Hello Anna,

I am Miguel Par=C3=ADs= from Kurento.org.

First of all, thanks for the work doing wit= h these minutes.

In the line where you mention me, a see that = you lost my surname probably because I said it too fast:
Miguel...?: Do you have a test for ver= y low frame rates? It's another different situation

In ad= dition, where I can find the video recorded of the meeting?

<= /div>

Thanks!!

2016-04-= 12 15:08 GMT+02:00 Anna Brunstrom <anna.brunstrom@kau.se>:

Dear all,

Draft minutes from the rmcat session at ietf95 in BA are available in Ether= pad at http://ether= pad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-95-rmcat?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue. = Please check that your comments and questions are accurately captured and a= dd any corrections/updates.

Many thanks to Brian for taking the notes!

Thanks,
Anna & Martin

Miguel Par=C3=ADs D=C3=ADaz
-------------------= -----------------------------------------------------
Computer/Software = engineer.
Researcher and architect in http://www.kurento.org
http://twitter.com/mparisdiaz
----= --------------------------------------------------------------------

--089e0149503a2885820530623154-- From nobody Wed Apr 13 12:36:35 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998D312E081 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:36:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OKy0L5WWwfdH for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x236.google.com (mail-ig0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF53A12E045 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ig0-x236.google.com with SMTP id g8so69740079igr.0 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:36:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=cDcYuirV8nJHo5iXRXc7qq/i/m2/LijF9kQC9aQvMwM=; b=IY7ySSbCERwRXPN44X6r8MESxAir0SDokoV+N4VXEOMIdx16PJK0Tq7v79MEuIxQki pnUrxtska8uUktCT0jf2vqg2+c+fDq7q9IJZoG8Idt2+8drEHI6ZbI3DYH8klvD6xQYD kZrw1G9unF9cei0Qx+64VBepIQyGVILFaiMQbYmNF1W7ZxLs6MP1+M740pR8xMQuwhuB RwVemV+rac5z7F5lybXasR3LGuE3EnOKdqVZHMpDmnkblPABCH3LfHc/Oo9yQOTd9fDF 1dBCq1WXR4MhuOpxmBl6etpQgOQVEKz7r1MJ/C6/dQ0ocstfO2ZTHAXf0RmtWo2O/Dt+ hqCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=cDcYuirV8nJHo5iXRXc7qq/i/m2/LijF9kQC9aQvMwM=; b=EfWgeD4teTMn8pwszbiHwFHKPsu4nBZpo0rpggOTnW7auwvEglc/lwqO9JuL6qpHTn MQSLG1M/k8Ys9EgKQFgojLSZfU3DeMqJ+q4YaF19EASw+Dlp++stHpezP7AS60psodpZ Cmk6uyCeS1noTrEMNXb/K2ttHKt01H1nwO8DrveFtAw1GifjTnRs66RmaEQbIHynQRIw DAa3GNvja2np+9Bl5kCYVkg+pht1PLU92LgjhONUBu2lgWGdY8+U/bNkKMmJM4uw2Yje /wwMpUW5P2p3rV3GmmZIMGXdLiziRLRBzzzK/MywoLN7RUgtO7aw5eTorypNcOAoNnFh Qz4g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FVTUlXN19wsOK/TmmsCmXzZsJpFV5ZBAgfhxc0ZG6UBrmlmAZM5PutQZ9ljng+OYjeNak54Ei9uwh3yjA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.41.226 with SMTP id i2mr8230852igl.33.1460576189915; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.73.41 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:36:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC0906@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC10BF@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC1402@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se>

Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 21:36:29 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Miguel_Par=C3=ADs_D=C3=ADaz?= To: Ingemar Johansson S Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4e9ff8f9f7c036053062e481 Archived-At: Cc: "randell-ietf@jesup.org" , "rmcat@ietf.org" , =?UTF-8?Q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= , "stefan@webrtc.org" , Sergio Mena Subject: Re: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:36:33 -0000 --e0cb4e9ff8f9f7c036053062e481 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everybody, I am happy of seeing that you are working in this case :D. We worked with a client that wanted to do screensharing with very low frame rate (1-5 fps) but with very high quality for 4K screen size. With this requirements we got some huge video frames (typically when screen changed a lot) that produced peaks of ~1000 RTP packets. In our case, the Media Server tried to send all packets as soon as possible, so the packets were lost in the own UDP stack (I think that in the ring buffer). To fix this a kind of shaping is needed. Taking into account this experience, I though that this shaping should be done by the Congestion Control (if there is Congestion Control) or for a basic shaping mechanism based on heuristics (if there is NOT Congestion Control). Because of this, I exposed this situation the last week in the RMCAT meeting of the IETF 95. I hope this info help you to improve your testbed, although it seems that the model suggested by Stefan and the graphs showed by Ingemar. are very similar with the problem that I tell you. To conclude, will this be taken into account in the GCC algorithm for the Chrome WebRTC implementation? Best regards!! 2016-04-13 20:19 GMT+02:00 Ingemar Johansson S < ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>: > You mean like the test cases with competing traffic? Can give it a try. > The bottleneck BW is of course higher in this cases > Ingemar > > Skickat fr=C3=A5n min iPhone > > > 13 apr. 2016 kl. 18:59 skrev Mirja K=C3=BChlewind < > mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>: > > > > Thanks. Could you try the same thing with TCP cross traffic=E2=80=A6? > > > > Mirja > > > > > >> Am 07.04.2016 um 14:43 schrieb Ingemar Johansson S < > ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>: > >> > >> Did a quick shot where I created a frame size trace according to the > guidelines below , the probability of a large frame is 0.05. > >> > >> The bottleneck BW is limited to 500kbps, RTT=3D100ms > >> > >> Please see attached png. > >> I did not optimize SCReAM for this, there is a possibility that one > need to turn off the feature that clears the transmit queue if it becomes > too large, this feature can then be defined as optional on a SCReAM-strea= m > level. > >> Another observation is that CWND is estimated too high between ~12 and > 40s. So there is probably room for improvement but at least it does not > break down. > >> > >> I also attached the frame size trace, realize that the 1st frame shoul= d > probably be large. > >> > >> /Ingemar > >> > >> > >> From: Stefan Holmer [mailto:stefan@webrtc.org] > >> Sent: den 7 april 2016 12:59 > >> To: Ingemar Johansson S; randell-ietf@jesup.org > >> Cc: rmcat@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: Live slide show modeling > >> > >> Right. My experience is that during the periods of static content, the > congestion controller may run into problems due to being rate limited and > network jitter. Once it's time to transmit a huge frame the rate/cwnd is > very low and it takes several seconds to send the frame even though the > connection is typically good. > >> > >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:54 AM Ingemar Johansson S < > ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> Hi > >> > >> Ok, thanks, I assume that rate adaptation is not really applicable her= e > ?. Instead it is more a task to verify that the congestion control does n= ot > transmit more than what fits in the bottleneck, to avoid excess packet > drops or delay ? > >> > >> /Ingemar > >> > >> From: Stefan Holmer [mailto:stefan@webrtc.org] > >> Sent: den 7 april 2016 10:27 > >> To: Ingemar Johansson S; Randell Jesup (randell-ietf@jesup.org) > >> Cc: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) > >> Subject: Re: Live slide show modeling > >> > >> I'd model it as a low framerate (~5 fps) stream, where with some > probability (maybe between 0.005 and 0.05) a frame is large due to a slid= e > change (say 50-400 packets). In between slide changes the frames can be > compressed to a single packet. > >> > >> /Stefan > >> > >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:39 AM Ingemar Johansson S < > ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> Hi > >> Do you have a reasonably rough idea of how to model the transmission o= f > a live slide show. > >> I can, from the discussion on the chat, imagine something like > >> > >> Frame period : 1s, or 5s, something else ? > >> Frame size : ? a 1920x1080 jpg compressed image is something like 500+ > kB ? > >> > >> /Ingemar > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> Ingemar Johansson M.Sc. > >> Master Researcher > >> > >> Ericsson AB > >> Wireless Access Networks > >> Labratoriegr=C3=A4nd 11 > >> 971 28, Lule=C3=A5, Sweden > >> Phone +46-1071 43042 > >> SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 > >> ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com > >> www.ericsson.com > >> > >> This report, by it=C2=B4s very length, > >> defends itself against the risk of being read > >> Winston Churchill > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> > >> > > > > --=20 Miguel Par=C3=ADs D=C3=ADaz ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Computer/Software engineer. Researcher and architect in http://www.kurento.org http://twitter.com/mparisdiaz ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --e0cb4e9ff8f9f7c036053062e481 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello everybody,

I = am happy of seeing that you are working in this case :D.

We worked with a client that wanted to do screensharing with very low fram= e rate (1-5 fps) but with very high quality for 4K screen size. With this r= equirements we got some huge video frames (typically when screen changed a = lot) that produced peaks of ~1000 RTP packets.

In our case, the Me= dia Server tried to send all packets as soon as possible, so the packets we= re lost in the own UDP stack (I think that in the ring buffer). To fix this= a kind of shaping is needed.

Taking into account this experie= nce, I though that this shaping should be done by the Congestion Control (i= f there is Congestion Control) or for a basic shaping mechanism based on he= uristics (if there is NOT Congestion Control). Because of this, I exposed t= his situation the last week in the RMCAT meeting of the IETF 95.

I hope this info help you to improve your testbed, although it seem= s that the model suggested by Stefan and the graphs showed by Ingemar. are = very similar with the problem that I tell you.

To conclud= e, will this be taken into account in the GCC algorithm for the Chrome WebR= TC implementation?

Best regards!!

