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From: Fred Baker <fbaker@acc.com>
Message-Id: <9304010536.AA09656@saffron.acc.com>
To: clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com, stev@ftp.com
Subject: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
Cc: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us

Minutes of the joint sessions of IPLPDN and PPPEXT Working Groups
George Clapp and Fred Baker, respective chairs
31 March 1993

The two working groups met in joint session to discuss protocol 
specifications common to both. Since the objectives and requirements of 
the two working groups differ in some key respects, there was 
considerable difference of opinion at the outset. The chairs wish to 
congratulate the various parties in the discussions on the level of 
personal restraint and professionalism displayed during the discussions.
Would that there were even more of both.

Two subjects were discussed: how to share load among a set of parallel 
links to increase apparent bandwidth and potentially reduce latency 
between two sites, and how the IPLPDN group might best avail itself of 
the facilities found in PPP negotiation.

Load Sharing:

Two proposals for load sharing were outlined. Fred Baker briefly 
reminded the group of his previous proposal to use ISO Multilink 
Procedures as described in ISO 7776 and ISO 7428. Keith Sklower 
discussed his proposal to use the existing RFC 1294 segmentation 
encapsulation to achieve traffic ordering in much the same way that 
multilink does, and provide the option of data fragmentation and 
reassembly.

The consensus of the group preferred Keith's approach, but recommended 
that two currently unused bits be assigned the purposes of the ISO 
Multilink Protocol's RESET and RESET ACKNOWLEDGE flags to facilitate 
synchronization of links when bringing them into and out of service. 
Concerns were raised about the size of the resequencing buffer, most 
especially when the link speeds are mismatched. Joel Halpern and Craig 
Fox will provide input to Keith concerning a solution to this that they 
worked out; Keith will appropriately edit his proposal for further 
discussion on the IPLPDN mailing list.

PPP Parameter Negotiation for Frame Relay:

The consensus we reached is encapsulated in the following points.

	- By default, Frame Relay services will conform to RFC 1294.
	  This implies that if two systems attempt to communicate, one
	  using RFC 1294 and the other using PPP services, the system
	  desiring PPP services will use RFC 1294 instead.

	- There may be a requirement to negotiate services in both PVC and
	  SVC environments.

	- Negotiation uses PPP negotiation frames encapsulated in a manner
	  conforming to RFC 1294.

	- The system receiving a PPP negotiation frame may choose to
	  ignore and discard it, either because the system is old or
	  because it is configured to do so. Once both systems have
	  decided to negotiate, the full PPP negotiation FSM takes effect.

	- There may be LCP Configuration Options to modify the
	  encapsulation on a virtual circuit.

	- We jointly agree to specify this.

	- The PPP encapsulations of choice are:

	First choice:	
			 5 4 3 2 1 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0
			+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
			|         Q.922 Address Field   |
			+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
			| Control Field | NLPID (TBD)   |
			+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
			|         PPP PID               |

	Second choice:	
			 5 4 3 2 1 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0
			+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
			|         Q.922 Address Field   |
			+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
			| Control Field | PAD (00)      |
			+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
			|    NLPID=80   |     OUI = 00  |
			+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
			|    OUI = 00-00                |
			+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
			|    Ethernet Packet Type TBD   |
			+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
			|         PPP PID               |

	  Use of the first encapsulation is subject to assignment of a
	  NLPID value by X3S3. Bill Simpson reports that Lyman Chapin
	  feels has assigned a block of NLPID values to the IAB for IETF
	  purposes.

	- by default, data which has an existing RFC 1294 encapsulation
	  should be encapsulated as in RFC 1294, unless the two systems
	  agree, using LCP negotiation, to use the above encapsulation for
	  data. Data which has no defined RFC 1294 encapsulation but has a
	  PPP encapsulation must use the above for data regardless of the
	  outcome of that negotiation. Data which has no defined PPP
	  encapsulation but has an RFC 1294 encapsulation must use the
	  latter regardless of the outcome of the negotiation.

	- Because it is specified in the PPP FSM, all data flow stops
	  during LCP negotiation. Data streams having PPP NCPs do not
	  restart until their PPP NCP has reached the OPEN state. Data
	  Streams not having PPP NCPs may restart upon the LCP reaching
	  the open state. As in PPP, subsequent renegotiation of an NCP
	  affects only its data.

Keith Sklower and Bill Simpson have agreed to merge their efforts and
their current proposals to implement this consensus. The output will be
discussed on the IPLPDN list.

IPLPDN and PPPEXT expect to have two joint meetings at the Amsterdam 
IETF.

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From: Oliver Korfmacher <okorf@netcs.com>
Message-Id: <9304010644.AA02419@keks.netcs.com>
Subject: Re: Encapsulating protocols and signaling
To: "George H. Clapp" <clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 8:44:26 MEST
Cc: atm@sun.com, iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us
In-Reply-To: <m0nbFPX-0001c5C@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com>; from "George H. Clapp" at Mar 23, 93 2:17 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL0]
X-Charset: ASCII
X-Char-Esc: 29

> The Lower Layer Compatibility information element (LLC-IE, to distinguish
> it from 802.2 Logical Link Control, LLC) may be sent in the "Call Setup"
> message when establishing a connection.  The LLC-IE contains fields to
> indicate the types of layers 2 and 3.  Layer 2 is indicated in "Octet 6"
> of the LLC-IE; Layer 3 is indicated in "Octet 7".  (These octet numbers
> are logical positions and do not represent the physical position of the
> fields within the LLC-IE.)
As this element is of course also available in some BRI/PRI ISDN D channel
protocols, it can be used there (the german standard D-channel protocol
does not support it (sigh)).

> To indicate the FR/NLPID encapsulation, the LLC-IE values would be...
> 
> bit          8   7   6   5   4   3   2   1
>     
> Octet 6      1   1   0   0   1   1   1   0         indicates CCITT Q.922
> 
> Octet 7      1   1   1   0   1   0   1   1         indicates ISO TR 9577
>                                                    (or NLPID)
> 
> The code point for Q.922 is used rather than "Core Aspects of Q.922"
> because RFC 1294 includes the Control octet (set to 0x03, for Unnumbered
> Information).
Can I interpret this in the following way:

There is a code point reserved for the RFC 1294 encapsulation method 
for use with CCITT/ISO compatible networks? I've not followed the
ongoing discussions within the standardization committees, so i have to
ask.

Since I am currently writing a multiprotocol interconnect proposal for 
the german CAPI (isdn API) and european PCI (communications API), this
can dramatically simplify my work in persuading the others.

> A point to be emphasized is that these LLC-IE fields and values will used
> in signaling for ISDN, Frame Relay, and BISDN, so what is stated here
> will work for all of these public data networks.

And: to have some conformance and interoperability testing, who is willing
to test against our RFC 1294 for circuit switched ISDN (see I-D)?

Please contact me

	Oliver

        Oliver Korfmacher (okorf@netcs.com, whois OK11)

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To: iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Please unsubscribe me
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 93 11:36:16 GMT
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From: Stanley Ooi <ooi@hplb.hpl.hp.com>

Can you please unsubscribe me from this mailing list?

Thanks,
Stanley.
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From:     Narayan Mohanram <narayan@tgv.com>
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To:       iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US

Please unsubscribe me (mohanram@wsl.dec.com) 

Thanks

Narayan Mohanram
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From: Peggy Samson <peggy_samson@isdnhood.bellcore.com>
Subject: PPP over ISDN
To: iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us
Message-ID:  <9304011355.aa17979@CNRI.Reston.VA.US>

 Regarding:     PPP over ISDN
I am very interested in any information you have concerning
PPP over ISDN.  We are using PPP on a Macintosh and we
have an AT&T ISDN 7506 API set connected to that Macintosh.


