> multicast. But in the problem that we are addressing, the cusomters > >> would end up buying Multicast VPN service from the providers and > >> I think they would like to know the performance characteristics of > >> the service being provided. While customers can control the performance > >> of multicast data transmission in their network, I guess it would > >> be unacceptable if they cant determine what the behaviour would be > >> like when data crosses from PE to PE. > >> > >> Moreover since the SP is serving different VPNs, if there are no > >> QoS guarantees, the possibility exists that SP can start favouring > >> customers of one VPN ove r the others. Or the other way around, the > >> SP may want to give preferential tre atment to customer traffic > >> depending on what they are paying for. > > > >I certainly agree with you. The QoS features mentioned above > >are available for the unicast 2547 VPN service, and should > >be available for the multicast 2547 VPN service as well. > > > I think Ronald was referring to the fact that the initial paragraph was > in the *customer side* requirements section. And I admit the paragraph > may not make a consensus, since with the multicast protocols we > require/suggest at the CE-PE level, there is no existing mechanism for > bandwidth reservation or CaC. In that sense, we may change this > paragraph. > ( but we may also say that if we require support of the Carriers's > Carrier model - not yet developed in last revision - then things may be > different...) > > What you both (Yakov, Sarvesh) just suggested is a bit different, and is > in my view closer to and ISP-side requirement, something like "what kind > of SLAs can I sell ? how differentiated ? and how can I > enforce/guarantee it ?". In that sense, we could state in the ISP > requirements section the need for mechanisms able to produce different > QoS and/or bandwidth guarantees for different customers. > > Would that make sense to you ? Yes, that does make sense. Yakov. From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 21 07:29:53 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19270 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:29:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3D3X-0007kD-Fj for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:52:55 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3BrO-0007zB-0x; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 06:36:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3BD6-00021O-Oa for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:54:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA10380 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:54:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate5.mot.com ([144.189.100.105]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3BZI-0005AM-6V for l3vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 06:17:36 -0500 Received: from az33exr03.mot.com (az33exr03.mot.com [10.64.251.233]) by motgate5.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate5) with ESMTP id j1LAvsXj001107 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 03:57:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from zin05exm02.corp.mot.com (zin05exm02.corp.mot.com [10.232.0.1]) by az33exr03.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j1LAtBOa023296 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 04:55:12 -0600 (CST) Received: by zin05exm02.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <1MNHQ7F8>; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:24:29 +0530 Message-ID: <653138C25D8AD6118292000347080A370DB924B3@zin05exm02.corp.mot.com> From: Bandi Sarveshwar-G19441 To: "'Thomas Morin'" , Yakov Rekhter Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:24:24 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Yup. That adds more clarity I guess. - Sarvesh -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Morin [mailto:thomas.morin@rd.francetelecom.com] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:02 PM To: Yakov Rekhter Cc: Bandi Sarveshwar-G19441; 'Ronald Bonica'; l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt Hi, Yakov Rekhter : >Sarvesh, > >> >> From this >> perspective, the deployment of multicast-based services within an L3 >> PPVPN environment SHALL benefit from DiffServ [RFC2475] mechanisms >> that include multicast traffic identification, classification and >> marking capabilities, as well as multicast traffic policing, >> scheduling and conditioning capabilities. Such capabilities MUST >> therefore be supported by any participating device in the >> establishment and the maintenance of the multicast distribution >> tunnel within the VPN. >> >> As multicast is often used to deliver high quality services such as >> TV broadcast, the solution should have additional features to support >> high QoS such as bandwidth reservation and call admission >> control. >> >> RPB> >> RPB> These features don't exist in non-VPN multicast. Therefore, I >> RPB> think >> RPB> that the might be out of scope for VPN multicast. >> RPB> >> >> >> Yeah you are right when you say these feature do not exist in non-VPN >> multicast. But in the problem that we are addressing, the cusomters >> would end up buying Multicast VPN service from the providers and I >> think they would like to know the performance characteristics of the >> service being provided. While customers can control the performance >> of multicast data transmission in their network, I guess it would be >> unacceptable if they cant determine what the behaviour would be like >> when data crosses from PE to PE. >> >> Moreover since the SP is serving different VPNs, if there are no QoS >> guarantees, the possibility exists that SP can start favouring >> customers of one VPN ove r the others. Or the other way around, the >> SP may want to give preferential tre atment to customer traffic >> depending on what they are paying for. > >I certainly agree with you. The QoS features mentioned above are >available for the unicast 2547 VPN service, and should be available for >the multicast 2547 VPN service as well. I think Ronald was referring to the fact that the initial paragraph was in the *customer side* requirements section. And I admit the paragraph may not make a consensus, since with the multicast protocols we require/suggest at the CE-PE level, there is no existing mechanism for bandwidth reservation or CaC. In that sense, we may change this paragraph. ( but we may also say that if we require support of the Carriers's Carrier model - not yet developed in last revision - then things may be different...) What you both (Yakov, Sarvesh) just suggested is a bit different, and is in my view closer to and ISP-side requirement, something like "what kind of SLAs can I sell ? how differentiated ? and how can I enforce/guarantee it ?". In that sense, we could state in the ISP requirements section the need for mechanisms able to produce different QoS and/or bandwidth guarantees for different customers. Would that make sense to you ? -Thomas -- == Thomas MORIN - France Telecom R&D CORE-CPN == Tel.: +33(0) 2 96 05 37 34 - www.francetelecom.com/rd -- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 21 17:12:57 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21102 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:12:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3M9s-0006WR-No for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:36:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3JxA-0007Nr-NM; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:14:48 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3Iec-0005B2-Of for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:51:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00719 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:51:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ixe-nat1.juniper.net ([193.110.54.36] helo=up-smtp.jnpr.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3J0s-0001Tk-J9 for l3vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 14:14:34 -0500 Received: from pi-smtp.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.36]) by up-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:50:58 +0000 Received: from proton.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.37]) by pi-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:50:57 -0500 Received: from [172.25.43.132] ([172.25.43.132]) by proton.