From rem-conf-request@es.net Sat Oct 01 23:34:56 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <27278-0@osi-west.es.net>; Sat, 1 Oct 1994 20:34:24 +0000 Received: from neuron.cs.tamu.edu (425@neuron.cs.tamu.edu [128.194.133.1]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with ESMTP id UAA17767 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 1994 20:16:18 -0500 From: Wei Zhao Received: (zhao@localhost) by neuron.cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) id UAA25481 for ieee_rtc_list; Sat, 1 Oct 1994 20:17:21 -0500 Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 20:17:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199410020117.UAA25481@neuron.cs.tamu.edu> To: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu Subject: RTSS94: Advance Program ADVANCE PROGRAM 15th IEEE Real-Time Systems Symposium December 7-9, 1994, San Juan, Puerto Rico Sponsored by IEEE Computer Society T.C. on Real-Time Systems ======================== A Letter From The Chairmen ========================= The purpose of RTSS is to provide an annual forum for exchanging emerging principles and practices underlying real-time computing. As in recent years, this year also we continue to witness the increasing interest in the area because of the better appreciation for the need for formal and scientific solutions for the highly interrelated problems involved in developing systems that have demanding correctness, dependability and timeliness characteristics. Many of the ideas that were formulated in academia in the recent past are being deployed in mainstream applications. This has given a major impetus to the field in which we are seeing a substantial number of new researchers tackling the many challenging problems that remain. All of these, on a worldwide scale, have led to RTSS attracting a large international contingent, in the program committee, in terms of the submissions, as well as in the acceptance of papers. We hope to see this trend reflected in the attendance as well. The technical program reflects recent developments in architecture, communication, databases, operating systems, performance, programming languages scheduling, and formal approaches for real-time applications. It also reflects an increased emphasis on system and tool implementation, evidencing a maturation of the underlying principles. To encourage the dissemination of findings in experimental development work, we have continued the synopses sessions from the previous three years. The conference will be preceded by the Workshop on Composability of Fault- Resilient Real-Time Systems, to be held December 6, 1994. Topics for discussion include the basic issue of design for composability and lessons learned in developing complex computing systems. Contact Michelle Hugue (meesh@cs.umd.edu) for details. We hope that you will join us in what promises to be a stimulating and important symposium. Farnam Jahanian Krithi Ramamritham General Chair Program Chair =========================== Conference Highlights =========================== * Workshop on Composability of Fault-Resilient Real-Time Systems. * Symposium on Real-Time Systems, including presentation of 22 papers and 10 synopses on Scheduling, Resource Management, Databases, Communications, Compilers, Formal Methods, Experimental Systems, Applications, Programming Languages, Tools, and Operating Systems. * IEEE Real-Time TC Business Meeting. For more information, contact Farnam Jahanian, Department of EECS, Univ of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2122, phone: 313 936-2974, rtss@eecs.umich.edu. ============================ Advance Program ================================ Tuesday, December 6 The Workshop on Composability of Fault-Resilient Real-Time Systems Contact Michelle Hugue (email: meesh@cs.umd.edu) for details. Wednesday, December 7 8:00-8:45am RTSS Registration and Continental Breakfast 8:45-9:00am Introduction and Remarks 9:00-10:30am Session 1: Scheduling and Resource Allocation I Chair: Raj Rajkumar, SEI/CMU * Efficient Aperiodic Service under Earliest Deadline Scheduling, M. Spuri and G. Buttazzo (Scuola Superiore S. Anna, Italy) * Mechanisms for Enhancing the Flexibility and Utility of Hard Real-Time Systems, N. C. Audsley, R. I. Davis and A. Burns (University of York, U.K.) * Algorithms for Scheduling Hard Aperiodic Tasks in Fixed-Priority Systems Using Slack Stealing, Sandra R. Thuel (AT&T Bell Labs) and John P. Lehoczky (CMU) 10:30-11:00am Coffee Break 11:00-12:00noon Session 2: Databases and Resource Management Chair: Sang Son, Univ of Virginia * Timeliness via Speculation for Real-Time Databases, Azer Bestavros and Spyridon Braoudakis (Boston University) * Resource Management for Continuous Multimedia Database Applications, J. Huang (Honeywell, Inc.) and D.-Z. Du (Univ. of Minnesota) 12:00-1:30pm Lunch 1:30-3:00pm Session 3: Communications I Chair: Chia Shen, MERL * Scaling and Performance of a Priority Packet Queue for Real-Time Applications, D. Picker and R. D. Fellman (UCSD) * A Priority Forwarding Router Chip for Real-Time Interconnection Networks, K. Toda, K. Nishida, E. Takahashi and Y. Yamaguchi (Electrotechnical Laboratory, Japan) * Multiple Route Real-Time Channels in Packet-Switched Networks, K. C. Kwan, and P. Ramanathan (Univ. of Wisconsin, Madison) 3:00-3:30pm Coffee Break 3:30-5:00pm Session 4: Compilers Chair: Doug Locke, Loral Federal Systems * Busy-Idle Profiles and Compact Task Graphs: Compile-Time Support for Interleaved and Overlapped Scheduling of Real-Time Tasks, R. Gupta (Univ. of Pittsburgh) and M. Spezialetti (Lehigh Univ.) * An Accurate Worst Case Timing Analysis for RISC Processors, S.-S. Lim, Y. H. Bae, G. T. Jang, B.-D. Rhee, S. L. Min, (Seoul National Univ.), C. Y. Park (Chung-Ang Univ.), H. Shin, K. Park, and C. S. Kim (Seoul National Univ., S. Korea) * Compiler Transformations for Speculative Execution in a Real-Time System, M. Younis (NJIT), T. J. Marlowe (Seton Hall Univ.) and A. D. Stoyenko (NJIT) 7:00-10:00pm Buffet Banquet Thursday, December 8 8:00-8:45am Continental Breakfast 8:45-10:15am Session 5: Formal Methods Chair: Lui Sha, SEI/CMU * The Generalized Railroad Crossing: A Case Study in Formal Verification of Real-Time Systems, Constance Heitmeyer (Naval Research Laboratory), and Nancy Lynch (MIT) * Modeling and Analysis of Real-Time Ada Tasking Programs, James C. Corbett (University of Hawaii at Manoa) * Response-Time Bounds of Rule-Based Programs under Rule Priority Structure, R.-H. Wang, and A. K. Mok (UT, Austin) 10:15-10:45am Coffee Break 10:45-12:00noon Session 6: Experimental Systems and Applications Chair: Bhavani Thuraisingham, Mitre * A Solution to an Automotive Control System Benchmark, Hermann Kopetz (Technical University of Vienna, Austria) * Applying RMA to Improve a High-Speed, Real-Time Data Acquisition System, David del Val and Angel Vina (Universidad Autonoma de Madrid, Spain) * ARINC 659 Scheduling: Problem Definition, T. Carpenter, K. Driscoll, K. Hoyme, and J. Carciofini (Honeywell) 12:00-1:30pm Lunch 1:30-3:00pm Session 7: Tools Chair: Christian Koza, Alcatel, Austria * Bounding Worst-Case Instruction Cache Performance, R. D. Arnold, F. Mueller, D. B. Whalley (Florida State Univ), and M. G. Harmon (Florida A&M Univ.) * Deterministic Upperbounds of the Worst-Case Execution Times of Cached Programs, J.-C. Liu, and H.-J. Lee (Texas A&M Univ.) * Guaranteeing End-to-End Timing Constraints by Calibrating Intermediate Processes, R. Gerber, S. Hong and M. Saksena (Univ. of Maryland) 3:00-3:30pm Coffee Break 3:30-5:00pm Session 8: Scheduling and Resource Allocation II Chair: Michelle Hugue, Trident Systems * Scheduling Adaptive Tasks in Real-Time Systems, Kai Wang (Hughes Aircraft ), and T.-H. Lin (State Univ. of New York at Buffalo) * Dynamic End-to-End Guarantees in Distributed Real-Time Systems, M. D. Natale, and J. A. Stankovic (Umass at Amherst) * On-Line Scheduling to Maximize Task Completions, S. Baruah (Univ of Vermont), N. Sharma, and J. Haritsa (Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, India) 7:00-8:00pm IEEE Real-Time TC Business Meeting Friday, December 9 8:00-8:45am Continental Breakfast 8:45-10:15am Session 9: Communications II Chair: Satish Tripathi, Univ. of Maryland * Probabilistic Bounds on Message Delivery for the Totem Single-Ring Protocol, L. E. Moser and P. M. Melliar-Smith (UCSB) * Real-Time Communication Services in a DQDB Network, R. L. R. Carmo, F. Vasques, and G. Juanole (LAAS du CNRS, France) * Analysing Real-Time Communications: Controller Area Network (CAN), K. W. Tindell, H. Hansson (Univ. of Uppsala, Sweden), and A. J. Wellings (Univ. of York, U.K.) 10:15-10:45am Coffee Break 10:45-12:00noon Session 10: Formal Approaches and Languages Chair: Tom Lawrence, Rome Labs * Computing Quantitative Characteristics of Finite-State Real-Time Systems, S. Campos, E. Clarke, W. Marrero, M. Minea (Carnegie Mellon Univ.) and H. Hiraishi (Kyoto Sangyo Univ., Japan) * Verifying an Intelligent Structure Control System: A Case Study, W. M. Elseaidy, R. Cleaveland, and J. W. Baugh, Jr. (North Carolina State Univ.) * Flexible Real-time SQL Transactions, P. J. Fortier, (Umass at Dartmouth), V. F. Wolfe, and J. J. Prichard (Univ. of Rhode Island) 12:00-1:30pm Lunch 1:30-2:45pm Session 11: Operating Systems and Communications Chair: Jim Ready, Microtec Research Inc. * Supporting Real-Time Traffic on Ethernet, Tzi-cker Chiueh and Chitra Venkatramani (State Univ. of NY at Stony Brook) * Modeling DSP Operating Systems for Multimedia Applications, D. Katcher, K. Kettler and J.K. Strosnider (CMU) * Emulating Soft Real-Time Scheduling Using Traditional Operating System Schedulers, B. Adelberg, H. Garcia-Molina (Stanford Univ.), and B. Kao (Princeton Univ.) =============================== Committees ================================== General Chair: Farnam Jahanian University of Michigan Program Chair: Krithi Ramamritham University of Massachusetts Treasurer: Walter Heimerdinger Honeywell Publicity Chair: Wei Zhao, Texas A&M University Industrial Chair: Prabha Gopinath Honeywell Local Arrang. Chair: Sandra R. Thuel AT&T Bell Labs Registration: Linda Buss RTS-TC Chair: Jack Stankovic University of Massachusetts Members of Program Committee: George Avrunin Azer Bestavros Alex Buchmann Alan Burns Flaviu Cristian Wolfgang Halang Jayant Haritsa Michelle Hugue Kane Kim Hermann Kopetz Christian Koza John Lehoczky Jay Lala Jane Liu Miroslaw Malek Al Mok Frank Olken Raj Rajkumar Parmesh Ramanathan Karsten Schwan Alan Shaw Chia Shen Kang Shin Lorenzo Strigini Jay Strosnider Morikazu Takegaki Hide Tokuda Satish Tripathi Frits Vaandrager Tetsuo Wasano Victor Yodaiken ================ RTSS '94 Conference Registration Form ============== Mail to: Linda Buss, RTSS'94 Registration, Rt. 1 Box 187B Menomonie, WI 54751 , Phone: (715) 235-0487, Fax: (715) 232-6244, Email: rtss@eecs.umich.edu Name: ____________________________________________________ Affiliation: ______________________________________________ Address: _________________________________________________ Phone: ______________________ Fax: ______________________ Email: ___________________________________________________ IEEE Membership No: ______________________________________ Workshop Fees: Category Before Nov. 21 After Nov. 21 IEEE Members $75 $95 Non-Members $90 $110 (No student rates available.) Symposium Fees: Category Before Nov. 21 After Nov. 21 IEEE Members $290 $360 Non-Members $375 $460 Full-time Students $95 $120 Workshop Fee: $ ____________________________________ Symposium Fee: $ ___________________________________ Total Due: $ _________________________________________ This year, registrations can also be done through email (rtss@eecs.umich.edu). Conference registration includes admission to conference, copy of proceedings, continental breakfasts, coffee breaks, and the welcoming banquet on Wednesday night. The workshop fees include continental breakfast, coffee breaks and a copy of the workshop proceedings. The student fee includes all the events of the symposium. To receive student rate, students are required to have advisor's name and signature at the time of registration. Advisor name: ____________________________________________ Signature: ________________________________________________ Written requests for refunds must be postmarked no later than Nov. 21, 1994. Refunds are subject to a $50 processing fee. All no-show registrations will be billed in full. Registrations after 11/21/94 will be accepted on-site only. NOTE: To save on postage, receipts will be given out at the conference. Payment can be made by check, money order, or credit card. Please make checks or money orders payable, in US currency, to RTSS'94. Credit Card: [] Visa [] Mastercard [] American Express Credit Card Number: ______________________________________ Cardholder Name: _________________________________________ Credit Card Expiration Date: _____________________________ Total Charges Authorized: ________________________________ Signature: _______________________________________________ ====================== RTSS'94 Hotel Reservation Form ============== Deadline: November 17, 1994 Mail to: Condado Plaza Hotel Attn: Reservation Department 999 Ashford Ave. San Juan, Puerto Rico 00902. Phone: (800) 468-8588 or (809) 791-1000 Fax: (809) 253-0178 Please complete all the information (type or print), and mail directly to the hotel. If faxing or phoning reservation, please mention IEEE Real Time Systems Symposium. RTSS'94 rates for each room for single or double occupancy are $123, plus 9% sales and occupancy tax. Accommodation desired: [] Single $123 [] Double $123 Name: __________________________________________________ Address: ________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Phone: ______________________ Fax: ______________________ Arrival Date: _____________________________________________ Departure Date: __________________________________________ Share Room With: _______________________________________ Check-in is after 3:00pm, check-out is 12:00noon. A block of rooms has been reserved until November 17, 1994. After this date, room reservations will be accepted on a space available basis. The above special rates will also apply at least three days prior to and three days after the meeting dates based on availability to those who wish to extend their visit. One night's deposit is required with each reservation. A valid major credit card guarantee is acceptable in lieu of a cash deposit. Please check form of payment [] Visa [] Mastercard [] American Express [] Diners Club [] Discover [] Check/Money Order Credit Card Number: ______________________________________ Cardholder Name: ________________________________________ Credit Card Expiration Date: ________________________________ Total Charges Authorized: __________________________________ Signature: _______________________________________________ =========================== Conference Site =============================== The City Lying 1,000 miles southeast of Miami, between the Atlantic Ocean and the Caribbean Sea, Puerto Rico is the easternmost and smallest of the Greater Antilles. Although small in size (110-by-35 miles), Puerto Rico is a modern and progressive island that maintains the charm and hospitality of days gone by. Amidst its many graceful Old World buildings, flower-filled plazas, and sandy beaches, rise some of the finest medical, pharmaceutical and electronics manufacturing industries in the world. Puerto Rico enjoys year-round summer temperatures, averaging in the mid-80's November to May. Most days have brief showers but rarely is there a sunless day. December to March is the dry season. In addition to its welcoming tropical climate Puerto Rico's landscape offers an astonishing variety including a world-famous rain forest, desert terrain, beaches, mountains, caves, and rivers, all within a short distance from San Juan, the capitol city. San Juan, located on the northern coast of the island, is the main center for business, culture, and entertainment. The Condado Plaza Hotel and Casino is in the heart of San Juan's Condado area, one of Puerto Rico's premier beach and resort areas. The Condado is close to the airport and just minutes away from the Old San Juan National Historic district, a 500 year-old town with cobblestone streets lined by period homes, quaint shops, and Spanish military fortifications from the 16th century, including El Castillo del Morro and Forts San Cristobal and San Geronimo. The Hotel RTSS 94 will be held at the Condado Plaza Hotel and Casino, located in San Juan's Condado area, 7 miles west of the Luis Munoz Marin International Airport. The Condado Plaza Hotel is flanked by the Atlantic Ocean on one side and the Condado Lagoon on the other, offering beach and water sports for daytime entertainment. At night time, the Condado has a busy night life and cultural activities nearby. A block of rooms has been reserved from December 5 to December 9. The hotel room rate of $123 single or double will be in effect three days prior to the conference and three days after the conference subject to availability. Please use the enclosed reservation form and send directly to the hotel or phone the hotel directly at (800) 468-8588 or (809) 791-1000 to make reservations. Please note the November 17 deadline regarding hotel reservations to ensure receiving the conference room rate. Transportation San Juan's Luis Munoz Marin International Airport is located 7 miles from the Condado Plaza Hotel, about a 15-20 minute drive. Transportation by taxi to the hotel is approximately $10. Parking for hotel guests is $5.00 per day. Non-guest attendees may park at an hourly rate of $1.25 for the first hour and $0.95 for each additional hour or portion thereof. *********** See you in San Juan !!! ************ From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 03 14:58:33 1994 Received: from fnsg01.fnal.gov by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <07266-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 11:58:08 +0000 Received: by fnsg01.fnal.gov (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for rem-conf@es.net id AA07697; Mon, 3 Oct 94 13:58:04 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 13:58:04 -0500 From: ettab@fnsg01.fnal.gov (Etta Burns) Message-Id: <9410031858.AA07697@fnsg01.fnal.gov> To: ettab@fnsg01.fnal.gov, rem-conf@es.net Subject: North American HEPiX Meeting Broadcast We will be broadcasting the North American HEPiX meeting (at Fermilab) Thursday and Friday, October 13-14, 1994. Broadcasting will begin both days at 10:00 EDT (7:00 PDT) HEPiX is an international group of cooperating institutions all of which are experiencing an explosion in the use of Unix for High Energy Physics (HEP) work. The focus of this group is to share experiences, influence vendors and standards bodies and to investigate solutions to those problems which impede the use of Unix for mainstream work at the member institutions. For more information see: http:/www-oss.fnal.gov:8000/hepix _______________________________________________________________________________ Etta Burns ettab@fnal.gov (Internet) Unix Applications Support FNAL::ettab (DECnet) Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory ettab@FNAL (BITnet) P.O. Box 500 MS 368 Batavia, Illinois 60510-0500 Phone: (708) 840-8300 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 03 17:43:09 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <08860-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 14:42:21 +0000 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with ESMTP id NAA07766 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 13:02:25 -0500 Received: from cadre.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxkay10618; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 14:06:07 -0400 Received: by cadre.com (4.1/Cadre-4.1) id AA14680; Mon, 3 Oct 94 14:06:48 EDT Received: by cadre.com (cadreri) (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23239; Mon, 3 Oct 94 14:05:59 EDT Received: by tesla.cadre.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA01651; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 14:04:28 +0500 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 14:04:28 +0500 From: frh@cadre.com (Fred R. Hoffer) Message-Id: <9410031804.AA01651@tesla.cadre.com> To: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu Subject: Remove hala@cadre.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 179 Sorry to post this to your news list, but could an administrator please remove hala@cadre.com, this person is no longer working with us. Thank you. Fred Hoffer Cadre Postmaster From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 03 19:07:25 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <09582-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 16:06:58 +0000 Received: from cerc.wvu.edu (cathedral.cerc.wvu.edu [157.182.44.3]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA10696 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 14:45:21 -0500 Received: by cerc.wvu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0:RAL-041790) id AA02967; Mon, 3 Oct 94 15:48:44 EDT From: carriger@cerc.wvu.edu (Mary Carriger) Message-Id: <9410031948.AA02967@cerc.wvu.edu> Subject: unsubscribe To: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 15:48:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 18 please unsubscribe From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 03 20:07:58 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <10126-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:07:20 +0000 Received: from cerc.wvu.edu (cathedral.cerc.wvu.edu [157.182.44.3]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id QAA13604; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 16:13:32 -0500 Received: by cerc.wvu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0:RAL-041790) id AA05827; Mon, 3 Oct 94 17:17:02 EDT From: anagha@cerc.wvu.edu (Anagha Karandikar) Message-Id: <9410032117.AA05827@cerc.wvu.edu> Subject: unsubscribe To: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Cc: zhao@cs.tamu.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 19 please unsubsribe. From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 03 20:15:48 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <10199-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:15:23 +0000 Received: from cerc.wvu.edu (cathedral.cerc.wvu.edu [157.182.44.3]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id PAA12844 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 15:57:26 -0500 Received: by cerc.wvu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0:RAL-041790) id AA05439; Mon, 3 Oct 94 17:00:48 EDT From: anagha@cerc.wvu.edu (Anagha Karandikar) Message-Id: <9410032100.AA05439@cerc.wvu.edu> Subject: Re: Remove hala@cadre.com To: frh@cadre.com (Fred R. Hoffer) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Cc: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu In-Reply-To: <9410031804.AA01651@tesla.cadre.com> from "Fred R. Hoffer" at Oct 3, 94 02:04:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 311 > > Sorry to post this to your news list, but could an administrator please > remove hala@cadre.com, this person is no longer working with us. > Thank you. > > Fred Hoffer > Cadre Postmaster > To whoever is sending these messages, please delete me from this list. Anagha Karandikar anagha@cerc.wvu.edu From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 03 20:40:30 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <10310-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:39:46 +0000 Received: from utdallas.edu (root@utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id RAA15212 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:03:24 -0500 Received: from frog.utdallas.edu by utdallas.edu (ZMailer 2.1.3 #231) with BLIMP id <14910>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:07:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Remove hala@cadre.com From: Billy Barron To: frh@cadre.com (Fred R. Hoffer) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:07:12 -0500 Cc: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu In-Reply-To: <9410031804.AA01651@tesla.cadre.com> from "Fred R. Hoffer" at Oct 3, 94 04:04:28 am X-WWW-Page: http://www.utdallas.edu/acc/billy.html X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 303 Message-Id: <94Oct3.170721cdt.14910@utdallas.edu> In reply to Fred R. Hoffer's message: > >Sorry to post this to your news list, but could an administrator please >remove hala@cadre.com, this person is no longer working with us. >Thank you. > How did I even get on this list? I'm not a IEEE member and I don't know what RTC is. Please delete. Billy From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 03 22:42:03 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <10975-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 19:41:12 +0000 Received: from osi-east.es.net (osi-east.es.net [128.55.32.33]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id TAA18659 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 19:45:06 -0500 Received: from viipuri.nersc.gov by osi-east.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <07969-0@osi-east.es.net>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:49:07 +0000 Received: by viipuri.nersc.gov (4.1/ESnet-1.2) id AA29959; Mon, 3 Oct 94 17:49:05 PDT Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 17:49:05 PDT From: ari@es.net (Ari Ollikainen) Message-Id: <9410040049.AA29959@viipuri.nersc.gov> To: frh@cadre.com, billy@utdallas.edu Subject: Re: Remove hala@cadre.com Cc: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu > > > How did I even get on this list? I'm not a IEEE member and I don't > know what RTC is. Please delete. > Better yet... Please get rem-conf@es.net off ieee_rtc_list !!! Ari@ES.net _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ Ari Ollikainen {VOX: 510 423-5962} _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Energy Sciences Network {FAX: 510 423-8744} _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ National Energy Research Supercomputer Center _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ MailStop L-561, PO BOX 5509, Livermore, CA. 94551 ~~RECOM Technologies Inc.~~ From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 03 22:42:46 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <10976-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 19:41:12 +0000 Received: from adept.PRPA.Philips.COM (adept.PRPA.Philips.COM [192.102.94.1]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id TAA18831; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 19:52:52 -0500 Received: from thud.PRPA.Philips.COM by adept.PRPA.Philips.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25284; Mon, 3 Oct 94 17:57:10 PDT Received: by thud.PRPA.Philips.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18956; Mon, 3 Oct 94 17:57:00 PDT Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 17:57:00 PDT From: roelofs@thud.PRPA.Philips.COM (Greg Roelofs) Message-Id: <9410040057.AA18956@thud.PRPA.Philips.COM> To: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu Subject: Re: Remove hala@cadre.com Cc: postmaster@cs.tamu.edu > Return-Path: [...] > Cc: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu > How did I even get on this list? I'm not a IEEE member and I don't > know what RTC is. Please delete. Obviously somebody at TAMU added rem-conf to ieee_rtc_list, a big netiquette no-no. TAMU postmaster, please remove rem-conf from said list, then find and shoot the person who added it in the first place. :-/ Thank you... From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 04 00:32:21 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <11423-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 21:31:43 +0000 Received: from is.rice.edu (kevinm@is.rice.edu [128.42.42.24]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id VAA20641; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 21:16:25 -0500 Received: by is.rice.edu (AA05163); Mon, 3 Oct 94 21:20:28 CDT From: kevinm@is.rice.edu (Kevin W Mullet) Message-Id: <9410040220.AA05163@is.rice.edu> Subject: (*sigh*) another irritating unsolicited list. To: zhao@cs.tamu.edu Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 21:20:27 -0500 (CDT) Cc: frh@cadre.com, ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu In-Reply-To: <94Oct3.170721cdt.14910@utdallas.edu> from "Billy Barron" at Oct 3, 94 05:07:12 pm Reply-To: kevinm@rice.edu X-Pmrqc: 1 X-Phone.Work.Voice: (713) 285-5173 X-Phone.24Hr-Network-Ops-Ctr: (713) 527-6059 X-Fax-Number: (713) 527-6099 X-Email.Work.Fax: Kevin_Mullet%5276099@fax.bcm.tmc.edu X-Www-Page: http://is.rice.edu/~kevinm/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 701 In response to Billy Barron: >How did I even get on this list? I'm not a IEEE member and I don't >know what RTC is. Please delete. >Billy 1. Please delete me as well. 2. Further clues below as to who might be responsible. I've Cc'd him specifically on this request. > telnet clavin.cs.tamu.edu 25 Trying 128.194.130.106 ... Connected to clavin.cs.tamu.edu. Escape character is '^]'. 220-cs.tamu.edu Sendmail 8.6.8/8.6.4 ready at Mon, 3 Oct 1994 21:10:44 -0500 220 ESMTP spoken here expn ieee_rtc_list 550 /user/zhao/list/ieee_rtc_list: line 74: polyzos@cs ... User unknown expn zhao 250 Wei Zhao quit 221 cs.tamu.edu closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. > From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 04 00:41:54 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <11512-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 21:41:08 +0000 Received: from Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Xenon.Stanford.EDU [36.28.0.25]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id VAA21199; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 21:43:54 -0500 Received: from microbrat.atg.apple.com by Xenon.Stanford.EDU with SMTP (5.61+IDA/25-CS-eef) id AA04232; Mon, 3 Oct 94 19:47:43 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 19:47:51 -0700 To: kevinm@rice.edu From: brat@taurus.apple.com (Steven L. Goldberg) Subject: *DO NOT* REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE! Cc: zhao@cs.tamu.edu, frh@cadre.com, ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu This is the last message anyone should send to this mailing list. Do not send another one, EVER. No matter who you are. Do not. Do you hear me? Don't even let the thought cross your mind... Everyone who posts to this mailing list right now (including myself) is making the problem worse. No matter who you are, DO NOT send requests or messages to the group -- send them to the administrator (see below). ** IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON, IGNORE THIS MESSAGE. DO NOT SEND ANY MESSAGES! ** If everyone will stop complaining to the group, the problem will most likely VANISH. The biggest problem we're all having is that everyone keeps complaining or asking to be unsubscribed. JUST CHILL OUT, EVERYONE (especially those of you who have no clue why you're getting this e-mail!). [Obviously, someone put you on this mailing list to tell you about an upcoming conference and probably got your name from a conference you attended. If not, it was something similar to this. Don't sweat it. Relax. Nobody is trying to flood your e-mail, and if everyone will just stop worrying about it the problem will go away. It certainly won't get better if you complain. If you *really* want to be removed from this list (which probably only gets used once or twice a year anyway), try "ieee_rtc_list-request@cs.tamu.edu"). If that doesn't work, just wait a day or two and I'm sure things will get better by themselves. But UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU SEND A MESSAGE TO THE GROUP!] JUST COOL DOWN and deal with it, everyone. Steve P.S. I mean it -- one more message from *anyone* (that means you, too!) to this group and I'll personally call Amway and give them your address and phone number. :-) From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 04 08:53:34 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <14272-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 05:53:05 +0000 Received: from milou.inria.fr (milou.inria.fr [138.96.24.90]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id FAA26503 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 05:27:00 -0500 Received: by milou.inria.fr (5.65c8/IDA-1.2.8) id AA01803; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:33:18 +0100 Message-Id: <199410041033.AA01803@milou.inria.fr> To: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu Subject: delete Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 11:33:16 +0100 From: Walid Dabbous please unsubscribe me from this mailing list!!!!!! Walid Dabbous | Email : dabbous@sophia.inria.fr INRIA U.R. de Sophia Antipolis | Phone : +33 93 65 77 18 2004, Route des Lucioles BP 93 | Telex : 97 00 50 F 06902 Sophia Antipolis CEDEX France| Fax : +33 93 65 77 65 From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 04 10:35:58 1994 Received: from milou.inria.fr by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <14727-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 07:35:16 +0000 Received: by milou.inria.fr (5.65c8/IDA-1.2.8) id AA03030; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 15:37:24 +0100 Message-Id: <199410041437.AA03030@milou.inria.fr> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: PhD proposal at INRIA Sophia Antipolis Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 15:37:24 +0100 From: Walid Dabbous Dear all, There is a possibility for a PhD grant from INRIA on the following subject. Support of Multimedia Applications on Networks with Mobile Hosts Multimedia conferencing is supported on the Internet. Problems concerning network congestion and resource sharing are being addressed and solutions proposed for "adaptive" multimedia applications. These applications probe continuously the network and adapt their throughput in order to avoid network congestion (e.g IVS or INRIA Videoconference System developed at INRIA). The deployment of mobile hosts introduces a large component of variable bandwidth links in the Internet. These hosts can be accessed over radio links with differents characteristics (speed and error rate). The support of multimedia applications on mobile hosts requires therefore algorithms to control the transmission taking into account the adaptability of these applications, and the constraints from the changing topology of the network. Prerequisite: Diplome d'Etude Approfondies (DEA) or M.Sc in networking or computer science. to master C/Unix programming. Preferably courses on multimedia applications and mobile networks. If interested please send your resume to me at: Walid Dabbous | Email : dabbous@sophia.inria.fr INRIA U.R. de Sophia Antipolis | Phone : +33 93 65 77 18 2004, Route des Lucioles BP 93 | Telex : 97 00 50 F 06902 Sophia Antipolis CEDEX France| Fax : +33 93 65 77 65 From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 04 13:07:33 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <16006-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:06:47 +0000 Received: from PSUVM.PSU.EDU (psuvm.psu.edu [128.118.56.2]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id JAA29327 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:41:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199410041441.JAA29327@cs.tamu.edu> Received: from PSUVM.PSU.EDU by PSUVM.PSU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8499; Tue, 04 Oct 94 10:45:57 EDT Received: from PSUVM.PSU.EDU (NJE origin GJY1@PSUVM) by PSUVM.PSU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with RFC822 id 7010; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:45:57 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 10:45 EDT From: GJY Subject: Delete Me Also To: ieee_rtc_list@CS.TAMU.EDU Please delete me from list: GJY1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 04 13:07:53 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <16014-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:07:01 +0000 Received: from stlaurent.gel.ulaval.ca (stlaurent.gel.ulaval.ca [132.203.14.29]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id JAA28770 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:14:16 -0500 Message-Id: <9410041418.AA20245@stlaurent.gel.ulaval.ca> X-Sender: poussart@stlaurent.gel.ulaval.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:25:20 -0500 To: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu From: poussart@gel.ulaval.ca (Denis Poussart) Subject: delete please unsubscribe me from this mailing list!!!!!! --------------------------------------------- Denis Poussart, poussart@gel.ulaval.ca Vision & Systèmes Numériques Département de génie électrique Université Laval, Ste Foy G1K 7P4, Canada Tel: +1 418-656-3554 FAX: +1 418-656-3594 --------------------------------------------- From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 04 14:06:06 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <16786-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:05:24 +0000 Received: from a.cs.uiuc.edu (a.cs.uiuc.edu [128.174.252.1]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id KAA01229 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:43:03 -0500 Received: from fir.cs.uiuc.edu by a.cs.uiuc.edu with SMTP id AA18653 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:42:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199410041542.AA18653@a.cs.uiuc.edu> Received: by fir.cs.uiuc.edu (1.37.109.4/15.6) id AA09459; Tue, 4 Oct 94 10:47:39 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 10:47:39 -0500 From: kaplan@cs.uiuc.edu To: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu Subject: enough with the junk mail already. I don't know (or care anymore) what this list is about. Get me off! -- Simo From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 04 18:02:48 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <18597-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 15:02:26 +0000 Received: from syr.edu (syr.EDU [128.230.1.49]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA08269 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 14:43:02 -0500 Received: from by syr.edu (4.1/CNS) id AB28391; Tue, 4 Oct 94 15:47:39 EDT Message-Id: <9410041947.AB28391@syr.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 15:46:58 -0500 To: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu From: sematkos@mailbox.syr.edu (Steve Matkoski) Subject: unsubsribe unsubscribe sematkos@mailbox.syr.edu From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 04 22:18:19 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <20346-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:17:46 +0000 Received: from alink-gw.apple.com (alink-gw.apple.com [17.255.0.18]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with SMTP id TAA14532; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:06:02 -0500 From: singer@apple.com Received: from federal-excess.apple.com by alink-gw.apple.com with SMTP (921113.SGI.UNSUPPORTED_PROTOTYPE/7-Oct-1993-eef) id AA19397; Tue, 4 Oct 94 17:09:35 -0700 for ieee_rtc_list@CS.TAMU.EDU Received: from taurus.apple.com by federal-excess.apple.com with SMTP (5.64/26-Sep-1993-eef) id AA14046; Tue, 4 Oct 94 17:08:58 PDT for ieee_rtc_list-request@CS.TAMU.EDU Received: from [17.255.12.82] (fritz2.atg.apple.com [17.255.12.82]) by taurus.apple.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA26612; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 17:09:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199410050009.RAA26612@taurus.apple.com> X-Sender: singer@taurus.apple.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 17:09:30 -0800 To: ieee_rtc_list-request@CS.TAMU.EDU Subject: STOP SENDING UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO LISTS please! use the ieee_rtc_list-request address, huh? David Singer Apple Computer/ATG 408-974-3162 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 05 00:43:42 1994 Received: from anu.anu.edu.au by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <20862-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 21:43:09 +0000 Received: from octavia.anu.edu.au by anu.anu.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23384; Wed, 5 Oct 94 14:42:47 EST Received: by octavia.anu.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03675; Wed, 5 Oct 94 14:42:05 EST Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 14:42:05 EST From: markus@octavia.anu.edu.au (Markus Buchhorn) Message-Id: <9410050442.AA03675@octavia.anu.edu.au> To: jed@llnl.gov Subject: Re: Concerning time zones Cc: mbone@isi.edu, rem-conf@es.net Hi all Having watched various people commenting on timezone difficulties, and having seen various suggestions/requests on how to handle it, and having gotten a great deal from the mbone/rem-conf crowd without ever really contributing, I decided to have a go at this myself. The following small perl script 'gmtoff.pl' will (i) without an argument spit out the current localtime to GMT offset, and (ii) with a (well-formed) argument convert that argument to GMT. Perl is something I'd recommend to everybody - I apologise to those who don't have it installed. I'd suggest installing it :-). The other option is to convert it to C, which shouldn't be too hard - the time calls in the script only use Perl's interface to the system time() calls. I just prefer perl, and it's also more portable (somebody else did all that work already :-)). Let me know if there's anything you'd like added to it - it's still quite small and manageable. Also feel free to point out any bugs... :-(.... (Actually there is one bug - if daylight savings starts/stops between the day you run the code and the day/time that you are trying to convert then it will be off by the appropriate amount. Too hard to get around, I think.) Cheers, Markus Markus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility email = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au snail = CISR, I Block, OAA, ANU Australian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia. [International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Save as gmtoff.pl (or whatever), modify the first line to wherever perl lives on your system, make it executable (chmod +x gmtoff.pl) and that's it. ---------------------------cut here-------------------------------------------- #!/usr/new/bin/perl # Markus.Buchhorn@anu.edu.au, 5th October 1994 # Uses Perl interface to time() system calls. With an argument converts # that to GMT. Without an argument echoes the offset from GMT to local time. # The input date is required to be in the form hh:mm:ss DD MM YY require "timelocal.pl"; if (($#ARGV != -1) && ($#ARGV != 3)) {die "Usage: $0 [hh:mm:ss DD MM YY]\n";} if ($#ARGV != -1) { @qtime = split(/:/,$ARGV[0]); if ($#qtime != 2) {die "Usage: $0 hh:mm:ss DD MM YY\n";} $qarray[0] = $qtime[2]; $qarray[1] = $qtime[1]; $qarray[2] = $qtime[0]; $qarray[3] = $ARGV[1]; $qarray[4] = $ARGV[2]-1; $qarray[5] = $ARGV[3]; if ($ARGV[3] > 100) {$qarray[5] -= 1900;} $qltime = &timelocal(@qarray); ($qsec,$qmin,$qhr,$qmday,$qmon,$qyear,$qwday,$qyday,$qisdst) = gmtime($qltime); $qmon = (Jan,Feb,Mar,Apr,May,Jun,Jul,Aug,Sep,Oct,Nov,Dec)[$qmon]; print STDOUT "The input local time/date converts to $qmday/$qmon/$qyear at $qhr:$qmin:$qsec GMT\n";} else { ($gsec,$gmin,$ghr,$gmday,$gmon,$gyear,$gwday,$gyday,$gisdst) = gmtime(time); ($sec,$min,$hr,$mday,$mon,$year,$wday,$yday,$isdst) = localtime(time); $GMT = $gyday + (($ghr*3600)+($gmin*60)/86400); $LT = $yday + (($hr*3600) +($min*60)/86400); $OFFSET = ($LT - $GMT)/3600; if ($OFFSET >= 0) { print STDOUT "Localtime is $OFFSET hours ahead of GMT\n"; } else { print STDOUT "Localtime is $OFFSET hours behind GMT\n"; } } exit; ------------------------cut here----------------------------------- From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 05 06:08:48 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <22456-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 03:08:21 +0000 Received: from cbt.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:06:22 +0100 (Message outbox: 189) Organisation: University College London, CS Dept. Phone: +44 71 380 7777 ext 3462 or +44 71 387 7050 ext 3462 Fax: ++44 71 387 1397 To: rem-conf@es.net cc: mbone@isi.edu, idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk Subject: IDMR conference Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 11:06:12 +0100 From: Tony Ballardie The Inter-Domain Multicast Routing (IDMR) working group is planning an audio conference + whiteboard session on Monday 17th, and Tuesday 18th October, each session starting at 9:00 PDT, 17:00 BST (UTC+1) and lasting approximately 2 hours. For those interested, an overview of CBT multicast will be presented, its various interoperability issues discussed, as well as the presentation and discussion of various PIM issues and examples (presented by Estrin et al). Does this cause a conflict with any other planned multicast sessions? Tony From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 05 09:40:52 1994 Received: from pele.psc.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <23300-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 06:40:21 +0000 Received: from localhost by pele.psc.edu (5.65/Ultrix3.0-C 11/12/92 nydick) id AA24224; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 09:39:58 -0400 Message-Id: <9410051339.AA24224@pele.psc.edu> To: postmaster@clavin.cs.tamu.edu, ron@cs.tamu.edu, hostmaster@VINEGAR.sesqui.net, problem@VINEGAR.sesqui.net Cc: rem-conf@es.net, ieee_rtc_list-request@es.net, zhao@cs.tamu.edu PP-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line Original-Cc: rem-conf@es.net, ieee_rtc_list-request@@cs.tamu.edu, zhao@cs.tamu.edu Subject: URGENT list meltdown Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 09:39:57 -0400 From: Matt Mathis X-Mts: smtp Circumstantial evidence suggests that a user on clavin.cs.tamu.edu has spliced two large mailing lists together. The list ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu is being fed into rem-conf@es.net. Observe: Return-Path: rem-conf-request@es.net Received: from osi-west.es.net by mailer.psc.edu (5.65/Ultrix3.0-C 11/12/92) id AA04271; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:13:33 -0400 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <14272-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 05:53:05 +0000 . . . (osi-west.es.net is the relay for rem-conf@es.net) And: > telnet clavin.cs.tamu.edu 25 Trying 128.194.130.106 ... Connected to clavin.cs.tamu.edu. Escape character is '^]'. 220-cs.tamu.edu Sendmail 8.6.8/8.6.4 ready at Mon, 3 Oct 1994 21:10:44 -0500 220 ESMTP spoken here expn ieee_rtc_list 550 /user/zhao/list/ieee_rtc_list: line 74: polyzos@cs ... User unknown expn zhao 250 Wei Zhao quit 221 cs.tamu.edu closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. > Please contact the apporpriate system administrators to have this fixed. (Prior messages to the ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu (wrong), ieee_rtc_list-request@cs.tamu.edu and Mr Zhao have not corrected the problem.) If the problem persists, please disconnect the site. Thanks, --MM-- From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 05 09:46:53 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <23343-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 06:46:33 +0000 Received: from survis.surfnet.nl (survis.surfnet.nl [192.87.108.3]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) with ESMTP id GAA21050; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 06:29:38 -0500 Received: from survis.surfnet.nl by survis.surfnet.nl with SMTP (PP); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:33:23 +0100 To: kaplan@cs.uiuc.edu Cc: ieee_rtc_list@cs.tamu.edu, root@clavin.cs.tamu.edu, postmaster@cs.tamu.edu, Dennis Cook Subject: Re: enough with the junk mail already. In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 04 Oct 1994 10:47:39 -0500. From: Erik-Jan Bos X-Mailer: MH X-Organization: SURFnet bv, Utrecht, The Netherlands X-Phone-Number: +31 30 310290 X-Fax-Number: +31 30 340903 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <23980.781356800.1@SURFnet.nl> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 12:33:21 +0100 Message-ID: <23981.781356801@SURFnet.nl> Sender: Erik-Jan.Bos@SURFnet.nl Simo, > I don't know (or care anymore) what this list is about. Get me off! Neither do I. I wanna get off as well. The seems to be a problem however: - there is no -request address - there is no majordomo - there is no listserv on the target domain name (see below). Another thing I noticed is that the Return-Path:-header I get is: Return-Path: So what happened IMHO is that someone in the domain of cs.tamu.edu created his own list and put rem-conf@es.net on his own list and started to send message to his own list. I Cc:-ed some people of Texas A&M University (role accounts and the zone contact according to the InterNIC whois data base) on this message. Hope this helps. % telnet clavin.cs.tamu.edu smtp Trying 128.194.130.106 ... Connected to clavin.cs.tamu.edu. Escape character is '^]'. 220-cs.tamu.edu Sendmail 8.6.8/8.6.4 ready at Wed, 5 Oct 1994 06:20:59 -0500 220 ESMTP spoken here vrfy ieee_rtc_list-request@cs.tamu.edu 550 ieee_rtc_list-request@cs.tamu.edu... User unknown vrfy majordomo@cs.tamu.edu 550 majordomo@cs.tamu.edu... User unknown vrfy listserv@cs.tamu.edu 550 listserv@cs.tamu.edu... User unknown quit 221 cs.tamu.edu closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. % __ Erik-Jan. From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 05 11:46:41 1994 Received: from lhc.nlm.nih.gov by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <24044-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 08:46:20 +0000 Received: from billings.csb (billings.nlm.nih.gov) by nlm.nih.gov (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA27071; Wed, 5 Oct 94 11:46:06 EDT Received: by billings.csb (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA02388; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:47:12 +0500 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:47:12 +0500 From: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) Message-Id: <9410051547.AA02388@billings.csb> To: rem-conf@es.net Cc: casner@isi.