Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa00021; 4 Aug 97 18:12 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid SAA11238 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA10009 for ietf-nntp-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 16:56:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (root@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10004 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 16:56:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from spot.cs.utk.edu (SPOT.CS.UTK.EDU [128.169.92.189]) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07708; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 16:56:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cs.utk.edu by spot.cs.utk.edu with ESMTP (cf v2.11c-UTK) id RAA12565; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708042156.RAA12565@spot.cs.utk.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 X-URI: http://www.cs.utk.edu/~moore/ To: ietf-nntp@academ.com Subject: ietf-nntp New Chairs for NNTPEXT cc: moore@cs.utk.edu, Harald Alvestrand , sob@academ.com, ned@innosoft.com From: Keith Moore Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 17:56:13 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk I'm pleased to announce that Stan Barber and Ned Freed have agreed to take over as co-chairs for NNTPEXT. Their appointment takes effect immediately. Please welcome them! Keith   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa09718; 5 Aug 97 10:41 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid KAA12962 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA12882 for ietf-nntp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:35:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (root@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA12877 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:35:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.esoterica.pt (brilthor.esoterica.pt [194.130.254.9]) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18961; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:34:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gothmog.esoterica.pt (gothmog.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.194]) by mail.esoterica.pt (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA20843; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:35:15 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970805153604.00726534@mail.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: mvalente@mail.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 15:36:04 +0100 To: Keith Moore , ietf-nntp@academ.com From: Mario Valente Subject: Re: ietf-nntp New Chairs for NNTPEXT Cc: moore@cs.utk.edu, Harald Alvestrand , sob@academ.com, ned@innosoft.com In-Reply-To: <199708042156.RAA12565@spot.cs.utk.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk At 17:56 04-08-1997 -0400, Keith Moore wrote: >I'm pleased to announce that Stan Barber and Ned Freed have agreed to >take over as co-chairs for NNTPEXT. Their appointment takes effect >immediately. > >Please welcome them! > My welcome to both of them and may I take the opportunity to present myself. I'm newmaster at Esoterica, a portuguese ISP, and I'm participating in both this WG to redefine RFC977 and in WG to redefine RFC1036 Since I only recently joined the mailing list I would like to pose a question, related to an idea of mine on the redesign of NNTP and Usenet: currently the RFC states that for a SENDME or ARTICLE request, the *entire* article should be sent. I have this idea whereby only the headers would be sent and stored and the body of the articles requested on demand. This would lead to changes in both NNTP and probably in the format of the messages themselves. Has this been discussed already ? If yes under what subject, since I was unable to find any info on the mailing list archive ? If needed I can expose further on my idea. Its quite simple in RFC terms, quite simple in implementation terms (at least INNwise) and would save tons of bandwidth and disk space. C U! -- Mario Valente   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa14711; 5 Aug 97 13:35 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid NAA13591 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:33:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA13298 for ietf-nntp-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:29:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (root@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13293 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:29:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from starfish.netscape.com (h-205-217-237-33.netscape.com [205.217.237.33]) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21023 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:28:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pixie.mcom.com (pixie.mcom.com [205.217.237.112]) by starfish.netscape.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA00234 for <@starfish.mcom.com:ietf-nntp@academ.com>; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pixie.mcom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pixie.mcom.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA10921 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:28:26 -0700 To: ietf-nntp@academ.com Path: news From: John Gardiner Myers Newsgroups: mcom.list.ietf-nntp Subject: ietf-nntp replacing ARTICLE Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 10:28:27 -0700 Organization: Netscape Communications Corporation Lines: 12 Message-ID: <33E762BB.E569D932@netscape.com> References: <199708042156.RAA12565@spot.cs.utk.edu> <3.0.3.32.19970805153604.00726534@mail.esoterica.pt> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.217.229.208 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk > Since I only recently joined the mailing list I would like to pose a > question, > related to an idea of mine on the redesign of NNTP and Usenet: currently > the RFC states that for a SENDME or ARTICLE request, the *entire* article > should be sent. I have this idea whereby only the headers would be sent > and stored and the body of the articles requested on demand. This would > lead to changes in both NNTP and probably in the format of the messages > themselves. Instead of making substantial redesigns to the NNTP reader protocol, you should consider simply migrating to reading Usenet through the IMAP protocol.   