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Subject: [mpls] Fw: liaison response to to IETF ccamp WG on MFA Forum MPLS
CNI
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Hi,
The MPLS WG may be interested in a liaison received by CCAMP on the
definition of a CNI by the MFA.
Adrian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Farrel"
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:22 PM
Subject: Fw: liaison response to to IETF ccamp WG on MFA Forum MPLS CNI
> Hi,
>
> We have received the attached liaison from the MFA.
> I expect it will be posted on the IETF web site in due course. In the mean
> time, you can find it at www.olddog.co.uk/ccamp.htm
>
> The liaison does not ask for any action from us, but we may want to review
> the new specification and comment on it.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J. Rao Cherukuri"
> To: ; ; ;
>
> Cc: "David Sinicrope (RL/TNT)" ;
> ; "BOCCI Matthew"
> ; "Ross Callon" ;
> ;
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:34 PM
> Subject: liaison response to to IETF ccamp WG on MFA Forum MPLS CNI
>
>
> Hi Adrian, Deborah,
>
> Thank you and the CCAMP WG for providing such thorough and valuable
> comments. We have reviewed and incorporated many of them into the CNI
> document. There are a few that we have not incorporated for various
> reasons. We have provided the rationale for these decisions inline
> below.
>
> Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns.
>
> Best Regards,
> David Sinicrope AD Working Group Chair
>
> Rao Cherukuri TC Chair
>
> ***************************************
>
> We note that you have opted to define a new RSVP object to support a
> multi-class LSP following the rules for vendor private assignment as
> described in section 2.2 of RFC3936. We believe that you may have
> misinterpreted the purpose of vendor private extensions since such
> extensions are specifically not intended to interoperate, but you are
> attempting to define a specification directly for the purpose of
> interworking devices from different vendors. In your case it would seem
> to make more sense to define a standardized extension to the protocol.
>
> MFAF> At the time of development of our specification draft-andersson
> was not adopted by IETF. Also, the Multi Class specification wasn't in
> a state where we could refer to it. Consequently, we chose to use the
> vendor private TLV to expedite completion of our document. In
> subsequent revisions of the CNI we will consider following
> draft-andersson and obtaining a standard Multi Class TLV.
>
> Should you decide that a standardized extension is better able to
> deliver the functionality that you require, we should like to draw your
> attention to draft-andersson-rtg-gmpls-change-06.txt that defines how
> other SDOs may influence the development of MPLS and GMPLS protocols
> within the IETF, and which is currently in IETF last call. The (G)MPLS
> suites of protocols have become popular among multiple SDOs resulting in
> a need for IETF to clarify its role as the responsible SDO for (G)MPLS
> protocol extensions so as to prevent unnecessary replication of
> functionality and the resulting interoperability problems.
>
> 1. The document is marked as Straw Ballot Text. Can you tell us
> what that means the status of the work is?
> MFAF> Review is completed and document is in "last call".
>
> 2. We think that your use of terminology may be a little loose.
>
> In many cases, where you say "MPLS" you are probably referring
> to the data plane, and specifically a packet-switching data
> plane with an MPLS encapsulation.
>
> But in other cases, "MPLS" and "MPLS-TE" are synonymous and
> refer to a signaling/routing control plane using the MPLS-TE
> extensions to RSVP and to the two IGPs OSPF and IS-IS.
>
> In many cases you say "GMPLS-TE" which is not something we
> specifically recognise although we can assume that you mean
> simply "GMPLS". Sometimes, where you are trying to
> distinguish a TE LSP established using MPLS-TE from one set
> up using GMPLS you may intend to say "GMPLS TE-LSP" rather
> than "GMPLS-TE LSP".
>
> We feel that close attention to the terminology may help
> clarify the document.
>
> MFAF> We have gone through the document and reflected your suggestions
> in the text.
>
> 3. Section 1.1 states:
> The purpose of this specification is to define an MPLS-based
> Client to Network Interconnect (CNI) for establishing GMPLS
> Traffic Engineered (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs).
> Can we assume that this means that the client-to-client LSPs
> are established using GMPLS protocols, but that the signaling
> within the core network is out of scope? Especially since
> section 1.2 states:
> At the CNI, it is not desirable to have the client equipment
> participate in the internal control protocols of the MPLS
> network.
> MFAF> We have reflected this suggestion in the text of section 1.2.
>
> 4. Can you clarify why you have selected GMPLS protocols and not
> MPLS-TE protocols on which to build your CNI. We are not
> opposed to this, but are seeking to understand the choice.
> Perhaps the main reason is the requirement for bidirectional
> LSPs.