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:50:57 -0500 Message-ID: <421A2D90.6040503@juniper.net> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:50:56 -0500 From: Ronald Bonica User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040000020801070905000207" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2005 18:50:57.0178 (UTC) FILETIME=[473B67A0:01C51846] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Subject: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt] X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040000020801070905000207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, As this draft has cleared WG last call in both L3VPN and IDR, I have forwarded it to the IESG with a request for publication. Ron -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:26:25 -0500 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org CC: l3vpn@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : BGP-MPLS VPN extension for IPv6 VPN Author(s) : J. De Clercq, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2005-2-18 --------------040000020801070905000207 Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-18144503.I-D@ietf.org> --------------040000020801070905000207-- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 23 20:23:05 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA11479 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:23:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D485Q-0000f5-QT for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:46:41 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D43Sy-00078e-2r; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:50:40 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D43Ss-00077U-TC; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:50:35 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14650; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:50:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502232050.PAA14650@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:50:32 -0500 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgpvpn-auto-05.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Using BGP as an Auto-Discovery Mechanism for Layer-3 and Layer-2 VPNs Author(s) : H. Ould-Brahim, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgpvpn-auto-05.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2005-2-23 In any Layer-3 and Layer-2 VPN scheme, the Provider Edge (PE) devices attached to a common VPN must exchange certain information as a prerequisite to establish VPN-specific connectivity. The purpose of this draft is to define a BGP based auto-discovery mechanism for layer-2 VPN architectures and Virtual router-based layer-3 VPNs [VPN-VR]. This mechanism is based on the approach used by BGP/MPLS-IP-VPN [BGP/MPLS-IP-VPN] for distributing VPN routing information within the service provider(s). In the context of L2VPNs, an auto-discovery mechanism enables a PE to determine the set of other PEs having VPN members in common along with information relative to each specific L2VPN endpoints such as attachment circuit identifier, topology information, etc. Each VPN scheme uses the mechanism to automatically discover the information needed by that particular scheme. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgpvpn-auto-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgpvpn-auto-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgpvpn-auto-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-23155753.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgpvpn-auto-05.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgpvpn-auto-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-23155753.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 23 22:06:56 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA19279 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:06:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D49hx-0003Un-Ft for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:30:33 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3kl5-0005q8-Hb; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:52:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3iAs-0005du-Lw for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:06:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA28209 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:06:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ibogw-fw1.sprintlink.net ([199.0.233.3] helo=elle.res.sprintlink.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3iXL-00048d-AZ for l3vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:29:48 -0500 Received: from iscserv1.res.sprintlink.net (iscserv1.res.sprintlink.net [199.0.237.253]) by elle.res.sprintlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j1MM0Jj22150; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:00:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (tseely@localhost) by iscserv1.res.sprintlink.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA07363; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:05:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: iscserv1.res.sprintlink.net: tseely owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:05:44 -0500 (EST) From: Ted Seely X-X-Sender: To: Bandi Sarveshwar-G19441 In-Reply-To: <653138C25D8AD6118292000347080A370DB924AF@zin05exm02.corp.mot.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Cc: Thomas Morin , l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab On Sat, 19 Feb 2005, Bandi Sarveshwar-G19441 wrote: > > From this > perspective, the deployment of multicast-based services within an L3 > PPVPN environment SHALL benefit from DiffServ [RFC2475] mechanisms > that include multicast traffic identification, classification and > marking capabilities, as well as multicast traffic policing, > scheduling and conditioning capabilities. Such capabilities MUST > therefore be supported by any participating device in the > establishment and the maintenance of the multicast distribution > tunnel within the VPN. > > As multicast is often used to deliver high quality services such as > TV broadcast, the solution should have additional features to support > high QoS such as bandwidth reservation and call admission control. > > RPB> > RPB> These features don't exist in non-VPN multicast. Therefore, I think > RPB> that the might be out of scope for VPN multicast. > RPB> > > > Yeah you are right when you say these feature do not exist in non-VPN > multicast. But in the problem that we are addressing, the cusomters > would end up buying Multicast VPN service from the providers and I > think they would like to know the performance characteristics of the > service being provided. While customers can control the performance of > multicast data transmission in their network, I guess it would be > unacceptable if they cant determine what the behaviour would be like > when data crosses from PE to PE. > > Moreover since the SP is serving different VPNs, if there are no QoS > guarantees, the possibility exists that SP can start favouring > customers of one VPN over the others. Or the other way around, the SP > may want to give preferential treatment to customer traffic depending > on what they are paying for. sorry for the late reply here, but i think those are some REALLY big assumptions to be making, and violate every SLAs out there of the SPs offering L3VPNs today. > Ted Seely Principal Network Design Engineer Internet Engineering - SprintLink (W) 703.689.6425 (M) 703.967.3289 AIM - wanpro00 Yahoo IM - tseely01 There are no such things as friends in this industry. From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 23 22:40:11 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA02002 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:40:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4AE8-0007Ci-MF for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:03:49 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D43pT-0002Hp-Jh; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:13:55 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D43pQ-0002H8-0g for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:13:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA17689 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:13:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ixe-nat1.juniper.net ([193.110.54.36] helo=up-smtp.jnpr.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D44CA-0001sH-Kx for l3vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:37:23 -0500 Received: from pi-smtp.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.36]) by up-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:13:41 +0000 Received: from proton.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.37]) by pi-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:13:39 -0500 Received: from [172.25.42.161] ([172.25.42.161]) by proton.