From daniele@zk3.dec.com  Wed Apr  1 10:07:51 1998
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Message-Id: <9804011554.AA13769@bernie.zk3.dec.com>
To: agentx@peer.com
Subject: Re: tcp and unix address values  
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 31 Mar 98 13:41:55 EST."
             <3.0.5.32.19980331134155.0097d870@nips.acec.com> 
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 98 10:54:18 -0500
From: Mike Daniele <daniele@zk3.dec.com>
X-Mts: smtp

Hi,

>[Re-posting in case anyone else had trouble with the attachment - BobN]

Thanks Bob.

Smitha said:
>This is regarding textual convention for tcp and unix addresses. 
>As IP v6 has 6 bytes for address, should we define TCP address
>in terms of IP v6?

>If we were to define in terms of IP v6,  then the display for 
>	IP v6:  "1d.1d.1d.1d.1d.1d/2d" 

Fyi, I posted suggested IPv6 changes to RFC 1906 to the SNMPv3 list
a while back.  Hopefully they will be a useful reference.

-- SNMPv2 over UDP over IPv6
 
 snmpUDPv6Domain  OBJECT-IDENTITY
     STATUS     current
     DESCRIPTION
             "The SNMPv2 over UDP over IPv6 transport domain.  
             The corresponding transport address is of type SnmpUDPv6Address."
     ::= { snmpDomains 6 }
 
 SnmpUDPv6Address ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION
     DISPLAY-HINT "2x:2x:2x:2x:2x:2x:2x:2x/2d"
     STATUS       current
     DESCRIPTION
             "Represents a UDP over IPv6 address:
 
                octets   contents        encoding
                 1-16    IPv6-address    network-byte order
                 17-18   UDP-port        network-byte order
             "
     SYNTAX       OCTET STRING (SIZE (18))

Juergen said:
>These things should IMHO be defined in an annex to RFC 1903, as
>discussed in the SNMPv3 meeting today. These definitions are needed by
>several MIBs, not only AgentX.

I'm not attending the current IETF, so don't know what happened in the
meeting. But I agree with this statement.  I'd like to see (at least) 
TCP and UDP over IPv4 and v6 defined in the SNMPv2/3 infrastructure somewhere.
UNIX domain sockets probably wouldn't be considered appropriate for
such inclusion...

>Other than that, I think the definition of agentxUNIXAddress does not
>work. 

You're right.  A UNIX domain socket endpoint is a file name,
not an IP address.  (RFC 2257 specifies the master bind to
"/var/agentx/master".)  So the TAddress defined for it has to
be variable length.  Something like this:

 UNIXTCPAddress ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION
     DISPLAY-HINT ???
     STATUS       current
     DESCRIPTION
             "Represents a TCP over UNIX-domain sockets endpoint:

                octets       contents        	  encoding
                1 to (n-2)   UNIX domain address  string
                (n-1) to n  TCP-port        	  network-byte order

	      where 'n' is the total length of the OCTET STRING.
             "
     SYNTAX       OCTET STRING

>BTW, has someone contacts to POSIX folks? I have hear rumors
>that they will define something like posix domain sockets, just to
>avoid the word UNIX. We should probably try to align our terminology
>if there is serious work to standardize UNIX sockets within POSIX.

We have some folks who should know this, I'll try and track it down.

Regards,
Mike

From schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de  Thu Apr  2 00:40:49 1998
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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
To: daniele@zk3.dec.com
CC: agentx@peer.com
In-reply-to: <9804011554.AA13769@bernie.zk3.dec.com> (message from Mike
	Daniele on Wed, 01 Apr 98 10:54:18 -0500)
Subject: Re: tcp and unix address values
References:  <9804011554.AA13769@bernie.zk3.dec.com>


>>>>> Mike Daniele writes:

Mike> I'm not attending the current IETF, so don't know what happened
Mike> in the meeting. But I agree with this statement.  I'd like to
Mike> see (at least) TCP and UDP over IPv4 and v6 defined in the
Mike> SNMPv2/3 infrastructure somewhere.

There was a discussion to start a series of addendums to 1903 which
define additional frequently used TCs. This allows to progress 1903
while giving us a central place to collect all those transport address
definition, UTF8 strings, owner strings, ... that we have right now
spread over several documents.