> MFAF> To facilitate use of bi-direction LSPs and to leverage existing
> implementations of the standard.
> We have reflected this rationale in the text of section 1.2.
>
> 5. Can you clarify whether the core network is assumed to be
> PSC only? That is, for example, if the CNI encoding is POS,
> would it be acceptable for the PE and the rest of the core
> network to switch the LSP as TDM until the remote PE or even
> CE, or do you require that the PE must perform packet
> switching? If the PE must perform packet switching, is it
> still acceptable for the core LSP (PE-PE) to be switched at
> some other technology?
> MFAF>We assume that the core is PSC only. The CNI is implemented at the
> edge of the network.
> Details of the core network beyond what is stated in section 1.3 are
> beyond the scope of the CNI.
>
> 6. Section 1.3 states:
> Where the network uses MPLS-TE signaling, the PE routers are
> expected to perform the translation.
> It is our opinion that this translation is non-trivial and may
> be impossible for some of the GMPLS services that are
> available at the CNI. For example, supporting a bidirectional
> service over an MPLS-TE signaling network requires additional
> coordination between the end-points that is currently not
> available in the MPLS-TE extensions to RSVP-TE.
> From the following text in section 7.1, we assume that the PE
> may refuse a CNI request if it is unable to provide the
> required level of function.
> The transport network in the provider network is a GMPLS or
> MPLS-TE based packet switched network that must support
> request for uni-directional LSPs and may support requests
> for bi-directional LSPs
> MFAF> In section 1.3 we state that the core has support for a minimum
> set of GMPLS capabilities.
> e.g., bidirectional LSP support, traffic engineering QoS capabilities.
>
> 7. Section 2.1
> The correct expansion of "GMPLS" is "Generalized Multiprotocol
> Label Switching". In view of you chosen expansion of "MPLS",
> you may prefer to show this as "Generalized Multi Protocol
> Label Switching".
>
> The correct expansion of "FEC" is "Forwarding Equivalence
> Class".
>
> MFAF> We have reflected this suggestion in the text. See the Acronyms
> section.
>
> 8. Section 7.2 states:
> The CE and PE nodes are inter-connected by point-to-point
> interfaces. The signaling channel is "in-band", i.e., the
> labeled packets share the same access connection as the
> RSVP-TE signaling.
> This is an acceptable, but not required, method of deploying
> GMPLS-based signaling. It is our suspicion reading this very
> short section that it is your intention to forbid the use of
> the IF_ID RSVP_HOP Object at the CNI. Can you confirm or deny
> this?
>
> MFAF> At our last meeting in Chicago we decided to allow the use of the
> IF_ID_RSVP_HOP as an option. See section 7.2.
>
> 9. Section 7.3 states:
> A client need only know its own address, a reachable address
> of the adjacent PE-node, and know the address of any other
> client to which it wishes to connect. The addresses listed
> above must be configured on each client.
>
> A PE need only know (and track) the addresses on interfaces
> attached to clients, as well as the Node IDs of these
> attached clients. In addition, the IP/MPLS network needs to
> know reachability to the interface addresses and Node IDs of
> other PEs to which an attached client is permitted to
> connect.
>
> This appears to miss the fact that the client will address a
> CNI connection request to a remote client address. The local
> PE must, therefore, know how to route to these client
> addresses that are outside the core routing domain.
>
> Perhaps the final sentence should say CE not PE?
>
> But in 9.1.2 you have:
> When a PE receives a Path message from a client that
> contains no ERO indicating transit network selection, then
> the PE is responsible for progressing the Path message
> toward the destination. The progression of the Path
> message is beyond the scope of this specification.
>
> While the details are clearly out of scope, it *is* relevant
> to the definition of the CNI how the core acquires and
> distributes the client-side addressing information that is
> necessary for routing across the core. You will observe that
> the problem you are solving (including the fact that the
> client addresses may come from an address space that overlaps
> with the core address space) is similar to the L3VPN problem.
>
> MFAF> We corrected the text to address this issue in section 7.3.
> Also see the changes in section 9.1.2.
>
> 10. What is the expected behavior from the core network when an
> E-LSP is requested at the CNI?
>
> Can we assume that the expectation is that an appropriate
> E-LSP will also be established across the core so that
> Diffserv behavior will be performed along the whole length
> of the client-client connection, or is this not a
> requirement?
>
> If core Diffserv behavior is required, how will the core
> handle the presence of multiple classes?
>
> MFAF>This is assumed and although how it is done is beyond the
> scope of the specification, section 7.4.1 now states what is expected of
> the network.