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:13:39 -0500 Message-ID: <421CF202.2010709@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:13:38 -0500 From: Ronald Bonica User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2005 21:13:39.0369 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B859190:01C519EC] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: IETF 62 agenda X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, The following is a *proposed* agenda for IETF 62, L3VPN WG. Please send comments to the WG chairs. Ron Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks (Internet Area) Monday, March 7 at 13:00-1500 ============================= CHAIRs: Ross Callon Rick Wilder Ron Bonica Agenda: 13:00-13:10 Document Status Review - Ross Callon 13:10-13:25 Multicast VPN Requirements - Thomas Morin draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00 13:25-14:10 Multicast VPN Solution - Rahul Aggarwal & Eric Rosen need draft url 14:10-14:20 VPN Authentication - Michael Behringer draft-behringer-mpls-vpn-auth 14:20-14:30 More VPN Authentication - Ron Bonica draft-ietf-l3vpn-l3vpn-auth-01 14:30-14:40 IPv4/IPv6 Hybrid - Defeng Li draft-defeng-l3vpn-ipv4-ipv6-hybrid-01 14:40-14:50 Aggregation PE draft-kulmala-l3vpn-aggregation-pe-00 From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 23 22:50:20 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA06433 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:50:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4ANy-0008OK-33 for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:13:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3rND-0006tZ-38; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 02:55:55 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3rN7-0006sm-F4 for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 02:55:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA05138 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 02:55:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mx.tellabs.fi ([193.65.253.34] helo=mx2-priv.tellabs.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3rjd-0007XA-HJ for l3vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 03:19:06 -0500 Received: from fies1wms01b.tellabs.fi (HELO FIESEX1.tellabs-east.tellabsinc.net) (172.19.6.62) by mx2-priv.tellabs.fi with ESMTP; 23 Feb 2005 01:55:09 -0600 X-SBRS: None X-IronPort-AV: i="3.90,108,1107756000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="1194849:sNHT61495388" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5197C.D26AC662" Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:55:10 +0200 Message-ID: <4EE011314003124CA4389D37DC21940F013A8F01@FIESEX1.tellabs-east.tellabsinc.net> Thread-Topic: Please comment draft-kulmala-l3vpn-aggregation-pe-00 Thread-Index: AcUZfP+A3E/c/k1vQzOd0EIEm5R/Ew== From: "Kulmala, Marko" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bacfc6c7290e34d410f9bc22b825ce96 Subject: Please comment draft-kulmala-l3vpn-aggregation-pe-00 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff0adf256e4dd459cc25215cfa732ac1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 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megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4AT4-0000ZR-To for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:19:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D43SZ-0006zy-Mk; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:50:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D43SU-0006yb-Kz; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:50:10 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14526; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:50:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502232050.PAA14526@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:50:07 -0500 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-mgt-fwk-04.txt X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Framework for L3VPN Operations and Management Author(s) : Y. Mghazli, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-mgt-fwk-04.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2005-2-23 This document provides a framework for operation and management of Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks (L3VPNs). This framework intends to produce a coherent description of the significant technical issues that are important in the design of L3VPN management solutions. Selection of specific approaches, making choices among information models and protocols are outside of the scope of this document. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mgt-fwk-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l3vpn-mgt-fwk-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mgt-fwk-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-23155746.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mgt-fwk-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l3vpn-mgt-fwk-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-2-23155746.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 23 23:15:39 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA14460 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:15:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4AmS-0002KB-EZ for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:39:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3kmf-0006PW-7D; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:53:45 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D3TnU-0006Nz-02 for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:45:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA23322 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:45:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com ([61.144.161.54] helo=huawei.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D3U9l-0008Gq-Lb for l3vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 02:08:34 -0500 Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0ICA00D5TW2O6Z@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for l3vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:44:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxml01-in ([172.24.1.3]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0ICA007UWW2OHY@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for l3vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:44:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from l04955 ([10.110.49.53]) by szxml01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0ICA00CM7W74NS@szxml01-in.huawei.com>; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:47:28 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:44:50 +0800 From: Li Defeng <77cronux.leed0621@huawei.com> To: Ronald Bonica , l3vpn@ietf.org Message-id: <002e01c518aa$022c1ec0$35316e0a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <421A2D90.6040503@juniper.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt] X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt doesn't include the scenarios of IPv4/IPv6 hybrid VPN where some sites of the VPN are IPv4 sites, while other sites are IPv6 sites, or VPN backbone is composed of IPv4 AS and IPv6 AS. And IPv6 deployment will co-exist with IPv4 network, so it is important to address the above problems, why not involve this contents into draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-xx.txt. and I submitted a draft(draft-defeng-l3vpn-ipv4-ipv6-hybrid-01) to address IPv4/IPv6 hybrid VPN before 61th IETF meeting, while that draft wasn't discussed at 61th IETF meeting because I didn't get the Visa. so I hope these two drafts can be merged so that IPv4/IPv6 hybrid VPN can also be resolved. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Bonica" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 2:50 AM Subject: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt] > Folks, > > As this draft has cleared WG last call in both L3VPN and IDR, I have > forwarded it to the IESG with a request for publication. > > Ron > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:26:25 -0500 > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > CC: l3vpn@ietf.org > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks > Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : BGP-MPLS VPN extension for IPv6 VPN > Author(s) : J. De Clercq, et al. > Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt > Pages : 17 > Date : 2005-2-18 > > > From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 24 03:59:46 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA19328 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 03:59:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4FDR-0007Lk-59 for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 04:23:26 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4Epw-0007vV-8n; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 03:59:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4Epk-0007fk-Jb for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 03:58:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA19261 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 03:58:54 -0500 (EST) From: jeremy.de_clercq@alcatel.be Received: from smail.alcatel.fr ([62.23.212.165]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4FCb-0007KQ-7F for l3vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 04:22:34 -0500 Received: from bemail04.netfr.alcatel.fr (bemail04.netfr.alcatel.fr [155.132.251.33]) by smail.alcatel.fr (ALCANET/NETFR) with ESMTP id j1O8wdOh028069; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:58:40 +0100 Received: from alcatel.be ([138.203.67.106]) by bemail04.netfr.alcatel.