Peggy Samson
e-mail: mks1@cc.bellcore.com
phone: 908-758-5798



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Original-From: qsun!sedrak (Sedrak Jidarian +1 908 668 6428)
To: iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428
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  Please unsubscribe me.
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	Please unsubscribe me from this mailing list.
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  Please unsubscribe me.

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Original-From: qsun!sedrak (Sedrak Jidarian +1 908 668 6428)
To: iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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    Please unsubscribe me from this mailing list.

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    Please unsubscribe me from this mailing list.

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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From: sedrak@qsun.att.com
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 09:54 EST
Original-From: qsun!sedrak (Sedrak Jidarian +1 908 668 6428)
To: iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
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Message-Id:  <9304020958.aa08635@CNRI.Reston.VA.US>
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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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    Please unsubscribe me from this mailing list.

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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From: sedrak@qsun.att.com
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 09:54 EST
Original-From: qsun!sedrak (Sedrak Jidarian +1 908 668 6428)
To: iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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    Please unsubscribe me from this mailing list.

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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    Please unsubscribe me from this mailing list.

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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From: sedrak@qsun.att.com
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Original-From: qsun!sedrak (Sedrak Jidarian +1 908 668 6428)
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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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From: Drew Daniel Perkins <perkins+@cmu.edu>
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Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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Wow!  It's really nice to have the minutes mailed before you even get
home from the meeting.  Congradulations and thanks to Fred!!!

Drew
-----------------------------------------------------------------
					email: perkins+@cmu.edu
4015 Holiday Park Drive			voice: (412) 325-1785
Murrysville, PA 15668			fax:   (412) 325-1344
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From: sedrak@qsun.att.com
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Original-From: qsun!sedrak (Sedrak Jidarian +1 908 668 6428)
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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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From: Drew Daniel Perkins <perkins+@cmu.edu>
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Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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Reply-To: iplpdn@NRI.Reston.VA.US

Wow!  It's really nice to have the minutes mailed before you even get
home from the meeting.  Congradulations and thanks to Fred!!!

Drew
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                    email: perkins+@cmu.edu
4015 Holiday Park Drive            voice: (412) 325-1785
Murrysville, PA 15668            fax:   (412) 325-1344

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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From: Drew Daniel Perkins <perkins+@cmu.edu>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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Reply-To: iplpdn@NRI.Reston.VA.US

Wow!  It's really nice to have the minutes mailed before you even get
home from the meeting.  Congradulations and thanks to Fred!!!

Drew
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                    email: perkins+@cmu.edu
4015 Holiday Park Drive            voice: (412) 325-1785
Murrysville, PA 15668            fax:   (412) 325-1344

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From: sedrak@qsun.att.com
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 09:54 EST
Original-From: qsun!sedrak (Sedrak Jidarian +1 908 668 6428)
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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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From: Drew Daniel Perkins <perkins+@cmu.edu>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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Wow!  It's really nice to have the minutes mailed before you even get
home from the meeting.  Congradulations and thanks to Fred!!!

Drew
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                    email: perkins+@cmu.edu
4015 Holiday Park Drive            voice: (412) 325-1785
Murrysville, PA 15668            fax:   (412) 325-1344

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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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From: Drew Daniel Perkins <perkins+@cmu.edu>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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Wow!  It's really nice to have the minutes mailed before you even get
home from the meeting.  Congradulations and thanks to Fred!!!

Drew
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                    email: perkins+@cmu.edu
4015 Holiday Park Drive            voice: (412) 325-1785
Murrysville, PA 15668            fax:   (412) 325-1344

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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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From: Drew Daniel Perkins <perkins+@cmu.edu>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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Wow!  It's really nice to have the minutes mailed before you even get
home from the meeting.  Congradulations and thanks to Fred!!!

Drew
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                    email: perkins+@cmu.edu
4015 Holiday Park Drive            voice: (412) 325-1785
Murrysville, PA 15668            fax:   (412) 325-1344

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
Date: 3-APR-1993 14:19:38

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From: Drew Daniel Perkins <perkins+@cmu.edu>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
In-Reply-To: <9304010536.AA09656@saffron.acc.com>
References: <9304010536.AA09656@saffron.acc.com>
Reply-To: iplpdn@NRI.Reston.VA.US

Wow!  It's really nice to have the minutes mailed before you even get
home from the meeting.  Congradulations and thanks to Fred!!!

Drew
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                    email: perkins+@cmu.edu
4015 Holiday Park Drive            voice: (412) 325-1785
Murrysville, PA 15668            fax:   (412) 325-1344

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Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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From: Drew Daniel Perkins <perkins+@cmu.edu>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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Wow!  It's really nice to have the minutes mailed before you even get
home from the meeting.  Congradulations and thanks to Fred!!!

Drew
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                    email: perkins+@cmu.edu
4015 Holiday Park Drive            voice: (412) 325-1785
Murrysville, PA 15668            fax:   (412) 325-1344

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From: sedrak@qsun.att.com
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 09:54 EST
Original-From: qsun!sedrak (Sedrak Jidarian +1 908 668 6428)
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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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From: sedrak@qsun.att.com
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 09:54 EST
Original-From: qsun!sedrak (Sedrak Jidarian +1 908 668 6428)
To: iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428


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Please remove me from this mailing list.
Thanks, Henry
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Please Unsubscribe me from this list

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Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
Date: 3-APR-1993 14:19:38

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From: Drew Daniel Perkins <perkins+@cmu.edu>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re: IPLPDN/PPP WG Joint Meeting Minutes
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Wow!  It's really nice to have the minutes mailed before you even get
home from the meeting.  Congradulations and thanks to Fred!!!

Drew
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                    email: perkins+@cmu.edu
4015 Holiday Park Drive            voice: (412) 325-1785
Murrysville, PA 15668            fax:   (412) 325-1344

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From: sedrak@qsun.att.com
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 09:54 EST
Original-From: qsun!sedrak (Sedrak Jidarian +1 908 668 6428)
To: iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
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Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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Gateway MWMGATE1 could not deliver your mail to cc:Mail user
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Gateway MWMGATE1 could not deliver your mail to cc:Mail user
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From: sedrak@qsun.att.com
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 09:54 EST
Original-From: qsun!sedrak (Sedrak Jidarian +1 908 668 6428)
To: iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
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Reply-To: iplpdn@NRI.Reston.VA.US


Please delete me from this list,

Thanks,
Sedrak Jidarian
908 668-6428

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Gateway MWMGATE1 could not deliver your mail to cc:Mail user
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From: Henry Sinnreich <0002498337@mcimail.com>
To: Frank Bronzo <fbronzo@bbn.com>
Cc: "David E. McDysan" <0002806303@mcimail.com>
Cc: David Greenfield <0004020699@mcimail.com>
Cc: "RND - RAD NETWORK DEVICES LTD." <0004373580@mcimail.com>
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Please remove me from this mailing list.
Thanks, Henry

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Subject: Re: please fix the following mail loop ASAP

It should be fixed.

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  Please unsubscribe me.

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From: "Ramesh Venkataraman, GTC-219, 601-4086" <VRAMESH%GTOWN%VADER@lando.hns.com>
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Please remove me from the list.