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa26560; 6 Aug 97 6:18 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid GAA15540 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 06:17:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA16260 for ietf-nntp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 05:09:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (root@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA16255 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 05:09:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.esoterica.pt (brilthor.esoterica.pt [194.130.254.9]) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA02034 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 05:09:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gothmog.esoterica.pt (gothmog.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.194]) by mail.esoterica.pt (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA30627; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:10:05 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970806111121.00715e88@mail.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: mvalente@mail.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 11:11:21 +0100 To: John Gardiner Myers , ietf-nntp@academ.com From: Mario Valente Subject: Re: ietf-nntp replacing ARTICLE In-Reply-To: <33E762BB.E569D932@netscape.com> References: <199708042156.RAA12565@spot.cs.utk.edu> <3.0.3.32.19970805153604.00726534@mail.esoterica.pt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk At 10:28 05-08-1997 -0700, John Gardiner Myers wrote: >> Since I only recently joined the mailing list I would like to pose a >> question, >> related to an idea of mine on the redesign of NNTP and Usenet: currently >> the RFC states that for a SENDME or ARTICLE request, the *entire* article >> should be sent. I have this idea whereby only the headers would be sent >> and stored and the body of the articles requested on demand. This would >> lead to changes in both NNTP and probably in the format of the messages >> themselves. > >Instead of making substantial redesigns to the NNTP reader protocol, you >should consider simply migrating to reading Usenet through the IMAP >protocol. > > I wasnt talking about reading: thats NNRP. I'm talking about propagation of articles between servers. And the redesing isnt substantial: its just stating that instead of an article being sent fully when propagated, only the headers should be sent. C U! -- Mario Valente   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa25075; 6 Aug 97 17:36 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid RAA17320 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:34:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA17532 for ietf-nntp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:28:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (root@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17527 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:28:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from porta-sparc.mcom.com (h-205-217-229-148.netscape.com [205.217.229.148]) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10704 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:28:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jgmyers-nt (h-205-217-229-208.mcom.com [205.217.229.208]) by porta-sparc.mcom.com (1.0.b2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00698 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33E8EC4C.29B5D0D8@netscape.com> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 14:27:40 -0700 From: John Gardiner Myers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-nntp@academ.com Subject: Re: ietf-nntp replacing ARTICLE X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199708042156.RAA12565@spot.cs.utk.edu> <3.0.3.32.19970805153604.00726534@mail.esoterica.pt> <3.0.3.32.19970806111121.00715e88@mail.esoterica.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk > I wasnt talking about reading: thats NNRP. I'm talking about propagation > of articles between servers. My apologies, I completely missed this point.   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa29210; 6 Aug 97 20:08 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid UAA17722 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 20:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA17865 for ietf-nntp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:02:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (root@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17860 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:02:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12817 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:01:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fusion.mcom.com (fusion.mcom.com [205.217.255.82]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27651 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([205.217.228.45]) by fusion.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 401; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:01:16 -0700 Message-ID: <33E90F9C.A15659B9@netscape.com> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 16:58:20 -0700 From: Brian Hernacki Organization: Netscape, Floating Point Division X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mario Valente CC: ietf-nntp@academ.com, ned@innosoft.com Subject: Re: ietf-nntp New Chairs for NNTPEXT References: <3.0.3.32.19970805153604.00726534@mail.esoterica.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk Mario Valente wrote: > > At 17:56 04-08-1997 -0400, Keith Moore wrote: > >I'm pleased to announce that Stan Barber and Ned Freed have agreed to > >take over as co-chairs for NNTPEXT. Their appointment takes effect > >immediately. > > > >Please welcome them! > > > > My welcome to both of them and may I take the opportunity to > present myself. > > I'm newmaster at Esoterica, a portuguese ISP, and I'm participating > in both this WG to redefine RFC977 and in WG to redefine RFC1036 > > Since I only recently joined the mailing list I would like to pose a > question, > related to an idea of mine on the redesign of NNTP and Usenet: currently > the RFC states that for a SENDME or ARTICLE request, the *entire* article > should be sent. I have this idea whereby only the headers would be sent > and stored and the body of the articles requested on demand. This would > lead to changes in both NNTP and probably in the format of the messages > themselves. > > Has this been discussed already ? If yes under what subject, since