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[2001:1900:3001:11::2c]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id yt10si1916624pac.47.2014.08.06.15.33.45 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Aug 2014 15:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of abnf-discuss-bounces@ietf.org designates 2001:1900:3001:11::2c as permitted sender) client-ip=2001:1900:3001:11::2c; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of abnf-discuss-bounces@ietf.org designates 2001:1900:3001:11::2c as permitted sender) smtp.mail=abnf-discuss-bounces@ietf.org; dkim=pass header.i=@ietf.org; dmarc=fail (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16F01B2795; Wed, 6 Aug 2014 15:33:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1407364425; bh=qU/bttuB4RKwOmzVsN18G1E2MqYIutJ8ISGe1vFTJ4k=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Subject:List-Id:List-Unsubscribe:List-Archive:List-Post:List-Help: List-Subscribe:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Sender; b=PsGa+yWdqY3WTNwk/bPjhrZqrmkJZGe/VnfyoGxf51YlmHijFEvx1S21jbO/6vxAs sx//XceOyDHCi8YcZRfiWlZ/y0DlpZh/XG5V2NaUxQvYQXtUADPQKQ5X+cBK69/BSV GIDIShII2pex/48mA4fLCo/87+NuiL20M1VzJ0Vc= X-Original-To: abnf-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: abnf-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CA471A0336 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2014 15:33:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q962g7mtBYJm for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2014 15:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x232.google.com (mail-pa0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08C021A0037 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2014 15:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f50.google.com with SMTP id et14so4199218pad.37 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 15:33:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZhpzxKDESdqoBFNFwYZ7mCfWsWV+OMJQQG7hy8+QJo0=; b=vFMbO9kgBWtvcW1Z8vWXQIA6h0sqJO9OpqXBt3sW0vaef+lz//SBWJDRAAqGFdzj70 yMQXQKvy5EdWWMhOqIK4X5/2KxSKIZ+xUi3S+fsPB5DKJ7f4UgPwjZY3DcJx4Ikf2vUx hL5B9oI2jVNgHaw9daqaw17hhX1V6Mkc12cTEmsUsfzcPRnFod7ar+6p85Cl4uZVJIs6 YrRcggV3mf8hKgdEE9deZVe4rn+fGbmqau8V26xbdwUnyM1Uv7FUoCwU8ClqyNmLTBuy +ih2mc6seYgDHGXPamojscRrwOsqwNl5U8dAl/9mPvV1CUT9HUlLb/2wNL/hZTy2fVOo qi+w== X-Received: by 10.70.88.105 with SMTP id bf9mr14094271pdb.54.1407364420503; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 15:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.251.200.130] ([69.162.16.14]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w7sm2310913pbs.74.2014.08.06.15.33.38 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Aug 2014 15:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53E2ACBD.5030309@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 15:31:25 -0700 From: Dave Crocker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Kyzivat , "abnf-discuss@ietf.org" References: <53E26154.8020308@alum.mit.edu> <53E26391.6060208@gmail.com> <53E27C4B.3050003@alum.mit.edu> <53E2A982.8000405@gmail.com> <53E2AC70.7050803@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <53E2AC70.7050803@alum.mit.edu> Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/abnf-discuss/SI_Vw3t1Txh9ylMYxLdBNzUU10g Subject: Re: [abnf-discuss] Case-sensitive string constants in ABNF? X-BeenThere: abnf-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussion about tools, activities and capabilities involving the ABNF meta-language" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: abnf-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Sender: "abnf-discuss" On 8/6/2014 3:30 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 8/6/14 6:17 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: >>> Maybe its just my age, but for me it remains the go-to tool for modest >>> grammars. It is very approachable - most people that have reason to >>> understand a formal syntax can pick up ABNF quickly. (The quoted strings >>> are the thing that seem most confusing.) >> >> I've no idea what you mean. Having 40 years invested in ABNF has >> created no procrustean momentum with me at all. I'm sure... > > Perhaps your procrustean momentum has some other cause. :-) I won't tolerate any other explanations. Mine fits. Yours must too. I'm glad to extend of truncate it accordingly. Some politely call it technical editing. hah! > My point was just that maybe the "youngsters" prefer something else. If > so I don't know what it is. > > Rather, I think the momentum is against specialized syntaxes and in > favor of using XML. But, while XML has its place, I think it is used too > much these days. Actually it's a mix of laziness and skepticism. Doing the more ambitious change properly would almost certainly be a more difficult effort. And I doubt there is anything close to sufficient community interest to carry it forward to being useful. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net _______________________________________________ abnf-discuss mailing list abnf-discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/abnf-discuss