Ramesh Venkataraman
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pls remove from the list 

thanks

David Lee
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From: Caralyn Brown <cbrown@wellfleet.com>
Message-Id: <9304141835.AA25076@cbrown.wellfleet>
To: iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: source routing over FR, SMDS etc.


Hello folks!  Suddenly the topic of source routing
over frame relay and SMDS have become hot topics and
I was wondering if anyone has thought about this.  The
problem is really distinguishing the SR BPDU from
the other BPDU.  They are not in the same format so we
can't just use the 802.1 OUI and PID defined for the BPDU.
What do you say we get another PID for this?

Caralyn Brown
Wellfleet Communications
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From: "B.V. Jagadeesh" <Bagalur_V_Jagadeesh@novell.com>
Message-Id: <9304141846.AA11579@ka.SJF.Novell.COM>
To: cbrown@wellfleet.com, iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re:  source routing over FR, SMDS etc.

There was a proposal made by IBM with regards to this on the PPP mailing
list. Seems like there is no other choice than chosing another PID
for Source Route BPDU.

/Jagadeesh
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From: Fred Baker <fbaker@acc.com>
Message-Id: <9304141910.AA19775@saffron.acc.com>
To: cbrown@wellfleet.com
Subject: Re:  source routing over FR, SMDS etc.
Cc: iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US

We are going to assign a PPP protocol id to the sr bpdu;
I would suggest that we do the same in FR
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From: Keith Sklower <sklower@vangogh.cs.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199304142058.NAA15607@vangogh.CS.Berkeley.EDU>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: future assignments of PPP protocol id's.

Inspired by some recent mail on the iplpdn mailing list,
I would like to test some (political) waters here.

We recently observed that there is currently only one conflict
between PPP NCP protocol id's and the list of ethertypes maintained
by Xerox.  (The Banyan vines Control Protocol).

I broached the subject in a conversation to both Drew Perkins and
Bill Simpson about assigning future PPP protocol ID's from the ether
space.  Bill was not inherently averse to this, although he mentioned
the economical way to do this would be to have IANA reserve a bank
of ethernet types with Xerox.  The people at Xerox also don't seem
to have a problem with reserving blocks in the Cxxx space.

This has some potential advantages to snap-encoding of PPP
packets, or trying to move the two encapsulations in a common direction.

I hereby don my asbestos skivies and invite comments on the idea.
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From: Keith Sklower <sklower@vangogh.cs.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199304150108.SAA17041@vangogh.CS.Berkeley.EDU>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: more explanation on merging PPP protocol space with ethertypes

Fred Baker wrote me saying:

}>> I hereby don my asbestos skivies and invite comments on the idea.

}:^)

}Why would you want to have these in the ether space? what's the application?

{If you see this, Fred has given me permission to answer his mail
on the list . . . }

First, recall the ethertype space is used for more than just ethernets.
When you run over FDDI, you use the protocol identifiers from the ethertype
space to identify IP or XNS or IPX, for example.

They are also used in the 00-00-00 snap space.

My proposal for parameter negotiation for frame relay and X.25
suggests using a special ethertype in a snap header meaning ``PPP
protocol type follows''; but I only said that because at the time
there wasn't agreement that the wouldn't be collisions between
PPP protocol numbers and ether numbers.  The two byte
escape wouldn't be necessary if I knew there were no collisions.

There are situations where you might want to run some PPP-ish
things directly over ethernet.  Like CHAP, if you are coming in
via an ISDN-ethernet repeater with no smarts, for example . . .
Or some people have used 10baseT in point-point mode.

I'll offer the same argument that piscatello is using for unique
EID's for TUBA.  It's easier to maintain this discipline now,
since there aren't any collisions at the moment (to speak of),
and it might be even more useful later.

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From: William Allen Simpson <bill.simpson@um.cc.umich.edu>
Message-Id: <1139.bill.simpson@um.cc.umich.edu>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu
Cc: iplpdn@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Reply-To: bsimpson@morningstar.com
Subject: Re: future assignments of PPP protocol id's.

(For those that were not at IETF in Columbus)

I proposed (see drafts) that PPP could have a NLPID, so that it would
be distinguishable from the SNAP headers used over X.25 and Frame Relay.

The joint meeting with the IPLPDN group came up with 5 variations:

 1) a single PPP Ethertype, yielding 8 octets:

    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+---------+--------+
    |NLPID 80|           OUI (0)        |    Ethertype   |   PPP Protocol   |
    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+---------+--------+

 2) Reserving all PPP Protocols as Ethertypes, yielding 6 octets:

    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+
    |NLPID 80|           OUI (0)        | PPP Ethertype  |
    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+

 3) Reserving 1/4 of the IETF OUI for PPP Protocol numbers:

    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+
    |NLPID 80|           OUI (?)        |  PPP Protocol  |
    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+

 4) Reserving a NLPID and PPP Protocol which are the same:

    +--------+--------+--------+
    |NLPID Cx|  PPP Protocol   |
    +--------+--------+--------+

 5) PPP C0 as NLPID, yielding only PPP headers.  This variant would
    not allow other NLPIDs to run concurrently.

    +--------+--------+
    |  PPP Protocol   |
    +--------+--------+

I wanted (as written in my drafts) variant 5.

The group decided to pursue variant 4, with a backup to variant 1.

Keith is now proposing variant 2 as backup.  I concur (as backup).

Bill.Simpson@um.cc.umich.edu
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From: William Allen Simpson <bill.simpson@um.cc.umich.edu>
Message-Id: <1138.bill.simpson@um.cc.umich.edu>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu
Cc: iplpdn@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re: future assignments of PPP protocol id's.

(For those that were not at IETF in Columbus)

I proposed (see drafts) that PPP could have a NLPID, so that it would
be distinguishable from the SNAP headers used over X.25 and Frame Relay.

The joint meeting with the IPLPDN group came up with 5 variations:

 1) a single PPP Ethertype, yielding 8 octets:

    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+---------+--------+
    |NLPID 80|           OUI (0)        |    Ethertype   |   PPP Protocol   |
    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+---------+--------+

 2) Reserving all PPP Protocols as Ethertypes, yielding 6 octets:

    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+
    |NLPID 80|           OUI (0)        | PPP Ethertype  |
    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+

 3) Reserving 1/4 of the IETF OUI for PPP Protocol numbers:

    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+
    |NLPID 80|           OUI (?)        |  PPP Protocol  |
    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+

 4) Reserving a NLPID and PPP Protocol which are the same:

    +--------+--------+--------+
    |NLPID Cx|  PPP Protocol   |
    +--------+--------+--------+

 5) PPP C0 as NLPID, yielding only PPP headers.  This variant would
    not allow other NLPIDs to run concurrently.

    +--------+--------+
    |  PPP Protocol   |
    +--------+--------+

I wanted (as written in my drafts) variant 5.

The group decided to pursue variant 4, with a backup to variant 1.

Keith is now proposing variant 2 as backup.  I concur (as backup).

Bill.Simpson@um.cc.umich.edu
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To: IPLPDN WG <iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us>, 
    PPP Extensions WG <ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu>
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From: George Clapp <clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com>
Subject: Re: future assignments of PPP protocol id's.

