From rem-conf Sun Feb 01 05:06:45 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 01 05:06:44 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0xyyt1-0000vK-00; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 04:52:35 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOCALTEC From: "Ron Kalian" To: rem-conf@es.net Message-ID: <4225659E.004538A5.00@il4.vocaltec.co.il> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:51:40 +0200 Subject: Redundant RTP and RTCP octet count Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hi, I've got a point that is not quite clear by existing documents (RFC2198 'RTP Payload for Redundant Audio Data' and the RTP/RTCP spec): When sending a redundant RTP audio stream, RTCP produces sender and receiver reports (SR and RR) containing a 'sender's/receiver's octet count' field. The definition of this field (by the RTP/RTCP spec) is: sender's octet count: 32 bits The total number of payload octets (i.e., not including header or padding) transmitted in RTP data packets by the sender since starting transmission up until the time this SR packet was generated. The count is reset if the sender changes its SSRC identifier. This field can be used to estimate the average payload data rate. The same definition applies to both SR and RR. The question is whether the 'total number of payload octets' refers to 1. BOTH the redundant and non-redundant portions of the redundant RTP stream, OR 2. Just to the non-redundant part of redundant RTP stream? The RTP/RTCP spec does not mention redundancy at all. RFC2198, on the other hand, does not mention RTCP at all! Maybe this is a 'hole' in the specs? Ron Kalian. _________________________________ Ron Kalian Program Manager VocalTec Communications Ltd. Phone: ++972-9-9525852 Email: ron@vocaltec.com _________________________________ Visit us at CeBIT 98' Hannover Messe March 19 - 25, 1998 From rem-conf Mon Feb 02 15:23:21 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Feb 02 15:23:20 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0xzUsj-0002zX-00; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:02:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:02:20 -0700 (MST) From: "C. Philip Wood" Message-Id: <199802022302.QAA12463@snow-white.lanl.gov> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: President Clinton's Visit To Los Alamos National Laboratory X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Folks, President Clinton will be visiting Los Alamos National Laboratory Tuesday, February 3, 1998. He will deliver a speech Tuesday morning around 11:30 a.m. Possible topics are: * global climate modeling * transportation system modeling * education outreach efforts * weapons simulation Some of the activities will be transmitted live on the Mbone. The relevant entry in SDR is: President Clinton's Visit to LANL Live Internet coverage will also be available via the Web. See: http://www.lanl.gov/external/ For more information on Los Alamos National Laboratory science areas see http://www.lanl.gov/external/science/subjects/ Thanks, Phil From rem-conf Tue Feb 03 17:10:51 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Feb 03 17:10:50 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0xztA8-0002jU-00; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:58:00 -0800 From: rameshn@lucent.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 98 19:04:50 EST Original-From: ramesh@hoserve.ho.lucent.com Message-Id: <9802040004.AA04910@hopaw33> To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: INFOCOM'98 - CALL FOR PARTICIPATION X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list INFOCOM'98 Gateway to the 21st Century Hotel Nikko, San Francisco, CA, 29 March - 2 April 1998. INFOCOM is back in San Francisco again and is an event not to be missed. Its technical program of tutorials, panels, and technical sessions will not only cover traditional networking topics, but also introduce numerous new areas. A set of three full day and four half-day tutorials (Mar. 29-30) precede the main conference and will provide a comprehensive treatment of some of the most important aspects of networking including: . Access technologies . Broadband Satellite Networks . Multicast protocols . Network Security . Network pricing . Quality-of-Service . Transport protocols The tutorials will be followed by a densely packed three days of technical sessions. Starting with the keynote speech by Dr. Alan Baratz, President of Sun Microsystems' JavaSoft business unit, on "Wrap and Embrace: How the Java (TM) Technology Changes Everything", attendees will be exposed to a major new trend in the networking industry, and get a first hand view from one of the industry's visionary on how Java may impact what networks do and how they do it. This will be followed by a series of 43 sessions and three panels, that will span the latest research results and highlight new networking research areas. The 43 technical sessions consist of a total of 172 papers, that represent the outcome of an extremely rigorous and thorough review process. As a matter of fact, because of the record number (about 800) of papers submitted the technical program committee had the difficult task of selecting from a large number of outstanding papers. As a result, this is one of the strongest INFOCOM technical programs. In addition, it also one of the most diverse with over 30% of the papers originating from outside of North America. This diversity is also echoed in the range of topics being represented. They include not only traditional INFOCOM favorites such as Quality-of-Service, Switching, Routing, Optical Networks, Congestion Control, etc., but also many new topics such End-to-End Protocol Performance, Protocol Verification and Testing, Network Security, Management and Pricing, End Systems, and Web related studies. Two of the panels will take on key topics of much recent controversy. A panel on "Evolution of Internet and Telecommunications" will attempt to sort through the complex issues of who the future telecommunications providers will be and what services they will provide. A panel on "Active Networks - Hype or Next Big Thing" will bring together several distinguished researchers who will argue their own perspectives on what Active Networks are, and whether they truly represent a major new research initiative. The third panel will discuss technologies and architectures for next-generation "Broadband Wireless Networks". Some of the questions that will be asked include whether the QoS guarantees of wired networks can truly be extended over wireless networks, and whether ubiquitous and seamless mobility is indeed an achievable goal. Overall, INFOCOM will help you broaden your understanding of networking, provide you with access to the latest research results, and let you interact with a unique crowd of professionals from the field of networking at large. Detailed information on the INFOCOM'98 program including dates/times, registration, hotel, San Francisco information and much more can be found on the world-wide web at: WWW URL: http://www.comsoc.org/~infocom98 Please note that the ADVANCE REGISTRATION DEADLINE is 10 March and that secure on-line registration is available. Also, note that those wishing to obtain a HARD-COPY of the PROCEEDINGS (default is CD-ROM format) should indicate their desire (in registration form) before 16 February. In case of difficulties with web access, all registration questions should be directed to the Computer Society: IEEE Computer Society ATTN: INFOCOM '98 Registration Dept. 6006 Washington, DC 20042-6006 (202) 371-1013 Phone (202) 728-0884 FAX All other questions may be directed to: Ramesh Nagarajan Room 3M-318 Bell Labs Lucent Technologies 101 Crawfords Corner Road Holmdel, NJ 07733. (732)-949-2761 Phone (732)-834-5906 FAX Ramesh Nagarajan INFOCOM'98 Publicity. From rem-conf Wed Feb 04 01:21:22 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 04 01:21:21 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y00xM-0005Hp-00; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:17:20 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:02:14 +0200 Message-Id: <98020410021450@ps.uib.es> From: tools98@ps.uib.es To: END2END-INTEREST@isi.edu, IETF@isi.edu, F-TROUP@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, ICAD@santafe.edu, REM-CONF@es.net, TCCC@cs.umass.edu, FORTE94_CFP@admin.unibe.ch, COST237-WORKSHOP@comp.lancs.ac.uk, COST237-TRANSPORT@comp.lancs.ac.uk, OSIMCAST@bbn.com, SC6WG4@ntd.comsat.com, RERES@laas.fr, HIPPARCH@sophia.inria.fr, XTP-RELAY@cs.concordia.ca, CSWG%SUNOCO@relay.nswc.navy.mil, ATM-REQUEST@matmos.hpl.hp.com, UTF@cnri.reston.va.us Subject: TOOLS98 reminder. X-VMS-To: @EXPLODE.TXT X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list From rem-conf Wed Feb 04 19:33:51 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 04 19:33:50 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y0HpA-0003YS-00; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:18:00 -0800 From: Tom Zoerner Message-Id: <199802050317.EAA29060@faui01.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Subject: Re: FEC draft and timestamp recovery To: jdrosen@dnrc.bell-labs.com (Jonathan Rosenberg) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 04:17:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: <34CF7F6E.FE25517D@dnrc.bell-labs.com> from "Jonathan Rosenberg" at Jan 28, 98 01:56:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Jonathan Rosenberg wrote: > It seems there are a number of deficiencies as currently defined with > the current SN/TS method: > > 1. You cannot recover the TS of the packet, as you point out, which is > needed for playout. > 2. You must send the original media packets (systematic codes only), > eliminating some of the schemes in Budge's draft. > 3. In multicast, a non-FEC receiver will discard the FEC packets since > the PT are unknown. However, it will probably be confused, since it will > see gaps in the sequence number space, and think there is a loss of real > data. However, if it uses the timestamps to fill-in the required amount > of missing data, it will find that there are no gaps. This is a > consequence of the media sequence number space being "interrupted" by > FEC. > 4. There is no clean way to send the FEC on a separate multicast group. > This is because its SN space is intermingled with the media. If you send > the FEC on a separate group, its probably a good idea for it to have its > own SN space. > > I see several possible fixes: I like your fix #3 too for it's compatibility and scalability. However if used for layered codecs, with already 3 or more RTP streams, it gets a bit expensive. So piggy-backing or interleaving should definately still be supported. > 3. Require the FEC to always be sent as a separate stream. It uses its > own sequence number space. The FEC header contains an additional 16 bit > SN base field, which indicates the base that the mask is applied to. The > SN that the base/mask are referring to are those for the media packets. > The media packets are sent completely normally. The TS in the FEC > packets is set to the minimum TS of all packets it protects. We can also This could be a problem though. As I already described in my first mail, these timestamps can no longer be used for jitter calculation. With the earlier draft this was not a problem, since FEC packets inbetween the normal media packets could just be ignored, but if we want to tackle problem #2, we have to be prepared for FEC-only streams, i.e. the main stream would be empty and network jitter remain unknown. This problem could possibly be solved if the standard would demand that the packet's sending time is immediately after the last encoded packet was generated. One problem with this is that this time isn't known until all encoded packets are identified (fetched from the queue) and possibly their timestamps XORed to recover the timestamp of the last encoded packet. This is a huge overhead just for jitter calculation. I still think it would be the easiest way to simply use the timestamp of the last encoded packet. > add a 32 bit TS reconstruction field into the FEC header, which is the > xor of the TS in the media packets. This seems to solve all four > problems above. It should also work well for RTP compression, since this > way the FEC appear as a separate context. You can even still include the > FEC data piggybacked onto the media using the redundant codec payload > format, if you like. The draft should probably say something about port allocation for FEC streams, especially in combination with layered codecs. In that case port n+2 is already reserved for the next layer. Also some schemes need to transmit additional parameters, e.g. (n,k) for Reed-Solomon. I wouldn't know where to place them with the current draft. The solution for the initial problem that I'd wish for, is to use TS offsets for the mask instead of SN, i.e. define the meaning of the masks bits as bit k is set <=> there is an i with: TS[0] + (k+1) * ts-offset = TS[i] i=0..n-1; n=number of encoded packets TS[i]=timestamp of packet i; TS[0] is in the RTP header Note: since the TS in the RTP header is defined as the one of the oldest encoded packet, only positive offsets are possible. This would allow to solve problems #1,#2 and #4. (I think #3 isn't a real problem anyway, since receivers should be prepared to drop packets with unknown payload type) Addtional benefits are - decoding FEC much more efficient. The receiver knows the timestamp of the missing packet, but not its sequence number. - delay calculation easier: the masks would immediately tell the maximum offsets in the time domain. With SN masks you may use too large delays if there are gaps in the masks due to FEC packets inbetween. Of course there's one problem with this, although I don't know how big it is: this scheme does not work with variable frame lengths. With audio applications though, every frame usually covers 20ms or 40ms. But in case of variable lengths, the FEC packet header theoretically would have to include a list of all timestamp offsets. Maybe we could spare one bit in the header to tell if the mask refers to SN or TS offsets. In case of TS, the offset is the length of time any of the encoded packets covers (it's the same for all). In case of SN its 1, as before. An application could decide if it accepts SN or TS masks, or both. -tom From rem-conf Thu Feb 05 07:43:24 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Feb 05 07:43:23 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y0TFf-0007Gp-00; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:30:07 -0800 Message-ID: <34D9DA83.11BF7D6F@dnrc.bell-labs.com> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:28:03 -0500 From: Jonathan Rosenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Zoerner CC: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: FEC draft and timestamp recovery References: <199802050317.EAA29060@faui01.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Tom Zoerner wrote: > > > > 3. Require the FEC to always be sent as a separate stream. It uses its > > own sequence number space. The FEC header contains an additional 16 bit > > SN base field, which indicates the base that the mask is applied to. The > > SN that the base/mask are referring to are those for the media packets. > > The media packets are sent completely normally. The TS in the FEC > > packets is set to the minimum TS of all packets it protects. We can also > > This could be a problem though. As I already described in my first mail, > these timestamps can no longer be used for jitter calculation. With the > earlier draft this was not a problem, since FEC packets inbetween the > normal media packets could just be ignored, but if we want to tackle > problem #2, we have to be prepared for FEC-only streams, i.e. the main > stream would be empty and network jitter remain unknown. > > This problem could possibly be solved if the standard would demand that the > packet's sending time is immediately after the last encoded packet was > generated. One problem with this is that this time isn't known until all > encoded packets are identified (fetched from the queue) and possibly their > timestamps XORed to recover the timestamp of the last encoded packet. > This is a huge overhead just for jitter calculation. I still think it > would be the easiest way to simply use the timestamp of the last encoded > packet. Having the TS of the last encoded packet doesn't seem to eliminate the problem of the jitter calculation being screwed up. Consider scheme 2 in budge's draft: f(a,b), f(a,c), f(a,b,c), f(c,d)... If the TS of a is 1, b is 2, c is 3, etc., the TS of this stream of FEC packets would be: 2,3,3,4,... Which, here, is monotonically increasing, but still not evenly spaced. Furthermore, one can construct schemes where the TS won't even be monotonically increasing. For example: f(a,b,c), f(a,b), f(a,c), f(b,c), f(d,e,f), f(d,e), f(d,f), f(e,f), ... This scheme protects against single packet losses. It may not be the best scheme, but I don't want to mandate what schemes people can use for FEC. For this one, the TS of the FEC packets would be: using TS of last media packet: 3,2,3,3,6,5,6,6.. using TS of first media packet: 1,1,1,2,4,4,4,5.. Neither of which is really useful. The only definition which would really make sense for jitter would be to set the TS in the FEC packet to the value of the media's RTP timestamp at the point in time when the FEC packet is actually sent. This would then allow jitter computations to be performed accurately for any scheme. > The draft should probably say something about port allocation for FEC > streams, especially in combination