From nea-bounces@ietf.org Sat Mar 04 16:42:05 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FFeVp-0007au-CS; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:42:05 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FFdeR-0008I1-Ct for nea@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 15:46:55 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FFdeP-0005A4-RH for nea@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 15:46:55 -0500 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2006 12:46:54 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,164,1139212800"; d="txt'?scan'208,217"; a="1781944203:sNHT80330548" Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k24KkqGv006272 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:46:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from xmb-rtp-205.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.59]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:46:52 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C63FCC.C412A1E9" Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:46:51 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Updated problem statement I-D Thread-Index: AcY/zMO5h4OHW3KdStesitCHo6sDbg== From: "Susan Thomson \(sethomso\)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2006 20:46:52.0556 (UTC) FILETIME=[C447DCC0:01C63FCC] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 510197464235b7be9252a74662931ef9 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:42:04 -0500 Subject: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C63FCC.C412A1E9 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C63FCC.C412A1E9" ------_=_NextPart_002_01C63FCC.C412A1E9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have sent the updated problem statement I-D to the IETF secretariat for publication. In the meantime, have attached the document for your review. =20 The I-D has been updated to be consistent with the proposed WG charter and to take into account comments received on the mailing list. (The proposed charter will need to be tweaked to reflect new names for some of the interfaces).=20 =20 Main Changes: --- Terminology changed to that suggested by Mauricio Sanchez in his comments to mailing list --- Emphasized throughout that focus not on new architecture, but interoperability=20 --- Put an explicit stake in the ground that the initial focus is on an EAP/Radius instantiation of an NEA architecture --- Identified the 2 EAP protocols at IF-PT layer as IF-PTT (EAP tunneling method) and IF-PTC (EAP carrier protocol).=20 --- For convenience, mapped NEA terminology with that used in 3 existing architectures: TNC, NAP, NAC --- References added=20 =20 Feedback appreciated, especially where there may be lack of clarity or disagreement that may preclude a successful BoF. Better to air these on the mailing list now so that we can attempt to address them prior to the BoF. =20 Thanks Steve & Susan ------_=_NextPart_002_01C63FCC.C412A1E9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have = sent the=20 updated problem statement I-D to the IETF secretariat for publication. = In the=20 meantime, have attached the document for your = review.
 
The = I-D has been=20 updated to be  consistent with the proposed WG charter and to take = into=20 account  comments received on the mailing list. (The proposed = charter=20 will need to be tweaked to reflect new names for some of the=20 interfaces). 
 
Main=20 Changes:
---=20 Terminology changed to that suggested by Mauricio=20 Sanchez in his comments to mailing = list
--- = Emphasized=20 throughout that focus not on new = architecture, but interoperability
--- = Put an=20 explicit stake in the ground that the initial focus is on an EAP/Radius=20 instantiation of an NEA architecture
--- = Identified the 2=20 EAP protocols at IF-PT layer as IF-PTT (EAP tunneling method) and IF-PTC = (EAP=20 carrier protocol).
--- For convenience, mapped NEA = terminology with=20 that used in 3 existing architectures: TNC, NAP,=20 NAC
--- = References added=20
 
Feedback appreciated, especially where there = may be=20 lack of clarity or disagreement that may preclude a successful BoF. = Better to=20 air these on the mailing list now so that we can attempt to address them = prior=20 to the BoF.
 
Thanks
Steve &=20 Susan
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(helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGGtX-0005Gk-T3; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:41:07 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGGtW-0005Ge-HR for nea@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:41:06 -0500 Received: from fmr21.intel.com ([143.183.121.13] helo=scsfmr001.sc.intel.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGGtT-0004aQ-SV for nea@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:41:06 -0500 Received: from scsfmr101.sc.intel.com (scsfmr101.sc.intel.com [10.3.253.10]) by scsfmr001.sc.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc, v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id k26Ef2O1013557 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:41:02 GMT Received: from fmsmsxvs042.fm.intel.com (fmsmsxvs042.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.128]) by scsfmr101.sc.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc, v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id k26EZRNg029475 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:35:32 GMT Received: from fmsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([132.233.42.148]) by fmsmsxvs042.fm.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2006030606410220957 for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 06:41:02 -0800 Received: from fmsmsx311.amr.corp.intel.com ([132.233.42.214]) by fmsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:41:02 -0800 Received: from hdsmsx401.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.127.2.60]) by fmsmsx311.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:41:02 -0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:40:43 -0500 Message-ID: <5404AEB459F8354F81995E038F3432000292BD7C@hdsmsx401.amr.corp.intel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D Thread-Index: AcY/zMO5h4OHW3KdStesitCHo6sDbgBXnoLg From: "Blumenthal, Uri" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2006 14:41:02.0212 (UTC) FILETIME=[FDAEAC40:01C6412B] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 10.3.253.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9af087f15dbdd4c64ae6bbcdbc5b1d44 X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1019857189==" Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1019857189== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6412B.FBE12960" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6412B.FBE12960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Susan, =20 Great job! =20 =20 I'm especially happy to see the explicit IF-PV protocol there - as IMHO it is _far_ more likely that the Validator will be separated from the Server broker.=20 =20 Regards, Uri. ________________________________ From: Susan Thomson (sethomso) [mailto:sethomso@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 3:47 PM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D =09 =09 I have sent the updated problem statement I-D to the IETF secretariat for publication. In the meantime, have attached the document for your review. =20 The I-D has been updated to be consistent with the proposed WG charter and to take into account comments received on the mailing list. (The proposed charter will need to be tweaked to reflect new names for some of the interfaces).=20 =20 Main Changes: =09 --- Terminology changed to that suggested by Mauricio Sanchez in his comments to mailing list --- Emphasized throughout that focus not on new architecture, but interoperability=20 --- Put an explicit stake in the ground that the initial focus is on an EAP/Radius instantiation of an NEA architecture --- Identified the 2 EAP protocols at IF-PT layer as IF-PTT (EAP tunneling method) and IF-PTC (EAP carrier protocol).=20 --- For convenience, mapped NEA terminology with that used in 3 existing architectures: TNC, NAP, NAC --- References added=20 =20 Feedback appreciated, especially where there may be lack of clarity or disagreement that may preclude a successful BoF. Better to air these on the mailing list now so that we can attempt to address them prior to the BoF. =20 Thanks Steve & Susan ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6412B.FBE12960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Susan,
 
Great=20 job! 
 
I'm=20 especially happy to see the explicit IF-PV protocol there - as IMHO it = is _far_=20 more likely that the Validator will be separated from the = Server=20 broker. 
 
Regards,
Uri.


From: Susan Thomson (sethomso)=20 [mailto:sethomso@cisco.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 = 3:47=20 PM
To: nea@ietf.org
Subject: [Nea] Updated problem = statement I-D

I = have sent the=20 updated problem statement I-D to the IETF secretariat for publication. = In the=20 meantime, have attached the document for your = review.
 
The = I-D has been=20 updated to be  consistent with the proposed WG charter and to = take into=20 account  comments received on the mailing list. = (The proposed=20 charter will need to be tweaked to reflect new names for some of the=20 interfaces). 
 
Main = Changes:
---=20 Terminology changed to that suggested by Mauricio Sanchez in his comments to mailing=20 list
--- = Emphasized=20 throughout that focus not on = new=20 architecture, but interoperability
--- = Put an=20 explicit stake in the ground that the initial focus is on an = EAP/Radius=20 instantiation of an NEA architecture
--- = Identified the=20 2 EAP protocols at IF-PT layer as IF-PTT (EAP tunneling method) and = IF-PTC=20 (EAP carrier protocol).
--- For convenience, mapped NEA = terminology with=20 that used in 3 existing architectures: TNC, NAP,=20 NAC
--- = References=20 added
 
Feedback appreciated, especially where = there may be=20 lack of clarity or disagreement that may preclude a successful BoF. = Better to=20 air these on the mailing list now so that we can attempt to address = them prior=20 to the BoF.
 
Thanks
Steve &=20 = Susan
<= /HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6412B.FBE12960-- --===============1019857189== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --===============1019857189==-- From nea-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 06 11:40:15 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGIkp-0005cF-CF; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:40:15 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGIkn-0005c7-EB for nea@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:40:13 -0500 Received: from fmr17.intel.com ([134.134.136.16] helo=orsfmr002.jf.intel.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGIkm-0000eS-Rj for nea@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:40:13 -0500 Received: from orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (orsfmr101.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.17]) by orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc, v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id k26GeCTQ023835 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:40:12 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc, v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id k26Ge9Wi028718 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:40:11 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2006030608401012206 for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:40:10 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:40:10 -0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:40:07 -0800 Message-ID: <468F3FDA28AA87429AD807992E22D07E08BB0B41@orsmsx408> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D thread-index: AcY/zMO5h4OHW3KdStesitCHo6sDbgBXnoLgAAQcv4A= From: "Khosravi, Hormuzd M" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2006 16:40:10.0553 (UTC) FILETIME=[A26CF290:01C6413C] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 10.7.209.17 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4166dd0e0c668adc975c3d3e0f1bce3b X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1915705887==" Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1915705887== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6413C.A1B233FA" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6413C.A1B233FA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Susan & team, =20 The draft looks very good, great job! Looks like most all the comments on the list have been addressed. =20 I was glad to see the Posture Validation Interface as well, I think this one is important for end-to-end interoperability. =20 See you guys at the IETF meeting, =20 regards Hormuzd =20 =09 ________________________________ From: Susan Thomson (sethomso) [mailto:sethomso@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 3:47 PM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D I have sent the updated problem statement I-D to the IETF secretariat for publication. In the meantime, have attached the document for your review. =20 The I-D has been updated to be consistent with the proposed WG charter and to take into account comments received on the mailing list. (The proposed charter will need to be tweaked to reflect new names for some of the interfaces).=20 =20 Main Changes: --- Terminology changed to that suggested by Mauricio Sanchez in his comments to mailing list --- Emphasized throughout that focus not on new architecture, but interoperability=20 --- Put an explicit stake in the ground that the initial focus is on an EAP/Radius instantiation of an NEA architecture --- Identified the 2 EAP protocols at IF-PT layer as IF-PTT (EAP tunneling method) and IF-PTC (EAP carrier protocol).=20 --- For convenience, mapped NEA terminology with that used in 3 existing architectures: TNC, NAP, NAC --- References added=20 =20 Feedback appreciated, especially where there may be lack of clarity or disagreement that may preclude a successful BoF. Better to air these on the mailing list now so that we can attempt to address them prior to the BoF. =20 Thanks Steve & Susan ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6413C.A1B233FA Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Susan & team,

 

The draft looks very good, great = job!

Looks like most all the comments on = the list have been addressed.

 

I was glad to see the Posture = Validation Interface as well, I think this one is important for end-to-end interoperability.

 

See you guys at the IETF = meeting,

 

regards

Hormuzd

 


From: Susan Thomson (sethomso) [mailto:sethomso@cisco.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 04, = 2006 3:47 PM
To: nea@ietf.org
Subject: [Nea] Updated = problem statement I-D

I have sent the updated problem statement I-D to the = IETF secretariat for publication. In the meantime, have attached the document = for your review.

 

The I-D has been updated to be  consistent with = the proposed WG charter and to take into account  comments received on = the mailing list. (The proposed charter will need to be tweaked to = reflect new names for some of the interfaces). 

 

Main Changes:

--- Terminology changed to that suggested by Mauricio Sanchez in his comments to mailing list

--- Emphasized throughout that focus not on new architecture, but interoperability

--- Put an explicit stake in the ground that the initial focus is on an EAP/Radius instantiation of an NEA = architecture

--- Identified the 2 EAP protocols at IF-PT layer as = IF-PTT (EAP tunneling method) and IF-PTC (EAP carrier protocol). =

--- For convenience, mapped NEA terminology with that used in 3 existing architectures: TNC, NAP, = NAC

--- References added

 

Feedback appreciated, especially where there may be = lack of clarity or disagreement that may preclude a successful BoF. Better to = air these on the mailing list now so that we can attempt to address them prior to = the BoF.

 

Thanks

Steve & Susan

------_=_NextPart_001_01C6413C.A1B233FA-- --===============1915705887== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --===============1915705887==-- From nea-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 07 09:31:50 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGdE6-0008AU-NH; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:31:50 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGdE5-0008AF-1c for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:31:49 -0500 Received: from vulcan.rsasecurity.com ([216.162.240.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGdE3-0004hF-Q9 for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:31:49 -0500 Received: from hyperion.na.rsa.net by vulcan.rsasecurity.com via smtpd (for stiedprmail1.ietf.org [156.154.16.150]) with ESMTP; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:31:47 -0500 Received: from sdtihq24.securid.com (sdtihq24.na.rsa.net [10.100.8.152]) by hyperion.na.rsa.net (MOS 3.7.4b-GA) with ESMTP id ABN30821; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:31:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from rsana-ex-hq1.NA.RSA.NET (rsana-ex-hq1.na.rsa.net [10.100.8.50]) by sdtihq24.securid.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k27EVjkI006805 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:31:45 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:30:47 -0500 Message-ID: <017630AA6DF2DF4EBC1DD4454F8EE29707BA34AC@rsana-ex-hq1.NA.RSA.NET> Thread-Topic: Updated problem statement I-D Thread-Index: AcY/1H4cJ7nJc1vGRhico2z8/lZICACHlc3Q From: "Polansky, Robert" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Subject: [Nea] RE: Updated problem statement I-D X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org I would echo others' statements that this is a good statement of the problem at hand. I know I haven't contributed in the past, but I do have a request for a minor clarification on section 9.5. It says that "it is important from a security perspective" to be able to separate end-point authentication from end-point posture assessment. I understand why you need to be able to separate the architectures from an engineering perspective, but I think the document should be more specific as to the security concerns around why they need to be separable. Is there is risk in overloading one architecture with the other's functionality? Thanks. -Rob Polansky -----Original Message----- From: nea-request@ietf.org [mailto:nea-request@ietf.org]=20 Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 3:42 PM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: Nea Digest, Vol 5, Issue 1 [...] 9.5. Identity authentication of communicating end-points In order for the NEA Server to accept access requests and posture information being reported to by the NEA client, the NEA Server may need to authenticate the NEA client in some manner. Similarly, within some network environments there may be the requirement that the NEA client also authenticate the NEA Server with whom it is communicating. Although the process of evaluating an access request may combine together the notion of authentication and integrity state evaluation (through posture information), it is important from a security perspective and useful from a good engineering practices perspective to be able to separate end-point authentication (including both machine and user authentication) from end-point posture assessment. _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 07 13:58:23 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGhO3-0001Wd-Pt; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 13:58:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGhNm-0001Hl-CJ for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 13:58:06 -0500 Received: from mail.signacert.com ([207.162.214.7]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGhDp-0006EM-Bs for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 13:47:51 -0500 Received: from SCTPHTP42 (unknown [207.162.210.168]) by mail.signacert.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF88518EC459; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Thomas Hardjono" To: "'Polansky, Robert'" , Subject: RE: [Nea] RE: Updated problem statement I-D Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:47 -0800 Organization: SignaCert Message-ID: <006401c64217$a0ea0490$9603a8c0@SCTPHTP42> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <017630AA6DF2DF4EBC1DD4454F8EE29707BA34AC@rsana-ex-hq1.NA.RSA.NET> Thread-Index: AcY/1H4cJ7nJc1vGRhico2z8/lZICACHlc3QAAjAlSA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Cc: thomas@signacert.com X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: THardjono@signacert.com List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Rob, The concept of (i) authentication (user or device) is quite distinct from (ii) measuring/reporting the integrity state ("health") of a device. Each have their respective design and security issues (e.g. when a health report is being sent from the client to the server, what is used to protect it in-transit.). So far the IP networking industry has only seen authentication (i) (eg. in the form of passwords, SecureID tokens, certs/PKI, etc.) We have not really seen an industry-wide adoption of (ii) and hence the NEA BOF. These two distinct concepts are separable, but need not be separated in implementations. (For example, in the context of 802.1X with tunneled EAP methods, some form of authentication mechanism might be used to identify the end-points wishing to open the outer-tunnel, while the client health information is sent inside the inner-tunnel. Only the success of both will lead to a common master-key.) PS. I must confess I don't really understand the last sentence of your question ("risk in overloading one architecture with the other's functionality"). Perhaps you could clarify. cheers, /thomas/ -----Original Message----- From: Polansky, Robert [mailto:rpolansky@rsasecurity.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:31 AM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: [Nea] RE: Updated problem statement I-D I would echo others' statements that this is a good statement of the problem at hand. I know I haven't contributed in the past, but I do have a request for a minor clarification on section 9.5. It says that "it is important from a security perspective" to be able to separate end-point authentication from end-point posture assessment. I understand why you need to be able to separate the architectures from an engineering perspective, but I think the document should be more specific as to the security concerns around why they need to be separable. Is there is risk in overloading one architecture with the other's functionality? Thanks. -Rob Polansky -----Original Message----- From: nea-request@ietf.org [mailto:nea-request@ietf.org] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 3:42 PM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: Nea Digest, Vol 5, Issue 1 [...] 9.5. Identity authentication of communicating end-points In order for the NEA Server to accept access requests and posture information being reported to by the NEA client, the NEA Server may need to authenticate the NEA client in some manner. Similarly, within some network environments there may be the requirement that the NEA client also authenticate the NEA Server with whom it is communicating. Although the process of evaluating an access request may combine together the notion of authentication and integrity state evaluation (through posture information), it is important from a security perspective and useful from a good engineering practices perspective to be able to separate end-point authentication (including both machine and user authentication) from end-point posture assessment. _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 07 14:43:34 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGi5m-0000lK-6y; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:43:34 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGi5k-0000k5-Ge for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:43:32 -0500 Received: from e34.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.152]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGi5k-00008J-2t for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:43:32 -0500 Received: from d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.106]) by e34.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k27JhVG4004943 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 14:43:31 -0500 Received: from d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (d03av03.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.169]) by d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.8) with ESMTP id k27JkKLf178896 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:46:20 -0700 Received: from d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k27JhUQF007287 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:43:30 -0700 Received: from d03nm129.boulder.ibm.com (d03nm129.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.155]) by d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k27JhUsm007284 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:43:30 -0700 Subject: [NEA] Problem Statement Draft - correction/clarification To: nea@ietf.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF85 November 04, 2005 Message-ID: From: Frank Yeh Jr Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:43:22 -0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM129/03/M/IBM(Release 7.0HF124 | January 12, 2006) at 03/07/2006 12:46:09 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ff9c467ad7f19c2a6d058acd7faaec8 X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1981192942==" Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org --===============1981192942== Content-type: multipart/alternative; Boundary="0__=07BBFBB9DFF8D2778f9e8a93df938690918c07BBFBB9DFF8D277" Content-Disposition: inline --0__=07BBFBB9DFF8D2778f9e8a93df938690918c07BBFBB9DFF8D277 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I believe that Figure 1 in section 6 has the IF-PV interface arrow pointing the wrong way_ it doesn't connect anything. |-------------| |----------------| | Posture | <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture | | Collectors | | Validators | | (1 ...N) | | (1 ...N) | |-------------| |----------------| | | | <------IF-PV--------> | | |-------------| |----------------| | Client | <-------IF-PB-------> | Server | | Broker | | Broker | |--------- ---| |----------------| | | | | |-------------| <------IF-PT-------> |----------------| | | | | | Network | |--------| | Network | | Access |----|Network |------------| Access | | Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority | |-------------| |--------| |----------------| NEA CLIENT NEA SERVER Figure 1: NEA Components and Interfaces Section 7 describes the IF-PV as: Posture validator interface (IF-PV): This protocol acts as a carrier for posture attributes between a Server broker and a Posture validator that is not co-located in the NEA server. Shouldn't the figure look like this? |-------------| |----------------| | Posture | <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture | | Collectors | | Validators | | (1 ...N) | | (1 ...N) | |-------------| |----------------| | | ^ | | | | | IF-PV | | | | | v |-------------| |----------------| | Client | <-------IF-PB-------> | Server | | Broker | | Broker | |--------- ---| |----------------| | | | | |-------------| <------IF-PT-------> |----------------| | | | | | Network | |--------| | Network | | Access |----|Network |------------| Access | | Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority | |-------------| |--------| |----------------| NEA CLIENT NEA SERVER Figure 1: NEA Components and Interfaces Thanks, Frank Yeh --0__=07BBFBB9DFF8D2778f9e8a93df938690918c07BBFBB9DFF8D277 Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline

I believe that Figure 1 in section 6 has the IF-PV interface arrow pointing the wrong way_ it doesn't connect anything.


|-------------| |----------------|
| Posture | <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture |
| Collectors | | Validators |
| (1 ...N) | | (1 ...N) |
|-------------| |----------------|
| |
| <------IF-PV-------->
| |
|-------------| |----------------|
| Client | <-------IF-PB-------> | Server |
| Broker | | Broker |
|--------- ---| |----------------|
| |
| |
|-------------| <------IF-PT-------> |----------------|
| | | |
| Network | |--------| | Network |
| Access |----|Network |------------| Access |
| Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority |
|-------------| |--------| |----------------|

NEA CLIENT NEA SERVER
Figure 1: NEA Components and Interfaces

Section 7 describes the IF-PV as:
Posture validator interface (IF-PV): This protocol acts as a
carrier for posture attributes between a Server broker and a
Posture validator that is not co-located in the NEA server.

Shouldn't the figure look like this?


|-------------| |----------------|
| Posture | <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture |
| Collectors | | Validators |
| (1 ...N) | | (1 ...N) |
|-------------| |----------------|
| | ^
| | |
| | IF-PV
| | |
| | v
|-------------| |----------------|
| Client | <-------IF-PB-------> | Server |
| Broker | | Broker |
|--------- ---| |----------------|
| |
| |
|-------------| <------IF-PT-------> |----------------|
| | | |
| Network | |--------| | Network |
| Access |----|Network |------------| Access |
| Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority |
|-------------| |--------| |----------------|

NEA CLIENT NEA SERVER
Figure 1: NEA Components and Interfaces


Thanks,
Frank Yeh --0__=07BBFBB9DFF8D2778f9e8a93df938690918c07BBFBB9DFF8D277-- --===============1981192942== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --===============1981192942==-- From nea-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 07 16:06:05 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGjNd-0002Nl-GK; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:06:05 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGjNb-0002N6-Px for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:06:03 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGjNb-0006Of-7t for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:06:03 -0500 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Mar 2006 13:06:03 -0800 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k27L5j85003791; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:06:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from xmb-rtp-205.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.59]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:06:00 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [NEA] Problem Statement Draft - correction/clarification Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:06:00 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [NEA] Problem Statement Draft - correction/clarification Thread-Index: AcZCH2+hko+KH8cDQtKxsEJKz5HB2QACw12Q From: "Susan Thomson \(sethomso\)" To: "Frank Yeh Jr" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2006 21:06:00.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[EFD940D0:01C6422A] X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b84f8c8fba0e1389e5eb998b64078964 Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0064143060==" Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0064143060== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6422A.EF830AE8" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6422A.EF830AE8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Frank =20 Yes. Either that, or it should be a straight line with no arrows representing an "interface" of interest (this is what I was originally thinking when I drew it). =20 Thanks for pointing this out, and sorry for the confusion. Will take the action to update. =20 Susan ________________________________ From: Frank Yeh Jr [mailto:fyeh@us.ibm.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:43 PM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: [NEA] Problem Statement Draft - correction/clarification =09 =09 I believe that Figure 1 in section 6 has the IF-PV interface arrow pointing the wrong way_ it doesn't connect anything. =09 =09 |-------------| |----------------| | Posture | <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture | | Collectors | | Validators | | (1 ...N) | | (1 ...N) | |-------------| |----------------| | | | <------IF-PV--------> | | |-------------| |----------------| | Client | <-------IF-PB-------> | Server | | Broker | | Broker | |--------- ---| |----------------| | | | | |-------------| <------IF-PT-------> |----------------| | | | | | Network | |--------| | Network | | Access |----|Network |------------| Access | | Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority | |-------------| |--------| |----------------| =09 NEA CLIENT NEA SERVER Figure 1: NEA Components and Interfaces =09 Section 7 describes the IF-PV as: Posture validator interface (IF-PV): This protocol acts as a carrier for posture attributes between a Server broker and a Posture validator that is not co-located in the NEA server. =09 Shouldn't the figure look like this? =09 =09 |-------------| |----------------| | Posture | <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture | | Collectors | | Validators | | (1 ...N) | | (1 ...N) | |-------------| |----------------| | | ^ | | | | | IF-PV | | | | | v |-------------| |----------------| | Client | <-------IF-PB-------> | Server | | Broker | | Broker | |--------- ---| |----------------| | | | | |-------------| <------IF-PT-------> |----------------| | | | | | Network | |--------| | Network | | Access |----|Network |------------| Access | | Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority | |-------------| |--------| |----------------| =09 NEA CLIENT NEA SERVER Figure 1: NEA Components and Interfaces =09 =09 Thanks, Frank Yeh ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6422A.EF830AE8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Frank
 
Yes. Either that, or it should be a straight = line with=20 no arrows representing an "interface" of interest (this is what I was = originally=20 thinking when I drew it).
 
