From tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 24 02:48:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr77u-0006dw-Pz; Thu, 24 May 2007 02:48:46 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr77o-0006cu-Qt for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 02:48:40 -0400 Received: from mx2-n.rad.co.il ([62.0.23.221] helo=antivir2.rad.co.il) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr77l-0004Vt-Dj for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 02:48:40 -0400 Received: from exrad3.rad.co.il (HELO exrad3.ad.rad.co.il) ([192.114.24.112]) by antivir2.rad.co.il with ESMTP; 24 May 2007 09:48:34 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 09:48:33 +0300 Message-ID: <457D36D9D89B5B47BC06DA869B1C815D04156BB3@exrad3.ad.rad.co.il> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: interesting network application for timing Thread-Index: Acedz4vW+HYxyGvKR6Sh6yldv67e9w== From: "Yaakov Stein" To: X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Subject: [TICTOC] interesting network application for timing X-BeenThere: tictoc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Timing over IP Connection and Transfer of Clock BOF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1537947490==" Errors-To: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1537947490== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C79DCF.8C288A4B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C79DCF.8C288A4B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/istevent/2006/cf/document.cfm?do c_id=3D725 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C79DCF.8C288A4B Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/istevent/2006/= cf/document.cfm?doc_id=3D725

------_=_NextPart_001_01C79DCF.8C288A4B-- --===============1537947490== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ TICTOC mailing list TICTOC@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc --===============1537947490==-- From tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 24 03:11:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr7Ta-0004wN-3l; Thu, 24 May 2007 03:11:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr7TY-0004wI-NN for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 03:11:08 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr7TX-0007l7-By for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 03:11:08 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-6.cisco.com ([171.68.10.81]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 May 2007 00:11:06 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,572,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="156936098:sNHT457167339" Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (sj-core-3.cisco.com [171.68.223.137]) by sj-dkim-6.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l4O7B6ZA003014; Thu, 24 May 2007 00:11:06 -0700 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l4O7B606024041; Thu, 24 May 2007 07:11:06 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.38]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 24 May 2007 03:11:05 -0400 Received: from [10.83.1.98] ([10.83.1.98]) by xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 24 May 2007 03:11:05 -0400 Message-ID: <46553A7D.4060801@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 09:10:53 +0200 From: Mark Townsley User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yaakov Stein Subject: Re: [TICTOC] interesting network application for timing References: <457D36D9D89B5B47BC06DA869B1C815D04156BB3@exrad3.ad.rad.co.il> In-Reply-To: <457D36D9D89B5B47BC06DA869B1C815D04156BB3@exrad3.ad.rad.co.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2007 07:11:05.0389 (UTC) FILETIME=[B1BB65D0:01C79DD2] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=453; t=1179990666; x=1180854666; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim6002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=townsley@cisco.com; z=From:=20Mark=20Townsley=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[TICTOC]=20interesting=20network=20application=20for= 20timing |Sender:=20; bh=2Xrae7tMybjITLlHu5crKy4an7AyzWahrMtoh45L53I=; b=k9uIiSjQrBWqpyP2zXQte1oWldUZvZ3e/QpKTyUEbV+WjSI/JZNW/nsZG4AyywQ60QBfKs8t 84xIqTAj23SkFT8J4/ohSFTfNsSFm1rIvB6ZJioXgr7pbMtJqULFyM1d; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-6; header.From=townsley@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim6002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: tictoc@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tictoc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Timing over IP Connection and Transfer of Clock BOF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Yaakov Stein wrote: > http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/istevent/2006/cf/document.cfm?doc_id=725 Looks like the intent of this article is to promote GALILEO as a global time source, not the Internet. - Mark > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TICTOC mailing list > TICTOC@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc > _______________________________________________ TICTOC mailing list TICTOC@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc From tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 24 03:51:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr86R-00046v-TV; Thu, 24 May 2007 03:51:19 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr86Q-00045f-3f for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 03:51:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr86M-0001PH-SN for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 03:51:18 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 May 2007 03:51:13 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,572,1170651600"; d="scan'208"; a="121909022:sNHT41927488" Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l4O7pClv012832; Thu, 24 May 2007 03:51:12 -0400 Received: from stewart-bryants-computer.local (rtp-vpn3-93.cisco.com [10.82.216.93]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l4O7pB5f021285; Thu, 24 May 2007 07:51:11 GMT Message-ID: <465543ED.7010709@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 08:51:09 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Macintosh/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Townsley Subject: Re: [TICTOC] interesting network application for timing References: <457D36D9D89B5B47BC06DA869B1C815D04156BB3@exrad3.ad.rad.co.il> <46553A7D.4060801@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46553A7D.4060801@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=437; t=1179993072; x=1180857072; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=stbryant@cisco.com; z=From:=20Stewart=20Bryant=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[TICTOC]=20interesting=20network=20application=20for= 20timing |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Townsley=20; bh=hJAS2pA4F7G06FAer+ybVHlH6pZ5J+dTSsb9V6bFZ6c=; b=pt5BKy6MTDhgJxGNqGHLyN0VIdrDvPZZkmyBkFoVund5Nb0Y8gurPQQijDWop2JPMzKuNbXl fOrA6ohE3AohJXDQ7PTGjSlngvG5qVqQup30AW/mNsBmpwz/AsY79oCC; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=stbryant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: tictoc@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tictoc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: Timing over IP Connection and Transfer of Clock BOF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Mark Townsley wrote: > Yaakov Stein wrote: >> http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/istevent/2006/cf/document.cfm?doc_id=725 >> > Looks like the intent of this article is to promote GALILEO as a > global time source, not the Internet. > > - Mark .. but I thought that there was an assertion that time could make the internet work better, and that ought to be invariant with the method of time distribution. - Stewart _______________________________________________ TICTOC mailing list TICTOC@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc From tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 24 03:59:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr8EW-0002Fw-4q; Thu, 24 May 2007 03:59:40 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr8EV-0002Fr-H7 for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 03:59:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr8EU-0002q7-8i for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 03:59:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 May 2007 03:59:38 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,572,1170651600"; d="scan'208"; a="121909263:sNHT43307622" Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l4O7xbo5002261; Thu, 24 May 2007 03:59:37 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l4O7xb5f022316; Thu, 24 May 2007 07:59:37 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.21]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 24 May 2007 03:59:36 -0400 Received: from [10.83.1.98] ([10.83.1.98]) by xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 24 May 2007 03:59:36 -0400 Message-ID: <465545DC.5000209@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 09:59:24 +0200 From: Mark Townsley User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stbryant@cisco.com Subject: Re: [TICTOC] interesting network application for timing References: <457D36D9D89B5B47BC06DA869B1C815D04156BB3@exrad3.ad.rad.co.il> <46553A7D.4060801@cisco.com> <465543ED.7010709@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <465543ED.7010709@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2007 07:59:36.0431 (UTC) FILETIME=[78D927F0:01C79DD9] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=654; t=1179993577; x=1180857577; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=townsley@cisco.com; z=From:=20Mark=20Townsley=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[TICTOC]=20interesting=20network=20application=20for= 20timing |Sender:=20 |To:=20stbryant@cisco.com; bh=fL06wR23C472aNIPvsyrASKIT/hw3cvMgw6yi3406sY=; b=lOlmGdCZs2QzsQq+2a3Hs0m8pzklOwIsXOIVKNw9Oug5tk+zh/DqndTOKaT63RAl0Vdm61vf qoYkJQMEnrKrBiqQMJcN8M/Pv2Z5JNRZ+uz+D8IBkCB5iJsSsCdkYihJ; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=townsley@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: tictoc@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tictoc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Timing over IP Connection and Transfer of Clock BOF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Stewart Bryant wrote: > Mark Townsley wrote: >> Yaakov Stein wrote: >>> http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/istevent/2006/cf/document.cfm?doc_id=725 >>> >> Looks like the intent of this article is to promote GALILEO as a >> global time source, not the Internet. >> >> - Mark > .. but I thought that there was an assertion that time could make the > internet work better, and that ought to be invariant with the method > of time distribution. But if you use time distributed over the Internet to make the Internet work better, you are setting yourself up with a fairly dubious circular dependency. - Mark > > - Stewart > > _______________________________________________ TICTOC mailing list TICTOC@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc From tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 24 04:18:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr8Wl-0003V6-PJ; Thu, 24 May 2007 04:18:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr8Wj-0003Q8-Sj for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 04:18:29 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr8Wi-0000pH-Kx for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 04:18:29 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 May 2007 04:18:28 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,572,1170651600"; d="scan'208"; a="121910302:sNHT42698376" Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l4O8ISpj007893; Thu, 24 May 2007 04:18:28 -0400 Received: from stewart-bryants-computer.local (rtp-vpn3-93.cisco.com [10.82.216.93]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l4O8IQBe020498; Thu, 24 May 2007 08:18:27 GMT Message-ID: <46554A50.7080909@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 09:18:24 