There will be a set of workplans for all these action items that will
hopefully appear on the SNMPv3 mailing list soon so that we can do
these things quickly enough to not delay any of the MIBs currently
being finished. Wait for the meeting minutes for all the rest that
happened in the SNMPv3 meeting.
							Juergen
-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder  schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/~schoenw
Technical University Braunschweig, Dept. Operating Systems & Computer Networks
Bueltenweg 74/75, 38106 Braunschweig, Germany.        (Tel. +49 531 / 391 3283)

From bnatale@acecomm.com  Tue Apr  7 14:06:58 1998
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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:54:20 -0400
To: agentx@peer.com
From: Bob Natale <bnatale@acecomm.com>
Subject: AgentX bake-off - going once?
In-Reply-To: <199803302247.OAA00771@dorothy.peer.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>At 02:47 PM 3/30/98 -0800, Randy Presuhn wrote:

Hi everyone,

<...>
>The offer (from previous IETF meetings) of facilities for
>face-to-face bakeoffs at our Houston offices still stands.

Ok...thanks, Randy.  I guess we should start planning for
this event.  We need to fix on the date(s), place, and
scope.  This posting is just a "feeler" to elicit either
general agreement or alternatives for the basic logistics.
We can hammer out the finer details of scope a bit later
(but feel free to comment on that whenever you want).

Barring any alternative offers for consideration, we
will accept the BMC/Peer offer of facilities in Houston.
The only downsides I can see to that are:

	- Houston weather (if memory serves me correctly)
	  can be, errr, painful in the summer.

	- The location may impose a travel burden on those
	  from Europe who may want to attend.

On the positive side, I am sure that the facilities will
be technically (and otherwise!) superb and Houston is
generally equally accessible from just about every region
of the US.

As far as dates go, my *personal* preference is for late
July.

Other opinios, preferences, offers, suggestions?

Cordially,

BobN
------------ ISO 9001 Registered Quality Supplier -----------
Bob Natale         | ACE*COMM              | 301-721-3000 [v]
Dir, Net Mgmt Prod | 704 Quince Orchard Rd | 301-721-3001 [f]
bnatale@acecomm.com| Gaithersburg MD 20878 | www.acecomm.com
---- WinSNMP DLL, SDK, Apps & Agents for Win16/32 & UNIX ----
------ NetPlus (r) "FCAPS" Telemanagement Applications ------


From Lauren_Heintz@bmc.com  Tue Apr  7 16:37:31 1998
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Message-ID: <352A991E.286E@bmc.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:22:38 -0700
From: Lauren Heintz <Lauren_Heintz@bmc.com>
Reply-To: Lauren_Heintz@bmc.com
Organization: Peer
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To: bnatale@acecomm.com
CC: agentx@peer.com, snmpv3@tis.com, Ned Corry <Ned_Corry@bmc.com>,
        Edmund Chang <Edmund_Chang@bmc.com>
Subject: Re: AgentX bake-off - going once?
References: <3.0.5.32.19980407145420.009a0da0@nips.acec.com>
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Hello,

Randy asked me to respond to Bob's message....

We very much support the notion of having agentx bake-off
for late July in our Houston offices.  Also, we would
like to suggest that we combine the SNMPv3 bakeoff into
the same event (thus, this cross-post to the snmpv3 list).
This would help minimize travel expenses for everyone and
possibly assure wider attendance, and such.

Regarding weather concerns, I can assure you that the
BMC offices, the area hotels, and the rental cars
are all air-conditioned. :-)

Lauren



bnatale@acecomm.com wrote:
> 
> >At 02:47 PM 3/30/98 -0800, Randy Presuhn wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> <...>
> >The offer (from previous IETF meetings) of facilities for
> >face-to-face bakeoffs at our Houston offices still stands.
> 
> Ok...thanks, Randy.  I guess we should start planning for
> this event.  We need to fix on the date(s), place, and
> scope.  This posting is just a "feeler" to elicit either
> general agreement or alternatives for the basic logistics.
> We can hammer out the finer details of scope a bit later
> (but feel free to comment on that whenever you want).
> 
> Barring any alternative offers for consideration, we
> will accept the BMC/Peer offer of facilities in Houston.
> The only downsides I can see to that are:
> 
>         - Houston weather (if memory serves me correctly)
>           can be, errr, painful in the summer.
> 
>         - The location may impose a travel burden on those
>           from Europe who may want to attend.
> 
> On the positive side, I am sure that the facilities will
> be technically (and otherwise!) superb and Houston is
> generally equally accessible from just about every region
> of the US.
> 
> As far as dates go, my *personal* preference is for late
> July.
> 
> Other opinios, preferences, offers, suggestions?
> 
> Cordially,
> 
> BobN
> ------------ ISO 9001 Registered Quality Supplier -----------
> Bob Natale         | ACE*COMM              | 301-721-3000 [v]
> Dir, Net Mgmt Prod | 704 Quince Orchard Rd | 301-721-3001 [f]
> bnatale@acecomm.com| Gaithersburg MD 20878 | www.acecomm.com
> ---- WinSNMP DLL, SDK, Apps & Agents for Win16/32 & UNIX ----
> ------ NetPlus (r) "FCAPS" Telemanagement Applications ------

-- 


 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Lauren Heintz            BMC Software, Inc. (Silicon Valley Division)
 Voice: +1 408 616-3169   (Formerly PEER Networks)  http://www.bmc.com
 Fax:   +1 408 616-3339   965 Stewart Drive 
 Email: Lheintz@bmc.com   Sunnyvale, California 94086  USA
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    My opinions are my own and not necessarily those of BMC Software.
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

From rpresuhn@dorothy.peer.com  Tue Apr 14 11:24:02 1998
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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:08:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Randy Presuhn <rpresuhn@dorothy.peer.com>
Message-Id: <199804141608.JAA15589@dorothy.peer.com>
To: agentx@peer.com
Subject: agentx API work
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Hi - 

I see the program for next week's IEEE systems management workshop
includes a work-in-progress session on rapid agent development.
(http://www.csd.uwo.ca/conf/smw3.html)

It might be interesting to see how this fits in with agentx API work.
Is anyone else currently doing anything along those lines?  

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Randy Presuhn           Email: rpresuhn@peer.com     http://www.bmc.com     
 Voice: +1 408 616-3100  BMC Software, Inc.           965 Stewart Drive
 Fax:   +1 408 616-3101  Sunnyvale, California 94086  USA
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 In accordance with the BMC Communications Systems Use and Security
 Policy, I explicitly state that although my affiliation with BMC may be
 apparent, implied, or provided, my opinions are not necessarily those
 of BMC Software and that all external representations on behalf of
 BMC must first be cleared with a member of "the top management team."
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
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Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-agentx-mib-02.txt
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:44:34 -0400
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the SNMP Agent Extensibility Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Definitions of Managed Objects for Extensible SNMP Agents
	Author(s)	: M. Greene, S. Gudur
	Filename	: draft-ietf-agentx-mib-02.txt
	Pages		: 18
	Date		: 15-Apr-98
	
This memo defines an experimental portion of the Management Information
Base (MIB) for use with network management protocols in the Internet
community.  In particular, it describes objects managing SNMP agents
that use the Agent Extensibility (AgentX) Protocol.
 
This memo specifies a MIB module in a manner that is both compliant to
the SNMPv2 SMI, and semantically identical to the peer SNMPv1
definitions.
 
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From schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de  Thu Apr 16 11:21:52 1998
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Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:12:08 +0200
Message-Id: <199804161612.SAA15193@henkell.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
To: agentx@peer.com
CC: bnatale@acec.com, mundy@tis.com, wijnen@vnet.ibm.com,
        Harald.Alvestrand@maxware.no
In-reply-to: <199804161344.JAA03090@ns.ietf.org> (Internet-Drafts@ietf.org)
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-agentx-mib-02.txt
References:  <199804161344.JAA03090@ns.ietf.org>


Nice to see the current AgentX MIB being published as an ID. I have
found the following minor problem while compiling the MIB: The
AGENTX-MIB imports TDomain and TAddress from SNMPv2-SMI, which is not
correct. TDomain and TAddress are defined in SNMPv2-TC.

I am still concerned to see definitions for Utf8String (which is
already similarily defined in RFC 2287) and AgentxTCPAddress in this
MIB. I think they should be moved to an RFC 1903 addendum, as
discussed in the SNMPv3 meeting in LA. This also affects the IPv6 TC
definitions posted to the SNMPv3 mailing list a few weeks ago. The
problem is that this addendum will most likely be done by the SNMPv3
WG (or even a special SMIv2 WG) and that this might delay other MIBs
that want to use this stuff. So we need to get the responsible people
(WG chairman and ADs) to figure out quickly how this is going to be
done in a timely manner.

I will certainly volunteer to collect reusable definitions from
various IDs and to put them together into an RFC 1903 addendum ID, if
people want this to happen. However, I first need a signal from the
"officials" (people in the CC list) that this is the way to proceed
and where this stuff belongs to.
							Juergen
-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder  schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/~schoenw
Technical University Braunschweig, Dept. Operating Systems & Computer Networks
Bueltenweg 74/75, 38106 Braunschweig, Germany.        (Tel. +49 531 / 391 3283)

From info@cigi.com  Wed Apr 22 01:48:17 1998
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Message-Id: <199804220637.CAA26721@newman.concentric.net>
To: agentx@peer.com
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From daniele@zk3.dec.com  Mon Apr 27 13:10:36 1998
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To: agentx@peer.com
Subject: Re: tcp and unix address values 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 98 13:47:48 -0400
From: Mike Daniele <daniele@zk3.dec.com>
X-Mts: smtp

Earlier Juergen had asked

>BTW, has someone contacts to POSIX folks? I have hear rumors
>that they will define something like posix domain sockets, just to
>avoid the word UNIX. We should probably try to align our terminology
>if there is serious work to standardize UNIX sockets within POSIX.

and I replied
>We have some folks who should know this, I'll try and track it down.

Well, I tried to track it down.  To the best of my knowledge there
is no move away from the term "UNIX domain socket".

Mike

From schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de  Tue Apr 28 05:27:52 1998
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Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:17:44 +0200
Message-Id: <199804281017.MAA22362@henkell.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
To: agentx@peer.com
Subject: index allocation
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII


Let assume I want to allocate an index for ifTable. I set the
NEW_INDEX flag because I want a new index not previously allocated.  I
set v.type to Integer and v.data to some arbitrary value. The question
is: What is the correct value for v.name? Is it the OID for ifIndex or
do I have to provide a pseude instance identifier, e.g. ifIndex.0?

Now, lets assume I want to allocate an index for fooTable, indexed by
fooIndex. This time, I do not set NEW_INDEX nor ANY_INDEX. (So v.data
is the index I would like to have allocated.) Does the OID for v.name
contain an instance identifer (v.data) or not? What happens if the
instance identifier is there but does not match v.data?

I guess v.name must have an instance identifier in all cases, even if
it is ignored in some cases. However, the description in RFC 2257 does
not tell me precisely what a subagent is supposed to put into an
agentx-IndexAllocate-PDU.  (A master can only guess whether there is
an instance identifier or not without having MIB knowledge.)

							Juergen


From daniele@zk3.dec.com  Tue Apr 28 08:18:55 1998
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To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
Cc: agentx@peer.com
Subject: Re: index allocation  
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 28 Apr 98 12:17:44 +0200."
             <199804281017.MAA22362@henkell.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 09:07:05 -0400
From: Mike Daniele <daniele@zk3.dec.com>
X-Mts: smtp

Juergen asked:

>Let assume I want to allocate an index for ifTable. I set the
>NEW_INDEX flag because I want a new index not previously allocated.  I
>set v.type to Integer and v.data to some arbitrary value. The question
>is: What is the correct value for v.name? Is it the OID for ifIndex or
>do I have to provide a pseude instance identifier, e.g. ifIndex.0?

I would expect the oid prefix `ifIndex'.

>Now, lets assume I want to allocate an index for fooTable, indexed by
>fooIndex. This time, I do not set NEW_INDEX nor ANY_INDEX. (So v.data
>is the index I would like to have allocated.) Does the OID for v.name
>contain an instance identifer (v.data) or not? What happens if the
>instance identifier is there but does not match v.data?

Again, v.name should be the oid prefix `fooIndex'.

>I guess v.name must have an instance identifier in all cases, even if
>it is ignored in some cases. 

My thinking was that v.name would never containing instance information,
it would always be the oid prefix of an index object.  That just seemed
the simplest.