Thanks for pointing this out, and sorry for = the=20 confusion. Will take the action to update.
 
Susan


From: Frank Yeh Jr = [mailto:fyeh@us.ibm.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:43 PM
To:=20 nea@ietf.org
Subject: [NEA] Problem Statement Draft -=20 correction/clarification

I believe that Figure 1 in section 6 has = the IF-PV=20 interface arrow pointing the wrong way_ it doesn't connect=20 anything.


|-------------| = |----------------|
| Posture |=20 <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture |
|=20 Collectors | | Validators |
| (1 = ...N) | |=20 (1 ...N) |
|-------------|=20 |----------------|
| = |
| <------IF-PV-------->
| |
|-------------|=20 |----------------|
| Client |=20 <-------IF-PB-------> | Server |
|=20 Broker | | Broker |
|--------- = ---|=20 |----------------|
| = |
| |
|-------------|=20 <------IF-PT-------> |----------------|
| | | |
| = Network |=20 |--------| | Network |
| Access=20 |----|Network |------------| Access |
|=20 Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority |
|-------------| |--------|=20 |----------------|

NEA CLIENT = NEA=20 SERVER
Figure 1: NEA Components = and=20 Interfaces

Section 7 = describes the=20 IF-PV as:
Posture validator = interface=20 (IF-PV): This protocol acts as a
carrier=20 for posture attributes between a Server broker and a
Posture validator that is not co-located in the = NEA=20 server.

Shouldn't the figure = look like=20 this?


|-------------|=20 |----------------|
| Posture |=20 <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture |
|=20 Collectors | | Validators |
| (1 = ...N) | |=20 (1 ...N) |
|-------------|=20 |----------------|
| | = ^
| | |
| |=20 IF-PV
| | |
| | v
|-------------|=20 |----------------|
| Client |=20 <-------IF-PB-------> | Server |
|=20 Broker | | Broker |
|--------- = ---|=20 |----------------|
| = |
| |
|-------------|=20 <------IF-PT-------> |----------------|
| | | |
| = Network |=20 |--------| | Network |
| Access=20 |----|Network |------------| Access |
|=20 Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority |
|-------------| |--------|=20 |----------------|

NEA CLIENT = NEA=20 SERVER
Figure 1: NEA Components = and=20 Interfaces


Thanks,
Frank Yeh

------_=_NextPart_001_01C6422A.EF830AE8-- --===============0064143060== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --===============0064143060==-- From nea-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 07 18:56:05 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGm28-0001Ds-Ok; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:56:04 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGm27-0001Dn-Ey for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:56:03 -0500 Received: from vulcan.rsasecurity.com ([216.162.240.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGm27-00039x-48 for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:56:03 -0500 Received: from hyperion.na.rsa.net by vulcan.rsasecurity.com via smtpd (for ietf-mx.ietf.org [156.154.16.150]) with ESMTP; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:56:03 -0500 Received: from sdtihq24.securid.com (sdtihq24.na.rsa.net [10.100.8.152]) by hyperion.na.rsa.net (MOS 3.7.4b-GA) with ESMTP id ABN59666; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:56:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from rsana-ex-hq1.NA.RSA.NET (rsana-ex-hq1.na.rsa.net [10.100.8.50]) by sdtihq24.securid.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k27NtvkI002257; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:55:57 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] RE: Updated problem statement I-D Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:55:53 -0500 Message-ID: <017630AA6DF2DF4EBC1DD4454F8EE29707BA3949@rsana-ex-hq1.NA.RSA.NET> Thread-Topic: [Nea] RE: Updated problem statement I-D Thread-Index: AcY/1H4cJ7nJc1vGRhico2z8/lZICACHlc3QAAjAlSAACx788A== From: "Polansky, Robert" To: , X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 Cc: thomas@SignaCert.com X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Thomas, I was really trying to dig more deeply into the "security" reasons for making the two concepts separable. Your comment about protecting the data in transit is one example. I was hoping for one or two specific examples of the security reasons for separability to be in the draft instead of having the reader infer the security issues. Thanks. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Hardjono [mailto:THardjono@SignaCert.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 12:48 PM To: Polansky, Robert; nea@ietf.org Cc: thomas@SignaCert.com Subject: RE: [Nea] RE: Updated problem statement I-D Rob, The concept of (i) authentication (user or device) is quite distinct from (ii) measuring/reporting the integrity state ("health") of a device. Each have their respective design and security issues (e.g. when a health report is being sent from the client to the server, what is used to protect it in-transit.). So far the IP networking industry has only seen authentication (i) (eg. in the form of passwords, SecureID tokens, certs/PKI, etc.) We have not really seen an industry-wide adoption of (ii) and hence the NEA BOF. These two distinct concepts are separable, but need not be separated in implementations. (For example, in the context of 802.1X with tunneled EAP methods, some form of authentication mechanism might be used to identify the end-points wishing to open the outer-tunnel, while the client health information is sent inside the inner-tunnel. Only the success of both will lead to a common master-key.) PS. I must confess I don't really understand the last sentence of your question ("risk in overloading one architecture with the other's functionality"). Perhaps you could clarify. cheers, /thomas/ -----Original Message----- From: Polansky, Robert [mailto:rpolansky@rsasecurity.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:31 AM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: [Nea] RE: Updated problem statement I-D I would echo others' statements that this is a good statement of the problem at hand. I know I haven't contributed in the past, but I do have a request for a minor clarification on section 9.5. It says that "it is important from a security perspective" to be able to separate end-point authentication from end-point posture assessment. I understand why you need to be able to separate the architectures from an engineering perspective, but I think the document should be more specific as to the security concerns around why they need to be separable. Is there is risk in overloading one architecture with the other's functionality? Thanks. -Rob Polansky -----Original Message----- From: nea-request@ietf.org [mailto:nea-request@ietf.org] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 3:42 PM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: Nea Digest, Vol 5, Issue 1 [...] 9.5. Identity authentication of communicating end-points In order for the NEA Server to accept access requests and posture information being reported to by the NEA client, the NEA Server may need to authenticate the NEA client in some manner. Similarly, within some network environments there may be the requirement that the NEA client also authenticate the NEA Server with whom it is communicating. Although the process of evaluating an access request may combine together the notion of authentication and integrity state evaluation (through posture information), it is important from a security perspective and useful from a good engineering practices perspective to be able to separate end-point authentication (including both machine and user authentication) from end-point posture assessment. _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 07 19:16:21 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGmLl-00039Q-DN; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:16:21 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGmLk-000395-AW for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:16:20 -0500 Received: from fmr19.intel.com ([134.134.136.18] helo=orsfmr004.jf.intel.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGmLj-0004Bq-I9 for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:16:20 -0500 Received: from orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (orsfmr100.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.16]) by orsfmr004.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id k28003OL031698; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:00:03 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id k27Nxb7a029887; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:00:02 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2006030716000213644 ; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:00:02 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:00:02 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [NEA] Problem Statement Draft - correction/clarification Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:00:01 -0800 Message-ID: <468F3FDA28AA87429AD807992E22D07E08C355D1@orsmsx408> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [NEA] Problem Statement Draft - correction/clarification Thread-Index: AcZCH4KV/M132P1KRqSfjgB9ejGhbgAGLN9Q From: "Khosravi, Hormuzd M" To: "Frank Yeh Jr" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2006 00:00:02.0611 (UTC) FILETIME=[3FBB2830:01C64243] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 10.7.209.16 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d437399464e10b52abe9a34ed7e712d0 Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0786626066==" Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0786626066== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C64243.3F15238F" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C64243.3F15238F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I noticed the same thing but assumed it was intentional. Its difficult to express figures in text format sometimes. =20 I think it would be useful to add some more detailed figures in that section in the future. I'll be happy to help out if needed =20 regards Hormuzd =20 ________________________________ From: Frank Yeh Jr [mailto:fyeh@us.ibm.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 11:43 AM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: [NEA] Problem Statement Draft - correction/clarification =20 I believe that Figure 1 in section 6 has the IF-PV interface arrow pointing the wrong way_ it doesn't connect anything. |-------------| |----------------| | Posture | <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture | | Collectors | | Validators | | (1 ...N) | | (1 ...N) | |-------------| |----------------| | | | <------IF-PV--------> | | |-------------| |----------------| | Client | <-------IF-PB-------> | Server | | Broker | | Broker | |--------- ---| |----------------| | | | | |-------------| <------IF-PT-------> |----------------| | | | | | Network | |--------| | Network | | Access |----|Network |------------| Access | | Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority | |-------------| |--------| |----------------| NEA CLIENT NEA SERVER Figure 1: NEA Components and Interfaces Section 7 describes the IF-PV as: Posture validator interface (IF-PV): This protocol acts as a carrier for posture attributes between a Server broker and a Posture validator that is not co-located in the NEA server. Shouldn't the figure look like this? |-------------| |----------------| | Posture | <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture | | Collectors | | Validators | | (1 ...N) | | (1 ...N) | |-------------| |----------------| | | ^ | | | | | IF-PV | | | | | v |-------------| |----------------| | Client | <-------IF-PB-------> | Server | | Broker | | Broker | |--------- ---| |----------------| | | | | |-------------| <------IF-PT-------> |----------------| | | | | | Network | |--------| | Network | | Access |----|Network |------------| Access | | Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority | |-------------| |--------| |----------------| NEA CLIENT NEA SERVER Figure 1: NEA Components and Interfaces Thanks, Frank Yeh ------_=_NextPart_001_01C64243.3F15238F Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, I noticed the same thing but = assumed it was intentional.

Its difficult to express figures in = text format sometimes.

 

I think it would be useful to add = some more detailed figures in that section in the future.

I’ll be happy to help out if = needed

 

regards

Hormuzd

 


From: Frank = Yeh Jr [mailto:fyeh@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, = 2006 11:43 AM
To: nea@ietf.org
Subject: [NEA] Problem = Statement Draft - correction/clarification

 

I believe that Figure 1 in section 6 has the IF-PV = interface arrow pointing the wrong way_ it doesn't connect = anything.


|-------------| |----------------|
| = Posture | <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture |
| = Collectors | | Validators |
| = (1 ...N) | | (1 ...N) |
|-------------| |----------------|
| = |
| <------IF-PV-------->
| = |
|-------------| |----------------|
| = Client | <-------IF-PB-------> | Server |
| = Broker | | Broker |
|--------- ---| |----------------|
| = |
| = |
|-------------| <------IF-PT-------> |----------------|
| | = | |
| = Network | |--------| | Network |
| = Access |----|Network |------------| Access |
| = Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority |
|-------------| |--------| |----------------|

NEA = CLIENT NEA SERVER
Figure 1: NEA Components and Interfaces

Section 7 describes the IF-PV as:
Posture validator interface (IF-PV): This protocol acts as a
carrier for posture attributes between a Server broker and a
Posture validator that is not co-located in the NEA server.

Shouldn't the figure look like this?


|-------------| |----------------|
| = Posture | <-------IF-PA-------> | Posture |
| = Collectors | | Validators |
| = (1 ...N) | | (1 ...N) |
|-------------| |----------------|
| | = ^
| | = |
| | = IF-PV
| | = |
| | = v
|-------------| |----------------|
| = Client | <-------IF-PB-------> | Server |
| = Broker | | Broker |
|--------- ---| |----------------|
| = |
| = |
|-------------| <------IF-PT-------> |----------------|
| | = | |
| = Network | |--------| | Network |
| = Access |----|Network |------------| Access |
| = Requestor | |Enforcer| <-IF-NAE-> | Authority |
|-------------| |--------| |----------------|

NEA = CLIENT NEA SERVER
Figure 1: NEA Components and Interfaces


Thanks,
Frank Yeh

------_=_NextPart_001_01C64243.3F15238F-- --===============0786626066== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --===============0786626066==-- From nea-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 07 19:46:16 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGmoi-0006nN-Au; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:46:16 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGmog-0006n8-MC for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:46:14 -0500 Received: from mail.signacert.com ([207.162.214.7]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGmog-00057b-60 for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:46:14 -0500 Received: from SCTPHTP42 (unknown [207.162.210.168]) by mail.signacert.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEBA118EC466; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:46:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Thomas Hardjono" To: "'Polansky, Robert'" , Subject: RE: [Nea] RE: Updated problem statement I-D Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:46:11 -0800 Organization: SignaCert Message-ID: <000601c64249$b2b107f0$9603a8c0@SCTPHTP42> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcY/1H4cJ7nJc1vGRhico2z8/lZICACHlc3QAAjAlSAACx788AABQlQg In-Reply-To: <017630AA6DF2DF4EBC1DD4454F8EE29707BA3949@rsana-ex-hq1.NA.RSA.NET> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff03b0075c3fc728d7d60a15b4ee1ad2 Cc: thomas@SignaCert.com X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: THardjono@signacert.com List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Thanks Rob. There really is no "security" reasons for separating the two concepts other than they are distinct building blocks that participate in a broader security architecture. Its always wise from a design perspective to identify building blocks, their functions, limitations and interfaces. Having them separate also allows a mix-and-match in different deployment scenarios. Another security consideration (that I did not place in the draft due to time constraints) is the need for end-point authentication to occur first before posture assessment. This is in order to prevent against DOS attacks that waste cycles of its target (posture collector) in doing repeated checks. /thomas/ -----Original Message----- From: Polansky, Robert [mailto:rpolansky@rsasecurity.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 3:56 PM To: THardjono@SignaCert.com; nea@ietf.org Cc: thomas@SignaCert.com Subject: RE: [Nea] RE: Updated problem statement I-D Thomas, I was really trying to dig more deeply into the "security" reasons for making the two concepts separable. Your comment about protecting the data in transit is one example. I was hoping for one or two specific examples of the security reasons for separability to be in the draft instead of having the reader infer the security issues. Thanks. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Hardjono [mailto:THardjono@SignaCert.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 12:48 PM To: Polansky, Robert; nea@ietf.org Cc: thomas@SignaCert.com Subject: RE: [Nea] RE: Updated problem statement I-D Rob, The concept of (i) authentication (user or device) is quite distinct from (ii) measuring/reporting the integrity state ("health") of a device. Each have their respective design and security issues (e.g. when a health report is being sent from the client to the server, what is used to protect it in-transit.). So far the IP networking industry has only seen authentication (i) (eg. in the form of passwords, SecureID tokens, certs/PKI, etc.) We have not really seen an industry-wide adoption of (ii) and hence the NEA BOF. These two distinct concepts are separable, but need not be separated in implementations. (For example, in the context of 802.1X with tunneled EAP methods, some form of authentication mechanism might be used to identify the end-points wishing to open the outer-tunnel, while the client health information is sent inside the inner-tunnel. Only the success of both will lead to a common master-key.) PS. I must confess I don't really understand the last sentence of your question ("risk in overloading one architecture with the other's functionality"). Perhaps you could clarify. cheers, /thomas/ -----Original Message----- From: Polansky, Robert [mailto:rpolansky@rsasecurity.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:31 AM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: [Nea] RE: Updated problem statement I-D I would echo others' statements that this is a good statement of the problem at hand. I know I haven't contributed in the past, but I do have a request for a minor clarification on section 9.5. It says that "it is important from a security perspective" to be able to separate end-point authentication from end-point posture assessment. I understand why you need to be able to separate the architectures from an engineering perspective, but I think the document should be more specific as to the security concerns around why they need to be separable. Is there is risk in overloading one architecture with the other's functionality? Thanks. -Rob Polansky -----Original Message----- From: nea-request@ietf.org [mailto:nea-request@ietf.org] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 3:42 PM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: Nea Digest, Vol 5, Issue 1 [...] 9.5. Identity authentication of communicating end-points In order for the NEA Server to accept access requests and posture information being reported to by the NEA client, the NEA Server may need to authenticate the NEA client in some manner. Similarly, within some network environments there may be the requirement that the NEA client also authenticate the NEA Server with whom it is communicating. Although the process of evaluating an access request may combine together the notion of authentication and integrity state evaluation (through posture information), it is important from a security perspective and useful from a good engineering practices perspective to be able to separate end-point authentication (including both machine and user authentication) from end-point posture assessment. _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 07 20:38:36 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGndL-0003EV-Uy; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:38:35 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGndK-0003EQ-A2 for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:38:34 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGndJ-0007IZ-RS for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:38:34 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com ([64.102.124.13]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Mar 2006 17:38:34 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,173,1139212800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="23179824:sNHT46567664" Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k281cXVU009742 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:38:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from xmb-rtp-205.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.59]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:38:33 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:38:32 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Updated WG charter Thread-Index: AcZCUQINXZqOKJ2XQ6SpOjnA++JnLA== From: "Susan Thomson \(sethomso\)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2006 01:38:33.0006 (UTC) FILETIME=[0299DCE0:01C64251] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: df1883a27a831c1ea5e8cfe5eb3ad38e Subject: [Nea] Updated WG charter X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1721194761==" Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1721194761== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C64251.025C8628" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C64251.025C8628 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Below is the proposed WG charter updated with the new protocol names to be consistent with latest problem statement ID. There are a few editorial changes as well, otherwise it is the same as submitted with the BoF request early in February. =20 If you have further comments on this, please let us know. =20 Thanks Steve & Susan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------ =20 Proposed NEA WG Charter =20 Architectures have been implemented in the industry to assess the software or hardware configuration of endpoint devices for the purposes of monitoring or enforcing compliance of endpoints to an organization's policy for access to the network. These architectures are not fully interoperable since some of the protocols used to implement the architecture are not standards. =20 The first purpose of the proposed working group is to define requirements for the protocols needed to ensure interoperability in an NEA system. The second purpose of the working group is to ensure standardization of protocols that meet these requirements. In some cases, these protocols may best be standardized in another working group. Therefore, the proposed working group will work with the area directors to determine the best way to complete this standardization effort (in the proposed working group or in another one). =20 The initial scope of the WG targets an EAP/RADIUS instantiation of a NEA architecture. Other instantiations of NEA architectures may be standardized in the future, but are not part of the initial charter.=20 =20 The initial charter includes the following protocols (as described in draft-thomson-nea-problem-statement-01.txt): =20 1. Posture Broker protocol (IF-PB) 2. Posture Transport Tunnel protocol (IF-PTT) i.e. EAP tunneling method suitable for carrying posture information as well as supporting authentication 3. Posture Transport Carrier protocol (IF-PTC) i.e. EAP over IP carrier protocol 4. RADIUS attributes for network access enforcement (IF-NAE) =20 Other protocols that may be included in the charter at a later date include: * Posture Attribute protocol (IF-PA) * Posture Validation Protocol (IF-PV) =20 Work will be carried out in two phases. In the first phase, the WG will define requirements for each of the protocols identified in 1) - 4) above. When the requirements have been defined, this WG will work with the responsible Area Directors to identify the appropriate WG for meeting these requirements. =20 Milestones: =20 June 2006: * Submit requirements I-D to IETF including=20 --- requirements for IF-PTT (EAP tunneling method)=20 --- requirements for IF-NAE=20 =20 September 2006: * Submit revised requirements I-D to IETF that includes above plus: --- requirements for IF-PB --- requirements for IF-PTC (EAP over IP carrier protocol e.g. EAP over UDP, EAP over TLS) =20 December 2006:=20 * Review ongoing work in IETF (e.g. EMU WG, Radext WG, PANA WG, NEA WG) and work with ADs to identify the WG responsible for accommodating protocol requirements that are not currently being met. =20 Feb 2007: * Submit requirements I-D to IESG for publication as Info RFC * Revise WG charter to accommodate definition of protocols not covered in other WGs e.g. IF-PB * Submit I-D on protocols to be defined in this WG e.g. IF-PB specification ------_=_NextPart_001_01C64251.025C8628 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Below=20 is the proposed WG charter updated with the new protocol names to be = consistent=20 with latest problem statement ID. There are a few editorial changes as = well,=20 otherwise it is the same as submitted with the BoF request early in=20 February.

 

If=20 you have further comments on this, please let us know.

 

Thanks

Steve=20 & Susan

----------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -

 

Proposed NEA WG = Charter

 

Architectures have been = implemented=20 in the industry to assess the software or hardware = configuration of=20 endpoint devices for the purposes of monitoring or enforcing compliance = of=20 endpoints to an organization's policy for access to the network. = These=20 architectures are not fully interoperable since some of the = protocols used=20 to implement the architecture are not standards.

 

The first purpose of the = proposed=20 working group is to define requirements for the protocols needed to = ensure=20 interoperability in an NEA system. The second purpose of the working = group is to=20 ensure standardization of protocols that meet these requirements. In = some cases,=20 these protocols may best be standardized in another working group. = Therefore,=20 the proposed working group will work with the area directors to = determine the=20 best way to complete this standardization effort (in the proposed = working group=20 or in another one).

 

The initial scope of the = WG targets=20 an EAP/RADIUS instantiation of a NEA architecture. Other instantiations = of NEA=20 architectures may be standardized in the future, but are not part of the = initial=20 charter.

 

The initial charter = includes the=20 following protocols (as described in=20 draft-thomson-nea-problem-statement-01.txt):

 

1. Posture = Broker protocol=20 (IF-PB)

2. Posture Transport = Tunnel protocol=20 (IF-PTT) i.e. EAP tunneling method suitable for carrying posture = information as=20 well as supporting authentication

3. Posture Transport = Carrier=20 protocol (IF-PTC) i.e. EAP over IP carrier protocol

4. RADIUS attributes for = network=20 access enforcement (IF-NAE)

 

Other protocols that may = be included=20 in the charter at a later date include:

* = Posture=20 Attribute protocol (IF-PA)

* Posture Validation = Protocol=20 (IF-PV)

 

Work will be carried out = in two=20 phases. In the first phase, the WG will define = requirements for each=20 of the protocols identified in 1) - 4) above. When the = requirements=20 have been defined, this WG will work with the responsible Area = Directors=20 to identify the appropriate WG for meeting these=20 requirements.

 

Milestones:

 

June 2006:

* Submit requirements = I-D to=20 IETF including 

--- requirements for = IF-PTT (EAP=20 tunneling method)

--- requirements for = IF-NAE=20

 

September = 2006:

* Submit revised=20 requirements I-D to IETF that includes above plus:

--- requirements=20 for IF-PB

--- requirements = for IF-PTC=20 (EAP over IP carrier protocol e.g. EAP over UDP, EAP over = TLS)

 

December 2006: =

* Review ongoing work in = IETF (e.g.=20 EMU WG, Radext WG, PANA WG, NEA WG) and work with ADs to identify the WG = responsible for accommodating protocol requirements that are not = currently being=20 met.