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with ESMTP id 2005022409583864:2626 ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:58:38 +0100 Message-ID: <421D973D.7020105@alcatel.be> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:58:37 +0100 Organization: Alcatel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Li Defeng <77cronux.leed0621@huawei.com> References: <421A2D90.6040503@juniper.net> <002e01c518aa$022c1ec0$35316e0a@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <002e01c518aa$022c1ec0$35316e0a@china.huawei.com> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on BEMAIL04/BE/ALCATEL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 02/24/2005 09:58:38, Serialize by Router on BEMAIL04/BE/ALCATEL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 02/24/2005 09:58:40, Serialize complete at 02/24/2005 09:58:40 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Alcanet-MTA-scanned-and-authorized: yes X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt] X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I really think that draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt and draft-defeng-l3vpn-ipv4-ipv6-hybrid should NOT be merged. The drafts discuss completely different and orthogonal issues (offering IPv6 VPNs over an IPv4 or IPv6 core versus support for inter-working between IPv4 and IPv6 sites/networks). The drafts include different technologies and solutions (e.g. draft-defeng talks about technologies like NAT-PT). The draft greatly differ in maturity and in status (draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6 was reviewed by 2 WGs and passed WG last call while draft-defeng is an (expired?) individual draft). Li Defeng wrote: [...] > so I > hope these two drafts can be merged so that IPv4/IPv6 hybrid VPN can > also be resolved. If it is deemed necessary, then IPv4/IPv6 hybrid VPN can perfectly be resolved autonomously, without merging these two documents. regards, Jeremy. From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 24 05:30:13 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA28233 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:30:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4Gd0-00010n-Ff for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:53:54 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4GEg-0005EV-VE; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:28:47 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4GEb-0005Cj-5R for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:28:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA28144 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:28:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4GbT-0000yi-Od for l3vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:52:20 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Feb 2005 11:45:29 +0100 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1OARimY023660; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:28:28 +0100 (MET) Received: from xmb-ams-333.cisco.com ([144.254.231.78]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:28:27 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:28:16 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt] Thread-Index: AcUaT3wesfiyPEGGRAKdpNYYr0opHAACemsw From: "Francois Le Faucheur \(flefauch\)" To: , "Li Defeng" <77cronux.leed0621@huawei.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Feb 2005 10:28:27.0136 (UTC) FILETIME=[93A55800:01C51A5B] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt] X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, As explicitely stated in draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6, this document does = not concern itself with v4/v6 interworking. It has already undergone = last call with that scope definition. There is no reason to change that. If it is needed, IPv4/IPv6 interworking should be documented in a = separate document.=20 On that front, one suggestion would be to start by clarifying = why/under_which_secnarios the existing IPv4/IPv6 mechanisms fall short = in a BGP/MPLS VPN context and whether these scenarios are important for = operators. Cheers Francois >> -----Original Message----- >> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org]=20 >> On Behalf Of jeremy.de_clercq@alcatel.be >> Sent: jeudi 24 f=E9vrier 2005 09:59 >> To: Li Defeng >> Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt] >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> I really think that draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt and=20 >> draft-defeng-l3vpn-ipv4-ipv6-hybrid should NOT be merged. >>=20 >> The drafts discuss completely different and orthogonal=20 >> issues (offering=20 >> IPv6 VPNs over an IPv4 or IPv6 core versus support for inter-working=20 >> between IPv4 and IPv6 sites/networks). >>=20 >> The drafts include different technologies and solutions (e.g.=20 >> draft-defeng talks about technologies like NAT-PT). >>=20 >> The draft greatly differ in maturity and in status=20 >> (draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6 was reviewed by 2 WGs and passed=20 >> WG last call=20 >> while draft-defeng is an (expired?) individual draft). >>=20 >> Li Defeng wrote: >>=20 >> [...] >>=20 >> > so I >> > hope these two drafts can be merged so that IPv4/IPv6=20 >> hybrid VPN can >> > also be resolved. >>=20 >> If it is deemed necessary, then IPv4/IPv6 hybrid VPN can=20 >> perfectly be=20 >> resolved autonomously, without merging these two documents. >>=20 >> regards, >> Jeremy. >>=20 From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 24 11:20:15 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10393 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:20:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4M5n-0002Ih-Fz for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:43:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4LiY-0000RK-EZ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:19:58 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4LiW-0000Mq-08 for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:19:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10347 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:19:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ixe-nat1.juniper.net ([193.110.54.36] helo=up-smtp.jnpr.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4M5R-0002HW-Kk for l3vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:43:37 -0500 Received: from pi-smtp.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.36]) by up-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:19:46 +0000 Received: from proton.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.37]) by pi-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:19:44 -0500 Received: from [172.25.42.161] ([172.25.42.161]) by proton.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:19:43 -0500 Message-ID: <421DFE9E.20304@juniper.net> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:19:42 -0500 From: Ronald Bonica User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kulmala, Marko" References: <4EE011314003124CA4389D37DC21940F013A8F01@FIESEX1.tellabs-east.tellabsinc.net> In-Reply-To: <4EE011314003124CA4389D37DC21940F013A8F01@FIESEX1.tellabs-east.tellabsinc.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Feb 2005 16:19:43.0631 (UTC) FILETIME=[A63741F0:01C51A8C] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id LAA10347 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: Please comment draft-kulmala-l3vpn-aggregation-pe-00 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marko, I am not clear on the difference between your proposal and interprovider=20 Option B. In your proposal, if I were to monitor the link between=20 ASBR's what would I see on the forwarding plane? On the control plane?=20 How would that be different from interprovider Option B? (as individual contributor) Ron Kulmala, Marko wrote: > Hi, > =20 > We have submitted=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kulmala-l3vpn-aggregation-pe-= 00.txt. > =20 > This proposal defines a new way to implement inter-as MPLS VPNs. The=20 > method resembles a hybdrid of RFC2547bis ch 10 option A and B (more B=20 > than A). This proposal allows easy and secure way to partition access=20 > networks in separate AS. Partitioning access networks removes full mesh= =20 > LSP requirement and allows partitioning IGP without losing capability=20 > for end-to-end TE. Another good thing regarding security is that=20 > implicit RT filtering is provided by configured VRF. > =20 > One application for this is to build IP/MPLS regional networks pretty=20 > much in analogous way than with H-VPLS. In that application there are=20 > many benefits compared to option B: >=20 >> =EF=BF=BD- Hides core network structure (RTs and RDs) >> - =EF=BF=BDPer VPN QoS handling is possible >> - Per VPN aggregation is possible >> - Per VPN filtering is possible >> - Per VPN PSN tunnel selection is possible (e.g. separate some VPNs to= =20 >> separate RSVP tunnels in access, and use LDP in core) >> -End to end traffic engrineering is possible, even when access=20 >> networks are in separate IGP areas (and reduced number of LSPs allows=20 >> using RSVP-TE without unresonable overhead). >=20 > All comments are appreciated. > =20 > Best Regards, > Marko Kulmala >=20 >> =20 >> "Abstract >> >> This document describes operation of aggregation PE and application= s >> for it. >> >> Aggregation PE installs VPN-IPv4 routes into VRFs and acts as BGP >> next hop when it readvertises VPN-IPv4 routes with MP-BGP to other >> PE routers. This eliminates the need to LSP connectivity (or some >> other type of tunnels) between packet's ingress and egress PE.=20 >> =20 >> Aggregation PE function can be used in multi AS backbones. If routi= ng >> peering between the ASes is done between aggregation PE routers the= n >> ingress PE in one AS does not need to know reachability information >> to egress PE in other AS. Security is enhanced because no LSP is >> needed between packet's ingress and egress PEs. >> >> Another application for aggregation PE is the support of distinct >> IP/MPLS regional networks. It enables access network to be separate >> area or domain which makes the network more scalable. " >> =20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The information contained in this message may be privileged > and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader > of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee > or agent responsible for delivering this message to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction, > dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, > please notify us immediately by replying to the message and > deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 24 11:36:38 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA13067 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:36:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4MLe-00036L-JR for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:00:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4Lqj-0002wZ-Vb; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:28:25 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4Lqh-0002uB-4s for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:28:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12007 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:28:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ixe-nat1.juniper.net ([193.110.54.36] helo=up-smtp.jnpr.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4MDZ-0002lU-Qt for l3vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:52:05 -0500 Received: from pi-smtp.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.36]) by up-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:28:10 +0000 Received: from proton.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.37]) by pi-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:28:06 -0500 Received: from [172.25.42.161] ([172.25.42.161]) by proton.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:28:05 -0500 Message-ID: <421E0095.8020108@juniper.net> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:28:05 -0500 From: Ronald Bonica User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Li Defeng <77cronux.leed0621@huawei.com> References: <421A2D90.6040503@juniper.net> <002e01c518aa$022c1ec0$35316e0a@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <002e01c518aa$022c1ec0$35316e0a@china.huawei.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Feb 2005 16:28:05.0675 (UTC) FILETIME=[D17517B0:01C51A8D] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt] X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Li, Is there anything in draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05 that precludes the progression of draft-defeng-l3vpn-ipv4-ipv6-hybrid-01 as a separate work? Ron Li Defeng wrote: > draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt doesn't include the scenarios of IPv4/IPv6 hybrid VPN where some sites of the VPN are IPv4 sites, while other sites are IPv6 sites, or VPN backbone is composed of IPv4 AS and IPv6 AS. And IPv6 deployment will co-exist with IPv4 network, so it is important to address the above problems, why not involve this contents into draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-xx.txt. and I submitted a draft(draft-defeng-l3vpn-ipv4-ipv6-hybrid-01) to address IPv4/IPv6 hybrid VPN before 61th IETF meeting, while that draft wasn't discussed at 61th IETF meeting because I didn't get the Visa. so I hope these two drafts can be merged so that IPv4/IPv6 hybrid VPN can also be resolved. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ronald Bonica" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 2:50 AM > Subject: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt] > > > >>Folks, >> >>As this draft has cleared WG last call in both L3VPN and IDR, I have >>forwarded it to the IESG with a request for publication. >> >> Ron >> >> >>-------- Original Message -------- >>Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt >>Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:26:25 -0500 >>From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >>To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>CC: l3vpn@ietf.org >> >>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>directories. >>This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks >>Working Group of the IETF. >> >>Title : BGP-MPLS VPN extension for IPv6 VPN >>Author(s) : J. De Clercq, et al. >>Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgp-ipv6-05.txt >>Pages : 17 >>Date : 2005-2-18 >> >> >> > > From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 25 04:21:57 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA21739 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:21:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4bfh-0003mv-JY for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:22:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4beq-0002MQ-71; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:21:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4beP-0002DO-Bi for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:20:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA21672 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:20:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from mx.tellabs.fi ([193.65.253.34] helo=mx2-priv.tellabs.fi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4beU-0003lK-Ql for l3vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:20:51 -0500 Received: from fies1wms01b.tellabs.fi (HELO FIESEX1.tellabs-east.tellabsinc.net) (172.19.6.62) by mx2-priv.tellabs.fi with ESMTP; 25 Feb 2005 03:20:35 -0600 X-SBRS: None X-IronPort-AV: i="3.90,116,1107756000"; d="scan'208"; a="1238935:sNHT33196820" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:20:22 +0200 Message-ID: <4EE011314003124CA4389D37DC21940F013A9C0C@FIESEX1.tellabs-east.tellabsinc.net> Thread-Topic: Please comment draft-kulmala-l3vpn-aggregation-pe-00 Thread-Index: AcUajNZLqXTT4bFiSa+GXuesalnVaAAjLNlg From: "Kulmala, Marko" To: "Ronald Bonica" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 501044f827b673024f6a4cb1d46e67d2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Please comment draft-kulmala-l3vpn-aggregation-pe-00 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 16c9da4896bf5539ae3547c6c25f06a0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ron, The fundamental difference between aggregation PE and option B is that with option B ASBR advertises routes from Loc-RIB to other AS, while in aggregation PE(A-PE) routes are advertised from VRF. In other words option B extends LSPs from original PEs to other AS without knowledge of relationships between routes. Aggregation PE advertises VRF tables to other AS, and hence A-PE has knowledge of VRF associations of the routes and breaks the (conceptual) LSP. In control plane this is purely change in the RFC2547bis advertisement algorithm -- BGP line protocol is not modified. Aggregation PE does not necessarily have to change data plane forwarding (although routes might of course be selected differently). However to gain maximum advantage of this method, A-PE will propably handle packets with more behaviour than with simple SWAP -- now that VPN association of the packets is known, more complex QoS and PSN tunnel selection methods can be performed on per packet basis. Example: PE 1 ------+ RD 5:5 RD 6:6 +-----ASBR1----ASBR2---PE 3 PE 2 ------+ If routing table is: PE1 1:1:1.2.3.4/32 1:1:5.6.7.8/32 PE2 2:2:1.2.3.4/32 2:2:9.10.11.12/32 ASBR1=20 1:1:1.2.3.4/32 1:1:5.6.7.8/32 2:2:1.2.3.4/32 2:2:9.10.11.12/32 In option B ASBR2 would have identical routing table with ASBR1 (assuming no filtering takes place). This allows PE3 to see each route in original as they are, but from ASBR1 point of view all of the routes are unrelated LSPs and there is no way to do VPN specific behaviour. When acting as Aggregation PE ASBR1 imports routes to VRF. Lets assume that all of the above routes are part of one VPN (simple example, obviously there are multiple VRFs in each ASBR, each which can import multiple route targets): ASBR1 VRF 1 1:1:1.2.3.4/32 1:1:5.6.7.8/32 2:2:9.10.11.12/32 ASBR2 now sees exported routes from VRF 5:5:1.2.3.4/32 5:5:5.6.7.8/32 5:5:9.10.11.12/32 And PE3 sees same (with RD 6:6). Now ASBR1 can do VPN specific handling of forwarded packets (as association is known). Also more information about AS1 has been hidden as each VPN has been "collapsed" to minimum set of routes. If there were another connection between ASs, it would be possible to to load balancing, as it would be possible to assign RD per ASBR (instead of per origin PE). So this difference in behaviuour allows the advantages (versus opt B) described in my earlier mail. Marko=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org]=20 > On Behalf Of Ronald Bonica > Sent: 24. helmikuuta 2005 18:20 > To: Kulmala, Marko > Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Please comment draft-kulmala-l3vpn-aggregation-pe-00 >=20 > Marko, >=20 > I am not clear on the difference between your proposal and=20 > interprovider=20 > Option B. In your proposal, if I were to monitor the link=20 > between ASBR's what would I see on the forwarding plane? On=20 > the control plane?=20 > How would that be different from interprovider Option B? >=20 > (as individual contributor) > Ron >=20 >=20 > Kulmala, Marko wrote: > > Hi, > > =20 > > We have submitted > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kulmala-l3vpn-aggreg > ation-pe-00.txt. > > =20 > > This proposal defines a new way to implement inter-as MPLS=20 > VPNs. The=20 > > method resembles a hybdrid of RFC2547bis ch 10 option A and=20 > B (more B=20 > > than A). This proposal allows easy and secure way to=20 > partition access=20 > > networks in separate AS. Partitioning access networks removes full=20 > > mesh LSP requirement and allows partitioning IGP without losing=20 > > capability for end-to-end TE. Another good thing regarding=20 > security=20 > > is that implicit RT filtering is provided by configured VRF. > > =20 > > One application for this is to build IP/MPLS regional=20 > networks pretty=20 > > much in analogous way than with H-VPLS. In that application=20 > there are=20 > > many benefits compared to option B: > >=20 > >> - Hides core network structure (RTs and RDs) > >> - Per VPN QoS handling is possible > >> - Per VPN aggregation is possible > >> - Per VPN filtering is possible > >> - Per VPN PSN tunnel selection is possible (e.g. separate=20 > some VPNs=20 > >> to separate RSVP tunnels in access, and use LDP in core)=20 > -End to end=20 > >> traffic engrineering is possible, even when access networks are in=20 > >> separate IGP areas (and reduced number of LSPs allows=20 > using RSVP-TE=20 > >> without unresonable overhead). > >=20 > > All comments are appreciated. > > =20 > > Best Regards, > > Marko Kulmala > >=20 > >> =20 > >> "Abstract > >> > >> This document describes operation of aggregation PE and=20 > applications > >> for it. > >> > >> Aggregation PE installs VPN-IPv4 routes into VRFs and=20 > acts as BGP > >> next hop when it readvertises VPN-IPv4 routes with=20 > MP-BGP to other > >> PE routers. This eliminates the need to LSP=20 > connectivity (or some > >> other type of tunnels) between packet's ingress and egress PE.=20 > >> =20 > >> Aggregation PE function can be used in multi AS=20 > backbones. If routing > >> peering between the ASes is done between aggregation PE=20 > routers then > >> ingress PE in one AS does not need to know reachability=20 > information > >> to egress PE in other AS. Security is enhanced because no LSP is > >> needed between packet's ingress and egress PEs. > >> > >> Another application for aggregation PE is the support=20 > of distinct > >> IP/MPLS regional networks. It enables access network to=20 > be separate > >> area or domain which makes the network more scalable. " > >> =20 > >=20 > >=20 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The information contained in this message may be privileged and=20 > > confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this=20 > > message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent=20 > > responsible for delivering this message to the intended=20 > recipient, you=20 > > are hereby notified that any reproduction, dissemination or=20 > > distribution of this communication is strictly prohibited.=20 > If you have=20 > > received this communication in error, please notify us=20 > immediately by=20 > > replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.=20 > Thank you.=20 > > Tellabs =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction, dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 25 09:31:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20409 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:31:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4gV6-00026h-Hm for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:31:29 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4gTD-0003zz-H7; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:29:31 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4gTC-0003zs-33 for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:29:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20185 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:29:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ixe-nat1.juniper.net ([193.110.54.36] helo=up-smtp.jnpr.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4gTK-00023u-73 for l3vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:29:39 -0500 Received: from pi-smtp.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.36]) by up-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:29:19 +0000 Received: from proton.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.37]) by pi-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:29:10 -0500 Received: from [172.24.253.210] ([172.24.253.210]) by proton.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:29:10 -0500 Message-ID: <421F3635.4060304@juniper.net> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:29:09 -0500 From: Ronald Bonica User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2005 14:29:10.0665 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F12B790:01C51B46] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Agenda Update X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, This proposed agenda supersedes the one that I sent out two days ago. I have added a time slot for Seisho Yasukawa. Ron Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks (Internet Area) Monday, March 7 at 13:00-1500 ============================= CHAIRs: Ross Callon Rick Wilder Ron Bonica Agenda: 13:00-13:10 Document Status Review - Ross Callon 13:10-13:25 Multicast VPN Requirements - Thomas Morin draft-ietf-l3vpn-ppvpn-mcast-reqts-00 13:25-14:10 Multicast VPN Solution - Rahul Aggarwal & Eric Rosen need draft url 14:10-14:20 Multicast VPN Solution - Sheisho Yasukawa draft-yasukawa-l3vpn-p2mp-mcast-01 14:20-14:30 VPN Authentication - Michael Behringer draft-behringer-mpls-vpn-auth 14:30-14:40 More VPN Authentication - Ron Bonica draft-ietf-l3vpn-l3vpn-auth-01 14:40-14:50 IPv4/IPv6 Hybrid - Defeng Li draft-defeng-l3vpn-ipv4-ipv6-hybrid-01 14:50-15:00 Aggregation PE draft-kulmala-l3vpn-aggregation-pe-00 From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 25 14:31:39 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA21667 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:31:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4lBn-0000xI-Hr for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:31:52 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4lAT-0000SI-It; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:30:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4lAQ-0000QG-Pl for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:30:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA21455 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:30:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from gateway.avici.com ([208.246.215.5] helo=mailhost.avici.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4lAZ-0000um-S1 for L3vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:30:38 -0500 Received: from [10.2.20.131] (rtorvi-pc.avici.com [10.2.20.131]) by mailhost.avici.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j1PJTx7k002110 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:29:59 -0500 Message-ID: <421F7ECA.70605@avici.com> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:38:50 -0500 From: Raveendra Torvi User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: L3vpn@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Avici-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Question:draft-ietf-l3vpn-l3vpn-auth-01 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I had generic question on CE-CE Authentication. Let's say a customer changes his authentication key (token) bi-weekly for security purpose. Then how would one manages token synchronization among the CEs and avoid service interruption. Thanks, -Ravi- From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 25 15:22:33 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26912 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:22:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4lz3-0001ul-U8 for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:22:47 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4lyi-0007C2-UH; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:22:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4lyg-00077D-Rj for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:22:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26882 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:22:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ixe-nat1.juniper.net ([193.110.54.36] helo=up-smtp.jnpr.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4lyr-0001uI-SQ for L3vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:22:35 -0500 Received: from pi-smtp.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.36]) by up-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:22:10 +0000 Received: from proton.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.37]) by pi-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:22:09 -0500 Received: from [172.24.253.220] ([172.24.253.220]) by proton.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:22:09 -0500 Message-ID: <421F88F0.1040101@juniper.net> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:22:08 -0500 From: Ronald Bonica User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Raveendra Torvi References: <421F7ECA.70605@avici.com> In-Reply-To: <421F7ECA.70605@avici.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2005 20:22:09.0332 (UTC) FILETIME=[AE8AD740:01C51B77] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: L3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: Question:draft-ietf-l3vpn-l3vpn-auth-01 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ravi, The CE router has a few choices in this regard. The draft says that if a CE router receives a token that it does not recognize, it can take whatever action that its security policy dictates. The following are two possible policies: 1) CE isolates itself from the VPN and emits an alarm 2) CE remains connected to the VPN and emits an alarm If the CE implements the first policy, sometime before the transition, you will want to configure each CE router so that it will accept two tokens. These represent a) this week's token and b) next week's token. So, service will not be interrupted during the transition. If the CE implements the second policy, you don't need to be so careful. You can let the CE emit an alarm and configure your NMS to ignore the alarm if it contains last week's token Ron Raveendra Torvi wrote: > Hi, > I had generic question on CE-CE Authentication. > Let's say a customer changes his authentication key (token) bi-weekly > for security purpose. Then how would one manages token synchronization > among the CEs and avoid service interruption. > Thanks, > -Ravi- > From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 25 16:31:32 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA05102 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:31:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4n3r-00047Z-CE for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:31:47 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4n2Y-0007NA-Bc; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:30:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4n2W-0007N1-4d for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:30:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA05061 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:30:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from gateway.avici.com ([208.246.215.5] helo=mailhost.avici.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4n2i-00046k-SE for L3vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:30:37 -0500 Received: from [10.2.20.131] (rtorvi-pc.avici.com [10.2.20.131]) by mailhost.avici.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j1PLUB7k022587; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:30:12 -0500 Message-ID: <421F9AF6.40809@avici.com> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:39:02 -0500 From: Raveendra Torvi User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald Bonica References: <421F7ECA.70605@avici.com> <421F88F0.1040101@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <421F88F0.1040101@juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Avici-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: L3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: Question:draft-ietf-l3vpn-l3vpn-auth-01 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Ron, Can you please clarify one more doubt on the following section/paragraph, 2. Overview ..... ..... If a customer device receives a token that it does not recognize, it issues an alarm requesting operator intervention. The customer device may also withdraw from the VPN, neither sending traffic to the VPN nor accepting traffic from it until an operator clears the security condition. My Assumption : A misconfigured PE can send a VPN token to unrelated VPN customer(s). What if a malicious customer's CE does not complain about it and keeps sniffing some other VPN customer's traffic. How would a VPN customer trust the other VPN customer 's policy.( unless all the CE's are managed by the provider.) Am I missing something here ? Thanks, -Ravi- Ronald Bonica wrote: > Ravi, > > The CE router has a few choices in this regard. The draft says that if > a CE router receives a token that it does not recognize, it can take > whatever action that its security policy dictates. The following are > two possible policies: > > 1) CE isolates itself from the VPN and emits an alarm > 2) CE remains connected to the VPN and emits an alarm > > If the CE implements the first policy, sometime before the transition, > you will want to configure each CE router so that it will accept two > tokens. These represent a) this week's token and b) next week's token. > So, service will not be interrupted during the transition. > > If the CE implements the second policy, you don't need to be so > careful. You can let the CE emit an alarm and configure your NMS to > ignore the alarm if it contains last week's token > > Ron > > > Raveendra Torvi wrote: > >> Hi, >> I had generic question on CE-CE Authentication. >> Let's say a customer changes his authentication key (token) >> bi-weekly for security purpose. Then how would one manages token >> synchronization among the CEs and avoid service interruption. >> Thanks, >> -Ravi- >> > From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 25 18:31:15 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA15469 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:31:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4ovk-0006II-5d for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:31:32 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4osq-000633-0J; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:28:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4osn-00062t-UQ for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:28:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA15283 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:28:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from natint3.juniper.net ([66.129.224.36] helo=roque-bsd.juniper.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4osy-0006Dz-E6 for l3vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:28:43 -0500 Received: from roque-bsd.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by roque-bsd.juniper.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j1PNSGX8006172; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:28:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roque@roque-bsd.juniper.net) Received: (from roque@localhost) by roque-bsd.juniper.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.3/Submit) id j1PNSC0j006169; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:28:12 -0800 (PST) From: Pedro Roque Marques MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16927.46220.476594.675078@roque-bsd.juniper.net> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:28:12 -0800 To: "Kulmala, Marko" In-Reply-To: <4EE011314003124CA4389D37DC21940F013A9C0C@FIESEX1.tellabs-east.tellabsinc.net> References: <4EE011314003124CA4389D37DC21940F013A9C0C@FIESEX1.tellabs-east.tellabsinc.net> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.4 (patch 12) "Portable Code" XEmacs Lucid X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Please comment draft-kulmala-l3vpn-aggregation-pe-00 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marko Kulmala writes: > Ron, The fundamental difference between aggregation PE and option B > is that with option B ASBR advertises routes from Loc-RIB to other > AS, while in aggregation PE(A-PE) routes are advertised from VRF. So you do path selection without the RD... but you can achieve this with option B simply by configuring the same RD in the PE VRFs that you wish to be eligible for path selection. Are you claiming that there is a sustantial problem w/ coordinating RD assignment that it justifies developping an entire new "rd-aggregation" mechanism ? Or do you have some other motivation ? It is not clear to me what the application is. It would be nice if you could elaborate on this a bit. In fact, i'm more used to hearing service providers concerned about the inverse problem: making sure that RD assingment is different so that they can have visibility for multiple alternative path for the same IP prefix. regards, Pedro. From l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 25 21:53:08 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA27041 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:53:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4s57-00015j-WA for l3vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:53:26 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4s2k-0005v0-K7; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:50:58 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1D4s2e-0005uk-C0 for l3vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:50:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA26908 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:50:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ixe-nat1.juniper.net ([193.110.54.36] helo=up-smtp.jnpr.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4s2t-00013Q-F3 for L3vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:51:07 -0500 Received: from pi-smtp.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.36]) by up-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 26 Feb 2005 02:50:42 +0000 Received: from proton.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.37]) by pi-smtp.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:50:40 -0500 Received: from [172.24.253.163] ([172.24.253.163]) by proton.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:50:40 -0500 Message-ID: <421FE3FC.5060507@juniper.net> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:50:36 -0500 From: Ronald Bonica User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Raveendra Torvi References: <421F7ECA.70605@avici.com> <421F88F0.1040101@juniper.net> <421F9AF6.40809@avici.com> In-Reply-To: <421F9AF6.40809@avici.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Feb 2005 02:50:40.0339 (UTC) FILETIME=[F4FC3A30:01C51BAD] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: L3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: Question:draft-ietf-l3vpn-l3vpn-auth-01 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l3vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ravi, In order to join a VPN, a VPN site must give the PE to which it is attached a token*. The PE distributes this token to all directly connected CEs that participate in the VPN. The PE also distributes the token to all remote PEs. The remote PEs, in turn, distribute the token to all CEs contained by the VPN. Tokens follow connectivity. If a VPN site is joined to a VPN, the token that represents that site will be distributed to all sites contained by the VPN. The Service Provider may provision Customer A's site into Customer B's VPN. When that happens, Customer A's token will appear at *all* of customer B's sites and *all* of Customer B's CE routers will complain. Likewise, Customer B's tokens will appear at Customer A's misconfigured site. It doesn't matter if Customer A keeps quiet about the situation. Customer B will know that something is wrong. In this example, we assume that Customer A and Customer B manage their own CE routers. Ron * There is one exception to this rule in which the PE assigns a NULL token. See the draft for details. Raveendra Torvi wrote: > Thanks Ron, > Can you please clarify one more doubt on the following section/paragraph, > > 2. Overview > > ..... > ..... > > If a customer device receives a token that it does not recognize, it > issues an alarm requesting operator intervention. The customer > device may also withdraw from the VPN, neither sending traffic to the > VPN nor accepting traffic from it until an operator clears the > security condition. > > > My Assumption : A misconfigured PE can send a VPN token to unrelated VPN > customer(s). > > What if a malicious customer's CE does not complain about it and keeps > sniffing some other VPN customer's traffic. How would a VPN customer > trust the other VPN customer 's policy.( unless all the CE's are managed > by the provider.) > Am I missing something here ? > Thanks, > -Ravi- > > > > Ronald Bonica wrote: > >> Ravi, >> >> The CE router has a few choices in this regard. The draft says that if >> a CE router receives a token that it does not recognize, it can take >> whatever action that its security policy dictates. The following are >> two possible policies: >> >> 1) CE isolates itself from the VPN and emits an alarm >> 2) CE remains connected to the VPN and emits an alarm >> >> If the CE implements the first policy, sometime before the transition, >> you will want to configure each CE router so that it will accept two >> tokens. These represent a) this week's token and b) next week's token. >> So, service will not be interrupted during the transition. >> >> If the CE implements the second policy, you don't need to be so >> careful. You can let the CE emit an alarm and configure your NMS to >> ignore the alarm if it contains last week's token >> >> Ron >> >> >> Raveendra Torvi wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> I had generic question on CE-CE Authentication. >>> Let's say a customer changes his authentication key (token) >>> bi-weekly for security purpose. Then how would one manages token >>> synchronization among the CEs and avoid service interruption. >>> Thanks, >>> -Ravi- >>> >> > From mfjemzsvwrh@hotmail.com Sun Feb 27 01:37:50 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA05319; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:37:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D5I4G-0002l8-Fd; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:38:18 -0500 Received: from [219.136.130.160] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D5I3e-0005QD-52; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:37:40 -0500 Received: from [53.189.68.159] (helo=..dearriba.com) by smtp2.cistron.nl with esmtp ( 3.35 #1 ()) id 469LFL-0088PT-26 Message-ID: <22145813144732.R37451@.noc..gr> Sender: freeradius-devel-mfjemzsvwrh@hotmail.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 04:35:14 -0200 From: "Pat Lin" To: l3vpn-admin@ietf.org Subject: Look...Here L3vpn-admin X-Spam-Score: 6.0 (++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 This Months speciial: Vi-codinn - 199.00 Valiuum - 169.00 Viagraa - 199.00 Cia-llis - 269.00 Codeinne - 219.00 Xa-naax - 179.00 All orderrs are delivered by UPS with full tracking 24/7. 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