>However, the description in RFC 2257 does
>not tell me precisely what a subagent is supposed to put into an
>agentx-IndexAllocate-PDU.  (A master can only guess whether there is
>an instance identifier or not without having MIB knowledge.)

You are correct, the text in 7.1.2 and 7.1.3 should be clearer about the
contents of v.name.  

Mike



From sar@epilogue.com  Tue Apr 28 13:22:38 1998
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From: "Shawn A. Routhier" <sar@epilogue.com>
Sender: sar@khitomer.epilogue.com
To: daniele@zk3.dec.com
CC: schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, agentx@peer.com
In-reply-to: <9804281307.AA32053@bernie.zk3.dec.com> (message from Mike
	Daniele on Tue, 28 Apr 98 09:07:05 -0400)
Subject: Re: index allocation
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 14:09:18 -0400
Message-ID:  <9804281409.aa17819@khitomer.epilogue.com>

   Cc: agentx@peer.com
   Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 09:07:05 -0400
   From: Mike Daniele <daniele@zk3.dec.com>
   X-Mts: smtp

   Juergen asked:
<snip>
   About what the proper OID for v.name is during index allocation.

   Mike Daniele replied:
<snip>
   That he expected that v.name would be the oid prefix for the object.

I interpreted RFC2257 in the same fashion as Mike did.

sar




From schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de  Tue Apr 28 14:19:56 1998
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Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:10:09 +0200
Message-Id: <199804281910.VAA24910@henkell.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
To: daniele@zk3.dec.com
CC: agentx@peer.com
In-reply-to: <9804281307.AA32053@bernie.zk3.dec.com> (message from Mike
	Daniele on Tue, 28 Apr 98 09:07:05 -0400)
Subject: Re: index allocation
References:  <9804281307.AA32053@bernie.zk3.dec.com>
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>>>>> Mike Daniele writes:

Mike> My thinking was that v.name would never containing instance
Mike> information, it would always be the oid prefix of an index
Mike> object.  That just seemed the simplest.

Thanks Mike, this interpretation is fine with me. Anyway, this is
something that should be clarified in a revision of the RFC.

I have another question. Lets assume I have a fooTable indexed by two
columns fooA and fooB. I want to allocate a single entry in the
table. I would send an agentx-IndexAllocate-PDU with v.name1 = fooA,
and v.name2 = fooB. The corresponding data elements contain the index
values I would like to allocate. Is this correct?

If yes, what happens if I want to allocate indexes for two rows in
fooTable? Am I correct to send an agentx-IndexAllocate-PDU with
v.name1 = fooA, v.name2 = fooB, v.name3 = fooA and v.name4 = fooB and
appropriate data elements?  What happens if the data elements v.data1
and v.data3 have the same value?

I other words: How are complex index values grouped together? The text
in section 7.1.2 looks like if each VarBind element is processed in
isolation.
							Juergen

Juergen Schoenwaelder  schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/~schoenw
Technical University Braunschweig, Dept. Operating Systems & Computer Networks
Bueltenweg 74/75, 38106 Braunschweig, Germany.        (Tel. +49 531 / 391 3283)

From daniele@zk3.dec.com  Wed Apr 29 10:22:21 1998
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To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
Cc: agentx@peer.com
Subject: Re: index allocation  
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 28 Apr 98 21:10:09 +0200."
             <199804281910.VAA24910@henkell.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> 
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 11:06:42 -0400
From: Mike Daniele <daniele@zk3.dec.com>
X-Mts: smtp

>Thanks Mike, this interpretation is fine with me. Anyway, this is
>something that should be clarified in a revision of the RFC.

Agreed.  Bob, Dale, are we keeping a list of suggested revisions?

>I have another question. Lets assume I have a fooTable indexed by two
>columns fooA and fooB. I want to allocate a single entry in the
>table. I would send an agentx-IndexAllocate-PDU with v.name1 = fooA,
>and v.name2 = fooB. The corresponding data elements contain the index
>values I would like to allocate. Is this correct?

Yes, as described in the 4th paragraph of 7.1.3.

>If yes, what happens if I want to allocate indexes for two rows in
>fooTable? Am I correct to send an agentx-IndexAllocate-PDU with
>v.name1 = fooA, v.name2 = fooB, v.name3 = fooA and v.name4 = fooB and
>appropriate data elements?