 

Feb 2007:

* Submit requirements = I-D to=20 IESG for publication as Info RFC

* Revise WG charter to = accommodate=20 definition of protocols not covered in other WGs e.g. = IF-PB

* Submit I-D = on protocols to be=20 defined in this WG e.g. IF-PB specification

------_=_NextPart_001_01C64251.025C8628-- --===============1721194761== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --===============1721194761==-- From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 08 12:37:12 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FH2b2-0006du-MB; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:37:12 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FH2b2-0006dp-3A for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:37:12 -0500 Received: from palrel13.hp.com ([156.153.255.238]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FH2ay-0001aM-Df for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:37:12 -0500 Received: from cacexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net (cacexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net [16.92.1.67]) by palrel13.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C528836667; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:37:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from cacexc08.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.92.1.35]) by cacexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:37:07 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D - My comments Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:37:06 -0800 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D - My comments Thread-Index: AcY/zMO5h4OHW3KdStesitCHo6sDbgDBue8w From: "Sanchez, Mauricio" To: "Susan Thomson (sethomso)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2006 17:37:07.0191 (UTC) FILETIME=[EBBA0870:01C642D6] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b6e18fadcfab41fa5e7faede753de4c2 Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1506061907==" Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1506061907== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C642D6.EB9325C3" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C642D6.EB9325C3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nice progress. Here's some comments/questions on this version: =20 Section 1 First paragraph: "These architectures are not fully interoperable..." When I read this sentence it first struck me as meaning that a given architecture (e.g. TNC, NAP, NAC) is not interoperable with itself. Moreover, "fully" signals there may be some existing interoperability, which I doubt there is. May want to consider changing to "Components from these architectures cannot be intermixed..."=20 =20 Section 3 Second paragraph: "Remediation instructions or warnings may be sent to the endpoint." Is "remediation" within scope of NEA? Consider defining remediation in terminology section, since remediation means different things to different people. =20 =20 Fifth paragraph: "...,these architectures are still not fully interoperable because..." Same as first comment. =20 Section 4 How are the third and fourth goals different from one another? =20 Last goal: Is assessment without a client within scope of NEA? It's a good goal, but unsure whether we'd be able to make substantive progress on a "clientless" solution? =20 Section 5.2 Second paragraph: Do you mean 802.11i? =20 =20 Table 1: Nice table. It's going to be my cheat-cheat until I learn all 28 terms. =20 Section 6.2.1.2 May there be more the one client broker? =20 =20 Section 6.2.1.3 For the case there are multiple network access requestors, is there one associated client broker. What is the relationship? May want to consider updating figure 1 to show that there may be multiple NAR's (and perhaps client brokers) as has been done with the posture collectors. =20 Section 6.2.3.3 First paragraph: Which architectures don't have posture validators co-located with the NEA server? Moreover, is the NEA server not but a logical concept? If it is, then this statement is misleading since the posture validator will always be part of the logical NEA server. I think what you mean is that the posture validators are some instances not co-located with the NAA and server broker. =20 Third responsibility: Is the posture collector really responsible for taking "remediation" actions? The description for posture collector in 6.2.1.1 does not mention "remediation" as part of its repertoire. =20 Section 6.3.1 Typo on title: Posture Attribute Interface not Posture Attribute interface =20 Section 6.3.3 May want to consider showing an updated Diagram 1 to visually show the relationship of these two new sub-interfaces to the rest of the NEA architecture. Any reason these are not part of the base NEA description? =20 =20 Section 7 Seventh standardization goal: Can you elaborate in which instances IF-PV may not fall within IETF's domain? How are we going to decide this one? If it's not going to fall into IETF (i.e. NEA) why even bother describing it? =20 Cheers, MS =20 =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Susan Thomson (sethomso) [mailto:sethomso@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:47 PM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D =09 =09 I have sent the updated problem statement I-D to the IETF secretariat for publication. In the meantime, have attached the document for your review. =20 The I-D has been updated to be consistent with the proposed WG charter and to take into account comments received on the mailing list. (The proposed charter will need to be tweaked to reflect new names for some of the interfaces).=20 =20 Main Changes: =09 --- Terminology changed to that suggested by Mauricio Sanchez in his comments to mailing list --- Emphasized throughout that focus not on new architecture, but interoperability=20 --- Put an explicit stake in the ground that the initial focus is on an EAP/Radius instantiation of an NEA architecture --- Identified the 2 EAP protocols at IF-PT layer as IF-PTT (EAP tunneling method) and IF-PTC (EAP carrier protocol).=20 --- For convenience, mapped NEA terminology with that used in 3 existing architectures: TNC, NAP, NAC --- References added=20 =20 Feedback appreciated, especially where there may be lack of clarity or disagreement that may preclude a successful BoF. Better to air these on the mailing list now so that we can attempt to address them prior to the BoF. =20 Thanks Steve & Susan ------_=_NextPart_001_01C642D6.EB9325C3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Nice progress.  Here's some = comments/questions on=20 this version:
 
Section 1
First paragraph: "These architectures are not = fully=20 interoperable..."  When I read this sentence it first struck me as = meaning=20 that a given architecture (e.g. TNC, NAP, NAC) is not interoperable with = itself.  Moreover, "fully" signals there may be some existing=20 interoperability, which I doubt there is.   May want to = consider=20 changing to "Components from these architectures cannot be = intermixed..."=20
 
Section 3
Second paragraph: "Remediation instructions or = warnings may=20 be sent to the endpoint."  Is "remediation" within scope of = NEA? =20 Consider defining remediation in terminology section, since remediation = means=20 different things to different people. 
 
Fifth paragraph: "...,these architectures are = still not=20 fully interoperable because..."  Same as first = comment.
 
Section 4
How are the third and fourth goals different = from one=20 another?
 
Last goal:  Is assessment without a client = within=20 scope of NEA?  It's a good goal, but unsure whether we'd be able to = make=20 substantive progress on a "clientless" solution?
 
Section 5.2
Second paragraph: Do you mean 802.11i? =20
 
Table 1: Nice table.  It's going to be my = cheat-cheat=20 until I learn all 28 terms.
 
Section 6.2.1.2
May there be more the one client = broker?  =20
 
Section 6.2.1.3
For the case there are multiple network access = requestors,=20 is there one associated client broker.  What is the = relationship?  May=20 want to consider updating figure 1 to show that there may be multiple = NAR's (and=20 perhaps client brokers) as has been done with the posture=20 collectors.
 
Section 6.2.3.3
First paragraph: Which architectures don't have = posture=20 validators co-located with the NEA server?  Moreover, is the NEA = server not=20 but a logical concept?  If it is, then this statement is misleading = since=20 the posture validator will always be part of the logical NEA = server.  I=20 think what you mean is that the posture validators are some instances = not=20 co-located with the NAA and server broker.
 
Third responsibility: Is the posture collector = really=20 responsible for taking "remediation" actions?  The description for = posture=20 collector in 6.2.1.1 does not mention "remediation" as part of its=20 repertoire.
 
Section 6.3.1
Typo on title: Posture Attribute Interface not = Posture=20 Attribute interface
 
Section 6.3.3
May want to consider showing an updated Diagram = 1=20 to visually show the relationship of these two new = sub-interfaces=20 to the rest of the NEA architecture.  Any reason these are not part = of the=20 base NEA description? 
 
Section 7
Seventh standardization goal:  Can you = elaborate in=20 which instances IF-PV may not fall within IETF's domain?  How are = we going=20 to decide this one?  If it's not going to fall into IETF (i.e. NEA) = why=20 even bother describing it?
 
Cheers,
MS
 
 
 
 


From: Susan Thomson (sethomso)=20 [mailto:sethomso@cisco.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 = 12:47=20 PM
To: nea@ietf.org
Subject: [Nea] Updated problem = statement I-D

I = have sent the=20 updated problem statement I-D to the IETF secretariat for publication. = In the=20 meantime, have attached the document for your = review.
 
The = I-D has been=20 updated to be  consistent with the proposed WG charter and to = take into=20 account  comments received on the mailing list. = (The proposed=20 charter will need to be tweaked to reflect new names for some of the=20 interfaces). 
 
Main = Changes:
---=20 Terminology changed to that suggested by Mauricio Sanchez in his comments to mailing=20 list
--- = Emphasized=20 throughout that focus not on = new=20 architecture, but interoperability
--- = Put an=20 explicit stake in the ground that the initial focus is on an = EAP/Radius=20 instantiation of an NEA architecture
--- = Identified the=20 2 EAP protocols at IF-PT layer as IF-PTT (EAP tunneling method) and = IF-PTC=20 (EAP carrier protocol).
--- For convenience, mapped NEA = terminology with=20 that used in 3 existing architectures: TNC, NAP,=20 NAC
--- = References=20 added
 
Feedback appreciated, especially where = there may be=20 lack of clarity or disagreement that may preclude a successful BoF. = Better to=20 air these on the mailing list now so that we can attempt to address = them prior=20 to the BoF.
 