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1271 I'm afraid there is a conflict here. Both the ACM Multimedia Conference in San Francisco, and the 2nd International World-Wide Web Conference in Chicago, plan to be doing nearly full-time video and audio multicasts during the 17-18th October (both announced in this list some weeks back). I'm the contact for the WWW conference, Steve Casner (casner@isi.edu) is the contact for the ACM MM meeting. The three of us should discuss this further... Cheerio, Rick Rodgers > From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 5 06:10 EDT 1994 > Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 06:09:38 EDT > Subject: IDMR conference > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 11:06:12 +0100 > From: Tony Ballardie > > > The Inter-Domain Multicast Routing (IDMR) working group is > planning an audio conference + whiteboard session on Monday 17th, > and Tuesday 18th October, each session starting at 9:00 PDT, > 17:00 BST (UTC+1) and lasting approximately 2 hours. > > For those interested, an overview of CBT multicast will be > presented, its various interoperability issues discussed, > as well as the presentation and discussion of various PIM issues > and examples (presented by Estrin et al). > > Does this cause a conflict with any other planned multicast > sessions? > > > Tony > > > > From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 05 17:22:46 1994 Received: from clavin.cs.tamu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <27657-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 14:22:04 +0000 Received: (root@localhost) by cs.tamu.edu (8.6.8/8.6.4) id QAA03562 for rem-conf@es.net; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 16:17:51 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 16:17:51 -0500 From: Operator Message-Id: <199410052117.QAA03562@cs.tamu.edu> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Last(?) irrelevant posting Howdy! I'd like to apologize to list members form the crosspostings of the last couple of days, and explain a little bit. Sometime around Monday night, the address rem-conf@es.net got added to one of our local lists. {Postmaster got the first complaint Monday nite} I found out this afternoon that Dr Zhao had been out of town and unable to respond & correct the list. Again, I regret the extra traffic caused by this error at our site. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Willis F. Marti Internet: willis@cs.tamu.edu Director, Computer Services Group, Dept of Computer Science, Texas A&M Univ. From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 05 19:25:09 1994 Received: from anu.anu.edu.au by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <28530-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 16:24:45 +0000 Received: from octavia.anu.edu.au by anu.anu.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02804; Thu, 6 Oct 94 09:24:41 EST Received: by octavia.anu.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20961; Thu, 6 Oct 94 09:24:37 EST Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 09:24:37 EST From: markus@octavia.anu.edu.au (Markus Buchhorn) Message-Id: <9410052324.AA20961@octavia.anu.edu.au> To: mbone@isi.edu, rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Concerning time zones Hoo-boy... I don't know if anybody else has seen it yet, so I'll be really quiet and hope nobody notices....:-) My gmtoff.pl script doesn't appear to work as posted when your local time is a day ahead of the GMT date (for the 'no arg' case) - i.e. when I made the effort to correct for the day of the year I goofed. Then, by fixing that, the automagic rounding of perl's 'print' went away. So much for only trying out software during our afternoon . So, may I present version 1.1... :-) Cheers, Markus Markus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility email = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au snail = CISR, I Block, OAA, ANU Australian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia. [International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747] -------------------cut here-------------------------------------------- #!/usr/new/bin/perl # Markus.Buchhorn@anu.edu.au, 5th October 1994 # v1.1 Fixed bug in no arg case, Added rounding of output, Changed output # of converted date to printf. 6 Oct 94. # # Uses Perl interface to time() system calls. With an argument converts # that to GMT. Without an argument echoes the offset from GMT to local time. # The input date is required to be in the form hh:mm:ss DD MM YY require "timelocal.pl"; if (($#ARGV != -1) && ($#ARGV != 3)) {die "Usage: $0 [hh:mm:ss DD MM YY]\n";} if ($#ARGV != -1) { @qtime = split(/:/,$ARGV[0]); if ($#qtime != 2) {die "Usage: $0 hh:mm:ss DD MM YY\n";} $qarray[0] = $qtime[2]; $qarray[1] = $qtime[1]; $qarray[2] = $qtime[0]; $qarray[3] = $ARGV[1]; $qarray[4] = $ARGV[2]-1; $qarray[5] = $ARGV[3]; if ($ARGV[3] > 100) {$qarray[5] -= 1900;} $qltime = &timelocal(@qarray); ($qsec,$qmin,$qhr,$qmday,$qmon,$qyear,$qwday,$qyday,$qisdst) = gmtime($qltime); $qmon = (Jan,Feb,Mar,Apr,May,Jun,Jul,Aug,Sep,Oct,Nov,Dec)[$qmon]; printf STDOUT ("The input local time/date converts to %02d %s %02d at %02d:%02d:%02d GMT\n", $qmday, $qmon, $qyear, $qhr, $qmin, $qsec); } else { ($gsec,$gmin,$ghr,$gmday,$gmon,$gyear,$gwday,$gyday,$gisdst) = gmtime(time); ($sec,$min,$hr,$mday,$mon,$year,$wday,$yday,$isdst) = localtime(time); $GMT = $gyday + ((($ghr*3600)+($gmin*60))/86400); $LT = $yday + ((($hr*3600) +($min*60))/86400); $OFFSET = int(((($LT - $GMT)*24*10)+4)/10); if ($OFFSET >= 0) { print STDOUT "Localtime is $OFFSET hours ahead of GMT\n"; } else { $OFFSET = -$OFFSET; print STDOUT "Localtime is $OFFSET hours behind GMT\n"; } } exit; ----------------cut here------------------------------------------------- From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 05 22:52:07 1994 Received: from ibminet.awdpa.ibm.com by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <29649-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 19:51:33 +0000 Received: by ibminet.awdpa.ibm.com (5.61/1.15) id AA26119; Wed, 5 Oct 94 19:57:32 -0700 Received: by ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com (5.65b(em1)/2.06) id AA07925; Wed, 5 Oct 94 19:47:46 -0700 Received: from taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil by ibminet.awdpa.ibm.com (5.61/1.15) id AA26010; Wed, 5 Oct 94 19:51:56 -0700 Received: from trouble.cs.nps.navy.mil by taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15778; Wed, 5 Oct 94 19:47:59 PDT Received: by trouble.cs.nps.navy.mil (940715.SGI.52/911001.SGI) for @taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil:rem-conf%es.net@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com id AA03981; Wed, 5 Oct 94 19:47:58 -0700 From: Your VE info source Message-Id: <9410051947.ZM3969@trouble.cs.nps.navy.mil> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 19:47:58 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail) To: rem-conf%es.net@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com Subject: Symposium on Interactive 3D Graphics: Call for Participation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 This is the 10 day countdown for submissions to the Symposium on Interactive 3D Graphics. Here are some details that might be of interest to you at this point: 1. The proceedings for the conference will be part of ACM SIGGRAPH's Member Plus program. This means wider distribution than just symposium attendees. 2. Yes, we are accepting Panel Proposals. Submit your proposal in a form and format identical to SIGGRAPH's requirements. 3. We are putting together a videotape to be distributed to conference attendees with samples of all systems from the accepted papers. We are looking into making the tape an issue of the SIGGRAPH Video Review. So get your submissions in! Michael Zyda Symposium Chair Call for Participation 1995 Symposium on Interactive 3D Graphics Sponsored by ACM SIGGRAPH Symposium Specifics Important Dates 9th - 12th of April 1995 Abstracts for contributed papers due: 15 Oct. 94 Monterey, California USA Acceptance notification: 15 Nov. 94 (Proceedings at the symposium.) Final papers for proceedings due: 20 Dec. 94 The focus of the symposium is on the topic: Where is the frontier today in real-time, interactive 3D graphics ? The purpose of the symposium is to look at what research groups are doing with their high-performance, real-time, interactive graphics systems, to find out what special purpose graphics engines and input/output devices are on the drawing board, to discuss which are the most user-friendly paradigms for interaction with such systems and to learn what applications are still waiting for an appropriate 3D interactive system. The symposium will consist of technical sessions in which formal papers are presented and discussed, and of hands-on demonstrations where research groups and vendors of equipment demonstrate the state-of-the-art in this field. We are particularly interested in such notions as: -- moving through virtual worlds, i.e. visual simulation systems that move us through buildings or cities, over terrain or over the sea at multiple updates per second; -- interactively shaping, building or sculpting objects; or interactive assembly and manipulation of systems of parts, with consideration of ease of use, precision, and physical constraints; -- graphics hardware for high performance interactive displays; novel input technologies such as gloves, bodysuits and tracking systems; display technologies such as projected stereo, head mounted displays, and true volumetric 3D displays; -- techniques for interacting with and displaying information and data in 3D, i.e. methods for displaying non-spatial data such as abstract relationships. -- 3D graphical toolkits and user interface paradigms; higher level methods for prototyping, implementing, and verifying 3D graphics applications. Finally, we solicit contributions concerning systems that demand real-time graphics performance that is not currently achievable, along with recommendations for the development of future hardware and software architectures that may meet this demand. Symposium Chair Michael Zyda, Naval Postgraduate School Program Co-Chairs Pat Hanrahan Jim Winget Stanford University Silicon Graphics Program Committee Frank Crow, Apple Computer Andy van Dam, Brown University Michael Deering, Sun Microsystems Steven Feiner, Columbia University Henry Fuchs, UNC-Chapel Hill Tom Funkhouser, Bell Labs Fred Kitson, Hewlett-Packard Randy Pausch, University of Virginia Paul Strauss, Silicon Graphics Andy Witkin, Carnegie Mellon University David Zeltzer, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Fundraising Chair S. Kicha Ganapathy, AT&T Bell Labs skg@research.att.com (908) 949-7860 Media Coordinator (Video & AV & Demo Machines) Robert McDermott, University of Utah usirjm@red.vis.utah.edu Paper Submissions and Requests for Registration Prospective authors should submit 6 copies of an extended abstract and a short videotape (if appropriate) to the address below on or before the 15th of October 1994. The abstracts should be 3 to 6 pages long and reflect what will be contained in the final 8 to 12 page paper in the proceedings and in the 25 minute presentation at the symposium. Abstracts should clearly state what has been achieved and how this makes a contribution to the advancement of the state-of-the-art in interactive 3D graphics. Authors of papers describing systems are strongly encouraged to submit a videotape demonstrating their system in action. This videotape should show key features of the system, but need not be "professional" quality. Abstracts and papers to: Pat Hanrahan 1995 Symposium on Interactive 3D Graphics 127 Center for Integrated Systems Stanford University Department of Computer Science Stanford, CA 94305-4070 hanrahan@cs.stanford.edu Requests for registration forms should be E-mailed to: Michael Zyda zyda@trouble.cs.nps.navy.mil Naval Postgraduate School Code CS/Zk, Dept. of Computer Science Spanagel Hall 516 Monterey, California 93943-5100 (408) 656-2305 (408) 656-2814 (fax) The symposium is limited to 250 registrants. The registration fee for the symposium is $300 ($350 after January 31, 1995) and $100 for students. That fee includes the proceedings, reception, banquet and lunches. From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 07 20:07:33 1994 Received: from sgigate.SGI.COM by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <21034-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 7 Oct 1994 17:07:09 +0000 Received: from relay.sgi.com (relay.sgi.com [192.26.51.36]) by sgigate.sgi.com (940519.SGI.8.6.9/8.6.4) with SMTP id RAA18003; Fri, 7 Oct 1994 17:07:02 -0700 Received: from anemone.corp.sgi.com by relay.sgi.com via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @sgigate.sgi.com:rem-conf@es.net id AA12870; Fri, 7 Oct 94 17:06:59 -0700 Received: from localhost. corp.sgi.com by anemone.corp.sgi.com via SMTP (931110.SGI/911001.SGI) for @sgi.com:rem-conf@es.net id AA10829; Fri, 7 Oct 94 17:06:58 -0700 Message-Id: <9410080006.AA10829@anemone.corp.sgi.com> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Eric Hughes: ANNOUNCE: SF Bay Area Physical Meeting 8 Oct 94 Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 17:06:57 -0700 From: Katy Kislitzin sorry for the late notice. didn't know till now if things were a go. --kt katy kislitzin ------- Forwarded Message To: Cypherpunks Lite Sender: owner-cp-lite@comsec.com Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 20:03:23 -0700 From: hughes@ah.com (Eric Hughes) Subject: ANNOUNCE: SF Bay Area Physical Meeting 8 Oct 94 Precedence: bulk What: SF Bay Area Physical Cypherpunks Meeting When: Saturday, 8 Oct 94 12:00 noon - 6:00 p.m. Where: Silicon Graphics, Mt. View (directions below) (Provisional) Theme: Intellectual "Property" Mark Hosler of Negativland will be our (provisional) guest. He's told me he's planning on showing, but I've not been able to confirm with him in the last few days. For those of you who don't know what Negativland is, they're a music group who got into a fracas with Island Records and their own label SST over a recording Negativland did entitled "U2". Mark/Negativland have a new book coming out called _Fair Use_, which is a complete history of the whole affair with both commentary and a complete set of primary source documents. Our theme, therefore, will be intellectual property, information distribution, sampling, etc., with, of course, applications to cryptography. We will also, as always, welcome and expect topics and presentations from the attendees. If you've got something you want to present, you've got the time here. If you've got something you want to discuss, you can have the floor to lead a discussion of it. All are welcome, whether or not you've ever been to a cypherpunks meeting before or not. Eric - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- DIRECTIONS: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Building 5 (SGI Cafeteria) 2025 North Shoreline Boulevard Mountain View, CA >From 101 take Shoreline East. This is towards Shoreline Amphitheatre. It's also "logical east", and points more north that east. (That is, it's east with respect to 101 North, which points west near the exit.) If you're coming in on 101 South, you'll cross over the bridge. Continue on Shoreline and go past a whole bunch of other SGI buildings. Turn right onto Steirlin Court at the big red metal sculpture. There will be even more SGI buildings surrounding you--take note of the building numbers. Go almost to the end of this street. Building 5 is on the right. ------- End of Forwarded Message From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 10 06:28:12 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <04856-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 10 Oct 1994 03:27:43 +0000 Received: from cbt.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Mon, 10 Oct 1994 11:26:44 +0100 Organisation: University College London, CS Dept. Phone: +44 71 380 7777 ext 3462 or +44 71 387 7050 ext 3462 Fax: ++44 71 387 1397 To: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk cc: rem-conf@es.net, mbone@isi.edu Subject: IDMR conference Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 11:26:41 +0100 From: Tony Ballardie Re: IDMR conference previously announced for 17th and 18th October. I have been notified of a clash on the above dates. The audio and wb session has been re-scheduled for Friday 21st and Monday 24th October at 9:00 PDT, 17:00 BST (UTC+1) on both days. Each session will last approximately 2 hours. It will also be announced in "sd" in due course. Tony From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 10 12:44:59 1994 Received: from global1.global.net by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <06768-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 10 Oct 1994 09:44:24 +0000 Received: by global1.global.net (8.6.9/2.29) id JAA16834; Mon, 10 Oct 1994 09:42:22 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 09:42:22 -0700 From: johng@global.net Message-Id: <199410101642.JAA16834@global1.global.net> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: subscribe johng@geo.net subscribe johng@geo.net From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 10 15:33:38 1994 Received: from yama.bus.utexas.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <08469-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 10 Oct 1994 12:33:00 +0000 Received: by yama.bus.utexas.edu (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA07820; Mon, 10 Oct 1994 14:34:47 -0500 From: Ram Chellappa Subject: Broadcast on MBONE ! To: rem-conf@es.net Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 14:34:47 CDT Reply-To: ram@cism.bus.utexas.edu X-Hpvue$Revision: 1.8 $ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Message/rfc822 X-Vue-Mime-Level: 4 Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] CENTER FOR INFORMATION SYSTEMS MANAGEMENT Graduate School of Business University of Texas, Austin Proposed experimental broadcast of the CAPPS conference on the Internet over MBONE. The Second Annual CAPPS Conference Commercial Applications of Parallel Processing Systems The second annual CAPPS conference is to be held from October 17th to 19th, 1994 at the Stouffer Hotel in Austin Texas. We, at the Center for Information Systems Management at the University of Texas plan to broadcast the proceedings of the conference on the Internet on an experimental basis. This broadcast is proposed to be conducted on MBONE which will include live audio, video and text broadcast with interaction by a shared white-board feature. Furthermore conference proceedings will be stored on CISM's Web server to be retrieved and played at a later time. This broadcast is intended at not only understanding wide-area video conferencing but also to analyze the level of interaction feasible over the Internet. Given the open nature of the Internet and MBONE, no prior registration is required to subscribe to the live conference proceedings. However to avoid chaos during interactive "white-board" sessions we would appreciate if the participants could indicate to us their intention to participate. The idea is to provide a time-frame for willing speakers to answer questions after their presentation either through the shared "white-board" or by audio or even both. If you wish to know more about the conference or have questions about participation by MBONE please send mail to ram@cism.bus.utexas.edu (Ram Chellappa) or abw@uts.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Whinston) Description of Organizations and Technologies involved ------------------------------------------------------- CENTER for INFORMATION SYSTEMS MANAGEMENT ------------------------------------------ INTERNET as the new information technology: More and more companies and organizations are adopting the INTERNET as their new information carrier. Networking, which was earlier restricted to Local Area Networking has truly gone global with the ongoing commercialization of Internet. While there has been no dearth of technologies that support this venture, business problems have arisen as a result of this proliferation. CISM is actively pursuing research in the area of Internet aiming at solving these business and economic issues arising out such an explosive growth. The work by the faculty and doctoral students focuses on services offered over the Internet and the way they affect the business practices across the globe. Primarily research is being conducted on the following topics: INTERNET PRICING ISSUES CONDUCTING COMMERCE ON INTERNET DIGITAL MULTIMEDIA LIBRARIES CONVERGENCE OF TECHNOLOGIES ON INTERNET To aid in its research the center possess a network of HP workstations and a LAN provided by NCR (now AT&T), all which have access to the Internet. Take a look at CISM's Web page, one of the first of its kind at http://cism.bus.utexas.edu/ You can find information on conferences, working papers, journals and other relevant topics here. HEWLETT PACKARD --------------- The workstations and other equipment for this study has been donated by HP, Austin. We are greatly indebted to Mr. Larry Leibrock of Hewlett Packard who has helped in numerous ways and without whose help this venture would not be possible. HP has donated four HP series 700 workstations, one of which is a HP 735/125, our primary server. Other peripherals like a printer, scanner and CD-ROMS have also been donated by HP. We would like to thank Southwestern Bell Telephone for their assistance in setting up a dedicated ISDN line from the conference venue to our University. We are also thankful to James Lee Johnson, an independent consultant, formerly with Schlumberger for having helped us with the MBONE setup. A brief description of MBONE and its requirements is given below. ----------------------------------------------------------------- What is MBONE ? The Multicast Backbone or MBONE as it is popularly known is a virtual network that "runs" on top of the Internet. The most important feature of MBONE is that it supports multicasting of packets as opposed to unicasting on the Internet. This concept originated from the Internet Engineering Task Force group which first tested audiocasting on the Internet in 1992. MBONE is now used by hundreds of researchers to discuss a variety issues in a concurrent fashion. The multicast technology is adopted as it supports not only one-to-one communication but also one-to-many and many-to-many communication of audio, video and data services. Multimedia as defined is "voice, video and data integration" and MBONE supports a realtime distribution of such an integrated media. What is required to be on MBONE ? There are 4 basic requirements to be a part of MBONE. 1. Internet access: The workstation that needs to be a part of MBONE should be on the Internet and be able to handle normal TCP, IP and UDP protocols. 2. Multicast kernel: The operating system used should be able to support multicasting. Most of Unix workstations have this capability. 3. Mrouted daemon: In addition to the normal routed program which supports unicasting, "mrouted" should be run to support multicasting. This will listen on the network for multicast packets. 4. A Tunnel: An entry/exit point for your machine to connect to MBONE. Applications on MBONE The key aspects of MBONE that makes it appealing are the applications developed to exploit multicasting capabilities of MBONE. The applications on MBONE are typically divided into three categories which are essentially based on the three forms of communications: audio, visual and text. a) vat: VAT or Visual Audio Tool by Steve McCanne and Van Jacobsen of Lawarence Berkeley Laboratory is a very popular tool used on MBONE. This tool allows the user to choose the person(s) he wishes to listen to or mute. b) nv: NV or Network Video is a tool to display video on the workstation. This was developed by Ron Frederick of Xerox PARC. c) wb: WB or White Board is a kind of shared editor which not only provides text editing but also allows drawing figures and importing PostScript files. This tool was developed by Steve McCanne and Van Jacobsen of Lawarence Berkeley Laboratory. The most useful of all tools is the Session Director(sd - developed by McCanne and Jacobsen). This tool announces all the sessions or discussions that are on the MBONE and are receivable by the user's workstation. By choosing one of the sessions or channels, sd automatically opens the relevant audio, video and/or text application. One can also initiate or start a session by clicking on a button. Full details on MBONE and other applications supported on MBONE, can be found in the MBONE FAQ. A copy of this can be retrieved from the WWW site using the following URL: http://www.research.att.com/mbone-faq.html A text copy of the same can also be obtained by anonymous frp from venera.isi.edu:mbone/faq.txt -- RAMNATH K CHELLAPPA Ph: 512-467-7813 (home) Assistant Instructor, (C/S Architecture) 512-471-7962 (office) Information Systems Department of MSIS University of Texas, Austin. ramnath@uts.cc.utexas.edu (OSF1) RAMNATH@UTXVMS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (VAX) email: ram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu ramc@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Ultrix) CAUGHT SPEEDING ON THE INFOBAHN :-) From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 10 21:19:17 1994 Received: from lhc.nlm.nih.gov by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <11539-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:18:53 +0000 Received: from billings.csb (billings.nlm.nih.gov) by nlm.nih.gov (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA15398; Mon, 10 Oct 94 21:18:51 EDT Received: by billings.csb (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00448; Mon, 10 Oct 1994 21:19:58 +0500 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 21:19:58 +0500 From: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) Message-Id: <9410110119.AA00448@billings.csb> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Broadcast on MBONE X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1848 Ram, Sorry, but this conflicts with *two* previously announced conferences: 1) The ACM MULTIMEDIA '94 meeting in San Francisco 2) The Second International World Wide Web Conference in Chicago both of whom will be transmitting during this time period. I'm the contact person for Chicago, Steve Casner (casner@isi.edu) is the contact person for the ACM meeting. This appears to be a popular week: one other group has already had to cancel plans for multicasting during this period. Cheerio, Rick Rodgers --------------------- > From list-mgr@ISI.EDU Mon Oct 10 17:28 EDT 1994 > From: Ram Chellappa > Subject: Broadcast on MBONE > To: mbone@ISI.EDU > Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 14:35:19 CDT > Reply-To: ram@cism.bus.utexas.edu > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 7683 > > X-Hpvue$Revision: 1.8 $ > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: Message/rfc822 > X-Vue-Mime-Level: 4 > Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] > content-length: 7540 > > > CENTER FOR INFORMATION SYSTEMS MANAGEMENT > Graduate School of Business > University of Texas, Austin > > Proposed experimental broadcast of the CAPPS conference on the > Internet over MBONE. > > > The Second Annual CAPPS Conference Commercial Applications of Parallel > Processing Systems > > > The second annual CAPPS conference is to be held from October 17th to > 19th, 1994 at the Stouffer Hotel in Austin Texas. We, at the Center > for Information Systems Management at the University of Texas plan to > broadcast the proceedings of the conference on the Internet on an > experimental basis. This broadcast is proposed to be conducted on > MBONE which will include live audio, video and text broadcast with > interaction by a shared white-board feature. Furthermore conference > proceedings will be stored on CISM's Web server to be retrieved and > played at a later time. From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 04:40:57 1994 Received: from icl382.cilea.it by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <14012-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 01:40:30 +0000 Received: from uff29mac.cilea.it by icl382.cilea.it (5.64/10.1) id AA26669; Tue, 11 Oct 94 09:40:20 +0100 Message-Id: <9410110840.AA26669@icl382.cilea.it> X-Sender: calegari@imicilea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 09:40:15 +0200 To: rem-conf@es.net From: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari) Subject: broadcast agenda Hello everybody, looking at all those messages about broadcasts conflicts I was thinking about a volunteer unformal unofficial agenda of mbone broadcast. Not strict but maybe clear...:-) What about it? Cheers antonio ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Antonio Calegari CILEA - Segrate - Milan tel. : +39 (0)2 26995 257 Interuniversity Computing Centre email: calegari@icil64.cilea.it ITALY From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 07:16:36 1994 Received: from bgate.lut.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <15084-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 04:16:02 +0000 Received: by suna.lut.ac.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26641; Tue, 11 Oct 94 12:15:37 BST Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 12:13:53 +0100 (BST) From: "Jon P. Knight" Subject: Re: broadcast agenda To: Antonio Calegari Cc: rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: <9410110840.AA26669@icl382.cilea.it> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 11 Oct 1994, Antonio Calegari wrote: > looking at all those messages about broadcasts conflicts I was thinking > about a volunteer unformal unofficial agenda of mbone broadcast. Not strict > but maybe clear...:-) > What about it? Funny, because only yesterday I was toying with the idea of a forms-based WWW page for booking/reviewing MBONE usage. If there's enough interest I might even hack one up in the next few days. Jon -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jon Knight, Research Student in High Performance Networking and Distributed Systems in the Department of _Computer_Studies_ at Loughborough University. * It's not how big your share is, its how much you share that's important * From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 08:05:03 1994 Received: from lhc.nlm.nih.gov by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <15241-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 05:04:31 +0000 Received: from billings.csb (billings.nlm.nih.gov) by nlm.nih.gov (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA27326; Tue, 11 Oct 94 08:04:04 EDT Received: by billings.csb (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00973; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:05:07 +0500 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:05:07 +0500 From: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) Message-Id: <9410111205.AA00973@billings.csb> To: mbone@isi.edu, rem-conf@es.net, calegari@imicilea.cilea.it Subject: Re: broadcast agenda Cc: aronson@billings.nlm.nih.gov, likkai@ncsa.uiuc.edu, hardin@ncsa.uiuc.edu, rodgers@nlm.nih.gov X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1568 Antonio, It was my understanding that the mbone and rem-conf lists serve just the purpose you describe -- an informal method for setting an agenda, by means of people announcing their intentions to multicast in advance. Clearly, the demand for slots during the 17-20 October timeframe, with two conferences announced after both Steve Casner and I had staked out claims in both lists for that time period, suggests that we could do things better. Unfortunately, all of the alternatives that I can think of would require a human volunteer to manage (example: a WWW page with a printed calendar on it). A more structured method would be welcome. Perhaps it is time to discuss it on the lists... Cheerio, Rick Rodgers > From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 07:02 EDT 1994 > X-Sender: calegari@imicilea > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 09:40:15 +0200 > To: rem-conf@es.net > From: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari) > Subject: broadcast agenda > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Content-Length: 489 > > > Hello everybody, > looking at all those messages about broadcasts conflicts I was thinking > about a volunteer unformal unofficial agenda of mbone broadcast. Not strict > but maybe clear...:-) > What about it? > > Cheers > > antonio > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Antonio Calegari CILEA - Segrate - Milan > tel. : +39 (0)2 26995 257 Interuniversity Computing Centre > email: calegari@icil64.cilea.it ITALY > > From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 08:09:13 1994 Received: from lhc.nlm.nih.gov by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <15275-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 05:08:23 +0000 Received: from billings.csb (billings.nlm.nih.gov) by nlm.nih.gov (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA27396; Tue, 11 Oct 94 08:05:59 EDT Received: by billings.csb (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00983; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:07:04 +0500 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:07:04 +0500 From: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) Message-Id: <9410111207.AA00983@billings.csb> To: mbone@isi.du, rem-conf@es.net, calegari@imicilea.cilea.it, J.P.Knight@lut.ac.uk Subject: Re: broadcast agenda Cc: aronson@billings.nlm.nih.gov, rodgers@nlm.nih.gov, likkai@ncsa.uiuc.edu, hardin@ncsa.uiuc.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1293 Excellent! This is just what is needed. May be tricky to get right, though, requiring some minimal human intervention from time to time... Cheerio, Rick Rodgers > From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 08:01 EDT 1994 > Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 12:13:53 +0100 (BST) > From: "Jon P. Knight" > Subject: Re: broadcast agenda > To: Antonio Calegari > Cc: rem-conf@es.net > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Length: 744 > > On Tue, 11 Oct 1994, Antonio Calegari wrote: > > looking at all those messages about broadcasts conflicts I was thinking > > about a volunteer unformal unofficial agenda of mbone broadcast. Not strict > > but maybe clear...:-) > > What about it? > > Funny, because only yesterday I was toying with the idea of a forms-based > WWW page for booking/reviewing MBONE usage. If there's enough interest I > might even hack one up in the next few days. > > Jon > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Jon Knight, Research Student in High Performance Networking and Distributed > Systems in the Department of _Computer_Studies_ at Loughborough University. > * It's not how big your share is, its how much you share that's important * > > From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 08:42:00 1994 Received: from ceres.fokus.gmd.de by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <15460-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 05:41:17 +0000 Received: from fokus.gmd.de by ceres.fokus.gmd.de id <11136-0@ceres.fokus.gmd.de>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 13:44:00 +0100 To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: IPng Implementation Project Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 13:44:00 +0100 From: Lutz Henckel Sender: lutz.henckel@fokus.gmd.de Dear Colleagues, GMD FOKUS is planning an BERKOM project to design and implement a so-called Multimedia Transport System / Next Generation (MMT/NG) which will be close to the IETF activities (ipng, sipp, ngtrans, avt, rsvp, st+) in this area. The global protocol architecture is shown in the following picture: +------------+ | RTP&RTCP | +------------+-----------+-----------+ | UDP | TCP |Reliable MC| +--------+------------+-----------+-----------+ | |+-----------+ +----------+| | Q.2931 || ICMP&IGMP | IPv4:SIPP | RSVP/ST+ || | |+-----------+ +----------+| +--------+------------+-----------+-----------+ | SAAL | AAL5 | | | +--------+------------+ N-ISDN | LAN | | ATM | | | +---------------------+-----------+-----------+ The project will start at the end of this year. The implementation will be done for Sun SPARCstations under Solaris 2.x. For us and hopefully also for other implementators it is not possible and reasonable to implement all these protocols by ourself. So we look for other implementor groups which go in the same direction we can cooperate with. We would like to know who is implementing which protocols for wich workstations (and routers) under which operating systems and if the software is available for us as well as the conditions to get it. We are able and willing to implement the supplementary protocols and will make this available for you. Henning Schulzrinne will coordinate the implementation of RTP and me the implementation of IPng etc. We are grateful to get any hints about your implementation plans. If there is not a collection of this information yet available I will do this via our WWW server. Thank you in advance ___________________________________________________________________ Lutz Henckel Address : Research Institute for Open Communication Systems GMD FOKUS, Hardenbergplatz 2, D-10623 Berlin, Germany Phone : ++49 / (0)30 / 254 99 - 237 Fax : ++49 / (0)30 / 254 99 - 202 X.400 : G=lutz;S=henckel;OU=fokus;OU=berlin;P=gmd;A=d400;C=de Internet : lutz.henckel@fokus.gmd.de WWW : http://www.fokus.gmd.de/htbin/info/nthp/hel ___________________________________________________________________ From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 09:28:13 1994 Received: from icl382.cilea.it by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <15719-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 06:26:36 +0000 Received: from uff29mac.cilea.it by icl382.cilea.it (5.64/10.1) id AA01888; Tue, 11 Oct 94 14:26:04 +0100 Message-Id: <9410111326.AA01888@icl382.cilea.it> X-Sender: calegari@imicilea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:26:00 +0200 To: "Jon P. Knight" From: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari) Subject: RE: broadcast agenda Cc: rem-conf@es.net It could be a good starting point to evaluate its usefulness. Let me know if you need help: I could devote some (little) spare time to it. Antonio >On Tue, 11 Oct 1994, Antonio Calegari wrote: >> looking at all those messages about broadcasts conflicts I was thinking >> about a volunteer unformal unofficial agenda of mbone broadcast. Not strict >> but maybe clear...:-) >> What about it? > >Funny, because only yesterday I was toying with the idea of a forms-based >WWW page for booking/reviewing MBONE usage. If there's enough interest I >might even hack one up in the next few days. > >Jon > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Jon Knight, Research Student in High Performance Networking and Distributed >Systems in the Department of _Computer_Studies_ at Loughborough University. >* It's not how big your share is, its how much you share that's important * From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 09:32:05 1994 Received: from charon.cwi.nl by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <15781-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 06:31:10 +0000 Received: from schelvis.cwi.nl by charon.cwi.nl with SMTP id ; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:31:06 +0100 Received: by schelvis.cwi.nl with SMTP id AA03203 (5.65b/3.13/CWI-Amsterdam); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 13:31:05 GMT Message-Id: <9410111331.AA03203=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Can I decimate nv video? Organisation: Multi-media group, CWI, Kruislaan 413, Amsterdam Phone: +31 20 5924098(work), +31 20 5924199 (fax), +31 20 6160335(home) X-Last-Band-Seen: Shihad (Rock Palace, 6-10) X-Mini-Review: Good grungy band, but the audience was absent... Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:31:05 +0100 From: Jack Jansen For a conference next month I would like to transmit video over the local net with a high rate, but also nationally with a substantially lower rate. I would like to have a machine that listens to the high-bandwidth stream and produces a low-bandwidth stream, but I haven't come across any way to do this. Is it possible? How? Or should I just feed the video into two machines and have two completely separate streams? -- Jack Jansen | If I can't dance I don't want to be part of Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl | your revolution -- Emma Goldman uunet!cwi.nl!jack G=Jack;S=Jansen;O=cwi;PRMD=surf;ADMD=400net;C=nl From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 10:26:54 1994 Received: from noc.BelWue.DE by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <15952-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 07:13:56 +0000 Received: from kssun7.rus.uni-stuttgart.de by noc.BelWue.DE with SMTP id AA22092 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 15:13:15 +0100 Received: by kssun7.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (4.1/BelWue-1.3SUN) id AA13559; Tue, 11 Oct 94 15:08:10 +0100 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 15:08:10 +0100 From: Schulz@rus.uni-stuttgart.de (Claus-Dieter Schulz) Message-Id: <9410111408.AA13559@kssun7.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> To: rem-conf@es.net, Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl Subject: Re: Can I decimate nv video? > > For a conference next month I would like to transmit video over the > local net with a high rate, but also nationally with a substantially > lower rate. I would like to have a machine that listens to the > high-bandwidth stream and produces a low-bandwidth stream, but I > haven't come across any way to do this. Is it possible? How? Or should > I just feed the video into two machines and have two completely > separate streams? or just use the X11 graber of a second nv to send out this low-bandwidth stream. Claus-Dieter From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 11:22:01 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <16250-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:18:36 +0000 Received: from waffle.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 16:17:19 +0100 To: Lutz Henckel cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: IPng Implementation Project In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Oct 94 13:44:00 BST." Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 16:17:13 +0100 Message-ID: <1973.781888633@cs.ucl.ac.uk> From: Jon Crowcroft > +------------+ > | RTP&RTCP | > +------------+-----------+-----------+ > | UDP | TCP |Reliable MC| >+--------+------------+-----------+-----------+ >| |+-----------+ +----------+| >| Q.2931 || ICMP&IGMP | IPv4:SIPP | RSVP/ST+ || >| |+-----------+ +----------+| >+--------+------------+-----------+-----------+ >| SAAL | AAL5 | | | >+--------+------------+ N-ISDN | LAN | >| ATM | | | >+---------------------+-----------+-----------+ wow - all things to all people! difficult things to do: 1/ reconcile Q.2931 with RSVP 2/ layer RSVP with ST (what for? ST does 90-% of RSVP work - note also the Integrated Services IP work replaces ST too) 3/ interwork ST and IP6 at the network layer - again, flowspecs, CSZ or CBQ + RSVP make this possible, but why keep ST then? 4/ what do you want reliable multicast for? in the LAN, why not use UDP and build reliability into the application - if its for s/w distribution or other such applications, then that will work fine. if its for video/audio, what is the sense of relaibility. what Reliable Multicast model are you proposaing for this or for the WAN? to be constructive, I believe our main interest is: RTP/UDP/IP6 over AAL5, with RSVP _instead of_ Q.2931 so i think you can count on our input there...although i'd just as soon not bother with the ATM Layer if we could get high bandwidth links between routers another way: it just means we have a lot of expensive cell-izer and reassembly hardeare in all our fast host interfaces, and have yet another layer of packet scheudling compexity in the net mto avoid MTU size bursts of cellas overruning those poor under-buffer-resourced atm switches...:-) are there any project documents for us to lookswee at thanks cheers jon a likely story: +------------+ | RTP&RTCP | +------------+-----------+-----------+ | UDP | TCPng | M-TCP | +--------+------------+-----------+-----------+ | |+-----------+ +----------+| | RSVP || ICMP&IGMP | IP4:IP6 | RSVP/ST+ || | |+-----------+ +----------+| +--------+------------+-----------+-----------+ | AALx | | | +--------+------------+ N-ISDN | 100 b vg | | ATM | | | +---------------------+-----------+-----------+ (i won't say impossible, or pointless, as we've had that debate elsewhere:-) From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 13:49:23 1994 Received: from alpha.Xerox.COM by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <17412-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:48:54 +0000 Received: from ecco.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.196]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14563(6)>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:42:41 PDT Received: from localhost by ecco.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <16138>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:47:38 -0700 To: Jack Jansen cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Can I decimate nv video? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Oct 94 06:31:05 PDT." <9410111331.AA03203=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 (#2) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:47:30 PDT Sender: Ron Frederick From: Ron Frederick Message-Id: <94Oct11.104738pdt.16138@ecco.parc.xerox.com> In message <9410111331.AA03203=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl> you write: > For a conference next month I would like to transmit video over the > local net with a high rate, but also nationally with a substantially > lower rate. I would like to have a machine that listens to the > high-bandwidth stream and produces a low-bandwidth stream, but I > haven't come across any way to do this. Is it possible? How? Or should > I just feed the video into two machines and have two completely > separate streams? > This is functionality I plan to provide eventually, but it doesn't exist yet. The simplest solution is just to feed the video into two machines at once. -- Ron Frederick frederick@parc.xerox.com From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 14:20:35 1994 Received: from alpha.Xerox.COM by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <17813-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 11:19:45 +0000 Received: from ecco.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.196]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14621(7)>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 11:10:44 PDT Received: from localhost by ecco.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <16138>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 11:15:40 -0700 To: Schulz@rus.uni-stuttgart.de (Claus-Dieter Schulz) cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Can I decimate nv video? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Oct 94 07:08:10 PDT." <9410111408.AA13559@kssun7.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 (#2) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 11:15:27 PDT Sender: Ron Frederick From: Ron Frederick Message-Id: <94Oct11.111540pdt.16138@ecco.parc.xerox.com> In message <9410111408.AA13559@kssun7.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> you write: > or just use the X11 graber of a second nv to send out this low-bandwidth > stream. > Unless you have a 24-bit X display, this will seriously degrade the quality, and also reduce the frame rate a fair amount (since dithered data doesn't compress as well). Even with a 24-bit display, you'll be losing some quality, as the RGB->YUV conversion isn't perfect. -- Ron Frederick frederick@parc.xerox.com From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 19:39:33 1994 Received: from exxilon.xx.rmit.EDU.AU by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <20404-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 16:39:05 +0000 Received: (richard@localhost) by exxilon.xx.rmit.EDU.AU (8.6.9/8.6.4/ram5) id JAA00626; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:38:36 +1000 From: "Richard A. Muirden" Message-Id: <199410112338.JAA00626@exxilon.xx.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: broadcast agenda To: J.P.Knight@lut.ac.uk (Jon P. Knight) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:38:36 +1000 (EST) Cc: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it, rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: from "Jon P. Knight" at Oct 11, 94 12:13:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 906 My thought was a patch to sd (van?) that determined that there was more than say 2 sessions for some time period, and give a warning message to the person trying to create any new sessions (sorry by sessions I mean audio/video combinations). Of course this only helps when people go to create sessions which is kind of after the planning stages. Perhaps we need a multicast scheduler program that people connect to with mcast to see a set schedule? Hmm I've never done multicast programming before... :) -richard -- Richard A. Muirden, Sys. Admin |Fan of Shostakovich, "Star Trek" and the Boeing Email: richard@rmit.EDU.AU |777 (launch: May 15, 1995 - United Airlines). Phone: (+61 3) 660 3814 |I created alt.fan.shostakovich! Fly: UA,QF,WN http://www.rmit.edu.au/richard |Can *YOU* beat my 94 Shost CD's? :-) -----------I run a hot dog stand on the information superhighway--------------- From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 22:06:00 1994 Received: from anu.anu.edu.au by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <21275-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 19:05:20 +0000 Received: from octavia.anu.edu.au by anu.anu.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28035; Wed, 12 Oct 94 12:05:15 EST Received: by octavia.anu.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17614; Wed, 12 Oct 94 12:05:16 EST Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 12:05:16 EST From: markus@octavia.anu.edu.au (Markus Buchhorn) Message-Id: <9410120205.AA17614@octavia.anu.edu.au> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda > Perhaps we > need a multicast scheduler program that people connect to with mcast > to see a set schedule? Hmm I've never done multicast programming before... :) I had a vision of using e-mail and/or WWW Forms for booking a slot, and generating an image of a calendar with the info on the fly. This image then could be shared using WWW (passe..) or with IMM. Thus we use m'casting without having to learn the guts of it.. :-). Comments ? Most of it (almost all of it) could be done with available software.... Cheers, Markus Markus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility email = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au snail = CISR, I Block, OAA, ANU Australian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia. [International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747] From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 23:36:52 1994 Received: from lanshark.hstf.interop.net by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <21703-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 20:36:17 +0000 Received: (from ericd@localhost) by lanshark.hstf.interop.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA01250; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 20:42:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 20:42:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Davis To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Interop Europe Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Interop Europe (Paris) is currently planing to send a GSM audio stream to the states. The stream will be confs, local InteropTV audio, etc.. The dates will be October 24-28. This is LOW bandwidth audio only. There are plans to generate a H.261 stream for Europe Only. I am checking into those plans now... Eric Davis ericd@interop.net Network Engineer ZD Expos (Interop) P.S. I will be off the net until the 22nd. From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 00:10:04 1994 Received: from brolga.cc.uq.oz.au by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <21926-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 11 Oct 1994 21:08:58 +0000 Received: from brolga.cc.uq.oz.au by brolga.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 14:08:38 +1000 To: markus@octavia.anu.edu.au (Markus Buchhorn) cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:05:16 EST." <9410120205.AA17614@octavia.anu.edu.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 14:08:34 +1000 Message-ID: <28341.781934914@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au> From: George Michaelson I tried to do WWW stuff for a multicast diary. Its hard to do it so people want to use it. Steve Deering, Steve Casner and Others have also considered this. You can look at http://www.uq.oz.au/mbone/diary/diary.html for what I did. I like some aspects of Richards suggestion. If the sd EDIT panel is aware of the SD cache and warns that at your chosen TTL, other conferences co-exist, then the user is at least aware of a problem. Global coordination demands real human effort. WWW or mbone based tools will HELP but they won't replace the need for some kind of rolling conference secretariat... and when somebody decides to fund one, I will be in the queue for a job too! -George From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 03:26:20 1994 Received: from bgate.lut.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <22962-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 00:25:50 +0000 Received: by suna.lut.ac.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09769; Wed, 12 Oct 94 08:25:42 BST Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:24:20 +0100 (BST) From: "Jon P. Knight" Sender: "Jon P. Knight" Reply-To: "Jon P. Knight" Subject: Scheduling the MBONE To: "Richard A. Muirden" Cc: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it, rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: <199410112338.JAA00626@exxilon.xx.rmit.EDU.AU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed, 12 Oct 1994, Richard A. Muirden wrote: > My thought was a patch to sd (van?) that determined that there was more > than say 2 sessions for some time period, and give a warning message to > the person trying to create any new sessions (sorry by sessions I mean > audio/video combinations). Hmm, I haven't seen this; anyone got a pointer to it? > Of course this only helps when people go to > create sessions which is kind of after the planning stages. Perhaps we > need a multicast scheduler program that people connect to with mcast > to see a set schedule? I think using multicast for the scheduler is a bit of overkill; we would need to have at least one machine always running so that the system didn't loose state. Also, the net could be partitioned and you could have the situation where two people on each side of the partition think the same time period is free. > Hmm I've never done multicast programming before... :) Its easy once you realise that BSD and Sys V have slightly different ways of binding to multicast addresses... :-) Jon -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jon Knight, Research Student in High Performance Networking and Distributed Systems in the Department of _Computer_Studies_ at Loughborough University. * It's not how big your share is, its how much you share that's important * From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 03:45:24 1994 Received: from bgate.lut.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <23069-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 00:45:01 +0000 Received: by suna.lut.ac.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09911; Wed, 12 Oct 94 08:44:42 BST Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:38:55 +0100 (BST) From: "Jon P. Knight" Subject: Re: broadcast agenda To: George Michaelson Cc: Markus Buchhorn , rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: <28341.781934914@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 12 Oct 1994, George Michaelson wrote: > You can look at http://www.uq.oz.au/mbone/diary/diary.html for what I did. This is just the sort of thing I was thinking of (this is what I like about the Internet; as soon as you think you need to write something, you find someone has already done it for you!). Maybe a pointer to it should be put into the MBONE FAQ so that people start using it more (it seems pretty empty at the moment; not a single one of the events from the upcoming ``Big Clash'' is in there!). > Global coordination demands real human effort. WWW or mbone based tools > will HELP but they won't replace the need for some kind of rolling > conference secretariat... and when somebody decides to fund one, I will > be in the queue for a job too! Lets not make it too burocratic otherwise we'll end up with something that looks like the SuperJANET ATM video trial booking system. One of the benefits of the MBONE is its loose, easy going, cooperative environment. Jon -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jon Knight, Research Student in High Performance Networking and Distributed Systems in the Department of _Computer_Studies_ at Loughborough University. * It's not how big your share is, its how much you share that's important * From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 08:29:03 1994 Received: from lust.mrrl.lut.ac.uk by osi-east.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <11887-0@osi-east.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 05:28:43 +0000 Received: from localhost (martin@localhost) by lust.mrrl.lut.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA17584 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:27:25 +0100 Message-Id: <199410121227.NAA17584@lust.mrrl.lut.ac.uk> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Oct 1994 14:08:34 +1000." <28341.781934914@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <17582.781964839.1@mrrl.lut.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:27:19 +0100 From: Martin Hamilton Strikes me something like this could be handy as a mechanism for co-ordinating MBONE and CU-SeeMe activity From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 09:06:13 1994 Received: from ceres.fokus.gmd.de by osi-east.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <12428-0@osi-east.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 06:05:40 +0000 Received: from fokus.gmd.de by ceres.fokus.gmd.de id <22106-0@ceres.fokus.gmd.de>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 14:06:55 +0100 To: J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ak.uk Subject: Re: IPng Implementation Project Cc: rem-conf@es.net Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 14:06:55 +0100 From: Lutz Henckel Sender: lutz.henckel@fokus.gmd.de Jon, we know that there is tromendous From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 10:34:41 1994 Received: from lust.mrrl.lut.ac.uk by osi-east.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <13900-0@osi-east.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 07:33:59 +0000 Received: from localhost (martin@localhost) by lust.mrrl.lut.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA19839 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 15:32:40 +0100 Message-Id: <199410121432.PAA19839@lust.mrrl.lut.ac.uk> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Oct 1994 15:00:21 -0000." <1126.9410121400@scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <19837.781972360.1@mrrl.lut.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 15:32:40 +0100 From: Martin Hamilton Graeme Wood writes: | > Strikes me something like this could be handy as a mechanism | > for co-ordinating MBONE and CU-SeeMe activity | | Well they ought to be one and the same thing and will be when multicast | is available on the Mac and on more of the PC platforms. No? Sure, but in the meantime... ? Anyway this'll all be moot when the comp.multimedia.cu-seeme.* newsgroups hit the ether, and the Internet melts down ! :-) Martin From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 11:25:04 1994 Received: from lhc.nlm.nih.gov by osi-east.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <14741-0@osi-east.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:24:10 +0000 Received: from billings.csb (billings.nlm.nih.gov) by nlm.nih.gov (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA16932; Wed, 12 Oct 94 11:22:38 EDT Received: by billings.csb (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA01988; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 11:23:44 +0500 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 11:23:44 +0500 From: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) Message-Id: <9410121523.AA01988@billings.csb> To: rem-conf@es.net, markus@octavia.anu.edu.au Subject: Re: broadcast agenda X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1455 This is a fine idea, Markus, and I hope you will proceed with it. However, we probably still need someone watching over the calendar to be certain it's accurate and working. Also, we probably should point off of the WWW calendar page to various mbone documents and to a list of guidelines about mbone conventions ca. numbers of concurrent multicasts, etc. Cheerio, Rick Rodgers > From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 11 23:46 EDT 1994 > Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 12:05:16 EST > From: markus@octavia.anu.edu.au (Markus Buchhorn) > To: rem-conf@es.net > Subject: Re: broadcast agenda > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 790 > > > Perhaps we > > need a multicast scheduler program that people connect to with mcast > > to see a set schedule? Hmm I've never done multicast programming before... :) > > I had a vision of using e-mail and/or WWW Forms for booking a slot, and > generating an image of a calendar with the info on the fly. This image > then could be shared using WWW (passe..) or with IMM. Thus we use m'casting > without having to learn the guts of it.. :-). Comments ? > > Most of it (almost all of it) could be done with available software.... > > Cheers, > Markus > > Markus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility > email = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au snail = CISR, I Block, OAA, ANU > Australian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia. > [International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747] > From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 12:17:31 1994 Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by osi-east.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <16076-1@osi-east.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:16:46 +0000 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.festival; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 15:00:04 +0100 Received: from cancer.ucs.ed.ac.uk by festival.ed.ac.uk id aa01036; 12 Oct 94 15:00 BST Received: from scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk by ucs.ed.ac.uk; Wed, 12 Oct 94 15:00:23 BST Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 15:00:21 BST Message-Id: <1126.9410121400@scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Graeme Wood Subject: Re: broadcast agenda To: Martin Hamilton , rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: Martin Hamilton's message of Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:27:19 +0100 Reply-To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.edinburgh.ac.uk X-Department: Unix Systems Support, Computing Services X-Organisation: The University of Edinburgh X-Url: "http://ugwww.ucs.ed.ac.uk/~jaw/" X-Phone: +44 31 650 5003 X-Fax: +44 31 650 6552 > Strikes me something like this could be handy as a mechanism > for co-ordinating MBONE and CU-SeeMe activity Well they ought to be one and the same thing and will be when multicast is available on the Mac and on more of the PC platforms. No? Graeme From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 12:19:22 1994 Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com by osi-east.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <16146-0@osi-east.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:18:34 +0000 Received: from telecomm.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.4/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA23960; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:06:01 -0700 Received: by telecomm.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.8/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA06018; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:56:56 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:56:56 -0700 From: NOSSDAV Workshop Message-Id: <9410121556.AA06018@telecomm.hpl.hp.com> To: nossdav95@telecomm.hpl.hp.com Subject: Call for papers - NOSSDAV'95 5th International Workshop on Network and Operating System Support for Digital Audio and Video (NOSSDAV '95) CALL FOR PAPERS April 19, 20, 21, 1995 Durham, New Hampshire, USA Sponsored by the IEEE Communications Society In cooperation with ACM SIGCOMM, SIGOPS, SIGMM, SIGGRAPH, and SIGIR Network and operating system support for digital audio and video are becoming increasingly important with the convergence of the computer, the TV, and communications. Innovation in this field is fueling the industry developments in interactive multimedia services to the home. In the past, research in this domain has largely originated as adaptations of specific technologies to support audio and video. This work has lead to an understanding of common cross-disciplinary problems. Increasingly, this work encompasses and integrates the diverse technology necessary to achieve end-to-end systems. To this end, research leading to complete solutions is viewed as particularly important to the workshop. The workshop is intended to bring together practitioners from a variety of areas, including communications and networks, operating systems, real-time systems and distributed computing. It is intended that an outcome of the workshop will be a statement of the the state of the art in this field, highlighting the major areas requiring future research. Relevant topics for the workshop include: High-speed/ATM networks Multimedia-oriented desk, local, and wide area networks Workstation architectures for multimedia Cell-based system architectures Multimedia network interfaces Communication protocols for multimedia Multicast Micro-kernel and OS support for real-time communications Resource management and reservation in the OS and network End-to-end admission control Quality of service and synchronization frameworks Multimedia storage, server, and I/O architectures Distributed multimedia systems APIs and CM programming abstractions for multimedia Community networking TV set-top device communication Instructions for Submitting Papers: Two types of submissions are solicited: position papers and research papers. For the purpose of paper review, position papers are restricted to three single-spaced ASCII pages. Research papers are restricted to an extended abstract no longer than five formatted postscript pages. Papers should be electronically mailed to nossdav95@spiderman.bu.edu Only if electronic submission is impossible, papers may be sent to: Prof. T.D.C. Little, Multimedia Communications Laboratory, Department of Electrical, Computer and Systems Engineering, Boston University, 44 Cummington Street, Boston, MA 02215 USA. Tel: +1 617 353-9877 Fax: +1 617 353-6440 tdcl@bu.edu. The proceedings of the workshop will be published by Springer-Verlag and the best papers will be forwarded to selected journals for publication. Important Dates: Abstracts due: December 12, 1994 Acceptance notification: January 25, 1995 Final paper due: March 8, 1995 Workshop: April 19, 1995 Program Co-Chairs: Riccardo Gusella, HP Labs, USA T.D.C. Little, Boston University, USA Program Committee: Stavros Christodoulakis, Technical University of Crete Domenico Ferrari, University of California, Berkeley Ralf Herrtwich, IBM Creative Multimedia Studios Andy Hopper, Olivetti & University of Cambridge Kevin Jeffay, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Chuck Kalmanek, AT&T Bell Laboratories Jim Kurose, University of Massachusetts at Amherst Aurel Lazar, Columbia University Derek McAuley, Cambridge University Duane Northcutt, Sun Microsystems Laboratories Guru Parulkar, Washington University Steve Pink, Swedish Institute of Computer Science Radu Popescu-Zeletin, GMD-FOKUS K.K. Ramakrishnan, Digital Equipment Corporation P. Venkat Rangan, University of California, San Diego Jon Rosenberg, Bell Communications Research Eve Schooler, USC/Information Sciences Institute Doug Shepherd, Lancaster University Cormac Sreenan, AT&T Bell Laboratories Jean-Bernard Stefani, France Telecom/CNET Daniel Swinehart, Xerox PARC Hideyuki Tokuda, Carnegie Mellon University/Keio University Jon Walpole, Oregon Graduate Institute of Science & Technology Raj Yavatkar, University of Kentucky This CFP is on-line at http://spiderman.bu.edu. From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 12:41:26 1994 Received: from imicilea.cilea.it by osi-east.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <16602-0@osi-east.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:39:23 +0000 Received: from [131.175.1.95] by IMICILEA.CILEA.IT (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 12 Oct 94 17:32:28 MET X-Sender: calegari@imicilea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 17:37:07 +0200 To: rem-conf@es.net From: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari) Subject: RE: broadcast agenda Cc: guglielm@imicilea.cilea.it We are working on something like that...maybe wb instead of IMM. We are also thinking (just thinking) about possible sd extension to include booking function. Cheerio Antonio >I had a vision of using e-mail and/or WWW Forms for booking a slot, and >generating an image of a calendar with the info on the fly. This image >then could be shared using WWW (passe..) or with IMM. Thus we use m'casting >without having to learn the guts of it.. :-). Comments ? > >Most of it (almost all of it) could be done with available software.... > >Cheers, > Markus > >Markus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility >email = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au snail = CISR, I Block, OAA, ANU >Australian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia. >[International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Antonio Calegari CILEA - Segrate - Milan tel. : +39 (0)2 26995 257 Interuniversity Computing Centre email: calegari@icil64.cilea.it ITALY From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 13:43:40 1994 Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <01560-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:42:39 +0000 Received: from hplabsz.hpl.hp.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.4/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA26096; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:43:25 -0700 Received: by hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (1.37.109.11/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA148663754; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:42:34 -0700 From: Laura de Leon Message-Id: <9410121042.ZM14864@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:42:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.0.0 15dec93) To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: BayLISA meeting: Larry Wall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 I know there are several other events currently scheduled for the 20th, but I'm guessing that most of them will not be broadcasting in the evening. If I'm wrong about this, please let me know. Laura de Leon deleon@hpl.hp.com ---- The BayLISA group meets monthly to discuss topics of interest for administration of sites with more than 100 users and/or computers. The meetings are free and open to the public. October 20th: Larry Wall, Netlabs: PERL 5 Perl is a language that attempts to unify concepts from many languages, both natural and artificial. This attempt has been at least partially successful, to judge by the increasing popularity of Perl. Originally perceived as a text-processing language for writing impenetrable one-liners, Perl has recently developed into a language that can be used in polite company. Larry Wall, the author of Perl, will talk about what happens when you try to combine all your favorite languages into one language. He'll present the original design rationale (or, more accurately, irrationale) for Perl, and how "Perl philosophy" is evolving with the development of Perl version 5, and why you should care. NOTE: Election time is coming up in November, with the candidates forum at the October meeting. If you've been thinking about running for the board, send a message to blw@baylisa.org for more information. BayLISA holds monthly meetings on the third Thursday of each month at 7:30 PM PDT (GMT +7) (please do not arrive before 7:00). We meet at Synopsys Building C in Mountain View, California off Highway 237 at Middlefield. This meeting will be broadcast via mbone. To get further information on the meeting location, you can request it >from the majordomo server on baylisa.org, you can ftp it from ftp.baylisa.org:/BayLISA/location or you can query the BayLISA mail server by cutting and pasting the following line to your shell: echo "index baylisa" | mail majordomo@baylisa.org BayLISA makes video tapes of the meetings available to members. For more information on available videos, please send email to: video@baylisa.org For any other information, please send email to: info@baylisa.org If you have any questions, please contact me or the info alias listed above. From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 14:31:24 1994 Received: from curtis.ansremote.com by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <01771-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 11:18:14 +0000 Received: from curtis.ansremote.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by curtis.ansremote.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA00636; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 14:10:26 -0400 Message-Id: <199410121810.OAA00636@curtis.ansremote.com> To: Martin Hamilton cc: rem-conf@es.net Reply-To: curtis@ans.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Oct 1994 15:32:40 BST." <199410121432.PAA19839@lust.mrrl.lut.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 14:10:23 -0400 From: Curtis Villamizar In message <199410121432.PAA19839@lust.mrrl.lut.ac.uk>, Martin Hamilton writes: > > Anyway this'll all be moot when the comp.multimedia.cu-seeme.* > newsgroups hit the ether, and the Internet melts down ! :-) > > Martin Fortunately, the Internet has more than an order of magnitude more bandwidth capacity in many parts of the core than the mbone routers can possibly offer. This would only melt down the mbone. Milage may vary on T1 portions of the Internet. At worst, some mbone routers would be shut down, again disrupting only mbone connectivity. Of course melting down any part of the Internet is not a good thing, but the way you state this the potential problem is quite exadurated. Curtis From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 15:18:28 1994 Received: from algol.cs.umbc.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <02294-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 11:39:44 +0000 Received: from toto.cs.umbc.edu by algol.cs.umbc.edu with SMTP id AA18678 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 14:39:42 -0400 Received: by toto.cs.umbc.edu id AA01713 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for rem-conf@es.net); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 14:39:40 -0400 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 14:39:40 -0400 From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" Message-Id: <199410121839.AA01713@toto.cs.umbc.edu> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Ingram to speak at UMBC on crypto history Note new location. The talk will be broadcast live over the internet using Mbone. COLLOQUIUM -- COLLOQUIUM Computer Science Department University of Maryland Baltimore County Historical Perspectives in Communications Security Jack E. Ingram Curator, National Cryptologic Museum NSA Center for Cryptologic History Cryptology has played an important role in world events. Jack Ingram will discuss this role, illustrating it with fascinating examples. Ingram is an expert in cryptologic history who has served as a senior instructor at the National Cryptologic School. Currently he is Curator of the National Cryptologic Museum. 4:00 pm Wednesday, Oct 19, 1994 Lecture Hall IV, Academic IV University of Maryland Baltimore County Baltimore MD 21228 Host: Alan T. Sherman, Computer Science Department, sherman@cs.umbc.edu ______________________________________________________________________________ For more info: access URL "http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/", call 410-455-3000, email dept@cs.umbc.edu. To join/drop the colloquium mailinglist, send email to majordomo@cs.umbc.edu w. "subscribe/unsubscribe colloquium-outgoing" in body. From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 15:19:38 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <03216-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:18:16 +0000 Received: from mercedes.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 20:17:51 +0100 From: Piers O'Hanlon Organisation: University College London, AV Dept. Phone: +44 71 636 8333 ext 3056 (Hang on in there...) To: curtis@ans.net cc: Martin Hamilton , rem-conf@es.net, P.OHanlon@cs.ucl.ac.uk Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Oct 94 14:10:23 EDT." <199410121810.OAA00636@curtis.ansremote.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 20:17:46 +0100 Sender: P.OHanlon@cs.ucl.ac.uk Curtis Villamizar writes: > > In message <199410121432.PAA19839@lust.mrrl.lut.ac.uk>, Martin Hamilton writes: > > > > Anyway this'll all be moot when the comp.multimedia.cu-seeme.* > > newsgroups hit the ether, and the Internet melts down ! :-) > > > > Martin > > Fortunately, the Internet has more than an order of magnitude more > bandwidth capacity in many parts of the core than the mbone routers > can possibly offer. This would only melt down the mbone. > Currently CU-Seeme uses unicast so widescale CU-Seeme traffic could begin to cause problems - The reflector model needs a bit of work doing on it to be scaleable (like changing to multicast). No exaduration. Piers From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 15:57:35 1994 Received: from lhc.nlm.nih.gov by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <03456-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:56:40 +0000 Received: from billings.csb (billings.nlm.nih.gov) by nlm.nih.gov (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA27609; Wed, 12 Oct 94 15:56:29 EDT Received: by billings.csb (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06782; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 15:57:36 +0500 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 15:57:36 +0500 From: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) Message-Id: <9410121957.AA06782@billings.csb> To: G.Michaelson@cc.uq.oz.au, J.P.Knight@lut.ac.uk Subject: Re: broadcast agenda Cc: markus@octavia.anu.edu.au, rem-conf@es.net, mbone@isi.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1322 > On Wed, 12 Oct 1994, George Michaelson wrote: > > You can look at http://www.uq.oz.au/mbone/diary/diary.html for what I did. > > This is just the sort of thing I was thinking of (this is what I like > about the Internet; as soon as you think you need to write something, you > find someone has already done it for you!). Maybe a pointer to it should > be put into the MBONE FAQ so that people start using it more (it seems > pretty empty at the moment; not a single one of the events from the > upcoming ``Big Clash'' is in there!). Unless I'm misreading this page, the calendar is read-only--the entry tool is just a mock-up. So it's not yet ready to use. Otherwise I'd enter our component from the Big Clash... > > > Global coordination demands real human effort. WWW or mbone based tools > > will HELP but they won't replace the need for some kind of rolling > > conference secretariat... and when somebody decides to fund one, I will > > be in the queue for a job too! Hear, hear. > > Lets not make it too burocratic otherwise we'll end up with something that > looks like the SuperJANET ATM video trial booking system. One of the > benefits of the MBONE is its loose, easy going, cooperative environment. Again, hear, hear. It will be tricky getting the balance right. > > Jon Cheerio, Rick Rodgers From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 16:01:36 1994 Received: from lhc.nlm.nih.gov by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <03520-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:00:34 +0000 Received: from billings.csb (billings.nlm.nih.gov) by nlm.nih.gov (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA27801; Wed, 12 Oct 94 16:00:19 EDT Received: by billings.csb (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06802; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 16:01:26 +0500 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 16:01:26 +0500 From: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) Message-Id: <9410122001.AA06802@billings.csb> To: rem-conf@es.net, sherman@cs.umbc.edu Subject: Re: Ingram to speak at UMBC on crypto history Cc: casner@isi.edu, likkai@ncsa.uiuc.edu, hardin@ncsa.uiuc.edu, aronson@billings.nlm.nih.gov, rodgers@nlm.nih.gov X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 2042 Gosh, am I starting to sound like a broken record. A multicast on the 19th will conflict with two definite tull-time multicasts (MM'94 rom San Francisco), 2nd Int. WWW Conf. (Chicago), as well as (possibly) the CAPPS conf. from Austin (we're waiting to hear back from them). A fourth group has rescheduled their meeting to as not to collide. Please coordinate this activity with me (for the WWW meeting) and Steve Casner (for the MM meeting). Cheerio, Rick Rodgers > From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 15:21 EDT 1994 > Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 14:39:40 -0400 > From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" > To: rem-conf@es.net > Subject: Ingram to speak at UMBC on crypto history > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 1237 > > > Note new location. The talk will be broadcast live over the internet using Mbone. > > COLLOQUIUM -- COLLOQUIUM > Computer Science Department > University of Maryland Baltimore County > > Historical Perspectives in Communications Security > > Jack E. Ingram > Curator, National Cryptologic Museum > NSA Center for Cryptologic History > > Cryptology has played an important role in world events. Jack Ingram > will discuss this role, illustrating it with fascinating examples. > Ingram is an expert in cryptologic history who has served as a senior > instructor at the National Cryptologic School. Currently he is > Curator of the National Cryptologic Museum. > > > 4:00 pm Wednesday, Oct 19, 1994 > Lecture Hall IV, Academic IV > University of Maryland > Baltimore County > Baltimore MD 21228 > > Host: Alan T. Sherman, Computer Science Department, sherman@cs.umbc.edu > ______________________________________________________________________________ > For more info: access URL "http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/", call 410-455-3000, > email dept@cs.umbc.edu. To join/drop the colloquium mailinglist, send email to > majordomo@cs.umbc.edu w. "subscribe/unsubscribe colloquium-outgoing" in body. > > From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 16:14:29 1994 Received: from Sun.COM by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <03624-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:12:02 +0000 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (zigzag.Eng.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (sun-barr.Sun.COM) id AA16506; Wed, 12 Oct 94 13:11:50 PDT Received: from auckland.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB10225; Wed, 12 Oct 94 12:17:30 PDT Received: by auckland.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA13934; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:14:27 +0800 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:14:27 +0800 From: Ross.Finlayson@Eng.Sun.COM (Ross Finlayson) Message-Id: <9410121914.AA13934@auckland.Eng.Sun.COM> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda Reply-To: finlayson@Eng.Sun.COM X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1000 > > Global coordination demands real human effort. WWW or mbone based tools > > will HELP but they won't replace the need for some kind of rolling > > conference secretariat... and when somebody decides to fund one, I will > > be in the queue for a job too! > > Lets not make it too burocratic otherwise we'll end up with something that > looks like the SuperJANET ATM video trial booking system. One of the > benefits of the MBONE is its loose, easy going, cooperative environment. Agreed. It doesn't make much sense to try to set up a centralized mechanism for scheduling a medium that is inherently decentralized. And besides, it's not something that you can strictly enforce anyway. (Also, the applications we use are (ore at least should be) designed for graceful degradation if, in the worst case, the MBONE gets overused.) I like the idea of leveraging off "sd". "sd" entries (if posted early enough) contain enough information to enable someone to detect potential conflicts. Ross. From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 16:45:26 1994 Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <03893-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:44:21 +0000 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.festival; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 18:52:24 +0100 Received: from cancer.ucs.ed.ac.uk by festival.ed.ac.uk id aa25319; 12 Oct 94 18:53 BST Received: from scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk by ucs.ed.ac.uk; Wed, 12 Oct 94 18:52:58 BST Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 18:52:58 BST Message-Id: <1797.9410121752@scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Graeme Wood Subject: Re: broadcast agenda To: "Jon P. Knight" , George Michaelson In-Reply-To: Jon P. Knight's message of Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:38:55 +0100 (BST) Reply-To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.edinburgh.ac.uk X-Department: Unix Systems Support, Computing Services X-Organisation: The University of Edinburgh X-Url: "http://ugwww.ucs.ed.ac.uk/~jaw/" X-Phone: +44 31 650 5003 X-Fax: +44 31 650 6552 Cc: Markus Buchhorn , rem-conf@es.net > Lets not make it too burocratic otherwise we'll end up with something that > looks like the SuperJANET ATM video trial booking system. One of the > benefits of the MBONE is its loose, easy going, cooperative environment. Don't be too prejudiced. Have you tried the WWW interface to it? The URL is: http://strat.ucs.ed.ac.uk/bookpage.html Graeme From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 18:17:20 1994 Received: from brolga.cc.uq.oz.au by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <04621-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 15:15:50 +0000 Received: from brolga.cc.uq.oz.au by brolga.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 08:15:13 +1000 To: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) cc: J.P.Knight@lut.ac.uk, markus@octavia.anu.edu.au, rem-conf@es.net, mbone@isi.edu Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Oct 1994 15:57:36 +0500." <9410121957.AA06782@billings.csb> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 08:15:09 +1000 Message-ID: <13109.782000109@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au> From: George Michaelson From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 12 19:51:20 1994 Received: from brolga.cc.uq.oz.au by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <05352-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 12 Oct 1994 16:49:40 +0000 Received: from brolga.cc.uq.oz.au by brolga.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:49:17 +1000 To: finlayson@Eng.Sun.COM cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:14:27 +0800." <9410121914.AA13934@auckland.Eng.Sun.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:49:13 +1000 Message-ID: <16205.782005753@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au> From: George Michaelson Agreed. It doesn't make much sense to try to set up a centralized mechanism for scheduling a medium that is inherently decentralized. And besides, it's not something that you can strictly enforce anyway. (Also, the applications we use are (ore at least should be) designed for graceful degradation if, in the worst case, the MBONE gets overused.) Unfortunately the degredation is not graceful. network meltdown in the absence of resource sharing/allocation infrastructure like RSVP is not pleasant. Ask some of the people down 256k or slower lines how they feel about non-pruned Multicast and >1 stream! I know, they shouldn't have deployed. Alas this cat is now out of the bag. I like the idea of leveraging off "sd". "sd" entries (if posted early enough) contain enough information to enable someone to detect potential conflicts. I too like the SD leverage, but it needs hooks: making SD tell the editor of the session about conflicts. [are Van and Steve McCanne Reading this thread?] Resolving conflicts needs stuff outside of the scope of SD like an MBONE diary or some kind of (sorry) centrally coordinated process, be it rem-conf or a booking office. Isn't this what MMusic and CCCP should aim to address? From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 04:16:23 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <07767-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 01:15:35 +0000 Received: from waffle.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:14:43 +0100 To: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) cc: G.Michaelson@cc.uq.oz.au, J.P.Knight@loughborough.ac.uk, markus@octavia.anu.edu.au, rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Oct 94 15:57:36 +0400." <9410121957.AA06782@billings.csb> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 09:14:41 +0100 Message-ID: <791.782036081@cs.ucl.ac.uk> From: Jon Crowcroft >> Lets not make it too burocratic otherwise we'll end up with something that >> looks like the SuperJANET ATM video trial booking system. One of the >> benefits of the MBONE is its loose, easy going, cooperative environment. >Again, hear, hear. It will be tricky getting the balance right. agree the superjanet system is more Baroque than Burocratic:-) jon From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 04:20:04 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <07822-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 01:19:40 +0000 Received: from waffle.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:19:09 +0100 To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.edinburgh.ac.uk cc: "Jon P. Knight" , George Michaelson , Markus Buchhorn , rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Oct 94 18:52:58 BST." <1797.9410121752@scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 09:19:08 +0100 Message-ID: <919.782036348@cs.ucl.ac.uk> From: Jon Crowcroft >> looks like the SuperJANET ATM video trial booking system. One of the >> benefits of the MBONE is its loose, easy going, cooperative environment. >Don't be too prejudiced. Have you tried the WWW interface to it? The >URL is: > http://strat.ucs.ed.ac.uk/bookpage.html Graeme oops - sorry i just maligned your service before reading this and chekcing the web page how about you adapt it to include mbone stuff for the UK as a trial...and then ATM VP/VC booking for the PNO pilot - if it can handle that, we can go live on the whole earth mbone...? jon From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 06:32:49 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <08655-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 03:32:14 +0000 Received: from shrew.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 11:31:50 +0100 From: Mark Handley Organisation: University College London, CS Dept. Phone: +44 71 380 7777 ext 3666 To: finlayson@Eng.Sun.COM cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Oct 94 12:14:27 +0700." <9410121914.AA13934@auckland.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 11:31:48 +0100 Message-ID: <2203.782044308@cs.ucl.ac.uk> Sender: M.Handley@cs.ucl.ac.uk >I like the idea of leveraging off "sd". "sd" entries (if posted early >enough) contain enough information to enable someone to detect potential >conflicts. I like this idea too, but I wouldn't want entries months ahead to appear in the main sd window. How about a pop-up "future events" window, that lists events in time order rather than alphabetical order? Mark From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 07:21:12 1994 Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <08857-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 04:20:12 +0000 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.festival; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:47:42 +0100 Received: from cancer.ucs.ed.ac.uk by festival.ed.ac.uk id aa11475; 13 Oct 94 10:48 BST Received: from scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk by ucs.ed.ac.uk; Thu, 13 Oct 94 10:48:15 BST Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 10:48:15 BST Message-Id: <2910.9410130948@scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk> From: Graeme Wood Subject: Re: broadcast agenda To: Jon Crowcroft , Graeme.Wood@ucs.edinburgh.ac.uk In-Reply-To: Jon Crowcroft's message of Thu, 13 Oct 94 09:19:08 +0100 Reply-To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.edinburgh.ac.uk X-Department: Unix Systems Support, Computing Services X-Organisation: The University of Edinburgh X-Url: "http://ugwww.ucs.ed.ac.uk/~jaw/" X-Phone: +44 31 650 5003 X-Fax: +44 31 650 6552 Cc: "Jon P. Knight" , George Michaelson , Markus Buchhorn , rem-conf@es.net > oops - sorry i just maligned your service before reading this and > chekcing the web page > > how about you adapt it to include mbone stuff for the UK as a > trial...and then ATM VP/VC booking for the PNO pilot - if it can > handle that, we can go live on the whole earth mbone...? Adding the PNO pilot would probably be fairly easy to do but to expand it to include the MBONE would I think be difficult. The system is based on the Livenet booking system and so expanding it to cope with an unlimited number of sites is probably not an option. Graeme From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 07:30:41 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <08911-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 04:29:13 +0000 Received: from mercedes.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 12:28:57 +0100 To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Multimedia tools for DEC ALPHAs under OSF/1 V3.0 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 12:28:51 +0100 From: N.Ismail@cs.ucl.ac.uk Hi all, Any idea if the mbone tools (nv, vat, wb, imm and sd) are available for DEC Alphas running OSF/1 V3.0 or not?. Thanks, nermeen From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 07:49:24 1994 Received: from ceres.fokus.gmd.de by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <08986-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 04:48:07 +0000 Received: from fokus.gmd.de by ceres.fokus.gmd.de id <02870-0@ceres.fokus.gmd.de>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 12:50:33 +0100 To: J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk Subject: RE: IPng Implementation Project Cc: rem-conf@es.net Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 12:50:33 +0100 From: Lutz Henckel Sender: lutz.henckel@fokus.gmd.de Jon, sorry for the last incomplete message. We know that tremendous amount of work is needed to realize the shown protocol achitecture and for us it is only possible to implement a part of it. We also know that there exist many open questions needed to be answered because IPng is in a discussion phase as well as only internet drafts are available. Nevertheless the reason for my request was to collect information about implementator groups which also plan simular projects we can cooperate with or have already implementations available so we can use it. I think that the rem-conf@es.net mailing list is not the right one to discuss overall protocol architectures anyway let me give some clarifications: 1. From the technical point of view reconsile of Q.2931 and RSVP is an interessing approach. But from the political point of view do you realy think that the ITU and ATM-Forum are willing to adopt RSVP or corresponding mechanisms? I don't. So we have to live with Q.2931 for reservation in ATM subnets and will use RSVP for reservation in interconnected networks relying on Q.2931. 2. The / between RSVP and ST+ is an OR. Today I can not say more but we heard about plans to use only the enhanced control part of ST2/ST+ instead of RSVP. 3. CSCW applications need reliable multicasting and as an example the RMP - Reliable Multicast Protocol (http://hopper.cs.wvu.edu/~mtodd/RMP.html) provides the corresponding services. Ciao Lutz From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 08:20:40 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <09105-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 05:19:59 +0000 Received: from cbt.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 13:19:03 +0100 Organisation: University College London, CS Dept. Phone: +44 71 380 7777 ext 3462 or +44 71 387 7050 ext 3462 Fax: ++44 71 387 1397 To: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) cc: rem-conf@es.net, casner@isi.edu In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Oct 94 11:47:12 +0400." <9410051547.AA02388@billings.csb> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 13:18:56 +0100 From: Tony Ballardie This has now been re-scheduled for Friday 21st and Monday 24th Oct at the same times. It will be announced in "sd" next week. Sorry about the weekend in between, but as we're experiencing, it's not easy avoiding clashes. Tony > I'm afraid there is a conflict here. Both the ACM Multimedia Conference in > San Francisco, and the 2nd International World-Wide Web Conference in Chicago, > plan to be doing nearly full-time video and audio multicasts during the 17-18th > October (both announced in this list some weeks back). I'm the contact for > the WWW conference, Steve Casner (casner@isi.edu) is the contact for the > ACM MM meeting. The three of us should discuss this further... > > Cheerio, Rick Rodgers > > > From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 5 06:10 EDT 1994 > > Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 06:09:38 EDT > > Subject: IDMR conference > > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 11:06:12 +0100 > > From: Tony Ballardie > > > > > > The Inter-Domain Multicast Routing (IDMR) working group is > > planning an audio conference + whiteboard session on Monday 17th, > > and Tuesday 18th October, each session starting at 9:00 PDT, > > 17:00 BST (UTC+1) and lasting approximately 2 hours. > > > > For those interested, an overview of CBT multicast will be > > presented, its various interoperability issues discussed, > > as well as the presentation and discussion of various PIM issues > > and examples (presented by Estrin et al). > > > > Does this cause a conflict with any other planned multicast > > sessions? > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 08:53:36 1994 Received: from lhc.nlm.nih.gov by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <09351-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 05:52:13 +0000 Received: from billings.csb (billings.nlm.nih.gov) by nlm.nih.gov (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA21733; Thu, 13 Oct 94 08:50:44 EDT Received: by billings.csb (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA07902; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 08:51:44 +0500 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 08:51:44 +0500 From: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) Message-Id: <9410131251.AA07902@billings.csb> To: J.P.Knight@loughborough.ac.uk, G.Michaelson@cc.uq.oz.au, Graeme.Wood@ucs.edinburgh.ac.uk Subject: Re: broadcast agenda Cc: markus@octavia.anu.edu.au, rem-conf@es.net, mbone@isi.edu, casner@isi.edu, aronson@billings.nlm.nih.gov X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 934 > > Lets not make it too burocratic otherwise we'll end up with something that > > looks like the SuperJANET ATM video trial booking system. One of the > > benefits of the MBONE is its loose, easy going, cooperative environment. > > Don't be too prejudiced. Have you tried the WWW interface to it? The > URL is: > > http://strat.ucs.ed.ac.uk/bookpage.html > > Graeme This is also a non-functional prototype (as regards the automated booking of time slots), though a good start. What's needed is a blend of this plus the work of George Michaelson, plus a lot of thought about appropriate on-line help and documentation. It will still need a human shepherding it along and making certain that everything is in order. There's certainly nothing about a central booking system that works against a "loose, easy going, cooperative environment," in fact such a service could head off lots of unpleasantness. Cheerio, Rick Rodgers From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 09:29:30 1994 Received: from POSTOFFICE3.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <09610-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 06:28:18 +0000 Received: from [132.236.199.117] (SWB.CIT.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.199.117]) by postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA05834 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:28:13 -0400 X-Sender: swb1@postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:28:16 -0400 To: rem-conf@es.net From: Scott W Brim Subject: Re: broadcast agenda Hi, folks. First, unfortunately, both CU-SeeMe and nv have succeeded in melting parts of the Internet. Recently there were some folks at a shopping mall in Connecticut who turned up their minimum transmission rate to 300 or 400 Kbps, and there were two Macs at the SFO Exploratorium watching them. This is what inspired us to give reflector administrators the capability of setting a per-user maximum throughput rate. CU-SeeMe reflectors do use unicast at the moment, and if they are set up wrong they can send multiple streams over a particular circuit. People set up "nets" of reflectors all the time to minimize this. Since each "reflector net" has its own infrastructure, it isn't as complicated as setting up the mbone. While I'm at it, I should explain a few concepts we have for future implementation. Reflectors will multicast to each other in "reflector nets" authorized by their administrators. Each "reflector net" will use its own range of multicast groups, for control and data flow in each "conference". Thus traffic per conference will be minimized (to the extent the mbone traffic is minimized ... hmmm :-)), but we'll still have the administrative controls those network managers love, as well as an easy place to work on things like personalized information flows. We're going to hang on to the reflector concept for a while, even when reflectors and nv are seamlessly interoperable and when everything in the world supports multicast. It isn't in keeping with the "distribute everything ultimately" model which we all find extremely aesthetic, but it offers tremendous opportunities for exploration. Of course none of this will interfere with users connecting directly to each other. As for saving the world from meltdown ... well, I'm hoping that providers will charge what they have to to provide acceptable service -- that if they are being used heavily enough that they can't deliver what they have promised, then they will also be bringing in enough money to upgrade their infrastructure so that they *can* deliver. I don't have any answers for how to upgrade every school in the world so they can have good conferencing connectivity -- we're still trying to put as much information as possible in as little bandwidth as possible. ...Scott From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 09:55:43 1994 Received: from POSTOFFICE3.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <09798-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 06:54:38 +0000 Received: from [132.236.199.117] (SWB.CIT.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.199.117]) by postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA09065 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:54:29 -0400 X-Sender: swb1@postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:54:33 -0400 To: rem-conf@es.net From: Scott W Brim Subject: Re: broadcast agenda sd requires Unix and X. You want to define the underlying protocol, not the GUI. Most people don't use X anymore. From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 11:29:04 1994 Received: from uu5.psi.com by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <10397-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 08:27:29 +0000 Received: by uu5.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA27480 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 94 11:19:40 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 11:03:09 EDT From: hhs@teleoscom.com (Chip Sharp 6424) Received: by teleoscom.com (4.1/3.2.083191-Teleos Communications Inc.) id AA16521; Thu, 13 Oct 94 11:03:09 EDT Message-Id: <9410131503.AA16521@teleoscom.com> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: WB Description Is there a text description of the "wb" (shared whiteboard) application available on a mail server? Thanks, Chip From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 12:44:20 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <10975-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:43:03 +0000 Received: from rodent.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 17:42:15 +0100 To: Lutz Henckel cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: IPng Implementation Project In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Oct 94 12:50:33 BST." Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 17:42:14 +0100 Message-ID: <1390.782066534@cs.ucl.ac.uk> From: Jon Crowcroft >3. CSCW applications need reliable multicasting and as an example the > RMP - Reliable Multicast Protocol (http://hopper.cs.wvu.edu/~mtodd/RMP.html) > provides the corresponding services. Lutz this last point is extremely contentious it is our belief that the use of a relaible multicast protocol layerd between an application and IP (or other network layer) multicast is actually _counter productive_ to the design and implementation of distributed CSCW applications examples of things that scale, perform and can adapt and avoid congestion include wb, a tool we are developing here, and any continuous media tools.... examples of wide area tools for CSCW that use an embeded multicast protocol do not, as far as i am aware, exist...because they can't reliable multicast (unless it is simply a loibrary or toolkit of techniques used by an application) involves a number of choices all of which reduce the flexibility for a CSCW application designer to provide for inconsistney (a thing that peopel are relally quite good at handling) it normally imposes a level of relaibility that is at worst ABCast - totally inappropriate for timely multiuser update and at odds with actual findings (people cope with partial orderings that are temporarily non causal....they interally adapt to the different delay loops to other particpants....) it normally reduces the perforamnce of relaible send to the lowest performance link etc etc... if course, you can use something like the excellent psynch protocol to help with floor control or voting, or other deterministic causal ordered CSCW applications, but not for scalable performant ones... in our opinion... cheers jon From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 12:48:39 1994 Received: from curtis.ansremote.com by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <11075-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:47:45 +0000 Received: from curtis.ansremote.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by curtis.ansremote.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA00289; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 12:08:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199410131608.MAA00289@curtis.ansremote.com> To: Lutz Henckel cc: J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk, rem-conf@es.net Reply-To: curtis@ans.net Subject: Re: IPng Implementation Project In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Oct 1994 12:50:33 BST." <199410131251.AA08560@interlock.ans.net> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 12:08:31 -0400 From: Curtis Villamizar In message <199410131251.AA08560@interlock.ans.net>, Lutz Henckel writes: > > 1. From the technical point of view reconsile of Q.2931 and RSVP is an intere > ssing > approach. But from the political point of view do you realy think > that the ITU and ATM-Forum are willing to adopt RSVP or corresponding mech > anisms? > I don't. So we have to live with Q.2931 for reservation in ATM subnets and > will use RSVP for reservation in interconnected networks relying on Q.2931 > . The ITU and ATM Forum isn't running the Internet. No one organization is. It might be perfectly reasonable to run RSVP over a shared VC if ATM doesn't provide things like predictive QoS allowing better bandwidth sharing. It may be economically a better choice to set up a smaller number of high bandwidth VCs. This can be done independently of whether ITU or ATM Forum blesses the practice. Curtis From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 13:57:48 1994 Received: from bgate.lut.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <11660-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:57:04 +0000 Received: by suna.lut.ac.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03932; Thu, 13 Oct 94 18:56:21 BST Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:55:19 +0100 (BST) From: "Jon P. Knight" Subject: Re: broadcast agenda To: Scott W Brim Cc: rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 13 Oct 1994, Scott W Brim wrote: > sd requires Unix and X. You want to define the underlying protocol, > not the GUI. Most people don't use X anymore. sd is just one implementation of the protocol. sd_listen for example can use any old tty and sad makes no output at all if things are going well. Jon -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jon Knight, Research Student in High Performance Networking and Distributed Systems in the Department of _Computer_Studies_ at Loughborough University. * It's not how big your share is, its how much you share that's important * From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 14:03:24 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <11731-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 11:01:57 +0000 Received: from shrew.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:01:14 +0100 From: Mark Handley Organisation: University College London, CS Dept. Phone: +44 71 380 7777 ext 3666 To: hhs@teleoscom.com (Chip Sharp 6424) cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: WB Description In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Oct 94 11:03:09 EDT." <9410131503.AA16521@teleoscom.com> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 19:01:12 +0100 Message-ID: <3423.782071272@cs.ucl.ac.uk> Sender: M.Handley@cs.ucl.ac.uk >Is there a text description of the "wb" (shared whiteboard) >application available on a mail server? Do you mean "how it works" or "how you use it"? Roy Bennett did a first pass at a user guide some time ago (yes I know www isn't a mail server) http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/mice-nsc/mice-manuals/wb/uman-user-wb.html Mark From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 14:21:23 1994 Received: from black-ice.cc.vt.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <11899-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 11:19:46 +0000 Received: (from valdis@localhost) by black-ice.cc.vt.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA32169; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:19:35 -0400 Message-Id: <199410131819.OAA32169@black-ice.cc.vt.edu> To: Scott W Brim cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:54:33 EDT." From: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:19:34 +22306356 Sender: valdis@black-ice.cc.vt.edu On Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:54:33 EDT, you said: > sd requires Unix and X. You want to define the underlying protocol, > not the GUI. Most people don't use X anymore. Is this "most people are trapped on MS/DOS and Macs" dont use X, or "most people who used to use X are now using something else?" ;) I think the *real* issue is "what are most of the people who are going to be using the proposed function using"? Since most of the MBONE is currently Unix-based, last I heard, I think it's safe to assume that (at least for now) a Unix/X program is usable. I agree the protocol is what needs to be specified, but see no problem in using a particular system/software to prototype and test it. Hell, it worked for TCP/IP and BSD Unix. ;) /Valdis From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 15:13:18 1994 Received: from cathedral.cerc.wvu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <12267-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 12:11:16 +0000 Received: from elk (elk.cerc.wvu.edu) by cerc.wvu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0:RAL-041790) id AA05449; Thu, 13 Oct 94 15:10:39 EDT Received: by elk (5.0//ident-1.0) id AA02243; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 15:08:11 +0500 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 15:08:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd L. Montgomery" Subject: Re: IPng Implementation Project To: Jon Crowcroft , Brian Whetten Cc: Lutz Henckel , rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: <1390.782066534@cs.ucl.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 3162 On Thu, 13 Oct 1994, Jon Crowcroft wrote: > >3. CSCW applications need reliable multicasting and as an example the > > RMP - Reliable Multicast Protocol (http://hopper.cs.wvu.edu/~mtodd/RMP.html) > > provides the corresponding services. > > Lutz > > this last point is extremely contentious Sense I am the implementor and co-designer of RMP, I feel compelled to comment. > it is our belief that the use of a relaible multicast protocol layerd > between an application and IP (or other network layer) multicast is > actually _counter productive_ to the design and implementation of > distributed CSCW applications > examples of things that scale, perform and can adapt and avoid > congestion include wb, a tool we are developing here, and any > continuous media tools.... And hopefully RMP. Some initial performance tests have shown that RMP scales VERY well. And has good adaptive flow control and congestion control. > examples of wide area tools for CSCW that use an embeded multicast > protocol do not, as far as i am aware, exist...because they can't > reliable multicast (unless it is simply a loibrary or toolkit of > techniques used by an application) involves a number of choices all of > which reduce the flexibility for a CSCW application designer to > provide for inconsistney (a thing that peopel are relally quite good > at handling) Not necessarily true. RMP is being placed into several tools at the moment. RMP is a C++ library which can be run in two different methods, asynchronously, and within a control loop. We have taken great care to make the use of RMP as easy as possible and consistent with other programming paradigms. In most cases, designers can use RMP as if it were the same level as sockets. > it normally imposes a level of relaibility that is at worst ABCast - > totally inappropriate for timely multiuser update and at odds with > actual findings (people cope with partial orderings that are > temporarily non causal....they interally adapt to the different delay > loops to other particpants....) Latency is a problem, but RMP allows QoS to be picked on a per packet basis, therefore the user of the library can choose what resiliency they want their packets to have during runtime. > it normally reduces the perforamnce of relaible send to the lowest > performance link > > etc etc... This is still under debate. And does not necessarily have to be the case. > if course, you can use something like the excellent psynch > protocol to help with floor control or voting, or other deterministic > causal ordered CSCW applications, but not for scalable performant ones... > in our opinion... No. Psynch really is not scalable, IMHO. But RMP on the other hand does not suffer from the latency problems of Psynch. RMP provides TOTAL ordering at less cost than most causal ordering schemes, which I feel is in most cases does not provide enough. Jon, I urge you to check out RMP before making a final decision on Reliable Multicast protocols. A lot of work has and is being done in this area. Right now, RMP is in Alpha testing. We are hoping to make a Beta Release within a month. -- Todd From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 16:26:52 1994 Received: from nwu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <12735-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 13:25:47 +0000 Received: from annie.astro.nwu.edu by relay.acns.nwu.edu with SMTP (1.37.109.11/20.2) id AA032359847; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 15:24:07 -0500 Received: by annie.astro.nwu.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/15Jul94-0806PM) id AA06800; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 15:25:34 -0500 From: Robert "A." Lentz Message-Id: <9410132025.AA06800@annie.astro.nwu.edu> Subject: Re: broadcast agenda To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 15:25:33 -0500 (CDT) Cc: swb@nr-tech.cit.cornell.edu, rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: <199410131819.OAA32169@black-ice.cc.vt.edu> from "Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu" at Oct 13, 94 02:19:34 pm Reply-To: lentz@annie.astro.nwu.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1075 > On Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:54:33 EDT, you said: > > sd requires Unix and X. You want to define the underlying protocol, > > not the GUI. Most people don't use X anymore. > > Is this "most people are trapped on MS/DOS and Macs" dont use X >... Whether or not this is what he meant, it is true. > I think the *real* issue is "what are most of the people who are going > to be using the proposed function using"? Since most of the MBONE is > currently Unix-based, last I heard, I think it's safe to assume that > (at least for now) a Unix/X program is usable. Just because current practice is not able to include many people, why does that mean future practice should not attempt to include them? The interest certainly is there judging from CU-SeeMe activity. In the near future, many more platforms will be supporting multicast, so we might as well be ready for it. Just my two-cents worth. -Robert -- lentz@annie.astro.nwu.edu http://www.astro.nwu.edu/lentz/plan.html "You have to push as hard as the age that pushes against you." -Flannery O'Connor From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 17:18:28 1994 Received: from cs.tut.fi by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <13251-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:17:29 +0000 Received: from kaarne.cs.tut.fi (mit@kaarne.cs.tut.fi [130.230.3.2]) by cs.tut.fi (8.6.9/8.6.4) with ESMTP id XAA28633; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 23:19:40 +0200 From: Tsokkinen Mikko Received: (mit@localhost) by kaarne.cs.tut.fi (8.6.8/8.6.4) id XAA13595; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 23:17:15 +0200 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 23:17:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199410132117.XAA13595@kaarne.cs.tut.fi> To: N.Ismail@cs.ucl.ac.uk Cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Multimedia tools for DEC ALPHAs under OSF/1 V3.0 In-Reply-To: <199410131448.QAA22795@cs.tut.fi> References: <199410131448.QAA22795@cs.tut.fi> N.Ismail@cs.ucl.ac.uk writes: > > Hi all, > > Any idea if the mbone tools (nv, vat, wb, imm and sd) are available for DEC > Alphas running OSF/1 V3.0 or not?. I don't know what is your nearest site. Sd, vat and wb are available from ftp://ftp.cc.tut.fi/mbone/decalpha* However I have not yet installed the mrouted into our alpha, we got the ATM cards just recently. Mikko Tsokkinen Tampere University of Technology Research Assistant - Project FASTER Distributed Multimedia Applications over ATM-Network From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 18:39:31 1994 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <13772-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 15:38:00 +0000 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; id AA17305; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:36:27 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:36:27 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9410132236.AA17305@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Conferencing programs, sources, and FreeBSD 2.0 I recently went through the exercise of trying to put some interesting multimedia/conferencing software for the FreeBSD `ports' collection. (Aside: `ports' is a collection of software that the FreeBSD developers think may be of interest to our users. These are distributed as source patches to our -current users, and as binaries on our FTP site and on the Walnut Creek CD.) Unfortunately, the only program of the ones I know about for which I was able to find the source was `nv'. (Congratulations are in order for Ron; all I needed to do to make it work was change the Makefile a little bit.) So, if you are an author of multimedia/conferencing software and would like to see it made available to thousands of FreeBSD users around the world, please get in touch with me, and either tell me where I can FTP your source code, or give me a password file line so you can compile a version of your program on my machine. The deadline for our 2.0 release is the end of this month. Thanks. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 20:00:53 1994 Received: from POSTOFFICE3.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <14364-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 16:57:44 +0000 Received: from [132.236.199.117] (SWB.CIT.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.199.117]) by postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA22716; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:57:19 -0400 X-Sender: swb1@postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:57:22 -0400 To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu From: Scott W Brim Subject: Re: broadcast agenda Cc: rem-conf@es.net At 17:37 10/13/94, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: >Is this "most people are trapped on MS/DOS and Macs" dont use X, or >"most people who used to use X are now using something else?" ;) It's that most people who now use the Internet do not do so from X workstations. Most Unix users these days (e.g. clark.net etc.) don't have X or multimedia capabilities. Among those with multimedia-capable workstations, Unix users are a minority. >Since most of the MBONE is >currently Unix-based, last I heard, I think it's safe to assume that >(at least for now) a Unix/X program is usable. Good point. If this scheme is supposed to be useful more than nine months from now, though, it should take into account what Microsoft and Apple, and their millions of users, are up to. Sure, your tool would be just a prototype, but wouldn't it be neat if it were easy to make the prototype into something useful by millions of multicast users (as opposed to a couple thousand)? I really don't *prefer* these platforms. I'm just speaking the truth about the net. Our baby is growing up. ...Scott From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 20:54:58 1994 Received: from talisman.kaleida.com by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <14791-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 17:53:29 +0000 Received: from [198.186.10.120] (rodriguez.kaleida.com) by kaleida.com (4.1/Spike-2.1-(Kaleida)) id AA22784; Thu, 13 Oct 94 17:52:45 PDT Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 17:52:44 PDT Message-Id: <9410140052.AA22784@kaleida.com> X-Sender: aar@talisman.kaleida.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: mm-sig@jnt.ac.uk, wg-imm@rare.nl, mmis@mailbase.ac.uk, rem-conf@es.net From: aar@kaleida.com (Arturo A. Rodriguez) Subject: Final Program - Multimedia Computing and Networking 1995 For registration or additional information, please contact: SPIE, P O Box 10, Bellingham, WA 98225, USA Telephone: 206/676-3290, fax: 206/647-1445, email: spie@spie.org ***** MULTIMEDIA COMPUTING AND NETWORKING 1995 CONFERENCE Monday-Wednesday 6-8 February 1995 Part of IS&T/SPIE Symposium on Electronic Imaging: Science & Technology San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California, February 5-11, 1995 In Cooperation with IEEE Computer Society IEEE Communications Society Conference Chairs: Arturo A. Rodriguez, Kaleida Labs, Inc.; Jacek Maitan, Univ. of North Carolina/Charlotte Program Committee: H. W. Peter Beadle, Univ. of Wollongong (Australia); Shi-Kuo Chang, Univ. of Pittsburgh; Mon-Song Chen, InfoVision Technology; Jerome R. Cox, Jr., Washington Univ.; Jose J. Garcia-Luna, Univ. of California/Santa Cruz; Nicolas D. Georganas, Univ. of Ottawa (Canada); Simon J. Gibbs, German Nat. Research Ctr for Computer Science; Riccardo Gusella, Hewlett Packard Labs.; Wendy Hall, Univ. of Southampton (UK); Dilip D. Kandlur, IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr.; John O. Limb, Georgia Institute of Technology; Thomas D. C. Little, Boston Univ.; A. Desai Narasimhalu, National Univ. of Singapore; Bonnie Nardi, Apple Computer, Inc.; P. Venkat Rangan, Univ. of California/San Diego; Lawrence A. Rowe, Univ. of California/Berkeley; Ralf Steinmetz, IBM European Networking Ctr. (FRG); Scott M. Stevens, Carnegie Mellon Univ. ** Monday 6 February ** SESSION 1 - Multimedia Authoring and Presentation Chair: Wendy Hall, Univ. of Southampton (UK) 8:05 am: Putting the media into hypermedia, N. Beitner, W. Hall, Univ. of Southampton (UK); C. Goble, Univ. of Manchester (UK) 8:30 am: MEHIDA: an intelligent multimedia tutoring system for the hearing-impaired, F. Alonso, A. de Antonio, J. L. Fuertes, C. Montes, Univ. Politecnica de Madrid (Spain) 8:55 am: Representation-based user interfaces for the audiovisual library of year 2000, P. Aigrain, P. Joly, P. Lepain, V. Longueville, Univ. Toulouse III--Univ. Paul Sabatier (France) 9:20 am: Multimedia interactions and how they can be realized, D. Dingeldein, Zentrum fuer Graphische Datenverarbeitung eV (FRG) 9:45 am: Improvement of the user interface of multimedia applications by automatic display layout, P. Lueders, R. Ernst, Technische Univ. Braunschweig (FRG) Coffee Break .... 10:10 to 10:40 am SESSION 2 - Multimedia Computing and Applications Chair: Jacek Maitan, Univ. of North Carolina/Charlotte 10:35 am: Pyramid broadcasting for video-on-demand service, S. Viswanathan, T. Imielinski, Rutgers Univ 11:00 am: Look-ahead scheduling to support pause-resume for video-on-demand applications, P. S. Yu, J. L. Wolf, H. Shachnai, IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr 11:25 am: Capture and playback synchronization in video conferencing, Z. Shae, P. Chang, IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr.; M.-S. Chen, InfoVision Technology 11:50 am: Computer-based consultation for transfusion medicine, J. Maitan, Univ. of North Carolina/Charlotte Lunch Break .... 12:15 to 1:30 pm SESSION 3 - Multimedia Communications Chair: H. W. Peter Beadle, Univ. of Wollongong (Australia) 1:30 pm: Supporting quality of service on multimedia terminals interconnected by a low-speed ATM network, J. Judge, H. Beadle, Univ. of Wollongong (Australia) 1:55 pm: Multimedia networking abstractions with quality of service guarantees, A. A. Lazar, Columbia Univ.; L. H. Ngoh, A. Sahai, National Univ. of Singapore (Singapore) 2:20 pm: Resource and connection admission control in real-time transport protocols, S. Guo, N. D. Georganas, Univ. of Ottawa (Canada) 2:45 pm: OS/2 resource reservation system, M. Baugher, IBM Personal Software Products Coffee Break .... 3:10 to 3:40 pm SESSION 4 - Media Synchronization Chair: Shi-Kuo Chang, Univ. of Pittsburgh 3:40 pm: Transformations among multimedia schemas in distributed multimedia systems, C. Lin, C. Kao, S. Chang, Univ. of Pittsburgh 4:05 pm: Addressing the real-time synchronization requirements of multimedia in an object-oriented framework, M. Papathomas, G. S. Blair, G. Coulson, P. Robin, Lancaster Univ. (UK) 4:30 pm: Content-based multimedia synchronization, D. Oh, S. SampathKumar, P. Rangan, Univ. of California/San Diego 4:55 pm: COSMOS: frameworks for real-time multimedia group presentation, D. Song, J. Kim, H. Lim, J. Park, Y. Lim, Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute (Korea) 5:20 pm: Cineloop synchronization in the MADE environment, A. Lie, Norsk Regnesentral (Norway); N. Correia, INESC (Portugal) ** Tuesday 7 February ** SESSION 5 - Transmission Methods, Techniques, and Technology Chair: P. Venkat Rangan, Univ. of California/San Diego 8:05 am: Smoothing and buffering for delivery of compressed video, W. Feng, S. Sechrest, Univ. of Michigan 8:30 am: Techniques for resilient transmission of JPEG video streams, E. J. Posnak, S. P. Gallindo, A. P. Stephens, H. M. Vin, Univ. of Texas/Austin 8:55 am: Network distribution of highly scalable VBR video traffic, D. S. Taubman, A. Zakhor, Univ. of California/Berkeley 9:20 am: Statistical characterization of MPEG, VBR-encoded video at the slice layer, M. R. Izquierdo, IBM Corp.; D. S. Reeves, North Carolina State Univ. 9:45 am: Local distribution for interactive multimedia TV to the home, D. D. Harman, G. Huang, G. Im, M. Nguyen, J. J. Werner, M. K. Wong, AT&T Bell Labs Coffee Break .... 10:10 to 10:35 am SESSION 6 - Collaborative Multimedia Computing Chair: Jose J. Garcia-Luna, Univ. of California/Santa Cruz 10:35 am: Rethinking video as a technology for interpersonal communications, S. Whittaker, Lotus Development Corp. 11:00 am: Design issues for floor control protocols, H. Dommel, J. J. Garcia-Luna, Univ. of California/Santa Cruz 11:25 am: CSpray: a collaborative scientific visualization application, A. Pang, C. M. Wittenbrink, T. Goodman, Univ. of California/Santa Cruz 11:50 am: Virtual working systems to support R&D groups, P. M. Dew, C. Leigh, D. Morris, R. Drew, J. Curson, Univ. of Leeds (UK) Lunch/Exhibit Break .... 12:15 to 2:00 pm Program Keynotes .... Tues. 2:00 pm Chair: Arturo A. Rodriguez, Kaleida Labs, Inc. 2:00 pm: Multimedia networking protocols: where are we? (Invited Paper), Domenico Ferrari, Univ. of California/Berkeley 2:45 pm: Video compression vs image quality vs delay vs complexity vs profits: which one should be optimized? (Invited Paper), Barry G. Haskell, AT&T Bell Labs Coffee Break .... 3:30 to 4:00 pm Poster Presentations and Demonstrations - 4:00 to 5:30 pm * Exhibit Hall Demonstrations of video and multimedia applications by various authors will accompany the poster presentations. Application migration to reserved bandwidth networks, P. A. Stirpe, D. C. Verma, IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr Design and performance of a multistream MPEG-I system layer encoder/player set, J. A. Boucher, Z. Yaar, E. J. Rubin, J. D. Palmer, T. D. Little, Boston Univ. Multimedia object exchange manager for a distributed multimedia information system, J. Xiang, H. Chang, C. Kao, S. Chang, Univ. of Pittsburgh Analysis and optimization of a partial buffer sharing scheme for ATM switch overload control, S. Lu, H. A. Latchman, Univ. of Florida Improving NCSA Mosaic scalability through local area caching, J. Marino, G. Colla, A. Alessandri, Univ. di Genova (Italy); G. Succi, Univ. di Trento (Italy); A. Regoli, Univ. di Genova (Italy) Efficiently carrying bursty data on ATM networks, S. Duguid, H. Beadle, G. J. Anido, I. Kerekes, Univ. of Wollongong (Australia) Interactive video-on-demand services on cable TV networks, S. SampathKumar, P. Rangan, Univ. of California/San Diego Embedding interactive external program objects within open-distributed-hypermedia documents, M. D. Doyle, C. S. Ang, D. C. Martin, Univ. of California/San Francisco Application-level technique for faster transmission of large images on the internet, L. Long, L. E. Berman, National Library of Medicine; L. Neve, Century Corp.; G. Roy, AlliedSignal Inc.; G. R. Thoma, National Library of Medicine Automatic generation of pictorial transcripts of video programs, B. Shahraray, D. C. Gibbon, AT&T Bell Labs. ** Wednesday 8 February ** SESSION 8 - Multimedia Servers and Media Scheduling Chair: Dilip D. Kandlur, IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr. 8:05 am: Using rate staggering to store scalable video data in a disk-array-based video server, M. Chen, D. D. Kandlur, P. S. Yu, IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr 8:30 am: Storage server requirements for delivery of hypermedia documents, J. F. Buford, J. Rutledge, C. Gopal, Univ. of Massachusetts/Lowell 8:55 am: Admissions control and data placement for VBR video servers, E. Chang, A. Zakhor, Univ. of California/Berkeley 9:20 am: Formal method for analysis and design of periodic multimedia systems, S. Chatterjee, J. K. Strosnider, Carnegie Mellon Univ 9:45 am: Activation set: an abstraction for accessing periodic data streams, T. Helbig, S. Noureddine, K. Rothermel, Univ. Stuttgart (FRG) Coffee Break .... 10:10 to 10:35 am SESSION 9 - Video Browsing and Organization Chair: Thomas D. C. Little, Boston Univ. 10:35 am: Capture-time indexing paradigm, authoring tool, and browsing environment for broadcast video, M. Carreira, J. E. Casebolt, G. Desrosiers, T. D. Little, Boston Univ. 11:00 am: Content-based video browsing tools, H. Zhang, S. W. Smoliar, J. H. Wu, National Univ. of Singapore (Singapore) 11:25 am: Video browsing using clustering and scene transitions on compressed sequences, M. M. Yeung, B. Yeo, W. Wolf, B. Liu, Princeton Univ 11:50 am: Semantic data model for embedded image information, J. Griffioen, R. Mehrotra, R. Yavatkar, Univ. of Kentucky From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 20:56:16 1994 Received: from talisman.kaleida.com by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <14795-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 17:53:38 +0000 Received: from [198.186.10.120] (rodriguez.kaleida.com) by kaleida.com (4.1/Spike-2.1-(Kaleida)) id AA22789; Thu, 13 Oct 94 17:53:14 PDT Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 17:53:13 PDT Message-Id: <9410140053.AA22789@kaleida.com> X-Sender: aar@talisman.kaleida.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: mm-sig@jnt.ac.uk, wg-imm@rare.nl, mmis@mailbase.ac.uk, rem-conf@es.net From: aar@kaleida.com (Arturo A. Rodriguez) Subject: Final Program - Digital Video Compression: Algorithms and Technologies 1995 For registration or additional information, please contact: SPIE, P O Box 10, Bellingham, WA 98225, USA Telephone: 206/676-3290, fax: 206/647-1445, email: spie@spie.org ***** DIGITAL VIDEO COMPRESSION: ALGORITHMS & TECHNOLOGIES 1995 CONFERENCE Tuesday-Friday 7-10 February 1995 Part of IS&T/SPIE Symposium on Electronic Imaging: Science & Technology San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California, February 5-11, 1995 In Cooperation with: IEEE Computer Society IEEE Communications Society Conference Chairs: Arturo A. Rodriguez, Kaleida Labs, Inc.; Robert J. Safranek, AT&T Bell Labs.; Edward J. Delp, Purdue Univ. Program Committee: V. Michael Bove, Jr., MIT Media Lab.; Alexander I. Drukarev, Hewlett Packard Labs.; Ephraim Feig, IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr.; Chad E. Fogg, Chromatic Research Corp.; James D. Johnston, AT&T Bell Labs.; Riccardo Leonardi, Univ. of Brescia (Italy); John O. Limb, Georgia Institute of Technology; King N. Ngan, Univ. of Western Australia (Australia); James O. Normile, Apple Computer, Inc.; Michael T. Orchard, Univ. of Illinois/Urbana-Champaign; Davis Y. Pan, Motorola Corporate Research; Sethuraman Panchanathan, Univ. of Ottawa (Canada); K. R. Rao, Univ. of Texas/Arlington; Subramania I. Sudharsanan, Digital Equipment Corp.; Eric Viscito, IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr. **Tuesday 7 February ** Program Keynotes .... Tues. 2:00 - 3:30 pm Chair: Arturo A. Rodriguez, Kaleida Labs, Inc. 2:00 pm: Multimedia networking protocols: where are we? (Invited Paper), Domenico Ferrari, Univ. of California/Berkeley 2:45 pm: Video compression vs image quality vs delay vs complexity vs profits: which one should be optimized? (Invited Paper), Barry G. Haskell, AT&T Bell Labs Coffee Break .... 3:30 to 4:00 pm Poster Presentations and Demonstrations - 4:00 to 5:30 pm * Exhibit Hall Demonstrations of video and multimedia applications by various authors will accompany the poster presentations. Block adaptation classified vector quantization, H. P. Truong, S. Ho, Curtin Univ. of Technology (Australia) High-performance software MPEG video player for PCs, S. Eckart, Fraunhofer-Institut fuer Festkoerpertechnologie (FRG) Reconstruction artifacts in digital video compression, M. Yuen, H. R. Wu, Monash Univ. (Australia) Feature-preserving wavelet scheme for low-bit-rate coding, P. Cheng, C. J. Kuo, Univ. of Southern California Real-time MPEG-1 software decoding on HP workstations, V. Bhaskaran, K. Konstantinides, Hewlett-Packard Labs DCT-based scheme for lossless image compression, G. D. Mandyam, N. Ahmed, N. Magotra, Univ. of New Mexico Wavelet codec for image sequence coding at very low bit rate with low latency, S. Abraham, Univ. Jena (FRG); F. Seytter, Siemens AG (FRG) Very low bit-rate coding for PSTN videotelephony on personal computer: part 2, J. Schmitt, G. Eude, France Telecom/Ctr. National d'Etudes des Telecommunications (France) Real-time H.261 software-based codec on the Power Mac, H. Wu, K. S. Wang, J. O. Normile, K. Chu, D. Ponceleon, Apple Computer Multiplication free scaled 8 x 8 DCT algorithm with 530 additions, L. Kasperovich, Space Research Institute (Russia) New inner product algorithm of the 2D DCT, B. Feher, Technical Univ. of Budapest (Hungary) Vector-quantization-based scalable image compression, S. Panchanathan, A. Jain, Univ. of Ottawa (Canada) ** Wednesday 8 February ** SESSION 1 - Scene Change Detection and Video Indexing Chair: Arturo A. Rodriguez, Kaleida Labs, Inc. 1:35 pm: Scene change detection and content-based sampling of video sequences, B. Shahraray, AT&T Bell Labs 2:00 pm: Scene change detection in a MPEG-compressed video sequence, Y. Juan, Hitachi America, Ltd.; S. Chang, Columbia Univ 2:25 pm: Scene decomposition of MPEG compressed video, H. H. Liu, G. L. Zick, Univ. of Washington 2:50 pm: Temporal segmentation of videos: a new approach, M. Cherfaoui, C. Bertin, CCETT (France) Coffee Break .... 3:15 to 3:40 pm SESSION 2 - Low Bit Rate Coding Chair: Riccardo Leonardi, Univ. of Brescia (Italy) 3:40 pm: Single-frame prediction for high video compression, R. Leonardi, Univ. of Brescia (Italy) 4:05 pm: Variable block size video coding with motion prediction and motion segmentation, K. Zhang, M. Bober, J. Kittler, U. of Surrey (UK) 4:30 pm: Ordered Kohonen vector quantization for very low rate interframe video coding, H. Liu, Univ. of Hawaii/Manoa 4:55 pm: Segmentation-based scheme for very low-bit-rate video coding, V. Bhaskaran, Hewlett-Packard Labs.; W. Li, M. Kunt, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (Switzerland) 5:20 pm: Active compression: a framework for video conferencing at very low bit rates, M. Sipitca, T. J. Klausutis, V. K. Madisetti, Georgia Institute of Technology ** Thursday 9 February ** SESSION 3 MPEG Video Chair: Robert J. Safranek, AT&T Bell Labs. 8:05 am: ISO/IEC MPEG-2 software video codec, S. Eckart, Fraunhofer-Institut fuer Festkoerpertechnologie (FRG); C. E. Fogg, Chromatic Research Corp 8:30 am: Performance evaluation of MPEG-2 for HDTV, D. Lauzon, A. Vincent, L. Wang, Communications Research Ctr. (Canada) 8:55 am: Impact of scan conversion methods on the performance of scalable video coding, E. Dubois, N. Baaziz, INRS-Telecommunications (Canada); M. Matta, McGill Univ. (Canada) 9:20 am: Forward-adaptive quantization with optimal overhead cost for image and video coding with applications to MPEG video coders, A. Ortega, Univ. of Southern California; K. Ramchandran, Univ. of Illinois/Urbana-Champaign 9:45 am: Rate-quantization modeling for rate control of MPEG video coding and recording, W. Ding, B. Liu, Princeton Univ Coffee Break .... 10:10 to 10:40 am SESSION 4 - Motion Estimation Techniques I Chair: K. R. Rao, Univ. of Texas/Arlington 10:40 am: Motion-compensated interpolation using trajectories with acceleration, M. Chahine, McGill Univ. (Canada); J. Konrad, INRS-Telecommunications (Canada) 11:05 am: Projection methods in motion estimation and compensation, M. Vetterli, T. Kalker, Univ. of California/Berkeley 11:30 am: Performance evaluation of spatial dynamic motion compensation algorithms, H. R. Wu, A. P. Paplinski, Q. X. Jian, M. Yuen, Monash Univ. (Australia) Lunch/Exhibit Break .... 11:55 am to 1:30 pm SESSION 5 - Motion Estimation Techniques II Chair: Michael T. Orchard, Univ. of Illinois/Urbana-Champaign 1:30 pm: Multiresolution framework for backward motion compensation, A. Nosratinia, M. T. Orchard, Univ. of Illinois/Urbana-Champaign 1:55 pm: Pyramid decompositions and hierarchical motion compensation, D. Houlding, J. Vaisey, Simon Fraser Univ. (Canada) 2:20 pm: Fast motion vector estimation with a Markov model for MPEG, S. Kim, C. J. Kuo, Univ. of Southern California 2:45 pm: Simple way to improve perceived quality of motion-compensated prediction images, B. Deknuydt, S. Desmet, L. Van Eycken, A. J. Oosterlinck, Katholieke Univ. Leuven (Belgium) Coffee Break .... 3:10 to 3:40 pm SESSION 6 - Video Analysis Chair: V. Michael Bove, Jr., MIT Media Lab. 3:40 pm: Segmentation of frames in a video sequence using motion and other attributes, E. Chalom, V. Bove, Jr., MIT Media Lab 4:05 pm: Mosaic-based video compression, M. Irani, S. Hsu, P. Anandan, David Sarnoff Research Ctr 4:30 pm: Encoding motion and approximate segmentation in a slicing floorplan tree structure, H. Schweitzer, Univ. of Texas/Dallas; Y. Zhang, Southern Methodist Univ 4:55 pm: Multiresolutional region-based segmentation scheme for stereoscopic image sequence compression, S. Sethuraman, M. W. Siegel, A. G. Jordan, Carnegie Mellon Univ 5:20 pm: Classification of objects in a video sequence, B. Carpentieri, Univ. di Salerno (Italy); J. A. Storer, Brandeis Univ ** Friday 10 February ** SESSION 7 Coding Methods and Techniques Chair: Subramania I. Sudharsanan, Digital Equipment Corp. 8:05 am: Volume data compression using smoothed particle transformation, M. Nagasawa, Hitachi Central Research Lab. (Japan) 8:30 am: Algorithm for fast fractal image compression, J. Kominek, Univ. of Waterloo (Canada) 8:55 am: Software codec-based full-motion video conferencing on the PC using visual pattern image sequence coding, B. S. Barnett, A. C. Bovik, Univ. of Texas/Austin 9:20 am: Knowledge-based approach to JPEG acceleration, K. Froitzheim, H. Wolf, Univ. Ulm (FRG) 9:45 am: New generation of real-time software-based video codec: popular video coder II (PVC-II), H. Huang, J. Wu, National Taiwan Univ. Coffee Break .... 10:10 to 10:40 am SESSION 8 Wavelet Coding Chair: Sethuraman Panchanathan, Univ. of Ottawa (Canada) 10:40 am: Wavelet-based scalable image compression, S. Panchanathan, A. Jain, Univ. of Ottawa (Canada) 11:05 am: Vector quantization of wavelet-transformed coefficients for image and video coding, Y. H. Ang, M. Bi, S. Ong, National Univ. of Singapore 11:30 am: Efficient algorithm for video compression using wavelet transform, V. M. Silva, L. A. de Sa, Univ. de Coimbra (Portugal) Lunch Break .... 11:55 am to 1:30 pm SESSION 9 - Coding Techniques and Implementations Chair: Edward J. Delp, Purdue Univ. 1:30 pm: Runlength encoding of quantized DCT coefficients, V. Ratnakar, Univ. of Wisconsin/Madison; E. Feig, E. Viscito, IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr.; S. Kalluri, Univ. of Delaware 1:55 pm: Parallel implementation of an MPEG1 encoder: faster than real time!, K. Shen, E. J. Delp, Purdue Univ 2:20 pm: Scan image compression/encryptor: algorithm and hardware design, N. G. Bourbakis, SUNY/Binghamton and Univ. of Crete (Greece); W. Tariq, SUNY/Binghamton; C. Alexopoulos, Univ. of Patras (Greece) 2:45 pm: Fast VLSI architecture for 8 x 8 2D DCT, H. De Perthuis, E. Bercovici, A. De Grandmaison, M. Akil, Groupe ESIEE (France) From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 21:16:22 1994 Received: from ncb.gov.sg by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <14954-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:14:15 +0000 Received: by ncb.gov.sg (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10751; Fri, 14 Oct 94 09:10:39 SST Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:10:38 +0800 (SST) From: Tan Pow Hwee Subject: Re: Multimedia tools for DEC ALPHAs under OSF/1 V3.0 To: N.Ismail@cs.ucl.ac.uk Cc: rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: <9410131154.AA09578@iti.gov.sg> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 13 Oct 1994 N.Ismail@cs.ucl.ac.uk wrote: > > Hi all, > > Any idea if the mbone tools (nv, vat, wb, imm and sd) are available for DEC > Alphas running OSF/1 V3.0 or not?. > Try ftp.adelaide.edu.au. I don't recall the exact path, but it wasn't difficult to find it. Regards, Pow-hwee Tan powhwee@ncb.gov.sg From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 13 21:49:28 1994 Received: from rpi.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <15209-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:47:07 +0000 Received: from hibp.ecse.rpi.edu (hibp7.ecse.rpi.edu) by rpi.edu (4.1/SMHUB41); id AA08737; Thu, 13 Oct 94 21:46:57 EDT for rem-conf@es.net Received: from hibp6.ecse.rpi.edu by hibp.ecse.rpi.edu (4.1/ST26); id AA06662 for rem-conf@es.net; Thu, 13 Oct 94 21:46:56 EDT Message-Id: <9410140146.AA06662@hibp.ecse.rpi.edu> To: Scott W Brim Cc: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu, rem-conf@es.net, stewart@hibp6.ecse.rpi.edu Subject: Re: broadcast agenda In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:57:22 EDT." X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4zeta 6/3/94 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 21:46:54 -0400 From: Paul Stewart > >Since most of the MBONE is > >currently Unix-based, last I heard, I think it's safe to assume that > >(at least for now) a Unix/X program is usable. > > Good point. If this scheme is supposed to be useful more than nine > months from now, though, it should take into account what Microsoft and > Apple, and their millions of users, are up to. Sure, your tool would > be just a prototype, but wouldn't it be neat if it were easy to make > the prototype into something useful by millions of multicast users (as > opposed to a couple thousand)? > > [Rest of discussion deleted] I think a little perspective is required in order to keep this discussion on track. Discussion of the platform on which an application will be run is inconsequential. The whole UNIX/X vs Windows vs Macintosh vs anything else really isn't the point. Fact is, it'd be nice to support all of these platforms. I think the real discussion here should be about protocol. There is nothing about the protocol that sd is based on (I haven't seen the code so I might be wrong, but I'd be surprised) that necessarily pre-empts porting away from UNIX/X. I think the original message from Ross Finlayson (correct me if I'm incorrect) might have had a completely different motivation: > I like the idea of leveraging off "sd". "sd" entries (if posted early > enough) contain enough information to enable someone to detect potential > conflicts. He mignt not have been referring to that application in particular, but just the basic session directory protocol or interface ideas. Taken in that light, and in light of the efforts by most computer vendors (including Apple and Microsoft) to include multicast in their respective networking interfaces, the concept of a multicast-based protocol for scheduling sessions has some validity. The other arguments that have cropped up in favor of, and against a multicast, loosely bound session scheduling system is, I think a more valid issue to haggle over, although I won't address them in this email. -- Paul From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 14 03:45:52 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <16970-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:45:16 +0000 Received: from waffle.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 08:44:20 +0100 To: "Todd L. Montgomery" cc: Brian Whetten , Lutz Henckel , rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: IPng Implementation Project In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Oct 94 15:08:09 EDT." Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 08:44:16 +0100 Message-ID: <600.782120656@cs.ucl.ac.uk> From: Jon Crowcroft >Jon, I urge you to check out RMP before making a final decision >on Reliable Multicast protocols. A lot of work has and is being >done in this area. >Right now, RMP is in Alpha testing. We are hoping to make a Beta >Release within a month. Todd as application implementors not using a lower layer reliable multicast protocol, i assure you we don't need one - we have workable applications already without one, so why put another layer in! i have read the RMP spec (and have designed reliable multicast transport protocols myself - see sigcomm88, and ftp://cs.ucl.ac.uk/darpa/tcp-multicast.lp) and i believe you have designed an excellent reliable multicast protocol, but i don't see its general applicability for CSCW applications - i.e. ones with humans at all end points and hence one that can take account of weak consistency requirements and run with completely different _loss_ patterns (NOT QoS parameters) on subsets of the multicast trees from senders to group - i see RMP as useful for things with computers at end points! cheers jon From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 14 05:57:28 1994 Received: from bgate.lut.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <17888-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 02:56:46 +0000 Received: by suna.lut.ac.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09521; Fri, 14 Oct 94 10:55:56 BST Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:45:31 +0100 (BST) From: "Jon P. Knight" Subject: Re: IPng Implementation Project To: Jon Crowcroft Cc: "Todd L. Montgomery" , Brian Whetten , Lutz Henckel , rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: <600.782120656@cs.ucl.