>
> 11. You are correct to observe that the ERO is optional in GMPLS
> implementations (sections 9.1.1 and 9.1.2), however, since
> you are specifying a profile for use at the CNI, and since
> both the CE and the PE must be CNI-aware (i.e., you cannot
> simply use legacy implementations) you may find it convenient
> to mandate support of the ERO at the CNI.
>
> We believe that in practice all implementations support ERO.
>
> MFAF> We still do not mandate ERO because there was no agreement
> within the MFAF TC to mandate it. See changes made in 9.1.2.
>
> 12. In section 9.1.1 you have:
> The client populates the ERO object with only one sub-object
> containing an Autonomous System Number (ASN) representing a
> transit network beyond the originating service provider.
> The client equipment must set the ASN sub-object 'L' bit to
> 1, indicating a loose route.
> It is not completely clear what is meant by 'the originating
> service provider', but we assume that this refers to the
> network that the ingress PE belongs to. In this case, this
> ERO is malformed and will be rejected. The first sub-object
> of a received ERO must always define an abstract node that
> the receiver is a member of. See RFC 3209, section 4.3.4.1,
> point 1).
>
> MFAF> We reflected this in section 9.1.1.
>
> 13. In section 9.4:
> PE next to a client receives a PathErr with
> Path_State_Removed from the network, it may in turn
> generate either a ResvTear or PathTear, whichever is
> applicable, to be sent to the client.
> There are no circumstances in which a PE receiving a PathErr
> with Path_State_Removed from the network would send PathTear
> to the client.
>
> It is unclear to us why you would specify that the CNI built
> on GMPLS might not use this standard GMPLS procedure.
>
> MFAF>We reflected this in section 9.4.
>
> 14. In section 9.5.3:
> The Extended Classtype object is signaled in the Path
> message, and saved in the Path State Block (PSB) at every
> hop.
> We recommend that you simply state that the state is stored
> as every hop. The existence of a PSB is implementation-
> specific.
>
> Can you please clarify "at every hop". Are you expecting
> nodes in the core network to store this information. If so,
> you should note that the core nodes will not recognize the
> object class and will reject any messages carrying it.
>
> We also suggest that before progressing your own extensions
> for multi-class DSTE LSPs you should look at the existing
> work within the IETF:
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-minei-diffserv-te-multi-class-
> 02.txt
> -02.txt> .
> If this work is not adequate for your requirements, we
> would encourage you to work with its authors to produce
> a single standardized solution within the IETF.
>
> MFAF>We removed all references to PSB, and all reference to "at every
> hop".
> This better aligns with our scope of not specifying the network
> internals.
> See section 9.5.3.
>
> 15. In 9.5.4:
> An LSR that recognizes the Extended Classtype object and
> that receives a Path message which contains the Extended
> Classtype object but which does not contain a Label Request
> object or which does not have a session type of
> LSP_Tunnel_IPv4, must send a PathErr message towards the
> sender with the error code 'extended-classtype Error' and
> an error value of 'Unexpected Extended Classtype object'.
> These are defined below:
> Why do you define new parsing behavior for the absence of a
> Label Request object (by the way, you should say Generalized
> Label Request object, since this is GMPLS)? The absence of
> mandatory objects is already covered in RFC2205.
>
> MFAF> We removed the reference to "the absence of (Generalized) Label
> Request object".
> This implies that if the Generalized Label Request object is missing,
> the relevant procedures of RFC 2205 will
> be performed.
>
> 16. The error code defined in 9.5.4 is conformant with RFC 3936.
> You may wish to look at draft-swallow-rsvp-user-error-spec
> in case this gives you the ability to handle more detailed
> private error codes.
>
> MFAF> In our specifications we are limited to referring only to
> documents
> that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond. We will
> certainly
> consider reference to draft-swallow-rsvp-user-error-spec in future
> revisions of the CNI.
>
> Finally, we would like to refer you to
> draft-kumaki-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-reqts-01.txt and
> draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwork-fmwk-01.txt for the latest state
> of discussions in CCAMP with respect to interworking MPLS and GMPLS
> networks.
>
> MFAF> Thanks for pointing out these documents. We will consider these
> should our work
> scope be expanded to include details of the core network and MPLS and
> GMPLS interworking.
>
> Attachment(s):
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:01:47 +0400
From: Mohammed Shahnawaz
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_____
From: Mohammed Shahnawaz [mailto:mshahnawaz@huawei.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:23 AM
To: 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'
Subject: PWE3
Hi,
Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology in a simple way? Also,
how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network using PWE3 tech?