with layered codecs. In that case > port n+2 is already reserved for the next layer. Yes, good point. > > Also some schemes need to transmit additional parameters, e.g. (n,k) > for Reed-Solomon. I wouldn't know where to place them with the current > draft. The protocol is really meant for parity and Hamming codes. I would be happy to think about how it could be used for other codes, like Reed Solomon. Is (n,k) the ONLY additional piece of information you might need? > > The solution for the initial problem that I'd wish for, is to use TS offsets > for the mask instead of SN, i.e. define the meaning of the masks bits as > bit k is set <=> there is an i with: TS[0] + (k+1) * ts-offset = TS[i] > i=0..n-1; n=number of encoded packets > TS[i]=timestamp of packet i; TS[0] is in the RTP header > Note: since the TS in the RTP header is defined as the one of the oldest > encoded packet, only positive offsets are possible. > > This would allow to solve problems #1,#2 and #4. (I think #3 isn't a real > problem anyway, since receivers should be prepared to drop packets with > unknown payload type) I agree that these receivers will drop packets with unknown payload types. The problem is that after they do this, these receivers will see gaps in the SN space if the FEC packets and media packets share the same space. These receivers will then think there has been an actual media packet loss, and try to recover in some way. Thus, I do think this is a problem. Addtional benefits are > - decoding FEC much more efficient. The receiver knows the timestamp of > the missing packet, but not its sequence number. I would think having both would be nice. The approach (3) I mentioned in a prior email (having separate SN space for FEC and media, and having a TS recovery field) allows you to have both. > - delay calculation easier: the masks would immediately tell the maximum > offsets in the time domain. With SN masks you may use too large delays > if there are gaps in the masks due to FEC packets inbetween. With approach (3), the SN space of FEC and media packets are no longer intermingled. The result is that there will never be gaps in the masks due to FEC packets inbetween. Thus, with fixed frame sizes, the amount of history needed is easily computed from the SN based mask as well. > > Of course there's one problem with this, although I don't know how big > it is: this scheme does not work with variable frame lengths. With audio > applications though, every frame usually covers 20ms or 40ms. But in > case of variable lengths, the FEC packet header theoretically would have > to include a list of all timestamp offsets. Well, it would be nice if the scheme didn't rule out variable frame sizes. I think its important to make the FEC scheme as media-independent as possible. There's an additional problem with the TS approach - silence periods. Lets say FEC is applied across two packets, one at the end of a talkspurt, and the next in the beginning of the next talkspurt. The gap in time between these two can be huge, so that if each bit in the TS mask indicates a fixed period of time, the mask would need to be very large to express this. However, the gap in SN space is just 1, so that there is no problem. Doing FEC across talkspurts is probably not a great idea, but a simple-minded transmitter that just takes packets in and blindly applies the FEC might do this. > > Maybe we could spare one bit in the header to tell if the mask refers > to SN or TS offsets. In case of TS, the offset is the length of time > any of the encoded packets covers (it's the same for all). In case of > SN its 1, as before. An application could decide if it accepts SN or > TS masks, or both. I'd rather not make it more complicated than it needs to be. We should do one or the other. Thanks, -Jonathan R. -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg Lucent Technologies Member of Technical Staff 101 Crawfords Corner Rd. High Speed Networks Research Holmdel, NJ 07733 PHONE: (732) 949-6418 Rm. 4C-526 FAX: (732) 834-5379 EMAIL: jdrosen@bell-labs.com URL: http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen From rem-conf Thu Feb 05 23:58:18 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Feb 05 23:58:18 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y0iRz-0005cT-00; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:43:51 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:40:45 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: Michael Speer Reply-To: Michael Speer Subject: Suggestion for draft-ietf-avt-rtp-h263-video-01.txt To: rem-conf@es.net cc: speer@Eng.Sun.COM Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Folks: In the last few days, I have been attempting to map rfc2190's h.263 payload encapsulation to the h.263+ specification since h.263+ is a subset of h.263. I think it would be entirely appropriate to add an appendix to the h.263+ payload specification to layout how to do this mapping. What do others think? I would be happy to help contribute to such an appendix. Thanks, Michael F. Speer Sun Microsystems, Inc. From rem-conf Fri Feb 06 01:45:01 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 06 01:45:00 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y0kIB-0006wQ-00; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 01:41:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199802060941.KAA22497@basil.cdt.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Henning Schulzrinne cc: rem-conf@es.net, mates@basil.cdt.luth.se Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:42:53 EST." <34B11B9D.1A7E1330@cs.columbia.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 10:41:29 +0100 From: Peter Parnes X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hi I have yet another proposal for a new SDES type in RTP, a 'nick-name' field. The purpose of this nick-name is to be used where shorter names are needed in applications that are based solely on the light membership information dissemination provided by RTP. I can think of at least two applications that have use for this, chat-applications where each text-line is prepended with a short name and remote pointers with name-tags in whiteboard applications where once again a short name are important to not kludge up the the displayed area. An alternative is to use the user-name in the CNAME field but that unfortunately has proven to be a problem within companies and universities that use predefined schemes for 'calculating' new names. it is also a problem with WindowsNT as most users run as the administrator user (Hey Microsoft, why is this a problem? ;-) and not as a normal user with a normal user name. This could of course once again be solved in the application specific part but I think that there are more than one application that would benefit from this new SDES type. Any opinions? /P From rem-conf Fri Feb 06 08:13:59 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 06 08:13:58 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y0qFh-0001Jg-00; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:03:41 -0800 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 17:02:01 +0100 From: Marco Di Benedetto Subject: Errata corrige about RTP To: rem-conf@es.net Cc: schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu Message-id: <1.5.4.32.19980206160201.00672450@cclix1.polito.it> Old-X-Envelope-to: rem-conf@es.net MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Sender: s80530@cclix1.polito.it X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list I was reading draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.ps. At page 20 (par. 6.3.1) I have found: "1. If there are any senders (senders>0) in the session, but the number of senders is less than 25% of the membership...". But what about if the number of senders is greater than 25% of the membership? At page 20 (par 6.3) is showed a list of variables to mantain the state for a participant. Perhaps the variable 'avg_rtcp_size' has a wrong name: at page 21 (par. 6.3.2, row 2 of the paragraph) is used the name 'avg_pkt_sz', at page 22 (par. 6.3.3, rows 5 and 6 from the beginning of the page) the name for this variable is 'avg_rtcp_sz'. At page 21 (par. 6.3.2) it is a duplication for the initialization of the variable 'initial': at row 1 'initial=1' and at row 2 'initial=true' Thank you. P.S.: I'm looking for some "numbers" about RTP: i.e. I'd know if somewhere exist tables with comparison of RTP over different protocols (like IPv6 with or without flow label, or directly over ATM). Do you know someone that is trying RTP in those cases? ************************************************************ - Sono stato un mese in coma. - Beato te che sei sempre in giro! ************************************************************ Marco Di Benedetto E-Mail m.diben@cclix1.polito.it Home page: http://cclix1.polito.it/~s80530/ From rem-conf Fri Feb 06 09:04:08 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 06 09:04:07 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y0r6N-0002Fi-00; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:58:07 -0800 To: Ron Kalian cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Redundant RTP and RTCP octet count In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Feb 1998 14:51:40 +0200." <4225659E.004538A5.00@il4.vocaltec.co.il> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 16:57:01 +0000 Message-ID: <13336.886784221@cs.ucl.ac.uk> From: Colin Perkins X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list --> Ron Kalian writes: > >Hi, > >I've got a point that is not quite clear by existing documents (RFC2198 >'RTP Payload for Redundant Audio Data' and the RTP/RTCP spec): > >When sending a redundant RTP audio stream, RTCP produces sender and >receiver reports (SR and RR) containing a 'sender's/receiver's octet count' >field. The definition of this field (by the RTP/RTCP spec) is: > > sender's octet count: 32 bits > The total number of payload octets (i.e., not including header > or padding) transmitted in RTP data packets by the sender since > starting transmission up until the time this SR packet was > generated. The count is reset if the sender changes its SSRC > identifier. This field can be used to estimate the average > payload data rate. > >The same definition applies to both SR and RR. > >The question is whether the 'total number of payload octets' refers to >1. BOTH the redundant and non-redundant portions of the redundant RTP >stream, OR >2. Just to the non-redundant part of redundant RTP stream? >The RTP/RTCP spec does not mention redundancy at all. RFC2198, on the >other hand, does not mention RTCP at all! Maybe this is a 'hole' in the >specs? In our implementation, it applies to both the redundant and non-redundant portions of the stream. This is consistent with the other payload formats where the entire data contents of the RTP packet are used to calculate the octet count. Maybe this is something which should be clarified in a future revision of the RFC2198? -- Colin Perkins Email: c.perkins@cs.ucl.ac.uk Department of Computer Science Phone: (+44) 171 419 3666 University College London WWW : http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/c.perkins/ From rem-conf Fri Feb 06 11:01:59 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 06 11:01:59 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y0slH-0003I6-00; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 10:44:27 -0800 From: "Stephan Wenger" To: "Michael Speer" , Cc: Subject: Re: Suggestion for draft-ietf-avt-rtp-h263-video-01.txt Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 10:51:54 -0800 Message-ID: <01bd3330$4b38c3a0$32df5289@Tectra.ee.ubc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Michael, H.263+ is a superset of H.263 and not a subset. It offers a couple of new optional mode for improving coding efficiency and also some new error resilience mechanisms, which need support by the RTP payload spec. For this reason, we (people from Intel and two German universities) proposed a new payload specification and presented the Internet draft of that specification both in Muenchen and Washington. It might turn out, that this specification, once adopted, is a replacement of rfc 2190. If you want to use H.263+ on the Internet, I strongly recommend to build your system based on that new spec. You might want to take a look at draft-ietf-avt-rtp-h263-video-01.txt Regards Stephan -----Original Message----- From: Michael Speer To: rem-conf@es.net Cc: speer@Eng.Sun.COM Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 12:25 AM Subject: Suggestion for draft-ietf-avt-rtp-h263-video-01.txt > >Folks: > >In the last few days, I have been attempting to map rfc2190's h.263 >payload encapsulation to the h.263+ specification since h.263+ is a subset of >h.263. I think it would be entirely appropriate to add an appendix to the >h.263+ payload specification to layout how to do this mapping. What do >others think? I would be happy to help contribute to such an appendix. > >Thanks, >Michael F. Speer >Sun Microsystems, Inc. > > From rem-conf Fri Feb 06 11:31:38 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 06 11:31:37 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y0tOr-0004Dk-00; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:25:21 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:24:43 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: Michael Speer Reply-To: Michael Speer Subject: Re: Suggestion for draft-ietf-avt-rtp-h263-video-01.txt To: Stephan Wenger cc: Michael Speer , rem-conf@es.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list I meant to say h263 is a subset of h263+. It was late at night when I wrote the message. Having said that, do think it would be possible to generate a mapping of h.263 payloads to h263+ payloads. Thanks, Michael >Michael, > >H.263+ is a superset of H.263 and not a subset. It offers a couple of new >optional mode for improving coding efficiency and also some new >error resilience mechanisms, which need support by the RTP payload spec. > >For this reason, we (people from Intel and two German universities) proposed >a new payload specification and presented the Internet draft of that >specification >both in Muenchen and Washington. It might turn out, that this >specification, >once adopted, is a replacement of rfc 2190. > >If you want to use H.263+ on the Internet, I strongly recommend to build >your >system based on that new spec. You might want to take a look at >draft-ietf-avt-rtp-h263-video-01.txt > >Regards > >Stephan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Michael Speer >To: rem-conf@es.net >Cc: speer@Eng.Sun.COM >Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 12:25 AM >Subject: Suggestion for draft-ietf-avt-rtp-h263-video-01.txt > > >> >>Folks: >> >>In the last few days, I have been attempting to map rfc2190's h.263 >>payload encapsulation to the h.263+ specification since h.263+ is a subset >of >>h.263. I think it would be entirely appropriate to add an appendix to the >>h.263+ payload specification to layout how to do this mapping. What do >>others think? I would be happy to help contribute to such an appendix. >> >>Thanks, >>Michael F. 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Please allow 1-2 week for checks, 24 hours for money orders or certified checks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rem-conf Sat Feb 07 08:55:19 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sat Feb 07 08:55:18 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1DRC-0005YH-00; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 08:49:06 -0800 Sender: hgs@cs.columbia.edu Message-ID: <34DC9066.9A45B837@cs.columbia.edu> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 11:48:38 -0500 From: Henning Schulzrinne Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Computer Science X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Parnes CC: rem-conf@es.net, mates@basil.cdt.luth.se Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps References: <199802060941.KAA22497@basil.cdt.luth.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Peter Parnes wrote: > > Hi > > I have yet another proposal for a new SDES type in RTP, a 'nick-name' field. > The purpose of this nick-name is to be used where shorter names are needed in > applications that are based solely on the light membership information > dissemination provided by RTP. What is the difference to the NAME SDES item currently defined in RTP? Couldn't you derive a suitable name from that? From rem-conf Sat Feb 07 08:59:11 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sat Feb 07 08:59:09 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1DYl-0005gr-00; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 08:56:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199802071656.RAA12006@basil.cdt.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Henning Schulzrinne cc: rem-conf@es.net, mates@basil.cdt.luth.se Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Feb 1998 11:48:38 EST." <34DC9066.9A45B837@cs.columbia.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 17:56:46 +0100 From: Peter Parnes X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu said: > What is the difference to the NAME SDES item currently defined in RTP? > Couldn't you derive a suitable name from that? The obvious thing is to take the first part (up to the first white-space) of the NAME SDES but unfortunately people tend to usually have nick-names. For instance, everyone calls me 'Peppar' but my name is Peter Parnes and it looks really strange in for instance our chat-tool if all my input is prepended with 'Peter' instead of 'Peppar'. But if you think it is inappropriate with a SDES NICK we'll just put it in the app-specific field instead. I just thought it was cleaner to have a specific SDES type (and we aren't exactly running out of type numbers here, still another 247 free :-). /P From rem-conf Sat Feb 07 09:36:41 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sat Feb 07 09:36:41 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1E8i-0006qD-00; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:34:04 -0800 From: Mark Handley X-Organisation: Information Sciences Institute, USC X-Phone: +1 617 253 6011 To: Peter Parnes cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Feb 1998 17:56:46 +0100." <199802071656.RAA12006@basil.cdt.luth.se> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 12:33:56 -0500 Message-ID: <9705.886872836@north.lcs.mit.edu> Sender: mjh@north.lcs.mit.edu X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list >schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu said: >> What is the difference to the NAME SDES item currently defined in RTP? >> Couldn't you derive a suitable name from that? > >The obvious thing is to take the first part (up to the first white-space) of >the NAME SDES but unfortunately people tend to usually have nick-names. For >instance, everyone calls me 'Peppar' but my name is Peter Parnes and it looks >really strange in for instance our chat-tool if all my input is prepended with >'Peter' instead of 'Peppar'. Not all nationalities put the family name at the end, so taking everything up to the first whitespace is not a good algorithm. I would say a nick-name field might be a good idea. I can think of lots of occasions where it would be useful to be able to correctly get a short-form name. I don't imagine every app would use it, but in NTE for example, I needed a short form name to label the pens and other pointers with. NTE didn't use RTP, but I'm sure we'll see similar apps that do. I also find myself wondering whether an ORGANIZATION field would be a good idea, given that most of us currently overload the NAME field with our name and organization (eg: "Mark Handley (ISI)"). Cheers, Mark From rem-conf Sat Feb 07 09:39:16 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sat Feb 07 09:39:16 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1EDO-00073k-00; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:38:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199802071738.SAA13554@basil.cdt.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Mark Handley cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Feb 1998 12:33:56 EST." <9705.886872836@north.lcs.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 18:38:44 +0100 From: Peter Parnes X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list mjh@east.isi.edu said: > I also find myself wondering whether an ORGANIZATION field would be a > good idea, given that most of us currently overload the NAME field > with our name and organization (eg: "Mark Handley (ISI)"). Sounds like a very good idea. Very few persons I have seen on the MBone actually use the NAME for only just the name. /P From rem-conf Sat Feb 07 10:12:05 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sat Feb 07 10:12:04 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1Eg7-0000GG-00; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:08:35 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 19:08:27 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802071808.TAA03539@dienstmann.informatik.uni-bremen.de> From: Carsten Bormann To: Mark Handley Cc: Peter Parnes , rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps In-Reply-To: <9705.886872836@north.lcs.mit.edu> References: <199802071656.RAA12006@basil.cdt.luth.se> <9705.886872836@north.lcs.mit.edu> X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Mark Handley writes: > I would say a nick-name field might be a good idea. I can think of > lots of occasions where it would be useful to be able to correctly get > a short-form name. Many organizations (at least in Germany) also have official shorthand names for their members -- I sign off internal documents with "cabo" (which also happens to be my login name). Is this the same thing you guys are calling nick-name? These shorthand names sure would make good telepointer labels. Gruesse, Carsten From rem-conf Sat Feb 07 10:16:48 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sat Feb 07 10:16:47 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1EnV-0000VL-00; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:16:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199802071816.TAA14516@basil.cdt.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Carsten Bormann cc: Mark Handley , rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Feb 1998 19:08:27 +0100." <199802071808.TAA03539@dienstmann.informatik.uni-bremen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 19:16:02 +0100 From: Peter Parnes X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list cabo@Informatik.Uni-Bremen.DE said: > Is this the same thing you guys are calling nick-name? These shorthand > names sure would make good telepointer labels. Could be the same. I thing it is best left up to the user to decide on what nick-name to use, just as s/he enters his/her normal name, phone etc. /P From rem-conf Sat Feb 07 18:49:27 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sat Feb 07 18:49:25 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1Mdt-0003vz-00; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:38:49 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.16.19980207183320.3c0ffe8a@shell7.ba.best.com> X-Sender: rsf@shell7.ba.best.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (16) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 18:33:20 To: Peter Parnes From: Ross Finlayson Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps Cc: Henning Schulzrinne , rem-conf@es.net, mates@basil.cdt.luth.se In-Reply-To: <199802060941.KAA22497@basil.cdt.luth.se> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list I'm a bit uncomfortable with the idea of adding more things to RTCP (even if they're optional), unless they're clearly relevant to session control and/or management. I can see how some applications might want to define a "nickname" field (& perhaps other attributes too) in their payload, but is this really needed in RTCP? One "acid test" we could apply in situations like this (when deciding whether a piece of information belongs in RTCP, or instead in the payload) is: If a participant is receive-only - i.e., is not sending any RTP data packets - then is it useful for other participants to be getting this information from the receive-only participant? If not, then the information probably doesn't belong in RTCP. Ross. From rem-conf Sun Feb 08 07:22:49 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 08 07:22:46 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1YR3-0000T8-00; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 07:14:21 -0800 Message-ID: <34DDC825.AFC78E26@dnrc.bell-labs.com> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 09:58:45 -0500 From: Jonathan Rosenberg Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ross Finlayson CC: Peter Parnes , Henning Schulzrinne , rem-conf@es.net, mates@basil.cdt.luth.se Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps References: <3.0.5.16.19980207183320.3c0ffe8a@shell7.ba.best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Ross Finlayson wrote: > One "acid test" we could apply in situations like this (when deciding > whether a piece of information belongs in RTCP, or instead in the payload) is: > If a participant is receive-only - i.e., is not sending any RTP data > packets - then is it useful for other participants to be getting this > information from the receive-only participant? If not, then the > information probably doesn't belong in RTCP. One could mandate that this SDES item appear only in RTCP packets from senders.. -Jonathan R. -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg Lucent Technologies Member of Technical Staff 101 Crawfords Corner Rd. High Speed Networks Research Holmdel, NJ 07733 PHONE: (908) 949-6418 Rm. 4D-534B FAX: (908) 834-5379 EMAIL: jdrosen@bell-labs.com URL: http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen From rem-conf Sun Feb 08 07:51:26 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 08 07:51:24 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1Yys-0000wJ-00; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 07:49:18 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOCALTEC From: "Scott Petrack" To: cabo@informatik.uni-bremen.de cc: mjh@east.isi.edu, peppar@cdt.luth.se, rem-conf@es.net Message-ID: <422565A5.0036ABF5.00@il4.vocaltec.co.il> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:11:59 +0200 Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list > I also find myself wondering whether an ORGANIZATION field would be a > good idea, given that most of us currently overload the NAME field > with our name and organization (eg: "Mark Handley (ISI)"). > I would say a nick-name field might be a good idea. I can think of > lots of occasions where it would be useful to be able to correctly get > a short-form name. These two fields can complement each other very well. In CMA we had a "CMA alias address" which was a nickname which resolved to some more canonical (and unique) identifier within a given organizational domain. The idea was that the nickname might not be globally unique, but the (nickname, organization) pair was meant to be unique within the organization. Scott From rem-conf Sun Feb 08 14:27:19 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 08 14:27:18 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1ewg-0003Hh-00; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:11:26 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.16.19980208140548.3c0fc80e@shell7.ba.best.com> X-Sender: rsf@shell7.ba.best.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (16) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 14:05:48 To: Jonathan Rosenberg From: Ross Finlayson Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps Cc: Peter Parnes , Henning Schulzrinne , rem-conf@es.net, mates@basil.cdt.luth.se In-Reply-To: <34DDC825.AFC78E26@dnrc.bell-labs.com> References: <3.0.5.16.19980207183320.3c0ffe8a@shell7.ba.best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list At 09:58 AM 2/8/98 -0500, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote: >Ross Finlayson wrote: > >> One "acid test" we could apply in situations like this (when deciding >> whether a piece of information belongs in RTCP, or instead in the payload) is: >> If a participant is receive-only - i.e., is not sending any RTP data >> packets - then is it useful for other participants to be getting this >> information from the receive-only participant? If not, then the >> information probably doesn't belong in RTCP. > >One could mandate that this SDES item appear only in RTCP packets from >senders.. Well, in that case, why not have this information appear in the senders' data packets? Why make it part of RTCP at all? That's exactly the point I was trying to make. I would hope that the RTCP SDES items that we define are restricted to those things that are truly useful for session monitoring/management. Maybe "nickname" falls into this category. But then again, maybe not... Ross. From rem-conf Sun Feb 08 15:07:55 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 08 15:07:53 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1flb-0003vb-00; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:04:03 -0800 Message-ID: <34DE3626.A0F84CC3@dnrc.bell-labs.com> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:48:06 -0500 From: Jonathan Rosenberg Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ross Finlayson CC: Peter Parnes , Henning Schulzrinne , rem-conf@es.net, mates@basil.cdt.luth.se Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps References: <3.0.5.16.19980207183320.3c0ffe8a@shell7.ba.best.com> <3.0.5.16.19980208140548.3c0fc80e@shell7.ba.best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Ross Finlayson wrote: > > At 09:58 AM 2/8/98 -0500, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote: > > > > >One could mandate that this SDES item appear only in RTCP packets from > >senders.. > > Well, in that case, why not have this information appear in the senders' > data packets? Why make it part of RTCP at all? That's exactly the point I > was trying to make. > > I would hope that the RTCP SDES items that we define are restricted to > those things that are truly useful for session monitoring/management. > Maybe "nickname" falls into this category. But then again, maybe not... It would seem to me that it does - its certainly not media data. Having this appear in media packets would mean that it gets sent *really* frequently. You could define ways for it to be optionally present, but this seems to be getting really complicated. The proposed purpose of the nickname field is an abbreviated identifier for conference participants. Why would this not be part of session management, when the name, email, and phone fields are? -Jonathan R. -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg Lucent Technologies Member of Technical Staff 101 Crawfords Corner Rd. High Speed Networks Research Holmdel, NJ 07733 PHONE: (732) 949-6418 Rm. 4D-534B FAX: (732) 834-5379 EMAIL: jdrosen@bell-labs.com URL: http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen From rem-conf Sun Feb 08 15:53:52 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 08 15:53:51 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1gVe-0004bZ-00; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:51:38 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.16.19980208154441.201749b2@shell7.ba.best.com> X-Sender: rsf@shell7.ba.best.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (16) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:44:41 To: Jonathan Rosenberg From: Ross Finlayson Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps Cc: Peter Parnes , Henning Schulzrinne , rem-conf@es.net, mates@basil.cdt.luth.se In-Reply-To: <34DE3626.A0F84CC3@dnrc.bell-labs.com> References: <3.0.5.16.19980207183320.3c0ffe8a@shell7.ba.best.com> <3.0.5.16.19980208140548.3c0fc80e@shell7.ba.best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list >The proposed purpose of the nickname field is an abbreviated identifier >for conference participants. Why would this not be part of session >management, when the name, email, and phone fields are? Yes, you may be right. I was mainly playing "Devil's Advocate" and pushing back a little, because I was getting a bit concerned that most the other people who responded seemed to be jumping over each other to say what a wonderful idea this "nickname" field would be. But I think we need to apply at least a little scrutiny here. Otherwise what's next? Latitude/longitude? (actually, this might be useful) Height/weight? Shoe size? Ross. From rem-conf Sun Feb 08 17:53:23 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 08 17:53:22 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1iKO-0006GE-00; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:48:08 -0800 Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:51:27 -0500 From: ActiveTrade@mailexcite.com Message-Id: <199802090051.TAA21357@biner.cruxnet.com> To: ActiveTrade@mailexcite.com Subject: 1998 ACTIVE TRADE DIRECTORIES 1998 ACTIVE TRADE DIRECTORIES Buy Over 1,000,000 Products at Low Prices from China, Hong Kong, Mexico, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, India, Malaysia, Thailand, and the USA X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list For years the rich and powerful have known how to buy at low prices in foreign countries. They knew who to contact. The secret is now available to you. Now, you have the same opportunity that they have had. The 1998 ACTIVE Trade Directory offers point and click access to 10 different countries! 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For the cost of these directories you will be enjoying new friends and a whole new world will be opened up for you. DON'T DELAY! These new directories list many new suppliers waiting to sell American dealers. Get in on the ground floor. An old Chinese proverb states "He who begins first is off to success." Make your dreams come true. There Directories have everything you need to get started at once. As soon as you receive it you can order samples of products you want. GUARANTEE! We guarantee that the names and addresses of suppliers are 98% accurate. Further, we guarantee your satisfaction with this directory. Order your copies today. If you are not Satisfied return it within 30 days for a refund, less the S & H charges. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Print out this order form on your printer, fill in all information , and mail to: D&D PUBLICATIONS PO BOX 43492 RICHMOND HTS, OH 44143-0492 Please rush me my copy(s) of: ___ 1998 CHINA TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 HONG KONG TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 MEXICO TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 PHILIPPINES TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 SINGAPORE TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 TAIWAN TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 THAILAND TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 INDIA TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 MAYLAYSIA TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 USA TRADE DIRECTORY Number of Directories Price (US DOLLARS) _________________________________________________ 1 Directory.............................................................. $15.00 3 Directories........................................................... $35.00 5 w/Free 100+ Page Export Manual) .................... $50.00 ALL 10 (w/Free 100+ Page Export Manual)........... $89.00 Amount enclosed $_________ Check __ Money Order __ Certified/Bank Check__ Name______________________________________________________________ Address____________________________________________________________ City___________________________________ State _____ Zip ______________ Telephone________________ E-Mail ____________________________ (required) *You will be emailed a password to access the active trade directories upon verification of your check. Please allow 1-2 week for checks, 24 hours for money orders or certified checks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rem-conf Sun Feb 08 20:41:31 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 08 20:41:30 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1kv1-0007lp-00; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:34:07 -0800 From: ActiveTrade@mailexcite.com To: ActiveTrade@mailexcite.com Subject: 1998 ACTIVE TRADE DIRECTORIES 1998 ACTIVE TRADE DIRECTORIES Buy Over 1,000,000 Products at Low Prices from China, Hong Kong, Mexico, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, India, Malaysia, Thailand, and the USA Message-Id: Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:34:05 -0800 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list For years the rich and powerful have known how to buy at low prices in foreign countries. They knew who to contact. The secret is now available to you. Now, you have the same opportunity that they have had. The 1998 ACTIVE Trade Directory offers point and click access to 10 different countries! Simply click a country, enter your password, click a product category and you are giving a list of 1,000's of foreign companies offering great products at cheap prices! Included in this list are active direct links to company web sites and email addresses all this through your favorite web browser! Come visit our web site at: http://www.ddp.net Click on any country flag to see what categories are available in each. DIRECTORY CONTENTS: Company Names, Addresses, Phone + Fax Numbers, Year of Company Establishment, Number of Employees, Sales (USD), Contact Name and Position, and Bank References. Many of These Companies Do Not Have Representation in the USA. This and Much More Info Waiting for You. Directories reveal addresses of manufacturers that want to sell hundreds, yes, thousands of different products to you at prices that you will regard as practically a giveaway. You can write to them directly. You can order samples directly from them. It's an exciting new way to get products directly from small manufacturers where you can make deals right with the owner. Without these Trade Directories you might have to take an expensive trip and scour the countryside to locate suppliers. Our new directories has changed all of this. UNBELIEVABLE BARGAINS! Now the World is at your fingertips. You can even get products made to order for you. An American distributor of exotic Lingerie was able to get a quotation of special made to order panties for only .05 each. These were sold in the U.S. at $3.95 each. This is just an example of what's in store for you. GET SAMPLES! Enjoy the thrill of contacting suppliers. But even more, enjoy the money that you will make from products at the low manufacturing prices. Remember, we are talking about first rate products that will sell to your customers in the USA. You can get samples to check out before you buy in quantities. PROFITS WAITING! The world is waiting for you. For the cost of these directories you will be enjoying new friends and a whole new world will be opened up for you. DON'T DELAY! These new directories list many new suppliers waiting to sell American dealers. Get in on the ground floor. An old Chinese proverb states "He who begins first is off to success." Make your dreams come true. There Directories have everything you need to get started at once. As soon as you receive it you can order samples of products you want. GUARANTEE! We guarantee that the names and addresses of suppliers are 98% accurate. Further, we guarantee your satisfaction with this directory. Order your copies today. If you are not Satisfied return it within 30 days for a refund, less the S & H charges. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Print out this order form on your printer, fill in all information , and mail to: D&D PUBLICATIONS PO BOX 43492 RICHMOND HTS, OH 44143-0492 Please rush me my copy(s) of: ___ 1998 CHINA TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 HONG KONG TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 MEXICO TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 PHILIPPINES TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 SINGAPORE TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 TAIWAN TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 THAILAND TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 INDIA TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 MAYLAYSIA TRADE DIRECTORY ___ 1998 USA TRADE DIRECTORY Number of Directories Price (US DOLLARS) _________________________________________________ 1 Directory.............................................................. $15.00 3 Directories........................................................... $35.00 5 w/Free 100+ Page Export Manual) .................... $50.00 ALL 10 (w/Free 100+ Page Export Manual)........... $89.00 Amount enclosed $_________ Check __ Money Order __ Certified/Bank Check__ Name______________________________________________________________ Address____________________________________________________________ City___________________________________ State _____ Zip ______________ Telephone________________ E-Mail ____________________________ (required) *You will be emailed a password to access the active trade directories upon verification of your check. Please allow 1-2 week for checks, 24 hours for money orders or certified checks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rem-conf Mon Feb 09 05:49:56 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Feb 09 05:49:55 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1tSY-0003iW-00; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:41:18 -0800 Sender: hgs@cs.columbia.edu Message-ID: <34DF0774.1DD6613D@cs.columbia.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:41:08 -0500 From: Henning Schulzrinne Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Computer Science X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps References: <3.0.5.16.19980207183320.3c0ffe8a@shell7.ba.best.com> <34DDC825.AFC78E26@dnrc.bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Jonathan Rosenberg wrote: > > Ross Finlayson wrote: > > > One "acid test" we could apply in situations like this (when deciding > > whether a piece of information belongs in RTCP, or instead in the payload) is: > > If a participant is receive-only - i.e., is not sending any RTP data > > packets - then is it useful for other participants to be getting this > > information from the receive-only participant? If not, then the > > information probably doesn't belong in RTCP. > > One could mandate that this SDES item appear only in RTCP packets from > senders.. Since the frequency of non-CNAME items is already restricted and the length of the SDES records figure in the interval computation, no particular harm is being done by adding new items, except that all non-CNAME items will appear more infrequently (particularly from receivers). It is probably useful to stick to information items that are found elsewhere (e.g., organization is a pretty common email header), so as to allow information re-use and avoiding to make the first start-up of an RTP application seem like filling out a job application. From rem-conf Mon Feb 09 05:54:53 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Feb 09 05:54:52 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1tdr-0003q9-00; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:52:59 -0800 Sender: hgs@cs.columbia.edu Message-ID: <34DF0A30.E2E49C05@cs.columbia.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:52:48 -0500 From: Henning Schulzrinne Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Computer Science X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps References: <3.0.5.16.19980207183320.3c0ffe8a@shell7.ba.best.com> <3.0.5.16.19980208140548.3c0fc80e@shell7.ba.best.com> <3.0.5.16.19980208154441.201749b2@shell7.ba.best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Ross Finlayson wrote: [Trimming the cc'list a bit...] > > >The proposed purpose of the nickname field is an abbreviated identifier > >for conference participants. Why would this not be part of session > >management, when the name, email, and phone fields are? > > Yes, you may be right. I was mainly playing "Devil's Advocate" and pushing > back a little, because I was getting a bit concerned that most the other > people who responded seemed to be jumping over each other to say what a > wonderful idea this "nickname" field would be. But I think we need to > apply at least a little scrutiny here. Otherwise what's next? > Latitude/longitude? (actually, this might be useful) Already taken: the LOC SDES item allows this (thought to be useful for some correlation between QOS problems and geography, for example). > Height/weight? Shoe > size? I'm not sure what kind of non-PG-rated uses you have in mind for RTCP, but a certain Mr. Dick Morris might find the latter information useful :-) > > Ross. To answer the slippery-slope argument: we seem to be roughly arriving at the same set of identifying information that is customarily contained in email headers, with 'nickname' being a domain-specific addition. This suggests a pretty good stopping point. From rem-conf Mon Feb 09 06:29:31 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Feb 09 06:29:30 1998 Received: from list by mail2.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1u8N-0007Up-00; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:24:31 -0800 From: anand@ece.iisc.ernet.in (SVR Anand) Message-Id: <9802091410.AA21764@ece.iisc.ernet.in> Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps To: peppar@cdt.luth.se (Peter Parnes) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 98 19:40:33 GMT+5:30 Cc: rem-conf@es.net In-Reply-To: <199802060941.KAA22497@basil.cdt.luth.se>; from "Peter Parnes" at Feb 6, 98 10:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list If I say that the login name part of the email address typically conveys nickname am I terribly wrong ? If so, can't the nickname be used in the login part of the email and do the necessary aliasing locally so that the purpose of having email field is also served ? nickname@host.domain still is unique globally! Regards Anand. From rem-conf Mon Feb 09 07:22:30 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Feb 09 07:22:29 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y1uwS-0005bh-00; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:16:16 -0800 Message-Id: <199802091511.QAA14570@basil.cdt.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: anand@ece.iisc.ernet.in (SVR Anand) cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-00.txt,.ps In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:40:33 GMT." <9802091410.AA21764@ece.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:10:52 +0100 From: Peter Parnes X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list anand@ece.iisc.ernet.in said: > If I say that the login name part of the email address typically > conveys nickname am I terribly wrong ? Unfortunately, you are wrong :-( Two examples: All our students get predefined usernames that are *strange* and not really userfriendly. The other example is Ericsson Erisoft (Ericssons software company) that uses two initials plus the employenumber which once again isn't very user-friendly (who is paprm-8 or jg140 :-) /P From rem-conf Mon Feb 09 23:19:17 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Feb 09 23:19:16 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y29pB-00055H-00; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:09:45 -0800 Message-ID: <34DFFAE7.4372299A@KEGO.COM> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 22:59:51 -0800 From: Cameron Elliott Organization: KEGO - Software & Datacommunications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: LAN T.120 decode help? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hello, I'm trying to understand a T.120 conversation, and could use some help. I'm observing a conversation between two T.120 H.323 clients, and is what I'm seeing: (TCP/IP conversation contents) 03 00 00 0e 09 e0 00 00 02 ec 00 c0 01 0d toward answering client 03 00 00 0b 06 d0 02 ec 04 1c 00 from answering client 03 00 00 b4 02 f0 80 7f 65 81 a9 04 04 01 00 00 toward answerclient ... with another 0xb4-0x10 bytes to follow 03 00 00 71 02 f0 80 7f 66 67 0a 01 0f 02 01 00 from answering client ... with another 0xb4-0x10 bytes to follow Here is what I think I know: A. This stuff is wrapped in TPKT B. The T.120 is BER ASN.1 data C. This I'm not sure of: That the first stuff on the wire should be the T.125 MCSPDU containing a connect-initial choice in BER. D. I understand what the first four bytes are I believe, the TPKT stuff. (which is basically 03 00 (MSB LEN) (LSB LEN) In fact the first stuff on the wire doesn't appear to be a MCSPDU connect-initial encoded in ASN.1 BER, it looks way too small. Anyway, if you can help me decode this, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Cameron The 2nd packet toward From rem-conf Mon Feb 09 23:19:17 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Feb 09 23:19:16 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y29sr-000566-00; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:13:33 -0800 Message-ID: <34DFFBCC.F7D6099C@KEGO.COM> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 23:03:40 -0800 From: Cameron Elliott Organization: KEGO - Software & Datacommunications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: LAN T.120 decode help? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hello, I'm trying to understand a T.120 conversation, and could use some help. I'm observing a conversation between two T.120 H.323 clients, and is what I'm seeing: (TCP/IP conversation contents) 03 00 00 0e 09 e0 00 00 02 ec 00 c0 01 0d toward answering client 03 00 00 0b 06 d0 02 ec 04 1c 00 from answering client 03 00 00 b4 02 f0 80 7f 65 81 a9 04 04 01 00 00 toward answerclient ... with another 0xb4-0x10 bytes to follow 03 00 00 71 02 f0 80 7f 66 67 0a 01 0f 02 01 00 from answering client ... with another 0xb4-0x10 bytes to follow Here is what I think I know: A. This stuff is wrapped in TPKT B. The T.120 is BER ASN.1 data C. This I'm not sure of: That the first stuff on the wire should be the T.125 MCSPDU containing a connect-initial choice in BER. D. I understand what the first four bytes are I believe, the TPKT stuff. (which is basically 03 00 (MSB LEN) (LSB LEN) In fact the first stuff on the wire doesn't appear to be a MCSPDU connect-initial encoded in ASN.1 BER, it looks way too small. Anyway, if you can help me decode this, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Cameron The 2nd packet toward From rem-conf Wed Feb 11 04:12:58 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 11 04:12:57 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y2alA-0000Da-00; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:55:24 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 06:55:22 -0500 (EST) From: Jeff Pulver To: rem-conf Subject: Reminder: Call for Speakers for VON Europe Deadline - Feb 28th Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hi There, Voice on the Net Europe (http://pulver.com/europe98) will be taking place at the SAS Radisson Plaza hotel in Oslo, Norway June 8-11, 1998. If you are interested in speaking there please submit your speaking proposal to me no later than February 28, 1998. At the conference we will be covering a broad array of issues and technologies effecting the VON/VoIP industry. Some of the topics which are under consideration include: specific VoIP standards and protocols; quality of service issues; IN/SS7 issues; SIP vs. H.323; H.323 2.0; H.323 Gatekeeper; directory services; Voice over Cable; feedback from Carriers/Enterprises who have implemented VoIP gateways (both voice and fax); ubiquitious VoIP Gateways/Gatekeepers; Billing/accounting/settlement for VoIP technologies; Etherphones; enterprise use of VoIP / Video technologies; NextGen Telcos; IP Video; IP based PBX and ACDs; VoIP Solutions for ISPs; Last Mile Technologies; Voice enabled Web applications; TAPI 3.0; The UnPBX; Internet Call Centers; VPIM; Multipoint Audio Conferencing; Domestic and International Regulatory issues. In your proposal please include the title of the session, a one paragraph abstract together with the proposed names of other panelists / discusssants. Each of the selected panels will be scheduled to run 75 minutes. Best Regards, ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Pulver Tel. 516.753.2640 Publisher Fax. 516.293.3996 The Pulver Report http://pulver.com Conference: Spring '98 Voice on the Net http://pulver.com/von98 From rem-conf Fri Feb 13 10:19:43 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 13 10:19:41 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y3P8m-0004kO-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:43:08 -0800 Message-Id: <01BD387C.ACD96370@aceltd0123.aceltd.com> From: Robert Kaplan To: "'rem-conf@es.net'" Subject: Please Add me to the reflector Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:41:16 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Robert Kaplan Director Product Development AC & E, Ltd 14101 Sullyfield Circle Chantilly, VA 20151 Phone: (703) 968-5700 Fax: (703) 968-4331 rkaplan@aceltd.com From rem-conf Fri Feb 13 15:47:36 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 13 15:47:35 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y3UkS-0007Ey-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:42:24 -0800 To: From: harley@sunline.net Bcc: rate@suncs.com, rbbs@pm-jp.com, rchimblo@ziplink.net, redwing@po.cnet-nc.ne.jp, register@metrowerks.com, reisvraag@telegraaf.nl, rem-conf@es.net, request@iijnet.or.jp, rescue@ask.or.jp, reviken@mx5.nisiq.net Subject: Harley Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII content-length: 1288 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:42:23 -0800 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hello I came across your website and thought you might be Interested. We carry a full product line of Harley Davidson Merchandise & Harley Parts. T-Shirts - Bandanas - Glasses - Hats - Incense - Ladies Bags - Wallets - Oil Lamps & much more! Check Out Our WebSite: http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html Guaranteed LOW prices! No we are not a scam business we provide all our business details on our web site. We also accept Credit cards via a secured server for security. We even provide you with a 1 (888) phone# a toll free call. Nelson's Tees web site has been verified to be safe to order from, by GreenBull Web Design, Inc. http://www.greenbull.com GreenBull is proud to bring you a more secure way to order from the Internet! Thanks for your time! Don Nelson (President of Nelson's Tees) http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We hope you don't mind this mail. If you do please accept my apology. If for any reason you wish to be removed from this list please hit remove and send it to us. This Email message is targeted not sent at random. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rem-conf Fri Feb 13 16:27:11 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 13 16:27:09 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y3VPa-0000Ld-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:24:54 -0800 To: From: removemail@usa.net Bcc: reisvraag@telegraaf.nl, rem-conf@es.net, request@iijnet.or.jp, rescue@ask.or.jp, reviken@mx5.nisiq.net, rex@url.co.nz, reznor@0-halo.net, richard.bothe@mch.sni.de, richard.ms@ihug.co.nz, rika@marinet.or.jp Subject: Harley Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII content-length: 1288 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:24:52 -0800 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hello I came across your website and thought you might be Interested. We carry a full product line of Harley Davidson Merchandise & Harley Parts. T-Shirts - Bandanas - Glasses - Hats - Incense - Ladies Bags - Wallets - Oil Lamps & much more! Check Out Our WebSite: http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html Guaranteed LOW prices! No we are not a scam business we provide all our business details on our web site. We also accept Credit cards via a secured server for security. We even provide you with a 1 (888) phone# a toll free call. Nelson's Tees web site has been verified to be safe to order from, by GreenBull Web Design, Inc. http://www.greenbull.com GreenBull is proud to bring you a more secure way to order from the Internet! Thanks for your time! Don Nelson (President of Nelson's Tees) http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We hope you don't mind this mail. If you do please accept my apology. If for any reason you wish to be removed from this list please hit remove and send it to us. This Email message is targeted not sent at random. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rem-conf Fri Feb 13 16:48:43 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 13 16:48:43 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y3ViG-0001F1-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:44:12 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980213195004.02aa9390@matilda> X-Sender: slacroix@matilda X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:50:05 -0400 To: rem-conf@es.net From: slacroix@wpine.com (Scott Lacroix) Subject: remove Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list This is the second copy I've gotten... One was not a problem, this shows a distubing trend. remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove remove - Scott -- ,-==================================-.-==================================-. | I haven't lost my mind, it's backed | Scott LaCroix (slacroix@wpine.com) | | up on tape around here somewhere... | Sr. Software Engineer ___ | | - Author Unknown | White Pine Software ./_ -\. | | #include | http://www.wpine.com q| o O |p | `-==================================-^-=====================oOOo=~U~=oOOo-' From rem-conf Fri Feb 13 17:15:34 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 13 17:15:33 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y3WAQ-0001vR-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:13:18 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980213201911.02aa99b0@matilda> X-Sender: slacroix@matilda X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:19:11 -0400 To: Ari@OLTECO.com (Ari Ollikainen) From: slacroix@wpine.com (Scott Lacroix) Subject: Re: remove Cc: rem-conf@es.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list At 04:58 PM 2/13/98 -0800, you wrote: > If you want to be REMOVEd from the rem-conf list then you > should send your request to rem-conf-request@es.net > > NOT TO THE LIST! > > > OLTECO Ari Ollikainen > P.O. BOX 3688 Networking Technology and Architecture > Stanford, CA Ari@OLTECO.com > 94309-3688 415.517.3519 Well, that WAS interesting! The message I sent the irate remove to is quoted below... I expect it must have been sent through the rem-conf list??? I didn't even think to check the headers since my mailer filters all my rem-conf mail to a folder... It seems I missed something somewhere since the reply-to header clearly points at rem-conf and I CLEARLY did not check the address when I sent my (rather irate) reply! My sincerest apologies to Ari Ollikainen and everyone else I blasted... *sigh* >Return-Path: >Received: from mail1.es.net ([198.128.3.181]) by matilda.wpine.com > (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34401U600L100S0) > with SMTP id AAA8620; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:00:06 -0500 >Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) > id 0y3UkS-0007Ey-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:42:24 -0800 >To: >From: harley@sunline.net >Bcc: rate@suncs.com, rbbs@pm-jp.com, rchimblo@ziplink.net, redwing@po.cnet-nc.ne.jp, register@metrowerks.com, reisvraag@telegraaf.nl, rem-conf@es.net, request@iijnet.or.jp, rescue@ask.or.jp, reviken@mx5.nisiq.net >Subject: Harley >Message-Id: >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII >content-length: 1288 >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:42:23 -0800 >Precedence: list >reply-to: rem-conf@es.net > > >Hello > >I came across your website and thought you might be Interested. >We carry a full product line of Harley Davidson Merchandise & Harley Parts. > T-Shirts - Bandanas - Glasses - Hats - Incense - Ladies Bags - >Wallets - Oil Lamps & much more! > >Check Out Our WebSite: http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html > >Guaranteed LOW prices! No we are not a scam business we provide >all our business details on our web site. We also accept Credit cards via >a secured server for security. We even provide you with a 1 (888) phone# >a toll free call. > > >Nelson's Tees web site has been verified to be safe to order from, by GreenBull Web Design, >Inc. http://www.greenbull.com >GreenBull is proud to bring you a more secure way to order from the Internet! > >Thanks for your time! >Don Nelson >(President of Nelson's Tees) >http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------- >We hope you don't mind this mail. If you do please accept my apology. >If for any reason you wish to be removed from this list please hit remove >and send it to us. This Email message is targeted not sent at random. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------- - Scott -- ,-==================================-.-==================================-. | I haven't lost my mind, it's backed | Scott LaCroix (slacroix@wpine.com) | | up on tape around here somewhere... | Sr. Software Engineer ___ | | - Author Unknown | White Pine Software ./_ -\. | | #include | http://www.wpine.com q| o O |p | `-==================================-^-=====================oOOo=~U~=oOOo-' From rem-conf Fri Feb 13 17:23:12 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 13 17:23:11 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y3WIQ-0002IP-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:21:34 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980213202727.02a9fa90@matilda> X-Sender: slacroix@matilda X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:27:27 -0400 To: rem-conf@es.net From: slacroix@wpine.com (Scott Lacroix) Subject: Re: remove Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list At 04:58 PM 2/13/98 -0800, you wrote: > If you want to be REMOVEd from the rem-conf list then you > should send your request to rem-conf-request@es.net > > NOT TO THE LIST! > > > OLTECO Ari Ollikainen > P.O. BOX 3688 Networking Technology and Architecture > Stanford, CA Ari@OLTECO.com > 94309-3688 415.517.3519 Well, that WAS interesting! The message I sent the irate remove to is quoted below... I expect it must have been sent through the rem-conf list??? I didn't even think to check the headers since my mailer filters all my rem-conf mail to a folder... It seems I missed something somewhere since the reply-to header clearly points at rem-conf and I CLEARLY did not check the address when I sent my (rather irate) reply! My sincerest apologies to Ari Ollikainen and everyone else I blasted... *sigh* ------------------------BEGIN QUOTED MESSAGE-------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from mail1.es.net ([198.128.3.181]) by matilda.wpine.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34401U600L100S0) with SMTP id AAA8620; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:00:06 -0500 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y3UkS-0007Ey-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:42:24 -0800 To: From: harley@sunline.net Bcc: rate@suncs.com, rbbs@pm-jp.com, rchimblo@ziplink.net, redwing@po.cnet-nc.ne.jp, register@metrowerks.com, reisvraag@telegraaf.nl, rem-conf@es.net, request@iijnet.or.jp, rescue@ask.or.jp, reviken@mx5.nisiq.net Subject: Harley Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII content-length: 1288 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:42:23 -0800 Precedence: list reply-to: rem-conf@es.net Hello I came across your website and thought you might be Interested. We carry a full product line of Harley Davidson Merchandise & Harley Parts. T-Shirts - Bandanas - Glasses - Hats - Incense - Ladies Bags - Wallets - Oil Lamps & much more! Check Out Our WebSite: http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html Guaranteed LOW prices! No we are not a scam business we provide all our business details on our web site. We also accept Credit cards via a secured server for security. We even provide you with a 1 (888) phone# a toll free call. Nelson's Tees web site has been verified to be safe to order from, by GreenBull Web Design, Inc. http://www.greenbull.com GreenBull is proud to bring you a more secure way to order from the Internet! Thanks for your time! Don Nelson (President of Nelson's Tees) http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- We hope you don't mind this mail. If you do please accept my apology. If for any reason you wish to be removed from this list please hit remove and send it to us. This Email message is targeted not sent at random. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- ------------------------END QUOTED MESSAGE-------------------------- - Scott -- ,-==================================-.-==================================-. | I haven't lost my mind, it's backed | Scott LaCroix (slacroix@wpine.com) | | up on tape around here somewhere... | Sr. Software Engineer ___ | | - Author Unknown | White Pine Software ./_ -\. | | #include | http://www.wpine.com q| o O |p | `-==================================-^-=====================oOOo=~U~=oOOo-' From rem-conf Fri Feb 13 17:25:10 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 13 17:25:09 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y3WLC-0002Sh-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:24:26 -0800 To: reisvraag@telegraaf.nl, rem-conf@es.net, request@iijnet.or.jp, rescue@ask.or.jp, reviken@mx5.nisiq.net, rex@url.co.nz, reznor@0-halo.net, richard.bothe@mch.sni.de, richard.ms@ihug.co.nz, rika@marinet.or.jp From: removemail@usa.net Bcc: yxg56455@biglobe.ne.jp, y-yama@pop.biwako.or.jp, z1105mk2@net117.or.jp, zatsys@mars.dti.ne.jp, zenk@pop01.odn.ne.jp, zerosiki@super.win.or.jp, zi8y-sd@asahi-net.or.jp, zr7r-ucd@asahi-net.or.jp, zwager@maureng.com Subject: Harley Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII content-length: 1288 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:24:25 -0800 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hello I came across your website and thought you might be Interested. We carry a full product line of Harley Davidson Merchandise & Harley Parts. T-Shirts - Bandanas - Glasses - Hats - Incense - Ladies Bags - Wallets - Oil Lamps & much more! Check Out Our WebSite: http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html Guaranteed LOW prices! No we are not a scam business we provide all our business details on our web site. We also accept Credit cards via a secured server for security. We even provide you with a 1 (888) phone# a toll free call. Nelson's Tees web site has been verified to be safe to order from, by GreenBull Web Design, Inc. http://www.greenbull.com GreenBull is proud to bring you a more secure way to order from the Internet! Thanks for your time! Don Nelson (President of Nelson's Tees) http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We hope you don't mind this mail. If you do please accept my apology. If for any reason you wish to be removed from this list please hit remove and send it to us. This Email message is targeted not sent at random. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rem-conf Fri Feb 13 17:39:11 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 13 17:39:10 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y3WY9-0003TH-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:37:49 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:37:47 -0800 (PST) From: David Reoch X-Sender: dave@bentley To: Scott Lacroix cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: remove In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980213202727.02a9fa90@matilda> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list "If we didn't have all this GAK, WE WOULDN'T NEED FILTERS!!!!!!!", he said, humorously. On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Scott Lacroix wrote: > At 04:58 PM 2/13/98 -0800, you wrote: > > If you want to be REMOVEd from the rem-conf list then you > > should send your request to rem-conf-request@es.net > > > > NOT TO THE LIST! > > > > > > OLTECO Ari Ollikainen > > P.O. BOX 3688 Networking Technology and Architecture > > Stanford, CA Ari@OLTECO.com > > 94309-3688 415.517.3519 > > Well, that WAS interesting! The message I sent the irate remove to is > quoted below... I expect it must have been sent through the rem-conf > list??? I didn't even think to check the headers since my mailer filters > all my rem-conf mail to a folder... It seems I missed something somewhere > since the reply-to header clearly points at rem-conf and I CLEARLY did not > check the address when I sent my (rather irate) reply! > > My sincerest apologies to Ari Ollikainen and everyone else I blasted... > > *sigh* > > ------------------------BEGIN QUOTED MESSAGE-------------------------- > > Return-Path: > Received: from mail1.es.net ([198.128.3.181]) by matilda.wpine.com > (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34401U600L100S0) > with SMTP id AAA8620; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:00:06 -0500 > Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) > id 0y3UkS-0007Ey-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:42:24 -0800 > To: > From: harley@sunline.net > Bcc: rate@suncs.com, rbbs@pm-jp.com, rchimblo@ziplink.net, > redwing@po.cnet-nc.ne.jp, register@metrowerks.com, reisvraag@telegraaf.nl, > rem-conf@es.net, request@iijnet.or.jp, rescue@ask.or.jp, reviken@mx5.nisiq.net > Subject: Harley > Message-Id: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII > content-length: 1288 > Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:42:23 -0800 > Precedence: list > reply-to: rem-conf@es.net > > > Hello > > I came across your website and thought you might be Interested. > We carry a full product line of Harley Davidson Merchandise & Harley Parts. > T-Shirts - Bandanas - Glasses - Hats - Incense - Ladies Bags - > Wallets - Oil Lamps & much more! > > Check Out Our WebSite: http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html > > Guaranteed LOW prices! No we are not a scam business we provide > all our business details on our web site. We also accept Credit cards via > a secured server for security. We even provide you with a 1 (888) phone# > a toll free call. > > > Nelson's Tees web site has been verified to be safe to order from, by > GreenBull Web Design, > Inc. http://www.greenbull.com > GreenBull is proud to bring you a more secure way to order from the Internet! > > Thanks for your time! > Don Nelson > (President of Nelson's Tees) > http://www.nelsonstees.com/harley.