Thanks
Steve &=20 = Susan
<= /HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C642D6.EB9325C3-- --===============1506061907== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --===============1506061907==-- From nea-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 10 13:31:39 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FHmOp-0000Et-EQ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:31:39 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FHmOo-0000EO-9o for nea@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:31:38 -0500 Received: from borg.juniper.net ([207.17.137.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FHmOn-0007eJ-1y for nea@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:31:38 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.funk.com) ([172.25.68.102]) by borg.juniper.net with ESMTP; 10 Mar 2006 10:31:37 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,181,1139212800"; d="scan'208"; a="535579309:sNHT19052636" Received: by MAIL2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:30:28 -0500 Message-ID: From: Steve Hanna To: nea@ietf.org Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:31:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Subject: [Nea] NEA BOF time change X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Note that the time for the IETF NEA BOF has changed. It's still on Tuesday, March 21. But it has moved from 1-3 PM to 3:20 PM - 5:20 PM CST. This still might change but that's unlikely. Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 13 22:42:32 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJ0Qa-0004p9-Fm; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:42:32 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJ0QZ-0004p1-4A for nea@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:42:31 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJ0QY-0001Lw-IZ for nea@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:42:31 -0500 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Mar 2006 19:42:30 -0800 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k2E3gTw3001183; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:42:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from xmb-rtp-205.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.59]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:42:29 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D - My comments Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:42:27 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D - My comments Thread-Index: AcY/zMO5h4OHW3KdStesitCHo6sDbgDBue8wAQezGyA= From: "Susan Thomson \(sethomso\)" To: "Sanchez, Mauricio" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2006 03:42:29.0403 (UTC) FILETIME=[51847EB0:01C64719] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d2b46e3b2dfbff2088e0b72a54104985 Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org =20 Hi Mauricio Inline ... ________________________________ From: Sanchez, Mauricio [mailto:mauricio.sanchez@hp.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:37 PM To: Susan Thomson (sethomso); nea@ietf.org Cc: Steve Hanna Subject: RE: [Nea] Updated problem statement I-D - My comments Nice progress. Here's some comments/questions on this version: =20 Section 1 First paragraph: "These architectures are not fully interoperable..." When I read this sentence it first struck me as meaning that a given architecture (e.g. TNC, NAP, NAC) is not interoperable with itself. Moreover, "fully" signals there may be some existing interoperability, which I doubt there is. May want to consider changing to "Components from these architectures cannot be intermixed..."=20 [Susan] Yes, will change to something like "components from different architectures are not interoperable because not all required protocols are standards" or some such. The reason for the "fully" is because, to the extent that 802.1x and RADIUS are standards, there is some interoperability today. =20 Section 3 Second paragraph: "Remediation instructions or warnings may be sent to the endpoint." Is "remediation" within scope of NEA? Consider defining remediation in terminology section, since remediation means different things to different people. =20 [Susan] Remediation itself is not part of NEA, but information about posture status and remediations steps (e.g. URL of remediation server to contact) can take place at the PA layer and possibly at PB layer. Remediation steps are typically specific to the application being validated and will be part of PA layer. The PA leyer is not part of initial scope of NEA charter as currently proposed, though. User notifications and warnings may be done at the PB layer based on the overall posture result, and since the PB layer is in scope, so is this. =20 Fifth paragraph: "...,these architectures are still not fully interoperable because..." Same as first comment. Section 4 How are the third and fourth goals different from one another? [Susan]The third says NEA can happen at a L2 or L3 hop. The fourth says it could happen at multiple hops on a path. (If one supports L3 hops, one cannot preclude a deployment scenario where NEA is enabled in multiple places on a path.) =20 Last goal: Is assessment without a client within scope of NEA? It's a good goal, but unsure whether we'd be able to make substantive progress on a "clientless" solution? [Susan] When I included this, I had something specific in mind, but don't recall what it is now. Probably was not thinking clearly, so I'll plan to take it out. =20 Section 5.2 Second paragraph: Do you mean 802.11i? =20 [Susan] Yes. =20 Table 1: Nice table. It's going to be my cheat-cheat until I learn all 28 terms. =20 Section 6.2.1.2 May there be more the one client broker? =20 [Susan] Could be, although from NEA point of view, not sure that it matters given the interface between client broker and Network access requestor is not in scope. =20 Section 6.2.1.3 For the case there are multiple network access requestors, is there one associated client broker. What is the relationship? May want to consider updating figure 1 to show that there may be multiple NAR's (and perhaps client brokers) as has been done with the posture collectors. [Susan] The assumption is one client broker per Network access requestor. Likely to be same client broker for multiple Network access requestors. =20 Section 6.2.3.3 First paragraph: Which architectures don't have posture validators co-located with the NEA server? Moreover, is the NEA server not but a logical concept? If it is, then this statement is misleading since the posture validator will always be part of the logical NEA server. I think what you mean is that the posture validators are some instances not co-located with the NAA and server broker. [Susan] NAC is one example of such an architecture. Agree that rewording is required. =20 Third responsibility: Is the posture collector really responsible for taking "remediation" actions? The description for posture collector in 6.2.1.1 does not mention "remediation" as part of its repertoire. [Susan] An example of "information on remediation actions" (this could be better worded) may be to send the URL of the remediation server to the posture collector. Section 6.2.1.1 does have text about receiving such a thing. =20 Section 6.3.1 Typo on title: Posture Attribute Interface not Posture Attribute interface =20 Section 6.3.3 May want to consider showing an updated Diagram 1 to visually show the relationship of these two new sub-interfaces to the rest of the NEA architecture. Any reason these are not part of the base NEA description? =20 [Susan] Agreed that this should be made explicit. Probably another figure is required, the idea being to have the general picture that does not assume an underlying EAP framework to allow for other possible "instantiations" of the architecture in the future, along with a figure that is more specific to the EAP framework. =20 Section 7 Seventh standardization goal: Can you elaborate in which instances IF-PV may not fall within IETF's domain? How are we going to decide this one? If it's not going to fall into IETF (i.e. NEA) why even bother describing it? [Susan] Depending on what technology is used, it could be OASIS, for example. There is no pre-judgement here. Once we have made progress on the other protocols in the initial charter, we can revisit including this interface in NEA as part of revising the charter scope at the end of the year.=20 [Susan] Thanks for the comments. Assuming the BOF is successful, this doc in its current form will likely die, with those sections deemed useful pulled into a requirements I-D and more detail added sufficient for a requirements spec. Susan =20 Cheers, MS =20 =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 13 22:54:42 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJ0cM-00026i-2H; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:54:42 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJ0cK-00026d-TJ for nea@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:54:40 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJ0cK-0001cE-HW for nea@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:54:40 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com ([64.102.124.13]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Mar 2006 19:54:40 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,188,1139212800"; d="scan'208"; a="23536700:sNHT25958236" Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k2E3sdVU023840; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:54:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from xmb-rtp-205.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.59]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:54:39 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:54:38 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Revised charter (again) Thread-Index: AcZHGwRQTCWsmV1YT9+qpkebNz2cag== From: "Susan Thomson \(sethomso\)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2006 03:54:39.0793 (UTC) FILETIME=[04DD2A10:01C6471B] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3a4bc66230659131057bb68ed51598f8 Cc: jari.arkko@ericsson.com Subject: [Nea] Revised charter (again) X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Below is another version of the charter for your review. Based on a discussion with the Internet ADs last week, we realized that the charter depended too heavily on information in the problem statement I-D. To enable the charter to stand on its own, it has been updated to include more detail on the problem being addressed and provides a 1 or 2-sentence description with each of the protocols. Also, protocol names no longer have the "IF-" prefix. The scope and milestones remain unchanged. Please provide comments before the end of the week, so that it can be updated prior to BoF. Thanks Steve & Susan ----------------------------------------------- Proposed NEA WG Charter Network Endpoint Assessment (NEA) architectures have been implemented in the industry to assess the "posture" of endpoint devices for the purposes of monitoring or enforcing compliance to an organization's policy for access to the network. Posture refers to the hardware or software configuration of an endpoint as it pertains to an organization's security policy. Posture may include knowledge about the types of hardware and software installed and their configurations, e.g. OS name and version, application patch levels, and anti-virus signature file version. On network access, an endpoint with an NEA Client can be queried for posture information which is validated on an NEA Server as part of network access control. While several of these architectures leverage the EAP/RADIUS framework so that both authentication and posture assessment can be part of network access control, components from the different architectures do not interoperate because not all of the required protocols are standards. The first purpose of the proposed working group is to define requirements for those protocols needed to ensure interoperability. The second purpose of the working group is to determine whether existing protocols are sufficient to meet these requirements and, when not, to ensure standardization of protocols or protocol extensions which meet the requirements. In some cases, these protocols or protocol extensions may best be standardized in another working group. Therefore, the proposed working group will work with the area directors to determine the best way to complete this standardization effort (in the proposed working group or in another one). The initial scope of the WG targets an NEA architecture based on the EAP/RADIUS framework. Other instantiations of NEA architectures may be standardized in the future, but are not part of the initial charter.=20 The initial charter includes defining requirements for the following protocols: 1. Posture Broker (PB) protocol: This protocol aggregates posture attributes from one or more Posture Collectors in an NEA client and sends them to the NEA server for assessment by one or more Posture Validators. 2. Posture Transport Tunnel (PTT) protocol: In the EAP framework, this is an EAP tunneling method suitable for tunneling the PB protocol as well as supporting authentication.=20 3. Posture Transport Carrier (PTC) protocol: The EAP framework supports running EAP over multiple carriers. Targeted deployment scenarios for NEA include both L2 and L3 network access scenarios. Existing standards used in NEA include 802.1x for L2 network access. Requirements need to be defined for an EAP over L3 transport for L3 access scenarios. 4. Network access enforcement (NAE) protocol: In an EAP/RADIUS framework, RADIUS is the protocol used between a network enforcement point and an NEA server acting as an authentication and posture validation server. Requirements may identify new attributes needed (if any). Other protocols that may be included in the charter at a later date include: 5. Posture Attribute (PA) protocol: This protocol is used to carry posture attributes between a particular Posture Collector in a NEA client and a particular Posture Validator in a NEA Server. The PA protocol is carried inside the PB protocol. 6. Posture Validation Protocol (PV): The NEA Server may have a distributed implementation such that the Posture Validator is a remote component. The PV protocol forwards posture attributes to a remote Posture Validator and receives the result of the assessment. Work will be carried out in two phases. In the first phase, the WG will define requirements for each of the protocols identified in 1) - 4) above. When the requirements have been defined, this WG will work with the responsible Area Directors to identify the appropriate WG for meeting these requirements. Milestones: June 2006: * Submit requirements I-D to IETF including --- requirements for PTT protocol (EAP tunneling method) --- requirements for NAE protocol (RADIUS extensions) September 2006: * Submit revised requirements I-D to IETF that includes above plus: --- requirements for PB protocol --- requirements for PTC (EAP over IP carrier protocol) December 2006:=20 * Review ongoing work in IETF (e.g. EMU WG, Radext WG, PANA WG, NEA WG) and work with ADs to identify the WG responsible for accommodating protocol requirements that are not currently being met. Feb 2007: * Submit requirements I-D to IESG for publication as Info RFC * Revise WG charter to accommodate definition of protocols not covered in other WGs e.g. PB * Submit I-D on protocols to be defined in this WG e.g. PB specification _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 14 01:38:36 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJ3Ay-0005FF-Al; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:38:36 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJ3Ax-0005EW-7W for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:38:35 -0500 Received: from fmr17.intel.com ([134.134.136.16] helo=orsfmr002.jf.intel.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJ38T-0006O8-74 for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:36:04 -0500 Received: from orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (orsfmr100.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.16]) by orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id k2E6Zw0v024545; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:35:58 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id k2E6ZwOX025322; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:35:58 GMT Received: from orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.56]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2006031322355718739 ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:35:57 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:35:57 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] Revised charter (again) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:35:55 -0800 Message-ID: <468F3FDA28AA87429AD807992E22D07E08D6998D@orsmsx408> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] Revised charter (again) Thread-Index: AcZHGwRQTCWsmV1YT9+qpkebNz2cagAFR6YQ From: "Khosravi, Hormuzd M" To: "Susan Thomson \(sethomso\)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2006 06:35:57.0994 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D8570A0:01C64731] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 10.7.209.16 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 29dc808194f5fb921c09d0040806d6eb Cc: jari.arkko@ericsson.com X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Hi Susan & Steve, One fundamental question that I have on the charter is whether this WG is striving for end-to-end interoperability for NEA or interoperability between specific devices/products in the market place? I have been assuming it's the former but would like to clarify this. If my assumption is correct then I believe it will be difficult to do a good job without atleast defining requirements, end-to-end, i.e. including PV & PA in the requirements definition stage. It would be fine to postpone the protocol section for these interfaces to the 2nd phase of the WG, but atleast we will have thought through these in our requirements and thus get a good sense of the end-to-end picture. Let me know your thoughts? Other comments welcome. Thanks Hormuzd -----Original Message----- From: Susan Thomson (sethomso) [mailto:sethomso@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:55 PM To: nea@ietf.org Cc: jari.arkko@ericsson.com Subject: [Nea] Revised charter (again) Below is another version of the charter for your review. Based on a discussion with the Internet ADs last week, we realized that the charter depended too heavily on information in the problem statement I-D. To enable the charter to stand on its own, it has been updated to include more detail on the problem being addressed and provides a 1 or 2-sentence description with each of the protocols. Also, protocol names no longer have the "IF-" prefix. The scope and milestones remain unchanged. Please provide comments before the end of the week, so that it can be updated prior to BoF. Thanks Steve & Susan ----------------------------------------------- Proposed NEA WG Charter Network Endpoint Assessment (NEA) architectures have been implemented in the industry to assess the "posture" of endpoint devices for the purposes of monitoring or enforcing compliance to an organization's policy for access to the network. Posture refers to the hardware or software configuration of an endpoint as it pertains to an organization's security policy. Posture may include knowledge about the types of hardware and software installed and their configurations, e.g. OS name and version, application patch levels, and anti-virus signature file version. On network access, an endpoint with an NEA Client can be queried for posture information which is validated on an NEA Server as part of network access control. While several of these architectures leverage the EAP/RADIUS framework so that both authentication and posture assessment can be part of network access control, components from the different architectures do not interoperate because not all of the required protocols are standards. The first purpose of the proposed working group is to define requirements for those protocols needed to ensure interoperability. The second purpose of the working group is to determine whether existing protocols are sufficient to meet these requirements and, when not, to ensure standardization of protocols or protocol extensions which meet the requirements. In some cases, these protocols or protocol extensions may best be standardized in another working group. Therefore, the proposed working group will work with the area directors to determine the best way to complete this standardization effort (in the proposed working group or in another one). The initial scope of the WG targets an NEA architecture based on the EAP/RADIUS framework. Other instantiations of NEA architectures may be standardized in the future, but are not part of the initial charter.=20 The initial charter includes defining requirements for the following protocols: 1. Posture Broker (PB) protocol: This protocol aggregates posture attributes from one or more Posture Collectors in an NEA client and sends them to the NEA server for assessment by one or more Posture Validators. 2. Posture Transport Tunnel (PTT) protocol: In the EAP framework, this is an EAP tunneling method suitable for tunneling the PB protocol as well as supporting authentication.=20 3. Posture Transport Carrier (PTC) protocol: The EAP framework supports running EAP over multiple carriers. Targeted deployment scenarios for NEA include both L2 and L3 network access scenarios. Existing standards used in NEA include 802.1x for L2 network access. Requirements need to be defined for an EAP over L3 transport for L3 access scenarios. 4. Network access enforcement (NAE) protocol: In an EAP/RADIUS framework, RADIUS is the protocol used between a network enforcement point and an NEA server acting as an authentication and posture validation server. Requirements may identify new attributes needed (if any). Other protocols that may be included in the charter at a later date include: 5. Posture Attribute (PA) protocol: This protocol is used to carry posture attributes between a particular Posture Collector in a NEA client and a particular Posture Validator in a NEA Server. The PA protocol is carried inside the PB protocol. 6. Posture Validation Protocol (PV): The NEA Server may have a distributed implementation such that the Posture Validator is a remote component. The PV protocol forwards posture attributes to a remote Posture Validator and receives the result of the assessment. Work will be carried out in two phases. In the first phase, the WG will define requirements for each of the protocols identified in 1) - 4) above. When the requirements have been defined, this WG will work with the responsible Area Directors to identify the appropriate WG for meeting these requirements. Milestones: June 2006: * Submit requirements I-D to IETF including --- requirements for PTT protocol (EAP tunneling method) --- requirements for NAE protocol (RADIUS extensions) September 2006: * Submit revised requirements I-D to IETF that includes above plus: --- requirements for PB protocol --- requirements for PTC (EAP over IP carrier protocol) December 2006:=20 * Review ongoing work in IETF (e.g. EMU WG, Radext WG, PANA WG, NEA WG) and work with ADs to identify the WG responsible for accommodating protocol requirements that are not currently being met. Feb 2007: * Submit requirements I-D to IESG for publication as Info RFC * Revise WG charter to accommodate definition of protocols not covered in other WGs e.g. PB * Submit I-D on protocols to be defined in this WG e.g. PB specification _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 16 16:19:29 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJzsX-0004Yw-IB; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:19:29 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJzsV-0004Ya-J5 for nea@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:19:27 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJzsT-0001Hf-Sb for nea@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:19:27 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com ([64.102.124.13]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Mar 2006 16:19:26 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,102,1141621200"; d="scan'208"; a="84302545:sNHT57961364" Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k2GLJPVU004201; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:19:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from xmb-rtp-205.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.59]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:19:25 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] Revised charter (again) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:19:24 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] Revised charter (again) Thread-Index: AcZHGwRQTCWsmV1YT9+qpkebNz2cagAFR6YQAIOVzhA= From: "Susan Thomson \(sethomso\)" To: "Khosravi, Hormuzd M" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2006 21:19:25.0384 (UTC) FILETIME=[4D36C480:01C6493F] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 156eddb66af16eef49a76ae923b15b92 Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Hi Hormuzd Inline ... -----Original Message----- From: Khosravi, Hormuzd M [mailto:hormuzd.m.khosravi@intel.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:36 AM To: Susan Thomson (sethomso); nea@ietf.org Cc: jari.arkko@ericsson.com Subject: RE: [Nea] Revised charter (again) Hi Susan & Steve, One fundamental question that I have on the charter is whether this WG is striving for end-to-end interoperability for NEA or interoperability between specific devices/products in the market place? I have been assuming it's the former but would like to clarify this. [Susan] In general, we are striving for interoperability across all interfaces identified. If my assumption is correct then I believe it will be difficult to do a good job without atleast defining requirements, end-to-end, i.e. including PV & PA in the requirements definition stage. It would be fine to postpone the protocol section for these interfaces to the 2nd phase of the WG, but atleast we will have thought through these in our requirements and thus get a good sense of the end-to-end picture. [Susan] At a minimum, we need to have the role of the components and interfaces clearly defined so that we can drill down on each of the interfaces independently. I don't think that means that we have to work on producing the detailed requirements of all interfaces concurrently.=20 Susan Let me know your thoughts? Other comments welcome. Thanks Hormuzd -----Original Message----- From: Susan Thomson (sethomso) [mailto:sethomso@cisco.com] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:55 PM To: nea@ietf.org Cc: jari.arkko@ericsson.com Subject: [Nea] Revised charter (again) Below is another version of the charter for your review. Based on a discussion with the Internet ADs last week, we realized that the charter depended too heavily on information in the problem statement I-D. To enable the charter to stand on its own, it has been updated to include more detail on the problem being addressed and provides a 1 or 2-sentence description with each of the protocols. Also, protocol names no longer have the "IF-" prefix. The scope and milestones remain unchanged. Please provide comments before the end of the week, so that it can be updated prior to BoF. Thanks Steve & Susan ----------------------------------------------- Proposed NEA WG Charter Network Endpoint Assessment (NEA) architectures have been implemented in the industry to assess the "posture" of endpoint devices for the purposes of monitoring or enforcing compliance to an organization's policy for access to the network. Posture refers to the hardware or software configuration of an endpoint as it pertains to an organization's security policy. Posture may include knowledge about the types of hardware and software installed and their configurations, e.g. OS name and version, application patch levels, and anti-virus signature file version. On network access, an endpoint with an NEA Client can be queried for posture information which is validated on an NEA Server as part of network access control. While several of these architectures leverage the EAP/RADIUS framework so that both authentication and posture assessment can be part of network access control, components from the different architectures do not interoperate because not all of the required protocols are standards. The first purpose of the proposed working group is to define requirements for those protocols needed to ensure interoperability. The second purpose of the working group is to determine whether existing protocols are sufficient to meet these requirements and, when not, to ensure standardization of protocols or protocol extensions which meet the requirements. In some cases, these protocols or protocol extensions may best be standardized in another working group. Therefore, the proposed working group will work with the area directors to determine the best way to complete this standardization effort (in the proposed working group or in another one). The initial scope of the WG targets an NEA architecture based on the EAP/RADIUS framework. Other instantiations of NEA architectures may be standardized in the future, but are not part of the initial charter.=20 The initial charter includes defining requirements for the following protocols: 1. Posture Broker (PB) protocol: This protocol aggregates posture attributes from one or more Posture Collectors in an NEA client and sends them to the NEA server for assessment by one or more Posture Validators. 2. Posture Transport Tunnel (PTT) protocol: In the EAP framework, this is an EAP tunneling method suitable for tunneling the PB protocol as well as supporting authentication.=20 3. Posture Transport Carrier (PTC) protocol: The EAP framework supports running EAP over multiple carriers. Targeted deployment scenarios for NEA include both L2 and L3 network access scenarios. Existing standards used in NEA include 802.1x for L2 network access. Requirements need to be defined for an EAP over L3 transport for L3 access scenarios. 4. Network access enforcement (NAE) protocol: In an EAP/RADIUS framework, RADIUS is the protocol used between a network enforcement point and an NEA server acting as an authentication and posture validation server. Requirements may identify new attributes needed (if any). Other protocols that may be included in the charter at a later date include: 5. Posture Attribute (PA) protocol: This protocol is used to carry posture attributes between a particular Posture Collector in a NEA client and a particular Posture Validator in a NEA Server. The PA protocol is carried inside the PB protocol. 6. Posture Validation Protocol (PV): The NEA Server may have a distributed implementation such that the Posture Validator is a remote component. The PV protocol forwards posture attributes to a remote Posture Validator and receives the result of the assessment. Work will be carried out in two phases. In the first phase, the WG will define requirements for each of the protocols identified in 1) - 4) above. When the requirements have been defined, this WG will work with the responsible Area Directors to identify the appropriate WG for meeting these requirements. Milestones: June 2006: * Submit requirements I-D to IETF including --- requirements for PTT protocol (EAP tunneling method) --- requirements for NAE protocol (RADIUS extensions) September 2006: * Submit revised requirements I-D to IETF that includes above plus: --- requirements for PB protocol --- requirements for PTC (EAP over IP carrier protocol) December 2006:=20 * Review ongoing work in IETF (e.g. EMU WG, Radext WG, PANA WG, NEA WG) and work with ADs to identify the WG responsible for accommodating protocol requirements that are not currently being met. Feb 2007: * Submit requirements I-D to IESG for publication as Info RFC * Revise WG charter to accommodate definition of protocols not covered in other WGs e.g. PB * Submit I-D on protocols to be defined in this WG e.g. PB specification _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 19 09:14:00 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FKyfQ-0001Mm-FB; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:14:00 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FKyfP-0001MM-7Q for nea@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:13:59 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FKyfN-0003oI-QC for nea@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:13:59 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2JEDtHa026591 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:13:55 +0200 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id k2JEDt20026588 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:13:55 +0200 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:13:55 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: nea@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1338/Sun Mar 19 02:04:12 2006 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Subject: [Nea] heads-up on distsec X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I just read the NEA problem statement and it looked rather sensible. What you didn't explain very extensively is your threat model. You can be sure this will come up in the BoF from someone.. You already raise NEA Client self-integrity as an issue in Section 9.3. But is NEA approach good enough here because the first thing a next-generation worm/virus/malware will do is trick the NEA client using one of various techniques, therefore making the real posture undetectable? You may not be aware of the "distsec" effort (the lastest draft rewrite is draft-kaeo-distsec-framework-00.txt), which describes a superset problem. I'd recommend taking a look for ideas how to refine the problem statement, threat model and assumptions. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 19 11:36:50 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL0td-0004Sm-Ua; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:36:49 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL0td-0004Sh-1W for nea@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:36:49 -0500 Received: from mail.signacert.com ([207.162.214.7]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL0tb-000083-HA for nea@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:36:48 -0500 Received: from SCTPHTP42 (c-24-20-132-188.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.20.132.188]) by mail.signacert.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C95BB18EC3FD; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:36:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Thomas Hardjono" To: , Subject: RE: [Nea] heads-up on distsec Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:36:44 -0800 Organization: SignaCert Message-ID: <000301c64b73$4f6e0390$660110ac@SCTPHTP42> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcZLX2EeQPmbhHSNSwylD3VliR0SKQAEe95A X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: "'Hardjono, Thomas'" X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: THardjono@signacert.com List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Pekka, Yes, Section 9.3 is trying to convey the awareness of the problem for future discussion (and perhaps for the requirements document). My personal opinion on this matter is that something trustworthy needs to attest to the goodness (trustworthiness) the NEA Client code/binary. This in-turn requires something that malicious code cannot modify (namely trusted hardware). /thomas/ -----Original Message----- From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi] Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 6:14 AM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: [Nea] heads-up on distsec Hi, I just read the NEA problem statement and it looked rather sensible. What you didn't explain very extensively is your threat model. You can be sure this will come up in the BoF from someone.. You already raise NEA Client self-integrity as an issue in Section 9.3. But is NEA approach good enough here because the first thing a next-generation worm/virus/malware will do is trick the NEA client using one of various techniques, therefore making the real posture undetectable? You may not be aware of the "distsec" effort (the lastest draft rewrite is draft-kaeo-distsec-framework-00.txt), which describes a superset problem. I'd recommend taking a look for ideas how to refine the problem statement, threat model and assumptions. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 19 11:58:38 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL1Ek-0002fT-RV; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:58:38 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL1Ek-0002f1-09 for nea@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:58:38 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL1Ei-00015U-H5 for nea@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:58:37 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by netcore.fi (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2JGwYHa029901; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:58:34 +0200 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id k2JGwYb6029898; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:58:34 +0200 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:58:34 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: Thomas Hardjono Subject: RE: [Nea] heads-up on distsec In-Reply-To: <000301c64b73$4f6e0390$660110ac@SCTPHTP42> Message-ID: References: <000301c64b73$4f6e0390$660110ac@SCTPHTP42> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1338/Sun Mar 19 02:04:12 2006 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on otso.netcore.fi X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: "'Hardjono, Thomas'" , nea@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Hi, On Sun, 19 Mar 2006, Thomas Hardjono wrote: > My personal opinion on this matter is that something trustworthy needs to > attest to the goodness (trustworthiness) the NEA Client code/binary. This > in-turn requires something that malicious code cannot modify (namely trusted > hardware). Is it enough to have trusted NEA client code? The client will collect information from the programs, file systems, and/or the kernel. So, each of those (except maybe the programs themselves) would need to be "trusted". I'm personally a bit skeptical how we could get there, given that kernels will always have bugs, etc. Of course, security mechanisms don't necessarily need to be perfect; getting e.g., 95% assurance might be enough, given that's acceptable for your threat model.. (That was one of the reasons why distsec was refined to also look at minimizing the effect and maximizing the detection of a security breach that's bound to happen sooner or later.) -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 19 20:19:54 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL93p-0000HB-Hn; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:19:53 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL93p-0000H6-1c for nea@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:19:53 -0500 Received: from mga03.intel.com ([143.182.124.21] helo=azsmga101-1.ch.intel.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL93n-0002wd-4f for nea@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:19:52 -0500 Received: from azsmga001.ch.intel.com ([10.2.17.19]) by azsmga101-1.ch.intel.com with ESMTP; 19 Mar 2006 17:19:47 -0800 Received: from fmsmsx331.fm.intel.com (HELO fmsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com) ([132.233.42.156]) by azsmga001.ch.intel.com with ESMTP; 19 Mar 2006 17:19:46 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,109,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="13505740:sNHT128351307" Received: from fmsmsx312.amr.corp.intel.com ([132.233.42.227]) by fmsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:19:46 -0800 Received: from hdsmsx401.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.127.2.60]) by fmsmsx312.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:19:45 -0800 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] heads-up on distsec Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:19:41 -0500 Message-ID: <5404AEB459F8354F81995E038F34320002A6A28F@hdsmsx401.amr.corp.intel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] heads-up on distsec Thread-Index: AcZLdrnVwXVcVih4Q9uf8i1kU7jvZQARWesg From: "Blumenthal, Uri" To: "Pekka Savola" , "Thomas Hardjono" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2006 01:19:45.0719 (UTC) FILETIME=[5FA48470:01C64BBC] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: "Hardjono, Thomas" , nea@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org >On Sun, 19 Mar 2006, Thomas Hardjono wrote: >> My personal opinion on this matter is that something trustworthy needs to >> attest to the goodness (trustworthiness) the NEA Client code/binary. This >> in-turn requires something that malicious code cannot modify (namely trusted >> hardware). > >Is it enough to have trusted NEA client code? The client will collect=20 >information from the programs, file systems, and/or the kernel. So,=20 >each of those (except maybe the programs themselves) would need to be=20 >"trusted". Probably not - but NEA client code can have secure "anchors" - and that would be enough by any standard. >I'm personally a bit skeptical how we could get there, given that=20 >kernels will always have bugs, etc. There are other things. E.g. TPM... >Of course, security mechanisms don't necessarily need to be perfect;=20 >getting e.g., 95% assurance might be enough, given that's acceptable=20 >for your threat model.. There's that too. _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 19 20:35:28 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL9It-0000YS-UZ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:35:27 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL9Is-0000YN-Jt for nea@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:35:26 -0500 Received: from ogo.signacert.com ([207.162.214.7] helo=mail.signacert.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FL9Is-0003bx-Ab for nea@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:35:26 -0500 Received: from SCTPHTP42 (c-24-20-132-188.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.20.132.188]) by mail.signacert.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21CC18EC445; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:35:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Thomas Hardjono" To: "'Pekka Savola'" Subject: RE: [Nea] heads-up on distsec Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:35:22 -0800 Organization: SignaCert Message-ID: <000301c64bbe$8ed597f0$660110ac@SCTPHTP42> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcZLdl8Tu0BpBASWT5CePvepgjOF7QARw8jg X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Cc: "'Hardjono, Thomas'" , nea@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: THardjono@signacert.com List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Understood, Pekka. The BOF/WG would have to decide if these issues (such that mentioned in Section 9.3) and their solution would be in-scope for NEA. I think it is useful for NEA to be aware of the spectrum of issues surrounding (a) end-point trust and integrity, and (b) mechanisms to report (a). This was one of the purposes of Section 9. In this way, NEA can focus on a clear subset of issues out of the entire spectrum. Regards. /thomas/ -----Original Message----- From: Pekka Savola [mailto:pekkas@netcore.fi] Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:59 AM To: Thomas Hardjono Cc: 'Hardjono, Thomas'; nea@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Nea] heads-up on distsec Hi, On Sun, 19 Mar 2006, Thomas Hardjono wrote: > My personal opinion on this matter is that something trustworthy needs > to attest to the goodness (trustworthiness) the NEA Client > code/binary. This in-turn requires something that malicious code > cannot modify (namely trusted hardware). Is it enough to have trusted NEA client code? The client will collect information from the programs, file systems, and/or the kernel. So, each of those (except maybe the programs themselves) would need to be "trusted". I'm personally a bit skeptical how we could get there, given that kernels will always have bugs, etc. Of course, security mechanisms don't necessarily need to be perfect; getting e.g., 95% assurance might be enough, given that's acceptable for your threat model.. (That was one of the reasons why distsec was refined to also look at minimizing the effect and maximizing the detection of a security breach that's bound to happen sooner or later.) -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 11:02:46 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5nK-0004Zk-3E; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:02:46 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5nI-0004UR-AC for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:02:44 -0500 Received: from segue.merit.edu ([198.108.1.41]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5nH-00050G-36 for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:02:44 -0500 Received: from snicker.merit.edu (snicker.merit.edu [198.108.62.156]) by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A03F558282; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:02:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from [130.129.131.50] (DHCP-Wireless-131-50.ietf65.org [130.129.131.50]) by snicker.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBFB6171881; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:02:41 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <53DC085C-BA67-4E7A-8EBB-AE235C1384FE@mtghouse.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: John Vollbrecht Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:02:40 -0500 To: NEA X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Cc: Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org I am wondering if people would like to get together to review the BOF and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are interesting and might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base for a few minutes. - John _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 11:09:02 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5tO-0000j6-Ot; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:09:02 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5tO-0000j1-4J for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:09:02 -0500 Received: from mga03.intel.com ([143.182.124.21] helo=azsmga101-1.ch.intel.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5tM-0005KM-LW for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:09:02 -0500 Received: from azsmga001.ch.intel.com ([10.2.17.19]) by azsmga101-1.ch.intel.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 08:08:25 -0800 Received: from fmsmsx331.fm.intel.com (HELO fmsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com) ([132.233.42.156]) by azsmga001.ch.intel.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 08:08:24 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,119,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="14278972:sNHT21472367" Received: from fmsmsx311.amr.corp.intel.com ([132.233.42.214]) by fmsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:08:09 -0800 Received: from hdsmsx401.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.127.2.60]) by fmsmsx311.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:08:04 -0800 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:08:02 -0500 Message-ID: <5404AEB459F8354F81995E038F34320002AFEF4B@hdsmsx401.amr.corp.intel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Thread-Index: AcZNypAa1H4Gp2G/QWKKvFYlEzkQnQAADRVA From: "Blumenthal, Uri" To: "John Vollbrecht" , "NEA" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 16:08:05.0152 (UTC) FILETIME=[CD681200:01C64DCA] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org I'd like to meet and discuss. Tnx!=20 -----Original Message----- From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 11:03 AM To: NEA Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? I am wondering if people would like to get together to review the BOF =20 and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at =20 IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are interesting and =20 might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I =20 have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I =20 will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base =20 for a few minutes. - John _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 11:12:00 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5wF-0001ij-Vk; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:11:59 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5wE-0001ib-Px for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:11:58 -0500 Received: from borg.juniper.net ([207.17.137.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5wD-0005Re-Hq for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:11:58 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.funk.com) ([172.25.68.102]) by borg.juniper.net with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 08:11:57 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,119,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="538076618:sNHT21235356" Received: by MAIL2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:10:34 -0500 Message-ID: From: Steve Hanna To: John Vollbrecht , NEA Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:11:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been having interesting conversations and thoughts since the BOF. Unfortunately, Susan and I are busy for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How about the afternoon break today? I propose we meet at 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. OK? Thanks, Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:03 AM > To: NEA > Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? > > I am wondering if people would like to get together to review > the BOF > and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at > IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are interesting and > might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I > have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I > will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base > for a few minutes. > > - John > > > _______________________________________________ > Nea mailing list > Nea@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 11:12:21 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5wb-0001mc-4j; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:12:21 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5wZ-0001mX-GK for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:12:19 -0500 Received: from gold.veritas.com ([143.127.12.110]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5wY-0005Sj-18 for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:12:19 -0500 Received: from sxchcon1-int.veritas.com (HELO SVLXCHCON1.enterprise.veritas.com) ([10.137.18.171]) by gold.veritas.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 08:12:17 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,119,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="57585137:sNHT28942848" Received: from SVL1XCHEVSPIN01.enterprise.veritas.com ([166.98.169.10]) by SVLXCHCON1.enterprise.veritas.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:12:16 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:12:15 -0800 Message-ID: <5A58F967CBEBBB4A82DF126CF8A9596A9B6F5E@SVL1XCHCLUPIN01.enterprise.veritas.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? thread-index: AcZNyhp+bfxUB5WVQbqRSlRR4OsyiwAAToYg From: "Paul Sangster" To: "John Vollbrecht" , "NEA" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 16:12:16.0913 (UTC) FILETIME=[6377C010:01C64DCB] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org I fly out this afternoon but could do lunch today.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:03 AM > To: NEA > Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? >=20 > I am wondering if people would like to get together to review=20 > the BOF and any feedback we might have gotten while we are=20 > face to face at IETF. I have gotten some comments that I=20 > think are interesting and might help moving forward, and I=20 > can note them in an email when I have a few minutes, but I am=20 > wondering if people will be around - I will be here till=20 > Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base for a few minutes. >=20 > - John >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Nea mailing list > Nea@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea >=20 _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 11:14:19 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5yV-00029c-G4; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:14:19 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5yU-00029X-0x for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:14:18 -0500 Received: from mga02.intel.com ([134.134.136.20] helo=orsmga101-1.jf.intel.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM5yS-0005fI-G2 for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:14:18 -0500 Received: from orsmga001.jf.intel.com ([10.7.209.18]) by orsmga101-1.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 08:13:07 -0800 Received: from orsmsx331.jf.intel.com (HELO orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com) ([192.168.65.56]) by orsmga001.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 08:13:06 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,119,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="14665959:sNHT489899361" Received: from orsmsx411.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.22.226.47]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:13:04 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:13:02 -0800 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? thread-index: AcZNypAa1H4Gp2G/QWKKvFYlEzkQnQAADRVAAAArPRA= From: "Khosravi, Hormuzd M" To: "John Vollbrecht" , "NEA" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 16:13:04.0231 (UTC) FILETIME=[7FABE770:01C64DCB] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Same here. I'll be around on Thursday Hormuzd -----Original Message----- From: Blumenthal, Uri [mailto:uri.blumenthal@intel.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:08 AM To: John Vollbrecht; NEA Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? I'd like to meet and discuss. Tnx!=20 -----Original Message----- From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 11:03 AM To: NEA Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? I am wondering if people would like to get together to review the BOF =20 and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at =20 IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are interesting and =20 might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I =20 have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I =20 will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base =20 for a few minutes. - John _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 11:52:49 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM6Zl-0003lP-LQ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:52:49 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM6Zj-0003lF-RV for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:52:47 -0500 Received: from borg.juniper.net ([207.17.137.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM6Zi-0007lG-Ir for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:52:47 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.funk.com) ([172.25.68.102]) by borg.juniper.net with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 08:52:46 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,119,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="538084982:sNHT21495456" Received: by MAIL2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:51:23 -0500 Message-ID: From: Steve Hanna To: NEA Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:52:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Subject: [Nea] Definite time and place for chat today X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org I just ran into Mauricio and he asked for a definitive time and place. Unfortunately, it looks like no time will work for everyone. However, I think it's important to have Susan and myself there to report on AD contacts, etc. So we'll go with 4:10 PM today at the IETF message board. Thanks, Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Hanna > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:12 AM > To: 'John Vollbrecht'; NEA > Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? > > Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been having > interesting conversations and thoughts since > the BOF. Unfortunately, Susan and I are busy > for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How about the > afternoon break today? I propose we meet at > 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. OK? > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:03 AM > > To: NEA > > Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? > > > > I am wondering if people would like to get together to review > > the BOF > > and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at > > IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are > interesting and > > might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I > > have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be > around - I > > will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to > touch base > > for a few minutes. > > > > - John > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nea mailing list > > Nea@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > > > _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 11:53:11 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM6a7-0003te-93; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:11 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM6a5-0003sC-V6 for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:09 -0500 Received: from segue.merit.edu ([198.108.1.41]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM6a4-0007nH-Mt for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:09 -0500 Received: from snicker.merit.edu (snicker.merit.edu [198.108.62.156]) by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64EF958282; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [130.129.131.50] (DHCP-Wireless-131-50.ietf65.org [130.129.131.50]) by snicker.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C20171881; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:07 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: John Vollbrecht Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:06 -0500 To: Steve Hanna X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: John Vollbrecht , NEA X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org 4:10 at the message board is fine. I am also free for lunch, and would like to meet with anyone that can't meet there at 4:10. can meet at message board at 11:30 if you want to have lunch. -- John On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Steve Hanna wrote: > Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been having > interesting conversations and thoughts since > the BOF. Unfortunately, Susan and I are busy > for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How about the > afternoon break today? I propose we meet at > 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. OK? > > Thanks, > > Steve > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:03 AM >> To: NEA >> Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? >> >> I am wondering if people would like to get together to review >> the BOF >> and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at >> IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are interesting and >> might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I >> have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I >> will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base >> for a few minutes. >> >> - John >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nea mailing list >> Nea@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea >> > > _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 12:17:57 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM6y4-0007G4-Pm; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:17:56 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM6y2-0007Fz-W1 for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:17:54 -0500 Received: from silver.veritas.com ([143.127.12.111]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM6y1-0000LA-Lw for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:17:54 -0500 Received: from sxchcon2-int.veritas.com (HELO SVLXCHCON2.enterprise.veritas.com) ([10.137.18.172]) by silver.veritas.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 09:17:51 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,119,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="36269217:sNHT23778036" Received: from SVL1XCHEVSPIN01.enterprise.veritas.com ([166.98.169.10]) by SVLXCHCON2.enterprise.veritas.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:17:52 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:17:50 -0800 Message-ID: <5A58F967CBEBBB4A82DF126CF8A9596A9B7009@SVL1XCHCLUPIN01.enterprise.veritas.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? thread-index: AcZN0Rwau5iJIR8HRQ+jIl1W+cAi+gAA1Usg From: "Paul Sangster" To: "John Vollbrecht" , "Steve Hanna" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 17:17:52.0699 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D6108B0:01C64DD4] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Cc: NEA X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Ok, I'll see (at least) you there at 11:30. If others are free please join us!=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:53 AM > To: Steve Hanna > Cc: John Vollbrecht; NEA > Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? >=20 > 4:10 at the message board is fine. I am also free for lunch,=20 > and would like to meet with anyone that can't meet there at=20 > 4:10. can meet at message board at 11:30 if you want to have lunch. >=20 > -- John >=20 >=20 > On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Steve Hanna wrote: >=20 > > Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been having interesting=20 > > conversations and thoughts since the BOF. Unfortunately,=20 > Susan and I=20 > > are busy for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How about the afternoon break=20 > > today? I propose we meet at 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. OK? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Steve > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:03 AM > >> To: NEA > >> Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? > >> > >> I am wondering if people would like to get together to=20 > review the BOF=20 > >> and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at=20 > >> IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are=20 > interesting and=20 > >> might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I=20 > >> have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be=20 > around - I=20 > >> will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to=20 > touch base=20 > >> for a few minutes. > >> > >> - John > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Nea mailing list > >> Nea@ietf.org > >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > >> > > > > >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Nea mailing list > Nea@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea >=20 _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 12:22:26 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM72Q-0003Hc-LD; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:22:26 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM72P-0003FN-S1 for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:22:25 -0500 Received: from mga02.intel.com ([134.134.136.20] helo=orsmga101-1.jf.intel.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM72O-0000Rd-8D for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:22:25 -0500 Received: from orsmga001.jf.intel.com ([10.7.209.18]) by orsmga101-1.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 09:18:26 -0800 Received: from fmsmsx332.fm.intel.com (HELO fmsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com) ([132.233.42.148]) by orsmga001.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 09:18:25 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,119,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="14686830:sNHT33390049" Received: from fmsmsx311.amr.corp.intel.com ([132.233.42.214]) by fmsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:18:08 -0800 Received: from hdsmsx401.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.127.2.60]) by fmsmsx311.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:18:08 -0800 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:18:05 -0500 Message-ID: <5404AEB459F8354F81995E038F34320002AFF07C@hdsmsx401.amr.corp.intel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Thread-Index: AcZN0cu5i2V3vglySKuqpyREWhkNnAAAr3UA From: "Blumenthal, Uri" To: "NEA" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 17:18:08.0481 (UTC) FILETIME=[96C92D10:01C64DD4] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org ACK on both 11:30 and 4:10 today. -----Original Message----- From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 11:53 AM To: Steve Hanna Cc: John Vollbrecht; NEA Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? 4:10 at the message board is fine. I am also free for lunch, and =20 would like to meet with anyone that can't meet there at 4:10. can =20 meet at message board at 11:30 if you want to have lunch. -- John On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Steve Hanna wrote: > Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been having > interesting conversations and thoughts since > the BOF. Unfortunately, Susan and I are busy > for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How about the > afternoon break today? I propose we meet at > 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. OK? > > Thanks, > > Steve > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:03 AM >> To: NEA >> Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? >> >> I am wondering if people would like to get together to review >> the BOF >> and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at >> IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are interesting and >> might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I >> have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I >> will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base >> for a few minutes. >> >> - John >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nea mailing list >> Nea@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea >> > > _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 12:24:19 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM74F-0004OU-HA; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:24:19 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM74D-0004Gv-Kn for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:24:17 -0500 Received: from mail.signacert.org ([207.162.214.7] helo=mail.signacert.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM74B-0000Wg-8w for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:24:17 -0500 Received: from [10.194.192.75] (unknown [66.209.15.234]) by mail.signacert.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3639B18EC46A; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:24:06 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: SnapperMail 2.3.2.01 by Snapperfish To: John Vollbrecht , Steve Hanna Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Message-ID: <4318-SnapperMsgF6E419A5C0473863@[10.194.192.75]> In-Reply-To: References: From: Thomas Hardjono Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 9:22:17 -0800 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Cc: John Vollbrecht , NEA X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: thardjono@signacert.com List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Apologies folks - I'm back on the west coast due to company meetings. /thomas/ ___ ---- Sent from a Treo --- ...... Original Message ....... On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:06 -0500 John Vollbrecht wrote: >4:10 at the message board is fine. I am also free for lunch, and >would like to meet with anyone that can't meet there at 4:10. can >meet at message board at 11:30 if you want to have lunch. > >-- John > > >On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Steve Hanna wrote: > >> Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been having >> interesting conversations and thoughts since >> the BOF. Unfortunately, Susan and I are busy >> for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How about the >> afternoon break today? I propose we meet at >> 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. OK? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Steve >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:03 AM >>> To: NEA >>> Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? >>> >>> I am wondering if people would like to get together to review >>> the BOF >>> and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at >>> IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are interesting and >>> might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I >>> have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I >>> will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base >>> for a few minutes. >>> >>> - John >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nea mailing list >>> Nea@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea >>> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Nea mailing list >Nea@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 12:52:53 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM7Vt-00063e-0s; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:52:53 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM7Vs-00063Z-CD for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:52:52 -0500 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.141]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM7Vs-0001Tm-0B for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:52:52 -0500 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k2MHqmpu000354 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:52:48 -0500 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.8) with ESMTP id k2MHqm08203616 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:52:48 -0500 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2MHqm5s032450 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:52:48 -0500 Received: from d01mlc83.pok.ibm.com (d01mlc83.pok.ibm.com [9.56.228.211]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k2MHqmhY032447; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:52:48 -0500 In-Reply-To: <4318-SnapperMsgF6E419A5C0473863@[10.194.192.75]> To: thardjono@signacert.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.0.2CF1 June 9, 2003 Message-ID: From: Diana J Arroyo Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:52:46 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D01MLC83/01/M/IBM(Release 7.0.1 HF1|March 1, 2006) at 03/22/2006 12:52:47, Serialize complete at 03/22/2006 12:52:47 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 140baa79ca42e6b0e2b4504291346186 Cc: John Vollbrecht , NEA X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0486104773==" Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0486104773== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0062369486257139_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0062369486257139_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I'm back in Austin as well. If someone would be willing to post any notes/summaries from the meetings it would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Diana Arroyo Software Engineer, Corporate Security Strategy 512.838.0088 darroyo@us.ibm.com Thomas Hardjono 03/22/2006 11:22 AM Please respond to thardjono To: John Vollbrecht , Steve Hanna cc: John Vollbrecht , NEA Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Apologies folks - I'm back on the west coast due to company meetings. /thomas/ ___ ---- Sent from a Treo --- ...... Original Message ....... On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:06 -0500 John Vollbrecht wrote: >4:10 at the message board is fine. I am also free for lunch, and >would like to meet with anyone that can't meet there at 4:10. can >meet at message board at 11:30 if you want to have lunch. > >-- John > > >On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Steve Hanna wrote: > >> Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been having >> interesting conversations and thoughts since >> the BOF. Unfortunately, Susan and I are busy >> for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How about the >> afternoon break today? I propose we meet at >> 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. OK? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Steve >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:03 AM >>> To: NEA >>> Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? >>> >>> I am wondering if people would like to get together to review >>> the BOF >>> and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at >>> IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are interesting and >>> might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I >>> have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I >>> will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base >>> for a few minutes. >>> >>> - John >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nea mailing list >>> Nea@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea >>> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Nea mailing list >Nea@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --=_alternative 0062369486257139_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I'm back in Austin as well.  If someone would be willing to post any notes/summaries from the meetings it would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Diana Arroyo
Software Engineer, Corporate Security Strategy
512.838.0088
darroyo@us.ibm.com