Kindly someone explain.
Best regards,
Shahnawaz
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Subject: PWE3
Hi,
Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology
in a simple way? Also, how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network
using PWE3 tech?
Kindly someone explain.
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<484BF91C-161E-46B9-A9BF-CBE4FA7C863E@suspicious.org>
From: "Mohamed, Liban [NTK]"
To: "Truman Boyes" ,
"Mohammed Shahnawaz"
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Cc: mpls@lists.ietf.org, mpls@uu.net, mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: [mpls] RE: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
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Truman,
PWE3 is not MPLS specific technology, PWE3 encapsulation uses IP(both =
version), L2TP, and MPLS. It basically emulates L2, QinQ, and VPLS =
requires MPLS, where PWE3 works with IP backbone using L2TP. Yes it is =
possible to carry the TDM E1 with PWE3, this is great technology, it =
allows SP's to offer legacy technology such us Frame-Relay/ATM with the =
existing IP backbone, so PWE3 will emulate Ethernet/FR-RELAY/ATM where =
you can assign VC ID and build a tunnel, We use L2TPv3
Mohamed,
Let me know if you need more info, unicast me and I will be happy to =
provide you more info
Thanks,
Liban Mohamed
NTAC-IP=20
Sprint/Nextel
www.sprint.net=20
liban.mohamed@sprint.com
(W) 678-291-3438 =20
(PCS) 404-441-9701
-----Original Message-----
From: Truman Boyes [mailto:truman@suspicious.org]=20
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:35 PM
To: Mohammed Shahnawaz
Cc: mpls-ops@mplsrc.com; mpls@uu.net; mpls@lists.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
Hi Mohammed,
PWE3 technology is for creation of pseudowires in MPLS domains. =20
Basically, the PE devices in your MPLS domain will terminate and =20
carry the "circuit" through to another PE where the circuit tail will =20
proceed to a CE device.
QinQ is double 802.1q tagged Ethernet frames.
VPLS is a MPLS technology where you have a multipoint to multipoint =20
communication method for Ethernet technologies. It basically creates =20
a large virtual lan switch across a MPLS network.
How are these items related? Well, they all use MPLS, and they all =20
relate to layer 2 transport. Sometimes on PWE3 and VPLS networks you =20
wish to carry QinQ ...
best regards,
Truman
On 3/09/2007, at 1:01 AM, Mohammed Shahnawaz wrote:
>
> From: Mohammed Shahnawaz [mailto:mshahnawaz@huawei.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:23 AM
> To: 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'
> Subject: PWE3
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology in a simple =20
> way? Also, how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
>
> Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network using PWE3 tech?
>
>
>
> Kindly someone explain.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Shahnawaz
>
>
>
>
-------
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Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:01:47 +0400
From: Mohammed Shahnawaz
To: mpls-ops@mplsrc.com, mpls@uu.net, mpls@lists.ietf.org
Message-id: <001401c7ed61$6de84e20$9c49c40a@china.huawei.com>
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_____
From: Mohammed Shahnawaz [mailto:mshahnawaz@huawei.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:23 AM
To: 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'
Subject: PWE3
Hi,
Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology in a simple way? Also,
how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network using PWE3 tech?
Kindly someone explain.
Best regards,
Shahnawaz
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From: Mohammed
Shahnawaz [mailto:mshahnawaz@huawei.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007
8:23 AM
To: 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'
Subject: PWE3
Hi,
Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology
in a simple way? Also, how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network
using PWE3 tech?
Kindly someone explain.
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Sep 04 08:32:27 2007
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<484BF91C-161E-46B9-A9BF-CBE4FA7C863E@suspicious.org>
From: "Mohamed, Liban [NTK]"
To: "Truman Boyes" ,
"Mohammed Shahnawaz"
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Cc: mpls@lists.ietf.org, mpls@uu.net, mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: [mpls] RE: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
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Truman,
PWE3 is not MPLS specific technology, PWE3 encapsulation uses IP(both =
version), L2TP, and MPLS. It basically emulates L2, QinQ, and VPLS =
requires MPLS, where PWE3 works with IP backbone using L2TP. Yes it is =
possible to carry the TDM E1 with PWE3, this is great technology, it =
allows SP's to offer legacy technology such us Frame-Relay/ATM with the =
existing IP backbone, so PWE3 will emulate Ethernet/FR-RELAY/ATM where =
you can assign VC ID and build a tunnel, We use L2TPv3
Mohamed,
Let me know if you need more info, unicast me and I will be happy to =
provide you more info
Thanks,
Liban Mohamed
NTAC-IP=20
Sprint/Nextel
www.sprint.net=20
liban.mohamed@sprint.com
(W) 678-291-3438 =20
(PCS) 404-441-9701
-----Original Message-----
From: Truman Boyes [mailto:truman@suspicious.org]=20
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:35 PM
To: Mohammed Shahnawaz
Cc: mpls-ops@mplsrc.com; mpls@uu.net; mpls@lists.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
Hi Mohammed,
PWE3 technology is for creation of pseudowires in MPLS domains. =20
Basically, the PE devices in your MPLS domain will terminate and =20
carry the "circuit" through to another PE where the circuit tail will =20
proceed to a CE device.