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------- > We hope you don't mind this mail. If you do please accept my apology. > If for any reason you wish to be removed from this list please hit remove > and send it to us. This Email message is targeted not sent at random. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------- > > ------------------------END QUOTED MESSAGE-------------------------- > > - Scott > -- > > ,-==================================-.-==================================-. > | I haven't lost my mind, it's backed | Scott LaCroix (slacroix@wpine.com) | > | up on tape around here somewhere... | Sr. Software Engineer ___ | > | - Author Unknown | White Pine Software ./_ -\. | > | #include | http://www.wpine.com q| o O |p | > `-==================================-^-=====================oOOo=~U~=oOOo-' > > From rem-conf Sun Feb 15 06:17:00 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 15 06:16:59 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y44ah-0005yb-00; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 05:58:43 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:55:52 GMT From: red6@eagle.mooncrater.net To: admin@downlineclubs.com Subject: of course you're invited... Reply-To: rightlife@wainfleet.ids.on.ca X-PMFLAGS: 10322341.10 X-UIDL: 10293287_192832.222 Comments: Authenticated Sender is Message-Id: <66416005_76591442> X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list The Truth? This really is a once in a lifetime opportunity. take a look at how you can be on the FOUNDERS LEVEL of a company that is destined to be HUGE! The pre-launch just started! The products are awesome and guaranteed! The comp-plan is insane! The Bonuses are enourmous! SPILLOVER GALORE! and on and on! http://209.84.113.45/rightlife/index.htm http://209.84.113.45/rightlife/products.htm http://209.84.113.45/rightlife/compplan.htm Trust me, don't miss out. If these servers are busy due to the enourmous rush for positioning go to this one... http://world-space.ids.on.ca/users/rightlife/ ************************************** we honor all remove requests. reply with "remove" in subject. ************************************** From rem-conf Sun Feb 15 18:08:18 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 15 18:08:16 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y4Fpz-0002Kk-00; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:59:15 -0800 Message-ID: <000b01bd3a7e$134ebee0$8a069bca@baracuda.indosat.net.id> Reply-To: "Subagia" From: "Subagia" To: Cc: Subject: Modifications of MBONE Session Agenda (Feb 25, 1998) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:56:18 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD3AB8.BF38DC10" X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD3AB8.BF38DC10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sir/Madam, I would like to make some modifications for the title of the program ( = Feb 25, 1998 ---> 17:00 - 19:00) It should be " The Non Aligned Movement - CSSTC" Thank you very much for your help and assintance =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D SUBAGIA Senior Engineer Product Development, Internet Division INDOSAT +62-21-3869268 gia@indosat.net.id =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD3AB8.BF38DC10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Sir/Madam,
 
I would like to make some = modifications for the=20 title of the program ( Feb 25, 1998 ---> 17:00 - 19:00)
It should be " The Non = Aligned=20 Movement - CSSTC"
 
Thank you very much for your help = and =20 assintance
 
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
SUBAGIA
Senior Engineer
Product Development, Internet=20 Division
INDOSAT
+62-21-3869268
gia@indosat.net.id
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD3AB8.BF38DC10-- From rem-conf Mon Feb 16 01:39:54 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Feb 16 01:39:53 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y4Mwa-0005bV-00; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 01:34:32 -0800 Message-ID: <007601bd3abd$b1a989f0$8a069bca@baracuda.indosat.net.id> Reply-To: "Subagia" From: "Subagia" To: Cc: Subject: Modifications of MBONE Session Agenda (Feb 25, 1998) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:31:43 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Dear Sir, I would like to make some modifications for the title of the program (Feb 25, 199->17:00 - 19:00). It should be "The Non Aligned Movement - CSSTC" Thank you very much for your help and assistance. ============================== SUBAGIA Senior Engineer Product Development, Internet Division INDOSAT ( +62-21-3869268) gia@indosat.net.id ============================== From rem-conf Mon Feb 16 19:47:07 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon Feb 16 19:47:06 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y4djW-00048l-00; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:30:10 -0800 Sender: fleck@informatik.uni-bonn.de Message-ID: <34E90491.42CB@informatik.uni-bonn.de> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 04:31:29 +0100 From: Markus Fleck Organization: University of Bonn, Germany X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 i86pc) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: FYI: draft-ietf-fleischman-asf-00.txt - Advanced Streaming Format (ASF) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list draft-ietf-fleischman-asf-00.txt: Advanced Streaming Format (ASF) Specification Abstract The Advanced Streaming Format (ASF) is an extensible file format designed to store synchronized multimedia data. It supports data delivery over a wide variety of networks and protocols while still proving suitable for local playback. ASF supports advanced multimedia capabilities including extensible media types, component download, scaleable media types, author-specified stream prioritization, multiple language support, and extensive bibliographic capabilities, including document and content management. [...] 1.1 What is ASF? The Advanced Streaming Format (ASF) is an extensible file format designed to store synchronized multimedia data. It supports data delivery over a wide variety of networks and protocols while still proving suitable for local playback. The explicit goal of ASF is to provide a basis for industry-wide multimedia interoperability, with ASF being adopted by all major streaming solution providers and multimedia authoring tool vendors. Each ASF file is composed of one or more media streams. The file header specifies the properties of the entire file, along with stream- specific properties. Multimedia data, stored after the file header, references a particular media stream number to indicate its type and purpose. The delivery and presentation of all media stream data is synchronized to a common timeline. The ASF file definition includes the specification of some commonly used media types (see Section 8). The explicit intention is that if an implementation supports media types from within this set of standard media types (in other words, audio, video, image, timecode, text, MIDI, command, or media object), then that media type must be supported in the manner described in Section 8 if the resulting content is to be considered to be "content compliant" with the ASF specification. Implementations are free to support other media types (in addition to the currently defined standard media types) in any way they see fit. Finally, ASF is said to support the transmission of "live content" over a network. This refers to multimedia content that may or may not ever become recorded upon a persistent media source (for example, a disk, CD-ROM, DVD, etc). This use explicitly and solely means that information describing the multimedia content must have been received before the multimedia data itself is received (in order to interpret the multimedia data), and that this information must convey the semantics of the ASF Header Object. Similarly, the received data must correspond to the format of the ASF data units. No additional information should be conveyed by this term. Specifically, this use explicitly does not refer to (or contain) any information about network control protocols or network transmission protocols. It refers solely to the order of information arrival (header semantics before data) and the data format. [...] From rem-conf Tue Feb 17 02:41:53 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Feb 17 02:41:52 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y4kLf-0006pZ-00; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 02:33:59 -0800 From: ttww29 To: Message-Id: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu> Monday, February 9th, 1998 Reply-To: ttw19@ttw29-1.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 05:38:59 -0500 Subject: None X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Authenticated sender is Subject: Tuesday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!! Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool. This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email addresses. Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect anything...you are only limited by your imagination! You can even collect email addresses for specific states, cities, and even countries! All you need is your web browser and this program. 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From rem-conf Wed Feb 18 08:20:36 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 18 08:20:34 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5BrG-00028s-00; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:56:26 -0800 Sender: hgs@cs.columbia.edu Message-ID: <34EB04A6.5FD13E72@cs.columbia.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:56:22 -0500 From: Henning Schulzrinne Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Computer Science X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Sound card for parallel port Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list My new Libretto sub-notebook only has audio output. Anybody know if there are soundcards that connect to the parallel (or serial) port? Thanks. From rem-conf Wed Feb 18 08:48:21 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 18 08:48:20 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5CVq-0002fg-00; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:38:22 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:38:15 -0500 (EST) From: Jeff Pulver To: Henning Schulzrinne cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Sound card for parallel port In-Reply-To: <34EB04A6.5FD13E72@cs.columbia.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Henning - There are several vendors in the IP Telephony space who have products designed to by-pass the sound system in Windows which uses the serial port instead. Vienna Systems was one of the first to market such a product and I believe Shelcad (www.shelcad.com) might be another. Best Regards, ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Pulver Tel. 516.753.2640 Publisher Fax. 516.293.3996 The Pulver Report http://pulver.com Conference: Spring '98 Voice on the Net http://pulver.com/von98 On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Henning Schulzrinne wrote: > My new Libretto sub-notebook only has audio output. Anybody know if > there are soundcards that connect to the parallel (or serial) port? > > Thanks. > > From rem-conf Wed Feb 18 09:19:51 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 18 09:19:48 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5D0O-0003VM-00; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:09:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199802181709.MAA10417@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> To: Henning Schulzrinne Cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Sound card for parallel port In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:56:22 -0500. <34EB04A6.5FD13E72@cs.columbia.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:09:51 -0500 From: Dory Ethan Leifer X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list It has a PC slot, right? There are CDROM drives (ie Panasonic) that have integrated sound cards. Dory > My new Libretto sub-notebook only has audio output. Anybody know if > there are soundcards that connect to the parallel (or serial) port? > > Thanks. From rem-conf Wed Feb 18 09:22:22 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 18 09:22:21 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5DBf-0003k0-00; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:21:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199802181711.MAA22345@liberator.cit.cornell.edu> To: Jeff Pulver cc: Henning Schulzrinne , rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Sound card for parallel port In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:38:15 EST." Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:11:47 -0500 From: Melinda Shore X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Shelcad has a device that attaches an analog telephone to a serial port. It's called an "S-phone," and it's almost as large as a Libretto. Vienna does indeed have a similar device, but we found that they were rather more difficult to work with than Shelcad is. In particular, they were unwilling to share their serial protocol with us. Melinda Shore Lead Network Systems Programmer Cornell Information Technologies shore@nr-atp.cit.cornell.edu From rem-conf Wed Feb 18 09:43:42 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 18 09:43:42 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5DUu-0004qU-00; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:41:28 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:40:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Jon Knight X-Sender: jon@weeble.lut.ac.uk To: Henning Schulzrinne cc: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Re: Sound card for parallel port In-Reply-To: <34EB04A6.5FD13E72@cs.columbia.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Henning Schulzrinne wrote: > My new Libretto sub-notebook only has audio output. Anybody know if > there are soundcards that connect to the parallel (or serial) port? On the libretto mailing list recently some people reported that Halted ( are flogging remaindered PCMCIA soundcards for $29.95. These do have sound inputs (mic, line in). No experience of them myself though as I can't easily buy stuff from them in the US (no credit card - international e-commerce is going to pass me by thankfully :-) ). Tatty bye, Jim'll -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jon "Jim'll" Knight, Researcher, Sysop and General Dogsbody, Dept. Computer Studies, Loughborough University of Technology, Leics., ENGLAND. LE11 3TU. * I've found I now dream in Perl. More worryingly, I enjoy those dreams. * From rem-conf Wed Feb 18 11:55:52 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 18 11:55:52 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5FVt-0006MR-00; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:50:37 -0800 From: "Edward W. Knightly" Message-Id: <980218135034.ZM15254@qos.ece.rice.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:50:34 -0600 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: IWQoS Final CFP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list ________________________________________________ CALL FOR PAPERS Sixth IEEE/IFIP International Workshop on Quality of Service (IWQoS '98) -Napa, California USA - May 18-20, 1998 Sponsored by IEEE Communications Society Technical Committees on Computer Communications, Internet, Multimedia Communications, and Software Technical co-sponsorship by IFIP WG6.1* In co-operation with ACM SIGCOMM Patrons: Hewlett Packard and Nokia Corporation *to be approved ________________________________________________ INVITED PROGRAM --------------- Keynote Address - Roch Guerin, IBM Research Keynote Paper - Domenico Ferrari, Universita' Cattolica Piacenza, Italy Panel Chair - Hui Zhang, Carnegie Mellon University "The Future of Differential and Integrated Services in the Internet" Panel Chair - Vaduvur Bharghavan, University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign "QoS in Wireless Networks: the Transition from Myth to Reality" WORKSHOP SCOPE -------------- This is the sixth in a series of workshops aimed at providing an international forum for the exchange of information on quality of service (QoS) research in distributed and Internet systems. The objective of the Sixth International Workshop on Quality of Service is to bring together researchers, developers, and practitioners working in all facets of QoS research addressing distributed systems, Internet services, multimedia, operating systems, networking, and middleware to discuss recent results and future directions. Contributions are solicited in all areas of QoS research in distributed systems and networking, including, but not limited to: - QoS Specification, Resource Allocation, (Re)negotiation, and Monitoring - QoS and the Internet - QoS Performance Modeling, Analysis and Evaluation - Adaptive Applications and Services - QoS Measurement, Management and Control - QoS Support for Mobility and Wireless Networks - Middleware Solutions for End-to-End QoS - Media Scaling and QoS Filtering Techniques - QoS Support for Information Appliances - Storage Systems/Database Support for QoS - Experimental Studies on QoS, including Human Perception - QoS Programmability, Languages and Formal Method Techniques - QoS Economics and Implications WORKSHOP URL ------------ http://www-ece.rice.edu/conf/iwqos98 IMPORTANT DATES --------------- * Submission of contribution: February 23, 1998 * Notification of acceptance: April 6, 1998 * Camera-ready paper due: April 13, 1998 PAPER SUBMISSION ---------------- Authors are invited to submit full papers and position statements for review. Full papers should not exceed 12 single-spaced pages including figures, tables, and references, using a typeface no smaller than 11 points. Position statements should not exceed 3 single-spaced pages. To expedite the reviewing process, please submit the paper electronically (in postscript format only, through e-mail) to iwqos98@ece.rice.edu. All submissions must include name and affiliation of the authors, a contact address of the main author, an abstract, and keywords. PROGRAM CO-CHAIRS: ------------------ Ed Knightly, Rice University Rich Friedrich, Hewlett Packard Laboratories PROGRAM COMMITTEE: ------------------ Vaduvur Bharghavan, University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, USA Gordon Blair, University of Lancaster, UK Andrew Campbell, Columbia University, USA Simon Crosby, Cambridge University, UK Jon Crowcroft, UCL, UK Hermann de Meer, University of Hamburg, Germany Jan de Meer, GMD Fokus, Germany Sudhir Dixit, Nokia Research, USA Alexandros Eleftheriadis, Columbia University, USA Domenico Ferrari, Universita' Cattolica Piacenza, Italy Leonard Franken, KPN Research, The Netherlands Michael Fry, University of Technology, Australia Jean-Peirre Hubaux, EPFL, Switzerland Brigitte Kerherve, University of Quebec at Montreal, Canada Glenford Mapp, Olivetti Research Ltd, UK Mahmoud Nagshineh, IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center, USA Klara Nahrstedt, University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, USA Max Ott, C&C Research, NEC USA Guru Parulkar, Washington University, USA Steve Pink, Lulea University of Technology, Sweden Jerry Rolia, Carleton University, Canada Douglas Schmidt, Washington University, USA Chris Sluman, OpenIT Ltd, UK Cormac Sreenan, AT&T Research, USA Hideyuki Tokuda, Keio University, Japan James VanLoo, Sun Microsystems, USA Andreas Vogel, DSTC, Australia Lixia Zhang, University of California, Los Angeles, USA Hui Zhang, Carnegie Mellon University, USA From rem-conf Wed Feb 18 21:23:21 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 18 21:23:20 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5OLB-0006q8-00; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:16:09 -0800 Received: from (pec.etri.re.kr) [129.254.201.2] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5OLA-0006pr-00; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:16:08 -0800 Received: from pec.etri.re.kr (mkshin.etri.re.kr [129.254.201.168]) by pec.etri.re.kr (8.8.8H1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14077; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:13:18 +0900 (KST) Message-ID: <34EBBFAF.4D45E1BA@pec.etri.re.kr> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:14:24 +0900 From: Myung-Ki Shin Reply-To: mkshin@pec.etri.re.kr Organization: ETRI X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mbone@ISI.EDU, rem-conf@es.net Subject: Announcing RTMW RTP player plug-in & Applet beta-release Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Announcing RTMW RTP player plug-in & Applet beta-release -------------------------------------------------------- We have been developing RTMW(Real-Time Multimedia Web),Web-based multicast, multimedia application which allows Web users to join an MBone session and receive audio/video (without MBone tools such as rat, vic, etc.) seamlessly. This project was started in 1997 by ETRI/PEC and Chungnam National Univ. with the objective to develop a prototype of integrating RTP/RTCP and SDP, SAP into the Web. A RTMW is Internet community standards compliant and interoperable with other MBone applications. A RTMW user can select two RTP/RTCP players to show real-time audio/video via the MBone. RTP Player Plug-in RTP Player Applet In case of RTP Player Applet, significance to Web users who want to play RTP audio/video on various platforms is the ability of a Applet, to be downloaded automatically from a server to the Web users. The network delivers the Applet to Web browsers when you request them. So, RTPPlayer Applet can be deployed without modification to any computing platform, thus saving the costs associated with developing software for multiple platforms. And because the program are stored on centralized servers, there is no longer a need to have MBone users download and install program to update software. Documentations, binaries (Windows, Java platform), and WebSDR location are available at: http://www.mbone.or.kr/rtmw/ Send feedback to : mmweb@pec.etri.re.kr Myung-Ki Shin, ETRI -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Myung-Ki Shin | mkshin@pec.etri.re.kr ETRI/PEC | P.O. Box 106, Yusong | Daejeon, 305-350, Korea | Tel:+82-42-860-4847 | FAX:+82-42-861-5404 | http://pec.etri.re.kr/~mkshin/ From rem-conf Thu Feb 19 10:54:19 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Feb 19 10:54:18 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5alH-0003sW-00; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:31:55 -0800 Received: from mcipmcfw.pmc.philips.com (pmc02.pmc.philips.com) [206.101.165.2] by mail1.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5alG-0003sM-00; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:31:54 -0800 Received: from PMC.Philips.COM by pmc02.pmc.philips.com via ESMTP (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) for id KAA09991; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:31:52 -0800 Received: (from martin@localhost) by PMC.Philips.COM (8.8.7/8.7.3) id KAA14880 for rem-conf@es.net; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:31:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:31:52 -0800 (PST) From: Martin Freeman Message-Id: <199802191831.KAA14880@PMC.Philips.COM> Content-Type: text To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: Unidentified subject! X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list HOT Chips 10 A Symposium on High-Performance Chip Architectures Stanford University, Stanford, California August, 1998 CALL FOR CONTRIBUTIONS HOT CHIPS is presenting its tenth conference! Sponsored by the IEEE Computer Society Technical Committee on Microprocessors and Microcomputers, the HOT Chips 10 conference focuses on high-performance chips, systems and related topics. The emphasis is on real products and real technology, at the system/chip level, not paper designs. Participants will not be required to prepare written papers. The proceedings will consist of copies of the slides presented. Contributions are solicited in the following areas: - RISC, CISC and VLIW Processors - 3-D Graphics and Multimedia Chips - Embedded CPUs, Chip Sets and DSP Chips - Special Function Chips (Encryption, Floating Point Processors, Compression) - Low Power Chips and Technologies - Intelligent and High Performance Memory Chips - Field Programmable and Reconfigurable Chips - Compilers and Binary Translators - Benchmarking/Performance Evaluation - New Technologies Proposals should consist of a title, an extended abstract (1-3 pages) describing the product or topic to be presented, and the name, title, address, phone number, fax number, and electronic mail address of the presenter. You must advise us if you have an identical, similar or overlapping submission pending at another conference or for a journal. The status of the product or topic should be described precisely, e.g. "planned", "first silicon", "fully debugged", "sampling", "in quantity shipment" etc. If this is a not-yet-announced product, and you would like the submission kept confidential, please indicate it; we will do our best to maintain confidentiality. Authors will be notified of the status of their submission by late April, 1998. Presentations will be selected based on the program committee's evaluation of interest to the audience; the committee will consider factors such as novelty, performance, advanced technology, commercial scope, technical content of the submission and significance. Submissions can be made by hard copy, fax, or electronic mail. Plain ASCII is preferred, PostScript acceptable, but no PC formats or compressed formats please! Please submit papers no later than Monday, March 16, 1998, to: Prof. John Wawrzynek 631 Soda Hall University of California - Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-1776 hotchips10@cs.berkeley.edu Phone (510) 643-9434 FAX (510) 642-5775 For further information about submissions, contact: John Wawrzynek at the above address, or Norman Jouppi at Digital Equipment Corporation 250 University Ave. Palo Alto, CA 94301 (650) 617-3305 jouppi@pa.dec.com General Chair: Allen Baum, Digital Equipment Corporation Program Co-Chairs: Norman Jouppi, Digital Equipment Corporation John Wawrzynek, University of California, Berkeley For HOT Chips 10 Updates: http://www.hotchips.org From rem-conf Fri Feb 20 06:20:46 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 20 06:20:44 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5t7w-0002da-00; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:08:32 -0800 Received: from udecc.engr.udayton.edu [131.238.32.17] by mail1.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y5t7u-0002dQ-00; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:08:30 -0800 Received: from ensun101.UD.Engr by udecc.engr.udayton.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA14759; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:08:24 -0500 X-Organization: University of Dayton, School of Engineering, Dayton OH Received: by ensun101.UD.Engr (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA07308; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:08:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199802201408.JAA07308@ensun101.UD.Engr> Subject: CFP: Arch. Prot. & QoS for Future Internet To: rem-conf@es.net Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:08:29 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: atiq@engr.udayton.edu (Mohammed Atiquzzaman) From: atiq@engr.udayton.edu (Mohammed Atiquzzaman) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit content-length: 3013 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list CALL FOR PAPERS European Transactions on Telecommunications (ETT) Special Issue on ARCHITECTURES, PROTOCOLS AND QUALITY OF SERVICE FOR THE INTERNET OF THE FUTURE Guest Editors: Matteo D'Ambrosio and Mohammed Atiquzzaman Recent advances in switching and transmission technologies allow the implementation of very high speed networks that are changing the face of the Internet. In the next Telecommunication Age it will be possible to support new multimedia applications in a global environment and design new services on flexible platforms without upgrading the physical infrastrucure. In order to reach these goals many researchers are working on defining the new Network Architecture, which will be capable of offering transport and computation services to communication applications with stringent Quality of Service (QoS) requirements. New protocols and node implementations have to be envisioned with this objective in mind. The ETT Journal announces a forthcoming issue on "Architectures, Protocols and Quality of Service For The Internet Of The Future", that will be focused on (but not limited to) the following topics: - New node architectures for Switching and Routing at Gigabit Speeds - Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS): design principles, network architecture and performance - Internetworking with ATM and High Speed Networks to offer QoS guarantees - Multimedia Services running on Heterogeneous Networks - Network and Transport Protocols in the Integrated Services Internet - QoS provision, multicast support and policy capabilities in Routing and Signalling Protocols - Differentiated Services Architectures - Open Control Architectures and Active Networks Prospective authors should email their manuscripts (PostScript format) or send five (5) hard copies to one of the Guest Editors listed below. The following deadlines will apply: - Submission of manuscripts June 30, 1998 - Notification of acceptance November 15, 1998 - Submission of final manuscript December 15, 1998 - Publication Date March-April, 1999 Guest Editors Matteo D'Ambrosio Mohammed Atiquzzaman Networking Department Department of Electrical & CSELT Computer Engineering v. Reiss Romoli 274 University of Dayton 10148 Torino Dayton, Ohio 45469-0226 Italy USA phone: +39 11 2285006 phone: +1 937 229-3183 fax: +39 11 2285069 fax: +1 937 229-4529 e-mail: matteo.dambrosio@cselt.it e-mail: atiq@engr.udayton.edu More information about the special issue can be obtained from http://www.engr.udayton.edu/faculty/matiquzz/ett-cfp.html Note: If a paper is not accepted for the special issue, it will be considered for publication in one of the regular issues of ETT. From rem-conf Sat Feb 21 19:09:52 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sat Feb 21 19:09:51 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y6RZt-0004q3-00; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:55:41 -0800 Received: from (ns.owlseye.com) [208.151.38.212] (owl) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y6RZr-0004pX-00; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:55:39 -0800 Received: (from owl@localhost) by ns.owlseye.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id VAA21540; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:37:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:37:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802220237.VAA21540@ns.owlseye.com> From: owl@owlseye.com To: rem-conf@es.net Reply-To: owl@owlseye.com Subject: Is Your Web Site A Secret? X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list To: rem-conf@es.net Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet? We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $85 and complete the job in 2 business days. Satisfaction is guaranteed! 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Main Street Brewster, NY 10509 Ph: 914-278-4933 Fx: 914-278-4507 E-mail: owlseye@secretwebsite.com From rem-conf Sun Feb 22 20:39:43 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 22 20:39:43 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y6pOI-0002iK-00; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:21:18 -0800 Received: from mail1.indosat.net.id (MAIL1) [202.155.15.21] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y6pOH-0002i3-00; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:21:17 -0800 Received: from baracuda - 202.155.8.194 by indosat.net.id with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:16:02 +0700 Message-ID: <000e01bd4011$fd328490$c2089bca@baracuda.indosat.net.id> Reply-To: "Subagia" From: "Subagia" To: Cc: Subject: Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:17:40 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Dear Sir, I would like to make another change for the Feb 25, 1998, "The Non Aligned Movement - CSSTC" event. The time should be from 03:00 to 04:00 GMT. Thank you very much for your help and assistance. ============================== SUBAGIA Senior Engineer Product Development, Internet Division INDOSAT ( +62-21-3869268) gia@indosat.net.id ============================== From rem-conf Sun Feb 22 20:39:43 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Sun Feb 22 20:39:43 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y6pR9-0002if-00; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:24:15 -0800 Received: from mail1.indosat.net.id (MAIL1) [202.155.15.21] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y6pR8-0002iV-00; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:24:15 -0800 Received: from baracuda - 202.155.8.194 by indosat.net.id with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:19:00 +0700 Message-ID: <001201bd4012$670d3630$c2089bca@baracuda.indosat.net.id> Reply-To: "Subagia" From: "Subagia" To: Cc: Subject: Modifications of MBone Session Agenda [Feb 25,1998] Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:20:38 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Dear Sir, I would like to make another change for the Feb 25, 1998, "The Non Aligned Movement - CSSTC" event. The time should be from 03:00 to 04:00 GMT. Thank you very much for your help and assistance. ============================== SUBAGIA Senior Engineer Product Development, Internet Division INDOSAT ( +62-21-3869268) gia@indosat.net.id ============================== From rem-conf Tue Feb 24 03:05:24 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Feb 24 03:05:23 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y7Hvt-0000Ay-00; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 02:49:53 -0800 Received: from mail1.indosat.net.id (MAIL1) [202.155.15.21] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y7Hvm-0000Ah-00; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 02:49:52 -0800 Received: from baracuda - 202.155.8.194 by indosat.net.id with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:44:13 +0700 Message-ID: <001401bd4111$66c41d60$c2089bca@baracuda.indosat.net.id> Reply-To: "Subagia" From: "Subagia" To: Cc: Subject: TOP URGENT! Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:45:46 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Dear Sir, I am sorry to disturb you again, but I really need your help to change the time for my MBone event at 25th Feb 1998 (The Non Aligned Movement - CSSTC - Jakarta Indonesia). The time should be 03:00 to 04:00 GMT. Since the event will be held tomorrow, pls change it quickly. Thank you for your cooperation. ============================== SUBAGIA Senior Engineer Product Development, Internet Division INDOSAT ( +62-21-3869268) gia@indosat.net.id ============================== From rem-conf Tue Feb 24 22:38:12 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Feb 24 22:38:10 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y7aLX-0007WA-00; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:29:35 -0800 Received: from postal.sdsc.edu [132.249.40.114] ([3wBs8zASBcRTNXbHkJ8hX1d0Darg2Cj0]) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y7aLV-0007W0-00; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:29:33 -0800 Received: from genie.sdsc.edu (genie.sdsc.edu [132.249.40.160]) by postal.sdsc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/SDSCserver-16) with SMTP id WAA04183; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:29:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:29:25 -0800 (PST) From: "T. Todd Elvins" To: scwpf@sdsc.edu, talks@ucsd.edu, talks-ece@ece.ucsd.edu, talks-cse@cs.ucsd.edu, e-club@ucsd.edu, web-watchers -- K Claffy , rem-conf@es.net, webteam@qualcomm.com, webheads@sio.ucsd.edu, java-ucsd@mib.org, flesner@nosc.mil, Greg Johnson Subject: Thursday night - Web Programmers Forum - Lotus and Adobe - Live MBone Broadcast Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Thursday, February 26, 1997, 7pm San Diego Supercomputer Center (SDSC) Auditorium FREE - Two Industry Speakers, Social Hour, Free Munchies Chris Almond, Dickens Data Systems "Lotus Notes/Domino Data Connectors in the IBM Network Computing Framework" John Peterson, Adobe Systems Inc. "The Ceneca/PageMill Story - How four people generated a $10M+ web software business in less than a year." For directions and parking information, see the Southern California Web Programmers Forum home page at www.sdsc.edu/scwpf From rem-conf Wed Feb 25 06:34:42 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 25 06:34:40 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y7hjc-000212-00; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:22:56 -0800 Received: from ps.uib.es (ps) [130.206.33.5] by mail1.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y7hjD-00020Z-00; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:22:31 -0800 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:02:02 +0200 Message-Id: <98022515020247@ps.uib.es> From: tools98@ps.uib.es To: END2END-INTEREST@isi.edu, IETF@isi.edu, F-TROUP@aurora.cis.upenn.edu, ICAD@santafe.edu, REM-CONF@es.net, TCCC@cs.umass.edu, FORTE94_CFP@admin.unibe.ch, COST237-WORKSHOP@comp.lancs.ac.uk, COST237-TRANSPORT@comp.lancs.ac.uk, OSIMCAST@bbn.com, SC6WG4@ntd.comsat.com, RERES@laas.fr, HIPPARCH@sophia.inria.fr, XTP-RELAY@cs.concordia.ca, CSWG%SUNOCO@relay.nswc.navy.mil, ATM-REQUEST@matmos.hpl.hp.com, UTF@cnri.reston.va.us Subject: TOOLS'98 - DEADLINE EXTENSION UNTIL MARCH,10 1998 X-VMS-To: @EXPLODE.TXT X-VMS-Cc: TOOLS98 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list DEADLINE EXTENSION UNTIL MARCH 10, 1998 Call for Papers PERFORMANCE TOOLS'98 10th International Conference on Modelling Techniques and Tools for Computer Performance Evaluation Palma de Mallorca, Spain, September 14 - 18, 1998 Organiser: Universitat de les Illes Balears, Palma, Spain. http://www.uib.es/tools98 In cooperation with: ACM/Sigmetrics IFIP WG 6.3 IFIP WG 7.3 TOPICS PERFORMANCE and DEPENDABILITY ANALYSIS are key factors in the development and improvement of computer systems, centralised as well as distributed, and at all levels of computer networks. But quantitative system assessment will, however, only become standard practice if supported by widely applicable TECHNIQUES and easily usable TOOLS. This conference will be a meeting point where PERFORMANCE and DEPENDABILITY engineers, system builders and managers and tool designers have a common discussion forum. The conference will focus on - software tools for the specification and analysis of quantitative models; - measurement approaches and tools, with an emphasis on their combination with modelling options; - case studies of general interest showing the importance of quantitative analysis; - applications of measurement and modelling techniques and tools; - modelling paradigms and model analysis techniques for quantitative system assessment, with an emphasis on their broad applicability. Conference proceedings will be published by Springer Verlag in Lecture Notes in Computer Science series and will be available at the conference. PROGRAM COMMITTEE CHAIR Ramon PUIGJANER Universitat de les Illes Balears Departament de Ciencies Matematiques i Informatica Carretera de Valldemossa km 7.5 E-07071 PALMA, Spain Tel: +34 71 173288 Fax: +39 71 173003 Email: tools98@ps.uib.es PROGRAM COMMITTEE Gianfranco Balbo (Poltecnico di Torino, IT) Heinz Beilner (Universitaet Dortmund, DE) Maria Calzarossa (Universita di Pavia, IT) Adrian Conway (Racal, US) Larry Dowdy (Vanderbilt University, US) Guenter Haring (Universitaet Wien, AT) Peter Harrison (Imperial College, UK) Boudewijn Haverkort (RWTH Aachen, DE) Peter Hughes (Modicum, UK) Raj Jain (Ohio State University, US) Pieter Kritzinger (University of Capetown, ZA) Allen Malony (University of Oregon, US) Raymond Marie (IRISA, FR) Luisa Massari (Universita di Pavia, IT) Richard Muntz (UCLA, US) Ahmed Patel (University College Dublin, IE) Brigitte Plateau (IMAG, FR) Rob Pooley (University of Edinburgh, UK) Guy Pujolle (PRISM, FR) Daniel Reed (University of Illinois, US) Martin Reiser (GMD, CH) Gerardo Rubino (IRISA, FR) William Sanders (University of Illinois, US) Herb Schwetman (Mesquite, US) Giuseppe Serazzi (Politecnico di Milano, IT) Bartomeu Serra (Universitat de les Illes Balears, ES) Juan-Josi Serrano (Universitat Politecnica de Valencia, ES) Kenneth C. Sevcik (University of Toronto, CA) Connie Smith (Performance Engineering, US) Arne Solvberg (University of Trondheim, NO) Edmundo de Souza e Silva (Universidad Federal do Rio de Janeiro, BR) Otto Spaniol (RWTH Aachen, DE) William Stewart (North Carolina State University, US) Hideaki Takagi (University of Tsukuba, JA) Yutaka Takahashi (AIST Nara, JA) Satish Tripathi (University of California at Riverside, US) Kishor Trivedi (Duke University, US) INFORMATION FOR AUTHORS PAPERS. Submission should contain previously unpublished material and not exceed 20 double-spaced pages of 12 points font. Electronic submission is strongly encouraged via e-mail, as uuencoded PostScript (TM) files. Send it to the Program Committee Chair. For regular mail submission, send six copies of your paper to Ramon Puigjaner Tools'98 Universitat de les Illes Balears Ctra. de Valldemossa km 7.5 E-07071 PALMA (Spain) Every submission should be accompanied by a written undertaking by the authors that, if accepted, one of them will present the paper at the conference. Each accepted paper will be allocated up to ten pages (single spaced 10 points font) in the proceedings. The registration of at least one of the authors should accompany the camera-ready copy. Otherwise the paper will not be included in the conference proceedings. TOOLS. Presentations of analysis tools from both academia and industry are encouraged. Accepted submissions will be presented during a tool session. In addition, tool exhibit booths will be available throughout the duration of the conference. Each tool description will be allocated up to two pages in the proceedings. Submit your proposal to the Program Committee Chair (e-mail preferred), 2 pages length, before April 10. TUTORIALS. The conference will be accompanied by tutorials sessions devoted to basic aspects, new developments and major applications of quantitative techniques and tools. Submit your tutorial proposal to the Program Committee Chair (e-mail preferred) with the objectives and an outline, before April 10. MORE INFORMATION: see at http://www.uib.es/tools98 IMPORTANT DATES FOR PAPER SUBMISSIONS: MARCH 10, 1998: deadline for submissions APRIL 30, 1998: notification of acceptance JUNE 15, 1998: camera-ready version due IMPORTANT DATE FOR TUTORIAL AND TOOL PRESENTATION PROPOSALS: APRIL 10, 1998: deadline for tutorial and tool presentation proposals APRIL 30, 1998: notification of acceptance JULY 31, 1998: tutorial material due ORGANISING COMMITTEE CHAIR Bartomeu SERRA Universitat de les Illes Balears Departament de Ciencies Matematiques i Informatica Carretera de Valldemossa km 7.5 E-07071 PALMA, Spain Tel: +34 71 173128 Fax: +34 71 173003 Email: tools98@ps.uib.es From rem-conf Wed Feb 25 14:26:48 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed Feb 25 14:26:46 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y7pBh-0006DJ-00; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:20:25 -0800 Received: from gloria.cord.edu [138.129.254.6] (root) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y7pBg-0006D8-00; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:20:24 -0800 Received: from myhre.cord.edu (myhre.cord.edu [138.129.107.116]) by gloria.cord.edu (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA02942 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:20:16 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34F49907.1E13@RRNET.COM> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:19:51 -0600 From: DAVE MYHRE X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list I work at a private college and am interested in video conferencing systems that can be interfaced to Ethernet/tcp/ip. Anything you can send me would be appreciated. Thanks, myhre@cord.edu From rem-conf Thu Feb 26 08:19:24 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu Feb 26 08:19:23 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y85oE-00042S-00; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:05:18 -0800 Received: from gloria.cord.edu [138.129.254.6] (root) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y85oD-00042I-00; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:05:17 -0800 Received: from myhre.cord.edu (myhre.cord.edu [138.129.107.116]) by gloria.cord.edu (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA09195 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:05:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980226100402.006a79ac@gloria> X-Sender: myhre@gloria X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:04:02 -0600 To: Nicki Quellette From: Dave Myhre Subject: address Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Nicki---Please send to Dave Myhre Supr/Electronic Services Concordia College 901 8th St. South Moorhead, Minnesota 56562 Thanks David C. Myhre Concordia College Moorhead, MN 56562 (218) 299-4629 From rem-conf Fri Feb 27 03:46:02 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 27 03:46:01 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y8ODC-0002f8-00; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:44:18 -0800 Received: from dxcoms.cern.ch [137.138.28.176] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y8ODB-0002eu-00; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:44:17 -0800 Received: (from fle@localhost) by dxcoms.cern.ch (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17396; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:43:16 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802271143.MAA17396@dxcoms.cern.ch> Subject: MBone broadcast of the CERN ATLAS plenary meeting To: rem-conf@es.net, hepnet-l@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu, HRC@in2p3.fr, htasc@listbox.cern.ch, net-teleconferencing@listbox.cern.ch Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:43:16 +0100 (MET) From: "Martin Fluckiger - CERN/IT/CS" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list CERN is pleased to announce the MBONE broadcast of the ATLAS Plenary Meeting --------------------- on Thursday 5 March 1998 from the CERN Auditorium *** Times are UTC+1 *** Draft Agenda ------------ First part: Main Auditorium 14:00 Introduction and status (P. Jenni) - LHCC matters - Council and Non-Member State matters - decisions of the ATLAS EB since the last Plenary 14:30 Status of preparation and main issues of the April Resources Review Board (P. Schmid) 14:45 Summary and recommendation from the SCT detector evaluation (J. Carter) 15:30 Progress report on the magnet system (H. Ten Kate) 16:15 ---- tea break --- Second Part: Council Chamber 16:45 Recommendation to change the level-1 dead time requirements (P. Farthouat) 17:15 Overview of the work programme for the coming months (T. Akesson) 17:45 Schedules, experimental area, TC meeting agenda (H. Hoffmann) 18:15 Brief announcements (P. Jenni) 18:20 ---- end of the Plenary session The broadcast is announced via sdr as "CERN ATLAS". vat and vic applications will be used with a ttl of 127. The sessions will also be recorded using the wrtp application. They can be downloaded from our vod server: http://sunmed2.cern.ch/cgi-bin/nph-MBone-sessions/ In case of questions or problems please contact: multicast@noc.cern.ch This message is sent to distribution lists, sorry if you receive multiple copies of it. Best regards, -------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Fluckiger & Christian Isnard CERN - CN/CS/EN multicast@noc.cern.ch European Laboratory for Particle Physics Computers and Networks division CH-1211 Geneva 23 - Switzerland From rem-conf Fri Feb 27 03:46:02 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 27 03:46:01 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y8O8s-0002eP-00; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:39:50 -0800 Received: from dxcoms.cern.ch [137.138.28.176] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y8O8q-0002e8-00; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:39:48 -0800 Received: (from fle@localhost) by dxcoms.cern.ch (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08423; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:38:47 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802271138.MAA08423@dxcoms.cern.ch> Subject: MBone broadcast of the CERN LHCC session To: rem-conf@es.net, hepnet-l@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu, HRC@in2p3.fr, htasc@listbox.cern.ch, net-teleconferencing@listbox.cern.ch Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:38:46 +0100 (MET) From: "Martin Fluckiger - CERN/IT/CS" Cc: fle@dxcoms.cern.ch (Martin Fluckiger) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list CERN is pleased to announce the MBONE broadcast of the LARGE HADRON COLLIDER COMMITTEE Session --------------------------------------- on Tuesday 3 March from the CERN Auditorium *** Times are UTC+1 *** Open Session at 09.00 hrs - Auditorium 09.00-10.45 LHC-B Technical Proposal (T.Nakada, H-J. Hilke) 10.45-11.15 COFFEE BREAK 11.15-12.00 B physics with ATLAS (P.Eerola) 12.00-12.45 B physics with CMS (D.Denegri) The broadcast is announced via sdr as "CERN LHCC". vat and vic applications will be used with a ttl of 127. In case of questions or problems please contact: multicast@noc.cern.ch This message is sent to distribution lists, sorry if you receive multiple copies of it. Best regards, -------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Fluckiger & Christian Isnard CERN - IT/CS/EN multicast@noc.cern.ch European Laboratory for Particle Physics Computers and Networks division CH-1211 Geneva 23 - Switzerland From rem-conf Fri Feb 27 15:21:52 1998 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri Feb 27 15:21:51 1998 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y8Ypj-000190-00; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:04:47 -0800 Received: from intergate.usr.com (mw.3com.com) [149.112.20.3] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 0y8Ypg-00018p-00; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:04:44 -0800 Received: from mwgate02.mw.3com.com by mw.3com.com (8.8.5/3.1.090690-US Robotics) id RAA09880; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:08:13 -0600 (CST) Received: by mwgate02.mw.3com.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 862565B8.007EE2AD ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:05:55 -0600 X-Lotus-FromDomain: 3COM@3COM-MWGATE From: "Guido Schuster" To: rem-conf@es.net Message-ID: <862565B8.007C851B.00@mwgate02.mw.3com.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:07:31 -0600 Subject: marker bit recovery using RS coders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hello, I have a question about "An RTP Payload Format for Generic Forward Error Correction". I would like to use a Reed Solomon erasure coder working over GF(2^8). Hence I cannot apply the function f() [the RS coder] to the Marker Bit, since I need Bytes to apply the function. The same holds true for the Payload type (7 Bits). I suggest to combine the marker bit and the payload type into one special byte, and then apply f() and write the result back into the FEC marker bit and the PT recovery field. This is not exactly what the draft proposes, though, for a XOR based scheme, this will result in exactly the same marker bit and payload type as the proposed solution and for a RS GF(2^8) it still works. In general, I think we should add this special Byte to the Media data, apply f() over the extended Media data and then write the first Byte of the FEC into the Marker bit and the PT recovery field. This way, we do not impose any dimension on the Galois field for the erasure code. Any comments? Guido