Thomas Hardjono <thardjono@signacert.com>

03/22/2006 11:22 AM
Please respond to thardjono

       
        To:        John Vollbrecht <jrv@mtghouse.com>, Steve Hanna <shanna@juniper.net>
        cc:        John Vollbrecht <jrv@mtghouse.com>, NEA <nea@ietf.org>
        Subject:        Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF?



Apologies folks - I'm back on the west coast due to company meetings.

/thomas/
___
---- Sent from a Treo ---

...... Original Message .......
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:06 -0500 John Vollbrecht <jrv@mtghouse.com> wrote:
>4:10 at the message board is fine.  I am also free for lunch, and  
>would like to meet with anyone that can't meet there at 4:10.  can  
>meet at message board at 11:30 if you want to have lunch.
>
>-- John
>
>
>On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Steve Hanna wrote:
>
>> Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been having
>> interesting conversations and thoughts since
>> the BOF. Unfortunately, Susan and I are busy
>> for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How about the
>> afternoon break today? I propose we meet at
>> 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. OK?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:03 AM
>>> To: NEA
>>> Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF?
>>>
>>> I am wondering if people would like to get together to review
>>> the BOF
>>> and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at
>>> IETF.  I have gotten some comments that I think are interesting and
>>> might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I
>>> have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I
>>> will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base
>>> for a few minutes.
>>>
>>> - John
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nea mailing list
>>> Nea@ietf.org
>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Nea mailing list
>Nea@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea
>


_______________________________________________
Nea mailing list
Nea@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea

--=_alternative 0062369486257139_=-- --===============0486104773== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --===============0486104773==-- From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 14:19:22 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM8ra-00066e-Qe; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:19:22 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM8rZ-00066Z-Hs for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:19:21 -0500 Received: from mga03.intel.com ([143.182.124.21] helo=azsmga101-1.ch.intel.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM8rY-0006Bg-R9 for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:19:21 -0500 Received: from azsmga001.ch.intel.com ([10.2.17.19]) by azsmga101-1.ch.intel.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 11:13:20 -0800 Received: from orsmsx331.jf.intel.com (HELO orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com) ([192.168.65.56]) by azsmga001.ch.intel.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 11:13:13 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,119,1141632000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="14337202:sNHT1868844915" Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:13:10 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:13:09 -0800 Message-ID: <96E39AF1B99FDC47A38DDAB22C3E70CA074E61AE@orsmsx408> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Thread-Index: AcZN2gCehwzmAgzWQPCdUtGOC3cASgACn3GA From: "Sahita, Ravi" To: "Diana J Arroyo" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 19:13:10.0128 (UTC) FILETIME=[A87CEF00:01C64DE4] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 03fb21b15d5177c512a4caa19876f30a Cc: John Vollbrecht , NEA X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1837455363==" Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1837455363== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C64DE4.A80EBA5B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C64DE4.A80EBA5B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I could not attend the IETF but did listen to the NEA Bof via the audio stream :-) Similarly cannot attend this meeting - would like to see any notes/summary=20 =20 thanks Ravi ________________________________ From: Diana J Arroyo [mailto:darroyo@us.ibm.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:53 AM To: thardjono@signacert.com Cc: John Vollbrecht; NEA Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? I'm back in Austin as well. If someone would be willing to post any notes/summaries from the meetings it would be greatly appreciated.=20 Regards, Diana Arroyo Software Engineer, Corporate Security Strategy 512.838.0088 darroyo@us.ibm.com=20 Thomas Hardjono =20 03/22/2006 11:22 AM=20 Please respond to thardjono=20 =20 To: John Vollbrecht , Steve Hanna =20 cc: John Vollbrecht , NEA =20 Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Apologies folks - I'm back on the west coast due to company meetings. /thomas/ ___ ---- Sent from a Treo --- ...... Original Message ....... On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:06 -0500 John Vollbrecht wrote: >4:10 at the message board is fine. I am also free for lunch, and =20 >would like to meet with anyone that can't meet there at 4:10. can =20 >meet at message board at 11:30 if you want to have lunch. > >-- John > > >On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Steve Hanna wrote: > >> Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been having >> interesting conversations and thoughts since >> the BOF. Unfortunately, Susan and I are busy >> for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How about the >> afternoon break today? I propose we meet at >> 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. OK? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Steve >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:03 AM >>> To: NEA >>> Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? >>> >>> I am wondering if people would like to get together to review >>> the BOF >>> and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at >>> IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are interesting and >>> might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I >>> have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I >>> will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base >>> for a few minutes. >>> >>> - John >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nea mailing list >>> Nea@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea >>> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Nea mailing list >Nea@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea ------_=_NextPart_001_01C64DE4.A80EBA5B Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I could not attend the IETF but did listen to = the NEA Bof=20 via the audio stream :-)
Similarly cannot attend this meeting - would = like to see=20 any notes/summary
 
thanks
Ravi


From: Diana J Arroyo = [mailto:darroyo@us.ibm.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:53 AM
To:=20 thardjono@signacert.com
Cc: John Vollbrecht; = NEA
Subject:=20 Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF?


I'm back in Austin as = well.  If=20 someone would be willing to post any notes/summaries from the meetings = it would=20 be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Diana Arroyo
Software Engineer, Corporate = Security=20 Strategy
512.838.0088
darroyo@us.ibm.com



Thomas Hardjono=20 <thardjono@signacert.com>=20

03/22/2006 11:22 AM =
Please respond to thardjono

        =
        To:   =  =20    John Vollbrecht <jrv@mtghouse.com>, Steve Hanna = <shanna@juniper.net>
 =20       cc:        John = Vollbrecht=20 <jrv@mtghouse.com>, NEA <nea@ietf.org> =
        Subject: =    =20    Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at=20 IETF?



Apologies folks -=20 I'm back on the west coast due to company=20 meetings.

/thomas/
___
---- Sent from a Treo = ---

......=20 Original Message .......
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:06 -0500 John = Vollbrecht=20 <jrv@mtghouse.com> wrote:
>4:10 at the message board is = fine.=20  I am also free for lunch, and  
>would like to meet = with anyone=20 that can't meet there at 4:10.  can  
>meet at message = board at=20 11:30 if you want to have lunch.
>
>--=20 John
>
>
>On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Steve Hanna=20 wrote:
>
>> Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been=20 having
>> interesting conversations and thoughts = since
>> the=20 BOF. Unfortunately, Susan and I are busy
>> for lunch (WG = Chairs=20 Lunch). How about the
>> afternoon break today? I propose we = meet=20 at
>> 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. = OK?
>>
>>=20 Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>> = -----Original=20 Message-----
>>> From: John Vollbrecht=20 [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, = 2006 10:03=20 AM
>>> To: NEA
>>> Subject: [Nea] meet to review = BOF at=20 IETF?
>>>
>>> I am wondering if people would = like to get=20 together to review
>>> the BOF
>>> and any = feedback we=20 might have gotten while we are face to face at
>>> IETF. =  I=20 have gotten some comments that I think are interesting = and
>>> might=20 help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when = I
>>> have=20 a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - = I
>>>=20 will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch=20 base
>>> for a few minutes.
>>>
>>> = -=20 John
>>>
>>>
>>>=20 _______________________________________________
>>> Nea = mailing=20 list
>>> Nea@ietf.org
>>>=20 https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea
>>>
>>>>
>
>
>________________________________________= _______
>Nea=20 mailing=20 list
>Nea@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ne= a
>


_______________________________________________
N= ea=20 mailing=20 list
Nea@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea

------_=_NextPart_001_01C64DE4.A80EBA5B-- --===============1837455363== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --===============1837455363==-- From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 14:21:17 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM8tR-0007Ee-FC; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:21:17 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM8tQ-0007EN-Ev for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:21:16 -0500 Received: from borg.juniper.net ([207.17.137.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM8tQ-0006D7-4p for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:21:16 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.funk.com) ([172.25.68.102]) by borg.juniper.net with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 11:21:16 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,119,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="538113711:sNHT23866992" Received: by MAIL2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:19:52 -0500 Message-ID: From: Steve Hanna To: "Sahita, Ravi" , Diana J Arroyo , thardjono@signacert.com Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:21:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 Cc: John Vollbrecht , NEA X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org OK. We'll try to get someone to take notes during our chat at 4:10 PM. Thanks, Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: Sahita, Ravi [mailto:ravi.sahita@intel.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 1:13 PM > To: Diana J Arroyo; thardjono@signacert.com > Cc: John Vollbrecht; NEA > Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? > > I could not attend the IETF but did listen to the NEA Bof via > the audio stream :-) > Similarly cannot attend this meeting - would like to see any > notes/summary > > thanks > Ravi > > ________________________________ > > From: Diana J Arroyo [mailto:darroyo@us.ibm.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:53 AM > To: thardjono@signacert.com > Cc: John Vollbrecht; NEA > Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? > > > > I'm back in Austin as well. If someone would be willing to > post any notes/summaries from the meetings it would be > greatly appreciated. > > Regards, > Diana Arroyo > Software Engineer, Corporate Security Strategy > 512.838.0088 > darroyo@us.ibm.com > > > > Thomas Hardjono > > 03/22/2006 11:22 AM > Please respond to thardjono > > > To: John Vollbrecht , Steve > Hanna > cc: John Vollbrecht , NEA > > Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? > > > > Apologies folks - I'm back on the west coast due to company meetings. > > /thomas/ > ___ > ---- Sent from a Treo --- > > ...... Original Message ....... > On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:06 -0500 John Vollbrecht > wrote: > >4:10 at the message board is fine. I am also free for lunch, and > >would like to meet with anyone that can't meet there at 4:10. can > >meet at message board at 11:30 if you want to have lunch. > > > >-- John > > > > > >On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Steve Hanna wrote: > > > >> Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been having > >> interesting conversations and thoughts since > >> the BOF. Unfortunately, Susan and I are busy > >> for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How about the > >> afternoon break today? I propose we meet at > >> 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. OK? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Steve > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:03 AM > >>> To: NEA > >>> Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? > >>> > >>> I am wondering if people would like to get together to review > >>> the BOF > >>> and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at > >>> IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are > interesting and > >>> might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I > >>> have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be > around - I > >>> will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to > touch base > >>> for a few minutes. > >>> > >>> - John > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Nea mailing list > >>> Nea@ietf.org > >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Nea mailing list > >Nea@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nea mailing list > Nea@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > > > _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 22 14:53:00 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM9O8-00056d-Qo; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:53:00 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM9O7-00056Y-0X for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:52:59 -0500 Received: from mga01.intel.com ([192.55.52.88] helo=fmsmga101-1.fm.intel.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FM9O5-0007Vh-UN for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:52:58 -0500 Received: from fmsmga001.fm.intel.com ([10.253.24.23]) by fmsmga101-1.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 11:38:52 -0800 Received: from orsmsx331.jf.intel.com (HELO orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com) ([192.168.65.56]) by fmsmga001.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2006 11:38:50 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,119,1141632000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="15162807:sNHT262888269" Received: from orsmsx411.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.22.226.47]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:38:49 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:38:48 -0800 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? thread-index: AcZN2gCehwzmAgzWQPCdUtGOC3cASgACn3GAAADjI/A= From: "Khosravi, Hormuzd M" To: "Sahita, Ravi" , "Diana J Arroyo" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 19:38:49.0988 (UTC) FILETIME=[3E50EC40:01C64DE8] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8da0cbf8c1eef8eab03772f2044efec0 Cc: John Vollbrecht , NEA X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0518729910==" Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0518729910== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C64DE8.3E1CD81F" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C64DE8.3E1CD81F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will be sending the minutes to the chairs today and they can post the WG meeting summary =20 Hormuzd =20 ________________________________ From: Sahita, Ravi [mailto:ravi.sahita@intel.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 11:13 AM To: Diana J Arroyo; thardjono@signacert.com Cc: John Vollbrecht; NEA Subject: RE: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? =20 I could not attend the IETF but did listen to the NEA Bof via the audio stream :-) Similarly cannot attend this meeting - would like to see any notes/summary=20 =20 thanks Ravi =20 ________________________________ From: Diana J Arroyo [mailto:darroyo@us.ibm.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:53 AM To: thardjono@signacert.com Cc: John Vollbrecht; NEA Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? I'm back in Austin as well. If someone would be willing to post any notes/summaries from the meetings it would be greatly appreciated.=20 Regards, Diana Arroyo Software Engineer, Corporate Security Strategy 512.838.0088 darroyo@us.ibm.com=20 =20 Thomas Hardjono =20 03/22/2006 11:22 AM=20 Please respond to thardjono=20 =20 To: John Vollbrecht , Steve Hanna =20 cc: John Vollbrecht , NEA =20 Subject: Re: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? Apologies folks - I'm back on the west coast due to company meetings. /thomas/ ___ ---- Sent from a Treo --- ...... Original Message ....... On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:06 -0500 John Vollbrecht wrote: >4:10 at the message board is fine. I am also free for lunch, and =20 >would like to meet with anyone that can't meet there at 4:10. can =20 >meet at message board at 11:30 if you want to have lunch. > >-- John > > >On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Steve Hanna wrote: > >> Good idea, John. I'm sure we've all been having >> interesting conversations and thoughts since >> the BOF. Unfortunately, Susan and I are busy >> for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How about the >> afternoon break today? I propose we meet at >> 4:10 PM at the IETF message board. OK? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Steve >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:03 AM >>> To: NEA >>> Subject: [Nea] meet to review BOF at IETF? >>> >>> I am wondering if people would like to get together to review >>> the BOF >>> and any feedback we might have gotten while we are face to face at >>> IETF. I have gotten some comments that I think are interesting and >>> might help moving forward, and I can note them in an email when I >>> have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I >>> will be here till Thursday afternoon - and would like to touch base >>> for a few minutes. >>> >>> - John >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nea mailing list >>> Nea@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea >>> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Nea mailing list >Nea@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea ------_=_NextPart_001_01C64DE8.3E1CD81F Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I will be sending the minutes to = the chairs today and they can post the WG meeting summary

 

Hormuzd

 


From: = Sahita, Ravi [mailto:ravi.sahita@intel.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March = 22, 2006 11:13 AM
To: Diana J Arroyo; thardjono@signacert.com
Cc: John Vollbrecht; = NEA
Subject: RE: [Nea] meet = to review BOF at IETF?

 

I could not attend the IETF but = did listen to the NEA Bof via the audio stream :-)

Similarly cannot attend this = meeting - would like to see any notes/summary

 

thanks

Ravi

 


From: Diana J Arroyo [mailto:darroyo@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March = 22, 2006 9:53 AM
To: = thardjono@signacert.com
Cc: John Vollbrecht; = NEA
Subject: Re: [Nea] meet = to review BOF at IETF?


I'm back in Austin as well.  If someone = would be willing to post any notes/summaries from the meetings it would be = greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Diana Arroyo
Software Engineer, Corporate Security Strategy
512.838.0088
darroyo@us.ibm.com


 

Thomas Hardjono <thardjono@signacert.com>

03/22/2006 11:22 AM
Please respond to thardjono

       
        To:        John Vollbrecht <jrv@mtghouse.com>, Steve Hanna = <shanna@juniper.net>
        cc:        John Vollbrecht <jrv@mtghouse.com>, NEA <nea@ietf.org>
        Subject:        Re: [Nea] = meet to review BOF at IETF?




Apologies folks - I'm back on the west coast due to company = meetings.

/thomas/
___
---- Sent from a Treo ---

...... Original Message = .......
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:53:06 -0500 John = Vollbrecht <jrv@mtghouse.com> wrote:
>4:10 at the message board is fine. =  I am also free for lunch, and  
>would like to meet with anyone that = can't meet there at 4:10.  can  
>meet at message board at 11:30 if you = want to have lunch.
>
>-- John
>
>
>On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Steve = Hanna wrote:
>
>> Good idea, John. I'm sure we've = all been having
>> interesting conversations and = thoughts since
>> the BOF. Unfortunately, Susan = and I are busy
>> for lunch (WG Chairs Lunch). How = about the
>> afternoon break today? I propose = we meet at
>> 4:10 PM at the IETF message = board. OK?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>> -----Original = Message-----
>>> From: John Vollbrecht [mailto:jrv@mtghouse.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, = 2006 10:03 AM
>>> To: NEA
>>> Subject: [Nea] meet to = review BOF at IETF?
>>>
>>> I am wondering if people = would like to get together to review
>>> the BOF
>>> and any feedback we might = have gotten while we are face to face at
>>> IETF.  I have gotten = some comments that I think are interesting and
>>> might help moving forward, = and I can note them in an email when I
>>> have a few minutes, but I am wondering if people will be around - I
>>> will be here till Thursday = afternoon - and would like to touch base
>>> for a few = minutes.
>>>
>>> - John
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nea mailing = list
>>> Nea@ietf.org
>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Nea mailing list
>Nea@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea
>


_______________________________________________
Nea mailing list
Nea@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea
=

------_=_NextPart_001_01C64DE8.3E1CD81F-- --===============0518729910== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --===============0518729910==-- From nea-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 23 17:32:34 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMYM6-0007S5-Dm; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:32:34 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMYM5-0007QT-GB for nea@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:32:33 -0500 Received: from borg.juniper.net ([207.17.137.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMYM4-00028f-7C for nea@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:32:33 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.funk.com) ([172.25.68.22]) by borg.juniper.net with ESMTP; 23 Mar 2006 14:32:17 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,123,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="538381831:sNHT36951367332" Received: by mail.funk.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:35:08 -0500 Message-ID: From: Steve Hanna To: NEA Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:32:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Subject: [Nea] Notes from yesterday's 4:10 PM NEA gathering X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Here are my notes from the informal NEA gathering yesterday at 4:10 PM. Comments welcome. I'd like to know what the broader email list thinks of these discussions. Agree? Disagree? Questions? Remember, IETF uses email as our primary forum and discussion mechanism. No concalls, few face-to-face meetings. And all decisions made in face-to-face meetings must be confirmed on the mailing list. There's no voting. Decisions are made by rough consensus of the group, as judged through the email list. So email discussion is paramount. Silence indicates lack of interest, not agreement or disagreement. Speak up! Thanks, Steve ------------- We reviewed some themes from the BOF: * Standardization of PA should be in scope * We need clear interoperability goals * There was some interest in standardizing the vertical lines in the architecture diagram The BOF attracted lots of people who hadn't previously been involved on the NEA list. This is good. We should encourage them to join the NEA email list. Steve Hanna took an action item to get an email sent to the ietf or ietf-announce list about this and to announce it at SAAG (the Security Area meeting). There was a lot of interest at the BOF in not tying the NEA work only to EAP. It should be usable over EAP or other transports. The current architecture can support this but it was not emphasized in the BOF presentations and the current proposed charter. Susan suggested that we focus on PA, PB, and PTT requirements and then on PA and PB standards. This will give us protocols that can work over EAP or other transports. Interoperability over EAP/RADIUS will also result and this is a high priority. John Vollbrecht said he would like to see PEAP, EAP-TTLS, and EAP-FAST specifications published as Informational RFCs. After some discussion, I think it was agreed that this should happen separately from the NEA effort. We talked about removing EAP and RADIUS from the problem statement. I think we agreed that instead we should document that as one use case but also document others and make sure PA and PB work over any of them. John and Hormuzd took an action item to write up some use cases. Steve asked if there was consensus that we should focus the charter on PA and PB designed to run over various transports. There was not unanimous agreement on that but some. John wants to get a tunneled EAP method ASAP. Hormuzd and others pointed out we can't just do PA and PB. We need use cases, an architecture, and a security analysis. We also need requirements for PA, PB, and the transport. Steve agreed to write up these notes and send them to the NEA list for review and comment. Steve and Susan will update the ADs. _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 23 19:55:24 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMaaJ-0007bW-Tq; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:55:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMaaH-0007WT-H2 for nea@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:55:21 -0500 Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.192.81]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMaaG-0002te-8z for nea@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:55:21 -0500 Received: from titan (unknown[198.208.36.27]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060324005518m1100bco7oe>; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:55:19 +0000 From: "Michael Lindskov" To: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:55:18 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c64edd$9f4f9690$28d35a94@titan> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcZO3Z5ZSsangRykRESKvTP122jpcA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 37af5f8fbf6f013c5b771388e24b09e7 Subject: [Nea] Additional Comments X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1390834608==" Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1390834608== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C64EB3.B6798E90" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C64EB3.B6798E90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, We might also want to begin to create a more complete list of potential work efforts for the entire architecture/framework. Once we get a view of the component efforts we can begin to prioritize activities. Please note that initial list is likely to change as we investigate further, but it could provide a roadmap for the initial charter. In general, I support the initial charter but we would do well to make sure that we have a strategic view to the overall technology. Sincerely, Michael Lindskov ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C64EB3.B6798E90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Steve,

We might also want to begin to create a more complete = list of potential work efforts for the entire architecture/framework. =  Once we get a view of the component efforts we can begin to prioritize = activities.  Please note that initial list is likely to change as we investigate further, = but it could provide a roadmap for the initial charter.  In general, I = support the initial charter but we would do well to make sure that we have a strategic view = to the overall technology.

Sincerely,

Michael Lindskov

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C64EB3.B6798E90-- --===============1390834608== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea --===============1390834608==-- From nea-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 24 13:49:09 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMrLQ-0007rN-MI; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:49:08 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMrLQ-0007rI-4f for nea@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:49:08 -0500 Received: from mga03.intel.com ([143.182.124.21] helo=azsmga101-1.ch.intel.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMrLP-0005kN-PZ for nea@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:49:08 -0500 Received: from azsmga001.ch.intel.com ([10.2.17.19]) by azsmga101-1.ch.intel.com with ESMTP; 24 Mar 2006 10:49:06 -0800 Received: from orsmsx331.jf.intel.com (HELO orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com) ([192.168.65.56]) by azsmga001.ch.intel.com with ESMTP; 24 Mar 2006 10:49:05 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,126,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="14950067:sNHT960088843" Received: from orsmsx411.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.22.226.47]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:49:03 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] Notes from yesterday's 4:10 PM NEA gathering Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:48:39 -0800 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] Notes from yesterday's 4:10 PM NEA gathering thread-index: AcZOybIdQ5bOgvpYTDi1HK+KTy8MGwAqR/eg From: "Khosravi, Hormuzd M" To: "Steve Hanna" , "NEA" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Mar 2006 18:49:03.0257 (UTC) FILETIME=[9EE97090:01C64F73] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Hi Steve, These notes look pretty accurate. Two things worth noting here... I think almost 15 or more folks showed up for this 'small discussion'. This shows the overwhelming interest in this work from the community. Also, there is consensus on starting work on Requirements, the questions are more around prioritization of certain interfaces (PA, PB) in the interest of making quick progress. Thanks for the good notes! Hormuzd -----Original Message----- From: Steve Hanna [mailto:shanna@juniper.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:32 PM To: NEA Subject: [Nea] Notes from yesterday's 4:10 PM NEA gathering Here are my notes from the informal NEA gathering yesterday at 4:10 PM. Comments welcome. I'd like to know what the broader email list thinks of these discussions. Agree? Disagree? Questions? Remember, IETF uses email as our primary forum and discussion mechanism. No concalls, few face-to-face meetings. And all decisions made in face-to-face meetings must be confirmed on the mailing list. There's no voting. Decisions are made by rough consensus of the group, as judged through the email list. So email discussion is paramount. Silence indicates lack of interest, not agreement or disagreement. Speak up! Thanks, Steve ------------- We reviewed some themes from the BOF: * Standardization of PA should be in scope * We need clear interoperability goals * There was some interest in standardizing the vertical lines in the architecture diagram The BOF attracted lots of people who hadn't previously been involved on the NEA list. This is good. We should encourage them to join the NEA email list. Steve Hanna took an action item to get an email sent to the ietf or ietf-announce list about this and to announce it at SAAG (the Security Area meeting). There was a lot of interest at the BOF in not tying the NEA work only to EAP. It should be usable over EAP or other transports. The current architecture can support this but it was not emphasized in the BOF presentations and the current proposed charter. Susan suggested that we focus on PA, PB, and PTT requirements and then on PA and PB standards. This will give us protocols that can work over EAP or other transports. Interoperability over EAP/RADIUS will also result and this is a high priority. John Vollbrecht said he would like to see PEAP, EAP-TTLS, and EAP-FAST specifications published as Informational RFCs. After some discussion, I think it was agreed that this should happen separately from the NEA effort. We talked about removing EAP and RADIUS from the problem statement. I think we agreed that instead we should document that as one use case but also document others and make sure PA and PB work over any of them. John and Hormuzd took an action item to write up some use cases. Steve asked if there was consensus that we should focus the charter on PA and PB designed to run over various transports. There was not unanimous agreement on that but some. John wants to get a tunneled EAP method ASAP. Hormuzd and others pointed out we can't just do PA and PB. We need use cases, an architecture, and a security analysis. We also need requirements for PA, PB, and the transport. Steve agreed to write up these notes and send them to the NEA list for review and comment. Steve and Susan will update the ADs. _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 24 16:11:52 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMtZY-0007ay-Gr; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:11:52 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMtZX-0007XX-F0 for nea@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:11:51 -0500 Received: from relay13.bu.edu ([128.197.27.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FMtZW-0003KG-5N for nea@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:11:51 -0500 X-Envelope-From: elg@bu.edu Received: from OIT-EX.ad.bu.edu (oit-bes1.bu.edu [128.197.22.43]) by relay13.bu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2OLAbPI009890 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:10:37 -0500 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:10:12 -0500 Message-ID: <56D476CC1C49B94B841267A5FB22D531435504@OIT-EX.ad.bu.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: NEA and I2's SALSA working group Thread-Index: AcZOycsZ77T7XrSUSA6+cBalidhIYgAtXUqA From: "Gauthier, Eric L" To: "NEA" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Subject: [Nea] NEA and I2's SALSA working group X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Hello, I'm involved with a working group within the US's Internet2 consortium named SALSA-Netauth (http://security.internet2.edu/netauth/) which has been looking at what we've called "automated policy enforcement", which roughly corresponds to systems such as NetReg, NAC, TNC, NAP, etc. Because a critical component of all of these systems involves interactions with endpoints, we're very interested in this working group. For those that might be interested in our work to date, we've generated two documents of our own, one is a "strategy" document covering various solutions to network policy enforcement at a very high level (http://security.internet2.edu/netauth/docs/internet2-salsa-netauth-poli cy-enforcement-200504.html). The other document represents an idealized architecture for implementing and integrating various enforcement technologies (http://security.internet2.edu/netauth/docs/draft-internet2-salsa-netaut h-architecture-04.pdf). Eric Gauthier Network Engineer 617-353-8218 ~^~ elg@nsegc.bu.edu Boston University - Office of IT =20 _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 27 14:44:15 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FNxdP-0007cq-7U; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:44:15 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FNxdN-0007cl-Vw for nea@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:44:13 -0500 Received: from borg.juniper.net ([207.17.137.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FNxdN-000605-Bm for nea@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:44:13 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.funk.com) ([172.25.68.102]) by borg.juniper.net with ESMTP; 27 Mar 2006 11:44:11 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,135,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="539204093:sNHT25024016" Received: by MAIL2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:42:43 -0500 Message-ID: From: Steve Hanna To: nea@ietf.org Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:44:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 681e62a2ce9b0804b459fe780d892beb Subject: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Here are the draft minutes from the NEA BOF last Tuesday, March 21, 2006. Thanks to Mauricio Sanchez and Hormuzd Khosravi for taking great minutes. I may have introduced some errors in combining them so please review these and send any comments or corrections to the list. Please send comments within one week so I can get the final minutes posted on schedule. Thanks, Steve ------------------- Draft Minutes of IETF NEA BOF at IETF 65 March 21, 2006 Taken by Hormuzd Khosravi and Mauricio Sanchez Steve Hanna reviewed the agenda and goals for the BOF. Susan Thomson gave a presentation on the NEA Problem Statement Internet-Draft. Discussion of the problem statement began. Stefan Santesson - I agree this is an important problem. But the protocols you have described are architecture dependent. It's not clear what you are trying to achieve. Steve Hanna - We are trying to achieve interoperability between NEA clients and servers. Amardeep Sibia of Goldman Sachs - Posture should include location as well. Steve Hanna - Do you mean geographic location or topological location? Amardeep - Both. Sam Hartman - Why focus so much on RADIUS? The protocols should work with DIAMETER or other protocols. Also, the posture data format should be specified. I understand why some of that needs to be proprietary but there should be a standard mandatory to implement posture format to ensure interoperability. Susan Thomson - The Posture Attribute protocol does define posture attribute format. It may address your concerns. As for RADIUS, there may be a need for new RADIUS attributes for new enforcement mechanisms. Bernard Aboba - We already have EAP-TTLS, PEAP, and EAP-FAST. Why don't we just publish those? Hao Zhou - It's too early to tell whether we'll simply pick a protocol or design a new one. Bernard Aboba - A posture attribute format is built into the PEAP & EAP-FAST. Hao Zhou - This may be true but vendors still use vendor specific attributes. Mike Linsco of General Motors - This is a very important subject for enterprises. Interoperability is crucial for this technology. We must have standards for this. Ram of Avaya - Is the goal to define a standard posture policy or define a framework? Steve Hanna - This group would not define a minimum policy for nodes to get onto the network. That would be up to the network administrator. Stefan Santesson - The interoperability goals are not clear enough to form a working group. There are several separate problem domains: A) how to communicate between client and server B) how to protect/authenticate communication C) how to express a statement of health. Also, RADIUS may not be applicable. IPSec (for example) could be used for enforcement. Uri Blumenthal - All of the lines in the diagram should be considered as protocols. The standard should not be restricted to particular interfaces. I do not think we should standardize posture attributes beyond the overall structure. Vidya or Tatiana of Qualcomm - Forcing EAP as a requirement is too limiting. Certificates allow greater application, regardless of the transport. Uri Blumenthal - You can't put posture into certificates. Certificates are long-lived and posture is short-lived. John Vollbrecht - The problem with the current tunneled EAP methods is that they are not well defined and documented. Getting standards for those is therefore important Elwyn Davies - The integrity of the client posture is important for the total solution, Are you going to work on this? Steve Hanna - This is the classic "lying client" problem. A compromised client can lie and say it's totally healthy. There are ways to mitigate this risk using a trusted software kernel or trusted hardware. But the NEA architecture is useful even if you don't solve the lying client problem. It helps keep honest clients healthy, thus reducing the risk of infection. You can think of that as an immunization program. But no, we won't work on solving the lying client problem. That can be done as an add-on to NEA. Amardeep Sibia - I'd like to reiterate that this is a very important problem in the enterprise. I'd also like to raise another issue. Some clients may not have an agent. That needs to be addressed as well. Pasi Eronen - The problem statement would benefit from additional discussion on what interoperability means. Ideally, posture collectors and validators from different vendors should be interoperable. But there's still value in standardization even if posture attributes are proprietary. Unknown Person - The Trusted Computing Group has been already working on this and has published several standards. You should look at them. Stefan Santesson - Certificates don't need to be long-lived. They can be short-lived. Also, certificates can be used with IPSec, TLS, etc. Pasi Eronen - A certificate would work if this was one way information only. But it will not work for two way communication. Uri Blumenthal - A statement of health could be used in a certificate. I want collectors and validators from different vendors to interoperate. Vidya or Tatiana of Qualcomm - Clarifies previous comment on certificates. My point is that limiting NEA to a specific set of EAP methods is overly limiting. Steve Hanna - User authentication can use any EAP method if you run it in a tunneled EAP method with an EAP method that carries posture. Thomas Narten - What's the client model? Will code for this ship in the operating system? Susan Thomson - An operating system could ship with a default policy of what it collects, but it's expected that most enterprises will want to have their own policy. Bob Hinden - This is a big problem, I'm not sure you understand it, and it's awfully complicated to get all the applications to support this. Anyway, it doesn't solve the problem. People who hack systems are very sophisticated. If you build this, they will just figure out how to subvert it. Steve Hanna - A trusted kernel or trusted hardware can make it much harder to subvert the system. And even if some attacks are successful, the health of endpoints will be improved overall. Security is not absolute. This is a big improvement. Susan Thomson - Information from other systems (like IDS) can be provide additional information beyond what the endpoint provides. Sean Conry -The lying client problem is manageable. As my father used to say, locks keep honest people honest. Bernard Aboba - Creating yet another EAP method doesn't make any sense. You should move one layer up and use IP. Steve Hanna - Runs through NEA Charter slides. Any comments? Questions? Unknown Person (Paul?) - How far up in the NEA architecture should we go? Where is the cut line? Sam Hartman - I believe this should be a Security area working group not an Internet area one. If you don't have some standardization of PA (at least a mandatory to implement minimum), then you won't have end-to-end interoperability so you won't meet the explicit IESG requirements. RADIUS is only one deployment scenario. You should be clear about when you're talking about EAP and when you're talking about RADIUS. They are separate. Paul Hoffman - A lot of work has been done in other groups. How do we pull in other vendors? Steve Hanna - Folks from TCG and Cisco are co-chairing this BOF. And there are a lot of major vendors in this room. I hope we'll get good participation. Stefan Santesson - Focusing this on EAP/Radius is wrong and the wg should not be chartered around this. Sam Hartman - Looks like we are rat holing on this. Margaret Wasserman - What problem are we trying to solve? The client might be completely unhealthy and lie about its state. Sam - NEA is definitely useful. I'd like to have the network inform me about new patches and offer to quarantine me to get them. And this is especially useful for inexperienced users. Jari Arkko - Yes, this is useful, but the charter isn't ready yet. We should agree on requirements first. Thomas Hardjono - How about a common standard for Posture Attributes? Sam Hartman - You need to be clear on how you want to achieve interoperability. Paul Hoffman - People are confusing format and protocols. Some see value in standardizing formats and some in standardizing protocols, some in both things. Instead of protocols, maybe we need to work with formats. Steve Hanna - I think I hear a consensus that the posture attribute (PA) protocol should be included in our scope. Is there consensus around that? Joe Tardo - Yes. Speaks in favor of standardization of PA. Steve Hanna takes a hum poll on whether standardization of Posture Attribute should be in. Poll is unanimous. Posture Attribute protocol should be in. Uri Blumenthal - PV is necessary in addition to PA. Paul Hoffman - Standardization of protocol between server broker and network access authority should also be considered. Uri Blumenthal - All the interfaces in the architecture diagram should be standardized. Steve Hanna - We don't need that for client server interoperability, which I have heard is the highest priority. Mark Townsley - Is PV a protocol or an API? Susan Thomson - In some existing architectures, it's a protocol. In others, it's an API. Uri Blumenthal - PV is necessary for a multi vendor solution. Steve takes hum poll on which protocols should be standardized as part of NEA charter: Posture Validation protocol - Clear majority in favor Interface Posture collectors and client broker - Uncertain Client broker and network access requestor - Clear majority opposed Server broker and network access authority - Uncertain Amardeep Sibia - I have a point to make on the problem statement. We should support endpoints that don't have agents. That's very important. Unknown Person - We should focus on the new work (PA, PV, etc.) that drives the rest of the protocols. Mark Townsley - Do we need to work on the yellow box (EAP & RADIUS) or might it be better to move up the stack? Stefan Santesson - Focusing on EAP/Radius may not be the right thing. Uri Blumenthal - We should just do requirements for the yellow box. Hao Zhu - We should define the requirements for the yellow box. Unknown Person - I want to provide some clarification on the EAP tunneling method. No wg is working on this right now. Amardeep Sibia - The yellow box is most important for interoperability. We do care about PA format as well. Consensus check questions for group (hum poll) Do you understand the problem? Yes Do you think it's an important problem? Yes Is it important and solvable? Yes Is there interest in forming a WG to solve this problem? There is some interest, but the results are not conclusive. Are you willing participate as a reviewer? About a dozen people held up their hands. _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 28 13:41:41 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOJ8P-0004bK-J2; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:41:41 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOJ8O-0004b2-Hd for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:41:40 -0500 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOHuu-0004V2-Vv for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:23:41 -0500 Received: from zrtps0kp.nortel.com ([47.140.192.56]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOHn6-0003Wc-Sr for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:15:38 -0500 Received: from zcarhxs1.corp.nortel.com (zcarhxs1.corp.nort...s0.corp.nortel.com [47.129.230.89]) by zrtps0kp.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id k2SHFX617841 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:15:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from nortel.com ([47.129.41.8] RDNS failed) by zcarhxs1.corp.nortel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:15:33 -0500 Message-ID: <44296F35.2020001@nortel.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:15:33 -0500 From: "Marcus Leech" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4.3) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nea@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2006 17:15:33.0310 (UTC) FILETIME=[38C675E0:01C6528B] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Subject: [Nea] Meeting minutes X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Minutes from IETF-65 meeting Are minutes from the meeting available? I was unable to attend IETF-65, having succumbed to a virus (you know, the old-fashioned biological kind :-) ). -- Marcus Leech Mail: Dept 1A12, M/S: 04352P16 Security Standards Advisor Phone: (ESN) 393-9145 +1 613 763 9145 Strategic Standards Nortel Networks mleech@nortel.com _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 28 14:34:45 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOJxl-0004Vw-3s; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:34:45 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOJxk-0004Vr-76 for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:34:44 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOJxh-0002wZ-V5 for nea@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:34:44 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com ([64.102.124.12]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Mar 2006 14:34:41 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,139,1141621200"; d="scan'208"; a="85174371:sNHT37621236" Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k2SJYfWc013793; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:34:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from xmb-rtp-205.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.59]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:34:41 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Nea] Meeting minutes Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:34:40 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Nea] Meeting minutes thread-index: AcZSl0esZ4tWQD5DSr2tyAGDHgxSdAABwrxw From: "Susan Thomson \(sethomso\)" To: "Marcus Leech" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2006 19:34:41.0429 (UTC) FILETIME=[A8A45450:01C6529E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Marcus Steve Hanna sent draft minutes to the list on Monday Mar 27 for review. In the mailing list archives if you missed it: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nea/current/index.html Susan -----Original Message----- From: Marcus Leech [mailto:mleech@nortel.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:16 PM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: [Nea] Meeting minutes Minutes from IETF-65 meeting Are minutes from the meeting available? I was unable to attend IETF-65, having succumbed to a virus (you know, the old-fashioned biological kind :-) ). --=20 Marcus Leech Mail: Dept 1A12, M/S: 04352P16 Security Standards Advisor Phone: (ESN) 393-9145 +1 613 763 9145 Strategic Standards Nortel Networks mleech@nortel.com _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 29 03:52:11 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOWPT-000889-9T; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:52:11 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOWPS-000884-Tf for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:52:10 -0500 Received: from mail.consulintel.es ([213.172.48.142] helo=consulintel.es) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOWPR-0001Ka-1Z for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:52:10 -0500 Received: from [10.10.10.50] by consulintel.es (MDaemon.PRO.v8.1.4.R) with ESMTP id md50001713622.msg for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:51:51 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.3.060209 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:52:00 +0200 Subject: Re: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: "nea@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes Thread-Index: AcZTDgqmSUuhoL8BEdq9qQANky3PwA== In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-Sender: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-HashCash: 1:20:060329:nea@ietf.org::/I4PsDTxIAtmYgQG:00000CEUU X-MDRemoteIP: 217.126.187.160 X-Return-Path: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: nea@ietf.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on mail.consulintel.es X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 required=4.8 tests=BAYES_00, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=3.0.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Processed: consulintel.es, Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:51:53 +0200 X-MDAV-Processed: consulintel.es, Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:51:55 +0200 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9cc83ac38bbbabacbf00f656311dd8d8 X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Hi Steve, When the consensus check was done, I step into the mic and indicated that this is a very important work and we have already been working on this for two years; actually we were also about to have a DISTSEC (distributed security) BOF, and my view about NEA is that is not clear to me if this work is already focused in one direction which not necessarily is the right one (and that's why we were working in DISTSEC). For some reason this has not been captured in the minutes, and I think is very important, as we may need first a more open view of the situation before going into something such as NEA. Regards, Jordi > De: Steve Hanna > Responder a: > Fecha: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:44:13 -0500 > Para: "nea@ietf.org" > Asunto: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes > > Here are the draft minutes from the NEA BOF last Tuesday, March 21, 2006. > Thanks to > Mauricio Sanchez and Hormuzd Khosravi for taking great minutes. I may have > introduced > some errors in combining them so please review these and send any comments > or > corrections to the list. Please send comments within one week so I can get > the final > minutes posted on schedule. > > Thanks, > > Steve > > ------------------- > > Draft Minutes of IETF NEA BOF at IETF 65 > March 21, 2006 > Taken by Hormuzd Khosravi and Mauricio Sanchez > > Steve Hanna reviewed the agenda and goals for the BOF. > > Susan Thomson gave a presentation on the NEA Problem Statement > Internet-Draft. Discussion of the problem statement began. > > Stefan Santesson - I agree this is an important problem. But the > protocols you have described are architecture dependent. It's not > clear what you are trying to achieve. > > Steve Hanna - We are trying to achieve interoperability between NEA > clients and servers. > > Amardeep Sibia of Goldman Sachs - Posture should include location as well. > Steve Hanna - Do you mean geographic location or topological location? > Amardeep - Both. > > Sam Hartman - Why focus so much on RADIUS? The protocols should work > with DIAMETER or other protocols. Also, the posture data format should > be specified. I understand why some of that needs to be proprietary > but there should be a standard mandatory to implement posture format > to ensure interoperability. > Susan Thomson - The Posture Attribute protocol does define posture > attribute format. It may address your concerns. As for RADIUS, there > may be a need for new RADIUS attributes for new enforcement > mechanisms. > > Bernard Aboba - We already have EAP-TTLS, PEAP, and EAP-FAST. Why > don't we just publish those? > Hao Zhou - It's too early to tell whether we'll simply pick a protocol > or design a new one. > > Bernard Aboba - A posture attribute format is built into the PEAP & > EAP-FAST. > Hao Zhou - This may be true but vendors still use vendor specific > attributes. > > Mike Linsco of General Motors - This is a very important subject for > enterprises. Interoperability is crucial for this technology. We must > have standards for this. > > Ram of Avaya - Is the goal to define a standard posture policy or > define a framework? > Steve Hanna - This group would not define a minimum policy for nodes > to get onto the network. That would be up to the network > administrator. > > Stefan Santesson - The interoperability goals are not clear enough to > form a working group. There are several separate problem domains: A) > how to communicate between client and server B) how to > protect/authenticate communication C) how to express a statement of > health. Also, RADIUS may not be applicable. IPSec (for example) could > be used for enforcement. > > Uri Blumenthal - All of the lines in the diagram should be considered > as protocols. The standard should not be restricted to particular > interfaces. I do not think we should standardize posture attributes > beyond the overall structure. > > Vidya or Tatiana of Qualcomm - Forcing EAP as a requirement is too > limiting. Certificates allow greater application, regardless of the > transport. > > Uri Blumenthal - You can't put posture into certificates. Certificates > are long-lived and posture is short-lived. > > John Vollbrecht - The problem with the current tunneled EAP methods is > that they are not well defined and documented. Getting standards for > those is therefore important > > Elwyn Davies - The integrity of the client posture is important for > the total solution, Are you going to work on this? > Steve Hanna - This is the classic "lying client" problem. A > compromised client can lie and say it's totally healthy. There are > ways to mitigate this risk using a trusted software kernel or trusted > hardware. But the NEA architecture is useful even if you don't solve > the lying client problem. It helps keep honest clients healthy, thus > reducing the risk of infection. You can think of that as an > immunization program. But no, we won't work on solving the lying > client problem. That can be done as an add-on to NEA. > > Amardeep Sibia - I'd like to reiterate that this is a very important > problem in the enterprise. I'd also like to raise another issue. Some > clients may not have an agent. That needs to be addressed as well. > > Pasi Eronen - The problem statement would benefit from additional > discussion on what interoperability means. Ideally, posture collectors > and validators from different vendors should be interoperable. But > there's still value in standardization even if posture attributes are > proprietary. > > Unknown Person - The Trusted Computing Group has been already working > on this and has published several standards. You should look at them. > > Stefan Santesson - Certificates don't need to be long-lived. They can > be short-lived. Also, certificates can be used with IPSec, TLS, etc. > > Pasi Eronen - A certificate would work if this was one way information > only. But it will not work for two way communication. > > Uri Blumenthal - A statement of health could be used in a certificate. > I want collectors and validators from different vendors to > interoperate. > > Vidya or Tatiana of Qualcomm - Clarifies previous comment on > certificates. My point is that limiting NEA to a specific set of EAP > methods is overly limiting. > Steve Hanna - User authentication can use any EAP method if you run it > in a tunneled EAP method with an EAP method that carries posture. > > Thomas Narten - What's the client model? Will code for this ship in > the operating system? > Susan Thomson - An operating system could ship with a default policy > of what it collects, but it's expected that most enterprises will want > to have their own policy. > > Bob Hinden - This is a big problem, I'm not sure you understand it, > and it's awfully complicated to get all the applications to support > this. Anyway, it doesn't solve the problem. People who hack systems > are very sophisticated. If you build this, they will just figure out > how to subvert it. > > Steve Hanna - A trusted kernel or trusted hardware can make it much > harder to subvert the system. And even if some attacks are successful, > the health of endpoints will be improved overall. Security is not > absolute. This is a big improvement. > > Susan Thomson - Information from other systems (like IDS) can be > provide additional information beyond what the endpoint provides. > > Sean Conry -The lying client problem is manageable. As my father used > to say, locks keep honest people honest. > > Bernard Aboba - Creating yet another EAP method doesn't make any > sense. You should move one layer up and use IP. > > Steve Hanna - Runs through NEA Charter slides. Any comments? Questions? > > Unknown Person (Paul?) - How far up in the NEA architecture should we > go? Where is the cut line? > > Sam Hartman - I believe this should be a Security area working group > not an Internet area one. If you don't have some standardization of PA > (at least a mandatory to implement minimum), then you won't have > end-to-end interoperability so you won't meet the explicit IESG > requirements. RADIUS is only one deployment scenario. You should be > clear about when you're talking about EAP and when you're talking > about RADIUS. They are separate. > > Paul Hoffman - A lot of work has been done in other groups. How do we > pull in other vendors? > Steve Hanna - Folks from TCG and Cisco are co-chairing this BOF. > And there are a lot of major vendors in this room. I hope we'll > get good participation. > > Stefan Santesson - Focusing this on EAP/Radius is wrong and the wg > should not be chartered around this. > > Sam Hartman - Looks like we are rat holing on this. > > Margaret Wasserman - What problem are we trying to solve? The client > might be completely unhealthy and lie about its state. > > Sam - NEA is definitely useful. I'd like to have the network inform > me about new patches and offer to quarantine me to get them. And this > is especially useful for inexperienced users. > > Jari Arkko - Yes, this is useful, but the charter isn't ready yet. We > should agree on requirements first. > > Thomas Hardjono - How about a common standard for Posture Attributes? > > Sam Hartman - You need to be clear on how you want to achieve > interoperability. > > Paul Hoffman - People are confusing format and protocols. Some see > value in standardizing formats and some in standardizing protocols, > some in both things. Instead of protocols, maybe we need to work with > formats. > > Steve Hanna - I think I hear a consensus that the posture attribute > (PA) protocol should be included in our scope. Is there consensus > around that? > > Joe Tardo - Yes. Speaks in favor of standardization of PA. > > Steve Hanna takes a hum poll on whether standardization of Posture > Attribute should be in. Poll is unanimous. Posture Attribute protocol > should be in. > > Uri Blumenthal - PV is necessary in addition to PA. > > Paul Hoffman - Standardization of protocol between server broker and > network access authority should also be considered. > > Uri Blumenthal - All the interfaces in the architecture diagram should > be standardized. > > Steve Hanna - We don't need that for client server interoperability, > which I have heard is the highest priority. > > Mark Townsley - Is PV a protocol or an API? > > Susan Thomson - In some existing architectures, it's a protocol. In > others, it's an API. > > Uri Blumenthal - PV is necessary for a multi vendor solution. > > Steve takes hum poll on which protocols should be standardized as part > of NEA charter: > > Posture Validation protocol - Clear majority in favor > Interface Posture collectors and client broker - Uncertain > Client broker and network access requestor - Clear majority opposed > Server broker and network access authority - Uncertain > > Amardeep Sibia - I have a point to make on the problem statement. We > should support endpoints that don't have agents. That's very > important. > > Unknown Person - We should focus on the new work (PA, PV, etc.) that > drives the rest of the protocols. > > Mark Townsley - Do we need to work on the yellow box (EAP & RADIUS) or > might it be better to move up the stack? > > Stefan Santesson - Focusing on EAP/Radius may not be the right thing. > > Uri Blumenthal - We should just do requirements for the yellow box. > > Hao Zhu - We should define the requirements for the yellow box. > > Unknown Person - I want to provide some clarification on the EAP > tunneling method. No wg is working on this right now. > > Amardeep Sibia - The yellow box is most important for > interoperability. We do care about PA format as well. > > Consensus check questions for group (hum poll) > > Do you understand the problem? Yes > Do you think it's an important problem? Yes > Is it important and solvable? Yes > Is there interest in forming a WG to solve this problem? There is > some interest, but the results are not conclusive. > Are you willing participate as a reviewer? About a dozen people > held up their hands. > > _______________________________________________ > Nea mailing list > Nea@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea ********************************************** The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org Barcelona 2005 Global IPv6 Summit Slides available at: http://www.ipv6-es.com This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited. _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 29 14:13:02 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOg6I-0007Uv-7R; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:13:02 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOg6I-0007Uq-0i for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:13:02 -0500 Received: from ogo.signacert.com ([207.162.214.7] helo=mail.signacert.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOg6G-0004U3-Ua for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:13:01 -0500 Received: from SCTPHTP42 (unknown [64.75.218.115]) by mail.signacert.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D0518EC46F; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:12:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Thomas Hardjono" To: , Subject: Common baseline architecture (focus & direction of NEA) -- RE: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:12:48 -0800 Organization: SignaCert Message-ID: <002001c65364$c923f610$6c01a8c0@SCTPHTP42> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcZTDgqmSUuhoL8BEdq9qQANky3PwAATuh2Q X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4c358d334afcd91b425d436ca5722f22 Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: THardjono@signacert.com List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Thanks Jordi. I should apologize first if anything I say offends anyone on this list. But I thought it would be useful to provide some context/background around NEA (as I understand it:) There is, I think, focus on the work being proposed. It may not have come across that clear in the BOF. There is already a large body of work behind the Trusted Network Connect (TNC) effort and also behind Cisco's Network Admission Control (NAC) program. The TNC work started around May 2004, while NAC was probably even earlier. The TNC community (which has nearly two dozen vendors) has already published a bunch of specifications at N+I in 2005, and even some demo implementations shown at N+I. Some vendors supporting TNC are already implementing some portions of the TNC functionalities in their products. Ditto with NAC partner companies. So, its not that the folks proposing the BOF/WG are working from zero and have no idea what they want to do:) The reason I attended and support the BOF is to try to develop some *common baseline architecture* agreement between TNC and NAC with the final aim of interoperability between *implementations in products*. So, the focus of the BOF is this common baseline architecture. This is why (rightly or wrongly) the draft focuses so many pages on a common architecture (and spends few lines on background information). I believe the folks proposing the NEA BOF agree that this is the focus and direction (ie. very clear, in fact). So its not quite correct to say NEA is not focused:) I don't think NEA takes away anything from DISTSEC (draft-kaeo-distsec-framework-00.txt). My reading of the distsec draft is that it focuses on policy definition/creation and enforcement (ie. core proposal is in Section 6.5 and 6.6). So, in many ways it complements NEA. cheers, /thomas/ -----Original Message----- From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es] Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 12:52 AM To: nea@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes Hi Steve, When the consensus check was done, I step into the mic and indicated that this is a very important work and we have already been working on this for two years; actually we were also about to have a DISTSEC (distributed security) BOF, and my view about NEA is that is not clear to me if this work is already focused in one direction which not necessarily is the right one (and that's why we were working in DISTSEC). For some reason this has not been captured in the minutes, and I think is very important, as we may need first a more open view of the situation before going into something such as NEA. Regards, Jordi > De: Steve Hanna > Responder a: > Fecha: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:44:13 -0500 > Para: "nea@ietf.org" > Asunto: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes > > Here are the draft minutes from the NEA BOF last Tuesday, March 21, 2006. > Thanks to > Mauricio Sanchez and Hormuzd Khosravi for taking great minutes. I may > have introduced some errors in combining them so please review these > and send any comments or corrections to the list. Please send comments > within one week so I can get the final minutes posted on schedule. > > Thanks, > > Steve > > ------------------- > > Draft Minutes of IETF NEA BOF at IETF 65 March 21, 2006 Taken by > Hormuzd Khosravi and Mauricio Sanchez > > Steve Hanna reviewed the agenda and goals for the BOF. > > Susan Thomson gave a presentation on the NEA Problem Statement > Internet-Draft. Discussion of the problem statement began. > > Stefan Santesson - I agree this is an important problem. But the > protocols you have described are architecture dependent. It's not > clear what you are trying to achieve. > > Steve Hanna - We are trying to achieve interoperability between NEA > clients and servers. > > Amardeep Sibia of Goldman Sachs - Posture should include location as well. > Steve Hanna - Do you mean geographic location or topological location? > Amardeep - Both. > > Sam Hartman - Why focus so much on RADIUS? The protocols should work > with DIAMETER or other protocols. Also, the posture data format should > be specified. I understand why some of that needs to be proprietary > but there should be a standard mandatory to implement posture format > to ensure interoperability. > Susan Thomson - The Posture Attribute protocol does define posture > attribute format. It may address your concerns. As for RADIUS, there > may be a need for new RADIUS attributes for new enforcement > mechanisms. > > Bernard Aboba - We already have EAP-TTLS, PEAP, and EAP-FAST. Why > don't we just publish those? > Hao Zhou - It's too early to tell whether we'll simply pick a protocol > or design a new one. > > Bernard Aboba - A posture attribute format is built into the PEAP & > EAP-FAST. > Hao Zhou - This may be true but vendors still use vendor specific > attributes. > > Mike Linsco of General Motors - This is a very important subject for > enterprises. Interoperability is crucial for this technology. We must > have standards for this. > > Ram of Avaya - Is the goal to define a standard posture policy or > define a framework? > Steve Hanna - This group would not define a minimum policy for nodes > to get onto the network. That would be up to the network > administrator. > > Stefan Santesson - The interoperability goals are not clear enough to > form a working group. There are several separate problem domains: A) > how to communicate between client and server B) how to > protect/authenticate communication C) how to express a statement of > health. Also, RADIUS may not be applicable. IPSec (for example) could > be used for enforcement. > > Uri Blumenthal - All of the lines in the diagram should be considered > as protocols. The standard should not be restricted to particular > interfaces. I do not think we should standardize posture attributes > beyond the overall structure. > > Vidya or Tatiana of Qualcomm - Forcing EAP as a requirement is too > limiting. Certificates allow greater application, regardless of the > transport. > > Uri Blumenthal - You can't put posture into certificates. Certificates > are long-lived and posture is short-lived. > > John Vollbrecht - The problem with the current tunneled EAP methods is > that they are not well defined and documented. Getting standards for > those is therefore important > > Elwyn Davies - The integrity of the client posture is important for > the total solution, Are you going to work on this? > Steve Hanna - This is the classic "lying client" problem. A > compromised client can lie and say it's totally healthy. There are > ways to mitigate this risk using a trusted software kernel or trusted > hardware. But the NEA architecture is useful even if you don't solve > the lying client problem. It helps keep honest clients healthy, thus > reducing the risk of infection. You can think of that as an > immunization program. But no, we won't work on solving the lying > client problem. That can be done as an add-on to NEA. > > Amardeep Sibia - I'd like to reiterate that this is a very important > problem in the enterprise. I'd also like to raise another issue. Some > clients may not have an agent. That needs to be addressed as well. > > Pasi Eronen - The problem statement would benefit from additional > discussion on what interoperability means. Ideally, posture collectors > and validators from different vendors should be interoperable. But > there's still value in standardization even if posture attributes are > proprietary. > > Unknown Person - The Trusted Computing Group has been already working > on this and has published several standards. You should look at them. > > Stefan Santesson - Certificates don't need to be long-lived. They can > be short-lived. Also, certificates can be used with IPSec, TLS, etc. > > Pasi Eronen - A certificate would work if this was one way information > only. But it will not work for two way communication. > > Uri Blumenthal - A statement of health could be used in a certificate. > I want collectors and validators from different vendors to > interoperate. > > Vidya or Tatiana of Qualcomm - Clarifies previous comment on > certificates. My point is that limiting NEA to a specific set of EAP > methods is overly limiting. > Steve Hanna - User authentication can use any EAP method if you run it > in a tunneled EAP method with an EAP method that carries posture. > > Thomas Narten - What's the client model? Will code for this ship in > the operating system? > Susan Thomson - An operating system could ship with a default policy > of what it collects, but it's expected that most enterprises will want > to have their own policy. > > Bob Hinden - This is a big problem, I'm not sure you understand it, > and it's awfully complicated to get all the applications to support > this. Anyway, it doesn't solve the problem. People who hack systems > are very sophisticated. If you build this, they will just figure out > how to subvert it. > > Steve Hanna - A trusted kernel or trusted hardware can make it much > harder to subvert the system. And even if some attacks are successful, > the health of endpoints will be improved overall. Security is not > absolute. This is a big improvement. > > Susan Thomson - Information from other systems (like IDS) can be > provide additional information beyond what the endpoint provides. > > Sean Conry -The lying client problem is manageable. As my father used > to say, locks keep honest people honest. > > Bernard Aboba - Creating yet another EAP method doesn't make any > sense. You should move one layer up and use IP. > > Steve Hanna - Runs through NEA Charter slides. Any comments? Questions? > > Unknown Person (Paul?) - How far up in the NEA architecture should we > go? Where is the cut line? > > Sam Hartman - I believe this should be a Security area working group > not an Internet area one. If you don't have some standardization of PA > (at least a mandatory to implement minimum), then you won't have > end-to-end interoperability so you won't meet the explicit IESG > requirements. RADIUS is only one deployment scenario. You should be > clear about when you're talking about EAP and when you're talking > about RADIUS. They are separate. > > Paul Hoffman - A lot of work has been done in other groups. How do we > pull in other vendors? > Steve Hanna - Folks from TCG and Cisco are co-chairing this BOF. > And there are a lot of major vendors in this room. I hope we'll get > good participation. > > Stefan Santesson - Focusing this on EAP/Radius is wrong and the wg > should not be chartered around this. > > Sam Hartman - Looks like we are rat holing on this. > > Margaret Wasserman - What problem are we trying to solve? The client > might be completely unhealthy and lie about its state. > > Sam - NEA is definitely useful. I'd like to have the network inform me > about new patches and offer to quarantine me to get them. And this is > especially useful for inexperienced users. > > Jari Arkko - Yes, this is useful, but the charter isn't ready yet. We > should agree on requirements first. > > Thomas Hardjono - How about a common standard for Posture Attributes? > > Sam Hartman - You need to be clear on how you want to achieve > interoperability. > > Paul Hoffman - People are confusing format and protocols. Some see > value in standardizing formats and some in standardizing protocols, > some in both things. Instead of protocols, maybe we need to work with > formats. > > Steve Hanna - I think I hear a consensus that the posture attribute > (PA) protocol should be included in our scope. Is there consensus > around that? > > Joe Tardo - Yes. Speaks in favor of standardization of PA. > > Steve Hanna takes a hum poll on whether standardization of Posture > Attribute should be in. Poll is unanimous. Posture Attribute protocol > should be in. > > Uri Blumenthal - PV is necessary in addition to PA. > > Paul Hoffman - Standardization of protocol between server broker and > network access authority should also be considered. > > Uri Blumenthal - All the interfaces in the architecture diagram should > be standardized. > > Steve Hanna - We don't need that for client server interoperability, > which I have heard is the highest priority. > > Mark Townsley - Is PV a protocol or an API? > > Susan Thomson - In some existing architectures, it's a protocol. In > others, it's an API. > > Uri Blumenthal - PV is necessary for a multi vendor solution. > > Steve takes hum poll on which protocols should be standardized as part > of NEA charter: > > Posture Validation protocol - Clear majority in favor > Interface Posture collectors and client broker - Uncertain > Client broker and network access requestor - Clear majority opposed > Server broker and network access authority - Uncertain > > Amardeep Sibia - I have a point to make on the problem statement. We > should support endpoints that don't have agents. That's very > important. > > Unknown Person - We should focus on the new work (PA, PV, etc.) that > drives the rest of the protocols. > > Mark Townsley - Do we need to work on the yellow box (EAP & RADIUS) or > might it be better to move up the stack? > > Stefan Santesson - Focusing on EAP/Radius may not be the right thing. > > Uri Blumenthal - We should just do requirements for the yellow box. > > Hao Zhu - We should define the requirements for the yellow box. > > Unknown Person - I want to provide some clarification on the EAP > tunneling method. No wg is working on this right now. > > Amardeep Sibia - The yellow box is most important for > interoperability. We do care about PA format as well. > > Consensus check questions for group (hum poll) > > Do you understand the problem? Yes > Do you think it's an important problem? Yes > Is it important and solvable? Yes > Is there interest in forming a WG to solve this problem? There is > some interest, but the results are not conclusive. > Are you willing participate as a reviewer? About a dozen people > held up their hands. > > _______________________________________________ > Nea mailing list > Nea@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea ********************************************** The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org Barcelona 2005 Global IPv6 Summit Slides available at: http://www.ipv6-es.com This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited. _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 29 14:50:44 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOggm-0006dV-Q1; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:50:44 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOggk-0006dQ-Vg for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:50:42 -0500 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.16.245]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOggk-0005i7-3a for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:50:42 -0500 Received: from [71.39.132.242] ([71.39.132.242]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2TJoaT4029344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:50:37 -0800 In-Reply-To: <002001c65364$c923f610$6c01a8c0@SCTPHTP42> References: <002001c65364$c923f610$6c01a8c0@SCTPHTP42> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <09daf72cb51c541d210fa940db826a7c@doubleshotsecurity.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Merike Kaeo Subject: Re: Common baseline architecture (focus & direction of NEA) -- RE: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:52:14 -0800 To: THardjono@SignaCert.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 819069d28e3cfe534e22b502261ce83f Cc: nea@ietf.org X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org I agree that NEA essentially complements the distributed security work. In my opinion it is a subset of the problem that the distributed security problem statement /threat model is based on. My hope is that the NEA work ensures that any common baseline architecture can later be supplemented to take into consideration distributed policy enforcement and distributed firewall architectures. - merike On Mar 29, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Thomas Hardjono wrote: > > Thanks Jordi. > > I should apologize first if anything I say offends anyone on this > list. But > I thought it would be useful to provide some context/background around > NEA > (as I understand it:) There is, I think, focus on the work being > proposed. > It may not have come across that clear in the BOF. > > There is already a large body of work behind the Trusted Network > Connect > (TNC) effort and also behind Cisco's Network Admission Control (NAC) > program. The TNC work started around May 2004, while NAC was probably > even > earlier. The TNC community (which has nearly two dozen vendors) has > already > published a bunch of specifications at N+I in 2005, and even some demo > implementations shown at N+I. Some vendors supporting TNC are already > implementing some portions of the TNC functionalities in their > products. > Ditto with NAC partner companies. > > So, its not that the folks proposing the BOF/WG are working from zero > and > have no idea what they want to do:) > > The reason I attended and support the BOF is to try to develop some > *common > baseline architecture* agreement between TNC and NAC with the final > aim of > interoperability between *implementations in products*. > > So, the focus of the BOF is this common baseline architecture. This is > why > (rightly or wrongly) the draft focuses so many pages on a common > architecture (and spends few lines on background information). > > I believe the folks proposing the NEA BOF agree that this is the focus > and > direction (ie. very clear, in fact). So its not quite correct to say > NEA is > not focused:) > > I don't think NEA takes away anything from DISTSEC > (draft-kaeo-distsec-framework-00.txt). My reading of the distsec draft > is > that it focuses on policy definition/creation and enforcement (ie. core > proposal is in Section 6.5 and 6.6). So, in many ways it complements > NEA. > > cheers, > > /thomas/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es] > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 12:52 AM > To: nea@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes > > Hi Steve, > > When the consensus check was done, I step into the mic and indicated > that > this is a very important work and we have already been working on this > for > two years; actually we were also about to have a DISTSEC (distributed > security) BOF, and my view about NEA is that is not clear to me if > this work > is already focused in one direction which not necessarily is the right > one > (and that's why we were working in DISTSEC). > > For some reason this has not been captured in the minutes, and I think > is > very important, as we may need first a more open view of the situation > before going into something such as NEA. > > Regards, > Jordi > > > > >> De: Steve Hanna >> Responder a: >> Fecha: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:44:13 -0500 >> Para: "nea@ietf.org" >> Asunto: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes >> >> Here are the draft minutes from the NEA BOF last Tuesday, March 21, >> 2006. >> Thanks to >> Mauricio Sanchez and Hormuzd Khosravi for taking great minutes. I may >> have introduced some errors in combining them so please review these >> and send any comments or corrections to the list. Please send comments >> within one week so I can get the final minutes posted on schedule. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Steve >> >> ------------------- >> >> Draft Minutes of IETF NEA BOF at IETF 65 March 21, 2006 Taken by >> Hormuzd Khosravi and Mauricio Sanchez >> >> Steve Hanna reviewed the agenda and goals for the BOF. >> >> Susan Thomson gave a presentation on the NEA Problem Statement >> Internet-Draft. Discussion of the problem statement began. >> >> Stefan Santesson - I agree this is an important problem. But the >> protocols you have described are architecture dependent. It's not >> clear what you are trying to achieve. >> >> Steve Hanna - We are trying to achieve interoperability between NEA >> clients and servers. >> >> Amardeep Sibia of Goldman Sachs - Posture should include location as >> well. >> Steve Hanna - Do you mean geographic location or topological location? >> Amardeep - Both. >> >> Sam Hartman - Why focus so much on RADIUS? The protocols should work >> with DIAMETER or other protocols. Also, the posture data format should >> be specified. I understand why some of that needs to be proprietary >> but there should be a standard mandatory to implement posture format >> to ensure interoperability. >> Susan Thomson - The Posture Attribute protocol does define posture >> attribute format. It may address your concerns. As for RADIUS, there >> may be a need for new RADIUS attributes for new enforcement >> mechanisms. >> >> Bernard Aboba - We already have EAP-TTLS, PEAP, and EAP-FAST. Why >> don't we just publish those? >> Hao Zhou - It's too early to tell whether we'll simply pick a protocol >> or design a new one. >> >> Bernard Aboba - A posture attribute format is built into the PEAP & >> EAP-FAST. >> Hao Zhou - This may be true but vendors still use vendor specific >> attributes. >> >> Mike Linsco of General Motors - This is a very important subject for >> enterprises. Interoperability is crucial for this technology. We must >> have standards for this. >> >> Ram of Avaya - Is the goal to define a standard posture policy or >> define a framework? >> Steve Hanna - This group would not define a minimum policy for nodes >> to get onto the network. That would be up to the network >> administrator. >> >> Stefan Santesson - The interoperability goals are not clear enough to >> form a working group. There are several separate problem domains: A) >> how to communicate between client and server B) how to >> protect/authenticate communication C) how to express a statement of >> health. Also, RADIUS may not be applicable. IPSec (for example) could >> be used for enforcement. >> >> Uri Blumenthal - All of the lines in the diagram should be considered >> as protocols. The standard should not be restricted to particular >> interfaces. I do not think we should standardize posture attributes >> beyond the overall structure. >> >> Vidya or Tatiana of Qualcomm - Forcing EAP as a requirement is too >> limiting. Certificates allow greater application, regardless of the >> transport. >> >> Uri Blumenthal - You can't put posture into certificates. Certificates >> are long-lived and posture is short-lived. >> >> John Vollbrecht - The problem with the current tunneled EAP methods is >> that they are not well defined and documented. Getting standards for >> those is therefore important >> >> Elwyn Davies - The integrity of the client posture is important for >> the total solution, Are you going to work on this? >> Steve Hanna - This is the classic "lying client" problem. A >> compromised client can lie and say it's totally healthy. There are >> ways to mitigate this risk using a trusted software kernel or trusted >> hardware. But the NEA architecture is useful even if you don't solve >> the lying client problem. It helps keep honest clients healthy, thus >> reducing the risk of infection. You can think of that as an >> immunization program. But no, we won't work on solving the lying >> client problem. That can be done as an add-on to NEA. >> >> Amardeep Sibia - I'd like to reiterate that this is a very important >> problem in the enterprise. I'd also like to raise another issue. Some >> clients may not have an agent. That needs to be addressed as well. >> >> Pasi Eronen - The problem statement would benefit from additional >> discussion on what interoperability means. Ideally, posture collectors >> and validators from different vendors should be interoperable. But >> there's still value in standardization even if posture attributes are >> proprietary. >> >> Unknown Person - The Trusted Computing Group has been already working >> on this and has published several standards. You should look at them. >> >> Stefan Santesson - Certificates don't need to be long-lived. They can >> be short-lived. Also, certificates can be used with IPSec, TLS, etc. >> >> Pasi Eronen - A certificate would work if this was one way information >> only. But it will not work for two way communication. >> >> Uri Blumenthal - A statement of health could be used in a certificate. >> I want collectors and validators from different vendors to >> interoperate. >> >> Vidya or Tatiana of Qualcomm - Clarifies previous comment on >> certificates. My point is that limiting NEA to a specific set of EAP >> methods is overly limiting. >> Steve Hanna - User authentication can use any EAP method if you run it >> in a tunneled EAP method with an EAP method that carries posture. >> >> Thomas Narten - What's the client model? Will code for this ship in >> the operating system? >> Susan Thomson - An operating system could ship with a default policy >> of what it collects, but it's expected that most enterprises will want >> to have their own policy. >> >> Bob Hinden - This is a big problem, I'm not sure you understand it, >> and it's awfully complicated to get all the applications to support >> this. Anyway, it doesn't solve the problem. People who hack systems >> are very sophisticated. If you build this, they will just figure out >> how to subvert it. >> >> Steve Hanna - A trusted kernel or trusted hardware can make it much >> harder to subvert the system. And even if some attacks are successful, >> the health of endpoints will be improved overall. Security is not >> absolute. This is a big improvement. >> >> Susan Thomson - Information from other systems (like IDS) can be >> provide additional information beyond what the endpoint provides. >> >> Sean Conry -The lying client problem is manageable. As my father used >> to say, locks keep honest people honest. >> >> Bernard Aboba - Creating yet another EAP method doesn't make any >> sense. You should move one layer up and use IP. >> >> Steve Hanna - Runs through NEA Charter slides. Any comments? >> Questions? >> >> Unknown Person (Paul?) - How far up in the NEA architecture should we >> go? Where is the cut line? >> >> Sam Hartman - I believe this should be a Security area working group >> not an Internet area one. If you don't have some standardization of PA >> (at least a mandatory to implement minimum), then you won't have >> end-to-end interoperability so you won't meet the explicit IESG >> requirements. RADIUS is only one deployment scenario. You should be >> clear about when you're talking about EAP and when you're talking >> about RADIUS. They are separate. >> >> Paul Hoffman - A lot of work has been done in other groups. How do we >> pull in other vendors? >> Steve Hanna - Folks from TCG and Cisco are co-chairing this BOF. >> And there are a lot of major vendors in this room. I hope we'll get >> good participation. >> >> Stefan Santesson - Focusing this on EAP/Radius is wrong and the wg >> should not be chartered around this. >> >> Sam Hartman - Looks like we are rat holing on this. >> >> Margaret Wasserman - What problem are we trying to solve? The client >> might be completely unhealthy and lie about its state. >> >> Sam - NEA is definitely useful. I'd like to have the network inform me >> about new patches and offer to quarantine me to get them. And this is >> especially useful for inexperienced users. >> >> Jari Arkko - Yes, this is useful, but the charter isn't ready yet. We >> should agree on requirements first. >> >> Thomas Hardjono - How about a common standard for Posture Attributes? >> >> Sam Hartman - You need to be clear on how you want to achieve >> interoperability. >> >> Paul Hoffman - People are confusing format and protocols. Some see >> value in standardizing formats and some in standardizing protocols, >> some in both things. Instead of protocols, maybe we need to work with >> formats. >> >> Steve Hanna - I think I hear a consensus that the posture attribute >> (PA) protocol should be included in our scope. Is there consensus >> around that? >> >> Joe Tardo - Yes. Speaks in favor of standardization of PA. >> >> Steve Hanna takes a hum poll on whether standardization of Posture >> Attribute should be in. Poll is unanimous. Posture Attribute protocol >> should be in. >> >> Uri Blumenthal - PV is necessary in addition to PA. >> >> Paul Hoffman - Standardization of protocol between server broker and >> network access authority should also be considered. >> >> Uri Blumenthal - All the interfaces in the architecture diagram should >> be standardized. >> >> Steve Hanna - We don't need that for client server interoperability, >> which I have heard is the highest priority. >> >> Mark Townsley - Is PV a protocol or an API? >> >> Susan Thomson - In some existing architectures, it's a protocol. In >> others, it's an API. >> >> Uri Blumenthal - PV is necessary for a multi vendor solution. >> >> Steve takes hum poll on which protocols should be standardized as part >> of NEA charter: >> >> Posture Validation protocol - Clear majority in favor >> Interface Posture collectors and client broker - Uncertain >> Client broker and network access requestor - Clear majority opposed >> Server broker and network access authority - Uncertain >> >> Amardeep Sibia - I have a point to make on the problem statement. We >> should support endpoints that don't have agents. That's very >> important. >> >> Unknown Person - We should focus on the new work (PA, PV, etc.) that >> drives the rest of the protocols. >> >> Mark Townsley - Do we need to work on the yellow box (EAP & RADIUS) or >> might it be better to move up the stack? >> >> Stefan Santesson - Focusing on EAP/Radius may not be the right thing. >> >> Uri Blumenthal - We should just do requirements for the yellow box. >> >> Hao Zhu - We should define the requirements for the yellow box. >> >> Unknown Person - I want to provide some clarification on the EAP >> tunneling method. No wg is working on this right now. >> >> Amardeep Sibia - The yellow box is most important for >> interoperability. We do care about PA format as well. >> >> Consensus check questions for group (hum poll) >> >> Do you understand the problem? Yes >> Do you think it's an important problem? Yes >> Is it important and solvable? Yes >> Is there interest in forming a WG to solve this problem? There is >> some interest, but the results are not conclusive. >> Are you willing participate as a reviewer? About a dozen people >> held up their hands. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nea mailing list >> Nea@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > > > > > ********************************************** > The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org > > Barcelona 2005 Global IPv6 Summit > Slides available at: > http://www.ipv6-es.com > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the > individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be > aware > that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of > this > information, including attached files, is prohibited. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nea mailing list > Nea@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > > > _______________________________________________ > Nea mailing list > Nea@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea From nea-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 29 20:01:52 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOlXs-0006nY-5H; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:01:52 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOlXr-0006n9-4p for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:01:51 -0500 Received: from borg.juniper.net ([207.17.137.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOlXo-0003uU-Cm for nea@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:01:51 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.funk.com) ([172.25.68.102]) by borg.juniper.net with ESMTP; 29 Mar 2006 17:01:47 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,145,1141632000"; d="scan'208"; a="539768472:sNHT26389094" Received: by MAIL2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:00:15 -0500 Message-ID: From: Steve Hanna To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es, nea@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:01:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4166dd0e0c668adc975c3d3e0f1bce3b Cc: X-BeenThere: nea@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Endpoint Assessment discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: nea-bounces@ietf.org Thanks for pointing out this omission in the minutes, Jordi. I will correct it in the next version. Take care, Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es] > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:52 PM > To: nea@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes > > Hi Steve, > > When the consensus check was done, I step into the mic and > indicated that > this is a very important work and we have already been > working on this for > two years; actually we were also about to have a DISTSEC (distributed > security) BOF, and my view about NEA is that is not clear to > me if this work > is already focused in one direction which not necessarily is > the right one > (and that's why we were working in DISTSEC). > > For some reason this has not been captured in the minutes, > and I think is > very important, as we may need first a more open view of the situation > before going into something such as NEA. > > Regards, > Jordi > > > > > > De: Steve Hanna > > Responder a: > > Fecha: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:44:13 -0500 > > Para: "nea@ietf.org" > > Asunto: [Nea] Draft NEA BOF minutes > > > > Here are the draft minutes from the NEA BOF last Tuesday, > March 21, 2006. > > Thanks to > > Mauricio Sanchez and Hormuzd Khosravi for taking great > minutes. I may have > > introduced > > some errors in combining them so please review these and > send any comments > > or > > corrections to the list. Please send comments within one > week so I can get > > the final > > minutes posted on schedule. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Steve > > > > ------------------- > > > > Draft Minutes of IETF NEA BOF at IETF 65 > > March 21, 2006 > > Taken by Hormuzd Khosravi and Mauricio Sanchez > > > > Steve Hanna reviewed the agenda and goals for the BOF. > > > > Susan Thomson gave a presentation on the NEA Problem Statement > > Internet-Draft. Discussion of the problem statement began. > > > > Stefan Santesson - I agree this is an important problem. But the > > protocols you have described are architecture dependent. It's not > > clear what you are trying to achieve. > > > > Steve Hanna - We are trying to achieve interoperability between NEA > > clients and servers. > > > > Amardeep Sibia of Goldman Sachs - Posture should include > location as well. > > Steve Hanna - Do you mean geographic location or > topological location? > > Amardeep - Both. > > > > Sam Hartman - Why focus so much on RADIUS? The protocols should work > > with DIAMETER or other protocols. Also, the posture data > format should > > be specified. I understand why some of that needs to be proprietary > > but there should be a standard mandatory to implement posture format > > to ensure interoperability. > > Susan Thomson - The Posture Attribute protocol does define posture > > attribute format. It may address your concerns. As for RADIUS, there > > may be a need for new RADIUS attributes for new enforcement > > mechanisms. > > > > Bernard Aboba - We already have EAP-TTLS, PEAP, and EAP-FAST. Why > > don't we just publish those? > > Hao Zhou - It's too early to tell whether we'll simply pick > a protocol > > or design a new one. > > > > Bernard Aboba - A posture attribute format is built into the PEAP & > > EAP-FAST. > > Hao Zhou - This may be true but vendors still use vendor specific > > attributes. > > > > Mike Linsco of General Motors - This is a very important subject for > > enterprises. Interoperability is crucial for this > technology. We must > > have standards for this. > > > > Ram of Avaya - Is the goal to define a standard posture policy or > > define a framework? > > Steve Hanna - This group would not define a minimum policy for nodes > > to get onto the network. That would be up to the network > > administrator. > > > > Stefan Santesson - The interoperability goals are not clear > enough to > > form a working group. There are several separate problem domains: A) > > how to communicate between client and server B) how to > > protect/authenticate communication C) how to express a statement of > > health. Also, RADIUS may not be applicable. IPSec (for > example) could > > be used for enforcement. > > > > Uri Blumenthal - All of the lines in the diagram should be > considered > > as protocols. The standard should not be restricted to particular > > interfaces. I do not think we should standardize posture attributes > > beyond the overall structure. > > > > Vidya or Tatiana of Qualcomm - Forcing EAP as a requirement is too > > limiting. Certificates allow greater application, regardless of the > > transport. > > > > Uri Blumenthal - You can't put posture into certificates. > Certificates > > are long-lived and posture is short-lived. > > > > John Vollbrecht - The problem with the current tunneled EAP > methods is > > that they are not well defined and documented. Getting standards for > > those is therefore important > > > > Elwyn Davies - The integrity of the client posture is important for > > the total solution, Are you going to work on this? > > Steve Hanna - This is the classic "lying client" problem. A > > compromised client can lie and say it's totally healthy. There are > > ways to mitigate this risk using a trusted software kernel > or trusted > > hardware. But the NEA architecture is useful even if you don't solve > > the lying client problem. It helps keep honest clients healthy, thus > > reducing the risk of infection. You can think of that as an > > immunization program. But no, we won't work on solving the lying > > client problem. That can be done as an add-on to NEA. > > > > Amardeep Sibia - I'd like to reiterate that this is a very important > > problem in the enterprise. I'd also like to raise another > issue. Some > > clients may not have an agent. That needs to be addressed as well. > > > > Pasi Eronen - The problem statement would benefit from additional > > discussion on what interoperability means. Ideally, posture > collectors > > and validators from different vendors should be interoperable. But > > there's still value in standardization even if posture > attributes are > > proprietary. > > > > Unknown Person - The Trusted Computing Group has been > already working > > on this and has published several standards. You should > look at them. > > > > Stefan Santesson - Certificates don't need to be > long-lived. They can > > be short-lived. Also, certificates can be used with IPSec, TLS, etc. > > > > Pasi Eronen - A certificate would work if this was one way > information > > only. But it will not work for two way communication. > > > > Uri Blumenthal - A statement of health could be used in a > certificate. > > I want collectors and validators from different vendors to > > interoperate. > > > > Vidya or Tatiana of Qualcomm - Clarifies previous comment on > > certificates. My point is that limiting NEA to a specific set of EAP > > methods is overly limiting. > > Steve Hanna - User authentication can use any EAP method if > you run it > > in a tunneled EAP method with an EAP method that carries posture. > > > > Thomas Narten - What's the client model? Will code for this ship in > > the operating system? > > Susan Thomson - An operating system could ship with a default policy > > of what it collects, but it's expected that most > enterprises will want > > to have their own policy. > > > > Bob Hinden - This is a big problem, I'm not sure you understand it, > > and it's awfully complicated to get all the applications to support > > this. Anyway, it doesn't solve the problem. People who hack systems > > are very sophisticated. If you build this, they will just figure out > > how to subvert it. > > > > Steve Hanna - A trusted kernel or trusted hardware can make it much > > harder to subvert the system. And even if some attacks are > successful, > > the health of endpoints will be improved overall. Security is not > > absolute. This is a big improvement. > > > > Susan Thomson - Information from other systems (like IDS) can be > > provide additional information beyond what the endpoint provides. > > > > Sean Conry -The lying client problem is manageable. As my > father used > > to say, locks keep honest people honest. > > > > Bernard Aboba - Creating yet another EAP method doesn't make any > > sense. You should move one layer up and use IP. > > > > Steve Hanna - Runs through NEA Charter slides. Any > comments? Questions? > > > > Unknown Person (Paul?) - How far up in the NEA architecture > should we > > go? Where is the cut line? > > > > Sam Hartman - I believe this should be a Security area working group > > not an Internet area one. If you don't have some > standardization of PA > > (at least a mandatory to implement minimum), then you won't have > > end-to-end interoperability so you won't meet the explicit IESG > > requirements. RADIUS is only one deployment scenario. You should be > > clear about when you're talking about EAP and when you're talking > > about RADIUS. They are separate. > > > > Paul Hoffman - A lot of work has been done in other groups. > How do we > > pull in other vendors? > > Steve Hanna - Folks from TCG and Cisco are co-chairing this BOF. > > And there are a lot of major vendors in this room. I hope we'll > > get good participation. > > > > Stefan Santesson - Focusing this on EAP/Radius is wrong and the wg > > should not be chartered around this. > > > > Sam Hartman - Looks like we are rat holing on this. > > > > Margaret Wasserman - What problem are we trying to solve? The client > > might be completely unhealthy and lie about its state. > > > > Sam - NEA is definitely useful. I'd like to have the network inform > > me about new patches and offer to quarantine me to get > them. And this > > is especially useful for inexperienced users. > > > > Jari Arkko - Yes, this is useful, but the charter isn't > ready yet. We > > should agree on requirements first. > > > > Thomas Hardjono - How about a common standard for Posture > Attributes? > > > > Sam Hartman - You need to be clear on how you want to achieve > > interoperability. > > > > Paul Hoffman - People are confusing format and protocols. Some see > > value in standardizing formats and some in standardizing protocols, > > some in both things. Instead of protocols, maybe we need to > work with > > formats. > > > > Steve Hanna - I think I hear a consensus that the posture attribute > > (PA) protocol should be included in our scope. Is there consensus > > around that? > > > > Joe Tardo - Yes. Speaks in favor of standardization of PA. > > > > Steve Hanna takes a hum poll on whether standardization of Posture > > Attribute should be in. Poll is unanimous. Posture > Attribute protocol > > should be in. > > > > Uri Blumenthal - PV is necessary in addition to PA. > > > > Paul Hoffman - Standardization of protocol between server broker and > > network access authority should also be considered. > > > > Uri Blumenthal - All the interfaces in the architecture > diagram should > > be standardized. > > > > Steve Hanna - We don't need that for client server interoperability, > > which I have heard is the highest priority. > > > > Mark Townsley - Is PV a protocol or an API? > > > > Susan Thomson - In some existing architectures, it's a protocol. In > > others, it's an API. > > > > Uri Blumenthal - PV is necessary for a multi vendor solution. > > > > Steve takes hum poll on which protocols should be > standardized as part > > of NEA charter: > > > > Posture Validation protocol - Clear majority in favor > > Interface Posture collectors and client broker - Uncertain > > Client broker and network access requestor - Clear > majority opposed > > Server broker and network access authority - Uncertain > > > > Amardeep Sibia - I have a point to make on the problem statement. We > > should support endpoints that don't have agents. That's very > > important. > > > > Unknown Person - We should focus on the new work (PA, PV, etc.) that > > drives the rest of the protocols. > > > > Mark Townsley - Do we need to work on the yellow box (EAP & > RADIUS) or > > might it be better to move up the stack? > > > > Stefan Santesson - Focusing on EAP/Radius may not be the > right thing. > > > > Uri Blumenthal - We should just do requirements for the yellow box. > > > > Hao Zhu - We should define the requirements for the yellow box. > > > > Unknown Person - I want to provide some clarification on the EAP > > tunneling method. No wg is working on this right now. > > > > Amardeep Sibia - The yellow box is most important for > > interoperability. We do care about PA format as well. > > > > Consensus check questions for group (hum poll) > > > > Do you understand the problem? Yes > > Do you think it's an important problem? Yes > > Is it important and solvable? Yes > > Is there interest in forming a WG to solve this problem? There is > > some interest, but the results are not conclusive. > > Are you willing participate as a reviewer? About a dozen people > > held up their hands. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nea mailing list > > Nea@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > > > > > ********************************************** > The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org > > Barcelona 2005 Global IPv6 Summit > Slides available at: > http://www.ipv6-es.com > > This electronic message contains information which may be > privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be > for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not > the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, > distribution or use of the contents of this information, > including attached files, is prohibited. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nea mailing list > Nea@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea > _______________________________________________ Nea mailing list Nea@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nea