2016-04-13 20:19 GMT+02:00 = Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com&g= t;:

You mean like the test cases w= ith competing traffic? Can give it a try. The bottleneck BW is of course hi= gher in this cases
Ingemar

Skickat fr=C3=A5n min iPhone

> 13 apr. 2016 kl. 18:59 skrev Mirja K=C3=BChlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>:=
>
> Thanks. Could you try the same thing with TCP cross traffic=E2=80=A6?<= br> >
> Mirja
>
>
>> Am 07.04.2016 um 14:43 schrieb Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>:
>>
>> Did a quick shot where I created a frame size trace according to t= he guidelines below , the probability of a large frame is 0.05.
>>
>> The bottleneck BW is limited to 500kbps, RTT=3D100ms
>>
>> Please see attached png.
>> I did not optimize SCReAM for this, there is a possibility that on= e need to turn off the feature that clears the transmit queue if it becomes= too large, this feature can then be defined as optional on a SCReAM-stream= level.
>> Another observation is that CWND is estimated too high between ~12= and 40s. So there is probably room for improvement but at least it does no= t break down.
>>
>> I also attached the frame size trace, realize that the 1st frame s= hould probably be large.
>>
>> /Ingemar
>>
>>
>> From: Stefan Holmer [mailto:s= tefan@webrtc.org]
>> Sent: den 7 april 2016 12:59
>> To: Ingemar Johansson S; randell-ietf@jesup.org
>> Cc: rmcat@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: Live slide show modeling
>>
>> Right. My experience is that during the periods of static content,= the congestion controller may run into problems due to being rate limited = and network jitter. Once it's time to transmit a huge frame the rate/cw= nd is very low and it takes several seconds to send the frame even though t= he connection is typically good.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:54 AM Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com<= /a>> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Ok, thanks, I assume that rate adaptation is not really applicable= here ?. Instead it is more a task to verify that the congestion control do= es not transmit more than what fits in the bottleneck, to avoid excess pack= et drops or delay ?
>>
>> /Ingemar
>>
>> From: Stefan Holmer [mailto:s= tefan@webrtc.org]
>> Sent: den 7 april 2016 10:27
>> To: Ingemar Johansson S; Randell Jesup (randell-ietf@jesup.org)
>> Cc: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org= )
>> Subject: Re: Live slide show modeling
>>
>> I'd model it as a low framerate (~5 fps) stream, where with so= me probability (maybe between 0.005 and 0.05) a frame is large due to a sli= de change (say 50-400 packets). In between slide changes the frames can be = compressed to a single packet.
>>
>> /Stefan
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:39 AM Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> wrote:
>> Hi
>> Do you have a reasonably rough idea of how to model the transmissi= on of a live slide show.
>> I can, from the discussion on the chat, imagine something like
>>
>> Frame period : 1s, or 5s, something else ?
>> Frame size : ? a 1920x1080 jpg compressed image is something like = 500+ kB ?
>>
>> /Ingemar
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> Ingemar Johansson=C2=A0 M.Sc.
>> Master Researcher
>>
>> Ericsson AB
>> Wireless Access Networks
>> Labratoriegr=C3=A4nd 11
>> 971 28, Lule=C3=A5, Sweden
>> Phone +4= 6-1071 43042
>> SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289
>> ingemar.s.joha= nsson@ericsson.com
>> www.ericsson.com
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This report, by it=C2=B4s = very length,
>> defends itself against the risk of being read
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Winston Churchill
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>
>> <slide_show_scream.png><size.txt>
>

Miguel Par=C3=ADs D=C3=ADaz
------= ------------------------------------------------------------------
Compu= ter/Software engineer.
Researcher and architect in http://www.kurento.org
http://twitter.com/mparisdia= z
------------------------------------------------------------------= ------

--e0cb4e9ff8f9f7c036053062e481-- From nobody Wed Apr 13 23:36:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F87F12E6C9 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 23:36:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DC_PNG_UNO_LARGO=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OH1LXF1OU3R3 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 23:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A97B12E6D0 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 23:36:46 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79d86d0000062a1-f8-570f3a7c2a89 Received: from ESESSHC017.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.69]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id E5.CA.25249.C7A3F075; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:36:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.173]) by ESESSHC017.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.69]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:36:34 +0200 From: Ingemar Johansson S To: "mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch" Thread-Topic: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling Thread-Index: AdGQlrkxK5Uj0F6AT365ZSZgnRyHlv///4OA///GufCAAGO6gP//0Q9AgAoBzAD//wKLYA== Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 06:36:34 +0000 Message-ID: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC7217@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC0906@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC10BF@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC1402@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.17] Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F3_01D19628.C0650840" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupgleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbHdVbfGij/cYP9/Q4sNq6ewWJzdlmWx +uYHNos107+xW3QdPMXswOox5fdGVo8lS34yeXxYvo7N49iHr2wev/ctYgtgjeKySUnNySxL LdK3S+DKuPbdumD6cqaK4/M+MzUwrprB1MXIySEhYCJx9dVPdghbTOLCvfVsXYxcHEICRxgl zk3pY4ZwljBKnJ33ghGkik3ARmLloe9gtoiAu8SMyZOZQIqYBZ4xSvw7dRKog4NDWEBX4sk7 T4gaPYlPM7+yQNhhEqdePAKzWQRUJbofNIHZvAK+EpMmTWSFWDabWWLup41gczgFnCQO9JaB 1DAKyErc/34PrJ5ZQFzi1pP5UB+ISDy8eJoNwhaVePn4HytIq4SAosTyfjmI03oZJb6/eMUG sUtQ4uTMJywTGEVnIRk1C1ndLCR1EEWhEv/mHmaGsLUleh+2MsLYyxa+horbShyfs5QdwlaU mNL9EMr2lOj4+o0NwraWmPHrIBumGlOJ10c/Mi5g5FnFKFqcWpyUm25kpJdalJlcXJyfp5eX WrKJEZgmDm75bbCD8eVzx0OMAhyMSjy8CQ94w4VYE8uKK3MPMaoAzXm0YfUFRimWvPy8VCUR 3jBz/nAh3pTEyqrUovz4otKc1OJDjNIcLErivNmR/8KEBNITS1KzU1MLUotgskwcnFINjImR V1WuZ3sdidYSVlaqNJi/pbzhEe+uZss9G7li3mfnLZix3Gnfj9/XfFtvu7ZXu4mVKUy4nSy1 ZtbVxzWTA0NFe1RDs3TmsX7jnsY4JW9tqtVUjlNzXbeuSNZjMpqp+OPQMmdbxYhjd5peGOVq Zn5dtn771qsr3J0S3nismbj704uEmBP+EkosxRmJhlrMRcWJACtecNkbAwAA Archived-At: Cc: "randell-ietf@jesup.org" , "rmcat@ietf.org" , Ingemar Johansson S , "stefan@webrtc.org" , "semena@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 06:36:49 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_07F3_01D19628.C0650840 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_07F4_01D19628.C0650840" ------=_NextPart_001_07F4_01D19628.C0650840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Attached an example with Test case 5.1 The bottleneck BW is 2Mbps, = RTT=3D100ms. Not completely a walk in the park, the problem in SCReAM is that the = congestion window validation starts to limit the congestion window too = much and that leaved me with frames delays of 2seconds for the larger = frames. Added a small fix that disables congestion window validation = when competing TCP is detected. The result is shown in the attached = graph. As one can see it works quite OK. I believe that the fix can be replaced with something smarter though but = need to leave that to later.=20 And... thanks Mirja for all the help and input to especially the SCReAM = work in your WG chair position. /Ingemar=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mirja K=C3=BChlewind [mailto:mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch] > Sent: den 13 april 2016 19:00 > To: Ingemar Johansson S > Cc: stefan@webrtc.org; randell-ietf@jesup.org; rmcat@ietf.org; Sergio = Mena > Subject: Re: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling >=20 > Thanks. Could you try the same thing with TCP cross traffic=E2=80=A6? >=20 > Mirja >=20 >=20 > > Am 07.04.2016 um 14:43 schrieb Ingemar Johansson S > : > > > > Did a quick shot where I created a frame size trace according to the > guidelines below , the probability of a large frame is 0.05. > > > > The bottleneck BW is limited to 500kbps, RTT=3D100ms > > > > Please see attached png. > > I did not optimize SCReAM for this, there is a possibility that one = need to > turn off the feature that clears the transmit queue if it becomes too = large, > this feature can then be defined as optional on a SCReAM-stream level. > > Another observation is that CWND is estimated too high between ~12 = and > 40s. So there is probably room for improvement but at least it does = not break > down. > > > > I also attached the frame size trace, realize that the 1st frame = should > probably be large. > > > > /Ingemar > > > > > > From: Stefan Holmer [mailto:stefan@webrtc.org] > > Sent: den 7 april 2016 12:59 > > To: Ingemar Johansson S; randell-ietf@jesup.org > > Cc: rmcat@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: Live slide show modeling > > > > Right. My experience is that during the periods of static content, = the > congestion controller may run into problems due to being rate limited = and > network jitter. Once it's time to transmit a huge frame the rate/cwnd = is very > low and it takes several seconds to send the frame even though the > connection is typically good. > > > > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:54 AM Ingemar Johansson S > wrote: > > Hi > > > > Ok, thanks, I assume that rate adaptation is not really applicable = here ?. > Instead it is more a task to verify that the congestion control does = not > transmit more than what fits in the bottleneck, to avoid excess packet = drops > or delay ? > > > > /Ingemar > > > > From: Stefan Holmer [mailto:stefan@webrtc.org] > > Sent: den 7 april 2016 10:27 > > To: Ingemar Johansson S; Randell Jesup (randell-ietf@jesup.org) > > Cc: rmcat WG (rmcat@ietf.org) > > Subject: Re: Live slide show modeling > > > > I'd model it as a low framerate (~5 fps) stream, where with some > probability (maybe between 0.005 and 0.05) a frame is large due to a = slide > change (say 50-400 packets). In between slide changes the frames can = be > compressed to a single packet. > > > > /Stefan > > > > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:39 AM Ingemar