I was > unable to find any info on the mailing list archive ? > > If needed I can expose further on my idea. Its quite simple in RFC terms, > quite simple in implementation terms (at least INNwise) and would save > tons of bandwidth and disk space. Somone once mentioned to me that they consider one of the strengths of NNTP/Usenet is that there is never just one copy of something. It makes it alot harder for the Scientologists when they need to sue 10,000 admins to remove content. --brian Opinions are mine, not Netscape's   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa00873; 6 Aug 97 21:08 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid VAA17828 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 21:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA18029 for ietf-nntp-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 20:02:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (root@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18024 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 20:02:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from thailand.it.earthlink.net (thailand.it.earthlink.net [207.217.91.14]) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14076 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 20:02:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from npc@localhost) by thailand.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA29209 for ietf-nntp@academ.com; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 18:02:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Nick Christenson Message-Id: <199708070102.SAA29209@thailand.it.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: ietf-nntp New Chairs for NNTPEXT To: ietf-nntp@academ.com Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 18:02:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk > Mario Valente wrote: > > Since I only recently joined the mailing list I would like to pose a > > question, > > related to an idea of mine on the redesign of NNTP and Usenet: currently > > the RFC states that for a SENDME or ARTICLE request, the *entire* article > > should be sent. I have this idea whereby only the headers would be sent > > and stored and the body of the articles requested on demand. This would > > lead to changes in both NNTP and probably in the format of the messages > > themselves. > > > > Has this been discussed already ? If yes under what subject, since I was > > unable to find any info on the mailing list archive ? > > > > If needed I can expose further on my idea. Its quite simple in RFC terms, > > quite simple in implementation terms (at least INNwise) and would save > > tons of bandwidth and disk space. I think this idea has a great deal of merit. We mention this possibility in our paper, "A Scalable News Architecture on a Single Spool", in the June '97 ;login: and at: http://www.earthlink.net/company/scale_news_art.html. It would be my recommendation that we finish work on the 977 update first (finally!), get some consensus on what the current necessary extensions are (like auth), and then start thinking about next generation architectures. At this point, I think talking about how to go about retiring store-and-forward is probably a pretty good idea. > Somone once mentioned to me that they consider one of the strengths of > NNTP/Usenet is that there is never just one copy of something. It makes > it alot harder for the Scientologists when they need to sue 10,000 > admins to remove content. Well, I don't see this as a real problem if you overcome some of the other things that are necessary to make this work. For example, if someone posts a very popular porn image from their small ISP, podunk.net, this machine could get slammed after distributing the header for article requests. Certainly a caching model would be necessary and a hierarchical cache along the channels of news feeds would make most sense, it seems to me. In this case, the scenario you fear is not significantly more likely than it is now. Of course, this suggests a lot of other problems, but I'll leave those as an exercise. ;-) I probably shouldn't have gone this far, as it's not really germaine to what needs to be accomplished now, but perhaps this will stimulate some discussion. Hopefully, it provides impetus to finish the boring stuff so we can get to work on the fun stuff. -- Nick Christenson npc@earthlink.net   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa07227; 7 Aug 97 9:00 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid IAA18750 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA20602; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 07:49:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (root@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20597 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 07:49:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.esoterica.pt (brilthor.esoterica.pt [194.130.254.9]) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23274 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 07:49:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gothmog.esoterica.pt (gothmog.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.194]) by mail.esoterica.pt (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA15328; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:50:12 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970807135206.0071fb10@mail.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: mvalente@mail.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 13:52:06 +0100 To: Brian Hernacki From: Mario Valente Subject: Re: ietf-nntp New Chairs for NNTPEXT Cc: ietf-nntp@academ.com, ned@innosoft.com In-Reply-To: <33E90F9C.A15659B9@netscape.