> 1) a single PPP Ethertype, yielding 8 octets:
>
>    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+---------+--------+
>    |NLPID 80|           OUI (0)        |    Ethertype   |   PPP Protocol   |
>    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+---------+--------+
>
> 2) Reserving all PPP Protocols as Ethertypes, yielding 6 octets:
>
>    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+
>    |NLPID 80|           OUI (0)        | PPP Ethertype  |
>    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+
>
> 3) Reserving 1/4 of the IETF OUI for PPP Protocol numbers:
>
>    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+
>    |NLPID 80|           OUI (?)        |  PPP Protocol  |
>    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+
>
> 4) Reserving a NLPID and PPP Protocol which are the same:
>
>    +--------+--------+--------+
>    |NLPID Cx|  PPP Protocol   |
>    +--------+--------+--------+
>
> 5) PPP C0 as NLPID, yielding only PPP headers.  This variant would
>    not allow other NLPIDs to run concurrently.
>
>    +--------+--------+
>    |  PPP Protocol   |
>    +--------+--------+
>
>The group decided to pursue variant 4, with a backup to variant 1.
>
>Keith is now proposing variant 2 as backup.  I concur (as backup).

As I understand Keith's proposal, future "PPP Protocol ID" values would be
taken from the Ethertype address space using the 0xCxxx block of codes.
The PPP Protocol ID uses the "extension bit" procedure, so all values have
a pattern of "0bxxxx-xxx0 xxxx-xxx1".  If future values are taken from
Cxxx, they must have the pattern "0b1100-xxx0 xxxx-xxx1".  This does not
appear to be overly burdensome.

What is the nature of the conflict (The Banyan vines Control Protocol),
and how would it be dealt with?

By the way, concerning variant 3, it is true that all of values used
for the PPP Protocol ID must have the pattern "0bxxxx-xxx0 xxxx-xxx1", 
but, in reconsideration, the PPP WG does not have to have *all* of the
values with that pattern.  So I'm not sure that 1/4 of the IETF OUI-PID
address space would be taken by the PPP WG.

George Clapp
phone:  708-248-6507
fax:    708-248-6038
email:  clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com

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From: George Clapp <clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com>
Subject: IPLPDN minutes
Cc: Megan Davies <mdavies@nri.reston.va.us>

Minutes of the IP over Large Public Data Networks (IPLPDN) Working Group
March 29-31, 1993
Columbus, OH

The following actions were taken during the week:

The revised draft of RFC 1294, "Multiprotocol over Frame Relay," was 
approved for submittal to the IESG for release in a new RFC and for 
advancement from Proposed to Draft standard.

RFC 1356, "Multiprotocol over X.25," was reviewed for advancement in 
status.  It was agreed to perform tests of interoperability of 
implementations.

The revised RFC 1315, the Frame Relay MIB document, was discussed.  The group 
agreed to keep this document as the "DTE MIB" and that the new work on a 
Frame Relay MIB would become the "DCE MIB."

Charter of IPLPDN: earlier email had proposed that the IPLPDN WG complete the 
work on "multiprotocol over circuit ISDN," transfer open issues to other 
working groups, and then disband.  Open issues to be transferred are address 
resolution, which might be taken to the IP over ATM WG, and routing issues, 
which may go the VC-ROUTING BOF (soon to be a WG).  The chair agreed to talk 
with the area directors and with working group chairs and report to the group.

Work progressed on the "Multiprotocol over Circuit ISDN" document.  The 
draft was re-titled "Encapsulation Determination over Circuit Switched 
Services."  Keith Sklower will incorporate comments and will distribute the 
revised document by email for WG approval for submittal to the IESG.

Two joint sessions were held with the PPPEXT WG.  Readers are referred to the 
minutes written by Fred Baker.

George Clapp
phone:  708-248-6507
fax:    708-248-6038
email:  clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com

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To: George Clapp <clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com>
cc: IPLPDN WG <iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us>, mdavies@CNRI.Reston.VA.US, 
    minutes@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re: IPLPDN minutes 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Apr 93 11:39:00 CDT."
             <m0njWyi-0001gxC@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com> 
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 13:01:17 -0400
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From: Megan Davies <mdavies@CNRI.Reston.VA.US>
Message-ID:  <9304151301.aa10411@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US>



Thanks George,

I have cc'd <minutes@cnri.reston.va.us> so that Debra will know these
have come in.  If you have and additions, please send them to the
"minutes" address.

Megan

------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 11:39 CDT
To: IPLPDN WG <iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us>
From: George Clapp <clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com>
Subject: IPLPDN minutes
Cc: Megan Davies <mdavies@nri.reston.va.us>

Minutes of the IP over Large Public Data Networks (IPLPDN) Working Group
March 29-31, 1993
Columbus, OH

The following actions were taken during the week:

The revised draft of RFC 1294, "Multiprotocol over Frame Relay," was 
approved for submittal to the IESG for release in a new RFC and for 
advancement from Proposed to Draft standard.

RFC 1356, "Multiprotocol over X.25," was reviewed for advancement in 
status.  It was agreed to perform tests of interoperability of 
implementations.

The revised RFC 1315, the Frame Relay MIB document, was discussed.  The group 
agreed to keep this document as the "DTE MIB" and that the new work on a 
Frame Relay MIB would become the "DCE MIB."

Charter of IPLPDN: earlier email had proposed that the IPLPDN WG complete the 
work on "multiprotocol over circuit ISDN," transfer open issues to other 
working groups, and then disband.  Open issues to be transferred are address 
resolution, which might be taken to the IP over ATM WG, and routing issues, 
which may go the VC-ROUTING BOF (soon to be a WG).  The chair agreed to talk 
with the area directors and with working group chairs and report to the group.

Work progressed on the "Multiprotocol over Circuit ISDN" document.  The 
draft was re-titled "Encapsulation Determination over Circuit Switched 
Services."  Keith Sklower will incorporate comments and will distribute the 
revised document by email for WG approval for submittal to the IESG.

Two joint sessions were held with the PPPEXT WG.  Readers are referred to the 
minutes written by Fred Baker.

George Clapp
phone:  708-248-6507
fax:    708-248-6038
email:  clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com

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From: Fred Baker <fbaker@acc.com>
Message-Id: <9304151823.AA02463@saffron.acc.com>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us
Subject: Re: future assignments of PPP protocol id's
Cc: iana@isi.edu

If we're rethinking this, I'd like to rediscuss option 3.

Keith is suggesting that we get Xerox to allocate [a subset of?] the
Cxxx ethertypes as PPP Ethertypes.  George indicates that there is a
clash with Banyan Vines somehow; like him, I'd like to understand that
better.

> 2) Reserving all PPP Protocols as Ethertypes, yielding 6 octets:
>
>    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+
>    |NLPID 80|           OUI (0)        | PPP Ethertype  |
>    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+

However, this has no clash, definitively, is sanctioned by the relevant
standards committees, and all we have to do to acheive it is get Jon
and Joyce to nod at appropriate times. It *also* makes the protocols
available on ATM etc etc etc with no further ado:

> 3) Reserving 1/4 of the IETF OUI for PPP Protocol numbers:
>
>    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+
>    |NLPID 80|      OUI (00-00-5E)      |  PPP Protocol  |
>    +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+-------+

We us the OUI currently assigned to ISOC, the same one used for IP
Multicast on Ethernet and FDDI, and get IANA to assert that the PID
values that OUI imples are PPP PIDs.

I really don't see how it can get much simpler.  No argument against
this was presented in the joint WG meeting other than that people liked
the other one better, and that *maybe* IANA wouldn't want to allocate
1/4 of the potential PIDs.  My experience is that IANA will do anything
that smacks of common sense; what is the reason that is this not acceptable?