Johansson S > wrote: > > Hi > > Do you have a reasonably rough idea of how to model the transmission = of a > live slide show. > > I can, from the discussion on the chat, imagine something like > > > > Frame period : 1s, or 5s, something else ? > > Frame size : ? a 1920x1080 jpg compressed image is something like = 500+ kB > ? > > > > /Ingemar > > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Ingemar Johansson M.Sc. > > Master Researcher > > > > Ericsson AB > > Wireless Access Networks > > Labratoriegr=C3=A4nd 11 > > 971 28, Lule=C3=A5, Sweden > > Phone +46-1071 43042 > > SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 > > ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com > > www.ericsson.com > > > > This report, by it=C2=B4s very length, defends itself = against > > the risk of being read > > Winston Churchill > > = 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relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8FFCF20583 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 06:46:39 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: wwwh|x-authuser|randell@jesup.org Received: from r2-chicago.webserversystems.com (r2-chicago.webserversystems.com [10.27.143.200]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.6.11); Thu, 14 Apr 2016 06:46:40 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: wwwh|x-authuser|randell@jesup.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: wwwh X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1460616399793:2658558372 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1460616399792 Received: from pool-71-162-135-19.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.135.19]:56173 helo=[192.168.1.12]) by r2-chicago.webserversystems.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aqb30-0009aA-LO for rmcat@ietf.org; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 01:46:38 -0500 References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC0906@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC10BF@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC1402@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC33A1@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <570BD9B9.6040900@jesup.org> To: rmcat@ietf.org From: Randell Jesup Message-ID: <570F3C1E.5050200@jesup.org> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:43:42 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <570BD9B9.6040900@jesup.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040005020206090308090907" X-AuthUser: randell@jesup.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 06:46:43 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040005020206090308090907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 4/11/2016 1:07 PM, Randell Jesup wrote: > The concern (as Stefan indicated) is the the lack of large traffic > inbetween slides means the bitrate estimates may either a) decay, > causing very slow sending of the large slide-changes as it tries to > adapt up, or b) become out-of-date/too-high, which may lead to > congestion/delay or loss when sending a large slide-change. > > Similar issues can occur (or worse) coming off-mute. In neither case > do you want a lot of delay and dropped frames trying to get "back to > speed" (or to get the slide you're talking about out, especially if > it's not a cut, but is a wipe - that would be horrible if the > send-rate decays like Stefan indicated). > > Fundamentally, inbetween frames uncertainty about bitrate available > increases. Doesn't mean we have less, but our info becomes dated and > less reliable. Similarly, a series of > smaller-than-available-bandwidth frames allows uncertainly to > increase, though not as much (you get a lower bound). So on a spike (frame-change), we'll see a lot of traffic. On the first, we'll adapt up, though unclear how far before it stops or drops to slow/small deltas. Now uncertainty builds. a) Physical conditions change (link quality, routing, wifi interference, etc) b) cross traffic may come - or go. c) we're not using the bandwidth; other traffic may adapt up to take it. We can a) maintain the last estimate if the actual value can't be known (haven't sent, or haven't filled the buckets due to small/slow delta frames), b) decay the estimate back down towards 0 (TCP-ish IIRC), or c) decay the estimate to a lesser extent, and cut/ramp in start-of-stream adjustments when we challenge the limits again. I.e. if we were sending 4K frames (8Mbit? 12?) at 4Mbps, and then dropped to 1 5Kbit frame every second, then send another 4K frame (BIG). We could send at 4Mbps (last estimate), start at the min rate we use (fully-decayed), or inbetween (some heuristic about max decay - 1/4 or 1/3 or 1/2 last rate, perhaps). Independently, we can (and perhaps should) turn on start-of-stream heuristics in cases like this (i.e. faster adaptation up (or down), un-learning various aspects (highest 'good' rate, etc). The answer might vary depending on the candidate algorithm, but my suggestion generally would be to cut to a 1/3 or 1/2 last-known, and do start-of-stream fast adaptation (perhaps even faster up to the 'old' limit - in a large class of applications, the limit either is a local link bottleneck at one end or the other, or it's hitting the max data-available rate (i.e. we didn't actually find a limit - think a lan, or a slideshare when on FiOS at both ends). BTW, that might also speak to another variable to include when deciding what to do after uncertainty - if we never found a top limit before, perhaps don't decay (but still turn on fast adaptation). Fun.... > > If I were designing the algorithms ;-), I'd include an uncertainty > factor/state based on time since we tested/hit an upper limit (and > something equivalent for lower). When we don't send for a while, I'd > assume the upper limit is more uncertain, but would *not* decay our > estimate. I would factor this into our reaction to delay or lack of > delay when we do send - if we're uncertain, and then start pushing and > see delay, I'd back off faster and further than if we'd been pretty > certain of the current delay - much like at startup, which is another > form of "uncertain" (especially if you base the initial bitrate on > previous initial bitrates). > > IMHO. I think some of the requirements touch on these factors; > certainly some along the process did. -- Randell Jesup -- rjesup a t mozilla d o t com Please please please don't email randell-ietf@jesup.org! Way too much spam --------------040005020206090308090907 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 4/11/2016 1:07 PM, Randell Jesup wrote:

The concern (as Stefan indicated) is the the lack of large traffic inbetween slides means the bitrate estimates may either a) decay, causing very slow sending of the large slide-changes as it tries to adapt up, or b) become out-of-date/too-high, which may lead to congestion/delay or loss when sending a large slide-change.

Similar issues can occur (or worse) coming off-mute.=C2=A0 In neith= er case do you want a lot of delay and dropped frames trying to get "back to speed" (or to get the slide you're talking about out, especially if it's not a cut, but is a wipe - that would be horrible if the send-rate decays like Stefan indicated).

Fundamentally, inbetween frames uncertainty about bitrate available increases.=C2=A0 Doesn't mean we have less, but our info becomes dated and less reliable.=C2=A0 Similarly, a series of smaller-than-available-bandwidth frames allows uncertainly to increase, though not as much (you get a lower bound).

So on a spike (frame-change), we'll see a lot of traffic.=C2=A0 On th= e first, we'll adapt up, though unclear how far before it stops or drops to slow/small deltas.=C2=A0 Now uncertainty builds.=C2=A0 a) Ph= ysical conditions change (link quality, routing, wifi interference, etc) b) cross traffic may come - or go.=C2=A0 c) we're not using the bandwidt= h; other traffic may adapt up to take it.

We can a) maintain the last estimate if the actual value can't be known (haven't sent, or haven't filled the buckets due to small/slow delta frames), b) decay the estimate back down towards 0 (TCP-ish IIRC), or c) decay the estimate to a lesser extent, and cut/ramp in start-of-stream adjustments when we challenge the limits again.=C2=A0=

I.e. if we were sending 4K frames (8Mbit?=C2=A0 12?) at 4Mbps, and th= en dropped to 1 5Kbit frame every second, then send another 4K frame (BIG).=C2=A0 We could send at 4Mbps (last estimate), start at the min rate we use (fully-decayed), or inbetween (some heuristic about max decay - 1/4 or 1/3 or 1/2 last rate, perhaps).=C2=A0 Independently, w= e can (and perhaps should) turn on start-of-stream heuristics in cases like this (i.e. faster adaptation up (or down), un-learning various aspects (highest 'good' rate, etc).

The answer might vary depending on the candidate algorithm, but my suggestion generally would be to cut to a 1/3 or 1/2 last-known, and do start-of-stream fast adaptation (perhaps even faster up to the 'old' limit - in a large class of applications, the limit either is a local link bottleneck at one end or the other, or it's hitting the max data-available rate (i.e. we didn't actually find a limit - think a lan, or a slideshare when on FiOS at both ends).=C2=A0=C2=A0 = BTW, that might also speak to another variable to include when deciding what to do after uncertainty - if we never found a top limit before, perhaps don't decay (but still turn on fast adaptation).

Fun....

If I were designing the algorithms ;-), I'd include an uncertainty factor/state based on time since we tested/hit an upper limit (and something equivalent for lower).=C2=A0 When we don't send for a whi= le, I'd assume the upper limit is more uncertain, but would *not* decay our estimate.=C2=A0 I would factor this into our reaction to delay or lack of delay when we do send - if we're uncertain, and then start pushing and see delay, I'd back off faster and further than if we'd been pretty certain of the current delay - much like at startup, which is another form of "uncertain" (especially if you base the initial bitrate on previous initial bitrates).

IMHO.=C2=A0 I think some of the requirements touch on these factors= ; certainly some along the process did.

--=20
Randell Jesup -- rjesup a t mozilla d o t com
Please please please don't email randell-ietf@jesup.org!  Way too=
 much spam

