From rem-conf Tue May 02 11:13:36 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue May 02 11:13:34 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12mgte-0002Gl-00; Tue, 2 May 2000 10:55:46 -0700 Received: from gumby.cs.berkeley.edu [128.32.32.38] (root) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12mgtc-0002Gb-00; Tue, 2 May 2000 10:55:44 -0700 Received: from sockeye (sockeye.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.36.74]) by gumby.cs.berkeley.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16496; Tue, 2 May 2000 10:31:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20000502103000.0094da50@plateau.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Sender: florissa@plateau.cs.berkeley.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 10:30:00 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: Florissa Colina Subject: 5/3 Design and Evaluations of Multimedia Proxy Caching Mechanisms for the Internet -- Reza Rejaie, AT&T Labs - Research Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Berkeley Multimedia, Graphics and Interfaces Seminar Design and Evaluations of Multimedia Proxy Caching Mechanisms for the Internet Wednesday May 3, 2000 1:10-2:30 p.m. PDT Fujitsu Seminar Room (405 Soda Hall) Reza Rejaie AT&T Labs - Research Most of the existing Internet multimedia streaming applications are based on the client-server architecture. This architecture has two major limitations: 1) The quality of delivered streams is limited to the bottleneck bandwidth between the server and the client. Thus a client with a high bandwidth local connectivity may receive low quality streams due to a remote bottleneck. 2) Its scalability is limited, in that it is difficult to support a large number of concurrent high quality sessions due to network and server load. Multimedia proxy caching (MCaching) is a natural extension of the client-server architecture that addresses both limitations simultaneously. The idea is to cache popular streams with appropriate quality at a proxy close to interested clients. Thus the proxy can effectively enhance the delivered quality and improve scalability by significantly reducing the load on the network and the server. In this talk, we address the design and performance evaluations of MCaching mechanisms. First the design of an efficient MCaching mechanism for layered-encoded streams is outlined. We observe that in addition to cache efficiency (measured by hit ratio), MCaching introduces the notion of ``quality'' for delivered streams as a new dimension to Web caching. Thus performance of MCaching mechanisms should be collectively evaluated along both dimensions caching efficiency and delivered quality. We identify a fundamental tradeoff between these two dimensions. Our simulation results show that our proposed MCaching design can adaptively exploit this tradeoff to improve overall performance whereas simple extension of current Web caching schemes can only enhance the performance along one dimension. --------------- The seminar is broadcast live on the Internet Mbone and as a Real Networks G2 broadcast. You can connect to the live RealNetworks broadcast at: http://media2.bmrc.berkeley.edu/bibs/schedule.cfm You'll see a link to cs298-5/real networks/live programs. You can also directly put in this url into the Real Player: rtsp://media2.bmrc.berkeley.edu/encoder/cs298-5.rm To do so you will need to have the "Real Player G2" installed, which is available from: http://www.real.com/products/player/downloadrealplayer.html To tune into the Internet MBone broadcast, look for the announcement in your MBone session directory program ('sdr'). If you are not receiving the announcement you may be able to receive the session by manually configuring the client programs ('vic', and 'vat') with the session addresses: low bit rate video: 233.0.25.1/22334 audio: 233.0.25.2/22446 medium bit rate video: 233.0.25.129/22334 audio: 233.0.25.2/22446 You can get further information about this seminar, and access to replays of previous seminars at the MIG Seminar web page: http://bmrc.berkeley.edu/298/index.html Sponsored by the Berkeley Multimedia Research Center From rem-conf Wed May 03 01:45:58 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 01:45:57 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12mudj-0002Nr-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 01:36:15 -0700 Received: from dyn83.access4.nyc.i-2000.net (oemcomputer) [207.97.128.248] by mail1.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12mude-0002Nh-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 01:36:12 -0700 From: "Scott" To: Subject: The BEST PRICES on Ink-Jet and Toner cartridges ANYWHERE!!! 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TOLL FREE - 1-877-302-8025 From rem-conf Wed May 03 04:32:38 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 04:32:35 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12mxKP-0004MY-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 04:28:29 -0700 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk [128.16.5.31] by mail1.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12mxKI-0004MO-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 04:28:24 -0700 Received: from eucharisto.cs.ucl.ac.uk by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with local SMTP id ; Wed, 3 May 2000 12:28:11 +0100 To: rem-conf@es.net Subject: Draft AVT minutes Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:28:10 +0100 Message-ID: <4550.957353290@cs.ucl.ac.uk> From: Colin Perkins X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Folks, A first draft of the AVT minutes from the Adelaide meeting is attached below. Please send any comments to me by Monday 8th May, so I can submit these to the secretariat. Note that copies of the presentation slides are available at http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/misc/avt/IETF47/slides/ Thanks, Colin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Minutes of the Audio/Video Transport Working Group Reported by Colin Perkins and Steve Casner. The audio/video transport working group met twice at the 47th IETF in Adelaide. In the first session the group discussed the update of the RTP specification, work on a new profile for unicast RTP with retransmission, and RTP header compression and multiplexing. The second session included discussion of a number of payload formats, transport of MPEG-4, and authentication of RTP streams. The meeting started with a review of work in progress. A number of RFCs have been published since the last meeting: - RTP payload format for generic FEC (RFC 2733) - Guidelines for authors of RTP payload formats (RFC 2736) - Sampling group membership (RFC 2762) In addition, a number of drafts are with the IESG, awaiting publication: - RTP MIB - RTP payload format for DMTF tones - RTP payload format for real-time pointers The working group last call on the RTP specification and audio/video profile concluded at the Washington DC meeting, and the set of edits agreed at that meeting were completed in January, resulting in draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-06.txt and draft-ietf-avt-profile-new-08.txt. A number of additional minor edits have since been made to the RTP specification, based on comments made on the mailing list, leading to draft-ietf-avt-rtp-new-07.txt. Updates for the profile text on G.729 and G.723.1 have been received from the ITU-T, but have yet to be incorporated. Considering the companion documents to the RTP specification, the MIME registration document (draft-ietf-avt-rtp-mime-02.txt) has had L16 pre-emphasis parameters added, whilst the RTCP bandwidth modifiers document (draft-ietf-avt-rcp-bw-01.txt) has not changed (just an increase in version number, to prevent the draft expiring). Both of these are intended for proposed standard. The RTP specification and audio/video profile are considered ready for IETF last call, however they cannot be issued as draft standard RFCs until an interoperability statement has been produced. The current status of the testing was presented by Colin Perkins. There are a number of drafts listing interoperability requirements and testing strategies: - draft-ietf-avt-rtp-interop-02.txt - draft-ietf-avt-profile-interop-00.txt - draft-ietf-avt-rtptest-02.txt which have not changed since the last meeting. There is also a web page http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/mist/avt/RTPinterop/ showing the current status. It was noted that progress has been slow and that we urgently require interoperability statements from implementors of rtp and the audio/video profile. In particular, please contact the working group chairs if you have an implementation which implements any of the following features of RTP: padding, header extension, SDES PHONE/LOC/PRIV, BYE with multiple SSRC/reason text, RTCP APP packets, encryption, RTCP reconsideration algorithms and step join back-off, SSRC collision/loop detection, modification of the RTCP bandwidth fraction, or transport using TCP. Furthermore, if you have implemented any of the following codecs and have tested against another implementation, please contact the chairs: 1016, G.726-32, G.723, G.722, QCELP, G.728, G.729, GSM HR/EFR, PCMA, CellB, JPEG, MPT, MP1S, MP2P, BMPEG, H.263, H.263+, BT.656. The other area of discussion relating to the base RTP specification was congestion control. Steve Casner noted that the IESG are concerned that RTP does not implement congestion control, and that this has the potential to harm the network. Other protocols are required to have congestion control to advance on the standards track, why should RTP be exempt? It was suggested that the requirements for congestion control are, to some extent, profile specific: it makes sense to include a warning of the dangers of not implementing congestion control in the main RTP specification, but to defer details to the profiles. A number of people agreed with this, noting also that there is not much more we can design in right now, but a discussion of how to do congestion control would be a useful addition - exploring the design space for adaptation, and why it's needed. Mark Handley noted that we have work ongoing with the retransmission profile for unicast, which needs to have strong congestion control. The existing A/V profile also needs a discussion of the TCP-equivalent rate and when to stop or adapt if your loss rate exceeds that. Steve Casner asked if the existing feedback from RTCP was sufficient to perform rate adaptation for congestion control. Mark Handley answered that it probably was not, but should be sufficient to know when to leave the session. The consensus of the group was that the main RTP spec will mention that congestion control is important, but will defer to the profiles for the details. Mark Handley volunteered to write the congestion control section for the A/V profile, which he did before end of this IETF. The suggested text will be discussed on the mailing list. The next items for discussion were retransmission schemes for RTP packets, and RTCP reporting extensions. Colin Perkins presented work on RTCP Reporting Extensions for Timur Friedman (draft-friedman-avt-rtcp-report-extns-00.txt). This proposes a framework to extend SR/RR packets, using profile specific reporting extensions. This comprises a minimal header (two fields only: type and length) with several proposed uses: - Run length encoding (RLE) of the packet loss pattern - RLE of duplicates - List of timestamps - Detailed loss/duplicate/jitter statistics The motivation for the work is that RTCP SR/RR packets include limited information, and a number of applications (e.g. MINC and MRM) can use extended statistics if provided in a uniform format. There are a number of open issues: How to handle large extensions? Include all extensions? Some? Which? As extensions to the SR/RR reception report array, or in a separate APP packet? Feedback is solicited. The next presentation was on the subject of RTCP-based retransmission (draft-podolsky-avt-rtptx-01.txt) by Koichi Yano. The changes from the previous version include: - Now posed as a new profile, RTP/RX, which inherits the A/V profile, except for the RTCP interval (it allows immediate NACKs, but still keeps the average bandwidth limit) and the provision of a new RTCP packet type for NACKs (including first sequence number, 16 bit loss bitmap, and SSRC) - The SSRC is now included in NACK packets - It has been simplified: only for NACK (former draft defined a multi-purpose ACK, but NACK is enough for most purposes) - Removed RX-protocol sybtype and flag fields (for simplicity, ease of implementation) The need for congestion control to be well specified and non-optional in this profile was noted. Mark Handley stated that we have to assume that loss is due to congestion, this means that just re-transmitting lost packets is something we have to be very careful of, since it can lead to a positive feedback loop, worsening congestion. The TCP equivalent throughput should be considered to be the maximum acceptable rate for a scheme such as this. It was also noted that retransmissions bias your loss fraction sample, since by definition, they are only sent when the network is congested and likely to drop packets. The effects of retransmission on RTCP receiver reports were discussed (e.g. should packets repaired by retransmission be included in the loss fraction?), as was the possibility to extend the RR to include the number of NACKs sent, requested packets, duplicates, etc. Another open issue is how to denote the loss bitmap. As the first sequence number plus bitmap or as the last sequence number plus bitmap? It was noted that there are a number of security implications to this profile: for example, the potential for denial of service due to bogus NACKs, especially if multicast is used. Also NACKs may need to include an unpredictable nonce/cookie, to make this difficult to spoof. Finally, the NACK format is deployable for multicast, but does it make sense? Note that retransmission is being considered only for unicast at this point pending further work in the Reliable Multicast Research Group and RMT working group. The next steps for this draft are as follows: - Re-issue as an AVT work item (draft-ietf-avt-...) - Add more description relating to SDP, RTSP - Add more description of sender and receiver's recommended behavior - Implement and test The final presentation in this area was an RTP payload for selective retransmission (draft-miyazaki-avt-rtp-selret-00) presented by Carsten Burmeister. The target applications for this payload format are streaming applications over wireless links which have a high bit error rate, which implies non-congestive packet loss, hence a retransmission scheme is useful (just the important data, if possible). The draft defines a new payload format, with header additions to mark important packets, together with a retransmission request scheme. A number of comments were made following this presentation: - It was noted that there are IPR consideration with this proposal. - Steve Casner noted that it is not clear that a payload format is the right thing to do here. Either this scheme is specific to MPEG, in which case it should be merged with the MPEG payload format, or it should be a new RTP profile. - Some meeting participants did not like the use of two payload type identifiers, when a single one would be sufficient. The introduction of excess de-multiplexing points is to be avoided. - Concern was raised that the necessary changes to RTCP timing rules have not been addressed. - A comment was made that the idea of marking important packets within an application level header is `hackish'. It may be better to multiplex under different connections (e.g. all the I frames in one stream, P frames in a different one) using the UDP/IP layer as a multiplex (e.g. use different UDP ports, or a different diffserv TOS). This section of the meeting concluded with the suggestion that this proposal could be combined with the previous. The next section of the meeting discussed RTP compression and multiplexing. The first presentation was by Tmima Koren on enhancements to CRTP. This work makes CRTP more robust to packet loss, and allows it to work better on high delay links. Discussion related to whether the extra complexity of this form of compressed packet is justified by the efficiency gain. It was noted that we need to introduce this complexity to correct for the non-constant increment of the IP-ID. Carsten Bormann asked how much we care about preserving the IP-ID, since it's redundant if DF is set. It was noted that the IESG have previously expressed pushback on schemes which don't protect the IP-ID. If we consider patterns of the IP-ID, can we reduce the number of bits (e.g. we may be able to send the least significant bits of the IP-ID in many common cases). We don't always need 16 bits for this. How much do we care about backwards compatibility with RFC2508, since we have to negotiate use of this extension anyway? Are these changes the correct ones to make when moving CRTP to draft standard? These questions require further discussion on the mailing list. Carsten Bormann gave a pointer to the robust header compression working group, which is doing related work. Bruce Thompson presented tunnel compressed RTP (draft-ietf-avt-tcrtp-00.txt). The scheme proposed in the original draft submitted in Oslo (draft-wing-avt- tcrtp-00.txt) has since been broken into distinct parts: IP Tunneling, PPP Multiplexing, and CRTP with enhancements. The current draft reflects this split, and describes how those parts fit together. It was noted that the bandwidth efficiency of multiplexing in this manner is equivalent to CRTP, once 3-4 calls are multiplexed. Steve Casner noted that this is intended to be the standard multiplexing solution for RTP streams in place of other "RTP multiplexing" schemes discussed previously in AVT. Comments from the authors of the other schemes on the suitability of this solution would be greatly appreciated. In the last presentation of the first day, Lou Berger discussed the extension of CRTP to work with MPLS (draft-berger-mpls-hdr-comp-00.txt, draft-berger-mpls-hdr-comp-over-ppp-00.txt). This work will be done in the MPLS working group, in conjunction with AVT. Open issues include: - A bit naming collision with draft-koren-avt-crtp-enhance-01.txt (both define a bit named "N" in different locations) - The current draft doesn't support the CRTP enhancements introduced by Koren - Should MPLS/IP header compression over PPP reuse the same packet type values as IP header compression or new values to allow for easier debugging? The second day of the meeting comprised discussion of RTP payload formats for a number of codecs. The first of these was the G.722.1 payload format (draft-ietf-avt-rtp-g7221-00.txt) presented by Steve Casner for Tony Crossman. This is a straight forward payload format, with one or more codec frames being packed into an RTP packet with no additional payload header. It was noted that G.722.1 is specified to use 16kHz RTP timestamp clock (unlike G.722 which was mistakenly specified to use an 8kHz clock which is retained for backward compatibility). G.722.1 also supports several data rates, which must be signaled out of band. A number of drafts were submitted relating to the RTP payload format for the AMR speech codec. The current status of this work was presented by Johan Sjoberg and Ari Lakaniemi. It has been agreed that the authors of these drafts will merge them into a single draft over the next few weeks. In addition, the MIME type registration will be merged into the payload format document, and an additional document will be referenced to specify the storage format. The RTP payload formats for DV audio/video were presented by Katsushi Kobayashi. Changes to the DV video format are minor. The major discussion point was if audio-only streams should be sent as DV format, or converted to, for example, L16. It was decided to leave the current specification unchanged in recommending that audio-only streams be converted to a native format. We also discussed how to specify audio channels, since DV allows for more channels than the AIFF-C convention used in the A/V profile, hence an SDP attribute may be needed to define the channel ordering. This is only needed when sending the data unbundled from DV, as native audio. This can clearly be defined for the new audio formats specified here, but does it make sense to allow this channel specification to be applied to L16 format? Should it be allowed for channel specifications which fit into the AIFF-C convention? Carsten Bormann stated the question as: can we just add, after the fact, a=fmtp parameters to existing payload formats? I.e. can this be written to apply to L16 also? Do we need to revise the L16 MIME registration? After some discussion Steve Casner noted that the group consensus was to go ahead and define this SDP method. The RTP payload formats for HDTV and AC3 audio were discussed by Allison Mankin. She noted that a lot of implementation work has been conducted since the last meeting (by the University of Washington, 3com, and Tektronics) and this has lead to a number of changes in the drafts, and some issues remain. Bill Nowicki has asked if this can be written as a payload format for any kind of uncompressed video, to make it more generic? It has also been noted that a breakdown on which SMPTE standards should be included here needs to be added: there are compressed (but still high bandwidth) payloads which may need a format. It is not entirely clear which way to cut the document, and advice is solicited. It is also unclear if 1920 scanlines is enough. It is now, but what about in future? Can we use SDP signaling to save bits in the header but still allow a wider scanline range? What about the Vertical Blanking Interval? This has been left out of the current draft, to be thought about (since it increases the data rate significantly). Several people have wanted to include this, so it will most likely go back in. Is a 90kHz timestamp sufficient? Finally, a plea was made for anyone who has implemented RTP in hardware to contact Allison; insights are sought... Ross Finlayson presented a revision of the more-loss-tolerant payload format for MP3 audio (draft-ietf-avt-rtp-mp3-01.txt). Since the previous version, the draft has been updated to include optional support for interleaving (as discussed in Washington DC), and the process by which this is achieved was described. Feedback is solicited, and it was proposed to advance this document to proposed standard after next meeting. A question was asked regarding performance analysis, relative to RFC 2250. The payload format just moves bytes around compared to RFC 2250, and is not expected to be significantly processor intensive. Subjective tests show it sounds better, but these were not done in a very scientific manner. MP2 transport stream extensions were presented by Steve Casner for Humphrey Liu. This draft extends RFC 2250 to allow an alternate RTP timestamp clock rate of 27MHz so that the every MPEG packet in a 40Mb/s multi-program MPEG transport stream can be positioned accurately in time, and defines a "piecewise CBR" method to reconstruct timing at the receiver. At the last AVT meeting, some participants questioned whether this would work. Since the last meeting, work has been underway on experimental validation of the draft. This work was outlined, and it was noted that it seems to work so far, but more experiments are needed. The discussion of MPEG-4 was introduced by Colin Perkins, with a review of the consensus from the last meeting. It was noted that: - We should allow MPEG-4 elementary stream codecs to be packetized in a manner similar to other codecs, with standards track payload formats. The group has adopted draft-ietf-avt-rtp-mpeg4-es-00.txt as a work item, for eventual submission to the standards track. - Multiplexed MPEG-4 media is to be treated in a similar manner to earlier bundled MPEG transport. Hence, we will consider a FlexMux payload format if one is submitted. - We do not believe we fully understand the issues involved in the transport of the complete MPEG-4 system over RTP. Hence we will submit such payload formats for publication as experimental RFCs, whilst we gain implementation experience. At present we have two such payload formats: draft-ietf-avt-rtp-mpeg4-02.txt and draft-ietf-avt-mpeg4streams-00.txt The primary focus of the discussion at this meeting was the payload format for elementary streams, and in particular the transport of back-channel information. We also had an update on one of the formats for the complete system, the other payload format (draft-ietf-avt-rtp-mpeg4-02.txt) has not changed since the last meeting. The payload format for elementary streams (draft-ietf-avt-rtp-mpeg4-es-00.txt) was presented by Yoshihiro Kikuchi. Changes since the last meeting include: - The marker bit in the visual format has changed from marking random access points to marking the last packet in a VOP (for consistency with other video formats). - The timestamp resolution has a default of 90KHz, for consistency with other MPEG formats. - The specification has been updated to match changes in MPEG-4 Version 2 in the move from FPDAM to FDAM. There were also several minor editorial changes. A number of interoperability tests have also been conducted, successfully. The payload format for elementary streams also includes an RTCP format for MPEG-4 backward channel messages, such as NEWPRED error resilience. This was presented by Shigeru Fukunaga. A number of issues were noted: - Timing of Sending RTCP: RTCP packets should be sent as soon as possible, the issues are much as in the re-transmission profiles. Is a new profile required here? - Multicast or Unicast: NEWPRED is workable with small scale multicast, but it is probably desirable to restrict this to unicast. - Congestion Control: There is no description in the current draft (congestion control may not be a major issue, since the data rate of a media stream is not increased when NEWPRED is in use; although there is the additional backtraffic). - Should be backchannel information be transported in RTCP or in a separate RTP stream? The consensus of the group was that RTCP is appropriate. - What should be the format of compound RTCP packets which include these backchannel messages? Steve Casner noted that he thinks this doesn't need a new profile, but we may need to relax some of the rules in the RTP spec to allow this. Carsten Bormann noted that this is not the first codec which needs a backchannel, and won't be the last one (for example, H.263+ needs a similar backchannel). Having a common means for sending these backchannel messages would be nice. Maybe a more generic RTCP extension (profile addition)? Jonathan Rosenberg noted that a common backchannel may just be a namespace. Or do we have more information in common? Carsten Bormann noted that the value here is more in getting the other issues out of the way - bandwidth and timing issues, etc. Steve Casner concluded with the chairs' view that we should proceed with the definition of this backchannel scheme as is, and consider a more general solution in future. Paul Christ presented draft-ietf-avt-mpeg4streams-00.txt. Changes since the previous draft include: - Adoption as an AVT work item for eventual submission as an experimental RFC, hence the name change (from draft-guillemot-avt-genrtp-03.txt). - Flexmux section added, see draft-rgcc-flexmuxmpeg4- 00.txt - Payload Type: Different payload types should be assigned for ES, SL-PDU and FlexMux streams. A payload type in the dynamic range should be chosen. - TSOFFSET removed, E bits included Steve Casner asked if this is ready for working group last call for experimental? Paul Christ noted that there are RTCP retransmission issues to be resolved (NEWPRED, etc). Further discussion is needed, but if retransmission is not relevant it is ready for last call. The final presentation of the day was by Michael Thomas, summarizing the PacketCable security extensions to RTP. There are two main goals of this work: providing privacy and integrity for media, and selecting algorithms friendly to large PSTN gateways. RTP header and payload are to be covered by an MMH MAC, placed as a trailer in the packet; the payload is to be protected by RC-4 encryption. It is hoped that a draft will be submitted describing this work in time for the next meeting. It should also be noted that there are several proposals for insertion of the MAC: hide it in RTP padding, use a header extension, or use a profile extension to specify a fixed-length trailer. Further discussion is clearly needed. Due to lack of time, the meeting closed at this point. The final agenda item - charter bashing - was omitted. It should be noted that the last milestone on our charter was in November 1999, and we actually completed most milestones! It's now time to re-charter or close-down the group, and since we still have ongoing work, we propose to re-charter. The chairs' proposal, which will be elaborated in more detail on the mailing list, is to include the following items in the revised charter: - Move RTP to draft standard (needs interoperability statements, and a discussion of congestion control) - RTP Multiplexing (move the TCRTP framework to BCP) - Transport of MPEG-4 - ES format to proposed - Formats for complete system to experimental - FlexMux? - Applicability statement (informational) - New RTP profile including unicast retransmission and congestion control - Authentication of RTP streams - New profile? Padding? Header extension? - Ongoing development of payload formats This is a preliminary suggestion only; comments from the working group are solicited. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rem-conf Wed May 03 08:54:18 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 08:54:16 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n1KW-0007Df-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 08:44:52 -0700 Received: from turin.trillium.com [206.216.108.218] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n1KV-0007Cm-01; Wed, 3 May 2000 08:44:51 -0700 Received: from aiglos.trillium.com (unverified) by turin.trillium.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 08:54:24 -0700 Received: from aega.trillium.com (aega.trillium.com [192.168.1.19]) by aiglos.trillium.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20678 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 08:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by aega.trillium.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 3 May 2000 08:42:47 -0700 Message-ID: <8BBD33A986C5D311804000902719FF5D0870F2@aega.trillium.com> From: Tim Chen To: "'rem-conf@es.net'" Subject: FW: Current RTP-MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP sessio n? Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 08:42:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list > Hello, > > I see a problem with current "RTP session" definition in RTP MIB > . > This MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP session which is clearly > permissible under section 3 of RFC 1889: > > RTP session: The association among a set of participants communicating > with RTP. For each participant, the session is defined by a particular > pair of destination transport addresses (one network address plus a port > pair for RTP and RTCP). The destination transport address pair may be > common for all participants, as in the case of IP multicast, or may be > different for each, as in the case of individual unicast network addresses > plus a common port pair. > > Hence each participant in an RTP session could have > a different RTP receive address. The only requirement > from the specs is that the RTP and RTCP port pair used by all participants > has to be the same. For example, I can have the following > RTP session with three participants, each receiving RTP packets > on a different IP address: > > participant A : receive RTP on 103.403.25.45 port 6000 > participant B : receive RTP on 103.403.33.34 port 6000 > participant C : receive RTP on 103.403.25.98 port 6000 > > So for participant A, he will send to two remote addresses: > 103.403.33.34:6000 (that B listens to) and 103.403.25.98:6000 > (that C listens to). > > However, the current RTP session MIB draft (page 10) has the > following structure: > > RtpSessionEntry ::= SEQUENCE { > rtpSessionIndex Integer32, > rtpSessionDomain TDomain, > rtpSessionRemAddr TAddress, > rtpSessionLocAddr TAddress, > rtpSessionIfIndex InterfaceIndex, > rtpSessionSenderJoins Counter32, > rtpSessionReceiverJoins Counter32, > rtpSessionByes Counter32, > rtpSessionStartTime TimeStamp, > rtpSessionMonitor TruthValue, > rtpSessionRowStatus RowStatus > } > > This definition allows only a single remote address. This > is contradictory to RFC 1889 which clearly permits > multiple remote addresses in a single RTP session. > > Will the authors of this MIB give some clarification? Thanks. > > > Regards, > Tim Chen > > From rem-conf Wed May 03 09:11:51 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 09:11:51 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n1ff-0000S1-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:06:43 -0700 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n1fd-0000Rp-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:06:41 -0700 Received: from SMTP (fmsmsxvs01-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.201]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.22 2000/04/06 17:58:51 dmccart Exp $) with SMTP id QAA21203 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 16:07:28 GMT Received: from fmsmsx17.intel.com ([132.233.48.17]) by 132.233.48.201 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Wed, 03 May 2000 16:06:40 0000 (GMT) Received: by fmsmsx17.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:06:38 -0700 Message-ID: <7DAA70BEB463D211AC3E00A0C96B7AB20344B7B2@orsmsx41.jf.intel.com> From: "Strahm, Bill" To: "'rem-conf@es.net'" Subject: FW: Current RTP-MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP sessio n? Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:06:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list My comments inline ______________________________________________ Bill Strahm Programming today is a race between bill.strahm@ software engineers striving to build intel.com bigger and better idiot-proof programs, (503) 264-4632 and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.--Rich Cook I am not speaking for Intel. And Intel rarely speaks for me > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Chen [mailto:scc@trillium.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 5:19 PM > To: ITU-SG16@mailbag.cps.intel.com > Cc: 'mbaugher@passedge.com'; 'bill.strahm@intel.com'; > 'irina@ennovatenetworks.com'; Michael Bird > Subject: Current RTP-MIB definition precludes multi-unicast > RTP session? > > > Hello, > > I see a problem with current "RTP session" definition in RTP MIB > . > This MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP session which > is clearly > permissible under section 3 of RFC 1889: > > RTP session: The association among a set of participants > communicating with > RTP. For each participant, the session is defined by a > particular pair of > destination transport addresses (one network address plus a > port pair for > RTP and RTCP). The destination transport address pair may be > common for all > participants, as in the case of IP multicast, or may be > different for each, > as in the case of individual unicast network addresses plus a > common port > pair. > > Hence each participant in an RTP session could have > a different RTP receive address. The only requirement > from the specs is that the RTP and RTCP port pair used by all > participants > has to be the same. For example, I can have the following > RTP session with three participants, each receiving RTP packets > on a different IP address: > > participant A : receive RTP on 103.403.25.45 port 6000 > participant B : receive RTP on 103.403.33.34 port 6000 > participant C : receive RTP on 103.403.25.98 port 6000 > > So for participant A, he will send to two remote addresses: > 103.403.33.34:6000 (that B listens to) and 103.403.25.98:6000 > (that C listens to). > > However, the current RTP session MIB draft (page 10) has the > following structure: > > RtpSessionEntry ::= SEQUENCE { > rtpSessionIndex Integer32, > rtpSessionDomain TDomain, > rtpSessionRemAddr TAddress, > rtpSessionLocAddr TAddress, > rtpSessionIfIndex InterfaceIndex, > rtpSessionSenderJoins Counter32, > rtpSessionReceiverJoins Counter32, > rtpSessionByes Counter32, > rtpSessionStartTime TimeStamp, > rtpSessionMonitor TruthValue, > rtpSessionRowStatus RowStatus > } > > This definition allows only a single remote address. This > is contradictory to RFC 1889 which clearly permits > multiple remote addresses in a single RTP session. > > Will the authors of this MIB give some clarification? Thanks. > I see each one of these as seperate channels, with different feedback streams. Therefor participant A would have a RtpSessionEntry for A->B and A->C, participant B would have B->A and B->C etc. Yes this doesn't scale very well as you add many participants, but then neither does sending multiple copies of the same stream, so I think it is a wash. To clarify. The RtpReceiverEntry needs to have the feedback for just ONE receiver anyway, so why not model it as multiple unicast flows (since that is indeed what we have here) I do not see a problem Bill Strahm From rem-conf Wed May 03 09:29:12 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 09:29:11 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n1wk-0001KI-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:24:22 -0700 Received: from marjan.fesb.hr [161.53.166.3] (root) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n1wc-0001Ju-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:24:17 -0700 Received: from jurica (jurica.fesb.hr [161.53.166.43]) by marjan.fesb.hr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28452; Wed, 3 May 2000 16:06:36 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <060601bfb509$c1e66c20$2ba635a1@fesb.hr> From: "SoftCOM Secretary" To: "SoftCOM Mailing List" Subject: Second Call for Papers Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:07:37 +0200 Organization: FESB, University of Split MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Dear All A Gentle Reminder * Kindly ignore this email if you have received this before. Please give * this remainder to your coleagues that might be interested. Thank you for your kind attention and cooperation. *********************************************************** The 8th IEEE International Conference on Software, Telecommunications and Computer networks (SoftCOM 2000) will be held from October 11-14, 2000 aboard the luxury ship Marko Polo travelling on the route Split (Croatia) - Rijeka (Croatia) - Trieste (Italy) - Venice (Italy) - Dubrovnik (Croatia). The aim of the conference is to provide an international forum for experts to promote, share and discuss various issues and developments in the broad field of telecommunication and computer networks. We thus seek and solicit your contributions in the form of original/unpublished papers, tutorials, and topics for special sessions/panel discussions. More information on the scope of the conference and the guidelines for the submission of contributions can be obtained at this web site: http://www.fesb.hr/SoftCOM We look forward to your participation. Thank you. SoftCOM 2000 Organizing Committee From rem-conf Wed May 03 09:53:29 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 09:53:28 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n2J3-0002Lo-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:47:25 -0700 Received: from turin.trillium.com [206.216.108.218] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n2J2-0002LU-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:47:24 -0700 Received: from aiglos.trillium.com (unverified) by turin.trillium.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:56:57 -0700 Received: from aega.trillium.com (aega.trillium.com [192.168.1.19]) by aiglos.trillium.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21984; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by aega.trillium.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 3 May 2000 09:45:20 -0700 Message-ID: <8BBD33A986C5D311804000902719FF5D0870F5@aega.trillium.com> From: Tim Chen To: "'Strahm, Bill'" , "'rem-conf@es.net'" , ITU-SG16@mailbag.cps.intel.com Cc: Michael Bird Subject: RE: Current RTP-MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP sessio n? Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:45:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Bill, Thank you for your reply. However, I am not convinced that multi-unicast RTP session MIB is properly handled in the current RTP MIB draft. Please find my comments below. > I see each one of these as seperate channels, with different feedback > streams. Therefor participant A would have a RtpSessionEntry > for A->B and > A->C, participant B would have B->A and B->C etc. Yes this > doesn't scale > very well as you add many participants, but then neither does sending > multiple copies of the same stream, so I think it is a wash. > > To clarify. The RtpReceiverEntry needs to have the feedback > for just ONE > receiver anyway, so why not model it as multiple unicast > flows (since that > is indeed what we have here) > > I do not see a problem The issue I am raising is that we are dividing up what is truly a single RTP session as defined in RFC 1889 with multiple RTP sessions in MIB. The RTP MIB draft has changed the definition of a RTP session. Let's say if I want to implement a monitor for the above example where A is sending to both B and C in a RTP session. I send a MIB request for a RTP session and according to the current MIB specs, I will be getting back only a single stream in the RTP session (say A->B). I cannot be certain if another stream (A->C) exists for this RTP session unless I dump the whole MIB and try to correlate all the "MIB RTP session" with the local address of A. In addition, the reverse sender table mapping is non unique. Let's continue with the above example and look at the sender A. Sender A's send address is common to the stream A->B and A->C. Then using sender A's rtpSessionDomain and rtpSenderAddr, I can map to the session index corresponding either to the (A->B) stream or the session index corresponding to the (A->C) stream. This is contradictory to the statement in the MIB rtpSenderInverseEntry that "Each entry corresponds to exactly one entry in the rtpSenderTable - the entry containing the index pair, rtpSessionIndex, rtpSenderSSRC". The MIB draft should specify clearly how the multi-unicast RTP session scenario should be handled and clarify some of these inconsistencies. Regards, Tim Chen From rem-conf Wed May 03 10:20:22 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 10:20:20 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n2m3-0003Oy-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 10:17:23 -0700 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n2m1-0003Oo-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 10:17:21 -0700 Received: from SMTP (fmsmsxvs05-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.205]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.22 2000/04/06 17:58:51 dmccart Exp $) with SMTP id RAA01197; Wed, 3 May 2000 17:18:08 GMT Received: from fmsmsx28.FM.INTEL.COM ([132.233.48.28]) by 132.233.48.205 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Wed, 03 May 2000 17:17:20 0000 (GMT) Received: by fmsmsx28.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 3 May 2000 10:17:18 -0700 Message-ID: <7DAA70BEB463D211AC3E00A0C96B7AB20344B7B5@orsmsx41.jf.intel.com> From: "Strahm, Bill" To: "'Tim Chen'" , "Strahm, Bill" , "'rem-conf@es.net'" , ITU-SG16@mailbag.cps.intel.com Cc: Michael Bird , "'rem-conf@es.net'" , "'mbaugher@passedge.com'" Subject: RE: Current RTP-MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP sessio n? Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:17:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list I think you are going a little overboard on your definition of "One Session" First off I do not see how you could have a third party monitor setup to catch all of the unicast streams involved. Third party monitors were designed to handle multicast cases where you can setup the monitor to receive the multicast address/port combination that is needed to get the management data. I do not believe that your multi-unicast session is held up in the RTP Spec >From RFC 1889 Sec 3 Definitions RTP session: The association among a set of participants communicating with RTP. For each participant, the session is defined by a particular pair of destination transport addresses (one network address plus a port pair for RTP and RTCP). The destination transport address pair may be common for all participants, as in the case of IP multicast, or may be different for each, as in the case of individual unicast network addresses plus a common port pair. In a multimedia session, each medium is carried in a separate RTP session with its own RTCP packets. The multiple RTP sessions are distinguished by different port number pairs and/or different multicast addresses. >From this reading each of the A->B A->C is a seperate RTP Session ( there are different destination transport address pairs). If you want to define a seperate definition of an RTP session as Where one endpoint unicasts the same information to multiple destination addresses on the same port, I do not see this definition supported by the RTP spec, and I do not see how this can work because B and C will not see each others RTCP packets to create a single session to be managed. Bill > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Chen [mailto:scc@trillium.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 9:45 AM > To: 'Strahm, Bill'; 'rem-conf@es.net'; ITU-SG16@mailbag.cps.intel.com > Cc: Michael Bird > Subject: RE: Current RTP-MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP > sessio n? > > > Bill, > > Thank you for your reply. However, I am not > convinced that multi-unicast RTP session MIB is > properly handled in the current RTP MIB draft. > Please find my comments below. > > > I see each one of these as seperate channels, with > different feedback > > streams. Therefor participant A would have a RtpSessionEntry > > for A->B and > > A->C, participant B would have B->A and B->C etc. Yes this > > doesn't scale > > very well as you add many participants, but then neither > does sending > > multiple copies of the same stream, so I think it is a wash. > > > > To clarify. The RtpReceiverEntry needs to have the feedback > > for just ONE > > receiver anyway, so why not model it as multiple unicast > > flows (since that > > is indeed what we have here) > > > > I do not see a problem > > The issue I am raising is that we are dividing up what is truly > a single RTP session as defined in RFC 1889 with multiple RTP > sessions > in MIB. The RTP MIB draft has changed the definition of a > RTP session. > > Let's say if I want to implement a monitor for the above > example where A is sending to both B and C in a RTP session. > I send a MIB request for a RTP session and according to the > current MIB specs, I will be getting back only a single stream > in the RTP session (say A->B). I cannot be certain if > another stream (A->C) exists for this RTP session > unless I dump the whole MIB and try to correlate all the > "MIB RTP session" with the local address of A. Third party monitors were not designed for Unicast applications. How do you expect to get the Unicast RTCP information to this third party monitor somewhere else in the network ??? > In addition, the reverse sender table mapping is non unique. > Let's continue with the above example and look at the > sender A. Sender A's send address is common to the stream > A->B and A->C. Then using sender A's rtpSessionDomain and > rtpSenderAddr, > I can map to the session index corresponding either to the > (A->B) stream > or the session index corresponding to the (A->C) stream. This > is contradictory to the statement in the MIB rtpSenderInverseEntry > that "Each entry corresponds to exactly one entry in the > rtpSenderTable - the entry containing the index pair, > rtpSessionIndex, rtpSenderSSRC". > Again I say that the A->B stream is seperate than the A->C stream. Looking at endpoint A we have a table that has two entries in the RtpSessionEntry one for each stream, and we have uniqueness. From B we have one entry in the RtpSessionEntry table (for the A->B stream) and no knowledge of the A->C stream (we can't see it so we can't manage it from here). The same thing applies for C. > The MIB draft should specify clearly how the multi-unicast > RTP session scenario should be handled and clarify some > of these inconsistencies. > > Regards, > Tim Chen > > From rem-conf Wed May 03 12:11:43 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 12:11:43 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n4RT-0005LE-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 12:04:15 -0700 Received: from brisco.passedge.com [4.18.242.15] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n4RS-0005Ir-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 12:04:14 -0700 Received: by BRISCO with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <25BKH7BJ>; Wed, 3 May 2000 12:04:06 -0700 Message-ID: <07E816C410ECD311BBEE00C04FA14BCF0C5F05@BRISCO> From: "Baugher, Mark" To: 'Tim Chen' , "'rem-conf@es.net'" Subject: RE: Current RTP-MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP sessio n? Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:03:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list hi Tim Here's the first part of the RFC 1889 definition that you cite: > > RTP session: The association among a set of participants > communicating > > with RTP. For each participant, the session is defined by a > particular > > pair of destination transport addresses (one network > It reads that "For each participant, the session is defined by a particular pair of destination transport addresses." I think you are interpreting this to mean a "set of pairs," which is not what RFC 1889 says. The MIB maintains management information for a participant, if it is a host, or for all participants in the case of a multicast monitor. A mixer or translator may have a different view of a session, but the RTP MIB draft document states that mixers and translators are for further study. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Chen [mailto:scc@trillium.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 8:43 AM > To: 'rem-conf@es.net' > Subject: FW: Current RTP-MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP > sessio n? > > > > > Hello, > > > > I see a problem with current "RTP session" definition in RTP MIB > > . > > This MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP session > which is clearly > > permissible under section 3 of RFC 1889: > > > > RTP session: The association among a set of participants > communicating > > with RTP. For each participant, the session is defined by a > particular > > pair of destination transport addresses (one network > address plus a port > > pair for RTP and RTCP). The destination transport address > pair may be > > common for all participants, as in the case of IP > multicast, or may be > > different for each, as in the case of individual unicast > network addresses > > plus a common port pair. > > > > Hence each participant in an RTP session could have > > a different RTP receive address. The only requirement > > from the specs is that the RTP and RTCP port pair used by > all participants > > has to be the same. For example, I can have the following > > RTP session with three participants, each receiving RTP packets > > on a different IP address: > > > > participant A : receive RTP on 103.403.25.45 port 6000 > > participant B : receive RTP on 103.403.33.34 port 6000 > > participant C : receive RTP on 103.403.25.98 port 6000 > > > > So for participant A, he will send to two remote addresses: > > 103.403.33.34:6000 (that B listens to) and 103.403.25.98:6000 > > (that C listens to). > > > > However, the current RTP session MIB draft (page 10) has the > > following structure: > > > > RtpSessionEntry ::= SEQUENCE { > > rtpSessionIndex Integer32, > > rtpSessionDomain TDomain, > > rtpSessionRemAddr TAddress, > > rtpSessionLocAddr TAddress, > > rtpSessionIfIndex InterfaceIndex, > > rtpSessionSenderJoins Counter32, > > rtpSessionReceiverJoins Counter32, > > rtpSessionByes Counter32, > > rtpSessionStartTime TimeStamp, > > rtpSessionMonitor TruthValue, > > rtpSessionRowStatus RowStatus > > } > > > > This definition allows only a single remote address. This > > is contradictory to RFC 1889 which clearly permits > > multiple remote addresses in a single RTP session. > > > > Will the authors of this MIB give some clarification? Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > Tim Chen > > > > > From rem-conf Wed May 03 13:02:50 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 13:02:50 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n5Jg-000746-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:00:16 -0700 Received: from turin.trillium.com [206.216.108.218] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n5Jf-00073Q-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:00:15 -0700 Received: from aiglos.trillium.com (unverified) by turin.trillium.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 3 May 2000 13:09:51 -0700 Received: from aega.trillium.com (aega.trillium.com [192.168.1.19]) by aiglos.trillium.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26441; Wed, 3 May 2000 12:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by aega.trillium.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 3 May 2000 12:58:11 -0700 Message-ID: <8BBD33A986C5D311804000902719FF5D0870F9@aega.trillium.com> From: Tim Chen To: "'Baugher, Mark'" , Tim Chen , "'rem-conf@es.net'" Cc: Michael Bird Subject: RE: Current RTP-MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP sessio n? Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:58:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Mark, Thank you for your reply. Please find my comments inline: > > hi Tim > Here's the first part of the RFC 1889 definition that > you cite: > > > > RTP session: The association among a set of participants > > communicating > > > with RTP. For each participant, the session is defined by a > > particular > > > pair of destination transport addresses (one network > > > > It reads that "For each participant, the session is defined by > a particular pair of destination transport addresses." Here the pair of addresses refer to the receiving RTP and RTCP address for that participant, NOT a local RTP address and a remote RTP address as in the current MIB draft. That is clear if we look at the entire sentence in the specs: "For each participant, the session is defined by a particular pair of destination transport addresses (one network address plus a port pair for RTP and RTCP)." So it is quite clear from the specs that each participant in a session should receive RTP on one address/port and RTCP on the same network address but another port. However, the specs explicitly mention that the receive addresses for each participant need not be the same: "The destination transport address pair may be be common for all participants, as in the case of IP multicast, or MAY BE DIFFERENT FOR EACH, as in the case of individual unicast network addresses plus a common port pair." So the specs allow for a scenario where I have user A, B and C each using a different transport address pair to receive RTP and RTCP packets to participate in a single RTP session. This is quite a valid scenario for a 3-way conference call. Under the current MIB definition, I cannot treat this as a single RTP session. > I think > you are interpreting this to mean a "set of pairs," which > is not what RFC 1889 says. I hope the above explanation clarifies my interpretation of the RFC 1889's definition of a RTP session. > The MIB maintains management > information for a participant, if it is a host, or > for all participants in the case of a multicast monitor. > A mixer or translator may have a different view of a > session, but the RTP MIB draft document states that mixers > and translators are for further study. > > Mark Regards, Tim Chen From rem-conf Wed May 03 14:28:51 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 14:28:51 2000 Received: from list by mail2.es.net with local (Exim 1.92 #1) for rem-conf-dist@es.net id 12n6cr-0000NY-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:24:09 -0700 Received: from ip62.cincinnati14.oh.pub-ip.psi.net ([38.31.50.62] helo=opera) by mail2.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 12n6cn-0000N8-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:24:05 -0700 From: opera9@flash.net To: Subject: Best New Trade Show Display by Opera Portables, Inc. adv Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 17:19:46 -0400 X-Sender: opera9@flash.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-Id: X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Opera Portables, Inc. is offering "by invitation" visits to our web site. Packed full of exciting projects and news, Opera is leading the industry with displays that as much eye-popping as they are eye catching. Winner of numerous industry awards, including Ernst & Young's Crescendo Award, Exhibitor Magazine's Best New Product, Forty Under 40 and Emerging 30, Opera Portables is a progressive young company with imagination and vision. If you use displays, you really owe it to yourself to check out our stuff! go to http://www.operadisplays.net.@3637331613/ Opera Portables, Inc. All removes honored at http://www.operadisplays.net.@3637331613/removes.htm From rem-conf Wed May 03 14:30:08 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 14:30:07 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n6bF-0000tW-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:22:29 -0700 Received: from dnai.com [207.181.194.98] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n6bE-0000tM-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:22:28 -0700 Received: from hariv (cougar.chiplogic.com [216.15.52.34]) by dnai.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA40039 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 14:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <018e01bfb545$1a057780$03000004@hariv.domain> Reply-To: "Hari Krishna Vuppaladhadiam" From: "Hari Krishna Vuppaladhadiam" To: Subject: Voice Activity Detection (VAD) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:18:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hi, I need to know what are the standards defined for VAD for sample based speech codecs like G711, G726 etc. in the VoIP chain. Is there any reference available for this implementation? Regards Hari From rem-conf Wed May 03 16:49:57 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 16:49:56 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n8ps-0004Br-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 16:45:44 -0700 Received: from bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk [128.16.5.31] by mail1.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12n8pr-0004Bh-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 16:45:43 -0700 Received: from host212-140-35-199.btinternet.com by bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk with Internet SMTP id ; Thu, 4 May 2000 00:45:24 +0100 Message-ID: <002c01bfb552$5a9dcce0$c7238cd4@oemcomputer> Reply-To: Farez From: Farez To: rem-conf , agents , mymobile , mobile-systems Subject: CFP: AMOC 2000, Malaysia Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:49:21 +0100 Organization: University College London MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Call for Papers FIRST ASIAN INTERNATIONAL MOBILE COMPUTING CONFERENCE (AMOC 2000) 31 October - 3 November, 2000. Penang, Malaysia Organised by University Malaya, Malaysia In cooperation with ACM SIGMOBILE With main support from MRCB Multimedia http://www.fsktm.um.edu.my/amoc http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/F.AbdulRahman/amoc *** Submission deadline: 30 May, 2000 *** Latest update: 1. 200 word abstract to be included in the separate 'Author details' plain text document. 2. Tutorials confirmed - see details below. Mobile computing is a new and highly dynamic field which combines modern computer science, networking and wireless communication technologies. This conference will provide a platform for researchers and practitioners to meet and discuss current issues in this field. The conference is also unique as it highly encourages contributions >from the Asian region alongside those from other parts of the globe. The focus on Asia is important because there are unique regional issues not given attention in typical international conferences, where technological issues in developed nations receive centre stage. These issues include different infrastructural and economic requirements; the effect of a more diverse socio-economic environment on technical specifications; the far-reaching impact of wireless communication in rural areas and the great interest in the rapid deployment of cutting edge technology due to the high progress rate of technological implementation in many Asian countries. The main objectives of this conference are: 1. To provide a platform for international and Asian researchers and professionals to meet and discuss issues pertinent to both universal and Asia-centric mobile computing issues. 2. To provide participants with up-to-date information regarding the development in this field. 3. To provide a yardstick by which researchers may compare the quality of their work to that of their peers in order to maintain a high standard of research. The topics of interest include, but are not limited to, those listed below: o Quality of Service(QoS) o handover & location management o systems infrastructure o satellite technology o internet access o power management o data services o lower layer protocols o rural wireless communications o data management o billing o security o e-commerce o agent technology o multimedia o hardware o Personal Communication Systems o terminal design & ergonomics o wireless LANs / WANs o nomadic systems Important Dates ------------------- Submission deadline: 30 May, 2000 Notification of acceptance: 15 July, 2000 Camera ready copy: 15 August, 2000 Submission Guidelines ---------------------------- Papers should be original, unpublished and not more than ten single-spaced pages with a minimum font size of 10 pt. Papers must be in postscript format, and should only contain the paper title and the body of the paper, WITHOUT author names and affiliations. A separate plain text document containing only the title, author names, their respective affiliations and 200 word abstract, is required. Please send your paper (in postscript format) and your separate author page (in plain text format) in separate emails to amoc-submission@fsktm.um.edu.my by the 30th of May, 2000. For more information, please visit http://www.fsktm.um.edu.my/amoc/ or email amoc-submission@fsktm.um.edu.my Best Student Paper Award ------------------------ The best paper with a student as primary author will be awarded a really cool prize of US$500 during the conference. Student authors who would like to be considered for this award should write 'Student Paper' in the plain text document containing the paper title and author name(s) and affiliation(s). Tutorials --------- There will be two half-day and one full-day tutorials on 31 October. The full-day tutorial will run in parallel with each of the half-day tutorials. The tutorials are: 1. Client-server Computing in Wireless and Mobile Environments Prof. Abdelsalam Helal, University of Florida. (Full Day) 2. Java based Mobile Computing - JINI, Mobile Objects and Agents Dr. Omer F. Rana, University of Wales. (Half Day) 3. Mobile Ad Hoc Wireless Networks Dr. Somprakash Bandyopadhyay from PriceWaterhouse Coopers Ltd., Dr. Krishna Paul from Cognizant Technology Solutions, India. (Half Day) Organising Committee -------------------- Prof. Ir. Dr. Mashkuri Hj. Yaacob (Universiti Malaya) Dr Mazliza Othman (Universiti Malaya) Alfarez Abdul Rahman (University College London) Dr Roziati Zainuddin (Universiti Malaya) Dr. Zaitun Abu Bakar (Universiti Malaya) Rodziah Latih (Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia) Norizan Mohd Yasin (Universiti Malaya) Omar Zakaria (Universiti Malaya) Mustaffa Kamal (Universiti Malaya) Technical Program Committee --------------------------- Assc. Prof. David K. Asano, Shinshu University, Japan Prof. Boualem Boashash, Queensland University of Technology, Australia Dr. Che Nyan Husain, Telekom Malaysia Prof. Chuah Hean Teik, Universiti Multimedia Telekom, Malaysia Prof. Jon Crowcroft, University College London, UK Prof. Sajal Das, University of North Texas, USA Assc. Prof. Norsheila Faisal, Universiti Teknologi Malaysia Prof. Sandeep Gupta, Colorado State University, USA Dr. Stephen Hailes, University College London, UK Prof. Abdelsalam Helal, University of Florida, USA Ravi Jain, Telcordia, USA Dr. Minseok Kang, LG Corporate Institute of Technology, Korea Prof. Ryuji Kohno, Yokohama University, Japan Prof. Sung-Kwon Chung, Seoul National University, Korea Dr. Jong-Hyeon Lee, Cambridge University, UK Bo Li, Hong Kong University of Science & Technology Prof Jason Yi-Bing Lin, National Chiao Tung University, Taiwan Dr. Seng-Wai Loke, Monash University, Australia Dr. Jelena Misic, Hong Kong University of Science & Technology Assc. Prof. George Mohay, Queensland University of Technology, Australia Susan Pancho, Cambridge University, UK Prof. Pradip Srimani, Colorado State University, USA Dr. Fumio Teraoka, Sony Computer Science Labs, Inc., Japan Prof. C-K Toh, Georgia Institute of Technology Prof. Yu-Chee Tseng, National Central University, Taiwan Dr. Arkady Zaslavsky, Monash University, Australia Dr. Jianying Zhou, Kent Ridge Digital Lab, Singapore From rem-conf Wed May 03 19:22:53 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 03 19:22:51 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nBEW-0006jS-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 19:19:20 -0700 Received: from brisco.passedge.com [4.18.242.15] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nBEV-0006iv-00; Wed, 3 May 2000 19:19:19 -0700 Received: by BRISCO with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <25BKH7ND>; Wed, 3 May 2000 19:19:11 -0700 Message-ID: <07E816C410ECD311BBEE00C04FA14BCF0C5F13@BRISCO> From: "Baugher, Mark" To: 'Tim Chen' , "'rem-conf@es.net'" Cc: Michael Bird Subject: RE: Current RTP-MIB definition precludes multi-unicast RTP sessio n? Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 19:19:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Tim > Here the pair of addresses refer to the receiving RTP and > RTCP address for that participant, NOT a local RTP address > and a remote RTP address as in the current MIB draft. I agree though the RTP MIB draft does correctly support the RTP/RTCP port pair in its definitions. Your statement might lead someone to think otherwise. The MIB does not support multipoint unicast addresses for an RTP session from an RTP end system. In the RTP MIB, a "unicast RTP session" is an association between two endpoints. > > "The destination transport address pair may be be common > for all participants, as in the case of IP multicast, or > MAY BE DIFFERENT FOR EACH, as in the case of individual > unicast network addresses plus a common port pair." > > So the specs allow for a scenario where I have user A, B and > C each using a different transport address pair to receive > RTP and RTCP packets to participate in a single RTP session. Yes, an RTP session can have multiple unicast endpoints. The spec discusses this in the context of a translator. Yo > This is quite a valid scenario for a 3-way conference > call. Under the current MIB definition, I cannot treat > this as a single RTP session. I think it would be cleaner to call this an RTP translator function and write a translator MIB for it. Mark From rem-conf Thu May 04 08:42:34 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu May 04 08:42:33 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nNds-00079I-00; Thu, 4 May 2000 08:34:20 -0700 Received: from 20-168.015.popsite.net (manager-one) [216.126.188.168] by mail1.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nNcy-00078d-00; Thu, 4 May 2000 08:33:31 -0700 From: Subject: Fulfill Your Potential Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 04:57:14 Message-Id: <899.130837.574343@manager-one> Bcc: To: rem-conf@es.net X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list THIS IS NOT SPAM. THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED BY YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE. IF YOU WISH TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST JUST TYPE THE WORD REMOVE IN THE SUBJECT AND E-MAIL TO MAMAGER-ONE@CCNMAIL.COM ________________________________________________________________________ WORK AT HOME USING YOUR COMPUTER!!! Dear Friend, You can earn $46,000 or more in next the 90 days sending e-mail. Seem impossible? 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This club provides a forum where internet marketers from all over the world can exchange ideas and secrets on Internet Marketing. In addition, members of this club are provided free internet marketing tools and services for the Do-Yourself-Internet-Marketer. They will provide you with free bulk e-mail software and up to 1,000,000 fresh e-mail addresses each week. This club will provide you with hundreds of free resources that include: How to obtain free web sites, how to obtain top rankings in search engines for your web-site, how to send bulk e-mail into AOL and Compuserve, how to market your products on newsgroups, free classified ads, electronic malls, bulletin boards, banner ads and much more. There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.3% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.3% response, that is only 6 orders for REPORT #1. Those 6 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 12,000. Out of those 0.3%, 36 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 36 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 72,000. The 0.3% response to that is 216 orders for REPORT #3. Those 216 send out 2,000 programs each for a 432,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 1,296 orders for REPORT #4. Those 1,296 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,592,000 total. The 0.3% response to that is 7,776 orders for REPORT #5. That's 7,776 $5 bills for you, CASH!!! Your total income in this example is $30 + $180 + $1,080+ $6,480 + $38,880 for a total of $46,650!!! REMEMBER, FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,994 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT #2 and #5 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing, tell you where to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail lists and show you how to send out 1,000,000 e-mails for free. METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 6 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 6 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 6 members with $5 ($5 x 6)........................$30 2nd level--6 members from those 6 ($5 x 36)....................$180 3rd level--6 members from those 36 ($5 x 216)............ $1,080 4th level--6 members from those 216 ($5 x 1,296)....... $6,480 5th level-6 members from those 1,296 ($5 x 7,776)... $38,880 .................................................$46,650 Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 6 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Many people will get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! AVAILABLE REPORTS *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ______________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: K and P Scott 48832 Andorra Street Indio CA 92201 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Michele Richter P.O. Box 4534 Fort Lauderdale, Fl. 33338-4534 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Paul Bowen 1105 Amble Lane Clearwater, FL 33755 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: RML, Inc. 1584 Huron Church Road Suite 105 Windsor, ON N9C 2L1 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE" ORDER REPORT #5 FROM: Ray Jones 113 Thunderlane Mena, AR 71953-7714 ______________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________ There currently more than 175,000,000 people online worldwide! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the five reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: * When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program, please answer one question: DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE? If the answer is yes, please look at the following facts about this program: 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT THAT DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE! 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT THAT DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP! 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT THAT DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO ADVERTISE! 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OF MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD! 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $25 INVESTMENT IS YOUR TIME! 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT! 7. THIS PROGRAM WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER. ******* T E S T I M O N I A L S ******* This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. Fred Dellaca, Westport, New Zealand My name is Mitchell. My wife, Jody, and I live in Chicago, IL. I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to Jody about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined Jody in her "hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM. Mitchell Wolf MD., Chicago, IL The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in. Sincerely yours, Pam Hedland Halmstad, Sweden I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program. 11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one! I made more than $41,000 on the first try!! Mohamed, Cairo, Egypt This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spending! Sam Lee Suva, Fiji Islands ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS From rem-conf Thu May 04 16:33:01 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Thu May 04 16:33:01 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nUrf-0005rZ-00; Thu, 4 May 2000 16:17:03 -0700 Received: from boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nUre-0005rP-00; Thu, 4 May 2000 16:17:02 -0700 Received: from ISI.EDU (jet.isi.edu [128.9.160.87]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA03789; Thu, 4 May 2000 16:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200005042317.QAA03789@boreas.isi.edu> To: IETF-Announce: ; Subject: RFC 2793 on RTP Payload for Text Conversation Cc: rfc-ed@ISI.EDU, rem-conf@es.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=NextPart Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 16:16:59 -0700 From: RFC Editor X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list --NextPart A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 2793 Title: RTP Payload for Text Conversation Author(s): G. Hellstrom Status: Standards Track Date: May 2000 Mailbox: gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se Pages: 10 Characters: 20674 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None URL: ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2793.txt This memo describes how to carry text conversation session contents in RTP packets. Text conversation session contents are specified in ITU-T Recommendation T.140 [1]. Text conversation is used alone or in connection to other conversational facilities such as video and voice, to form multimedia conversation services. This RTP payload description contains an optional possibility to include redundant text from already transmitted packets in order to reduce the risk of text loss caused by packet loss. The redundancy coding follows RFC 2198. This document is a product of the Audio/Video Transport Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the "Internet Official Protocol Standards" (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution.echo Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. Joyce K. Reynolds and Sandy Ginoza USC/Information Sciences Institute ... Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant Mail Reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the RFCs. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="RFC-INFO@RFC-EDITOR.ORG" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <000504161443.RFC@RFC-EDITOR.ORG> RETRIEVE: rfc DOC-ID: rfc2793 --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="rfc2793.txt"; site="ftp.isi.edu"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="in-notes" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <000504161443.RFC@RFC-EDITOR.ORG> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From rem-conf Fri May 05 06:18:56 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri May 05 06:18:55 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nhv6-0007Ja-00; Fri, 5 May 2000 06:13:28 -0700 Received: from soleil.uvsq.fr [193.51.24.1] (root) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nhv1-0007JQ-00; Fri, 5 May 2000 06:13:26 -0700 Received: from lucifer.prism.uvsq.fr (lucifer.prism.uvsq.fr [193.51.25.7]) by soleil.uvsq.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.3) with ESMTP id OAA19498 ; Fri, 5 May 2000 14:47:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from prism.uvsq.fr (baudelaire.prism.uvsq.fr [193.51.25.167]) by lucifer.prism.uvsq.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.2) with ESMTP id OAA07318 ; Fri, 5 May 2000 14:29:55 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3912C0C5.D8129652@prism.uvsq.fr> Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 14:38:29 +0200 From: Guy Pujolle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [fr] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: net2000@prism.uvsq.fr Subject: Networking 2000 is just around the corner Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list apologies if you receive multiple copies of this email
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                      IFIP NETWORKING 2000
                         PARIS, May 14-19, 2000

                   http://netconf.lip6.fr/net2000

Networking 2000 conference is a joint conference of:

HPN (High Performance Networking) Aaren 1987, Liege 1988, Berlin 1990, Liege 1992, Grenoble 1994, Palma 1995, New York 1997, Vienna 1998, Paris 2000.

BC (Broadband Communications) Paris 1995, Montreal 1996, Lisboa 1997, Stuttgart 1998, Hong-Kong 1999, Paris 2000.

PCN (Performance of Communication Networks) Paris 1981, Zurich 1984, Rio de Janeiro 1987, Barcelona 1990, Raleigh 1993, Lund 1998, Paris 2000.

In addition to the conference program :
15 tutorials
Cellular IP Approaches: Pr Behcet Sarikaya
Algorithms for forwarding lookup and filtering in high performance routers: Pr Ernst Biersack
New developments in internet protocols and architecture: Dr Christophe Diot
Mobile Software Agents for Telecommunication Services on Internet: Pr Ahmed Karmouch
Les algorithmes pour les routeurs hautes performances: Pr Ernst Biersack
Les technologies d'agents mobiles pour les télécommunications: Pr Ahmed Karmouch
Mobile Ad-Hoc Networks: Dr Philippe Jacquet
Understanding DWDM Technology in Networks: Dr Stamatios Kartalopoulos
IP Cellulaire: Pr Behcet Sarikaya
Les nouvelles architectures de l'Internet: Dr Christophe Diot
Understanding SLA: Dr Lundy Lewis
Modern Distributed Application Development: CORBA, Servlets, and XML: Dr Stefan Understanding QoS: Dr Jagannath Shantigram
Voice Over IP: Dr Henning Schulzrinne
Multimedia Enabling Technologies and Applications: Pr Nicolas Georganas

8 international workshop and  mini-conferences featuring hot topics in networking
MWCN - Second International Workshop on Mobile and Wireless Communication Networks
Broadband Satellite Networks
Multimedia Management
Quality of Service and Multimedia Applications
Ressource Allocation for Mobile Networks
Internet and the Web
Programmable Networks and Active Networks
IATE - Intelligent Agents for Telecommunication Environments
  From rem-conf Fri May 05 14:14:41 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri May 05 14:14:39 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12npD8-0004XG-00; Fri, 5 May 2000 14:00:34 -0700 Received: from grinch.cks.com [209.116.192.146] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12npD7-0004Wq-00; Fri, 5 May 2000 14:00:33 -0700 Received: (from pmm@localhost) by grinch.cks.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16897; Fri, 5 May 2000 11:19:18 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:19:17 -0700 From: "Paul M. Moriarty" To: friends_and_contacts@grinch.cks.com Subject: Leaving marchFIRST, formerly USWeb/CKS Message-ID: <20000505111917.B16880@grinch.cks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hello, Well, after 3-1/2 yrs, first at CKS, then USWeb/CKS, and finally marchFIRST the time has come for me to move on. Today, Friday, May 5th is my last day. For the time being, I can be reached at pmm@igtc.com Regards, -> Paul <- -- P A U L M . M O R I A R T Y Partner, Administrative Operations __________________________________________ USWeb/CKS 2880 Lakeside Drive, Suite 300 Santa Clara, CA 95054 ph: +1 408 986 6776 fax: +1 408 987 3230 From rem-conf Fri May 05 22:26:10 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri May 05 22:26:08 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nwqM-0001Jw-00; Fri, 5 May 2000 22:09:34 -0700 Received: from ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com (mail.rdc1.tn.home.com) [24.2.7.66] (imail) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nwqL-0001Jc-00; Fri, 5 May 2000 22:09:33 -0700 Received: from ci39026-a.home.com ([24.15.71.131]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000506050918.VBMX4902.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@ci39026-a.home.com>; Fri, 5 May 2000 22:09:18 -0700 Message-Id: <4.3.0.20000505220645.00d33100@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu> X-Sender: gavishb@mail X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 22:09:32 -0500 To: Bezalel Gavish From: Bezalel Gavish Subject: ICTEC 3 Conference CFPs g Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_34756492==_" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list --=====================_34756492==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You are invited to Participate in the 3rd International Conference on Telecommunications and Electronic Commerce, which will be held in Dallas, TX November 16-19, 2000. My apologies if you receive multiple copies of the CFPs. --=====================_34756492==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ICTEC CFP_20003.txt" Call for Papers The Third International Conference on Telecommunications and Electronic Commerce (ICTEC) Dallas, Texas, USA November 16 (late afternoon) - November 19, 2000 http://tecom.cox.smu.edu/ictec Sponsored by Cox School of Business, Southern Methodist University ATSMA INFORMS College on Information Systems INFORMS College on Telecommunications IFIP WG 7.3 Important Dates: Paper (or Extended Abstract) Submission Deadline: July 1, 2000 Panel Proposal Submission Deadline: July 15, 2000 Final Paper Submission Deadline: October 1, 2000 Conference Dates: November 16 - November 19, 2000 Over the past few years, electronic commerce (EC) has emerged as a dramatic new mode of business. Today, almost every company is either using or considering EC. Also, advances in telecommunications and automated processes are already forcing dramatic changes in a variety of industries, ranging from banking and finance to music and entertainment. Yet, the TEC (telecommunications and electronic commerce) environment is still in a relatively early state of evolution, and many of the significant advances in understanding and implementing TEC are occurring concurrently in academia and industry. The traditional sequential process of technology innovation followed by technology transfer no longer applies. Thus, dialogue on this field between academia and industry is important. As TEC spans a wide range of reference disciplines, forums focusing on TEC are necessary to stimulate the necessary interactions and knowledge sharing across this broad community. ICTEC'00 is intended to address these needs. Following on the heels of the successful second conference in 1999, the goal of the conference is to bring together both academic and industrial researchers in the fields of telecommunications and EC on an ongoing, annual basis, to discuss new technological developments and their implications for TEC, as well as technological issues that need to be addressed to further the effectiveness and efficiency of TEC. The conference combines research tracks in which technical papers will be presented, with industrial tracks consisting of panels, plenary speakers and exhibits. Topics of interest for the conference include (but are not limited to) the following: * Impact of EC on supply chain, distribution chain management, EDI and IOS * Secure transaction processing methods for electronic commerce * Design and analysis of multimedia applications on the Internet * The impact of mobility on EC mechanisms * Internet traffic management and analysis * Pricing Internet services * EC market mechanisms and business models * EC intermediary roles and their analysis * Electronic payment mechanisms * Economic analysis of intranets and extranets * Design and analysis of intranets * Data management issues in EC * Managing response time and content in Web-based information services * Effective management of electronic commerce transaction servers * EC developments and challenges in specific industries (e.g., financial services, music, manufacturing, tourism, publishing) * Globalization issues in EC (standards, regulation, property rights, etc.) Authors should submit an extended abstract of at least 2,000 words, or a complete paper, to Ms. Dru Lundeng, Conference Manager, by July 1, 2000. In your submission letter indicate which of the Program Co-chairs should handle the paper. Three hard-copies should be submitted. Electronic submissions are welcome, but must be augmented with at least one hard-copy. Authors of accepted papers will be asked to submit their complete manuscripts to Ms. Lundeng, by October 1, 2000. Accepted papers that are presented at the conference will be included in the Conference Proceedings. Formatting instructions for accepted papers will be sent with the acceptance notice. All submitted papers will be considered for publication in the ACM/Baltzer Electronic Commerce Research journal (http://www.baltzer.nl/ecr/ecr.asp). Panels: Proposals for panels are also invited. Both academic and industry panels are encouraged. Each proposal should include a list of panelists with their affiliations. A brief statement explaining the motivation for the design and composition of the panel should also be included. The deadline for proposal submission to the program chair is July 15, 2000. General Conference Chair: Bezalel Gavish, Cox School of Business, Southern Methodist University, P.O. Box 750333, Dallas, TX 75275-0333, USA, gavishb@mail.cox.smu.edu. Technical Program Co-chairs: Amit Basu, Cox School of Business, Southern Methodist University, P.O. Box 750333, Dallas, TX 75275-0333, USA, basua@mail.cox.smu.edu. Joakim Kalvenes, Cox School of Business, Southern Methodist University, P.O. Box 750333, Dallas, TX 75275-0333, USA, kalvenes@mail.cox.smu.edu. Conference Manager: Dru Lundeng, Cox School of Business, Southern Methodist University, P.O. Box 750333, Dallas, TX 75275-0333, USA, dru.lundeng@mail.cox.smu.edu. --=====================_34756492==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Professor Bezalel Gavish Eugene J. and Ruth F. Constantin Distinguished Chair in Business Edwin L. Cox School of Business Southern Methodist University P.O. Box 750333 Dallas, TX 75275-0333 E-mail: gavishb@mail.cox.smu.edu --=====================_34756492==_-- From rem-conf Fri May 05 22:26:10 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Fri May 05 22:26:07 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nwsW-0001Mh-00; Fri, 5 May 2000 22:11:48 -0700 Received: from ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com (mail.rdc1.tn.home.com) [24.2.7.66] (imail) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12nwsV-0001Ln-00; Fri, 5 May 2000 22:11:47 -0700 Received: from ci39026-a.home.com ([24.15.71.131]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20000506051132.VCOH4902.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@ci39026-a.home.com>; Fri, 5 May 2000 22:11:32 -0700 Message-Id: <4.3.0.20000505221021.00d486e0@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu> X-Sender: gavishb@mail X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 22:11:46 -0500 To: Bezalel Gavish From: Bezalel Gavish Subject: ICTEC 3 Conference CFPs h Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_34890961==_" X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list --=====================_34890961==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You are invited to Participate in the 3rd International Conference on Telecommunications and Electronic Commerce, which will be held in Dallas, TX November 16-19, 2000. My apologies if you receive multiple copies of the CFPs. --=====================_34890961==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ICTEC CFP_20003.txt" Call for Papers The Third International Conference on Telecommunications and Electronic Commerce (ICTEC) Dallas, Texas, USA November 16 (late afternoon) - November 19, 2000 http://tecom.cox.smu.edu/ictec Sponsored by Cox School of Business, Southern Methodist University ATSMA INFORMS College on Information Systems INFORMS College on Telecommunications IFIP WG 7.3 Important Dates: Paper (or Extended Abstract) Submission Deadline: July 1, 2000 Panel Proposal Submission Deadline: July 15, 2000 Final Paper Submission Deadline: October 1, 2000 Conference Dates: November 16 - November 19, 2000 Over the past few years, electronic commerce (EC) has emerged as a dramatic new mode of business. Today, almost every company is either using or considering EC. Also, advances in telecommunications and automated processes are already forcing dramatic changes in a variety of industries, ranging from banking and finance to music and entertainment. Yet, the TEC (telecommunications and electronic commerce) environment is still in a relatively early state of evolution, and many of the significant advances in understanding and implementing TEC are occurring concurrently in academia and industry. The traditional sequential process of technology innovation followed by technology transfer no longer applies. Thus, dialogue on this field between academia and industry is important. As TEC spans a wide range of reference disciplines, forums focusing on TEC are necessary to stimulate the necessary interactions and knowledge sharing across this broad community. ICTEC'00 is intended to address these needs. Following on the heels of the successful second conference in 1999, the goal of the conference is to bring together both academic and industrial researchers in the fields of telecommunications and EC on an ongoing, annual basis, to discuss new technological developments and their implications for TEC, as well as technological issues that need to be addressed to further the effectiveness and efficiency of TEC. The conference combines research tracks in which technical papers will be presented, with industrial tracks consisting of panels, plenary speakers and exhibits. Topics of interest for the conference include (but are not limited to) the following: * Impact of EC on supply chain, distribution chain management, EDI and IOS * Secure transaction processing methods for electronic commerce * Design and analysis of multimedia applications on the Internet * The impact of mobility on EC mechanisms * Internet traffic management and analysis * Pricing Internet services * EC market mechanisms and business models * EC intermediary roles and their analysis * Electronic payment mechanisms * Economic analysis of intranets and extranets * Design and analysis of intranets * Data management issues in EC * Managing response time and content in Web-based information services * Effective management of electronic commerce transaction servers * EC developments and challenges in specific industries (e.g., financial services, music, manufacturing, tourism, publishing) * Globalization issues in EC (standards, regulation, property rights, etc.) Authors should submit an extended abstract of at least 2,000 words, or a complete paper, to Ms. Dru Lundeng, Conference Manager, by July 1, 2000. In your submission letter indicate which of the Program Co-chairs should handle the paper. Three hard-copies should be submitted. Electronic submissions are welcome, but must be augmented with at least one hard-copy. Authors of accepted papers will be asked to submit their complete manuscripts to Ms. Lundeng, by October 1, 2000. Accepted papers that are presented at the conference will be included in the Conference Proceedings. Formatting instructions for accepted papers will be sent with the acceptance notice. All submitted papers will be considered for publication in the ACM/Baltzer Electronic Commerce Research journal (http://www.baltzer.nl/ecr/ecr.asp). Panels: Proposals for panels are also invited. Both academic and industry panels are encouraged. Each proposal should include a list of panelists with their affiliations. A brief statement explaining the motivation for the design and composition of the panel should also be included. The deadline for proposal submission to the program chair is July 15, 2000. General Conference Chair: Bezalel Gavish, Cox School of Business, Southern Methodist University, P.O. Box 750333, Dallas, TX 75275-0333, USA, gavishb@mail.cox.smu.edu. Technical Program Co-chairs: Amit Basu, Cox School of Business, Southern Methodist University, P.O. Box 750333, Dallas, TX 75275-0333, USA, basua@mail.cox.smu.edu. Joakim Kalvenes, Cox School of Business, Southern Methodist University, P.O. Box 750333, Dallas, TX 75275-0333, USA, kalvenes@mail.cox.smu.edu. Conference Manager: Dru Lundeng, Cox School of Business, Southern Methodist University, P.O. Box 750333, Dallas, TX 75275-0333, USA, dru.lundeng@mail.cox.smu.edu. --=====================_34890961==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Professor Bezalel Gavish Eugene J. and Ruth F. Constantin Distinguished Chair in Business Edwin L. Cox School of Business Southern Methodist University P.O. 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 From rem-conf Mon May 08 03:04:15 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon May 08 03:04:13 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12okL2-0002B1-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 03:00:32 -0700 Received: from ausmtp02.au.ibm.com [202.135.136.105] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12okKx-0002AY-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 03:00:28 -0700 Received: from f03n05e.au.ibm.com by ausmtp02.au.ibm.com (IBM AP 1.0) with ESMTP id TAA182182 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:54:10 +1000 From: S_S_Dinesh/India/IBM@au1.ibm.com Received: from d73mta05.au.ibm.com (f06n05s [9.185.166.67]) by f03n05e.au.ibm.com (8.8.8m2/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA57120 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:59:08 +1000 Received: by d73mta05.au.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id CA2568D9.0036D94E ; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:59:05 +1000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMAU@IBMIN@IBMAU To: rem-conf@es.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:10:11 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: INVITE with RTP RR's to a different address ...] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Actually, this is a discussion more for rem-conf than SIP. -Jonathan R. -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg 200 Executive Drive Chief Scientist Suite 120 dynamicsoft West Orange, NJ 07052 jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (732) 741-4778 http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen PHONE: (732) 741-7244 http://www.dynamicsoft.com Received: from wodc7mr4.ffx.ops.us.uu.net by wodc7ps1.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: paleoalterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.22]) id QQifju05095 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 20:42:36 GMT Received: from ns.fmmo.ca by wodc7mr4.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: www.fmmo.ca [207.253.160.156]) id QQifju22154 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 20:42:35 GMT Received: from localhost (fm-listproc@localhost) by ns.fmmo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11741; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:46:33 -0500 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:46:32 -0500 (EST) From: Francois Menard List Account To: Jonathan Rosenberg cc: Henning Schulzrinne , "'sip@lists.research.bell-labs.com'" Subject: Re: INVITE with RTP RR's to a different address ... In-Reply-To: <38C2DC68.973CB2F7@dynamicsoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Does anybody oppose the idea of designing a specific way to do this ... I know that RTCP has to be managed end-to-end, but there are good instances where capturing the RTCP feedback in a central repository is better than doing Netflow analysis ... -=Francois=- On Sun, 5 Mar 2000, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote: > You can easily have both the RTP and RTCP go to one IP address, > different than the SIP originator (media will go to the address listed > in the SDP). However, there is no way to have the RTP and RTCP go to > different addresses. > > -Jonathan R. > > Francois Menard List Account wrote: > > > > Is there a quick way to require the RTP RR's to go to a different IP > > address than the originating party through a SIP INVITE ? > > > > -=Francois=- > > -- > Jonathan D. Rosenberg 200 Executive Drive > Chief Scientist Suite 120 > dynamicsoft West Orange, NJ 07052 > jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (732) 741-4778 > http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen PHONE: (732) 741-7244 > http://www.dynamicsoft.com > From rem-conf Mon May 08 03:04:15 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon May 08 03:04:13 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12okKJ-0002Ai-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 02:59:47 -0700 Received: from ausmtp01.au.ibm.com [202.135.136.97] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12okKG-0002AR-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 02:59:44 -0700 Received: from f03n05e.au.ibm.com by ausmtp01.au.ibm.com (IBM AP 1.0) with ESMTP id TAA178964 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:53:17 +1000 From: S_S_Dinesh/India/IBM@au1.ibm.com Received: from d73mta05.au.ibm.com (f06n05s [9.185.166.67]) by f03n05e.au.ibm.com (8.8.8m2/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA26304 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:58:34 +1000 Received: by d73mta05.au.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id CA2568D9.0036CC62 ; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:58:32 +1000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMAU@IBMIN@IBMAU To: rem-conf@es.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:10:07 +0530 Subject: Re: [Fwd: INVITE with RTP RR's to a different address ...] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list There are several reasons why I'm not sure this is the best approach: 1. RRs are needed end to end to enable application adaptation 2. If you want centralized access to the feedback, then have the end system implement the RTP MIB, and collect the data through that. 3. RRs must be end to end for multicast. I don't like special casing unicast. -Jonathan R. Francois Menard wrote: > Does anybody oppose the idea of designing a specific way to do this ... I > know that RTCP has to be managed end-to-end, but there are good instances > where capturing the RTCP feedback in a central repository is better > than doing Netflow analysis ... > > -=Francois=- > > On Sun, 5 Mar 2000, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote: > > > You can easily have both the RTP and RTCP go to one IP address, > > different than the SIP originator (media will go to the address listed > > in the SDP). However, there is no way to have the RTP and RTCP go to > > different addresses. > > > > -Jonathan R. > > > > Francois Menard List Account wrote: > > > > > > Is there a quick way to require the RTP RR's to go to a different IP > > > address than the originating party through a SIP INVITE ? > > > > > > -=Francois=- > > > > -- > > Jonathan D. Rosenberg 200 Executive Drive > > Chief Scientist Suite 120 > > dynamicsoft West Orange, NJ 07052 > > jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (732) 741-4778 > > http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen PHONE: (732) 741-7244 > > http://www.dynamicsoft.com > > -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg 200 Executive Drive Chief Scientist Suite 120 dynamicsoft West Orange, NJ 07052 jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (732) 741-4778 http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen PHONE: (732) 741-7244 http://www.dynamicsoft.com From rem-conf Mon May 08 03:04:15 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon May 08 03:04:13 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12okLe-0002BT-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 03:01:10 -0700 Received: from ausmtp01.au.ibm.com [202.135.136.97] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12okLc-0002Ar-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 03:01:08 -0700 Received: from f03n05e.au.ibm.com by ausmtp01.au.ibm.com (IBM AP 1.0) with ESMTP id TAA143574; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:54:05 +1000 From: S_S_Dinesh/India/IBM@au1.ibm.com Received: from d73mta05.au.ibm.com (f06n05s [9.185.166.67]) by f03n05e.au.ibm.com (8.8.8m2/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA72946; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:59:22 +1000 Received: by d73mta05.au.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id CA2568D9.0036DF01 ; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:59:20 +1000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMAU@IBMIN@IBMAU To: Martin Mauve cc: rem-conf@es.net, Henning Schulzrinne Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:10:13 +0530 Subject: Re: Unique SSRC IDs? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Martin Mauve wrote: > > It therefore seems that the problem of unique ID distribution has to > be solved anyway (addressing the concerns you mentioned). I'm not so sure. Its possible (and is often done), to generate unique IDs without a central server to guarantee that uniqueness. The problem is that these IDs are long. Its not an issue for many protocols that use them, but RTP is different since its packets are so short. Having a 20 byte UUID in the header for a G.723.1 voice packet is simply too much overhead. Thats why RTP uses this SSRC, which is short, and then binds it to a unique ID (note that this ID is chosen locally and is still unique), the CNAME, sent in an RTCP packet. So, a global unique ID distribution service is only needed for protocols where the cost of transferring a 20 or so byte identifier is too high. I somehow doubt this is a very large set of protocols. -Jonathan R. -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg 200 Executive Drive Chief Scientist Suite 120 dynamicsoft West Orange, NJ 07052 jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (732) 741-4778 http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen PHONE: (732) 741-7244 http://www.dynamicsoft.com From rem-conf Mon May 08 05:02:29 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon May 08 05:02:28 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12omBw-0005fi-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 04:59:16 -0700 Received: from ausmtp02.au.ibm.com [202.135.136.105] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12omBt-0005fT-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 04:59:14 -0700 Received: from f03n07e.au.ibm.com by ausmtp02.au.ibm.com (IBM AP 1.0) with ESMTP id VAA135870; Mon, 8 May 2000 21:53:06 +1000 From: S_S_Dinesh/India/IBM@au1.ibm.com Received: from d73mta05.au.ibm.com (f06n05s [9.185.166.67]) by f03n07e.au.ibm.com (8.8.8m2/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA53000; Mon, 8 May 2000 21:58:05 +1000 Received: by d73mta05.au.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id CA2568D9.0041BBDF ; Mon, 8 May 2000 21:57:59 +1000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMAU@IBMIN@IBMAU To: "Strahm, Bill" cc: "'Martin Mauve'" , rem-conf@es.net Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:10:23 +0530 Subject: Re: Unique SSRC IDs? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list There are several problems with a centralized unique ID allocator: - yet another point of failure (calls to mind Tanenbaum's dictum about distributed systems which fail because a system fails that you didn't even know existed) - yet another target for a high-payoff denial-of-service attack (neat - I can shut down the world's telephone, TV and radio by shutting down the number server...) - how do you keep me (and various copies of my little virus) from sucking up all identifiers for some high-profile event? - firewalls, NATs - making sure that identifiers get returned - kind of a global DHCP problem, just much worse - fast joins for channel surfing add another step (and with channel surfing, the number of requests to this server could be quite large) Thus, I'd think that some test code that exercises the SSRC allocation would be a far more useful contribution. If we ever want to get to 5-nines reliability, we can't keep adding centralized servers whose failure brings down the whole phone system, radio and TV. -- Henning Schulzrinne http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs From rem-conf Mon May 08 10:06:07 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon May 08 10:06:06 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12oquW-00023k-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 10:01:36 -0700 Received: from odin.ietf.org (ietf.org) [132.151.1.176] by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12oquU-00023Z-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 10:01:34 -0700 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12094; Mon, 8 May 2000 13:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200005081701.NAA12094@ietf.org> To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: RFC Editor , iana@iana.org Cc: Internet Architecture Board Cc: rem-conf@es.net From: The IESG Subject: Protocol Action: RTP Payload Format for Real-Time Pointers to Proposed Standard Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 13:01:25 -0400 Sender: scoya@cnri.reston.va.us X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list The IESG has approved the Internet-Draft 'RTP Payload Format for Real-Time Pointers' as a Proposed Standard. This document is the product of the Audio/Video Transport Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Scott Bradner and Allison Mankin. Technical Summary This document describes an RTP payload format for transporting the coordinates of a dynamic pointer such as might be used during a presentation. The payload format is narrowly scoped; in particular, it is not meant to serve as a general mouse event transmission mechanism. Working Group Summary The payload format was first presented at the Oslo IETF meeting. A number of changes were suggested at that meeting, and incorporated into the format, with the result of making it resolution independent and easier to synchronize with other media formats. There is now good WG consensus for publishing the document. Protocol Quality Vern Paxson reviewed the spec for the IESG. Note to RFC Editor: Please replace the first occurance of the phrase "mouse buttons" with "pointer special effects flags, such as mouse buttons", and all subsequent occurances of the phrase "mouse buttons" with "pointer flags". From rem-conf Mon May 08 19:05:59 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon May 08 19:05:56 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12ozGD-0007Zg-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 18:56:33 -0700 Received: from ns.r-net.sk [193.58.193.10] (root) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12ozG9-0007ZW-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 18:56:30 -0700 Received: from jakab (Kosice55.r-net.sk [193.58.192.183]) by NS.r-net.sk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA24318; Tue, 9 May 2000 03:54:42 +0200 Message-ID: <001201bfb95a$6f5b1aa0$b7c03ac1@jakab> From: "jakab frantisek" To: Cc: , , , , , , , , , Subject: Symposium ATMTU 2000 in Slovakia Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 02:21:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0A0F_01BFB95D.410F92E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0A0F_01BFB95D.410F92E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Accept my apologies if you receive multiple copies of this call. Please = forward to your colleagues. = ___________________________________________________________ The deadline for abstract submission is quickly = approaching (May) = ___________________________________________________________ =20 THE SECOND INTERNATIONAL ATM TECHNOLOGY USERS SYMPOSIUM ATMTU 2000 13 - 15 September 2000 Kosice, Slovakia =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Dear colleagues, Enclosed is a Call for Papers for a special issue of The ATMTU 2000 = Symposium.=20 Detailed information about the Symposium and registration form 4you will = also fing on the Symposium web site: http://www.elfa.sk. The Symposium will be devoted to exchange of experiences in = implementation and operation of the broad-band networks based on the ATM technology, = presentation of=20 verified applications and presentation of the offered services. It will = promote the ATM=20 technology transfer between the producers and customers - users of the = ATM technology. In framework of the Symposium we are preparing an exhibition of new = products and=20 components of the ATM technology, applications, measurement equipment, = etc. The exhibition will be held in the same location as the Symposium. = Companies and institutions will have an opportunity to exhibit their products and = advertise them among the specialists and potential customers. Also, a special session will be = devoted to=20 introducing their products and applications (short lectures in duration = of approx. 10-20 min.).=20 In the plenary session we expect a presentation of the ambassadors of = the ATM Forum and also presentation of important business, academical and public = representative. Yours sincerely, Organising Committee ATMTU 2000 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Scope of the Symposium The Symposium will be devoted to the: a.. Presentation and sharing of experiences in the implementation and = operation = of the broad-band = networks based on ATM technologies=20 b.. Presentation of verified ATM based applications=20 c.. Presentation of the offered services=20 d.. Perspectives of the ATM based technologies=20 Aims of the Symposium a.. To support dissemination of experiences pursuant to ATM technology = utilisation=20 b.. To get an extensive base of future customers and users=20 c.. To support various forms of links among users and service = providers.=20 The Symposium will be open for the exhibition of new ATM products and = services. Symposium Structure and Suggested Topics for Papers Symposium will consist of plenary sessions and technical sessions. Plenary Session I.(1st day of the Symposium) Presentations of topics of general interest, e.g. building the = "information highways" = in the = international context, strategic aims of governmental institutions etc. = = =20 Plenary Session II. (2nd day of the Symposium) Presentations of the world leading a.. vendors=20 b.. operators=20 c.. investors=20 d.. integrators and=20 e.. users of the ATM technology.=20 Presentations of the implemented pilot projects and services in the ATM = based networks. Technical Sessions: Technical sessions will be held on the second day of the Symposium, in = parallel = with the Plenary Session = II. It is proposed for general audience and specialists from = = research, industry and academic institutions, intending to = present their experiences = and = recommendations from the field of ATM technology utilisation. The = session will = cover the following = topics:=20 a.. Comparison of ATM technologies from the view of their = implementation, protection = of investments = and further development=20 b.. Standardisation of the ATM technology=20 c.. Multimedia applications (videoconferencing etc.)=20 d.. Broadband services and quality of services=20 e.. Broadband networks management=20 f.. Security in the broadband networks=20 g.. Future of the ATM technology=20 Exhibition The Symposium will promote ATM technology transfer between producers and = users. = Producers and institutions will have the = opportunity to present new products, components, = = applications, measurement equipment, etc. The exhibition will be held on = same premises = as the Symposium. Symposium Languages Slovak, Czech and English are the official languages of the symposium.=20 Symposium Proceedings The proceedings will be published in time for the Symposium. Each = registered participant = will receive the = proceedings in both printed and electronic forms (CD). Contributions Authors intending to submit a paper are welcome to mail in 1 page: a.. (approx. 300 words) of abstract on A4 standard sheet=20 b.. borders 2,5 cm=20 c.. Times New Roman or similar font, 12 p.,=20 d.. in one of the symposium languages.=20 The abstract should be headed as follows: a.. Title of the paper=20 b.. Author's name(s)=20 c.. Affiliation=20 d.. Mailing address.=20 The deadline is 10 of May 2000.=20 If you need extension for few days, please let us know in advance - = = we will try to accomodate such requests. The Organising Committee will also accept abstracts processed by the "MS = Word" = text editor and mailed to the = Organising Committee by Internet. Authors of papers, = = selected for the presentation, will be mailed a pack with = instructions for full papers. = . Deadlines 1.. Acceptance of registration forms and abstracts and/or proposals to = exhibition 10 May 2000 2.. Notification of acceptance, rules for full paper preparation and = Second Call 30 May 2000 3.. Receipt of full paper and advanced registration 15 August 2000 4.. Last information and Final Program 25 August 2000=20 All deadlines are as per postmark. Venue Presentation hall and associated lecture halls at the Technical = University, Letna 9, Kosice, Slovak Republic. Optional Agenda On the third day of the Symposium one of the following optional programs = will be at your disposal: a.. either technical program - visit to see the advanced ATM solutions = b.. or a trip, according to the choice (the High Tatras or Tokaj vine = region) with the social program.=20 Registration Fee It is supposed that the registration fee will be in range of 290 USD. = The PhD. students presenting = their contributions will have = 30 % discount from the registration fee. The details will be announced in the Second Announcement. Information about Kosice Kosice, the metropolis of Eastern Slovakia, has more than 750 years rich = history. It has always been = a town of both national and = international significance. Kosice belongs to the most beautiful and = lovely = cities in Slovakia. There is an attractive, recently = renewed historical centre. Towering over the centre = is the = gothic Cathedral of St. Elizabeth, completed in 1508. In last decades Kosice quickly expanded and at the present there are = nearly 250 thousands of inhabitants. = It is the second largest city = in the Slovak Republic (after the capital - Bratislava) and is the = centre of the = industrial activities, business and commerce, = communications, civic admi-nistration, shopping, cultural = and = leisure activities for the whole Eastern Slovakia.=20 The first in-town university was established in 1657. At present there = are five universities. = Technical University of = Kosice, established in 1952, with over 11 500 students, consists of = eight faculties. = The Faculty of Electrical Engineering and = Informatics, established in 1969, is the leading institution of = = higher education in fields of electrical engineering and information = technologies. The education programs = are firmly linked with = research and scientific activities. Address and Contact ATMTU 2000 Symposium Secretariat Martina Atanasova elfa, s.r.o. Letna 9 042 00 Kosice, Slovak Republic Tel.:+421-95-62 538 39, 62 53202 Fax: +421-95-62 532 00 E-mail: elfa@elfa.sk, www.elfa.sk ------=_NextPart_000_0A0F_01BFB95D.410F92E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Accept my apologies if you receive multiple = copies of=20 this call. Please forward to your=20 colleagues.
       =20        =20 ___________________________________________________________=
       &nbs= p;            = ; =20 The deadline for abstract submission is quickly approaching=20 (May)
       &nbs= p;      =20 ___________________________________________________________=
 
          &nbs= p; =20 THE SECOND INTERNATIONAL ATM TECHNOLOGY USERS=20 SYMPOSIUM
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;    =20 ATMTU = 2000
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =         =20 13 - 15 September 2000
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;   Kosice,=20 Slovakia
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D

Dear colleagues,

Enclosed is a Call for Papers for a = special issue=20 of The ATMTU 2000 Symposium.

Detailed information about the = Symposium and=20 registration form 4you will  also fing
on the Symposium web site: http://www.elfa.sk.
The Symposium = will be=20 devoted to exchange of experiences in  implementation = and
operation of the broad-band = networks based=20 on the ATM technology, presentation of
verified applications and = presentation of the=20 offered services. It will promote the ATM
technology transfer between the = producers and=20 customers - users of the ATM technology.
In framework of the Symposium we are = preparing=20 an exhibition of new products and
components of the ATM technology, = applications,=20 measurement equipment, etc.
The exhibition will be held in the = same location=20 as the Symposium. Companies and
institutions will have an opportunity = to=20 exhibit their products and advertise them among
the specialists and potential = customers. Also, a=20 special session will be devoted to
introducing their products and = applications=20 (short lectures in duration of approx. 10-20 min.).
In the plenary session we expect a = presentation=20 of the ambassadors of the ATM Forum
and also presentation of important = business,=20 academical and public representative.
 
Yours sincerely,

Organising = Committee=20 ATMTU=20 2000
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
Scope of=20 the Symposium

The Symposium will = be devoted to=20 the:

  • Presentation and = sharing of=20 experiences in the implementation and operation          &nbs= p;            = ;       =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     of=20 the broad-band networks based on ATM technologies=20
  • Presentation of = verified ATM=20 based applications=20
  • Presentation of = the offered=20 services=20
  • Perspectives of = the ATM based=20 technologies

Aims of the=20 Symposium

  • To support = dissemination of=20 experiences pursuant to ATM technology utilisation=20
  • To get an = extensive base of=20 future customers and users=20
  • To support = various forms of=20 links among users and service providers.

The Symposium will = be open for=20 the exhibition of new ATM products and services.

Symposium = Structure and=20 Suggested Topics for Papers

Symposium will = consist of=20 plenary sessions and technical sessions.

Plenary=20 Session I.(1st day=20 of the Symposium)

Presentations of = topics of=20 general interest, e.g. building the "information=20 highways"          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;=20 in the international context, strategic aims of governmental = institutions=20 etc.           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           =20

Plenary=20 Session II. (2nd day=20 of the Symposium)

Presentations of the = world=20 leading

  • vendors=20
  • operators=20
  • investors=20
  • integrators = and=20
  • users of the ATM=20 technology.

Presentations of the = implemented=20 pilot projects and services in the ATM based networks.

Technical=20 Sessions:

Technical sessions = will be held=20 on the second day of the Symposium, in parallel   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             with the Plenary Session = II. It is=20 proposed for general audience and specialists from   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20 research, industry and academic institutions, intending to present their = experiences           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     and=20 recommendations from the field of ATM technology utilisation. The = session will=20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             cover the = following=20 topics: 

  • Comparison of ATM = technologies from the view of their implementation, protection=20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         of investments and further=20 development=20
  • Standardisation = of the ATM=20 technology=20
  • Multimedia = applications=20 (videoconferencing etc.)=20
  • Broadband = services and=20 quality of services=20
  • Broadband = networks=20 management=20
  • Security in the = broadband=20 networks=20
  • Future of the ATM = technology
Exhibition

The Symposium will = promote ATM=20 technology transfer between producers and users.   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             Producers and=20 institutions will have the opportunity to present new products, = components,=20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             applications,=20 measurement equipment, etc. The exhibition will be held on same=20 premises         =    =20             =    =20               &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;          =20 as the Symposium.

Symposium=20 Languages

Slovak, Czech and = English are=20 the official languages of the symposium.

Symposium=20 Proceedings

The proceedings will = be=20 published in time for the Symposium. Each registered=20 participant           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             will receive = the=20 proceedings in both printed and electronic forms (CD).

Contributions

Authors intending to = submit a=20 paper are welcome to mail in 1 page:

  • (approx. 300 = words) of=20 abstract on A4 standard sheet=20
  • borders 2,5 = cm=20
  • Times New Roman = or similar=20 font, 12 p.,=20
  • in one of the = symposium=20 languages.

The abstract should = be headed as=20 follows:

  • Title of the = paper=20
  • Author's = name(s)=20
  • Affiliation=20
  • Mailing = address.=20

The deadline is = 10=20 of May 2000.

If you need = extension=20 for few days,  please let us know in advance -    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     we=20 will try to accomodate such = requests.

The Organising Committee will = also accept=20 abstracts processed by the "MS Word"    =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     text editor and mailed to the Organising = Committee by=20 Internet. Authors of papers,        =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20 selected for the presentation, will be mailed a pack with instructions = for full=20 papers.           =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           =20 .

Deadlines
  1. Acceptance of = registration=20 forms and abstracts and/or proposals to exhibition

    10 May=20 2000
  2. Notification of = acceptance,=20 rules for full paper preparation and Second Call

    30 May=20 2000
  3. Receipt of full = paper and=20 advanced registration

    15 August 2000
  4. Last information = and Final=20 Program

    25 August 2000     
 
 All=20 deadlines are as per postmark.
Venue

Presentation hall and=20 associated lecture halls at the Technical University,
Letna 9, = Kosice, Slovak=20 Republic.

Optional=20 Agenda

On the third day of = the=20 Symposium one of the following optional programs will be at your=20 disposal:

  • either technical = program -=20 visit to see the advanced ATM solutions=20
  • or a trip, = according to the=20 choice (the High Tatras or Tokaj vine region) with the social program. =
Registration = Fee

It is supposed that = the=20 registration fee will be in range of 290 USD. The PhD. students=20 presenting           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             their = contributions=20 will have 30 % discount from the registration fee.

The details will be = announced in=20 the Second Announcement.

Information = about=20 Kosice

Kosice, the = metropolis of=20 Eastern Slovakia, has more than 750 years rich history. It has always=20 been           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;  =20 a town of both national and international significance. Kosice belongs = to the=20 most beautiful and lovely    =      =20              =20             =20             =    =20             =    =20                = cities in=20 Slovakia. There is an attractive, recently renewed historical centre. = Towering=20 over the centre           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             is the gothic = Cathedral=20 of St. Elizabeth, completed in 1508.

In last decades Kosice = quickly=20 expanded and at the present there are nearly 250 thousands of=20 inhabitants.           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     It is the second largest city in the Slovak Republic = (after=20 the capital - Bratislava) and is the centre of the   =20            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         industrial activities, business = and=20 commerce, communications, civic admi-nistration, shopping,=20 cultural           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         and leisure activities for the = whole=20 Eastern Slovakia.

The first in-town university was established = in 1657.=20 At present there are five universities.     =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     Technical University of Kosice, established in 1952, = with=20 over 11 500 students, consists of eight faculties.    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         The Faculty of Electrical = Engineering and=20 Informatics, established in 1969, is the leading institution=20 of            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20 higher education in fields of electrical engineering and information=20 technologies. The education programs     =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         are firmly linked with research = and=20 scientific activities.

Address and=20 Contact
ATMTU = 2000=20 Symposium Secretariat
Martina Atanasova
elfa,=20 s.r.o.
Letna 9
042 00 Kosice, Slovak = Republic

Tel.:+421-95-62 538=20 39, 62 53202
Fax: +421-95-62 532 00
E-mail: elfa@elfa.sk, www.elfa.sk

------=_NextPart_000_0A0F_01BFB95D.410F92E0-- From rem-conf Mon May 08 19:06:18 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon May 08 19:06:17 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12ozJs-0007af-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:00:20 -0700 Received: from ns.r-net.sk [193.58.193.10] (root) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12ozJp-0007aV-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:00:18 -0700 Received: from jakab (Kosice55.r-net.sk [193.58.192.183]) by NS.r-net.sk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA24341; Tue, 9 May 2000 03:55:24 +0200 Message-ID: <001601bfb95a$91e59280$b7c03ac1@jakab> From: "jakab frantisek" To: Cc: , =?iso-8859-2?B?UmVu6SBTYWxmaWNr/Q==?= , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Subject: ATMTU 2000 Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 02:40:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0B3D_01BFB95F.E0741980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0B3D_01BFB95F.E0741980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Accept my apologies if you receive multiple copies of this call. Please = forward to your colleagues. = ___________________________________________________________ The deadline for abstract submission is quickly = approaching (May) = ___________________________________________________________ =20 THE SECOND INTERNATIONAL ATM TECHNOLOGY USERS SYMPOSIUM ATMTU 2000 13 - 15 September 2000 Kosice, Slovakia =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Dear colleagues, Enclosed is a Call for Papers for a special issue of The ATMTU 2000 = Symposium.=20 Detailed information about the Symposium and registration form 4you will = also fing on the Symposium web site: http://www.elfa.sk. The Symposium will be devoted to exchange of experiences in = implementation and operation of the broad-band networks based on the ATM technology, = presentation of=20 verified applications and presentation of the offered services. It will = promote the ATM=20 technology transfer between the producers and customers - users of the = ATM technology. In framework of the Symposium we are preparing an exhibition of new = products and=20 components of the ATM technology, applications, measurement equipment, = etc. The exhibition will be held in the same location as the Symposium. = Companies and institutions will have an opportunity to exhibit their products and = advertise them among the specialists and potential customers. Also, a special session will be = devoted to=20 introducing their products and applications (short lectures in duration = of approx. 10-20 min.).=20 In the plenary session we expect a presentation of the ambassadors of = the ATM Forum and also presentation of important business, academical and public = representative. Yours sincerely, Organising Committee ATMTU 2000 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Scope of the Symposium The Symposium will be devoted to the: a.. Presentation and sharing of experiences in the implementation and = operation = of the broad-band = networks based on ATM technologies=20 b.. Presentation of verified ATM based applications=20 c.. Presentation of the offered services=20 d.. Perspectives of the ATM based technologies=20 Aims of the Symposium a.. To support dissemination of experiences pursuant to ATM technology = utilisation=20 b.. To get an extensive base of future customers and users=20 c.. To support various forms of links among users and service = providers.=20 The Symposium will be open for the exhibition of new ATM products and = services. Symposium Structure and Suggested Topics for Papers Symposium will consist of plenary sessions and technical sessions. Plenary Session I.(1st day of the Symposium) Presentations of topics of general interest, e.g. building the = "information highways" = in the = international context, strategic aims of governmental institutions etc. = = =20 Plenary Session II. (2nd day of the Symposium) Presentations of the world leading a.. vendors=20 b.. operators=20 c.. investors=20 d.. integrators and=20 e.. users of the ATM technology.=20 Presentations of the implemented pilot projects and services in the ATM = based networks. Technical Sessions: Technical sessions will be held on the second day of the Symposium, in = parallel = with the Plenary Session = II. It is proposed for general audience and specialists from = = research, industry and academic institutions, intending to = present their experiences = and = recommendations from the field of ATM technology utilisation. The = session will = cover the following = topics:=20 a.. Comparison of ATM technologies from the view of their = implementation, protection = of investments = and further development=20 b.. Standardisation of the ATM technology=20 c.. Multimedia applications (videoconferencing etc.)=20 d.. Broadband services and quality of services=20 e.. Broadband networks management=20 f.. Security in the broadband networks=20 g.. Future of the ATM technology=20 Exhibition The Symposium will promote ATM technology transfer between producers and = users. = Producers and institutions will have the = opportunity to present new products, components, = = applications, measurement equipment, etc. The exhibition will be held on = same premises = as the Symposium. Symposium Languages Slovak, Czech and English are the official languages of the symposium.=20 Symposium Proceedings The proceedings will be published in time for the Symposium. Each = registered participant = will receive the = proceedings in both printed and electronic forms (CD). Contributions Authors intending to submit a paper are welcome to mail in 1 page: a.. (approx. 300 words) of abstract on A4 standard sheet=20 b.. borders 2,5 cm=20 c.. Times New Roman or similar font, 12 p.,=20 d.. in one of the symposium languages.=20 The abstract should be headed as follows: a.. Title of the paper=20 b.. Author's name(s)=20 c.. Affiliation=20 d.. Mailing address.=20 The deadline is 10 of May 2000.=20 If you need extension for few days, please let us know in advance - = = we will try to accomodate such requests. The Organising Committee will also accept abstracts processed by the "MS = Word" = text editor and mailed to the = Organising Committee by Internet. Authors of papers, = = selected for the presentation, will be mailed a pack with = instructions for full papers. = . Deadlines 1.. Acceptance of registration forms and abstracts and/or proposals to = exhibition 10 May 2000 2.. Notification of acceptance, rules for full paper preparation and = Second Call 30 May 2000 3.. Receipt of full paper and advanced registration 15 August 2000 4.. Last information and Final Program 25 August 2000=20 All deadlines are as per postmark. Venue Presentation hall and associated lecture halls at the Technical = University, Letna 9, Kosice, Slovak Republic. Optional Agenda On the third day of the Symposium one of the following optional programs = will be at your disposal: a.. either technical program - visit to see the advanced ATM solutions = b.. or a trip, according to the choice (the High Tatras or Tokaj vine = region) with the social program.=20 Registration Fee It is supposed that the registration fee will be in range of 290 USD. = The PhD. students presenting = their contributions will have = 30 % discount from the registration fee. The details will be announced in the Second Announcement. Information about Kosice Kosice, the metropolis of Eastern Slovakia, has more than 750 years rich = history. It has always been = a town of both national and = international significance. Kosice belongs to the most beautiful and = lovely = cities in Slovakia. There is an attractive, recently = renewed historical centre. Towering over the centre = is the = gothic Cathedral of St. Elizabeth, completed in 1508. In last decades Kosice quickly expanded and at the present there are = nearly 250 thousands of inhabitants. = It is the second largest city = in the Slovak Republic (after the capital - Bratislava) and is the = centre of the = industrial activities, business and commerce, = communications, civic admi-nistration, shopping, cultural = and = leisure activities for the whole Eastern Slovakia.=20 The first in-town university was established in 1657. At present there = are five universities. = Technical University of = Kosice, established in 1952, with over 11 500 students, consists of = eight faculties. = The Faculty of Electrical Engineering and = Informatics, established in 1969, is the leading institution of = = higher education in fields of electrical engineering and information = technologies. The education programs = are firmly linked with = research and scientific activities. Address and Contact ATMTU 2000 Symposium Secretariat Martina Atanasova elfa, s.r.o. Letna 9 042 00 Kosice, Slovak Republic Tel.:+421-95-62 538 39, 62 53202 Fax: +421-95-62 532 00 E-mail: elfa@elfa.sk, www.elfa.sk ------=_NextPart_000_0B3D_01BFB95F.E0741980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Accept my apologies if you receive multiple = copies of=20 this call. Please forward to your=20 colleagues.
       =20        =20 ___________________________________________________________=
       &nbs= p;            = ; =20 The deadline for abstract submission is quickly approaching=20 (May)
       &nbs= p;      =20 ___________________________________________________________=
 
          &nbs= p; =20 THE SECOND INTERNATIONAL ATM TECHNOLOGY USERS=20 SYMPOSIUM
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;    =20 ATMTU = 2000
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =         =20 13 - 15 September 2000
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;   Kosice,=20 Slovakia
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D

Dear colleagues,

Enclosed is a Call for Papers for a = special issue=20 of The ATMTU 2000 Symposium.

Detailed information about the = Symposium and=20 registration form 4you will  also fing
on the Symposium web site: http://www.elfa.sk.
The Symposium = will be=20 devoted to exchange of experiences in  implementation = and
operation of the broad-band = networks based=20 on the ATM technology, presentation of
verified applications and = presentation of the=20 offered services. It will promote the ATM
technology transfer between the = producers and=20 customers - users of the ATM technology.
In framework of the Symposium we are = preparing=20 an exhibition of new products and
components of the ATM technology, = applications,=20 measurement equipment, etc.
The exhibition will be held in the = same location=20 as the Symposium. Companies and
institutions will have an opportunity = to=20 exhibit their products and advertise them among
the specialists and potential = customers. Also, a=20 special session will be devoted to
introducing their products and = applications=20 (short lectures in duration of approx. 10-20 min.).
In the plenary session we expect a = presentation=20 of the ambassadors of the ATM Forum
and also presentation of important = business,=20 academical and public representative.
 
Yours sincerely,

Organising = Committee=20 ATMTU=20 2000
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
Scope of=20 the Symposium

The Symposium will = be devoted to=20 the:

  • Presentation and = sharing of=20 experiences in the implementation and operation          &nbs= p;            = ;       =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     of=20 the broad-band networks based on ATM technologies=20
  • Presentation of = verified ATM=20 based applications=20
  • Presentation of = the offered=20 services=20
  • Perspectives of = the ATM based=20 technologies

Aims of the=20 Symposium

  • To support = dissemination of=20 experiences pursuant to ATM technology utilisation=20
  • To get an = extensive base of=20 future customers and users=20
  • To support = various forms of=20 links among users and service providers.

The Symposium will = be open for=20 the exhibition of new ATM products and services.

Symposium = Structure and=20 Suggested Topics for Papers

Symposium will = consist of=20 plenary sessions and technical sessions.

Plenary=20 Session I.(1st day=20 of the Symposium)

Presentations of = topics of=20 general interest, e.g. building the "information=20 highways"          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;=20 in the international context, strategic aims of governmental = institutions=20 etc.           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           =20

Plenary=20 Session II. (2nd day=20 of the Symposium)

Presentations of the = world=20 leading

  • vendors=20
  • operators=20
  • investors=20
  • integrators = and=20
  • users of the ATM=20 technology.

Presentations of the = implemented=20 pilot projects and services in the ATM based networks.

Technical=20 Sessions:

Technical sessions = will be held=20 on the second day of the Symposium, in parallel   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             with the Plenary Session = II. It is=20 proposed for general audience and specialists from   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20 research, industry and academic institutions, intending to present their = experiences           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     and=20 recommendations from the field of ATM technology utilisation. The = session will=20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             cover the = following=20 topics: 

  • Comparison of ATM = technologies from the view of their implementation, protection=20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         of investments and further=20 development=20
  • Standardisation = of the ATM=20 technology=20
  • Multimedia = applications=20 (videoconferencing etc.)=20
  • Broadband = services and=20 quality of services=20
  • Broadband = networks=20 management=20
  • Security in the = broadband=20 networks=20
  • Future of the ATM = technology
Exhibition

The Symposium will = promote ATM=20 technology transfer between producers and users.   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             Producers and=20 institutions will have the opportunity to present new products, = components,=20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             applications,=20 measurement equipment, etc. The exhibition will be held on same=20 premises         =    =20             =    =20               &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;          =20 as the Symposium.

Symposium=20 Languages

Slovak, Czech and = English are=20 the official languages of the symposium.

Symposium=20 Proceedings

The proceedings will = be=20 published in time for the Symposium. Each registered=20 participant           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             will receive = the=20 proceedings in both printed and electronic forms (CD).

Contributions

Authors intending to = submit a=20 paper are welcome to mail in 1 page:

  • (approx. 300 = words) of=20 abstract on A4 standard sheet=20
  • borders 2,5 = cm=20
  • Times New Roman = or similar=20 font, 12 p.,=20
  • in one of the = symposium=20 languages.

The abstract should = be headed as=20 follows:

  • Title of the = paper=20
  • Author's = name(s)=20
  • Affiliation=20
  • Mailing = address.=20

The deadline is = 10=20 of May 2000.

If you need = extension=20 for few days,  please let us know in advance -    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     we=20 will try to accomodate such = requests.

The Organising Committee will = also accept=20 abstracts processed by the "MS Word"    =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     text editor and mailed to the Organising = Committee by=20 Internet. Authors of papers,        =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20 selected for the presentation, will be mailed a pack with instructions = for full=20 papers.           =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           =20 .

Deadlines
  1. Acceptance of = registration=20 forms and abstracts and/or proposals to exhibition

    10 May=20 2000
  2. Notification of = acceptance,=20 rules for full paper preparation and Second Call

    30 May=20 2000
  3. Receipt of full = paper and=20 advanced registration

    15 August 2000
  4. Last information = and Final=20 Program

    25 August 2000     
 
 All=20 deadlines are as per postmark.
Venue

Presentation hall and=20 associated lecture halls at the Technical University,
Letna 9, = Kosice, Slovak=20 Republic.

Optional=20 Agenda

On the third day of = the=20 Symposium one of the following optional programs will be at your=20 disposal:

  • either technical = program -=20 visit to see the advanced ATM solutions=20
  • or a trip, = according to the=20 choice (the High Tatras or Tokaj vine region) with the social program. =
Registration = Fee

It is supposed that = the=20 registration fee will be in range of 290 USD. The PhD. students=20 presenting           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             their = contributions=20 will have 30 % discount from the registration fee.

The details will be = announced in=20 the Second Announcement.

Information = about=20 Kosice

Kosice, the = metropolis of=20 Eastern Slovakia, has more than 750 years rich history. It has always=20 been           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;  =20 a town of both national and international significance. Kosice belongs = to the=20 most beautiful and lovely    =      =20              =20             =20             =    =20             =    =20                = cities in=20 Slovakia. There is an attractive, recently renewed historical centre. = Towering=20 over the centre           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             is the gothic = Cathedral=20 of St. Elizabeth, completed in 1508.

In last decades Kosice = quickly=20 expanded and at the present there are nearly 250 thousands of=20 inhabitants.           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     It is the second largest city in the Slovak Republic = (after=20 the capital - Bratislava) and is the centre of the   =20            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         industrial activities, business = and=20 commerce, communications, civic admi-nistration, shopping,=20 cultural           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         and leisure activities for the = whole=20 Eastern Slovakia.

The first in-town university was established = in 1657.=20 At present there are five universities.     =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     Technical University of Kosice, established in 1952, = with=20 over 11 500 students, consists of eight faculties.    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         The Faculty of Electrical = Engineering and=20 Informatics, established in 1969, is the leading institution=20 of            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20 higher education in fields of electrical engineering and information=20 technologies. The education programs     =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         are firmly linked with research = and=20 scientific activities.

Address and=20 Contact
ATMTU = 2000=20 Symposium Secretariat
Martina Atanasova
elfa,=20 s.r.o.
Letna 9
042 00 Kosice, Slovak = Republic

Tel.:+421-95-62 538=20 39, 62 53202
Fax: +421-95-62 532 00
E-mail: elfa@elfa.sk, www.elfa.sk

------=_NextPart_000_0B3D_01BFB95F.E0741980-- From rem-conf Mon May 08 19:24:04 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Mon May 08 19:24:02 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12ozal-0000mp-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:17:47 -0700 Received: from dialup-63.208.206.217.tampa1.level3.net (63.208.206.217) [63.208.206.217] by mail1.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12ozaW-0000kh-00; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:17:34 -0700 From: JLB@CUSTOMERS To: rem-conf@KFIL.es.net Subject: Don't Delete, Read This -FBOL X-Reply-To: 4X4@england.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:17:34 -0700 X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list $ Earn Unlimited Income Working From Home!!!$ DO NOT DELETE THIS, PRINT IT, AND READ IT . IT HAS WORKED SO WELL, THIS IS MY THIRD TIME AROUND. I QUIT MY BORING JOB AND WORK AT THIS ABOUT ONE TO TWO HOURS A DAY PROCESSING ORDERS, INCLUDING MY DRIVE TO THE BANK! SO GO FOR IT, YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID! Dear Friend, You can earn $50,000 or more in next the 90 days sending e-mail, Seem impossible? Read on for details; is there a catch; NO, there is no catch, just send your emails and be on your way to financial freedom. "AS SEEN ON NATIONAL TELEVISION" Thank you for your time and Interest. This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the Internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below to see, if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are, absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home. The results of this show have been truly remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved are doing,much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of lately. You will understand once you experience it. "HERE IT IS BELOW" ================================================ ================================================ *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $50,000 in less than 90 days! Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN !!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will come true. This Multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly 100% EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using e-mail. Get your piece of this action !!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 500,000 millionaires in the U.S., 20% (100,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show 45 people become millionaires everyday through Multi- Level Marketing. You may have heard this story before, but over the summer Donald Trump made an appearance on the David Letterman show. Dave asked him what he would do if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch. Without hesitating, Trump said he would find a good network marketing company and get to work. The audience started to hoot and boo him. He looked out at the audience and dead-panned his response "That's why I'm sitting up here and you are all sitting out there!" With network marketing you have two sources of income. Direct commissions from sales you make yourself and commissions from sales made by people you introduce to the business. Residual income is the secret of the wealthy. It means investing time or money once and getting paid again and again and again. In network marketing, it also means getting paid for the work of others. The enclosed information is something I almost let slip through my fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I re-read everything and gave some thought and study to it. My name is Johnathon Rourke. Two years ago, the corporation I worked at for the past twelve years down-sized and my position was eliminated. After unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own business. Over the past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial problems. I owed my family, friends and creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. I had to refinance and borrow against my home to support my family and struggling business. AT THAT MOMENT something significant happened in my life and I am writing to share the experience in hopes that this will change your life FOREVER FINANCIALLY!!! In mid December, I received this program via e-mail. Six month's prior to receiving this program I had been sending away for information on various business opportunities. All of the programs I received, in my opinion, were not cost effective. They were either too difficult for me to comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to risk to see if they would work or not. One claimed that I would make a million dollars in one year...it didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make it! But like I was saying, in December of 1997 I received this program. I didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing list. THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! After reading it several times, to make sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was a MONEY MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I wanted to start, without putting me further into debt. After I got a pencil and paper and figured it out, I would at least get my money back. But like most of you I was still a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) 24 hrs, and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! After determining the program was LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT." Initially I sent out 10,000 e-mails. It cost me about $15 for my time on-line. The great thing about e-mail is that I don't need any money for printing to send out the program, and because all of my orders are fulfilled via e-mail, the only expense is my time. I am telling you I was starting to receive orders for REPORT #1.By January 13, I had received 26 orders for REPORT #1. Your goal is to "RECEIVE at least 20 ORDERS FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF YOU DON'T, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO!" My first step in making $50,000 in 90 days was done. By January 30, I had received 196 orders for REPORT #2. Your goal is to "RECEIVE AT LEAST 100+ ORDERS FOR REPORT #2 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF NOT, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU HAVE 100 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY, RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $50,000 GOAL." Well, I had 196 orders for REPORT #2, 96 more than I needed. So I sat back and relaxed. By March 1, of my e-mailing of 10,000, I received $58,000 with more coming in every day. I paid off ALL my debts and bought a much needed new car. Please take time to read the attached program, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!!! Remember, it won't work if you don't try it. This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rules of not trying to place your name in a different place. It won't work, you'll lose out on a lot of money! In order for this program to work, you must meet your goal of 20+ orders for REPORT #1, and 100+ orders for REPORT #2 and you will make $50,000 or more in 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!! If you choose not to participate in this program, I am sorry. It really is a great opportunity with little cost or risk to you. If you choose to participate, follow the program and you will be on your way to financial security. If you are a fellow business owner and are in financial trouble like I was, or you want to start your own business, consider this a sign. I DID! Sincerely, Johnathon Rourke P.S. Do you have any idea what 11,700 $5 bills ($58,000) look like piled up on a kitchen table? IT'S AWESOME! A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM: By the time you have read the enclosed program and reports, you should have concluded that such a program, and one that is legal, could not have been created by an amateur. Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a profitable business for 10 years. Then in 1979 my business began falling off. I was doing the same things that were previously successful for me, but it wasn't working. Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the economy. Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had been with us since 1945. I don't have to tell you what happened to the unemployment rate... because many of you know from first hand experience. There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. I should also point out that I will not see a penny of this money, nor anyone else who has provided a testimonial for this program. I have already made over 4 MILLION DOLLARS! I have retired from the program after sending out over 16,000 programs. Now I have several offices that make this and several other programs here and over seas. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 50,000...and your name will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! ************************************************************ "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! Jody Jacobs, Richmond, VA ************************************************************ HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSAND OF DOLLAR$ INSTRUCTIONS: This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $50,000 or more in the next 90 days. Before you say "BULL... ", please read this program carefully. This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what you do: As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the USA allows you to recruit new multi-level business partners, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store oroffice. This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere: This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). * For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) and to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS! * When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four reports. You will need all four reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. * Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list,in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "f" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the four reports, take this Advertisement and remove the name and address under REPORT #4. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $50,000! c. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. d. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. e. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. f. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY! 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the Instruction portion of this letter. Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously already have an Internet Connection and e-mail is FREE! To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 4 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much, much more. In addition you will be provided with information on Internet Marketing Clubs such as INTERNET MARKETING RESOURCES (IMR): This Is one the premiere Internet marketing clubs on the INTERNET. This club provides a forum where internet marketers from all over the world can exchange ideas and secrets on Internet Marketing. In addition, this club specializes in providing free internet marketing tools and services for the Do-Yourself-Internet-Marketer. They will provide you with free bulk e-mail software and up to 1,000,000 fresh e-mail addresses each week. This club will provide you with hundreds of free resources, which include: How to obtain free web sites, how to obtain top rankings in search engines for your web-site, how to send bulk e-mail into AOL and Compuserve, how to market your products on newsgroups, free classified ads, electronic malls, bulletin boards, banner ads and much more. There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.5% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.5% response, that is only 10 orders for REPORT #1. Those 10 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 20,000. Out of those 0.5%, 100 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 100 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 200,000. The 0.5% response to that is 1,000 orders for REPORT #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,000,000 total. The 0.5% response to that is 10,000 orders for REPORT #4. That's 10,000 $5 bills for you. CASH!!! Your total income in this example is $50 + $500 + $5,000+ $50,000 for a total of $55,550!!! REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE !!! REPORT #2 will show you the best methods for bulk e-mailing, tell you where to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail lists. METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level-your 10 members with $5 .........$50 2nd level-10 mems from those 10 ($5 x 100).......$500 3rd level-10 mems from those 100 ($5 x 1,000) $5,000 4th level-10 mems from those 1,000 ($5 x 10k) $50,000 THIS TOTALS ---------------------------$55,550 Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! ------------------------------------------ AVAILABLE REPORTS ------------------------------------------ *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes: - ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT CHEQUES NOT ACCEPTED - ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL - Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper - On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: ______________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Jannette Black 7101 18th St. N. St. Petersburg, FL. 33702 _____________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Myron Creamer 6720 Cherrywood Dr Beaumont TX 77706-4215 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: H. Anker 355 N. Tusa Rd Maricopa,AZ,85239 ______________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Lance Brillion Box 38 North Battleford, SK, Canada, S9A2X6 ______________________________________________________ About 50,000 new people get online every month! ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program. Please answer one question. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE? If the answer is yes, please look at the folllowing facts about this program: 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE! 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP! 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO ADVERTISE! 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OF MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD! 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $20 INVESTMENT IS YOUR TIME! 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT! 7. THIS PROGRAM WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER. ******* T E S T I M O N I A L S ******* This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. Steven Bardfield, Portland, OR ************************************************************ My name is Mitchell. My wife, Jody, and I live in Chicago, IL. I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to Jody about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined Jody in her "hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM. Mitchell Wolf MD., Chicago, IL ************************************************************ The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in. Charles Morris, Esq. ************************************************************ Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return. Paige Willis, Des Moines, IA ************************************************************ I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program, ....11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more than $41,000 on the first try!! Violet Wilson, Johnstown, PA *********************************************************** This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spending! Kerry Ford, Centerport, NY ************************************************************ ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1-(800)827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings and results are highly dependant on your activities and advertising. This letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. Any testimonials or amounts of earnings listed in this letter may be factual or fictitious. If you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington DC. -------------------- If this message has reached you in error, please accept our apologies. To remove your address from future mailings, please reply with "REMOVE" in the subject heading. We promptly honour all remove requests This message is sent in compliance of the new email bill: Per SECTION 301, Paragraph (a) (2) (C) of S. 1618, http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialmail/ God Bless All Of You, May this Money be used according to His Will. From rem-conf Tue May 09 16:46:39 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue May 09 16:46:38 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12pJWP-00054W-00; Tue, 9 May 2000 16:34:37 -0700 Received: from gumby.cs.berkeley.edu [128.32.32.38] (root) by mail1.es.net with esmtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12pJWN-00054M-00; Tue, 9 May 2000 16:34:35 -0700 Received: from BMRC.Berkeley.EDU (opus.cs.berkeley.edu [128.32.131.116]) by gumby.cs.berkeley.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17748; Tue, 9 May 2000 16:32:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3918A013.4F30FA1C@BMRC.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 16:32:35 -0700 From: "Lawrence A. Rowe" Reply-To: Rowe@bmrc.berkeley.edu Organization: U.C. Berkeley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Rowe, Lawrence" Subject: Planning for 1st OpenMash Workshop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Hi - Well, after a long period of silence, we are slowly getting the OpenMash project off the ground. We want to hold a 1-2 day workshop at Berkeley this summer. The goal is to do some community building, introductory/advanced training on using and extending mash, and lastly provide a forum for discussion of what is being done and what needs to be done to enable high bandwidth interactive streaming media applications. Given other constraints, our thought was to hold the meeting thursday July 20 and if there is enough interest continue on friday July 21. At this point we need some indication of who wants to attend, what topics they would be most interested in, and whether you'd be willing to give a short presentation on your application and use of Mash. Here are some possible presentation/session topics. Let me know which, if any, you would be most interested in attending. "Adding a New Device/Media Type to Mash" "TclCl - The Magic between C++ and Otcl" "Interfacing to Commercial Streaming Media Systems" "Distributed Client/Server Programming in Mash" "Finding Your Way Around the Mash Source Code" Any other comments and feedback appreciated. Larry Rowe -- Professor Lawrence A. Rowe Internet: Rowe@BMRC.Berkeley.EDU Computer Science Division - EECS Phone: 510-642-5117 University of California, Berkeley Fax: 510-642-5615 Berkeley, CA 94720-1776 URL: http://bmrc.berkeley.edu/~larry From rem-conf Wed May 10 08:36:04 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 10 08:36:02 2000 Received: from list by mail2.es.net with local (Exim 1.92 #1) for rem-conf-dist@es.net id 12pYHT-00067T-00; Wed, 10 May 2000 08:20:11 -0700 Received: from dialup-209.246.100.173.newyork2.level3.net ([209.246.100.173] helo=mailer1.netexecutive.com) by mail2.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 12pYHR-000673-00; Wed, 10 May 2000 08:20:09 -0700 From: Subject: A Great Way to Supplement Your Income! - ADV Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:45:08 Message-Id: <346.885187.315397@mailer1.netexecutive.com> Bcc: To: rem-conf@es.net X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list If you would like information on a legitimate way to earn a significant income from your computer, then type "More Info." in the subject box. I will send you information that can easily add $2,000.00 or more a month to your income. This is not a get rich quick scheme. ***************************************************************** If this email has reached you as an error, I apologize. Simply type "Remove" in the subject box and I will remove your name from my list. From rem-conf Wed May 10 10:38:21 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 10 10:38:20 2000 Received: from list by mail2.es.net with local (Exim 1.92 #1) for rem-conf-dist@es.net id 12paGy-0006zF-00; Wed, 10 May 2000 10:27:48 -0700 Received: from [203.106.107.108] (helo=unknown) by mail2.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 12paGw-0006z5-00; Wed, 10 May 2000 10:27:46 -0700 From: Subject: Homeworker Needed Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 02:00:30 Message-Id: Bcc: To: rem-conf@es.net X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Interested to earn $1200 or more? We're seeking people to assist in typing and data processing works at home. Only serious applicants need to apply. From rem-conf Wed May 10 16:11:26 2000 From rem-conf-request@es.net Wed May 10 16:11:25 2000 Received: from list by mail1.es.net with local (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12pfTb-0002s1-00; Wed, 10 May 2000 16:01:11 -0700 Received: from (linux1.charleskendall.com) [193.130.145.37] by mail1.es.net with smtp (Exim 1.81 #2) id 12pfTW-0002rD-00; Wed, 10 May 2000 16:01:07 -0700 Received: from myrop ([4.4.205.214]) by linux1.charleskendall.com ; Thu, 04 May 2000 21:56:00 -0000 Message-ID: <00007b2b30ab$00007caf$00007252@taffar (pool-209-138-205-92-dlls.grid.net [219.138.205.92]) by smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (ts029d25.nil-ny.concentric.net [216.173.24.181])> To: From: howardloan@newmail.net Subject: Strategies on the U.S. Dollar 29266 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 17:00:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Reply-To: howardloan@newmail.net X-Mailing-List: X-Loop: rem-conf@es.net Precedence: list Do You Yen To Be A Miilionare! <= /HEAD>

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I
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