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Macintosh/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Townsley Subject: Re: [TICTOC] interesting network application for timing References: <457D36D9D89B5B47BC06DA869B1C815D04156BB3@exrad3.ad.rad.co.il> <46553A7D.4060801@cisco.com> <465543ED.7010709@cisco.com> <465545DC.5000209@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <465545DC.5000209@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1120; t=1179994708; x=1180858708; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=stbryant@cisco.com; z=From:=20Stewart=20Bryant=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[TICTOC]=20interesting=20network=20application=20for= 20timing |Sender:=20 |To:=20Mark=20Townsley=20; bh=cOzCZqRjNcJNE/cvMua0jkrzdLRoXr9pKXc/r5/Xpdk=; b=hAyKdSaqTdo3Dx8GGIFrDjgAGBT2tRjpfAw7wX940T/ZvARQWisw3rJH+YOCnftAiSjN2lyW jNyQH78Hz+ZnYBpAVMw4pEYSgrl4AQN9/53Zn1CmsIbHOjzXXwMo4Hxx; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=stbryant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Cc: tictoc@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tictoc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: Timing over IP Connection and Transfer of Clock BOF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Mark Townsley wrote: > Stewart Bryant wrote: >> Mark Townsley wrote: >>> Yaakov Stein wrote: >>>> http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/istevent/2006/cf/document.cfm?doc_id=725 >>>> >>> Looks like the intent of this article is to promote GALILEO as a >>> global time source, not the Internet. >>> >>> - Mark >> .. but I thought that there was an assertion that time could make the >> internet work better, and that ought to be invariant with the method >> of time distribution. > But if you use time distributed over the Internet to make the Internet > work better, you are setting yourself up with a fairly dubious > circular dependency. > > - Mark The key word is better. Provided you can operate the time system with the Internet as it is, or over new support infrastructure (for example by providing some special service to time such as packet time stamping) you can then use time to improve the quality of service received by the data traffic - assuming that you have such a method. BTW the circular dependency is no worse than you get in any bootstrap process. - Stewart _______________________________________________ TICTOC mailing list TICTOC@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc From tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 24 04:25:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr8dU-0000RY-CC; Thu, 24 May 2007 04:25:28 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr8dT-0000OU-Ce for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 04:25:27 -0400 Received: from mx2-n.rad.co.il ([62.0.23.221] helo=antivir2.rad.co.il) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr8dR-0002dt-1G for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 04:25:27 -0400 Received: from exrad3.rad.co.il (HELO exrad3.ad.rad.co.il) ([192.114.24.112]) by antivir2.rad.co.il with ESMTP; 24 May 2007 11:25:05 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [TICTOC] interesting network application for timing Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:25:01 +0300 Message-ID: <457D36D9D89B5B47BC06DA869B1C815D04156C62@exrad3.ad.rad.co.il> In-Reply-To: <465545DC.5000209@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [TICTOC] interesting network application for timing Thread-Index: Aced2Xq+UvduvRnoQz6CN1nxpZ40eAAAfY6Q From: "Yaakov Stein" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: X-BeenThere: tictoc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Timing over IP Connection and Transfer of Clock BOF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org =20 This is an networking application that needs timing. The proponents of this application did not consider tranfer of time over the network, and went for Galileo as the only solution they could think of. We can tell them otherwise. I do not see problematic circularity in the provision of time=20 over the network that will later be optimized using this time.=20 On the contrary, if the network works more deterministically then the time distribution will be better too. Y(J)S _______________________________________________ TICTOC mailing list TICTOC@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc From tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 24 05:09:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr9K6-0005lb-3K; Thu, 24 May 2007 05:09:30 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr9K5-0005lV-8z for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 05:09:29 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hr9K4-0008P2-1Z for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 05:09:29 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 May 2007 05:09:28 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,573,1170651600"; d="scan'208"; a="61066235:sNHT43513912" Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l4O99RW4001246; Thu, 24 May 2007 05:09:27 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l4O99R5f005589; Thu, 24 May 2007 09:09:27 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.21]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 24 May 2007 05:09:27 -0400 Received: from [10.83.1.98] ([10.83.1.98]) by xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 24 May 2007 05:09:26 -0400 Message-ID: <4655563B.90009@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:09:15 +0200 From: Mark Townsley User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yaakov Stein Subject: Re: [TICTOC] interesting network application for timing References: <457D36D9D89B5B47BC06DA869B1C815D04156C62@exrad3.ad.rad.co.il> In-Reply-To: <457D36D9D89B5B47BC06DA869B1C815D04156C62@exrad3.ad.rad.co.