Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa23248; 1 Apr 97 13:44 EST Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa15402; 1 Apr 97 13:44 EST Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:07:52 -0800 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:07:51 -0800 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-26) id ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:07:50 -0800 Received: from akamai.isi.edu (akamai-a.isi.edu) by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:07:49 -0800 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:11:24 -0800 From: jkrey@isi.edu Posted-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:11:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199704011811.AA17623@akamai.isi.edu> Received: by akamai.isi.edu (5.65c/4.0.3-6) id ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:11:24 -0800 To: uswg@isi.edu Subject: Reminder - Input needed for Document Update Project Sender: owner-uswg@isi.edu Precedence: bulk Folks, A reminder that the USWG will be working on an update to FYI 4, RFC 1594 at the Memphis IETF. Jodi Ito and Sepi Boroumand volunteered at the last IETF to coordinate this effort. Please come prepared to work on the update to this FYI RFC. We will be devoting much of this session to this project. The document can be obtained from your local RFC repositories, or from: ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/fyi/fyi4.txt So, bring along a marked up copy and contribute to the cause! [Or, if you are not going to be at the Memphis IETF, we still need your contributions via email to the USWG list (uswg@isi.edu).] Thanks! Joyce   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa06608; 4 Apr 97 2:29 EST Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa03409; 4 Apr 97 2:29 EST Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:17:37 -0800 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:17:36 -0800 Received: from relay1.Hawaii.Edu by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-26) id ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:17:35 -0800 Received: from uhunix5.its.Hawaii.Edu ([128.171.44.55]) by relay1.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <586904(5)>; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:12:11 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix5.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <188967(1)>; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:17:20 -1000 Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:17:17 -1000 From: Jodi-Ann Ito X-Sender: jodi@uhunix5 To: uswg@isi.edu Subject: FYI 4 update Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-uswg@isi.edu Precedence: bulk Hi - in preparation for Memphis, I've extracted all the questions from the current FYI4 doc to make it easier to review... Could you please read thru them for "question appropriateness" and then at the USV meeting we'll try to nail down a pretty close to final list. Then we can start hammering out the answers. In reading thru the FYI, many of the answers needs updating. Some early comments received are: 1) No mention of the mbone 2) No mention of the six-bone (The IPv6 backbone) 3) Addition of/new top level domains in the DNS/InterNIC section (.com .net .gov .edu .mil .org + .firm .www [and the other new ones]) 4) Update of Mosaic and expansion of WWW section to include search engines and commercial browsers (IE, Netscape). 5) A secton to explain how addresses are assigned (Class A vs. Class C). Methinks this may be another RFC that is out there, or just a "policy page" posted somewhere at InterNIC. Possibly make a pointer to that page for this topic? 6) A section about the migration to IPv6 (this again could be its own RFC, and possibly is). 7) Addition to mention commercial services (info411.com, yahoo.com) for finding out people's email addresses (as well as snail addresses and phone numbers). 8) More InterNIC policy additions-- payment for domains, also they now seem to control the distribution of IP numbers. 9) EARN/TERENA Guide to Network Resource Tools overlap esp. in section 8 of fyi4 - would be useful to cross-link the two. We'd also like to update the suggested reading list. As Joyce mentioned, please bring your marked up copies! Or email us your comments. Thanks. -jodi ----- FYI 4 Questions ----- 3. Questions About the Internet 3.1 What is the Internet? 3.2 I just got on the Internet. What can I do now? 3.3 How do I find out if a site has a computer on the Internet? 3.4 How do I get a list of all the hosts on the Internet? 4. Questions About TCP/IP 4.1 What is TCP/IP? 4.2 What are the other well-known standard protocols in the TCP/IP family? 5. Questions About the Domain Name System 5.1 What is the Domain Name System? 5.2 What is a Fully Qualified Domain Name? 6. Questions About Internet Documentation 6.1 What is an RFC? 6.2 How do I obtain RFCs? 6.3 How do I obtain a list of RFCs? 6.4 What is the RFC-INFO service? 