Fred
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From: Keith Sklower <sklower@vangogh.cs.berkeley.edu>
Message-Id: <199304152149.OAA25222@vangogh.CS.Berkeley.EDU>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re: future assignments of PPP protocol id's.

I'll refresh people's memory about what I said in the past.

I compared the list of PPP protocol ID's in RFC1331
and the list of ethertypes in RFC1340, and found only
one common value: 8035 which is simlutaneously the
PPP Banyan Vines Control Protocol, and also the value
for Reverse ARP as an Ethetype number.

This seems like a piece of good luck.  And something
we might want to maintain.

Bill Simpson said that since the RFC for Banyan Vines
over PPP hadn't been published yet, it wouldn't be such
a terrible thing if that PPP protocol ID for Banyan
Vines got reassigned to something non-clashing.

Since there aren't any clashes currently (to speak of,
clarified down below ;-), to respond
to Fred's suggestion of using the ISOC OID instead of the
0 OID (i.e. ethertype OID), I'll say
that that is something we could do, but something
we don't have to do, and I'ld like to not burn that
option right away, but put it away for a rainy day . . .

(somewhat weak arguement follows)  Furthermore,
I'ld rather not have to check for a third
3-byte value, since that usually takes  more
machine cycles than merely checking ethertypes,
or testing for non-zero-ness of the OID and assuming
bridged packet.

[This begs the numerous PPP protocol id's
less then 600 hex for the protocols themselves
which you wouldn't want to use in ethernet packets
because they might get taken for 802.3 lengths, and
there are already common other numbers for them,
like 800 for IP packets as an ethertype].

I also asked Drew Perkins why it was that PPP
protocol id's had an even first byte and an odd
second byte. He said that was so they could be used
as an HDLC two-byte address, but in fact this
was something that was a hedge against a future
day where it might be useful, and wasn't currently
an absolute requirement; if there was a really good
reason to give it up, current implementations
of PPP wouldn't choke.  I'm not saying there is
any good reason to give it up right now!

(If they were used as an HDLC address, you would
need to follow them with a UI, which is currently
not being done).
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To: IPLPDN WG <iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us>, 
    PPP Extensions WG <ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu>, 
    Mick Seaman <Mick_Seaman@3mail.3com.com>
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From: George Clapp <clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com>
Subject: source route bridging over Frame Relay and SMDS

Could someone explain why a separate OUI-PID value is needed for
source route bridging over Frame Relay and SMDS?  Please carbon-copy
Mick Seaman, the chair of the 802.1 group working on remote bridging
and the SRT standard, in your response.

Thanks,
George Clapp
phone:  708-248-6507
fax:    708-248-6038
email:  clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com

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Subject: Re: future assignments of PPP protocol id's.
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can anyone clearly and consisely explain the mechanics of getting ether
types, including the cost (including the effect more than one type has on
the cost))?


much appreciaion.


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To: PPP Extensions WG <ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu>, 
    IPLPDN WG <iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us>
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From: George Clapp <clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com>
Subject: Re: future assignments of PPP protocol id's.

>Since there aren't any clashes currently (to speak of,
>clarified down below ;-), to respond
>to Fred's suggestion of using the ISOC OID instead of the
>0 OID (i.e. ethertype OID), I'll say
>that that is something we could do, but something
>we don't have to do, and I'ld like to not burn that
>option right away, but put it away for a rainy day . . .
>
>(somewhat weak arguement follows)  Furthermore,
>I'ld rather not have to check for a third
>3-byte value, since that usually takes  more
>machine cycles than merely checking ethertypes,
>or testing for non-zero-ness of the OID and assuming
>bridged packet.
>
>[This begs the numerous PPP protocol id's
>less then 600 hex for the protocols themselves
>which you wouldn't want to use in ethernet packets
>because they might get taken for 802.3 lengths, and
>there are already common other numbers for them,
>like 800 for IP packets as an ethertype].
>
>I also asked Drew Perkins why it was that PPP
>protocol id's had an even first byte and an odd
>second byte. He said that was so they could be used
>as an HDLC two-byte address, but in fact this
>was something that was a hedge against a future
>day where it might be useful, and wasn't currently
>an absolute requirement; if there was a really good
>reason to give it up, current implementations
>of PPP wouldn't choke.  I'm not saying there is
>any good reason to give it up right now!
>
>(If they were used as an HDLC address, you would
>need to follow them with a UI, which is currently
>not being done).


I have to admit, I'm not sure what you're saying, Keith.  Are you
proposing that we use Xerox's OUI (0x00-00-00) and "merge" the
PPP PID values into the Ethertype?  Is that you're preferred approach?
I'm not opposed; just trying to figure out what you are proposing.

Thanks,
George Clapp
phone:  708-248-6507
fax:    708-248-6038
email:  clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com

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From: Fred Baker <fbaker@acc.com>
Message-Id: <9304162209.AA19573@saffron.acc.com>
To: clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com
Subject: Re: future assignments of PPP protocol id's.
Cc: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us

George:

>> I have to admit, I'm not sure what you're saying, Keith.  Are you
>> proposing that we use Xerox's OUI (0x00-00-00) and "merge" the
>> PPP PID values into the Ethertype?  Is that you're preferred approach?
>> I'm not opposed; just trying to figure out what you are proposing.

Yes, that's exactly what Keith is proposing. I'm afraid that I already
have to check the extra three bytes (there are other OUIs out there),
and this sounds like a lot of administrivia and argument to solve
something that COULD be solved a lot more easily.

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From: William Allen Simpson <bill.simpson@um.cc.umich.edu>
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To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu
Cc: iplpdn@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Reply-To: bsimpson@morningstar.com
Subject: Re: future assignments of PPP protocol id's.

> From: stev@ftp.com  (stev knowles)
> can anyone clearly and consisely explain the mechanics of getting ether
> types, including the cost (including the effect more than one type has on
> the cost))?
>
When I called the person responsible at Xerox, she said it was $300 per
block of any size, but that they would only charge $300 for a few
scattered addresses in a single request.

She also told me that requests from educational institutions were
"complimentary".  She specifically told me that USC had been given
some free addresses just a few weeks ago.

I checked with Joyce Reynolds, who confirmed that IANA gets addresses
for IETF protocols through USC.  She would prefer that we get addresses
through IANA, so that they can be published in Assigned Numbers.  Xerox
refuses to give IANA a list.

However, Xerox charged Keith $300, even though he's at Berkeley.  My
guess is that Keith just didn't ask about getting them for free, or
wasn't forceful enough about it.

The person I talked to at Xerox was very emphatic that they were willing
to waive fees to avoid having people just go ahead and use addresses
without registering them, with resultant conflicts later.

Bill.Simpson@um.cc.umich.edu
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From: William Allen Simpson <bill.simpson@um.cc.umich.edu>
Message-Id: <1147.bill.simpson@um.cc.umich.edu>
To: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu
Cc: iplpdn@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: Re: future assignments of PPP protocol id's.

> From: stev@ftp.com  (stev knowles)
> can anyone clearly and consisely explain the mechanics of getting ether
> types, including the cost (including the effect more than one type has on
> the cost))?
>
When I called the person responsible at Xerox, she said it was $300 per
block of any size, but that they would only charge $300 for a few
scattered addresses in a single request.

She also told me that requests from educational institutions were
"complimentary".  She specifically told me that USC had been given
some free addresses just a few weeks ago.

I checked with Joyce Reynolds, who confirmed that IANA gets addresses
for IETF protocols through USC.  She would prefer that we get addresses
through IANA, so that they can be published in Assigned Numbers.  Xerox
refuses to give IANA a list.