QinQ is double 802.1q tagged Ethernet frames.
VPLS is a MPLS technology where you have a multipoint to multipoint =20
communication method for Ethernet technologies. It basically creates =20
a large virtual lan switch across a MPLS network.
How are these items related? Well, they all use MPLS, and they all =20
relate to layer 2 transport. Sometimes on PWE3 and VPLS networks you =20
wish to carry QinQ ...
best regards,
Truman
On 3/09/2007, at 1:01 AM, Mohammed Shahnawaz wrote:
>
> From: Mohammed Shahnawaz [mailto:mshahnawaz@huawei.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:23 AM
> To: 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'
> Subject: PWE3
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology in a simple =20
> way? Also, how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
>
> Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network using PWE3 tech?
>
>
>
> Kindly someone explain.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Shahnawaz
>
>
>
>
-------
The MPLS-OPS Mailing List
Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.mplsrc.com/mplsops.shtml
Archive: http://www.mplsrc.com/mpls-ops_archive.shtml
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Sep 04 08:32:32 2007
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From: "Mohamed, Liban [NTK]"
To: "Mohamed, Liban [NTK]" ,
"Truman Boyes" ,
"Mohammed Shahnawaz"
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Cc: mpls@lists.ietf.org, mpls@uu.net, mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: [mpls] RE: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
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Truman,
PWE3 is not MPLS specific technology, PWE3 encapsulation uses IP(both =
version), L2TP, and MPLS. It basically emulates L2, QinQ, and VPLS =
requires MPLS, where PWE3 works with IP backbone using L2TP. Yes it is =
possible to carry the TDM E1 with PWE3, this is great technology, it =
allows SP's to offer legacy technology such us Frame-Relay/ATM with the =
existing IP backbone, so PWE3 will emulate Ethernet/FR-RELAY/ATM where =
you can assign VC ID and build a tunnel, We use L2TPv3
Mohamed,
Let me know if you need more info, unicast me and I will be happy to =
provide you more info
Thanks,
Liban Mohamed
NTAC-IP=20
Sprint/Nextel
www.sprint.net=20
liban.mohamed@sprint.com
(W) 678-291-3438 =20
(PCS) 404-441-9701
-----Original Message-----
From: Truman Boyes [mailto:truman@suspicious.org]=20
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:35 PM
To: Mohammed Shahnawaz
Cc: mpls-ops@mplsrc.com; mpls@uu.net; mpls@lists.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
Hi Mohammed,
PWE3 technology is for creation of pseudowires in MPLS domains. =20
Basically, the PE devices in your MPLS domain will terminate and =20
carry the "circuit" through to another PE where the circuit tail will =20
proceed to a CE device.
QinQ is double 802.1q tagged Ethernet frames.
VPLS is a MPLS technology where you have a multipoint to multipoint =20
communication method for Ethernet technologies. It basically creates =20
a large virtual lan switch across a MPLS network.
How are these items related? Well, they all use MPLS, and they all =20
relate to layer 2 transport. Sometimes on PWE3 and VPLS networks you =20
wish to carry QinQ ...
best regards,
Truman
On 3/09/2007, at 1:01 AM, Mohammed Shahnawaz wrote:
>
> From: Mohammed Shahnawaz [mailto:mshahnawaz@huawei.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:23 AM
> To: 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'
> Subject: PWE3
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology in a simple =20
> way? Also, how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
>
> Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network using PWE3 tech?
>
>
>
> Kindly someone explain.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Shahnawaz
>
>
>
>
-------
The MPLS-OPS Mailing List
Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.mplsrc.com/mplsops.shtml
Archive: http://www.mplsrc.com/mpls-ops_archive.shtml
_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Sep 04 08:33:30 2007
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Subject: [mpls] Re: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
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Hi Mohammed,
PWE3 technology is for creation of pseudowires in MPLS domains.
Basically, the PE devices in your MPLS domain will terminate and
carry the "circuit" through to another PE where the circuit tail will
proceed to a CE device.
QinQ is double 802.1q tagged Ethernet frames.
VPLS is a MPLS technology where you have a multipoint to multipoint
communication method for Ethernet technologies. It basically creates
a large virtual lan switch across a MPLS network.
How are these items related? Well, they all use MPLS, and they all
relate to layer 2 transport. Sometimes on PWE3 and VPLS networks you
wish to carry QinQ ...
best regards,
Truman
On 3/09/2007, at 1:01 AM, Mohammed Shahnawaz wrote:
>
> From: Mohammed Shahnawaz [mailto:mshahnawaz@huawei.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:23 AM
> To: 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'
> Subject: PWE3
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology in a simple
> way? Also, how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
>
> Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network using PWE3 tech?
>
>
>
> Kindly someone explain.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Shahnawaz
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
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From: Truman Boyes
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 14:39:36 +1200
To: "Mohamed, Liban [NTK]"
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Cc: mpls@lists.ietf.org, mpls@uu.net,
Mohammed Shahnawaz , mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: [mpls] Re: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
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Hi Mohamed,
I should have been more specific; I specified MPLS because the
original question was around how these technologies related to MPLS.
Thanks,
Truman
On 3/09/2007, at 12:20 PM, Mohamed, Liban [NTK] wrote:
>
> Truman,
>
> PWE3 is not MPLS specific technology, PWE3 encapsulation uses IP
> (both version), L2TP, and MPLS. It basically emulates L2, QinQ, and
> VPLS requires MPLS, where PWE3 works with IP backbone using L2TP.
> Yes it is possible to carry the TDM E1 with PWE3, this is great
> technology, it allows SP's to offer legacy technology such us Frame-
> Relay/ATM with the existing IP backbone, so PWE3 will emulate
> Ethernet/FR-RELAY/ATM where you can assign VC ID and build a
> tunnel, We use L2TPv3
>
> Mohamed,
>
> Let me know if you need more info, unicast me and I will be happy
> to provide you more info
>
> Thanks,
>
> Liban Mohamed
> NTAC-IP
> Sprint/Nextel
> www.sprint.net
> liban.mohamed@sprint.com
> (W) 678-291-3438
> (PCS) 404-441-9701
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Truman Boyes [mailto:truman@suspicious.org]
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:35 PM
> To: Mohammed Shahnawaz
> Cc: mpls-ops@mplsrc.com; mpls@uu.net; mpls@lists.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
>
> Hi Mohammed,
>
> PWE3 technology is for creation of pseudowires in MPLS domains.
> Basically, the PE devices in your MPLS domain will terminate and
> carry the "circuit" through to another PE where the circuit tail will
> proceed to a CE device.
>
> QinQ is double 802.1q tagged Ethernet frames.
>
> VPLS is a MPLS technology where you have a multipoint to multipoint
> communication method for Ethernet technologies. It basically creates
> a large virtual lan switch across a MPLS network.
>
> How are these items related? Well, they all use MPLS, and they all
> relate to layer 2 transport. Sometimes on PWE3 and VPLS networks you
> wish to carry QinQ ...
>
> best regards,
> Truman
>
>
>
> On 3/09/2007, at 1:01 AM, Mohammed Shahnawaz wrote:
>
>>
>> From: Mohammed Shahnawaz [mailto:mshahnawaz@huawei.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:23 AM
>> To: 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'
>> Subject: PWE3
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology in a simple
>> way? Also, how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
>>
>> Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network using PWE3 tech?
>>
>>
>>
>> Kindly someone explain.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Shahnawaz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -------
> The MPLS-OPS Mailing List
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.mplsrc.com/mplsops.shtml
> Archive: http://www.mplsrc.com/mpls-ops_archive.shtml
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:34:49 +1200
To: Mohammed Shahnawaz
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Subject: [mpls] Re: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
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Hi Mohammed,
PWE3 technology is for creation of pseudowires in MPLS domains.
Basically, the PE devices in your MPLS domain will terminate and
carry the "circuit" through to another PE where the circuit tail will
proceed to a CE device.
QinQ is double 802.1q tagged Ethernet frames.
VPLS is a MPLS technology where you have a multipoint to multipoint
communication method for Ethernet technologies. It basically creates
a large virtual lan switch across a MPLS network.
How are these items related? Well, they all use MPLS, and they all
relate to layer 2 transport. Sometimes on PWE3 and VPLS networks you
wish to carry QinQ ...
best regards,
Truman
On 3/09/2007, at 1:01 AM, Mohammed Shahnawaz wrote:
>
> From: Mohammed Shahnawaz [mailto:mshahnawaz@huawei.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:23 AM
> To: 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'
> Subject: PWE3
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology in a simple
> way? Also, how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
>
> Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network using PWE3 tech?
>
>
>
> Kindly someone explain.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Shahnawaz
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Sep 04 08:33:30 2007
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From: Truman Boyes
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 14:39:36 +1200
To: "Mohamed, Liban [NTK]"
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Cc: mpls@lists.ietf.org, mpls@uu.net,
Mohammed Shahnawaz , mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: [mpls] Re: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
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Hi Mohamed,
I should have been more specific; I specified MPLS because the
original question was around how these technologies related to MPLS.
Thanks,
Truman
On 3/09/2007, at 12:20 PM, Mohamed, Liban [NTK] wrote:
>
> Truman,
>
> PWE3 is not MPLS specific technology, PWE3 encapsulation uses IP
> (both version), L2TP, and MPLS. It basically emulates L2, QinQ, and
> VPLS requires MPLS, where PWE3 works with IP backbone using L2TP.
> Yes it is possible to carry the TDM E1 with PWE3, this is great
> technology, it allows SP's to offer legacy technology such us Frame-
> Relay/ATM with the existing IP backbone, so PWE3 will emulate
> Ethernet/FR-RELAY/ATM where you can assign VC ID and build a
> tunnel, We use L2TPv3
>
> Mohamed,
>
> Let me know if you need more info, unicast me and I will be happy
> to provide you more info
>
> Thanks,
>
> Liban Mohamed
> NTAC-IP
> Sprint/Nextel
> www.sprint.net
> liban.mohamed@sprint.com
> (W) 678-291-3438
> (PCS) 404-441-9701
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Truman Boyes [mailto:truman@suspicious.org]
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:35 PM
> To: Mohammed Shahnawaz
> Cc: mpls-ops@mplsrc.com; mpls@uu.net; mpls@lists.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
>
> Hi Mohammed,
>
> PWE3 technology is for creation of pseudowires in MPLS domains.
> Basically, the PE devices in your MPLS domain will terminate and
> carry the "circuit" through to another PE where the circuit tail will
> proceed to a CE device.
>
> QinQ is double 802.1q tagged Ethernet frames.
>
> VPLS is a MPLS technology where you have a multipoint to multipoint
> communication method for Ethernet technologies. It basically creates
> a large virtual lan switch across a MPLS network.
>
> How are these items related? Well, they all use MPLS, and they all
> relate to layer 2 transport. Sometimes on PWE3 and VPLS networks you
> wish to carry QinQ ...
>
> best regards,
> Truman
>
>
>
> On 3/09/2007, at 1:01 AM, Mohammed Shahnawaz wrote:
>
>>
>> From: Mohammed Shahnawaz [mailto:mshahnawaz@huawei.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:23 AM
>> To: 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'
>> Subject: PWE3
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology in a simple
>> way? Also, how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
>>
>> Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network using PWE3 tech?
>>
>>
>>
>> Kindly someone explain.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Shahnawaz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -------
> The MPLS-OPS Mailing List
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.mplsrc.com/mplsops.shtml
> Archive: http://www.mplsrc.com/mpls-ops_archive.shtml
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Sep 04 09:15:39 2007
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From: Phil Bedard
Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:10:05 -0400
To: "Mohamed, Liban [NTK]"
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Cc: mpls@lists.ietf.org, mpls@uu.net, Truman Boyes ,
Mohammed Shahnawaz , mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
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VPLS is a client of an underlying PWE3 pseudowire network, which as
you said can be built using GRE, L2TPv3, or MPLS. VPLS is not
dependent on an IP/MPLS network being in place and there are vendors
that implement fairly decent VPLS solutions (Alcatel for one) that
can be completely run over IP/GRE.
RFC3985 describes VPLS architectures.
RFC4761 and RFC4762 describe the setup of a VPLS network using either
targeted LDP or BGP as the signaling method.
Phil
On Sep 2, 2007, at 8:15 PM, Mohamed, Liban [NTK] wrote:
> Truman,
>
> PWE3 is not MPLS specific technology, PWE3 encapsulation uses IP
> (both version), L2TP, and MPLS. It basically emulates L2, QinQ, and
> VPLS requires MPLS, where PWE3 works with IP backbone using L2TP.
