X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Delivered-To: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.163.148 with SMTP id m142csp73426ioe; Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:51:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.143.165 with SMTP id sf5mr31817364pbb.103.1407628307404; Sat, 09 Aug 2014 16:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org. [2001:1900:3001:11::2c]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dp2si6948326pbc.254.2014.08.09.16.51.46 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 09 Aug 2014 16:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of abnf-discuss-bounces@ietf.org designates 2001:1900:3001:11::2c as permitted sender) client-ip=2001:1900:3001:11::2c; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of abnf-discuss-bounces@ietf.org designates 2001:1900:3001:11::2c as permitted sender) smtp.mail=abnf-discuss-bounces@ietf.org; dkim=pass header.i=@ietf.org Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103AB1A03B5; Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:51:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1407628306; bh=8RSH6KXGop/gYEu1CdD0zpjb0xAYIEv0LlgOi44Pqb8=; h=MIME-version:Message-id:Date:From:In-reply-to:References:To:Cc: Subject:List-Id:List-Unsubscribe:List-Archive:List-Post:List-Help: List-Subscribe:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Sender; b=y01rX31Re4kTw1qEbUotjdT7+NSxxiC2GFkPw02jziz+GQ/rz5QYElajsK42ShNkx J+8IODAVR6ZRZNO8gmJswX+0RcsMux9ryDvYF6gUGlMUgYFI/sRTkQYrTzTSxxOu9D DlqSP33nw/uirKJq1taGh0pyFqg+eeHqS0TUeXQQ= X-Original-To: abnf-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: abnf-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3401A03B4 for ; Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:51:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.63 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.63 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MIfXV_gLcXto for ; Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [66.159.242.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E94E1A03AE for ; Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01PB6MHCR8V4000ROP@mauve.mrochek.com> for abnf-discuss@ietf.org; Sat, 9 Aug 2014 16:46:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1407628013; bh=qjbpgS8Kwsl8gv+kyNgsNNzkPFEI7JaoRZOROcm/oQs=; h=Cc:Date:From:Subject:In-reply-to:References:To; b=ACHUlS7XQqIy3CwhNItbmZlYBj5j5qMZh+L1g85ZRJfIap0XLGRaFG5f8nyVZbMx+ PK5XoE1yM9iABJuVRvFJYpPQybR9+LHzROQnjUhsiiB5Qf5tm+J82KVyG5IvqRN50J 5ISq7t+eYFbtC2StQhkuc3IVf6n//UTLUs2hykHk= MIME-version: 1.0 Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01PB2RFWCBO00000SM@mauve.mrochek.com>; Sat, 09 Aug 2014 16:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-id: <01PB6MHAOOMO0000SM@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 16:37:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed In-reply-to: "Your message dated Fri, 08 Aug 2014 15:44:10 +0000" <37269A74-EC2D-428B-9082-8CA2D8B00574@cisco.com> References: <53E26154.8020308@alum.mit.edu> <01PB24L5SC060000SM@mauve.mrochek.com> <53E27A1A.10609@alum.mit.edu> <01PB4MM257OE0000SM@mauve.mrochek.com> <0EFEDBFE-D322-4DB4-A5AC-CBDBA49D5118@cisco.com> <37269A74-EC2D-428B-9082-8CA2D8B00574@cisco.com> To: "Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/abnf-discuss/5-GXYF1Or4zYM6JmnA7TOFNKjco Cc: Ned Freed , "abnf-discuss@ietf.org" , Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [abnf-discuss] Case-sensitive string constants in ABNF? X-BeenThere: abnf-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussion about tools, activities and capabilities involving the ABNF meta-language" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: abnf-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Sender: "abnf-discuss" > And of course, now that I'm at a computer, I realize we more-or-less did > that anyway, but didn't really talk about it much. e.g.: > unescaped = %x20-21 / %x23-5B / %x5D-10FFFF > I would much have preferred to be able to have an easy way of saying > "unicode scalar value except for C0 controls, dquote, or backslash", then > having a rational discussion about whether there are other controls or > non-printable classes that should be excluded. The second you start talking about including or excluding things by class, you have to deal with Unicode versioning and all it implies. I don't have a problem with putting this stuff in things like regular expressions. But ABNF is another matter. It's supposed to be a specification language, and there's sufficient gorp involved in being precise about Unicode I'd really rather not try to encode in into core syntax of ABNF. > As it is, I *hate* that it > looks like half surrogate pairs are allowed, except in our world there's > technically no way to get them into this grammar. In the JavaScript > world, that's not the case, and some implementations generate CESU instead > of UTF-8 (for example), causing compliant implementations to reject the > protocol on decode. Worse, some implementations blindly replace the > surrogate with U+FFFD, losing data. Unless these implementation choices are a result of the ABNF's failure to explicitly exclude the half surrogate non-code points, this looks to me to something that ABNF extensions cannot solve. > My point is that without slightly better ways to reason about > unicode-based protocols, we're likely to repeat similar mistakes in the > future leading to worse interop than we want. It's far from clear to me that extending ABNF provides a solution to these problems. Ned _______________________________________________ abnf-discuss mailing list abnf-discuss@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/abnf-discuss