However, Xerox charged Keith $300, even though he's at Berkeley.  My
guess is that Keith just didn't ask about getting them for free, or
wasn't forceful enough about it.

The person I talked to at Xerox was very emphatic that they were willing
to waive fees to avoid having people just go ahead and use addresses
without registering them, with resultant conflicts later.

Bill.Simpson@um.cc.umich.edu
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Subject: ID ACTION:draft-ietf-iplpdn-framerelay-02.txt
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 11:39:42 -0400
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--NextPart

A Revised Internet Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories. This draft is a work item of the IP over Large Public 
Data Networks Working Group of the IETF.                              

       Title     : Multiprotocol over Frame Relay                     
       Author(s) : T. Bradley, C. Brown, A. Malis
       Filename  : draft-ietf-iplpdn-framerelay-02.txt
       Pages     : 38

This memo describes an encapsulation method for carrying network 
interconnect traffic over a Frame Relay backbone.  It covers aspects 
of both Bridging and Routing.  Systems with the ability to transfer 
both this encapsulation method, and others must have a prior knowledge
of which virtual circuits will carry which encapsulation method and 
this encapsulation must only be used over virtual circuits that have 
been explicitly configured for its use.                               

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From: "Lim, Andy" <ALim@vnpbfpac.telecom.com.au>
To: iplpdn <iplpdn@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US>
Subject: Re: when is the next 2 FR/SMDS/ATM mtgs?
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 14:10:00 EST
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Hi,

Could someone tell me when and where the next 2 Frame Relay Forum/SMDS
Interest Group and ATM Forum meetings (in US and Europe) would be?

Andy Lim
Fast Packet Services
Telecom Australia

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To: IPLPDN WG <iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us>, IP over ATM WG <atm@sun.com>, 
    iiir@merit.edu, consndisc@bitnic.educom.edu, nisi@merit.edu
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Subject: data networking conference

Attached is the announcement for a data networking conference 
on May 11 -13 in Chicago.  The conference includes Interop Company 
on-site technical training courses offered by Ameritech (at a discount),
SMDS and Frame Relay equipment demonstrations, and an executive 
session.  Accommodations can be arranged  for $115/night including
three meals.  Registration information is at the end of this message.
Call 800-334-3334 or 708-248-3694 for more information.  Email
registrations to:   memc@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com.

     1st Annual Conference
     
     Data Networking Directions --
     The 1990s and Beyond

     Integrating today's solutions and tomorrow's possibilities. 
     
     May 11-13, 1993
     Lisle, Illinois
     
     Sponsored by:
     
     Ameritech and
     AT&T

     Interop Company On-Site Tutorials Offered by Ameritech     
        (Seats are limited.  Please register as soon as possible.)
    

Executive Session:  May 11:  11:30 - 7:00 p.m. (by invitation)
    -Luncheon and demonstrations 11:30 - 12:45
    -Conference 1:00 - 5:00
    -Executive reception 5:00 - 7:00

     
     "Research and Development Contribution to U.S. Business Success," 
        -Robert Lucky, Vice President Applied Research, Bellcore
     
     "High Speed Data Networking as a Strategic Component of Business 
          Infrastructure," 
        -Michael Farmer, President Ameritech Advanced Data Services
     
     "Using Mass Media Technical Information for Action, Not Confusion," 
       -Alexander Cockburn, Syndicated Columnist, Los Angeles Times, The 
         Nation, and the Wall Street Journal
     
     "Future of Information Networking from the Clinton Administration 
      Perspective," 
         -U.S. Vice President, Al Gore (invited)     


Technical Conference Kickoff:  
 -May 11 6:30 p.m.
 -Reception and Vendor Panel, "Components of the Service and How They're Used" 

Demonstrations Open:     May 11:  6:30p.m. - 8:30 p.m. with reception
                 May 12: 12:00noon - 7:00 p.m. with reception 5:00-7:00
                 May 13:  8:00a.m. - 1:30 with contintental breakfast
                                          breakfast 8:00 a.m. - 9:00

Vendors will be available to discuss your networking requirements and issues.  

Interop Company on-site training courses, May 12 - 13, 9:00 - 5:00:
    
     Introduction to TCP/IP Internetworking,
     Dr. Douglas E. Comer, Purdue University
     
     Instructor:
     Dr. Comer is a full professor of computer science at Purdue 
     University and a internationally known author of TCP/IP, Author of 
     numerous research papers and textbooks and head of several 
     networking research projects.  Dr. Comer designed and implemented 
     both the X25NET and Cypress networks and the Xinu operating system.  
     He is director of the Internetworking Research Group at Purdue, 
     editor-in-chief of the Journal of Internetworking, and former member 
     of the LAB.  Dr. Comer is also the North American editor of Software 
     Practice and Experience.
     
     Overview:
     The TCP/IP suite lets heterogeneous computer systems communicate 
     across interconnected networks using gateways and routers.  In this 
     tutorial, the instructor will describe IP addressing, subnetting, 
     and protocols including ARP, TCP, IP, FTP, TELNET, EGP and RIP.  You 
     will learn about concepts, principles, format, and the content of 
     the messages including IP datagrams and TCP segments.  Technical 
     terms and acronyms will be defined and examples of simple topologies 
     and routing strategies will be given.
     
     Syllabus:
     *  Organizations, documents, services, concepts
     *  Internet protocol:  IP addressing, address binding, APR, IP, 
        routing, fragmentation, ICMP
     *  Transport services, protocol layering, UDP, TCP, sockets, ports
     *  Internet architecture:  backbones, routing, EGP, RIP, Hello, DNS
     *  Applications:  client-server, mail, remote login (TELNET), file 
        transfer (FTP), network management (SNMP)
     *  Test provided to attendees:  Internetworking with TCP/IP:  
        Principles, Protocols, and Architectures
     
     
     SNA Interoperability Architecture and Implementations, 
     Wayne Clark, Cisco Systems, Inc.
     
     Instructor:
     Mr. Clark, the SNA architect at Cisco Systems, Inc., has a master of 
     science degree in computer engineering from Santa Clara University.  
     Mr. Clark was previously a senior architect in the IBM Connectivity 
     Operations of 3Com Corporation and a leading developer of OEM SNA 
     software at Communications Solutions, Inc.
     
     Overview:
     IBM's Systems Network Architecture (SNA) is the networking 
     architecture of choice for many corporations.  The integration of 
     LANS and non-SNA networks with SNA has been popular for nearly seven 
     years.  In this tutorial you will learn about the interoperability 
     of SNA with TCP/IP and OSI from both architectural and product 
     perspectives.  The instructor will discuss a variety of products 
     from IBM and third-party vendors.
     
     Syllabus:
     *  Overview of the SNA architecture
     *  Description of IBM's advanced architectures APPC and APPN
     *  IBM directions for SNA interoperability
     *  Detailed descriptions of current SNA internetworking devices
     *  Integrating heterogeneous networks into IBM's network management 
        solution
     
     
     The Simple Network Management Protocol (SNMP) for Internet Network 
     Management, 
     Dr. Jeffrey D. Case, SNMP
     
     Instructor:
     Dr. Case is the author and co-author of several management standards 
     (including SNMP).  He is the principal author of the leading 
     vendor-independent reference implementation of SNMP-based agents and 
     manager of many vendors' SNMP implementations.
     