> Yes it is possible to carry the TDM E1 with PWE3, this is great
> technology, it allows SP's to offer legacy technology such us Frame-
> Relay/ATM with the existing IP backbone, so PWE3 will emulate
> Ethernet/FR-RELAY/ATM where you can assign VC ID and build a
> tunnel, We use L2TPv3
>
> Mohamed,
>
> Let me know if you need more info, unicast me and I will be happy
> to provide you more info
>
> Thanks,
>
> Liban Mohamed
> NTAC-IP
> Sprint/Nextel
> www.sprint.net
> liban.mohamed@sprint.com
> (W) 678-291-3438
> (PCS) 404-441-9701
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Truman Boyes [mailto:truman@suspicious.org]
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:35 PM
> To: Mohammed Shahnawaz
> Cc: mpls-ops@mplsrc.com; mpls@uu.net; mpls@lists.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [MPLS-OPS]: FW: PWE3
>
> Hi Mohammed,
>
> PWE3 technology is for creation of pseudowires in MPLS domains.
> Basically, the PE devices in your MPLS domain will terminate and
> carry the "circuit" through to another PE where the circuit tail will
> proceed to a CE device.
>
> QinQ is double 802.1q tagged Ethernet frames.
>
> VPLS is a MPLS technology where you have a multipoint to multipoint
> communication method for Ethernet technologies. It basically creates
> a large virtual lan switch across a MPLS network.
>
> How are these items related? Well, they all use MPLS, and they all
> relate to layer 2 transport. Sometimes on PWE3 and VPLS networks you
> wish to carry QinQ ...
>
> best regards,
> Truman
>
>
>
> On 3/09/2007, at 1:01 AM, Mohammed Shahnawaz wrote:
>
>>
>> From: Mohammed Shahnawaz [mailto:mshahnawaz@huawei.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:23 AM
>> To: 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'
>> Subject: PWE3
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> Can someone please explain to me the PWE3 technology in a simple
>> way? Also, how do PWE3, QinQ & VPLS is interrelated?
>>
>> Is it possible to carry the TDM E1 over IP network using PWE3 tech?
>>
>>
>>
>> Kindly someone explain.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Shahnawaz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -------
> The MPLS-OPS Mailing List
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.mplsrc.com/mplsops.shtml
> Archive: http://www.mplsrc.com/mpls-ops_archive.shtml
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
Phil Bedard
bedard.phil@gmail.com
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Sep 04 13:01:46 2007
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Subject: RE: [mpls] Poll to make draft-yasukawa-mpls-scaling-analysis-04.txt
an MPLS working group document
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:59:39 +0100
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Loa Andersson wrote:
> Working Group,
>=20
> at the meeting in Chicago Adrian presented
>=20
> draft-yasukawa-mpls-scaling-analysis-04.txt
>=20
> At this point we would therefore want to ask the working
> group if there is support to make this a working group document.
As I said at the microphone in Chicago, I agree that this is useful work
and support it becoming a WG document. I have no objection to the name
change.
I also think that it would be valuable to provide a similar analysis of
multicast scaling either within this document or within a companion
document.
Ben
--=20
Ben Niven-Jenkins
Technical Consultant - Network Architecture, BT
=20
E-mail: benjamin.niven-jenkins@bt.com=20
Office: +44 (0)1473 648225
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Subject: [mpls] Re: [Tsvwg] WG last call: draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-mpls-01
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Hi,
This WG has concluded without any objections. We will now request
publication of this document.
Cheers
Magnus
Magnus Westerlund skrev:
> This announces the WG last call on "Explicit Congestion Marking in MPLS"
> with the intended status of Proposed Standard. Due to vacation times the
> WG last call will run for 3 weeks. The WG last call ends the 21st of
> August.
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-mpls-01.txt
>
>
> Magnus Westerlund
>
> IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM/M
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ericsson AB | Phone +46 8 4048287
> Torshamsgatan 23 | Fax +46 8 7575550
> S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
--
Magnus Westerlund
IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM/M
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From: "jephthah shan"
To:
Subject: Low Interest Loan
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 10:23:32 +0000
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A LOW INTEREST LOAN - NO STRINGS ATTACHED!
No hassle at all, completely unsecured. There are no hidden costs or =
fees.=20
Just call the number below. You'll thank me later!
Call Free 1-877-208-5642
24 hours a day, 7 days a week including Sundays and Holidays!
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A LOW INTEREST =
LOAN - NO STRINGS ATTACHED!
No hassle at all, =
completely unsecured. There are no hidden costs or fees. =
Just call the number =
below. You'll thank me later!
Call =
Free 1-877-208-5642
24 hours a day, 7 days =
a week including Sundays and Holidays!