You could certainly do so if you wished.  Or you could send multiple 
agentx-IndexAllocate-PDUs, each containing fewer varbinds.
If you were requesting specific indexes be allocated, yes you'd
place those values in the appropriate v.data elements.

>What happens if the data elements v.data1 and v.data3 have the same value?

Then one of them would fail, per step 4) (c) in 7.1.2.  And per step 4),
no index values would be allocated, and a response pdu indicating the error
would be returned.

>I other words: How are complex index values grouped together? The text
>in section 7.1.2 looks like if each VarBind element is processed in
>isolation.

They are, to the extent that each varbind contains a wholly defined
request for an index allocation, that can be processed individually.
(One way to think of it is that the master agent maintains a database
 keyed by v.name values.)

They are not, to the extent that if multiple varbinds are present in
the PDU, their index allocations either all succeed, or none succeed.

I hope I understood your question.  I don't understand why a subagent
would send multiple varbinds requesting exactly the same index allocation
(same v.name, same v.data, both NEW_INDEX and ANY_INDEX bits clear)
when the request can't possibly succeed...

Regards,
Mike

 

From schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de  Wed Apr 29 11:43:25 1998
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:32:48 +0200
Message-Id: <199804291632.SAA02782@henkell.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
To: daniele@zk3.dec.com
CC: agentx@peer.com
In-reply-to: <9804291506.AA00246@bernie.zk3.dec.com> (message from Mike
	Daniele on Wed, 29 Apr 98 11:06:42 -0400)
Subject: Re: index allocation
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>>>>> Mike Daniele writes:

Thanks for your response. We are obviously in agreement about how
index allocation works in RFC 2257. ;-)

Mike> I hope I understood your question.  I don't understand why a
Mike> subagent would send multiple varbinds requesting exactly the
Mike> same index allocation (same v.name, same v.data, both NEW_INDEX
Mike> and ANY_INDEX bits clear) when the request can't possibly
Mike> succeed...

Let me explain why I asked this question: In my fooTable, the index
for a particular row is the tuple (fooA, fooB). Lets assume I want to
allocate indexes for single rows. I first allocate row 1 indexed by
(1,1) and later row 2 indexed by (1,2). The second allocation will
fail in AgentX because AgentX does only allocate index values per
column name and the value 1 for column fooA is already allocated.

It is therefore not possible to allocate row 1 (1,1) in subagent 1 and
later allocate row 2 (1,2) in subagent 2, although the index values
(1,1) and (1,2) for the two rows are fine.

Now, the question is how much of a problem this is. I know of at least
one IETF MIB that could have a problem with this AgentX behaviour:

                <draft-ietf-applmib-mib-08.txt>

The application MIB has a notion of a service oriented view, which may
span several instrumented processes. Processes are expected to export
management information (e.g. some of the open channels for a given
service) via their build-in AgentX subagents. Allocating entries in
the application MIB tables that are indexes by service ID will only
work if subagents do not allocate the service ID. A subagent which
simply allocates all index elements for a row will allocate the
service ID and lock out all other subagents for the given service.

This is not a fatal problem as far as I understand it now because the
application MIB should be implementable with AgentX if the subagents
behave nicely. However, there might be other MIBs where this AgentX
limitation might be even more serious.

I just wanted to bring this issue up here so that we all know about it
and can decide whether any action is necessary or if this is one of
the limitations we accept for AgentX 1.0. If we accept this
limitation, we should probably add some text in section 7.1.3 which
talks about this issue and that a well-behaved subagent should only
allocate those index elements that are "essential" and not necessarily
all index elements of a given row.
							Juergen
-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder  schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de http://www.cs.tu-bs.de/~schoenw
Technical University Braunschweig, Dept. Operating Systems & Computer Networks
Bueltenweg 74/75, 38106 Braunschweig, Germany.        (Tel. +49 531 / 391 3283)



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To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
Cc: agentx@peer.com
Subject: Re: index allocation  
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 29 Apr 98 18:32:48 +0200."
             <199804291632.SAA02782@henkell.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> 
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 98 13:05:26 -0400
From: Mike Daniele <daniele@zk3.dec.com>
X-Mts: smtp

Juergen wrote:

>It is therefore not possible to allocate row 1 (1,1) in subagent 1 and
>later allocate row 2 (1,2) in subagent 2, although the index values
>(1,1) and (1,2) for the two rows are fine.