     Overview:
     The Simple Network Management Protocol (SNMP), designed for the 
     management of TCP/IP based internets, is a de facto standard.  The 
     use of SNMP is expanding to other applications and protocol suites.  
     In this tutorial, you will gain a thorough understanding of SNMP and 
     its underlying concepts and information about how to implement 
     systems based on SNMP.
     
     Syllabus:
     *  Introduction to network management and the network management 
        model
     *  The SNMP protocol
     *  Abstract Syntax Notation One (ASN1) language, syntax and 
        encoding
     *  Network management standardization process
     *  Standardization status, recent developments and the future
     *  Text provided to attendees:  The Simple Book - An Introduction 
        to Management of TCP/IP based Internets
     
     
     Building Data Networks with Bridges and Routers, 
     Scott O. Bradner, Harvard University
     
     Instructor:
     Mr. Bradner had been involved in data networking at Harvard since 
     the early day of the ARPANET.  He worked on the design of the 
     Harvard High-Speed Data Network (HSDN), the Longwood Medical Area 
     Network (LMAnet) and the New England Academic and Research Network 
     (NEARnet).  He is chairman of the technical subcommittees of both 
     LMAnet and NEARnet and of the IETF Benchmarking Methodology Working 
     Group.  Mr. Bradner is currently a consultant at Harvard and works 
     on the design and development of network-based applications.
     
     Overview:
     There has been an evolution in the design of data networks for the 
     university and enterprise-wide environments from bridged LANs to 
     complex internet-works.  In this tutorial you will learn about all 
     of the aspects involved in operating a modern data network, 
     including how to design and manage internetworks.
     
     Syllabus:
     *  Design:  data network design issues:  routers evaluation
     *  Examples:  routing protocol descriptions and issues
     *  Security:  data network security concepts and procedures
     *  Management:  network management procedures and tools
     *  Background:  equipment definitions applications and performance
     
     
     Gigabit Network Architectures*
     
     Instructor:
     Dr. William E. Stephens is a Director in the "High Speed Switching, 
     Storage and Systems Interconnect Research Group" at Bellcore and has 
     done research on microwave-optical communications, ATM packet switching, 
     and optical signal processing.  He has over 40 publications and one 
     patent in the field of optical communications and data communications.
     (*Not an Interop course.)
     
     Overview:
     This course aims at providing a general understanding of the key 
     protocols and networking elements needed to design and implement 
     gigabit local area and wide area networks.  The several transport 
     and switching protocols presently being considered for use in 
     gigabit networks will be discussed as well as the high throughput 
     computer I/O interfaces such as the High Performance Parallel 
     Interface (HiPPI).  Bridging, routing and switching for high-speed 
     networks with an emphasis on ATM switching for public and private 
     networks will be discussed.
     
     Syllabus:
     *  Introduction - Drivers for Gigabit Networks
        - Information Age Interconnections
        - Broadband ISDN Networks - Telephony's Vision of the Future
        - Gigabit Testbeds
     *  Overview of High-Speed Transport Protocols
        - SONET (Synchronous Optical Network),
        - ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode),
        - HiPPI (High Performance Parallel Interface),
        - Fiber Channel System
     *  Advanced Routing, Bridging and Switching for Gigabit Networks
        - OSI Stack and Its Relationship to SONET, ATM and HiPPI
        - Integrated versus Segregated Networks
        - The Role of Switching and Switching Techniques
        - Implementation Issues for Large Scale Switches
        - Local ATM Networks
     
     
     Switched Multi-megabit Data Services (SMDS), Frame Relay Service and 
     Cell Based/ATM Networks
     George Clapp, Ameritech Advanced Data Services 
     
     Instructor:
     Mr. Clapp is Vice President Technology Management at Ameritech 
     Advanced Data Services, and has participated in MAN standardization 
     since 1985.  He currently serves as chair of the IETF Working Group 
     on IP over Large Public Data Networks and of the IEEE 802.6 Bridging 
     Subworking Group.  Mr. Clapp is working toward a Ph.D in computer 
     science at UCLA.
     
     Overview:
     Switched Multi-megabit Data Service (SMDS), a high-speed 
     connectionless packet switching service is the first public service 
     to be supported by broadband cell based technologies.  This tutorial 
     will present a comprehensive overview of SMDS describing its 
     protocol structures, operation and management.  The instructor will 
     describe LAN interconnection over SMDS an how SMDS related to the 
     IEEE 802.6 MAN standard, broadband ISDN, SONET and Frame Relay.
     
     Syllabus:
     *  What is SMDS and who offers it?
     *  Relationship to 802.6 B-ISND, SONET and Frame Relay
     *  SMDS protocol and operation
     *  Management of an SMDS access
     *  LAN interconnection over SMDS
     
     
     Half-Day Overview Sessions*
     (*Not an Interop course.)
     May 12 & 13 - 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. (Session is repeated.)
     
     Overview of Frame Relay Service (FRS) and Switched Multi-megabit 
     Data Service (SMDS), 
     Tate Byrne Jennings, LATT Company and Deirdre Kostick, Bellcore
     
     Overview:
     SMDS and FRS are designed to interconnect customers' local data 
     environments over a wide area.  They are synergistic services, each 
     meeting different sets of user needs.  This overview will describe 
     both services, respective user environments where each service is 
     applicable, general protocol discussion, economics, example network 
     topologies, network management, national and international 
     activities, deployment and pricing.

     
     Registration and General Information: (800) 334-3334 or (708) 248-3694
        or register to:  memc@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com

Please state name, mailing address and phone numbers, tutorial selection, 
method of payment (bill you or Visa or MasterCard number and expiration date.)
     
        **REGISTRATION SELECTION**                      **COST**

     Executive session:                         None, invitation only
     
     Interop tutorial, demonstration and                $675
     receptions in demonstration areas:           (Note:  cost at Interop
        (List session desired.)                     Fall 92 and Spring 93
                                                        was $895)       
     
     Half-day overview session,                         $100
     demonstrations and reception:
     
     Demonstrations and reception only:         Free if registered
                                                        by 4/29.  $10 after. 
    
    Accommodations per night, including                 $115
    three meals (see description below):
    
    Day registration (meals) without overnight           $35
    accommodation,      
    
    LOCATION
     Accommodations, sessions and demos are at the Hickory Ridge 
     Conference Center in Lisle, Illinois, approximately 26 miles west of 
     the Chicago loop.
     
     Accommodations, at $115 per night include three meals and the 
     following recreational facilities:
     
     *  Swimming pool
     *  Racquetball
     *  Sauna
     *  Fitness Center with Universal equipment, Lifecycles and aerobic 
        classes
     *  Game room with billiards and ping-pong
     *  Outdoor tennis courts, sand volleyball court, horseshoes and 
        jogging trails
     *  Guests can play golf at nearby courses
     *  The Conference Center also has a cocktail lounge offering 
        light-fare and entertainment.


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Message-Id: <m0nlktL-0001hnC@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 93 14:55 CDT
To: IPLPDN WG <iplpdn@nri.reston.va.us>
X-Orig-Sender:iplpdn-request@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Sender:ietf-archive-request@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US
From: George Clapp <clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com>
Subject: Qs on RFC1294 to draft standard

The IESG is taking up our request to advance RFC1294 to draft standard
and would like some information.

>- who/how many have implemented the RFC?
>- how much of it has been implemented by these folks?
>  (e.g., has everyone implemented the convergence fragmentation protocol?)
>- who has done interoperability testing and against whom?
>- over what f/r networks?
>- does this represent the consensus of the IPLPDN WG? Please
>  summarize (briefly) the activity, and cite any dissension/issues.

Please respond to Dave at <dave@mail.bellcore.com>

Thanks,
George Clapp
phone:  708-248-6507
fax:    708-248-6038
email:  clapp@ameris.center.il.ameritech.com

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--NextPart

A Revised Internet Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories. This draft is a work item of the IP over Large Public 
Data Networks Working Group of the IETF.                              

       Title     : Multiprotocol Interconnect over Frame Relay        
       Author(s) : T. Bradley, C. Brown, A. Malis
       Filename  : draft-ietf-iplpdn-framerelay-03.txt
       Pages     : 38

This memo describes an encapsulation method for carrying network 
interconnect traffic over a Frame Relay backbone.  It covers aspects 
of both Bridging and Routing.  Systems with the ability to transfer 
both this encapsulation method, and others must have a prior knowledge
of which virtual circuits will carry which encapsulation method and 
this encapsulation must only be used over virtual circuits that have 
been explicitly configured for its use.                               

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Subject: Please add me to email group


Please add me to this email group. Please let me know if there is
anything that I should follow (or if this is the wrong DL for requests).
Thanks.

Regards,

Alex Lei    lei_alexander@tandem.com    (408) 285-4201
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From: "Frederik H. Andersen" <fha@dde.dk>
Message-Id: <9304301316.AA12531@Kurt.dde.dk>
To: iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
Subject: IP/ISDN and LAPB?
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Hi,

Is there anybody out there? Has all discussion ceased or has it been
moved to another list?

Anyway, I have some questions about IP via ISDN mainly from the 
standpoint of Keith Sklower's draft (expires August 16). This may be 
completely out of place with regard to the present standarization work 
etc, so please, dont flame me.

We are (in my company) going to implement IP via ISDN and would
very much appreciate some advice.

We have just completed X.25 via ISDN and would like to continue using 
LAPB as the layer 2 protocol when layer 3 is IP and not X.25. This 
seems like a very natural way of doing it, especially when most vendors
probably have to implement X.25/ISDN anyway.

Is there some particulary reasons why not LAPB is going to be
recommended, but LAPF (Frame Relay) instead. Taking the number of
proposed methods (IP/Frame Relay/ISDN, IP/X.25/ISDN, IP/PPP-ISDN) into
account, the argument: "Let us all adhere to ONE method" doesn't seem 
to count much?

We would like to base the layer 3 selection on the LLC-IE. Has there
been allocated a code point for IP as layer 3? If so, wouldn't it
be possible for this value to be used when LAPB is layer 2?

Thanks in advance,

	Frederik


 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
 Frederik H. Andersen            Phone:  +45 42 84 50 11           
 Dansk Data Elektronik A/S       Fax:    +45 42 84 52 20           
 Herlev Hovedgade 199            Email:  fha@dde.dk (MIME accepted)
 DK-2730 Herlev, DENMARK                                           
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From: Fred Baker <fbaker@acc.com>
Message-Id: <9304301551.AA20936@saffron.acc.com>
To: fha@dde.dk
Subject: Re:  IP/ISDN and LAPB?
Cc: ietf-ppp@ucdavis.edu, iplpdn@CNRI.Reston.VA.US

>> Is there some particulary reasons why not LAPB is going to be
>> recommended, but LAPF (Frame Relay) instead. Taking the number of
>> proposed methods (IP/Frame Relay/ISDN, IP/X.25/ISDN, IP/PPP-ISDN) into
>> account, the argument: "Let us all adhere to ONE method" doesn't seem 
>> to count much?

Well, it turns out that the one method you choose depends a lot on what
you're talking about at the other end. If you're talking to an X.25
DCE, X.25 is usually the protocol of choice. If you're talking to a
frame relay switch or a PC emulating one, LAPF/RFC 1294 is probably
the protocol of choice.

LAPB has some good points and some bad points.  One thing that it lacks
altogether is an identifier for what's inside the frame; the assumption
is made that the frame contains X.25.  For lack of this field and
because it has better link usage characteristics on low error rate
links in a "best effort" service discipline, I think the IETF is
recommending PPP for peer to peer service.

Fred
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From: Vernon Schryver <vjs@rhyolite.wpd.sgi.com>
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To: iplpdn@ietf.nri.reston.va.us
Subject: Re:  IP/ISDN and LAPB?


From: goldstein@carafe.tay2.dec.com

>                                                            ...    Of
> course there's always PPP, which is groovy too. ...

And the choice of some workstation vendors (plural) for current
(I think) and forthcoming products.

PPP makes it easy to connect to other machines which are using those
terminal adapters that look to them like Hayes compatible async modems.


Vernon Schryver,  vjs@sgi.com


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To: iplpdn@ietf.nri.reston.va.us
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From: Robert Berger <rberger@cerf.net>
X-Sender: rberger@nic.cerf.net
Subject: Re:  IP/ISDN and LAPB? (and LAPF and PPP)

Glad to see the  list alive!

I am still  learning about all this stuff, so please use low temperature
feedback to let me know if I'm saying something stupid :-)

One possible advantage of the Frame Relay (and I guess X.25, though I
preffer not to use X.25 due to its "heavy weight" overhead) is to make it a
bit easier to handle aggregates of communications from many BRI calls into
a centralized gateway or hub.

In other words, lets say we have a bunch (100's) of PCs, Macs or
Workstations of Telecommuters in the field and we want to allow them to get
onto a corporate net or the Internet. Each one of these telecommuters would
have a BRI and be running a TCP/IP stack. They want to be calling into a
gateway.

Now if they are using PPP, they would have to make a B connection to a Hub
that would handle the PPP de-encapsulation. To get some economy of scale, 
the Hub could have a PRI that would handle 23 simultaneous B connections.
You might be able to have a box that would handle 4 - 8 PRIs (if your
lucky!). Currently boxes that handle 1 -2 PRIs cost around $20 - $30k and
are somewhat specialized.

If instead, we used a frame relay protocol over ISDN, then the CO  itself
could possibly route the frames from the ISDN call onto the Frame Relay
network. The Gateway would then be a traditional Frame Relay Router,
available from many vendors. The router could handle many more
"simultaneous connections" as there would be "finer grained" loading of the
router compared to having the explicit B channels / connection into the
Hub.

Bob

Robert J. Berger 
InterNex Information Services
935 College Ave. Menlo Park, CA 94025 
Voice: 415-327-6038  FAX: 415-327-6416 
Internet: rberger@cerf.net

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Subject: Re: IP/ISDN and LAPB? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 30 Apr 93 15:16:35 +0200.
             <9304301316.AA12531@Kurt.dde.dk> 
Date: Sat, 01 May 93 12:52:29 +0900
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>We have just completed X.25 via ISDN and would like to continue using 
>LAPB as the layer 2 protocol when layer 3 is IP and not X.25. This 
>seems like a very natural way of doing it, especially when most vendors
>probably have to implement X.25/ISDN anyway.

We support IP over LAPB on ISDN Circuit-Switch, from 3 years ago.

    SETUP message
	LLC Layer2:	X75SLP or X25LAPB
	UUI octet 3:	0x02(X.244) or 0x00(User Specific)
	    octet 4:	0xcc
    LAPB
	LAPB Address:	caller 3/callee 1 (compatible with CCITT T.90)
    IP
	MTU:		1500


Kenji Fujisawa     fujisawa@sm.sony.co.jp
Sony Corp., Supermicro Systems Group, Tokyo, Japan.
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