--------------040005020206090308090907-- From nobody Thu Apr 14 02:19:03 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC55812D9CB for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:19:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pZsvUIoN46d4 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:18:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch (smtp.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.219]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BDD112D619 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E5EAD9310; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:18:56 +0200 (MEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new on smtp.ee.ethz.ch Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id pNATDfn0kdoU; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:18:56 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.168.178.33] (p5DEC2FCB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.236.47.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mirjak) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 065D5D9309; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:18:55 +0200 (MEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: =?utf-8?Q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= In-Reply-To: <570F3C1E.5050200@jesup.org> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:18:56 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3060BE39-8DD8-4BBC-94E2-AFAC97FC3538@tik.ee.ethz.ch> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC0906@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC10BF@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC1402@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC33A1@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <570BD9B9.6040900@jesup.org> <570F3C1E.5050200@jesup.org> To: Randell Jesup , Ingemar Johansson S X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: rmcat@ietf.org Subject: Re: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:19:02 -0000 Hi Randell, hi Ingemar, there is also a TCP mechanism that keeps the window open for = rate-limited traffic (e.g. video). Maybe it=E2=80=99s worth to have a = look at it: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7661/ Mirja > Am 14.04.2016 um 08:43 schrieb Randell Jesup : >=20 > On 4/11/2016 1:07 PM, Randell Jesup wrote: >> The concern (as Stefan indicated) is the the lack of large traffic = inbetween slides means the bitrate estimates may either a) decay, = causing very slow sending of the large slide-changes as it tries to = adapt up, or b) become out-of-date/too-high, which may lead to = congestion/delay or loss when sending a large slide-change. >>=20 >> Similar issues can occur (or worse) coming off-mute. In neither case = do you want a lot of delay and dropped frames trying to get "back to = speed" (or to get the slide you're talking about out, especially if it's = not a cut, but is a wipe - that would be horrible if the send-rate = decays like Stefan indicated). >>=20 >> Fundamentally, inbetween frames uncertainty about bitrate available = increases. Doesn't mean we have less, but our info becomes dated and = less reliable. Similarly, a series of smaller-than-available-bandwidth = frames allows uncertainly to increase, though not as much (you get a = lower bound). >=20 > So on a spike (frame-change), we'll see a lot of traffic. On the = first, we'll adapt up, though unclear how far before it stops or drops = to slow/small deltas. Now uncertainty builds. a) Physical conditions = change (link quality, routing, wifi interference, etc) b) cross traffic = may come - or go. c) we're not using the bandwidth; other traffic may = adapt up to take it. >=20 > We can a) maintain the last estimate if the actual value can't be = known (haven't sent, or haven't filled the buckets due to small/slow = delta frames), b) decay the estimate back down towards 0 (TCP-ish IIRC), = or c) decay the estimate to a lesser extent, and cut/ramp in = start-of-stream adjustments when we challenge the limits again. =20 >=20 > I.e. if we were sending 4K frames (8Mbit? 12?) at 4Mbps, and then = dropped to 1 5Kbit frame every second, then send another 4K frame (BIG). = We could send at 4Mbps (last estimate), start at the min rate we use = (fully-decayed), or inbetween (some heuristic about max decay - 1/4 or = 1/3 or 1/2 last rate, perhaps). Independently, we can (and perhaps = should) turn on start-of-stream heuristics in cases like this (i.e. = faster adaptation up (or down), un-learning various aspects (highest = 'good' rate, etc). >=20 > The answer might vary depending on the candidate algorithm, but my = suggestion generally would be to cut to a 1/3 or 1/2 last-known, and do = start-of-stream fast adaptation (perhaps even faster up to the 'old' = limit - in a large class of applications, the limit either is a local = link bottleneck at one end or the other, or it's hitting the max = data-available rate (i.e. we didn't actually find a limit - think a lan, = or a slideshare when on FiOS at both ends). BTW, that might also speak = to another variable to include when deciding what to do after = uncertainty - if we never found a top limit before, perhaps don't decay = (but still turn on fast adaptation). >=20 > Fun....=20 >=20 >>=20 >> If I were designing the algorithms ;-), I'd include an uncertainty = factor/state based on time since we tested/hit an upper limit (and = something equivalent for lower). When we don't send for a while, I'd = assume the upper limit is more uncertain, but would *not* decay our = estimate. I would factor this into our reaction to delay or lack of = delay when we do send - if we're uncertain, and then start pushing and = see delay, I'd back off faster and further than if we'd been pretty = certain of the current delay - much like at startup, which is another = form of "uncertain" (especially if you base the initial bitrate on = previous initial bitrates). >>=20 >> IMHO. I think some of the requirements touch on these factors; = certainly some along the process did. >=20 > --=20 > Randell Jesup -- rjesup a t mozilla d o t com > Please please please don't email=20 > randell-ietf@jesup.org > ! Way too much spam >=20 From nobody Thu Apr 14 04:53:28 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietf.org Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D141D12DB4E; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 04:53:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.19.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160414115325.6925.37514.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 04:53:25 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: rmcat@ietf.org Subject: [rmcat] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rmcat-coupled-cc-02.txt X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:53:26 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques of the IETF. Title : Coupled congestion control for RTP media Authors : Safiqul Islam Michael Welzl Stein Gjessing Filename : draft-ietf-rmcat-coupled-cc-02.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2016-04-14 Abstract: When multiple congestion controlled RTP sessions traverse the same network bottleneck, it can be beneficial to combine their controls such that the total on-the-wire behavior is improved. This document describes such a method for flows that have the same sender, in a way that is as flexible and simple as possible while minimizing the amount of changes needed to existing RTP applications. It specifies how to apply the method for both the NADA and Google congestion control algorithms. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-coupled-cc/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-coupled-cc-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rmcat-coupled-cc-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Apr 14 12:19:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F52B12B040 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 12:19:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QkbzdAwFeGQd for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 12:19:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91C6312D15D for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 12:19:47 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-f795d6d000004243-b3-570fed51cb5e Received: from ESESSHC022.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.84]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 01.5D.16963.15DEF075; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:19:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.173]) by ESESSHC022.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:19:44 +0200 From: Ingemar Johansson S To: =?utf-8?B?TWlyamEgS8O8aGxld2luZA==?= Thread-Topic: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling Thread-Index: AdGQlrkxK5Uj0F6AT365ZSZgnRyHlv///4OA///GufCAAGO6gP//0Q9AgACy0YD//XTlwAGhpXrnABDKaAA= Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:19:44 +0000 Message-ID: <6B38C19F-1707-4922-8459-31C636F55EDA@ericsson.com> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC0906@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC10BF@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC1402@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA43DC33A1@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <570BD9B9.6040900@jesup.org> <570F3C1E.5050200@jesup.org> <3060BE39-8DD8-4BBC-94E2-AFAC97FC3538@tik.ee.ethz.ch> In-Reply-To: <3060BE39-8DD8-4BBC-94E2-AFAC97FC3538@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: sv-SE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <14324DE4D17A3D40A3E4FEE87CECB994@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprNIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7iG7gW/5wg/a/WhYbVk9hsTi7Lcti 9c0PbA7MHkuW/GTy+LB8HZvHsQ9f2QKYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgy+pa9Yyu4pl9x9FVlA+MO vS5GTg4JAROJ33+WMkLYYhIX7q1n62Lk4hASOMIoMefNVSYIZwmjxISnjWBVbAI2EisPfQey OThEBLwkPn8KBAkzC/hKPN6yih3EFhbQlZizoo0NxBYR0JP4NPMrC4SdJHH79yUmEJtFQFXi Q/d2sDivgL3E0bl3mCF2PWKRuP59JtguTgEniWtvDrCC2IwCshL3v99jgVgmLvF57gMmiKsF JJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8jxXkNmYBTYn1u/Qhyq0lVk1fzwxhK0pM6X7IDrFXUOLkzCcsExjFZiGZ OguhexaS7llIumch6V7AyLqKUbQ4tbg4N93ISC+1KDO5uDg/Ty8vtWQTIzDKDm75bbWD8eBz x0OMAhyMSjy8CYv4w4VYE8uKK3MPMUpwMCuJ8Lq9AgrxpiRWVqUW5ccXleakFh9ilOZgURLn zYn8FyYkkJ5YkpqdmlqQWgSTZeLglGpgzHk8sUqwXS6xyGZat57Y3sSu3ZeZq//5XwxsPPl+ S/4cs9ntV9sa5nQt2vDPw1EnPtTvUEztZ7VKo+YSoYX1f23LbCs3Lgu85WPZbhfgLDOXhX+f /TMOzqnHBVlOyvg1/GWqXSuw4ajjrgnv9ioKeVlfPLPMSH//Fs/7u2OY07KOLT58NJtPiaU4 I9FQi7moOBEAJ4IkEa4CAAA= Archived-At: Cc: Randell Jesup , "rmcat@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rmcat] Live slide show modeling X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." 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YSB0IG1vemlsbGEgZCBvIHQgY29tDQo+PiBQbGVhc2UgcGxlYXNlIHBsZWFzZSBkb24ndCBlbWFp bCANCj4+IHJhbmRlbGwtaWV0ZkBqZXN1cC5vcmcNCj4+ICEgIFdheSB0b28gbXVjaCBzcGFtDQo+ PiANCj4gDQo+IA0K From nobody Sun Apr 17 14:00:29 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDB2412D52B for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:00:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rdHgPGJeHFqO for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nasse.dc.kau.se (smtp.kau.se [193.10.220.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8806F12D131 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:00:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Processed: mail.kau.se, Sun, 17 Apr 2016 23:00:16 +0200 (not processed: spam filter heuristic analysis disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 213.113.182.73 X-MDArrival-Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 23:00:16 +0200 X-Authenticated-Sender: anna.brunstrom@kau.se X-Return-Path: anna.brunstrom@kau.se X-Envelope-From: anna.brunstrom@kau.se X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rmcat@ietf.org To: rmcat@ietf.org References: <570CF352.4070905@kau.se> From: Anna Brunstrom Message-ID: <5713F961.3090402@kau.se> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 23:00:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020608020607010905090506" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rmcat] ietf95 draft meeting minutes X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:00:28 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020608020607010905090506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Miguel, Thanks for the info, I have added your surname to the minutes. You can find the recordings of all sessions from https://ietf95.conf.meetecho.com/index.php/Recordings. BR, Anna On 2016-04-13 20:46, Miguel París Díaz wrote: > Hello Anna, > I am Miguel París from Kurento.org. > > First of all, thanks for the work doing with these minutes. > > In the line where you mention me, a see that you lost my surname > probably because I said it too fast: > Miguel...?: Do you have a test for very low frame rates? It's another > different situation > > In addition, where I can find the video recorded of the meeting? > > Thanks!! > > > 2016-04-12 15:08 GMT+02:00 Anna Brunstrom >: > > Dear all, > > Draft minutes from the rmcat session at ietf95 in BA are available > in Etherpad at > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-95-rmcat?useMonospaceFont=true. > Please check that your comments and questions are accurately > captured and add any corrections/updates. > > Many thanks to Brian for taking the notes! > > Thanks, > Anna & Martin > > > > > -- > Miguel París Díaz > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Computer/Software engineer. > Researcher and architect in http://www.kurento.org > http://twitter.com/mparisdiaz > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------020608020607010905090506 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Miguel,

Thanks for the info, I have added your surname to the minutes.

You can find the recordings of all sessions from https://ietf95.conf.meetecho.com/index.php/Recordings.

BR,
Anna

On 2016-04-13 20:46, Miguel París Díaz wrote:

Hello Anna,

I am Miguel París from Kurento.org.

First of all, thanks for the work doing with these minutes.

In the line where you mention me, a see that you lost my surname probably because I said it too fast:
Miguel...?: Do you have a test for very low frame rates? It's another different situation

In addition, where I can find the video recorded of the meeting?

Thanks!!

2016-04-12 15:08 GMT+02:00 Anna Brunstrom <anna.brunstrom@kau.se>:

Dear all,

Draft minutes from the rmcat session at ietf95 in BA are available in Etherpad at http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-95-rmcat?useMonospaceFont=true. Please check that your comments and questions are accurately captured and add any corrections/updates.

Many thanks to Brian for taking the notes!

Thanks,
Anna & Martin

--

Miguel París Díaz
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer/Software engineer.
Researcher and architect in http://www.kurento.org
http://twitter.com/mparisdiaz
------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------020608020607010905090506--