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19970805153604.00726534@mail.esoterica.pt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk >> related to an idea of mine on the redesign of NNTP and Usenet: currently >> the RFC states that for a SENDME or ARTICLE request, the *entire* article >> should be sent. I have this idea whereby only the headers would be sent >> and stored and the body of the articles requested on demand. This would >> lead to changes in both NNTP and probably in the format of the messages >> themselves. >> > >Somone once mentioned to me that they consider one of the strengths of >NNTP/Usenet is that there is never just one copy of something. It makes >it alot harder for the Scientologists when they need to sue 10,000 >admins to remove content. > There wouldnt be a single copy of an article. There would be a single copy if no one in all the world decided to read that article and so that article would only reside on the server where it was posted; every other server would only have the headers. If *someone* anywhere in the world read that article, there would be two copies: one on the server where the message was posted and one on the server that requested it; an N copies for each N servers that requested it. C U! MV   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa07882; 7 Aug 97 9:29 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid JAA18828 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA20701; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:23:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (root@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20696 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:23:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.esoterica.pt (brilthor.esoterica.pt [194.130.254.9]) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23334 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:23:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gothmog.esoterica.pt (gothmog.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.194]) by mail.esoterica.pt (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17800; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:23:56 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970807142550.00724918@mail.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: mvalente@mail.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 14:25:50 +0100 To: Nick Christenson , ietf-nntp@academ.com From: Mario Valente Subject: Re: ietf-nntp New Chairs for NNTPEXT In-Reply-To: <199708070102.SAA29209@thailand.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk >> > related to an idea of mine on the redesign of NNTP and Usenet: currently >> > the RFC states that for a SENDME or ARTICLE request, the *entire* article >> > should be sent. I have this idea whereby only the headers would be sent >> > and stored and the body of the articles requested on demand. This would >> > lead to changes in both NNTP and probably in the format of the messages >> > themselves. >> > >> Somone once mentioned to me that they consider one of the strengths of >> NNTP/Usenet is that there is never just one copy of something. It makes >> it alot harder for the Scientologists when they need to sue 10,000 >> admins to remove content. > >For example, if someone posts a very popular porn image from their small >ISP, podunk.net, this machine could get slammed after distributing the >header for article requests. Certainly a caching model would be necessary >and a hierarchical cache along the channels of news feeds would make most >sense, it seems to me. In this case, the scenario you fear is not This is precisely the idea. My upstream receives an article. Lets assume for now that its the full article. Since I'm on its newsfeeds file it sends me the article. BUT it only sends (and my server only stores) the headers. If no one (on my network) ever requests that article, I'll just have wasted the bandwidth and disk for the headers. If someone requests the article, then my server detects that it doesnt have the body and requests it from the upstream server. This first person requesting the article will see some delay, but all the others that request the same article will have it already stored on the local machine. Let me just add that I have done this already and it works and it doesnt even need any NNTP extensions or commands or whatever. I just modified innd to send (upstream) and to store (downstream) just the headers; and then modified in.nnrpd to detect a missing body ( no lines matching Lines: header) and issue a SENDME to the upstream server. It takes no more than 20 lines or so of code. The NNTP protocol only has to be modified because it states that "the entire article should be sent" as a response to a SENDME or ARTICLE request. C U! -- Mario Valente   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa19478; 26 Aug 97 19:45 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid TAA08523 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA25114; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:40:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (root@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25109 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:40:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from eemail.microsoft.com (eemail.microsoft.com [131.107.1.244]) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00146 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:40:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ims.microsoft.com - 131.107.1.244 by eemail.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:40:25 -0700 Received: from natba1.dns.microsoft.com - 157.55.23.225 by ims.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:40:24 -0700 Reply-To: Nat Ballou From: Nat Ballou To: ietf-nntp@academ.com MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at ietf.org Subject: Re: ietf-nntp New Chairs for NNTPEXT Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:36:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1008.3 X-MimeOle: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3 Message-ID: <006de2440231a87DF_IMSMAIL@ims.microsoft.com> Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk Sooooo ... any chance we might see some new drafts soon? Perhaps before the next IETF meeting ;-) How about at least renewing some existing drafts - like the BCP draft? Nat -----Original Message----- From: Keith Moore To: ietf-nntp@academ.com Cc: moore@cs.utk.edu ; Harald Alvestrand ; sob@academ.com ; ned@INNOSOFT.COM Date: Monday, August 04, 1997 3:25 PM Subject: ietf-nntp New Chairs for NNTPEXT I'm pleased to announce that Stan Barber and Ned Freed have agreed to take over as co-chairs for NNTPEXT. Their appointment takes effect immediately. Please welcome them! Keith   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa20003; 26 Aug 97 20:29 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid UAA08616 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA25278; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:28:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (sob@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25273 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:28:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from sob@localhost) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00938; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:28:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199708270028.TAA00938@academ.com> From: Stan Barber Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:28:18 CDT X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Nat Ballou , ietf-nntp@academ.com MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at ietf.org Subject: Re: ietf-nntp New Chairs for NNTPEXT Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk I quote from a message I sent on July 10th: ------ Since I have heard nothing from the chair, I don't plan to go to Germany. I have seen no notes from the Memphis meeting, so in the next version of the draft (which will be out before September 1), it will reflect the thoughts from the mailing list and the last meeting I did attend only. There was also an update of the "common practices" draft in April that I have received a little feedback on which will see another interation before the Washington IETF. Hopefully we have enough consensus on that document that it can be moved forward as an Informational RFC. ------ Today is not yet September 1, so the new son-of-rfc977 draft is not yet available. However, it is my intent to do what I said I would do. As for the "common practices" draft, I expect to get that done before October 1. Ned and I have to setup a new schedule and revise the milestones. I am hopeful we will do that in September. If you have any comments about it, send it to the list. It is my expectation that we will meet in DC to discuss both documents. I am hopeful we will be able to move forward one or both of them, but alot of that is going to depend on how much we can do on the list once the drafts are released. -- Stan | Academ Consulting Services |internet: sob@academ.com Olan | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa20062; 26 Aug 97 20:33 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid UAA08631 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:37:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA25332; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:33:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (root@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25326 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:33:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01265; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:33:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fusion.mcom.com (fusion.mcom.com [205.217.255.82]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17812; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([205.217.228.45]) by fusion.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 120; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:32:45 -0700 Message-ID: <340374FB.FD1B56D2@netscape.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:29:47 -0700 From: Brian Hernacki Organization: Netscape, Floating Point Division X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02b8 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stan Barber CC: Nat Ballou , ietf-nntp@academ.com Subject: Re: ietf-nntp New Chairs for NNTPEXT References: <199708270028.TAA00938@academ.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk Stan Barber wrote: > > I quote from a message I sent on July 10th: > ------ > Since I have heard nothing from the chair, I don't plan to go to Germany. > > I have seen no notes from the Memphis meeting, so in the next version of the > draft (which will be out before September 1), it will reflect the thoughts > from the mailing list and the last meeting I did attend only. > > There was also an update of the "common practices" draft in April that I > have received a little feedback on which will see another interation before > the Washington IETF. Hopefully we have enough consensus on that document > that it can be moved forward as an Informational RFC. > ------ > Today is not yet September 1, so the new son-of-rfc977 draft is not yet > available. However, it is my intent to do what I said I would do. > > As for the "common practices" draft, I expect to get that done before October > 1. > > Ned and I have to setup a new schedule and revise the milestones. I am > hopeful we will do that in September. If you have any comments about it, > send it to the list. > > It is my expectation that we will meet in DC to discuss both documents. I > am hopeful we will be able to move forward one or both of them, but alot > of that is going to depend on how much we can do on the list once the > drafts are released. I was under the impression that somone *did* provide you with notes from Memphis. --brian   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa20379; 26 Aug 97 20:59 EDT Received: from announcer.academ.com (majordomo@ANNOUNCER.ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.60]) by cnri.reston.va.us (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTPid VAA08733 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA25494; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:58:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from academ.com (sob@ACADEM.COM [198.137.249.2]) by announcer.academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25489 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:58:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from sob@localhost) by academ.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA01356; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:58:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199708270058.TAA01356@academ.com> From: Stan Barber Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:58:28 CDT X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Brian Hernacki Subject: Re: ietf-nntp New Chairs for NNTPEXT Cc: Nat Ballou , ietf-nntp@academ.com Sender: owner-ietf-nntp@academ.com Precedence: bulk Brian writes: > Stan Barber wrote: > > > > I quote from a message I sent on July 10th: > > ------ > > Since I have heard nothing from the chair, I don't plan to go to Germany. > > > > I have seen no notes from the Memphis meeting, ... [rest of the message > > deleted] > I was under the impression that somone *did* provide you with notes from > Memphis. Yes, some notes were mailed to the list July 11th. That was the first notes of from that meeting that I saw. See a message from Robert Elz in the archives. -- Stan | Academ Consulting Services |internet: sob@academ.com Olan | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.