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 14 Oct 1994, Jon Crowcroft wrote: > i see RMP as useful for things with computers at end points! Just to throw my oar in the water here, I tend to agree with Jon (us Jons have to stick together :-) ). I've spent the last week or so building a quick'n'dirty multicast transport protocol layered on top of Multicast UDP packets (UDPs not really needed; its just easier and more portable IMHO to treat it as the network layer rather use IP directly. And I'm lazy as well :-) ). My reason for doing it was that I needed a sequenced, semi-reliable means of sending multipacket requests between local clients and remote computational engines; ie between two computers. Here it can be a big win as computer programs aren't usually too good at dealing with missing code or data. Humans on the other hand are; just look at vat, nv, wb, etc. Even with relatively large packet loss, these application provide adequate performance for lots of communicating humans. Still, its nice to suddenly get a rush of useful references to multicast transport protocols that I can refer to in my papers/thesis. Anyone got anymore? Jon -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jon Knight, Research Student in High Performance Networking and Distributed Systems in the Department of _Computer_Studies_ at Loughborough University. * It's not how big your share is, its how much you share that's important * From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 14 09:29:06 1994 Received: from cathedral.cerc.wvu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <19090-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 06:28:30 +0000 Received: from elk (elk.cerc.wvu.edu) by cerc.wvu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0:RAL-041790) id AA29549; Fri, 14 Oct 94 09:28:16 EDT Received: by elk (5.0//ident-1.0) id AA04004; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:25:49 +0500 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:25:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd L. Montgomery" Subject: Re: IPng Implementation Project To: Jon Crowcroft Cc: Brian Whetten , Lutz Henckel , rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: <600.782120656@cs.ucl.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1371 On Fri, 14 Oct 1994, Jon Crowcroft wrote: > i have read the RMP spec (and have designed reliable multicast > transport protocols myself - see sigcomm88, and > ftp://cs.ucl.ac.uk/darpa/tcp-multicast.lp) and i believe you have > designed an excellent reliable multicast protocol, but i don't see its > general applicability for CSCW applications - i.e. ones with humans at > all end points and hence one that can take account of weak consistency > requirements and run with completely different _loss_ patterns (NOT > QoS parameters) on subsets of the multicast trees from senders to > group - i see RMP as useful for things with computers at end points! As Brian Whetten has pointed out to me, (And I think I have final gotten through my skull :), we are really arguing two different points. I do agree with the comments above. When it comes to the general kind of CSCW apps, reliability and resiliency are not as critical as scalability and "promptness" of delivery. And nothing can scale to hundreds or thousands of simultaneous users like a totally NACK based protocol.... I look at reliable multicast to do the things the database community has wanted, and the things TCP is being used for today (i.e. object distribution). These apps need resiliency and total ordering. Jon, Thanks for the kudos! Have you seen how Brian and I have redesigned RMP? -- Todd From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 14 10:23:27 1994 Received: from news.intelsat.int by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <19291-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 07:22:43 +0000 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news.intelsat.int (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA15553 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:24:38 -0400 Received: from access2.intelsat.int(164.86.100.100) by news via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma015545; Fri Oct 14 09:23:43 1994 Received: by access2.intelsat.int (5.65/1.1.3.6) id AA16526; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:22:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:22:39 -0400 From: Sherman Hsieh Message-Id: <9410141422.AA16526@access2.intelsat.int> To: rem-conf@es.net subscribe rem-conf From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 14 12:12:06 1994 Received: from tenet.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <20212-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:11:34 +0000 Received: (from whetten@localhost) by tenet.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.6) id JAA12663; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:11:00 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:11:00 -0700 From: Brian Whetten Message-Id: <199410141611.JAA12663@tenet.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU> To: J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk, tmont@cerc.wvu.edu Subject: Re: IPng Implementation Project Cc: lutz.henckel@fokus.gmd.de, rem-conf@es.net, whetten@tenet.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU Well...let me just put my two cents in. I feel very strongly that reliable multicast protocols do play a valuable role, both in distributed applications between computers (i.e. distributed databases, simulations, etc.) as well as in a large variety of CSCW apps. It may not, be totally appropriate for _all_ CSCW apps. I have had some very productive discussions on this topic with Steve McCanne (implementor of the mbone wb tool among other things), and I think we have agreed that different classes of CSCW apps are best served by each of the two approaches (though I can't speak for him on this). For apps that are basically for dissemination of semi-reliable data, the app-based multicast solution will work best for situations with large numbers of users in highly lossy environments (such as the current mbone). RM protocols are useful for apps that need reliable data transfer but don't have to scale to such harsh loads. The key problem with RM to large groups over the Internet is that the high losses and partitions seen in this environment will limit a RM protocol to the bandwidth of the slowest receiver. In the short term, this mandates that you either have a large amount of buffering or you pay a latency/throughput penalty each time some user drops out of touch for a while. These problems can be avoided by using semi-reliable delivery of disseminated information. For example, with the wb, different users cannot mutate each other's pages, and the users may see inconsistent sets of pages for relatively long periods of time. Because the destinations can't mutate the data from a sender, the data can be buffered in the application instead of in the transport layer, which seems to be the crux of the argument for application level RM. I don't know your solution, however, so I may not have the whole picture. This is a clever solution for dealing with an extreme case of lots (potentially 100s) of users in a session with high losses/partitions. For these apps, a true RM protocol may not scale as well. News would seem to also fall into this class, although I am not certain what other apps would. This scalability comes at a cost. The applications have to deal with the transport layer, which adds complication. The apps also have to figure out how to isolate their data from each other, and the users have to be willing to deal with the inconsistent states that arise. Looking at wb apps, I don't think this would be the case for commercial implementations. For applications that don't fit these conditions, RM protocols provide a lot of functionality and a very easy to use interface. The optional total ordering of messages, for example, only costs a moderate latency penalty in RMP and has no affect on throughput in no-loss environments. We don't expect RMP to scale as highly as the wb in environments with lots of partitions, but we feel that these partitions should decrease (hopefully dramatically) in the future. If such scalability isn't needed, total ordering makes it very easy to build a white board or any other type of shared tool with fully consistent user views, with the users allowed to modify each other's work or to modify shared documents. In addition, I feel that RM protocols can achieve almost as high of scalability if they are willing to trust the applications. The key point of application level multicast is to allow the application to hold on to the buffers. This can still be done with a RM protocol, as long as the protocol can request that the buffers be returned to it. And with a true RM protocol, packets are eventually made stable when the members know that each member has received the packet. This allows them to limit the amount of information that has to be retained. So, in conclusion, while RM protocols may not be as suitable for wide audience dissemination type applications, I feel that they provide a lot of benefits for most other RM applications and loads, and I think that even the scalability advantages gained by the application level protocols can be mitigated by careful work. Brian Whetten whetten@cs.berkeley.edu From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 14 12:28:33 1994 Received: from taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <20357-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:27:45 +0000 Received: from dude.cs.nps.navy.mil by taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17061; Fri, 14 Oct 94 09:29:06 PDT Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:29:05 +48000 From: Michael Macedonia To: "Todd L. Montgomery" Cc: Jon Crowcroft , Brian Whetten , Lutz Henckel , rem-conf@es.net Subject: Reliability and Mbone latency In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This discussion begs the question about latency on the Mbone. Interactive apps (the ones with humans in the loop) have low delay tolerances. 1. Does anyone have any data(study) that shows what time delays (and variations) are being experienced on the Mbone? 2. Any suggestions on how to do an experiment (eg. multicast ping)? Mike Macedonia | macedonia@cs.nps.navy.mil MAJ, USA | CS Dept, Naval Postgraduate School, | Monterey, CA 93943 | PH:(408) 656-2903 FAX:(408) 656-2814 ------------------------------------------------------------ From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 14 12:34:11 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <20408-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:32:59 +0000 Received: from mortimer.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 17:31:57 +0100 To: Brian Whetten cc: tmont@cerc.wvu.edu, lutz.henckel@fokus.gmd.de, rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: IPng Implementation Project In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Oct 94 09:11:00 PDT." <199410141611.JAA12663@tenet.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 17:31:58 +0100 Message-ID: <3890.782152318@cs.ucl.ac.uk> From: Jon Crowcroft >the mbone wb tool among other things), and I think we have agreed that >different classes of CSCW apps are best served by each of the two approaches >(though I can't speak for him on this). yes - i agree there are 2 valid approaches for the 2 classes. >The key problem with RM to large groups over the Internet >is that the high losses and partitions seen in this environment will >limit a RM protocol to the bandwidth of the slowest receiver. In the >short term, this mandates that you either have a large amount of buffering >or you pay a latency/throughput penalty each time some user drops out of >touch for a while. These problems can be avoided by using semi-reliable >delivery of disseminated information. For example, with the wb, different >users cannot mutate each other's pages, and the users may see inconsistent >sets of pages for relatively long periods of time. Because the destinations >can't mutate the data from a sender, the data can be buffered in the >application instead of in the transport layer, which seems to be the >crux of the argument for application level RM. I don't know your solution, >however, so I may not have the whole picture. the model of wb having a thread of state per source is cute. it gets round a lot of problems like add/delete/modify sequences from different sources arriving at different sites in different orders... if you do permit mutual modificvations, there there is a refinement of the model (or at least what i udnerstand of it) which is to have more semantics in the application operations. then you can recover afgter partitions morequicky by aggregating the effects of the operations at the source, and sending the shorter sequence ...or the actual state of the application, whichever is less load on the net... >This is a clever solution for dealing with an extreme case of lots >(potentially 100s) of users in a session with high losses/partitions. >For these apps, a true RM protocol may not scale as well. News would seem to >also fall into this class, although I am not certain what other apps would. well, news is sort of "write only"...:-) >This scalability comes at a cost. The applications have to deal with the >transport layer, which adds complication. The apps also have to figure >out how to isolate their data from each other, and the users have to >be willing to deal with the inconsistent states that arise. Looking at wb >apps, I don't think this would be the case for commercial implementations. we are very interested in protocol modularity and re-use and would like to see if elements of an RM can simply be made avaialble in the "application layer..." >In addition, I feel that RM protocols can achieve almost as high of scalability >if they are willing to trust the applications. The key point of application >level multicast is to allow the application to hold on to the buffers. >This can still be done with a RM protocol, as long as the protocol can >request that the buffers be returned to it. And with a true RM protocol, >packets are eventually made stable when the members know that each >member has received the packet. This allows them to limit the >amount of information that has to be retained. this is clearly a good way to go... >So, in conclusion, while RM protocols may not be as suitable for >wide audience dissemination type applications, I feel that they provide >a lot of benefits for most other RM applications and loads, and I >think that even the scalability advantages gained by the application >level protocols can be mitigated by careful work. i think we're having an agreement cheers jon From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 14 12:42:54 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <20494-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:41:16 +0000 Received: from mortimer.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 17:40:16 +0100 To: Michael Macedonia cc: "Todd L. Montgomery" , Brian Whetten , Lutz Henckel , rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Reliability and Mbone latency In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Oct 94 09:29:05." Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 17:40:14 +0100 Message-ID: <4093.782152814@cs.ucl.ac.uk> From: Jon Crowcroft >1. Does anyone have any data(study) that shows what time delays (and >variations) are being experienced on the Mbone? >2. Any suggestions on how to do an experiment (eg. multicast ping)? we did some work with atanu ghosh's rtp monitoring tool when we first made it availalble, but we have been waiting since to use the session/quality messages in the new RTP to get a better feel for such stats... we are also very busy trying to figure out how to move our mbone partially to the uk atm backbone.... however, note that a mbone vat stat report gives you instant feedback on loss, reordering and variance of delay via the playout buffer... for actual rtts, as you say, ping, but its rather antisocial - runing ntp on all the mrouted machiens would be better... jon From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 14 15:57:10 1994 Received: from taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <22188-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 12:56:07 +0000 Received: from dude.cs.nps.navy.mil by taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23248; Fri, 14 Oct 94 12:57:43 PDT Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 12:57:39 +48000 From: Michael Macedonia To: Jon Crowcroft Cc: "Todd L. Montgomery" , Brian Whetten , Lutz Henckel , rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Reliability and Mbone latency In-Reply-To: <4093.782152814@cs.ucl.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > for actual rtts, as you say, ping, but its rather antisocial - > runing ntp on all the mrouted machiens would be better... > > > jon > > Jon, In the interest of science would this be so bad? I was thinking that for the next shuttle launch I might do a multicast ping and get the rtts for the normally large group. Would announce the tests and do it for short durations. Also, does anyone have a collection of _any_ data on the mbone that I use? Mike From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 14 16:03:41 1994 Received: from cathedral.cerc.wvu.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <22263-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 13:02:32 +0000 Received: from elk (elk.cerc.wvu.edu) by cerc.wvu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0:RAL-041790) id AA09744; Fri, 14 Oct 94 16:01:44 EDT Received: by elk (5.0//ident-1.0) id AA04425; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:59:12 +0500 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:59:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd L. Montgomery" Subject: Re: Reliability and Mbone latency To: Michael Macedonia Cc: Jon Crowcroft , Brian Whetten , Lutz Henckel , rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1229 On Fri, 14 Oct 1994, Michael Macedonia wrote: > > This discussion begs the question about latency on the Mbone. > > Interactive apps (the ones with humans in the loop) have low delay > tolerances. > > 1. Does anyone have any data(study) that shows what time delays (and > variations) are being experienced on the Mbone? I have just data that I have gathered through some tests of RMP over TTLs of 33 (2 LANs connected by mrouted's) and a TTL of 78 (several hops from WV to IL). The 33 TTL case was very consistent at about 20 msec. and the large case varied on extremes (smallest being about 30 msec. and longest of 90 msec.) But these have only been run a few times and are by far complete in any way. > 2. Any suggestions on how to do an experiment (eg. multicast ping)? This is I have been calculating latency in my performance tests: site 1 sends a message, site 2 waits until receiving message, site 2 gets message, then sends message, site 1 waits until receiving message, site 1 gets message, then sends message, etc.... If you have three sites, you have to put something in the message saying who is to send next..... We call this "ping-ponging". Then latency is total_time/total_num_messages. -- Todd From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 14 19:11:45 1994 Received: from Sun.COM by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <23541-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 16:10:56 +0000 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (zigzag.Eng.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (sun-barr.Sun.COM) id AA26207; Fri, 14 Oct 94 16:10:53 PDT Received: from auckland.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29428; Fri, 14 Oct 94 10:44:49 PDT Received: by auckland.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA20395; Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:41:43 +0800 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:41:43 +0800 From: Ross.Finlayson@Eng.Sun.COM (Ross Finlayson) Message-Id: <9410141741.AA20395@auckland.Eng.Sun.COM> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: broadcast agenda Reply-To: finlayson@Eng.Sun.COM X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1148 >I think the real discussion here should be about protocol. There is >nothing about the protocol that sd is based on (I haven't seen the code so >I might be wrong, but I'd be surprised) that necessarily pre-empts porting >away from UNIX/X. I think the original message from Ross Finlayson >(correct me if I'm incorrect) might have had a completely different >motivation: > >> I like the idea of leveraging off "sd". "sd" entries (if posted early >> enough) contain enough information to enable someone to detect potential >> conflicts. > >He mignt not have been referring to that application in particular, but >just the basic session directory protocol or interface ideas. Taken in >that light, and in light of the efforts by most computer vendors >(including Apple and Microsoft) to include multicast in their respective >networking interfaces, the concept of a multicast-based protocol for >scheduling sessions has some validity. Yes, you got it right. When I talked about "leveraging off sd" (& I should point out that I wasn't the first to mention this), I was referring to the "sd" *protocol*, not the Unix application. Ross. From rem-conf-request@es.net Sat Oct 15 19:17:11 1994 Received: from venera.isi.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <28409-0@osi-west.es.net>; Sat, 15 Oct 1994 16:16:35 +0000 Received: from xfr.isi.edu by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-18) id ; Sat, 15 Oct 1994 16:16:31 -0700 Posted-Date: Sat 15 Oct 94 16:15:23 PDT Received: by xfr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4) id ; Sat, 15 Oct 94 16:15:24 PDT Date: Sat 15 Oct 94 16:15:23 PDT From: Stephen Casner Subject: MM'94 MBone schedule To: Casner@ISI.EDU Message-Id: <782262923.0.CASNER@XFR.ISI.EDU> Mail-System-Version: [This note Bcc'd to rem-conf so replies come back only to me.] ACM Multimedia '94 Conference will be held October 18-20 in San Francsico. See http://george.lbl.gov/MM94/MM94.html for the full conference program. One channel of audio and video will be multicast over the MBone in a program that includes some of the technical sessions plus some MBone demonstrations in which I hope you, the remote audience, will participate both to see some things I think you'll find interesting and to help us demonstrate to the local audience how much fun the MBone is. Please see the request for volunteers at the end of this message. Multicast schedule, with times in PDT (and UTC/GMT) =================================================== Tuesday, 18 Oct 94 9:15-10:00 (1615-1700) Opening of Multimedia '94, Word from the Program Chair, Prize Paper Award 10:00-11:30 (1700-1830) Opening Plenary Panel Multimedia: Evolution of a New Industry? 11:30-1:30 (1830-2030) Lunch break 1:30-3:00 (2030-2200) Panel P1, Multimedia Databases and Information Systems 3:30-5:00 (2230-0000) Panel P2, Collaborative Multimedia: Getting Beyond the Obvious Wednesday, 19 Oct 94 12:20-6:00 (1920-0100) Demonstration Program (hourly) Distributed Music Synchronization at :20 MBone and Integrated Services at :40 (see details below) Thursday, 20 Oct 94 9:20-12:30 (1620-1930) Demonstration Program Distr. Music Sync at 9:20, 10:20, 12:00* MBone and Int-Serv at 9:40, 11:00*, 12:20 (* featured presentations of these demos) 1:30-2:30 (2030-2130) Presentation of Best Papers 2:40-4:00 (2140-2300) Closing Plenary Session - Presentation Technology Standards for Multimedia: Production and reproductin as intended by the director 4:00-4:15 (2300-2315) Wrap-up and comments by the Conference Chair of Multimedia '95 Demonstration Program ===================== There will be 12 different demonstrations shown locally at the conference. Two of them involve IP multicast and the MBone tools and will be multicast to the remote audience as well. 1. Distributed Music Synchronization: A Haydn trio will be performed by two live performers and a tape recorder all in different locations (local and in Boston). The Synchronization Protocol developed by Julio Escobar and others at BBN will synchronize the three streams for the audience to hear. The plan, not yet proven, is to multicast the resulting mixed stream out to the MBone. 2. MBone and Integrated Services: The first part of this demo will show the MBone audio and video tools in action, primarily for the benefit of the local audience but involving the remote audience as participants. The second part of this demo will use the RSVP resource reservation protocol and traffic control to provide low delay, low-loss audio and video transmission even when there is competing traffic. These functions are implemented in the DARTnet testbed network, which is one network in the MBone. The demo machines at MM'94 will be connected to DARTnet and will participate in a teleconference with other DARTnet sites across the country. The signal will be clear with reservations but badly broken up without. Again, the plan is to retransmit the resulting signal out to the MBone. Assuming a good path across the rest of the MBone, remote listeners should be able to observe the same results as the local audience. Volunteers ========== For each of the MBone demonstration time slots, I would like to have some remote participants upon whom I can call to say hello and state where they are located, and to show some video if possible. I did get a few volunteers in response to my preliminary announcement five weeks ago, but I would like to have more. In particular, I need more folks >from the US or Pacific Rim who would be available in the mid-afternoon on Wednesday when the Europeans are asleep. UTC/GMT 1940 2040 2140 2240 2340 0040 1640 1800 1920 Wednesday 19-Oct-94 | Thursday 20-Oct-94 PDT 12:40 1:40 2:40 3:40 4:40 5:40 | 9:40 11:00 12:20 Your name x x x x x x x x x Please send a reply with 'x' marking the slots during which you could participate. I plan to divide up the time so that no one person is overburdened, though all are welcome to join in for as much of the time as they like. Thanks in advance. Steve Casner, USC/ISI (Please note that these demos will be the work of many people, not just me.) ------- From rem-conf-request@es.net Sat Oct 15 22:40:34 1994 Received: from lhc.nlm.nih.gov by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <28848-0@osi-west.es.net>; Sat, 15 Oct 1994 19:39:50 +0000 Received: from billings.csb (billings.nlm.nih.gov) by nlm.nih.gov (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA05725; Sat, 15 Oct 94 22:39:46 EDT Received: by billings.csb (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA01207; Sat, 15 Oct 1994 22:40:54 +0500 Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 22:40:54 +0500 From: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.) Message-Id: <9410160240.AA01207@billings.csb> To: mbone@isi.edu, rem-conf@es.net Subject: Multicasting agenda for 2nd INt. WWW Conf. (Chicago) Content-Length: 7973 Dear mbone and rem-conf list members, I append a formatted version of the multicasting agenda for the Second International World-Wide Web Conference in Chicago. The Tutorial Day on Monday the 17th will not be multicasted (we will be setting up and testing on that day). This agenda and the full agenda are also available via the Conference Web page: http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SDG/IT94/IT94Info.html another URL which may be of interest to some of the people on these lists, but which we are not actively advertising to the world at large, points to a collection of HTML documents dealing with the multicasting procedures we hope to follow. This may be of help to others contemplating a multicast. Our thanks to Steve Casner and the folks at the ACM for their splendid cooperation throughout. Each conference will be receiving and projecting multicasting activities from the other. We will be actively encouraging questions from remote participants during the question periods. Hope to be hearing from some of you... Cheerio, Rick Rodgers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WWW Fall 94 -- Multicasting Agenda ==================================== On the dates 18-20 October, inclusive, live video and audio of selected sessions will be transmitted over the internet using the Multicasting backBONE (MBONE). MBONE also allows questions to be received from remote participants. MBONE etiquette limits us to multicasting only one session at any one time. This agenda lists only those sessions that are being multicasted; you can also retrieve the full agenda. The session listings are accompanied by both the local (Chicago) time and the associated Universal Time Coordinated (UTC, which, for purposes of this conference, is equivalent to Greenwich Mean Time, or GMT). If you do not have access to MBONE at your facility, consider participating in the conference at one of the remote conference sites where the multicast video will be projected, and two-way audio conferencing supported. Please read the detailed instructions about how to set up MBONE at your site, or to attend one of the remote conference sites. Tuesday, October 18 Conference, Day 1 o Plenary Session ( MULTICAST SESSION: 13:30 - 15:00 UTC) Location: Great Hall, 2nd Floor 8:30 a.m. - 10:00 a.m. o 8:30a.m. - 8:45 a.m. Welcome - Joseph Hardin, NCSA o 8:45 a.m. - 9:30 a.m. Paul Evan Peters, Coalition for Network Information o 9:30 a.m. - 10:00 a.m. Tim Berners-Lee, MIT o SESSION 1: 10:15 - 11:45 o PUBLISHING ( MULTICAST SESSION: 15:15 - 16:45 UTC) Location: Gold Chair: Stuart Weibel 1. Network Publishing: The Center of the Web (Tim Krauskopf) 2. An Architecture for Scholarly Publishing on the World Wide Web (Stuart Weibel, Eric Miller, Jean Godby) 3. Drop-in Publishing with the World Wide Web (Jim Davis, Carl Lagoze) 4. Adventures in Publishing (Dale Dougherty) o SESSION 2: 2:15 - 3:45 o ASTRONOMY ( MULTICAST SESSION: 19:15 - 20:45 UTC) Location: Grant Park, 3rd Floor Chair: Jim Fullton 1. How to Present Lots of Volatile Information on the World Wide Web (Donald Jennings, Peter Damon, Maia Good, Ryszard Pisarski) 2. The Web in Astronomy and Related Space Sciences (Daniel Egret, Andr Heck) 3. Electronic Publication and Data Distribution for the Star Formation Group in the Five College Astronomy Department (Karen M. Strom) 4. Implementation of Astrophysics Tools on the Web (Alan Richmond) o SESSION 3: 4:00 - 5:30 o COMMERCIAL TRANSACTIONS ON THE WWW (Panel) ( MULTICAST SESSION: 21:00 - 22:30 UTC) Location: Great Hall, 2nd Floor Chair: Allan Schiffman Brian Boesch (CyberCash) on CyberCash David Chaum (CWI) on DigiCash Dave Kristol (AT&T) on Getting Paid on the Web Clifford Newman (ISI) on NetCash Marvin Sirbu (CMU) on NetBill Doug Tygar (CMU) on Dyad Wednesday, 19 October Conference, Day 2 o Plenary Session ( MULTICAST SESSION: 13:30 - 15:00 UTC) Location: Great Hall, 2nd Floor 8:30 a.m. - 10:00 a.m. o 8:30a.m. - 8:45 a.m. Welcome - Joseph Hardin, NCSA o 8:45 a.m. - 9:20 a.m. Ira Goldstein, OSFRI o 9:20 a.m. - 10:00 a.m. David Chaum, Digicash o SESSION 1: 10:15 - 11:45 o COMPUTER SUPPORTED COOPERATIVE WORK (CSCW) ( MULTICAST SESSION: 15:15 - 16:45 UTC) Location: Plaza, 2nd Floor Chair: Terry Weymouth 1. A Synchronous Collaboration Tool for WWW (Michael Rees, Tak Woo) 2. Using Mosaic for Remote Electron Beam Test System Control: A Case Study on Distributed Engineering (Ronald Scharf, Werner Wolz) 3. Beyond the Web: Teleoperation Via Mosaic (Ken Goldberg) 4. Collaborative Viewing of Scientific Data: The UARC Project (Terry E. Weymouth) o SESSION 2: 2:15 - 3:45 o K-12 EDUCATION ( MULTICAST SESSION: 19:15 - 20:45 UTC) Location: Plaza, 2nd Floor Chair: Lisa Bievenue 1. Developing a Frog Dissection Kit for K-12 Education (David W. Robertson, William E. Johnston, Dennis Herriford, Craig Logan, Wing Nip, Lynne Ottoson, Keshea Williams) 2. Designing a Server for a K-8 School (Bonnie Thurber, Bob Davis) 3. Organizing Information in Mosaic: A Classroom Experiment (Robert Wray) 4. K12 (School) Uses of the Web (Ray Mason, Craig Milo Rogers, Suzanne Woolf) 5. An Effective Environmental Studies Curriculum for K-12 (Michael Keeler, Gonzaga) 6. Student Multimedia Publishing on the Internet: Patch Am H.S. Home Page (Pat Ridge) o SESSION 3: 4:00 - 5:30 o SECURITY ON THE WEB: WWW Security: The Big Picture (Panel) ( MULTICAST SESSION: 21:00 - 22:30 UTC) Location: Great Hall, 2nd Floor Chair: Allan Schiffman Kevin Altis (Intel) on Proxies Peter Churchyard (TIS) on Host Security and Firewalls Jeff Hostetler (Spyglass) on Open Security Architectures Allan Schiffman (EIT) on Secure HTTP Phillip Hallam-Baker (CERN) on Shen Thursday, 20 October Developers Day o SESSION 1: 8:30 - 10:00 o HTML and SGML: A Technical Presentation ( MULTICAST SESSION: 13:30 - 15:00 UTC) Location: Gold, 2nd Floor Chair: Tim Berners-Lee 1. Eric Sink, Spyglass, Inc. 2. Terry Allen, O'Reilly and Associates 3. Haakon Lie, CERN o SESSION 2: 10:15 - 11:45 o CERN-MIT-NCSA: CURRENT COORDINATION AND FUTURE DIRECTIONS ( MULTICAST SESSION: 15:15 - 16:45 UTC) Location: Gold, 2nd Floor 1. Tim Berners-Lee, MIT 2. Joseph Hardin, NCSA 3. Robert Cailliau, CERN o SESSION 3: 1:00 - 2:30 o WEB PROGRAMMING INTERFACES ( MULTICAST SESSION: 18:00 - 19:30 UTC) Location: Gold, 2nd Floor Chair: Dave Thompson 1. An API to Mosaic (Guy Singh) 2. Towards a Uniform Library of Common Code: A Presentation of the World Wide Web Library (Henrik Frystyk) 3. NCSA Mosaic CCI (Dave Thompson) 4. Recent Developments in URI Implementations (Jim Fullton, Kevin Gamiel) o SESSION 4: 2:45 - 4:15 o ASK THE MOSAIC DEVELOPERS ( MULTICAST SESSION: 19:45 - 21:15 UTC) Location: Gold, 2nd Floor Chair: Terry McLaren 1. Tom Redman, Briand Sanderson, and Dave Thompson of NCSA 2. Scott Piette, Jim Siedman, and Eric Sink of Spyglass, Inc. NCSA - Mosaic and the Web Conference - October 1, 1994 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Oct 16 07:20:13 1994 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <00870-0@osi-west.es.net>; Sun, 16 Oct 1994 04:19:33 +0000 Received: from waffle.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Sun, 16 Oct 1994 12:19:13 +0100 To: Michael Macedonia cc: "Todd L. Montgomery" , Brian Whetten , Lutz Henckel , rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Reliability and Mbone latency In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Oct 94 12:57:39." Date: Sun, 16 Oct 94 12:19:11 +0100 Message-ID: <1656.782306351@cs.ucl.ac.uk> From: Jon Crowcroft >Also, does anyone have a collection of _any_ data on the mbone that I >use? Mike i believe ian wakeman and thierry turletti did quite a few measurements when sorting out the congestion avoidance sacheme in IVS (c.f. paper in sigcomm94...) - the paper doesn't haev a lot in, but they had figures - also, jean bolot had some internet perf numbers the year before, and may have mbone specifics... another group are the NTP people, who were considuering using multicast to disseminate unsolicited hi-stratum clock messages, but foiund the current mrouted impleemntations introduced too much delay variance.... namecheck piete brookes at cambridge computer labs, maybe? ian/thierry or piete are you listening? jon From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Oct 16 22:34:40 1994 Received: from 168.188.1.1 by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <02969-0@osi-west.es.net>; Sun, 16 Oct 1994 19:33:39 +0000 Received: from comsun.chungnam.ac.kr (comsun.chungnam.ac.kr [168.188.43.2]) by baekma.chungnam.ac.kr (8.6.9H1/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA28092; Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:31:37 +0900 Posted-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:31:37 +0900 Received: from [168.188.42.2] (ghil.chungnam.ac.kr) by comsun.chungnam.ac.kr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03465; Sat, 15 Oct 94 21:20:09+090 Message-Id: <9410151220.AA03465@comsun.chungnam.ac.kr> X-Sender: dykim@168.188.43.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 21:25:24 +0900 To: Garrett Wollman From: dykim@comsun.chungnam.ac.kr (Dae Young KIM) Subject: Re: Conferencing programs, sources, and FreeBSD 2.0 Cc: rem-conf@es.net >I recently went through the exercise of trying to put some interesting >multimedia/conferencing software for the FreeBSD `ports' collection. >(Aside: `ports' is a collection of software that the FreeBSD >developers think may be of interest to our users. These are >distributed as source patches to our -current users, and as binaries >on our FTP site and on the Walnut Creek CD.) Unfortunately, the only >program of the ones I know about for which I was able to find the >source was `nv'. (Congratulations are in order for Ron; all I needed >to do to make it work was change the Makefile a little bit.) > >So, if you are an author of multimedia/conferencing software and would >like to see it made available to thousands of FreeBSD users around the >world, please get in touch with me, and either tell me where I can FTP >your source code, or give me a password file line so you can compile a >version of your program on my machine. The deadline for our 2.0 >release is the end of this month. > >Thanks. > >-GAWollman > >-- >Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... >wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. >Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people >MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant So, you mean conferencing s/w for X? I've been through two years of conferencing s/w on Windows 3.1 on 486, and if anybody should be interested, I can make the binary available on my ftp server. Short description: Software: - Multicast by use of NETBIOS/UDP/IP (not pure multicast IP) - Common space (wb) with text and colored pen/mouse input overlay - Private space - Chatting - File transfer - Extensive conference control buttons/actions including Convene, Close, Break, Resume, Join, Leave Vote, Token(for wb and speak) give/please/fetch, etc. - Moving Conference Control Panel - Multiple conferee faces on the screen - You can have as many participants as the net traffic permits you. - There's no server. All distributed, multicast. - Only one conferee with Token can speak. - Only one person can WRITE on the white board and SPEAK. So, there's no sound mixing taking place anywhere. Theoretically, the two tokens can be separated. Yet, our token is for WRITE and SPEAK both currently. Platform: - 486 with Windows 3.1k (k means Korean customized) - Sound Blaster, Video Blaster - Integrated Earphone/Mike (as Modonna has around her face) - CCD camera with a buil-in mike ($400) - Colored pen as well as mouse input Status: - Developed on 386 with Windows 3.1 - Porting onto 486 with Korean Windows 3.1k - Tolerable (or to put up with? No, not that bad, I'd assure you) speech - Each conferee face refreshed appr. once per 3 seconds - Tested on a Ethernet with four PCs - Not tested over a router yet. Planned for end of this year Future plan: - Change-over to Chicago (Windows 95); it is to support multicast IP!? If not, we'll either keep using UDP multicast or will try to code mIP ourselves. - Above change-over means Windows Socket I/F - OLE 2.0 for both Common and Private Spaces - Considering to converge our propriatory techniques to MBONE protocols. This means about to say we are going to build PC MBONE clients. Conditions for disclosuere: - Not for commercial use - Only binary first. Never thought of the consequences of source disclosure. - No too much complaint on the stability. We're still on it. Further info: - If you're in Korea or have representative in Korea, you can see our demo in the following two shows: - Windows World II ;KOEX, Seoul, 11/8/94 - 11/12/94 - ION '94 ;Lotte Hotel, Seoul, 11/23/94 - 11/25/94 - Ready to show up in any shows abroad if invited. Regards, Dae Young -- Dae Young KIM, Prof. | Phone: +82-42-821-6862 InfoCom Eng. Dept. | Fax: +82-42-823-5436 Chungnam Nat. Univ. | Email: dykim@comsun.chungnam.ac.kr Daejeon 305-764 South Korea From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 17 04:42:59 1994 Received: from milou.inria.fr by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <04553-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 17 Oct 1994 01:42:21 +0000 Received: by milou.inria.fr (5.65c8/IDA-1.2.8) id AA17059; Mon, 17 Oct 1994 09:44:27 +0100 Message-Id: <199410170844.AA17059@milou.inria.fr> To: Michael Macedonia Cc: Jon Crowcroft , "Todd L. Montgomery" , Brian Whetten , Lutz Henckel , rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Reliability and Mbone latency In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 16 Oct 1994 12:19:11 +0100. <1656.782306351@cs.ucl.ac.uk> Reply-To: Thierry.Turletti@sophia.inria.fr Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 09:44:26 +0100 From: Thierry Turletti > >Also, does anyone have a collection of _any_ data on the mbone that I > >use? > Mike > i believe ian wakeman and thierry turletti did quite a few > measurements when sorting out the congestion avoidance sacheme in IVS > (c.f. paper in sigcomm94...) - the paper doesn't haev a lot in, but > they had figures - also, jean bolot had some internet perf numbers the > year before, and may have mbone specifics... > ian/thierry or piete are you listening? > jon Mike, Yes, I've a couple of measurements done last year to demonstrate the impact of the video congestion avoidance scheme implemented in ivs. You should look at the two following papers to see if you're interesting in getting the data files. BTW, it is very easy to get more loss statistics using the -stat option of ivs. J-C. Bolot, T. Turletti, `` A rate control for packet video in the Internet'', Proc. IEEE INFOCOM '94, Toronto, pp. 1216-1223. J-C. Bolot, T. Turletti, I. Wakeman, ``Scalable feedback control for multicast video distribution in the Internet'', Proc. ACM/SIGCOMM'94, Vol. 24, No 4, October 1994, pp. 58-67. Regards, Thierry From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 17 13:59:23 1994 Received: from imicilea.cilea.it by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <07689-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:58:49 +0000 Received: from [131.175.1.95] by IMICILEA.CILEA.IT (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Mon, 17 Oct 94 18:54:00 MET X-Sender: calegari@imicilea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:58:49 +0200 To: rem-conf@es.net From: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari) Subject: MBone Agenda: automated WWW page Cc: guglielm@imicilea.cilea.it Hi everybody, I've prepared a small automated WWW pages set that can be used to navigate the dangerous sea of mbone sessions. It is less nice then George Michaelson pages but it works without human effort: you can book your own mbone session and it will tell you if it clashes with any other session. At this point you can choose between giving up or force the (over)booking. In this case, it will be up to you to contact the other session people (and rem-conf of course). It is almost empty, at the moment, because I missed the discussion about the upcoming "big clash". I will make an effort to keep it up to date from now on and distribute it on rem-conf. The URL is: http://www.cilea.it/MBone/agenda.html Any (constructive) criticism will be welcome: please let me know what you think about it. Cheerio antonio ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Antonio Calegari CILEA - Segrate - Milan tel. : +39 (0)2 26995 257 Interuniversity Computing Centre email: calegari@icil64.cilea.it ITALY From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 17 14:44:08 1994 Received: from geneva.crew.umich.edu by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <08347-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 17 Oct 1994 11:43:34 +0000 Received: from localhost by crew.umich.edu (8.6.4/2.2) id OAA04872; Mon, 17 Oct 1994 14:43:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 14:43:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Stacey Donahue To: rem-conf@es.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII unsubscribe stacey donahue From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 17 18:33:32 1994 Received: from brolga.cc.uq.oz.au by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <10443-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:32:45 +0000 Received: from brolga.cc.uq.oz.au by brolga.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:32:23 +1000 To: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari) cc: rem-conf@es.net, guglielm@imicilea.cilea.it Subject: Re: MBone Agenda: automated WWW page In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:58:49 +0200." <9410172111.AA05880@wraith.internode.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:32:20 +1000 Message-ID: <12051.782433140@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au> From: George Michaelson I like automation. I like it MUCH better than continuing ad-hoc my own stuff which will never (in all probability) transit from experimental to workable and maintained. I'll happily turn my stuff off if people get on board something like Antonio's WWW pages. I suggest somebody US mainland hosted either mirrors the pages or runs a master, to ensure reachability in timely fashion Internet-wide, or is the .it link reliable enough to leave this hosted in Europe? -George From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 17 20:03:53 1994 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <11129-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 17 Oct 1994 17:03:10 +0000 Received: from hobo.corp.portal.com (hobo.online.portal.com [156.151.5.5]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.7/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA24916 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 1994 17:03:02 -0700 From: Theodore_Marvin_Watt@cup.portal.com Received: from localhost (pccop@localhost) by hobo.corp.portal.com (8.6.4/1.71) id RAA10336 for rem-conf@es.net; Mon, 17 Oct 1994 17:03:01 -0700 To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: unsubscribe Lines: 0 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 17:03:00 PDT Message-ID: <9410171703.1.9579@cup.portal.com> X-Origin: The Portal System (TM) From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 18 05:48:31 1994 Received: from imicilea.cilea.it by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <14157-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 18 Oct 1994 02:47:52 +0000 Received: from [131.175.1.95] by IMICILEA.CILEA.IT (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 18 Oct 94 10:42:59 MET X-Sender: calegari@imicilea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 11:47:48 +0200 To: George Michaelson From: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari) Subject: RE: MBone Agenda: automated WWW page Cc: rem-conf@es.net >George Michaelson: >I suggest somebody US mainland hosted either mirrors the pages or >runs a master, to ensure reachability in timely fashion Internet-wide, >or is the .it link reliable enough to leave this hosted in Europe? > I think the US-IT link is reliable enough. Speed limitations shouldn't be a problem in this case. At any rate, if link or dramatic speed problems should arise, I have no prejudice in mirroring the site. antonio ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Antonio Calegari CILEA - Segrate - Milan tel. : +39 (0)2 26995 257 Interuniversity Computing Centre email: calegari@icil64.cilea.it ITALY From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 18 09:19:10 1994 Received: from swan.cl.cam.ac.uk by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <14952-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 18 Oct 1994 06:18:31 +0000 Received: from ouse.cl.cam.ac.uk (user pb (rfc931)) by swan.cl.cam.ac.uk with SMTP (PP-6.5) to cl; Tue, 18 Oct 1994 14:17:39 +0100 To: rem-conf@es.net, mbone@ISI.EDU cc: Piete.Brooks@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Mbone transmission 94/10/19 15:15-16:15 UTC (cl.cam.ac.uk Security ... Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 13:46:02 +0100 From: Piete Brooks Message-ID: <"swan.cl.cam.:252530:941018124628"@cl.cam.ac.uk> We plan to transmit the audio of this week's seminar with a TTL of 135, as one UK attendee is the far side of a link with a TTL of 128. Would anyone outside the JIPS (ac.uk) MBone want the audio TTL further raised, or have the video raised to a similar level ? [ The video will be of the speaker -- the slides will be provided as HTML, PS and DVI. I'm not going to do wb this time, nor an nv of the wb session ] SECURITY SEMINAR SPEAKER Ross Anderson, Computer Laboratory DATE Wednesday 19th October 1994 at 4.15pm [ 15:15 UTC ] PLACE Babbage Lecture Theatre TITLE ROBUST COMPUTER SECURITY The relationship between security and reliability is not straightforward. On the one hand, a secure system does at most X, while a reliable system does at least X; so the two concepts seem in tension. On the other hand, recent experience investigating the failure modes of automatic teller machines, satellite TV encoders, prepayment electricity meters and burglar alarms has shown that almost all real world security failures are in fact reliability failures - they result from blunders in implementation and management. After describing some of this experience, I will discuss a robustness principle which has been derived from it, and which has proved itself useful in guiding security research. This seminar will be multicast (audio and video) on the mbone as part of our multimedia test programme. Further information is available at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/mbone/#cl. From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 18 10:25:57 1994 Received: from POSTOFFICE3.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service id <15396-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 18 Oct 1994 07:25:17 +0000 Received: from [132.236.199.117] (SWB.CIT.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.199.117]) by postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA09197; Tue, 18 Oct 1994 10:24:51 -0400 X-Sender: swb1@postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 10:24:55 -0400 To: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari) From: Scott W Brim Subject: Re: MBone Agenda: automated WWW page Cc: rem-conf@es.net, guglielm@imicilea.cilea.it fyi the Mac clients disagree on how to format

within 

.
Netscape apparently ignores them; Mosaic and MacWeb begin new
paragraphs.

...Scott



From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 18 11:15:53 1994 
Received: from imicilea.cilea.it by osi-west.es.net via ESnet SMTP service 
          id <15808-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:15:02 +0000
Received: from [131.175.1.95] by IMICILEA.CILEA.IT (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;
          Tue, 18 Oct 94 16:10:07 MET
X-Sender: calegari@imicilea
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:14:57 +0200
To: Scott W Brim 
From: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari)
Subject: Re: MBone Agenda: automated WWW page
Cc: rem-conf@es.net

>fyi the Mac clients disagree on how to format 
 within 
.
>Netscape apparently ignores them; Mosaic and MacWeb begin new
>paragraphs.
>
>...Scott

I've realized. I'll try to fix it ASAP .

Thank you

- Antonio



From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 18 12:58:30 1994 
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          id <16826-0@osi-west.es.net>; Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:57:14 +0000
Received: from galaxy.nswc.navy.mil by relay2.nswc.navy.mil (4.1/SMI-4.1) 
          id AA05455; Tue, 18 Oct 94 12:57:02 EDT
Received: by galaxy.nswc.navy.mil (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11912;
          Tue, 18 Oct 94 12:57:01 EDT
Message-Id: <9410181657.AA11912@galaxy.nswc.navy.mil>
From: lfreder@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Lamar Frderick - E81)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:57:01 -0400
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: NO mbone
Cc: lfreder@relay.nswc.navy.mil, rhott@relay.nswc.navy.mil

We don't seem to be getting any transmissions to mbone.nswc.navy.mil
Tunnels and feeds up the chain look ok.  Anyone know why?


-- 
                                                                       
=======================================================================
Lamar M. Frederick               DDN mail: lfreder@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Naval Surface Warfare Center     Phone: (703)663-8517
Dahlgren Division                       DSN  249-8517  
Code E81, Networks Branch        Fax: (703)663-1952 
Dahlgren, VA   22448-5000        
=======================================================================

From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 18 16:49:39 1994 
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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 10:52:32 EDT
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From: bill@mtgzfs3.mt.att.com (William Atkins +1 908 957 3878)
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: unsubscribe



From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 19 05:40:46 1994 
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          id <06051-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 19 Oct 1994 02:40:09 +0000
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          Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:38:13 +0900
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Message-Id: <9410190936.AA05640@comsun.chungnam.ac.kr>
X-Sender: dykim@168.188.43.2 (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:41:33 +0900
To: chang@cam.nist.gov (Wo_Chang_x3439)
From: dykim@comsun.chungnam.ac.kr (Dae Young KIM)
Subject: Re: Conferencing programs, sources, and FreeBSD 2.0
Cc: rem-conf@es.net

>Dear Prof. Dae Young,
>
>I'm interested on your conferencing tools.
>How can I get a copy of them?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>--Wo Chang 

Now that somebody might want our binaries, we will try to move our binaries
to our ftp server. It may take time, though, maybe a week. As soon as it is
ready, I'll let you know by a separate mail. In the meanwhile, you may now
and then look into

        comsun.chungnanm.ac.kr/pub/conf

to see whether any file is already there.

Dae Young (This is my first name.)

--
Dae Young KIM, Prof.               | Phone: +82-42-821-6862
InfoCom Eng. Dept.                 | Fax:   +82-42-823-5436
Chungnam Nat. Univ.                | Email: dykim@comsun.chungnam.ac.kr
Daejeon 305-764
South Korea



From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 19 07:07:45 1994 
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          Wed, 19 Oct 94 12:02:08 MET
X-Sender: calegari@imicilea
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:06:58 +0200
To: rem-conf@es.net
From: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari)
Subject: MBone Agenda: first program list !

The MBone Agenda
October 94

  As I promised, here is the first extract of the october 94 programs that
has been entered
  in the last few days in

  http://www.cilea.it/MBone/agenda.html

  THANKS TO ALL SUBMITTERS FOR PROMPT COLLABORATION.

  I propose that this report is distributed on rem-conf every week.
  I also suggest that it contains every record starting from one week before
  the distribution date up to the one month after.


  Soon in the MBone Agenda WWW pages:

  - URLs to help with timezones


Best regards

        antonio calegari

--

 The MBone Agenda
 October '94

------------------------------------------------------------------------

All times are given in GMT.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

18/10 16:00  20/10 24:00       ACM Multimedia 94

Contact: casner@isi.edu - Stephen Casner

------------------------------------------------------------------------

21/10 02:00  21/10 06:00       BayLISA: Larry Wall on PERL

Contact: blw@baylisa.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------

22/10 16:00  22/10 22:00       NPS Discovery Day

Contact: mccann@nps.navy.mil

The annual "open house" for the Naval Postgraduate School. Please join our
session to talk to local school kids.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

28/10 17:00  28/10 22:00       Networked Information and the Scholar

Contact: robelr@indiana.edu, Allen Robel, (812)855-0962

Speakers: Michael Roberts (EDUCOM), Clifford Lynch (U. Calif), Kathy Krendal
(IU), Paul Peters (CNI), James J. O'Donnell (U Penn.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------



From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 19 08:19:56 1994 
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From: Mark Handley 
Organisation: University College London, CS Dept.
Phone: +44 71 380 7777 ext 3666
To: George Michaelson 
cc: finlayson@Eng.Sun.COM, rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Re: broadcast agenda
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Oct 94 09:49:13 +0900." <16205.782005753@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au>
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 13:18:22 +0100
Message-ID: <618.782569102@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Sender: M.Handley@cs.ucl.ac.uk


>Resolving conflicts needs stuff outside of the scope of SD like an MBONE
>diary or some kind of (sorry) centrally coordinated process, be it rem-conf
>or a booking office.
>
>Isn't this what MMusic and CCCP should aim to address?

Yes, this should be a goal of MMusic.  CCCP definitely could be used
to address this, though it's likely that such a solution would be
a distributed one.

I don't really see why a centrally coordinated process is necessary
here.  I believe that such a protocol should aim to alert people to
the problem, and let them choose a time when there's no booking, but
when there is a conflict, it has to be down to the people involved to
resolve it.

An extension to sd to communicate events a long time in advance, but
not show them as current events in the main window would go some way
to solving the problem.  You could then pop up a back window to list
future events that your sd has heard of.

However, sd's protocol is not really appropriate here as your sd has
to be active to make announcements.  What is really required is a
distributed "database" protocol, similar to those used in wb and nt,
where data is persistent even though its creator is no longer running.

Mark

From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 19 09:44:05 1994 
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Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 09:40:00 -0400
X400-Originator: /dd.id=1683874/g=xing/i=x/s=chen/@bnr.ca
X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars735.b.717:19.09.94.13.41.20]
X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2)
Content-Identifier: RMP document ...
From: "xing (x.) chen" 
Sender: "xing (x.) chen" 
Message-ID: <"22719 Wed Oct 19 09:41:23 1994"@bnr.ca>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: RMP document wanted

Hi,

I am new on this list. I knew there was a discussion about RMP (Reliable
Multicast Protocol). I would appreciate it if someone could help me to find
the RMP document (an ftp site would be fine).

Thanks,

Chen

----------------------------------------------------------
Xing Chen
Bell-Northern Research			Tel.:(613)763-7011
P.O. Box 3511, Station C		Fax.:(613)763-9406
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1Y 4H7		Email:xchen@bnr.ca
----------------------------------------------------------


From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 19 17:56:25 1994 
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          id <10162-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 19 Oct 1994 14:55:58 +0000
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Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:55:50 -0400
From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" 
Message-Id: <199410192155.AA12757@toto.cs.umbc.edu>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Cc: sherman@cs.umbc.edu, finin@cs.umbc.edu, jack@cs.umbc.edu
Subject: Request for broadcast slot


We would like to request a 2.5 hour time slot to broadcast the
following two cryptologic lectures taped live at UMBC:

   Perspectives in Communications Security
   Jack Ingram, Curator, National Cryptologic Museum
   1 hour

   The Clipper Chip
   Dorothy Denning, Georgetown University
   1 hour 15 minutes

We propose the following two times (back-to-back double feature):

   1pm-2pm Monday Oct 31
   2pm-3:15pm Monday Oct 31

If anyone has any objections to these proposed times, please
send email to sherman@cs.umbc.edu

From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 19 18:05:22 1994 
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          id <10259-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:04:55 +0000
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          id SAA18502 for rem-conf@es.net; Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:08:56 -0400
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:08:56 -0400
From: Carl Malamud 
Message-Id: <199410192208.SAA18502@trystero.radio.com>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: White House Announcement
Org: Internet Multicasting Service

Vice President Gore is making a brief announcement on Thursday, 
October 20, at approximately 11:30 AM.  We will multicast the
announcement as audio and video but will scale the ttl back
or cut the video if we notice any interference with existing
activities.

Sorry for the late announcement.  While "real" press were notified
through formal channels, we were just recently notified that the
presence of the Internet was a required activity.  Some symbolic
purpose or something.  :-)

From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 19 22:51:04 1994 
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          id <11967-0@osi-west.es.net>; Wed, 19 Oct 1994 19:50:31 +0000
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          id AA13176; Wed, 19 Oct 1994 22:50:19 -0400
Message-Id: <9410200250.AA13176@pele.psc.edu>
To: mbone@isi.edu
Cc: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: mbone/NSFnet migration
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 22:50:18 -0400
From: Matt Mathis 
X-Mts: smtp


Hopefully most of you are aware of the pending massive restructuring of the
U.S. Internet (see footnote (1) below if not).  In a few idle minutes (ha!) I
attempted to extrapolate the existing mbone onto (my limited understanding of)
the brave new North American Internet topology.

First the good news: When everything is done, the existing mbone will match
new topology far better than we deserve to expect, perhaps almost optimal,
needing only a few minor tweaks.  This was a real surprise!

Naturally during the transition, this will not be the case: unless two
regionals connected by a tunnel move to their new National Service Provider at
the same time, the tunnel between them will temporarily pass through an
interconnect (a Network Access Point) between the NSPs.  Since all regionals
are going to be making the transition at different paces, the intermediate
states are likely to be pretty ugly, with possibly a dozen or more tunnels
crossing the NAPs.

It is hard to predict if this will be a problem.  The aggregate bandwidth
through the NAPs will be quite large - hundreds if not thousands of megabits
per second (see 2), so even two dozen copies of the mbone may be ok.  I would
not do anything drastic, such as shutting down the mbone (even temporarily).
However, if there are problems we MUST be prepaired to adjust the mbone's
bandwidth rating.

Now the bad news: the the transition schedule is already slipping, and the
slippage has widened the spread in expected transition dates.  The original
cut off date for the existing NSFnet service was October 31th.  It is being
extended on a month-by-month, peer-by-peer basis.  Most connections have
already been extended to Nov 30, which is less than a week before the
IETF......

The situation is complicated be two other issues: the Internet itself is going
to be rather fragile during the transition.  Although hundreds (thousands?) of
people have been working very hard on it, there is just too much new
technology, infrastructure and hardware for the transition to be totally free
of glitches.  There will be mbone outages that are due to IP failures
unrelated to mbone traffic.   It may be very difficult to tell if the mbone is
contributing any observed instability.

Furthermore, most of the contacts on the mbone provider list are already
working overtime on the Internet transition.  If some regional is having
problems with vanilla IP service, mbone problems will be secondary.

So, what can the research community do to help?  I can think of several things:

o Dust off mbone mapping, instrumentation and diagnostic tools - particularly
	"strip charts" for mbone load and route transitions per hour, so we
	have a "before" baseline, and can correlate route flaps with load.  If
	data storage is a problem let me know, and I can make some
	arrangements.

o Be patient when it is broken, and be aware that the the person who needs to
	fix it may have already been up all night.

o Be gentle with the bandwidth, or it may be discovered that is your bits were
	the "last straw".

o We need to have some administrative mechanism to come to a consensus about
	mbone capacity.  The scheduling tools are a nice idea, but how do you
	know how much BW you have to divide under conflicting reports of
	signal quality.

o Don't start a conversation about the tunneled vs native multicast.  We've
	been there.

I will be posting an updated mbone provider contact list sometime soon.

Sorry about the duplicate posting, but I believe that both the mbone users and
providers need to be aware of what is going on.

--MM--

----------------------------------------
Footnotes:

(1) To make a long story short, the existing NSFnet is a service of one
provider: Merit, with one prime subcontractor: ANS.  NSF is spending a large
sum of money to provide "free" T3 connections to the regionals.

After the transition, the NSF money will flow directly to the regionals (with a
builtin 5 year sunset), who must purchase connectivity from NSF certified
National Service Providers.  The primary requirement to be a NSP is that they
connect to the NSF awarded NAPs, which are for exchanging traffic between
providers.  (Much detail omited....).  In addition there are some Independent
Service Providers, who are selling a la cart connectivity, mostly to
businesses, etc.  They may also connect to the NAP's but unless they meet the
NSP certification, they are ineligible to directly carry NSF funded regionals.
Note that no NSF money goes directly to the NSPs, NAPs, or ISPs.  They get
all of their revenue by charging for their services.

The up-to-date status can be obtained under http://rrdb.merit.edu/home.html.
Note that the intended audience is the service providers, who do not need
introductory explanations.

(2) The aggregate bandwidth available within the NAPs is surely
gigabits/second, but most (all?) NSPs will connect via T3 links to 3 or 4
NAPs for a total usable IP bandwidth of no more than 160 Mbit/s.  I am not
privy to any of the global traffic models, so I can not comment on the
expected load on these links.


From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 20 00:26:13 1994 
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          via ESnet SMTP service id <12375-0@osi-west.es.net>;
          Wed, 19 Oct 1994 21:25:42 +0000
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Message-Id: <199410200425.AAA07452@meteor.ctr.columbia.edu>
To: mbone@isi.edu, rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Multimedia Networking Workshop Announcement
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 00:25:36 -0400
From: Franco Marconcini 


Dear mbone and rem-conf list members,

we are going to propose in multicasting the Workshop on Multimedia 
Networking that will be held at Columbia University on Friday, 
October 28th. 

I appended a formatted version of the agenda of the workshop.
It is also available via the Web page:

   URL http://www.ctr.columbia.edu/Research/comet/mulnet94.html

We hope to be able of offering an other Web page with all the 
proceedings of the workshop: we will announce it as soon as
it will become available.

Please, feel free of sending us any suggestion or comment 
on this initiative.

- Franco 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

       ==========================================

        Columbia Workshop on Telecommunications 

                 MULTIMEDIA NETWORKING 
       ==========================================


         Friday October 28, 1994, New York, NY 

      Symposium Chairperson: Aurel A. Lazar, COMET Group 

Location: The workshop will take place in the auditorium of the 
Schapiro Research Building on the Morning-side Campus of Columbia 
University at 530 West 120th Street, between Amsterdam Avenue
and Broadway. The workshops attendance is limited to 100 participants. 

Sponsors: The workshop is sponsored by the Center for 
Telecommunications Research at Columbia University. 


Program
-------

8:15 am
   Coffee 

8:50-9:00 am 
   Welcoming Remarks: Michael Crow, Vice Provost, Columbia University 

9:00- 9:45 am 
   Multimedia Networking Technologies: A Systems View 
   Speaker: D. Raychaudhuri, NEC USA 

9:45-10:30 am 
   A Binding Architecture for Multimedia Networks 
   Speaker: Aurel A. Lazar, Columbia University 

10:30-11:00 am 
   Break 

11:00-11:45 pm 
   Multimedia Networking: Applications and Challenges 
   Speaker: Inder Gopal, IBM Advanced Network Services 

11:45-12:30 am 
   Internet Support for Multimedia Applications 
   Speaker: Lixia Zhang, Xerox Parc 

12:30-2:00 pm 
   Lunch Break 

2:00-2:45 pm
   End-System Support for a Video-On-Demand Service 
   Speaker: K.K. Ramakrishnan, DEC 

2:45-3:30 pm 
   The Design of a QoS Controlled ATM Based Communications System in Chorus 
   Speaker: Andrew Campbell, Lancaster University and CTR 

3:30-4:00 pm 
   Break 

4:00-5:00pm 
   Panel Discussion: Hardware Independent Signalling 
   Chair: Aurel A. Lazar 
   Panelists: Israel Cidon - Sun Microsystems Laboratories Gita Gopal - Bellcore Roch Guerin -
   IBM T.J.Watson Research Center Tom Laporta - AT&T Bell Laboratories 

5:00-5:10 pm 
   Workshop Closing Remarks 


From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 20 06:53:18 1994 
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          id <14348-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 20 Oct 1994 03:52:42 +0000
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X-Sender: calegari@imicilea
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 12:52:31 +0200
To: rem-conf@es.net
From: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari)
Subject: platforms for mrouted 3.x


Hi,
I know these are obsessing questions, sorry.
We are about to buy a powerful workstation dedicated to MBone and we have
configuration problems with SunOS 4, so:

Does anybody know on which platform I can run mrouted 3.x (except SunOS 4)?

Does anybody know on which platform I can run mrouted 2.x but good kernels
for mrouted 3.x will be available soon?

What about CISCO ?

Thank you very much.

Regards

                Antonio



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Antonio Calegari                        CILEA - Segrate - Milan
tel. : +39 (0)2 26995 257               Interuniversity Computing Centre
email: calegari@icil64.cilea.it         ITALY



From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 20 11:45:11 1994 
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          id <15824-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:44:34 +0000
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          id ; Thu, 20 Oct 1994 16:40:04 +0100
Organisation: University College London, CS Dept.
Phone: +44 71 380 7777 ext 3462 or +44 71 387 7050 ext 3462
Fax: ++44 71 387 1397
To: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
cc: mbone@isi.edu, rem-conf@es.net
Subject: IDMR conf reminder
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 16:39:53 +0100
From: Tony Ballardie 


Just a reminder that the Inter-Domain Multicast working group (IETF)
will be holding 2 x 2 hour sessions Friday 21st and Monday 24th October
at 9:00 PDT (17:00 BST). The sessions are now advertised in "sd".

Friday's session will discuss PIM multicast issues, and Monday's session
will describe CBT multicast.

The audio for both sessions will be recorded and replayed for the benefit
of those in time-zones which prevents them from listening live, and when 
there are no conflicts.

The slides for the PIM discussion are ftp'able from:

	catarina.usc.edu:pub/estrin/pim.idmr.teleconf.ps

The slides for the CBT discussion are ftp'able from:

	cs.ucl.ac.uk:mice/idmr-teleconf/slide#.ps

Finally, for the PIM session I'm told it will be beneficial
to have a colour display.

Tony


From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 20 13:40:22 1994 
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          id <16773-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:39:50 +0000
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          Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:39:27 -0700
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:39:27 -0700
Message-Id: <199410201739.AA14360@zephyr.isi.edu>
From: estrin@usc.edu (Deborah Estrin)
Sender: estrin@ISI.EDU
To: A.Ballardie@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Cc: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk, mbone@ISI.EDU, rem-conf@es.net
In-Reply-To: Tony Ballardie's message of Thu, 20 Oct 94 16:39:53 +0100 <9410201551.AA08121@usc.edu>
Subject: IDMR conf reminder
Reply-To: estrin@usc.edu


I will be using wb during my presentation tomorrow. 

From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 20 13:55:39 1994 
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          id <16933-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:54:57 +0000
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          id AA13957 (5.65c/Gatech-10.0-IDA); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 13:55:52 -0400
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          Thu, 20 Oct 94 14:01:32 EDT
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 14:01:32 EDT
From: ian@armani.gatech.edu (Ian F. Akyildiz)
Message-Id: <9410201801.AA27757@armani.mirc.gatech.edu>
To: cost237-transport@comp.lancs.ac.uk, end2end-interest@isi.edu, 
    f-troup@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, hipparch@sophia.inria.fr, 
    rem-conf-request@es.net, rem-conf@es.net, reres@laas.fr, 
    sigmedia@bellcore.com, xtp-relay@cs.concordia.ca
Subject: Final_PROGRAM

**********************************************************
*         THE NINTH ANNUAL IEEE WORKSHOP ON              *
*                                                        *
*             COMPUTER COMMUNICATIONS                    *
*                                                        *
*     Hawk's Cay Resort, Duck Key, Marathon, Florida     *
*               October 24-26, 1994                      *
*                                                        * 
*                                                        *
*        Sponsored by the IEEE Communications Society    *
*        Technical Committee on Computer Communications  *
**********************************************************

The Ninth IEEE Workshop on Computer Communications  will  be
held  October  24-26,  1994,  at Hawk's Cay Resort, Duck Key,
Marathon, Florida, located within two hours of Miami and one
hour  from  Key  West.  The objective of this workshop is to
foster the exchange of information among researchers in this
fast-moving  field.   The program includes presentations by
distinguished researchers, speaking on  recent  advances  in
theory and practice, with ample time for discussions both between
presentations and at the end of each session. As it is now 
traditional in our workshop, all attendees are encouraged to
participate actively in the discussions, comment on presentations,  
challenge the speakers, and  present  different viewpoints.

Please direct inquiries to:

Ian F. Akyildiz                         Imrich Chlamtac
Workshop Chair                          Workshop Co-Chair
School of ECE                           Department of ECE
Georgia Tech                            UMASS 
Atlanta, GA 30332                       Amherst, MA 01003
Tel.: 404-894-5141                      Tel.: 413-545-0712
Fax.: 404-853-9410                      Fax.: 413-545-4611
E_Mail: ian@armani.gatech.edu           E_Mail: chlamtac@ecs.umass.edu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


                      FINAL PROGRAM 
             
              The Ninth Annual IEEE Workshop on
                  COMPUTER COMMUNICATIONS
       Hawk's Cay Resort, Duck Key, Marathon, Florida
                    October 24-26, 1994


Sunday, October 23, 1994
------------------------

7-9pm    
   Registration: Wine and Cheese Party 


Monday, October 24, 1994
------------------------

8-10am   
Session 1: OPTICAL NETWORKS
Organizer: HISASHI KOBAYASHI, Princeton University.

"A Re-Examination of WDM Networks"
Charles A. Brackett,  Bellcore 

"Wavelength Division Multiplexed Networks
for Local, Metropolitan, and Regional Applications"
Ivan P. Kaminow, AT&T Bell Laboratories

"250 Gbps Packet-Switched Multihop Transparent Optical Networks"
Paul R. Prucnal, Princeton University

"A Bridge for Packet Switched WDM Networks"
Andrea Fumagalli and Imrich Chlamtac, University of Massachusetts

10-10:30am Break

10:30am-12:30pm
Session 2: VIDEO SERVICES AND NETWORKING SUPPORT
Organizer: SIMON S. LAM, University of Texas at Austin

"Video Transport in ATM Networks:  A Systems View"
D. Raychaudhuri, D. Reininger and R. Siracusa, NEC, Princeton, NJ

"Delay Guarantee of Virtual Clock Server"
Geoffrey G. Xie and Simon S. Lam, University of Texas at Austin

"Burst Scheduling: Architecture and Algorithm for Switching VBR Video"
Simon S. Lam and Geoffrey G. Xie, University of Texas at Austin

"A Simulation Study of Rate Based Traffic Management
Scheme for ABR Video Services"
Hemant Kanakia, P. Mishra and Amy Reibman, AT&T Bell Laboratories

12:30-3pm Lunch 

3-6pm 
Session 3:  MOBILE COMPUTING
Organizer:  NACHUM SHACHAM, SRI International

"Using DHCP with Computers that Move"
Charlie Perkins, IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Kevin Luo, Columbia University
 
"A Distributed Control Strategy for Wireless ATM Networks"
Malathi Veeraraghavan, AT&T Bell Laboratories
Thomas LaPorta, AT&T Bell Laboratories

"Multi-Cluster, Multihop Packet Radio Network Architecture for WAMIS 
(Wireless Adaptive Mobile Information System)"
Mario Gerla and Jack T-C. Tsai, Univ. of California, Los Angeles

"Satellite-Augmented Cellular Networks"
Anthony Ephremides, Univ. of Maryland, College Park

"Trusted Multicast Communication for Mobile Computing"
Nachum Shacham and Li Gong, SRI International

4:30-5pm Break 

7pm. Buffet Dinner


Tuesday, October 25, 1994
-------------------------

8-10am   
Session 4:   NETWORK PERFORMANCE
Organizers:  KHOSROW SOHRABY, University of Missouri at Kansas City (UMKC)
             KAZEM SOHRABY, AT&T Bell Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ.

"Distributed Autonomous Wireless Channel Assignment Algorithm 
with Power Control"
G. J. Foschini, Z. Miljanic, AT&T Bell Laboratories

"Blocking and Forced Termination in Pico-Cellular Wireless Networks: 
Asymptotic Analysis"
Khosrow Sohraby, University of Missouri at Kansas City (UMKC).

"Estimation the Rates for Heterogeneous ATM Traffic"
Denis Khotimsky and Alan Konheim, University of California, Santa Barbara 

"Performance of an Access Protocol for a Wireless ATM Local Area Network" 
Mark J. Karol and Kai Eng, AT&T Bell Laboratories
Zhao Liu, Univ. of Pennsylvania

10-10:30am Break

10:30am-12:30pm
Session 5: WIRELESS NETWORKS
Organizer: GORDON STUBER, Georgia Institute of Technology 

"Scalable Support for Transparent Mobile Host Internetworking"
Dave Johnson, Carnegie Mellon University

"Wireless Data: Systems, Standard Applications"
Sanjiv Nanda and Antonio DeSimone, AT&T Bell Laboratories

"Issues for ATM over Wireless"
John Daigle,  University of Mississippi

12:30-3pm Lunch 

3-6pm 
Session 6:  MULTIMEDIA NETWORKING
Organizers: DOMENICO FERRARI, UC Berkeley and ICSI 
            HUI ZHANG, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, (LBL)

"Multimedia Protocols: Where Are We?"
Domenico Ferrari, UC Berkeley and 
International Computer Science Institute (ICSI)

"Partial Order Transport Service: An Analytic Model"
Rahmi Marasli, Paul Amer, Phill Conrad and Greg Burch,
University of Delaware

"Routing Support for Reservation-Based Multimedia Networks"
Deborah Estrin, USC/ISI, Scott Shenker, Xerox PARC; D. Zappala, USC/ISI

"A Hierarchical Multicast Routing Protocol"
Wei Yen and Ian Akyildiz, Georgia Tech

"Application Level Protocol Implementations to Provide 
QoS Guarantees at Endsystems"
R. Gopalakrishnan and Guru Parulkar, Washington University

4:30-5pm Break 

7pm. Buffet Dinner

Wednesday, October 26, 1994
---------------------------

8-10am   
Session 7:  ATM LANs
Organizers: IZHAK RUBIN, Univ. of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) 
            YORAM OFEK, IBM TJ Watson 

"SMARTNET: A High Speed Meshed Ring Opitcal Network"
Izhak Rubin and H.K. Hua, Univ. of California at Los Angeles (UCLA)

"Washington University's Gigabit ATM Desk Area Network"
Zubin D. Dittia, Jerome R. Cox, Jr., and Guru M. Parulkar,
Washington University

"Topological Design of Loss-Free Switch-Based LANs"
Bulent Yener, Columbia Univ., Yoram Ofek and Moti Yung, IBM TJ Watson.

10-10:30am Break

10:30am-1:00pm
Session 8:  TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT IN ATM NETWORKS
Organizers: JOHN DAIGLE, University of Mississippi
            BRAD MAKRUCKI, Bell South, Atlanta

"Traffic Management in ATM Networks"
Brad Makrucki, BellSouth  and John Daigle, University of Mississippi

"Traffic Management in ATM Networks: A Rate-Based Approach"
Michael G. Hluchyj, Summa Four Systems 

"Traffic Management in ATM Networks: A Credit-Based Approach"
Anna Charny, Digital Equipment Corporation 

PANEL DISCUSSION:  QUO VADIS "TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT IN ATM"?  

(The panel will discuss the merits of the approaches in achieving the goals
together with entertaining questions of the audience).

Panel Moderators: John Daigle, University of Mississippi and  Brad Makrucki, BellSouth  

Panel Members:  
Jon Bennett, FORE Systems Inc.
Anna Charny, Digital Equipment Corporation. 
Mike Hluchyj, Summa Four Systems. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------


    1994 IEEE COMPUTER COMMUNICATIONS WORKSHOP REGISTRATION FORM


Name: _______________________________

Company/Affiliation: _________________________________

Address: ____________________________________
    
 
         ____________________________________


Tel.: ____________________

Fax.: ___________________

E_Mail: _________________


___ $90 enclosed (Make check payable to "WORKSHOP'94")

Mail to: Prof. Ian F. Akyildiz
         School of ECE
         Georgia Tech
         Atlanta, GA 30332

         Tel.: (404)-894-5141
         Fax.: (404)-853-9410
         E_Mail.: ian@armani.gatech.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------


        HAWK'S CAY RESORT AND MARINA

            REGISTRATION FORM

                 FOR

  THE 9TH IEEE WORKSHOP ON COMPUTER COMMUNICATIONS

        OCTOBER 23, 1994  - OCTOBER 26, 1994


Arrival Date ...........  Arrival Time .......   Departure Date ......

(List early arrival/late departure dates, if applicable) 

    (GROUP RATES MAY NOT BE AVAILABLE TO EARLY ARRIVALS/LATE DEPARTURES)


NAME .......................     SIGNATURE ...........

COMPANY ...................      PHONE# ..............

ADDRESS ............................................

CITY .............    STATE ........... ZIP .......

CREDIT CARD TYPE (Circle One)     MC	VISA   DISCOVER   DINERS   AMEX

CREDIT CARD# .....................    EXPIRATION DATE .............

NAME ON CARD .....................    SIGNATURE ...................

# OF GUESTS IN ROOM (Ages if Children) ...........................
Children 11 and under are free, extra person charge $25.00 per night.
     For children, 11 and under, to attend group dinners 
     there is a non-refundable $50.00 charge.
     For children 12 and over, full price.

     Will children be attending group dinners? ____ Yes   ____ No
     Number of Children atrending ............. Ages ............

Smoking ................. Non-smoking .........
(Accommodations in each category are limited. We will make every effort 
to honor your request, however, it cannot be guaranteed)


ACCOMMODATIONS    $498.10 per person, based on a single occupancy
                  $320.29 per person, based on double occupancy

Additional nights are available at $105.00 per room, per night, plus
tax single or double occupancy.
Meals except for breakfast, not included in additional night price.
Refunds will not be made on any portion of the IEEE three night package.
A non-refundable meal program for children 4-11 years including two dinners, 
chef's choice, is $50.00 additional.

Check in time is 3:00 pm/Check out time is 11:00am.

INCLUDED IN RATES:

* Three nights accommodations (October 23-25 nights), inclusive of tax
* Lavish Breakfast Buffet on October 24-26, 1994
* Buffet Dinners on October 24 and 25, 1994
* Wine and Cheese Reception, October 23, 1994
* Coffee Breaks during the workshop
* Morning Newspaper
* Transportation to/from Marathon Airport (24 hour notice needed) 
* Nightly Turndown Service
* All gratuities, maid, bellman and breakfast server
* Dolphin training sessions (three times daily)


___ Please check here if you require vegeterian meals at the group dinners. 
    Number of people ___
 


REGSITRATION FORMS MUST BE COMPLETED AND RETURNED TO:

Reservations Department            OR FAX TO: Reservations Department
Hawk's Cay Resort and Marina                  (305) 743-5215
Mile Marker 61, Duck Key
Marathon, FL 33050

1-(800)-432-2242



   COMPLETE ONE FORM FOR EACH ROOM NEEDED - A CONFIRMATION WILL BE MAILED
   ENTIRE PACKAGE PRICE WILL AUTOMATICALLY BE CHARGED TO YOUR CREDIT CARD
   CANCELLATION POLICY IS THIRTY DAYS PRIOR TO ARRIVAL
   CANCELLATION WITHIN THIRTY DAYS WILL RESULT IN FORFEITURE OF DEPOSIT.

   ** RESERVATIONS MUST BE RECEIVED BY SEPTEMBER 15, 1994 TO GUARANTEE YOUR ROOM **
   ** AND TO GUARANTEE THE GROUP RATE FOR YOUR ROOM**
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



     HAWK'S CAY RESORT AND MARINA
      
     Duck Key, Marathon, Florida.


GROUND TRANSPORTATION
---------------------

Rental Cars:
-----------

Budget Rent a Car          Avis Rent a Car            General Rent a Car 
Marathon Airport, FL       Marathon Airport, FL       Marathon, FL 
305-743-3998               305-743-5428               800-327-7607
800-527-0700               305-377-2531 (Miami)


Motor Coach
-----------
A-1 Bus lines           Miami Bus & Limo     American Meetings and Conventions 
Miami, FL               Miami, FL            Miami Lakes, FL 
305-325-1000            305-633-3377         305-621-4181
800-826-6754


Go Tours                Grayline Bus Company 
Marathon, FL            Miami, FL 
305-743-9876            305-587-8080


Car Services
------------

Ambassador Limo Service      Island Taxi           Paradise to Reality & Back 
Miami, FL                    Marathon, FL          Miami, FL 
305-931-3111                 305-743-6004          305-852-4656
800-245-4667



Miami Airport to Hawk's Cay Resort and Marina
---------------------------------------------

Miami International Airport to 836 West until you reach the Florida Turnpike.
Stay South on the Turnpike until it ends at US-1. Continue South 
on US-1 to Mile Marker 61 - Hawk's Cay Resort and Marina !!

The drive from Miami International Airport
to Hawks' Cay Resort is an hour and forty five minutes.
It is a beautiful drive, and is described by Rand-McNally as one of the most
scenic drives in the United States, "where the sky and the ocean meet".

HAWK's CAY RESORT PROVIDES COMPLIMENTARY TRANSPORTATION
TO AND FROM THE MARATHON AIRPORT (please give 24 hours notice).

American Airlines                   800-433-7300
USAir                               800-428-4322
Gulfstream International Airlines   800-992-8532

With expansion of the Marathon Airport (scheduled for
completion November 1994), the capacity
and number of flights will increase.
------------------------------------------------------------------


If you have any questions/requests, please contact
Dr. I. F. Akyildiz at ian@armani.gatech.edu; 404-894-5141 (tel); 404-853-9410 (fax).


From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 20 14:50:59 1994 
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          id <17556-0@osi-west.es.net>; Thu, 20 Oct 1994 11:49:38 +0000
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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 14:53:38 -0400
From: Carl Malamud 
Message-Id: <199410201853.OAA25653@trystero.radio.com>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: White House Announcement
Org: Internet Multicasting Service

Sigh.  We were all ready to go for Vice President's announcement of the
new WWW server.  All the usual problems of doing things out of White
House/EOB were all taken care of: power, a table, a machine that works,
etc... were all furnished by extremely capable staff at ARPA and NSF.

The only problem was connecting to the local net which used a DELNI.
We ran out of the DELNI into our TP hub and out to the Sun.  Everything
worked fine until the last minute when the hub broke.  The problem with
the White House complex is that it is *really* tough to run out, get some
more equipment, and run back in.  To use the technical term, we were
hosed.

Thanks to everybody for your patience.  We'll get this right one of
these days!

Carl

From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 20 15:59:28 1994 
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          via ESnet SMTP service id <18717-0@osi-west.es.net>;
          Thu, 20 Oct 1994 12:58:30 +0000
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          by uswat.advtech.uswest.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA03628 
          for ; Thu, 20 Oct 1994 13:58:26 -0600
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          id AA25668 (5.0/at-generic.8Nov93); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 13:57:57 +0700
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 13:57:57 +0700
From: Michael Cain 
Message-Id: <9410201957.AA25668@moly.advtech.uswest.com>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: multicast routing for segmented LAN?
Content-Length: 634

I will shortly have a need to provide IP multicast service over
our LAN, which is heavily segmented.  The routers tying each
segment to the backbone will not be multicast capable.  I want
to provide a "backdoor" router which passes *only* multicast
packets and connect it to the 12 or so segments which cover most
of the building.  I'd like it to be a real router, rather than
simply a multicast-only bridge, for all of the usual reasons.

I have about $30K to spend on this.  What kinds of options do
I have?  Do I have *any* options?

Thanks in advance,
Michael Cain
mcain@advtech.uswest.com
U S WEST Technologies
Boulder, Colorado

From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 21 08:09:08 1994 
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Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 13:08:51 MET
From: Dora Merelli 
To: rem-conf@es.net

subscribe Dora Merelli

From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 21 09:53:08 1994 
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Please unsubscribe me.

--
Ron
--

#-------------------------------------------------------------------------#
#   Ron Buttiglieri                   |     Hewlett Packard Company       #
#   Email: ron_b@apollo.hp.com        |     300 Apollo Drive              #
#   Phone: (508) 436 - 4340           |     MS CHR-03-DC                  #
#     Fax: (508) 436 - 5140           |     Chelmsford, MA  01824         #
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------#


From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 21 15:10:30 1994 
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          id <28420-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:10:03 +0000
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          Fri, 21 Oct 1994 15:07:45 -0400
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 15:10:43 -0500
To: sipherjd@potsdam.edu
From: Robert.Jewett@Potsdam.edu (Bob Jewett)
Subject: FYI: mbone/NSFnet migration
Cc: GRAZIAWD@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu, rem-conf 

Here is the posting about internet migration from Remconf that I told
you about.

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Hopefully most of you are aware of the pending massive restructuring of the
U.S. Internet (see footnote (1) below if not).  In a few idle minutes (ha!) I
attempted to extrapolate the existing mbone onto (my limited understanding of)
the brave new North American Internet topology.

First the good news: When everything is done, the existing mbone will match
new topology far better than we deserve to expect, perhaps almost optimal,
needing only a few minor tweaks.  This was a real surprise!

Naturally during the transition, this will not be the case: unless two
regionals connected by a tunnel move to their new National Service Provider at
the same time, the tunnel between them will temporarily pass through an
interconnect (a Network Access Point) between the NSPs.  Since all regionals
are going to be making the transition at different paces, the intermediate
states are likely to be pretty ugly, with possibly a dozen or more tunnels
crossing the NAPs.

It is hard to predict if this will be a problem.  The aggregate bandwidth
through the NAPs will be quite large - hundreds if not thousands of megabits
per second (see 2), so even two dozen copies of the mbone may be ok.  I would
not do anything drastic, such as shutting down the mbone (even temporarily).
However, if there are problems we MUST be prepaired to adjust the mbone's
bandwidth rating.

Now the bad news: the the transition schedule is already slipping, and the
slippage has widened the spread in expected transition dates.  The original
cut off date for the existing NSFnet service was October 31th.  It is being
extended on a month-by-month, peer-by-peer basis.  Most connections have
already been extended to Nov 30, which is less than a week before the
IETF......

The situation is complicated be two other issues: the Internet itself is going
to be rather fragile during the transition.  Although hundreds (thousands?) of
people have been working very hard on it, there is just too much new
technology, infrastructure and hardware for the transition to be totally free
of glitches.  There will be mbone outages that are due to IP failures
unrelated to mbone traffic.   It may be very difficult to tell if the mbone is
contributing any observed instability.

Furthermore, most of the contacts on the mbone provider list are already
working overtime on the Internet transition.  If some regional is having
problems with vanilla IP service, mbone problems will be secondary.

So, what can the research community do to help?  I can think of several things:

o Dust off mbone mapping, instrumentation and diagnostic tools - particularly
        "strip charts" for mbone load and route transitions per hour, so we
        have a "before" baseline, and can correlate route flaps with load.  If
        data storage is a problem let me know, and I can make some
        arrangements.

o Be patient when it is broken, and be aware that the the person who needs to
        fix it may have already been up all night.

o Be gentle with the bandwidth, or it may be discovered that is your bits were
        the "last straw".

o We need to have some administrative mechanism to come to a consensus about
        mbone capacity.  The scheduling tools are a nice idea, but how do you
        know how much BW you have to divide under conflicting reports of
        signal quality.

o Don't start a conversation about the tunneled vs native multicast.  We've
        been there.

I will be posting an updated mbone provider contact list sometime soon.

Sorry about the duplicate posting, but I believe that both the mbone users and
providers need to be aware of what is going on.

--MM--

----------------------------------------
Footnotes:

(1) To make a long story short, the existing NSFnet is a service of one
provider: Merit, with one prime subcontractor: ANS.  NSF is spending a large
sum of money to provide "free" T3 connections to the regionals.

After the transition, the NSF money will flow directly to the regionals (with a
builtin 5 year sunset), who must purchase connectivity from NSF certified
National Service Providers.  The primary requirement to be a NSP is that they
connect to the NSF awarded NAPs, which are for exchanging traffic between
providers.  (Much detail omited....).  In addition there are some Independent
Service Providers, who are selling a la cart connectivity, mostly to
businesses, etc.  They may also connect to the NAP's but unless they meet the
NSP certification, they are ineligible to directly carry NSF funded regionals.
Note that no NSF money goes directly to the NSPs, NAPs, or ISPs.  They get
all of their revenue by charging for their services.

The up-to-date status can be obtained under http://rrdb.merit.edu/home.html.
Note that the intended audience is the service providers, who do not need
introductory explanations.

(2) The aggregate bandwidth available within the NAPs is surely
gigabits/second, but most (all?) NSPs will connect via T3 links to 3 or 4
NAPs for a total usable IP bandwidth of no more than 160 Mbit/s.  I am not
privy to any of the global traffic models, so I can not comment on the
expected load on these links.



From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 21 21:29:03 1994 
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          id <01130-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 21 Oct 1994 18:28:43 +0000
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          Fri, 21 Oct 94 21:28:40 EDT
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 21:28:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Avri Doria 
Subject: subscription request
To: rem-conf@es.net
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


please add

avri@proteon.com to the remore conference mailing list

thanks
avri


From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Oct 23 07:47:25 1994 
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          id <08176-0@osi-west.es.net>; Sun, 23 Oct 1994 04:46:55 +0000
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          id ; Sun, 23 Oct 1994 11:46:40 +0000
To: mbone@ISI.EDU, rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Bandwidth and Protocols
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 94 11:46:35 +0000
Message-ID: <1415.782912795@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
From: Jon Crowcroft 


['scuse the cross post...]

Steve Casner reported again at ACM Multimedia that the mbone can
typically sustain 512kbps total traffic.

1. am i right in understanding this to be that too many FIXes (or NAPs or
LINX [Londin Internet Neutral eXchange]) are ethernet based and that
we are limited by the typical fanout from a sun on an ethernet as our
mbone fabric?

if so, surely going to cisco/pim or other embeded routing will get us
3-6 times as much bandwidth?

2. i had a long talk with some ibm multicast people at ACM Multimedia
and they really really want a closed group/client initited/controlled
model of IP Multicast - while i insist that the applciation layer is
the place to do group control, and that network layer route control is
no way to do real security, i suggest that with IP6 there is a neat
way to do O(1) compexity fixed group multicast for small groups which
is to use a source route option, but the list of places to visit is
tagged in some way to be a list of end points rather than a list of
intermediate points - then routers can simply use the unicast route
tables, but replicate the packet at the obvious points...

any thoughts?

 jon


From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 07:27:45 1994 
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          id <12788-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 04:27:18 +0000
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Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:27:10 +0200
To: rem-conf@es.net
From: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari)
Subject: MBone Agenda: update.

The MBone Agenda
October 94

Please refer to:

 http://www.cilea.it/MBone/agenda.html


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

All times are given in GMT.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

21/10 02:00  21/10 06:00       BayLISA: Larry Wall on PERL

Contact: blw@baylisa.org

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------


22/10 16:00  22/10 22:00       NPS Discovery Day

Contact: mccann@nps.navy.mil

The annual "open house" for the Naval Postgraduate School. Please join our
session to talk to local school kids.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

26/10 13:00  26/10 16:00       IPng Session at Interop

Contact: djennings@zdexpos.com - Dennis Jennings

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

28/10 14:00  28/10 22:00       Multimedia Networking (Columbia Workshop)

Contact: franco@ctr.columbia.edu,Franco Marconcini,(212)854-8928

Please, see "http://www.ctr.columbia.edu/Research/comet/mulnet94.html" for
schedule of the Workshop.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

28/10 17:00  28/10 22:00       Networked Information and the Scholar

Contact: robelr@indiana.edu, Allen Robel, (812)855-0962

Speakers: Michael Roberts (EDUCOM), Clifford Lynch (U. Calif), Kathy Krendal
(IU), Paul Peters (CNI), James J. O'Donnell (U Penn.)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

31/10 18:00  31/10 22:00       UMBC Crypto Seminar (Ingram: History,
Denning: Clipper)

Contact: sherman@cs.umbc.edu (Alan T. Sherman)

Rebroadcast. Ingram: 1pm EST. Denning: 2pm EST.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------



From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 09:10:14 1994 
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          id <13256-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 06:09:42 +0000
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          Mon, 24 Oct 94 09:09:37 EDT
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 94 09:09:37 EDT
From: jec@philabs.Philips.COM (Jorge E. Caviedes)
Message-Id: <9410241309.AA03211@mars.philabs.philips.com>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Recorded nv_vat sessions


To those who did the Multimedia Conf broadcast last week from S.F.,

Are the recorded sessions available? if so where can I ftp from?

thanks,

Jorge Caviedes
Philips Labs

From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 11:02:21 1994 
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          id <13938-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 08:01:51 +0000
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Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 11:01:45 -0400
From: kevin@cc.gatech.edu (Kevin C. Almeroth)
Message-Id: <199410241501.LAA18285@flora.cc.gatech.edu>
To: jec@philabs.Philips.COM, rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Re: Recorded nv_vat sessions

>>To those who did the Multimedia Conf broadcast last week from S.F.,
>>Are the recorded sessions available? if so where can I ftp from?

We did not record the sessions at the conference, but someone who was
watching may have recorded them.

-Kevin Almeroth

From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 11:59:20 1994 
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          Mon, 24 Oct 1994 08:58:25 -0700
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:00:46 -0700
From: braden@ISI.EDU
Posted-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:00:46 -0700
Message-Id: <199410241600.AA23777@can.isi.edu>
Received: by can.isi.edu (5.65c/4.0.3-4) id ;
          Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:00:46 -0700
To: mbone@ISI.EDU, rem-conf@es.net, J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Bandwidth and Protocols



  *> 
  *> 2. i had a long talk with some ibm multicast people at ACM Multimedia
  *> and they really really want a closed group/client initited/controlled
  *> model of IP Multicast - while i insist that the applciation layer is
  *> the place to do group control, and that network layer route control is
  *> no way to do real security, i suggest that with IP6 there is a neat
  *> way to do O(1) compexity fixed group multicast for small groups which
  *> is to use a source route option, but the list of places to visit is
  *> tagged in some way to be a list of end points rather than a list of
  *> intermediate points - then routers can simply use the unicast route
  *> tables, but replicate the packet at the obvious points...
  *> 
  *> any thoughts?
  *> 
  *>  jon
  *> 
  *> 

Jon,

A historical note:  Multicast via source routing approach was the first
suggestion for Internet multicast, made in a (SIGCOMM??) paper by
Lorenzo Aguilar about 10 years ago.  His idea languished because the
limited IP option space provided an absolute maximum of 9 destinations,
and more generally because it did not scale well to large groups.
Deering and Cheriton's approach was clearly superior, and the idea of
implementing two different approaches seemed yucky.  (This was one of
the first discussion topics of the End-to-End Task FOrce (now Research
Group) when it was formed in 1986.)

Bob





From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 12:35:16 1994 
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          Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:34:29 -0700
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:36:49 -0700
From: braden@ISI.EDU
Posted-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:36:49 -0700
Message-Id: <199410241636.AA23828@can.isi.edu>
Received: by can.isi.edu (5.65c/4.0.3-4) id ;
          Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:36:49 -0700
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: IETF WG meeting on MBONE
Cc: braden@ISI.EDU



The RSVP Working Group of the IETF would like to hold an MBONE
teleconference Thursday, 27 October at 1530-1730 GMT (0830 PDT/
1130EDT), using audio and whiteboard.  This is planned to be a
semi-closed conference (by "semi", I mean that the password will be
distributed via email to the 150+ people on the RSVP mailing list;
hence, there is potentially a large community to be included).

If there are any conflicts with this usage, please let me know.

Thanks,

Bob Braden

 

From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 13:03:06 1994 
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          Mon, 24 Oct 94 13:01:14 -0400
From: dgb@nyquist.bellcore.com (Dave Boyer 21723)
Message-Id: <9410241701.AA08039@nyquist.bellcore.com>
Subject: Re: Recorded nv_vat sessions
To: kevin@cc.gatech.edu (Kevin C. Almeroth)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:01:14 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: jec@philabs.philips.com, rem-conf@es.net
In-Reply-To: <199410241501.LAA18285@flora.cc.gatech.edu> from "Kevin C. Almeroth" at Oct 24, 94 11:01:45 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL2]
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> 
> >>To those who did the Multimedia Conf broadcast last week from S.F.,
> >>Are the recorded sessions available? if so where can I ftp from?
> 
> We did not record the sessions at the conference, but someone who was
> watching may have recorded them.
> 
If anyone did make recordings, I would be interested in a copy  of the
Best Papaer session.

Thanks
Dave Boyer

From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 13:36:52 1994 
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          id <15483-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 10:36:17 +0000
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Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:35:09 +0500
From: pirey@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Phil Irey)
Message-Id: <9410241735.AA08280@vaxless>
To: rem-conf@es.net, mbone@isi.edu
Subject: IP Multicast Support for Ultrix 4.3 or Ultrix 4.4
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1230

Has anyone made a distribution of IP Multicast support for
Ultrix 4.3 or 4.4?  There seems to be some confusion as to
whether or not the distribution on gregorio will work on 4.3.

Also do the distributions (if they exist) support the DEC FDDI
board?

Since we don't have a source license, we can't make these changes
ourself. 

I sent out a request on Ultrix 4.4 on August 2 and received no
positive replies, just requests from others interested in any
information I might have received on the subject.  Although we
would prefer to use 4.4, it is possible for us to back up to
4.3 if necessary.  I don't want to make the move back unless I
have reasonable assurance that IP multicast will work under 4.3.

I am disappointed that DEC is not taking a more active role in
supporting multicast with their Ultrix product.  We have been
told to move to OSF/1 where it is supported, but we have 250,000
lines of code running on 8 Ultrix 4.4 (or 4.3) workstations and 
can't migrate easily to their new product.  Also, we have IP multicast
running on our Sun and SGI workstations, but not on the DECstations
running Ultrix 4.3 or 4.4.  The availability of this software is
definitely a product differentiatior in my mind.

thanks,

phil

From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 14:37:59 1994 
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          Mon, 24 Oct 94 13:35:49 CDT
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:35:49 -0500
From: Matt Crawford 
Subject: Re: MBone Agenda: update.
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 24 Oct 94 13:27:10 +0100. <01HIN87FRAIA00C1J6@FNAL.FNAL.GOV>
To: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari)
Cc: rem-conf@es.net
Message-id: <9410241835.AA29927@munin.fnal.gov>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> 21/10 02:00  21/10 06:00       BayLISA: Larry Wall on PERL
> ...etc...

Could you put the month in roman numerals, please?  Different people
use different conventions for month/date or date/month.  21.X (or
21/X) will look odd to most Americans at first, but is unambiguous.

From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 16:42:26 1994 
X400-Received: by mta osi-west.es.net in /PRMD=ESnet/ADMD= /C=US/; Relayed;
               Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:41:47 +0000
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:41:47 +0000
X400-Originator: rem-conf-request@es.net
X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:;
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Priority: Non-Urgent
DL-Expansion-History: rem-conf@es.net ; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:41:47 +0000;
From: Ramon Puigjaner 
Message-ID: <2794*/S=putxi/OU=ps/O=uib/PRMD=iris/ADMD=mensatex/C=es/@MHS>
To: rem-conf@es.net (Receipt Notification Requested) (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: HPN'95

Could you broadcast the following call for papers of HPN'95 among the people 
of your mailing list?
Thank you in advance.
Best regards
Ramon
======================================================================
  Ramon Puigjaner		Universitat de les Illes Balears
  Phone: +34-71-173288		Departament de Ciencies Matematiques i
         +34-71-173401					Informatica
  Fax:   +34-71-173003		Carretera de Valldemossa km 7.6
  e-mail: putxi@ps.uib.es	07071 PALMA (Spain)
======================================================================


                    6th IFIP INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON
                     HIGH PERFORMANCE NETWORKING, HPN'95
                 PALMA DE MALLORCA, BALEARIC ISLANDS, SPAIN
                           SEPTEMBER 11-15, 1995

                              CALL FOR PAPERS

OBJECTIVE AND SCOPE

This workshop belongs to the series started in 1987 in Aachen, followed by 
Liege in 1988, Berlin in 1991, Liege in 1992 and Grenoble 1994. It aims at 
presenting and discussing evolution of communications in the framework of 
high-speed networking and computing in private and public networks. Original 
contributions on the following topics are solicited.

A. NEW MAC SERVICES AND PROTOCOLS
Gigabit networks
ATM-based systems and networks
LAN emulation on ATM networks
QoS routing for ATM networks

B. ENHANCED NETWORK AND TRANSPORT SERVICES AND PROTOCOLS
Multipeer services and protocols
Admission and congestion control
Time-constraint management

C. NEW SERVICES AND PROTOCOLS
Synchronization semantic and management
Protocols for groupware communication
Video over high speed networks
QoS semantic

D. NEW APPLICATIONS
Architectural frameworks for distributed multimedia: Applications, testbeds,
	implemetation experiments and experiences
Distribution network algorithms
Groupware communication
Video conferencing

E. INTERNETWORKING
Routing in high performance multimedia networks
Bridges and routers technology and protocols
Meshed architectures

F. IMPLEMENTATION AND PERFORMANCE EVALUATION
Performance of high speed networks
Efficient Protocol Implementation
New implementation architectures

Prospective authors are kindly invited to send an intention to submit a paper 
(with provisional title, author list, and address) to Ramon Puigjaner 
(putxi@ps.uib.es)


PROGRAM COMMITTEE

Daniel Abensour         (IBM Networking Systems, RTP, USA)
Harmen van As           (IBM Zurich Research, CH)
Patrick Baker           (HP Labs Bristol, UK)
Augusto Casaca          (INESC, P)
Olga Casals             (Univ. Politecnica de Catalunya, E)
Greg Chesson            (SGI, USA)
Andre Danthine          (Univ. de Liege, B)
Michel Diaz             (LAAS-CNRS, Toulouse, F)
Christophe Diot         (INRIA, Sophia Antipolis, F)
Otto Duarte             (Univ. Fed. do Rio de Janeiro, BR)
Serge Fdida             (Univ. Rene Descartes, Paris, F)
Zygmunt Haas            (AT&T Bell Labs, USA)
Marjory Johnson         (RIACS, USA)
Dae Young Kim           (Chungram Nat. Univ., SKorea)
Thomas F. La Porta      (AT&T Bell Labs. USA)
Yves Le Boudec          (Ecole Fed. Polytechnique de Lausanne, CH)
Patrick O'Callaghan     (Univ. Simon Bolivar, Caracas, V)
Craig Partridge         (BBN, USA)
Radu Popescu-Zeletin    (GMD FOKUS, D)
JosŽ M. del Prado   (Alcatel, SESA, E)
Ramon Puigjaner         (Univ. de les Illes Balears, E), Chairman
Guy Pujolle             (Univ. Versailles, F)
S. V. Raghavan          (Indian Inst. of Tech. Madras, IN)
Aruna Seneviratne       (Univ. of Technology, Sydney, AUS)
Otto Spaniol            (Tech. Univ. Aachen, D)
Ahmed Tantawy           (IBM T. J. Watson Research Lab. USA)
Shuji Tasaka            (Nagoya Inst. of Technology, J)
Samir Tohme             (Telecom Paris, F)
Giorgio Ventre          (Univ. di Napoli Federico II, I)
Martina Zitterbart      (Univ. Karlsruhe, D)

ORGANISING COMMITTEE CO-CHAIRMEN

Llorenc Huguet          (Univ. de les Illes Balears, E)
Bartomeu Serra          (Univ. de les Illes Balears, E)


VENUE

The conference will be organized by the Universitat de les Illes Balears, and 
will be held in Palma de Mallorca, Spain. Palma is located in the Balearic 
Islands and is connected by plane to the main European cities and by ferry to 
Barcelona and Valencia.

Palma is the main city in the Balearic Islands in the heart of the West 
Mediterranean Sea. From the creation of its University in 1978 it is intending 
to promote any kind of activities in the computer and communciation domain 
(international Conferences in 1988, 1991 and 1993, creation of a a high 
technology R&D park, etc.).

CONTRIBUTIONS

Papers must be written in English and should not exceed 12 single spaced pages, 
or 20 double spaced pages. The front page should contain the authors names, 
address, phones, faxes, and e.mails, as well as a 150 words abstract. All 
submitted papers that scope with the topics will be refereed. Authors must 
join a letter with their committement to present the paper at the conference.

Authors of accepted papers will be requested to sign a copyright release from 
the IFIP. A participant edition of the proceedings will be made available at 
the Conference from the camera-ready copy which will be used later on for the 
publication of the proceedings by a well known publisher. The accepted papers 
not presented by the author(s) at the conference will not be included in the 
published proceedings.

Five copies of the submitted papers will have to be received no later than 
January 31, 1995, by :

Ramon PUIGJANER
Universitat de les Illes Balears
Departament de Ciencies Matematiques i Informatica
Carretera de Valldemossa km. 7.6
07071 PAALMA (Spain)
Phone : +34-71-173288 (direct line)
        +34-71-173401 (secretary)
Fax :   +34-71-173003; 
e.mail: putxi@ps.uib.es

TUTORIALS

Tutorials will be organized on September 11 and 12, 1995. Suggestions for full 
day tutorials should be sent to the Program Committee Chairman before November 
30, 1994, including the objectives and the outline of the tutorial and a short 
CV of the speaker.

IMPORTANT DATES

TODAY                           NOTIFICATION OF INTEND TO SUBMIT A PAPER
NOVEMBER 30, 1994               TUTORIAL SUBMISSION DEADLINE
JANUARY 31, 1995                FULL PAPER SUBMISSION DEADLINE
APRIL 30, 1995                  NOTIFICATION OF ACCPTANCE
JUNE 15, 1995                   CAMERA-READY COPY DUE
SEPTEMBER 11-12, 1995           TUTORIALS
SEPTEMBER 13-15, 1995           CONFERENCE


Any information about HPN'95 can be requested through e-mail at the following 
address: HPN95@ps.uib.es

If interested by HPN '95, return the following information to Ramon Puigjaner 
(by post or e.mail)

[ ]  I intend to submit a paper to HPN '95; the provisional title will be:
	
	
The list of authors will be 	


E-mail of the first author:	


[  ]  I do not intend to submit a paper but I am interested to receive the 
program of HPN '95


First and last names 	

Title 	

Affiliation 	

Address	

Tel:                                    Fax	

E.mail 	


From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 17:07:29 1994 
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          id <17271-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 14:06:57 +0000
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          id <01HINSEX3HM800C5CF@FNAL.FNAL.GOV>; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:06:33 CDT
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          Mon, 24 Oct 94 16:06:19 CDT
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:06:19 -0500
From: Matt Crawford 
Subject: Re: MBone Agenda: update.
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 24 Oct 94 13:58:36 PDT. <199410242058.NAA18405@feta.cisco.com>
To: Bob Stewart 
Cc: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it, rem-conf@es.net
Message-id: <9410242106.AA01090@munin.fnal.gov>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> I lurk here, but I can't let this slide.  Months have perfectly good names
> that abbreviate well to 3 non-ambiguous characters.  [...]

But not the *same* 3 non-ambiguous characters for everyone.  Which
comes first, ENE or SYY?
					Matt



From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 17:17:39 1994 
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          id <17206-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:58:44 +0000
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          id NAA18405; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:58:36 -0700
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:58:36 -0700
From: Bob Stewart 
Message-Id: <199410242058.NAA18405@feta.cisco.com>
To: crawdad@munin.fnal.gov
Cc: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it, rem-conf@es.net
In-Reply-To: <9410241835.AA29927@munin.fnal.gov> (message from Matt Crawford on Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:35:49 -0500)
Subject: Re: MBone Agenda: update.

>> 21/10 02:00  21/10 06:00       BayLISA: Larry Wall on PERL
>> ...etc...
>
>Could you put the month in roman numerals, please?  Different people
>use different conventions for month/date or date/month.  21.X (or
>21/X) will look odd to most Americans at first, but is unambiguous.