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2007 09:09:26.0998 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A9EEF60:01C79DE3] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=840; t=1179997767; x=1180861767; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=townsley@cisco.com; z=From:=20Mark=20Townsley=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[TICTOC]=20interesting=20network=20application=20for= 20timing |Sender:=20 |To:=20Yaakov=20Stein=20; bh=2Sl7h7wCRDPjHlae9Fpc3iqYyt9czpim16kbTmA/VNI=; b=mFoEQ5tZnTc6UfddFBr7Ev1b6V7LV4azBUY/CbyeAXWnr93jZOF5nzBjLjvyStMBHsSH4d9t VLbQ+k1hlNy7K2K2UgPv6av5wKACgA7gMOqJJAIZgvbPdhlGXPzrOR5V; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=townsley@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: tictoc@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tictoc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Timing over IP Connection and Transfer of Clock BOF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Yaakov Stein wrote: > > This is an networking application that needs timing. > > The proponents of this application did not consider tranfer > of time over the network, and went for Galileo as the only > solution they could think of. > > We can tell them otherwise. > Given the emphasis on a satellite network that so far only exists on paper, perhaps they don't want to know. > I do not see problematic circularity in the provision of time > over the network that will later be optimized using this time. > On the contrary, if the network works more deterministically > then the time distribution will be better too. > I think it boils down to whether you consider that time will be distributed over what is essentially a separate network from that which the data traverses. - Mark > Y(J)S > > _______________________________________________ TICTOC mailing list TICTOC@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc From tictoc-bounces@ietf.org Thu May 24 10:49:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrEdP-0004Ko-3B; Thu, 24 May 2007 10:49:47 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrEdO-0004FQ-9I for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 10:49:46 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrEdM-0008Np-SY for tictoc@ietf.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 10:49:46 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 May 2007 07:49:44 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,574,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="488212797:sNHT47824110" Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l4OEmV2b002931; Thu, 24 May 2007 07:49:44 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l4OEbdu9012625; Thu, 24 May 2007 14:40:01 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-219.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.188]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 24 May 2007 07:39:07 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [TICTOC] interesting network application for timing Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 07:36:01 -0700 Message-ID: <9FA16888AD1BF64ABCE6C2532CCEB98A02520294@xmb-sjc-219.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <465545DC.5000209@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [TICTOC] interesting network application for timing Thread-Index: Aced2X4nAG/atEz5T86qZ2eJkJNbmgANpt2g From: "Krishna Sankar \(ksankar\)" To: "Mark Townsley \(townsley\)" , "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2007 14:39:07.0852 (UTC) FILETIME=[48EDB8C0:01C79E11] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1948; t=1180018184; x=1180882184; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=ksankar@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Krishna=20Sankar=20\(ksankar\)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[TICTOC]=20interesting=20network=20application=20for= 20timing |Sender:=20; bh=O47Xk4ctUwe1BS+lHj6bMNs+dhGo1wNz8AZMqX2lUWk=; b=K9klpbJPRHU2DFpPZycXbqG8gvVhDSyTywJ6XEsna9ES2H245AmeHVNsw1QtXe/tvw5NCQxv kOh02wnmbMQWaQlpTKJNT0VOaVntLaz5K89M4FkJJrMaMBYvxCs+xjLV; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3; header.From=ksankar@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Cc: tictoc@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tictoc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Timing over IP Connection and Transfer of Clock BOF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tictoc-bounces@ietf.org IMHO, it is more of a linear dependency, moving both ways; but does have an accelerating effect due to mutual dependency. Cheers ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- | | Krishna Sankar, Distinguished Engineer :|: :|: =20 :|||: :|||: - Disruptive Technologies & Architectures ..:|||||||:.....:|||||||:.. - Security, Mobility & Integration Cisco Systems Inc - Mobile-Asymmetric-Composable-Embedded Networks (Ph) 408-853-8475 ksankar@cisco.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- "Not all those who wander are lost ..." -J.R.R.Tolkien ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Townsley (townsley)=20 > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 12:59 AM > To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant) > Cc: tictoc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [TICTOC] interesting network application for timing >=20 > Stewart Bryant wrote: > > Mark Townsley wrote: > >> Yaakov Stein wrote: > >>>=20 > http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/istevent/2006/cf/document.cf > >>> m?doc_id=3D725 > >>> > >> Looks like the intent of this article is to promote GALILEO as a=20 > >> global time source, not the Internet. > >> > >> - Mark > > .. but I thought that there was an assertion that time=20 > could make the=20 > > internet work better, and that ought to be invariant with=20 > the method=20 > > of time distribution. > But if you use time distributed over the Internet to make the=20 > Internet work better, you are setting yourself up with a=20 > fairly dubious circular dependency. >=20 > - Mark > > > > - Stewart > > > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > TICTOC mailing list > TICTOC@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc >=20 _______________________________________________ TICTOC mailing list TICTOC@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc