Subject: Re: [Lager] [lager] #3 (specification): Clarify domain element as it pertains to Root

From: "lager issue tracker" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 22:10:55 -0000

#3: Clarify domain element as it pertains to Root

Changes (by [email-masked]):

 * owner:   => [email-masked]
 * component:   => specification

Comment:

 Believe that is fixed

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-------------------------+-------------------------------------------------
 Reporter:               |       Owner:  draft-ietf-lager-
  [email-masked]   |  [email-masked]
     Type:  enhancement  |      Status:  new
 Priority:  minor        |   Milestone:
Component:               |     Version:
  specification          |  Resolution:
 Severity:  -            |
 Keywords:               |
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Ticket URL: <http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/lager/trac/ticket/3#comment:1>
lager <http://tools.ietf.org/lager/>

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From: "lager issue tracker" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 21:32:59 -0000

Comment (by [email-masked]):

 Rereading, I see that the draft says that "." should be used for the root,
 but does not enforce that the scope element of type domain is always
 absolute.
 Current text has:

 "A type of "domain" means that the scope is a domain that represents the
 apex of the DNS zon to which the LGR is applied. The value must be a valid
 domain name. In the case of the DNS root zone, should be represented as
 ".""

 That covers the case of the root, that's why I thought this might be
 fixed. However, it does not say that the scope value of type domain MUST
 be absolute.

 With the <scope> element having a type attribute, it might be possible to
 add a separate type for non-absolute domains should that become required,
 so we wouldn't lose anything by changing to:

 "A type of "domain" means that the scope is a domain that represents the
 apex of the DNS zone to which the LGR is applied. For that type, the
 content of the "scope" element  MUST be a valid absolute domain name. In
 the case of the DNS root zone, this means it is represented as ".""

Ticket URL: <http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/lager/trac/ticket/3#comment:2>
lager <http://tools.ietf.org/lager/>

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From: "lager issue tracker" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 02:21:48 -0000

Comment (by [email-masked]):

 A change is needed anyway:

 "In the case of the DNS root zone, should be represented as "."
 →
 "In the case of the DNS root zone, this should be represented as "."
 or even better:
 "The DNS root zone is represented as ".""
 (Lower case 'should' can lead to all kinds of comments, and isn't needed
 here at all.)

 Also, "zon" → "zone" in the first sentence.

 In addition, it should say whether the domain name has to use A-labels or
 U-labels (I'd personally prefer U-labels, because A-labels are completely
 obscure).

 Also, it should explicitly say that (except for the Root Zone), there is
 no trailing dot.

 As to non-absolute domain names, what would the use case be, if any? How
 would the base be determined?

 As for "Other types of scope are application defined", this is bad
 extensibility. We couldn't, in the second version of a spec, e.g. use type
 ='relative-domain' for relative domains because we wouldn't know whether
 that's not already used somewhere in the wild.

Ticket URL: <http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/lager/trac/ticket/3#comment:3>
lager <http://tools.ietf.org/lager/>

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From: "lager issue tracker" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 07:28:10 -0000

Consolidating the comments, this would be the text to go into the draft:

 "A type of "domain" means that the scope is a domain that represents the
 apex of the DNS zone to which the LGR is applied. For that type, the
 content of the "scope" element MUST be a valid absolute domain name,
 without a trailing dot. However, the DNS root zone is represented as "."."

 Now, I tend to agree on the lack of use case for non-absolute domains, but
 the extensibility is useful, yet may need to be a bit better managed. I've
 opened another ticket for that, because it is drifting from the original
 concern.

Ticket URL: <http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/lager/trac/ticket/3#comment:4>
lager <http://tools.ietf.org/lager/>

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From: Peter Koch <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 17:40:53 +0200

>  without a trailing dot. However, the DNS root zone is represented as "."."

the 'zone' vs 'domain' appears ambiguous to me.  If the scope is a "domain"
that represents the apex of a DNS zone, then obviously the scope extends
beyond the zone towards the leaves, i.e., beyond delegation points.
Is that really intended?

-Peter

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From: Asmus Freytag <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:37:15 -0700

> beyond the zone towards the leaves, i.e., beyond delegation points.

The value of the <scope> element is a domain. The ticket was about how 
this was specified,
and we seem to all agree that we want it specified as absolute.

The wording in the spec leaves open whether a zone can span multiple 
levels. I don't
know whether that is reasonable or not, but in any case, the value of 
the <scope>
element would always be a single domain, as specified the apex.

Your comment talks about the scope extending beyond the zone. That's not 
what is
in the language of the spec. The extent of the zone is not specified in 
the <scope>
element.

I think the idea is that such aspects are to be handled in the 
description. So, if you created
an LGR for an intranet, you'd specify the apex in the scope and in the 
description stated
that it applied to all levels below.

More generally, the idea was to not attempt to not cover all information 
about the LGR
in dedicated metadata field, but only the most essential items.

Very specialized dedicated fields have a way of getting filled with 
wrong information,
whether from laziness or from a misunderstanding of the intent, which 
then makes them
worse than useless.

A./
>
> -Peter
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lager mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lager
>

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From: Asmus Freytag <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 13:38:03 -0700

A./

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From: "lager issue tracker" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 18:28:47 -0000

* status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => fixed

-- 
-------------------------+-------------------------------------------------
 Reporter:               |       Owner:  draft-ietf-lager-
  [email-masked]   |  [email-masked]
     Type:  enhancement  |      Status:  closed
 Priority:  minor        |   Milestone:
Component:               |     Version:
  specification          |  Resolution:  fixed
 Severity:  -            |
 Keywords:               |
-------------------------+-------------------------------------------------

Ticket URL: <http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/lager/trac/ticket/3#comment:5>
lager <http://tools.ietf.org/lager/>