I lurk here, but I can't let this slide.  Months have perfectly good names
that abbreviate well to 3 non-ambiguous characters.  Roman numerals would
not only be totally weird, but would require MORE (and variable) space.

21-Oct and Oct-21 are both real clear.

	Bob

From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 17:19:00 1994 
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          id <17350-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 14:17:20 +0000
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          id OAA19253; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 14:17:12 -0700
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 14:17:12 -0700
From: Bob Stewart 
Message-Id: <199410242117.OAA19253@feta.cisco.com>
To: crawdad@munin.fnal.gov
Cc: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it, rem-conf@es.net
In-Reply-To: <9410242106.AA01090@munin.fnal.gov> (message from Matt Crawford on Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:06:19 -0500)
Subject: Re: MBone Agenda: update.

>> I lurk here, but I can't let this slide.  Months have perfectly good names
>> that abbreviate well to 3 non-ambiguous characters.  [...]
>
>But not the *same* 3 non-ambiguous characters for everyone.  Which
>comes first, ENE or SYY?

Silly me.  I assumed that since the rest of the entry was in English, it was
appropriate for the date.  Additional sarcasm withheld.  I don't have a dog
in this fight.

	Bob

From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 19:15:56 1994 
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          id <18007-0@osi-west.es.net>; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:14:59 +0000
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          Mon, 24 Oct 1994 15:24:49 +0800
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 15:24:49 +0800
From: Ross.Finlayson@Eng.Sun.COM (Ross Finlayson)
Message-Id: <9410242224.AA04988@auckland.Eng.Sun.COM>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Re: MBone Agenda: update.
Reply-To: finlayson@Eng.Sun.COM
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 0

> >> 21/10 02:00  21/10 06:00       BayLISA: Larry Wall on PERL
> >> ...etc...
> >
> >Could you put the month in roman numerals, please?  Different people
> >use different conventions for month/date or date/month.  21.X (or
> >21/X) will look odd to most Americans at first, but is unambiguous.
> 
> I lurk here, but I can't let this slide.  Months have perfectly good names
> that abbreviate well to 3 non-ambiguous characters.  Roman numerals would
> not only be totally weird, but would require MORE (and variable) space.
> 
> 21-Oct and Oct-21 are both real clear.

I suggest just using "yyyy.mm.dd" format, e.g., 1994.10.21

This format has a number of advantages:
- It's unambiguous
- It's not specific to the English language
- It gives correct lexicographic ordering (i.e., is easy to sort)

	Ross.

From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 20:52:52 1994 
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          id <15390-0@osi-east.es.net>; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:52:31 +0000
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          for rem-conf@es.net); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 19:50:07 -0500
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 19:50:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Allen Robel 
Sender: Allen Robel 
Reply-To: Allen Robel 
Subject: INforum: October 28th videoconference program
To: rem-conf@es.net
Cc: robelr@indiana.edu
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hi,

Below is the program description and schedule for the upcoming "Networked
Information and the Scholar" multicast (all times -0500 GMT).  There are
times allocated for questions from the audience.  We hope to be able to
take questions from the MBONE audience as well. 

Since our mbone router is not located in, and couldn't be moved to, the
Radio/TV facilities where the event is taking place, I've rigged a
SunAudio->Phone connection and will dial into their control room so that
your questions can be heard by the panalists.  The technology I used for
this is pretty interesting actually.  I took a portable speaker, put it
in a cardboard box along with the telephone handset and closed the top to
reduce noise! Apparently it works like a champ since our (very picky)
Radio/TV folks complimented the quality they were receiving :-)

regards,

Allen Robel                        Internet: robelr@indiana.edu
Network Engineer                   voice:    (812)855-0962
Indiana University                 FAX:      (812)855-8299



           "Networked Information and the Scholar"

October 28, 1994                      Indiana University-Bloomington 


This conference examines the growing use of networked information 
and how it can support the goals of higher education. It will present 
perspectives on the impact of electronic information and computer 
networks on teaching, learning, research and scholarly communication. 
Its focus will be the radical changes and trends that are shaping the 
future of academia. 



                            PROGRAM 



12:30 - 12:37             Introduction Moderator, Diane Ward) 
12:37 - 1:00              Paul Evan Peters 
1:00  - 1:25              Michael Roberts 
1:25  - 1:50              James J. O'Donnell 
1:50  - 2:00              Questions from the audience 
2:00  - 2:10              Break 
2:10  - 2:35              Kathy Krendl 
2:35  - 3:00              Clifford Lynch 
3:00  - 3:10              Questions from the audience 
3:10  - 3:20              Break 
3:20  - 3:30              Responses from Jim Neal and Lee Caldwell 
3:30  - 4:25              Discussion with speakers, led Neal and Caldwell   
4:25  - 4:30              Closing  
__________________________________________________________

                          SPEAKERS 

Kathy Krendl is Dean of Continuing Studies, and Professor, Department of
Telecommunications, Indiana University. Former Chair of the
Telecommunications Department at Indiana University, Professor Krendl is
an expert on the use of media in instructional applications.  She has been
a visiting scholar at the Children's Television Workshop and has served as
a consultant for the Aspen Institute, CTW, Apple Computer, the Ohio Board
of Regents, and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. She received her
Ph.D in Communication in 1982 from the university of Michigan. Krendl will
discuss the impact of networked information on teaching in higher
education and draw from her current work in distance education brought
about by the success of the Internet. 

Clifford A. Lynch is Director of Library Automation at the University of
California Office of the President. Dr. Lynch is responsible for the
MELVYL public access information system at University of California.  He
is currently completing a term on the ASIS Board of Directors.  He is on
the Board of National Information Standards Organization and is leader of
Architectures and Standards Working Group of CNI.  Lynch received his
Ph.D. in Computer Science from the University of California of Berkeley in
1987.  He has published widely on networked information resources, the
impact of technology on libraries, scholarly communication, and copyright
in books and journals.  Lynch will address the evolving role of academic
libraries in the networked environment and the changing nature of the
scholarly record, issues of preservation of electronic information and
critical issues of privacy in the academic community. 

James J. O'Donnell is Professor and Coordinator of the Center for Computer
Analysis of Texts, Department of Classical Studies, University of
Pennsylvania.  Professor O'Donnell received his Ph.D from Yale in 1975.
His research is on classical and medieval scholarship and the history of
systems of communication and their impact.  He recently began teaching a
Latin course on the Internet. His home page on World Wide Web
 contains pointers to his
publications and research.  O'Donnell will review the impact of electronic
information on academic research from the perspective of the scholar in
the humanities.  From this perspective he will focus on the changing
information needs of the teaching and research faculty. 

Paul Evan Peters is the Executive Director of the Coalition for Networked
Information (CNI), Washington, D.C.  Mr. Peters founded CNI in March 1990,
to promote the creation and use of networked information resources and
services that advance scholarship and intellectual productivity. The
Coalition is sponsored by three associations: the Association of Research
Libraries (ARL), CAUSE, and EDUCOM. Prior to the establishment of CNI,
Peters was Systems Coordinator at the New York Public Library from 1987
through 1989, and was Assistant University Librarian for Systems at
Columbia University from 1979 through 1986.  He holds a masters degree in
Sociology from Columbia University and an M.L.S. from the University of
Pittsburgh.  Peters will address the impact of networked information
across cultures within the university:  the growing interdependence of the
teaching faculty, IT professionals and librarians on issues involved in
networked information.  He will concentrate on partnerships and coalitions
in the teaching, use, access and provision of critical networked
information to the scholar.  Michael M. Roberts is Vice President at
EDUCOM. He also serves as a founding Trustee and was the first Executive
Director of the Internet Society.  Mr. Roberts holds an MBA from the
Stanford Graduate School of Business.  He has been a consultant and
advisor to many institutions of higher education, to the National Center
for Higher Education Management Systems, and to the Navy Department. He
has been author, co-author and editor of numerous publications on
networking and wrote the Introduction to "Campus Networking Strategies,"
published by Digital Press in 1988.  His testimony before the United
States Congress includes, "The Need for a National Higher Education
Computer Network, " (House Science, Research and Technology Subcommittee,
1987), and "Antidotes to the Internet Worm," (House Telecommunications and
Finance Subcommittee, 1989).  He writes regularly in Educom Review on
issues of networked information and the impact of National Information
Infrastructure (NII) policies on higher education. 

                          DISCUSSION LEADERS 

Lee G. Caldwell is Associate Vice President of Information Technologies,
Dean of Academic Computing, and Professor of Business Administration at
Indiana University. He received his Ph.D. in Strategic Management from
Texas A&M University in 1982 and a J.D.  from Brigham Young University in
1978. He served on the faculty of Sam Houston State University and the
University of Utah, where he also served as Assistant Dean. Most recently
he was Director of Education Marketing for Novell, Inc. He served as
Director of Placement and Director of Computer Services for the Academy of
Management. He is active in international academic networking efforts and
served as Chair of the Advisory Council of the Internet Society and
Co-chair of the Developing Countries Committee. He publishes extensively
in technology and management journals. 


James G. Neal has been Dean of University Libraries at Indiana University
since 1989. A 1969 Russian Studies graduate of Rutgers University, Neal
did his graduate work in history and library science at Columbia
University. He was the 1992-93 president of the Library Administration and
Management Association and chair of the Association of Research
Libraries's Information Policies Committee and its Working Group on
Copyright. A frequent conference speaker, consultant, and published
researcher, his areas of focus are the development and implementation of
new information technologies, human resource development, and
international librarianship. He is co-editor of the new JAI Press series
on Advances in Information Technology. Neal is actively involved in policy
and planning activities in the areas of network development, academic
computing, minority enhancement, international programs, capital
priorities, economic development, curricular affairs, records management,
distance education and personnel development. 


                             MODERATOR 

Diane Ward is the public affairs producer and host of "Studio Six," a
weekly public affairs program, at WTIU, Indiana University's public
television station.  A television producer and host for thirteen years,
her work has included production of a documentary on the life and work of
Dr. Alfred Kinsey, coverage of legislative forums, and numerous public
affairs specials on community and educational issues.  She also has been a
producer at the Bridge Gate Dinner Theater in Morgantown, W.Va. and an
English teacher and department head in Columbus Grove, OH.  Ward has a
M.F.A. from Ohio University.  She is currently President of the
Bloomington Press Club, President of the Network for Career Women and
Vice-President of the Board of the Family Services Association of Monroe
County. 

__________________________________________________________

                          SELECTED READINGS 

Caldwell, Lee G. "Computerizing Campuses is a Tricky Business." LAN Times
(March 1989). 

_______________. "Workstation to Internet: Problems, Solutions and 
Challenges." Computer Networks and ISDN Systems, 23 (1991):25-28. 

CAUSE/EFFECT, 17,3 (Fall 1994). Issue focussed "on Library/IT 
Collaboration." 

Cummings, Anthony M. at al. University Libraries and Scholarly 
Communication: A Study Prepared for the Andrew W. Mellon 
Foundation. (Washington, D.C.: Association of Research Libraries for 
the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation, 1992). 

Directory of Electronic Journals, Newsletters, and Academic Discussion 
Lists. (Washington, D.C.: Association of Research Libraries, 4th ed. 
1994). 

Ehrlich, Thomas, James G. Neal and Polley Ann McClure.  "What Presidents
Need to Know About the Integration of Information Technologies on Campus."
HEIRAlliance Executive Strategies Report #1 (September 1992) [For
electronic copy e-mail:  HEIRAES@CAUSE.Colorado.edu with the message: 
GET HEIRA.ES1] 

Gateways, Gatekeepers, and Roles in the Information Omniverse: 
Proceedings of the Third Symposium: November 13-15, 1993, Washington, D.C. 
Eds. Ann Okerson and Dru Mogge.  (Washington, D.C.: Association of
Research Libraries, Office of Scientific and Academic Publishing, 1994). 

Heath, Fred M.  "The Emerging National Information Infrastructure: An 
Interview with Paul Evan Peters and Jim Neal."  Library Administration 
and Management, 7 (Fall 1993):200-207. 

Hess, Charlotte and Bernbom, Gerald.  "INforum: Building Strong 
Partnerships." College and Research Library News, 55,9 (October 
1994):560-563. 

"If We Build It: Scholarly Communication and Network Technologies: 
Proceedings of the North American Serials Interest Group, Inc." Serials 
Librarian, 23,3/4 (1993). 

Krendl, Kathy A.  "The Impact of Computers on Learning:  Research on 
In-School and Out-of-School Settings."  Journal of Computing in Higher 
Education, 5,2 (Spring 1994). 

Lynch, Clifford A.  "The Transformation of Scholarly Communication and 
the Role of the Library in the Age of Networked Information." Serials 
Librarian, 23,3/4 (1993):5-20. 

_________________. "Rethinking the Integrity of the Scholarly Record 
in the Networked Information Age." Educom Review, 29,2 (March/April 
1994). 

Neal, James G.  "The White House Conference:  The Academic Library 
Agenda."  College and Research Library News, 10 (November 
1991):651-2. 

"Networked Information and the Scholar: An International Satellite 
Videoconference sponsored by Indiana University's INforum." (October 
28, 1994) Biographical and Production Information; World Wide Web  
 

O'Donnell, James J. "St. Augustine to NREN: The Tree of Knowledge 
and How It Grows."  Serials Librarian, 23,3/4 (1993). 

O'Donnell, James J.  "The Virtual Library; An Idea Whose Time Has 
Passed."  In:  Gateways, Gatekeepers, and Roles in the Information 
Omniverse: Proceedings of the Third Symposium: November 13-15, 
1993, Washington, D.C.  Eds. Ann Okerson and Dru Mogge. 
(Washington, D.C.: Association of Research Libraries, Office of 
Scientific and Academic Publishing, 1994):19-31. 

Peters, Paul Evan.  "Exploring the Potential to Transform Scholarly 
Communication."  Educom Review, 28,2 (March/April 1993). 

_________________.  "Is the Library a `Place' in the Age of Networks." 
 Educom Review, 28, 2 (March/April 1993).                                         

Roberts, Michael M.  "Building the NII: Challenges for Higher 
Education."  Educom Review, 29,2 (March/April 1994). 

_________________.  "Internet Accounting Revisited."  Educom 
Review, 28,6, November/December 1993). 

Scholarly Publishing on the Electronic Networks:  The New Generation: 
Visions and Opportunities in Not-for-profit Publishing: Proceedings of 
the Second Symposium, December 5-8, 1992, Washington, D.C.  Ed. 
Ann Okerson. (Washington, D.C.: Association of Research Libraries, 
Office of Scientific and Academic Publishing, 1993). 

Twigg, Carol A.  "The Need for a National Learning Infrastructure." 
Educom Review, 29,4 (September/October 1994). 

__________________________________________________________

Conference Coordinators: 
         Kristine Brancolini          
         Charlotte Hess 
         Diane Jung-Gribble 

Publicity:
         Mark Sheehan
         Howard Rosenbaum
         INforum 

Co-Chairs:
         Phyllis Davidson
         Charlotte Hess          

Producers: 
         Michael Jasiak
         Eugene Brancolini 

Production Assistant:
         Steve Egyhazi 


From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 21:57:08 1994 
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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 09:58:24 MYT
From: fhlee@csam.MY (Lee Fook Heng)
Message-Id: <9410250158.AA13962@csam.MY>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: [Q]:How to "bind" a "group host" to a multicast addr?
Cc: fhlee@csam.MY

Hi,

I am new to "multicast" and trying to learn more about it.

I am trying to setup multicasting in my network and
was wondering how to "bind" a group host to a
particular multicast address.


Thanks for any advice.


-- 
   Lee, Fook Heng
   System Engineer
   CSA Malaysia

   Tel  : +603-7587878 (ext. 320)
   Fax  : +603-7587382
   email: fhlee@csam.my


From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Oct 24 23:11:52 1994 
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From: Stephen Casner 
Subject: Re: Recorded nv_vat sessions
To: jec@philabs.philips.com, rem-conf@es.net
Message-Id: <783054049.0.CASNER@XFR.ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <9410241309.AA03211@mars.philabs.philips.com>
Mail-System-Version: 

I am also looking for recordings of the multicast from MM'94
last week.  I intended to record our demos of MBone/RSVP and
Distributed Music on the local machines, but in the heat of
preparations forgot to set that up.  If anyone else recorded
them, I'd like to get a copy.  In particular, I'm looking for
the times when those demos were "featured", at 11 am PDT and
12 noon PDT on Thursday, October 20.
						-- Steve
-------

From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 25 00:43:27 1994 
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From: Shawn Michael Johnson 
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unsubscribe Shawn Johnson

From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 25 01:10:33 1994 
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From: Jaeho Yang 
Message-Id: <199410250507.OAA02613@cosmos.kaist.ac.kr>
Subject: Re: [Q]:How to "bind" a "group host" to a multicast addr?
To: fhlee@csam.MY (Lee Fook Heng)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 14:07:00 +0900 (KST)
Cc: rem-conf@es.net
In-Reply-To: <9410250158.AA13962@csam.MY> from "Lee Fook Heng" at Oct 25, 94 09:58:24 am
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+  Hi,
+  
+  I am new to "multicast" and trying to learn more about it.
+  
+  I am trying to setup multicasting in my network and
+  was wondering how to "bind" a group host to a
+  particular multicast address.
+  

   You can find comprehensive short programs at agate.lut.ac.uk:/pub/mbone.

   ftp://agate.lut.ac.uk/pub/mbone/
            {mcast_chk.c, sd_listen.c vat_relay.tar.Z, etc.}


From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 25 10:23:15 1994 
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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 16:22:40 +0200
To: rem-conf@es.net
From: calegari@imicilea.cilea.it (Antonio Calegari)
Subject: Re: MBone Agenda: update.

>>> 21/10 02:00  21/10 06:00       BayLISA: Larry Wall on PERL
>>> ...etc...
>>
>>Could you put the month in roman numerals, please?  Different people
>>use different conventions for month/date or date/month.  21.X (or
>>21/X) will look odd to most Americans at first, but is unambiguous.
>
>I lurk here, but I can't let this slide.  Months have perfectly good names
>that abbreviate well to 3 non-ambiguous characters.  Roman numerals would
>not only be totally weird, but would require MORE (and variable) space.
>
>21-Oct and Oct-21 are both real clear.
>
>        Bob
>
> And Ross:
>I suggest just using "yyyy.mm.dd" format, e.g., 1994.10.21
>
>This format has a number of advantages:
>- It's unambiguous
>- It's not specific to the English language
>- It gives correct lexicographic ordering (i.e., is easy to sort)
>
>

I think it's just a matter of taste. All models are clear enough (and
clearer than mine).
Temporarily I have choosen the form dd-Mmm proposed by Bob only because it
was faster for me to change the script code in that direction (60 secs).
Let me know if further ambiguities arise.

Thank you all.

-Antonio


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Antonio Calegari                        CILEA - Segrate - Milan
tel. : +39 (0)2 26995 257               Interuniversity Computing Centre
email: calegari@icil64.cilea.it         ITALY



From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 25 13:41:47 1994 
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From: Sascha Ignjatovic 
Subject: subscribe
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subscribe sascha ignjatovic  signato@info.archlab.tuwien.ac.at
thanks


From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Oct 25 16:07:43 1994 
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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 16:07:04 -0400
From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" 
Message-Id: <199410252007.AA22925@toto.cs.umbc.edu>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: UMBC Cryptology Colloquium (Halloween Double Feature)


On Monday October 31, we will rebroadcast talks by Ingram and Denning
over the internet using Mbone 

 Alan Sherman
 Computer Science Department
 University of Maryland Baltimore County

------------------------------------------------------
1. Historical Perspectives in Communications Security
				   
   Jack E. Ingram
   Curator, National Cryptologic Museum
   NSA Center for Cryptologic History

   1:00pm EST (18:00 GMT)
   Monday October 31, 1994

2. The Clipper Chip
 
   Dorothy Denning
   Georgetown University
				   
   2:00pm EST (22:00 GMT)
   Monday October 31, 1994
------------------------------------------------------

For more about Mbone, see

	http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/index.html
	http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/seminars/work.html
	http://www.eit.com/techinfo/mbone/mbone.html
        http://www.cilea.it/MBone/agenda.html

        rem-conf@es.net    (email list)
  
        recent 1994 CACM article

After loading the appropriate software, simply run the program sd





From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 26 09:57:44 1994 
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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 09:57:12 -0400
From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" 
Message-Id: <199410261357.AA23799@toto.cs.umbc.edu>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: UMBC Cryptology Colloquium: Time Clarification


My previous message should have stated that the second talk (by
Denning) will begin at 19:00 GMT (2pm EST).

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

On Monday October 31, we will rebroadcast talks by Ingram and Denning
over the internet using Mbone 

 Alan Sherman
 Computer Science Department
 University of Maryland Baltimore County

------------------------------------------------------
1. Historical Perspectives in Communications Security
				   
   Jack E. Ingram
   Curator, National Cryptologic Museum
   NSA Center for Cryptologic History

   1:00pm EST (18:00 GMT)
   Monday October 31, 1994

2. The Clipper Chip
 
   Dorothy Denning
   Georgetown University
				   
   2:00pm EST (19:00 GMT)
   Monday October 31, 1994

From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 26 12:04:13 1994 
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From: Toerless Eckert 
Message-Id: <199410261603.AA22357@faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: Re: UMBC Cryptology Colloquium (Halloween Double Feature)
To: "Dr. Alan Sherman" 
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 17:03:12 MET
Cc: rem-conf@es.net
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Organisation: CSD IMMD IV, University of Erlangen, Germany
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> On Monday October 31, we will rebroadcast talks by Ingram and Denning
> over the internet using Mbone 
[..]

Have you got an NSA clearing for exporting this kind of information ?
Wouldn't it be a thread to national security of the united states of
america to tell people around the world in real-time and interactively
about cryptography ?

Ok. Only joking. Of course i know that the export restrictions apply
only to actual software. Nevertheless do i think that (no personal offense
meant to anyone personally) with regard to cryptology, the rest of the world
should ignore the usa given their arrogant and preposterous national export
policy.

Best regards
	Toerless Eckert

From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 26 14:01:50 1994 
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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:58:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Marc Ph. A. J. St.-Gil - UNIX/VAX Systems Manager" 
To: Matt Crawford 
Cc: Antonio Calegari , rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Re: MBone Agenda: update.
In-Reply-To: <9410241835.AA29927@munin.fnal.gov>
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 24 Oct 1994, Matt Crawford wrote:
> > 21/10 02:00  21/10 06:00       BayLISA: Larry Wall on PERL
> > ...etc...
> Could you put the month in roman numerals, please?  Different people
> use different conventions for month/date or date/month.  21.X (or
> 21/X) will look odd to most Americans at first, but is unambiguous.

Yuck!  Why not just either
  a) pick a "network date order" much like was done on big-endian vs.
     little endian byte ordering (I vote for dd/mm/yy which is far more 
     logical than mm/dd/yy IMNSHO)
  b) use the 3 letter abbreviations that are fairly well recognized (not a
     good idea, because it's not fair to force the world to use english 
     month names)

Just my $0.02 worth,
Marc
--
Marc St.-Gil, UNIX/VAX Systems Manager     AKA:      The UNIXMeister(tm)
  Academic Computing Services              Internet: mstgil@unt.edu
  University of North Texas                Voice:    817/565-3408
  PO Box 13495, Denton TX, 76203-6495      FAX:      817/565-4060


From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 26 14:41:07 1994 
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          id ; Wed, 26 Oct 1994 18:39:58 +0000
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Not SPARC 5 Audio.
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 18:39:46 +0000
From: Gordon Joly 


nv under Solaris 2.4 with Sunvideo card.

The produces a blank image. Anybody else seen this?



Gordon Joly        Phone +44 171 380 7934      FAX +44 171 387 1397
Email: G.Joly@cs.ucl.ac.uk    http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/people/gordo/
Comp Sci, University College, London, Gower Street, LONDON WC1E 6BT


From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Oct 26 15:58:34 1994 
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To: Gordon Joly 
cc: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Re: Not SPARC 5 Audio.
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Oct 94 11:39:46 PDT." <94Oct26.121439pdt.14407(4)@alpha.xerox.com>
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 (#2)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:56:49 PDT
Sender: Ron Frederick 
From: Ron Frederick 
Message-Id: <94Oct26.125652pdt.16138@ecco.parc.xerox.com>

In message <94Oct26.121439pdt.14407(4)@alpha.xerox.com> you write:
> 
> nv under Solaris 2.4 with Sunvideo card.
> 
> The produces a blank image. Anybody else seen this?
> 
There's some code in nv which tries to take advantage of a new "YUYV" mode
being provided by Solaris 2.4. Unfortunately, the support for this was still
somewhat in flux when the code was written, and it looks like the final version
which will appear in 2.4 (which isn't officially released yet, BTW) is not
the same as the version available when nv was frozen. It will probably take
a patch to nv 3.3beta to make it happy again -- I'm trying to put that
together now.
--
Ron Frederick
frederick@parc.xerox.com


From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Oct 27 11:19:24 1994 
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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 08:18:51 PDT
From: rsn@spl42.spl.loral.com (Richard S Neale)
Message-Id: <9410271518.AA01160@spl42.spl.loral.com>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: MBONE setup questions


  My goal,  to present / demo MBONE to a group of division technical heads using
  MBONE Thursday Nov 3.

  Q:  Must I schedule / notify the net of SITE use?

  Q:  Can I create a MBONE demo in a closed network ( no access to Internet?  I ask
      this question because when I create a sd session, I get an Address
      of 224.2.180.234.  What is this address?

  I have 'vat', 'nv' and 'sd' running with a 'ipmulti' modified kernel.

  Q:  I do not get any display of public broadcasts when events are occuring in 'sd'.

  Q:  When I create a session in 'sd', how widespread is that notification?
      I can see it ( the session ) from a second node on my subnet but can others,
      outside, see it?

  Q:  If there is a participant I wish to include but who is not in my subnet, how
      do I get his 'sd' to see my session.

  Q:  Is there a man page for sd?  Do I not have to indicate a site to connect to
      if I am not tunneling?  What other switches are there?

  Q:  Who does one contact to get permission to tunnel so they will put you in
      their /etc/mrouted.conf configuration file?

  Q:  Can one determine, by some tool, what node to access / contact that has
      the least number of hops in establishing a tunnel. 
      
  Q:  By allowing tunneling, am I presenting a security risk to my network.

  Q:  Is there an application that will allow be to run an application on a node
      and have it echo'ed to other nodes?  Example, during the MBONE demo, I wish
      to demo Mosaic.

Richard Neale
rsn@spl1.spl.loral.com

From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 28 03:07:51 1994 
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Date: Fri 28 Oct 94 00:06:08 PDT
From: Stephen Casner 
Subject: Re: MBONE setup questions
To: rsn@spl42.spl.loral.com, rem-conf@es.net
Message-Id: <783327968.0.CASNER@XFR.ISI.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <9410271518.AA01160@spl42.spl.loral.com>
Mail-System-Version: 

rsn@spl42.spl.loral.com (Richard S Neale) wrote:

> My goal, to present / demo MBONE to a group of division technical
> heads using MBONE Thursday Nov 3.

> Q: Must I schedule / notify the net of SITE use?

If by "SITE" you mean that you will be using a session defined in sd
with the Scope set to "Site", then the traffic should be contained
within your site and you may send whatever you please without
notifying "the net".

> Q: Can I create a MBONE demo in a closed network ( no access to
> Internet?

If your site is not connected to the Internet (and therefore not to
the MBONE either), then certainly there is not requirement to notify
others.  Yes, you can do a demo on your closed network using the
"MBONE tools" (vat, nv, sd, etc.).  It would not be a demo of the
worldwide MBONE network itself, though.

> I ask this question because when I create a sd session, I
> get an Address of 224.2.180.234.  What is this address?

This is a randomly allocated multicast group address.  Read RFC 1112.

> Q: I do not get any display of public broadcasts when events are
> occuring in 'sd'.

If you are isolated from the Internet (and therefore the MBONE), this
should not be a surprise.

> Q: When I create a session in 'sd', how widespread is that
> notification?  I can see it ( the session ) from a second node on my
> subnet but can others, outside, see it?

If you are isolated, then of course nobody else will see it.  If you
are connected to the MBONE, and assuming that the tunnel from you site
to the rest of the MBONE uses the typical TTL threshold value of 64,
then if you use Scope = Site nobody else will see your notification
because it will be sent with TTL 16 so it will not go over the tunnel.

> Q: If there is a participant I wish to include but who is not in my
> subnet, how do I get his 'sd' to see my session.

If you are talking about another subnet within your campus, then you
must have a multicast router set up between the subnets.  If you are
talking about someone at another site, then you must set the scope on
the sd session to be large enough to get by the threshold (e.g. 64) on
your tunnel.  But from your comments above, it sounded like you were
not connected to the Internet and had no tunnel.

> Q: Is there a man page for sd?

Only the readme file.

> Do I not have to indicate a site to connect to if I am not
> tunneling?

Can't be done.  sd works only with multicast.  You can start the tools
manually with unicast addresses, or you could use mmcc to set up the
call (ftp://ftp.isi.edu/confctrl/mmcc/).

> Q: Who does one contact to get permission to tunnel so they will put
> you in their /etc/mrouted.conf configuration file?

Contact your network service provider to find out if they provide
MBone tunnels.  From traceroute, it looks like yours is BARRNet.  They
have in the past provided this service, but recently I've heard that
they declined new requests.

> Q: Can one determine, by some tool, what node to access / contact
> that has the least number of hops in establishing a tunnel.

I don't know of a tool other than traceroute.

> Q: By allowing tunneling, am I presenting a security risk to my
> network.

If your site has a firewall, and you allow the multicast tunnel to go
through the firewall, then yes you are presenting some security risk.
Some other sites have deemed it an acceptable risk.

> Q: Is there an application that will allow be to run an application
> on a node and have it echo'ed to other nodes?  Example, during the
> MBONE demo, I wish to demo Mosaic.

To answer the general question, something like Shared X is one
solution, although not widely available.  For the specific case of
Mosaic, there is some work in progress on multicast versions, but I
have not heard of any releases.

You sure ask a lot of questions.
							-- Steve
-------

From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 28 06:39:41 1994 
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          id <28960-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 28 Oct 1994 03:39:17 +0000
Received: from speedy.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP 
          id ; Fri, 28 Oct 1994 10:38:09 +0000
To: Stephen Casner 
Cc: rsn@spl42.spl.loral.com, rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Re: MBONE setup questions
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Oct 94 00:06:08 PDT." <783327968.0.CASNER@XFR.ISI.EDU>
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 10:38:04 +0000
From: Roy Bennett 

 .
 lots deleted
 .
 .
 >
 >> Q: Is there a man page for sd?
 >
 >Only the readme file.
 >

For the benefit of others seeking basic info on the multicast tools
the MICE project has done some documentation work and the results are
in our web server
	URL http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/mice-nsc/index.html
under manuals.
 .
 .
 lots deleted
 .
 .
 >
 >You sure ask a lot of questions.
 >							-- Steve
 >-------

He sure does.........
but at least he _does_ ask



Roy
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy Bennett                             Email: rbennett@cs.ucl.ac.uk
MICE National Support Centre                   mice-nsc@cs.ucl.ac.uk
University College London               Phone: +44 71 380 7777 x3683
Gower Street, LONDON WC1E 6BT           Fax:   +44 71 387 1397
---------------------------------------------------------------------


From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 28 06:55:18 1994 
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          id <29020-0@osi-west.es.net>; Fri, 28 Oct 1994 03:52:29 +0000
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From: cr@cs.strath.ac.uk
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 10:51:07 GMT
Message-Id: <9410281051.AA07851@todd.cs.strath.ac.uk>
Date-Received: Fri, 28 Oct 94 10:51:07 GMT
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: MBONE / IP Multicast questions

Hi everybody,



Please excuse my ignorance, but I do have a couple of questions

regarding IP Multicast and the MBONE. We are not connected to the

MBONE, nor do we have IP Multicast (yet), so I haven't had a chance

to check out the various tools that are available.



Suppose I have a workstation with audio and video input, and I wish

to send the streams over the MBONE (scope irrelevant for this question).

Can I obtain two different multicast addresses for the two streams, or

will they have to be the same (because the streams originate from the

same machine with possibly only one ethernet card)?



Conversely, if I use a workstation and know of several sessions,

am I able to 'listen' to more than one (eg. a voice stream coming

>from X, and a video stream coming from Y)? In other words, can I receive

two or more different multicast addresses?



What I am really getting at is conferencing - how would one set up

a conference (small scale, no more than 20) where each party contributes

at least voice, possibly video. Any tools out there to do this? If not,

is it because it is too difficult/impossible? As I said - I am well aware

of the existence of vat, nv, etc., but have never seen them in action...



I have read (with great interest) the work on PIM which is much more

suited for 'sparse mode' multicasting than the current MBONE - will

this development have a significant impact on how the currently available

tools work or is it transparent to them?







Thanks for listening,





Chris



+-----------------------------------------------------------------+

|Chris Reid                            e-mail: cr@cs.strath.ac.uk |

|Dept. Computer Science, Strathclyde University, Glasgow, Scotland|

+-----------------------------------------------------------------+


From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 28 10:42:18 1994 
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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 13:28:57 +0000 (GMT)
From: Graeme Wood 
Reply-To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.edinburgh.ac.uk
To: cr@cs.strath.ac.uk
Cc: rem-conf@es.net, mice-nsc-scotland@edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: Re: MBONE / IP Multicast questions
In-Reply-To: <9410281051.AA07851@todd.cs.strath.ac.uk>
Message-Id: 
X-Department: "Unix Systems Support, Computing Services"
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On Fri, 28 Oct 1994 cr@cs.strath.ac.uk wrote:

> Please excuse my ignorance, but I do have a couple of questions
> regarding IP Multicast and the MBONE. We are not connected to the
> MBONE, nor do we have IP Multicast (yet), so I haven't had a chance
> to check out the various tools that are available.

You *are* connected to the MBONE or at least your Computing Center is,
though I note that their tunnel is currently marked as down.

> Suppose I have a workstation with audio and video input, and I wish
> to send the streams over the MBONE (scope irrelevant for this question).
> Can I obtain two different multicast addresses for the two streams, or
> will they have to be the same (because the streams originate from the
> same machine with possibly only one ethernet card)?

Yes you can get two separate multicast addresses for the audio and
video. You can use as many multicast addresses (bind to multicast
groups) as you wish (though there will be some limit).

> Conversely, if I use a workstation and know of several sessions,
> am I able to 'listen' to more than one (eg. a voice stream coming
> from X, and a video stream coming from Y)? In other words, can I receive
> two or more different multicast addresses?

Yes, conversely, you can bind to as many multicast groups as you wish
and receive the traffic from them.

> What I am really getting at is conferencing - how would one set up
> a conference (small scale, no more than 20) where each party contributes
> at least voice, possibly video. Any tools out there to do this? If not,
> is it because it is too difficult/impossible? As I said - I am well aware
> of the existence of vat, nv, etc., but have never seen them in action...

Well you have almost answered your own question.  You would use sd, the
Session Directory tool (or something like it) to create a session
announcement for your conference which would fire up vat/nv/wb/nevot/ivs
sessions on the participants machines when they joined the conference. 

> I have read (with great interest) the work on PIM which is much more
> suited for 'sparse mode' multicasting than the current MBONE - will
> this development have a significant impact on how the currently available
> tools work or is it transparent to them?

It should not have any affect on how the tools themselves operate (as
far as I am aware - correct me if I am wrong), it will only affect how
the routing of the multicast between routers is handled.

More information can be obtained from your local MICE NSC (me and dept. 
of psychology at Glasgow).  Contact information is provided below in the
signature. 

=============================================================================
Graeme Wood                                 Email: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
Unix Systems Support                        Phone: +44 131 650 5003
The University of Edinburgh                 Fax:   +44 131 650 6552
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scottish MICE National Support Centre       Email: mice-nsc-scotland@ed.ac.uk
for your multimedia conferencing support    WWW:   http://mice.ed.ac.uk/mice/
=============================================================================


From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Oct 28 12:42:44 1994 
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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 09:42:08 PDT
From: rsn@spl42.spl.loral.com (Richard S Neale)
Message-Id: <9410281642.AA00769@spl42.spl.loral.com>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Re: MBONE setup questions



Thanks to:

  Roy Bennett           rbennett@cs.ucl.ac.uk
  Stephen Casner        casner@ISI.EDU
  Martin Hamilton       martin@mrrl.lut.ac.uk

  For their responses.

goto DELETE_TO_HERE

  Yes, there were alot of questions that had been piling up over
  the past few weeks in my attempts to get multicasting up.  The
  frustrating thing was that I was having difficulty interperting
  what I was finding in the different documents.

  Most significant, I could not see the public broadcasts that were
  mentioned in this e-mail group.  The answer is, you must get a tunnel.

>> Q: Who does one contact to get permission to tunnel so they will put
>> you in their /etc/mrouted.conf configuration file?

> Contact your network service provider to find out if they provide
> MBone tunnels.  From traceroute, it looks like yours is BARRNet.  They
> have in the past provided this service, but recently I've heard that
> they declined new requests.

  This is a shame.  I contacted BARRNet last nite and was advised to
  make my request via email to noc@barrnet.net.  Having done that, I am
  awaiting a response.

  I notice that there are more nubie questions on what I was seeing
  as a very intellectual/experienced e-mailer group.  This prompts the
  question, should there be a rem-conf-nubie@es.net?  Probably not because
  you all have been so gracious in your responces, but I was a little worried
  of being flamed to death. -}
  
  Steve, sorry I confused the issues by combining open and closed
  networks.  I have two to work with and the address displayed in 'sd'
  which I now know is:

> This is a randomly allocated multicast group address.  Read RFC 1112.

  Created an impression that I could not do a closed network.  I now
  know better.

DELETE_TO_HERE:

Q:  I am having problems launching 'wb' from 'sd'.  I get an error
    which remarks that the perameters are incorrect for 'wb'.  The 'vat'
    launchs correctly.  Any ideas?

  And as a last question/comment...

Q:  Is is possible to design 'sd' such that I need only provide an address
    to what is now a remote tunnel site rather than the setup of 'mrouted'.

    I frame this question from the prospective of a end-site/user/LISTENER
    to allow a faster configuration of 'sd' to public broadcasts.  Obviously
    to transmit, 'mrouted' is required, but for the VAST net community,
    listening will be the extent of there use.

    Media on Demand is an example which does not need 'mrouted'

    It would go along way, as TIA ( The Internet Access ), to reducing
    administrative intervention and possibley increase adoption of this
    protocol.

Richard Neale
rsn@spl1.spl.loral.com