That's correct.

>Now, the question is how much of a problem this is. I know of at least
>one IETF MIB that could have a problem with this AgentX behaviour:

>                <draft-ietf-applmib-mib-08.txt>

>The application MIB has a notion of a service oriented view, which may
>span several instrumented processes. Processes are expected to export
>management information (e.g. some of the open channels for a given
>service) via their build-in AgentX subagents. Allocating entries in
>the application MIB tables that are indexes by service ID will only
>work if subagents do not allocate the service ID. A subagent which
>simply allocates all index elements for a row will allocate the
>service ID and lock out all other subagents for the given service.

Yup.

>This is not a fatal problem as far as I understand it now because the
>application MIB should be implementable with AgentX if the subagents
>behave nicely. However, there might be other MIBs where this AgentX
>limitation might be even more serious.

I just want to note that if one assumes the instrumented processes
all know their service ID, there is no need for them to allocate
an index for it.

They should allocate values for their second index, since they are 
apparently arbitrary.  And then all registrations would work,
which is the goal.

I assume this is what you have in mind by "behave nicely"?

>I just wanted to bring this issue up here so that we all know about it
>and can decide whether any action is necessary or if this is one of
>the limitations we accept for AgentX 1.0. If we accept this
>limitation, we should probably add some text in section 7.1.3 which
>talks about this issue and that a well-behaved subagent should only
>allocate those index elements that are "essential" and not necessarily
>all index elements of a given row.
>							Juergen

Thanks for bringing it up.  I don't recall this being raised as an issue
earlier.  I think you're right that including a clarifying example like this
would help.

Mike 

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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:12:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Randy Presuhn <rpresuhn@dorothy.peer.com>
Message-Id: <199804291712.KAA29118@dorothy.peer.com>
To: agentx@peer.com
Subject: Re: index allocation
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Hi - 

> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:32:48 +0200
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
> To: daniele@zk3.dec.com
> CC: agentx@peer.com
> Subject: Re: index allocation
> References:  <9804291506.AA00246@bernie.zk3.dec.com>
...
> I just wanted to bring this issue up here so that we all know about it
> and can decide whether any action is necessary or if this is one of
> the limitations we accept for AgentX 1.0. If we accept this
> limitation, we should probably add some text in section 7.1.3 which
> talks about this issue and that a well-behaved subagent should only
> allocate those index elements that are "essential" and not necessarily
> all index elements of a given row.
...

Although the historical discussions of index reservation (back as far
as September, 1996) have treated the varbinds as unrelated, perhaps it
might be worth going through the thought-exercise of considering what
the implications would be of treating them as tuples.

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Randy Presuhn           Email: rpresuhn@peer.com     http://www.bmc.com     
 Voice: +1 408 616-3100  BMC Software, Inc.           965 Stewart Drive
 Fax:   +1 408 616-3101  Sunnyvale, California 94086  USA
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 In accordance with the BMC Communications Systems Use and Security
 Policy, I explicitly state that although my affiliation with BMC may be
 apparent, implied, or provided, my opinions are not necessarily those
 of BMC Software and that all external representations on behalf of
 BMC must first be cleared with a member of "the top management team."
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From rpresuhn@dorothy.peer.com  Wed Apr 29 12:45:31 1998
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Randy Presuhn <rpresuhn@dorothy.peer.com>
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(testing agentx@peer.com list)

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Randy Presuhn           Email: rpresuhn@peer.com     http://www.bmc.com     
 Voice: +1 408 616-3100  BMC Software, Inc.           965 Stewart Drive
 Fax:   +1 408 616-3101  Sunnyvale, California 94086  USA
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 In accordance with the BMC Communications Systems Use and Security
 Policy, I explicitly state that although my affiliation with BMC may be
 apparent, implied, or provided, my opinions are not necessarily those
 of BMC Software and that all external representations on behalf of
 BMC must first be cleared with a member of "the top management team."
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

From root@dorothy.peer.com  Wed Apr 29 13:29:42 1998
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:20:02 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: this is a test message, ignore it.

test, ignore