6.5 Which RFCs are Standards? 6.6 What is an FYI? 6.7 What is an STD? 6.8 What is the Internet Monthly Report? 6.9 What is an Internet Draft? Are there any guidelines available for writing one? 6.10 How do I obtain OSI Standards documents? 7. Questions about Internet Organizations and Contacts 7.1 What is the IAB? 7.2 What is the IETF? 7.3 What is the IRTF? 7.4 What is the Internet Society? 7.5 What is the IANA? 7.6 What is a NIC? What is a NOC? 7.7 What is the InterNIC? 7.8 What is the DDN NIC (nic.ddn.mil)? 7.9 What is the IR? 8. Questions About Services 8.1 How do I find someone's electronic mail address? 8.3 How do I use the Knowbot Information Service? 8.4 What is the White Pages at PSI? 8.5 What is USENET? What is Netnews? 8.6 How do I get a Netnews feed? 8.7 What is a newsgroup? 8.8 How do I subscribe to a newsgroup? 8.9 What is anonymous FTP? 8.10 What is "archie"? 8.11 How do I connect to archie? 8.12 What is "gopher"? 8.13 What is the World Wide Web? What is Mosaic? 8.14 How do I find out about other Internet resource discovery tools? 8.15 What is "TELNET"? 9. Mailing Lists and Sending Mail 9.1 What is a mailing list? 9.2 How do I contact the administrator of a mailing list rather than posting to the entire list? 9.3 How do I send mail to other networks? 10. Miscellaneous "Internet lore" questions 10.1 What does :-) mean? 10.2 What do "btw", "fyi", "imho", "wrt", and "rtfm" mean? 10.3 What is the "FAQ" list? 11. Suggested Reading Krol, Ed. (1992) The Whole Internet User's Guide and Catalog, 400 p. O'Reilly and Assoc., Inc. Sebastopol, CA. Dern, Daniel P. (1993) The Internet Guide for New Users, 570 p. McGraw-Hill, Inc. New York, NY. Fisher, Sharon. (1993) Riding the Internet Highway, 266 p. New Riders Publishing, Carmel, IN. Frey, Donnalyn and Rick Adams. (1993) !%@:: A Directory of Electronic Mail Addressing and Networks, (third edition) 443 p. O'Reilly & Assoc., Inc. Sebastopol, CA. Hoffman, Ellen and Lenore Jackson. (1993) "FYI on Introducing the Internet: A Short Bibliography of Introductory Internetworking Readings for the Network Novice," 4 p. (FYI 19/RFC 1463). Kehoe, Brendan P. (1993) Zen and the Art of the Internet: A Beginner's Guide, (second edition) 112 p. Prentice Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ. LaQuey, Tracy with Jeanne C. Ryer. (1992) The Internet Companion: A Beginner's Guide to Global Networking, 208 p. Addison-Wesley, Reading, MA. Malkin, Gary, S. and Tracy LaQuey Parker. (1993) "Internet Users' Glossary," 53 p. (FYI 18/RFC 1392). Marine, April, et al. (1993) Internet: Getting Started, 360 p. Prentice Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ. Martin, Jerry. (1993) "There's Gold in them thar Networks! or Searching for Treasure in all the Wrong Places," 39 p. (FYI 10/RFC 1402). Quarterman, John. (1993) "Recent Internet Books," 15 p. (RFC 1432).   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa20000; 9 Apr 97 13:52 EDT Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa15133; 9 Apr 97 13:52 EDT Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:37:47 -0700 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:37:44 -0700 Received: from ux1.cso.uiuc.edu by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-26) id ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:37:43 -0700 Received: (from krol@localhost) by ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA17413 for uswg@isi.edu; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 12:37:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 12:37:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Ed Krol Message-Id: <199704091737.MAA17413@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> To: uswg@isi.edu Subject: Internet vs Web Sender: owner-uswg@isi.edu Precedence: bulk I guess we need to start educating at the top (this came from the Internet writers mailing list): > A couple of thoughts from today's WWW6 Conference in Santa Clara...what do > you think? > First of all, at this morning's keynote session, Thomas Kalil (senior > director to the National Economic Council) talked about the White House > Administration's commitment to giving people access to the Internet. The > only problem was, he didn't use the word "Internet." He used the word > "Web" (as if the 2 were the same thing.) He showed a slide that said that > the Adminstration plans to connect people with disabilities to the Web, to > connect every student to the Web, etc. Connecting people to the Web is > great...but what about giving them access to mailing lists where they can > participate in online support groups to help them cope with their > disabilities? Or giving them access to newsgroups where they can > collaborate on new projects and ideas? Or to protocols like Telnet and > FTP, which they can use to get access to a whole world of information? > I get kind of irritated with people using the words Web and Internet > interchangeably....they're not the same thing, and no one ever seems to > correct these folks. > On another note, kind of ironic that the theme of this conference centers > around accessibility. Try to find online access anywhere at the show...ha! > The press room was a joke....about half a dozen computers (none of them > connected to the Net), a pitcher of water, and one lone press person, > typing his story on his own laptop, which he would send off later in the > day, if he ever found an Internet connection. > I finally located a room that had a few computers with online access, but > after about 1/2 hour, I was asked by show staff to please give up the seat > because other people were waiting to use the computers. (I was about > halfway through filing a story at that moment....the computer wasn't > connected to a printer, so I couldn't make a hard copy, and my telnet > connection died at the same time, so I lost everything I was doing.) > So much for accessibility. > Linda > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Linda Engelman, Freelance Writer > , http://www.adworks.com > (Published in Internet World, Online Access, Web Publisher, iWORLD, etc.) > Author, "Interacting On The Internet" (Irwin, 1996) > Contributing Writer, "Microsoft Bookshelf Internet Directory 1996-97" > President, ADWORKS Copywriting & Creative Services   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa22061; 9 Apr 97 16:05 EDT Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa18126; 9 Apr 97 16:05 EDT Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 12:57:06 -0700 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 12:56:54 -0700 Received: from corinne.mac.edu ([205.212.82.80]) by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-26) id ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 12:56:47 -0700 Received: (qmail 3734 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Apr 1997 20:01:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 15:01:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "J. Joseph Max Katz" To: Ed Krol Cc: uswg@isi.edu Subject: Re: Internet vs Web In-Reply-To: <199704091737.MAA17413@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-uswg@isi.edu Precedence: bulk I hope to not get too political or too controversial with the following... Stepping back to be more cynical (and technologically elitist) we have to keep in mind that a vast majority of congress wouldn't know what a "graphical browser" (let alone Network Computer) was if it hit them on the head. However, that does not prevent them from debating over regulating what content should and shouldn't be on an international network. [Please direct CDA debate off the list, this is just an example of "lack of net knowledge(tm)."] The vast majority of the public (at least out here in the cornfields of the Midwest) think that "The Internet" is either some massive mainframe or solely a place for pedophiles to lurk while waiting for their children to "logon to the Internet." [I have multiple anecdotes to support the above generalization.] "Logon [login] to the Internet" is another fallicy in itself. Most people login to a provider who happens to be connected to the 'net. The offenders of this phrase are both legislators like Senator Exon and national advertisements by companies such as AOL. Unfortunatly it is up to no one but ourselves (those "in the know") to help keep straight the reality of what goes on along these strands of glass we call "The Internet." We cannot be whiners about it-- we must be friendly, helpful, and take a stand. On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Ed Krol wrote: :I guess we need to start educating at the top (this came from the :Internet writers mailing list): [delitia] -Jon MacMurray College Sophomore * OpenBSD Enthusiast * T. Sax -=+ Systems Administrator && Webmaster of corinne.mac.edu +=- jkatz@corinne.mac.edu * http://corinne.mac.edu * http://jon.katz.com root@corinne.mac.edu Custom systems and network design for businesses -=+*| P5/100 32M, Sparc IPC 12M, NeXT '040 Cube 20M, 586/133 12M |*+=-   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa08740; 10 Apr 97 4:24 EDT Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa05145; 10 Apr 97 4:24 EDT Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:15:56 -0700 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:15:54 -0700 Received: from sol.unizar.es by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-26) id ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 01:15:19 -0700 Received: by sol.unizar.es id AA26000 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for uswg@isi.edu); Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:13:13 +0200 From: Alejandro Rivero Message-Id: <199704100813.AA26000@sol.unizar.es> Subject: Re: Internet vs Web To: "J. Joseph Max Katz" Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:13:12 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu, uswg@isi.edu In-Reply-To: from "J. Joseph Max Katz" at Apr 9, 97 03:01:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1357 Sender: owner-uswg@isi.edu Precedence: bulk > keep in mind that a vast majority of congress wouldn't know what a > "graphical browser" (let alone Network Computer) was if it hit them on the > the Midwest) think that "The Internet" is either some massive mainframe or > solely a place for pedophiles to lurk while waiting for their children to > > "Logon [login] to the Internet" is another fallicy in itself. Most people > login to a provider who happens to be connected to the 'net. The offenders > On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Ed Krol wrote: > > :I guess we need to start educating at the top (this came from the > :Internet writers mailing list): > [delitia] > The only answer is to insist "in real life", even risking to be repetitive. Getting correct definitions on dictionaries and "rule books" will should be important. Here in Spain there are rumours telling that the Language Academy is going to define "web" and "internet". Also, to try to influence main journals would help (if such journals have a common rule book, as it happens with some spanish journals, which force its own "guia de estilo". The "writers guild" would do a important contribution to this normalization. (is this trend been forwaded to them?) Apart from this, some legal enforcement can be got from ISOC, I think they were doing the adequate registrations for "Internet" and perhaps other words. Yours, Alejandro.   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa16499; 18 Apr 97 5:24 EDT Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa06069; 18 Apr 97 5:24 EDT Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:01:35 -0700 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:01:23 -0700 Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-26) id ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:01:16 -0700 Received: from pow.ncl.ac.uk by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (8.7.6/ for ncl.ac.uk) with ESMTP; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:00:14 +0100 (BST) Received: (npjt1@localhost) by pow.ncl.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.x-cf revision 3 for Solaris 2.x) id JAA09118; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:59:57 +0100 (BST) From: Peter Taylor Message-Id: <199704180859.JAA09118@pow.ncl.ac.uk> Subject: IETF 38 Trip Report To: ucs-all@newcastle.ac.uk, uk-mail-managers@newcastle.ac.uk, web-support@mailbase.ac.uk, lis-elib@mailbase.ac.uk, lis-link@mailbase.ac.uk, lis-elib-tech@mailbase.ac.uk, wg-isus@terena.nl, uswg@isi.edu Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:59:57 +0100 (BST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-uswg@isi.edu Precedence: bulk Apologies if you receive this message more than once: Our trip report from the 38th meeting of the IETF (Internet Engineering Task Force) which was held in Memphis, Tennessee from 7-11 April is now available from: http://www.netskills.ac.uk/ietf/ietf-38.html Previous trip reports are also available from: http://www.netskills.ac.uk/ietf/ Please forward this information to anyone who may be interested. Please feel free to contact us with any comments you may have. Regards, Donal Hanna - Newcastle University - Netskills Programmer Peter Taylor - Newcastle University - Mailbase Postmaster   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa13416; 22 Apr 97 17:30 EDT Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa21292; 22 Apr 97 17:30 EDT Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:20:49 -0700 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:20:43 -0700 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-26) id ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:20:42 -0700 Received: from akamai.isi.edu (akamai-a.isi.edu) by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:20:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:24:24 -0700 From: jkrey@isi.edu Posted-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:24:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199704222124.AA05962@akamai.isi.edu> Received: by akamai.isi.edu (5.65c/4.0.3-6) id ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:24:24 -0700 To: uswg@isi.edu Subject: User Services Area Report - Memphis IETF Cc: jkrey@isi.edu Sender: owner-uswg@isi.edu Precedence: bulk IETF User Services Area Report Memphis, Tennessee Joyce K. Reynolds (USAD) Seven active working groups and one BOF were held in the User Services Area (USV) of the IETF in Memphis, Tennessee. ========================================================================= Humanities and Arts WG (HARTS) session chaired by Scott Stoner and Janet Max. This HARTS session focused on the final review of the Internet-Draft, draft-ietf-harts-guide-01.txt, "Humanities and Arts: Sharing Center Stage on the Internet". The attendees reviewed each section of the document, and identified any gaps or omissions. Janet Max will update this draft, with the drop deadline of May 30. After that date, a new version will be posted as an updated I-D in the Internet-Drafts repository. The HARTS group will have a final review before the document is sent to the IESG for approval. This group will be shut down before the Munich IETF in August. ========================================================================= Internet School Networking (ISN) session chaired by Jodi Ito and Sepi Boroumand. Reported by Sepi Boroumand. The ISN Working Group was convened at 3:00 p.m. by Jodi Ito and Sepideh Boroumand, cochairs. The redesign of the ISN webpage was discussed with input and suggestions on the necessary changes. A possible draft titled "Common pitfalls for K-12 General Community" was discussed with input and suggestions for bullets and content of the document. Meeting was adjourned at 4 p.m. ========================================================================= ISN2 BOF session chaired by Jodi Ito and Sepi Boroumand. Reported by Sepi Boroumand. The ISN II BOF was convened at 7:30 p.m. by Jodi Ito and Sepideh Boroumand, cochairs. The invitees to this meeting are usually educators from area schools. The discussions made earlier in the day on the redesign of the web site and the possible document titled "Common Pitfalls for the K-12 General Community" was reviewed by the evening's attendees. The attendees made suggestions for additional input into the documents. Also, possible ways for reaching the K-12 community was discussed. As well as whether ISN is on the right track for developing documents for the K-12 community. Meeting adjourned at 9:15 p.m. ========================================================================= Responsible Use of the Network (RUN), chaired by Sally Hambridge and Gary Malkin. Reported by Gary Malkin. The RUN working group met for a 1-hour session. The primary topic discussed was the review of the "Don't Spew" Internet Draft. There were several suggested changes, primarily the title. There was an argument whether or not we should use "Spam" or "Spew." It was pointed out that "spew" had another, well known meaning, and that "spam" had a similarly well-known meaning. The concern is over copyright and defamation over "Spam" the Hormel product. Joyce Reynolds will discuss this issue with Scott Bradner. The group also started discussion about a companion document about how to advertise on the Internet in the proper ways. Logically, these two documents belong together, but the time pressure to get out the first document is too great. One alternative to creating a new document is to re-release the Spew/Spam document with the advertising material. We hope to have an Internet Draft ready by the Munich meeting. ========================================================================= Site Security Handbook WG (SSH), chaired by Barbara Fraser. Reported by Barbara Fraser. The SSH working group met once during this IETF. The first half hour was spent discussing the last few points concerning the SSH draft. It was decided once and for all that the annotated bibliography will be pulled out of the document and published as a separate informational RFC. Barbara will produce a last and final draft by May 15. The list will be able to review it for a sanity check for 1 week after which it will be sent to Joyce to submit for a last call. The rest of the meeting was spent discussing the latest draft of the USH (User security handbook). Two new drafts will be created between now and the next IETF. We should complete all work sometime shortly after the Munich IETF meeting. ========================================================================= User Services Working Group (USWG) chaired by Joyce K. Reynolds. A report on IETF User Services Area activities was presented by Joyce Reynolds, which included news on related USV Area FYI RFC publications and current Internet-Drafts since the last IETF. Reports on related global liaison group activities and international conferences were reported. They included Tom Newell and Susan Calcari providing updates of InterNIC and NetScout activities, the TERENA/IETF ETINU joint working group endeavor, the upcoming JENC8/TERENA ISUS meetings in May 1997, and the INET97 User Track final program. The rest of the session focused on the USWG's document update project of FYI 4, RFC 1594 ("FYI on Questions and Answers: Answers to Commonly asked "New Internet User" Questions"). This was lead by Jodi Ito and Sepi Boroumand, with additional assistance by Tom Newell. ========================================================================= Guide for Internet Standards Writer WG (STDGuide) This WG is a combined endeavor of the USV and OPS Areas of the IETF. Their summary report has been filed with the OPS Area Report. ========================================================================= Integrated Directory Services WG (IDS) This WG is a combined endeavor of the USV and APPS Areas of the IETF. Their summary report has been filed with the APPS Area Report. =========================================================================   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa13457; 22 Apr 97 17:32 EDT Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa21329; 22 Apr 97 17:32 EDT Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:18:20 -0700 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:18:17 -0700 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-26) id ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:18:16 -0700 Received: from akamai.isi.edu (akamai-a.isi.edu) by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:18:15 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:21:57 -0700 From: jkrey@isi.edu Posted-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:21:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199704222121.AA05946@akamai.isi.edu> Received: by akamai.isi.edu (5.65c/4.0.3-6) id ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:21:57 -0700 To: uswg@isi.edu, minutes@ietf.org Subject: USWG Minutes - Memphis IETF Cc: jkrey@isi.edu Sender: owner-uswg@isi.edu Precedence: bulk User Services Working Group Minutes IETF - Memphis, Tennessee Monday, April 7th, 1300-1500 Chair: Joyce K. Reynolds/ISI (jkrey@isi.edu) Subscription/Unsubscription requests for the USWG email list should be sent to uswg-request@isi.edu. First on the agenda was a report on IETF User Services Area activities. The following working groups and one BOF in the USV Area met at this IETF: HARTS, ISN, ISNII BOF, RUN, SSH, IDS, STDGUIDE, and USWG. The related USV Area I-Ds and FYI RFCs include: draft-ietf-run-spew-00.txt draft-ietf-harts-guide-01.txt draft-ietf-ssh-handbook-04.txt draft-ietf-ssh-overview-00.txt draft-ietf-ssh-users-00.txt draft-ietf-stdguide-ops-02.txt RFCs-to-be (approved by IESG, currently in RFC-ED queue for publication): RFC-IDS-x500-IMPS RFC-IDS-ROOT-NAMING Next on the agenda were the reports on related global liaison group activities and international conferences The InterNIC report was provided by Tom Newell and Susan Calcari. Tom Newell () presented an update to his InterNIC endeavors. Patrick Crispen's ROADMAP96 is now available on the web from the InterNIC. This Internet workshop has been extremely successful, and the InterNIC is pleased to facilitate the distribution of this popular tool for beginners. The InterNIC project called, the 15 Minute series is also proving itself successfully. This series offers tools for the Internet trainer that are modular, extensible, "15 minute" sessions on Internet-related topics. Tom is currently working on the monthly InterNIC Electronic Newsletter. The next installment will have an article and sidebars on the IETF, what's new that is currently going on, including the user services area. Tom is also working with Joyce on updating the User Services Area's web pages that are being housed at the InterNIC, along with links to the IETF web pages. Susan Calcari () provided a report on NetScout. NetScout is associated with the University of Wisconsin, with a staff of 7, including folks that work on the net-happenings mailing list. The Scout Toolkit was updated with a target to meeting an expressed need from a focus group for additional summary and analysis information about the scout tools. As noted at the last USWG session in San Jose, cheat sheets for the major search engines and directories have been created as handouts when providing training. These are not being distributed as hardcopy, but there are PostScript and Adobe pdf format available from the NetScout web page. The KIDS newsletter that is being produced is successful. It is a newsletter on the Internet by kids for kids. The publication target is every two weeks, with four schools working on it (two in Madison, WI and two in Boulder, CO). The TERENA/IETF ETINU report was presented next. TERENA is the Trans-European Research and Education Network Association. The TERENA web page is located at http://www.terena.nl/ A newly formed group, called ETINU, is the "Environment To Inspire Network Users". It is a joint effort of the TERENA Information Services and User Support (ISUS) and the IETF User Services Area. Its charter and focus is in developing a system to deliver enhanced user support via the network. Some of the objectives include: o prioritise main issues related to user support today, including: helpdesk queries, FAQs, software updates, hardware fault reporting, documentation, online training o discuss the pros and cons of online support as opposed to conventional methods o collate experiences of help desk software o collect references to relevant papers, articles, web sites, etc. and link them from a task force home page o identify and evaluate any available online support systems o identify the features of an ideal online support system o build a pilot online support service which could act as a model for many sites o standardise appropriate elements of the pilot system via RFC process The leaders of this effort believe we should be supporting, inspiring, and encouraging the user to make fuller use of the network to overcome their difficulties AND also help others when possible. To join, send an email message to: mailserver@terena.nl containing the text: subscribe tf-etinu 'your real name' replacing 'your real name' as appropriate. An update on TERENA's ETINU Task Force activities were reported by Christine Cahoon () to Joyce Reynolds via email the day after the USWG session. It is recorded here for the USWG's information and comment. In January at the UK UCTLIG (Universities and Colleges Teaching Learning and Information Group) Workshop, "Technology to help Advisors", at Bradford University, I gave a presentation on ETINU. See: http://boris.qub.ac.uk/christine/etinu0197.ppt The amount of positive feedback was very encouraging. It also helped identify other systems for evaluation, such as Lotus Notes using a Domino web server. It's commercial, but it looks very good and comprehensive. Following the January workshop we submitted a paper to JENC8 and it was accepted. Also, we have just heard that the paper has been accepted for INET97 as well. See: http://www.terena.nl/jenc8/ Progressing Work I feel that, generally, Computing Services staff are reluctant to get too involved in developing a system because they are mostly under resourced, stressed, and/or ill-managed. They prefer 'easy' solutions. To 'get the best' from the ETINU list, we're planning to create a simple online questionnaire containing brief snappy questions about the issues below. This will at least give us some 'real' evidence regarding what the consensus out there is on 'advanced user support'. o respondent's role within organisation o software used o procedures used o perceived need for change in current working practice o is change needed in adopted technologies, people management or both o reaction to an online support system o importance attached to developing a standard way of providing online support o providing keywords that summarise most important requirements of user support today More can be added -- will try and make it a point and click business except for the keywords which should be freetext. Hopefully we can spread it beyond the current ETINU list to increase the sample to several hundred. We believe the results will be very relevant to USWG and TERENA ISUS. The last report was on INET97, the Internet Society's (ISOC) annual conference that will be held in June 1997 in Malaysia. There is a "User Track", with Mark Prior (Australia) and Joyce K. Reynolds (USA) as the co-track leaders. The User Track final sessions for INET97 include: o Disabilities o Using Technology o Electronic Publishing o Network Information Retrieval o Community Networking o Impact of the Internet o Disabilities Panel There will also be a K12 INET session before the actual INET conference. Discussion and attendee participation focussed on the final topic in USWG's the agenda - updating FYI 4, RFC 1594 ("FYI on Questions and Answers: Answers to Commonly asked "New Internet User" Questions"). This was led by Jodi Ito and Sepi Boroumand, with additional assistance by Tom Newell. The group went through the exercise of defining, who is the audience now? The notion of being creative with new questions, feel free to take out old questions and restructure the document FYI 4 was agreed on by the participants. An new outline was developed as the group went through the original table of contents: Questions about the Internet. This includes, What is the Internet? (not a BBS,AOL, Microsoft, Web), Internet goverence - top level domains?, Internet registries, How do I find out if a site has a computer on the Internet?, and How do I get a list of all the hosts on the Internet? How does it work? This includes, What is TCP/IP?, What is HTTP? (vs. HTTPS), What are other well-known protocols?, What is a URL?, What is DNS?, and What is a Fully Qualified Domain Name? What can I do? This includes, What is the Wold-wide Web? (netscape and other browsers), How do I create my own web page/server?, What is TELNET?, What is (anonymous) FTP?, What is USENET news?, What is gopher?, What is CHAT?, What is MUD/MOO?, What is email?, How do I find someone's email address?, How do I find xxx web page?, and How do I make money on the Internet? What if it doesn't work? This includes, email, web page, ftp, and gopher. What about security and privacy on the Internet? This includes, TRUST NO ONE!, What am I at risk for?, firewalls, proxy servers?, certificates, PGP, cookies, public key, viruses, electronic commerce, and implications when using company email - personal vs. private opinion. How do I find out more? This includes, What is an RFC?, How do I obtain RFCs?, How do I obtain a list of RFCs?, What is the RFC-INFO service?, Which RFCs are Standards?, What is an FYI?, What is an STD?, What is the Internet Monthly Report?, What is an Internet Draft? Are there any guidelines available for writing one?, How do I obtain OSI Standards documents?, What is the IAB?, What is the IETF?, What is the IRTF?, What is the Internet Society?, What is the IANA, What is a NIC? What is a NOC?, What is the InterNIC? What is the DDN NIC (nic.ddn.mil)?, and What is the IR? Other subjects of interest to develop are, Kids on the Internet - is it safe?, Is it true what I heard...? (Internet urban legends). Rounding out the document will be a References section and a Glossary.   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa12329; 24 Apr 97 14:43 EDT Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa17723; 24 Apr 97 14:43 EDT Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:04:56 -0700 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:04:55 -0700 Received: from igw3.watson.ibm.com by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-26) id ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:04:55 -0700 Received: from mailhub1.watson.ibm.com (mailhub1.watson.ibm.com [9.2.249.31]) by igw3.watson.ibm.com (8.7.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA12634 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:55:08 -0400 From: STIBLER@watson.ibm.com Received: from yktvmv.watson.ibm.com (yktvmv.watson.ibm.com [9.117.33.29]) by mailhub1.watson.ibm.com (8.8.2/01-15-97) with SMTP id MAA51704 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:04:51 -0400 Message-Id: <199704241604.MAA51704@mailhub1.watson.ibm.com> Received: from YKTVMV by yktvmv.watson.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with BSMTP id 7529; Thu, 24 Apr 97 12:04:48 EDT Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 11:49:24 EDT To: uswg@isi.edu Subject: FYI 4 Sender: owner-uswg@isi.edu Precedence: bulk I am sorry I missed the discussion of FYI 4 at the Memphis IETF. I hope to contribute more as the rewrite progresses. (Will updates be posted to this list?) Reading the minutes, I was not sure as to what is supposed to stay vs. being dropped from the next version. What was the decision as to the target audience? I would like to see a document aimed at the novice user. ("I just got a computer, what do I do now?") If this is the audience, sections 6 and 7 of the existing document may not really fit. I think they have good info, but I don't think the new user is really going to be that concerned about Internet Organizations and Internet RFC's (drafts etc.). These either belong in their own documents or perhaps an "Intermediate/Advanced" user document (referenced by FYI 4). I think we want to avoid overwhelming the reader. For this same reason, it might be appropriate to reduce the number of entries in FYI 4's existing glossary. On the subject of "child safety". It might be appropriate to provide pointers to sites which place an emphasis on providing quality content for children. (Not to document all such sites, but to provide a few examples of what exists.) Stephen Stibler   Received: from cnri by ietf.org id aa22978; 24 Apr 97 18:16 EDT Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa22726; 24 Apr 97 18:16 EDT Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:04:57 -0700 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-23) id ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:04:55 -0700 Received: from atlas.xylogics.com by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-26) id ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:04:54 -0700 Received: from huey.xylogics.com (huey.xylogics.com [132.245.32.139]) by atlas.xylogics.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA08933; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by huey.xylogics.com id AA29551 (4.1/UK-doug-951219); Thu, 24 Apr 97 18:02:47 EDT From: Gary Scott Malkin Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 18:02:47 EDT Message-Id: <29551.9704242202@huey.xylogics.com> To: STIBLER@watson.ibm.com Cc: uswg@isi.edu In-Reply-To: <199704241604.MAA51704@mailhub1.watson.ibm.com> (STIBLER@watson.ibm.com) Subject: Re: FYI 4 Sender: owner-uswg@isi.edu Precedence: bulk The target audience for FYI 4 is users who are new to the Internet, but are already connected. This is the same as it was originally. We did decide to pare down the glossary to only those terms used in the document itself.